Latest / Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk / Oscar Mike Radio _ 447 _ Thomas LaGrave _ Special Welfare _ Social Warfare

Transcript

Oscar Mike Radio _ 447 _ Thomas LaGrave _ Special Welfare _ Social Warfare · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

0:53
come here and we're going to conquer and we're going to take
0:56
some. Is that understood, Sir?
0:58
That's what we're going to do, sweetheart.
0:59
We are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready
1:04
line. Autism Acceptance Month is a
1:13
good time to recognize the talents, contributions and
1:15
diversity within the autism community.
1:18
Sign up and read informative articles for free about autism
1:21
and other disabilities at www.epmagazine.com.
1:29
Monotony. It comes in all shapes and
1:31
sizes. Dull, tedious, just plain
1:36
boring. But what is this?
1:39
A contender perhaps, Something UN boring by the looks of it.
1:44
Jabs right at dull and uppercut to tedium.
1:47
Something that keeps you on your toes, keeps your head on a
1:49
swivel. A knockout punch to your old
1:53
boring workouts. Welcome to fight Camp.
2:07
OM Radio is a proud podcast partner of Wreaths Across
2:11
America Radio, heard every Thursday at 11 AM and Sunday at
2:15
8:00 AM Eastern. They're also big supporters of
2:18
the nonprofit I Got Your 62 Lives at Once.
2:22
And with every wreath you sponsor through OM Radio, $5
2:27
goes back to this great organization dedicated to making
2:31
a difference in the lives of veterans, law enforcement,
2:34
firefighters and 1st responders battling PTS.
2:37
It's the Two Lives at Once pairs these brave men and women
2:41
together with dogs rescued from kill shelters.
2:44
In this way, 2 lives are saved at the same time by saving each
2:49
other. Donate now.
2:50
Go to wreathsacrossamerica.org slash OM radio to help.
2:57
That's wreathsacrossamerica.org slash OM radio.
3:56
I remember a time when I was in A and, you know, a not so good
3:59
place and these games and these activities and being able to to
4:03
come and, and have the camaraderie that we have here.
4:06
It, it, it makes me feel like, you know, I'm not, I'm not
4:10
alone. There are people here that have
4:12
been through what I, I've been through.
4:14
It makes me feel like, I don't know, like, like I'm, I'm part
4:18
of something great. How's it going going?
5:11
Well, it's that new guy Energy. Oh, he's back.
5:25
That's the fourth time he's done that.
5:28
It's a peak in a probe peaking with serious intent to probe.
5:32
A2, you might have guys starting to move in our position.
5:35
Yeah. P we're getting a build up of
5:36
activity here too. Yeah, I definitely see weapons
5:38
at this. Point Yeah, we have definite
5:39
massing. Redman's Hero 8 is.
6:00
Profane. We're seeing activity converging
6:02
up here, North and South. This is frogman 6R.
6:06
We need a deep back at our last known position.
6:08
We have severely wounded. Who's the severely wounded?
6:11
It's. Me.
6:12
Who is that? God be one, we're in contact.
6:16
Two, you coming to you or you coming to us?
6:18
Damn right. Here's the plan.
6:28
EA 5 minutes over, scouts are going to lead us out and I'm
6:31
bringing up the rear. Pop smoke, smoke out.
6:35
We are all coming back. OP one they are in route to you
6:40
3. Minutes.
6:42
I saw me and only me. Did anyone look to you,
6:44
Claymore? Rock me, dude. 2 minutes out.
6:47
Two minutes. Where are you guys?
6:49
Look for the blood and the smoke.
6:50
Multiple bad guys trying to get to opposition.
6:52
Inbound. Inbound.
6:57
One minute out. We have enemy on our building
7:00
and all surrounding buildings. Roger that.
7:02
Standby going hot. Gotta get ready, man.
7:06
It's gonna hurt on my town one. 2. 3.
7:24
Hello and welcome again to OM Radio.
7:26
My name is Travis, Marine Corps veteran and your host OM Radio's
7:31
Co produced with Since the One Productions.
7:33
What's your podcast doing? I want to thank my sponsor,
7:36
Joyce Asac of ASAC Real Estate and my supporters Case on
7:40
Shaving Company, Exceptional Parent Magazine and Fight Camp
7:45
got a great show for you lined up with an amazing guest.
7:49
I'm looking forward to learning from and and sharing with you.
7:54
Navy, Navy SEAL, Navy Corpsman, 2 things I love and respect very
7:58
much. And so with any further delay,
8:01
Thomas Lagrave, welcome to OM Radio.
8:03
How are you doing? I'm doing excellent and I'm
8:06
looking forward to this too. So let's make it happen.
8:09
Absolutely. So served in the Navy, check.
8:13
My grandfathers were were naval veterans from World War 2,
8:18
Marine Corps corpsman, hospital corpsman, yay, check.
8:21
And then as a bonus, you just like challenges.
8:25
Obviously you became a Navy SEAL.
8:27
So let's start with that. What got you into the Navy and
8:30
being a Navy corpsman, Tom? Well, what got me into the Navy
8:34
was it was the year 1979 and I was at that time living with my
8:42
parents and was my father was old school and I was smoking
8:46
marijuana and he threw me out of his house.
8:49
So instead of going back and trying to figure that out, I'm
8:52
18 years old, time to head out on my own.
8:55
And at the, the only thing that really was there to keep me safe
9:00
and sane was I went down to the recruiter because in 1979,
9:06
Vietnam, it just ended and nobody wanted to go in the
9:08
military. So I was able to say that I, I'm
9:12
interested in medicine and I want to go into the military.
9:16
I thought Navy because I could see the world and that's how it
9:19
happened. So you, you do that, you go
9:22
through recruit train, you, you become a hospital corpsman.
9:27
Did they still? No.
9:29
I don't know if this corpsman was lying to me, Tom, but he
9:32
said they had this thing where they would they would injure an
9:35
animal and and you had to keep it alive.
9:38
Yeah, Goat Lab. Yes.
9:40
Is that a real thing? Oh, yeah.
9:43
Oh, yeah. That's actually, you know, when
9:46
you become a, a, a, a high end corpsman, whether it's with the
9:50
Marine Corps or any other special forces, that's the
9:54
school in North Carolina that is prepping you to be a, a, a field
9:59
medic extraordinaire without dealing with human beings.
10:04
They utilized goats. And yeah, it was called Goats
10:08
Goat Lab. No kidding.
10:10
So they weren't lying to me. OK, So I ask every Navy corpsman
10:15
this question because think of this, you know, I'm a little
10:18
private in just got out of boot camp.
10:20
I'm in Marine Corps combat train in Camp Pellington, California.
10:23
And we're sitting there, It's a Friday night.
10:26
We're like, oh, we're glad. And this this Navy corpsman
10:29
comes out to us and says, Marines, why aren't you
10:32
drinking? We're like, what do you mean?
10:34
He's like, look, for your entire life, this is the formula.
10:40
Clean socks have 1000 milligrams of Motrin on hand at all times.
10:45
And I want you all drinking at a minimum, a minimum a gallon of
10:50
water a day. So yeah, a day, you know,
10:57
minimum. Yeah, I was thinking that it was
11:00
going to be a gallon of beer, but OK.
11:03
That's what he said. He said if you if you do all
11:06
those things, gallon of water a day, motion on hand, clean
11:10
socks, you will live a good life.
11:12
I mean, I, I have some of that, not all of that.
11:16
But is there any truth to that, Tom, that you know?
11:19
That's not my world. You know what, the clean socks I
11:22
can deal with. And the Motrin is an absolute.
11:25
But the water is, you know, at my age today, years down the
11:30
road, yeah, I know. It's, I understand its meaning.
11:34
But back when I was a youngster, that was the last thing that was
11:37
on my mind. Well, I don't drink, but it's
11:39
certainly the last thing on my mind.
11:41
It can't be on a Friday night. I was trying to see if the
11:44
little, you know, girls down there Oceanside were really as
11:47
cute as they said they were. So, but that's what that's what
11:49
he has hung his hat on. And it's because he didn't like
11:51
seeing, how do you put it? The happiest woman alive is one
11:56
with nothing to do. So that's, that was his
11:59
reasoning for it. So you do that.
12:02
What was your time being a corpsman like?
12:05
Because we didn't have a lot going on back in the in the 80s
12:09
until like Grenada and stuff. So what was that like being a
12:12
corpsman? Actually, you know, it's, it's
12:16
your secondary NEC being the corpsman, your primary is being
12:21
a Navy SEAL. So I'm an operator who happened
12:24
to be the medic. And so during my time frame, we
12:28
were in Beirut. That was definitely an issue in
12:34
that time frame. And then when you're talking
12:39
about any of the special forces, any in the branches, what you do
12:43
to on a daily basis, you're forever prepping and you're
12:48
doing, you know, things that if you make a mistake can cost you
12:52
a limb or a life. So I was always being utilized
12:58
as the medic for, you know, diving issues, various wounds
13:05
that come about from just being an operator during the period of
13:10
time where you're doing, you know, mock ups, getting prepared
13:14
for a deployment. No, no, Maybe I misunderstood.
13:17
I thought you became a corpsman first and then a SEAL.
13:19
You did it all at the same time. No, I I went from boot camp to a
13:24
school which was that what San Diego Balboa parked and then I
13:30
went across the bridge and was at the amphib base for BUDS.
13:34
So your your first in that time frame you had to have a job and
13:41
mine was Corman. There were Bosun's mates
13:45
operation specialist. Today the rate is actually being
13:50
a SEAL. So you're a seal and then they
13:53
will send you to medical school if that's your voice and you
13:57
wish to become the medic. So it's changed a little in that
14:02
way. So I understand you, you do this
14:05
and you talk about it in your in your story and I'll have the
14:07
link to your website in your book on the Ask Mike radio show
14:12
post. But you mentioned that during
14:14
your military service that addiction started becoming a, a
14:18
real problem for you. And you don't really shy away
14:20
from that. What was happening around that
14:23
time where addiction took hold? Because for some people I've
14:27
talked to, it's it's injury, it's family breakdown issues,
14:32
divorce, any number of things. So then you were serving in a
14:37
high speed MOS and and I understand that Seals and and
14:42
ring Raiders and Green Berets are immune to it either, but
14:46
what happened to you to lead you down that road, Tom?
14:50
So the time frame is what's essential. 1979 I enter into the
14:56
military under the Carter administration.
14:59
Within the year, it's the Reagan administration and in that time
15:03
frame, the force wall was an aircraft carrier that had an
15:07
accident a a plane took out the flight deck and every there was,
15:12
you know, a dozen deaths and when they did the autopsies, it
15:17
was found that everybody had THC in their system.
15:21
And so President Reagan, Ronald Reagan said 0 tolerance.
15:26
So I had been in the military and in 798081 the, the morale
15:33
was just poor because of Vietnam.
15:36
So there was a lackadaisical looking at drinking and not hard
15:42
drugs, but marijuana was a, a, a mainstay.
15:45
And when it became 0 tolerance at at that very beginning, I was
15:50
the corpsman that you called to get the bottles ready.
15:52
So I knew when the, the urine tests were coming and could
15:57
prepare for it. So as it lapsed on, I missed the
16:01
cue of seeing that 0 tolerance means 0 tolerance.
16:06
We're not going to tolerate it. And I did not, I wasn't, I
16:12
wasn't mature enough. I wasn't old enough to recognize
16:16
that I needed to change that. And I got caught up in, you
16:21
know, I I was three days late for a Bender and, you know, in
16:26
the military. That's UA.
16:28
Yeah. And so instead of calling me to
16:29
get the bottles ready, someone else got the bottle.
16:32
And I was sitting in the master arm shack.
16:34
And that, that's the end of the story there.
16:38
Yeah, I remember Master Sergeant coincidentally telling me that
16:43
back in the 80s and and 70s, there were guys growing
16:47
marijuana plants in their barracks and no one, no one
16:50
really looked too hard on that. It was a very different military
16:53
back then, yes. And then when I joined in the
16:56
90s, you had guys the day they knew they popped before they
17:03
went to boot camp, they let them go to boot camp because they
17:05
paid for it. Let them get thrashed, let them
17:07
get bald and broke and send them home.
17:09
And then after leave for us, you, you, you were guaranteed,
17:14
guaranteed to go pee in the cup when you got back off leave.
17:17
Just an automatic thing. So very, very different.
17:20
Was that time when you had to start facing your addiction?
17:24
Was it at that time and and when you start facing that, what was
17:29
that like for you? I didn't face my addiction until
17:32
I got discharged for drug use 'cause it's team One and that
17:37
was the end of my career where I was, you know, nothing in the
17:42
military happens fast. Hurry up and wait.
17:44
Well, my discharge came in less than, I think it was 10 days,
17:49
and I found myself out with absolutely no preparation and I
17:55
was a mess. So that's when I came to terms
18:00
with addiction. It was when it actually cost me
18:04
my career, a thing that I loved and that was going to be mine no
18:09
more ever again. And I just, that was
18:12
overwhelming to me. How do you do it then?
18:14
Because the reason I ask is some people that I've known in my
18:19
close circles dealt with the very same situation you did.
18:23
And you watch them realize that, OK, life as they know it is
18:27
changed. It's ended.
18:28
There's either legal issues or they've lost their career or
18:32
lost their family. And some just keep going down
18:36
that road. But some say, you know what?
18:38
OK, I realize I got a problem. I got to fix it and they start
18:43
fixing it. But I've never, I, I'm not
18:45
experiencing that myself, But it's different.
18:48
Some people that you wouldn't expect say, you know what,
18:51
enough, enough. I'm going to fix myself and some
18:53
people never do that. What caused you to say, you know
18:56
what? I I want to change Tom's life.
18:59
I want to change my life right now.
19:02
There were two pieces. I ended up going home back to my
19:06
father's house where I had been thrown out almost 10 years
19:11
earlier for the same thing. And my father said, look, you
19:15
can stay here if you want to now address this issue that has
19:20
again ruined your life. That was one element.
19:23
The second element was I got a brother that's eight years
19:26
younger than I am, that was like 20 years old and never been to a
19:31
bar, never been to, you know, he's never drank legally.
19:37
And he was in the program at the age of 20.
19:41
And so I'm looking at him, this is 8 years my junior.
19:45
And he did the tough love thing. He he gave me his hug.
19:49
And then you know what? He disappeared and told me if,
19:52
if you're going to use, you can't come around me.
19:54
And that first of all, pissed me off.
19:57
Second, it hurt me. Third, it intrigued me.
20:02
And I ended up. Taking my father's suggestion
20:06
and four months after discharge I was in a 90 day recovery
20:10
facility and that was life changing.
20:16
Yeah, it seemed like it was because looking at what you've
20:19
accomplished since then, you've gone on this pathway of
20:23
coaching, mentorship, recovery assistance and then authorship.
20:29
And it's it's not just a little bit of a change.
20:32
It's like a complete 180 and a new, new man.
20:35
I mean, you go through your recovery process and you start
20:40
this life anew. What got you on this track of
20:44
saying, you know what, people are coming to me for help.
20:48
People need coaching, people need advice.
20:49
And maybe I'm the right guy to give it.
20:52
At that stage, there was none of that.
20:54
I was a year into it and I was coming to understand that for
20:59
the first time in my life, I, I, I knew a fear that I had never
21:03
experienced before. And the fear was that I I had an
21:08
addiction that I couldn't control and I did not know how
21:11
to live life without the drugs. And so it came to a circumstance
21:18
where I was either going to use or do an unconventional kind of
21:23
move. And I went because of those of
21:28
us in our addiction come to find that it's first you need to be
21:33
able to embrace your emotions and what you are today is based
21:39
in your childhood. For better or worse, something
21:43
happened there that made you see as you saw it when it comes to
21:47
drugs. And you need to change that.
21:49
And as 1A military, anybody goes boot camp is being, you know,
21:55
desensitized because you got to pull the trigger.
21:57
And then as an operator, I, I am further being more and then
22:01
using drugs. I didn't know how to get in
22:04
touch with emotions and I couldn't see my past.
22:08
So my thought was I'm going to go and work where I can see what
22:14
I was in the moment. And ended up taking a job as an
22:17
overnight counselor at an adolescent recovery facility
22:21
with youngsters from 13 to 17. And that's how I figured it out.
22:29
So it's based on emotions and how you feel, because in your
22:32
sense you had blocked or buried all those.
22:36
Yep, Yep. And when it comes to understand
22:40
you can't get sober unless you're unless you come to terms
22:43
with your emotions. And I am now, you know, I'm
22:48
decades A clinical therapist coming to understand that I am
22:52
forever explaining, especially to the male, that to embrace
23:00
your emotions and to come to terms with them does not make
23:03
you weak, it makes you strong. And that's a hard sell.
23:07
But the. Oh, yeah, yeah.
23:09
Well, yeah, even today it's like, you know, you, you don't
23:12
really tell people how you really feel about stuff as a
23:14
guy. Yes, and that is where I am
23:18
different from that standpoint. And I I stayed working with
23:23
youths for years and years because you know the, the, what
23:31
they gave me was purpose and meaning.
23:33
They gave to me my life back as I saw it, and I wanted to
23:36
dedicate myself back to them per not per SE, not the individuals,
23:42
but that generation, those those youths that are going from
23:45
adolescent to adulthood. And I've spent decades working
23:49
there and having the kind of success being able to explain
23:54
with the youngsters that are not yet having those those ironclad
24:00
walls that we put up. I'm able to get in there before
24:04
that occurs and to make sense to them.
24:07
And have not always, but for a good portion of the time,
24:10
success getting them to see life in a way that is powerful when
24:16
you can come to terms with your emotion.
24:18
Welcome me here because I'm trying to learn so much of my
24:21
Marine Corps career in adulthood is about zeroing out or blinking
24:28
your emotions. You might be upset, but you
24:31
can't let the person see it. You might be in severe physical
24:34
pain, but you can't show it at all.
24:36
And you certainly don't want to be vulnerable with a female
24:40
because it's going to be used against you.
24:42
Is is the is the is a thought. So how do you balance being, you
24:49
know, a man and then understand that your emotions are OK?
24:54
You know what? As a clinical therapist, I do
24:57
not touch politics or religion. No, OK, you.
25:00
Can't touch them, Sure. Spirituality is a different
25:02
animal, right? Their perspective, Spirituality.
25:06
I believe that if there's a male in my face and he wants to do
25:10
harm to me, that I can deescalate it.
25:12
Not because I'm weak, but because I'm stronger than he is.
25:16
If I can bring him down now, what was the purpose of doing
25:20
that? In my world?
25:22
I have found that what I am internally is what I draw to me
25:27
externally. And I'm not going to sell this
25:30
to anybody because I live a life that is powerful by being
25:36
compassionate with an insane country right now that is
25:40
looking to be LED down a path. And I'm saying it's OK.
25:46
And people are like F you and get away.
25:49
And I'm like, but I I'm not being affected as so many others
25:54
because not only have I way of understanding what's happening,
25:58
I got a cadre of youth that I started working when they were
26:01
12 in the 1980s that are 40 now and are my best friends.
26:06
I have a circle of life that I have put together based off of
26:11
not what I'm going to sell you, but what I've come to believe.
26:14
And I think it's more powerful by the way I walk my walk than
26:19
what I say when I talk. Makes sense?
26:23
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because that's the thing.
26:26
There's a lot of, you know, split people out there that will
26:28
tell you all the stuff, but when you peel back the layers,
26:31
they're not really walking their talk.
26:34
So what's real and what's not? And I let you decide that that's
26:38
the part where I'm not going to change who I am and I'm not
26:41
going to appease you. This is what I am.
26:44
I put it out. You've read it, you saw it, and
26:46
it's apparently made you curious enough to have a conversation
26:50
with me. Well, I thought it was
26:52
authentic. I'm like, I mean, it wasn't like
26:56
a well, I was this and have pity on me or, you know, I'm holier
27:01
than you or I did this. So now, hey, you know, buy my
27:04
book, buy my book. It's like, hey, you know, I'm
27:07
Tom as Navy SEAL. I did this stuff.
27:10
Addiction wrecked my life. I turn my life around.
27:13
I I've, I've gotten into, you know, counseling.
27:17
I'm a, I'm a clinical, you know, therapist now, which is very
27:20
interesting. And I'm like, well, there's,
27:22
there's somebody who owns what they are.
27:25
Yeah. And, and when and who's
27:27
authentic? So when, when I see that I'm
27:29
like, OK, I'm, I'm definitely curious if you want to learn
27:31
more, you start helping these kids out.
27:37
What made you decide to really be a professional clinical
27:40
therapist in in that regard and go through all that schooling
27:44
and and understand how the human mind and emotions work?
27:49
Yeah, it, it was by being authentic with youngsters.
27:53
They shared with me the secrets that adults hide from me as a
27:58
therapist and that they would share these deep secrets with
28:02
me. I'm not a clinician at this
28:04
time. I'm nothing.
28:05
I'm a I'm a knucklehead trying to figure out who can never be a
28:09
SEAL again, how to live life in the civilian world.
28:13
And these youngsters are responding to me.
28:16
And I'm at some point going, there must be something here
28:21
because why are they doing this to me?
28:23
And then it got to the point where they would they were,
28:27
there was certain circumstances that I had no knowledge.
28:30
I didn't, you know, they're telling me things that are like
28:33
what? And I found that unacceptable
28:37
that they would trust you with that kind of information and you
28:42
couldn't help them. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
28:44
That's when I did the I need to get educated and I didn't get
28:50
educated for for me, I got educated for them because of how
28:56
they made me feel. And that was that I, I meant
29:00
something to them. And now I'm going to be as a
29:05
Navy SEAL. You know, I'm the best.
29:09
There's, you know, I'm expected to say that.
29:13
And in your, whether you're Marine, Army, Navy, whatever, we
29:19
all need to be saying we're the best because we count on each
29:21
other with our lives. And it's from that mentality
29:25
that I'm saying I've got to be the best because I don't want a
29:28
question from a youth that I can't answer or know where I can
29:32
find that answer. I, I like the the comment about
29:36
kids will tell you secrets that adults won't.
29:39
So I, I, I, I got, I want to just backtrack a little bit.
29:42
What secrets do adults keep from you?
29:44
And, and, and why? If you're going to therapy now,
29:47
Marine Corps here, break it down Marine Corps style.
29:50
You know, Tom, if you're going to therapy, why would I keep a
29:54
secret from you? Nobody has ever come to me
29:59
telling me the truth. They came because they were so
30:02
hurting, but they they came with a lie because they they
30:06
couldn't. Every human being, every human
30:10
being keep secrets. There's a secret that you hold
30:14
that you won't tell your wife, you won't tell your kids, you're
30:18
never going. And that secret can be the thing
30:21
that's killing you. And my role is to get to that
30:25
place and get that secret and show you that it's not what you
30:29
think it is. And so that from that
30:32
perspective, the to be, to be effective like I am is to be
30:41
able to find what's really going on with the individual that
30:45
comes to me. I asked the questions.
30:47
I've been doing this a long time.
30:49
I know how to, you know, I'm a master manipulator.
30:54
Bottom line is you're coming to me because you can't come to
30:57
terms with whatever and whatever you came to me is not the
31:00
problem. Because if that was a problem,
31:03
you can figure it out. Why?
31:05
Why do you even come to me if that's what it is Here, just do
31:07
this. It's not that simple.
31:10
We are complex and we are by our nature being human beings.
31:16
We're fear based. Yeah.
31:18
We have the ability to be noble, but at the root, we live in
31:26
fear. And those secrets that are in
31:30
that domain, those are the ones that if you're coming to me, I'm
31:34
going after, That's what I do. So what's it like when you get
31:39
somebody who, if I understand you correctly, by default are
31:43
lying to you right from get go? So I have to think you have to
31:47
get their trust first. They.
31:49
Have. To feel safe and you've got to
31:52
manipulate them to, you know, see you as a safe thing to be
31:57
fine. And I get that.
31:58
That's fine, but what's it like when they start laying the
32:02
perimeter down and and you get to see what they're keeping from
32:06
themselves and everybody else? That's when I unleash my fury
32:12
because I wrap you around a wall that is going to protect you
32:16
because I'm all right with my maleness, that I will make sure
32:21
in that room at that time, nothing, nothing is going to
32:24
hurt you. Nothing's coming that can do any
32:27
harm to you. And when you finally give it to
32:30
me, I know how to make it so that you can live with it.
32:34
When you walk out that door from me and if you need me, the next
32:39
20 minutes, thirty minutes, you come back, you call.
32:43
Because when you get to that place and I get to that, I have
32:46
to be very careful. Those are the times where you're
32:49
most vulnerable and I can lose you.
32:51
But I also know that no, I'm I don't.
32:55
I'm a cornet man. I'm not.
32:56
I ain't leaving nobody behind and I ain't losing nobody.
33:00
And this is coming from years of doing this.
33:03
I couldn't have this conversation with you 30 years
33:06
ago. Yeah.
33:08
This is 40 years of being what I am today.
33:14
It just sounds earth shattering different, odd because, you
33:19
know, I've been to a therapist. I've had to, you know, take my,
33:22
you know, I've, I've been around therapist and generally it's,
33:26
hey, we, I have you from 4:00 to 4:50, OK, 449.
33:32
You know, we're not talking about anything else.
33:33
We're, we're getting the next schedule done and you're out.
33:36
If you call me, I might pick up today.
33:38
I might pick up tomorrow. But if you need me, that's
33:41
billable time. And then, you know, I'll see you
33:43
next week or in two weeks. This is different.
33:47
Your approach seems very different from what I've
33:50
experienced myself. Yeah.
33:52
And and that's because of our upbringing, our military thing.
33:55
It doesn't matter whether you're a Navy SEAL or a, a Marine Recon
33:59
or just a Navy sailor or a Marine.
34:03
We are, we are conditioned to care.
34:10
I don't have to like you. That's let's get this straight.
34:13
I don't like you, but I have to work with you.
34:16
And if I'm working with you, that comes with everything that
34:19
I am. I'm not giving because I don't
34:21
like you half my essence. Again, it goes back to I am not
34:26
being what you want me to be by the way you're treating me.
34:31
You know, I, I've done this, I, I've come to understand the
34:35
human dynamic and we by our very nature are, are not looking to
34:43
do harm. Our fear puts us into
34:46
circumstances. And yes, let me let me make this
34:50
perfectly clear. There is about 3% of the human
34:55
population that is born a sociopath.
34:58
I am not talking about that. That is a demon animal.
35:01
That is a completely different thing.
35:03
That is not what I'm talking about.
35:06
I can't fix that. I I've worked in the prisons and
35:10
I've worked in jails and I've met them, I see them, I know
35:13
them and I don't want nothing to do with them.
35:17
So that leaves me 97% of the population.
35:20
So for this 97% and and you have like 40 years of, of doing this
35:25
body of work, yes, 30-40 years. So you, you do this body work
35:29
for this time. And we're, we're talking about
35:32
you as the whole time. But you wrote this book called
35:35
Special special welfare Social warfare.
35:38
I'm looking at it to make sure we get it wrong.
35:40
And, and the premise of that book was very interesting
35:42
because you talk about these dynamics in this book.
35:45
What led you to write the book and and how was it received when
35:48
you wrote it? It's not received the way I
35:51
wanted it. I wrote it because I needed a a
35:54
vehicle to get in front of the National population of America.
36:00
I'm writing this because our kids are hurting badly.
36:03
And I told their story, but I also told my story.
36:06
I told my parents story and I told my grandparents story.
36:10
And I'm sharing with you what's missing with our youth today and
36:14
what's going on has you know, it it it we look at it and it's not
36:20
by accident that we're sitting here.
36:22
And I want the ability to sit on Good Morning America and say
36:27
hello, my name's Tom. I'm coming here to share with
36:29
you a story. It's in that book.
36:31
But let's be understanding what I'm here for.
36:34
I'm here to advocate for America's youth.
36:37
That's what I'm doing here. And it's a pleasure to meet you.
36:40
And that's the starting point for me.
36:42
That's. Why I wrote the book.
36:44
I wanted that opportunity and I haven't gotten it yet.
36:50
So you're we're here now. What is wrong in your view?
36:54
And you have a large body work to draw from.
36:57
What's wrong with our youth now? Let's dismiss the.
37:02
The key element is this thing. OK.
37:06
OK, because this is that's going back 20 years.
37:10
I've been working that goes back till, you know, the the late
37:13
80s, early 90s and the upbringing of youth is altering
37:19
through the years. I grew up with that children
37:22
should be seen and not. Heard yes.
37:26
And today, today that's not how children are are are brought up
37:31
and we had a rite of passage that military that that took us
37:38
from our family, especially IE your mother, you need we
37:43
especially men need to detach from their mother to become the
37:46
male that then can be there for a woman that becomes his wife.
37:52
So that dynamic has been buried in coddling, not expecting, not
38:01
holding accountable. And because of it, today's youth
38:06
really are in over their heads. They don't know how to be adult
38:13
males. And what is it about the adult
38:18
population? That's their parents,
38:19
grandparents goes back to where's the money?
38:23
Follow the money. I, I, I we're not going to have
38:25
that conversation here, but it's in the book.
38:28
I said this is where it is. We know this is an absolute
38:31
fact. Why don't we do something about
38:34
that? Because this is where our money
38:36
is screwing up that we don't no longer have resources to send us
38:40
to recovery facilities, to mental health facilities, to
38:43
medical facilities. The money got usurped.
38:49
So those are the 222, you know, dynamics that are in the book
38:54
that I'm addressing. It's hard being a parent in this
38:57
day and age. It really is.
38:58
But it, it definitely stands to support what you're saying.
39:05
Kids are raised differently. I'm, I mean, I told my sons how
39:09
things were done back in the day and what I had to do and they
39:11
couldn't believe me. I'm like, it's, it's a, it's a
39:13
different world now. So let me flip this coin a
39:16
little bit. Sure.
39:18
Can we? Do we have to get the kids or
39:21
can parents do things right now to make their kids childhood
39:28
experience more robust, more resilient, or better?
39:33
Here's The thing is change is the hardest thing a human being
39:36
will ever do. Yeah, we we abort change.
39:40
We would rather hold on to the horror because it's a horror we
39:46
understand, rather than go to change to something that might
39:50
be worse. You're already living in a
39:53
tragedy and you're worried about something else being worse.
39:56
Well, OK, So in that way, to bring about change for parents,
40:04
that's got to be a that's got to be a question you ask yourself.
40:08
From where I stand, I I, I gravitated to that rite of
40:13
passage. Honorbound Academy is the
40:16
nonprofit that I had that is written into the book because
40:21
for the last 10 years I attempted to be funded and could
40:25
not get the money. There were almost got, nearly
40:30
got, but nobody wanted to give me.
40:32
What I was asking for was 6 million in two years 'cause then
40:37
I could give you a program with all of the, you know, problems,
40:42
all the kinks worked out. Yeah.
40:45
And with that, you know, if you want to go to my website,
40:49
thehonorboundacademy.org, everything's in there.
40:52
All my, all my, all the various platforms, all of my, my books,
40:58
all my blogs there. You'll get understanding here
41:01
with me. It's just like in that moment, I
41:06
want to say to America's youth, I'm here for you.
41:10
From them, I'm going to listen as I always have to what they
41:14
want. But to the adult population, I'm
41:17
going to say this is what we've got to do.
41:20
And if you don't, that's OK, you can go elsewhere.
41:23
And for those of you want, this is time tested and we can do it
41:28
this way. What, what do I mean?
41:30
You may have already said this, but what do America's children
41:34
want? It, it seemed like a simple
41:36
question, but I've been really considered it that way before
41:39
because I was a parent and I'm like, you're going to do what I
41:41
want you to do what I tell you to do.
41:43
I didn't really consider what my children wanted.
41:45
I'm, I'm just going to be honest with you.
41:46
So in your view and what you've done, what the kids want?
41:52
It's the dream they want the dream they want to dream the big
41:56
dreams. But we need to be able to
42:00
preface that to, I would shift it and say what are they afraid
42:05
of? The key element right now is
42:09
global warming. The adult population refuses to
42:13
look at it. Our kids, and you know this,
42:16
they don't hear what we say. They watch what we do.
42:21
Our. Kids learn from what we do, not
42:23
what my father, you know, do as I say, not as I do.
42:27
Yeah, right. That didn't work.
42:29
So this here now is what are the youth, the larger portion of
42:35
them are, are very fearful of what they're seeing of a planet
42:40
that we're going to give them. And so that is more what I'm
42:45
focused on saying. If that if I'm right and you're
42:49
going to tell me I am right, then let's start brainstorming
42:53
how to figure because remember, I'm a clinician, but I'm a
42:57
social worker that I got the MSW.
42:59
That means I, I advocate, you know, I advocate at the highest
43:05
level. Again, I've been doing this for
43:08
many years and I'm at retirement age.
43:11
I'm not ready to give up, but I'm done working.
43:15
I want now to be there for our youth.
43:19
And when it's time to get paid, I'm like, you guys already paid
43:23
me. You came in my life back 40
43:25
years ago. Now it's my turn.
43:27
So get rid of the get rid of the financial.
43:30
Let's figure out how. And my, all my skills, all my
43:35
tools, all my talents are at your disposal.
43:39
And you tell me how you want me to respond to the adult
43:43
population. Because if I do it my way, I
43:46
lose them. If I do it their way, I got
43:48
them. So you have this book out.
43:54
What was an initial reaction from people who read it as they,
43:58
you know, understood you and your story and what you just
44:00
told me with what you're trying to do?
44:03
It's the second book, so they laughed again from this one
44:06
because it's it's again I. I am being forward with who and
44:10
what I am. I've got nothing to hide it it,
44:14
it's in recovery. You're only as sick as your
44:17
secrets. I, it took me a lot of, lot of
44:20
time to come to terms. As a matter of fact, I had 32
44:24
years of sobriety and I relapsed.
44:27
That was five years ago. And that was because I had a
44:30
hidden thing that I didn't, I minimized.
44:35
But I knew from all those years of doing this with others, and I
44:40
was afraid to look at my own self.
44:42
And then my world crashed. And so to put it back, there's
44:47
only one way for my kind to put it back.
44:49
Get real, get honest and share. And so I circled myself with the
44:54
professionals and the friends, and I came to terms and I let it
44:57
go. And today, the last five years
44:59
have been the best five years of my life.
45:02
I haven't gone through what you've gone through, but one
45:05
thing that I learned about myself is if I'm not careful, I
45:12
can get very comfortable in my pain.
45:16
You know, I, I, I know what it is physically, emotionally,
45:19
whatever. And it, it's like letting that
45:24
go is almost as hurtful as holding on to it because I know
45:28
what it is. I can quantify it.
45:30
I know when I'm feeling bad physically, whatever.
45:33
But when I, it, it took a lot of effort to let certain parts that
45:38
go. So is there's this aspect where
45:41
people can get so comfortable being in misery, being in
45:45
distress, being, you know, having these things of self
45:49
worth that they're, they're worthless, that it's almost
45:52
impossible for them to get out of it.
45:55
Is it fear the unknown or just comfort?
45:58
I, I thought about this a lot, Tom, because I'm like, if I can
46:02
figure this out, then maybe someone else doesn't have to go
46:04
through the hard stuff. Again, we walk our walk and we
46:11
don't talk our talk. I use my talk in the clinical
46:15
setting. Otherwise I'm very quiet and
46:18
reserved and I, you know, I've got my opinion, but I keep it to
46:21
myself. So the, the piece with it, when
46:24
you're talking about pain, there's emotional pain and
46:26
there's physical pain. Those are two different things.
46:29
So the physical pain we're better at dealing with because
46:32
we can look at it. My knee is killing me, my back
46:34
is killing me. I can see it.
46:36
The emotional pain requires a different type of operation.
46:41
And it tends to be we come to terms with our physical pain way
46:46
quicker, way easier than we do with our emotional pain.
46:50
And the emotional pain unfortunately leads to too many
46:56
committing suicide because they're not going to ask for
46:59
help because they see the stigma of what we're talking about.
47:05
Emotional pain means that you got to share it with another
47:08
human being. And the last thing I'm ever
47:10
going to do is give that up. It was too horrible.
47:13
It was too traumatic. I'm not.
47:15
And you either die miserable in old days or you take your life.
47:21
And that's why you giving me the opportunity to say these words
47:24
and share them. I can't thank you enough because
47:27
I need that heard too. Today 19 veterans are going to
47:32
commit suicide just like yesterday 19 committed it.
47:35
And tomorrow 19 more. And if I can say anything to
47:39
them as the V as there that they they've screwed up more than
47:43
enough times. But right now the VA is
47:46
understanding and they are there for the veteran.
47:50
Now to the civilian population. I've been a civilian now for
47:54
3738 years and I understand what it is to live this kind of
48:04
trippy. I mean, I know how to live in
48:07
the military. That made sense to me.
48:09
This doesn't. But I've grown accustomed to,
48:12
OK, this insanity is our insanity.
48:15
Let's live with it. And again, when you interact,
48:20
everybody that I talk to, I, I'm respectful to, I, I, I treat
48:24
them like equals. It doesn't matter how you treat
48:27
me because I am not going to allow you to make me do
48:31
something because of the way you treat me.
48:34
I I have too much respect for myself to say, you know I'm weak
48:39
and you know I have to throw a punch at you.
48:43
That was fine in my 20s, but not anymore.
48:46
You have this book, you're trying to get it out to a wider
48:49
audience. You're trying to help America's
48:52
youth. You know, as you kind of wind
48:54
this down, I mean, is there in all your teachings, all your
48:59
work, in the lies you've touched, it's not hopeless right
49:02
there. There is hope out there,
49:04
correct, If we just. Yeah.
49:07
I'm big on that. OK, tell me about that.
49:10
Yeah, because the hope is is that I'm sitting here, I told
49:15
you my story, and five years ago I was the first time in my
49:19
entire life that I ever thought of taking my own life.
49:23
That was an eye opener. That was truly.
49:26
Oh my God. And so with that said, this
49:31
right now is my last hurrah and I'm doing it because I
49:36
absolutely know that there are answers out there that there
49:40
are, you know, there are going to be magnificent opportunities
49:47
in situations as equal to just the horrendous ones that are
49:52
going to be side by side. But I absolutely believe in our
49:56
kids and for the most part, the adult population.
50:00
I, I've learned to grow. You know, I can't, you know, I'm
50:02
used to you guys. You know, I'm used to them.
50:05
So I'm not going to be like condescending and rude.
50:08
But I now have a message that our youth are in trouble and we
50:15
can help them by us helping each other.
50:20
So that's the alpha and the Omega of the message that I
50:25
wrote a book and sitting here and grateful for the opportunity
50:28
you give me. Well, certainly been an
50:32
insightful 1 and it just shows that I think what I'm learning
50:36
is there's stuff going on for kids and people that we're never
50:42
really going to see. And what, what I guess what I'm
50:44
trying to say is what I see from my children, other people is not
50:49
the truth. And so there's a reason they're
50:51
acting that way. And may they may not even know
50:54
why they're doing it. And so certainly change my
50:56
perspective on how I look at people.
50:59
But the other part that I really like is you seem to have this
51:03
theme of, Hey, somebody can do something to me, you, but I'm
51:08
not I, I, I'm not going to let it affect me because I know who
51:13
I am, I'm comfortable with. I am.
51:15
So if I have that, you can't impose your will upon me.
51:21
And I think a lot of people don't know that or miss that.
51:24
That's that's what I'm learning in our talk.
51:27
And there's a, there's a, a bonus above that, OK, the
51:30
universe wants what is best for us and it can't give it to us
51:37
when we're not the best we're meant to be.
51:40
So in the process of becoming the best you can possibly be,
51:44
you're not doing it for the Atta boys, from the kids, the wife,
51:48
the, the society. You're doing it because you're
51:51
coming to terms with understanding the greater
51:54
universe in that if you are humble and a peacemaker, the
52:01
universe can work through you and in through me is why I can
52:06
answer to you. There is hope.
52:08
Tom, I've learned a whole lot in the last hour that we've been
52:10
talking and I can't wait to dive more into your book and your
52:15
story, what you're doing. I certainly do hope that you,
52:18
maybe this was a push, I don't know, but that you get heard on
52:22
a on a wider audience because I think there's no doubt about it,
52:25
people are hurting and kids are definitely hurting.
52:27
So I think there's hope. And I appreciate you coming on
52:30
talk with me so openly and freely.
52:33
Yeah. And I appreciate yours because
52:34
I'm very comfortable. I felt appreciated and I felt
52:38
understood. And that mutual bond that we
52:42
spoke of prior, I am forever grateful.
52:44
And I got a new friend. So thank you.
52:46
Absolutely, absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, this is
52:49
the best part. I do not Oscar Micrito.
52:51
You get to meet these people who had to rebuild their lives,
52:54
transition different aspects of their perspective and how they
52:57
do things. And you know, Tom Mcgrave is no
53:00
exception. I'll have the link to his book
53:02
from Amazon, the Oscar Mike Rio Show post all the links to his,
53:06
you know, nonprofit and his website.
53:08
Please check him out as you sing OM Radio or Mission Flight.
53:12
Thank you so much. The biggest fear Gold Star
53:17
families have that their child will be forgotten.
53:19
We need to never forget freedom wasn't free.
53:23
The fact that they give us the life we have now, we should
53:26
remember them and like give thanks to them.
53:28
If I can be a part of something today that's going to make the
53:32
surviving family of any of these veterans, these heroes, feel
53:34
better tomorrow, than it's worth it.
53:36
That one wreath symbolizes one family, one family that was able
53:39
to smile because of DeGeneres donations.
53:41
To sponsor a wreath and honor a veteran, visit
53:44
wreathsacrossamerica.org. Thank you for listening and
53:49
watching OM Radio where our active duty service members and
53:54
veterans are in action and the mission is in flight.
54:00
OM Radio is an oversized load Co system one production.
54:07
If you are a veteran or you're a veteran who needs help, please
54:11
dial 98 and press one for the Veterans prices line.