Latest / Troubled Men Podcast / TMP307 MARK GUARINO BECOMES THE STORY

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TMP307 MARK GUARINO BECOMES THE STORY · Troubled Men Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign listeners, welcome back to the Troubled Men podcast. I am Renee Coleman, sitting once again in Snake and Jake's Christmas Club Lounge in the heart of the clampire with my co host, the original troubled man for troubled times and future mayor of New Orleans, Mr. Manny Chevrolet. Welcome, Manny.
• 0:33
  Speaker B: Hey, man. How are you? I'm a little under the weather right now.
• 0:36
  Speaker A: Oh, geez, man. Yeah, you sound all stopped up.
• 0:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm soft. I woke up. Well, my wife got sick last week and I thought I was gonna catch it, and I thought I was. I didn't. I didn't catch it. But then Easter Sunday came and my daughter came over to hang out, and I think she might have had some of it. You know, she. You know, she was. She just got off work at a pole dancing place.
• 1:01
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 1:02
  Speaker B: You know, and my mistress is also a crack, so one of them gave it to me.
• 1:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. Who knows where. Where that could come from?
• 1:09
  Speaker B: I'm a dog. But I made it. I'll be. I'll be here as long as I can.
• 1:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. If you can't, can't hang in there. We. We understand, but you're a trooper. Is that like a touch of the hantavirus, perhaps?
• 1:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. Me and Gene Hackman, we go way back, right? Right. We banged the same Asian people over and over again while we were in the Marines.
• 1:29
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 1:30
  Speaker B: Me and him were in the Marines together. I don't know if you know that. He joined just to meet women, and I joined because I left my wife.
• 1:39
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:39
  Speaker B: So anyway, it's a long story. Those rats will get you all the time.
• 1:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they're dropping like flies, Manny. All the, The, The. The. These big stars that we've had in our lives for a long time saw.
• 1:53
  Speaker B: Oh, you know, I just heard on the way here, Santana is dying.
• 1:57
  Speaker A: Huh?
• 1:57
  Speaker B: He just got rushed to the hospital in Texas and he's on his deathbed right now. Yes, Santana.
• 2:02
  Speaker A: That's terrible.
• 2:03
  Speaker B: He's supposed to play Jazz Fest this weekend or something. And fuck Texas, man. He's on his deathbed right now and they're still charging him with possession. Oh, you know, I don't understand that at all.
• 2:17
  Speaker A: Never give the guy a break, you.
• 2:18
  Speaker B: Know, He's a good guy, but he might be dead, so maybe I'll. I'll replace his gig at Jazz Fest.
• 2:24
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 2:24
  Speaker B: I'll bring out my old band. I'll get the band back together.
• 2:27
  Speaker A: As they say, two free Stooges.
• 2:29
  Speaker B: I don't know. Somebody. Somebody. I'll get the band back together. And what's his name, the guy who runs Jazz Fest. What's his.
• 2:37
  Speaker A: Quint Davis.
• 2:38
  Speaker B: Quint Davis. Yeah. He'll give me a break. He owes me, that guy. Yeah, he owes me big.
• 2:43
  Speaker A: He got him out of a jam.
• 2:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, I got many jams.
• 2:45
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 2:46
  Speaker B: And, you know, anyway, so, yeah, Santana's dying, and we're here.
• 2:50
  Speaker A: We lost Wink Martindale. I saw one of your friends, you know, had a. Had a big career in. In Memphis as a. Like, he was, like, the dance party host before he. He went national.
• 3:03
  Speaker B: Yes. And, yeah, he was like a. A local bandstand guy.
• 3:09
  Speaker A: Right, right, right, right.
• 3:10
  Speaker B: What's his name? Dick Clark.
• 3:12
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 3:12
  Speaker B: Yes, Dick Clark. You know, my dad used to work for Dick Clark.
• 3:15
  Speaker A: Really? Doing what?
• 3:16
  Speaker B: Well, he was Dick Clark's plumber. Anytime he had any kind of plumbing problems, my dad would get the call. He lived out in Malibu near the Pepperdine campus. He had a moat around his house.
• 3:28
  Speaker A: Really?
• 3:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Speaker A: He had a moat just for fun. Or did. Yeah.
• 3:32
  Speaker B: You got that much money? Why not?
• 3:33
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 3:35
  Speaker B: I don't know. My dad didn't understand, but he used to go there and get paid well.
• 3:38
  Speaker A: And you have, like, a drawbridge that he could do.
• 3:40
  Speaker B: A drawbridge? A moat, really? And the top 40 was playing constantly over speakers and stuff like that.
• 3:48
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 3:49
  Speaker B: But anyway, okay. But he was. You know, my dad enjoyed going out there. I guess it was more there than he did. Tells us. I don't know. He's dead now. Both of them. My dad and Dick Clark.
• 3:59
  Speaker A: Yeah, they took. Took those secrets to the grave with.
• 4:01
  Speaker B: Him, but apparently he had a great view of the ocean.
• 4:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker B: You know. You ever been to Pepperdine campus?
• 4:06
  Speaker A: I can't recall.
• 4:08
  Speaker B: Oh, man. If you got to go to college, you want to go there. To college?
• 4:11
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Is that. It's got to be expensive, though, huh? Location?
• 4:14
  Speaker B: I guess it is. I don't know, but you're. You got a view of the Pacific, and, you know, you get to sleep late and stuff. I don't know. I never went. I knew some girls who went there.
• 4:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 4:24
  Speaker B: You know, they died on pch. Coming home from a frat party. Because that's the problem. The frat. The frats and the sororities were on pch, and it's not a good thing to have those on pch.
• 4:36
  Speaker A: What about on pcp?
• 4:38
  Speaker B: Pcp on Peace. Driving on pch. On pcp. Never a good combination. Yeah, never a good combination. I don't know. But, yeah. So we're here. Santana's dying, and the Pope just died.
• 4:54
  Speaker A: We're not doing so great.
• 4:55
  Speaker B: You're.
• 4:55
  Speaker A: You're. You're not looking great, man.
• 4:57
  Speaker B: I don't feel.
• 4:58
  Speaker C: J.D. vance didn't happen to see Santana.
• 5:01
  Speaker A: Right?
• 5:01
  Speaker B: Right.
• 5:02
  Speaker A: Recent visit. Yeah, I saw our. Our vice president. J.D. vance was. Was like the last person to see the Pope alive practically, you know.
• 5:10
  Speaker B: Next thing you know, he's dead. Yeah.
• 5:13
  Speaker A: Slipped him a Mickey or something.
• 5:14
  Speaker B: Well, that guy. I don't know. This whole administration is going crazy. Nuts, as they say.
• 5:21
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 5:22
  Speaker B: And we'll see what happens with J.D. i mean, that. That whole cabinet's falling apart is what I. I can gather.
• 5:29
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Speaker B: What's the Secretary of Defense? Yeah, he. He's like. He's taking a drink every five minutes, you know, doing speeches and stuff like that. You know, he seems like he's got problems, you know, he should just quit while he's ahead.
• 5:45
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 5:45
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 5:45
  Speaker A: Well, they can't fall apart soon enough there.
• 5:48
  Speaker B: Well, let's hope. I. I don't know. They. They seem like idiots running the asylum, you know, what are we going to do?
• 5:56
  Speaker A: Right. Right.
• 5:57
  Speaker B: What are we going to do? We're going to just have to stick around and see. See what happens for the third act.
• 6:03
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 6:04
  Speaker C: You know, see where the show.
• 6:06
  Speaker B: We're only in the first act. A very long first act. Right, right. I mean, this first act's going to go like, you know, it's like watching your kid in the kindergarten play, you know, just like, when is this gonna end? You know, the only thing exciting up there is the teacher, you know, who's, you know, orchestrating the whole act, you know. Anyway, I digress.
• 6:28
  Speaker A: Right, right, right.
• 6:29
  Speaker B: So what's going on with you?
• 6:30
  Speaker A: Oh, just playing some gigs. You know, we had. Had a big Susan Cassill gig over the weekend where we did, like, two full albums of Joni Mitchell music. The entire Blue record, and then the entire court and sp.
• 6:45
  Speaker B: The crowd. A very large group of yammering. It sounds like it would be for.
• 6:50
  Speaker A: No, well, it was a. It was a large group that. That was totally, totally filled there. The outdoor stage. They had seating in all on the dance floor, and. And the whole thing was filled and the audience was wrapped. You could hear a pin drop in there when we were playing this music. It was, uh.
• 7:09
  Speaker B: Or were they just asleep?
• 7:11
  Speaker A: No. Well, I don't know. They had their eyes open, so it's. It's hard to tell, but, uh. But yes, they were. They were very attentive. It was a great night. Beautiful night, beautiful weather. So that was very.
• 7:22
  Speaker B: Every gig of yours is just great. You don't have a bad. Well, I never has a bad gig.
• 7:27
  Speaker A: Well, I don't talk about the bad gig.
• 7:30
  Speaker B: People are interested in that stuff. Listeners, I think, are interested in bad gigs.
• 7:34
  Speaker A: Well, if something really bad day, I tell people about that, something really remarkable happens. But, you know, you try not to take gigs that are going to be bad and you try to make.
• 7:44
  Speaker B: But bad things happen to good gigs.
• 7:46
  Speaker A: Well, sometimes they do. And I.
• 7:48
  Speaker B: Let's talk about it.
• 7:49
  Speaker C: The 10 year remove for you to talk about it.
• 7:53
  Speaker A: Right, right, right. Well, you know, you know something that I was. I might have been saying this to you, Mark, the other day or no, someone. But I used to think, well, I can tell a story on the podcast about something that happened on a band that's. That's, you know, maybe, you know, not so great as long as I. Or they possess a quality that's not so great as long as I don't say who it is. And then I realized that if I do that, everybody I work with will think maybe it's me.
• 8:20
  Speaker C: Right, right.
• 8:21
  Speaker A: So that's not a good approach either.
• 8:24
  Speaker C: But maybe you need like code names for everyone you play with.
• 8:29
  Speaker B: Come on, you're. We're all in our old. We're all old people. Just name names.
• 8:33
  Speaker A: Who cares? I will. And when. When, when something.
• 8:36
  Speaker C: The memoir for your memoir comes up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:39
  Speaker B: So that gig happened.
• 8:40
  Speaker A: That was good. Yeah.
• 8:41
  Speaker B: Women were coming in their pants.
• 8:43
  Speaker A: Well, perhaps. I don't know.
• 8:46
  Speaker B: I'm not sure it was fingering their level clitoris. I remember you, Joe.
• 8:53
  Speaker A: It was definitely some. Some resonance with the crowd material.
• 8:58
  Speaker B: All right, now, is that a good crowd for guys to get laid at? You know, Joni Mitchell double album. Well, cover band.
• 9:06
  Speaker A: You know, it's. It depends, you know, I mean, a.
• 9:10
  Speaker B: Lot of single women there who could be.
• 9:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 9:13
  Speaker B: You know, desperate.
• 9:14
  Speaker A: If you were a little bit, you know, maybe someone our age or a little bit older, it would be a fertile ground for.
• 9:21
  Speaker B: Fertile ground for unfertile women.
• 9:23
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 9:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's.
• 9:26
  Speaker A: That would be the case.
• 9:27
  Speaker B: Yeah. So there's no problem.
• 9:29
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker A: You don't have to worry about protection.
• 9:31
  Speaker B: Bang this and they'll. They'll just say thank you.
• 9:34
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 9:35
  Speaker B: You know. All right, well, anyway, it's all good.
• 9:37
  Speaker A: Something to keep.
• 9:38
  Speaker B: They want. You guys want a Grammy for this show? Yes.
• 9:41
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Already sent it, mailed it to us.
• 9:44
  Speaker B: A live Grammy.
• 9:45
  Speaker A: Well, you know, something I wanted to talk about. I saw. You know, people are crazy with riding the bicycles in New Orleans and even to be riding very carefully. I think you're taking your life in your hands. People obviously don't know how to drive for shit. In New Orleans, at least if you have a car, they're just crashing into your car as opposed to killing you. But I'm driving here in this neighborhood where we are, it's like on Pine street. So it's a narrow street, you know, on both sides. And you're up on Flaka, I'm up on Flocka. There's a girl riding on her bicycle on the left hand side of the. The street.
• 10:24
  Speaker B: Was she good looking?
• 10:25
  Speaker A: And I can see she's a younger woman. You know, it's.
• 10:28
  Speaker B: But was she hot?
• 10:30
  Speaker A: She was.
• 10:31
  Speaker B: Simple question, yes or no?
• 10:32
  Speaker A: She was fine. She was lovely. But. But she's. That's not the point of the story.
• 10:38
  Speaker B: Point of the story is that you ejaculated when you crashed into her.
• 10:42
  Speaker A: Well, no, no, no, no.
• 10:43
  Speaker B: Okay, not yet.
• 10:44
  Speaker A: Don't get ahead of me. Okay? But as I get close to her, I see that she's looking at her phone with one hand. She's riding the bicycle and she has over the ear headphones on, like we.
• 10:56
  Speaker C: Have like hand ones. I never understood how that became. It went out of the studio into the street, those headphones.
• 11:03
  Speaker A: Well, you can't hear shit, man. So you know, you can't hear a car coming up behind you. And I'm about half a block behind him going, look at this person. This is insane.
• 11:12
  Speaker B: That's when you slam on the horn. That's what I usually do.
• 11:16
  Speaker A: I bet you do.
• 11:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, just get out of my way.
• 11:19
  Speaker A: Young looking, looking at the.
• 11:22
  Speaker B: Listening to Joni Mitchell's two albums, looking.
• 11:24
  Speaker A: At the phone, reading something and not just glancing at the phone, like picking a new song, like reading an article. She's riding the bicycle.
• 11:31
  Speaker C: The way the potholes around here. Does she not understand that? You know she's going to, you know, flip over that.
• 11:36
  Speaker B: Today we have young kids, me and you. They're just, they're stupid. They just don't understand. Get a clue, man.
• 11:43
  Speaker A: So anyway, I, I pulled up to her and got right alongside of her and just started like looking at her, you know. She finally noticed me after, you know, 10 seconds and I just had to start laughing at her, you know, and she's like. Then I pulled off and I'm sure she's thinking, what an asshole, laughing at me.
• 12:01
  Speaker B: Right?
• 12:01
  Speaker C: Right. Jesus, girl, you saved her life.
• 12:04
  Speaker A: I have a death wish. I'm sure she went right back to it. Yeah, well, we had something in the news yesterday or actually. Well, I Saw it in the news today. But on Monday, we had a typical rainstorm in New Orleans. You know, kind of spring rainstorm, and all the streets immediately flooded. I could barely get to mid city and saw so many cars, like on Norman Francis Boulevard. Everything in the right hand. Everybody that was parked there, the entire right hand lane was swamped. They probably had water, you know, up inside the vehicles.
• 12:37
  Speaker B: And our fearless leader was out of town.
• 12:40
  Speaker A: She was out of town, of course, you know, but then I saw an article in the newspaper today about it, and they said, the officials from surgeon water board said, well, we had five pumps that were out of service that day and one power generator was out of service. But don't worry because we calculated that even if they'd been working, it still would have flooded. That's comforting.
• 13:05
  Speaker C: Aren't a lot of the parts wooden parts in the. That's what I. Yeah.
• 13:09
  Speaker B: A lot of the old pipes are still wooden to this day. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I heard about that.
• 13:15
  Speaker C: Medieval.
• 13:15
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Speaker B: Fifteen years ago, after Katrina. I heard about that. It's like, really.
• 13:20
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 13:20
  Speaker B: Wooden.
• 13:21
  Speaker C: And they still are. And they, and they have to go to specialty.
• 13:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 13:25
  Speaker C: You know, people to fix them because no one knows how to fix.
• 13:28
  Speaker B: But yet they still know they've installed smart meters in every front of everyone's house.
• 13:32
  Speaker C: Right?
• 13:33
  Speaker B: Smart meters.
• 13:34
  Speaker A: Right.
• 13:34
  Speaker B: Which. They installed one in front of our house, like in February. And I still haven't got a bill yet since February.
• 13:40
  Speaker A: Really?
• 13:40
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm very scared.
• 13:42
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 13:43
  Speaker B: Very, very.
• 13:44
  Speaker A: $10,000.
• 13:46
  Speaker B: Knows I had.
• 13:47
  Speaker C: Or it could be very smart. Maybe you'll never get them.
• 13:49
  Speaker B: Well, maybe. Yeah.
• 13:50
  Speaker C: Could be the smartest thing ever.
• 13:51
  Speaker B: Stupid meter. I don't know, you know, but yeah, so we'll see what happens. Last time I fought a bill with them, I mean, made the mistake of going down there and arguing the bill, and they gave me some lame excuse and I, I, I, I said, man. And it was a black woman with a black assistant and another black person. And I said, you people are all the same. Not meeting black people.
• 14:20
  Speaker A: I mean, the people that work in.
• 14:22
  Speaker B: Surgeon waterboard utility company as a whole. And I lost my case right there.
• 14:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:30
  Speaker C: It's not gonna get better after that.
• 14:33
  Speaker B: But they did validate my parking.
• 14:35
  Speaker A: Okay, well, it's not at all.
• 14:36
  Speaker B: So that's a victory for me. I'll take that. What I can.
• 14:42
  Speaker C: You know, I got charged from Entergy. I rent an apartment here, and I got charged the highest bill, highest electrical bill on a month that I wasn't even here.
• 14:52
  Speaker A: Jesus.
• 14:53
  Speaker C: And I tried and I tried to appeal it. They came out and read the meter. They said, the meter's accurate.
• 15:00
  Speaker A: How can that be? Someone's coming in your house.
• 15:02
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't fight city hall. That's one thing I learned.
• 15:06
  Speaker B: She's being taken over by a new company. Now, Energy is now. It's going to be. I forget their name, but I just got a notice from them just a month ago that Energy will now be called.
• 15:20
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 15:21
  Speaker B: Something else. I don't know what they're gonna be called. It starts with a P, I think.
• 15:24
  Speaker A: All right. For.
• 15:26
  Speaker B: I. I don't know.
• 15:27
  Speaker A: I'm sure they'll be much better.
• 15:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 15:29
  Speaker A: Who knows the new name.
• 15:31
  Speaker C: That always happens when the company spot. It always gets better.
• 15:35
  Speaker A: Well, you have anything else, Manny? Let me see real quick, because I had something interesting.
• 15:40
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Talk about it.
• 15:41
  Speaker A: Okay. So, you know, being on social media, it allows people to kind of see you who maybe have forgotten about you or something somehow. This guy through the Troublemen podcast Instagram page messaged me, and he said, hey, man, do you remember one time when you were in Nashville and you went to this club, 12th and Porter, and saw a band and you started hanging out with some people? When we went to somebody's house and you hilariously roasted their record collection, and then you went to someone else's house and crashed on their couch? That was my couch. And I was like, I do remember that night. I remember everything about that night. I was like, yeah, I remember. You were very kind to me. Thank you.
• 16:36
  Speaker C: And he was okay with that? He wasn't like, hey, you did.
• 16:38
  Speaker A: No, no, you were a slob. No, we had a fun night. It's just. I met. I'd never met these people before. Just met him at the club. We started hanging out. You know, they're like, hey, come to this party with us. Like, all right. And they're like, well, where are you going? And I'm like, well, I'm staying way out in Franklin. It's way too late for. I'm way too loaded to drive out there, you know? They're like, well, come stay at our house. I'm like, all right, now, did you.
• 17:03
  Speaker B: Use paper towels while you were there?
• 17:05
  Speaker A: I didn't. I didn't shower when I was there. I just slept on the couch and got up and left the next day.
• 17:09
  Speaker B: Now jerked off into Kleenex instead.
• 17:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think, if I can recall. But. But the next day, I took a cab, I think, to where my car was by the club. And. And I. This is. I was supposed to go pick up the rest of the band from the airport because we were going to start mixing our record up in Nashville. And I get in the car and realize that I'd left the dome light on, so the battery was dead, so I had to call another cab and have them jump me. And I was able to pick the band up. It all worked out.
• 17:39
  Speaker C: Did you remember the people? Did they.
• 17:41
  Speaker A: Did they look, you know, I wouldn't remember. I wouldn't be able to pick them out of a lineup. But the guy has since become a fan of the podcast, and I think that's how he just kind of put it together. It's like, oh, this is that guy that slept on my couch.
• 17:56
  Speaker B: What's his name?
• 17:57
  Speaker A: Andrew. Shout out to Andrew.
• 17:59
  Speaker B: Andrew. Thank you.
• 18:00
  Speaker C: That's Southern hospitality right there.
• 18:02
  Speaker A: Yeah. No, he was. He was a prince, man.
• 18:04
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 18:04
  Speaker A: All right. Well, that's. That's all I got. Well, maybe we should get to our guest.
• 18:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, sure. Let's get to our guest.
• 18:09
  Speaker A: We have a terrific guest. He's. His resume, his cv, as they call it, is overwhelming. He's an award winning writer, author, playwright, journalist with the Washington Post. His writing also has appeared in the New York Times, Guardian, Chicago Tribune, New York Magazine, MoJo, Downbeat, on and on and on. He was the Midwest bureau chief for the Christian Science Monitor for seven years. And he spent a lot of time in this area here, down here, like covering the BP oil spill and Katrina recovery. He's also the pop music critic for the Chicago Daily Herald for 11 years. And he's the author of a book that just came out last year, a terrific book called country and Midwestern Chicago and the History of Country Music and the Folk Revival. And that book was named 2024 Book of the year by a whole bunch of different places, Nashville, country music society and all. He also taught journalism at the University of Illinois at Chicago and had many plays produced. We're going to get into all that, but without further ado, the great Mr. Mark Guarino. Welcome.
• 19:22
  Speaker C: Hey, fellas. Thanks for having me. Fan of the podcast. So it's.
• 19:25
  Speaker B: Oh, good.
• 19:26
  Speaker C: It's like, I don't know, being in a film by your favorite director or.
• 19:30
  Speaker A: Something, like, you're in the film.
• 19:32
  Speaker C: I'm in the film now I've entered the frame. Hearing you guys talk, I'm like, am I. Am I listening to the podcast in my car?
• 19:40
  Speaker A: Right.
• 19:41
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 19:41
  Speaker B: Just remember to hit your mark and say you're lying. You'll be all right.
• 19:44
  Speaker C: You Guys are just everything I thought it would be.
• 19:46
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:47
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: All right.
• 19:48
  Speaker A: You know, I have those relationship with, with, like, kind of group podcasts where they're all friends, and I feel like I'm their friends. They're my friends, too. You know, they just can't hear me. But. And now you're.
• 19:58
  Speaker C: That's the mark of good radio.
• 20:00
  Speaker A: You know, it's like, yeah, Yes, I love radio. Theater of the mind. It's, it's, it's so much. But, like, everybody's into, oh, the video podcast, you know, and to me, it takes me out of it. You know, when I see him there sitting in a room, it looks goofy.
• 20:16
  Speaker C: When I was a kid, I was really into radio. I mean, I just, I didn't watch a lot of tv. I was really into radio.
• 20:21
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Speaker C: But then I would get into, like, really old radio from, like, the 30s and 40s and 50s, you know, discovered that I was like, what is this? Right. And it. For all the reasons you just said.
• 20:31
  Speaker A: Right. Well, I, I. Well, I was a huge fan of Dr. Demento. Oh, yeah, you probably were as well. You know, that was the right time period for our age group.
• 20:41
  Speaker C: I had the records, too. And. And then also, what was a fire sign theater? That was that British comedy troupe. They put all these comedy records.
• 20:51
  Speaker B: The Lemmings sketches. No, not the Lemmings.
• 20:55
  Speaker C: The Lemmings. I think that was a lemming problem.
• 20:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, No, I know who you're talking.
• 21:00
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:02
  Speaker A: Well, anyway, well, at some point in New Orleans, they started on maybe WWNO or something, one of, One of the stations. They started playing, like, you're saying, those old radio plays. Yeah. And. Yeah, they're fascinating.
• 21:16
  Speaker C: Yeah, they are. You know, and I. And it's sort of, it's interesting because I oftentimes, I think, could you do that today? And I don't know if you could, because I don't think people. I think people's attention span, they couldn't just sit there and listen to something. But yet they listen to podcasts.
• 21:30
  Speaker A: Right.
• 21:31
  Speaker C: So they do have it in them, but. So.
• 21:34
  Speaker A: Well, it's all narrow casting, so if you did that, there'd probably be an audience for it. Yeah, everybody would be listening to it. But, you know, I wouldn't get hugely popular. Who knows? People listen to all kind of weird stuff.
• 21:45
  Speaker C: Right.
• 21:46
  Speaker A: That's for sure. Well, Mark, let's go back a little bit. Give us. You're not from New Orleans.
• 21:51
  Speaker C: I'm not.
• 21:51
  Speaker A: Won't have to ask you where you went to high school.
• 21:53
  Speaker C: Here you still can, but you won't.
• 21:55
  Speaker A: Know the high school well. So tell us, you're from Chicago, is that correct?
• 21:58
  Speaker C: I did, yeah. I am. I grew up in Oak park, which is right next to Chicago.
• 22:03
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I stay in Oak park all the time when I play at Fitzgerald.
• 22:06
  Speaker C: Fitzgerald's? Yeah. That's where all the. That's where all the bands stay. Absolutely. So I. I grew up probably about a mile and a half from Fitzgerald's.
• 22:14
  Speaker A: Oh, wow.
• 22:15
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 22:15
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 22:16
  Speaker C: Yeah. And so I always say, when I was in my 20s, Fitzgerald's was kind of when my friends were going to graduate school and leaving Chicago. I had an apartment near Fitzgerald's, and Fitzgerald's was my graduate school.
• 22:31
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 22:31
  Speaker C: Because I just went there all the time and I learned about all this music I. I knew nothing about, and because it was curated so well, that club, it was just, you know, it was the only club at that time that had all this great music from Texas and Louisiana and just music rich areas. And they couldn't. They weren't playing anywhere else but Fitzgerald's, so it was like going to school. It was great. Yeah.
• 22:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, Bill, you know, he. As you said he was. Bill Fitzgerald, was so good at picking bands. He was such a music fan. You know, he was the first person to see the Iguanas during Jazz fest. Like in 1991, first year we played Jazz Fest, but we played the. Still had our Maple Leaf Sunday night gig, and Bill saw us at that and on the strength of that one gig, invited us to come play the American Music Festival over fourth of July. And, you know, that's such a great showcase of, you know, having all these Americana bands and folk bands and, you know, roots rock bands and. And put us in there in front of that audience, and suddenly we had a career in Chicago overnight.
• 23:37
  Speaker C: He designed that festival to be like the Jazz Fest, you know, like this little mini version of Jazz Fest, but, you know, with multiple stages, pretty much the similar music and food, and it's still going today, but it's. It's. Yeah, for someone. And at that time when I was going, a lot of those old time people like BoJack were still alive. And so it was just like. I mean, I couldn't. It was like entering another world stuff, you know, it was like, wow. And so that. That was like an entry point for me. I mean, I wasn't even writing about music at the time, and I just learned it was just exciting.
• 24:17
  Speaker A: Well, so going back a little bit, you. You had a family there in Oak Park. Mom, dad, siblings, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:26
  Speaker C: So big family. And they were all kind of from that area. Later I learned both my parents. Families going way back from the Chicago south side. My mom was German Irish family, and then my dad's Italian family further south. But I learned that his family actually came to the US Through New Orleans.
• 24:49
  Speaker A: Really?
• 24:50
  Speaker C: Yeah, they were part of the Sicilians that kind of came up here and lived here for a while and got on the train and went north, so.
• 24:57
  Speaker A: Interesting.
• 24:58
  Speaker C: So if I learned that out, you know, much later.
• 25:00
  Speaker A: Right, right. So. So when you're in high school, are you already starting to write? Are you like, writing for the.
• 25:06
  Speaker C: I was, yeah. I wrote for the paper very briefly, but I wrote. I had a creative writing class. You know, kind of your classic thing. Just a teacher who was really encouraging and. And you know, this guy was. He would have.
• 25:20
  Speaker B: He molested you.
• 25:21
  Speaker C: He didn't molest me. No, he didn't. That. Not that one. Not that one. Yeah, not that one. I blanked out the other one.
• 25:28
  Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. That's bad. That's best. All right.
• 25:32
  Speaker C: You know, I'm going to remember maybe when I'm like in my 70s, I might remember back. Might come back to me.
• 25:39
  Speaker B: So next year then.
• 25:42
  Speaker C: I know it's dark in here, but come on. But yeah, so I had a great teacher and I was always reading and yeah, it was a great outlet.
• 25:54
  Speaker B: Now, were you reading the classics or like. Like the beatniks?
• 25:59
  Speaker C: I was. No, I.
• 26:00
  Speaker B: You know what, I never really mean, you know, I don't know what were you.
• 26:05
  Speaker C: I never got into the beatniks. I know it's unpopular to say I never really fully. Except I was reading a lot of plays.
• 26:11
  Speaker B: Kerouac was a jerk. If. Yes.
• 26:13
  Speaker C: You know what? I never. I never. I never got all. And I know that.
• 26:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, I was supposed to like him.
• 26:20
  Speaker C: But I never had. Yeah. You know, with his whole writings.
• 26:24
  Speaker A: Berg.
• 26:24
  Speaker B: I just thought, you know, he was fluffy for me.
• 26:28
  Speaker C: Ginsburg, you know, how like Howell.
• 26:31
  Speaker B: I thought that was pretty good.
• 26:32
  Speaker C: That's good.
• 26:33
  Speaker B: Now Burroughs I like.
• 26:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:35
  Speaker C: I felt like I liked Burroughs good. But then I felt like when Ginsburg, when reading about the time when he was him glomming on to Bob Dylan.
• 26:46
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 26:47
  Speaker C: Kind of turned me off to Kinsburg.
• 26:48
  Speaker B: A little bit because he turned me off to Dylan.
• 26:52
  Speaker C: He was the generation above Bob Dylan. So here's Bob Dylan, this like young star. But like, I don't know, all those photos of Ginsburg kind of standing behind him.
• 27:01
  Speaker A: Right.
• 27:02
  Speaker C: And just like.
• 27:02
  Speaker B: Well, he was in love with him.
• 27:04
  Speaker C: Yeah. I Mean, I'm sure that, I'm sure that was going on. Yeah.
• 27:08
  Speaker B: He wanted to bang him.
• 27:09
  Speaker C: Bob used all those people. You know, it's like he, he, he, he just, he worked. He walked through all of them.
• 27:13
  Speaker A: Right.
• 27:14
  Speaker C: You know, it's kind of fascinating that he had that fortitude to, like, he's meeting all these people who are famous in his youth.
• 27:20
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:20
  Speaker C: And then he meets him and he's like.
• 27:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah. He doesn't allow himself to be manipulated.
• 27:26
  Speaker C: Right, right.
• 27:26
  Speaker A: Co opted.
• 27:27
  Speaker C: And he's not in awe of any of them either. I think that made him more appealing for those people.
• 27:33
  Speaker A: Right.
• 27:33
  Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I think Pete Seeger, he generally was. I mean, Pete Seeger, he was an. You know, in awe of him. But, but the rest of them, I, Yeah, it's interesting.
• 27:44
  Speaker B: Did you see that movie about.
• 27:45
  Speaker C: I did.
• 27:46
  Speaker B: I wasn't impressed with it at all. I thought it was an okay film. I was not.
• 27:50
  Speaker C: I was prepared not to like it, but then I thought, I, I guess I thought, like, if it's gonna turn people on to this, because a lot of my books about that period of time and I thought, and to me, I thought, yeah, you gotta read one of them. It's a good. If it's, if it's not holding up your door, you can always open it up. And. But that period of time, I think is like. I think people really haven't fully discovered or gone, Gone into that whole folk revival period of time because, you know, we hear all about the 60s, psychedelic 60s and everything beyond punk and everything. I just think that that period of time is like, really fascinating because it really was this major culture change and, and so at least the movie, I felt like, all right, kind of put people in that direction.
• 28:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I didn't. I, I just thought it was a good. Had good production value and that's about it. I, I didn't think, like the guy who played Dylan, I didn't think he was worthy of a nomination. I don't think any of them were worthy of any awards or anything, but I guess it was a light year.
• 28:57
  Speaker C: I mean, I think one of the problems when you do these movies where they're kind of. They have to embody sort of cultural icons.
• 29:04
  Speaker B: Blessing. He got blessing.
• 29:07
  Speaker C: Which is rare.
• 29:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 29:08
  Speaker C: But I think it's like the thing is that oftentimes when these movies where they're sort of. They have to be these kind of famous. Not just famous people, but kind of cultural icons.
• 29:18
  Speaker A: Right.
• 29:19
  Speaker C: You can't get away from the. You can't feel. Sometimes you're being kind of a caricature, you know, the performance. It feels like. It's like, how could you ever. How could anyone do Elvis? You know, it's in today. It'd be impossible to do. And I think the same way with, like, Johnny.
• 29:35
  Speaker B: Leonard Nimoy. Did Elvis. Did he really do that TV production back in ABC Movie of the week.
• 29:44
  Speaker C: Was it post. It must have been post Star Trek.
• 29:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, it was.
• 29:47
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 29:48
  Speaker A: That's something to look up.
• 29:50
  Speaker B: Yeah. Leonard Nimoy was Elvis. The early years.
• 29:54
  Speaker C: No.
• 29:54
  Speaker A: Crazy.
• 29:55
  Speaker B: And he never took out that earmaker.
• 29:58
  Speaker C: Did he do the death. Did. Was it Elvis going around giving the.
• 30:01
  Speaker B: Death thing on the shoulders, the hips?
• 30:03
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:06
  Speaker B: The only thing I liked about that Dylan movie is that it just made me want to smoke cigarettes so bad.
• 30:12
  Speaker C: He smoked a lot of cigarettes, and.
• 30:14
  Speaker B: Everyone smoked cigarettes in that movie. And I just wanted to smoke cigarettes so badly. And I can't anymore because I only have one lung. Yeah, I only have one lung. One.
• 30:23
  Speaker C: Candy cigarettes, maybe. Candy cigarettes.
• 30:26
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 30:27
  Speaker A: I. I thought the kid did a good job of. Of the Dylan mannerisms and stuff, you know, and the, the. The body language, the hunch and all of his. I don't know.
• 30:37
  Speaker C: But you know what? I think the best Dylan movie is that movie. I'm not there.
• 30:41
  Speaker B: That's it.
• 30:41
  Speaker C: I think that one is great because, you know, in the one in the. Who's the woman who.
• 30:46
  Speaker B: Kate Blanchett play.
• 30:47
  Speaker C: She. And the mannerisms you're talking about, I felt like. Yeah, it was like watching those. Those old black and white press conferences. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. She was. It's. It's. It's incredible. I feel like that movie. Because it's not literal, but yet it is. It's like. It's literal to the truth of what happened, but it's not. They didn't care whether.
• 31:11
  Speaker B: Now who will play Santana in the. Santana.
• 31:14
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 31:15
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 31:16
  Speaker B: I'm thinking Cheech.
• 31:16
  Speaker A: Marriage, you know, I was thinking that same thing. But he's too old. I mean.
• 31:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, he might be too old now.
• 31:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:24
  Speaker C: Benicio Del Toro.
• 31:25
  Speaker B: Benicio Del Toro. Yeah. That's a good pick.
• 31:28
  Speaker A: He's. He's no sprint.
• 31:29
  Speaker B: I mean, Velasquez.
• 31:30
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 31:31
  Speaker B: Who's an ex UCLA Bruin basketball player.
• 31:34
  Speaker C: That would be, you know, like, they would call that a breakthrough choice. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker B: He's gone pro. He's with the Miami Heat now.
• 31:42
  Speaker A: All right.
• 31:42
  Speaker B: He's a good player. He averages like eight points, four rebounds.
• 31:45
  Speaker C: He's probably making more money doing that, yeah, sure.
• 31:48
  Speaker B: But let's, let's get together and write that script.
• 31:51
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Well, someone's doing it right now, you know.
• 31:53
  Speaker B: Oh yeah, the Santana story.
• 31:55
  Speaker C: Yeah. The second that guy start fell ill, you know, somebody was like, you gotta. We gotta get this thing out.
• 32:00
  Speaker A: The book too?
• 32:01
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the clicky book.
• 32:03
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 32:04
  Speaker A: Well, well, so, so you're writing in. And you have a good creative writing teacher.
• 32:11
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 32:11
  Speaker A: You, you pursue this in college? You.
• 32:15
  Speaker C: Yeah, So I went to Loyola in Chicago.
• 32:18
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 32:18
  Speaker C: And. And day one, got in the school paper. I had a column day one, all the way through day. The last day of my senior year. Then I ended up running the newspaper and really kind of the journalism thing. It's funny, at that time Loyola didn't have a journalism curriculum whatsoever except for the school paper. So I used a kind of. I got paid to be on the paper. It was very self run. And I discovered kind of how journalism was a great way for any creative writer to kind of learn about the world. Because I was kind of on my own to run this paper and to rent with all my friends. And we were in the north side of Chicago, which was kind of in that point in time where the school was, was kind of a pretty gritty part of the city. And it was like a kid in the candy store, you know, it was like I could go write about any, anything I wanted to.
• 33:15
  Speaker B: North side, what school is that?
• 33:16
  Speaker C: Loyola.
• 33:17
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 33:17
  Speaker C: Yeah, right on the lake.
• 33:18
  Speaker B: Where's Columbia?
• 33:20
  Speaker C: So Columbia is downtown.
• 33:21
  Speaker B: Downtown.
• 33:21
  Speaker C: Downtown, yeah. Downtown by the lake.
• 33:23
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 33:23
  Speaker C: And so Loyal is right all the way right below Evanston and. Yeah, so in a neighborhood called Rogers Park.
• 33:31
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 33:31
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And kind of like Rogers park at the time. Still like that now, not as much, but it was like the last bastion of, of the old hippies were hanging out there. You know, it was really very. A lot of social justice organization, a lot of coffee shops, a lot of folk singers walking around. And it was kind of this like where the, where the rest of the city had changed a lot. Rogers park was kind of frozen.
• 33:55
  Speaker B: And what year is this again?
• 33:57
  Speaker C: This was 88. Yeah.
• 33:59
  Speaker B: When I got there, way past like the heyday of like Second City and all that.
• 34:05
  Speaker C: Well, Second City is still around. Yeah.
• 34:08
  Speaker B: You know, at that point we're seeing.
• 34:09
  Speaker C: Great people at that point, you know, it was still. Yeah, and that. And that great people at that point in the 90s as well.
• 34:14
  Speaker B: What part of town is that?
• 34:15
  Speaker C: So that's an old town, which is, you know, you jump on Lakeshore driving, you're there in 20 minutes. Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 34:21
  Speaker B: Because I went and toured campuses in Chicago with my daughter. I think it was that break between when Katrina was happening and it didn't happen.
• 34:31
  Speaker A: Covid, you mean?
• 34:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, Covid.
• 34:32
  Speaker C: Covid. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:34
  Speaker A: We got.
• 34:35
  Speaker B: We went there, we stayed. Yeah, we are, you know, horrible problems. But yeah, we were there in Chicago, staying right on the lakefront. We went and toured Columbia, and that's a fabulous place.
• 34:47
  Speaker C: Yeah. Downtown right there. It's unbelievable, man.
• 34:50
  Speaker B: Yeah. And then we went. What's the art school right near Art Institute. Yeah, the Art Institute. We were there, too. Yeah. And my daughter hooked up with a dealer, and that was it.
• 35:02
  Speaker A: Okay, so she was back in the pole.
• 35:05
  Speaker C: That was it. First back in the pole.
• 35:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, that was.
• 35:07
  Speaker C: That was it for staying in Chicago and destroying her life or. Oh, that was just it. And just in general.
• 35:12
  Speaker B: Well, that was it for studying.
• 35:14
  Speaker C: Got it, Got it. Yeah.
• 35:16
  Speaker B: But anyway, she's a good kid. From her in years.
• 35:19
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 35:20
  Speaker B: She seems all right.
• 35:21
  Speaker A: She's not asking you for money.
• 35:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, not yet.
• 35:24
  Speaker C: Not yet anyway.
• 35:25
  Speaker B: But I'll be asking you guys for money.
• 35:27
  Speaker C: She hasn't sent you any limbs or fingers?
• 35:31
  Speaker B: An ear? No, she hasn't seen no. Nothing like that. She's a good kid. In fact, she lives two blocks away.
• 35:38
  Speaker C: Oh, okay. All right, good.
• 35:40
  Speaker B: Lives right over here.
• 35:41
  Speaker C: Staying close.
• 35:41
  Speaker A: Good. She's staying out of Snake and Jake's. That's.
• 35:43
  Speaker C: That's absolutely.
• 35:44
  Speaker B: She's not legal yet.
• 35:46
  Speaker A: Oh, okay. Go ahead, Mark.
• 35:48
  Speaker C: But yeah, no, so that, you know, that. That was my training. I mean, it's kind of self.
• 35:55
  Speaker A: Right.
• 35:55
  Speaker C: You know. Yeah, no, right to training.
• 35:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the like. Like many things, I would imagine, doing it is the best teacher. Like, you do it and get better. If you have some talent, you put your attention and time towards it, you improve, and that's how anybody gets good at anything.
• 36:11
  Speaker C: I think that's true. I mean, I always feel like journalism schools, to me, are a little bit of a scam. They're very expensive, and maybe they'll get you some internships. But I mean, really, the main thing I tell. I mean, sometimes when I'm asked, just, like, read number one, learn read, and then go ahead and just do it. I mean, the great thing about journalism is really anybody can do it. But you do have to learn how to do it. And you do. Oftentimes you learn how to do it just by doing it. It's a circular thing. And also. But the main thing to have is curiosity about people. If you're not curious about people. If you're not just, then it's the absolutely wrong profession to do it. If you don't like people or just like, yeah, exactly. Stay in. Stay. Stay at home. Do not get into journalism. But if you're kind of. I mean, when I was a young reporter, I remember I covered the most boring. It was some suburb of Chicago, kind of near the Wisconsin border. And I was very early. I mean, I was right out of college, and I was covering things like taxes or just like, you know, just stuff that was happening to this community, these communities near the Wisconsin border. People were double my age. But actually, I got really into it because, like, people. Journalism allows you to. People open up their. Open up to talking to you. You know, people tell you their story, and there's no other profession, really, that gets you, you know, makes. Makes that happen. And so suddenly something that may seem boring or sort. Or people that might seem like they have nothing to say, you realize really quick, everyone has something to say. Everyone has something. And that kind of goes back to you.
• 37:53
  Speaker B: Do you want to listen to it?
• 37:55
  Speaker C: Well, do. Time goes on, you got that filter, and you realize, all right, that person's gonna be worth talking to. Maybe not.
• 38:03
  Speaker B: That person be screaming the same thing in the street corner all day long.
• 38:07
  Speaker A: That's true.
• 38:08
  Speaker C: But the thing is that I was coming up at the same time that Studs Terkel was putting out his books and he had a radio show. My father loved him, and I got to meet him once. And I think that sort of like, that romance of what he did was so embedded in Chicago as well, of just that the person who, like the common person on the street has something as worthy to say as the mayor of your city.
• 38:33
  Speaker A: Right. Well, Chicago has such a. Chicago has such a tradition of these, like, great writers, big writers, you know, guys with big personalities who. I mean, that must have been inspiring to you.
• 38:45
  Speaker C: Yeah. One time, I remember when I was in college, I wanted to. And I had a column, and Mike Raiko was writing a column at the time. And I thought. And I had great memories of my dad growing up, like, hearing him laugh because, you know, the morning he'd be reading Mike Raiko's column, I knew exactly what he was doing. And so I remember one time I was like, I'm gonna put together all these columns. I'm gonna go down to the Tribune and I'm gonna hand them to him. And just to see what happens. Well, I got into the Tribune and I got to his assistant, I handed it to him. I never heard from him. Yeah, yeah, I never heard from. But I was. With the excitement of getting it over there was, I think, enough, you know, because he was writing, you know, at that time, and so these people were. I mean, that's the thing that's going now.
• 39:31
  Speaker B: He never snuck it in for your dad to read it?
• 39:34
  Speaker C: He never what?
• 39:35
  Speaker B: Snuck in your story, Mike.
• 39:37
  Speaker C: No, no, I know, I know.
• 39:40
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 39:41
  Speaker C: The thing is that these people were all kind of. There's not. I mean. Well, the thing is that there's not a lot of columnists anymore. So that's the thing. I feel like, like the voices and just characters and that sort of thing. Writing that's starting to go. That's. That's. That's disappear. It's more or less. It's. It's. It's near the end.
• 40:01
  Speaker A: You know, we were talking the other day at the. At the Iguana show there at the Broadside, which I didn't mention, but we were talking about a couple of things. One, about just the. The overall arc of intellectual property being demonetized. And, you know, how, you know, publications were when you started, how the music business was, was when I started and when you were covering it. And, you know, it's. It's. We've all gone through a similar arc.
• 40:32
  Speaker C: You know, but, yeah, when I started, it was before the digital divide or whatever you want to call it. And then I got to see what happened afterwards. And there's some advantages to it, but you do see how, like, things were real, especially with newspapers so poorly handled when all that stuff started to happen. And I feel like they alienated their own audiences. You know, the big thing was like, well, people don't want to read anymore, you know, and so therefore, you know, we need to cut staff. So. Yeah, you. I know, I know.
• 41:05
  Speaker B: Yeah, I like to watch tv.
• 41:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Like, what's the guy. You were being there?
• 41:11
  Speaker C: Well, the newspaper I was working at at the time, they reacted to the Internet by saying, well, let's make all the photos big and let's do more celebrity news because, you know, more, More. More stories about Britney Spears and less everybod. And less. And less local and less. Because that's. She was huge at the time. Less local coverage, less. And I thought, wow, this is the work, you know, do you understand that people haven't changed? It's just this technology thing.
• 41:37
  Speaker A: Change.
• 41:38
  Speaker C: So before the technology changes, the people, you know, just don't, you know, you gotta double down on what. Why people liked you in the. What was your value? In the first place. And your value was local voices, you know, having something essential that people can't find anywhere. It wasn't just becoming more bland. And so. But you saw a lot of newspapers, they started getting rid of all their columnists, getting rid of their arts coverage, doing more wire copy, just doing things that basically made them look and sound like everything else. And so guess what? Nobody wanted that. So their readership just tanked. And so it was amazing to me that that was the early reaction to, like, well, we got to get rid of all of our personalities, and we need to get rid of of all of, like, things that are covering that are. That. That are defining our local character, and.
• 42:29
  Speaker A: That'S really where their bread and butter was in the first place. Yeah.
• 42:32
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 42:32
  Speaker A: Well, this is fascinating, Mark, but I'm looking at my drink and the clock and Manny, I think it's that time.
• 42:38
  Speaker B: Yeah. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back.
• 42:41
  Speaker D: I'm so damn tired being poor settled for less but I want more There's a summer in a pothole on my street Powers down the vinay.
• 43:14
  Speaker B: A job.
• 43:15
  Speaker D: And I can't get leave we might be drowning baby, it's not over yet? It's not over yet? You can try to get it's not over yet Gate up in a dumpster broke your heart some gotta stay someday.
• 43:51
  Speaker C: Apart.
• 43:55
  Speaker D: If you need some help with trouble mind baby, take my hand if you're so inclined Some people say this place is cursed.
• 44:14
  Speaker A: And we're back. Back with Mr. Manny Chevrolet. I am Renee Coleman, back with our guest, Mr. Mark Guarino. Now, Mark, I know you are familiar with the show, so you understand that we have the love and support of our listeners. That's our really only sustenance. And, you know, we get. We receive that through the PayPal and Venmo links that we supported. People, the show notes. And I have to say we don't have any shout outs this week, cuz once again, it's a little bit of a dry spell for the old Troublemen podcast. So that's okay.
• 44:47
  Speaker B: We're.
• 44:47
  Speaker A: We soldier on. It's, you know, and, but. But for those of you who are enjoying the show, please avail yourself of those links. Also, we have the Patreon page. And for those. Those beloved patrons who are supporting us week in and week out, you can sign up and. And join their ranks. Also, we have the link for the Trouble Bend podcast T shirts.
• 45:10
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
• 45:11
  Speaker A: Flying off the shelves.
• 45:12
  Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, are they?
• 45:14
  Speaker A: No, not really. One of them flew off the shelf.
• 45:17
  Speaker C: I got to look. I'll. I'll look. I'll look that up. Maybe I'll be your next.
• 45:20
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 45:21
  Speaker B: Well, you know, I. I just heard. I. Trophy trouble. Former Troubleman guests. I just had a conversation with them over the weekend. Brent Ryder and Amy. Abby Wool.
• 45:31
  Speaker A: Huh? Oh, really?
• 45:32
  Speaker B: Are my good friends.
• 45:33
  Speaker A: Yes, I remember those.
• 45:35
  Speaker B: They went up to Northern California to celebrate the 50th wedding anniversary of some mutual friends.
• 45:42
  Speaker A: Oh, okay. Wow. 50, man. Yeah, we got some old friends. 50th wedding anniversary for friends of ours.
• 45:49
  Speaker B: And they're both 75 years old.
• 45:51
  Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
• 45:53
  Speaker B: And it was up in no count. So Brandt. Brandt Rider, who's a good guy?
• 45:58
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 45:58
  Speaker B: He. He called me, and I was. I couldn't take the call, but I called him later, and it was a great celebration from old friends of mine from la, the Dart, Todd and Linda Darling, who were hippies who didn't want to give it up. Back in the 80s, they would still have parties and everyone would be naked.
• 46:19
  Speaker A: Wow. Really?
• 46:20
  Speaker B: It's, like, not working anymore.
• 46:24
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 46:24
  Speaker B: You know, and I asked Brand, I said, is that party you're at right now, Is everyone naked? They said. He said, no.
• 46:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good.
• 46:32
  Speaker B: But back then, it was the first time I would actually, you know, it was back. I was a high school kid, and I met my friend Brandt, and he lived in Venice, California, and he knew these people that. That were celebrating their 50th this weekend. And I went over to this house. I was 17, and everyone's naked, and I'm like a punk rock kid. And it's like this.
• 46:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, you aren't gonna get naked.
• 46:58
  Speaker C: It sounds good on paper. I mean, that's one of the things. It sounds good.
• 47:01
  Speaker B: I mean, there was like. There was like, out of a 20 people who were naked, there was like two that were like, well, I don't mind looking at that.
• 47:08
  Speaker A: Right?
• 47:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 47:09
  Speaker C: But then the naked people get upset at those people.
• 47:11
  Speaker A: People.
• 47:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know.
• 47:12
  Speaker A: Low percentage.
• 47:14
  Speaker B: It's not a good look for anyone.
• 47:15
  Speaker C: No, I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah.
• 47:17
  Speaker A: I feel like that's why they have the dark.
• 47:19
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
• 47:22
  Speaker A: Anyway, so. So yes, you can. You can buy the Troubleman podcast T shirts there. Also, follow us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, and rate, Review and subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening to it. Give us five stars. Helps us a lot. Cost you nothing. Nobody ever reviews or rates the show. I just say that every time. Just.
• 47:43
  Speaker C: Nobody even hits the star rating either.
• 47:45
  Speaker A: No, no, that doesn't happen anymore. I mean, we've had a bunch of them, but not in a long time.
• 47:50
  Speaker C: I don't know.
• 47:50
  Speaker B: People would be on that because technology is beyond us now, I think.
• 47:54
  Speaker A: Right.
• 47:54
  Speaker B: I don't think we're part of the technology. Yeah, I have no idea. Yeah, yeah, it's his gig.
• 47:59
  Speaker A: And anyway, that seems like enough of that. You know, you can find all my dates on Renee Coleman Facebook page.
• 48:07
  Speaker B: I saw one of your dates that you posted last week.
• 48:10
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 48:12
  Speaker B: That you said, you're invited, invitation only. But then you wanted me to buy a ticket. I didn't understand that.
• 48:20
  Speaker A: Well, yeah, you're invited to buy a ticket. Our guest here bought a ticket to that.
• 48:24
  Speaker B: I understand that, but that's an oxymoron. It's like you're. This is your invitation. You're invited. It. Now pay me well. Yeah, well, that's. That doesn't make sense. If you're invited to a party, then you're invited, right?
• 48:36
  Speaker A: It's. It's. I understand the. The nomenclature that you're. That, you know.
• 48:41
  Speaker B: Nomenclature? What the does that mean? Nomenclature?
• 48:44
  Speaker A: What the. I think that's the second time that word's come up on the podcast.
• 48:48
  Speaker C: I like that.
• 48:48
  Speaker B: But you said invitation only. You're invited now you pay me. Well, it doesn't make sense.
• 48:54
  Speaker C: You. You're invited to come see the band play to a private audience.
• 49:01
  Speaker B: No, but it said invitation only. You're invited now buy a ticket. Doesn't make sense.
• 49:07
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 49:07
  Speaker B: Doesn't make sense at all to me.
• 49:09
  Speaker A: To take that into it.
• 49:10
  Speaker B: I didn't. I don't know who you did. Who dealt that with for your band. You know that was a loose gravel band, right? Yeah, the loose gravel.
• 49:17
  Speaker A: Loose Cattle.
• 49:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, Loose Cattle. I don't know who's doing your advertising for that band, but that's horrible.
• 49:23
  Speaker A: You know, Manny, I go along to get along. I. I can't. I can't be running everything. I'm. You try to at least my hands full with this. Go ahead, Mark.
• 49:33
  Speaker B: No, that was horrible. Go ahead, Mark.
• 49:35
  Speaker C: No, no, no, I was. I'm.
• 49:37
  Speaker B: Your name is Mark, right? Yeah.
• 49:38
  Speaker C: I'm just happy.
• 49:40
  Speaker A: We're all happy to be here. Happy to be somewhere.
• 49:43
  Speaker B: I got you.
• 49:43
  Speaker C: I got a drink. I know you got my book.
• 49:45
  Speaker A: And here, let us present. Present you with the Trouble podcast stickers. I know you've gotten some before, but this is. This is, you know, the. The part of the show where we give you even more.
• 49:55
  Speaker C: I love it. Thank you.
• 49:56
  Speaker A: So let's get back to our Guest great. Mark Guarino. Now Mark, we first became acquainted when you, when you contacted me to interview me last year for. For the Lynn Drury cover story.
• 50:09
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think. Did I talk to you? I did something on Loose Cattle too.
• 50:13
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 50:14
  Speaker C: Maybe before then I may have talked to you about that, but maybe not. Yeah. So I've been writing about music since the mid-90s, but of writing about New Orleans music probably is just as long again, kind of.
• 50:29
  Speaker A: So you're in hard journalism, but then you're hanging out at Fitzgerald's all the time, you're learning about all this music.
• 50:35
  Speaker C: It's a weird. So I was a music critic back then for about 11 years. And so at that point in Chicago, it was a pretty exciting time to be in Chicago. So many great bands, this kind of height of this all country era. But not only that, it was all this like these commercial rock bands. There were all these, I mean Chicago, I felt was the center of the universe during this period of time in the 90s, there was so much going on, nothing's matched that since to that level of you can go out seven nights a week, you could see these incredible bills. But at the time you didn't know. You don't know it was anything special other than it was exciting. But really it was a great time to be writing about music and really immersed in music during that time. And I was again kind of like a kid in the candy store again because I got a full time job being a music critic, which is a job that no longer really exists anymore. And I hung onto that job for about 11 years. And then once that was over, it, you know, I realized that full time writing about music was just not there. That was on its way out. Right.
• 51:44
  Speaker B: This is not interesting.
• 51:46
  Speaker C: Well, I mean, whether you thought it was interesting or not, they're just critics. There was just, you know, art critics, architecture critics, any sort of fine art critics. They. That was on the way out. That was not going to be a sustainable job. And to be a critic you need to have. I mean I was a reporter before then, so I had chops in that realm. And so one thing I did learn about, while a lot of my friends were running to get media jobs in New York or to go to both coasts, I realized that by staying put, I could get a lot of work working for national media outlets in Chicago because none of these national media outlets had anybody in Chicago. Because if I went to New York, I would have been one of a million people my age scrambled for work, staying Put in Chicago, I was not. And so that's kind of been my full time gig starting in about 202008 or so. And really it was the start of Obama as well because there was so much renewed interest in Chicago because of the president. We never had a president from president like him at all, you know, and the president from a big city. And so that there was that kind of re.
• 52:59
  Speaker B: He smoked a lot of crack in.
• 53:00
  Speaker C: Chicago, you know what. So I did not. My sources didn't uncover that. I didn't cover that. But I'm sure there's something like. I'm sure that came out of Breitbart.
• 53:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think.
• 53:11
  Speaker C: I think the Breitbart cover kind of covered that story.
• 53:14
  Speaker B: He's a good guy, Alex Jo.
• 53:16
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 53:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, he seems like a good guy.
• 53:19
  Speaker C: He was a good guy. He was a man of the people.
• 53:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you know, back to something you were talking about is the. The fertile scene in the 90s, like the band like Liz Fair. You were there for Liz Fair. That whole Wicker park scene, Rainbow and, and. And Bradwood. All the. The great.
• 53:35
  Speaker C: Yeah. Great bands like Fig Dish, these Fan. Like Local H. Smashing Pumpkins.
• 53:43
  Speaker A: Huge. I was a huge fan of that band as well.
• 53:45
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 53:45
  Speaker A: But man. Yeah, just one after another.
• 53:47
  Speaker C: It was, it was. There were. It was like every garage had a band in it right now. And. And also were great. The funny thing is that there was this lineage to Cheap Trick too. Cheap Trick was the elder statesman of all these bands because they all kind of were in the realm of like, you know, this kind of heavy guitars, but really poppy hooks.
• 54:08
  Speaker A: Right, right.
• 54:09
  Speaker C: And. And so Cheap Trick was around and it felt like they were the kind of the elder statesman of all those bands that were coming out of Chicago at the time. But at the same time there was also like. There was that scene and then there was this kind of like country scene as well. That's what I write about in my book.
• 54:24
  Speaker A: Right. Of great book coming up that you brought us here. Country and Midwestern Chicago in the history of country music and the folk revival.
• 54:33
  Speaker C: That's it. Yeah. And so you had these labels like Bloodshot Records, kind of documenting these scenes. And these are. This was an under. So this was kind of the underground. So you had the kind of the commercial scene of all these bands that were being signed to major labels left and right. And there were so many of those bands. The Smoking Popes. That's another great one.
• 54:51
  Speaker A: Right. Well, you had John Lankford. Had John Lankford there then.
• 54:54
  Speaker C: Yeah. John Lankford moved from the Meat concert.
• 54:57
  Speaker A: Former guest of the show.
• 54:58
  Speaker C: Oh, really? So, yeah, so the scene kind of gravitated around John and a few other kind of key figures. And you had a bunch of labels like Bloodshot, you had a lot of clubs, you had bands. Jeff Tweedy moved to town and had formed Wilco. And so that scene really kind of amazingly took off. It was like everything was in the right place in its right time. And it's interesting that like about 10 years later you saw the major labels kind of, kind of co opting that scene in many ways, which I think is inevitably happens. But. So you had labels like Yep, Rock and Lost highway and near and New west that were just kind of like kind of capture this sort of singer, songwriter, Americana.
• 55:44
  Speaker B: Were you there for Smashing Punk?
• 55:46
  Speaker C: I was, yeah. Yeah, I went to. At Loyola, when I was at Loyola, James Iha, the. The guitar player, he was at Loyola when I was there. I remember him. He would be playing gigs, but he would walk. He was an art. He was an art major.
• 55:57
  Speaker B: And he always dined and ditched. I remember that about.
• 56:00
  Speaker C: That's right.
• 56:01
  Speaker B: He would always dine in. He did, he did.
• 56:04
  Speaker C: He couldn't eat anywhere.
• 56:05
  Speaker B: Cuz when they got signed to Virgin Records and I used to work for Virgin Records, okay. I went down to Atlanta to interview the band.
• 56:11
  Speaker A: Yes, that's on YouTube. You can see. Whole day he spent with.
• 56:17
  Speaker C: With the Pumpkins.
• 56:17
  Speaker A: With the Pumpkins.
• 56:18
  Speaker B: And they hated my guts.
• 56:20
  Speaker A: They were.
• 56:20
  Speaker B: They were not happy with.
• 56:22
  Speaker A: It was a bad sit. They were in the middle of making a record and the record company sent Manny to go. To go interview him to get the.
• 56:30
  Speaker B: Album made, you know. And Butch Vig. God bless. I like Butch, man. Yeah, that's a great name. Butch Fig.
• 56:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, great drummer too, man.
• 56:40
  Speaker C: Yeah. Who's the Letterman drummer? Was that Butch Fig?
• 56:44
  Speaker A: Yes. No, Anton.
• 56:45
  Speaker C: Oh, Anton Fig. Sorry. Okay, okay.
• 56:48
  Speaker B: Anyway, I went down to Atlanta after being here in New Orleans interviewing Iggy Pop, okay. For his Black Metal album.
• 56:56
  Speaker C: Album, which one was that? Was it called Black Metal?
• 56:58
  Speaker A: It was called Skull Ring.
• 57:00
  Speaker C: Skull Ring, I remember that one.
• 57:02
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 57:03
  Speaker A: Produced by Malcolm Byrne. That recorded at Lanwa's studio.
• 57:07
  Speaker B: Lando. Don't get me started on that guy. That guy's a giant.
• 57:10
  Speaker A: One of your favorites.
• 57:11
  Speaker B: Yeah. Anyway.
• 57:13
  Speaker A: Oh, he's a good guy.
• 57:14
  Speaker B: Anyway, we'll never have him on the show, so I don't care.
• 57:17
  Speaker A: I don't know, maybe. We'll see.
• 57:19
  Speaker C: He was just in Chicago actually, a couple weeks ago.
• 57:21
  Speaker A: Really maybe coming back to town, being.
• 57:23
  Speaker B: Arrested for possession, like Santana.
• 57:27
  Speaker A: Well, so, Mark, talking about this folk scene, subject of your book, you deal with the whole deep history, 100 years of folk music. And I guess it kind of, you know, at one time, even before Nashville, they had like the most popular national country radio show starting back in the 20s or something. Yeah, I mean, people coming up from the south migrate part of the northern.
• 57:50
  Speaker C: It did. I mean, it was sort of the second. It was the other great migration where it was all these Appalachians from the upper south moving up for work. And it was also in the 20s, like, the new technology was radio. And so you. All these radio stations started. So WLS started in 1924, and the first month it was on the air, it started the Barn Dance, which became like a radio formula, like a variety show of all these string band players playing music. And that kind of was so popular, the show became. The first couple shows were so popular, they made it a permanent part of its schedule. And that predated the Grand Ole Opry. In fact, the original announcer for the WLS barn dance moved because he was getting all these accolades. He got lured away from WSM in Nashville to start the Grand Larry using the exact same format. But even, like, even. Even. But really, it was. It was really. Because Chicago, at that point in time, for about 20 years, until about, like the late 40s, it was kind of. It had the recording studios, it had all the major labels, it had the artists. And that's kind of was. Because it was the major center of the country and Nashville was still pretty much a small town. It really wasn't until the 50s that that's, you know, everything we think of as Nashville country music establishment. That's when that all started get going and. And it kind of started to die out in Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of the early country music stars were also on the Barn Dance as well. Gene Autry, Bill Monroe. And it's amazing, through the research, learning, like Bill Monroe recording Blue Moon of Kentucky, he recorded that on Michigan Avenue in Chicago. Flattened Scruggs recorded downtown Chicago. Chicago, wow. The Carter Family recorded in downtown Chicago because the major labels were there, right? Mercury Records and deca.
• 59:46
  Speaker B: Now you're talking about Jimmy Carter.
• 59:48
  Speaker C: No, Jimmy Carter came later. Okay, so Jimmy Carter. But maybe Billy could have been early. Billy could have been earlier.
• 59:55
  Speaker A: Maybell Carter.
• 59:56
  Speaker C: Maybelle Carter. Yeah.
• 59:57
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 59:58
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:58
  Speaker B: Because I know Jimmy Carter still alive, isn't he?
• 1:00:01
  Speaker C: No, no. J.D. vance visited him about a year ago, and then y. Yeah, he brought. Yeah. So I'm sorry. Yeah, He.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker B: He seems Like a good guy.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker C: J.D. vance.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker B: Carter.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker C: Oh, Carter.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker B: I don't know who J.D. vance is. J.D. vance, our vice president.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker C: Right, right, he is. And also this specter of death.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker A: Right, right, yeah. Grim reaper for the Pope. Now, I know, you know, you still have like. Like one time the Iguanas play at the. The Old Town School.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker C: Yeah, the Old Town School of folk music. So, yeah, that, that place is, you know, had a really profound effect on the national folk scene when it opened in 1957, because there hadn't been a. Again, another. A school or a place for not just people to learn. You know, at that time, it was odd to learn guitar. You know, now everyone's got a guitar in their home. But at that point, you know, middle class people just wanting to learn guitar music was, was unusual. It was totally new. 1957.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker C: Yeah, in the 50s. Yeah. And so the Old Town School started. But the thing is, what it's. It's really what it did was it gave musicians a place to teach, a lot to learn to teach. It created a scene. And so it was sort of this, like other cities didn't have that. And so when folk music died out in the 60s because of rock and roll, like Greenwich Village, you know, was gone. You know, that whole scene died out by the 70s. It continued like a second folk boom because of the Old Town School was there because it provided jobs for musicians. It was a place to hang.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker A: Center of gravity.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker C: It was a center of gravity, exactly. And so out of that scene came the second scene scene, which, which produced all these singer songwriters, most notably John Prine, Steve Goodman, a bunch of other wonderful songwriters. Merv Griffin. No, well, he. Maybe his son, but yeah, Merv. Merv. Merv beamed down, I think a couple nights, but yeah, so it was, it was. That's. That's what made it kind of a really interesting, you know, really kind of profound influence on Chicago and the greater scene.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker A: Very cool, man. Yeah, well, so, you know, you're still. Even though you, you do have your foot so deep in the music, you still do like straight reporting all the time. You still work for abc.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker C: Yeah, so I'm at ABC now and the music has kind of gone. It's become more of a, you know, like, for me. Yeah, exactly, that's right.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker A: The music, it has like calling. We were talking about this the other day.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker C: It's vocation, you know, I mean, I.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker A: Think even just like the priesthood.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker C: That's exactly it. I mean, I feel like. I mean, it kind of goes back to being curious about people that Like, I mean it's a really great. I feel like I don't know what, what else I would do. But yeah, so for abc, that's kind of my full time gig. But I also write books and plays. And plays. Yeah, exactly. Chicago has a, has a really, you know, that kind of even goes back further because Chicago, when I came up, the Chicago had this incredible storefront theater scene and still does. And, and so that really was this great outlet for just as a kid writing and I, and I've. And I want. In the 90s, I got into it and I kind of fell into a great group of people who were doing the same thing I did. And it's like, yeah, it's, it's. I was telling a friend of mine the other day, I saw her play, she, she had a premiere play she wrote. And I was walking across, I saw the play, it was great. It was like this 40 seat theater and, and, and the play, it's the production and the acting that could be on Broadway. It was such this high level, but it was in a theater that probably again like maybe a 40 seat theater. I remember walking back to my car thinking, this is what Chicago does really, really well. You know, it's just like, it's just kind of doing this very high level art for not profit motivated art, you know. And I think that to me, even though it seems naive, you know, I think it's, there's something, there's still great value in that because. And it's the same thing with music, you know, people in bands, you know, I think that I just find that really inspiring because it's not just like, hey, this is a jokey thing we're doing on the side of our or money gigs. It's like, no, this is, we are serious about this and we're gonna supersede the so called pros, you know.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, we're not trying to get rich, we're trying to save our souls.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's it. That's it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker A: That's what is at issue here.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker C: The eternal itch that must be scratched. And I feel like that to me is, I mean again, I keep going back to vocation, you know, it's. And I, you know, it's so inspiring to kind of be around people, you know, writers, directors, you know, production people who are just really doing it because they want to have that pure artistic experience, you know. And it seems like the world's gone so cynical that you wouldn't think that that's been kind of squeezed out, but luckily it hasn't.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker A: So, yes, it's more necessary than ever to soldier on as by way of example, but just to. To. To keep from. You know, from doing some self harm.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker C: Driving into a brick wall.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker A: Right, exactly.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker C: But I think part of it is like the community. It's like when I. When I was at your gig the other day, it's like you're seeing all these people there, and a lot of people knew each other, maybe a lot of people didn't, but it's like, I think that's the new community. I mean, sense of community. I mean, before, people lived in small towns or small villages, and that would be kind of like your community. And I feel like, like, like the. The music and. And theater and in the art world at the local level. I feel like that is sort of like the. I think that's kind of emerged to be sort of its purpose is community.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, but his audience is very, very old.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, they're old.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker B: Community.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker A: You know, they're just community care.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker C: You know what? That is actually not necessarily true because when I went up and I got a T shirt from him, the person before me was a very young girl also buying a T shirt and was telling you that she. I don't know how she discovered the band or something like that, but.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker B: Well, he's sleeping with her, probably.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker A: Definitely not. Yeah, there's no sleeping going on.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker C: Right. Yeah.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker B: You're playing, that's what he says.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker C: For the Jasmine program this year. And so I went through all the bios, and you're in about at least 10 of these bands that are playing Jazz Fest. You know, it's amazing. You're busy. You're.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker A: You're busy leading a blessed life. God has always shown his face on me.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker C: You're the busiest man in town.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker A: Oh, no, there's plenty of. Plenty of guys working more than me. But, you know, I'm. I'm happy to be participating. I'm. I'm so blessed to have all these individuals and they're all great, man. There's nobody I play with that I think. Oh, that's a. That's a bummer gig. They're all so fun.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker C: Yeah. Why would. Yeah, why would you do it? Yeah, that's for sure.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker A: Yeah. I'm very, very fortunate. Well, so you still do, like, hard news, and Chicago has a lot of, like, we have our mayor troubles here, you know, Manny. The people have refused to put Manny into office, in spite of the obvious. Obvious.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker C: You know, there's still time.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker A: There's still Time. Yeah, but the. Chicago's had its run of interesting mayors. I think the guy that's in there now, what I see on, on certain YouTube videos where the, the city council or the aldermen, whatever they call the.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker C: They're rebelling, freaking out.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker A: The, the. The populace is freaking out.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's. He's kind of a Cantrell type figure.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker A: And fuck you, I'm gonna do what I want.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker C: That's right. And it's sort of like, like when I came up under the second Daily, who was mayor for about 21 years, I believe, and, and it was a rubber stamp city council and, and it was just kind of, you know, he was a daily. You didn't cross him. And he had so much control over everything. That started some, that started on. Then we had Rahm Emanuel after him. And Rahm Emanuel kind of was in the sort of shadow of Obama, Obama's White House. And then, and then he can kind of of the. Things started to crack from there and you started to see. And then we had Lori Lightfoot, who was a mayor. She was a reform minded candidate.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker B: She was a Native American.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker C: I don't think she was. Yeah, I don't. I don't think so.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker A: She hadn't. She looked like she might have been from outer space.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, she was very. She was, she was as unusual of a Chicago mayor. I mean, she broke the template. You know, she was something. Yeah, she was. She. She was not. She was a gay black woman mayor, which Chicago has never had before. So she broke through that and then. And so it's like, the point is that like the whole city council control started to erode under Rahm Emanuel because, you know, he wasn't a daily. And that's kind of where you think. Where you have things now. And this guy, you know, he's probably not gonna be a second term mayor and he's deeply unpopular.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it seems like it.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker B: So I don't, you know, I know a little bit of. About Chicago.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker B: So where are the Italians on the north side?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker C: All right, so no, the. Okay, so there's. It's several different places.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker C: Okay, so the Italians are on the northwest side.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker C: Some of them aren't in Chicago. So in areas like Melrose Park, Norwood park, like kind of these kind of shots, kind of the collar. Collar community.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker B: Where are the Irish?
• 1:09:53
  Speaker C: And the Irish are South. They're south side Irish in a neighborhood called.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker B: So they're Cubs fans.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker C: They're Cubs fans. Yeah, it's Funny, because. Oh, no, go on.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker B: No, no, go ahead.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker C: No, because Wrigley. Wrigleyville is. Is kind of. You know, it's one of those neighborhoods that used to. It's just. It's a very transient and community now. You know, it's not like people don't really live there or. It's really a. It's a lot of apartments and it's a lot of. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not an old. It's very wealthy. It's not an old school neighborhood anymore. Boys Town's right next to that. And then. But this. The. It's become a lot more wealthy than when I went to school. It was. It's a really amazing, very expensive city.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker B: So the Irish are in the south, the Italians are north.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker B: But there's Mexicans working everywhere, right?
• 1:10:53
  Speaker C: Southwest side. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker B: And all that kind of stuff.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, There's a huge Mexican music.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker A: In Chicago.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker C: Oh, huge. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker B: Working every. They're busing every table. They're washing every dish.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah. It's. You know, you can get every. One thing that's still good about Chicago is that you have every ethnicity, every. If you can. You can go eat around the world if you wanted to.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker C: You know, that's every type of restaurant there, and that's still pretty amazing if. If you.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker B: But then some people here in New Orleans. You can puke in every part of the world.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker C: Exactly. Right, right. Or puke every different color of the world.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker B: That's what I enjoy about this.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker A: This place, man. I. I heard this story about this. This guy was a cono musician, you know, Mexican musician in Chicago. And he said there's a whole scene there where a band sets up their equipment. They At. At a club, like, on a Friday or Saturday night, they play a set, then they go outside. A van picks you up, brings you to another club. You play on another band's equipment. Then after you play a set there, you do that five times, and at the end of the night, they bring you back to your equipment. You play five clubs in a night.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker B: On that show Law and Order, somebody.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker C: Needs to, like, make a reality series of that or something. That's amazing.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker A: And. And the guy was. Who's telling us the story, he was just saying, like, I can't remember who it was, but somebody, you know, telling the iguanas. Mexican guy, and he was saying, like, somebody complained about it and they pulled out a hammer and broke his hand.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I'm Going to stop this right now. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker A: So, yeah, they run a tight ship.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker C: That's on Sopranos right there.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Crazy, man.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker C: Oh, I have a funny. You were talking about your mayor. She first when she was elected, and I covered some of that race. Her name was really familiar to me. Then I realized why. Because a few years earlier, I did a story for the Washington Post on Irvin Mayfield. Oh, the New Orleans trumpeter who went to federal prison because he stole a bunch of money for the library foundation. Yes.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker A: And still hasn't paid it back.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker C: Yes. And so he was. I mean, it's an unbelievable scandal, and it's like. It's galling and all of that, that he used this library foundation. He stole money from, essentially, kids, and then he made a gold trumpet. It was really cool. So I did this story and I interviewed all these people who were angry about how they gave money to his foundation. And all of a sudden I said, well, I need to find somebody who. There's gotta be somebody who supports him. And so I looked around, made some phone calls, talked to some people, and I did interview somebody who supported him at the time. And her name was Latoya Cantrell. And she's in my story talking about how, you know, he's a good guy, son of New Orleans, people are trying to bring him down and everything like that. And so when she was elected mayor. That's funny. I was like, I know that name. And I did a search on my computer. I'm like, it's her. She's the one person I found who defended Irvin Mayfield.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker A: Right, right. Well, she still is.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker C: I know he's been trying to play gigs and.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. No, he's.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker C: But, boy, people. I mean, I always feel like I get aggravated when I see him because, you know, I just think that it's just. It's. There's nothing worse to me than, like, especially post Katrina, all that kind of goodwill about, like, we're going to rebuild New Orleans and. And try to support the arts and everything. This guy was taking all that money and, you know, he was trying. He was. He was booking himself at. He rented out Carnegie hall and pretended that he filled up. Naturally, he got booked at Carnegie Hall. You know, know, limos and goldplated trumpets and all that other stuff.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker A: Stayed at the Ritz or the Forces.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker C: Oh, he was living large. And. And.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker A: And anyway, enough. Enough time spent on moving on. Well, we're kind of. He's a good guy.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker B: Well, he's.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker A: We're kind of on the downslope. Of the podcast here, Mark. And, you know, you and I could talk forever, obviously, but I got to.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker B: Go to sleep, man.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker A: He's got to go to sleep. I have two jazz fest appearances tomorrow and then a nighttime gig, so I gotta go get some rest.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker A: Well, thank you so much, Mark. This is.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker C: Thanks for having me. Yeah.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker A: As always, on the Troubled men podcast, we like to say trouble never ends.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker B: But it continues the struggle. Good night.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker A: Good night.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker E: Gonna get myself some coffee maybe buy me something sweet away there to the pushers say hey there to the beach Gonna trip the light fantastic Gonna relish life in peace Gonna hook the moon up like a balloon? I'm gonna walk down royal street gonna hang up to the lamppost don't the dead fish smell so sweet? I'll pretend I like you Yankees here as I walk down royal street. You don't have to call me colonel but please let em be discreet?
• 1:16:25
  Speaker A: I got the wormwood.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker E: As I walk down royal street and the patois and I can smell a frenchman's feet and arm in arm with my creole girl I'll walk down royal street Gonna trip the light fantastic Gonna relish life in peace Gonna f the moon I plaque like a balloon I'm gonna walk down royal street Gonna hang on to the lamppost don't the dead fish smell so sweet? I'll pretend I like you Yankees here as I walk down royal street. You don't have call me curtain but madam be discreet I got the worm work in my skirt as I walk down royal street.