Latest / Love Conquers Fear / #60: AI Without Layoffs: The Enterprise Playbook for Upskilling at Scale — Brandon Gadoci

Transcript

#60: AI Without Layoffs: The Enterprise Playbook for Upskilling at Scale — Brandon Gadoci · Love Conquers Fear

0:00
Hey everyone, I want to announce that Love Conquers Fear with the
0:05
subtitle Humanity, AI and the Age of Abundance for All is now
0:09
available for preorder@loveconquersfear.org.
0:13
It is such a beautiful experience to have this book in
0:16
my hands. The version that you can
0:19
pre-order now is hardcover comes out on June 23rd in honor of the
0:25
solstice where the light overcomes the dark.
0:28
It covers a very broad range of how we're going to transcend all
0:33
the biggest problems and opportunities we have in the
0:37
world to enter into that beautiful age of abundance for
0:41
all. I hope you'll support the work.
0:42
This is my love letter to humanity.
0:44
This is my soul song. It's a deeply sacred book that I
0:49
poured my heart and soul into. Tell your friends.
0:52
Tell them about Love Conquers fear.org.
0:54
Tell them about the podcast and ultimately tell them about this
0:58
book because this is the manifestation of all the work
1:01
I've done on this path, and it is my deep, deep prayer for all
1:06
of humanity. Thank you so much.
1:08
When AI hit, for me, it just made sense.
1:10
It was like this unlock with the way that I work and think and
1:13
communicate, and it allowed me to start doing things I'd always
1:16
wanted to do. AI is making everybody an
1:18
entrepreneur and they're getting to to release this pent up
1:20
innovation that they've had in their heads forever.
1:22
The AI is best benefiting those who can figure out how to become
1:25
conductive sectors of knowledge and context.
1:30
Welcome back everybody to the Love Conquers Fear podcast.
1:35
You know, one of the things that I meant to mention in the last
1:38
recording was this past weekend. Now, by the time you see this,
1:43
it will be way past this moment, but this past weekend is when
1:47
President Trump signed an executive order to fast track
1:53
psychedelic research for therapy.
1:56
And as you know from the podcast I had Brian Hubbard on episode
2:01
53, he is the founder and CEO of Americans for Ibogaine.
2:07
The efficacy for ibogaine in saving opioid addicts,
2:11
Alcoholics, suicidal vets. We have lost four times as many
2:16
vets to suicide than combat since the Iraq war, which is a
2:22
crazy stat to fathom. The efficacy is that so far,
2:27
over 80% of the time, 1 dose completely curesome, which is
2:33
incredible. And no matter what you think
2:36
about psychedelics, and I understand that for some it's a
2:39
very taboo subject, We're programmed, you know, I've
2:43
talked about programming many times on this podcast.
2:46
The Nixon administration was the original source of that
2:50
programming, at least in this lifetime for many of us, where
2:54
there was a, there was a real cancellation, if you will, of of
2:58
all inquiry into psychedelic research, even though the
3:02
efficacy back then was showing very promising results for
3:06
people suffering from depression, from alcoholism, et
3:10
cetera. But no matter what you think
3:13
about it, the research is pretty undeniable in terms of how well
3:17
it works for people that are really suffering, You know,
3:21
whether it's in DMA and it's couples therapy, you know, I've
3:25
seen that repair many marriages. I've seen people, you know,
3:30
really have transformational journeys with psilocybin with
3:34
all types of things. I have talked about my
3:36
transformational journeys on this podcast as well and
3:41
actually quote from my journey that led to this calling for
3:46
love conquers fear. This is the pin ultimate moment
3:49
for me in this lifetime in terms of really trying to help
3:54
humanity have a heart shift. And there's many people that are
3:57
part of the light as I've covered on this podcast.
4:00
I just read a beautiful piece by Demisysibis.
4:03
He's responsible for everything AI at Google.
4:07
But I just want to congratulate Brian Hubbard and the whole
4:11
Americans 5 game team. I was just at Ted and Steve
4:16
Jorbinson and Geneve, his wife. We're at that signing.
4:20
They're very pro psychedelic and have seen all types of
4:25
transformations with with friends and whatnot.
4:28
And they were there too. And one of the things that Steve
4:31
said, which is so funny in his Facebook post about it, is that
4:37
President Trump apparently said, you know, I think I should get a
4:40
hold of some. I became myself, which would be
4:44
unbelievable if he actually did that because it allows you to
4:49
transcend so much trauma in a lifetime.
4:53
I was just talking with a friend earlier today who did an
4:58
ibogaine journey recently who has absolutely transcended a
5:02
massive amount of trauma and has a new lease on life.
5:06
So, you know, why should you have to cross the border and go
5:10
to Mexico if you're an American to have a journey that could
5:15
quite literally save your life? You know, and we should have
5:18
that care and empathy for our veterans and for anybody
5:22
suffering. Obviously, you know, PSA on
5:26
psychedelics as we put out many times, including episode 25 with
5:31
Patrick Gintempo, you know, make sure that you really check the
5:35
references if you feel like calling to do this.
5:38
Women have been preyed on in psychedelic journeys from
5:42
stories I've heard. I've never personally seen that,
5:45
but stories I've heard. So, you know, there's weird
5:50
people out there that minister this stuff, and then there's
5:53
some people that are very much part of the light that you can
5:57
really go into a place of trust and deep surrender when you're
6:00
in the medicine. But I just want to say that I'm
6:04
really excited about this. I, I got some Flack and posting
6:07
this on LinkedIn from a gentleman who said, well, hey,
6:13
you know, we shouldn't have to do executive orders for things.
6:16
We should follow the normal process and respectfully.
6:20
And I showed him great love. We have had 50 plus years of
6:25
following the same process and we have gotten almost nowhere,
6:29
right? I mean, you know, people
6:31
literally have to go to another country where they are more in
6:37
my opinion developed in this area to have a journey type
6:44
experience legally. And that creates all types of,
6:50
you know, separation, right? The people that can afford to do
6:53
that, I mean, these vets, they're having to raise money
6:56
through donations to be able to go to Mexico.
7:00
And these substances, these plants and the chemicals derived
7:05
from them, you know, ibogaine is derived from the Boga plant.
7:10
You know, they're available to us to alleviate suffering.
7:13
So. So anyways, I just want to say
7:15
congratulations on that. I think that like every
7:18
administration, there's good and bad.
7:20
For sure. I am very centrist politically.
7:25
And you've when you when you get a win, like run with the win,
7:31
doesn't mean that I'm a supporter of everything
7:34
President Trump is doing. That's not the message at all.
7:37
But this is a big, big win for alleviating suffering and from a
7:44
deep place of love. My love for all of humanity and
7:47
my prayer for us getting to the age of abundance for all.
7:50
This is a big deal. So very happy about it.
7:53
I also told you on the last episode that I'm so lucky to be
7:59
holding the first print proof of Love Conquers fear in my hands.
8:05
The subtitles Humanity, AI and age abundance for all I have put
8:10
heart and soul into this book literally the past eight months
8:15
intensive, you know, writing, rewriting, additional research,
8:20
you know, trying to keep up with all of the AI trends as well.
8:24
But I really am very proud of what this has turned out to be.
8:29
You can pre-order it at loveconquersfear.org.
8:32
You can also they're going to be discount codes there in the
8:35
future. I just can't tell you how much
8:38
this fills me up with with love and and hope.
8:41
It's very clear eyed on what the risks are in terms of US
8:46
reaching that age of abundance. For all it's talks about why you
8:50
should believe we can do it at all.
8:53
If we give up on humanity then and and think we're not worthy
8:57
of entering and we all we all manifest that well, then it is
9:01
then of everything. But if we believe in the great
9:04
potential we have and the beauty and all of us, the divinity
9:09
within that divine spark that lives in us all and the
9:13
beautiful acts of love that happened daily versus what you
9:16
would expect. If you just sit back and let the
9:18
news onslaught you with a bunch of negative stories making you
9:21
think we live in a total dystopia, you, we'll, you know,
9:27
we'll have that heart shift. And as we have that heart shift,
9:30
we'll enter the age of abundance for all.
9:32
And it's in all the spiritual text that love must conquer fear
9:36
both within ourselves and us helping each other.
9:40
And this is really my prayer, my manifesto for us to get there,
9:43
looking at all the biggest problems, all the biggest
9:45
opportunities. So I'm very, very excited today
9:50
to welcome a very good friend, someone I've known for a long,
9:54
long time. We'll kind of unpack that, tell
9:57
the story about that. Brandon Godochi.
10:00
Brandon, how you doing? It's good to see you.
10:02
Yeah, absolutely. Man, I'm so happy to be here
10:05
with you. Yeah.
10:05
It's been a long time in the making.
10:08
Yeah. Why don't we start out with how
10:11
we know each other? Let me just let me just give you
10:12
some love. So you were the first employee
10:17
at Data dot World alongside us as Co founders, and you played
10:23
so many different roles in the company.
10:25
You always played them with such a such incredible grace, you
10:30
know, humility, but also intense Dr. and and curiosity.
10:36
And the the reason I think you're able to do that is
10:38
because your background is so unusual.
10:40
I really want to unpack that. It's amazing like how many
10:44
things you've done and, and in my opinion, you're kind of like
10:46
a Renaissance man meets capitalist.
10:49
I'll take it, yeah. Yeah, it's a compliment and and
10:54
yeah, you even I've known each other a long time and it's
10:57
amazing what you're doing now in terms of really being on the
11:00
leading edge with AI operations and helping companies towards
11:05
that. And and you know, I got to see
11:07
that first hand at one of the the biggest customers at data
11:11
dot world. We probably shouldn't name them
11:13
on the podcast, but but just you and I had this great meeting
11:18
with them and you saw the light bulb turn on and that was a
11:22
beautiful moment. It was fun.
11:23
That was one of the that was one of my most fun moments with you
11:25
on the road. That was a cool trip.
11:27
But yeah, so I really, I wanted to have you on because, because
11:31
a, you know, you know more about AI than almost any business
11:35
professional. I mean, there's very, very few
11:37
who who now have studied it as obsessively.
11:41
And when I originally, you know, approached you at dated out
11:45
world about kind of taking the mantle on this, I was like,
11:50
Brandon, you know, first of all, I know you're going to be good
11:52
at it. Second of all, you're going to
11:53
be able to write a book on this. And I was like, third of all,
11:57
like, you know, you'll be one of the most in demand guys.
12:01
And that's what that's what's happened, but it's happened
12:04
because of you and your drive. You know, I mean, as ACEO,
12:08
you're just trying to like give people nudges with lots of love
12:11
and and then it's up to them whether they take the ball.
12:14
And you took the ball, man ran all the way down the field with
12:16
it. Now you're scoring A touchdown
12:18
and AI operation. So.
12:19
Well, yeah, it was, it was, it was a really cool time to be,
12:22
you know, exploring those concepts as as magical
12:25
technology came out. And then we all sat around and
12:27
were like, is this what do we do with this?
12:29
And then to spend 4 years with you and the team doing that was.
12:32
Awesome. Once you describe that initial
12:33
light bulb moment where you were working with Brian Jacob at
12:36
Dated Out World and we're like holy moly.
12:39
Yeah. So, so you know, part of my back
12:43
story, but I would end up at at early stage, well funded venture
12:48
back companies and kind of come in as a guy that could do a lot
12:50
of different stuff, right, because my background, design
12:52
and development, sales, marketing, But at the end of
12:56
that journey was always sort of me running a sales team, right,
12:59
like a team invest DRS or BDRS. And I, it was after one of the,
13:04
the all hands for off sites that we had and I was having a beer
13:07
with Brian and I was like, Hey, it's not lost on me that on, you
13:11
know, one part of the day on one side of the table, I'm annoyed
13:15
by all these cold calls that I'm getting and I'm halfway trolling
13:19
these cold callers. And then I immediately turn
13:21
around and ask how many calls my sales team made.
13:24
And so that dissonance in there kind of led me to, to say, Hey,
13:28
is there a better way to do this?
13:29
And I've been thinking about the sales world and, and you know,
13:32
how that's that worked for a long time and how, how is that
13:35
model going to change? And then ChatGPT launched and
13:38
started getting into that. And I just looked at Brian and I
13:40
was like, hey, there's got to be a better way for us to do this.
13:43
Can we create an experience where we let people own the
13:45
conversation, we guide them towards the help that they need?
13:48
And, and Brian was listening and then like 11:00 that night, he
13:51
shot me a link in Slack and he's like, you mean like this?
13:53
And I was like. As as only.
13:56
Brian, Jake was like, I mean, exactly like that.
14:00
And so, yeah, then then, you know, let's.
14:03
Describe what that was. We gave it a name and
14:05
everything. Yeah, basically we we you know,
14:08
I was saying can we instead of like the website, can they have
14:10
this experience? And but we take specific data
14:13
dot world knowledge and we infuse it at the right times.
14:15
And so he, he created a, you know, what's now very popular,
14:18
but a rag application using Streamlit, just a chat interface
14:23
that referenced a huge Jason file that we got from all the
14:26
knowledge on our website, all the pages on our website.
14:28
All the white papers. Everything, I think it was like
14:30
a 32 megabyte text file, which is pretty big.
14:33
That's a big yeah, that's a big file and so all.
14:35
The blog posts including everything.
14:37
Yeah, there's. Like 3000 pages worth of content
14:39
was in there. And so, so yeah, it worked and
14:43
it was cool. And we were at the office at the
14:45
all hands the next day in the office.
14:46
And I was kind of like while people were talking, it's not
14:48
very good, but I was going around and being like, hey,
14:51
dude, check this out. Look at this thing.
14:53
I remember you did that with me. And I did with you in the
14:56
meeting. Yeah.
14:56
And then people started looking at it and Oh my gosh.
14:59
And they started using it. And then I was like, wait a
15:02
minute. If I just change the prompt a
15:03
little bit and create another one of these, I can use it for
15:07
something different. I can do it for marketing
15:09
campaign generation. I can do it for strategy
15:11
sessions. I can do.
15:12
And so that's when we kind of all got together and said, like,
15:14
what if you did that and and kept doing it and so.
15:17
That's kind of, and I think, and I think, I mean, you know, I
15:19
don't know if it was a first, but it was the first, it was the
15:22
first website I knew of for enterprise software where you
15:26
could chat with all the content. I mean it really it really.
15:30
It was early. It blew people away like like as
15:33
I was raising money, I would show this to prospective
15:35
investors and they would just fall in love with it.
15:39
Customers, you know, fell in love with it.
15:41
Then it quickly expanded into documentation so that customers
15:45
could just chat with all of our tech docs versus, you know, read
15:49
through a big tree and. We started using it internally
15:52
for, you know, folks to get the information quicker and then
15:55
that posed challenges. Right now we've got eight of
15:57
these tools and how do we scale that?
15:58
And that was a whole another part of the.
15:59
And by the way, we're we're reminiscing about this as if
16:03
it's so long ago. This was three years ago.
16:05
This was three years ago. Yeah, this is it.
16:07
I mean, Chachi PT launched November 30th of 2022.
16:13
It was March of 2023 where there's a moratorium like Paul's
16:17
all AI development, you know, 37,000 people sign that.
16:21
And you know, what we're talking about is a very simple text
16:25
based chat with all the content at dated art world and, and you
16:30
know, we expanded on that, you know, many times over.
16:33
It's kind of cool. I don't know if you saw recently
16:35
that ServiceNow announced the context engine, which is
16:38
something we pioneered the dated out world a couple of years ago
16:43
and it's now integrated in all the ServiceNow stuff, which is
16:46
cool. But you know, we're so far
16:50
beyond that moment. I mean we're like AI generated
16:53
video and like full on like you know, one prompt and you can get
16:56
to 3D games created from scratch.
17:00
I don't know if you've checked out what notebook LM is up to
17:03
you now or you can take, you know, you can create a whole
17:06
infographic from APDF, you know, including, you know, this book,
17:13
you know, video version and then, you know, full slide deck.
17:17
Oh yeah, I did. I did it with with this book and
17:19
I was like blown away. Yeah, the way, you know, it
17:22
produced, it's not uncommon now for like a family member, you
17:27
know, at night after dinner and I'll be on the couch as they're
17:29
settling down to walk in and just find me talking to the
17:32
computer because all with the way that everything is set up
17:37
for for us right now. Yeah.
17:39
Are you talking to me? Like, no, I'm trying to get work
17:41
done, but it is it is this it's a new way of working.
17:44
And I think knowledge work has changed.
17:46
And I think we're, I mean, smack dab in the middle of that.
17:48
It's been it's been changing. But then, you know, December of
17:52
last year and Anthropics just, you know, historical run on
17:56
feature releases, which you would expect if AI is writing.
17:58
AI has been just awesome and disorienting to be in.
18:05
Yeah. Anthropic at a 30 billion run
18:07
rate now? Yeah, up from like a billion.
18:09
Up from 14 billion, I think in December, In December, I think,
18:13
yeah, I think. I think it's 15 months.
18:15
Yeah, I think it's 15 months from a billion to 30 billion.
18:17
It's insane. Run right.
18:18
It's never happened before. Nope.
18:20
No, and it's good. I mean, it's, it's, it's like I
18:23
said, it's amazing, but it's introducing new challenges and
18:27
and and new sort of mental health things that I think we
18:29
need to think about for sure. You know, I, I haven't got a
18:32
good name for this. Maybe you can help me figure it
18:34
out on the podcast. But like this, this idea of
18:37
unbridled, unobstructed potential of progress or
18:41
potential of being better of learnt.
18:43
Like this idea I can do, I can learn, I can go do anything.
18:46
And that in and of itself, you know, is intoxicating, but also
18:49
like retiring. So you got to learn how to to
18:52
work in this new world. So anyway.
18:54
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, but but the ability well
18:58
that's, that's all about the inner journey and just being
19:01
able to self regulate period no matter what you're doing,
19:03
because pre AI you could have worked yourself to death and had
19:07
no balance at all. These.
19:08
Are not new problems. Yeah, I mean when.
19:10
I, when I wrote the book, the entrepreneurs essentials, that
19:12
my, my favorite chapter of that book is chapter 14 on the seven
19:15
lessons learned from founder to CEO.
19:17
And one of them is to really take the time for deep
19:21
reflection, like whether that's walks in nature or taking a
19:24
vacation with your family, because you can, you can burn
19:27
yourself out period versus just, you know, practicing some kind
19:32
of reflection and love, you know, and, and, and there's no
19:37
end to the drive for materiality.
19:41
And that's not ultimately the path to happiness.
19:43
I mean, you need to have a certain amount for, you know,
19:47
for, for living. But the the path to happiness is
19:50
found from within. Yeah.
19:53
In terms of anything lasting, you know, versus the ephemeral.
19:57
But, yeah, I mean, I think, I think we've had this problem
20:01
actually forever. But the thing that that's so
20:04
exciting is that the barrier to creativity is absolutely being
20:09
shattered. I mean, shattered.
20:11
Yeah. You know, which is, which is so
20:13
exciting at Ted. You know, you haven't seen this
20:15
Ted Talk go live yet. I was just there last week.
20:19
And there was this, there was this, I was there actually with
20:22
Juan Cicada, which was really cool.
20:24
And so Juan and I were watching this talk by this woman creating
20:28
this beautiful AI generated artwork that is really
20:33
different. It's really something new.
20:34
It's not something that's existed before in the world.
20:38
So you remember just several years ago, people are like, it's
20:41
the end of artwork and etcetera, etcetera.
20:43
Yeah. And this, Ted, it felt like,
20:45
hey, we're adapting and we're learning.
20:49
And yes, there's lots of watch outs, but there's a lot to love.
20:53
And this woman's, like, coming out with her own record now.
20:57
Like, she's in her. I think she's in her late 50s or
21:00
60s. She's like, never thought I'd be
21:01
doing that. Yeah.
21:03
And her artwork is just really, really gorgeous.
21:07
And so, so like, you know, we're in this time where she's like, I
21:12
could have never produced anything like this, but what
21:14
she's producing is so novel. It's so novel.
21:17
She's using like she's, she's, she's really focusing more on
21:21
organics like how flowers unfold, etcetera.
21:27
And you know, nature is the best teacher because nature has had
21:29
billions of years of evolution. Like the best products typically
21:33
are designed around nature. When we were in Japan this past
21:36
summer, I learned that the way that they designed the subway
21:39
systems was watching how the mycelium networks form.
21:43
And so they actually like had mushrooms like to see where they
21:47
would go because they they figure out the best path.
21:50
And then they designed the subways after that.
21:51
And there's highly efficient. That's awesome.
21:54
So, so in terms of your, you know, background getting to this
21:59
point, how do you see the dots connect in reverse, you know,
22:02
thinking about let's channel Steve Jobs, you know?
22:05
Yeah. This, this, this, this, you
22:08
know, age that you're at, like why?
22:11
Why do you why do you think this is your calling?
22:14
You know, it's it and you mentioned it in the piece you
22:18
wrote the the lattice about the Steve Jobs speech only
22:21
connecting the dots, looking back and not going forward.
22:23
And it's so true. And and.
22:25
Yeah, it's my science fiction novella.
22:27
Yeah, right. I was happy to hear you'd read
22:29
it. Yeah.
22:29
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, it's hard.
22:32
And, and, and as you're going through that journey, there's
22:34
parts of it where it doesn't feel like you're making progress
22:36
sometimes or you're in the right place, or maybe your message is
22:39
to wait and you don't like that. But as I do look back, yeah, I
22:44
tell my kids like, you know, that I don't know what I want to
22:46
do. I was like, look, I'm I'm 47 and
22:48
I think I just figured, I think everything came together for me.
22:50
So it's a journey. But you know, I went to art
22:53
school right out of high school, which, you know, my dad had wore
22:57
a suit and tie every day. And I said, of course, you know,
23:00
the son has to, I'm going to do something different.
23:02
And, and so I went to art school and played soccer.
23:04
I was going to be a graphic designer and do all that.
23:07
I ended up not loving it there. And so I came back to to Austin,
23:11
TX and got into an advertising degree because they took the
23:14
most of my credits from art school.
23:15
It's kind of hard to transfer into an MIS degree with
23:18
sculpture and 2D design. And so did that I got an
23:24
advertising degree, 99 market crashes, all the advertising
23:27
agencies go under that plans shattered.
23:30
And so I ended up renting trucks for a friend's company here in,
23:33
in town. And then I ended up selling
23:36
copiers and sharing war stories in my first, you know, 750
23:40
square foot apartment with my wife with our, our neighbor
23:44
about selling copiers. And he was like, man, you should
23:46
come over and work it. A financial advisor or big
23:50
financial advisor firm. And I was like, that's
23:54
hilarious. Mainly because I was still
23:56
working through getting a misdemeanor off my record for
23:59
writing a hot check in college. I, I wrote a check for $1.39 for
24:05
a pumpkin for my first date with my wife and it bounced.
24:08
Oh, no. And I paid the bank, but I never
24:11
paid the grocery store. And I didn't know when it went,
24:13
it went on your, it went. So I had to take a class during
24:16
the summer on how to balance a checkbook and I screwed that up
24:18
the first time. And so I was like, yeah, sure,
24:20
I'd love to become be a financial advisor.
24:21
It seems like a good fit. But I learned a lot that, you
24:24
know, at, at that phase, it's, that's kind of a sales job as
24:28
much as it is a financial advisor job, if you can find the
24:31
right partner. And, and so I went in there and
24:33
I, and I did that and I got really intoxicated with that
24:37
idea of success because I was kind of looking around the
24:39
office and I was like, I think I can work harder than that guy.
24:41
And I think I can study harder than that guy.
24:44
And, and so that, that's what I did for nine years and learned a
24:47
ton. When you start in that world,
24:50
you know, they gave me $32,000 in salary and 12 months and
24:54
said, you got to pass these three tests.
24:56
If you fail any of them, you're fired.
24:57
You got to go to New Jersey at the end of this training program
25:01
for three weeks and do like role-playing.
25:03
And if you mess that up, you're fired.
25:04
And when you come back, your salary's gone, right?
25:07
So go to town, right? So just.
25:09
Sounds like something that everybody would sign up for it.
25:12
Sounds like. Yeah, exactly.
25:14
But it was a lot of fun. I learned a lot in that process
25:16
and then, you know, later on met you along the way and, and, and
25:20
so I did. That for I was a customer.
25:21
Yeah, good, good origin story. There, the way I met you was a
25:24
little bit of a calamity, but you know, I still, I still work
25:30
with Carl as one of my guys and he's one of the amazing.
25:32
He's one of the guests best guys.
25:34
I've met or he was your partner for?
25:36
Yeah. And so I set off, you know,
25:38
after that journey and tried to figure out what I want to do
25:41
next. I want to go try to be an
25:42
entrepreneur on my own. And so I had all these ideas and
25:45
really from about that point I'd been just idea machine, right?
25:48
And you've known me this whole time and I'd call you or text.
25:51
You idea machine. So I was really just trying to,
25:55
to grind through all these different things.
25:56
And so, you know, I, I ended up with an odd set of skills at
26:00
that point too, because I had the art background.
26:02
I had done sales from financial advising, doing my own stuff.
26:06
I had to learn how to do marketing and all of that.
26:08
And I taught myself to code along the way too, back in the,
26:11
you know, the the old days of Stack Overflow and posting
26:14
questions and trying to figure it out.
26:16
And so I became this, you know, attractive hire for early stage
26:19
venture companies and I'd come in and kind of help them do all
26:22
the things. And then, you know, at dated dot
26:25
world, we kind of got where I had that arc right?
26:27
And I was running the SDR program and having that
26:29
conversation with Brian and then everything just sorted the click
26:32
when AI hit for me, it just made sense.
26:36
It was like this unlock with the way that I work and think and
26:39
communicate and it allowed me to start doing things I'd always
26:43
wanted to do. And that's a, you know, offshoot
26:45
of this conversation. It's like what I'm seeing in the
26:47
enterprise is AI is making everybody an entrepreneur and
26:51
they're getting to to release this pent up innovation that
26:53
they've had in their heads forever.
26:56
And so, yeah, so if. They choose it.
26:57
If they choose it. They have the free will,
27:00
including their job to to either fear it or embrace it.
27:05
And I'm not saying that they should bury their head in the
27:08
sand in terms of like having balance and the way they think
27:13
about the way we're constructing.
27:14
Yep, you know, the evolution of work and the world.
27:18
But fearing something that can make you so hyper productive and
27:25
get you to more of the good stuff where you can exercise
27:29
more of your creativity is really fun.
27:32
I mean, I don't know how many years it's gonna be before we
27:35
feel like Mickey Mouse and Fantasia.
27:37
It's like I already feel like. That.
27:42
There, moving the stuff around. I talk about it that knowledge
27:46
work is is done. The AI is best benefiting those
27:49
who can figure out how to become conductors of knowledge and
27:52
context. I'm just moving this information
27:54
around to get to the result that I want to.
27:55
Get to you. You've already figured out the
27:57
make and mouse. Yeah, I've never thought about
27:59
the Fantasia piece. That makes sense.
28:00
But yeah, so, so, so that just hit.
28:03
It worked for in Fantasia though the the little broom mop guys
28:07
got out of control. They did get a little.
28:08
Out of control he had. He had to shut it down
28:10
eventually. So, you know, even in Fantasia,
28:13
there's a, there's a little arc. There's a little watch.
28:15
They needed some governance in there that.
28:16
Was they did? They did, yeah.
28:18
But then it was just off to the races and and, you know, at
28:21
dated dot world, you you were a big advocate and and pushing me
28:24
not just to build cool tools, but you've got to, you know,
28:27
address the change management and education piece of this.
28:29
And so we worked really hard on that.
28:31
That's become a core part of what we're doing now.
28:34
So I'm thankful that you pushed on that.
28:35
Yeah, that's uncomfortable. I mean.
28:37
One of the books that, you know, is so, so pithy because it's so
28:43
simple is like who moved my Cheese, you know?
28:45
But it became this multi bestseller and change
28:49
management's hard. Like, like the there's a lot of
28:52
friction in people just adopting new things, even if it's so
28:56
obviously superior to old ways of doing things.
28:59
Yeah. Yeah, there's this.
29:00
There was these moments that we had back then where I'd be like,
29:02
check this out, isn't it cool? And everybody be like, it's
29:04
super cool. And then I'd look back and like,
29:06
are you using it? And like, not really.
29:07
Yeah, like what? What happened?
29:09
Yeah. Yeah, I thought we were.
29:10
So yeah, learned a ton in that. I mean.
29:12
Even at data dot world where we hired like super adaptable
29:15
people. Yeah.
29:16
So think about what was happening inside the big, you
29:20
know, 10,000 plus people companies, Yeah.
29:23
And I'm still saying we're seeing it right now.
29:25
And, and so, yeah. So, so that was the journey.
29:27
And then when, when the my time at Datadot World, it's been
29:31
ServiceNow sort of came to an end.
29:32
I, I, I thought, I wonder if the rest of the world might be
29:36
interested if I hung up shingle and said, hey, I can maybe help
29:39
you bring this magic into the company.
29:41
Yeah. And it turns out a lot of people
29:43
are interested in that conversation right now.
29:45
So it, it feels like to your point, all of a sudden it all
29:51
came together and it's working and it just feels like I'm in
29:56
the right place with the right set of skills and interests to
30:01
have a lot of fun and and build something kind of cool.
30:03
Yeah, yeah. What what are some of the, you
30:06
know, stand out moments so far in this journey?
30:09
And what what do you call it? You call it just your name, just
30:11
OC Consulting. OK, good.
30:13
I thought, I thought that's what you called it.
30:16
Yeah. We could talk about that later.
30:18
Like it's. It's tough to put your name on a
30:19
shingle. Yeah, but.
30:22
I needed to put it on AI, needed a slack domain and when I
30:25
started doing just a one off little things I just wanted to
30:27
make goodness in consulting. You know, you know, the very
30:29
first company I started was called Hurt Technology
30:31
Consulting. Did you know that?
30:32
No, I didn't know that. No.
30:34
That was that was that was it. So, you know, in terms of in
30:38
terms of like standout moments so far with with customers would
30:41
have been things where it's like, yes, you know, that's just
30:44
awesome. Oh man, there's been a bunch.
30:47
I'll, I'll, I'll try to 0 in on what I mean, there's a lot of
30:50
little ones that like you see joy in people's faces or you
30:53
introduce this technology and all of a sudden they're like,
30:55
you're kidding me. I can do that.
30:56
Almost like leave me alone. I want to go.
30:58
And then, you know, that entrepreneur, they became the
31:00
entrepreneur. So now they're creating and
31:02
they're, they're, you know, and I know that you're, you're big
31:04
on the creation piece of things with this, with a lot that
31:06
you've written. And I see, you see that you see
31:08
that people's desire to to create.
31:11
We do that. We do one thing.
31:12
We kind of, we have as part of our system, we go and we try to
31:16
identify like the internal AI champions and you know, we
31:18
create a group out of those people and we have a specific
31:22
curriculum and road map for them.
31:23
So the idea is like, hey, you know, 5 to 10% of the companies,
31:27
people inside of departments and companies kind of already are
31:30
doing this. They're high agency curious
31:31
people who are experimenting with AI.
31:34
They're the ones walking around showing people things or sharing
31:36
news articles. We say, you know who are they or
31:39
we'll help you identify them. And then let's get just walk in
31:41
the same direction. We'd started this data dot
31:43
world, you know, let's just walk in the same direction.
31:46
What we're going to do is offer you a front row seat to the
31:48
future of work. We're going to keep you up to
31:50
date on news capabilities of AI. We're going to teach you how to
31:52
do discovery. But ultimately, we want you to
31:55
become the front line drivers for AI adoption and use case
31:58
discovery within your functional business units.
32:01
And when you start that, that meeting, you kind of get this
32:03
group of people together. And, and you know, I've
32:05
identified 6 personas inside the company from making, you know,
32:08
very excited people to, you know, who stole my cheese
32:11
people, right? And so, but the most rewarding
32:15
thing is overtime that meeting, I always leave about 25 minutes
32:18
in that meeting for show and tell.
32:19
And early on an engagement, I'm poking people behind the scenes
32:22
being like, Hey, I know we built that thing for you, but we will
32:25
you present it and go do that. And you're trying to piece this
32:28
show and tell together, but over time, it's so cool to watch as
32:33
now every time we we run out of time in that section, people are
32:36
volunteering. Look what I made, look what I
32:38
created. Can I demo on this next time?
32:40
Can I show this thing? Whatever.
32:43
And when you're talking about, you know, ROI on, on AI, that's
32:45
a whole conversation we can have.
32:48
But if you're looking for change management indicators, that's
32:50
one for us that we look for a sort of leading indicator
32:53
because from that group then it pushes out to the rest of the
32:55
company. So that's so cool.
32:57
I mean, it reminds me of our youngest starter when we were in
33:00
Japan a few years ago. This is this is when AI was very
33:04
new. She was showing them.
33:08
Yeah. I mean, she'd ask them a few
33:09
questions and then she would make a song and Suno to to show
33:15
them how she could create a song in J Pop style.
33:19
Yeah. In Japanese.
33:20
Yeah. About their restaurant or about
33:23
their business. Yeah.
33:24
And the joy you'd see on people's faces because it's the
33:27
first time and I would tell her that's the first time in their
33:30
entire life that they're ever going to have that experience
33:33
because you are the one that introduced them to AI and you
33:39
getting to do that in business after business.
33:41
I mean, let's face it, like most of us in business spend almost
33:46
all of our waking time doing the job.
33:49
And so making it joyful is to everything.
33:53
Yeah. I mean, like, let's make it
33:55
count. Yep.
33:56
You know, making it impactful. Yeah.
33:58
You know, working for a company where you really think the
34:01
mission is aligned with what you're supposed to do, etcetera,
34:04
the culture. So it's that's got to be, that's
34:07
got to be really joyous. It's cool to see to see it.
34:09
It's cool. And you know, then the random
34:11
emails you get, hey, by the way, you say something in a meeting
34:14
and you introduce somebody to something.
34:16
I mean, the pace of change right now is, is so fast that every,
34:19
you know, three months, I've got a new set of things to talk
34:21
about with people. But the e-mail or the slack
34:23
message or the teams message that you get back where it's
34:25
like, Hey, that thing you said in that meeting, I did that.
34:27
Look what it did. That was super cool.
34:29
Thank you so much for that. That's, that's pretty rewarding
34:32
stuff. So.
34:34
Has there been any big surprise yet?
34:37
Like something where you thought you thought this was going to go
34:42
one way in terms of people's acceptance or not.
34:47
You know, I think I don't think it's specific, like specific to
34:50
AII think it's more specific to consulting that, you know, when
34:54
you when you come in as a consultant, you're not
34:56
everybody's best friend right off the bat.
34:58
There's certain, you know, pockets of people that maybe
35:00
aren't that excited about you being there.
35:02
Oh yeah. I've experienced that.
35:03
I've been a consultant before, yeah.
35:06
Right. And so you know, that the, the,
35:07
the kind of winning hearts and minds as you're in there and
35:09
earning people's respect and, and that is, is something I
35:12
actually enjoy doing and I think I've been successful at.
35:15
But it, it wasn't on the list of things that was in there was
35:18
like, Oh yeah, there's that aspect of it too.
35:19
There's, you know, I generally feel like I'm a likable guy and
35:23
I, I, and so that's jarring to me when before someone's even
35:27
met me. I mean, you got to you got to
35:28
remember their, their reading. I just, I just had a friend text
35:33
me right before this. Actually, it was Mitch Joel who
35:36
was just on the podcast. He was the last episode, but he
35:39
just texted me right before this about a big layoff that Mehta is
35:43
doing today. Yeah, that's like something like
35:46
6000 employees. And so there's there's going to
35:50
be people when you walk in and they're claiming that they're
35:53
doing this layoff because of AI. But when you walk in where
35:58
people are going to be like, oh, this is the guy that's like
36:00
going to lead to us all losing our job.
36:03
But it's not, that's not the actual reality.
36:06
I know, I know, I know that you're actually the guy that
36:10
honestly could help them keep their job because you're going
36:14
to level them up. And then they're going to be
36:16
super valuable not just to that company, but every company they
36:19
ever work at afterwards. Like, the more they become, you
36:23
know, super adopters to wield more creativity in their job,
36:30
the better. I mean, that's every job that
36:32
has ever existed. Right.
36:33
I mean, we used to have people called calculators, right?
36:35
Exactly. And and so like every
36:37
technological revolution that. Comes along, great movie.
36:39
Hidden Figures. That's a great movie.
36:41
Yeah, Every major technological shift we see, there is job
36:44
creation and displacement and so on.
36:46
And now we're in the heart of this.
36:47
And you've got articles coming out they're saying it's, you
36:50
know, AI is taking jobs. And then you got really
36:52
reputable people saying they're using it as an excuse, and
36:54
actually the jobs have been created.
36:55
I mean, Marc Andreessen's weighing in on this recently.
36:58
But what I can tell you is from our standpoint, I'm just not
37:00
interested in that conversation. Like there's not a single client
37:04
that I've walked into that says, hey, can you help me cut jobs?
37:07
And if they did, I probably wouldn't take the engagement.
37:09
I'm much more interested in levelling people up, teaching
37:13
them as possible, bringing joy to the work, and then as an
37:15
organization, making that company, you know, more
37:18
innovative and unlock all the things that they wanted to do
37:20
over the years. And, you know, if there's a, a,
37:24
a narrative that we stumble upon that is, you know, so callous as
37:29
to just make that the objective, then we, we won't take the
37:32
right. Well, there's, there's no
37:35
imagination in that type of objective.
37:37
What, what should be foremost on people's minds if they
37:42
experienced that massive productivity lift with AI is
37:46
what new markets can we enter that we've never entered before?
37:49
What new products can we come out with that have been on the
37:51
shelf that we didn't have the ability to come out with them
37:54
before? Like the laziest companies will
37:59
think about it only as a margin expansion.
38:02
The the smartest companies will think about it as a
38:05
transformational move for their enterprise.
38:07
You know, one of the meetings I was at this week, I'm really
38:10
proud to serve on the executive Advisory Board at the Dell
38:15
Medical School. And just recently it was
38:18
announced that Michael and Susan Dell have given over a billion
38:22
dollars now. It's never happened before to UT
38:25
Austin and they're building this Medical Center, which is 2.5
38:31
million square feet, which the average downtown building, by
38:35
the way, in Austin, like, or even the big ones, Yeah, are
38:38
like 800 to 900,000 feet. So take the largest skyscraper
38:41
downtown Austin. Yeah, 2 1/2 times those.
38:45
Yeah. And they're taking this approach
38:48
from the very beginning of putting cutting edge AI, cutting
38:51
edge robotics, like really putting the patient at the
38:55
center. You know, the presentation I
38:57
saw, they were showing the state-of-the-art hospital rooms
39:01
around the world. And like, would you want to stay
39:04
there? Yeah.
39:04
And it's like, heck no. Like the humans not even thought
39:08
of even in state-of-the-art where it's high tech.
39:10
And so they're really making it like a place where you would,
39:14
you know, nobody wants to go to a hospital, but where you would
39:18
feel more at home. I love that I haven't heard of
39:21
the. Cold, sterile.
39:23
And so it's incredible. It's happening in Austin.
39:25
I Austin goes from strength to strength.
39:27
But you know, that's the that's the right way to think about
39:31
what new things can you do. Yeah.
39:33
As a result that you could not do before, Yeah.
39:35
Yeah, it's just not, it's it there's 0% of our time in that
39:40
story. It's just not there.
39:42
And, and, and what's great is that I've been doing this now
39:46
long enough to, you know, when you start something like this.
39:48
And we came up with the system at data dot world and it was
39:50
like, is this going to work? And I'm going to try this.
39:53
So how do I have to move it? I use this analogy a lot called
39:56
getting the couch in the house. And when I talk to potential
39:59
clients, it's like, look, I have this this thing I came up with
40:01
and it's it's. It's from experience and I've
40:04
stepped in potholes and I've had some successes and I'll explain
40:08
it to you. But ultimately it's kind of
40:11
like, you know, if you ever help somebody move, I'm not, I'm not
40:14
a big fan of helping move. It's a lot of work.
40:17
Oh, it's a lot. Of work, but you know, I, I
40:19
found myself standing in the front yard and there's a big
40:21
couch there and the guys like, you know, we got to get that in
40:23
that living room in there and you're like, I don't know how
40:25
we're going to get it's not going to go front door, back
40:27
door, legs off doors coming off the hinges.
40:29
And that's what I kind of tell people is like, we have this
40:31
system, but it's not right, You know, exactly like it is for
40:34
every single client because there's different cultural
40:36
things or different objectives. And so we try to figure out how
40:38
to get the couch in the house. How do we bring these these
40:40
tenants in this thinking to your company personality and make it
40:44
yours? So, so I'm curious, you know,
40:45
asking you this question because you've had such exposure to so
40:52
many different AI tools and really trying to stay on the
40:55
cutting edge to be able to help your customers like Gaddoshi
41:00
Consulting. Like what would have been some
41:03
of the biggest shifts you've seen in terms of these
41:06
announcements? It's very hard to keep up these
41:08
announcements. Like Ethan Holland, who was on
41:11
episode 4 of the podcast, he has now surpassed I think 60,000
41:16
links since charting this at the beginning of Chachi PT's launch.
41:23
Like he comes out with a weekly newsletter and he hand curates
41:28
this. I mean, it does use AI to help
41:30
him, but he hand curates this to try to keep up with it.
41:35
And it's, it's, it's one of my favorite newsletters because
41:38
there's like so much in it every week.
41:41
And, and I'm, I'm just curious for you because you're putting
41:44
out a lot of great content now on LinkedIn and other mediums,
41:47
but what are, what are some of the moments where you're like,
41:50
OK, this kind of changes things quite a bit.
41:54
Yeah, I could, you know, I think everybody call, I call them a HA
41:56
moments like, and there's been so many.
41:59
I mean, so like starting out, you know, I think my very first
42:05
a HA moment with AI was when you remember Mario from data.org,
42:11
He, he showed me something that that wrote like 4 paragraphs of
42:16
texts. And that's the first time I was
42:17
like, because in my head it was like, that's not, they can't
42:20
actually write something that's believable.
42:21
And it was like, wow. So that was like, what is
42:23
happening here? And then there's been so many.
42:26
I mean, there's, you know, little ones.
42:29
When Chachi BT first came out and I was like, make me a poem
42:31
about a pirate playing baseball or something.
42:33
That was like, oh, I did a really good job with that.
42:35
And then they just compound and they stack and they compound and
42:37
stack. There was moments early on when
42:40
I'd be one of them was helping one of my kids with homework and
42:43
they'd give me their study guide or their textbook.
42:47
It was when images, they started processing images, I was like,
42:49
is there any way that, and I would snap a picture of it and
42:52
be like, give me 10 questions about that and it would do it or
42:54
it'd help me answer the question.
42:55
There was those moments there was, you know, back when we were
42:58
copying and pasting code into Chachi BT and then I'd put it in
43:02
and I hit the button and it would run and I did something I
43:04
never could do before. I mean, working with Brian on
43:06
what we, you know, created that vectorizer thing behind the
43:09
scenes, he would give me a little bits of instruction.
43:12
I would go research it. And then I was able to go from
43:15
his three lines to like working code, which was, and that's
43:19
compounded and compounded. I would say most recently, you
43:23
know, while the video stuff was cool and image generation stuff
43:26
is cool, those were like mini aha moments.
43:31
It was this, you know, since December, there's just been some
43:33
of the Claude cowork stuff has been blowing my mind.
43:37
Claude code, you know, just turned a year a little while ago
43:40
now. I remember specifically when I
43:41
was getting into agentic coding, I tried them all right, the
43:43
cursors and windsurfs and all that.
43:45
And I remember being on, I think it was Windsurf and somebody
43:48
saying you really need to try Claude code.
43:50
And I was like, why? I've already got magic in a box
43:53
right here. Why would I change anything?
43:54
This is going so well. And then they gave me Claude
43:56
Code and I was like, that's why it's a completely different
43:59
thing. And so, so yeah, it's been a
44:01
series of those. It's it's so exciting and almost
44:05
to the point to where it's like, I can't even talk about it
44:08
anymore because to people that you mete out, like I'll ask
44:11
people sometimes just as a first question, like, you know, what
44:14
cloud code is and just watch their eyes.
44:17
Because usually if if they get wide, like, OK, you, you
44:19
understand the state of how this stuff is going otherwise.
44:22
So yeah, a ton of different. If they ask you what is called
44:26
code or just what is called. Period.
44:28
Yeah, like, oh, how do you use it?
44:31
Copilot? OK, so so yeah, there's been a a
44:35
ton of those along the way. And as far as keeping up and,
44:39
you know, having an opinion on it, I've used AI to help me in
44:42
this process the whole way. So, so we have, you know, for
44:45
our team, all of these skills built out like a lot of people
44:48
do right now, Like what do we do and what's our writing style and
44:50
what does our take and what do we think about this and how do
44:53
we do business? And, and so when an article or
44:56
something comes in, I just share it to a Slack channel, it gets
44:59
picked up, I get an interpretation of it with a
45:01
button that can be turned into all types of content.
45:05
We've got a, a platform that we use as well for our clients and
45:10
we have an expert, We have a, a catalog in there of like all
45:13
these tools that we're trying to keep up.
45:15
And so when a new tool comes out, I have a skill that just
45:17
runs through what it is, does the research on the Internet,
45:21
compares it to what we do, gives us an opinion back.
45:23
We circulated around the team, give it a stamp and then we put
45:25
it up there. So within, you know, a day we
45:27
can have. A pretty flexible opinion.
45:29
That's a great way to keep up. Yeah.
45:31
So a lot of the, again, conducting that knowledge and
45:34
context around and with all these, you know, new
45:38
announcements pushing more into work flows, you know, just
45:41
yesterday was the ChatGPT works for workforce workspace agents
45:45
that came out. It's just getting easier and
45:48
easier to sort of tie up these stores of knowledge and then
45:52
process through it a lot quicker than we could in the past.
45:54
So but it is tiring. Yeah.
45:57
There's known if you've seen the memes on X, they're like, you
46:01
know, hey anthropic, can you just chill for a day?
46:03
Can you just chill for a day? We need a chance to breathe.
46:05
You know, it's only going to get more exponential.
46:08
You expect it. Well, well, that's been the arc
46:10
of all tech unless something really bad comes along to to
46:15
slow it down or I mean, you know, there there is this
46:18
question, you know, Dario Emoji and I think and Sam Altman and
46:24
Mustafa Solomon and demosis of have kind of all centered around
46:29
this, which is when will it get to the point where it can do
46:32
novel science? We're not at that point yet, but
46:36
but there was recently someone who created a novel vaccine for
46:42
this. Pretty esoteric I think I.
46:44
Saw something about. Something something their child
46:46
had. Oh I did this was I did read
46:49
this. Now, now they, you know, they,
46:51
it was the human and machine running together.
46:54
It wasn't just, it wasn't just the AI, you know, creating it
46:58
without any human guidance. Yep.
47:00
But that was pretty interesting. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, then
47:05
there's all the anthropic's done, a couple hackathons where
47:08
there's been some, you know, Doctor Who didn't even know how
47:09
to code, who created something that was crazy.
47:11
And so, yeah, I mean, the the, you know, back to this, the, the
47:15
unlocking of all of these ideas that have been in people's
47:18
heads, you know, all over the world is I think you've talked
47:22
about like the explosion of innovation that we're going to
47:24
see is just. Well, I mean, once, once we get
47:26
to the point, if there's some barrier for doing novel science
47:30
that like we we don't yet foresee, then, you know, then
47:36
this isn't true. But but if if there's not, if we
47:39
actually get to the point in the next, I don't even know what I
47:43
should say next year or two months.
47:45
I don't know where it it has a breakthrough in terms of the way
47:51
we're able to do novel science. Yeah.
47:55
Then you have an exponential curve that's so profound.
47:59
Yeah. You know, I've I've, I've talked
48:02
about on this podcast and I talked about in the book that if
48:06
we could just capture 18 seconds of the sun's rays that fall on
48:10
Earth through the material science breakthrough needed, we
48:13
would have over a year of energy for America.
48:17
It's crazy. 18 seconds. Yeah.
48:19
You know, God put the big fusion, you know, light bulb in
48:23
the sky and they said plug in. You know, it's right there for
48:26
you figure. It out and looking at it every
48:28
day. Don't just use the dinosaur
48:29
juice. It's right there.
48:32
And so, you know, we, we, we have, I think we're going to
48:36
figure that out. And then if you think about what
48:40
happens once you decode energy, you can desalinate everywhere.
48:46
You can run robots on unlimited sources of power.
48:51
All of the projects that have been on the shelf, like I
48:54
personify in the book where Chad, you know, the country in
48:59
Africa, they have a GDP of $660 a person.
49:03
We have, we have a lot of a lot of places in middle middle
49:06
America too, which have problems with all types of stability.
49:11
But in Chad, like it's a different deal.
49:13
Like, you know, there's almost no clean water, electrical, you
49:19
know, supplies, like not a not much of a thing, you know, food,
49:23
healthcare, you know, it's, it's, it's a whole different
49:26
world when you've got $660 GDP a person.
49:30
And, you know, if we had unlimited energy, we could go in
49:34
and build whatever, whatever they need to have similar levels
49:39
of abundance that maybe we had in America, you know, 20-30,
49:43
forty years ago. And then eventually they'll
49:45
transcend into, you know, a better and better life.
49:49
Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's a,
49:54
it's a, it's a, it's a very exciting moment once we get to
49:56
the point where you can do novel science.
49:58
Yeah, I think, I think, you know, a lot of headlines and
50:01
people like to talk about the, the, the, you know, the doomsday
50:04
Terminator scenario, all this stuff's going to happen.
50:06
And I think, you know, there's a nice healthy debates that are
50:09
being had around, you know, getting this right.
50:11
But but yeah, there's only, there's, there's less people
50:14
talking about the abundance angle that this is going to
50:17
potentially create across all different facets.
50:21
I mean, going back to the book that you recommended to me 10
50:25
years ago, the it's just called abundance, right?
50:28
It's asked by Peter Daminos. Yeah, but that idea that they
50:31
put, you know, forth there's we've always innovative,
50:33
innovative our way out of problems into a more abundant
50:36
future. And if this, it's a great book.
50:38
Yeah, great book. I loved it.
50:40
I think that it stuck out to me. It was like used to work.
50:42
I'm not going to get this right, but three weeks to get an hour's
50:44
worth of lamp oil, right. And now we get it by the time I
50:48
ended that sentence. And so yeah, I, I, I, I think
50:53
we, we have. And then that goes to kind of
50:55
like was a Kevin Kelly Kelly, what technology wants to.
50:58
Yeah, we, we, we, we innovate our way to the future.
51:01
And so I think we have a good track record as a humanity of of
51:06
kind of making the right call here.
51:08
But a lot to your thesis is, is we've got to get a lot right in
51:11
the next 10 to 15 years ish to, you know, to, to really capture
51:15
what the promises. And so.
51:17
Yeah. How do you, how do you see it
51:19
playing out? I mean, you know, it, it feels
51:22
like very high stakes. You know, one, one of the one of
51:25
the things I said on the episode with Mitch Joel is, you know,
51:30
growing up as a nerd, he grew up very much as a nerd too.
51:35
There was this moment where Revenge of the Nerds came out.
51:38
That movie loved them. And if it's a great movie?
51:41
Three of them, I think are two. And then and I said, you know,
51:44
Mitch, it's kind of like responsibility of the nerds now.
51:47
It's like, you know, the the revenge occurred.
51:50
And I don't mean like, I've never felt in my heart like a
51:54
punching down on people. But, you know, we became
51:59
successful and now we're in this moment of incredible
52:04
responsibility. Yeah.
52:06
You know, the, the, I mean, Chris Himes left indeed as the
52:09
CEO to teach this course on air responsibility.
52:12
He was on episode 57. That was amazing discussion.
52:17
And he's he's, he's got a lot of watch outs.
52:20
He's he's, he's pretty concerned.
52:23
So we, we, we try to unpack that quite a bit on that episode.
52:26
But you know, I tend to be more optimistic.
52:31
And as I laid out in, you know, in the book, there's a lot of
52:35
case studies, I call them new models for humanity on why
52:39
people should be. It's not like a false, you know,
52:42
just Pollyannaish. It's, it's actually like we've
52:45
done really great things, like during the height of the Cold
52:48
War where we supposedly we're supposed to never do anything
52:53
with Russia and hate them and they hated us.
52:55
Our best scientists worked with their best scientists to solve
52:58
smallpox. Yep.
52:59
If, if it wasn't for that, that could have been an extinction
53:03
event. Yeah.
53:03
You know, and, and so it's, it's, it's a time where, you
53:08
know, it's a time of great, great responsibility.
53:10
With great power comes great responsibility.
53:12
Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I couldn't agree
53:14
more. And I, I'm optimistic in
53:16
general. Like I, you know, I, I tend to
53:18
think a lot of the, you know, headlines and stuff are, are
53:21
hyperbole. So I'm optimistic in general.
53:24
I think it does bring us like closer to some interesting
53:26
questions because you know what one of those things you hear
53:30
about like bias in the models, it was a lot bigger in the news
53:32
a couple of years ago than it is now.
53:34
But but it it leads to interesting conversations.
53:37
Chris brought that up a lot, by the way.
53:39
Chris Heim. Oh yeah, yeah.
53:40
Yeah, on episode 57, he talked about a lot.
53:42
Yeah, the. Bias of them all.
53:43
And I think if you go up that Channel, how do we get rid of
53:45
bias? There's certain stuff that's
53:46
easy to get away from. Like don't let people create
53:49
bombs. Like we all agreed on that.
53:52
But as you walk up that chain, you got to start wrestling with
53:54
some questions that we haven't answered, like what is good?
53:57
What is truth? Are they subjective?
54:00
Are they objective? You know, and then who gets to
54:01
the what do we do when we get to the end of that and we disagree
54:04
on some fundamental things? And then how does that play out
54:07
through the through the lens of this technology?
54:08
Is is interesting. All right, The same questions
54:10
we've been asking for thousands of years.
54:13
And so, you know, between that and I, I loved your, your the
54:17
way you always said, when are we gonna hit AGI?
54:20
It's like, I don't know when you tell me what consciousness is,
54:23
right? It's the second hardest we mark
54:24
over in that whole. So I I I like how it bring like
54:27
the further you go up that the more philosophical that you have
54:29
to get. And if it's, if it's causing us
54:31
to have those conversations again, I think that's important
54:34
and good. And so how do I see it playing
54:37
out? You know, I don't know that I'm
54:39
in a position to have any authority on that, but.
54:42
None of us. Are none of us are but.
54:43
We're all we're all just figuring.
54:44
Out. I'm optimistic.
54:47
As we go. Yeah, we're figuring out as we
54:49
go. I'm optimistic.
54:50
I like hearing the conversations, you know, people
54:53
that are very concerned and, and getting in and asking for
54:55
regulation or not doing it. And so, yeah, I, I, I tend to
54:59
think that we're going to end up in a place that's much better
55:02
than we are now on a lot of different levels because of
55:05
this. So.
55:06
Yeah. I mean, one thing that is I
55:08
think not thought about a lot, I, I spend a lot of time in the
55:12
book on it is how much we're going to be able to understand
55:18
about the reality we're actually in because of the acceleration.
55:22
Like we know, we know so little, you know, you know, from the
55:25
episode with, with Mark Gover and he lays this out so well.
55:28
That was episode 2 of the podcast.
55:30
He was my first guest on that. We, we know so little about the
55:35
universe at all. I mean, let's, let's be really
55:38
clear. Like one, we know what 4% of the
55:41
universe is made of. We call that matter.
55:43
We don't know what the 96% dark matter, dark matter and dark
55:46
energy. We have no idea what that is.
55:49
Two, we're very landlocked on a single planet in a universe that
55:53
now with James Webb telescope we know has hundreds of billions of
55:58
galaxies, like just fathoming what a Galaxy is, is like super
56:02
hard. And we're very landlocked here.
56:04
I mean, it was great to see what Artemis 2 did.
56:06
But, you know, that's that's kind of astonishing, right, That
56:10
here we are. And, you know, we have no idea
56:14
what consciousness is, which is the basis of every experience
56:18
that we have. Yeah.
56:19
That. I mean, if we were just robots,
56:21
like we would not be self aware at all.
56:24
Like, you know, there there's a lot of animals on earth where if
56:28
you put them in front of a mirror, they do not have any
56:31
sense of self. Yeah.
56:33
At all. Yeah.
56:34
You know, I love my dogs. They're absolutely a treasure,
56:38
but they don't know when I put them in front of the mirror.
56:41
They know that that's like Cosmo or that's a river.
56:43
I have no clue. Yeah.
56:45
Yeah, it's so. We're going to be able to decode
56:47
more and more of that as we as we write up this exponential.
56:50
Curve along those same lines in an example like the the quantum
56:53
physics stuff has fascinated me for years just that like hey by
56:57
the way down here nothing makes sense and we don't understand
56:59
why things can be in two places at once.
57:03
Quantum entanglement, all these different.
57:04
And so yeah, there's there's you know, since I was a kid, I can
57:08
remember still a thought that I had when I was young was like,
57:11
we're standing on this rock in the middle of nothing.
57:16
Vastness, vastness. And then as I've gotten older,
57:19
that vastness just expands and expands and expands and expands
57:22
and I get fascinated by all this stuff around, you know, how do
57:24
we explain you know, how how we came to exist and what is
57:29
consciousness. I love that you know where where
57:31
did everything start? OK, The Big Bang.
57:33
OK, well, what banged? That's a whole other like.
57:36
Why did it? Yeah.
57:38
Exactly. So, yeah, I, I, I think
57:41
especially in the consciousness piece around how AI starts to
57:44
wade into that, that's, it's super interesting to me because
57:48
the, the more and more it goes by.
57:50
And maybe it's because it's, I wouldn't know as much as others
57:53
on this, but maybe it's because it's designed after, you know,
57:56
us or the way our brain works to some extent.
57:58
But it seems like it just keeps. Yeah, every like one of the
58:01
things that I loved, it was forget the talk that I saw, but
58:04
somebody was saying like everybody's talking about
58:06
hallucinations. This is two or three years ago.
58:09
Everyone's talking about hallucinations.
58:11
And it's like, you know, that's not just an AI problem.
58:13
Like we do that all the time. Sure.
58:15
Like if I asked you what you had for breakfast last week on
58:18
Tuesday, it might get close. But if we went back, it's not
58:21
true. So I don't know.
58:22
It's yeah, it's. You know, Neil Seth at this
58:24
year's Ted, he gave my second favorite talk actually was by
58:29
him. And it was another talk on
58:31
consciousness. And he has this graph where he
58:33
shows consciousness and intelligence and he's like,
58:37
these are two very different things.
58:38
You know, like machines can be extremely intelligent.
58:41
And you know, like you said, we used to have computer jobs where
58:46
people are literally manually calculating like like they were
58:50
in Hidden Figures. And you know, consciousness is,
58:55
you know, even even if you're just a total materialist is a
58:58
full body experience. We have neurons, we have second
59:01
most neurons in our in our gut. Like gut instinct is a real
59:04
thing. And you know, it's so
59:08
mysterious. I mean, you and I are around the
59:13
the average male is around 37 trillion cells.
59:17
OK. And and then there's an equal
59:22
number of things that live that cohabitate with us, OK?
59:26
Like our gut has trillions of, you know, organisms that, like,
59:30
live, you know, cohabitate. And every day there's around 30
59:36
trillion things that are dying and being reborn in US between
59:41
cells and these organisms. Yeah.
59:43
And somehow we maintain this permanence of.
59:47
Yeah, Yeah. Who is Brandon?
59:50
Yeah. And all the way dating back to
59:53
when, you know, your earliest memories were in the arc of
59:57
everything that's happened since.
1:00:00
And I have, I have, I have many experience.
1:00:01
I'm sure you have this experience or where things float
1:00:04
into my consciousness that I forgot about.
1:00:07
You know, this this, this award I won at Tulane University.
1:00:13
Recently for Entrepreneur of the Year, which I had no idea that
1:00:17
was coming, it was like a shock when President Fitz said he
1:00:20
wanted to give this award to me. Like during before the speech, I
1:00:27
was, I was wondering, well what, what should I speak on?
1:00:31
I put out just a call to the universe and something floated
1:00:36
into my consciousness that I had completely forgotten about.
1:00:41
That was around a 20 year old memory.
1:00:45
And it happened in New Orleans and it was a real magical moment
1:00:48
in New Orleans. And then after another 10
1:00:52
minutes, something flowed into my field of consciousness that
1:00:56
I'd completely forgotten about. And I literally like laughed out
1:01:00
loud and I knew it was my mom. I knew it was my mom's soul that
1:01:03
pushed it in there. And it was one of her favorite
1:01:05
songs when I was really young by this band called America called
1:01:11
Magic. And the song is You can Do
1:01:14
Magic. Yeah.
1:01:15
It's a great song. Yeah.
1:01:17
And the music video, you can't make this up.
1:01:20
Like, go to YouTube and watch the music video.
1:01:22
They're playing in heaven. That's crazy.
1:01:25
They're playing amidst the clouds.
1:01:26
That's crazy. Right.
1:01:27
Yeah. And and then I did a meditation
1:01:31
and the whole 3 arcs of the speech floated in one by one,
1:01:36
like lock, lock, lock. Yeah.
1:01:38
And it was one of the best speeches I've I've ever given.
1:01:40
That's awesome. And Rachel's friends were like,
1:01:44
how did you do that? And how many weeks have you been
1:01:48
preparing? I said, well, actually this was
1:01:50
the day that I prepared. And they said, well, how did
1:01:54
that happen? I said, well, I said I it all
1:01:57
came to me in a meditation. I didn't tell them about the the
1:02:00
Super woo stuff because I want a freak.
1:02:02
Great. Job.
1:02:05
But it's, it's so mysterious, you know, and, and I think
1:02:09
that's, I think that's the soul. I think that's the soul.
1:02:12
I think that's the energy of, of us, because we know from quantum
1:02:16
that we're all light and energy at our core.
1:02:19
I mean, I'm, I'm looking at you and then a quantum level.
1:02:22
You're 99.12 nines of empty space because you're made of
1:02:26
atoms. That's what my wife says.
1:02:28
Yeah, exactly. But so is everything in here,
1:02:31
right? This, this chair and everything
1:02:32
else. Yeah.
1:02:33
Like, we know this for a fact now through quantum physics.
1:02:36
Yeah. So that's like crazy.
1:02:39
It, it, it, it, it breaks my brain, right, right.
1:02:41
And then, and then there's, you know, I think as you get older
1:02:44
too, and you start contemplating these questions.
1:02:46
I know for me, when I had my my son and, and then shortly after
1:02:49
my daughter, you start seeing the world a little bit different
1:02:52
way and start asking these important questions.
1:02:54
And then, you know, people go down this rabbit hole at
1:02:57
different levels. You know, some people don't even
1:03:00
want to talk about it. Other people just get down a few
1:03:02
levels. But man, I went all the way down
1:03:05
this. And it's a basis for a lot of
1:03:06
my, you know, faith and beliefs that I came to.
1:03:10
I came to my face through what they call apologetics, which is,
1:03:13
you know, the rational defense of 1's position, whether it
1:03:17
being religion or not. I don't know how many debates I
1:03:19
watched on this stuff between I've.
1:03:21
Never heard of that. Tell me about it.
1:03:23
Yeah, apologize. Yeah, apologetic.
1:03:25
That's just you. You can be an apologist for
1:03:27
anything. You know, I could be an
1:03:28
apologist for this couch. I'd just be telling you why this
1:03:31
couch is. You're sounding very Canadian.
1:03:32
Yeah, very. Yeah, Canadians are by nature
1:03:35
apologist. Yeah, and I'm sorry for.
1:03:37
No, I'm just, Yeah. So, so, you know, over the years
1:03:41
and and it's in religion, it's used quite a bit like you're a
1:03:43
Christian apologist, you're, you know, a Muslim apologist and
1:03:46
whatever, but it just means a rational defense of your faith.
1:03:48
But the way I came to my faith was not through because I didn't
1:03:51
grow up with the faith. The way I came through, it was
1:03:55
like head to heart instead of heart to head.
1:03:56
Most people kind of like feel this first.
1:03:59
And then and for some reason, I got really into all of these
1:04:02
debates online. And a lot of them had to do with
1:04:04
a lot of stuff we're talking about too, like what are the
1:04:06
proofs for God, the cosmological argument, ontological
1:04:10
theological argument. And so I got fascinated with all
1:04:13
of that stuff. And yeah, there's just, you
1:04:16
know, it's it's comforting to know that these questions have
1:04:18
been being asked for thousands of years.
1:04:20
And then equally, as, you know, uncomfortable to say that, well,
1:04:23
they leave me to a place where faith is the only answer to to
1:04:26
take a step. And it was it was interesting
1:04:27
when my son was young and I think most kids are like this,
1:04:31
but he had the ability to ask questions that outpace his
1:04:33
ability to understand the answers.
1:04:35
You know, so he would ask some big question about why are we
1:04:38
here? This is you can't hit an 8 year
1:04:40
old or five year old with the cosmological arguments as right.
1:04:44
And so, so I think as we grow and we mature, we become more
1:04:47
open to these ideas. And I think you see evidence of
1:04:49
that everywhere. And essentially we're all sort
1:04:51
of on this journey to even whether we know it or not to, to
1:04:54
find significance, to feel significance, to get those
1:04:57
questions answered. And so, yeah, anyway, that's
1:05:00
what that's my personal. What?
1:05:01
What do you? What do you think it is?
1:05:03
And this deep dive you've done, what do you think this reality
1:05:05
is? This reality, what I think this
1:05:08
reality is. I know it's kind of a loaded
1:05:10
question if you think about it. Yeah, because.
1:05:12
There's I think there's many different layers.
1:05:14
I think you can answer it scientifically by what you've
1:05:17
said so far. This, this, you know, collection
1:05:20
of, of, of matter. I don't know how we get to
1:05:25
consciousness. I love Mark Gober's approach on
1:05:27
it. When you introduced me to his
1:05:28
stuff as being something that you tune into versus something
1:05:31
that you possess that feels right, you know, and all the
1:05:34
stuff that he said, yeah. That that that we're receiving
1:05:37
consciousness versus just manifest that that resonance.
1:05:39
But again two things can be true at the same time because you
1:05:42
could have a damaged antenna. Yeah a damaged brain.
1:05:45
That's right. And so your experience of
1:05:47
consciousness is going to be very different.
1:05:49
I, I learned that Ted, I didn't know this actually, that there
1:05:53
are some women on earth who have 100 times as many photoreceptors
1:06:00
in their eyes than than than you and I do didn't know that.
1:06:03
And so there their view of reality, like we know from the
1:06:08
human experience that we can see very little of actually what
1:06:11
there is available to see. Like you and I can't see an
1:06:13
ultraviolet, at least not yet. We haven't gotten that
1:06:15
biological upgrade. And you know, and, and there's
1:06:19
many, many other things that we can't see.
1:06:21
We also can't hear nearly as much.
1:06:24
You know, my dogs have something like 5000 times the the, the
1:06:30
ability to smell then. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:06:32
So like, they can literally smell that spot.
1:06:34
And, you know, in their minds tells a story.
1:06:38
You know, it tells the story of like what happened days ago.
1:06:40
Yeah, probably not a story I want to know because.
1:06:43
He stopped. Doesn't involve the other.
1:06:44
Dogs can be pretty bad, yeah. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's
1:06:50
it's incredible that these women can they're they're walking
1:06:54
around experiencing 100 times the amount of colors that I.
1:06:56
AM and all the stuff that Gobert said in his book about, you
1:06:59
know, people that have special abilities and twins and, you
1:07:01
know, all that kind of stuff, you know, I'm not a scientist,
1:07:04
but seems to resonate with my experience.
1:07:06
So, you know, the question is what is this?
1:07:08
You know, I, I don't know the answer to that.
1:07:09
I, I think, you know, I think there's a, whatever it is,
1:07:14
there's a purpose to it and. Definitely, yeah, I've seen
1:07:19
that. And so I, I've had to, you know,
1:07:23
I, I guess where I've gotten to is like the, the big thing for
1:07:26
me is understanding that, you know, you, you're the main actor
1:07:30
in your play, in your movie. And that's very quantum whole
1:07:34
life, right? Yeah.
1:07:35
And, and then at some point, you know, whether it's kids or, or,
1:07:38
or purpose or, or, or something else, you tend to kind of end up
1:07:41
playing a smaller part in a bigger role.
1:07:43
And that's kind of how I view like where I'm at now, which is
1:07:47
like there's a there's a bigger plan than me and it's in motion.
1:07:51
And I want to know how I can be available to be part of that
1:07:54
plan. And then, you know, wait, wait
1:07:57
for the opportunities to be called into the game, so to
1:08:01
speak. And so the more.
1:08:03
That's a great attitude, honestly.
1:08:05
Yeah, and it's it lets you relieve some stress too.
1:08:10
And the more I think that way, the more I get called in.
1:08:12
Yes, you know, that is that is so well said.
1:08:15
I mean, that is very the Celestine Prophecy is a great
1:08:18
book along this journey. And you know, I want to profile
1:08:22
quite a bit in my book and I see synchronicities now multiple
1:08:27
times a day and it's and it's really beautiful.
1:08:30
Sometimes it's really funny, sometimes it's really profound.
1:08:35
Yeah, that just happens a lot. And, and when you, when you walk
1:08:39
that way in the world and you know, the way, the way I look at
1:08:44
that is it's divine being playful with us.
1:08:48
It's, it's prodding us. And you know, there, there's
1:08:51
been times in meditation where I've been able to hold it for a
1:08:54
very brief time, very, very brief time.
1:08:57
This is really this is I I've never been able to hold it for a
1:09:00
long period of time because it's so hard to contemplate that, you
1:09:04
know, we live in this world where there are trillions of
1:09:08
interactions happening in between 8.2 billion plus humans
1:09:14
and it's all meant to advance us and advance consciousness all at
1:09:21
the same time. And you know, it's, if you think
1:09:26
about it like a big, you know, quantum computer, it's like just
1:09:29
like insane amount of processing going on.
1:09:32
And I don't believe we're living in a simulation.
1:09:34
That's not what I'm saying. I love the conversation though.
1:09:36
Yeah, but it's. Like, you know, and, and, and
1:09:39
there's, there's all these things that that that nudges
1:09:44
that people get you, me, etcetera.
1:09:47
This, you know, what we're doing here that lead both of us to
1:09:51
grow and sometimes just happens because it's meant for that
1:09:55
person that's the observer to grow.
1:09:58
But it's all happening in this grand cosmic plan that I can't
1:10:04
understand. That's way beyond our
1:10:06
comprehension. Yeah.
1:10:07
But it's rooted deeply in love. Yeah.
1:10:10
That that I, that I, I've seen, I feel it's.
1:10:14
And that's, that's incredible. It's a video I watched a long
1:10:17
time ago where a guy's got a whiteboard in front of him.
1:10:20
He's explaining a bunch of different stuff and he says most
1:10:23
he draws a stick figure and he says most people think that you
1:10:28
live your life and draws an arrow and at the end of it you
1:10:31
go to heaven or hell. And then he draws a wave over
1:10:34
the line and he says, and most people think that if they spend
1:10:37
enough time up here above the line and not doing bad stuff, I
1:10:41
didn't do too bad or whatever and they can calculate that you
1:10:44
go heaven or hell. The only problem with that story
1:10:47
is it's you focused, it's not focused on how you fit into the
1:10:50
bigger plan, which was very resonant to me.
1:10:55
And so I, I have, you know, I think you've had this experience
1:10:58
too. But the, the more I have said,
1:11:00
OK, what do you need me to do? That type of thing.
1:11:04
I've found myself in situations that I'm not qualified to be in,
1:11:07
you know, to, to, to be somewhat of aid in some form or fashion.
1:11:11
So yeah, yeah, it's a. But to be of selfless service is
1:11:15
such a beautiful place to be, you know?
1:11:18
It is. It's really hard to do too.
1:11:20
It is really hard to do. It's really hard to do.
1:11:22
Yeah, it's really hard to calm the ego and yeah.
1:11:24
All of that, you know, it's I'm reading, I think you've probably
1:11:28
read it. Everybody else has read it.
1:11:30
I've never read it, but the Extreme Ownership book from
1:11:33
Jocko. I haven't read it.
1:11:34
Yeah, I own it because it was gifted to me.
1:11:38
Yeah. And there are many books that
1:11:40
are gifted to me that I've never read.
1:11:42
Yeah, but you know, the first time I ever heard his name was
1:11:47
Mike Maples Junior, who was on episode 20 of the podcast.
1:11:52
You know, he wrote the book Pattern Breakers.
1:11:54
He was a long time investor in US.
1:11:56
I met with him. Oh, yeah, That's right.
1:11:58
That's right. Yeah.
1:11:59
And so anyways, he he was the first one who recommended Jocko.
1:12:03
Yeah. And somebody said it to me,
1:12:04
well, the other day, the guy that I've come to know recently,
1:12:07
but he was like, because I was, he's a big, big Jocko guy.
1:12:10
And I was asked some questions about it and he was like, look,
1:12:14
man, the way I think about it is there's a there's, there's a,
1:12:16
there's truths and they exist here.
1:12:19
And that's just my lens to get to those truths is I like that,
1:12:23
you know, it resonates with me. And I thought that's an
1:12:25
interesting way to look at it. There's a set of truths.
1:12:28
And then, you know, however we choose to to access that is
1:12:32
interesting. Yeah, I mean, you know, Speaking
1:12:34
of faith, I mean, one of my it is an act of faith to even
1:12:41
contemplate that we can make it to this age of abundance for all
1:12:44
these are happening. Everything is happening for a
1:12:47
reason, including, you know, the darkness that that we see right
1:12:51
now. It's very hard to contemplate
1:12:54
that because, you know, the the part of the atheist argument,
1:12:59
which I'm clearly not an atheist, but is that if if there
1:13:04
is such a thing as God, why do bad things happens?
1:13:06
The. Problem of evil, right?
1:13:08
The problem of evil. And, you know, I'm Jewish and,
1:13:12
you know, obviously there was the Holocaust and that was
1:13:15
horrible. And a lot of people don't
1:13:17
realize that there are 16,000,000 Jews in the world
1:13:20
right now and 8.2 billion humans.
1:13:22
And that's the same population that we were pre Holocaust.
1:13:26
So it took like all that time just to get back to this number.
1:13:31
And and so, you know, but there's so much greatness in
1:13:36
humanity at the same time. Yeah.
1:13:39
And when, when, when things really get going, it's not like
1:13:44
we stayed in the Holocaust. You know, we were saved and it
1:13:49
was taught over and over again. Never again, never again, never
1:13:52
again. And so, you know, we're in this,
1:13:57
we're we're constantly getting hardened to be better.
1:14:01
And I think that you and I would agree if we could go back in
1:14:06
time 100 years ago or 200 years ago.
1:14:11
It was a time where we did not have the same ethics that we
1:14:16
have today. Like, I mean, if if you go back
1:14:19
250 years ago, 250 years ago, 90% of the world population
1:14:26
could not read and 80% was living in abject poverty.
1:14:31
That's just 250 years ago. And so, you know, somehow we
1:14:36
continue to muddle our way, right, To get to get better and
1:14:38
better. Yeah.
1:14:40
But that doesn't mean that you should look away from the
1:14:43
darkness if, if anything, like you should be like, hey, we're
1:14:47
better than that. Yeah, right.
1:14:48
And that's forces us to grow. Yeah.
1:14:51
That's, that's, that's, I think that's part of the cosmic game
1:14:55
is like for us to, to continue to transcend these moments to
1:15:00
get to be more and more like God.
1:15:03
If we're made in the image of God, then the whole point is to
1:15:08
be more and more like God. Now, whether or not we're made
1:15:10
in the image of God, we're all part of God is, is my, what I've
1:15:15
seen. And so we're, we're just, we all
1:15:17
have that divine spark. I I do think that we're, God
1:15:24
loves us unconditionally and wants us to transcend the
1:15:27
moment, like, yeah. And, and become what we're meant
1:15:31
to be, which is not a landlocked on a single planet species that
1:15:36
doesn't understand what most of the universe is made of and has
1:15:40
no freaking clue how to reconcile quantum science and
1:15:43
classical science. Because like we, yes, we're very
1:15:46
advanced in so many ways. Like, you know, Hallelujah for
1:15:50
science, like, you know, like what we're doing here, you know,
1:15:53
yeah, very, very much focused on the scientific breakthroughs
1:15:57
that allowed us to even have the electricity in this room,
1:15:59
etcetera. Yeah.
1:16:01
But you know, I had Peter Wang on this podcast and and I gave
1:16:07
this really artificially low number in my mind because he's
1:16:12
like super hardcore in the in the quantum science and he was
1:16:16
trained in that. He immigrated from Wuhan in
1:16:19
1984. He's the Co founder of Anaconda,
1:16:22
which is now on the unicorns in Austin.
1:16:25
And I said, Peter, I was like, maybe we know 2% of what we
1:16:29
could know with with science right now.
1:16:31
He's like Brett, It's like way less than 1%.
1:16:33
Like trust me, it's less than 1%, which kind of blew my mind.
1:16:36
Yeah, yeah. So we we have so and and, and
1:16:39
and that's one of the most beautiful things about humanity
1:16:42
is we're constantly curious and we'll never stop being curious.
1:16:45
Like, no matter how much abundance we have, there's a
1:16:48
universe that's so vast for us to explore if we can figure out
1:16:52
how to solve faster and lightspeed travel or
1:16:54
interdimensional travel. And it's just so much, so much.
1:16:57
I mean, that's what the lattice is all about, you know?
1:17:00
Yeah, I think, you know, I think we have the capability of an
1:17:05
incredible good and incredible evil in US, right.
1:17:08
And navigating that and understanding what framework you
1:17:12
put on that. I mean, when I struggled with
1:17:14
the problem of evil thing early on, like when I was exploring
1:17:17
all this and somebody gave me a really like short way to deal
1:17:21
with that. He's like, you take your kids to
1:17:24
the dentist. I was like, he's like, do they
1:17:26
like it? It's like, no, they hate it.
1:17:29
It's like, do they cry? Like, yeah, they cry.
1:17:30
He's like, why do you take them? You don't love them.
1:17:32
Like, oh, no, because it's good. They have to do that.
1:17:34
It's part of them like going to like, oh, oh, OK, All right.
1:17:39
I understand that. Like there's, you know, the book
1:17:40
in the Bible wrote a job is all about like stuff.
1:17:43
And so I do, I do agree with what you're saying is like,
1:17:45
there's some bigger plan here that, that, you know, it's so
1:17:48
funny you say this. I just sent my son was doing a
1:17:50
presentation the other night and I, I sent him a Garth Brooks
1:17:54
song that I haven't thought about forever, that sometimes I
1:17:56
thank God for unanswered prayers, but it's the truth.
1:17:59
You know, it's like sometimes we don't know what's best for us
1:18:01
and we have to go through some things.
1:18:03
And I, I believe that firmly, as hard as it is to walk in those
1:18:07
times. And the hardest ones that I'm
1:18:09
realizing are are, are are those that your duty is just to be
1:18:12
there and not solve it and just sit in the pain with somebody.
1:18:15
That's a tough place to be, but. It is, yeah.
1:18:18
Sometimes people just want to be heard and just loved
1:18:21
unconditionally and that's it. And you just need to be quiet
1:18:23
and say. Right.
1:18:25
I love you. Yeah.
1:18:26
So, yeah, I, I agree with everything in that part of the
1:18:29
conversation, everything you said after, which is like, you
1:18:32
know, we seem, we seem to be figuring it out and going
1:18:37
through learning experiences along the way and ending up in a
1:18:39
better place than we are. You know, I say that, but there
1:18:42
is a real risk there. Like civilizations have come and
1:18:44
gone right in the past. And so I don't know what it
1:18:48
looks like in the future, but I feel like we have to your point,
1:18:51
you know, a time of great responsibility ahead of us a
1:18:54
little bit with with this technology specifically so.
1:18:56
Yeah, yeah. How do you see it playing out?
1:18:58
I mean, put on the future as had because, you know, I know you're
1:19:01
pretty rooted in sci-fi and everything else.
1:19:03
Like, yeah, like, like how do you how do you see it playing
1:19:06
out? Because it's it's it's just it's
1:19:07
hard to fathom that we're barely past three years since the
1:19:11
launch of ChatGPT. I mean, Entropic is a 5 year old
1:19:16
company. Yeah.
1:19:17
You know, like, think about that like, yeah, like a company
1:19:22
literally goes from founding to to 30 billion revenue run rate
1:19:27
comes out with, I mean, this new model Mythos is like, yeah,
1:19:30
supposed to be just insanely powerful in terms of its ability
1:19:34
to find all the vulnerabilities and software.
1:19:37
You know, Ted, one person told me that's an investor in
1:19:41
Entropic that they put a 50 to $100 million price tag just to
1:19:49
say, look, if you want to use it now, that's.
1:19:51
There's $100 million that they invested to try to let them
1:19:53
find. You know, there's, there's this
1:19:54
debate on line about how much of that is marketing.
1:19:56
They said it would ChatGPT 3 when it came out how much it is.
1:19:59
It's true. I think Ethan Moloch weighed in
1:20:01
really nicely on it recently. He's like, I don't really care.
1:20:03
Like, is it a bad thing that we're testing these things?
1:20:06
We should go and should. We patch up vulnerabilities I.
1:20:08
Think we've I think what we've you know what where do I think
1:20:12
it goes look within a 24 hour period like a week ago, I had a
1:20:17
drone drop off a package in my yard and then I was in a car
1:20:20
that was driving itself like like this is a weird.
1:20:23
You're in The Jetsons. This is a weird time to think
1:20:26
that I'm seeing that. And you know, I, I said it to my
1:20:29
wife today, I was like, I would rather a Waymo than a regular
1:20:33
Uber ride. Like I prefer the technology.
1:20:36
So I think your point about quantum, quantum computing,
1:20:39
robotics and generative AI and everything else that's happening
1:20:42
there, those converging seems like it's going to level up
1:20:44
really quickly. You know, Elon talks about
1:20:47
everybody having a robot in their house and I so I think the
1:20:50
future is going to look vastly different.
1:20:52
I think I do think invention is going to accelerate.
1:20:57
I don't know how much of that curve looks like, I don't know
1:21:03
what it looks. I can't like see like every in
1:21:05
this world, we don't work. And then I really just like, we
1:21:08
know as part of our human nature that we feel like we have to
1:21:10
work, we have to create, we have to do things.
1:21:12
And so is that a good thing? If we end up where like just
1:21:14
everything's taken care of, then what's our significance?
1:21:16
And, and so I think it's going to be really interesting.
1:21:19
I, I, I, I don't know. I don't know.
1:21:22
Or is our significance defined by that?
1:21:24
I mean, I mean like, or is that, you know, is our actual
1:21:27
significance defined by our ability to create and explorer,
1:21:30
correct versus like, I mean, you know, I've been an entrepreneur
1:21:37
a long time, right, 30 years now.
1:21:39
Yeah. And I don't mean this in a
1:21:43
deprecating way. I actually mean this as a great
1:21:45
prayer for people. But I've met very few people in
1:21:50
my entire career of especially working with these big companies
1:21:54
because I've served big companies for a long, long time
1:21:57
as customers. It's kind of like they're,
1:22:00
they're a little small, nimble, you know, partner.
1:22:03
I've seen very few people that love their job.
1:22:06
Oh yeah. Very few, yeah.
1:22:08
And that to me always hurts my heart a little bit because, you
1:22:13
know, I didn't realize this until I was a parent.
1:22:16
But but my dad, everybody loved my dad.
1:22:20
You know, my dad unfortunately passed away at 63.
1:22:22
But he was like, larger in life figure, an amazing inventor.
1:22:26
And, you know, I would ask my friends back when I was young, I
1:22:32
was like, why do you think my dad, you know, because he's just
1:22:34
my dad, right? And they were like, well, you
1:22:38
know, quite a few of them told me, you know, my my dad
1:22:41
complaints about his job all the time, like, and that's where he
1:22:46
spends most of his time. Yeah.
1:22:47
And your dad, like, always has these funny stories and seems
1:22:50
like he's having a blast. And I didn't understand that
1:22:54
until I had children. And then.
1:22:56
And then I had this moment or I had children where I was like,
1:23:00
oh, I get it. You know, I need to walk the
1:23:05
path of joy in terms of what I do.
1:23:09
And they're going to see that and they're going to learn
1:23:12
through osmosis. And then they ultimately need to
1:23:16
find whatever the path is for them.
1:23:19
So I actually see the future of us getting into abundance as
1:23:23
one. You know, one of the one of the
1:23:24
typical capitalist push backs I get is right.
1:23:27
Are you just saying that people are just going to be like the
1:23:30
Bhutanese and just meditate all day?
1:23:33
And and I was always remind them I'm like, well, first of all,
1:23:37
you're assuming that's a bad thing.
1:23:39
The average person in Bhutan is way happier than the average
1:23:43
American. They prioritize in the country
1:23:46
the measure of gross national happiness.
1:23:50
And I can tell you having been there now with the family and
1:23:54
just seeing the way things roll there, people are really happy.
1:23:58
I mean, there was an American woman with us who was crying at
1:24:01
the end. She was like, I want to bring
1:24:03
this happiness and the soulfulness to America.
1:24:08
And their GDP of the entire country is 3 weeks of coffee in
1:24:12
the US. OK, So they prioritize
1:24:16
something. They they, they made a choice.
1:24:19
And is all of humanity going to do that?
1:24:21
No, because all there's so many aspects of humanity again, which
1:24:26
is infinitely curious. But if if people had more time
1:24:30
to practice like deep inner contentment, you know, deep
1:24:34
exploration of, you know, the soul meditation, why would that
1:24:39
be a bad thing? Why do we as capitalists look
1:24:42
down on that, you know, or look down on the fact that their GDP
1:24:46
is so small compared to ours? Like, I think, I think again,
1:24:51
two things can be true at the same time.
1:24:53
The American drive to create and like innovate and all that
1:24:56
stuff, push the world forward. Great, you know, the, the
1:25:01
hollowing out of the American mindset to be like, that's the
1:25:06
only thing that matters, Not great, you know, and, and, and
1:25:10
this constant like pushing us through advertising, through the
1:25:14
media, through social media to crave shit we don't need, you
1:25:18
know, etcetera. Like there is no chase to
1:25:21
external accumulation. We have this as humans, we have
1:25:26
this desire to create idols. We create, we create these
1:25:29
things that we if I have, if I do this, if I, then I'll be
1:25:32
happy. And we know it's true.
1:25:34
We like you see when the kids are little, I don't want this
1:25:35
thing so bad. And then, you know, my daughter
1:25:37
wanted a ninja creamy that made the ice cream really bad when
1:25:41
she was little. We got that she used it for like
1:25:42
2 weeks. Now she's on the next.
1:25:44
I've seen it in my mom as she continues to, you know, age and
1:25:47
she's asking questions about, you know, where's my fulfillment
1:25:51
come from a satisfaction. And and, you know, we have this
1:25:54
desire to put things in that position.
1:25:56
I think a lot of people do with work, right?
1:25:58
And, you know, there's a lot of reasons people don't like their
1:26:00
jobs. I mean, there's, you know, folks
1:26:01
that don't have any other options and they have to do this
1:26:03
thing or do that thing. And, and but it's when I think
1:26:06
the true discontentment comes from when you, you, you, you put
1:26:10
your identity in that thing and then that thing's not going the
1:26:13
way that it's supposed to be going.
1:26:15
And then you, you feel this like I'm, I'm not, and I struggle
1:26:19
with this a whole bunch, especially my, my 20s and stuff.
1:26:21
I struggle with, you know, if I could be the, the financial
1:26:24
advisor here and get this and do that and get that office, I'll
1:26:27
be happy. I'll be happy.
1:26:28
And so I'm familiar with the, the, the struggle.
1:26:32
And I think it's just over here. It's, you know, as compared to
1:26:36
some of the other places you've mentioned, it's just become part
1:26:38
of part of our our culture. And right, you know, you're
1:26:42
seeing some of the generations pull away from that a little
1:26:44
bit. Like who is I'm bad with this
1:26:46
generation then who's the one after US generation?
1:26:48
That why, you know, it used to be like, if you want to motivate
1:26:51
them, it's not money, it's time off and autonomy, right.
1:26:54
And so you're seeing some of it, you know, show up in different
1:26:57
places. But yeah, I think we all would
1:27:00
benefit from more introspection and deep thinking about what
1:27:05
truly makes us happy and brings happiness.
1:27:07
Yeah. Or at least at least having the
1:27:08
ability to do that, not being in such a race of programming that
1:27:14
it's like, well, I need to do this and I need to do that.
1:27:17
I mean, you know, part of the reason our birth rate is has
1:27:21
declined is because people are working so much that they don't
1:27:27
feel like they can have children And, and then prices have
1:27:33
skyrocketed to the point where they can't afford a home,
1:27:36
etcetera. And they're like, well, I don't
1:27:37
want to bring a kid into this. I can't even afford a home and
1:27:41
and it's just it's just this massive accumulation.
1:27:43
So so the way abundance, I think it's going to play out here,
1:27:48
especially once we solve energy like, you know, again, the gate
1:27:52
we've got to pass through is like science needs to be
1:27:55
automated and then we'll pass through so many gates so
1:27:59
quickly. At that point, you know, we'll
1:28:01
be you and I will be, you know, we're in the generation where
1:28:05
remember life before the Internet.
1:28:07
We're also in the generation where remember life before
1:28:10
mobile. We're also in the generation
1:28:11
where remember life before social media, etcetera.
1:28:15
And now the one that remembers life before AI.
1:28:18
But these next generations, it's going to be like every one or
1:28:22
two years or they're like, you remember then before we had like
1:28:26
unlimited energy? Or do you remember when we
1:28:28
actually had diseases? People drove cars.
1:28:31
Right. Yeah, there's just so much at
1:28:33
stake. I mean, there is such great
1:28:35
responsibility in this moment because there's so much at stake
1:28:37
in terms of where we can get to and and it's always been our
1:28:41
destiny as humanity to make our lives easier, more meaningful,
1:28:48
etcetera, through the use of technology.
1:28:51
So. Since they invented fire.
1:28:53
Yeah. The hammer exactly right.
1:28:55
We've we've, we've, we've done that's what I mean, our track
1:28:57
records pretty good without, you know, you know, there's been
1:29:01
lots of not great stuff along the way.
1:29:04
You know, I, I don't, I don't think we've seen yet on the AI
1:29:08
side. We've seen small little things
1:29:09
happen like, you know, attacks using AI to hack things and that
1:29:13
I mean, I hope we can avoid, you know, any, any, any big, you
1:29:17
know, hiccup with this one along the way because of the
1:29:19
potential. Yeah, yeah.
1:29:21
So, yeah, yeah, part of part of what you have to assume, I mean,
1:29:25
the argument is, you know, a very small number of people
1:29:29
could cause great destruction. But it's Byron Reset.
1:29:33
And I think that was episode 11 of the podcast.
1:29:36
He said, he said that that was also true in the days of the
1:29:40
small medieval villages because someone could have thrown a dead
1:29:43
goat into the well and poisoned all the water for the
1:29:46
townspeople And and somehow almost all of the time that
1:29:50
didn't happen. So.
1:29:52
So it really is, you know, it's it's kind of like a mirror.
1:29:54
Like how positive or negative are you about humanity?
1:29:58
And there are many people including like what's happening
1:30:01
here with Anthropic And you know, maybe we look as
1:30:04
marketing, maybe we don't who are like, hey, we got to we got
1:30:08
to get you really leveled up right now because what's coming,
1:30:11
you know, everybody's going to have access to technology is
1:30:14
powerful. And if you have all these
1:30:15
security vulnerabilities, So actually be that as a very
1:30:18
positive thing. I mean, I'm sure they do too
1:30:20
from a revenue perspective. But you know, but look, that's
1:30:24
capitalism. I mean, they have something that
1:30:26
nobody else in the world has right now and there is a market
1:30:30
price for it and the market price is very high because of
1:30:34
how good it is if it wasn't that good market price.
1:30:36
We wouldn't be talking about it. Yeah.
1:30:38
You know, I was at a dinner one time, we were talking about all
1:30:41
of this stuff and the the conversation between.
1:30:42
Hey, there's so much similar, you know, like your example that
1:30:46
you just gave like a small amount of people could have
1:30:47
thrown a goat into the well. And.
1:30:50
And so a lot of this is so familiar just with technological
1:30:53
advancement that, you know, every conversation that comes up
1:30:56
we can put into a bucket that we've had this conversation
1:31:00
before. But what was explained to me was
1:31:01
that, like, the difference here is the pace at which it's
1:31:03
happening. It's so fast.
1:31:05
Like when the railroads came around, it was like, you know, a
1:31:07
dad telling his kid in in 20 years, don't do this job, you
1:31:11
know, right. And now it's 18.
1:31:13
It's such a, a faster clip. And so maybe that's the
1:31:16
adjustment that we need. To make it's the pace and it's
1:31:18
the, and it's the scale as well because, because you know, I've,
1:31:22
I've actually felt this for a long time as a technologist, I'm
1:31:24
like, Oh my gosh, we're making the whole world digitize and
1:31:27
we're doing that because it's much faster and everything else.
1:31:30
But the, the challenge with that is it, it is, it makes it like
1:31:35
more hackable. But I actually view that as
1:31:39
well, like speaking back to, you know, consciousness as part of
1:31:43
the divine's way of saying, look, you're going to have
1:31:46
power. That's so vastly more than you
1:31:49
can imagine now that you got to figure out how to allow love to
1:31:52
conquer fear. I mean, one of the one, this
1:31:55
one, the push backs always have on people that believe that Uaps
1:32:00
are here, etcetera. Which look, I, I, I met a guy
1:32:04
recently that that has seen that himself.
1:32:09
He seems completely stable, sane, etcetera.
1:32:14
But, but I, I always challenge them with this and, and they
1:32:17
usually agree with me. Look, if they're here, then that
1:32:21
means they know how to travel faster than lightspeed or
1:32:24
interdimensionally, which means by definition that they will
1:32:27
have faster and lightspeed weapons or interdimensional
1:32:30
weapons if they so chose. And they had to get to a point
1:32:37
where love conquered fear because they would not, they
1:32:42
would have already destroyed themselves many times over.
1:32:45
Like if you can, if if we can solve faster and lightspeed
1:32:48
travel, yeah, Then as humanity, that means that we can create
1:32:52
faster and lightspeed weapons. So if we create that.
1:32:56
We have to have gotten through that gate.
1:32:58
We'd have to have gotten through that gate.
1:32:59
It is. It's like gates.
1:33:00
You know, it is. It must sound like a simulation
1:33:03
theorist. I don't mean it like that at
1:33:04
all, but it is like gates and a video game, yes.
1:33:07
It's like you got to clear that level.
1:33:08
You've got to clear that level to level up.
1:33:10
And humanity continues to level. Up.
1:33:12
What do you think the most challenging gate is for us to
1:33:15
clear? I think I think that we're at, I
1:33:18
think we're at the most challenging time right now.
1:33:20
I mean, I mean, right now, you know, you've probably heard me
1:33:25
say this, but I'll say it for the benefit of people that may
1:33:29
haven't heard it yet. You know, we have 13,000 nuclear
1:33:33
weapons on Earth today, not just America of all the countries
1:33:38
combined. And you probably know the answer
1:33:41
to this because I know you listen to the podcast.
1:33:42
But but what, what percentage of those do you think it would take
1:33:46
to wipe out humanity almost completely and send us into a
1:33:50
nuclear winter for a decade? You know how to.
1:33:53
Calculate the percentage, but I would answer 1.
1:33:55
That's two percent, 2%, Yeah. OK.
1:33:57
So we have 50 times the amount. Yeah, yeah.
1:33:59
And what we choose to call this as humanity is mutually assured
1:34:04
destruction, an acronym for that is MAD.
1:34:07
And so we have a very highly developed amygdala where we have
1:34:12
created real weapons. They're not little toy guns that
1:34:16
have destructive power that we saw in Hiroshima and Nagasaki
1:34:20
that we really try to contain. That's why there's a war right
1:34:24
now going on with Iran. And this is, this is a serious
1:34:31
risk. I mean, and, and, and somehow
1:34:33
we've managed to not hit that moment, but there were moments
1:34:37
where it was really close. I had I had Pippa Mahmgren on
1:34:40
the podcast and her father was in the room during the Cuban
1:34:44
missile Crisis where calls were made to family members saying
1:34:48
start driving to Maine right now, right.
1:34:53
And she's like, and her dad was in that room and it ended in
1:34:57
hugs. And it ended in hugs actually
1:34:59
between US and the Russians too, But it was close.
1:35:03
Yeah. Right.
1:35:03
And so, so that this, that that's a that's a, that's a real
1:35:09
risk is that we, you know, we have, we have, you know, the
1:35:13
whole, you know, claw code, you know, clawbot thing taking off,
1:35:18
etcetera. Open claw.
1:35:19
He was, he was actually one of the Ted speakers this year.
1:35:22
Oh, really? That talk's already live.
1:35:23
Yeah. Peter Stein.
1:35:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty funny.
1:35:27
Like the comedian that closed out Ted, they always closed it
1:35:30
out with a comedian. She's like, it's very
1:35:33
inappropriate, but she said, OK, he's Austrian.
1:35:38
He's like built like a tank. Like he's like super muscular
1:35:42
and he's constantly laughing. She's like one of these three
1:35:46
characteristics has to go of all three.
1:35:51
She's like, because he's manifesting this agent, you
1:35:54
know, So it was, it was a really funny moment.
1:35:57
But you know, we've got we've got AI agents that can be used
1:36:03
for for bad by terrorists, etcetera.
1:36:05
And that's again the mythos moment here with anthropic
1:36:08
retrofit everything and massively upgrade things.
1:36:11
We have a gate. After we walk through the AGI
1:36:15
gate, we have the quantum computing gate which is going to
1:36:19
rapidly speed up everything like to point.
1:36:22
You can't even calculate. You can't even calculate it
1:36:24
right. It was two years ago when I was
1:36:27
at Ted where Harmat Nevin on stage was like the only way we
1:36:32
can figure out, hypothesize what's happening here at Google
1:36:36
in terms of why this working is it must be computing in a
1:36:39
different dimension. Yeah, for the.
1:36:41
And I'm like, that can't be the answer.
1:36:45
Which one? Right, Right.
1:36:47
And but, but I mean, you know, you probably heard me say this
1:36:52
like when the Willow chip came out last year, it could perform
1:36:56
a calculation in 5 minutes that a standard computer, which is
1:37:01
depend on ones and zeros versus qubits.
1:37:03
You know, qubits are the quantum chips.
1:37:06
Yep, would take 730 trillion times the known age of the
1:37:12
universe to make the calculation.
1:37:14
How do you? It doesn't work in my brain.
1:37:16
Like put it right, How do you? Yeah, it's 10 to the septillion.
1:37:20
It's 10 to that 25th power, Yeah.
1:37:22
So what we do with it is is great.
1:37:26
Like, yeah, it's. Just like, like we need to do a
1:37:29
lot of simulation modeling of the world, whether it comes to
1:37:32
weather, disease, all, all types of potential outcomes and
1:37:36
quantum computer and make that fast.
1:37:38
Yeah. And then and then, you know,
1:37:41
again, combined with the scientific breakthrough moment
1:37:43
of of hopefully where we'll get to with AGI.
1:37:47
Yeah. So we can decode all types of
1:37:49
scientific things that have really plagued us and challenged
1:37:53
us. You know, I mean, think about
1:37:55
what alpha fold alone allows for drug discovery.
1:37:58
Yep. So the quantum computing will be
1:38:01
the next gate. Yeah.
1:38:03
And then and then, you know, the next gate after that hard to
1:38:07
hard to hard to that's where. I get that's where my brain
1:38:09
breaks. Is, I mean, there's brain
1:38:11
computer interfaces, which is going to be a big gate.
1:38:13
But once you get to quantum computing, quantum.
1:38:15
Computing is a big one, you know, because then you then you
1:38:18
have, then you have AGI powered quantum computing powered
1:38:23
robots. And yeah, it's, I mean, yeah,
1:38:27
it's going. To be is it?
1:38:28
That's all in the next 10 to 15. Years, is it Kerswell that said
1:38:31
this? He doesn't need to find the
1:38:32
singularity is when we'll have access to all compute power and
1:38:36
knowledge in our brain, is it? Didn't he say?
1:38:38
Well, his his subtitle for the singular is nearer is when we
1:38:42
merge with AII. Don't know what I think about
1:38:46
that. Like, like, I personally don't
1:38:50
think that will choose to merge with AI, think will choose to
1:38:54
treat it as the Super powerful tool.
1:38:56
Yeah. You know, Elon Musk said a year
1:39:01
ago something pretty crass. It really hurt my heart when he
1:39:05
said this. He said humanity is nothing more
1:39:09
than the biological bootloader for the future of digital super
1:39:12
intelligence, which basically means we're just evolutionary
1:39:15
stepping stone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:39:16
Yeah, a lot of people are talking about that, yeah.
1:39:18
Yeah. And so I that that to me is very
1:39:22
sad because it's like, oh, you really don't think we matter at
1:39:25
all as humanity or we're just like, you know, just something
1:39:28
to be stepped on like an Ant and then, you know, and then
1:39:31
transcended. But but Kurzweil, he, he does
1:39:36
hypothesize in the book, you know, chapter 3 of that book,
1:39:41
which is called Who am I? He hypothesizes that we'll be
1:39:44
able to upload our brains. This is where I was getting.
1:39:46
To and that's but that's a very materialist view, because that
1:39:49
means that that the big debate on are we nothing more than
1:39:53
biological machines, which means consciousness comes, you know,
1:39:57
manifest from our brains. Everything about us can be
1:40:00
replicated. If that's the case, then by
1:40:05
definition we will have. We will figure out a way to
1:40:09
replicate everything and we will have robots that are every bit
1:40:12
as conscious as we are, that if we choose that have super
1:40:17
powerful capabilities, whether it's, you know, strength,
1:40:20
intelligence. And I just, I just don't, I just
1:40:24
don't believe that that's the way it'll play out.
1:40:26
I mean, I, you know, I hypothesize in the lattice that
1:40:30
that the, the point in time where AI gets to be as conscious
1:40:34
as we are is like in the 20 fifties that we've, we've
1:40:38
already passed through the gates of great responsibility.
1:40:41
So it's like we're, we're kind of like worthy.
1:40:44
We made it. We made it right and and and and
1:40:47
and we've, we, we figured out how to align AI in a way where
1:40:53
it, it's as loving as its core as we can be.
1:40:57
Yeah. The the direction I was kind of
1:40:58
headed with that is like it's more in lines with, I mean, Sam
1:41:02
Altman, I think talked recently about, you know, metering
1:41:05
intelligence or knowledge, you know, metering intelligence, I
1:41:08
think, you know, based on how much you can pay for it.
1:41:12
But in this world where and other others have said it where,
1:41:14
where intelligence is democratized and knowledge is
1:41:16
democratized and we have access to it, you know, does that
1:41:19
fundamentally change the way that we just interact as people
1:41:21
too? Like, am I not explaining things
1:41:23
to you anymore? Am I just saying a word and you
1:41:26
you can understand all of this? And so I'm interested in sort of
1:41:29
what is that world where, I mean, it's, we still have the
1:41:33
fundamental problem of like people have to want the
1:41:36
knowledge, they have to want to, to, to bring that in.
1:41:39
So but yeah, the, the, we know the future of work is going to
1:41:42
change. We know, you know, the, the
1:41:44
world around us is going to change.
1:41:45
I wonder how the human interactions are going to
1:41:47
change, if anything, if we head down.
1:41:49
I mean, I think, I think the, the, the, the very simplistic
1:41:53
definition is that everything needs to, you know, the, the way
1:41:57
I conclude the book is the heart has to conquer the head.
1:42:00
That that basically we need to lead from a place of love.
1:42:04
And that when we're at our highest, that's how we lead,
1:42:07
whether it's leading a company, whether it's leading a non
1:42:09
profit, whatever it is, whether it's leading, you know, a
1:42:12
government agency or a country is leading from a place of love.
1:42:17
And that is the highest vibratory force in the universe.
1:42:22
And you can actually see it. I mean, in, in, you know, in
1:42:25
science experiments, like when you play to a plant, like super
1:42:30
destructive, you know, sound versus beautiful, loving sound
1:42:35
and tell, tell the plant a plant that you love it.
1:42:38
And this is actually in Michael Pollan's book a world appears as
1:42:41
well, his new book on consciousness.
1:42:44
But seeing the videos and seeing how this actually plays out on
1:42:47
scientific experience, it's pretty ethereal.
1:42:50
Like to see. And so that we know that that's
1:42:53
the, that, that that's what, you know, the creator God, whatever
1:42:57
you call that, you know, consciousness wants for us is to
1:43:01
align around love. And again, it's an act of faith.
1:43:06
I mean, it all comes back to an act of faith if the divine is
1:43:09
working through US and ultimately what's happening is
1:43:13
happening for a reason. And as much progress as we've
1:43:18
had and like we said 250 years ago, etcetera, like for us to
1:43:23
make it to the next 250 and beyond, or if you take our
1:43:27
evolutionary time, the next 300,000 years is Homo sapiens
1:43:31
with a, with a sun that's apparently going to last another
1:43:33
billion years. Pretty infinite light source for
1:43:36
us to plug into. We we have to pass through, you
1:43:40
know, quite, quite a few gates. And the current way that we're
1:43:44
playing these games that can't hold with technology is
1:43:48
powerful. I mean, that's why I'm doing
1:43:49
what I'm doing. Yeah.
1:43:51
It really is. It's like what I'm doing is me
1:43:55
having an act of love towards humanity, a prayer to be part of
1:44:00
the light for us to make it. I mean, that's why I'm, that's
1:44:02
why I'm doing what I'm doing. Yeah.
1:44:04
You know, it's I want us to make it you.
1:44:05
Know, yeah. I know that we all want us to
1:44:08
make it, but it's what do we do to make sure that we can?
1:44:11
And it's an age-old battle of good versus evil, love versus
1:44:15
hate, and. I love that episode of Byron
1:44:18
Reese where he's like, look, don't put this huge burden on
1:44:22
yourself for for all the all the people on the planet.
1:44:25
Like we all have different roles.
1:44:26
He's like, if everybody just practiced everyday acts of
1:44:29
kindness, that would be enough. Yeah.
1:44:31
Like we'd make it 100%. Yeah, just with that.
1:44:34
Yeah. So I like, I like that.
1:44:37
But you know, I view that what I'm doing now is like this is
1:44:40
this is, this is the role I have.
1:44:42
I saw it percolating up, you know, in 2025 and we, you
1:44:45
mentioned that trip in the beginning.
1:44:46
We had a 20 minute conversation that most people wouldn't have
1:44:50
in a after a business meeting on the way to the airport about
1:44:54
theology and, and the state of the world and all that.
1:44:57
So I've seen you go through it and it's, it's neat to see, you
1:45:00
know? Yeah, to, to, to be, to be doing
1:45:02
this because we, you know, we, we, we, we, we need to have the
1:45:07
right people thinking about the right things and bring up the
1:45:09
right conversations. And I'm a fan of this technology
1:45:12
for what it's done for my, you know, career and, and then what
1:45:15
I get to do every day with it. It's cool to work with and help
1:45:17
people. And then I'm just super
1:45:19
interested. I do like it.
1:45:21
I do like, you know, people ask me, you know, what have you been
1:45:23
reading or what type of books do you like to read?
1:45:26
Very specific, like near future dystopian science, sci-fi.
1:45:30
And so I'm very interested in in this space and so.
1:45:34
Well, you're not going to get that from the lattice because
1:45:36
that's that's near future non dystopian sci-fi dystopian.
1:45:39
It's like. Positive exactly so yeah it it's
1:45:43
it's it's fascinating and I love the conversation around it and
1:45:48
there's. One, and you're you're part of
1:45:49
the awakening too, you know, we all are because what you're
1:45:53
doing in these companies where you're helping people see the
1:45:56
potential and you're unleashing joy.
1:45:58
Yeah, like that's that's a beautiful act of love as well.
1:46:02
Like that's I mean, that's really cool.
1:46:04
Like, yeah, you're you're giving people an experience for the
1:46:07
first time in their life that is going to reframe the way they
1:46:12
even look at the nature of their work.
1:46:14
Yeah. And that to me is.
1:46:16
Super exciting and just also, you know, not even people that
1:46:18
fit in our client, you know, ICP like just other folks that you
1:46:22
bump into like, hey, have you tried this?
1:46:23
Do you know, you could do that? Watching my, my son put together
1:46:26
his great example two nights ago.
1:46:29
He's going through his, his PowerPoint presentation.
1:46:31
Well, the way he put it together was using Claude code in the
1:46:35
desktop app where he did his research back and forth, formed
1:46:37
the narrative, created an outline document, came back how
1:46:40
to create the slides, work back and forth and remove this slide.
1:46:43
No one needs to talk more about this.
1:46:44
And by the time he got up to present, he was way more
1:46:47
prepared in a shorter amount of time and knew more about that
1:46:50
topic than he he had done it the old way.
1:46:52
And it was amazing to see that compression happen and sort of
1:46:55
just him do it by itself. He just, I showed him a few
1:46:58
things and he goes on. And so that as a, as a very
1:47:01
micro example, what other people are finding in the workplace and
1:47:03
just in their life is, you know, my wife had an aha moment too.
1:47:08
She came back from I was meeting her at the at the restaurant and
1:47:13
she walked in. She wasn't in a great mood.
1:47:15
And I was like, what's wrong? And she's like, I spent all day
1:47:17
working on the spreadsheet and I already got an e-mail saying
1:47:21
something's not right with it. And I have no idea what's wrong.
1:47:23
Can you help me out? And I was like, spreadsheet,
1:47:26
it's not right. I'll give it a shot.
1:47:28
And so we sat down and she started saying words I didn't
1:47:32
understand. And she was showing me stuff.
1:47:33
And I was like, hold on. I took a picture of it.
1:47:34
And I was like, hey, what's the e-mail say?
1:47:36
And I took a picture of that, just loaded it up in the ChatGPT
1:47:39
and just said, hey, what's going on here?
1:47:41
This person is saying this is wrong.
1:47:42
We can't find it. And it gave us the row and
1:47:44
column because we took like some formulas and stuff.
1:47:46
And my wife just looked at me like, are you kidding me?
1:47:50
Like when she had that moment. But the beautiful moment is your
1:47:53
wife finally appreciated what you're doing for once.
1:47:57
Oh my gosh, I know that moment. You know, Deborah and I are
1:47:59
about to celebrate 30 years of marriage.
1:48:01
Congrats, man. Yeah.
1:48:02
We're going 25. Yeah, yeah.
1:48:04
I'll take a attaboy from her wherever I can get it.
1:48:06
So. But then watching her, that
1:48:08
spark her, her interest, and then going on and trying to
1:48:10
learn now how how to do this stuff is yeah, is is super cool.
1:48:14
So that's awesome. Yeah.
1:48:15
I got so many stories like that, but yeah.
1:48:17
Well, I really, really love this.
1:48:19
That's fun. This is so much fun.
1:48:21
Yeah, and you know, let's do it again in the future.
1:48:24
When? When?
1:48:25
I mean, you know, a couple of years from now it'll be who
1:48:27
knows what's going on? Yeah, you're.
1:48:29
From now, yeah, who knows, It's going to be wild.
1:48:31
So I appreciate you having me. You've been a good friend over a
1:48:33
long time. And.
1:48:35
You've been you've been amazing to work.
1:48:36
With Yep, you've helped me, you've helped me in a lot of
1:48:38
different ways and so it's appreciated and and thank you
1:48:40
for having me It's. Mutual, man.
1:48:41
Yeah. Love you, brother.
1:48:43
Appreciate it. Thank you so much.
1:48:44
Yeah, well, thanks everybody for tuning in to another episode of
1:48:48
Love Conquers Fear. I love that conversation with
1:48:51
Brandon, he's such a great guy. Definitely check out his
1:48:54
business. I'll put a link in the show
1:48:57
notes. Godochi Consulting.
1:48:59
Also good follow on LinkedIn. He's putting really good content
1:49:03
out there. Really appreciate all the love
1:49:05
you're sending my way. Literally right before recording
1:49:08
this I got this beautiful message via LinkedIn where
1:49:14
someone sent me a private message on how much love
1:49:17
conquers fear has really been moving them and their heart and
1:49:20
that means the world to me. So keep that coming, I really
1:49:24
appreciate it. Share this with a friend.
1:49:26
There's no ads on here. This is all self funded and
1:49:30
thank you so much for the support team.
1:49:33
Humanity all the way.