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Female Firsts: Florence Cole Talbert · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: And Smantha and welcome to stuff.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: I've never told you a protection by Heart radio and
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: were welcome Eves. We are doing another edition of Female First,
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: which means we are joined by Eves. We're always excited
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: to be joined by the fabulous, fantastic Eves.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: How are you. How have you been?
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: Hey, I've been pretty good. Actually, I have gotten a
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: nice little break in. Like I am in Seattle and
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: the weather is gray and it's rainy, but it's like
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: good for me right now because I get to stay
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: inside and I get to write, and I get to read,
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: and I get to practice yoga basically every day, and
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: that's really calming and peaceful. And I think that a
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: lot of people can identify with me and say that
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: the world. It's kind of making me need a nervous
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: system reset right now.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, which is one of the reasons we contacted you
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: for our recent meditation episode.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: And I was ready to do it. It was so fantastic.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Well, also, Eves, we Samantha and I ventured out to
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: the office.
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: Oh man, that's rare in rare form, it is very rare,
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: and we your name came up and we were telling
• 1:33
  Speaker 5: everybody about how you have this.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Every time we talk to you, it's like amazing, nomadic where.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Is she now?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: What is she doing now? Lifestyle? So you might be
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: the talk of the office.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: Well that makes me feel good. Maybe that's why my
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: ears were burning the other day, like you know, in
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: the old superstition. I don't know if that's like a
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Southern superstition or a Black superstition. I don't know where
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: it comes from, but like if your ears are warm,
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: than somebody's talking about you somewhere. But the problem is,
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: like I don't I think it might be like one
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: ear is good talk and the other ear is bad talk.
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but either way, I kind of wonder, like, okay,
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: it is my ear birding, is somebody talking about me?
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: And if they are, is it good or is it bad?
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: So it was hope it was good.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's good. Yes, it was very good.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Riddle with some jealousy because we're like we want to
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm doing my best. I am trying to live
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: this life. So I'm fully tried to be that person.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: So I'm like in process of being that nomadic person.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: So I think I'm doing pretty good at it. So far,
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: but you know, I feel like I'm just ramping up.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, but it's always amazing. And Samitha and I
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: recently have been to Seattle and it was a wonderful experience.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: And you have been before, right, like this is not
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: your first time.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Well, actually, I went for like a day for work,
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: you know, when I was at iHeart actually, and then
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: I came back for a week a couple of years ago,
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: so I've been here, but I haven't proper spent time
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: in the city until now, just hanging out. It was
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: like I was camping the whole time last time for
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: the most part, and then the first time was like
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: a day or two for work, so it didn't really
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: that I feel like that doesn't really count fully.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: Well I'm very excited to check back in next time
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: and see what you've gotten up to, because we had
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: a good time. All right, So here's my next question.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: What's your experience with opera? Absolutely zero experience with opera.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: And I know we've talked about opera before on the show,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: but ever since then, I still have had zero experience
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: with opera in real life. So I've heard opera singers and.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Like online and in media, but that is the extent
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: of my experience with it.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, I think I'm sang with y'all.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I've heard it in media.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I've heard some opera singers.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: There are some songs that I like that have opera
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: singers in like the background. Unfortunately, a lot of my
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: experience with opera is through cartoons.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, the burning of the glassy kind of thing.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And so that is a better answer.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, okay, but I did go to the
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Sydney Opera House. I don't think I actually saw an
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: opera though. I think I just did like a tour.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: I feel like I would remember if I had seen
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: an opera.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like. Yeah.
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: For me, as much as I love musicals, opera's never
• 4:56
  Speaker 6: been my forte. And again, I'm like you like, very like,
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: and I don't search it out, which is unfortunate and
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: I probably should, but I do know it takes a
• 5:04
  Speaker 6: lot of talent in training.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Oh yes, that reminds me of another experience I've had
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: with opera. Okay, there's an event at a NERD convention
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: in Atlanta that is a Star Trek pageant, and they
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: have a talent portion and one time an opera singer
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: saying opera and klingon.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: So that is impressive. It was actually really good. That's impressive.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I say, actually, like it wouldn't be, but like she
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: really nailed it. It was great. Okay, all right, So
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: with that we've got our baseline. Who did you bring
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: for us to discuss today?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Eves?
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: So we are talking about opera because today we are
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: talking about Florence cole Talbert mccleve. So she has a
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: few first under her belt. She was the first black
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: student to attend the Los Angeles High School. She was
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: also the first black student to appear in one of
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: the Chicago Musical colleges programs, and she was the first
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: black director of music at Bishop College in Texas. In general,
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: she was just a pioneering person in opera. She paved
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: the way for other black opera singers who performed in
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: the United States and also in Europe, because Europe was
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: a place to go in order to get your name
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: up and study voice more in Europe. So plenty of
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: artists did that and Florence.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Was one of them. So she was she was well
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: known at her time.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: She was well regarded at her time, and she also
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: was a pioneer in the field.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and she has such a great story, so
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: should we get into her history.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: So she was born on June seventeenth, eighteen ninety in Detroit, Michigan.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: Her parents were Sadie Chandler Cole and Thomas A. Cole,
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: and they had their own very musical history. So this
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: was one of those situations, as we often hear with
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: people who get big in music, musical performance, that their
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: families were also very musical, and that was the case
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: for Florence. She started studying piano at a young age.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: So I saw one article that was in the Amsterdam News,
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: which was a black newspaper on in New York, not
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: from Amsterdam, it was from New York. It said that
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: she was six when she began to play piano. She
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: and her parents moved to Los Angeles when she was young.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: And the discrepancies among age and date here too, as
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: often happens when we're going back through these biographies, but
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: I've seen that it was when she was eight when
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: she moved to Los Angeles. But I've also seen an
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: interview with Florence herself said that she was ten now
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: caveat for that. Like y'all know in previous episodes, we've
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: talked about just because somebody said something themselves doesn't necessarily
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: mean and it's totally accurate, and indeed sometimes people were
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: purposefully giving misinformation.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I was actually.
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: Looking up information about another black opera singer at the time.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: I was actually doing this, and one of her family members,
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: who's still living today, was like, take everything she said
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: with a grain of salt, And I kind of felt
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: like it has to be like that with some of
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: these people's stories, because they will say things and it'll
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: be inaccurate in interviews, whether it was purposeful or unintentional,
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: but either way, it was true that she started early
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: and they moved to Los Angeles, and in an interview
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: she once said, quote, my mother was a talented mezzo
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: soprano and had traveled extensively with the Fisk Jubilee Singers.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: She had made quite a name for herself by the
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: time of my birth. My grandmother was a patron of music.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: So she said that her grandmother had this high soprano
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: voice and was a member of the first Color choir
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: in Cincinnati. So history goes back pretty far, and obviously
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: the family was intentional about passing along their interest in
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: development of knowledge and practice in music. Her father was
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: a quote excellent basso, and he was a good dramatic reader.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: By the time Florence was twelve years old, she was
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: accompanying her mother in recitals, and at first she was
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: considering becoming a pianist, but pretty soon her attention turned
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: to opera.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I will say.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: I also saw that her mother wanted her to be
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: a classical singer, and that she wouldn't let her hum
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: popular tunes. But Florence herself wanted to turn to opera
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: when a teacher took her to see the opera Aida.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: So this is another quote. This is from Florence. She said,
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: I was impressed by the opera as nothing had ever
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: moved me before. I sat breathlessly watching the artists, and
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: as the opera progressed a desire and impossible desire. So
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: it seemed at the time took possession of me. I
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: wanted to sing the title role in Naida. I could
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: see myself thrilling large audiences as I myself was being thrilled.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: So she already was envisioning herself in this grand role.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: And it was also one that she hadn't seen before.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: She hadn't seen like other black people in before because
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: they would have white people performed these roles even though
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: the character was not white. Her first voice teacher was
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: Gloria Maine. In Los Angeles. She went to Los Angeles
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: High School, and this is where that first comes in.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: So she was the first black student to go to
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: the school. And while she was at the school, she
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: joined the glee club and became a soloist even though
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: she was the only black person in her grade, which
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: included more than two hundred students. She was also the
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: first black person to take part in a high school
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: commencement program in Los Angeles. So once she graduated from
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: high school, she majored in music at the University of
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: Southern California. And she also, as one article put it,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: made a thorough study of modern languages. So I think
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: this is where you mentioned Klingon in the beginning and
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: was singing it Glingon, And I was thinking about this
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: part of Florence's history because I don't fully understand, and
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: I would need somebody who's a biographer of Florence to
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: under to explain how she developed her language skills because
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: As far as the parts of her biography that I've read,
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen exactly how she studied language. It said
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: that she studied ancient and modern languages when she was
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: in high school. But and then later on, as we'll
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: get to, she went to Europe, But it seems like
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: her language study started earlier. It started at this time
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: before she had even started studying voice in Europe.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So I'm not sure how that happened.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: If she was just really adept, if it was self study,
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: if she knew people who spoke these languages, I don't know.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: That's a part of her story that I would love
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: to learn more about, because obviously she's a singer and
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: she's she's you know, she uses her voice and she
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: uses language to do what she does. So she has
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: to have a certain proficiency in language and comfort with
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: it to be able to do so.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: So that is one thing I don't know.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: But after finishing her music course, she joined Hans Jubilee
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: Singers and that was promoted by the Midland Lyceum Bureau
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: and she started touring with them. And there is a
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: brochure for Hans Jubilee Singers and I can send it
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: to y'all, so that everybody listening can see it because
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: there is a picture of all the Jubilee singers on it.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: So it had also a few quotes from of course,
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: positive press because this was promotional material for it. Now
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: this is a big getting a promotional press. Throughout the
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: rest of this episode, I'm going to give more quotes
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: of promotional press when we do these episodes. I know
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: there are sometimes when I'll bring criticisms of the person
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: because they will have haters in the press, and you
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: know it, it's not unusual for there to be both
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: positive and negative press for these people. But in Florence's case, honestly,
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: I did see a lot of positive press, and I
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: don't believe that was just fully hagiography. I think it
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: was also like people really did enjoy her work and
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: she was pretty well regarded wherever she went. So here's
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: the quote, Madam Talbert, Soprana of Hans Singer's has a
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: voice that is clear and sweet and she reaches the
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: high notes without any noticeable effort. Mister Talbert, the pianist
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: understood each singer and showed great talent as an accompanist.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: And that's from the Portland Oregonian, So it was you
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: heard that name mister Talbert mentioned. It was around this
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: time that Florence married Wendell P.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Talbert.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: He was a pianist and Cellis and Hans Jubilee singers.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: But their marriage didn't last too long. They separated somewhere
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: around nineteen fifteen or sixteen. I've seen both years. But
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: she did keep his last name in her performance name.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: And in nineteen fifteen she was still with the Jubilee Singers,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: but she did start to do solo performances around nineteen
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: sixteen and she left and she moved to Chicago. She
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: enrolled in the vocal department of Chicago Musical College and
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: this is when she started singing in student programs. And
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: here another first comes in. So she was the first
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: black woman to appear in a student program at the school.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: And this is from a nineteen sixteen article in the
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: Chicago Defender says, this missus Talbert is a graduate of
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: the Conservatory of California and has made a reputation of
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: being an artist who sings with volume, sweetness, and clearness.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: This is her first year as a student, and it
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: was soon recognized that her training and technique is far
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: superior to anyone of the school, which is honestly kind
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: of shady because if I were reading this and now
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: we're one of her peers, I'm like, Okay, I get it,
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: she's great, but do you have to pay everybody else
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: down in the.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Process, Like, did need that?
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: Right? So she sang the bell song from Locke Me
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: by Leo Dalibe, and people just kept talking about how
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: her voice was so clear and sweet, and she gave
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: a great interpretation of the song and her expressions were great.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: So in June nineteen sixteen, she graduated from the Chicago
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: Musical College with honors. She was also the graduation voice celoist,
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: so clearly this school never missed an opportunity to put her.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: On a pedestal.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: They definitely showcased her in her talents, and she was
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: also another first here, the first black person to take
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: part in the college's commencement program through the vocal department.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: She sang Caro Nome from rio Letto in Italian and
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: that was a company by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, so
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: she's singing in an Italian here. And she got the diamond
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: medal for having the highest average in the graduating class.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I've seen that over and over, diamond.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: Medal, have no idea if the medal was actually if
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: there were any actual diamonds involved.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I think there was.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: That was just a name for her getting the highest
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: honors of the award that she got for that in
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: the school. But in August nineteen sixteen, she was the
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: cover story for the first issue of a magazine called
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: Half Century Magazine. And in the article in that magazine
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: that the cover story was on, she was described as
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: one of Chicago's favorite sopranos. And according to that article,
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: you know, it was kind of a flex. So the
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: newspapers weren't wrong to hold her up to this standard
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: because this article in Half Century Magazine said that most
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: students attended the college for four years, but Florence was
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: able to take an exam that let her start with
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: the graduating class, so she ended up finishing in one year.
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: So she toured from nineteen sixteen and on into the
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: nineteen twenty She toured throughout the United States, places like Chicago, Detroit,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: Los Angeles, all of that, and she sang all different
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: kinds of music, operatic music, music from contemporary composer, spirituals,
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: and she had her first her debut in New York
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: at Aolian Hall on April sixteenth, nineteen eighteen, and she
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: continued to get pressed, so in March of nineteen nineteen,
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: there was a special issue of Music Master magazine that
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: was published about her, and she recorded some of her songs.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: So in nineteen nineteen, George W. Broom asked her to
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: record for his Broom Special Phonograph label, which he established
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: to distribute the music of black concert artists, and they
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: recorded at least three tracks, although two were issued. One
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: of them was Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen in
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: an Arrangement by Clarence Cameron White and Villa Nelle by
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Dell Aqua, which was sung in French and Villa Nelle
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: was issued in September of nineteen nineteen. Not exactly clear
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: when Nobody Knows was issued, but both of them were
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: on sale in double face format by nineteen twenty one,
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: and apparently George Broom sold these records by mail from
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: his home in Boston.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: But Florence was big. She was getting gigs.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: She started her first tour in the South in September
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: of nineteen nineteen. She made other recordings as well, throughout
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: the nineteen twenties and in nineteen twenty five she went
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: to Europe. So as to why she went to Europe,
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, as I said earlier, opera is a very
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: well known media there.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Just like opera, opera done.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But of course I was like, okay, you know,
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: what was it about this moment that she decided to
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: go to Europe and how did.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: She get there? Who encouraged her and what I saw?
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: I saw one article that was in the New York
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: Age that said, quote the idea of European study and
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: operatic role. It said, quote that the idea of European
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: study and operatic role, it is said, was given to
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: Madame Talbert by an Italian baritone, Yosebio Conchaldi in Chicago,
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: after she had sung duets with him on several occasions
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: in that city. So on July eighteenth, nineteen twenty five,
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: she sailed on the Conte Rosso to join the summer
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: class for Americans at Villa Deeste. So she studied voice
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: in Europe. She gave recitals in Italy and in France,
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: and in March nineteen twenty seven, she made her debut
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: in the title role of Verde's Aida at the communal
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: I think it's pronounced theater in Cosenza, Italy.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: She got what she wanted.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: We talked about how she said, I want to be
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: in the title role, and.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: She got that.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: And I've seen that she has been credited as the
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: first Black American to sing as Aida, but I did
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: see noted in some of the sources about her that
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: like other black performers did perform in that role before her.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: As we know, she has plenty of first and it's
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: not like you have to be a first, had to
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: have to even have a first to be notable.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: But what she did, she.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: Obviously accomplished one of her goals and paved the way
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: for other black artists to also later on be be
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: I be in that title role. And there was a
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: quote in the nineteen twenty seven Amsterdam News article that
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: said this, the critics need no longer complain that Verdi
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: made his greatest heroin black, forcing white singers to make
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: themselves up for the role. And I'm just laughing at
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: this quote, because nobody forced anybodyselves black. It's like, what
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: forced is a pretty strong word, right.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: But that is what happened.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: So when she was seeing this person on stage performing Aida,
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: and she was like, hey, I want to do that.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: She was saying somebody who was white who was performing
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: the role. But apparently she was offered a five year
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: contract to sing the role, but she turned it down
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: to go back to the States with her mother. And
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: of course she did do more performance when she got
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: back to the States, which she did in the fall
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: of nineteen twenty seven, and William M. Kelly, who was
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: the editor of the Amsterdam News, organized her first tour
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: back in the US. She also started to take on
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: voice students and in August in nineteen thirty she married
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: doctor Benjamin F. Mcleve, who was a physician and dentist
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: in Memphis, and she also that year started teaching at
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: Bishop College in Marshall, Texas, where she became the first
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: black American director of music at the school. She was
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: later head of the voice department at Tuskegee Institute. She
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: also taught at Fisk University, and so her career from
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: performance started to go more into voice teaching. But there
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: are some quotes that I really like from this one
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: article that came out around nineteen thirty in the Bronzeman,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: and this article was by Ruby Berkeley Goodwin. So I'm
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: going to read a couple of them. Also, these are
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: quotes directly from Florence, So these are in Florence's where
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: it's herself, and she says this, my desires now are
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: higher than when I was a child. I thought then
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: that if I could only play to assist my mother,
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: I would be satisfied.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Now I know that art is not racial.
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: Art is universal, and to be an artist one must
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: aim not only to rank with those of a certain group,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: but to rank with all those who have ever accomplished
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: anything worthwhile in that line of endeavor. And that is
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: one of her quotes that I wanted to share because
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: I feel like it gives more insight into how she
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: viewed her her legacy, the work that she did, her accomplishments,
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: because I did see. I think it was in that
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: same article her mentioning that there were other people. I
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: think there were her white peers who were like, hey,
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: your race is going to get in the way of
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: your work. And in that article she goes on to
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: talk about how psychology is important to her has helped
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: her understand and not understand people not have fear. But
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: in this case she's specifically speaking about how she still
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: felt even though she wasn't acting like she was ignorant
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: of the difficulties that came with being a black person
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: and a performer in opera. Specifically, she also wasn't letting
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: it keep her from taking part in this art that
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: she really cared about. So I think that's an important
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: message to share from her. And in this article, the
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: author also says, upon hearing her and recital, we were
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: forced to re echo the words of Louis Michelle. There
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: was fire and feeling. There was sweetness and poise, there
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: was joy and drama, there were tears and laughter in
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: her singing. It was a feast of song such as
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: only Florence Cole Talbert herself is able to supply.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: So I saw a.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: Lot of this in the media about her. You can
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: go listen to her voice, so if you go on YouTube,
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: everyone can listen to recordings of her singing. People had
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: always always had these words to say about her that
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: was about the sweetness of her voice and how talented
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: she was, how skilled she was in her singing, and
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: how much they enjoy listening to it.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And I just like in this quote.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: Specifically, how much they emphasize her range, so in her
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: delivery and in her actual technicality as well in her
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: emotional expressiveness. And I particularly love the word feast because
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: that makes it feel like it's a very like totally
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: embodied experience when you go see her in opera.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: So I appreciated that quote for that.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: And in July of nineteen fifty three, the National Negro
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: Opera GIL gave her this certificate of merit that called
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: her the first.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Lady in Grand Opera. In her later.
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: Years, she continued to teach music and voice to her
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: students in Memphis, Tennessee. She died on April third, nineteen
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: sixty one, in Memphis, and at that point she was
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: seventy years old. And she has been recognized since, like
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: for instance, the mclev Project, which was named after her,
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: was established in twenty seventeen, and it says that it
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: seeks to deepen opera memphisis engagement with issues equity and
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: diversity and opera both on stage and in the audience.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: And they also establish fellowships which are for directors and
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: conductors of color. So is that is her story in
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: a nutshell?
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: Wow?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: What a story it is?
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: So many accolades so many first, so much done. I
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: do love that she kind of manifested this save. I
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: love that she was like, one day, I want to
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: do that, I want to sing that, and she did it.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah it is.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it seems like something you would ask for,
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: But that would seem far fetched when you asked for
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: it at such a young age because you're a pioneer
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: in it and there isn't there aren't many other people
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: doing that. So to say I want to do that
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: and actually like follow along on that path is pretty
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: I think, pretty empowering.
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: I'm excited to go and listen to it. I want
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: to know now with all the like she's the best
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: above everyone else.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I need to know.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: I can't wait to hear your critique, Samantha.
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: Yes, because of my expertise and opera, which we've already established.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: It was so good. It's so good.
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: No, I'm really excited to listen to her because I
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: feel like there's so much to that. Anyway, just because
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: opera is such an amazing tradition and it is, it's
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: not very I think even.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Today, it's not very welcoming to just anyone.
• 28:01
  Speaker 6: You know, there's a whole level of like understanding of
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: what opera is even acknowledging knowing what it is and
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: liking it, it feels like it's another tier, so you
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: have to like prove yourself.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Do you mean opera? So I'm excited to see and
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: listen to part of its origins?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think you'll like it. I'll tell you later.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: It's always fun when we get to check out some
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: poetry or music or something after one of these. So
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: thank you as always Eve, no problem, we're bringing this
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: story to us.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you?
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Y'all can find me first on my website, which is
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: Eve's Jeffcoat dot com. That's y v E s j
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: E F F co a t dot com. You can
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: get to everything else from there basically, but if you
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: want to go straight to Instagram, you can go to
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: not Apologizing And you can also find me on many
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: other episodes of Sminty talking about female first accomplishments of
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: women in history.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, and occasionally helping us through a much needed meditation
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: that too, Yes true? Yeah, well, thank you as always,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Eves listeners. If you would like to contact us, you
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: can you can email us at Hello at stuff whenever
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Told You dot com. You can find us on Blue
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Sky at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: at stuff When Never Told You. We're also on YouTube.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: We have tea public store, and we have a book
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: always to our super producer Christina, executive pducer My and
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: your contributor Joey.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Thanks to you for listening Stuff Never Told You production
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: by Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.