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Transcript

183: The Stanley Parable · The #Backlog Breakdown

• 0:43
  Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Backlog Breakdown, a video game podcast where we seek to encourage and equip the church to engage the medium of video games wisely and responsibly. I'm one of your hosts, Nate, and with me today is my co host, my friend, my brother in Christ, Joshua. Hey, Josh.
• 1:03
  I'm Josh. Hello.
• 1:04
  You are Josh.
• 1:05
  Good evening.
• 1:06
  You know, I was gonna, I had this like, bit that I was thinking about doing.
• 1:11
  Yeah.
• 1:11
  But I decided not to do it because we're gonna be talking about the Stanley parable tonight, folks. And I was gonna do like sort of a narrator bit thing, but I didn't. So I, I, when I got to that door, I chose the other one.
• 1:27
  Yeah, you used your faculties of choice. Nate used his faculties of choice to choose the doll that included not doing a bit about doing the bit.
• 1:41
  Yeah, I thought about it, but it was like.
• 1:43
  Meanwhile, Josh tried to do a little bit of a bit the, the narrator.
• 1:48
  Bit and failed miserably.
• 1:50
  Miserably. Horribly.
• 1:53
  He retreated into a self extension, self existential pile of shame and dread never to re. Emerge.
• 2:01
  I'm trying to think of a British insult that I can call myself, but the only ones that come to mind are like much worse words in American.
• 2:09
  British. British swears.
• 2:11
  Yeah, exactly. Where they, you know, they're not that offensive when, when you say them in a British way, but in American. Yeah.
• 2:19
  Dude, there are things that the British say that were like, oh, that's a, that's a nasty word. And they're just like, they just like, they're like, they call their best friend that like, right.
• 2:31
  Doesn't.
• 2:32
  I'm like, oh.
• 2:34
  Anyways, we're not going to get too British until a little bit later in the episode because we're talking like you just mentioned, Stanley parable is where we're going today.
• 2:45
  Yeah.
• 2:46
  It's going to be fun.
• 2:47
  It's going to be, it will be fun. Hopefully it will be fun and funny probably. Yeah. Because yeah, the saintly parable is kind of funny.
• 2:59
  Yeah.
• 3:00
  But yeah, we'll see. We'll see. That was terrible. I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have said that. That was stupid. And I feel bad for even.
• 3:07
  Like Nate regrets the things that he said while talking into immediately. Yeah.
• 3:14
  He wishes he had never opened his mouth.
• 3:18
  But all that there is is to.
• 3:20
  Go forward and if you guys are listening to this and saying like, what are they going on about? Obviously, like, it's, it's sort of a bit on what the Stanley parable kind of does. And like this is one of those games that when we get to it, guys, if you haven't played it, if you own it and you haven't played it, stop play the game a few times, spend a few hours with it. A playthrough is not super long. It will give you a greater appreciation for the conversation that we're going to have later. And if you have never played it, consider picking it up because it's, it's not that expensive most of the time. You can find it. You know, that's great radio time. I'm just going to check something real quick and we're going to. Because I don't.
• 4:15
  It's. It's such an old game. I know. Like the original release. I don't know if they still continue to.
• 4:20
  So $15 for the base version. The Ultra Deluxe version is 24 or 25 on Steam.
• 4:29
  There you go.
• 4:31
  And there's a demo for free.
• 4:33
  Okay.
• 4:34
  I don't know what the demo includes or doesn't include. So yeah, it's. It's a fairly accessible game. So. And it's, it's not super long.
• 4:44
  Right.
• 4:45
  So.
• 4:45
  Right.
• 4:48
  Yeah, but, but yeah, but Josh, we're going to talk about that later, but for now I would like to know. It has been, or rather it's been. It's been. Yes, that. An undisclosed amount of time since we last spoke. How have you been, my friend?
• 5:05
  Yeah, in the interval.
• 5:07
  Since in the interval.
• 5:09
  Right, right. Within the two weeks as you talk to me. It has been good actually. Yes. Busy. But you know, that's. That's just life. That's. That's life in America. Right. I was actually just talking to someone earlier. Is that. Yes, I do feel busy a lot of the time, but also I'm one of those people that like I. If I don't feel busy, then I feel lazy, if that makes sense. You know, like if I don't do anything and I feel like, oh, maybe I should be using my time better and getting other stuff done. So. So it is self inflicted is all that I'm saying. But anyways, just a couple of things that happened since we last talked is that softball started up again. I'm in a church softball league and that is a lot of fun. And although my legs are sore, I am not injured. After the first game, we won both our games, which is, which is a lot of fun. Crazy wind. I mean like dust stormed wind. It started raining. It was, it was super cold. It was, it was absolutely insane. But we still had a good time. And not quite as sore as I was last year. Last year it was, it was a very big slap in the face of like, hey, dude, you're in your mid-30s now. You shouldn't be, you shouldn't, you can't.
• 6:26
  Like, you can't be fooling around with these things, man.
• 6:29
  Yes. Yeah. And this time around, like, yes, definitely sore and definitely more sore two days in rather than the next day, but much more manageable. So I feel pretty good about it. So, so that, that's been fun doing, doing the softball thing and then this, this weekend as of recording. So I guess this will be last weekend after the release is Easter and so lots that goes into that.
• 6:57
  It's a big weekend.
• 6:58
  Yeah, we got a good Friday service going on and then we've got our Easter service on Sunday. So looking forward to a great time. We actually, we actually were given some steaks by some friends who, who they, they went in with some other friends and they bought the meat of a cow and so they've had tons of beef and, and they gave us some steaks. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to be cooking up some steaks for Easter. Kids will have ham, but mom and dad are having steaks. So anyways, less to look forward to in addition to celebrating resurrection, you know, that's probably the most important thing. But yeah, doing good.
• 7:41
  The meat is a pleasant second.
• 7:43
  Yes. And it's definitely like while, while I'm super excited for Sunday just being in leadership, it's like there's also a little bit of nervousness about, you know, or anxiousness, you know, and so the stake is like the, the finish line kind of a thing, you know?
• 8:05
  Yeah.
• 8:05
  Like, while I'm very excited to go through it, it go through Sunday morning, it's also like once you get through it, then there's steak too. So it's just celebrations all around. There's steak, then there's steak. So hopefully I don't screw it up. No, it'll be great. It'll be great. How about you? How you been, dude?
• 8:24
  Doing pretty good for the most part. I have, I don't know if I had mentioned this, but I ended up like jury rigging our Jeep Liberty so that we.
• 8:35
  Oh, nice.
• 8:36
  Yeah, I, I ripped out the, the, the back latch accompanying like guts out of the back door and.
• 8:50
  Okay.
• 8:51
  Then I took a bunch of basically weed eater cord and I kind of like bound everything together.
• 9:01
  Okay.
• 9:03
  And yeah, so I, it's my, the, the interior lights are on whenever I'm driving.
• 9:12
  Okay.
• 9:15
  We don't Drive at night with one. But. But. And. And I have an inspection on that till July, so that. That definitely gives us some time. And then. So, yeah, we. We've got that going for us. We. We actually last weekend went out to my parents for a few days, and it was good. It was, you know, kind of. We spent a little bit of time with Byron's bio family because they're sort of out in that. That general vicinity, and that was interesting. It was mostly good, you know, but, yeah, it. So we did that. And then we. We spent, you know, a good chunk of Saturday and Sunday with my. My parents and my brother. And my brother brought his. My. My sister and her husband. They. They came over Saturday night, and my brother Luke Deuce brought his kids and, you know, they. So they all came over and they were all able to, like, you know, Byron's able to interact with all of them. And then Sunday, you know, went to church with my parents. It was. It was kind of weird. I've got to be honest. I'm pretty sure they're going to an aog, like an Assemblies of God church.
• 10:39
  Yeah.
• 10:40
  And so it's whatever, but it's like, I think every time that I go to church with my parents, I just. There's something in there that just kind of like. But it was a. A female preaching, and I was just like. And I just. At one point, I'm like, Byron was getting fussy, and I just use that as an excuse to, like, vacate my dad. And I had a conversation after that where I was just like, listen, like, if this is where you guys are and you're happy and this, you know, I'm glad for you. I just can't. I can't be a party to that. Like, I don't think that's. I don't think that, like. But it wasn't like a bad conversation. But, yeah, and. Yeah, just things had a. Had a. The opportunity on Monday to just, like, I stayed home from work and Byron went into daycare, and I just got like, a bunch of stuff knocked out so that had. Needed to be taken care of. But it's like when you're like, all my days off, like, I'm busy doing dad mode stuff, so it's like, there's never time to do anything else. So that was. I mean, it was. It was good. But yeah, so, yeah, it's. It's been good. It's just like, I had a day. What's that?
• 12:16
  Go, go, go.
• 12:17
  Yeah, and it was like, it was nice just to have Like, a day where I could actually get stuff done. Like, I don't. I. I don't feel like I've gotten one of those in a long time where it's like. Yeah, like, when I'm home with him, it's just like, you kind of just work around his stuff, and it's not that you can't do anything, but it's like you also just have to work around him and his naps and everything else. So. But it. Yeah, it was. It was nice to just. I got rid of our old car, the Nissan Sentra. We got that towed up to a junkyard and got rid of it. I had to get. I have to get in. I had to get a new Social Security card issued, so I took care of that. Yeah. Yeah, we just. It was good. It was good to just, like, be able to get that stuff done. And actually, this Monday, Megan's gonna be home.
• 13:14
  Nice.
• 13:15
  Because she's on, like, Easter break, right. Spring break kind of thing, and she's. She's got plans for Monday or Monday morning, but I'm going to use. I'm going to go to the DMV that afternoon and get my license renewed. So it's, like, nice. It's. It's kind of like. Okay. Like, hey, like, I actually. There are things that I need to do, and I can actually get them done.
• 13:41
  Yeah.
• 13:42
  Yeah, so that's. That's good. Nice. Yeah.
• 13:47
  Cool, man.
• 13:48
  So, yeah, that's. I mean, it's. It's been good. Nothing, you know, super profound, just. But, like, you know, feels like we're sort of, like, improving.
• 13:58
  Yeah. Yeah, that's good.
• 14:01
  That's good.
• 14:02
  You know, not. Not sickness and. And devastation and things like that and.
• 14:10
  You know, broken cars.
• 14:12
  Exactly. Yeah, let's try. That's what I was trying to allude to, but, you know, that's just how it goes sometimes. But anyways. Yeah, that's good. While, you know, you said that there's nothing immediately, you know, fantastic on the horizon, I do think that there are some fantastic things that we need to talk about that we've been into over the past couple weeks, including a fantastic AI song.
• 14:39
  We still need a better name. Style. I will. I'll tell you what.
• 14:51
  Yes.
• 14:52
  I will issue this. This sort of decree if somebody gives us a good name for this segment that we both like.
• 15:04
  Yeah.
• 15:04
  I think we should reward that with. With some sort of, like, financial gain or, like, you know, just like 20, 25 virtual bucks to whatever storefront you want if you can name that segment now. Now now, keep in mind, Josh is going to write some just AI slop to like, create the. The theme song for it.
• 15:31
  Yeah, yeah.
• 15:33
  The media report, it just. It's not doing it for me.
• 15:36
  Yeah.
• 15:36
  So I'm just like, that's fine. There's my. There's my challenge. It's like if you. Yeah. Give us a better name and if. If we both like it and we. We use it, then. Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:51
  You may be rewarded. I like that.
• 15:52
  You. You shall be rewarded.
• 15:54
  Yeah.
• 15:55
  And if you. You offer us something stupid and insignificant, we. You will be mocked.
• 16:05
  So that's some motivation for you.
• 16:09
  Well, I mean, I'm not. Listen, if it's just mediocre, you won't be mocked, but you won't be rewarded if it's stupid. Like, you know. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna drag you out here and just embarrass you in front of all your friends and family.
• 16:24
  Right. So if you suggest something like, you know, calling the segment the media ochre, then we'll just. We'll just dismiss you outright. So.
• 16:34
  Yeah.
• 16:35
  Yeah.
• 16:37
  Your pun work was mediocre. Yes. That was what was media ochre.
• 16:43
  Yeah.
• 16:44
  Disgusting.
• 16:46
  Yeah. But you know what? What is not mediocre is some of the media that we've been into over the past. Over the past couple weeks. So I've got a couple things that I'm bringing to the table. Not tons of stu. I was trying to think, you know, there's not too much, like, new music or anything that I've been listening to necessarily. But you had mentioned actually last time around the State of the Ark podcast. We both like that. I hadn't listened to it in quite a while. You had particularly recommended an episode about Final Fantasy and Double A and stuff like that, which I did listen to, and that was really good. Some interesting thoughts. I was very surprised they didn't mention Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler, but that's. That's all. Whole other conversation for another time. What I'll say is that I did listen to an episode where they talked about top 10 video game soundtracks. And speaking of Octopath Traveler. They did not mention Octopath Traveler, but that's it. It made me think of what are some of my favorite video game soundtracks. And I also really like Hollow Knight, even though it's very background kind of ambience.
• 18:00
  It's atmospheric mood music.
• 18:02
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's fantastic music to, like, work or study to kind of have. I really like that. Yeah. But Octopath Traveler, so. So that's kind of my recommendation in terms of music of. Of what I've been listening to because I did pull it up again because I'm like, is it as good as I remember? And sure enough, dude, if I woke up to the theme of. Or excuse me, if I walked out of my door to the theme of Octopath Traveler, like, it's gonna be a good day because that just. That that theme just fills me with the sense of adventure, dude.
• 18:36
  And the break in the Boost remixes are.
• 18:39
  Oh, so good. So good.
• 18:41
  So good.
• 18:42
  Sick. I've listened to a little bit of the second game's soundtrack and it's really cool as well. They take some of those themes and. And kind of like do new mixes basically of them, which is pretty cool. I just don't know it in context. I haven't played the second game yet. It's currently on my backlog. But anyways, Octopaths Octopath Traveler soundtrack is fantastic. But yes, Break and Boost is a fantastic version of that as well. Outside of that, I have been watching, you know, continuing watching Naruto with my wife. Love that show. We're actually rounding the corner on the first kind of section of it before the time jump. But we've also been skipping fillers and there's a significant amount of filler in that show, which sucks anyways.
• 19:32
  But outside of that, there's a significant. In most shonen, there's a significant amount of filler.
• 19:38
  So out of. Out of 220 episodes, okay, there is a. There is a section that we are coming up on where it's like 80 episodes back to back, all filler. And I'm just like, oh my goodness. Like, I'm no, I'm not gonna watch this.
• 19:54
  None of it is worthwhile.
• 19:56
  Yeah, at least that's what I understand from. From trolling around in some, you know, Reddit and stuff like that. That the filler is not. Is generally not good. So anyways, that's a bummer. Yeah. Yeah. Not. Not really interested. But then there's the. Then after the time jump, then there's tons more stuff and I haven't watched any of that. So we might continue going. It's kind of up to my wife, but she really likes it. So anyways, anyways, outside of that, on. On YouTube, I've actually been watching a lot of fitness content. And I know that sounds really weird, but in the sense of. With this active April thing going on and getting more serious about it, I wanted to figure out a good kind of workout routine. First of all, I've been doing the five by five for a really long time when it came to strength training. And so I wanted to just change it up. So I found some, some dumbbell workouts which I've. Which I've incorporated. And actually as of this morning, I started doing it with my son also waking Ollie up in the morning. And so that's kind of cool. He's excited about it and, and it's funny cause he's a string bean. So I'd like to get a little bit more muscle on his frame, but also something, you know, we can do together, father and son kind of thing. So that's fun. But then also lots of recipes like low calorie versions of food, which is pretty cool because with Active April looking to shed a few pounds, which has been going pretty well. So I'll just throw out. Feel free to, you know, reach out to me however, if you want more, if you're interested in some of this stuff. But some of the people that I've been watching on YouTube that have some really cool recipes are. I don't even know how to. Rahul is his name. That's his name. Rahul Kamat. Exercise for cheat meals is really good. Remington James has some good stuff. He's a little. His personality is a little weird, but whatever. And then there's another YouTuber called the Cog is Shred, because there was a band that he was in called the Cog is Dead. And he's got some good recipes. So been watching that stuff. So that's something to report on. The last thing that I'll report on is a book that I just started listening to earlier today. It is called the. Excuse me. It's called the Things of Earth. It's by Joe Rigney. So he was a professor at Bethlehem Baptist College when he wrote this. It was back in like 2015, so quite a while ago. So the thesis of this book is basically you think of Bethlehem Baptist College, John Piper, you know, and. And his whole bent of Christian hedonism. Well, this book is about how we are. What's called the things of Earth. I'm trying to think of how to say this, but how God knows that we are finite creatures and he understands and he created all, all things. And he saw it fit to make us finite and to put us in this world of things. And he created us to take joy in the things of this world as well as a way to enjoy him. And so what this book. This book kind of delves into that, that it's sort of Like a case against dualism of, you know, material things, bad, spiritual things, good kind of idea. But talks about the goodness of the things that we do here on Earth and the things that we enjoy here on Earth and how they point us back to God and so divorced from God. Yes, it can be. It can be idolatry, certainly, but that the joy that we take in, the things that we do, the things that we spend our time on, or like a good meal, the joy that we take in that is not by accident, but is actually a gift from God and it shows us a little bit about who God is. And so we do it in worship to him by enjoying the good gifts that he's given us. This is a really cool thesis. I'm probably not even halfway through the book, but I've been enjoying it quite.
• 24:22
  The things of Earth.
• 24:23
  Yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah, cool. So good stuff. That's what I've been into. Yeah, I, I figured that one in particular kind of has. Has some implications for, you know, what we do on this podcast as well.
• 24:38
  Yeah.
• 24:39
  So wanted to check it out.
• 24:41
  I'm actually buying it right now.
• 24:43
  Nice. Nice. Yeah, I think it'd be a good one to kick around. So. Yeah, awesome. That's what I've got to report on. How about. How about you?
• 24:54
  Okay, so I'm going to start out with my book, and it is similar to. I'm waiting for all the things to go through. Man, it's just taking forever. It's called Full Time, the Full Time by David Bonson. The. It's. And yes, that's Greg Bonson's son. Okay, but Full Time Work in the Meaning of Life is like the subtitle and it is. He was on the Way I heard it with Mike Rowe and.
• 25:38
  Okay, sweet.
• 25:38
  I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. And I, I listened to it there and I was like, okay, this is kind of compelling, kind of interesting, and it's a book that I'm not sure that I would recommend it to everybody. And in fact, I think in. In some people's hands, this book could kind of be a little dangerous because they would, I think, not heed some of the warnings. The, the one thing, the like, the one sort of like major criticism is that I think Bahnsen kind of overstates his position in the sense that, okay, he doesn't. He. He kind of just sort of. He's advocating for stronger work ethic. He actually lays out a really, a pretty solid theology of work in our relationship to it for the most part, like I would probably differ with him on a few things, but it's a book basically laying out the case that, like, you and I, like, we were made to work. Now I think he does kind of like. It's like, what I would say is, like, this book is probably like, I'm like, 8020 with it, right? And so there's. There's like 80% of it. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. This is very good. And then there's this part, like, sort of right at the end of a lot of his arguments, where he just, like, turns up the volume on his argument, where I'm like, no, like, we don't go there.
• 27:11
  Like, okay, okay.
• 27:13
  I. It's. It's hard for me. Just, like, he doesn't. So, like, an area where he kind of attacks work, life, balance, right? He's like, you don't see anything like that in the Bible, you know? You know, see anything like that. It's like you were made to work. And he. He kind of like, in advocating for rest, he's like, you know, you have one day and seven. He's like. And he. And he doesn't like, lay out hard, really hard lines, but he doesn't. He doesn't spend any time fleshing some of that other stuff out and sort of like. And he kind of, like, dismisses a lot of things, and he has to redefine terms to. To suit himself. So, like, he doesn't like the word workaholic or workaholism because he doesn't actually think that's a problem. His kind of. His. His position is that a lot of people are really lazy and they just need to work harder. And he's not entirely wrong. But I also don't think that's the totality of, like. I think there are things that he doesn't address or doesn't pay attention to or kind of like walks right past that you can have meaningful conversation of, but they're also, like, pushback against some of his positions. Like, you can have a meaningful conversation that would ultimately, I think, strengthen it. But, like, he just doesn't want to kind of acknowledge or deal with those things. So, like, one of the things is, like, he does caution against idolatry, so making an idol out of accomplishment and, you know, you know, neglecting your family. But he doesn't. He just kind of like. It's like. I don't think that. It's almost like his position in the book kind of seems like. I don't think it's as big A problem as people want to make it. And I'm like, okay. Like, there is a difference between, you know, and it's like, it's one of those things where if I could sit down with him, you know, and I'm. I'm like elder Millennial. Like, I'm sort of like, I sit right between Gen X and millennial, period. He's very. Gen X. A very smart dude. Like, it's a really, really fascinating book. It's just. It's like I said, it's like, there's a point where it's like 80% of it. I'm like, yes, yes, yes. And the 20% that I'm. I'm like, no. Is like, where he just kind of like, lands in a few places that I'm like, I'm like, it's hard to talk about it without. It's just like, it's a book that I think people should read. It's just be very careful.
• 30:05
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair.
• 30:08
  Because I think most of it is pretty helpful. But I think where he lands in a few spots is. Could be really dangerous. And I'm like, even the idea that you're made to work, that's a part of why your existence, like, you're ultimately made for relationship. You're made for relationship with God first and foremost, but also other people and your vocation and your labor can be a part of that. But if that gets in the way of those things, then it's wicked. Like, in the sense that if you are putting that over relationship, I would say that that's evil. You should repent. That's sinful, and you should repent. And I'm not necessarily sure that he would co. Sign with that. Like, so it's kind of like one of those things. I think the book is, like, really good. I just think he kind of takes his arguments a little too far. Yeah, it's. But I mean, yeah, so it's. It's one. It's like, there's a bit of an asterisk. I think it's a worthwhile read for most people. I think there are going to be some people who would read this book and look at as a justification to keep indulging in sinful, like, ambitious work patterns where, like, they are neglecting relationship, they are neglecting responsibilities, you know, because it's like, like. And I. I also think that there are some people who probably aren't working nearly hard enough.
• 31:47
  Sure, yeah, yeah.
• 31:48
  That this book is a really. Would be really useful. So it's like, it's kind of like, it can be really dangerous. Dangerous for a fringe, you know, kind of demographic. I think it's broadly pretty helpful. Yeah, I. I like the book. I do. Like, I. I like it enough that after I listened to the audiobook, I bought a physical copy. So it's like, oh, nice. Yeah, I think it's. I just think it's. It's a book that you have to wrestle with. Yeah. And you have to just sort of, you know, he. I think he does lay out some pretty compelling arguments. But, yeah, it's a good book. I recommend it. With kind of an asterisk on it, like, you know. So, yeah, I. Yeah, it's. It's one that I'd love to. Frankly, I'd love to hear what you think about it sometime. Like. Yeah.
• 32:45
  Yeah, I'll have to check it out.
• 32:47
  It's like I said, it's like. It's like one of those things. Like, 80. I kind of. I was like. For a while, I was like, yeah. Like, I'm like 90% on this book. Like, I'm like, yeah, this is pretty good. And then as I've sat back from it a little bit, I'm like, yeah, I'd probably scale that back. Like, I think there were some things in there that were very convicting for me, that. But I think also. Yeah, there's just some. Like I said there. I think some things that he just. He turns the volume up on a few things where I'm like, that's not helpful. That's. That's actually not good. It goes beyond just not being helpful like that. That's probably, you know, you're. You're probably actually, like, maybe being a little damaging. But again, I. Really smart, dude. It's a really interesting book. I think the broad majority. The vast majority of it is really good.
• 33:39
  So. Yeah. Cool.
• 33:42
  Just as, like, you know, not watching a ton, I did start rewatching Jujutsu Kaizen. It's like, sort of on my lunch break. So I watch it for, like, 10 minutes. And because that one, I think. I think we're getting close to the end of that one. And so it's like, okay, you know, I did like that, but I'm not watching that super seriously. And this is this next. So this the thing that I've actually been watching and really enjoying with Megan, actually kind of have to throw up a bit of a flag. It's called Last One Laughing. The UK version. It's on Amazon Prime Video. Yeah. And we were talking about, like, British Humor and language. And we. There were parts of that that I was howling, like I was laughing, like belly laughing. Yeah. Watching some of that show. Richard Iowade is. How you say his name? Treasure.
• 34:47
  He is.
• 34:49
  He's on it and he's a. He's an absolute killer on it, man.
• 34:54
  Yeah. Dude. I imagine he'd be really hard to. To. To get out just because he seems to be able to hold his composure. Although I was surprised, you know, with. With other seasons about who got knocked out pretty early. So.
• 35:10
  Anyways, sorry, but last one. Laughing. Jimmy Carr is the host. I love Jimmy Carr. He's the one that's got like the inverted laugh thing. And it's just the. Because he laughs on the inhalation and it's. It's just so ridiculous and just disarming. It's really funny. There's. It's definitely not like. Yeah. Sort of parents. Yeah.
• 35:39
  Screwing that clean humor.
• 35:43
  No, it's a bunch of comedians just. And they're like. The whole premise is they're just going in there to like. They can't smile, they can't laugh, they can't, like. So it's just like comedians go like, just going after each other, trying to get each other a laugh and.
• 36:00
  Yeah.
• 36:01
  Yeah, it's. It's delightful, though. It is. It is so much fun.
• 36:08
  It is interesting because the things that comedians laugh at is. Is almost more of, like the more clever things, if that makes sense. Like how you come to make a joke out of something seems to be the thing that makes more comedians laugh than the things that are most outwardly funny is what it felt like to me.
• 36:32
  But they kind of have like a mechanical. Like, they have a deep, mechanical understanding of humor and like how, like the punch lines and the timing and everything else.
• 36:43
  Yeah.
• 36:44
  So they have a greater appreciation for that. But it's also like they're in a room together. I think it's like eight hours Right. Over the course of a day. And so when you start getting to the end of that, they start almost getting like punch drunk.
• 36:55
  Right.
• 36:55
  And it's like there's at one point in time, like the one contestant got themselves out because they started laughing at their own material.
• 37:04
  Right.
• 37:05
  Like, because they were just, like. They were just like, so on the edge. Like, it was. But it was like it. It was so much fun to watch.
• 37:18
  Yeah.
• 37:19
  Just the. Just the stupidity and the hijinks and.
• 37:24
  Yeah.
• 37:25
  Again, some of it is. It's definitely not what I would call family friendly. So it's. There's some language and there's but it's. It was. It was ridiculous. It makes me like. But. And what's even funnier is, like, because I started watching the Canadian version, right. Of that show, and it. Man, Canadians have real potty mouths. That's all I'm saying. Like, you know, it's. But, yeah, it's. It's really funny. It's really, really funny. It's. It's only a few. It might be like six episodes. Okay. So it's not super. It's not a super big burn. I was. I was delighted by it. I just. We finished it tonight, actually, shortly before we started recording, and I was just like. I was just. Like I said at one point in time, I was belly laughing earlier because I was just like, this is so ridiculous and stupid. And it's just like. I think it's also really funny to watch comedians struggle to not break.
• 38:39
  Yeah.
• 38:40
  Like, half the fun is just watching them, like, trying not to just lose their minds. Right.
• 38:47
  Right.
• 38:48
  So. So there's that. The last thing I want to bring up is. And it's just that. But it's. It's an artist, and you and I talked about a little bit before in the pre show. It's a guy named Mac Glocky. He just kind of does, like, covers of songs and reinterpretations, but they're really great. So, like, he did a version of Espresso, but he did it in the style of 311. And the way he mixed the way he does his vocals, everything, it just like, it sounded like an action. Like, it could have. It. It sounded like it belonged on a 311 record. He does stuff in the style of System of A Down, the Deftones. Like, there's a few Nirvana ones. He's done some Smashing Pumpkin covers. Like, he does corn. Sometimes. I'm not so big on, like, I don't really like corn.
• 39:43
  Yeah.
• 39:43
  And so when he does a. A version of a song in the style of corn.
• 39:48
  Yeah.
• 39:49
  It just really. Although I think. I'm pretty sure his.
• 39:52
  It's pretty hard to digest.
• 39:57
  I'll just. You're awful. I don't want to see that later.
• 40:10
  All right. But I'm not a fan of corn.
• 40:13
  No. But, like, his version of Umbop, I think, is done in the style of corn. That is a really wild juxtaposition. Yeah. And it's. Yeah, it's kind of insane. It's not my favorite thing, but it is kind of a. Like a bit of a insane little dream exists.
• 40:34
  Yeah.
• 40:35
  Yeah, yeah. It's like this is like something that like, I'm not going to listen to this like over and over again. But I'm like, oh, this is. This is unhinged. And I kind of love it. Yeah. So yeah, just it's M, A, C and then glocky G, L, O, K, C, K, Y. And again it's. It's something like I. Pretty much everything I've brought here I've had caveats and like warnings and asterisks saying like, we care again. He covers a lot of like he's not a Christian, he's not a believer as far as I can tell. So like he covers songs and he's sometimes there swears.
• 41:13
  Sure. Yeah.
• 41:14
  But yeah, some of his stuff is like that, that espresso in the style of 311. I was just so tickled by that because I was like, it was just. I was like, holy crap. A very talented young man. So it was really pretty delightful to sort of like check that out. But nice. But yeah. So that's as far as like non video game related stuff that's kind of like, that's been like the cream of the crop. Like, that's the big hits on my radar. But we are video game podcast, Josh and I feel like we should talk about what we've been playing lately. So what have you been playing, my guy?
• 41:52
  Okay. So I finished up actually the Banner Saga or at least the first chapter of the Banner Saga even know what the designations are for the other ones I have the collection.
• 42:04
  They're just Banner Saga part one, two and three.
• 42:06
  Okay.
• 42:07
  I think it's just Banner Saga two, Banner Saga three.
• 42:11
  There you go. Well, I finished the first one and you know, again, last episode we said that we didn't want to talk too much about the game because of. Because we're going to be doing an entire episode on it. But I will say that I enjoyed my time quite a bit with the game. It is not a perfect game, but the areas in which it was not done well, or excuse me, that it was not perfect, I think were easily kind of smoothed over just by the overall tone of the game. The. The. I talked about art style, even the music that goes into it, but even some of the themes of the game that continue to be pulled out and the way that it pulls on your heartstrings. And I feel like leadership is a huge theme of the game and it made me realize how poor of a leader I am because my decisions were not that great. And I don't know.
• 43:19
  Well, I, you know, What. And I want to save some. The majority of this. I think sometimes it's like, even the best leaders, sometimes you make it like the best possible decision or what you think is a good decision. And the unforeseen consequences.
• 43:38
  Yeah.
• 43:38
  And the fall. Like. And it's like. So it's. Yeah, it's a really interesting game for some of that stuff.
• 43:46
  Yeah. I will say I went in blind. Like, I knew what the Banner Saga is. Was. But in terms of, like, story beats or anything like that, I went in blind. I will also say this is a little. This is not spoiler. But it's just. It has to do with the functions of the game. There is no manual save in the game. It saves for you. So the game is very much made so that you do not save scum, but that you make decisions and continue on. And so I let myself be carried away with the current so that when you make a poor decision, it's just like, oh, that sucks. So it may very well be that if you made a different decision, it could have ended the same way. It might just all be an illusion. But I will say that that illusion, like, had me and definitely made me wrestle with some of the things that I was deciding throughout the game. So I think it worked really well. Anyways, that is probably too much detail. Um, I'll just say that I really enjoyed the game. So I. You know, I don't know that I'm actually going to continue on to the second and third ones, although they are very much connected. It's just a continuation. There is an ending, but it's a continuation. Sort of like Lord of the Rings or something like that. I. I quite enjoyed it, but just due to the nature of the games that I've picked to play this year, I doubt that I'm going to play the second one until next year, so.
• 45:13
  But you do intend to play the second one?
• 45:16
  I. I mean, yeah. I want. I want to see how it continues. And I think it's pro. It's probably based on the first one. Worth my time, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I want to see where it goes because, yeah, there's big. Impending doom. That's. That's going on. So anyways, really enjoyed the baby.
• 45:33
  The stakes are big.
• 45:35
  Yes. Yes. Yeah. Even though, again, satisfying ending. There's. There's more. There's more for sure. Other game that I have been playing, I've only had two sessions with this game. Okay. Metal Gear Solid 2, Sons of Liberty, the HD version. I will just say, being completely honest, being completely transparent, this game was very frustrating for my first session. This game does not teach you how to play this game. After my first session with the game, I went online and I'm like, what am I doing wrong? You know? Okay, one, it's just an older game, okay. So it's gonna play very differently. You don't have twin stick controls. You don't have control of the camera. So there are some frustrating things there. In addition to that, I saw in multiple places, people asking, okay, but how do I, like, actually play this? How do I learn to play this game? And the suggestion was play the first game. And that is horrible that you are required to play the first game to learn how to play the second game. I've played the first game, but it's been a long time since I played the first game. But there is literally, like, maneuvers and things that are fairly basic to what you're doing in the game that is not taught to you in the beginning of the game. So I will just say the opening of metal gear solid 2 is very frustrating. At least it was for me. Now you can say, well, yeah, it's, you know, 15 years later or however long ago the game. Probably longer. Probably way longer than that, but it's been a long time. Games have progressed. Yes, that is true. However, I think there should be some sort of tutorial that's not VR missions, you know, it should at least kind of like, push you towards, like, hey, here's how to learn how to play the game. Like, you don't have to treat me like I'm stupid, but I would like to know what at least my face button do.
• 47:31
  So the game is almost 25 years old.
• 47:35
  Okay, 25.
• 47:37
  Well, it was released in 2001.
• 47:39
  Okay. Yep, yep. So, you know, you can, yeah, you can give it a pass, but for someone coming at it much, much later down the line, it was just very frustrating. Now, I had another session with it today after reading some stuff online, after looking around, after watching some videos, it's like, okay, I get it more. I still have some frustrations with it, but I'm beginning to understand it more. It just has a pretty high diff. Not difficulty curve, but just getting comfortable with the game. There's a phrase for that that for some reason is not popping up, but. Yeah, but getting used to it just takes a while, so I'm going to continue on. I'm just saying that it does not leave a good first impression. Even though I like the whole cinematic quality of the game, I think there are some things that I Enjoy about it. But the gameplay is not one of them, unfortunately. So I'll continue on and I'll report later as well as we continue to report on our backlogs. But that's what I've been playing for the most part since I beat the Banner Saga. I get a negative one to my backlog beat down score. However, I picked up another game. I was walking through Walmart and in the clearance rack, there was live a live on Switch for $25. And so I purchased that game for a positive one. So I'm still at negative five for the year because I'm excited to play Live Alive next year. So there you go. That's what I have to report on. What have you been playing, Nate?
• 49:17
  Not. Okay, so I have. I did get sort of sidetracked and I'll talk about that here in a minute.
• 49:23
  More snap?
• 49:24
  No. Well, actually, I did kind of snap died off for a little bit.
• 49:29
  Nice.
• 49:30
  But I kind of dipped into Astrobot a little bit. Yeah, it. I beat a few stages. There's some challenge levels that I kind of get caught up on, like hung up on a little bit. Like they're necessary for completion, but they're not necessary for progression. Sure. So playing a little bit of Astrobot, it's still. It's delightful. It's. It's charming, you know? So. Yeah, I like that one. Not tons of time there, but I actually fired up 999. Okay. Got through the first puzzle.
• 50:11
  Okay.
• 50:11
  And I'm using. I am using a walkthrough to kind of like guide okay me through. Through that. Just to sort of like help me get my feet.
• 50:22
  Okay.
• 50:23
  I'm coming to terms with the fact and it might be something that kind of comes up tonight, but it's like I just. Well, puzzles and me, like, we're not super friendly. Like, and it's not that. It's like, I think even when we were playing like the Talos principle, like, this is just something that I'm coming to like. I. I like puzzles, but I also don't like them, you know, and it's so. It's. It's kind of one of those things where 999 has been interesting because it is so puzzle heavy. And sometimes I'm like, these puzzles don't really make that much sense sometimes, you know? And it's like, is it that it doesn't make that much sense or is that I'm just not willing to put in the time? So there's kind of a. But it's like I'm just wondering too. I'm like, part of this whole experience is like, I don't know that I like puzzle games all that much. Like, I don't know, like, well, and.
• 51:33
  It'S interesting because I do, you know, I like the Talos Principle. I like games like Professor Layton a lot. I obviously like 999. However, I think I had similar thoughts to what you're describing when I played through Ace Attorney 2 last year of like, I like this game. I'm not sure that the puzzle elements of it are really up my alley because I feel like I'm not getting it. Like, it just doesn't. I need someone to tell me what to do because it doesn't. It's not clicking the same way that other puzzle games do, I think.
• 52:08
  And I think Ace Attorney. Okay, so. And maybe this is just like the visual novels. There's a bit of a spectrum. But I think Ace Attorney, though, is really close to like a sort of point and click adventure game.
• 52:18
  Right.
• 52:20
  Which there's, like, design. I just. And. Because I want to talk about this more in depth, but it's like there's this kind of thing where it's just like, I just wonder if, like. Because I used to like those games a lot more.
• 52:34
  Yeah.
• 52:35
  And I just wonder if sort of, in a way, and I hate saying it this way, but, like, maybe I've sort of outgrown some of that to where it's just like, I just don't have the patience for it. So. Yeah. But I've been playing it. It's cool. It's a cool setup, It's a cool premise. I'm interested. I'm going to see it through because that's one of our games on the list. But the one that kind of like, got a hold of me and just totally sidetracked me was something that I fired up kind of on a wh. Actually, I had my pastor over and he brought his two boys over, and the oldest, Eli, he's in kindergarten and he likes video games. He keeps telling me that he wants to play Shadow the Colossus. And I'm like, dude, you're not ready for Shadow the Colossus. Like, believe me, there will come a time, like when you're old enough, when you're ready, like, we'll do this. My guy, like. Like, I have no problem sort of like, ushering you into, like, sort of like, you know, transcendent games. I have no problems with that, but actually bought him the Mega Man X Legacy Collection for his Switch and I was like, I was like, dude, I said, I'm gonna give you a little bit of homework, Eli. You need to learn how to play Mega Man X.
• 53:55
  Nice. Nice.
• 53:56
  And so. So that was. But anyways, I fired up. Like, we were just kind of like floating around and I was like, hey, this one's kind of cool. I fired up Dragon Quest Builders.
• 54:09
  Okay.
• 54:10
  And I had fired this game up and played a little bit of it and kind of bounced off of it because it's like, it's Dragon Quest meets Minecraft. And I was like, that's stupid. I don't like that. Like, I don't really like Minecraft. It's like, I get the thing, but I also. This thing gets kind of a dumb premise. I just like, Minecraft does nothing for me.
• 54:31
  Yeah.
• 54:32
  But then I started playing this game. Like, just playing it, actually playing it. And next thing I know, like, it's the only thing I'm playing. Like, it's. I'm like low key obsessed with the game. And I think what kind of helps is that there's a little bit of story sort of like framing everything.
• 54:51
  Sure.
• 54:51
  But there's also some like, really interesting systems. And like the buildings serve a purpose. It's not just like, oh, build whatever you want. It's like you're building up these little towns and you have a really like, kind of like small area. And I just, I'm. This might be like, I'm still pretty early on. I haven't, I haven't been the first chapter yet, but I think this might, I might try to push to get this on the list. That's how much I like it. That's how much I'm enjoying my time with it. And it's not, it's just. It is a comfort food game.
• 55:32
  Yeah.
• 55:33
  But it is a very rich and charming. Like, it just, it oozes charm. Like the, the charm in this game is actually like disarming. Like it just kind of like, you know, it's like one of those video games. It's like you go and you play and you're like, oh, this is like, this is like why. This is an encapsulation of like why I love this medium in so many ways. Like, like it doesn't have a lot to say. It's. But it's just fun and it's sweet and it's clever and it's beautiful and it's like, oh, man. So I really. I went down the rabbit hole with it and I'm kind of like, it kind of pulled me Away from everything else. And so it's like, I think I'm just going to like follow that for a little bit. I think it's not a super long game. How long to be. I think has it like 20, 25 hours. Right. So I'm going to, I'm going to play Dragon Quest Builders because it's delightful. And the part that is a little like hard and I just have to like rein myself in is that when I'm building, like I want to, I want to make everything perfect and like, just like there's a weird like obsession and it's like I'm gonna do this and blah, blah, you know, it's like, dude, like, like you don't need to, you don't need to be insane over this. So it's, but I think it's, it's, it's beautiful. I think it's great. I love it. Also today and it's, it's. I was listening to into the Aether and they referenced a game called Good Sudoku and I was like, I think I played that before and I might have. But I. It's free, you know, on, on iPhone. So I picked it up and I, I've just been playing the free version and it's like sort of an optimized version of Sudoku that teaches you how to play Sudoku better. Okay. And it's cool. I like Sudoku.
• 57:35
  Yeah.
• 57:35
  Like, which is weird because it's like that's kind of a puzzle game. You know, it's a logic game. But so just I've been playing. I was playing that a little bit today. It's, it's kind of fun. I don't know how much I'm gonna stick with it or anything, but. And in preparation for this episode, I did play through and beat the Stanley Parable. So that gets me a negative one. Yeah, I haven't picked up anything in a minute. But, but, but yeah, I was at negative four. I'm now at negative five. So.
• 58:07
  Sweet. Hey, there you go, man. That's awesome.
• 58:10
  Sort of ticking along here, but. Yeah, but if you guys, you know, you know, talking about beat down scores and all that other stuff, like if you guys have been listening or watching for any amount of time, you know exactly what we're talking about. And if you don't, the Beatdown is a meta that basically encourages you to play the games that you already own and to minimize buying new games. It's. You want a negative score, you want a low score. So yeah, if you're interested in that Sort of like exploring that a little bit more. We have the rules posted in our discord. You can reach out to us, email us or whatever, and we'll get you a copy or whatever of the current rule sheet. But yeah, so, yeah, it's. It's something that if you're interested in, it's there and, you know, we'd love to have you sort of join. We think it's a fun little system that's worthwhile. Other things that we think are worth your time and worth checking out. It's. We actually have a Patreon and it is a tip jar. Right. But it's not just a tip jar. It's also a way for you to partner with us. If you have done the sharing and the carrying, if you've done the rating and the reviewing and you're looking for a way to go a little bit above and beyond, you can contribute to that for as lit and for as little as a buck a month. You get early and uncut access to each and every episode. You get a special role in our discord. You have the opportunity as a Patreon to pick a game or a topic for us to do an episode on, and you get actually an exclusive podcast called the Bro Hang, where it tends to be a little more stream of consciousness, not necessarily video game related. You know, sometimes it gets a little spicy, sometimes it gets kind of silly. It's a spectrum and it just tends to be a little more conversational. And yeah, the, the antics are a lot less reined in. Like we kind of follow our whims.
• 1:00:02
  Yeah.
• 1:00:02
  And so it gets a little crazy. But it's fun. Patrons seem to enjoy it. And yeah, if that's something you'd be interested in, you know, feel free to check us out on patreon.com I think it's backslash, the backlog breakdown, but links are in the link tree. So, yeah. Lastly, but not leastly, we are. We have some friends that we've come alongside and we really think that you ought to check out some of their stuff as well. Not only should you check out the GG app, which is the official app of the backlog breakdown, but you should also check out our friends over at the Playwell Network. You've got Paul Lytle, the techno funk boy who has the Thorns of War, which is a Dragonlance actual play podcast. You've got Porcho, the Wonder from down under with nothing new under the porch, which it tends to kind of basically sort of work out to be like, like hard drive is The. The video game satire website. So it's like Hard Drive that isn't sort of that. That loves Jesus. It's a little satirical, it's a little weird, it's kind of absurdist. Lots of, like, bad impersonations, impressions and accents. But we love Portia. We love what he's doing there. Um, we also have Wesley Ray, the henchin dad. His current project is Retro Nim, which is sort of a. An introspective retrospective, like nostalgia video game kind of podcast thing. Yeah. And it tends to be pretty short form except for his Pokemon tier lists. They go on for hours. And he says some very unpleasant things that, you know, I love Wesley. He's a sweet man and I count him as a pretty good friend, but it leaves me a little concerned. I'm just saying. That being said, guys, we love those guys. We love what they're doing. So here's a word for one of them. This is Phil from Phil's Gaming Emporium. We have all your retro needs and our proud sponsor of the Playwell Network, in honor of you getting pwned, we are offering a cheap, cheap, cheap backlog reduction sale.
• 1:02:06
  Just.
• 1:02:06
  Just request our services with the promo code. Backlog half off for 50% off our backlog services. After that, we simply send you a package for you to put your backlog in. And once the mail carrier comes, your backlog is gone. It's like magic. You have a clean slate and room for more games that you can order from our website, Phil's Gaming Emporium. And we're back. So, folks, tonight we're going to be talking about the Stanley parable, and that's right, just as a bit. I don't, I don't know how spoilery this conversation is going to be. There's probably going to be some spoilers, but it's. It's kind of a game. I don't know. I mean, you can talk about it, but I think this is a game that is, and I use the term game pretty loosely because I think this is. Tends to be like a little bit more of an experience. Like there are some gamified elements, but this actually feels to me more of like a walking sim. All a, like Firewatch kind of thing where there's very limited interactivity. But yeah, it's. Yeah, so it's just. Just, you know, sort of listeners, viewers, you know, sort of, you know, kind of wander in at your own peril here because. Yeah, I mean, some of just even what we're going to talk about, though, may color Your, like, your experience with the game just because it's, it's, it's, it's just tough to talk about a game like this for a lot of reasons.
• 1:03:43
  But yeah, I, I would almost take, or it sounded like you were saying, you don't know if we're going to talk about spoilers. I would almost take the opposite approach in that we can't talk much about this game at all, except for spoiling things.
• 1:03:57
  Yeah, yeah. And I think we can definitely talk about some scenarios, but I, we can have like a broader conversation just about like, well, just kind of, you know, we can sort of tap into those, the, the, the who's and the what's and the, the where and the why and all of that and we can sort of flesh that out, you know, a little bit for sure.
• 1:04:18
  Yeah. So, yeah, I think though, just kind of giving an explanation of what this game is, like you said it is, it is very much akin to a walking simulator. The first version of this game, which I believe was free, was a Half Life two mod.
• 1:04:34
  It was. Yeah, it was in the source engine.
• 1:04:36
  Yeah. So. So it started its life in that way. The opening of the game. I'd like to just give an overview for anyone who hasn't played it. The open of the, the opening of the game, you get, you have this, this British narrator talking about this man at his desk and then it shows you. This man is in his cubicle. He's at his desk, he's at work, he's got a nice life, whatever, he's got a good job, but he sits in a cubicle all day. And on his computer it just tells him to push certain buttons at certain times and he's really good at that. Well, this game starts off and Stanley, which is the person at the desk, he's, he's waiting and he has, he doesn't get any more instructions. So he doesn't know what's going on. Why, why is it taking so long? Like, this is my work. But there's nothing to do. So he gets up and he notices that there's no one else around, not just in his cubicle, but in his, in his room, in his area, in pretty much the whole building that he's in. There's, there's no one else around. And so you have this guy, this British man, narrating Stanley's thoughts, where he's going and what he's doing, and you have this little bit of a mystery. So that is the very beginning of the game. That's, that's Kind of the. That's where it sets you off with the game. You're in control of Stanley, obviously, but you have this narrator who kind of moves a little bit from explaining who Stanley is to then what he does. But he does so by speaking about Stanley in the past tense of events that have not happened. And so for instance, it'll say Stanley, walk to the restroom, but you're in control of Stanley. So do you really want to walk into the restroom or would you rather go and turn and go into the broom closet instead? And the narrator then would respond, depending on what you do, whether or not you follow what he says that Stanley is doing or whether you choose to have Stanley do something else. And so there's a little bit of cat and mouse between you who are controlling Stanley as you're trying to figure out what's going on, versus the narrator who is trying to control you, controlling Stanley by telling you what Stanley is doing. And all kinds of shenanigans ensue from this relationship, from these series of relationships that are going on. But that is the conceit of the game, of the, the experience. Like you're talking about the Stanley parable, but it is like you said, walking sim. I mean, you're pretty much just controlling Stanley. And then it's outside of that, it's like a one button game.
• 1:07:26
  Yeah.
• 1:07:27
  You know, to interact with things, but that's about it.
• 1:07:31
  Yeah. And it's, it is, I think it's, it's sort of interesting because it is a game that kind of, especially the more you play it, it has multiple endings, but there are things that kind of unfold. And we're only talking about, we're talking about the base version because there's also the Ultra Deluxe version which sort of adds some contents. It actually moves it from Source engine to Unity. So I did, I did want to just the developer and the publisher. Publisher is Galactic Cafe, that's the studio name or whatever.
• 1:08:14
  Okay.
• 1:08:16
  But I think what's kind of interesting is that it's a game that too. And again, I don't know that we really need to get too much into the scenarios because I think part of what it does, and again, we can talk about them if we really want to or need to. But it's a game that sort of asks the question what if? Okay. And it asks questions about like free. It sort of makes certain presuppositions about will and agency and just exercising these things. And what does that mean? And are you like it? Like, are you in control? Are you Just sort of a. And it's an interesting reflection and it's kind of one of the things that I think is kind of cool about it. Right. Is that it is funny. Right. It goes without. Like, this game is primarily, I would say a comedy game. And that's really kind of the only reason. I think that if this game were a little more earnest about sort of like some of the scenarios and exploring some of those themes and ideas, and if it took itself a little more serious, seriously, like, it wouldn't, it would be not. It just, it wouldn't carry as much weight. It'd be a lot more trite and kind of just like. But the, the humor does sort of help to carry that. Now, that being said, I do think that this, the, the Stanley parable is very much a game of its time and that. Okay, the only thing that kind of keeps it relevant is the fact that it is funny, that it is humorous, that does kind of like take the wind out of its own own sails a little bit, you know. And I think that that sort of, that sort of self awareness in the game design actually lends itself to being a little more timeless. But I, I also feel like it does, even, even in spite of that, it does feel like a little trite at times. A little maybe pretentious where it's like. And again, it's tempered. It's tempered by his humor. But I do very much feel like there were a lot of games out of that era that sort of were doing the same things. I think this does it better than most, you know what I'm saying? But it was kind of like these artsy, fartsy games kind of exploring ideas and sort of wrestling with this stuff in different ways. And I think this is in a lot of ways best in class. It's like, it's like the, the, the metaphor and the analogy is very subtle. The way it sort of like wrestles with these things is pretty interesting. But at the same time, I think the only thing that keeps it from just being an absolutely just pretentious piece of slop is, is the fact that it's funny and the, the writing is very clever and that it doesn't take itself so seriously, you know?
• 1:11:15
  Right, yes, yes, that. I think that's a key part of it. I want to put a pin in that and come back to it after we can talk more spoilers. But yes, I completely agree with you. Yeah, once again, it is very comedic in its tone. And so I think you'll have fun with the game if you haven't played it. I would encourage you to play it. It's a short playthrough.
• 1:11:40
  Yeah.
• 1:11:41
  There are lots of different endings and so, and you don't. It's not like you have to see them all. They're, they're playing around with these concepts. So if these concepts sound interesting to you of having this narrator who get, he's a British guy and so just the way that he talks and the way that he expresses things. He is very expressive but you can feel sometimes how he talks down to you or, or you know, his snarkiness in his tone and things like that.
• 1:12:13
  It's a little dry. It can be pretty passive aggressive.
• 1:12:19
  Yes. Yeah, yeah. And, and so it's, it's funny. Yes. It does veer into the black comedy sometimes of like, oh, dealing with some darker subjects, but in a very comedic way. But I do think there's that, that through line of comedy. I would say that. But again, I can flesh that out a little bit more once we, once we're kind of past the point of spoilers. But if, if you haven't played the game and these things sound interesting to you, I would definitely recommend playing the game. Nate, it sounds like you would as well. You said it was best in class.
• 1:12:56
  Yeah, I mean as a point of comparison, like, I think I, I think that frankly, like it's, it's comparable in some ways to Portal, but Portal's way more fun and Glados is a much more fleshed out sort of antagonist. Then the narrator is not really an antagonist, he's, he's more of a foil. But I just, I think, I think Portal's humor is a little tighter and I think the gameplay is like. And I think what also just is the gameplay is a little more fun. Like it, like Portal is much more of a, of a game wherein again like I would say the Stanley parable is sort of like an experience. And so your mileage may vary with some of that stuff like that. Like even when we're talking about like puzzle games, like, it's like, like I, you know, just like sort of again, spoiler free. Sort of like just looking at this a little bit here, I enjoyed my time with the game, but there were times where I was like, I did want something a little more from it. But it's like you said, it's a one button game. It's basically a walking simulator with limited. And it's like if they could have managed to actually attack more of a game into this, like make it a little more Interactive, make it a little bit more something like. I think it would have stood up a little bit better. That's. That. All that being said, I. I think it's a really good game, you know, or it's a really neat experience. I just, you know, and like I said, I think part of it is like, I just, I'm not sure that does feel like not a period piece, but like it is a game of a certain time. Yeah. And I'm like, I just. It was 2013, it was published and I'm like, oh, yeah, no, like, yeah, I can kind of like remember the scene and I, I appreciate that. But yeah, that, that does sort of. That's like sort of how. That's my spoiler free impression.
• 1:15:07
  Yeah. Yeah. I think that's also a good segue into what we typically call baggage or basically our history with the game. I played the game quite a long time ago, I mean, very long time ago. And. And I enjoyed it quite a bit. Obviously it's on our top 100 list. And since you hadn't played it before, but you knew of the game, that was because of me. I do think it deserves a place on this list and we can talk about that a bit more later as to why. But that's my history with it. The reason I say that I think that that's a good segue is because if you want something a little more gamey, which is in a different way, it's not like it's complex at all. But the next game, by the way, the Beginner's Guide. Yes, exactly. Is what I was going to bring up is that I played the Beginner's Guide after this. And that is. It is similar in that it is a narrated event, but it's not narrated, it's narrate. As in like basically this guy's reading his journal entries to you about creating a video game and about the. That game really deals with the ideas of artistic intent and the role of the audience and how that affects what you create. And so that game, I think, has a lot more to say than the Stanley Parable does. I really enjoyed the Beginner's Guide, but I don't think, for reasons that we'll talk about later, I think the Stanley Parable deserves the top 100 list. Although personally I think I was more affected by the Beginner's Guide. I would highly recommend that one as well, slightly more, because it has more elements to it. Because as the guy's creating this game, you play different versions of this game. And so, so There's a bit more to it than there is in the Stanley parable, but it's not as reactionary, it's not as open world as the Stanley parable ends up being, if that makes sense. Even though everything's within, you know, a single building. Although the building might be more like the last house. But anyways, that's.
• 1:17:28
  We'll.
• 1:17:28
  We'll get into that later. That's my history with this game. And also, yeah, high. High recommendation for the Beginner's Guide as well. So. Do you have any history that you want to talk about Nate, outside of this is.
• 1:17:43
  I mean, I. I had heard about this game and, like, that's the thing is, like, I've always kind of been on, like, sort of hovered in, like, sort of, again, the games as art and the artsy, fartsy kind of, like, conversations. And this is a game that came up from time to time. And I just have. I do have, like. I just have to sort of own it. It's like, I do have a bit of a contrarian band. And so when, like, it's like, this might be one of the greatest games of all time, I'm just like. I'm like, you sure about that?
• 1:18:15
  Okay.
• 1:18:17
  And so playing it was really interesting. It did kind of. It did serve as a bit of a time machine kind of scenario where it's like. It took me back again. It took me back to, like, 2013 and that era of, like, game design and stuff like that, and it was. It was really pretty charming. And I. I. So I don't have a ton of baggage with it because I. I just. I didn't play it. I knew about it. I knew it was supposed to be something kind of special. And, yeah, I think two more. More or less a. It. It is special. I just, you know, and. And part of it is just again, kind of wrestling with the. Like, maybe. Maybe just certain types of games just aren't for me, you know?
• 1:19:08
  Yeah.
• 1:19:10
  That being said, I did, like. I do want to stress that I really did like it to. For the most part, and I did appreciate it. I just. Yeah. And again, it. It reminds me of just sort of even our conversation a little bit, maybe. Maybe not to the same extent, but like, about the Taos Principle, where it just kind of hit a point where it's like, I. I want to like this game way more than I actually like it. Like, my desire to like this game and it. Now that is like, I. I wouldn't say it's. That's.
• 1:19:48
  That.
• 1:19:48
  That was like The Talos Principle, where it's like, I wanted to like that game. And then when I actually started playing it, it was like I ended up playing, like, just kind of like, feeling really middling on it with this.
• 1:19:59
  Okay.
• 1:20:00
  I did the. The. I just have to, like, the writing carried it for me, like, and that's what it's supposed to do. But it was like. I just remember sometimes being like, okay, like, it's like I got the. You know, I. I get the point. It's like. But, like. But it just kind of left me whelmed.
• 1:20:27
  Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha.
• 1:20:29
  Okay, so.
• 1:20:30
  All right. Yeah. With those impressions and with our history, I think. I think now's a good time to. To dive into spoilers. What do you say?
• 1:20:39
  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and again, I don't know how much there is really to spoil, like, as far as, like, unique scenarios. And again, I would just. I do want to stress to people listening to, like, if you haven't played it at this point, just go play it. Like, it's 15 bucks.
• 1:20:54
  Exactly.
• 1:20:54
  There's a free demo on Steam. So, like, at the very least, you can do the demo. You can sort of see what that's about. And, you know, I'm like, do. Playthroughs of this game sometimes are like, 10 minutes long. Like, so. Yeah, it's. It's not long.
• 1:21:14
  Right? Yep. I agree. Go play it. Because after this point in the podcast, then we will be delving into some. That's right. Spoilers. We're doing some spoilers here just in terms of. Of. Of. We don't want to give away anything in the game, but now that everyone who's listening has either played the game.
• 1:21:40
  Knows what to do, or proceeded at their own peril.
• 1:21:43
  Yes. Yeah. Now. Now we can have a bit more of a freer conversation. And. And, I mean, I. I'd like to start at the beginning, if you're cool with that kind of backtracking a little bit where I said that the game opens. This was something that actually State of the Ark had another episode on. Of the greatest video game openings. And so this is kind of in the forefront of my mind. And while I would not say that this is one of the greatest video game openings, I think it is very intentional the way that this game opens.
• 1:22:16
  I think it's pretty good.
• 1:22:17
  Yeah. With Stanley sitting at his desk. And you note that the work that he does at his desk is extremely mundane. Now, you can say that this is just because this is a treatise against the capitalist system that treats. Treats people as just a cog in the machine. Yeah, you could go that route if you want to, but I think it's actually making a statement about what you're doing right now about playing video games, about control. Because. Because it tells him to push. It literally tells him to push buttons at specific times. And then later on throughout the game the narrator is telling you to go to different areas, which means pushing buttons at certain times. So I think, I think the, the beginning of this game is actually kind of cluing you on to the themes, some things that are going to be hit on throughout the rest of the game. And I just think that's really cool. Yeah, I don't know if I just want to jump in, but that stands out to me as I replay through it and it could end this game again.
• 1:23:33
  It could be a bit of like an exercise in the anti capitalist screed. It could be some not so subtle commentary on the futility of pointless labor. It could be a lot of things and it could be multiple things at once. So it could just sort of be like. And again, I do think with just the way that I think that you're sort of self referential interpretation where you're saying like the game is sort of telling you about itself and kind of like even like kind of, you know, for lack of a better term like taking a poke at you saying like, yeah, what you are doing, what Stanley is doing is stupid. And by proxy what you are doing is stupid. Not just because what Stanley is do, but also like you're the one who is actively playing the game and like pushing buttons. So. Yeah, yeah, yes, I think that's, that's not completely invalid.
• 1:24:34
  Yeah. And, and I say it not in that oh, the entire game is encapsulated in the beginning, but I do think it is, it is very intentional that it starts off that way. And so all that I'm saying is that the imagery and you know, the theme that it, that it's saying at the beginning there is what carries through the rest of the game that they with. And so this is where I wanted to, where I guess I said I'd put a pin in it and kind of bring it up later, is that I think the comedy of this game, like you said, is what protects it from being pretentious. Because throughout this game you get basically like a intro to philosophy throughout different because you have questions of what is choice, what does it really matter. There's even a route where Stanley basically goes insane because he's asking these questions and he's Deviating from the path. You have the narrator rustling through papers, trying to see what is through certain doors that you're wandering off into. You get into a bunch of crazy scenarios and. And the narrator will fairly often go into some basic level philosophy as he talks. But because it is comedic, I don't think playing through this game that the writers really had a point they were trying to drive home. I don't think this game is making a statement about the nature of choice. I don't. I think they're playing with these ideas and presenting and like throwing a bunch of stuff on the wall that you can play with in an interactive experience to introduce you to these ideas. But I don't think it's actually coming to any conclusions. And where other games, I might fault it for that in this game I think it's particularly fun because it feels as though it's like an intro course to. Intro. Yeah. Just to introduce ideas to you and have fun in a world that introduces those ideas. I don't think it's actually saying video games are pointless. Pushing buttons is pointless, you know.
• 1:26:58
  No. Well, I think it, it kind of. If it does say those things, it says them. It does sort of like sort of skirt that with comedy. So it's, it's more of like this is kind of silly and stupid, isn't this, you know, it's. It's kind of like it's inviting you to sort of laugh along with it.
• 1:27:26
  Yes.
• 1:27:27
  Versus there's a way to do it that's like sort of cynical and mean spirited. And the game now the, the narrator can definitely be a little mean spirited. He's a, you know, again that, that passive aggressive thing. Yeah, I think. And again I just go back to. I think it can be more than one thing. So I think there is probably like some commentary, you know, and thought exercises put down on paper to maybe wrestle with like what does choice mean? What does. What does like choosing something actually mean? What does that. Like whether the consequences of these things, like what like is it. Is there. Does agency actually exist or are you just sort of another cog in the machine? And I think you can ask those questions in a way that is a little bit disarming, a little bit sort of like just funny like tongue in cheek, kind of like poking. And you may not, it may not be. Again it may not be like the, the sort of the pretentious like you know, we're doing 300 level sort of like you know, examination of ethics or whatever. But it is, it's kind of you know, I, again, I just go back to the statement, like, it can be more than one thing there. I think there is some, like, commentary in the game. I think they do have a position. They do sort of like, yeah, like they do have things that they are saying, but I think they're also not taking those things super seriously. Like, it's more like, it's kind of like asking the question, like, isn't that silly, like, to like this? Like, if, if we're thinking about futility and you're just here pushing buttons and Stanley's just pushing buttons. Like, isn't the whole sort of like, premise a little absurd? You know? Sure. And again, I just think, I think it can be both.
• 1:29:23
  So, yeah, I, I, I, I can agree with you that there is certainly like, that maybe that's, that's the idea, is that it is all just absurd because I think as I've looked more into the game, not necessarily playing it, but also like looking at YouTube and stuff like that and looking at all the endings. This game is inconsistent in its endings. There is not a, there are, you know, four or five endings that cannot be true. I talked about like the one where Stanley goes insane. Right. So obviously, like, if the, if the creators actually wanted to make a statement about something, then, then all of these different lines would carry over similar themes and they would stay consistent, I think, of something like, you know, there's a mystery. Well, even, even, oh my gosh, Echoes of the eye, the outer wilds. You know, there's a mystery why you continually wake up and all that stuff, but everything that you do is consistent throughout that game. There's nothing that's like, wildly different that cannot be true. Like, different routes of this game cannot both be true. You know, like, like there's unless, unless you say every route except the certain route is a simulation, which is just dumb because there's, because nothing in the game hints to any of that. And also taking in the different endings, the best ending, the quote unquote, best ending, the one where, where the narrator actually gets his way, if you follow, if you follow everything that the narrator tells you to do, you eventually end up in paradise. Like, Stanley gets out and the narrator even says he goes home and him and his, his girlfriend, like, pledge their love to one another. Like, and you're walking through the grass. And so like, the best ending is if you actually follow the narrator. Now. Yes. Is that a statement against, like, oh, maybe you shouldn't stray from the path or, or, you know, is, is, do you really have Any choice, like, yes, there are things contained in that. But what I'm saying is that because even the best ending isn't satisfying and cannot also be true while other endings are true. The game, I don't think, is trying to make a statement. It could. It's throwing out a bunch of different things, is the way.
• 1:32:04
  Yeah, I don't think it's making a single solitary, like, statement. And I don't think it's like, sort of like this weird anti capitalist screed. Right. I think there are probably some of that in there.
• 1:32:16
  Right. There's a joke about. There's a joke about it in the same way that, that. Oh my gosh, why can't I think of the name of the movie where they beat up the printer?
• 1:32:27
  Oh, Office Space.
• 1:32:28
  Office Space. There you go. In the same way that Office Space is a joke against that same thing, you know, but then they get their comeuppance, you know, things like that. Like, it's not. It's not seriously making a statement about it, but it is. It is in there.
• 1:32:44
  Well, yeah, I mean, but there's. There's sort of. Okay. And even in Office Space there is sort of. I think there are like, for lack of a better term, profound truths that can be extrapolated from that. Like, think about like all the work that they. And it's funny and we laugh about it because it's kind of ridiculous to watch people sort of like bend themselves in half. But it's like, you know, think about it. It's like, you know, these guys do this thing to sort of defraud their employer of all this money. And part of the reason that they're. They're doing that is because they're just immensely dissatisfied with the way that they've been treated, et cetera. So there's something in there that you can sort of like, you can pull out a little bit and say, like, you know, the role of just like it is good to. Well, and in a lot of ways the. So in. In particular, that scene where they're just like curb stomping that fax machine.
• 1:33:55
  Yes.
• 1:33:55
  It's like they're kind of like venting their anger against this thing that is a bit of like. It's kind of a cipher. It's a cipher like for the crappy bosses. It's a cipher for like the garbage work, them being underappreciated and like. More. More particularly like, I think the, the copy machine, slash, fax machine is also a bit of a cipher. Just like it stands in as Sort of just like any sort of impediment or just like unnecessary, sort of like obstacle or burden that is heaped on you. And they're just like thing sort of exists almost to be the bane of their existence. And so there is a part of them where it's like just. And again, it's not anything like life changing. Like, I think that the funny part is like, because we can all sort of sympathize, like, right.
• 1:34:48
  It does feel good to be a gangster. We all know that.
• 1:34:52
  But it also, like we look at that and it's a little cathartic. It's a little like therapeutic where it's like we all have that thing.
• 1:34:58
  Yeah, the opening scene where he's sitting in traffic. You know, we've all been there.
• 1:35:04
  Well, in particular with the copier. Like, we all have those things where it's like, if I could just destroy this thing, like, it would sort of like bring about like a wholeness or a peace. And I, I just think, like I said, I'm not sure that there's anything like deeply profound. And I don't think I honestly, I think the best messages aren't the ones that are heavy handed and preachy. And that's, I think, part of what makes stuff like this effective because it asks questions. It asks, it asks what if? Yeah, like, you know, what if, what if? Like so and so. One of the things. And again, I'm not sure that it's like this super heavy handed answer or question, but like one of the things that when you do what the narrator says and you listen and you obey, you're rewarded for that. So maybe in a way they're saying like, hey, what about this question? Like, maybe obedience is a path to happiness. Like, I don't think. And I, I don't think they're like, I don't think it's like this super heavy, weighty thing where they're, they're not trying to have this like super weighty conversation. That's why everything is kind of a gag. That's why everything is kind of a joke.
• 1:36:23
  Joke.
• 1:36:23
  That's why everything is like kind of not taken seriously. But it's like there are still truths in there. And like they can say something and be like, okay, like, hey, this is a, this is a maxim that we think is at least worth like exploring or wrestling with or whatever. But also like we're doing it in kind of like a cheeky, fun way. Like, and again, it comes back to that. It doesn't have to be either or I Think it's like kind of both ends, like. And maybe. Maybe that's not the author's intent sometimes, but maybe. Maybe it is. I mean, you know, but.
• 1:36:59
  Yeah, Yeah, I. I just don't find it to have a consistent message throughout. Well, I don't has.
• 1:37:06
  I think it's just a series of questions. It's a series of vignettes.
• 1:37:10
  Yeah.
• 1:37:10
  Saying like, what if? What if what? Yeah, I don't think there's like one grand, like, unifying theme to the game.
• 1:37:17
  Right?
• 1:37:18
  I think it's like. Or maybe the grand unifying theme is like, hey, like, little. Oh, yeah, I. The. There might be like, one, but it's. It's more about like this sort of just like the.
• 1:37:39
  The end is not the end.
• 1:37:41
  No, the end is not. The end is not. The end is not. The end is not the end. But maybe it's. It's kind of like this thing where it's like. Because part of it is just repeating the same scenario, making minute adjustments and just saying like, maybe like a grand unifying theme of the game is just sort of saying like, hey, like something that seems relatively insignificant or that you don't think about can have drastic consequences. I don't know. But I don't even think they, like. I think they're probably. They're like, comfortable throwing that. That. That out there. So I'm like, hey, isn't this kind of like, look at how silly this is. And like, you know, like, look at how we can kind of have fun with this idea. But yeah, I don't think there's like, yeah, these, like. I don't think it's a super deep or profound game. I don't think. Yeah, there's like. I don't think there's like this massive, like, unifying point that, like, the whole thing. Experience coagulates around. Right. Or collects around. But rather it's this. This thing where it's. It's almost invites you to have a little bit of a conversation with the game about these things. Like, ask questions to wrestle with it yourself. But. But it does it in a way that is disarming and kind of, you know, ridiculously clever and a little bit insulting at times.
• 1:39:06
  Yeah, yeah. In a way that kind of goads you on, though. You know, it does constantly reward you with new scenarios and things and. Yeah, yeah. So it's. It's very fun. Like you said, very clever. I have this written down in the notes, and I forgot to kind of bring it up earlier, but I said that this game is. Is Like a two way petting zoo. If you remember what the two way petting zoo is. That's from, that's, that's from the office. It was an idea that they would have that they would do a two way petting zoo. And when asked, Jim says, well, it's where you pet the, the animals and the animals pet you back. And in the same way this video game, you play this video game, but this video game also plays you.
• 1:39:53
  It kind of plays you. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I, I think like, you know, sort of looking at the notes here, you know, to just wrestle with the question, does it still hold up and do we agree with it where it is on our top 100? I think it does hold up. And again, I just sort of preface that. Like I kind of realized that this isn't necessarily like my type of game.
• 1:40:22
  Okay.
• 1:40:22
  But I do sort of. I did find myself laughing at it. I did find myself enjoying it from time to time. And I think. And again, I just stress that I think the humor actually sort of like insulates it from a lot of like, harsher criticisms. Like, if this game took itself a little bit more seriously, it would not be. It. Like, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. We probably wouldn't be worrying about it. But because it does kind of like it takes. You know, I keep wanting to say this and I'm just gonna. It's, it's. It's a not. It's not a super nice word, boys and girls, so don't say it like. But this is a sort of a British term, but it takes the piss out of itself and by doing so it actually makes itself, I think, a little more viable long term. Yeah, a lot more viable long term.
• 1:41:12
  I, I agree. I do think it definitely holds up. And it is funny that it's been remade, you know, all that stuff. So in terms of, of that it's, it's such a simple game, but I do think it holds up. And the reason that I think it still continues to deserve a spot on our top 100 games. I was thinking about this this week, is that what makes this game special and unique among kind of the. All the different video games that are out there is that this is very, this is a game that is very unique to the medium. The Stanley parable cannot be told as, as a movie or as a book or as a.
• 1:42:00
  It has to be experienced this way. Like, even the incredibly limited interactivity that you have with a game is necessary as a precursor. Like it is required for you to have Any understanding or meaningful sort of like dialogue with the game.
• 1:42:24
  Yep. And because in addition to that, because of its simplicity, I can recommend this game to anyone who's interested in video games and even maybe someone who's not interested in just like checking out what are video games about. I think this game is pretty much universal that even if you have 30 minutes, check it out, try it out. Like I think my parents would have an interesting time with this game. You know what I mean? Yeah, I, I think it's pretty much the only people that I can think of that that would not like it would be. I know of some people that first person games, 3D games make them nauseous. And so if that's the case, well, that stinks, you know, this one's gonna be harder for you.
• 1:43:11
  At least they make that claim.
• 1:43:14
  Yeah, yeah. No, not naming any names, but no, I mean I've, I've said that I've got Nauseous playing some games here, here lately too. So that could be me. That could be me. But I think that's what stands out to me is that it's universal appeal and because it's comedic and because of its simplicity and it is a game that it's very unique to the medium of video games. And because of that. Yeah, I think it still deserves a place. Well, I'm fine with it lower in.
• 1:43:44
  The list, but no, I think 92 is a good spot. I think it's like, I don't think it, I don't like, if I'm being honest, I don't think it breaks out of the 90s because it is a game that very much walks. So other games can fly or run.
• 1:44:00
  Okay.
• 1:44:02
  I don't know what those other games are, but it's sort of a game that exists as sort of a, an individual piece that other people can sort of draw from and sort of take inspiration from. And it, and again, I think it asks interesting questions.
• 1:44:25
  Right.
• 1:44:25
  Of the player and of just that experience. And I think, yeah, I think it's, it's a pretty masterful game. I just, I also just think it's like at times I'm just like, that's not, it's not my vibe. But that's just, that's just me being a stinker, you know. But I do, like I said, I do think it's good. Earlier in the day I was kind of wrestling with, it was like, do, do I think it belongs on the list? And I said, I think I think so. Until we can find something that does. Does that Better, you know.
• 1:45:00
  Yeah. I think it's closest kind of analog, and even then, it's still pretty far in my mind would be what Remains of Edith Finch, which is also on our list, but that's for very different reasons. That is a much more serious game, but it's more subtle with its themes, if that makes sense. It does require more out of you.
• 1:45:21
  You know, I think one. I think it's. It's much more of a game. What. What Remains of Edith Finch, I think it's much more of a game than this. Like, it. There's. There's a lot of different components to that. Yeah. That bathtub scene still just wrecks me. Just guts me. But. Yeah, but I think it. They're sort of. Yeah. Like, And. And what remains takes itself a lot more seriously. Oh. Like, it's like. Yeah.
• 1:45:55
  Yeah.
• 1:45:55
  Whereas I think. Yeah, I. I think with the Stanley parable, it's just like. Like, yeah, it's like you said. Yeah.
• 1:46:07
  It doesn't. It doesn't take itself seriously. Yeah.
• 1:46:09
  And I think that's. That's kind of like there. There is some wisdom or some. Some interesting insights there, but it just. The. The humor, again, makes all that stuff a lot more palatable.
• 1:46:22
  Yeah.
• 1:46:22
  So.
• 1:46:23
  Yeah.
• 1:46:23
  Yeah, I think. I think it's fine where it's at.
• 1:46:27
  Yeah.
• 1:46:27
  I don't see it, like, I don't see it breaking out of the 90s just because I think. I think it's. It's. It's very good, but it's not great. Kind of like, in my opinion, but.
• 1:46:39
  Okay. Okay. I. Well, for. For reasons I just explained, I would say that it's great, but only, like, it's exceptional, but not in the sense that it's going to change your life, but in that it's an experience that I would recommend. It's.
• 1:46:54
  It's very, like, it's unique. It is very one of a kind. Like, there are things that kind of approach it. Like, you know, like, I would say, like, I think the original Portal kind of evokes some of those things. And again, like, it. This, like, on the surface, like, the narrator is a bit of an antagonistic foil at. Sometimes Glados is just flat out trying to murder you. So. Yeah. But. Yeah, I wouldn't remove it from the list. Like, it's. But it's. It's like, to me, it's like, it just doesn't go much higher. It's like, it's a very good game. I think it's kind of foundational. I don't think that it's required playing or reading, but I think it comes really close. So.
• 1:47:43
  Yeah. Cool. Well, another question that we have here on the list in our notes, one that we like to ask of a lot of these games is just about pro. You know, we are, we're Christians. And so this podcast, you know, we seek to equip and encourage the church here. And so what just approaching this game from a biblical worldview. Is there anything to say about this game? And at first I was kind of, I was kind of back and forth on this because I don't. Again, I don't think the game really says that much, but as I was thinking about this more and some of the themes that it does touch on, there is something that stands out to me. I'll just go ahead and go for it. And then if you'd like to kind of add anything, you're welcome to, but this game does not even necessarily wrestle with, but at least plays with, I'll put it that way, plays with the ideas of choice and your effect on the future and purpose, meaning. And if someone else is telling your story. And what stands out to me, as I think about that, from a biblical worldview, which again, this is like in a very joking context within the course of the game. But what stands out to me is that we serve a God that is so amazing, that both are true, that we have freedom to make choices in.
• 1:49:12
  Our life that are meaningful.
• 1:49:14
  That are meaningful. Yes, yes. That we're responsible for before a holy God, and yet he is also sovereign. So that he uses all of the acts of mankind, even our most evil acts. And that's something that some. That really comes to mind over this Easter weekend. Crucifying the Lord of Glory, the Son of God. He uses even the most evil and wicked acts of human beings who are making choices to do evil, and he uses them within his plan, within his good plan, to bring about goodness and glory. So, yes, there's all kinds of different things, you know, that we could go into in the way that he redeems broken things, but also just the fact that he can both. Like in this game, you know, there's a narrator and there's obviously you kind of controlling Stanley. He is the, the, the writer of the grand story of all of history, but in a way in which he gives us the ability to choose while also, while also planning this story that includes the choices that we will make, which is just. I mean, it's, it's mind blowing. So while this game kind of like toys around with some of these ideas. The real truth is that, yes, we have a will, like we can make choices. Now those choices are obviously going to be led by our passions and our desires and our sinful desires. But we can make choices throughout the world that, that are real, that have weight and, and we bear responsibility for our choices, but also that that the grand narrator, the grand writer of all of history, the God that we serve, is sovereign over all of it and is bringing about everything to its glorious end. And so there is purpose and meaning, both from our perspective, but also from God's as well. He's purposing all things together for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. So that's what sticks out to me when I think about it from a biblical worldview. Is it that extrapolating a bit much?
• 1:51:46
  Yeah, maybe, yeah. I don't think it has all that much to offer. I think sort of there's some interesting things like I do think about just sort of like the idea of that initial sort of playthrough where you just obey and how like, it's like there's something there, but I don't think it's Again, I don't think there is this sort of like grand meta narrative that it's trying to expound upon. I think it's right, it's, it's, there's a lot of gags and I think like, there is like some cleverness and some thoughtfulness and they're wrestling with those things. But at the end of the day, like, yeah, I don't think it has anything like, really wild to say. I think it has things to say and it does ask questions. But yeah, those aren't necessarily even questions that like our faith should be afraid to reckon with or deal with or wrestle with.
• 1:52:44
  So yeah, yeah, good stuff, man. All right.
• 1:52:49
  But yeah, I am struggling. I am on the struggle bus. I did want to, before we sort of left, before we sort of of move on to the, the final forms here. I did want to just, it's a little bit of a, not an asterisk but you, you know, into the Aether did an episode on this not too, too long ago. I can't remember what number it is. I, I, I looked it up and I listened to it today. It now and again they're, they're talking about the Ultra Deluxe version. And so there's, there's going to be stuff where it is a fascinating sort of commentary about the game without actually saying much of anything about the game. And that sounds really weird. And it is really weird, but it's also kind of delightful and. Yeah.
• 1:53:46
  Nice.
• 1:53:47
  So that, that episode of, of into the Aether, like, like let me see if I can pull it up and.
• 1:53:57
  Just, I think it was like May of 22, something like that.
• 1:54:00
  Yeah, it, it is older but yeah, it's, it's worth a listen. It's weird and it's kind of like, it doesn't make sense at first but if you hang on it, it sort of, I, I, I did, I was, I was delighted by their execution. I thought it was just, I thought it was just so stinking clever. But we also just sort of like, you know, and for you guys who have been hanging with us the whole time, this is going to seem a little redundant. But we do just like that, sort of like wrap it up with a little bit of what we call the tldl. Too long. Didn't listen. We've already talked about who made it. It's, I gotta pull up Galaxy Cafe, Galactic Cafe. Galactic Cafe. They were the developer and the publisher. And what is it? It's essentially a walking simulator. It's, it's a, it's a comedy game. It's, it's a comedy game disguised as a walking simulator that reacts to what.
• 1:55:03
  You do throughout the game.
• 1:55:05
  Yeah, there you go. And, and sometimes very passively aggressively berates you.
• 1:55:13
  I didn't say what kind of reactions. It just gives you reactions.
• 1:55:16
  You just get reactions. Who should play it? I would say I think most people, most students of video games should play this. I don't think it's, I don't think it's 100% necessary, but I think it is useful and it is good. So. Yeah. Would you agree? Disagree. Provide any additional caveats?
• 1:55:39
  I agree. Who should play it? Anyone? Anyone who's interested in, in video games at all, which is a large swath of people.
• 1:55:46
  I think it's definitely like you, you want to wait, you do want to wait until there's like sort of a. Yeah, I wouldn't let a 5 year old play this.
• 1:55:56
  Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:55:58
  Well yeah, I mean I think, I do think most people like. Yeah, I think again, most people should play this. But it's like just as far as like even thinking about ages. I would say like early teens at the earliest. So what should you keep in mind while playing? I think for me, if I'm being honest, the thing is there's nothing super profound here. It's enjoyable. It kind of winks and nods at you and there are questions that it asks like the experience sort of begs certain questions. But it is a game that you can just sort of like you can. And it's. I think it's not only acceptable, but it's actually maybe in some ways preferred. You can just sort of enjoy the ride and laugh and. So like, what kind of like ridiculousness are we getting into? That's, that's, I think the, the thing that. Just like that. Hey, keep that in mind. And I think that will make the game a lot more to like, enjoyable.
• 1:57:06
  So, yeah, I'd say. What should you keep in mind while playing that there's not a hugely satisfying end state to the game? Just play it and enjoy it. And if you're not enjoying it and set it back, set it down.
• 1:57:25
  Yeah, yeah. Why does it matter? I think it matters because it's. I think what you said, Josh, about the fact that it is a. It is something. It is a rare thing, I think in video games that in a lot of ways that it doesn't hold. There's no like sort of parallel experiences. You can't read the book, you can't watch the movie and sort of get it. You have to just, you have to just. You have to play the game to get it.
• 1:58:02
  Yeah. I would give this a similar answer to the next question is why is it on the top 100? It's because it's very unique to the medium of video games. I think the closest analog would be something like Stranger Than Fiction if you've seen that movie. But imagine that. But you were actually in control of the main character. And so that gives it a whole different feeling rather than watching someone else experience something like that. Now you're the one experiencing it and there's direct feedback by the narrator when you do things.
• 1:58:37
  So yeah, yeah. Where can you find it? So it is available on just the base Stanley Parable. Not the Stanley Parable. Ultra Deluxe is available on Windows, Mac OS and Linux. Ultra. Ultra Deluxe released on consoles.
• 1:58:59
  So, yeah, so pretty much all modern consoles. You can play it on or on computer, different OS there. So basically everywhere is where you can play it.
• 1:59:14
  Yeah, yeah. Well, for. Yeah. And the Ultra Deluxe version does include the base content.
• 1:59:21
  Right.
• 1:59:22
  So, yeah, so it is available pretty much everywhere. Yeah, but yeah. Well, that being said, Josh, we have sort of gone through the game.
• 1:59:32
  We've.
• 1:59:33
  We've shared some thoughts and I think it's time to just kind of land this plane and. But on our way out, are there any shout outs that you would like to offer to anybody in our community?
• 1:59:46
  Yeah. I wanted to shout out to Bergen and Papa Wargs in Discord just for the. We're doing this active April thing and they are killing it. They're. They're giving us their updates and their progress on. On weight loss in there and. And them two in particular. I'm just like, dang. Well, I'm not winning this year because.
• 2:00:08
  Well, I think part of it is we. You did go with a. Just straight weight loss and not percentage. And so it. It's. Yeah.
• 2:00:20
  Yeah. But they're still.
• 2:00:21
  But no.
• 2:00:22
  Doing awesome. Keep it up.
• 2:00:23
  Yeah. Well done, gentlemen.
• 2:00:24
  Motivating.
• 2:00:25
  So, yeah, well done.
• 2:00:26
  Shout out to you guys.
• 2:00:28
  Yeah, it's. It's pretty cool, but I think for me it's gonna be Jono and Spike in the let's Study Channel had an interesting conversation about God's sovereign will versus man's free will. And like, it's. That's a touchy topic, especially in light of our current episode. It kind of. There's a little bit of overlap. It's kind of nice. Makes me laugh a little bit. But like those. Those dudes. Guys, well done. Like, that was a really interesting conversation and I'm glad to see that you guys are having those, but also that you kept it civil. You were adults. Good job. So shout.
• 2:01:18
  Well done.
• 2:01:21
  So last sort of last form before we really sort of close this thing out. I think, Josh, that I need to know that about. Well, I need to know. What is your question?
• 2:01:34
  Oh, that's right. So your quest. We have a question for everyone. That question is what is your question? What is your question for us? You guys have submitted some questions. We've picked out our favorites and we're going to answer them here today. So the one that I picked out, and actually I picked one out before there was kind of a windfall of other questions. So sorry, not sorry. Get them in early, I guess, is all that I can say. But my question comes from McKelvis in our. In our discord. He asks, how do you feel about using guides, walkthroughs, exploits, cheats, etc, and how it takes away from gaming versus figuring everything out yourself or vice versa. I thought this was an interesting question because just some of the things that I've different. Different ways that I've been experiencing games. So my default is that I generally try not to use guides. So case in point, I was talking about the Banner Saga earlier and how I didn't know much about the game going in and that was by design and I let it carry me through the experience And I think for most games. Okay, here's my hot take. I think for most games that that is the ideal way to play it. That is the way that the developer creates the game is that you don't have anyone helping you along with. With different things throughout the game. However, I do think there are exceptions to that, particularly. Another game that I talked about earlier was Ace Attorney 2, in which I did use a guide because I wasn't interested in figuring out a lot of the way that the game requires you to. To think in. In its different puzzles and the. The point and click adventure kind of aspects of those games. Just, I don't enjoy them and so. But I do enjoy the story and I wanted to see what happened next. I just. I would get very frustrated because I. I wouldn't understand how things would work together throughout the game. So I think there are instances in which I will go to games and I don't mind losing a certain aspect of figuring things out by myself. But by and large, I generally try my hardest not to resort to guides unless I have to. That's me personally. I know not everyone does it that way. Frankly, I think that's kind of crazy. But if you know what you're getting into, I suppose you could just start off a game with a guide. But I generally don't do that. So that's my two cents.
• 2:04:24
  Yeah, just the quick answer is it mostly depends. I am probably a lot more like pro. More pro guy than you like. The way that I look at it is that I want to extract maximum benefit from my experience. And so like there are games where I have found it to be much more beneficial to have sort of. And it, it's. I tend to use it more as like a safety net. So it's like I'm playing and there might be like an optimal path. Like I want the optimal path. Like when it was. When we did Persona 3 reload, I followed a guide for that. That because one, you know, we. We don't have all the time in the world. And so it's like we. We were doing. We were doing. We were going to do an episode. So I, I did need to sort of have a road map there. I didn't have the luxury of. But also I just found it to be more enjoyable, like in the sense that like, it's nice to have like, hey, if I can figure some of those things out on my own, that's cool. But it's also nice to have like a handhold where I can just like sort of latch onto it and sort of pull myself through this situation. And I think the thing is like, I think that just, that's an inherent problem for our for video games for this medium. Just because like with movies, you know, you don't need the movie just sort of. It unspools itself. Like you, you just watch the movie and it just, you know, plays on your TV or whatever. For books, again, you just turn the page and that you're kind of guided through this. But with this there's that exploratory kind of like figure it out kind of thing that I like for the most part but at times can be a little bit tedious and when it, it is just too much, I'm just like man, like yeah, like I'm good. Just keep going. Yeah. So yeah, my best question I, I have to find it here because oh, I did find it comes from Wesley and it's from a while back and he asked it a while back and I think we kind of dodged it because it's kind of big. But I'm going to read it and we're going to try to answer it quickly. So. Apologies for interrupting the poop conversation, but I've had a bit of a long question that I've been wanting to chew on for a few, so buckle up. I had a brief discussion with Paul about this when it was announced, but the news from Xbox relating to their Muse model was very intriguing to me. Here's a snippet from the official early or the official press release. Although it is still early, this model of research is pushing the boundaries of what we thought was possible. We are already using Muse to develop a real time playable AI model trained on other first party games. And we see potential for this work work to one day benefit players and game creators from allowing us to revive nostalgic games to faster creative ideation. Today, countless classic games tied to aging hardware are no longer playable by most people. Thanks to this breakthrough, we are exploring the potential for Muse to take older back catalog games from our standard up from our studios and optimize them for any device. We believe this could radically change how we preserve and experience classic games in the future. Make them accessible to more players. The little aside that they put in their press release wasn't even the main focus, but the application of such an AI model sounds unbelievably amazing. My question would be then, how do you see this type of technology changing the landscape of retro gaming and retro archival emulation and preservation? The idea of being able to take what is essentially a rom and have AI design a customized experience around it with whatever specific tweaks and adjustments you want made to make whatever you want to make. Sounds absolutely fascinating to me. And I think that this type of assistive AI technology could either be really, really helpful for the industry or could absolutely go up in flames and destroy everything. Given that the capability just essentially would lead to an absolute deluge of terrible shovelware, level of mods and adjustments to games we love, it's going to be really fascinating to see where it goes. So, all that being said, I would pretty much agree with you, Wesley. I think I'm a little more hesitant. Like, I think when exercised well, it's really cool. Like, you know, you use AI to sort of build out a game that's stranded on an older platform. You know, cool. Like, I don't have, like, that use case scenario. Doesn't sound incredibly offensive to me. It sounds kind of interesting. The problem is that that's never where it stops. So, yeah, like.
• 2:09:22
  So, yeah, I think. I think in general that it sounds like a really cool tool. I think of things like you're talking about having, like, building custom emulators for games. I think of using that on consoles. So while we have, like tons of emulators available nowadays on PC already, this sounds like a tool because, like, in theory, all you would have to do is feed. Train the AI on the game that you want it to learn and then train the AI on the console that you want it to replicate. Now, not necessarily that you have the BIOS to that console, because that. That might get into some weird stuff. Stuff. But it sounds like, in theory, that that would totally be possible to recreate something like that and then on the console that you want the emulator to run on. And it seems like, again, in theory, that AI could be a tool to get you 90% of the way there. And then you just put in a little bit of work to kind of fix things. And if it. If it trashes the game, then it trashes the game. So I think the potential there for, or if you want to call it games preservation, I just think of, like, ports basically, you know, porting old games so that it's playable on newer hardware. Sounds awesome, I think.
• 2:10:53
  Or rebuilding a version of that game. Yeah, essentially.
• 2:10:57
  Yeah.
• 2:10:58
  I'm pretty sure there was like a doom version of this at some point in time.
• 2:11:03
  Okay, okay. I mean, let me check dooms on everything. But that said. Yeah, could people use it for other things? And. Yeah, could it make, you know, tons of mods like, you're talking about. Yes, I suppose it would open the door to that, to where you can just kind of.
• 2:11:22
  It's an AI generated version of Quake 2 in a web browser.
• 2:11:27
  Wow.
• 2:11:27
  That's what it is.
• 2:11:28
  That's cool. That's cool. I think, I don't think that that would necessarily destroy a lot of things on the, the things that it would destroy would be things like, I mean, I'm thinking of like professional level speed running, you know, would be very difficult to kind of to, to tell when and you're using AI and stuff like that. I'd imagine. I, I'd imagine some of those higher level technical things or esports or something like, it could pose some problems in those cases. But I don't think. Okay, just, just unleashing a bunch of mods is really much of a problem because the mod scene is one in which you have like a lot of these different kind of people who are very much attuned to those things. So, so it sounds in theory pretty cool. I, I, I know I've been talking for a little bit, but I don't have too much of an opinion on it. It, except that it sounds like a cool tool to use. I would imagine there would still be some legwork you'd need to put in to clean up, but for the most part it sounds really cool.
• 2:12:37
  Yeah. Well, that being said, I am fading. It is late and we still have, we still have a little bit left after this, so. That being said, Josh, we did the things.
• 2:12:50
  We did the things.
• 2:12:51
  Well, guys, tell, tell people where they can find us.
• 2:12:54
  You can find us on our link tree. That's linktree.com thebacklogbreakdown we have all our social medias reach out to us. Let us know what endings we missed in the Stanley parable. Actually.
• 2:13:06
  Yeah. Which ones we didn't talk about because we were talking most of them.
• 2:13:10
  Yeah, Jim, I don't know. I haven't played Ultra Deluxe. We'll see. But anyway. Well, the end is not the end, but this is the end.
• 2:13:18
  The end is not the end but this is the end of this, of this. So until next time, guys.
• 2:13:24
  Yeah. Keep beating down your backlogs and we'll keep breaking down the.