Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / THE FBI JOINS INVESTIGATION INTO KYRON HORMAN'S DISAPPEARANCE

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THE FBI JOINS INVESTIGATION INTO KYRON HORMAN'S DISAPPEARANCE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: A little boy goes into school bright and early one
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: morning for his science project, and he's never seen again.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: In the last hours, a major development in the search
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: for little Kyne Horman. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us in
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: the last days. The missing person case of a little boy,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Kirne Horman is set to be reviewed by the FBI.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Kyraen disappeared from his own elementary school. His mother has
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: accused his then stepmother of being involved. But now a
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: fresh look on a cold case. What happened when little
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Kyne disappeared?
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Which started as another school morning soon turn into a
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: nightmare for parents of seven year old Hyrian Horman, who
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: unexplicably vanished from a school science fair, A suspicious drive,
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: an alleged accomplice, and a murder. For higher plot, Where
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: is little Kyn Horman?
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: This is a question that has gone through our minds
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: and hearts over and over and over. Joining me an
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: all star panel to make sense of what we are
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: learning about Kyn's disappearance. But first I want to go
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to a very special guest. Kien's father is joining us.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Kin Horman Kane, thank you for being with us.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Hi, thanks for having me Kine.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I know you've been asked this before, specifically my police
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: and many many other law enforcement but could you go
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: back to the day that when you learn Kiren has disappeared?
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Just seven years old at the time.
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was at work that day and came home
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: after I was in the office and went to walk
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: down to the bus stop that's down our driveway and
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: went down to meet him when he gets off the bus,
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: something we do pretty much on every day. And the
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: bus came down and the door opened, and the bus
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: driver looked at us a little bit puzzled and had
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: mentioned that he was not on the bus, and that
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: came as a shock, and we talked to her for
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: a few minutes, at which time we ran back up
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: to the house and got in the car and went
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: up to the school to try to find out what
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: was happening. While we were making phone calls on the way.
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: So it was a very shocking situation at that point
• 2:45
  Speaker 5: in time. And then went to the school, talked to
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: the teachers and faculty up there, placed the call the
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: nine one one, and that's when the Sheriff's office got involved.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: And just kind of evolved from there.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about that trip, that frantic drive that
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: you made to the school came I'm projecting. I remember
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I was in New York and I had just gotten
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: the children bathed and in their pajamas and called home
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: and found out my dad was on life support. Within
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: about fifteen minutes through, we're out on the street, trying
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: to hail a cab to hopefully get a flight home,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that trek, trying to get home, trying to get.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Somewhere to get to my dad.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Will you describe those moments where you are frantically on
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: the phone, you're driving, You're trying to get your facts
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: together and find out everything you can. What was going
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: through your mind? What happened on that trip back to
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: the school.
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: Well, it was just a very I don't know that
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: I have a good description of it, very visceral.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: Panic. Nothing, I mean, sheer panic.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: The one thing or one of you know, one of
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  Speaker 5: the top things I think most parents fear is their
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: their children going missing. You want to protect them, you
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: want to be able to know where they are at
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: all times. And I was just panicked. It was just terror.
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: I don't remember much else. I remember just I think
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: what I've you know, learned since then about trauma response,
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: I think that it was in just full trauma mode
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: at that point in time. You know, everything just looked different,
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: the scenery looked different. On the drive up, there just
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: everything racing through my mind of you know, all the
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: different scenarios that could play out. But it was honestly,
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: it was terror. I couldn't even really explain the thoughts
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  Speaker 5: at that point. It was sheer panic.
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: You know.
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  Speaker 1: Another thing Kane Hormon guys joining us is Kyen's dad. Kane.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Many people would say it's not their fault, they just
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: haven't lived through it. Well, it's no big deal that
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  Speaker 2: he's not on the bus, because what if he stayed
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: on the playground and was playing and the bus left
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  Speaker 2: without him.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: What if he stayed in one of the rooms and
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: was doing an extra assignment.
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  Speaker 2: There's something called routine evidence evidence of routine. It would be,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: for instance, if everybody got together and came here and
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: it's time to get hooked up to you and no, Nancy,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: that has never happened. It means something. It's significant. How
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: did you know here and here in your head and
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: your heart when he did not get off that bus
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: when those doors swung open. How did you know instinctively
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: something was very wrong. It wasn't just playing on the
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: playground or staying in the classroom.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's exactly how you describe it. Button the bus comes,
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  Speaker 5: he gets off. Every day, there's y'all want to discussion around,
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: you know, whether or not he was at school still
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: or you know, other things, and he just very routine,
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: Like you said, I don't know that we had a
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: situation where he ever missed the bus up until then.
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: And I'll recall him, you know, being on the playground
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: or in the classroom without us knowing about it. And
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  Speaker 5: I think that's the main thing is usually I think
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: in a lot of those circumstances, if there's something after school,
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: you usually notified, and the school's usually really good about
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: doing that.
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  Speaker 4: So it was just an immediate.
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: Response that something's definitely off, because we either would have
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: heard or he'd be stepping off those bus steps right now.
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  Speaker 5: So exactly what you described, it was pretty much like
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: clockwork every day, and that was just the one day
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: that it wasn't.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Well you got to the school. What happened when
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: you got there?
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  Speaker 5: I remember trying to locate teachers. The three of us
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: were up there, so we were trying to locate and
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: ask questions about, you know, where he was at, if
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: he was still there, kind of the things that we
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: just talked about, just getting a rundown. And they had
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: indicated that he was not there that day, that he
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: had been absent from school from the basically the beginning
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: of the day, which then was an additional shocks.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Oh my stars, that just makes my stomach hurt.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Your whole day, you're going about your.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Business, you're working, you're this, you're that, You're making calls,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: you're sending emails the whole time. You think he's fine
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: at school, and he was not there.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: He was not checked in. Right when you say the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: three of.
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  Speaker 2: You, I can just imagine getting to the school is
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: still kind of drop off pick up, everything's going crazy,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: and you rushing in probably to the office, going where's
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: kym and where is he?
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  Speaker 1: Where is he? I can't find.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Anything off the bus, And then you learn he wasn't
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: checked in even to his very first class.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: He said, the three of you, who is with you?
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: His stepmom and my daughter.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, let me think this through.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: You get to the school and who was it that
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: told you he was never even here?
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly, I don't remember. I know we had started
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: talking to somebody and then more people kind of gathered
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: around in the.
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  Speaker 4: Conversation, but I don't recall who we talked to you first.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Honestly, to seven years old at the time he goes missing,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: everybody thinks he is at school that day, but he's not.
• 8:24
  Speaker 7: What happened that morning, Skyline Elementary School in northwest Portland,
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  Speaker 7: Oregon is having their annual science fair, so the school
• 8:32
  Speaker 7: is opened about thirty minutes earlier than normal to allow
• 8:35
  Speaker 7: for parents and students to see the different projects created
• 8:38
  Speaker 7: by the students. Arriving at Skyline just after eight am,
• 8:41
  Speaker 7: Kyrine Horman and his stepmother, Terry Horman, go to his
• 8:44
  Speaker 7: classroom to drop off his coat and backpack. Kyrone then
• 8:47
  Speaker 7: chose his stepmother his exhibit called the Red Eyed tree Frog.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: So Kyin Horman at school and at nuwell joining us
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: KATEXL News host of speaking freely with an.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: At newel and thank you for being with us, Annette.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: There's no question he was at school for this pre
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: school science fair. Now interesting. A lot of times we
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: don't have that distinction. This was all happening before first period,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: before he goes into his homeroom.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Teacher, was this science fair? Explain?
• 9:21
  Speaker 8: Yeah, that was an event in which there were a
• 9:23
  Speaker 8: lot of people who came from throughout the community, and
• 9:26
  Speaker 8: there wasn't a lot of what you would say supervision.
• 9:30
  Speaker 8: There were people coming in and out because there was
• 9:32
  Speaker 8: a science fair, and the adults who were coming in
• 9:36
  Speaker 8: weren't really being monitored very much.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, let's take a look at
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the case of missing Karen Horman, just like the FBI
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: is doing now.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Came Horman with me, Kirene's dad.
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  Speaker 2: So that was kind of a big morning for him
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: taking in the big science project. How was that morning
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: before he left for school? Was anything at all unusual?
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: No, not from my perspective. We had talked that morning
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  Speaker 5: before he went up to the school, before I went
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  Speaker 5: to work.
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  Speaker 4: We talked outside.
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  Speaker 5: He came out with me to the car before I
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: got in and left. I told him that I loved
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: him to have a wonderful day at the exposition and
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: that I would see him after work, and we talk
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: all about it. So it was just another pretty much
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: normal day.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: What more do we know about what happened at the
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: school that morning?
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Listen.
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  Speaker 9: Terry Hormon has raised Karen since he was an infant,
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  Speaker 9: and she takes a picture of Karen standing in front
• 10:41
  Speaker 9: of his project, posting the photo on Facebook. The two
• 10:44
  Speaker 9: walk around the classes looking at other students' projects and
• 10:47
  Speaker 9: see many other parents and children who have arrived early
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  Speaker 9: for the science fair. Terry Hormon volunteers her time helping
• 10:53
  Speaker 9: Karen's teacher, Christina Porter, and Porter sees Karen and Terry
• 10:56
  Speaker 9: Hormon and Kiren's classroom that morning, and another teacher sees
• 10:59
  Speaker 9: Karen Terry in another classroom before the eight forty five
• 11:02
  Speaker 9: am school bell rings.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Caine Horman explain to me your understanding of what happened
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: that morning at the science Expo and how many times
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: he was signed. I mean, I see the picture, I
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: know he was there, but now I'm hearing he was
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: in another classroom.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: What's your understanding of his movements that morning?
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So based on what I understand, again, this is
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: what I remember being told that they arrived at the school,
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: that they went to the classroom where his project was
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: on display. That's the photo that we've all seen already.
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: With him standing in front. I did see that photo
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: later that day on our camera as well. There was
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: a couple other pictures of other things in the room
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: from what I remember, So they did look at some
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: other projects in the room again from what I recall,
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: and then there was a description of them walking to
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: other classrooms and looking at other projects in those rooms.
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: I don't remember. I don't recall which teacher it was
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: that they went into. I think they went in the
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: multiple rooms from what I remember and what I was told.
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: And then then there was a discussion about them parting
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: ways up in the hall by the office, and he
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: supposedly walked down the hall back towards his classroom and
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: she left the building again according to what I was told.
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: I don't know for a fact what happened, but that
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: that's what I remember as the kind of the described
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: overview of what happened there. And again I did see
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: photos of the classroom in a few others, but that's
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: what I remember.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm understanding something. Really.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: For the first time, this expo wasn't in one big
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: room like the gymnasium or the auditorium. This was it
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: was in different classrooms, so you would walk from class
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: aassroom to classroom looking at various other projects, you know,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: sizing up yours compared to them. Did anybody have a
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: really great idea or really bad idea? You could talk
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: about it at the supper table that night. So they
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Kyra specifically and the stepmom are going from room to
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: room looking at the projects. Is that correct? Yeah?
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: From my understanding, that's correct.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, Okay.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I find that very significant because it's not a group
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: of people in one gymnasium, one gym with all the
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: projects and fifty people, one hundred people seeing Kiren. He's
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: walking from room to room.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: In and out. Everybody's milling around looking.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Parents are there from all over looking at their children's
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: science projects. It's easy to get lost in the shuffle.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: It's you know, you might as well be walking through
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Greend Central Station. There's a million kids running around. There's
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: parents that don't really know each other. Who knows what happened?
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Who can really get a good grip on the last
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: time Tyron is sane.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: It's not like he disappeared off the bus. He was there.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: He was there, guys, What more do we know about
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: that morning?
• 14:24
  Speaker 7: Listen as Terry Horman leaves the school, she sees Kyron
• 14:27
  Speaker 7: walking down a hallway toward his classroom inside Skyline Elementary.
• 14:30
  Speaker 7: Kyne has already placed his book bag and coat in
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: Miss Porter's classroom when he first arrived for the science fair.
• 14:36
  Speaker 7: Miss Porter starts her class like every day. Then the
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: children moved to reading group, than recess, than lunch. Around
• 14:43
  Speaker 7: three pm, the children, tired from a busy day, get
• 14:46
  Speaker 7: on the bus to go home.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Where is Kyne?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: You think when you take a child to school everything
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: is safe and sound. Not in this case, joining me
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: an all star panel, but straight back to Kyrin's father,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Kane Hormon joining us Cain, what did stepmom Terry tell
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: you about what happened?
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so it was we talked about the going to
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: the room at the school, doing the photos, walking around
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: the different rooms. I actually do recall after thinking about
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: it a little bit more, I think it was this
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: first grade teacher that they saw in his room. And
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: one of the interesting things about the schools there is
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: an upstairs and the downstairs with classrooms, which I guess
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: I didn't mention before. So she had talked about starting
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: in the upstairs rooms and to ring the science projects
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: in those rooms, then going downstairs and viewing the projects
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: there and then. And it's been a while, my memory
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: may not be what it used to be, but for
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: some reason I remember her talking about them separating and
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: meeting because there's different stairwells to go back up to
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: the upper level where they went back up to the
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: upper level and met near the office, and that's where
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: they parted, and she saw or talked about him walking
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: down the hallway back to his class.
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: I don't recall her.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: Saying she saw him doing that, that they met there
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: and then separated at that point in the school. It's
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: kind of a central the office is kind of a
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: central spot in the upstairs. And then she went and
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: did some of her daily things that she had on
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: her list from the school.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: So that was the last time.
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: That she had said that she had saw him was
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: in that central meeting place by the office.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: And that's the teacher to whom you're referring.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: The teacher the names escaping me at the moment, I apologize.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: That's okay.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I just want to make sure you're talking about the
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: teacher says she saw him in that central area and
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: she took off to go do all her duties right, No,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I don't recall a teacher saying that that's what I
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: was told by his stepmom is that they met up
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: there and separated there. Gotcha now, I understand. Also to
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: a mule joining us Kate x L news that at
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: least one person saw stepmother Terry leaving the building. How
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: do we know what time she left? Did she leave alone?
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Who is confirming that?
• 17:14
  Speaker 8: Actually that information came from the mother of Kiren. She
• 17:17
  Speaker 8: said that there were several witnesses who have told her
• 17:21
  Speaker 8: that they did witness him leaving in a truck with
• 17:26
  Speaker 8: a stepmother. So that's basically where that information came from.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Speaking of Kyen's mother, Desiree, listen.
• 17:34
  Speaker 10: The investigation continues to be on track and is progressing
• 17:38
  Speaker 10: toward finding Kyen. We remain confident in the actions and
• 17:43
  Speaker 10: constant commitment of law enforcement in the mission to find
• 17:46
  Speaker 10: our son.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: We love you, Kiren, never give up hope. We are
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: all coming to get you, to bring you home.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Back to Caine Horman, Cain, did Terry ever mentioned to
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: you leaving the school with Kiren?
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: No, not in any conversation that we had.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: What do you know about potential witnesses that say they
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: observed her leaving with him.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: Personally, I have no first hand account of anybody having
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: seen him in the parking lot or her or them
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: leaving together. I've heard a lot of second hand information
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: that there. There's a number of different accounts. There's accounts
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: of people seeing all three of them leaving because my
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: daughter was with her as well. There's accounts of seeing
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: him by himself in the parking lot and getting into vehicles.
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: I've heard different kinds of vehicles, not just a truck,
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: and I've heard, you know, other other accounts of people
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: witnessing her leaving the school by herself.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: I haven't heard any directly, so that's it's all second
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: had information. I apologize, but I don't have any firsthand
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: witness accounts that have been dictated to me personally in
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: that instance. But it's been a little bit of everything.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: To be honest, Nor do I in fact me reports
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: state the step mom leaves without him, that she's observed
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: leaving without him.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: How many times.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I can I ask you, Kane, did you go over
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: it and over it and over it with stepmom Terry many.
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: Many times exhaustively. There was a lot of discussion that
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: was occurring posts, the interaction with with the folks at
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: the school and then with law enforcement, and it was
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: pretty much a daily thing trying to walk through, you know,
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: who they saw, recount the steps, making sure that One
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: of my biggest concerns was, you know, did they actually
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: meet up in part ways at the office, did really
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: ever get firsthand information that confirmed their party at that location.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: So there was just a lot of conversation about trying
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: to understand exactly what happened, where it happened, how it happened,
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: and then including after as well.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: So there was a lot.
• 20:18
  Speaker 11: Kien, who was seven years old, disappeared from Skyline Elementary
• 20:22
  Speaker 11: School in northwest Portland.
• 20:24
  Speaker 12: From day one, the Molnoma County Sheriff's Office has worked
• 20:27
  Speaker 12: in close partnership with the Molnoma County District Attorney's Office,
• 20:31
  Speaker 12: the FBI, and other agencies to find Kyron.
• 20:35
  Speaker 11: As parents, we can't imagine the pain and struggle Kyen's
• 20:37
  Speaker 11: family has experienced and continues to experience without him.
• 20:42
  Speaker 12: And that's why we have never given up or slowed
• 20:44
  Speaker 12: down and trying to find Kyron.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: In the last days, the FBI is set to take
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: a fresh look at the case of a missing boy.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Kyron Horman Guys with me is Kyn's father, Kane Jarre
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Farentino joining US renowned former prosecutor, host of True crime
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Boss Jarrett.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: It seems to me that we understand the timeline very well.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Caine has filled it out for us.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: I understand everything up until the point the stepmother leaves.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: That's when things begin to get Mrquis agree or disagree?
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: I agree one percent.
• 21:29
  Speaker 13: It's not clear whether or not Kyn left the building
• 21:33
  Speaker 13: with her, although Terry, the stepmom, claims she left. I
• 21:37
  Speaker 13: run at school, heading toward his classroom and she left
• 21:41
  Speaker 13: with their little girl.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: That is the golden moment as case.
• 21:47
  Speaker 13: Really began, Nancy, and there's some discrepancy in Terry's story
• 21:51
  Speaker 13: and how things played out.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Dany Corsentino, former police chief and former sheriff, also served
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: on US Homeland Security Scene Advisory Board now PI at
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Dancorsantino dot com. Dan, right there, I'm telling you, that
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: is the critical moment, the critical moment when suddenly nobody's sure,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: what where, where did he go that way or that way?
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Was the stepmom with him not with him? That is
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: where the problem lies. Right there.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: You've seen it a million times.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: You've been a sheriff, you've been a police sheep, you've
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: been on homeland security. Right there, when the stories begin
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: to go in different directions. Everything's going along. Normally, Dad
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: leaves for work, everything's fine.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: They get to the school, they make it to the
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: science fair.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: But it suddenly when Stepmommy leaves, that's when everything hits
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: the fan.
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: Dan Corsentino, absolutely, that was the defining moment, that was
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: the beginning of the journey in the Sad Sad case.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: But it is really really.
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: Interesting about this is the comfort level that kyn had
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: and who he had the comfort level with, And there
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: was only one person on that particular morning when he
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: was at the school with Terry, that was the person
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: he had a comfort level with. Obviously teachers, students and everything.
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: But unless this was a stranger abduction, which I don't
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: think it was, that was individual that he had the
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: comfort level with. And everything changed as her story continues
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: to change.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: You know, he just mentioned something really important to be
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: in Coursentino, you said, unless this was a stranger abduction,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: let's just talk about the reality of that possibility.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Docter Sherry Schwartz joining me.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: She is a forensic psychologist and her specialty is criminal behavior.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: She's the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Psychology intersect.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank you for being with us.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: That is not a possibility that there was a stranger
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: abduction in the middle of the elementary school science fair. Okay,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: the science fair was ending, the eight forty five bail
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: was going off for everyone to go to class. What stranger,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: what who? No stranger is in that building. Everyone is
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: dispersing and leaving. The only one there where the story
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: goes sideways is with the stepmother, doctor Sherry Schwartz.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct.
• 24:38
  Speaker 14: She's the last one that was seen with Kiren, and
• 24:43
  Speaker 14: Kiren hasn't been seen since. And when people use words
• 24:48
  Speaker 14: like retaliation when we're talking about a missing child, they're
• 24:52
  Speaker 14: missing stepchild that they've known since an infant, every alarm
• 24:56
  Speaker 14: in my brain goes off, every alarm. You're right, doctor
• 25:00
  Speaker 14: Sherry Schwartz.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, let's take a listen to
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: stepmom Terry on our friend doctor Field's program.
• 25:10
  Speaker 15: This was in retaliation for something that he was doing
• 25:13
  Speaker 15: that I found out about while this is happening, and
• 25:16
  Speaker 15: this particular person was actually his friend and sent to
• 25:21
  Speaker 15: the house.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: So this was a setup.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, a setup retaliation. What is she even talking about?
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Listen to more of the stepmom speaking to our friend
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: doctor Phil.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Well, that would be because the.
• 25:39
  Speaker 15: Law enforcement told us to go to do what we
• 25:43
  Speaker 15: told us to do, things that we normally do. So
• 25:45
  Speaker 15: they want you to go grocery shopping, they want you
• 25:48
  Speaker 15: to go to the gym. They specifically told both Cana
• 25:50
  Speaker 15: and I, and he was with me that day when
• 25:52
  Speaker 15: we went.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, what she's talking about, because she'd possibly be talking
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: about the X rated photos she's sending a lover within
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: just days after Kyne disappearing.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, Caine, I don't know what you went through.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I thought I knew everything about grief when my fiance
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: was murdered. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I could
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: barely speak. I couldn't stand to hear music or TV
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: or radio or even the clock ticking. I would vomit
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and vomit. I couldn't keep anything on my stomach. The
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: last thing I could have thought about is sending X
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: rated photos of myself to some guy. I mean that's
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: just not where your head is at a time like that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: The first thing that I wanted to do was to
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: cooperate with law enforcement as much as possible. And when
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: I wasn't doing that, I was sitting in another room,
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: staring at the floor and praying. For the first couple
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: of days. I think I slept for maybe twenty minutes.
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: The night that he went missing, we had a house
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: full of law enforcement. One of the sheriff's officers that
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: I had gotten to know over that period of time
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: sat across from me in the room, and I think
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: I might have k notted off for twenty minutes. Maybe
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: everything was do everything possible, as fast as possible, whatever
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: we needed to do, And it was just being ready
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: and available to go through the process that they conduct,
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: through the investigation as much as we could. Like I said,
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: when I wasn't doing that, I was basically sitting there
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: crying for the first and that was the first few days.
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: It was.
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: The grief was overwhelming, and at the same time, like
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: we talked about in the ride up to the school,
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: in my brain was just frantically trying to figure out,
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: you know, what could we possibly be doing? Is this
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: real it's still just really hadn't sunk in all the way,
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: but it had at the same time. I don't know
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: if that makes any sense, but just mulling over everything.
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I don't remember sleeping that much for the
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: first week, if not longer, because we were in the
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: middle of the investigation. We were being investigated in all
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: the interviews and everything else that we were trying to
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: get through. I mean, I was not on social media
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: at all that I recall. I don't even recall cracking
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: a laptop. I don't remember being on my phone. I
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: just remember working with the team as much as humanly
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: possible to make progress on finding him. So the things
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: that you're describing to me completely foreign to me at
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: that time, and still.
• 28:29
  Speaker 11: It just.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: Sorry, I don't know how it's answered. It was just
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: it was a very intense period of time. I have
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: no idea how anyone would be on that mindset.
• 28:39
  Speaker 16: Terry alleges she drove along country roads to sooth daughter
• 28:43
  Speaker 16: Kiera's erich the morning of Kyron's disappearance. Terry's friend Deetie
• 28:48
  Speaker 16: allegedly rushes out of work at the same time as
• 28:51
  Speaker 16: Terry's drive after receiving a mysterious phone call her whereabouts
• 28:56
  Speaker 16: during this time are unknown Witnesses at the school report
• 29:00
  Speaker 16: unidentified man in a white pickup truck at the science fair,
• 29:04
  Speaker 16: but his identity remains a mystery.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Guys, there's so much misdirection going on right here, so
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: much misdirection. To Annette and Newell joining us Kate Exale
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: news host Annette again, thank you for being with us.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: That parking lot was likely full of parents leaving leaving
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: the science fair, but you are telling me evidence has
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: emerged of at least one witness seeing the stepmother leaving
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: with Tyrone.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 29:42
  Speaker 8: They were seen out in front of the school by
• 29:44
  Speaker 8: one of Kyron's friends, his grandma and sister, as well
• 29:47
  Speaker 8: as his bus driver. They were walking out to the
• 29:50
  Speaker 8: main road, which is where the truck was parked. That
• 29:53
  Speaker 8: witnesses saw Terry and kyn leaving the school together that
• 29:56
  Speaker 8: morning and heading toward their truck. According to Quinna all So,
• 30:00
  Speaker 8: Terry said that she drove around town that day, stopping
• 30:03
  Speaker 8: at the two grocery stores to get medicine for her daughter,
• 30:06
  Speaker 8: who wasn't feeling well. Then police found that Terry's phone
• 30:10
  Speaker 8: pained her own Highway thirty north of Portland and that
• 30:14
  Speaker 8: time period.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Now you're telling me that she in the vehicle in
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: the truck, was bought it at not one, but at
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: least two grocery stores. Could the video be highlighted enhanced
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: to say if Colin was in the car at that time.
• 30:30
  Speaker 8: That's something that they tried to do a bunch of
• 30:32
  Speaker 8: times and they couldn't conclusively tell whether he was in
• 30:35
  Speaker 8: the car.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: And that video depicting the stepmother going to at least
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: two grocery stores, was that immediately upon her leaving the school.
• 30:45
  Speaker 8: Yeah, they do think it fit the timeline of what
• 30:48
  Speaker 8: she was talking about, although there was some other time
• 30:52
  Speaker 8: that they weren't sure if they could definitely connect what
• 30:56
  Speaker 8: she was saying she did versus what she did. But
• 30:58
  Speaker 8: they did find that there was some video of her
• 31:02
  Speaker 8: from surveillance cameras in that area that did show her
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: and show her.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: In the truck.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened to Karen Horman?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Can the FBI find answers? Well, this is what we
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: know so far. The pinging of her cell phone explained
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: to me where her cell phone pained.
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: Yeah, it was an area north Portland, not far from
• 31:34
  Speaker 8: the school around Highway thirty, which runs north of Portland,
• 31:39
  Speaker 8: and that was after she'd spent time driving her daughter around.
• 31:43
  Speaker 8: She said she was driving in that area to settle
• 31:46
  Speaker 8: her daughter down. Is what she told police when they
• 31:50
  Speaker 8: asked why she was why the phone was paying around
• 31:53
  Speaker 8: in that area.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: To Kane Horman, this is Kyen's dad.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: When you asked her what had happened that morning, she
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: describe this circuitous route, driving around with the daughter in
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: the car to help her earache.
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: Yes she did. She talked about the retailers she stopped at.
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: I want to say there was a gem stop. Again,
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: I don't recall, it's been a while, but she did
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: outline that. She outlined a few of the country roads
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: that they were driving on. She wasn't overly specific about
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: which ones. There was a few she talked about, but
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: after that it was just driving around. But yeah, I
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: was familiar with that kind of.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Timetable family and investigators suspect this was no accident. Stepmom
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: Terry maintains her innocence. As the Horman family continues, they're
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: desperate search for answers.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: We know the stepmother has never been formally charged, and
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Karen Horman's disappearance. She has become the target of public suspicion.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: But there seems to be a chain of alleged misconduct
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: really since the moment goes missing. Now to you, doctor
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Sherry Schwartz, I know that everyone reacts differently to pain
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: or suffering, or loss or even stress, but this series
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: of alleged misconduct does not.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Vode well, doctor Siri, not at all.
• 33:21
  Speaker 14: And this isn't to me. This isn't anything that would
• 33:25
  Speaker 14: constitute a trauma response or a grief response. This is
• 33:30
  Speaker 14: very specific behavior. She's talking about retaliation against Kirne's dad.
• 33:37
  Speaker 14: She is saying things like the police told her things
• 33:41
  Speaker 14: like to go to the gym.
• 33:42
  Speaker 12: Now.
• 33:42
  Speaker 14: I don't know if they did or they didn't, but
• 33:44
  Speaker 14: I would find that very strange because most parents are
• 33:48
  Speaker 14: out looking. And also, Nancy, if I lost somebody's sunglasses
• 33:52
  Speaker 14: that didn't belong to me, I'd be scouring the neighborhood
• 33:56
  Speaker 14: to find out where did I leave them, let alone
• 33:59
  Speaker 14: losing someone child.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I also understand that Terry Lynn Moulton formerly Terry Horman,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: faced grand theft firearm charges stemming from an incident in Marysville, California,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: regarding a stolen gun. It's just like one thing after
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: the next and again she is not Ever, she's never
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: been named a suspect, a formal suspect in the disappearance
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: of Kiren. You know, Caine, you earlier mentioned that you
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: and the whole family were being investigated. That's SOP standard
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: operating procedure. When someone goes missing, the first place police.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Look, as they should, is at.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: The family members, particularly the male members. Statistically, that's typically
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: who did it? Tell me about being the target of
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: an investigation yourself while your son is missing?
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: What was that like?
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: The only way I can describe it is is it
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: was something that we that I needed to do. I
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: knew I didn't have any involvement.
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: I knew that really at that point it wasn't about me,
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: is really.
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: All I can say is about him, And I did
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: everything I was asked to do as fast and quickly
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: and urgently as possible to clear myself in the investigation
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: because I wanted them to be focused on who did it.
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: So it was I just I don't know. I set aside.
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: There was not really a lot of emotions from me
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: on that front, other than they indicated the process and
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: my job was to clear the process, and that's absolutely
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: what I wanted to do, and again as urgently as possible.
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: The focus was on him, finding him as quickly as possible.
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: It really didn't have to do with me as far
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: as how I felt about what was happening. It was
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: just what I needed to do as his parent to
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: help him get recovered as early as possible. So it
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: was basically my mission to do every and anything asked
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: to clear that process and continue to move forward. So
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: it was a lot less about emotion at that point.
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: I know, I described the first couple like twenty four
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: to forty eight hours just being kind of unresponsive unless
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: I was being interviewed with investigators, crying and all that stuff.
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: And as we started to get further into the process,
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: I kind of have the set that aside and become
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: more focused on what needed to be done, the task
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: that needed to be done, and not being emotional about
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: how I felt. At that particular point in time I
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: missed him. I was frantic, but at the same time
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: I needed them to focus on who actually did this.
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: So it was about clearing. It was one hundred percent
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: just about clearing everything that I needed to clear so
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: we could stay focused on him.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I don't even know words to describe what I think
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: you've been through.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: But now, what.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Is your message to anybody out there that may know
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: anything about Tyron?
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: Well, first and foremost, if you're still out there, we're
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: still looking for you. So I will always lead with that.
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: No one's given up. We are still looking. We haven't
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: given up. We love you, we miss you. We are
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: still active, the investigations active, We're still looking to everyone
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: out there. Keep recording tips. We have tips coming in
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: through the phone still to this day, lots on email.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: There's a website that I'm sure that you guys will
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: have the information for that the Sheriff's office has put
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: up now. In addition to the one that we've put
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: up for the past fourteen years, they recently put up
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: a new one that gives a rough timeline, gives the
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: tip line, It gives an email tip line. Would encourage
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: everyone to submit tips, no matter how big or small
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: you think they are. Try not to rule them out,
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: try not to filter them. Just submit them and the
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: investigators will do that work. But urge anybody who feels
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: that they witnessed anything, no matter how long ago it was,
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: to submit that information. Through the tip line, and again,
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: don't try to filter it out, don't try to vet
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: it for yourself, give it, pass it along. So I
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: would highly encourage that. The other thing is there are
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: age progress photos on the website. There's I think the
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: original and three others. He's not seven anymore, and so
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: that's one thing that we try to remind folks is
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: that he's older. He may or may not have his
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: glasses right now as well, So if he is still
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: alive and he is out there with somebody, you know,
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: we're trying to get people familiarized with those age progressed
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: with and without the glasses. So if they do see
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: a similarity that they call in that tip as well.
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: But the tip line that both the phone and the
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: email are open. They're still actively getting tips. Please continue
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: to submit them as much as you can.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: You can, of course call Enigma one eight hundred The
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Lost one eight hundred the Lost.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: There is a fifty thousand dollars reward for information leading
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: to the resolution of Kiren's disappearance.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: A fifty thousand dollars reward.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us joining us in the
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: search for Karine Horman. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,