Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #174: Matt Logan-Averett University

Transcript

#174: Matt Logan-Averett University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Welcome to season 3 of gila politics connection podcast.
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  Okay, that's enough of an inch. All right, let's get to it.
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  See what today's guest has in store for us. 1 2, 3.
• 0:41
  We're back here at the local, ethics track and field
• 0:44
  connections, podcast, get so many words in that title.
• 0:46
  I got to figure how to shorten that up.
• 0:48
  But you're here, I'm here. And our guest is here and I'm
• 0:51
  really excited about this because this guy is, this is a
• 0:55
  self-admitted quote from him. He's taken a non-traditional
• 0:58
  path to where he is today and I love stuff like that, right?
• 1:02
  I love tradition, but I love doing things differently.
• 1:04
  Awkwardly, weirdly uniquely. I think I just called him weird
• 1:08
  and he didn't even, he didn't even It.
• 1:10
  So let's get into it. Let's find out.
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  We've got the director of track and field at favorite
• 1:14
  University. The wise, the wonderful help me.
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  Welcome mat, Logan, Matt, how are you sir?
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  I'm getting Mike happy to be here, enjoy here for this
• 1:22
  conversation. You didn't realize that I would
• 1:24
  call you awkward and weird before we even hit the
• 1:26
  one-minute Mark, I would have been offended if it wasn't true
• 1:32
  but both things are true. So I'm very good.
• 1:34
  Hey that's how you know, you're real because you know, the non
• 1:37
  real person says, well, I'm not awkward.
• 1:38
  I'm not, you know, weird like yeah.
• 1:40
  Yes, Charles sorry, we're humans were all in some form or fashion
• 1:43
  that way, and if you're not you're probably kind of boring.
• 1:48
  Well, Matt man, you know, you are, if this goes to plan, this
• 1:53
  is episode number 174. So we've got 174 guests here,
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  including you now, and what we love to do here is, you know,
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  our goal is simply to uplift and honor the track and field coach
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  has of the world. Really?
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  But specifically here in America and we Do that by exploring your
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  journey, right? There's your path to where you
• 2:14
  are today has been uniquely made.
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  There's no two people who choose to be track coaches, who get to
• 2:19
  where they are in the same form or fashion, right?
• 2:22
  So we're going to eat, just learn from you and kind of
• 2:24
  figure out how you got to where you did the people that poured
• 2:27
  into you. The Lessons Learned kind of ups
• 2:30
  and downs and really just kind of, you know, honor you and your
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  journey here in this, this great profession.
• 2:35
  So, to do that, are you a Marvel or are you a comic book kid?
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  Or anything growing up. I hate.
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  I hate to say that. I was not and I'm not.
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  I know, I know. Yeah, I'm more of the kind of
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  more of the Indie flick guys. So like Paul Thomas Anderson.
• 2:51
  Those kind of movies supposed to the big superhero stuff and
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  comic book things so sorry that's okay.
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  I was a noble. I was a comic book guy and my
• 3:00
  favorite part about comic books where the origin stories.
• 3:04
  So, you know, how did Peter Parker become Spider-Man and how
• 3:07
  did Thor become He is at cetera, right?
• 3:12
  So that's what I want to do with you.
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  Let's kind of start with your origin story.
• 3:15
  Where does track coaching start for you as like a profession?
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  Like oh man, like I could actually maybe do this for a
• 3:22
  living. Where did that idea spark for
• 3:24
  you? Yeah, for sure.
• 3:26
  So, I'll answer that in two ways.
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  So so one is like, I think that everybody who is a coach had a
• 3:34
  coach that made them want to be a coach, right?
• 3:37
  And so so for Me my early years of high school when you know
• 3:44
  found the love for track and field and cross country.
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  I like thought deeply about, wow.
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  Like this person has had such a profound impact on my life,
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  could this be something like to explore right at professionally?
• 4:00
  But I really wasn't serious about that, right?
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  Like I sort of like I was pretty set on what I want to do for a
• 4:05
  living and and didn't think that I would be and I would end up
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  Coaching Trico. But I was always very interested
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  in sort of the mentoring in the coaching and Physiology and
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  stuff like that Sport and and then sort of in my adult life.
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  I was sort of done with the sport after college like after
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  my undergraduate I sort of wash my hands with it was like boy
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  and not because of like I had a bad experience or anything but
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  it was just like it was just I was good and then and then I
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  started working. Being at like, just a local
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  running store as a graduate student and just being around
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  the sport again and interacting with a lot of high school
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  athletes. I was interested in Sing with
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  this would be like kind of helping out right there.
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  Like, and I got connected with a local.
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  High school team and started coaching and just like soda,
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  just totally got right back into it.
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  And I do view it as sort of a calling, right?
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  I tried to, like, run away from this for a few different times
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  and it constantly sort of pulled me back towards it.
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  But but yeah, I was sort of doing a little bit helping out
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  just ask answering questions and working with some individual
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  athletes. When even I was a graduate
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  student, as a grad student, I was officially attached to the
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  Carrboro High School program right out.
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  Of Chapel Hill and, like it's really, really rich High School
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  cross country and track tradition there.
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  Like Crosstown Joan Nesbitt made this one of the High School
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  coaches. It's like, oh great, like we get
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  to get to run against the former un see coach.
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  It's this begin in many O'Grady by worked under there, but I
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  think does a fantastic job but I won't get ahead of myself here.
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  So, so that getting there, just being with the people and being
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  around the student-athletes every day was like, ah, like
• 6:01
  Maybe, maybe this is something I'm going to do or reconsider
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  but that was sort of that that spark right a it didn't sort of
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  jumped me and took full time coaching at that but it
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  certainly was the spark for that when you said every coach had a
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  coach who helped who helped them want to be a coat, you know, was
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  kind of their inspiration, right?
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  Everybody who heard that instantly thought of of that
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  person or persons. So who was that for you?
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  Yeah. I say this carefully because
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  I've had a ton of really awesome coaches that have really lived
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  in to me. I I put a lot of sports growing
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  up, right? And I was not very good, I
• 6:46
  worked really hard. We have a lot in common so far
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  you know, like I got a lot of those like hey you can defend
• 6:53
  and you can dribble just don't shoot the ball like just don't,
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  you know me. So see I got you because no one
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  ever told me I could defend or dribble, so Yeah.
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  Yeah. Okay, so you weren't that bad
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  but okay, keep going. Yeah, yeah.
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  And and, you know, and so I was sort of the I was sword, always
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  kind of the overlooked athlete like even as a young person,
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  right? Like always sort of like I
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  played, it was competitive but I was never the guy or even one of
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  the two or three guys but I was really close to my coaches.
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  You know. I try to like always get kind of
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  underneath the sport and and when I was in high school I was
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  named the captain of my cross-country.
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  My sophomore year of high school and Coach, Thorpe, and Thorpe
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  and Mark Nelson. Were the two coaches coach
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  Thorpe is still coaching and Dixon.
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  He's now at the middle school level, because his son is
• 7:43
  actually coaching at the high school level.
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  Awesome. Awesome guy.
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  Still talk to him all the time, talk to his son all the time and
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  Mark Nelson was also the assistant coach there, but I
• 7:53
  would say Evan for me. Like it was the first time that
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  anybody besides sort of my parents like really believed in
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  me. The right and knowing what that
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  felt like, was like the profound impact that that had on my life
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  and knowing like, wow, like that that he probably didn't like,
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  see that sort of grand gesture, but that sort of thing.
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  Like, I felt like I was doing things the right way and that
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  remember we had a conversation one time.
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  He was like, Hey, like this is your team.
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  This is not my team, it's the whole team and as the cap in
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  like your team, so you get to shape the culture and we kind of
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  get to be partners in this. And that was Bit terrifying, but
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  also the ability to impact, like me in that way, it really had a
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  profound effect on. Like, so I view myself as like,
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  I get to be somebody who believes in other people.
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  And that's, that's my role as a coach, somebody who sometimes
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  believes in other people more than they believe in themselves.
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  And that was true for Evan for me and, and I hope I hope to do
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  that to other athletes as well. So that was, that was The guy
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  for me, Isn't that the real superpower of coaching?
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  The ability to see something and others before they can see it in
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  themselves. Yeah, and I think it's what I
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  appreciate it is it was I felt like there were some intangible
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  things that were seen because I searched like I was on a team
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  with some really good athletes and I certainly was not the best
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  athlete on the team but but yeah, it feels it's pretty
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  unique to coaching, you know. Yeah, I think it's pretty like,
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  you know, sometimes it can happen professionally right.
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  But but I think daily the idea that you get to like, come to
• 9:39
  practice. Octus and expect some things
• 9:42
  shows that you sort of believe that your athletes are the
• 9:44
  people that you surround yourselves can do it.
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  So I think it's pretty awesome. I'm sure there's an accountant
• 9:48
  out right now out there that says man my accounting teacher
• 9:52
  believed in I'm sure there is but traditionally it's parents
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  and coaches your you kind of nailed it there.
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  You know, you said that, you know, coach Evan was like the
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  first person to really believe in you outside of your parents
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  into me. Like, I love that imagery.
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  I mean I love socially. It's not really knowing but kind
• 10:11
  of knowing getting ahead of myself here of your journey.
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  But to me, you know, that speaks to my heart of what I speak to
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  towards coaches because sometimes and I'll stereotype
• 10:23
  typically a younger coaches when we get into track and we
• 10:26
  certainly get into it in the right for the right reasons, but
• 10:28
  we really wants like we don't we don't feel like we are have
• 10:32
  really made it as a coach until we've coached all Americans or
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  all stayed athletes, or studs, Etc.
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  And the reality is, first of all, the reality is most of us
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  are Not, they're just not that many in aggregate for how many
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  athletes were working with, but the reality is no matter what
• 10:48
  the impact that you make on young people, the positive
• 10:51
  impact that you make on young, people is worth it all.
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  Like, you know, we're going to learn with your story that, you
• 10:58
  know, as not being that great of an athlete, maybe coach could
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  have easily seen him like a mat was, just another kid on the
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  team. You know, he went on to be a
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  great Carpenter or whatever blah blah but he poured into you as a
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  human As a person and how you're going on to do other, amazing
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  things poured into other young people like like Evans coach,
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  Thorpe's Legacy actually lives on through you because of what
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  he did with you. And not because you were a
• 11:22
  superstar because you were mad. You were a kid on his team that
• 11:26
  deserved it, you know? I love that that to me, is the
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  ultimate like, be where your feet are.
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  Would you have two kids, two hundred kids to five studs, no,
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  studs, whatever you define stud, as be the leader for those young
• 11:38
  people that they need, Need. You know, I love it, man.
• 11:41
  That's that's awesome. We could cut the podcast right
• 11:43
  there and we just had an amazing.
• 11:44
  I mean, seriously, guys, rewind and listen to that.
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  That is what you do. If you're a coach right now,
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  that is what you should be striving to do.
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  And I'm willing to bet, because I know a lot of you out there in
• 11:55
  the coaching world, that is what you are doing, okay?
• 11:58
  So you mentioned North Carolina and running and you're kind of
• 12:01
  done with it over. Where did you actually go to
• 12:03
  school and what did you do? Then if you kind of were over
• 12:06
  it, you said The Running Store. What did you move into
• 12:09
  professionally? Yeah, for sure.
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  So yeah, ran high school was was good, not great, a high school
• 12:15
  athlete spent some time in the DePaul University program.
• 12:19
  So Andy craft to you that on this podcast, was the guy who
• 12:22
  actually recruited me. And I haven't talked to Andy in
• 12:25
  a while but he had a big impact on me to like he had some even I
• 12:30
  I did choose to transfer from DePaul to Nai Olivet, Nazarene
• 12:34
  University and then I left all of that and I spent most of the
• 12:39
  time I'm in in the training room.
• 12:42
  They're not because my coaches would because I was immature and
• 12:47
  had a head at what you described is unhealthy ego sneak in and
• 12:52
  runs like sometimes two three times a day and so yeah yeah he
• 12:59
  had some had some growing up to do right the opposite of what
• 13:01
  you want. Now today as a coach think about
• 13:04
  that sometimes Mike like man I would have just been a nightmare
• 13:08
  for myself. Now that's an interesting
• 13:12
  scenario, what if we could, you know, with all this, you know,
• 13:16
  Multiverse or not Multiverse but metaverse and all the stuff.
• 13:20
  What if you could actually like, hop into the, the metaverse and
• 13:23
  Coach yourself as an 18 or 20 or what a lesson that would be?
• 13:29
  Yeah, yeah, for sure. I feel like I've been kicked off
• 13:33
  of a few teams. Maybe kick yourself off.
• 13:36
  That's right. Yes, that's right.
• 13:38
  So my My coaches had much more patience for me than that.
• 13:42
  I have for others, Which is less than another stuff I guess.
• 13:45
  But yeah. So had also coaches at both of
• 13:47
  those stops and it like to shout those out, right?
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  Like at all, that car Rego, who is now Beckett, he's the
• 13:55
  director now tile, that was the assistant during that McDowell
• 13:58
  who since retired was, was the coach there and then Pat Savage
• 14:02
  and Dave do PEC, were two of the coaches at DePaul while I was
• 14:05
  there. And and so, yeah, I laughed and
• 14:08
  I studied theology. Political science at all of
• 14:11
  that, right? And so, my plan was to, I wanted
• 14:17
  to go to law school but also study Theology and So the plan
• 14:22
  is like to work for like the UN or something someday, right?
• 14:24
  Or be some sort of Diplomat or foreign services or whatever.
• 14:28
  And so and and so I went to went to graduate school at Duke and
• 14:37
  after the first semester there, I Did not want to be a lawyer
• 14:42
  anymore. And so I did a what's called an
• 14:45
  MTS degree. So it's a master theological
• 14:47
  study. So it's not quite the, like most
• 14:51
  people when they want to go into theology will do an m.div right?
• 14:54
  Which is like sort of pastor training the masculinity.
• 14:57
  I did the MTS which is more the academic track as going to do a
• 15:00
  PhD in Theology. And so so yeah, studied a lot
• 15:05
  learned a lot. I do think studying philosophy
• 15:07
  and theology help make me a better coach.
• 15:10
  In some very particular kind of ways like understanding systems
• 15:13
  and how one thing affects other things.
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  But But during that time, just to kind of, we were my wife got
• 15:21
  married, very young, right? So, my wife, and I were broke
• 15:24
  broke and graduate school and to make some extra money.
• 15:29
  I started started working at a local running store and that
• 15:34
  kind of ballooned into like a larger career after graduate
• 15:38
  school. So, so yeah, do it.
• 15:41
  Do its the marketing community outreach there and then
• 15:43
  eventually got into working working in the church working at
• 15:47
  first person. Sheraton in Greensboro North
• 15:49
  Carolina, which big downtown church, had an awesome awesome
• 15:54
  experience there. And I'm, I'm still, that's where
• 15:57
  we attend right? Still, very, very connected
• 15:58
  with, with that church, teaching Sunday, School classes, and
• 16:00
  things there, too. So, but yeah, that's not to get
• 16:03
  ahead of myself, but that's sort of how that that happened from
• 16:07
  from Illinois to North Carolina. So, North Carolina's, kind of
• 16:11
  home now. Yeah, been here for between
• 16:15
  eight almost nine years now. So yeah, we love it.
• 16:22
  Like we love to run. We were there and spend some
• 16:26
  time Chapel Hill as well. And now Greensboro is a little
• 16:30
  bit of a, it's awesome to write. We love.
• 16:33
  It's Lil Bit of a tougher time which we kind of like and and
• 16:37
  it's a good spot, Russ and have three children that we're
• 16:41
  raising your path. Do it because it's a great spot
• 16:44
  you mentioned. So after The Running Store, you
• 16:47
  kind of started didn't understand if he was
• 16:50
  volunteering or assistant coach of you started working for a
• 16:52
  high school. What was that?
• 16:53
  Like the first time you kind of not even got back into coaching.
• 16:57
  This was kind of your first taste of actual coaching.
• 16:59
  What was that? Like Yeah, it felt.
• 17:07
  It felt like it was where I belonged, you know, it's like I
• 17:14
  guess I felt like a native speaker and and and was able to
• 17:21
  work with someone who was really patient with me, as I got back
• 17:25
  to it and sort of transition from thinking about things, as
• 17:28
  an athlete thinking about things, as a coach, which are
• 17:31
  Richard really different. And and in that like I said,
• 17:35
  that was sort of a spark where it Like it was sort of like
• 17:38
  maybe I have to do this and sometimes I have to do this is
• 17:43
  outweighs. I want to do this sometime
• 17:45
  because it's a lot of long hours and you beat up a little bit,
• 17:50
  but that's okay. I like it's sort of a very, very
• 17:52
  special sort of sacred thing, right?
• 17:54
  Coaching especially coaching track and field and cross
• 17:55
  country. So yeah, we're worked at
• 17:57
  Carrboro High School which is a kind of a, not a big school, not
• 18:01
  a small school but they want me a great.
• 18:04
  He's the head coach there, they want, you know, a handful of
• 18:08
  state championships and crime spree and they're really good
• 18:11
  inside. And Mimi told me one time.
• 18:15
  She said, if you really want to do this, you have to stop being
• 18:17
  such a dude coach. And that was, what does she mean
• 18:21
  by that? Yeah.
• 18:22
  Right. Right, I knew exactly what she
• 18:25
  meant. Were you like going out from
• 18:27
  California? You were going around like, hang
• 18:28
  loose and do this, and do that, where, you know, no, I think, I
• 18:34
  think it's just like, I think something that Mimi is really
• 18:38
  coach of Grady is really, really good at it.
• 18:41
  She talks about the Rubik's Cube a lot, right?
• 18:43
  And so coaching is not an imposition, it's not imposing
• 18:48
  what you think on a situation, it is sort of like a
• 18:52
  relationship and finding out how to not solve like that's not a
• 18:56
  that's a reductive way to look at it, right?
• 18:58
  But but how to work with each particular athlete and I've
• 19:01
  never seen somebody that's more, just emotionally intelligent
• 19:06
  among you. Young women athletes and and
• 19:11
  great with with the young men too.
• 19:12
  But aspect like those women, those young would just believe
• 19:16
  like, they just believed in her spike.
• 19:17
  It was, we would wild. It was wild to see her sort of
• 19:20
  workers like sorcery and and they do anything like got to a
• 19:27
  point where they do anything for, but it was because she
• 19:29
  didn't expect them to, she wanted to honor, you know, their
• 19:34
  their desires and their wants to so, so I learned it On from her,
• 19:37
  just about the relationship building and the emotional side
• 19:40
  of coaching and was a really, really good that allows their
• 19:44
  very briefly if you're a seasoned.
• 19:46
  So, but it was a very, very good sort of coaching 101, right?
• 19:52
  Kind of Entry entry point into, it's not all about the
• 19:55
  physiology, it's not all about the X's and O's.
• 19:59
  It's not all about talking about the post on, I won't say the
• 20:03
  name is what websites the the And you can say it, it's
• 20:08
  everybody's favorite. Not favorite website.
• 20:11
  Yeah. But you know it's the only thing
• 20:19
  I'm on there for right? Right.
• 20:21
  So yeah that I think that's kind of what you meant by a dude
• 20:24
  coach. Right.
• 20:25
  It's not like hey bro what's your PR at?
• 20:28
  It's like let's let's find out let's let's stand alongside
• 20:34
  these athletes and go on a journey.
• 20:36
  It's been Other and really get emotionally invested in their
• 20:39
  lives and see them this as whole people and not just Runners.
• 20:43
  And so, I think that that really, I knew that right, but I
• 20:47
  had to be reminded of it. People had done that in my life,
• 20:50
  but it was sort of like seeing it seeing it up.
• 20:53
  Close on the other side for the first time, somebody who does it
• 20:55
  really really? Well was, it was great really
• 20:58
  great. We've had this kind of
• 21:00
  conversation in several different forms throughout the
• 21:02
  episodes here on the podcast you had mentioned about You know,
• 21:06
  transitioning from athlete to coach with Cameron Babb head
• 21:11
  coach at Washburn. We talked about, you know, when
• 21:13
  you're an athlete, when information is given to you.
• 21:15
  It's a very selfish act. Meaning, you know, you're trying
• 21:17
  to take in what coach says and how do I get better off of it?
• 21:21
  When you become a coach and you receive info.
• 21:23
  So whether you had a seminar, you're talking with a peer or
• 21:26
  had a coaching education event itself, less, you're trying to
• 21:29
  take that information and now how do I spit it out to my
• 21:32
  athletes a couple weeks ago? We had new.
• 21:36
  Or track and field at Kent State them finger.
• 21:39
  And he talked about, you know, when he first started it was
• 21:41
  kind of like, 10% people. 90% the, the Articles, the science,
• 21:46
  the, you know, the for his case, for throwing, you know, when to
• 21:50
  lift this one to throw that and now he's learned and become a
• 21:54
  better Coach, because he's flipped it.
• 21:55
  It's like 90% about the person that they're working with and
• 21:59
  10% of the technique and things like that.
• 22:01
  How did you and maybe it progresses past working with
• 22:05
  Coach Mimi Rogers? During that time, as you're kind
• 22:07
  of still figuring this out. How did that transition happen
• 22:11
  for you? I did it.
• 22:12
  Was it a fast transition? Was it slow?
• 22:15
  What? Eventually kind of hit you up in
• 22:16
  the head was like oh man, you know what?
• 22:18
  I'm in the people business, first and foremost, Yeah, you
• 22:21
  know. Physiology is complex but it's
• 22:28
  technical, right? Like, you can kind of figure it
• 22:30
  out. People are people are complex in
• 22:31
  a different way. Like people are complex because
• 22:34
  they're there. They did bring something
• 22:40
  different to practice every day and and you're accountable to
• 22:44
  them, right? And so like I don't think of
• 22:47
  myself as accountable for the physiology or accountable to the
• 22:49
  X's and O's. I think like you do need to know
• 22:52
  what you're talking about. I guess it just a Like you do
• 22:54
  really need to know you're talking about, but but my
• 22:57
  Ministry really helps with this working working with people and
• 23:02
  Industry and and it sort of walking with them through some
• 23:05
  some awesome time. But also some really dark times
• 23:07
  to really helps to know that everybody had a different
• 23:14
  experience leaving home that day.
• 23:16
  Like everybody got a different grade on a test that day at
• 23:20
  school, like but he has a different situation going on at
• 23:23
  home. And and it's it's like I think
• 23:26
  sometimes coaches talked about this and I don't think that mean
• 23:29
  this, but they talk about it as like getting to know.
• 23:31
  The person is a pathway into their athletic Endeavors like.
• 23:34
  Well, that's not really what it's about, right.
• 23:35
  Those things are always sort of joined like you know, like a
• 23:39
  helix right is like I think of I think the both the belief is
• 23:43
  like a cycle where rate like, if that athlete knows that you
• 23:49
  believe in them and you want the best for them as a person,
• 23:52
  right? They're going to Hit that belief
• 23:55
  and do you know don't be your person like they'll be your
• 23:58
  they'll be your guy or girl like they'll be you're saying in a
• 24:02
  weird way like they'll do what they tell you to they'll trust
• 24:05
  you and when you get into that like sort of place it's rare I
• 24:09
  think but it it's sort of a sacred kind of Coach athlete
• 24:15
  sort of relationship. And and I learned it from just
• 24:21
  applying what I learned from like you know customer service
• 24:24
  Marketing into and ministry as well to be present with other
• 24:29
  people. But it's it's something you have
• 24:32
  to learn how to do, you know? And, and I wish I was better at
• 24:37
  and sometimes I will be doing my commute home and think, Boyd,
• 24:40
  Balu that right? Like, boy, that person really
• 24:43
  needed me to be there for him, and I sort of told him to go ice
• 24:47
  or something, you know, whatever it is, you know, there and
• 24:50
  usually, it's not, it's not about what it's about.
• 24:54
  When there's there's tension you know so tell me more about that.
• 24:58
  It's not it's not necessarily always about what it's about.
• 25:02
  Yeah. Like when you have expectations
• 25:05
  and rules like as a coach sometimes like oh these people
• 25:08
  are meeting or not meeting these things and it's like, okay, like
• 25:11
  take another step. I can get underneath the water,
• 25:15
  get underneath to the Y and and try to, and try to connect.
• 25:21
  Because if you're not able to like it, Just it's not going to
• 25:25
  work out, right? Like it just becomes an echo
• 25:27
  chamber and you're not really talking to a person you're
• 25:29
  talking to like, you know, something you're trying to like
• 25:33
  impose yourself on or pose yourself upon and and it becomes
• 25:36
  less of a relationship. And so I think right?
• 25:42
  Like knowing Yeah, knowing that somebody missed a practice or
• 25:48
  somebody was late, and they need to be on time, but they did to
• 25:52
  be there, right? But finding out, the why right?
• 25:55
  Is is incredibly incredibly important to try to get
• 25:57
  underneath things I think. And and usually usually you can
• 26:03
  you can deduce a problem. That is much more complicated
• 26:08
  than you. Once suspected has to do it
• 26:10
  mental health or confidence or right.
• 26:14
  A relationship that fell apart or has coaches your coach and
• 26:19
  you're also sort of a social worker.
• 26:22
  Have you heard of the principal y times?
• 26:23
  5, I've heard of it but I'm not. Yeah, I'm not super familiar
• 26:29
  with it. Yeah, you're kind of describing
• 26:31
  it. So when you said what presences,
• 26:35
  the problem is, typically not the problem.
• 26:37
  So I think about this late for practicing.
• 26:39
  So why were you late? Well, I missed the bus to get to
• 26:41
  the tracker what? Now it's like, oh, you got, you
• 26:43
  know? Well, gosh, dang it.
• 26:43
  You got to be at the bus. Time that surface level, that
• 26:46
  was the problem. There's a principle of when a
• 26:49
  problem is presented to you asking why?
• 26:52
  And then when that answer is given, well, why was that?
• 26:54
  And then when that answers given Y, is that typically by the
• 26:57
  fifth y you can actually get to what the real root of the
• 26:59
  problem is, which is what we talked about a lot of coaches.
• 27:01
  Anyway, right? Like, how do I solve the root of
• 27:04
  the problem? Not the, you know, 10 feet above
• 27:06
  the ground here, so, you know, I missed the bus.
• 27:08
  Oh, you know why, what happened there?
• 27:10
  Well, you know, my car broke down.
• 27:12
  Oh well, what happened there? Well, my Significant other
• 27:16
  didn't, you know, pay their rent on time and so we couldn't
• 27:20
  afford the car and now they're leaving.
• 27:22
  And I'm up the creek or what, you know?
• 27:24
  Oh, well, I haven't there. You actually get to find the
• 27:26
  problems. Like, oh, they have an unstable
• 27:27
  housing life right now and relationship life.
• 27:30
  That's why they really miss practice, and maybe practices a
• 27:33
  little less of a priority right now because of all these other
• 27:36
  things that's kind of, as you were saying that, you know, the
• 27:38
  problem is not necessarily always the problem that's kind
• 27:40
  of what made me think about. You know, asking why that's
• 27:42
  that's actually the second time you talked about Use the
• 27:47
  descriptor of getting under you talked about when you were in
• 27:49
  high school as an athlete, you like to get under the coaching.
• 27:53
  Now, you're talking about getting to the athlete and
• 27:54
  getting under. Are you using that as a metaphor
• 27:57
  of like understanding the? Why behind it, not just the
• 28:00
  okay, go run 5 by 1 mile. Okay, make sure your practice at
• 28:03
  3:00 what the actual Y and reason behind Things Are I think
• 28:09
  so. And also it's also a self
• 28:14
  reminder of like why we're doing what we're doing it in a very
• 28:17
  sort of technical way, but also in a personal way to write like
• 28:25
  it's like being a 16 year old kid and your coach is telling
• 28:28
  you to run like 70 miles a week is, it's not an easy thing to
• 28:31
  do, right? It's not like and so, So I am
• 28:36
  something my the athletes that I've worked with get so sick of
• 28:38
  me saying and I said all the time it's like running is not
• 28:41
  about running right for track and field is not about track and
• 28:44
  field meaning that hopefully we're not doing this just to run
• 28:49
  fast and throw things far, jump far right, Jump Highway.
• 28:52
  We're it's sort of a conduit to experience life and so or a
• 28:59
  vector, I to experience life together and so I wanted to
• 29:05
  really understand. The values that different
• 29:10
  coaches that I had had, and I had somebody that when I was
• 29:12
  really young and running, that was really important.
• 29:15
  Is name is Kel Bond division. Three guy, middle distance
• 29:17
  Runner, and he was from my hometown, right?
• 29:20
  And the way he talked about running track and field was if
• 29:25
  it was like some sort of secret Club, I think about it in terms
• 29:31
  of a lot about like how stand-up comedians talk about being a
• 29:34
  stand-up comedian, right? Like you just wanted to be one
• 29:37
  of those guys, you know, like when I see really special
• 29:41
  coaches and I see those conversations that happen at
• 29:45
  beats on the infield and I'm just like an athlete.
• 29:47
  It's like I wonder what they're talking about and I think that's
• 29:51
  what I mean underneath. Said that right?
• 29:53
  I wanted to be, I wanted to be a conversation partner and what
• 29:58
  seemed to me to be a very internal conversation, amongst
• 30:01
  track and field coach has. And, and I think all coaches
• 30:06
  that at most levels, right? I think I Got a while.
• 30:08
  I mean I'm sure I know it a lot of coaches because I did
• 30:11
  constantly ask like why we're doing what we're doing.
• 30:15
  But I think it was also it was a real curiosity.
• 30:21
  I think I'm a pretty curious person and so I really kind of
• 30:25
  want to get to the like you said, the root of things or the
• 30:27
  bottom of things, I think about it a little bit different terms
• 30:30
  of like sort of Upstream Downstream, you know, like sort
• 30:33
  of what you put in the water tank top is like going to float
• 30:35
  down and so trying to find And out, what's being put in the
• 30:39
  water up there? Or what's, you know, what's
• 30:41
  fallen into the river and how that, sort of matriculating
• 30:45
  Downstream, I think is, is what I was curious about, right?
• 30:50
  Like what, what, what's happening?
• 30:52
  Sort of at the source and how can I be an actor in this
• 30:57
  conversation and and it made track until the really cool and
• 31:02
  made it feel like these these coaches had all these secrets of
• 31:05
  things, you know? It's a I really like that
• 31:07
  aspect. And I found out that nobody
• 31:09
  knows anything. Yes, but that's not super.
• 31:11
  We're all just looking our best guesses here.
• 31:12
  Exactly. Well, let's continue down the
• 31:14
  stream. Where did after you had a pretty
• 31:19
  I don't want to overstate it may be in say life-altering, but a
• 31:22
  pretty impactful time with Coach Mimi Rogers there.
• 31:25
  What was the next step? Yeah.
• 31:27
  And sorry. It was menial Grady.
• 31:28
  I'm sorry but grow. Rogers will come up down the
• 31:31
  road. Yeah, yeah so coach Rod you for
• 31:34
  coming down the road? Yeah.
• 31:35
  So so when we were in Durham Annie my wife is incredibly
• 31:43
  talented artist person. She went to school for Fashion
• 31:47
  Design and Merchandising. She got this.
• 31:49
  Our this this amazing job offer in Greensboro which is sort of a
• 31:52
  very big textiles Hub. Huge textiles Hub, right?
• 31:57
  And and so she got this, this amazing job offer and and she
• 32:02
  sort of talked about it. Offhand one day and we were
• 32:06
  expecting our first child as well during this time.
• 32:08
  And so I was, I was like, well, hey, like like how serious you
• 32:14
  about this and and we had a conversation about it and it
• 32:18
  was, it was sort of only like 45 minutes up the road.
• 32:20
  So it wasn't like we're moving our lives.
• 32:22
  For some totally different place and leaving.
• 32:24
  Leaving a bunch of our relationships and our friends
• 32:27
  and that was in Greensboro. So I've I asked her if she was
• 32:30
  like what will you do? And I was like I'll find
• 32:32
  something to do right like out and that's when I started
• 32:35
  applying to churches in the Greensboro area.
• 32:38
  And and so we moved to Greensboro for her job and and I
• 32:45
  kind of got my my beak wet and coaching and I'm so Eris to say
• 32:50
  this. But my first day on the job, but
• 32:53
  the executive pastor at the church, I was at Woods long time
• 32:56
  ago, I'll make fun of them, not that long ago but long time ago
• 33:00
  he was 400 burglar at DPW Richard Virginia.
• 33:03
  And so I think I only got the job there because I talked about
• 33:06
  track and field and cross country and the interview pretty
• 33:08
  sure. Just wanted to train partner
• 33:11
  right now. So so movie, Greensboro started,
• 33:17
  working at the church in my first Converse, my first day, I
• 33:21
  was like, hey, Neal like who are people, I can reach out to about
• 33:26
  coaching here in Greensboro and he gave me, he gave me a couple
• 33:29
  of names and I text those people and I said, hey can we meet for
• 33:34
  coffee? And I literally the first day I
• 33:35
  started at that for coffee about an assistant coaching job at a
• 33:38
  high school that day that day and that was that that was at
• 33:41
  page High School in Greensboro downtown.
• 33:43
  High school and I started and I just want to be around the
• 33:46
  sport, so they very, very good. Well, coach program traditional
• 33:52
  program, the in a blue, her being a blue and her father, was
• 33:56
  the assistant David blue at the time.
• 33:59
  And I was like, hey, like I'll take splits.
• 34:03
  I don't care right. Like I'll, I'll set up a tent,
• 34:07
  you know? Like I just want to be around
• 34:08
  Sport and so is totally unpaid right?
• 34:12
  Volunteer thing. And then, once I it is a very
• 34:16
  big program. Big Public School, big diverse,
• 34:18
  humble Downtown, Greensboro and once had, that's really some
• 34:23
  success in some really great athletes come to that place to.
• 34:25
  But once I, I started there, I was just hooked man, like it was
• 34:31
  just over and that's when my wife used to joke with me that
• 34:35
  like my unpaid volunteer High School coaching job was my
• 34:40
  full-time job and my job at the church's, my parts at my side
• 34:43
  house. Which is not, which is not true,
• 34:46
  but but yeah in so that, that season was was awesome.
• 34:51
  And and at the end of that year, the Anna was having a child to
• 34:57
  change in her life and she came and talked to me.
• 34:59
  And she just said, hey, I think you should be the head coach.
• 35:02
  He's been head coach and I talked to her dad David and he
• 35:07
  was the head track coach. I became head cross coach at the
• 35:10
  time and then that's what things.
• 35:13
  Really that's when it started to feel like this is what I, this
• 35:17
  is just what I want to do. Like this is what I'm called to
• 35:19
  do, this is what I should be doing and I said to you, when we
• 35:22
  talked last time that like men coaching felt more like
• 35:25
  Ministry, the ministry did, that's when it was like and I
• 35:29
  obviously like we're not doing Bible study, Public School
• 35:31
  coaching, but you get to care about people, you get to really
• 35:34
  care for people and in love people.
• 35:36
  And and so that's when I was like, hmm.
• 35:41
  Let's see, let's see where this goes.
• 35:43
  You know, let's let's see where this goes and and so I spent
• 35:47
  three really great years at page had some really, really great
• 35:52
  athletes and loved. I mean we had a couple of teams
• 35:56
  there. Can I tell a story about an
• 35:58
  athlete really quick? Absolutely.
• 35:59
  Okay. So I sometimes get emotional
• 36:02
  talking about this because it's just I joke that you know I joke
• 36:05
  that there's two kinds of coaches coaches, that have their
• 36:07
  fate athletes and coaches that are line.
• 36:10
  And so There's this young man. I'm not going to say his name
• 36:16
  Federal permission to, but we had two guys on that team.
• 36:21
  Who were three guys on that team, who are now division?
• 36:23
  One Runners really good. Guys.
• 36:25
  And in one, two young ladies on that team who are division one
• 36:29
  Runners right now as well. One's individual stock by one is
• 36:32
  a good one. Runner middle distance Runner
• 36:34
  and I started there, there's this guy who bumped to run but
• 36:39
  he's like a 26 minute 5ki, you know.
• 36:42
  And when I took over the head coaching job, I'd like did
• 36:45
  something I don't do anymore, but I send out these like
• 36:47
  surveys and one of the questions on the survey is because we had
• 36:50
  a lot of like dual sport dad like the cross players, whatever
• 36:52
  do just kind of run across and I want to kind of change that
• 36:55
  aspect of it, change that culture and I send out the
• 36:59
  survey this sounds like something like in a like a
• 37:01
  Disney of your thing I sought out the survey and what
• 37:03
  questions in service. Like how hard do you want to be?
• 37:06
  Pushed right, one to ten in this young dude.
• 37:09
  When 26 minutes in the 5K crossed out 10, wrote 11 next to
• 37:14
  a circle bit and he did he got a web and and I love him to death
• 37:20
  and I always talked about how he was the cone Center for that
• 37:24
  team and he was our fifth guy, he's our fifth man on that team
• 37:28
  and we had, you know, three Division 1 guys on that team and
• 37:33
  he's attending he's not he's not running some pops up, I think
• 37:36
  For NC State. But he's attending NC State
• 37:37
  right now. And, and he, those are the kind
• 37:42
  of guy, but the kind of athletes I wanted to work with, and those
• 37:46
  other people were great. I don't want them in my eyes
• 37:48
  like the effort that they put into, but but it's really it's
• 37:53
  easier to run. I think 60 and 70 miles a week
• 37:55
  when you're getting at all times around your neck every weekend
• 37:58
  at the invitationals. But when you're a 26 minute guy
• 38:01
  and you drop from 26 minutes to a mid 70s 5 day, I It's harder
• 38:06
  to walk going around 70 miles a week, and he was like, what do
• 38:10
  you want me to do? What do you want to do?
• 38:11
  So and started 26th and maybe the connection messed up there,
• 38:16
  he went to Seven Seventeen and a half.
• 38:18
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, he did not
• 38:21
  heartbreaking, heartbreaking, heartbreaking, he did not run
• 38:25
  his senior season because of the covid pandemic and gay men, so
• 38:29
  he but really, really, really special group of athletes.
• 38:34
  And in that, Was really influential talk about coaches
• 38:40
  being a pledge which is certainly true that team.
• 38:42
  And the way those how close those people were and how
• 38:45
  amazing these people or was really, like just amazingly it's
• 38:49
  lunch on me. Like this is what I have to do,
• 38:51
  right? Like this is this is the only
• 38:53
  thing I want to do. I find that really interesting
• 38:56
  because we're talking about 16 17, 18 year old kid, their kids
• 39:00
  still here in high school no matter how mature wherever they
• 39:03
  are and their their life stage, you know, I'm I'm the kind of
• 39:06
  kid that probably if my coach would have, give me that type of
• 39:09
  survey as a high schooler. I probably also would have
• 39:12
  crossed out 10 and added 11, but I didn't mean it.
• 39:16
  I'd have been like yeah, more like a five or a six boss, but
• 39:19
  I'm going to be funny and do that.
• 39:21
  It sounds like not only did he do that and meant it but
• 39:26
  received it because it's one thing to get pushed and you
• 39:30
  know, go from 20 feet is only twenty six to 21.
• 39:32
  I was like. Wow, that's amazing.
• 39:33
  I mean honestly that's like this is In job we we tend to
• 39:37
  sometimes with track because we deal with above-average to
• 39:41
  really good athletes. Like we some that sometimes
• 39:44
  poopoo what you know normal people can do in 21 minutes for
• 39:47
  5K, that's not easy. Go look at your local 5K and see
• 39:50
  how many people don't run better than twenty one event.
• 39:53
  So if that kid would have been 21, I've been like, oh, that's
• 39:55
  amazing. You know, but even down to 17
• 39:58
  and a half that's rarefied air. I know there's plenty of people
• 40:02
  faster, but 17 and half is rarified air.
• 40:04
  So not only did he like, Mint. Okay, push me like, I'm here for
• 40:10
  but he received it. He meant it.
• 40:11
  He took it and turned it into results, like that.
• 40:15
  Had to be like, if I'm the 15-minute guy, you know, number
• 40:18
  one, number two, number three guy, I'm looking at that going
• 40:21
  like, oh, okay, hold on, I know I may be more talent.
• 40:23
  I may be running faster, but what's he got that?
• 40:25
  I don't because he's getting a huge Improvement here.
• 40:30
  Yeah, and I think is a like it's such a gift to a coach, right?
• 40:33
  Because I think like you always want to celebrate the right
• 40:36
  things and you want to celebrate amazing athletes.
• 40:40
  Of course like we all want to celebrate that like the the big
• 40:44
  clot. So in North bounders for
• 40:46
  classes, right? And the big Class 2 Mile state
• 40:48
  champion was on that team and I talked about and he is amazing.
• 40:53
  Like I can't it seems like I'm talking down.
• 40:57
  Like I'm not all these athletes who are on this like a man.
• 40:59
  Most all of that like they were bits of awesome.
• 41:02
  Awesome people in that group. But I think it's important, kind
• 41:05
  of like how you what you celebrate the program and, and
• 41:10
  I'm super proud of that guy who want that state championship but
• 41:13
  I'm just as proud of that other dude.
• 41:15
  Like I am like because it was inspired and helped.
• 41:18
  You know, just jeez just helped so much to see him like kind of
• 41:23
  come slowly sort of increase in income through the, from
• 41:26
  literally being the last guy through the chute.
• 41:30
  Um to, you know, being a contributor on some some really,
• 41:34
  really good teams and so, so man, it was I think about that
• 41:38
  all the time and I like when there's some hard days, it's
• 41:42
  like I get to do that, right? Like I get to be part of that
• 41:45
  whole thing which is which is really, really and so.
• 41:49
  So yeah I just that that team stood, like you said it's
• 41:53
  incredible 15 16 17, 18 year old the kind of impact they can have
• 41:57
  on like an adult's life and That group, really sort of like, put
• 42:02
  the nail in the coffin to like this is all I want to do, like I
• 42:06
  just want to be working with athletes, and I want to be
• 42:09
  working in track and field through the rest of my life.
• 42:11
  And that's what made it happen. How do you knowing that?
• 42:15
  We don't talk X's and O's. But I'm curious, you know, it's
• 42:17
  such an amazing Improvement. Let's call it 10 minutes, 26
• 42:20
  down to 17. I'm from Alabama, so that
• 42:22
  probably is 10 in my math world so we're just going to call it
• 42:24
  10. It's amazing, right?
• 42:26
  So and I don't know that it's necessarily Lee uncommon maybe
• 42:33
  that drastic is uncommon but High School coaches and even
• 42:36
  college coaches every season. We see the kid go from 21-minute
• 42:40
  5K to 1711 3 in the hundred to 1099 Shield.
• 42:45
  These huge chunks. How did you again?
• 42:48
  Not X's and O's, but on a philosophy, type of basis.
• 42:53
  How did you as that kid, kept getting better, especially in
• 42:56
  distance running, right? You're writing a lot of workouts
• 42:59
  of like, repeat Stuff and you're basing.
• 43:00
  Those on either race Pace or talking on my butt here because
• 43:04
  I'm not a distance coach, but, you know, maybe Jack Daniels
• 43:06
  formula, Etc. But your base not off of some
• 43:08
  kind of PR. So you're based off of like the
• 43:10
  26-minute PR but at some point, he was running like at 23
• 43:15
  minutes before, he actually did it on the track or on the
• 43:18
  course. So you didn't know that he was
• 43:19
  officially a treat 23 Min again. How do you work?
• 43:23
  You know, he's probably killing workouts.
• 43:24
  How do you know when to cut the times down and when not to, by
• 43:29
  the way? Just because Cuz they're running
• 43:30
  faster. Doesn't necessarily mean, add
• 43:32
  more volume and things like that.
• 43:34
  How do you such a drastic change in P ours, through the year and
• 43:38
  years? How do you work that in your
• 43:41
  workouts without talking with x's and o's?
• 43:43
  Yeah, yeah. I think not I think sort of sort
• 43:47
  of talking generally is like it takes a kid that writes 11 next
• 43:51
  to it to sort of do that, right? To kind of to not be freaked out
• 43:56
  when like You know, that athletes starts running like,
• 44:02
  you know, 15 mile long runs faster than his like 5,000
• 44:06
  current 5,000 meter race pace, and you're so like, what's going
• 44:09
  on? But he can do it.
• 44:10
  Like they could do it. And and also just checking in
• 44:14
  with, like constantly, like how's it going?
• 44:16
  How are you feeling is? And so I think that having that
• 44:20
  relationship in being pretty particular about the kind of the
• 44:25
  kind of person that would You could even do that with it and
• 44:29
  not to get freaked out by that. Because you're right.
• 44:31
  Like there were times when it was like, Hey, like and I was
• 44:34
  like, why if you're running a PR?
• 44:35
  Like that's not really a threshold practice.
• 44:36
  You're not running a threshold run, you know.
• 44:39
  And so. But but he but this person
• 44:43
  particular like It happened so quickly because course, like,
• 44:50
  you know, there wasn't like potential there to run those
• 44:53
  types. It wasn't like he was a, he was
• 44:55
  a 26 minute guy because he just wasn't doing much, right?
• 44:58
  And and so, but I think it's also that constant encouragement
• 45:04
  where your you're calling out like Personal bests in calling
• 45:10
  out like celebrating the right things, you know, like whether
• 45:15
  that's hitting value Parks or hitting mark because it
• 45:17
  encourages athletes, if you're just always talking about your
• 45:20
  top athletes, I don't think you'll have that because like we
• 45:23
  post those early values or whatever ring.
• 45:26
  And so celebrating celebrating the right things and and making
• 45:32
  sure that because it holds your, your better athletes
• 45:35
  accountable. You know what I mean?
• 45:36
  It's like oh, Just talking about this person.
• 45:39
  And I'm, you know, what is he seeing there that?
• 45:41
  I maybe I'm not doing right, it's so I know I'm getting what
• 45:44
  question a little bit, but I think it's, I think it's
• 45:47
  happened. I just, I just read that Christy
• 45:51
  retirement of did Chris Derek just did?
• 45:53
  And he talks about kind of being where he was, as a freshman in
• 45:55
  high school and progressing. And and I but I think it's a lot
• 45:59
  of the the athlete willing to do it to like the athlete, you
• 46:02
  know, taking on that challenge and not sort of being freaked
• 46:06
  out by running a bomb or not. They're what what used to be
• 46:10
  sort of like 5,000 personal best.
• 46:12
  And that certainly was the case with paid, but it has quickly.
• 46:16
  So I don't know if that really answers your question.
• 46:18
  I guess it's all the same, like, kind I, you know, my God, I'm
• 46:20
  just making this up as I go of kidding.
• 46:25
  Hey, enjoy the club, buddy. So this is obviously a really
• 46:32
  fun time coaching. I mean, you know, winnings fun,
• 46:34
  right? Winning is hard.
• 46:36
  But when you're in the mix of with And you define when he
• 46:39
  doesn't necessarily mean, you're winning state titles and state
• 46:43
  22-mile titles and stuff which you are during that period.
• 46:46
  But you know, kids improving. That's winning, you know,
• 46:49
  culture being built. That's winning.
• 46:52
  You said, you spent three years there.
• 46:53
  Why in the world would you have left, man?
• 47:01
  you know, I think that reflecting on that recently is I
• 47:09
  wanted to do this for pot, right?
• 47:12
  And there are some high school jobs in the country that allow
• 47:15
  you to do that and I don't I'm not a teacher right on my
• 47:18
  teaching license. I could have sort of gone that
• 47:20
  route but I felt like this is all that I wanted to do and so I
• 47:27
  was sort of looking but I have to tell you it was really brutal
• 47:32
  like it was I tell and every interview that I did Yeah, I do
• 47:38
  like four jobs things. I want to things I say is like
• 47:41
  you know I cry at the banquet every year.
• 47:43
  So be prepared for that and man that there was a lot of Tears
• 47:48
  shed when I told the team that that it was in a and it was, it
• 47:54
  was, it was really hard because I loved it.
• 47:57
  I love those, I love those student athletes.
• 47:59
  I love the people that were surrounded, that that surrounded
• 48:01
  that program. I knew that I that if I wanted
• 48:07
  to be They do this full time and put all sort of my entire focus
• 48:13
  into this that I needed to make a change.
• 48:17
  And and I, and trust me I thought about like, I'll start,
• 48:20
  let's start a track club and lets, you know, to mean it.
• 48:22
  But like I said, I if I had two children at the time, right?
• 48:27
  So if I want to do this full time, there wasn't a lot of
• 48:29
  like, hey, give me 18 months to see if we can get this thing.
• 48:32
  God just Track Club going. It was more like like let's
• 48:37
  let's see what Kind of opportunities are out there.
• 48:41
  And so so I kind of entered the Collegiate ranks and started
• 48:47
  doing it on a full-time basis for in a sort of a strange way.
• 48:52
  Right? The the coach at the restored
• 48:55
  kind of Greensboro at the time, a Chad Pearson is now at NC
• 48:58
  State. He, he left UNCG for NC State
• 49:02
  and he's a, he's a great guy. Like I just met him at the sir,
• 49:04
  what? Like formally met him.
• 49:05
  I'd talk to you before but for me, that if the Sir Walter miler
• 49:08
  But he's great and it'd be hard not to join that.
• 49:11
  NC State program like the success of their women have had
• 49:15
  ever met the better bargain to and and so UNCG had an opening.
• 49:21
  And so they elevated the assistant to the inner pad and
• 49:25
  somebody at NC State, actually told me that this had happened
• 49:28
  before coach Pearson had announced that they're like, you
• 49:30
  know, it's tracking feel things. Get out right, everybody.
• 49:32
  So close like everybody knows everybody.
• 49:35
  And so I reached out to the The, the athletic director at that
• 49:39
  time at UNCG and was like, hey, I'm in town.
• 49:42
  You know? Like, I have some Division 1
• 49:47
  experience as an athlete, like had some success coaching at the
• 49:50
  high school level and and and Pad kind of went, didn't think
• 49:56
  like I'd have a shot honestly like, didn't think like, I would
• 49:59
  like, who am I? I'm a nobody, right?
• 50:01
  So and throughout the process, I met with the interim head coach,
• 50:06
  who's who are going off? Job right now at UNCG, Katie
• 50:10
  Roach and we just sort of clicked it just sort of worked
• 50:14
  out, you know? And so so yeah I mean II.
• 50:20
  Going from sort of just entering high school and only spending,
• 50:24
  like really three years, the high school level to getting
• 50:27
  sort of a you know, a division. One assistant job is, I'm
• 50:31
  incredibly thankful for that opportunity because I know it
• 50:33
  doesn't happen very often, like I know that that's pretty rare
• 50:38
  and it should not have been as hard, but decision as it was
• 50:43
  because it was a super passionate about it, but those
• 50:44
  students at page in the student-athletes at page, made
• 50:47
  it a brutal decision. And, I mean, I love those
• 50:52
  people. Like, I had those people dearly
• 50:54
  and, and, and so, yeah, ended up ended up joining the staff at
• 51:00
  UNCG as an assistant in. And I think I left, right,
• 51:05
  because I had a lot of encouragement from mentors and
• 51:09
  in my wife, right? Like this is what like I can
• 51:13
  tell like, this is the thing for you like, this is what you
• 51:16
  should be doing and you should go for it.
• 51:20
  I think you should really go for it.
• 51:21
  Make this your full-time thing, and and, and so.
• 51:25
  So yeah. But but I still stir on that
• 51:27
  because, you know, like I was cool but there's that fleets
• 51:31
  that are still in that high school program that that I, you
• 51:34
  know, I'm on miles, but all the time right?
• 51:36
  Look it up. Do you know what I mean?
• 51:37
  It's just like it's just making sure that they're being taken
• 51:40
  care of because I really loved those kids and, and had have
• 51:45
  nothing but good things to say about him.
• 51:46
  So, but that's a, that's a good question.
• 51:51
  Why do you think? You know, you have experienced a
• 51:54
  look back on. Now, you said earlier that, you
• 51:57
  know, it's fairly rare, a high school coach gets the shot at a
• 52:00
  college level job. If they want it and I've always
• 52:04
  been like, I don't understand it.
• 52:07
  It either besides just pure bias of like, oh well, you haven't
• 52:10
  done college and it's like, well, if coaching is number one
• 52:13
  to you, as far as hiring, then let that speak for itself.
• 52:16
  No matter what level may be harder on the high school level
• 52:18
  because of all the other stuff and teaching if you're a teacher
• 52:20
  Etc, but why do you think that's such a rare opportunity rare
• 52:27
  opportunity? But a high school coach gets to
• 52:29
  move up to the college ranks. I think because convention is
• 52:32
  easy, and curiosity is hard, mmm.
• 52:35
  You know, I think that I think that convention, oh, this is
• 52:40
  sort of the way it goes, right? You spend time in a program.
• 52:43
  Your you know, it's sometimes it's Unique to the division.
• 52:46
  Oh, you're you're a division to athlete.
• 52:49
  Oh, so you become a division to GA and then you become a
• 52:51
  division to assistant and then you become a division, one act,
• 52:53
  like it's sort of like a very sort of conventional approach in
• 52:57
  in, by the way, that has worked out pretty well for a lot of
• 53:00
  people. But but I think that I'm very
• 53:07
  I'm very happy that and also I think there's been really good
• 53:12
  results of giving High School coaches chances, but it's a
• 53:18
  different thing, and it's your right.
• 53:21
  There's there's harder and easier things about both the
• 53:24
  different jobs. But, but yeah, I think that Like
• 53:32
  if you can coach you can coach right?
• 53:34
  Like you know, whether that's at the community college level.
• 53:36
  They want to do 23, High School, Middle School.
• 53:39
  Like if you can coach like, you can coach and so But I think I
• 53:45
  think that's it, right? Is that like there's sort of a
• 53:46
  pattern and administrators are that occurs during look at this
• 53:50
  and say, like oh well do they check these sort of boxes?
• 53:54
  Okay, let's get him in. I've been really, really
• 53:57
  fortunate that the folks who have hired me not follow that
• 54:01
  pattern because I wouldn't have a job.
• 54:03
  You know what I mean? So so, yeah, I think I think I
• 54:10
  think some programs are missing out though, right?
• 54:12
  Like to give more High School coaches some opportunities.
• 54:15
  So should more High School coaches, be given those
• 54:17
  opportunities. Yeah.
• 54:20
  Absolutely. You know but at the things are I
• 54:24
  think the landscape is changing a little bit though to where,
• 54:29
  you know, Some of these assistant job, like you got to
• 54:34
  be paying coaches more, right? Like some of these same.
• 54:36
  Yeah. You know what I mean?
• 54:38
  It's like it's, it's hard to make a life.
• 54:41
  In some cases versus, oh, I'm a teacher.
• 54:44
  I have a teaching salary and I can coach and I can do it.
• 54:46
  I loved doing like, I know a lot of coaches.
• 54:49
  They're passionate teachers, they're passionate people.
• 54:51
  But let's be real right there. They're coaching.
• 54:56
  Is there sort of reason for teaching and and they put their
• 55:00
  heart at both of those things? But But I think that has that
• 55:04
  sort of the scales kind of tip. I think that there are some some
• 55:07
  high school jobs that maybe be are better jobs than some
• 55:12
  assistant College jobs and so. So I don't I don't get
• 55:17
  pigeonholed thinking like, oh, I like this person's a better
• 55:19
  Coach because they're here here here here because you've been
• 55:22
  around long enough and I you know, we know that that you know
• 55:26
  it's not it doesn't make as much sense as it sort of talk about
• 55:30
  it. It does it does doesn't, you
• 55:31
  know? It's so So, I was glad that that
• 55:36
  a very high level high school coach just got an opportunity to
• 55:39
  power five conference. I was glad to see that, and I
• 55:42
  think it should happen more often.
• 55:45
  But who's to sit, like, who's to say that those High School
• 55:49
  coaches that are running towards successful programs?
• 55:51
  Just don't want to stay there, right?
• 55:52
  And under programs, and do an awesome job there, too, because
• 55:55
  there are certainly out there and they're doing awesome
• 55:57
  things. So, in your reference, in
• 55:59
  Newport Newport or new park, I can't move it.
• 56:02
  The school you very Park in Newberry yeah going to UCLA,
• 56:05
  correct. Yeah, right.
• 56:06
  Yeah, right, yeah. And that was like the most
• 56:09
  amazing high school team ever. So, if that guy didn't get a
• 56:12
  chance, is this kind of like I no one's getting a chance here.
• 56:14
  Come on, man. I know it's like, I have no hope
• 56:16
  affect. Yeah, it's funny.
• 56:20
  When, like when that happens and we mentioned our favorite
• 56:24
  website, you know, it's all the, you know, well, Kenny coach in
• 56:27
  the college level Etc. Well, you know, I've done a
• 56:30
  hundred seventy plus interviews here.
• 56:32
  And 99% of the coaches say that, you know, we're in a people
• 56:36
  business first. So whether that person that
• 56:38
  people person is 18 years old or 22 years old or what have you.
• 56:43
  I just don't understand how like we're not talking about, you
• 56:45
  know, Elementary School like okay how you deal with a third
• 56:49
  grader? That, that certainly might be
• 56:50
  different than you deal with a sophomore in college, but we're
• 56:54
  talking about the same. People going to the same school,
• 56:56
  you know, High School to college transition in every High School
• 57:00
  coach, we've had here on the podcast and we've had National
• 57:02
  High School coaches of the year. You know, we had a couple of,
• 57:06
  you know, real small school, Kentucky, High School coaches.
• 57:10
  You know, they all talk about Adam catch it Albuquerque
• 57:13
  Academy. He talks about this, that one of
• 57:15
  the biggest parts of their job. Ian coaching on the track is
• 57:19
  recruiting, like, they're in the hallways hustling and they have
• 57:23
  nothing offer. They don't have a scholarship to
• 57:24
  offer, they have a Jersey to offer, that's what that's felt.
• 57:28
  Would think they really have to offer recruiting in those
• 57:30
  hallways, but they talked about how important Important is if
• 57:32
  you're going to have a big vibrant program, you better be
• 57:35
  in the hallways and that's sounds a lot like college
• 57:38
  coaching. If you're gonna have a big
• 57:39
  vibrant college program, you better be in those high school
• 57:43
  hallways, you better be on the high school tracks, recruiting
• 57:46
  high school kids to your program.
• 57:47
  So yeah. And I love how you said that,
• 57:50
  you know, convention is easy and curiosity as hard doing
• 57:54
  something different is hard. It shouldn't be that it's
• 57:57
  different though. I think it, I think there should
• 57:59
  be more of a normalization. Of that certainly not everybody
• 58:04
  that coaches, high school should coach College, by the way, I'm
• 58:06
  not sure every college coach should be coaching college and
• 58:09
  maybe they should be teaching High School.
• 58:10
  I mean, in just your own personality ways and things like
• 58:13
  that. So, and I think Mike, it's
• 58:15
  certainly true that, you know, some, some really like there is
• 58:20
  those people that are really, really well suited for the level
• 58:24
  that they're at, right? We're like, I know some friends
• 58:26
  in college coaching that. It's like, this is where you
• 58:28
  need to be right, like you really would.
• 58:30
  But in and then I think, Opposite is true as well.
• 58:33
  So, that's hard, right? Because, you know what?
• 58:36
  You brought in my one of my favorite topics, right ego.
• 58:38
  And, you know, ego is good. That's what, you know, drives us
• 58:41
  to be better and things like that.
• 58:42
  It's bad ego, and unhealthy, he go that's bad and unhealthy and
• 58:46
  sometimes, you know, it's ego bad ego gets in the way of our
• 58:49
  own self awareness of like, oh, like I want to be at the power 5
• 58:53
  level because that's who I think I am and in self-awareness is
• 58:56
  like oh man. But you know, I'd have a better
• 58:58
  life and be a better Coach and therefore a better person if I
• 59:01
  was on the D3. Or if I was at the high school
• 59:03
  level or ran my own Track Club Etc.
• 59:05
  But that's hard, right? It's hard at ego.
• 59:08
  Says, oh, I that that name and logo on my chest is who I am
• 59:12
  when I reality. It's like no, no, your mat,
• 59:14
  you're my cure, Joe, your Cindy, your Lisa, that's who you are.
• 59:18
  First and foremost, over the color of your shirt and logo
• 59:21
  that deals with it. But yeah, that bad ego can get
• 59:23
  in the way they're of self-awareness and it's really
• 59:26
  special when you find that alignment, right?
• 59:30
  So you find your passion of coaching, and And you find the
• 59:33
  alignment of the right level and location.
• 59:35
  And, you know how it fits family and how it fits in your priority
• 59:38
  scale, really magical things happen that may be.
• 59:43
  What's his name? The Newbery new Point?
• 59:47
  Yeah, it's going to be interesting that if he succeeds
• 59:51
  or fails, you do you define whether he succeeds or fails?
• 59:54
  If it's a misalignment of like, oh yeah, no, no, you are.
• 59:57
  And this is not, this is not a hierarchy.
• 59:59
  Oh, you are an amazing High School distance coach.
• 1:00:02
  Like Brosnan that's where you like shine.
• 1:00:04
  And you really impact kids lives and they go on to amazing
• 1:00:07
  schools because of the Improvement.
• 1:00:09
  You work for them. Colleges didn't work out because
• 1:00:12
  of the infrastructure of college and you have to set budgets and
• 1:00:15
  things like that. They maybe you didn't have to do
• 1:00:17
  in high school level does not make him a higher or lower
• 1:00:21
  coach. It just makes alignment hard to
• 1:00:25
  perfectly, 100% lineup, I think. Yeah, I think context is, like,
• 1:00:29
  is a lot and, like, especially with your perception of that,
• 1:00:34
  those sort of levels. Like, I was, I was fortunate
• 1:00:39
  enough to grow up in Illinois, right?
• 1:00:42
  And, and when I left Illinois, I thought like that over blow this
• 1:00:46
  sort of like Detweiler stuff and then I went back and I was like,
• 1:00:49
  nope, like this is so it's really legit and so, When you
• 1:00:53
  have some of the best high school, some of the best coaches
• 1:00:55
  in the country coaching at the high school, level in the state
• 1:00:57
  that you're that you're running in and competing against it's
• 1:01:01
  sort of like it really really takes the and it also division
• 1:01:06
  right like I could go you know 60 60 miles west of where I grew
• 1:01:11
  up was Paul Olson, 60 miles east of where I grew up was our
• 1:01:14
  Karis, right? And so that breaks down the
• 1:01:16
  like, oh, division, want to be, it's like, oh, like coach,
• 1:01:19
  right? Like you're one of the best
• 1:01:21
  doing it. And so, so I think that some
• 1:01:25
  people that context is shaped them to think that, oh, this is
• 1:01:28
  where I need to be, or, you know, and I think that I was
• 1:01:31
  really fortunate to have amazing coaches at around the area.
• 1:01:35
  And also that has coached me to sort of break that perception
• 1:01:38
  for me and I think legally when you're talking about Illinois
• 1:01:41
  and distance and cross-country coaching, and people, you have
• 1:01:44
  to say, Joe Newton. I think we just have to give
• 1:01:47
  props when you talk about great people in the state of Illinois.
• 1:01:49
  Pretty sure. I get dinged by someone.
• 1:01:52
  If I don't. In the great Joe Newton as well,
• 1:01:54
  your you checked off out carriers, that was one as well
• 1:01:57
  that you just have to. You're not allowed to speak on
• 1:01:59
  Illinois distance without those two gentlemen.
• 1:02:01
  And there's many, many more as you alluded to.
• 1:02:04
  So, how long at Greensboro was it?
• 1:02:06
  All it thought it was going to be moving from, you know,
• 1:02:09
  obviously a successful fun, high school program to the Collegiate
• 1:02:13
  program that it did. It just stop was a great.
• 1:02:15
  Was it Goldman pewter? What was it?
• 1:02:19
  It was awesome because the people that like it was It was
• 1:02:23
  amazing. I think that so that the head
• 1:02:27
  coach was still there at the time, was former table structure
• 1:02:31
  at UAB and was incredibly good like incredibly organized.
• 1:02:35
  Really, really good with with the day-to-day taught me a lot
• 1:02:37
  about that out of things which was important in.
• 1:02:40
  Then the team had some controversy like a couple years
• 1:02:43
  before I got there right there was some I think some unfairness
• 1:02:48
  for the stigma surrounding the team and that was just I found
• 1:02:50
  that to be just not the case. Like there was Raising a nice
• 1:02:53
  people, they're amazing athletes and love each other, and we're
• 1:02:56
  all sort of invested in each other's success and I really
• 1:02:59
  liked it. Now what the reason it was.
• 1:03:01
  So short there is, we talked about this a little bit before
• 1:03:08
  it was flexible enough where I did not want to leave the
• 1:03:11
  church. I did not only Ministry full
• 1:03:13
  time, so I was sort of essentially work two full time
• 1:03:15
  jobs, right? And it was a lot, a lot, a lot.
• 1:03:18
  Sure. And, and I Still like the head
• 1:03:23
  coach like after she was named the interim tag was, I had a lot
• 1:03:29
  of sort of thinking to do whether I was going to stay or
• 1:03:33
  not and I and it wasn't my job to have.
• 1:03:34
  I would have had to be apply for it and things to do.
• 1:03:37
  So I don't want to make the perception that like it was sort
• 1:03:39
  of my dad to have but I was encouraged to and and and, and I
• 1:03:46
  At that point, I knew that this is what I want to do sort of
• 1:03:49
  full time and it would've been really put it this way.
• 1:03:53
  It has been really really difficult to make that work with
• 1:03:56
  sort of my situation in life and that really stunk because I love
• 1:04:01
  those people, like I love being able to it was it was awesome
• 1:04:05
  but but I kind of needed that supplemental thing for with the
• 1:04:11
  church to be able to work. And I knew that it wouldn't
• 1:04:13
  really be fair to the program if I wasn't able to give Give
• 1:04:16
  everything that I had to it, and I just had to see present
• 1:04:19
  situation of Michael we could have made that happen, you know?
• 1:04:22
  So, luckily enough I found a situation that was, that was
• 1:04:27
  able to make that happen, which was at Baruch College formerly
• 1:04:29
  Atlanta, Christian College, working with the head coach
• 1:04:33
  there, Tim Foster. So I was coaching a distance
• 1:04:35
  Runners. He was coaching the sprinters
• 1:04:37
  and we had a couple of volunteers who are awesome
• 1:04:39
  people to so yeah in but but at the same time that was I was
• 1:04:44
  kind of I was going down. To Wilson North Carolina two
• 1:04:49
  times. Sometimes three times a week,
• 1:04:51
  which was an hour and 50 minutes from my house.
• 1:04:54
  And but the flexibility that allowed me to continue to work
• 1:04:58
  at the church, made it work for my family a little bit better
• 1:05:02
  and and yeah had an awesome experience there to like it's
• 1:05:07
  it's track and field without you don't you know you don't run
• 1:05:10
  into a lot of jerks are sports amazing, right?
• 1:05:12
  And so I've been very, very fortunate to All the stops I've
• 1:05:16
  kind of had. It's been surrounded by a ton of
• 1:05:19
  people and really great people. What are you doing?
• 1:05:21
  So, you know, you're in the ecosystem now, right?
• 1:05:25
  Unc-greensboro, Barton College, what are you doing coaching?
• 1:05:29
  Education wise. So, you know, typically when we
• 1:05:32
  first get into coaching, we fall back to how we were coached,
• 1:05:36
  whether that's the quote unquote, correct, or incorrect
• 1:05:38
  way to actually coach, this is what we know.
• 1:05:41
  Right. So you had, you know, great High
• 1:05:43
  School experiences with Coach the Or you had different
• 1:05:47
  experiences with the Paul and Olivet Nazarene was some great
• 1:05:49
  people there. You mentioned, you know, Mike
• 1:05:50
  McDowell. And of course, Colorado.
• 1:05:52
  There's now who is married to? I'm going to call her, my former
• 1:05:56
  athletes, use a distance Runner, but when I was at Ball, State,
• 1:06:00
  Nicole Hartford, and it's so awesome to see, like, oh man,
• 1:06:02
  what am I athletes? Now, married one of my coaches.
• 1:06:04
  That's so cool. After they graduated and all
• 1:06:07
  that kind of stuff. So, what are you doing to
• 1:06:12
  actually, like, okay, I'm going, I'm a coach.
• 1:06:15
  I wanted my kids to be good and improve.
• 1:06:17
  I asked them to do extra things. What am I doing to actually
• 1:06:19
  improve? How I coach, what are you doing,
• 1:06:21
  coaching? Education wise.
• 1:06:23
  Yeah, so taking every opportunity, I get to get
• 1:06:27
  certified in all the different event areas but also so this is
• 1:06:30
  something that I learn to from from my high school coach is the
• 1:06:36
  ecosystem is so amazing and you can just call people.
• 1:06:39
  Hmm, right. Like and and I'm probably having
• 1:06:44
  voids people by trying to under call Lacey, trying to get 15
• 1:06:48
  minutes with them and and usually I'm I can be a little I
• 1:06:55
  I've said before like hey like this seems like kind of
• 1:06:57
  something tell everybody like I want to know the thing that
• 1:06:59
  you're not telling anybody like I want to know your best ideas
• 1:07:04
  and in the awesome thing is like Coaches and our sport will spend
• 1:07:08
  the time with you and mentoring is such a vital part of what it
• 1:07:13
  means to be part of me was them. And so I haven't had like that
• 1:07:16
  one person that's like, oh, this is kind of the person that I go
• 1:07:19
  to for everything. But there are several different
• 1:07:21
  people that I'll, you know, pick up my phone and call and I like
• 1:07:24
  to do it in a way that's a little.
• 1:07:27
  Like, I don't want to be cynical about it.
• 1:07:28
  Like, I know there's some people out there like, oh, keep in
• 1:07:30
  contact, because that person could give you an internet chat.
• 1:07:33
  Like, I'm not about that. Like, I'm really curious like I
• 1:07:36
  generally No and in something that's probably not good to say
• 1:07:41
  because this is being recorded. It's like I have my God, no good
• 1:07:44
  ideas but I have no good ideas. I think what I'm pretty good at
• 1:07:49
  is, curating other people's, you know?
• 1:07:52
  And so I, I've we really, really tried to be active in call every
• 1:07:59
  right. Call this person.
• 1:08:00
  Oh, somebody's doing it better than us.
• 1:08:02
  Not have any going to be prideful about.
• 1:08:03
  Let's call him and find out how they're doing it.
• 1:08:05
  And why it's so, So yeah that's that's I don't know.
• 1:08:11
  That's just something that I'm ready to just pick up the phone
• 1:08:16
  and give somebody a call. What's been the like most
• 1:08:19
  mind-blowing piece of advice you been given in.
• 1:08:23
  You can decide whether to or not to share the person's name but
• 1:08:27
  what was you know, you seem to talk to a lot of people.
• 1:08:29
  I love your question of hey that's great.
• 1:08:31
  Let's because what you're doing is you're going to peel an onion
• 1:08:33
  like it but because it's good. Yeah.
• 1:08:34
  Okay, that's good. What have you never told anybody
• 1:08:36
  what do Not tell people, you only tell people who, you know,
• 1:08:39
  you know, are going to carry out this type of advice this
• 1:08:42
  mentorship here. What's like been the most
• 1:08:44
  mind-blowing like oh my goodness.
• 1:08:45
  I never thought of it this way. Yeah, I think and I know this is
• 1:08:52
  going to I don't want this to be super cliche but it was really,
• 1:08:55
  really helpful for me early on here where I'm at right now is
• 1:08:59
  that like doubt is a feature not a bug, you know, like your
• 1:09:07
  everyday to think, like, Oh, this is not work like oh this, I
• 1:09:12
  should be doing something else you're putting and that's just
• 1:09:14
  what it means to be too. Want to be a better Coach, is
• 1:09:18
  that it comes from a real passion to to get better until
• 1:09:23
  win? Is that like like I mentioned to
• 1:09:27
  you before that I listened to your podcast with put structure
• 1:09:30
  and it's like that guys in my conference I got a I got a
• 1:09:33
  coaching, it's that guy, right? Like it's in so so that whole
• 1:09:36
  like I've got to be doing it better and maybe I'm not For
• 1:09:40
  this or maybe I can't do this. That's part of it.
• 1:09:43
  Like that's all in there and it's not you should run for
• 1:09:47
  that. It's like, fine sort of ways to
• 1:09:50
  deal with that, right? It's so that self-doubt, I think
• 1:09:53
  that as a coach and certainly, I think as an athlete, everyone
• 1:09:55
  experiences is a feature of this, it's not a bug.
• 1:10:00
  This is something that everybody goes through even the best
• 1:10:02
  coaches in the world. And so, so that was that was
• 1:10:05
  really, really helpful to sort of general information.
• 1:10:09
  The other It's sort of more like a technical sort of X, you know,
• 1:10:12
  stuff that I know that I'll spare spare with the listeners
• 1:10:15
  in the in you for that stuff. All you podcast host that do the
• 1:10:20
  X's and O's podcast. JT Ryan, all you, get ahold of
• 1:10:24
  them, he'll spill his beans but you know, we ain't talking about
• 1:10:27
  it on here. So Barton, seems a little.
• 1:10:32
  I don't know if untenable is the right word because I don't want
• 1:10:35
  to be a negative connotation but an hour and 50 each way those
• 1:10:39
  things don't Typically lasts a long time for obvious, maybe
• 1:10:43
  obvious reasons, but maybe an obvious reasons.
• 1:10:46
  How long did that last? And where did we go to next?
• 1:10:50
  Yeah, I'm glad you said that. I think, like, I'm really gave
• 1:10:53
  it, give it my all to the places I've been, I will say just to be
• 1:10:57
  totally honest is like, some of those decisions were to stay in
• 1:11:01
  the ecosystem until I could find a kind of tenable, sure
• 1:11:05
  situation, and so, so yeah. We had some Access there and
• 1:11:11
  Coach some, to lovely folks and really loved my time with
• 1:11:14
  working with Coach Foster. And but I, when I was originally
• 1:11:22
  thinking about going to Barton I applied for, for the job here at
• 1:11:25
  a verdict and they had two searches it, had some and things
• 1:11:30
  just didn't work out for whatever reason.
• 1:11:32
  Sometimes, it was didn't work out in the end, favorite
• 1:11:35
  sometimes the candidate workout. And so the initial time back
• 1:11:39
  when I was Was at UNCG and I knew that that wasn't going to
• 1:11:42
  work. I had applied and so they reach
• 1:11:45
  Back Bay and hey are you still interested in doing this?
• 1:11:50
  And I almost like, I knew kind of a challenge, right?
• 1:11:53
  I knew what it was and I was a little intimidated by it and
• 1:11:59
  also there's real fear of failure which is awesome.
• 1:12:02
  Looks like pretty kind of excites me, but so so yeah I was
• 1:12:05
  at art for for the indoor and outdoor season and then favorite
• 1:12:09
  call. And in that's when I ended up
• 1:12:13
  sort of Taken taken the job and light bag of this past of this
• 1:12:18
  this job. Yeah, this is here.
• 1:12:20
  Yeah, right. Right, right.
• 1:12:21
  So, tell us about Avery. This is, you know, we've heard
• 1:12:24
  of UNCG, I've heard of Martin Hebert, maybe he's at has
• 1:12:27
  escaped me in the past as far as a program, right?
• 1:12:31
  So just launching the indoor and outdoor track and field program.
• 1:12:34
  What excited me about the position like, was the again,
• 1:12:38
  that Curiosity piece right there, That that bit about like
• 1:12:41
  oh, this is going to be a little chaotic.
• 1:12:43
  Like this is going to be really, really difficult to kind of get
• 1:12:46
  this thing up and going and, and that excited me about the
• 1:12:50
  position. I also have a really, really
• 1:12:52
  supportive and credible Administration staff that like,
• 1:12:56
  when I was applying. My guy is a lot of really hard
• 1:12:57
  questions like are we, you know, are we serious about this?
• 1:13:00
  Do you want to be successful and and her like some scary things
• 1:13:04
  but in a good way, right? Like oh yeah if you don't if you
• 1:13:06
  don't win here, like your job is you know?
• 1:13:08
  Like and that's that's what you that means that.
• 1:13:10
  Going to really put some, you know, put some resources and
• 1:13:13
  some attention into the program and I've not been and that's,
• 1:13:16
  that's all been true. Like, and there's real
• 1:13:19
  commitment to building this thing.
• 1:13:21
  The right way and grow the program and helping the funeral
• 1:13:25
  go to staff as well. So we just also moved into the
• 1:13:29
  ODOT conference which is kind of a historic division three
• 1:13:31
  conference from the Big South, which is not another really
• 1:13:34
  really, you know, high level division, three conference and
• 1:13:38
  and, and yeah. So So doing a ton of hustling,
• 1:13:42
  it's certainly a new experience and you know know what you don't
• 1:13:45
  know, which is why that impulse to just pick up the phone and
• 1:13:48
  call as many people as you know and ask them.
• 1:13:51
  You know, any question that you have is is a good one here
• 1:13:53
  because we are kind of will start listening.
• 1:13:57
  You know, it's exciting. It's also, you know, a lot so
• 1:14:01
  yeah. Yeah, I think about a term
• 1:14:06
  called like Blissful ignorance, because this is kind of what I'm
• 1:14:13
  hearing the third time that you're kind of traditionally
• 1:14:17
  woefully unprepared for the job, but getting it done.
• 1:14:22
  Now, remains to be seen at a bird.
• 1:14:23
  But, you know, when you first got into coaching, you became a
• 1:14:27
  head coach, really quick on the high school level.
• 1:14:30
  There's no way. Normally one of my Questions to
• 1:14:33
  ask when someone becomes a coach head coach for the first time,
• 1:14:35
  his where you're ready. And it's always the honest ones
• 1:14:39
  are always like, no, no, I didn't know.
• 1:14:41
  I had to do X Y and Z, right? But you were just like I would
• 1:14:44
  be the head coach and the former head coach is dad is going to be
• 1:14:46
  my assistant. I don't know that, I'm not
• 1:14:48
  supposed to do this. Let's go.
• 1:14:49
  Let's do it right first very soon after you know after having
• 1:14:53
  run that program very successfully you go on to
• 1:14:55
  college coaching and it's like right now.
• 1:14:57
  I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I'm not, I don't know that
• 1:14:59
  I'm not supposed to do this. Let's go, let's figure it out.
• 1:15:02
  You know, and have success there and at the next stop and now you
• 1:15:07
  know, to start a new program that takes a different skill set
• 1:15:11
  than going into a program and keeping the success going or go
• 1:15:15
  into a program and rejuvenate it because maybe it's, you know,
• 1:15:19
  has fallen some down times. This is brand-new.
• 1:15:22
  There is no book for this. Like I don't think that the u.s.
• 1:15:26
  tfcc a convention. We're going to have someone
• 1:15:28
  speaking on how to start a new program.
• 1:15:29
  Maybe we should Sam. I'm not sure if you listen, he's
• 1:15:33
  gonna be on the podcast here, next month, by the way.
• 1:15:35
  So maybe I'll make sure I asked them about this, but maybe that
• 1:15:39
  should be a topic of discussion of a presentation.
• 1:15:44
  So now you're starting this program.
• 1:15:46
  You've never done this. How do you mean?
• 1:15:49
  I love that? You're kind of like a couch.
• 1:15:50
  Go figure it out and get it done, you know, that's good.
• 1:15:53
  You know. It's sometimes when we think we
• 1:15:55
  know how hard something is we know we're not prepared for it,
• 1:15:57
  we don't even try and so we don't even learn from it and and
• 1:16:01
  have success or not have success from it.
• 1:16:03
  So how are you tackling this brand new program, never had
• 1:16:07
  indoor and outdoor track and field.
• 1:16:09
  How are what's kind of like, what were your your you seem to
• 1:16:13
  be very you know obviously curiosity is a big part but
• 1:16:16
  preparation seems to be a part like, okay, I'm gonna learn it
• 1:16:19
  on the job but be prepared, as have goals and things like that.
• 1:16:23
  What we're kind of the. The top three things are are not
• 1:16:26
  were our kind of the top three things, you know, that you want
• 1:16:29
  to accomplish to help get Program going and going in the
• 1:16:33
  right foot, right foot, right direction?
• 1:16:36
  Yeah, for sure. I think.
• 1:16:39
  The number one thing is at the division, three level.
• 1:16:41
  We don't have to. I mean, I'm not saying other
• 1:16:44
  people do this. I'm just saying, like we really
• 1:16:46
  don't have to compromise on fit at all like the student athletes
• 1:16:49
  who want to come and run here and compete, here want to do
• 1:16:51
  that. If that's what they want to do.
• 1:16:53
  There's not, you know there's not that sort of grant money
• 1:16:58
  that we can give to student athlete to sort of took them
• 1:17:00
  over the top, right? They really have to believe in
• 1:17:02
  what we're doing. So that's the thing, right?
• 1:17:05
  Recruit qualified student athletes.
• 1:17:09
  And, and Pitch it to them as like, they get to be a part of
• 1:17:11
  this, right? Exactly.
• 1:17:12
  Like what you said, right? Like, you know, this doesn't
• 1:17:15
  happen all the time and so, it's sort of like you get to plant
• 1:17:19
  Vineyards that you may not enjoy the shade from, but, but that's,
• 1:17:24
  that's the one thing. Right?
• 1:17:25
  So like as we're building it's almost like when you accelerate
• 1:17:29
  in the 400-meter right, like accelerate the right way, so
• 1:17:33
  that you have enough to make it right to the finish line and
• 1:17:36
  you're also not, you know, have a ton of catching up to do.
• 1:17:38
  Ooh, but surrounding us with really, really good.
• 1:17:41
  Really good people who are culture people.
• 1:17:44
  So that's the one thing. The second thing is like we want
• 1:17:48
  to we want to win and not be shy about that.
• 1:17:51
  And and the third thing is being incredibly organized because
• 1:17:56
  that's something that I really learned from coach roach at
• 1:17:58
  UNCG, is doing the things. You don't want to do on a
• 1:18:01
  Monday. Allow you to coach on Tuesday
• 1:18:04
  through Saturday Tuesday, through Sunday, rather and so I
• 1:18:10
  don't know. Somebody out there might think
• 1:18:11
  like expense reports are really great fun.
• 1:18:14
  I don't think that and as we're starting this program and sort
• 1:18:18
  of build the new track and field facility, like there's a ton of
• 1:18:21
  administrative duties that go on to that.
• 1:18:23
  And so, being incredibly organized really on is what I
• 1:18:27
  owe to the student athletes who have trusted me enough to come.
• 1:18:30
  Run, run for us here at Avery is so that I can pour into them.
• 1:18:34
  Those those three three and a half hours a day that I get to
• 1:18:36
  spend with them, right? And in I think that's the three
• 1:18:40
  things but it's also making our track and field team.
• 1:18:45
  Reflect the community is really really important to me.
• 1:18:50
  Right? White kids, run track, black
• 1:18:51
  kids, run track has been everybody wants track, poor
• 1:18:53
  kids, rich kids, big kids, small kids, everybody wants track.
• 1:18:57
  And so I think that cuz usually programs are combined at some
• 1:19:03
  way, right? And it's men's and women's
• 1:19:05
  indoor outdoor and cross-country that a track and field.
• 1:19:09
  Field team has a really unique opportunity to set the tone for
• 1:19:12
  the campus at the University especially at like, smaller
• 1:19:15
  liberal arts colleges, you know, and that's really cool.
• 1:19:19
  Like, that's a big responsibility, but it's also
• 1:19:22
  like, oh, like our success and our flourishing, really will
• 1:19:27
  have impacts on kind of main campus and how things go the
• 1:19:30
  student body. And, and so, that's, that's sort
• 1:19:33
  of what excites me. But you're right, like, Having
• 1:19:36
  credible people in my corner coaches, my family right like
• 1:19:43
  community members. Is the, it's the only way this
• 1:19:48
  works. Like it's the only way it works.
• 1:19:50
  And and so that's really, really unfairly relying on mentors and
• 1:19:56
  former coaches things and in a way where hopefully, I'll be
• 1:19:59
  able to run favor because they've been so invaluable, like
• 1:20:01
  they've been so incredibly valuable to even eat my First,
• 1:20:06
  three and a half months here, so it's one thing to call these
• 1:20:10
  coaches and be a pest as you kind of mention it about, you
• 1:20:13
  know, training and things like that.
• 1:20:15
  Has there been anybody, you know?
• 1:20:17
  Again it's a small sampling of coaches who have started a
• 1:20:21
  program from scratch like we're doing here at Averett.
• 1:20:25
  Is there anybody is? There been anybody?
• 1:20:27
  You can kind of lean on ask questions?
• 1:20:29
  Hey, I'm stuck here. I didn't expect this issue.
• 1:20:33
  How did you operate through anybody like that?
• 1:20:35
  I'm sort of, but like a piece, it's, you know, and not exactly
• 1:20:40
  not in the same situation, but I was on I mentioned to see if I
• 1:20:48
  said that I was I had the fortunate, The Good Fortune to
• 1:20:51
  be on the same call, with Coach was informally at Minnesota who
• 1:20:54
  started at the, you know, I think I think this morning
• 1:20:59
  started was an NAIA school. Now it's NCAA Division.
• 1:21:01
  I division three school and had a ton of success before he went
• 1:21:04
  to University Minnesota and not the same but certainly similar
• 1:21:08
  circumstances and I asked him sort of like, hey what what
• 1:21:13
  should I be doing in the first thing?
• 1:21:14
  He said to me was drinking As a joke as a joke.
• 1:21:18
  Right? Joking.
• 1:21:19
  Just to be clear and and and he is getting some some really
• 1:21:24
  really good advice and and really help me not be so anxious
• 1:21:29
  about process right in knowing that like a lot of those
• 1:21:34
  pressures that you feel early on.
• 1:21:35
  If you're a competitive person are from you, those are good but
• 1:21:39
  you're not going to be good, right?
• 1:21:40
  Like it's going to take a little bit of time and so and if you
• 1:21:44
  were anxious, your athletes would feel that.
• 1:21:45
  Xiety, it'll carry that to your Administration and everything.
• 1:21:48
  So, Taking it. How about cops?
• 1:21:53
  Yeah, it's like taking it, you know, sometimes week by week,
• 1:21:56
  sometimes, day by day, sometimes hour by hour has been really a
• 1:22:01
  lifesaver. Right?
• 1:22:02
  But just you know thinking about, right?
• 1:22:05
  The oh, that conference meeting outdoor track conference meet
• 1:22:07
  late April, when you don't have uniforms it for your program,
• 1:22:10
  it's like you know like you know you gotta you just have a good
• 1:22:17
  day today, complete the things that you want to do today and
• 1:22:19
  then go to sleep and then wake up tomorrow.
• 1:22:21
  Do that again and do that over. It's very, very, very much like
• 1:22:24
  being I think a successful track and field athlete, you know, not
• 1:22:27
  not a ton of tens in. Once a lot of sevens, have have
• 1:22:32
  seven days. If you can do that consistently
• 1:22:35
  you'll be in good shape tackling the right issues but tackling
• 1:22:38
  them in the right order as well. Like you said, I can't worry
• 1:22:41
  about outdoor conference right now.
• 1:22:43
  I haven't got my uniforms like they'll get that first in the
• 1:22:45
  next step. Well are you guys bringing all
• 1:22:49
  the events on campus? This from the get-go or you
• 1:22:52
  staging it. Meaning, you know, sometimes a
• 1:22:54
  new program will say, hey, we're going to pause on pole vault,
• 1:22:57
  and, or Hammer two of. You know, I'm the equipment guy
• 1:23:00
  here and I can tell you, that's two of the more expensive
• 1:23:02
  events, there are out there for different reasons, but still the
• 1:23:06
  dollars at up there, or are you trying to assimilate, you know,
• 1:23:09
  the whole 2122 events where we have from the get-go?
• 1:23:14
  Yeah, we're going all in her legal, right?
• 1:23:17
  We're I think, I think part of it is because the the uniqueness
• 1:23:23
  of the events that you mentioned will attract quality athletes to
• 1:23:27
  division three level who are just incredibly incredibly
• 1:23:30
  passionate about that. Like, here's another way to say
• 1:23:32
  that there are just more cross-country athletes in our
• 1:23:35
  pole. Vaulters never Growers.
• 1:23:36
  And so if there are people who want to come through the
• 1:23:40
  hamburger, super passionate about developing that that You
• 1:23:44
  know, that that it's a good fit for the University as well.
• 1:23:48
  We want to be able to have that as a resource to attract some of
• 1:23:51
  those quality student athletes and so, yeah, we're we're all
• 1:23:57
  in, right? Like we really got the
• 1:23:58
  facilities for it and what we will have in January first and
• 1:24:03
  so we want to, we want to be going to be versatile as a
• 1:24:08
  program. We don't want to be distance,
• 1:24:09
  only or we want to think about it in terms of, you know, a
• 1:24:13
  whole list. Approach filling the events but
• 1:24:16
  we're not in a rush to to like, you know, we're not we're not
• 1:24:20
  going to have athletes who run the 5K back.
• 1:24:23
  Hey, are you interested in doing it?
• 1:24:24
  Like that's not worry about either, you know what I mean?
• 1:24:26
  Hey like let's try to get 11, you know, 11 feet The Whole
• 1:24:29
  Bowl. Like it's like now we're not
• 1:24:31
  we're trying to get specialist right?
• 1:24:33
  And those areas attracted to the university, so that answers your
• 1:24:36
  question. So you again, there is no
• 1:24:39
  Playbook to do this, you know, almost you.
• 1:24:42
  So we don't have the set convention.
• 1:24:44
  Things like that. What has been the biggest
• 1:24:47
  knowing that you're on the job. I'm going to call it maybe your
• 1:24:50
  100th day like you have not been on the job all that long and
• 1:24:52
  we're recording this, what has been like the most out of left
• 1:24:57
  field. I did not see this coming.
• 1:24:59
  I don't want to call it a struggle but miss something
• 1:25:01
  you've had to overcome or you just didn't know.
• 1:25:03
  Oh man, I didn't realize I was going to have to do XY and z and
• 1:25:07
  I did it, but I did not see that one coming.
• 1:25:14
  Yeah, I think, I think, from what I've heard from some some
• 1:25:19
  very valuable sources is that usually, when you sort of build
• 1:25:23
  a facility, the above ground equipment, that kind of thing
• 1:25:26
  happens, like, at a similar time, is that other stuff
• 1:25:29
  happens. And, and so those things were,
• 1:25:32
  certainly get one thing done worried about the other thing
• 1:25:35
  and in. So a lot of a lot of those
• 1:25:39
  things and also it's a really helpful.
• 1:25:42
  It's a really helpful. Under that truck until people
• 1:25:47
  are specific like it's a specific kind of language.
• 1:25:49
  Right? And so there's some things that
• 1:25:53
  we take for, granted that people who are, you know,
• 1:25:57
  administrators folks who are supporters the program may not
• 1:26:01
  be right, like, okay. So here's an example of that,
• 1:26:03
  right? Like, we are You know, it was an
• 1:26:09
  example about fishing equipment, right?
• 1:26:12
  With the high school program that we're going to be sharing
• 1:26:15
  our facility with it's like, oh, do we need to new pole vault?
• 1:26:19
  It's so that we after practice every like this seems like we're
• 1:26:23
  track. We know like this is very silly.
• 1:26:25
  Right? But oh no, we are going to take
• 1:26:26
  the one and put it in the shed every day.
• 1:26:28
  We're gonna bring out the other. It's like that's like an honest
• 1:26:31
  general question in fit in as much as you know, Gil might like
• 1:26:34
  us to purchase to pull bolt fits.
• 1:26:36
  We Probably you know obviously took.
• 1:26:39
  So that's something that I just don't think is even like I just
• 1:26:42
  take that toy for granted. But when you're explaining these
• 1:26:44
  two folks who are helping purchase these things and fun,
• 1:26:47
  these sort of projects that's not their area at all.
• 1:26:52
  And so it's really like remembering what it was like
• 1:26:55
  when you were learning the sport for the first time and taking
• 1:26:57
  people through that. So I think that's kind of the
• 1:26:59
  general sort of left field stuff where it's you know some you
• 1:27:05
  just don't know what you don't know.
• 1:27:06
  And And and ask is for me to write like so.
• 1:27:11
  But that's, that's always, always a good reminder.
• 1:27:15
  But that's, that's super interesting.
• 1:27:17
  Because, yeah, you just generalized all track coaches,
• 1:27:21
  but then you actually get to the real meat of a to because you're
• 1:27:23
  like, well, me too, I don't know everything, right?
• 1:27:26
  That's something that, you know, we learn here is as sales
• 1:27:30
  professionals inside of our organization of, you know, we
• 1:27:33
  have our own little industry jargon terms because we're
• 1:27:35
  actually Manufacturing. We, we know the probably product
• 1:27:40
  may be better than anybody else out there as compared to a coach
• 1:27:43
  because like, I see it getting made.
• 1:27:45
  Like I know what goes into it? All these kind of things.
• 1:27:47
  I had no clue before I got here. I got, I'm so dumb.
• 1:27:50
  I thought polvo poles my oh, they must buy like a 16 foot
• 1:27:52
  pole and chop it in half. There's two eight Footers or
• 1:27:54
  something, right? No idea how it works, not quite
• 1:28:00
  amazing. Yeah, if you go on YouTube and
• 1:28:03
  search, How It's Made pole, vault, they did a video that
• 1:28:06
  they came here. And 08 for the Olympic year and
• 1:28:08
  actually filmed the entire process.
• 1:28:10
  It's fascinating for the nonpolar.
• 1:28:12
  I was inaudible vaulter. I still thought it was
• 1:28:14
  fascinating. I still love watching those
• 1:28:15
  guys, but we have to like, when we hire young professionals
• 1:28:21
  here, who are typically, former a former track athletes or
• 1:28:23
  former coaches. They come here, thinking, oh,
• 1:28:26
  everybody knows Flex numbers for pole vault or everybody knows
• 1:28:30
  the differences in pole vault pits or whatever, you know, the
• 1:28:33
  rim weights and discus, and it's like nobody first of all, Not
• 1:28:37
  everybody is full time coach. And what I mean by that is like,
• 1:28:41
  they're not geek and 24/7. Like, you know, guys like me and
• 1:28:43
  you are necessarily some people. Like, yeah, I coach.
• 1:28:46
  But you know what? I'm a teacher and my dad.
• 1:28:47
  I'm a mom. I'm a son, I'm a brother.
• 1:28:50
  Maybe I'm, I'm a minister, you know, like I have a lot of other
• 1:28:53
  stuff. Sorry, I don't know, every
• 1:28:55
  little specific. So I love that.
• 1:28:57
  When you talking to administrators alumni Fund
• 1:29:01
  Raising efforts at you, you don't have to necessarily assume
• 1:29:06
  zero playing Field. But you almost have to ask,
• 1:29:09
  like, oh, so how much do you know about cross country teams?
• 1:29:13
  You know, I ran, you know, the two-mile wants.
• 1:29:15
  Oh, yeah, you know, we actually run the five-mile, you know, you
• 1:29:19
  got to get to that basis there. So I love that.
• 1:29:21
  One of the things you have to learn their speaking with new
• 1:29:24
  Administration, even new to you and new to the school of like,
• 1:29:26
  hey, here's why we need this. Yes, we can get away with the
• 1:29:30
  over here on this, but here's why we can't get get away with
• 1:29:33
  lower than this because of safety.
• 1:29:35
  Longevity, whatever. You know what we're going to do
• 1:29:37
  with our program. That's your so I love that.
• 1:29:39
  Look how you generalized everybody but then brought it to
• 1:29:41
  the real answer. Like yeah, we're all kind of
• 1:29:43
  individuals here and let's speak.
• 1:29:45
  Speak our languages together with that.
• 1:29:48
  Well, Matt, as we start to wrap up, you know, I've said this in
• 1:29:51
  the podcast, I learned this from our CEO.
• 1:29:53
  David Hodge who was a pole vaulter in college Baylor and
• 1:29:57
  all the stuff. He's this big-time athlete is
• 1:29:59
  you know healthy things grow, right?
• 1:30:01
  So like when new programs are coming online, new facilities,
• 1:30:05
  new coaches like, Like that's awesome because it means we're
• 1:30:08
  growing that something is healthy there.
• 1:30:10
  So we're growing. That's awesome.
• 1:30:11
  What's got you? You know you're staring in
• 1:30:14
  front. You have those ten tackles
• 1:30:15
  you've got to make and you've got to do them in order.
• 1:30:17
  What's got you excited about this upcoming year?
• 1:30:22
  I think that. You know, at Averett, they've
• 1:30:27
  had a cross-country program for a while and they don't have a
• 1:30:30
  super rich tradition in class. But seeing the athletes, the
• 1:30:35
  very few athletes who are already on campus that were
• 1:30:38
  interested in running Cross or who work across, right?
• 1:30:42
  The enthusiasm around sort of building the program and the,
• 1:30:46
  the total buy-in from the University to that is, has me
• 1:30:50
  like incredibly incredibly excited to see how excited they
• 1:30:53
  are, right? It's like they're like Finally,
• 1:30:55
  we're doing this. Like let's let's go and I think
• 1:30:59
  I think the other thing is I have a I talked about seven
• 1:31:06
  Thorpe and you know Evan son Simon.
• 1:31:08
  It's is running the Dixon program now and it's doing a
• 1:31:10
  really good job and he makes fun of me.
• 1:31:12
  He calls this my complex it's like so in a good way we're very
• 1:31:17
  close but like My my dad was a truck driver.
• 1:31:23
  My mom to dispatcher grown-up and chrome of incredibly
• 1:31:28
  hard-working middle-class family in the middle of Illinois.
• 1:31:34
  And and so what excites me is that there's a real possibility
• 1:31:43
  that this thing fails, right? Like and and it's going to take
• 1:31:49
  a ton of really, really productive.
• 1:31:51
  Nation and a lot of enthusiasm and like you said like, you
• 1:31:55
  know, sunlight and water to make the thing bro.
• 1:31:59
  And When you go to work every day, if you think about like the
• 1:32:04
  kind of stuff that's riding on this being successful, and puts
• 1:32:08
  a really good kind of pressure on you.
• 1:32:10
  And so that's and I'm a really competitive person.
• 1:32:15
  And so that's that's what's that's what's keeping me going,
• 1:32:18
  right? That's what's, that's what's
• 1:32:20
  keeping me in the office and checking off those tasks.
• 1:32:23
  So, yeah, it's It's a lot but it's all worth it.
• 1:32:30
  You know, I'm always amazed. That coaches who come to this
• 1:32:37
  show, give us the time of day and what I mean by that is,
• 1:32:40
  you're so so busy. It's it's quite amazing, the
• 1:32:44
  hardest part and you know, that uniting floor through this and
• 1:32:47
  our past, guest is the actual scheduling part.
• 1:32:49
  That's the hardest part of setting up these.
• 1:32:51
  These amazing interviews with coaches is actually figuring out
• 1:32:54
  your schedule with my schedule, Etc.
• 1:32:57
  And I'm really just thankful for you, my friend.
• 1:32:59
  So, you know, I'm going to call it a quote unquote, normal
• 1:33:02
  coach, so like when you're at UNCG, And Barton's like okay
• 1:33:07
  well there's things in place and you know you're busy and there's
• 1:33:10
  things in place your building those things today in place at
• 1:33:14
  favorite. So I'm just so thankful because
• 1:33:15
  I know how busy you are. I know how busy you are and I
• 1:33:18
  know how and I don't know how busy you are meaning like I know
• 1:33:21
  there's a thousand things, you get a thousand emails when you
• 1:33:24
  get off the call here you miss so many calls already.
• 1:33:27
  You know, the kids that are on campus trying to figure out
• 1:33:29
  where their dorm rooms are the next recruit for next year.
• 1:33:32
  The facility being built Eames. I mean, there's just so much.
• 1:33:37
  The list is very long and I'm just so so grateful that you
• 1:33:40
  would give us a really the most expensive thing you can give us.
• 1:33:42
  And that's your time today, man. I think you know, your story is
• 1:33:46
  important. I've used this analogy before
• 1:33:48
  and I'll continue to use an analogy.
• 1:33:49
  You know, if your journey in this great profession is a book.
• 1:33:53
  You might be, I'll say your chapter 2.
• 1:33:56
  I was going to give you chapter 1, but your chapter 2, but
• 1:33:59
  that's what's awesome about this is, you know, you're barely
• 1:34:03
  your, you know, they may be a call.
• 1:34:05
  Runners to the start line for your career, you're young,
• 1:34:07
  you're 30. You got 30 years to go minimum
• 1:34:12
  in this great profession. And so you have even started
• 1:34:14
  been in the, you know, turning the, bend here on the first
• 1:34:16
  curve or the 400 man. And that is exciting because
• 1:34:20
  you're writing your history. You're creating with what you're
• 1:34:23
  creating their at Averett, you're creating Legacy.
• 1:34:26
  These first athletes is our Legacy Builders.
• 1:34:28
  These administrators that made the right decision to add these
• 1:34:31
  Sports, their legacy Builders you leader.
• 1:34:35
  Being the leader of the program running the captain of the ship
• 1:34:37
  that's Legacy. Building my friend, and that is
• 1:34:40
  what it's going to be exciting to see.
• 1:34:42
  You know, when someone listens this podcast 10 years from now
• 1:34:45
  and Averett has won conference Champs and many all Americans
• 1:34:49
  and kids are in the workforce and their business owners and
• 1:34:53
  probably coaches and things like that they can look at me.
• 1:34:55
  Like yeah, go back. Listen, that guy his first year
• 1:34:57
  there and how he built this, that's what creates Legacy and
• 1:35:01
  that's the most exciting thing that I get from your journey in.
• 1:35:05
  A profession man is the Legacy that you build it at.
• 1:35:07
  Such a young age, man. This is great man.
• 1:35:09
  You doing awesome and my guy, I really appreciate you too.
• 1:35:12
  I think you know I read all the time about the burnout rate of
• 1:35:17
  track and field coach has and specifically young coaches.
• 1:35:19
  And I think within the podcast a few times that I have now been
• 1:35:24
  on a podcast to reminder like that.
• 1:35:26
  There's, there's a real camaraderie out here, right?
• 1:35:28
  You're not. We can, we can kind of if we're
• 1:35:32
  willing to be lead on occasionally we can lean on each
• 1:35:34
  other. We can mean on other people.
• 1:35:36
  And it's just a reminder of a like a really really special
• 1:35:39
  community that we have lucky to be a part of and track and field
• 1:35:42
  and and you're certainly one of the you speak with that
• 1:35:46
  Community all the time. So I appreciate the work that
• 1:35:49
  you do here and I had a blast just about fun.
• 1:35:51
  Awesome man, will your story matters, man, and I'm just so
• 1:35:54
  humbled to be able to share that with our listeners.
• 1:35:56
  That's a wrap folks, man. What a great story.
• 1:35:59
  I can't wait to see what gets built, their David, I mean, the
• 1:36:02
  the program, the people, and again, we're going to pee.
• 1:36:05
  Business. It's gonna be quite amazing.
• 1:36:07
  I can't wait, I'm gonna be doing this podcast 10 years from now.
• 1:36:09
  Not only do I want to do a follow-up with that.
• 1:36:12
  I'm going to be interviewing one of his athletes from this year's
• 1:36:15
  team at because they're going to become a coach.
• 1:36:16
  I just know it and I want to be like yeah you know what I
• 1:36:19
  interviewed your coach before you even had a program man and
• 1:36:22
  it's going to be awesome. And again, that's to me, that's
• 1:36:24
  how you define legacy. So thank you for being here
• 1:36:26
  today. Join us next week.
• 1:36:28
  We're gonna have another amazing coach here, will learn about
• 1:36:30
  their journey in this great profession, and we'll do it all
• 1:36:32
  over again. Thanks for being here.
• 1:36:33
  Have a good week. Thanks Mike what an incredible
• 1:36:44
  journey coach has been on so awesome to hear their story in
• 1:36:47
  their own words, tremendous proof of the positive effect
• 1:36:49
  coaches, make on a daily basis. Help us spread the word of this.
• 1:36:53
  Great journey by sharing on your favorite social, media channel.
• 1:36:56
  And don't forget to take a minute to rate and review the
• 1:36:58
  podcast. You just might get a shout out
• 1:37:00
  on a future episode. That's it for today.
• 1:37:02
  Join us next week, when we'll connect you with another amazing
• 1:37:06
  crunch.