Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 893: A $6 Million Marlin, Fake AI Wildlife News, and Killing a Colorado Wolf

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Ep. 893: A $6 Million Marlin, Fake AI Wildlife News, and Killing a Colorado Wolf · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the news show. This week, We've got a
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: lake access dispute Wisconsin that you really need to pay
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: attention to. We got a new word neo native, that
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: you really need to learn. A ranch hand, and Colorado
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: kills a wolf and that needs to be Okay, Seth
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: catches a nine hundred and nineteen point nine pound blue marlin,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: or at least he'll tell you about one. AI is
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: being used to make up and push fake wildlife news.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Randall digs into an ELK scandal as well as some
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: ELK bs and more. But first, we never do this, yeah,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: from the newspile, from the paper newspile. It's nice, oh,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: mixing it up.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: It's like old school.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Why I never read the mail that comes in the mail.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut this one short. This guy, he's a kid,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: he's thirteen, he said, but not to my main point.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But not at my main point. I would love for
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: you guys to do your best at not cussing on air.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I really don't enjoy going to bed with Steve's son
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: of a bleep and Randall's mother bleep in my head.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, I wasn't on the list.
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: That makes me Happy'll someday I appreciate it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: He says, every time you swear, you should put one
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars and donate it to a college bass fishing team.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Oh that's a good idea. That is a good idea.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Piper Nicholson wrote, He's a little kid. You tell why
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I was writing. He wrote this nice letter. I mainly
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: took note of the envelope. It says, PS. I named
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Apossum after you, Steve. So thank you very much to
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Piper Nicholson. Oh, our punt vun our punt gun video
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: is finally coming out. Years ago we bought a punt
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: gun add auction for twenty thousand dollars. You're probably sticking
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: here and talk about the damn punk gun. It just
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: took us a bunch of the dang dand gurn punk gun. Sorry, sorry,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: let's take his name as what's his name?
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: I think it's Asa Asa Yeah, sorry, asah my cursive.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: It took us forever to make the punt gun video.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Just it's very complicated. We explain why it took so
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: long in our punt gun video, which is out like now,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: ish soon play a clip, Phil.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, sure, let's load it up.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: So here this shows the punk gun. There's a swear word.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Got This is.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: The part of the punt gun video when we shoot
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: water melons. That's the punt gun cocking and that's the
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: punk gun going off, and that's the watermelons blowing up.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Ah La Gallagher. So tune it out. There's a we
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: shoot all kinds of stuff in the punt gun video.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I think you're gonna love it. Uh, Brody got a
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: truck camper and he's got something to say about that.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I gotta. I posted a picture on Instagram.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I saw that picture.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So you know people are doing this a lot
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: these days, getting those like fold up truck top camper thing. Listen,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: they're not I got a real but I'm yeah, I'm
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: getting called a Bozeman hipster forgetting one of those things.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: For years, I just slept on a sleeping pad under
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: a regular topper. I got old and uncomfortable.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It's not uncomfortable. My wife does that. She's not out
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: there trying to prove anything.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: I just look, I just wanted it, like I had
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: a actually good reason for getting it. That's because if
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: we want to take the if we're going to camp
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: and take the boat with us, we would have to
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: take two rigs because we have a pop up camper
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: and a boat. Understood, Now, we can take one rig
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: in the boat and go camp.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: It's a cost saving thing. I'm just joking. I don't
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: think anything different of you.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think these people don't really understand what
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: hipsters are. I don't think hipsters well.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Are like That's why he said Bozeman hipster.
• 4:08
  Speaker 6: In fairness, they'd have.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Like a refurbished airstream or some ship like that.
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: Sorry, in fairness to them.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: Spencer Spencer Newhart is the primary advocate of truck top
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: campers in this He was.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: And I used to make fun of him.
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: Does he have one and he's ever made?
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: No, I'm looking forward to using that thing during deer season.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: I've been thinking about getting one of Ali Baba once.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: It's like it's like the same same thing you bought
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: it here, but like in the price, oh from that
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: like whatever that website?
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand? Uh? From here? Fourth here?
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: Ye, hear ye?
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: From here? Fourth at first Light. First Light has a
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: new Camel for Conservation program. When you buy camo any
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: kind of camel clothes at first Light, a percent one
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: percent of that sale price goes directly to our conservation partners. Okay, uh,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: straight up, when you buy camel at First Light, one
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: percent to our conservation partners. The program is called Camel
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: for Conservation. So check that out too. You see the
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: new Custer's Last Stand shirt.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: I like it. I like the color, very colorful, very.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pots man. So you know when you're taking a wig.
• 5:24
  Speaker 7: Got him in the heart, huh Yeah, when you're taking
• 5:27
  Speaker 7: a whiz in the bathroom, you're looking at the here
• 5:30
  Speaker 7: fell Custer, and Custer's kind of like hunkered, like he's
• 5:34
  Speaker 7: sort of on the hands and knees dying.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: But down the hill there's a guy dying like this.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, can you fool your laptop down so we can
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: the audience go.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So Custer's kind of dying in the lame way
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: in that painting. So when we wanted to do a
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: good Custer's Last Stand shirt, we we had the guy
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: down the hill bey Custer and modeled uh, just kind
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of more zippy, you know, like his gun's going off.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: About flowing hair. You don't know this, he didn't have that.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: He got a cup for the campaign in that shirt. Yeah,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: died short, short hair and he wasn't wearing the regulation hat,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and his wife, Libby Custer, had a wig made with
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the hair he got cut off and wore it around.
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Sydney's going to do that.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: My wife wouldn't be able to do that either.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, here's the deal. I said, there's a word neo
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: natives need to know. So Guy wrote in I'm a
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: PhD student in the Department of College, Department of Ecology
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and Conservation Biology at Texas A and M University. He's
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: currently studying invasive species management in the Great Plains. Okay,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: he's looking at all ed diet and their impact on
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: the Chiuahuan Desert ecosystem. That's him establishing his bona fides.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: In the most recent episode, number eight ninety, concerning meal
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: deer in Alaska, Steve remarked that he wasn't sure whether
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: invasive was really an appropriate term for the mules in
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: this situation. He says he would have to agree with me,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and he put an exclamation point there. He says, in fact,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: there's a new term for the expansion of native species
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: ranges into previously unoccupied areas. This new term is a
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: neo native for those taxa that have expanded geographically beyond
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: their native range, and that now have established populations whose
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: presence is due to human induced changes in the biophysical environment,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: but not direct movement. Not direct movement. That's the perfect word.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I see. When I was complaining about there not being
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: a word for it, I didn't even think that you'd
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: go make one up.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: It's great. And he does say like human influence like canals, roads, pipelines, tunnels,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Like we talked about neonative.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: It wasn't moved, but we did something that like created
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: the situation.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: We would be another neo native.
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: Well them of woody plants onto the great planes due
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: to insufficient grazing practice.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, yep, kyles for sure, Kyles for sure.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: White tails all white tails.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, white tails are neo natives and all kinds of
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: new places. Yeah, it's a great term. I'm start using
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: it all the time.
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: Fantastic.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Whoever that guy was, Daniel, Thanks buddy.
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: This next letter, next next email, I should say, uh
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: is something that we heard from a lot of folks,
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: and this is about the Big Oaks National Wildlife Refuge
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: in Madison, Indiana. He writes, this refuge has an amazing
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: history of once being a testing range for Army munitions.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: To recreate here, you must attend an annual class about
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: the dangers of unexploded ordinances. In the refuge, it's open
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: to hunting. Turkey and deer. Opportunities are available through the
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: d NR's Reserved Hunt program, which is basically a draw
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: small game huntings open on a portion of the refuge.
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: The Fish and Wildlife Service has had an agreement with
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: the Army to continue it's hunting program, but they're considering
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: changes to the agreement due to budget problems. And he's saying,
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: is it expensive to let dudes hunt? Well, I think
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: it has to do with staffing. They had a big
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: rally in Madison about the possible closer of the refuge.
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: There's an online petition that you can sign, and this
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: guy's telling folks to write to their right to their
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: senators and voice support for big oaks n w R funding.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: That's funny because I don't think there's a day that
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: goes by that there's not a rally in Madison. But
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the fact that there's a pro hunting rally in Madison
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: catches me by surprise.
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: Madison, Indiana, Madison still a good thing.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I meant to Madison where you'd always have a rally.
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so they it's fit. It's fifty thousand, that there's
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: six thousand hunters annually that take advantage of this, and
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: essentially they The refuge manager retired last year following rob
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: Following this guy's retirement, refuge staff were cut from five
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: employees to a single off site manager. And then last
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: month there was a notification that it was going to
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: consider uh severing the MoU with the army, which would
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: close the refuge altogether. So again, this is one of
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: those opportunities where if you don't speak up, no one
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: else is going to. And yeah, I mean there's not
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: a ton of like in the Midwest. Any any acre
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: of public land is immensely valuable. We kind of take
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: it for granted out here living in Montana, but Indiana
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: can't afford to lose fifty thousand acres of public land.
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: So it's a choice.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Heard, did you mention the part about him here in Turkey?
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: Shot Goblin to a ten.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: No.
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: No, no, I was trying to get to the I
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: was trying to get.
• 11:02
  Speaker 6: To the called action, he says.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Ye, but I would never leave out the good parts
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: just for that.
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: It was an oversight.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: A small interior portion of the refuge is closed the
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: hunting because the Indiana National Guard uses it as an
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: air to surface test range. I can personally attest to
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: Turkey's shock gobbling to a ten warthog guns. That would
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: be that would be very interesting. Yeah, make your voice.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Heard, all right, Lakers and Barrow trauma. We did that
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: little piece on the the many state record Lakers coming
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: out of Minnesota from one fishing guide like a week
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: or two back. Had someone right in an episode eighty seven,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: you folks talked about the guy out of two harbors.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: I follow this charter on Facebook and see all the
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: bunkers he I think he meant lunkers he pulls out
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: of the depths and it is extremely impressive. His question
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: is about survival rates of a fish of that size
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: being pulled out of thirty nine degree water from eighty
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: ninety one hundred plus feet deep. He understands the fish
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: is being pulled up through the water. Call him slower
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: than trolling, but he's still got concerns about like how
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: the fish would handle it. Do you have any thoughts
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: or answers to the concerns of fish fatality? If you
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: go on Facebook, you'll see a mix of wow, huge
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: and nice you killed it by throwing it back. I
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: did a little research for you, and it turns out
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: that lakers and all salmon it's like trout char whatever
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: in the trout salmon char family, they're all less susceptible
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: to barrow trauma. Gott to pull this stuff up. They're
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: they're called physostomas fish. This means they possess a specialized
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: pneumatic duck that connects their swim bladder to their digestic digestive,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: which allows them to burp out excess expanding gas barrow trauma.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: You'll see them. Their guts are all blown up, their
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: eyes are sticking out of their head. It's pretty gruesome.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: So this means that lakers deal with it coming up,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: and it also means they if they do get get it,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: they deal with it better going back down. But if
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: the fish is reeled up too rapidly they can get it.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: They can't expel that gas fast enough to keep up
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: with the barrow trauma, and this can create severe pressure
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: on their organs and cause internal bleeding. Some studies show
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: twenty to mortality can occur when lake trout are brought
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: up very fast from extremely deep water. But like, we
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: hope those kings in two hundred feet of water when
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: we're halibit fishing and they.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: Come up fine, you know, they like run to the
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: surface they themselves.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, before you even know you got him on
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: and he's already jumping out in front of the boat.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: He look a salmon.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: You have a bunch of slack lines.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: You're you're like a night break off.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: What happened, Physicistomas, They got they got a little duct
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: and there's swim bladder. It helps with that.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, here here, here's some news. I found this and
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: I did additional digging on this, but I was made
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: aware of this in Wall Street Journal. But I but
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: this story is a story that pops up down there
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: because it has to do with some with some particulars
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: about the state of Wisconsin's water access rules. This story
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: involves a dude, a dog walker that lives in a
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: suburb of Milwaukee, and his name is Paul Floorsheim. Okay,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: there's an old man's shoe company, floor shym Shoes, And
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I was like, why was I reading about floor shym
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: shoes recently? Well, it turns out also reported in the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal. This is a little wrinkle. This is
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: like a news wormhole. A couple of months ago, reporting
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal is that Trump has taken a
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: shine oh yeah, to floor Shine Shoes, taking a shine
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to him. That's like a pun. He's taking a shine
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: to floor Shine Shoes. Did you know this, Yes, to
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the point where he likes to do a thing where
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: people will come and he likes to look and try
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: to guess their.
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: Shoe size and then give them shoes.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: So that he can give them floor shin shoes. Here's
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: where the wrinkle gets even deeper. You think of him
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: normally as somewhat vindictive, right, Like, he keeps in mind
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: who's slighted him, and he wants to come back around
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and get him. Floor Shine Shoes is suing to get
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: back their twenty million dollars in illegal import duties that
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: they were. Oh, the Supreme Court struck down the illegal
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: duties and you could get your money back. Floorsheim wanted
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: their twenty two million dollars back. They're also very shoes.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with the story. This is
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: just an added little wrinkle. It says that he gets
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: a kick out of guests in people's shoes in a court.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: And there's a rumor that he said, I think in
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: a conversation with Vance and Rubio, he said, I can
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: tell a lot about a man by the size of
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: his shoes. Play at Phil Star of cowboy boots coming up?
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: What science size twelve double?
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: What big seat? Well you know what they say, No,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: what big feet, big boots? There you go. I knew
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I heard that somewhere. There's from Peewey's playoffs. So back
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to the story. Here's what's going on in Wisconsin. You
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: got this Floorshim gentleman. He's Paul Floorsheim, grandson of the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: founder of Floorshim Shoes. This has nothing to do with anything,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with anything. He lives a lot near
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: the lake and for fifty years, this gentleman has walked
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: his dogs up and down the beach of Lake Michigan.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: This is not like a local little pond of Lake Michigan.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: He has walked up and down the beach. Well, and
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry to report to you, Dennis out there, but
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: this involves a dentist. A dentist really gets to wear
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: This is driving him nuts because he owns a property
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: on Lake Michigan. Again, this is Lake Michigan.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this can't be the only guy walking around on him.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: But this guy, this dentist, gets a real case of
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: the ass about this. His name's Daniel Domagala. Fifty feet
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: from the water's edge. He has a tiki hut, like
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: a Jimmy Buffett looking tiki hut.
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: Nice.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It puts off major Jimmy Buffett vibes, except for the
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: giant keep outside. It's like he's he like he's got
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: like like you can picture. Buffet is never going to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: write a song about keeping people off the beach off
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it would be so
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Unbuffet like. But this guy's got a little Jimmy Buffett
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: tiki hut. And in there he's got alarms that when
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: people come on the beach he blasts them with alarms
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: to drive them away.
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: In one summer last summer, the dentist Do mcgawa called,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: by his own admission, and one summer he called the
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: cops fifty times to complain about people walking down the
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Lake Michigan shoreline. Now, in Michigan and in most places,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: when you imagine in the shoreline of a lake it's
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: a legal definition. It's like it's the shoreline is from
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the average low water line to the average high water line.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: And you'll even see in legal definitions, even from the
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court, even pointing out there's like a debris line
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: where seaweed collects, a line where you can visually see
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the impact of waves.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Like if you're walking in wet sand, you're good.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, because you're seeing the impact of waves. It's just
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: defined to define. But in Wisconsin years ago, back in
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: nineteen twenty three, a guy that was water and cattle
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: in Lake Winnebago got in a dispute with a guy
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: that was walking down the lake and somehow, out of
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: this cattle argument came this idea that Wisconsin doesn't accept
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: average high water average low water and Wisconsin, you gotta
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: be in the water because they pegged it to navigation
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and you're not doing navigation out of the water. And
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: usually it's okay. But because this dentist having a conniption
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: all the time, the cops finally came out and they're like,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I gotta give you a ticket. This guy won't stop
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: calling on you. He takes it to village court. Okay,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: he goes to village court and the judge says, my
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: hands are bound because of this. I'm trying to think
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: because of Domal v. Jance.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: He's stilling the floorshine guy. His hands are tired, the judge.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: The judge says, I gotta make you guilty.
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I have to make you guilty because I'm bound by
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Domal v. Chance, which is a nineteen twenty three Supreme
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Court of Wisconsin finding about this dispute between a guy
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: watering cattle in Lake Winnebago and a guy on the shoreline,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: an access dispute. But the judge holds out. I don't know.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's time that gets overturned because we're out of
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: step with other states.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: That's interesting.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: So Floorsheim is appealing this.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: I saw a quote from this said he ain't like.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: He ain't taking this quietly.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: No, he u'nbagging down. I'm bagging down. What's funny is
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: they sent a photographer out to take a photograph of him,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: and for the photograph he's standing out and angle deep water.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: But he's standing out in front. I noted that he's
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: standing out in front of the Jimmy Buffett tiki and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: ankle deep water for the articles. So then that guy's
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: probably in there just praying. Then he walks up on
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the sand, you know. Uh, so that that's going on,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: and this is like, this has major implications because think
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: about the length of shoreline. We're talking about Wisconsin's Lake
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Michigan shoreline, and what's happening here is people are building
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: seas and other obstructions to make it that like, to
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: force it that you'd have to go around up on
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the beach. But then saying, hey, you can't go up
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: on the beach. I just can't believe.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: This.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: The dentist is saying, he's equating it to a home invasion.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: He's like, if someone comes in your house, what are
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: you gonna do? Because this old timer is walking along
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the beach and got out of the water. So there's
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: two things. There's the legal of it all, and I
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: love it that he's I love it that he's appealing this.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: There's the legal of it all, and there's also just
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the like when you wake up in the morning, man, like,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: what kind of dude do you want to be that day?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Do you want to call the cops fifty times? Because
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: there's an old man walking not with his toes in
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: the water down the beach.
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, if that guy was like walking down the
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: beach and his dog was taking a crap right by
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: the Tiki.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Day and you know his dogs are leashed.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying like, if he had a good he
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: doesn't have a good reason.
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: So when when Florsheim argued his case, he argued on
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the public trust doctrine, m okay, he said, because of
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: public trust doctrine and these other court cases like that
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: established that that like duck hunters could duck hunt out
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: in front of private property, all this historical stuff. But
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: again it was thrown out because this had gone to
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin State Supreme Court. So maybe he'll get it overturned.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: There's also old legal stuff from the admission of the
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: state of the admission of Wisconsin into the state, and
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: that has said anything that flows into the Mississippi or
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: the Saint Lawrence it should be open to navigation, but
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: points out because you had to do portaging. It has
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: language that basically says and the walk king routes because
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: of course you had the portage.
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: So it's a really.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Confused legal picture. I wish the guy look that's the
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: end of my news story.
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: It does look like a nice tiki hut. Yeah, really nice.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: It's a great place to sit for yourself.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: And margarite and a yell at old man, he's not
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: representative of the island mindset.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And yello at old man walking along.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: All right, we're going back to the Colorado Wolf Desk.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: We haven't been there in a while. This just came
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: out recently that the actually incident happened in March. But
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: a ranch ham working at the Nottingham Ranch in western
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Colorado shot and killed a female gray wolf from the
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: King Mountain pack. That happened on March tenth, and it
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: turns out she was like the matriarch of a pack.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: They had.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: They had pupps last year. The mate had died during
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: a collaring operation just a couple of months before the female.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: The female died, so these pups are now like without
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: their their parents, their leaders. So you know, people are
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: on top of it.
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: The ranch hand and the ranch manager came forward and
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: and like they weren't trying to cover this up, but
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: the details that where it gets kind of weird, as
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: the way they described is the wolf was like threatening
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: cows they run eleven cattle on this ranch. It's like
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: it's a cow calf operation. And according to the ranch owner,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Susie Nottingham, the employee fired two warning shots before killing
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: the wolf as it moved towards cows with the young calves.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: So during the I saw this, it didn't actually take
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: a bite.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, it was it was quote threatening the wolves.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: And this is why it's like a big deal because
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: there's legality question involved, like like what does a wolf
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: have to be doing before it's legal to kill it?
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Because under Colorado's.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't think he was going up to say hi, no,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: but no do that.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: But there's this experimental population rule right, which says ranchers
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: may legally kill wolves if they're caught actively attacking livestock,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: working dogs, threatening human safety, et cetera. Conservation groups are
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: obviously arguing the thing was not actively attacking, right, and
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: it should involve criminal penalties under the Endangered Species Act.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: So it's a real like test case for for like,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: what a wolf has to be doing before a rancher
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: can legally, you know, legally kill it. Was it in
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: the Act, What constitutes an imminent threat? What evidence is involved?
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: In this situation, did the ranch comply with reporting rules,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: which it seems like they probably.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Is there any mention of yardage?
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: No, I didn't find any specific distance.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: That'll probably be certainly be part of the investigation because
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: it approaching it at fifty yards, yeah, or it approaching
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: it at ten feet or really different things.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, definitely, definitely.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: But you also have to think if it's a calf,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: it was calving season. Yeah, so if it's a calf,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be a really long time between
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: it getting no getting a hold of it and you
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: having a.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Problem, exactly.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: And yeah, they're very vulnerable that time of year, both
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: both the mothers and the cows. And you know, I
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: personally think you got to give rancher some leeway in
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: this situation. It's not as if it doesn't sound like
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: they were like out hunting wolves.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Right to the other part of it. They came clean
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: right off.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: The bat, yeah, exactly, which if.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: You like, yeah, you know, there's a slight parallel to
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: this would be that in a situation where being threatened
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: by a grizzly bear you might kill it self defense,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: it's gonna get investigated, yep. And they're gonna come out
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and do like a regular forensic analysis, like where was
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: the bear, where are the tracks, where's the shell casings?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: And sometimes you'll read yep, where they're like, yeah, he
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: was in imminent danger. And sometimes you read where they
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: feel like they got a little jumpy. Yeah, and maybe
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: and maybe this would lead to some level of distance,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: some kind of physical distance at which you could take action.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, some kind of guideline on where you can get
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: away with it. Interestingly, just about less than a week ago,
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: a few days ago, Colorado and Parks they killed a
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: wolf lethally removed a wolf after repeated livestock depredations. That
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: particular wolf was involved with it in the desk of
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: at least twenty four sheep. So like, yes, this other
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: wolf hadn't killed anything yet, but but like, it's not
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: as if CPW isn't going in and killing wolves that
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: are that are killing livestock. In fact, the state has
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: a released twenty five wolves in the last couple of years.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Fourteen of those have died, not all of them and
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: incidents like this, but several have been killed because of
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: livestock depredation.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: So where does that do you know, where does that
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: population sit right now thirty two and how many were
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: moved into the state.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Twenty five, So fourteen of those originals twenty five are dead,
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: so eleven of the originals are alive. That would lead
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: to twenty one that were born in the States in
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: the last couple of years.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: So they're taking hold.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Yep, we'll see what happens. Like I don't know what
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: will happen to that pack that no longer has like
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: a matriarch or a patriarch.
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: We'll see.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: You know what for a while is real big on
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: that word an apophesis offices is bringing something up by
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: saying you're not going to bring it up, right? What
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: you do when you're like fighting with your wife, you
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: know the example I use is you go like your
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: wife would usually say to you, maybe should be like,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna talk about what happened on Friday.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: That's an aypothesis. Yeah, Brody and I decided not to
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: cover a story about some some guys in Colorado. We're
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: not covering this some guys in Colorado who are saying
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: since the twenty since the twenty sixteen election was.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Rigged, No, twenty twenty was rigged.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Well no, because that because that wasn't rigged.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: Twenty twenty was the one Biden one.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: What am I saying? Yeah, sorry, you're right, sorry twenty twenty. Yeah,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: since the twenty twenty election was rigged, it must have
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: been that the Wolf vote was rigged.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: Too, Yes, and they want to over therefore.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: It didn't actually pass because we all know it was rigged. Yes,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and they probably rigged that too, but we weren't gonna
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: cover that story because I just need to read about
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: it more.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: But just so, but.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: That's that's a thing.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: But yeah, we'll keep an eye on this to see
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: if they end up charging this guy or not. I'm
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: gonna predict they don't.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna predict they don't if they did something totally fishy.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Like went and shot some puppies in a den or
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: something that.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: They would have not They wouldn't have said, hey, send
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: someone over. This just happened, you know what I mean.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: But that's right.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: And the other thing is I forgot this little detail.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: I think you might have mentioned it. It wasn't even
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: that it was the ranch owner that reported.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, So she's like the Nottingham's. This is like a
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: little editorializing. But having spent a lot of time in
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: that air. Like the Nottinghams are like an old school,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: like well to do Eagle County family.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't think they. I don't think they
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: feel like they got anything to hide and they're just
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: laying it out.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: Yep, yep, my old stopping grounds right there. Man, who's next?
• 32:07
  Speaker 6: You I am.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: I'm going to.
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: Get back to you.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: I gotta figure this out. What am I doing?
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Horseshit news stories?
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Man, Bill, can you pull up that picture?
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: This is the weirdest this, This one is the weirdest
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: thing was.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: I don't spend a ton of time on Instagram, but
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know what A couple of weeks ago I
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: sent this to you, Steve. I was scrolling through and
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: this came up. This is the name of this page
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: is Outstanding. It's out with two t's standing it called
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: the description is curating business, technology and breaking news in
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: one place. Three hundred and forty two thousand followers, including
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: some people I know that you can see who follows
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: different pages, and so they said this. Conservationists confirmed while
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: jaguars breeding uh in the United States for the first
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: time in decades. Trail camera YadA YadA. If you go
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: on to read what the post has to say, it'll
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: say that trail cameras in June twenty twenty six caught
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: pictures of a female jaguar with cubs in the Arizona Wilderness,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: like the Sky Island areas that we've talked about.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Before, like by twelve two hundred people, shared by three
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: four hundred and eighteen people.
• 33:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: Even goes on to say that there's strongly suggests that
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: a breeding population is establishing itself north of the border,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: and that the female and cubs were found in areas
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: monitored by the University of Arizona Wildcat Research and Conservation Center.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: So I'm looking at this and I'm like, Wow, that's amazing, right,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: But then I'm like, huh.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: It would be reported everywhere?
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, Like I immediately went to Google and like typed
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: in some stuff that would lead to any news articles
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: surrounding this event. Couldn't find any, but like Google AI
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: kind of went on to confirm what this instagram from from.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Just so the lesson is, Like, the lesson is like,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: if you're getting news from not and all, you probably
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: know this, But if you're getting news from social media
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: or AI, like man, you just gotta be careful if you're.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Wondering how long to boil like a hard boiled egg. Yeah,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: the AI over you can save you a lot of time.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: It comes to anything slightly complicated.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: And and I can't tell if this, this outstanding page
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: is even written by humans. It may be completely AI generally, but.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: The point this is not true.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is and and like this, this this page
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: appears like a legit news page. It has some legitimate
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: news stories on the page. But anyway, I got suspicious
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: emailed our our resident wild life biology expert, Jim Hefflefinger
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: from Arizona, from Arizona, and immediately he's like, this seems
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: like it's probably horseshit.
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: Horseshoot, yes, one.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Hundred dollars to.
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: Some other kids.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: He I feel like that's not that doesn't go horsesh
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: it shouldn't be concluded in there.
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, anyway, Phil, I would like to point out that this,
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: this writer says, I know, Phil does a good job
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: at bleeping them out, but it's not enough.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Sorry, sorry, I forgot to tell you that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: This kid said. This kid said, sorry, Brody interrupted news.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: We'll get back.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: He thinks Randall should host more roast episodes.
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: Huh, don't tell you honest, don't.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: Tell you honest. Back to half a finger, he did
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: some digging and he right off the bat he smelled
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: a rat. He did some dig in with some of
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: his colleagues and basically, yes, it's a hoax and less
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: some legitimate detail surface and.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I mentioned, you know this is I looked, it's not real.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Oh, I know, it's not I mentioned this could create
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: headaches for wildlife managers. And yet, like one of his colleagues,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: seems to constantly be dealing with stuff like this, like
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: the one there was a post that came out about uh,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: Mexican wolf releases going on that that had never it
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: never happened.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: So that he said, there's a photo. So there was
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: an article about them releasing Mexican wolves in northern Arizona
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: with a photo. Well it turns out the photo was
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: from Mexico.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: So yeah, even wildlife management is getting hit by this
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: stuff now.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And Heffelfinger said this too, that fake article,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: the fake article about wolves, which is like, what a
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: weird thing to fake even had fake maps with fake
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: GPS tracks on it. What are you gaining from that?
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: I don't get it. But the problem. The problem is
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: it's like not to like pat our own back here,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: like we're able to recognize this stuff. A lot of
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: people that saw that would just be like assume that
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: it's true. There's like no reason for them to think
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: that it's not true.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Right, That's why you got to come to the news
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: show for your news.
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, formerly trained news.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Because we check off, we dig into everything and check
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: it out. Man, most try to dupe us, so we
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: get on the phone and call people.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Suckers over the fishing desk.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: A new record was set at the sixty eighth Annual
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament, which I talked about this
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: with the whole Omnisoonar thing a few weeks back, with
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: a blue marlin that was nine hundred and nineteen point
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: nine pounds, big old thing. The previous record was nine
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: hundred and fourteen pounds.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: That's like a bunch of me laying there. They say,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: how long that like me and me and me and me.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many times A bunch of times
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: laying there.
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, slightly big pile of these. Unfortunately it's slightly less
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: than four of me.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: They mentioned when they I saw a news article when
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: they brought it in. They mentioned that the head of
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: the fish was in the in the saloon of the boat.
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: It was so long didn't fit on the whole back deck.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: The boat, Marlon Fever, which is a sixty three foot
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: jet bay from Wilson County, North Carolina, was the boat
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: that brought in the giant fish. Boat's captain by Captain
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: Cameron gut three and the angler who caught the fish
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: was eighteen year old Connor Daniel. Young kid, Yeah, young kid.
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: Which you saw that the fish was twenty years old.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that fish was two when that dude was born.
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet that fish.
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: Felt a disturbance in the force in his second year.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah. I don't like catching fish older than me.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I'm out to it. I'll eat them, but I don't
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: like it.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: So this fish was the heaviest fish ever weighed in
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: the tournament's history, and the payout for this fish. It
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: won two categories and the total payout was uh six million,
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: five hundred and thirteen seven dollars fifty cents.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: That is that has got to be taxed in a
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: very burdensome way. Like I just feel like when you
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: go to the irs and you're like, hey, I won
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: six million bucks in a fishing contest. That it's not
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: like it's that they have a special way they're going
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: to handle that, you.
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: Know, uh slide, let's get these guys desk.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: Our friend Brandon Pollinick was telling me one time that
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: their their tournament, like their tournaments are in different states,
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: you know, so they get they taxed for their winnings
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: in every state all the day, weigh all different ways.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: There's probably good states to win in bad states to
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: win in six million, five hundred thousand dollars.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: And it's the largest single boat winning in the tournament
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: sixty eight years.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: And that's the biggest tournament.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah wow, there's only ever been six blue marlin in
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: the history of this tournament, weighing over seven hundred pounds
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: brought to the scales.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine duking it out with that fish once
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: you started realizing what you had so two hours and
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: then when you're like, hey man, you know, be careful
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: with the gaff because that's you know, six million dollars.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Your kid's like, I'm got.
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: A gaff it.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: So this fish was caught on day two of the tournament.
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: It's a six day tournament, but you're you can fish
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: for the six days, so you can choose like what
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: days depending on whether and whatnot.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: As the people who are like forget it, I keep.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Aude, Yeah, but I mean you could.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: You can still potentially win more, you know, second, second
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: or third place, which is you know, still a bunch
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: of money. Yep.
• 41:17
  Speaker 8: Uh.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: So this fish won the overall heaviest blue marlin category
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: and also it won the Fabulous Fisherman Prize, which is
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: the first blue marlin brought to the scales during the
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: tournament that weighed over five hundred pounds and that comes
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: with the prize of eight hundred and seventy one thousand.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Dollars in addition or no, that's just.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Part of part of the perst.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, if you bring in the first blue
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: marlin weighing over five hundred pounds, that's how much money
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: you win.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: So this boat, fender Bender catches a six forty four, yep,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and that's not good enough.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: That's the second place.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: Second place fish was caught by fender Bender sixty four,
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: and the third place fish was Haphazard, brought in by
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: Haphazard weighing six thirty five great boat names. The total
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: payout split between forty seven money winners was nine million
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: dollars thirty eight and twenty five. There was a total
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: of two hundred and seventy boats that fished the tournament.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: And just to compare this fish to the current world record,
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: not even close blue marlin, Yeah, not even close. She
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: caught nineteen ninety two off the coast of Brazil, weighed
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: for just over fourteen hundred pounds.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Amazing and this slifting that there's still fish that big
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: out in the ocean.
• 42:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Uh. Seth had another thing that he didn't think was
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: worth putting in his story. Would you like to show wow?
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I was, I was gonna mention it.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: But the I read that the this fish had I
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: read two sailfish in his stomach.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Kind yes and no, it had a sailfish in its stomach,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: and it had a different sailfish's bill lodged under its
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: gill covered man and he's still out eating.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: I wonder if they if that's just like him trying
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: to eat like the one in the gills, if he's
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: trying to eat it, or if they are like duking
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: it like.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: My theory, And I don't know, I just read it.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I thought that he get in a fight with a
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: sailfish or was he trying to eat and it got
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: jammed over. I think it was like if you're eating
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: northern pike and you wind up with a bone stuck
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: in your throat. That's my theory something like that's the
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: equivalent of you're having a pike bone in your throat.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Is him having a billfish bill and his gill? Yeah,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. You have to ask him.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: It's gotta be a tough fish to eat.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: For fourteen hundred pounds for the world record, world record
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: blue marlin.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: Size of a lask of bull moose.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: And I can't believe also that you can kick one
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: of those off years.
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Now me and Seth want to get invited to that tournament,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: but I only want to go if we can catch
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a couple of wahu and some tuna just for eating.
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: There.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: There are some categories for for tuna and like dolphin
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: and stuff.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: If you guys go out and cess walleye boat.
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: I think if you just troll.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: My heat, there is an outboard division if you pick.
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: Up If you pick up a nine hundred pounder on
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: day two, you should be fine to just go out
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: and fill the fish for the freezer.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: So if you need a couple of guys to sit
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: around who don't know the first thing about marlin fishing, uh,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: we're both interested.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to go and just check it out.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Just watch ye.
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: Off to New Mexico.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Off to New Mexico.
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: So there's a story.
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: There's a couple of interrelated stories here that I'm gonna
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: thread together. And the first one is there's a recent
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: article or I guess a recent news story about a
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: high profile case of tag for but it speaks to
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: a larger discussion about opportunity allocation in New Mexico. So,
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: three guys associated with Big Horn Outfitters were obtaining ELK
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: tags through the resident draw system and then transferring them
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: to non residents in exchange for payment. And so what
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: they did is they created fake hunter profiles, fake names,
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: fake fake accounts. They drew tags and then requested medical
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: transfers to their clients. And so in the state of
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: New Mexico, you can get a doctor's note and then
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: instead of that tag going back into the draw for
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: the next Joe public hunter, you can designate who receives
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: your tag when you turn it in. So they're creating
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: all these fake accounts drawing tag.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Those dudes are all getting sick.
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: They're all getting sick. Yeah, and they're forging the doctor's notes.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: And so these guys were charged with wire fraud and
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: LASIAC violations. Even still, it's really bizarre that they were
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: able to draw this many tags, Like they drew thirteen
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: resident ELK tags with twenty nine fake profiles and there
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: so there's some speculation that they had even more fake
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: accounts that were that were.
• 46:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is all correct me if I'm wrong,
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: And this is all linked to the fact that, like
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: ELK tags are notoriously difficult to draw for non residents
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: in New Mexico.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: ELK tags correct, well, I can attest, yes.
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: So what's interesting here, Mark, And the other thing is this,
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: this could not happen as far as I know, most
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: Western states. You couldn't pull this off, right, because you
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: can't just transfer tags like that. And what was interesting
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: to me about this is the US attorney who announced
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: the indictment. His quote says, as a hunter, I know
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: it's extraordinarily difficult for New Mexico residents to draw ELK tags.
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: In fact, many New Mexicans who apply annually wait years,
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: sometimes decades to draw coveted tag and when the opportunity
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: to fill their freezer with elk, and so.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: That's premium unit.
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but still it is relatively speaking, it is hard
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: for New Mexicans to draw elk tags. And allocation of
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: tags in New Mexico would probably shock most people who
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: are familiar with how this works in other states. Every
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: Western state has landowner and outfitter tags and it's weighed
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: against public opportunity. But in New Mexico it's something like
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: sixty to seventy percent of tags go to the general
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: public and about thirty percent are private, whereas in most
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: states they reserve more than ninety percent for your just
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: any person applying to hunt. So it's ten times the norm.
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: It depends by species. In terms of antelope tags, New Mexico,
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: almost sixty five percent of them are just privately distributed.
• 48:10
  Speaker 5: Sixteen percent of all big horn sheep tags are privately distributed.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: And a lot of those tags you can then go
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: online and like it's like a bidding war for these tags.
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: So the private tags, what we're calling private tags here
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: divided between a mandated outfitter set aside, and then the
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: private landowner tag system. The private landowner tag system accounts
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: for the majority of those. I think it's like eight
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: to one something like that of these private tags, and
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: they can sell or trade them on the open market,
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: ostensibly the reason being to help offset the financial costs
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: of managing wildlife. The other thing that's sort of unique
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: to New Mexico is in most states where there are
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: landowner tags, their requirements for allowing public access to private lands.
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: New Mexico does not do this. It's just cutting off
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: a big old chunk of the public resource and sliding
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: it across.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Because you gotta. But I want to jump in here
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: and explain a part of that. Sure you will see
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: like in some states, I believe Colorado's this way, you
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: might see a open unit or closed unit landowner tag.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: If you let's say you have a rancher and they
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: own a ranch.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: Can I explain open and closed unit?
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: I think this is what you're getting at some tags.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: What I'm fixing to explain, Okay, go ahead. I'm trying
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: to paint a scenario. Let's say you're in a Let's
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: say you have an area there, you have an area
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: where you have a private ranch in a county and
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: there's also a ton of national forests in the county
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: and the rancher. The rancher's got twenty thousand acres and
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: he gets two elk tags every year that he can
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: sell as a way to offset his inconvenience for hosting wildlife.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: But you'd think so when he has his landowner tag,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: it must mean that whoever buys that tag from him
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: hunts his ranch. It's not that way. If it's an
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: open unit tag, he can sell you the tag and
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: you don't even touch his property. You can go hunt
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: the national forest. So you got guys buying landowner tags
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: hunting public land. But there are what state has a
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: closed unit one?
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: Colorada has both, so they all have tags where you
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: can only hunt the landowner's land and then you can
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: hunt the other what you were talking about, where you
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: can go anywhere in the unit and hunt.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so this I mean again, this happens in every state.
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: And there's it's like a spectrum of how favored one.
• 50:55
  Speaker 6: Side of the pie is versus the other.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I've bought I've bought of these in my life. In
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: New Mexico, I bought a landowner prong horn. I bought
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: a landowner elk tag in my lifetime. Full disclosure here.
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and you can't get mad at the player, exactly right.
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: It's the system, Like landowners and outfitters are defending the
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: status quo. Tag buyers are participating in the system as
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: the system's designed.
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: The issue is lawmakers who are who are stacking the
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: deck in this way, right, policymakers who are stacking the
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: deck in this way. There's two stories that relate to
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: this that could set the stain, set the stage for
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: a change in how this works. And and again it's
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: like it's not happening anytime soon, or it's not happening immediately.
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: But there's one lawsuit that was just settled. Some landowners
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: in the western part of the state in Catching County,
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: claimed there are too many elk and it resulted in
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: an unconstitutional taking of their property. They wanted additional compensation
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: from the state because the elk were eating their grass.
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: They're saying that there's so many elk they have to
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: reduce the size of their herds. Some of them are
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: saying they have to sell their ranches because the elk
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: are eating too much, and their claim is that the
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: state intentionally introduced a non native elk herd, managed its
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: population to grow dramatically, and knowingly relied on private lands
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: to sustain the herd. This went to district court, which
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: ruled that the unconstitutional taking of property claims were invalid,
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: but it left open the question of whether or not
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: the elk could be considered a nuisance that the state
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: has imposed. And then the state Court of Appeals upheld
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: the rejection of the unconstitutional taking of property question and
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: went further throughout the idea that elk can be a nuisance,
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: or that more technically, that the state could be responsible
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: for any nuisances caused by elk.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: So backfired on that, dude.
• 52:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and the state so the quotes from the quotes
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: from the decision are like, reaffirmed that the people own
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: the elk, the state manages them, and it sort of
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: says the elk exists, the elk have a right to
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: be there, they say, because the state is viewed as
• 53:15
  Speaker 5: the trustee for and not an owner of wildlife. Governments
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: that regulate the well being of wildlife do not have
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: a reliability for the actions of that wildlife. And it
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: also goes on to say the regulations that these guys
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: are complaining about, says none of the regulations require authorized
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: elk on private properties, nor do they prevent property owners
• 53:35
  Speaker 5: from building fences to keep them out. So in some ways,
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: the court is pushing back against sort of entitlement by
• 53:45
  Speaker 5: landowners to compensation for the wildlife, and it kind of
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: draws redraws a bit the boundaries of that relationship, right,
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: because a lot of these privatization of tags their product
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: of the acknowledgment that landowners do sustain wildlife and and
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: that's legitimate, but the state is kind of drawing a line,
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: or the court is sort of drawing a line in
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: the sand there.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I would be curious to hear if this individual, like
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: how many elk tags are available in this area, right,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: And if this individual is allowing hunters to access his
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: property to hunt and there and thereby disperse the elkerds, right,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: Or if it's well, I don't want anyone on my land,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: but I don't want the elk here either.
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, that's that's where a lot of That's where
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: a lot of these conversations end up. It's like there
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: are tools available in the toolbox it's just if some
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: landowners don't want to utilize public hunting pressure.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: It sounds like this guy just wants some payment, yeah,
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: for the fact that he's being inconvenient additional payment.
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: And So the other story that ties to this, and
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: this is more directly related to the question of tag allocation,
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: is that on April twenty ninth, lawmakers in New Mexico
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: wrote to the Attorney General about two questions they had.
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: About the current tag allocation.
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: System, noting that it seems to be in quote significant
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: tension with the anti donation clause in the state Constitution
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: and the New Mexico's Constitution. There's an anti donation clause
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: that prohibits the state and other governing bodies from making
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: donations of public funds or property two or an aid
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: of any private person, association, or corporation. So the two
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: questions that the lawmakers specifically raised had to do with
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: mandatory outfitter licenses under a set percentage. And one of
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: the reasons that this is sort of politically I guess
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: like one of the reasons that a a New Mexico
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: lawmaker might question that to make political hey, is that
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: ninety percent of those outfitter tags are going to non residents.
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: Got it, it's out of state money buying these tags
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: instead of these tags going to the people of New
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: Mexico who own the wildlife.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's like they're making donations exactly.
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: Go.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: This is the kind of law dog And like I
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: always thought I wanted to be a lawyer on sweepstakes
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: and raffle law. But this kind of law dog and
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: is real interesting wildlife and justice.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: And I mean kind of looking out for the residents
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: of New Mexico goes along with what's happening in some
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: other states already, right, Like you're seeing states that are
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: taking extra steps to make sure that residents get more
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: of the available tag.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Right that is it? Very compelling legal argument.
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and so they they say, their quote in the
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: letter is we know of no other state. This is
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: in reference to outfitter licenses. We know of no other
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: state that confers such a benefit, ultimately creating a system
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: where those with the greatest wealth from a loss the
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: country have a better chance of hunting New Mexico's public
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: lands than average New Mexicans.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: They're taking the populace.
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and specifically, something to note here they're they're talking
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: about outfitter tags, not landowner tags, which if you're talking
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: about creating more opportunity for New Mexicans to hunt big
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: game animals, you'd take aim at those landowner tags because
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: there are way more landowner tags and outfitter tags.
• 57:28
  Speaker 6: But here we have it.
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: Here, we have a case of of lawmakers kind of
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: standing up for democratic allocational wildlife. So I don't want
• 57:36
  Speaker 5: to pooh pooh it. But on the other hand, there's
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: bigger fish to fry. If you want to see more
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: New Mexicans enjoying that opportunity, count files Phil.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Out to put up a like a video of Dude
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Stern a big ol'd pot soup with a canoe paddle man,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: because these dudes are stirring the pot.
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: How about how about a stun.
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: A screeching eagle, a screeching with an American if.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: You have like a hat and said law dog and
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: this big old pot with like elk antlers sticking out
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: of it with a canoe paddle.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: I did see something that if they reduce the number
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: of those guaranteed outfitter tags, the non residence would still
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: end up booking the outfitters anyway.
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: Right, the The other thing that the lawmakers are questioning
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: is the fact that in New Mexico, for big horn
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: sheep licenses, which are you know, that's the biggest dollars
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: there are in terms of hunting opportunity. The way that
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: they do it is they combine the hunting units to
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: determine how many big horn tags go to the private
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: pool versus the public pool. Every other species, they're issuing
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: these licenses and dividing them up on a per unit basis,
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: but they're combining all the units for big horns, and
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: as a result, the number of licenses counted for determining
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: how many outfitters is artificial increased.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: Can I I don't understand, But can I explain please
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: part of this and then you can explain part of
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: it too. I just want I want listeners to get
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: a grip on what we're saying. Sure, Montana is ten
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: percent cap right, so Montana caps like take big horn sheep.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: No more than ten percent of the big horn sheep
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: tag allocation in Montana can go to non residents. But
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: you have units that only give out one big horn
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: sheep tag. So you would say, well, how in the
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: world could a non resident ever get the tag if
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: there's only one in that unit. So what they do
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: is they do it region by region. You count up
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: how many big horn sheep tags are available in all
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: of Region three, which is combined by many units. So
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: say in all of Region three there are twenty big
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: horn sheep tags. Therefore two can go to non residents,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: and it could wind up being that a non resident
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: holds the only big horn sheep tag in a unit.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: With that said, I don't understand what you're saying, so.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: I think one of the problems is that they only
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: do this for big horns. They don't do it for
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 5: other animals. My understanding is that, like in you're if
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: they were too, if they were to chop up that
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: pie into smaller pieces to determine before determining who gets what,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: it would sort of incrementally the percentages would drop.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 6: If that makes Does that make any.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Sense, I'd have to have a really good math person
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: who's used to explaining stuff the children. Yeah, I think,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: come in and tell me about it.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: I think the idea is that, like, because they have
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: to round, they have to round up or round down.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: As the pie grows, it rounds up further. I couldn't
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: actually explain it in any details, especially.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 6: I should that right off the bat.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but the lawmakers to get back to this letter.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 5: The lawmakers say, taking each of these issues individually and together,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: what are the constitutional implications in terms of the state's
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 5: obligation to manage New Mexico wildlife in trust for the
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: benefit of the people of the state. So the Attorney
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 5: General has not issued a response yes yet to this.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 5: It should be happening any day now.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: So a lawmaker can go A lawmaker can go to
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: the Attorney general and say, can you justify this to me?
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they're looking for an opinion.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he's got to come back and go, man,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: it really doesn't make any sense exactly. I don't know
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: why that's legal or whatever.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think, like the big picture,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: you might be the listener might be thinking, I don't
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: live in New Mexico. I'm never going to hunt New Mexico.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: Why does this matter for me? And the folks that
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 5: I talked I should say I talked to people in
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: New Mexico.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 6: Jesse de Bell from New Mexico Wildlife Federation.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: They they point out that New Mexico could be a
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: cautionary tale for other states, because again, this is a
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: it's not something that's like by itself unique to New Mexico.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: It's a it's a sliding scale, and in other states
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: they have similar programs, but it's slid way far in
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 5: one direction. In New Mexico and and last year's Montana
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 5: legislative session, they talked about transferable landowner tags.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 6: It's probably gonna come up again.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: Wyoming there was just a push for transferable landowner tags
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: and that kind of got killed, but it's going to
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: come back in another legislative session. So once you make
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: these tags transferable, it opens up Pandora's box for this
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: sort of the fraud case that I started with. But
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 5: all in all, like people own the wildlife, and it's
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: just like democracy, people own the wildlife, you should be
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: able to have a say in how it's how it's
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 5: done right. And New Mexico too, like stream acxis, it's
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 5: New Mexico's sort of on the front lines of privatization
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: of public resources. And they just had all these stream
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 5: access cases where guys are barbed wiring and concertina wiring
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: streams to prevent people from accessing them. There's guys digging
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: out river channels they're too deep to wade. And just
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: like the compliance with stream acxis, there's there are people
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: in New Mexico who are seeing how far they can
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: push it in terms of privatizing some of these resources.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: So I think we should all be paying attention to that.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: I don't want to condemn any state that does landowner tags. Yeah,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure there's places where it's where it's beneficial
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: to some sectors and some user groups, and I'm not
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: here to condemn it. I'll say this though, if I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: lived in a state that did not have transferable landowner
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: tags and someone was proposing to make that a new thing,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: I would stand in opposition to that. Yeah, I would
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: want to. I would want to maintain the status quo
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: of not doing that in a situation where we were
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: asking whether we should start doing it. Not to say
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: that places should walk back because they might have a
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: successful system, but I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: to be in a state where that went into play.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's a push and pull right, There's you know,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: whenever you talk about opportunity allocation, there's people that should say, oh,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 5: we should get rid of points. We should make it
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: a random draw. We should, and then you get into
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: the questions of read but.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of points though, idea.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 8: Well, that's the thing, and every New mex there doesn't
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 8: due point. Everybody has the right to say what they
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 8: think should happen, you know, and they're the people that
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 8: stand to benefit from undemocratic allocation.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 5: They're definitely making their voices heard. So if you're someone
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: out there who's sort of a wildlife populus, you should
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: weigh into.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: You know, like nimby wouldn't be if you were saying,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: not in my tag holder envelope.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 5: Nim nimph, nim nimbi.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not my tagholder envelope. Yes, I would say. If
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: New Mexico also is like, hey, we're kicking in points,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: I would be like, well, your sons of bitches better
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: go back in time and give me my twenty points
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: that I never got. I was like, just better be retroactive.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I I don't know. I'm you know, it's like,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 5: as hunters, we should be having these conversations, and like
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: when you look at New Mexico on its face, for me,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: it's kind of like, man, I feel for the people there.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it always you know, like you get like
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: you get a sort of like a state establishes a reputation,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: you know, and now then you'll hear a story out
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: of the state and you just won't be surprised. Meaning
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: when Texas said, Hey, even though Texas historically had Elk,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: we're going to all of a sudden now pretend that
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Elk are non native. I no disrespect to Texas. I
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: loved I like going there. I love the place. I
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: was like, that feels so Texas. When I hear stuff
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: out of New Mexico, I'm like, that doesn't feel New Mexico.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 5: It's real close to Texas geographically, and I think there's
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: I think part of the reason why it's such a
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: hotbed for this stuff is there's that money and that influence,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 5: oh shape.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: Texas second homes.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, at least with the stream access stuff. I know
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: that a lot of the a lot of the people
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 5: behind that, a lot of the people that are fighting
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 5: stream act SIS, it's it's people from Texas carpetbaggers.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: So for those that's what I think about watching Randall
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: threw his hands up in the air.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 6: You gotta get on YouTube for that.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: That's right. Do you want to see Randall throw his
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: hands in the air.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: You go check us out on YouTube and subscribe and
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 5: now Apple Podcasts.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: That's true. I heard, I heard app as well.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining everyone the only place to get the
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: straight news no bs. See you next week.