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ConspirAsylum 1: Lobotomatrix · Cosmic Peach

0:00
Speaker 1: Oh there. M hm.
0:31
Speaker 2: Trigger warn This podcast may include explicit content that will
0:37
Speaker 2: take you out of your comfort zone and make you
0:39
Speaker 2: question reality.
0:40
Speaker 1: Listener's discretion is advised. Hmm.
1:01
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome back to the brand new cult mini series.
1:07
Speaker 3: In this series, Colby and I will be taking you
1:10
Speaker 3: on a journey through the mysteries of mental illness. This
1:15
Speaker 3: series was actually inspired by a conversation Colby and I
1:19
Speaker 3: were having about a local crazy homeless guy who may
1:24
Speaker 3: or may not have machete some poor guys head off
1:29
Speaker 3: in Ashland. You were telling me.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're taking a lot of stories and
1:33
Speaker 1: clumping them together.
1:34
Speaker 3: Anyways, We're gonna be talking about the history of mental illness,
1:39
Speaker 3: the medieval treatments all the way to the modern day outlook,
1:45
Speaker 3: is mental illness more of a misunderstood spiritual condition or
1:51
Speaker 3: simply something that can be prescribed away or therapy sessioned away?
1:58
Speaker 3: This is the topic and today today's episode is can
2:02
Speaker 3: Spire Asylum Part one the Loboto Matrix and Colby is
2:08
Speaker 3: joining me for this series. Colby, how are you?
2:12
Speaker 1: I'm good? Feeling extra insane tonight?
2:16
Speaker 3: I knew it me too, And isn't it sick?
2:19
Speaker 1: It's a full moon.
2:20
Speaker 3: I think, oo, you can be lunatics tonight.
2:25
Speaker 1: I'm too tired to be a lunatic.
2:29
Speaker 3: August eighth, so we have eight eight lions gate energy
2:34
Speaker 3: plus a full moon. There's probably a lot of homeless
2:39
Speaker 3: crazy people running around somewhere, machete in people's heads off.
2:44
Speaker 1: It's a waxing gibbus tonight. It's not quite full Oh.
2:48
Speaker 3: It's a waxing gibbis. Are you excited for this new
2:52
Speaker 3: mini series?
2:54
Speaker 1: Super excited?
2:56
Speaker 3: So where should we begin? At the beginning? Right? The
3:01
Speaker 3: history of mental illness?
3:04
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think a good reference point to start things
3:10
Speaker 1: off would be what many people think the definition of
3:15
Speaker 1: insanity is.
3:16
Speaker 3: It's not doing something over and over again.
3:19
Speaker 1: Okay, so do you know that the phrase how it goes?
3:22
Speaker 1: I don't know what word for word, The definition of
3:25
Speaker 1: insanity is repeating the same thing over and over but
3:28
Speaker 1: expecting different results. Something.
3:30
Speaker 3: That's not the definition.
3:31
Speaker 1: No, it isn't. But do you know who is attributed
3:34
Speaker 1: to having had said that?
3:36
Speaker 3: Some idiot?
3:37
Speaker 1: Well, don't look at my notes. I have heard it
3:42
Speaker 1: was Albert Einstein. Oh yeah, you know what that does?
3:45
Speaker 3: Sound familiar.
3:47
Speaker 1: I've also heard it was Benjamin Franklin.
3:53
Speaker 3: I don't know.
3:54
Speaker 1: I also heard that it was Mark Twain. I can
4:00
Speaker 1: I could.
4:00
Speaker 3: Get behind the first one and that one, but not
4:03
Speaker 3: Ben Franklin. He just didn't seem like the type to
4:06
Speaker 3: be saying.
4:07
Speaker 1: Well, the funny thing is none of those three men
4:11
Speaker 1: said that.
4:11
Speaker 3: Who the fuck said it?
4:13
Speaker 1: Well, when you dig around a little bit, it looks
4:16
Speaker 1: like the first place that it's that it was printed
4:19
Speaker 1: or was like said to be a thing other than
4:22
Speaker 1: people saying other people said it, because there's no documentation
4:27
Speaker 1: of any of those three aforementioned people having said it.
4:30
Speaker 1: But the earliest is from a fucking alan On magazine article,
4:38
Speaker 1: like a a non said it. Alanon is alcoholics, Anonymous
4:43
Speaker 1: is for alcoholics. Alan On is for loved ones or
4:48
Speaker 1: family members of alcoholics. Really, you haven't heard of alan On.
4:52
Speaker 3: No.
4:54
Speaker 1: So they all have their sayings, you know, alcoholics, Anonymous
4:58
Speaker 1: has their However, you want to look at their twelve
5:01
Speaker 1: steps and the things they tell you that you have
5:05
Speaker 1: to do and that you have to have the power
5:08
Speaker 1: come from without from outside yourself. But Alann had this
5:13
Speaker 1: other thing where they basically said, I mean, I'm paraphrasing
5:18
Speaker 1: what the statement meant, but it seemed like it was sane.
5:24
Speaker 1: Addicts are it's a form of insanity, and you kind.
5:29
Speaker 3: Of have to Okay, Yeah, but it's been so liberally
5:32
Speaker 3: applied the word insanity. No, that's stupid. Oh, it's expectingly
5:38
Speaker 3: it's doing the same thing.
5:40
Speaker 1: Let's break that statement down, because if that was true,
5:44
Speaker 1: nobody who ever practiced anything that they got good at
5:48
Speaker 1: would have ever kept going unless they were insane. Because
5:50
Speaker 1: if you fucking start throwing darts, you're doing the same
5:54
Speaker 1: thing trying to get better, and you are expecting different results.
5:58
Speaker 1: And if you practice enough at anything, you will get better.
6:00
Speaker 3: But practicing in and of itself is doing the same thing.
6:04
Speaker 1: Over and over. That's why I'm saying that, and.
6:06
Speaker 3: Getting different results because you're getting better at it.
6:10
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, anyway, we're getting into semantics of the word insanity.
6:15
Speaker 1: And another thing that I find interesting is that insanity
6:20
Speaker 1: in technical terms, there's only one place you can find it. Today.
6:25
Speaker 1: It's been replaced by a whole slew of mental health nomenclature.
6:30
Speaker 1: And now, what's your guess on where it is still
6:34
Speaker 1: a technical term insanity? I'll give you a hint. Serial killers, Well,
6:46
Speaker 1: they don't use insane anymore. The word insane technical terms.
6:51
Speaker 1: Unless it's in the court of law. You can plead insanity.
6:55
Speaker 3: Right, okay, Temporary insanity.
6:59
Speaker 1: Or temporary insanity is a plea. Usually it seems like
7:04
Speaker 1: a plea of desperation, but you can plead full on
7:09
Speaker 1: insanity too.
7:10
Speaker 3: There were other words like back in the day, like
7:13
Speaker 3: you could say somebody was mad, you could say somebody
7:17
Speaker 3: was uh, even possessed. They would say that people were
7:23
Speaker 3: possessed or mad or insane retarded.
7:28
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but those are two overlapping things, right. Retardation
7:36
Speaker 1: mental illness of any kind is a pretty broad term.
7:41
Speaker 1: But I would say that when we used to call
7:44
Speaker 1: people insane or crazy, you were talking about some kind
7:50
Speaker 1: of biological neurological disorder, which they still don't know exactly
7:57
Speaker 1: what causes it to this day. They claim they do
7:59
Speaker 1: because they saw a lot of pharmaceuticals. And I do
8:02
Speaker 1: believe that we were going to get into that in
8:03
Speaker 1: full scale in the second episode. Yes, but pharmaceuticals aside.
8:11
Speaker 1: If you want to start getting into the early history
8:14
Speaker 1: of mental illness slash insanity, you're not going to find
8:18
Speaker 1: a lot out there before, like Greek societies, where every
8:25
Speaker 1: form of mental illness was attributed to a supernatural origin, paranormal, supernatural, religious,
8:35
Speaker 1: fill in the blank with that kind of word, and
8:36
Speaker 1: that was what was going on. Even when you get
8:39
Speaker 1: back into like ancient tribal society and shamanism, which I
8:46
Speaker 1: think once we start getting into it, I have an
8:48
Speaker 1: article I want to read about a guy who came
8:51
Speaker 1: over to America from somewhere in Africa in the early
8:55
Speaker 1: eighties and he couldn't believe the way that we look
8:59
Speaker 1: at it because their cultures have always looked at it
9:02
Speaker 1: as something completely different, which will we will get into.
9:06
Speaker 1: But what are your thoughts on like how it kind
9:09
Speaker 1: of emerged and more often to what it is today.
9:14
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think, uh, as we're going to
9:19
Speaker 3: kind of get into in the second episode about pharmaceuticals
9:23
Speaker 3: and the big money machine that is mental illness, you'll
9:28
Speaker 3: kind of see this pattern developing. We're in the beginning
9:32
Speaker 3: in like ancient cultures, which I'm going to touch on
9:35
Speaker 3: a little bit, if you had someone in your community
9:39
Speaker 3: that was insane or whatever the fuck was wrong with them,
9:43
Speaker 3: they treated it as like a spiritual condition and they
9:46
Speaker 3: like nurtured the person and they like tried to you know,
9:51
Speaker 3: do remedies and stuff on the person to get to
9:55
Speaker 3: try to fix them. And now it's just like it.
9:59
Speaker 3: We've gotten to the point where it's just like shoven
10:01
Speaker 3: peels down people's throats. They completely removed the spiritual aspect,
10:07
Speaker 3: I mean to zero. There is no spiritual aspect of
10:10
Speaker 3: it anymore. It's all medicine. And in the beginning they
10:15
Speaker 3: would do like rituals, they would do prayers on people.
10:21
Speaker 3: Uh they you know, they thought supernatural forces or even
10:26
Speaker 3: curses or deities, could it be responsible for their condition?
10:33
Speaker 3: And they even something that both of us wanted to
10:36
Speaker 3: talk about is like the the practice of the Trephi nation,
10:43
Speaker 3: I guess is what it's called, like Jeffrey Dahmer's style,
10:49
Speaker 3: I mean skulls.
10:50
Speaker 1: You make a great point. I did want to counter
10:54
Speaker 1: a couple things you said, just because I don't think
10:56
Speaker 1: the spiritual element has completely disappeared in modern day in
11:01
Speaker 1: mainstream society for the most part, it has. But you
11:03
Speaker 1: can still look at Catholicism and other similar organizations that
11:11
Speaker 1: treat this as.
11:12
Speaker 3: It We're talking about like the mainstream narrative, when you
11:18
Speaker 3: find a schizophrenic person, it's not to take them to
11:20
Speaker 3: the pope, it's to take them to for sure somewhere
11:24
Speaker 3: to get pills.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, when you do look at it through normal eyes,
11:29
Speaker 1: that is the go to. But I don't think it's
11:31
Speaker 1: completely disappeared. And I also don't think the spiritual element
11:36
Speaker 1: back in the day was always met with a nurturing reaction.
11:41
Speaker 1: I think sometimes even early on, there was a lot
11:45
Speaker 1: of outcasting going on with people who had mental illness,
11:49
Speaker 1: and especially when you started getting into like the European
11:53
Speaker 1: societies where this was showing up, and it was talking
11:59
Speaker 1: about even before right, right, But I would say the
12:03
Speaker 1: outcasting of the mentally ill did have a huge uptick
12:08
Speaker 1: once it was you know, the stigma attached to it.
12:12
Speaker 1: It was if your family had any kind of name
12:15
Speaker 1: or reputation, that was the last thing that you wanted
12:19
Speaker 1: to be associated with. And even back in the day
12:24
Speaker 1: when there was like tribalism and shamanism was a big
12:26
Speaker 1: thing going on, there was a lot of tribes that
12:30
Speaker 1: were scared of this and they it was met with
12:33
Speaker 1: a huge misunderstanding and fear. But yeah, it's never just
12:38
Speaker 1: been like one way across the board how we've reacted
12:41
Speaker 1: to mental illness, and it may never be unless we
12:45
Speaker 1: do have some huge breakthrough and understanding, because I'm of
12:50
Speaker 1: the mindset that it could be spiritual and physical and
12:53
Speaker 1: sometimes more so one or the other.
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Speaker 3: Well, I could get down with that, but I try
13:00
Speaker 3: to look at like a bunch of different ancient cultures
13:03
Speaker 3: to see how things have escalated to this point to
13:09
Speaker 3: where you know, we look at it the way that
13:12
Speaker 3: we do. And you know, is every homeless person just
13:17
Speaker 3: possessed by a demon? I don't know that. So yeah,
13:21
Speaker 3: could it be some spiritual some physical?
13:24
Speaker 1: Yes, well in the two build upon one another.
13:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. I mean, I know you wanted to talk
13:30
Speaker 3: about Greece, but before we do that, can I touch
13:34
Speaker 3: on a few other ancients?
13:35
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I was just using Greece as one of
13:37
Speaker 1: those examples of the more compassionate.
13:43
Speaker 3: They were the one of the more compassionate.
13:46
Speaker 1: So even though there's elements I'm gonna touch on that
13:49
Speaker 1: show how fucking far behind they were in some ways.
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Speaker 3: No, I agree with you on that, but I'm gonna
13:55
Speaker 3: let you actually cover that one. I have Mesopotamia as
13:59
Speaker 3: one of the and so I looked into and they
14:04
Speaker 3: were big into like thinking that people were possessed by
14:08
Speaker 3: deities and they would say, like the hands of those
14:16
Speaker 3: deities like that. That they would say the hands of
14:20
Speaker 3: ish tar was used as a psychological illness, like a
14:25
Speaker 3: term for psychological illness, like they were cursed or something.
14:29
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, remember that word. My son always says it.
14:36
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he's kind of stopped.
14:38
Speaker 1: But it was like one of his first things like
14:40
Speaker 1: to say. And we wondered why.
14:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they would say if somebody was like insane,
14:45
Speaker 3: they would say that they had the hands of ishtar.
14:47
Speaker 3: So whatever deity they thought was possessing them or cursing
14:52
Speaker 3: them or plaguing them.
14:54
Speaker 1: And then.
14:56
Speaker 3: In Mesopotamia, the royal family of el I guess that
15:02
Speaker 3: was one of the big royal families or whatever. It
15:06
Speaker 3: was notorious for its members frequently being insane. This royal
15:13
Speaker 3: family in ancient Mesopotamia makes you wonder if they were
15:17
Speaker 3: doing a little incestuous shit right for so many of
15:20
Speaker 3: their family members to be fucking insane. But they actually
15:25
Speaker 3: said that a rectile dysfunction was a psychological problem in
15:32
Speaker 3: ancient Mesopotamia. And you know, men have needed blue shoe
15:39
Speaker 3: since literally the beginning of time.
15:41
Speaker 1: Can we insert the sam tripoli Id reader right here?
15:45
Speaker 3: But that was interesting to me. It's like this one
15:48
Speaker 3: royal family was specifically or particularly afflicted with mental illness
15:56
Speaker 3: and they would blame it on having soft penises. Yes,
16:01
Speaker 3: I mean I would agree that their penises were so
16:05
Speaker 3: soft it drove them insane.
16:08
Speaker 1: Or vice versa. I think that them looking at it
16:12
Speaker 1: as a psychological disorder was thinking way ahead of the
16:16
Speaker 1: time for what we are led to believe that culture
16:19
Speaker 1: had at their fingertips as far as information goes. But yeah,
16:23
Speaker 1: I think nine times out of ten there are certain
16:28
Speaker 1: physical afflictions that can cause impotency, but for the most
16:31
Speaker 1: part it is psychological. So good job Mesopotamia.
16:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, good job Mesopotamia.
16:40
Speaker 1: You think they put hummus on their blue cheoe? Yes,
16:43
Speaker 1: they did hum chew.
16:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was actually called to bully chow.
16:49
Speaker 1: Well nice.
16:53
Speaker 3: Anyways, I'm gonna skip Rome, even though I put a
16:56
Speaker 3: bunch of notes in here, because Greece and Rome kind
16:59
Speaker 3: of go hand in hand. So I'm just gonna skip
17:02
Speaker 3: to the next one I had.
17:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just inherited everything from them.
17:05
Speaker 3: Right, So mental disorders in ancient Egypt. This is one
17:11
Speaker 3: that I wanted to talk to you about because you
17:15
Speaker 3: found out a bunch of information about Hippocrates, and actually
17:20
Speaker 3: I think now would be a good time to talk
17:22
Speaker 3: about that before.
17:22
Speaker 1: I pronounced Hippocrates. Have you seen Bill and Ted?
17:28
Speaker 3: Yes, so Crates, I forgot about that.
17:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is how it's spelled, the Hippocrates, and.
17:37
Speaker 3: You talk about Hippocrates in Rome, and then I'll talk
17:40
Speaker 3: about ancient Egypt because I think they actually kind of
17:43
Speaker 3: tie together.
17:45
Speaker 1: Well, ancient Egypt, I'll say right off the bat, we're
17:49
Speaker 1: highly advanced in the way they looked at it. Yes,
17:52
Speaker 1: they sounded like a Joe Rogan podcast. When it came
17:55
Speaker 1: to mental illness. They basically their answer to it was
18:00
Speaker 1: to expose the afflicted to socializing, recreation and creativity. So
18:10
Speaker 1: if melancholy strikes someone for an amount of time, they
18:13
Speaker 1: would push them to engage with you know, go to
18:18
Speaker 1: a concert, paint picture, do whatever. And oftentimes it was successful.
18:26
Speaker 1: Of course, people like Joe Rogan don't realize that sometimes
18:31
Speaker 1: people are just fucking depressed or mentally afflicted in ways
18:34
Speaker 1: that can't be but it does help a lot of people.
18:38
Speaker 1: Like the stagnant lifestyle, having everything you need, not really
18:41
Speaker 1: having adversity in your day to day life. I mean,
18:44
Speaker 1: these are things that are preached now in the right
18:47
Speaker 1: wing wellness community, but there is a lot to it.
18:51
Speaker 1: It's not the end all, be all cure, but I
18:54
Speaker 1: think the Egyptians were ahead of their time for thinking
18:57
Speaker 1: like that, and.
19:00
Speaker 3: The same lines with Joe Rogan. The ancient Egyptians also
19:03
Speaker 3: said to cure hysteria and melancholy, they should take hallucinogens, right,
19:11
Speaker 3: So that was another thing that the ancient Egyptians kind of.
19:16
Speaker 1: And that fucking toe shaped gnome is obsessed with Egypt.
19:20
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, well, who is it really they did?
19:25
Speaker 3: They did spells and shit too, Don't don't get it twisted.
19:28
Speaker 3: In ancient Egypt, there were They did use certain temples
19:34
Speaker 3: and spell casting and hallucinogens, and.
19:39
Speaker 1: They also believed in the wandering Uterus, which we will
19:43
Speaker 1: talk about. That even kind of crosses over into hippocrites.
19:48
Speaker 3: Would you say his fucking name?
19:49
Speaker 1: Right, I'm saying it, Bill and tedstyle Hippocrates. For as
19:56
Speaker 1: much as he was given credit for, he was also
19:59
Speaker 1: kind of looney.
20:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was. Go ahead, talk about Greece.
20:05
Speaker 1: Then, well, I've got an article to read. Oh yes,
20:13
Speaker 1: you said Greece. I had an article on ancient Egypt.
20:19
Speaker 3: Oh, sure, if you have one on ancient Egypt before we.
20:22
Speaker 1: Get to and I also at some point, do you
20:24
Speaker 1: want to read the shamanic view of mental illness by
20:26
Speaker 1: that guy that came over in the eighties with the
20:30
Speaker 1: you know African Yeah, but any of the African view
20:34
Speaker 1: of mental illness that he brought with him over here.
20:36
Speaker 3: And just thought, you want to sum up the ancient
20:40
Speaker 3: culture's segment with.
20:42
Speaker 1: That article, Yeah, we can do that, just it'll be
20:44
Speaker 1: a good segue acrossing over into the botto too. But
20:48
Speaker 1: for now, this woman wrote an article, Kathy Pike, and
20:55
Speaker 1: she's like fucking Columbia University or some shit. Yeah. So
21:02
Speaker 1: she points out that the hieroglyphs, statues, and mummies from
21:05
Speaker 1: thousands of years ago is tells stories of war, leadership, succession,
21:09
Speaker 1: cultural beliefs, and the evolution of ideas. But a lot
21:14
Speaker 1: of the stuff that was overlooked these people think could
21:18
Speaker 1: be attributed to their view on mental health. And here's
21:23
Speaker 1: some points she's brought up where the spiritual, mystical, magical,
21:27
Speaker 1: and medical meat mental health and ancient Egypt cannot be
21:31
Speaker 1: understood without exploring the rituals, amulets, incantations and beliefs they were,
21:36
Speaker 1: and you were talking about this that were at once spiritual, mystical, magical,
21:41
Speaker 1: and medical. I noticed you had this in your notes too.
21:45
Speaker 1: But Papyrus Ebers, the best preserved and most extensive medical
21:50
Speaker 1: text from ancient Egypt, was written approximately fifteen hundred BC,
21:55
Speaker 1: reflecting some teachings that are thought to date back as
21:58
Speaker 1: far as three thousand in BC. Papyrus Ebers recurred records
22:03
Speaker 1: over seven hundred spells to send away illness causing demonic forces.
22:08
Speaker 1: It also documents an empirical practice of testing and refining
22:12
Speaker 1: interventions to improve outcomes, including guidance on birth control that
22:17
Speaker 1: foreshadows modern day barrier methods of contraception, and a treatment
22:21
Speaker 1: for guinea worm still in use today ivermectin guinea worm.
22:27
Speaker 1: That's what it says.
22:28
Speaker 3: Were they thinking that people had like worms in their brain?
22:31
Speaker 1: I don't know, probably something along those lines. What about
22:36
Speaker 1: the brain? The Edwin Smith Paprius, also dating from approximately
22:41
Speaker 1: fifteen fifty BC, stands out because it describes the brain
22:45
Speaker 1: for the first time in history, as enclosed in a membrane,
22:48
Speaker 1: with two hemispheres patterned and with convolutions. It contains The
22:53
Speaker 1: first known descriptions of the miniges is that how that
22:58
Speaker 1: said sure cerebral spinal fluid, and intercranial pulsations. Despite these
23:07
Speaker 1: early anatomical descriptions of the brain, the mummification process suggests
23:11
Speaker 1: that the ancient Egypts had limited understanding or appreciating appreciation
23:16
Speaker 1: of brain functioning. The afterlife was all important in ancient Egypts,
23:21
Speaker 1: and extensive, extensive measures were taken. The process of mummification
23:25
Speaker 1: to prepare people for the world hereafter death was nothing
23:29
Speaker 1: but a further step in life. But for reasons I
23:31
Speaker 1: have yet to understand, they thought that the brain was
23:33
Speaker 1: not necessary for the afterlife because it's not during mummification.
23:38
Speaker 1: It was scooped out through the nostrils with an iron
23:41
Speaker 1: hook and a process known as ex cerebration.
23:46
Speaker 3: Okay, I have a question they if they're not worried
23:52
Speaker 3: about the brain and they're only looking at the brain
23:56
Speaker 3: as they do the mummification process, how the fun do
24:00
Speaker 3: they know all that stuff about the cerebellum and the
24:03
Speaker 3: core texes and the Yeah.
24:05
Speaker 1: It's not like they cracked a skull open and examined
24:08
Speaker 1: it because they're yanking it out through the nose.
24:10
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. It's like they're not giving the
24:13
Speaker 3: ancient Egyptians enough credit here for.
24:15
Speaker 1: Being a wag's That's the thing, is.
24:18
Speaker 3: An understanding stuff that we have no idea about. I
24:21
Speaker 3: think they had electricity. I mean, I think they had
24:23
Speaker 3: all kinds of shit. They're fucking even understanding.
24:26
Speaker 1: If we want to do a conspiracy episode about like
24:29
Speaker 1: who these people were and what they were doing, I'm
24:31
Speaker 1: guaranteeing you all this stuff is.
24:33
Speaker 3: Gonna just see how she undermined them by saying that
24:36
Speaker 3: they were just retards taking brains out through the nose
24:39
Speaker 3: and mummification and da da da. Well, it's like, now, bitch.
24:43
Speaker 1: She's making a huge leap that they would view the
24:47
Speaker 1: brain as important during the next step into the afterlife,
24:52
Speaker 1: when I mean, obviously that's just part of the physical form.
24:57
Speaker 3: They did mummification as a process to like preserve the body.
25:01
Speaker 3: But that this papyrus of them documenting medical stuff has
25:06
Speaker 3: nothing to do with mummification. They're talking about they're talking
25:10
Speaker 3: about like electric synapses in the brain.
25:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, but how is that?
25:17
Speaker 3: I mean, people just don't understand Egyptians. I'm not saying
25:21
Speaker 3: I'm a fucking expert on it or anything. I'm just
25:23
Speaker 3: saying they knew what was up.
25:25
Speaker 1: Wait, this is proving that. Number three Ancient Egypt's description
25:30
Speaker 1: of depression. The ancient Egyptian medical text describes somatic, emotional
25:35
Speaker 1: and psychological symptoms of depression with language that foreshadows clinical
25:40
Speaker 1: description of mood disorders today, as discussed by Professor Mervat Nasser.
25:46
Speaker 1: Papyrus Ebers contains descriptions of ill health that are easily
25:51
Speaker 1: recognized as what we would call mental health conditions today.
25:55
Speaker 1: Exserts include the mind and the heart, which goes up
25:58
Speaker 1: and falls down. The mind kneels his heart in its place.
26:02
Speaker 1: His heart becomes weary, he eats little and is fastidious,
26:06
Speaker 1: and his mind is drowned. This means his mind is forgetful,
26:10
Speaker 1: like one who's thinking of something else, as if his
26:13
Speaker 1: mind is dark. The ancient Egyptians focused on the somatic
26:17
Speaker 1: aspects of conditions we would describe as mental orders today.
26:21
Speaker 1: The prioritization of somatic features and mental health is something
26:24
Speaker 1: that endures in many parts of the world, including modern
26:27
Speaker 1: day Egypt. This one I found very interesting. Number four
26:32
Speaker 1: dream interpretation. Sigmund Freud, the father of Psychoanalysis published The
26:37
Speaker 1: Interpretations of Dreams in eighteen ninety nine as one of
26:40
Speaker 1: his earliest publications that contributed to the foundations of ideas
26:43
Speaker 1: and theories that revolutionized our understanding of mental health. Depends
26:47
Speaker 1: on who you're asking there, human development, interpersonal relations, and
26:51
Speaker 1: intra psychic dynamics. The ancient Egypts had their own version
26:57
Speaker 1: of dream interpretation many centuries earlier. In ancient Egypt's, a
27:01
Speaker 1: person suffering from psychological distress would be sent to a sanatorium,
27:06
Speaker 1: a sleep temple dedicated to healing. In the sanatorium, they
27:10
Speaker 1: would enter a dark cell and prepare for a therapeutic dream.
27:14
Speaker 1: I have that in my notes too. A hypnotic state
27:17
Speaker 1: was induced by lamps and burning perfumed wood. This sounds like,
27:21
Speaker 1: you know, like an isolation tank or something, but it
27:23
Speaker 1: sounds like some hippie dippy nonsense that you could find
27:27
Speaker 1: in Ashland, Oregon. Well, you know those like they call
27:30
Speaker 1: them caves, but it's like deprivation for days on end.
27:35
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers went to one of them here and he
27:37
Speaker 1: didn't last the full amount of times.
27:39
Speaker 3: Like they're doing Reikie on these fuckers.
27:42
Speaker 1: The hypnotic state was induced by lamps and burning perfumed wood.
27:46
Speaker 1: Priests interpreted the dreams and consulted the Egyptian dream Berg
27:50
Speaker 1: dream Book to find cures. Unlike Freud, who believed that
27:54
Speaker 1: dreams represent an individual's unconscious and internal psychic conflict, the
27:59
Speaker 1: ancient Egypts understood dreams to be supernatural, where gods were
28:04
Speaker 1: responsible for shaping dream content and protecting against bad dreams.
28:08
Speaker 3: I could get on board with that.
28:10
Speaker 1: And this is the last observation number five. First psychology experiment.
28:18
Speaker 1: Psychology historian Morton Hunt suggests that the first psychology experiment
28:22
Speaker 1: conducted might be an experiment performed by the Egyptian pharaoh
28:27
Speaker 1: Samaticus Samatitius. I think it's tikis the first and seventh
28:34
Speaker 1: century BC. He wanted to ascertain whether Egypt was the
28:38
Speaker 1: oldest civilization on earth. He hypothesized that children raised in
28:42
Speaker 1: isolation from birth with no language instruction, would spontaneously develop
28:47
Speaker 1: the capacity to speak the language of the original civilization
28:51
Speaker 1: of humanity, and posited that it would be Egyptian. He
28:54
Speaker 1: had two children raised in a remote region by a
28:57
Speaker 1: shepherd who was instructed not to speak to the children.
29:00
Speaker 1: This sounds like fucking Nazi shit. Yeah, at the age
29:05
Speaker 1: of two. The first word they spoke was bekos, which
29:07
Speaker 1: turned out to be the Ragian word for bread. Clearly,
29:12
Speaker 1: the experimental design was seriously flawed and it would never
29:15
Speaker 1: get through a modern research ethics review board. You don't say,
29:20
Speaker 1: but it is remarkable in its attempt to experimentally answer
29:23
Speaker 1: the question of whether the human capacity for language is innate.
29:28
Speaker 3: That's interesting. I'm telling you ancient Egyptians were up to
29:35
Speaker 3: some shit. Was that all you had on them? Because
29:40
Speaker 3: I think you're gonna find China equally as interesting.
29:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we could get into Hippocrates after that.
29:51
Speaker 3: That sounds good because I don't know how many notes
29:54
Speaker 3: you have on China.
29:55
Speaker 1: Zero.
29:56
Speaker 3: Oh good.
29:57
Speaker 1: So I had some observations about how they treated in sanity,
30:00
Speaker 1: and like more modern culture, it was one of the
30:02
Speaker 1: cultures that did a lot of the shunning of.
30:05
Speaker 3: Really, well, this is ancient China.
30:08
Speaker 1: I'm I did not look into China at all.
30:11
Speaker 3: So it's actually a good segue into Hippocrates because I
30:16
Speaker 3: believe he actually ripped the Chinese methods off.
30:20
Speaker 1: Are you sure he wasn't just paying respectful homage?
30:23
Speaker 3: No, Because he's credited as coming up with the theory.
30:26
Speaker 1: Well, you know he's white.
30:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
30:30
Speaker 1: You think you go over to China and they're teaching
30:32
Speaker 1: him as the guy who did all this.
30:35
Speaker 3: No, but okay, but think of it though, ancient China
30:39
Speaker 3: has a lot of rich history, right, and then Hippocrates
30:44
Speaker 3: is credited as coming up with this theory, But the
30:47
Speaker 3: ancient Chinese were practicing it for a lot longer.
30:51
Speaker 1: You're talking about the Four Humors.
30:53
Speaker 3: Yes, so they believed mental and physical illnesses were caused
30:58
Speaker 3: by imbalances in the forces of yin and yang. But
31:04
Speaker 3: they they took it as a physical and a mental condition.
31:11
Speaker 3: So they had this whole yin and yang thing. But
31:14
Speaker 3: the way that they balanced it out was the Four Humors,
31:18
Speaker 3: but they called it something else. The earliest known record
31:23
Speaker 3: of mental illness in ancient China dates back to eleven
31:27
Speaker 3: hundred BC, and they would use herbs and acupuncture, which
31:34
Speaker 3: actually acupuncture is still popular to this day because it's
31:39
Speaker 3: fucking effective.
31:40
Speaker 1: A lot of veterans when it added to the treatments
31:43
Speaker 1: that the VA covers, because it helps a lot of
31:46
Speaker 1: them out. Like we're talking PTSD, which is a form
31:50
Speaker 1: of mental illness.
31:51
Speaker 3: I actually have had two people tell me that they
31:55
Speaker 3: had infertility issues, got acupuncture, got pregnant like on their
32:01
Speaker 3: next cycle. And then I was talking to my doula
32:05
Speaker 3: and she said, don't don't get induced, don't get a
32:09
Speaker 3: membrane sweep, don't do any of that. She said, go
32:12
Speaker 3: get acupuncture. It'll legit start your labor after just a
32:17
Speaker 3: few treatments. Like acupuncture is some kind of fucking The
32:21
Speaker 3: Chinese had it figured out.
32:23
Speaker 1: Did you, doula listen to this podcast?
32:25
Speaker 3: No? Why, she's definitely not ready for it.
32:30
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, I met this woman the
32:33
Speaker 1: other day.
32:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's not the type to listen to this podcast.
32:36
Speaker 1: I think you should tell her about it.
32:38
Speaker 3: No, I'm not gonna tell her about nothing. So the
32:41
Speaker 3: Inner Canon of the Yellow Emperor, as it's called, described her.
32:46
Speaker 1: That's racist. Why yellow?
32:49
Speaker 3: Hey, I didn't name it.
32:51
Speaker 1: I didn't say you were the one being racist. I
32:53
Speaker 1: just think we're gonna get hashtag canceled. Whatever.
32:57
Speaker 3: Cancel me. Then, that's what it's called the Inner Canon
33:00
Speaker 3: of the Yellow Emperor. It described symptoms, mechanisms, and therapies
33:05
Speaker 3: for mental illness, emphasizing connections between bodily organs and emotions.
33:12
Speaker 3: So they thought like, whatever your symptoms you were presenting mentally,
33:18
Speaker 3: it was connected to some kind of organ in your body,
33:21
Speaker 3: which that's why they used acupuncture so much. But they
33:27
Speaker 3: had this whole thing about if a person exposed themselves
33:38
Speaker 3: to high levels of emotion, Like.
33:41
Speaker 1: Oh, I thought you're gonna say if people exposed themselves
33:46
Speaker 1: they were considered mentally ill.
33:48
Speaker 3: No, it was like they would say, like if they
33:51
Speaker 3: if somebody went to a funeral and they were they
33:56
Speaker 3: cried too much, or if they were exposed to the
33:59
Speaker 3: trauma that they could get possessed and that could also
34:06
Speaker 3: lead to mental illness. So they would they said, it's
34:10
Speaker 3: trauma induced, it's stress induced. These are things that we
34:15
Speaker 3: are just barely understanding today, how stress and trauma affect
34:21
Speaker 3: the body and cause mental illness and actually could probably
34:25
Speaker 3: throw off some shit in your body, you know what
34:28
Speaker 3: I mean, Stress, trauma, those things obviously you know you
34:33
Speaker 3: can end up having split personality disorder based on different
34:38
Speaker 3: types of trauma.
34:39
Speaker 1: Well. Stress arguably is one of the leading causes of
34:44
Speaker 1: the majority of mental or mental and physical elements. But
34:48
Speaker 1: they had this whole.
34:51
Speaker 3: They have this whole bile system that they worked on
34:56
Speaker 3: Yellow bile, green bile, clear bile. You know what I'm saying.
35:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, this is from the Hippocrates. Sanguine, choleric, melancholic,
35:14
Speaker 1: and phlegmatic. Those are the four biles, and one of
35:20
Speaker 1: them is Sanguine is blood, Choleric is yellow bile, melancholic
35:26
Speaker 1: is black bile, and phlegmatic is phlim.
35:32
Speaker 3: So that idea actually came from the ancient Chinese. And
35:40
Speaker 3: I think this is a good segue for you to
35:41
Speaker 3: start talking about Hippocrates, because literally the four humors, as
35:47
Speaker 3: he called them, were the bile system in ancient China.
35:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so if you want to know more about Hippocrates,
35:55
Speaker 1: everybody knows who he is, ancient famous physicysician, who you know,
36:03
Speaker 1: the Hippocratic oath, all that shit. But we're just going
36:07
Speaker 1: to be looking at his model of humorism, the concept.
36:11
Speaker 3: I think he called it humors. I don't know, there's
36:14
Speaker 3: nothing funny about it at all.
36:16
Speaker 1: Humorism, the hemoral theory or memorialism, is a system of
36:20
Speaker 1: medicine detailing is supposed to make up and workings of
36:24
Speaker 1: the human body. And here even in the Wikipedia, adopted
36:31
Speaker 1: by ancient Greek and Roman physicians, and philosophers. It doesn't
36:34
Speaker 1: even mention ancient Chinese. That's what I'm saying. He ripped
36:37
Speaker 1: them off, and here you go. The concept may have
36:40
Speaker 1: origins in ancient Egypt or Mesopotamia, though it wasn't systemized
36:46
Speaker 1: until ancient Greek thinkers.
36:50
Speaker 3: They're just totally going to leave out the chinamen well.
36:52
Speaker 1: Early texts on Indian A Eurveda medicine presented a theory
36:56
Speaker 1: of three or four humors thosas, which they times linked
37:00
Speaker 1: with the five elements earth, water, fire, air, and space.
37:06
Speaker 3: Interesting.
37:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just reading through here. I don't see any
37:09
Speaker 1: mention of the Chinese so far. The concept of humors
37:14
Speaker 1: chemical systems regulating human behavior became more prominent in the
37:17
Speaker 1: writing of medical theorists al Cameon of Croton five forty
37:23
Speaker 1: to five hundred BC. His list of humors was longer
37:27
Speaker 1: and included fundamental elements described by Empedocles, such as the
37:33
Speaker 1: elements Hippo I almost said hypocrites again. Hippocrates usually credited
37:38
Speaker 1: with applying this idea to medicine. In contrast to Alchemion,
37:43
Speaker 1: Hippocrates suggested that humans are the vital fluids blood, flim, yellow, bile,
37:49
Speaker 1: and black bile, and so you know, I don't want
37:52
Speaker 1: to just go through and give you his idea of
37:54
Speaker 1: what it was, but basically his ideas were still used
38:00
Speaker 1: till very recently. There was a YouTube video I was
38:04
Speaker 1: telling Julie about this earlier, where a guy would have
38:09
Speaker 1: his patients piss and he would smell their pea. First,
38:15
Speaker 1: he would look at it to see the colors, and
38:18
Speaker 1: then he would taste it. And one guy said he
38:24
Speaker 1: was depressed, brought his pea to him and he looked
38:29
Speaker 1: at it, tasted it, and he said it was too
38:32
Speaker 1: sweet and it had a slight red tint to it.
38:34
Speaker 1: So he recommended the man, this is what I thought
38:38
Speaker 1: was hilarious, drink a little less red wine and quit
38:42
Speaker 1: eating vegetables because vegetables are overall bad for your health.
38:46
Speaker 1: This is exactly what he told the guy. And this
38:48
Speaker 1: was not This was like filmed, so we're talking very modern,
38:53
Speaker 1: and this was the he was used. That was what
38:57
Speaker 1: he told this one patient, office piss, office piss.
39:04
Speaker 3: He's drank one too many. Now that's that is humorous,
39:11
Speaker 3: did it?
39:12
Speaker 1: It is? And I wonder what my pea would taste like.
39:15
Speaker 3: Well, I'm telling you right now since I've been yours.
39:18
Speaker 1: Pregnant pee has got to be the best.
39:20
Speaker 3: Oh, it is funky.
39:22
Speaker 1: It is funked. He doesn't even need asparagus and that's
39:25
Speaker 1: what it smells like.
39:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want. He probably tell me I needed to
39:29
Speaker 3: be if he tasted in my.
39:33
Speaker 1: Peet, you're pregnant upper puss there. It needs to be lobotomized.
39:38
Speaker 1: I think so.
39:42
Speaker 3: I do think, even though we're making a joke of it,
39:45
Speaker 3: that the bio system could have Well.
39:48
Speaker 1: It's like I was telling you earlier tonight, when you
39:53
Speaker 1: look at the modern day understanding of the biome system,
39:56
Speaker 1: the gut biome, the neurons that aren't just in your brain,
40:00
Speaker 1: that they're in your abdomen. A lot of this has
40:04
Speaker 1: a lot to do with like autism and other things. One,
40:09
Speaker 1: so they had an understanding. And from what you're telling me,
40:12
Speaker 1: And it's so funny that in all the research I
40:15
Speaker 1: did on Hippocrates, I was never laid back or laid back.
40:18
Speaker 1: I was never led back to ancient China.
40:21
Speaker 3: So but that's what they were doing with the acupuncture
40:24
Speaker 3: is like they were damining the fluids.
40:27
Speaker 1: Ancient Chinese medicine is practiced in all ways today, like even.
40:31
Speaker 3: Ancient Chinese medicine that somebody recommended about turning a breach baby.
40:38
Speaker 1: Yes, So my son's mom had some difficulties at the
40:43
Speaker 1: end of the pregnancy, which led her to the hospital
40:45
Speaker 1: where they gave her an ultrasound that she hadn't had
40:48
Speaker 1: one since twenty weeks, and they saw that my son
40:51
Speaker 1: was breach. So they were deciding what to do about it.
40:55
Speaker 1: They can't do a delivery, they have to do a
40:58
Speaker 1: C section. And the oldest doctor, the oldest obie at
41:03
Speaker 1: this place, like this old white, crusty dude, said, I
41:08
Speaker 1: know that about this thing that works well over eighty
41:13
Speaker 1: percent of the time, and it's an ancient Chinese remedy.
41:16
Speaker 1: And he says, go to an acupuncturist, tell them what's
41:20
Speaker 1: going on. They'll give you this incense stick called Maxia,
41:26
Speaker 1: and you get it red hot and hold it right
41:28
Speaker 1: outside her big toe, each side of her big toe
41:32
Speaker 1: for like five minutes each and it's like burning her.
41:36
Speaker 1: But as soon as we started doing it, she could
41:40
Speaker 1: feel him start to turn, and within like a week
41:43
Speaker 1: he was fully you know, head down, facing the right way.
41:48
Speaker 1: So again, and they were they were ready to schedule
41:53
Speaker 1: a sea section over this and all we had to
41:55
Speaker 1: do was burn a little fucking woo woo incense. Shit.
41:58
Speaker 3: That's why I say a lot of these people are
42:02
Speaker 3: ripping off ancient Chinese medicine.
42:04
Speaker 1: They're ripping it off. I mean he even called it that. Yeah,
42:08
Speaker 1: Hippocrates may have been ripping it off, but this guy
42:11
Speaker 1: said this is an ancient Chinese remedy.
42:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm talking about Hippocrates because he's credited with the
42:17
Speaker 3: bile system.
42:18
Speaker 1: Or like Hypocrates. Yeah, hypocrite with.
42:21
Speaker 3: Titties, fucking phony tease.
42:24
Speaker 1: But yeah, I agree. It's always some affluent European person
42:31
Speaker 1: who gets the credit. I mean, he's like the Kurt
42:33
Speaker 1: Cobain of the you know, of the doctor's back.
42:37
Speaker 3: Does it make you want to get acupuncture? No, you
42:41
Speaker 3: don't have any ailments.
42:43
Speaker 1: You want to see if it fixes I mean, if
42:45
Speaker 1: it can cure my hernia.
42:47
Speaker 3: Well I doubt it. But you know who else got
42:51
Speaker 3: acupuncture and it really fixed them up?
42:54
Speaker 1: Are they them? Dexter in the news the Dog? No? Oh?
43:00
Speaker 3: In the new season?
43:01
Speaker 1: Oh Dexter. Yes he did get acupuncture. He was a
43:04
Speaker 1: little stiff from taking a chest shut. Spoiler alert for
43:07
Speaker 1: nobody who's caught.
43:08
Speaker 3: Up but if you're not caught up, you're not a
43:11
Speaker 3: true fan, because we'd be waiting for them episodes to drop.
43:15
Speaker 1: We're gonna watch the new one right after we get
43:17
Speaker 1: done recording. Yes, so happy they do sponsor the show.
43:20
Speaker 3: By the way, I would be down for a sponsored
43:23
Speaker 3: by Dexter.
43:24
Speaker 1: From Paramount Plus. How fucking dare you? They can Stephen
43:28
Speaker 1: Colbert because Trump said he's not funny.
43:31
Speaker 3: How about Persia, let's do it. You know anything about Persia?
43:37
Speaker 1: They have weird looking cats.
43:39
Speaker 3: Well, they also were not as advanced as some of
43:44
Speaker 3: the other civilizations we've talked about. They were under the
43:48
Speaker 3: assumption that everybody was possessed by the devil.
43:52
Speaker 1: Well, oh, that's more along your line of thinking.
43:55
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but I would I'm still on board with
43:59
Speaker 3: like the ancient Chinese view. It was like a little
44:02
Speaker 3: bit spiritual, little bit physical, you know what I mean?
44:06
Speaker 1: Pretty good e merging the two.
44:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the Persia is pretty much behind the times.
44:12
Speaker 3: They thought that it was evil spirits and that everybody's
44:15
Speaker 3: possessed by the devil. And to release these spirits they
44:18
Speaker 3: used trepidation, which is just drilling holes in people's skull
44:23
Speaker 3: and they said it would allow the spirits to leave
44:26
Speaker 3: the body. What are your thoughts on that.
44:30
Speaker 1: I think the trepanation is interesting and I actually have
44:34
Speaker 1: a little info on it because to me, it was
44:37
Speaker 1: like the stepping stone to the lobotomy.
44:40
Speaker 3: Well, it was the ancient lobotomy.
44:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. They didn't mess with the brain though. No, but
44:47
Speaker 1: if you drill yeah, like I said, this is like
44:50
Speaker 1: just the tip of the dick end. This isn't like
44:53
Speaker 1: full on lobotomy. This is yeah.
44:56
Speaker 3: But in some of these cultures that practiced trepidation, if
44:59
Speaker 3: they didn't have a way to drill a hole, they
45:01
Speaker 3: would just use a rock and scrape at your scalp
45:04
Speaker 3: and your skull until they made a bur hole. Does
45:08
Speaker 3: that sound I mean, does that sound fun to you?
45:15
Speaker 1: Uh? I don't think so. Trepening also known as trepanation, trepanation, trefening,
45:24
Speaker 1: or making a burhole with a rock if you ain't
45:28
Speaker 1: got nothing else. It says it derives from Old French
45:33
Speaker 1: and medieval Latin from Greece. Once again, they don't give
45:36
Speaker 1: the Persians their day. But this fucking went on for
45:42
Speaker 1: a long time. Yes it did. And there's a picture
45:46
Speaker 1: of a skull. I think it's kind of ironic that
45:53
Speaker 1: when you get a neuralin ink implanted in your brain,
45:56
Speaker 1: there's a robot that drills through your skull, stops just
46:01
Speaker 1: short of hitting your brain, and then they can insert
46:04
Speaker 1: the nanotech that forms the webs, connects all your neurons,
46:09
Speaker 1: or whatever the fuck that thing does. But it's interesting
46:13
Speaker 1: to me that Elon drills into people's skulls to save us,
46:16
Speaker 1: help us merge with the AI.
46:18
Speaker 3: It's like we've reverted back to ancient.
46:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've we've taken this technocratic leap, but still incorporating
46:27
Speaker 1: the old and you call it a birhole. And Elon
46:33
Speaker 1: has the boring company raebores into the earth.
46:38
Speaker 3: That that I actually want to talk about a little
46:41
Speaker 3: bit more after this next ancient culture, So leave that up.
46:51
Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're attributing trepanation to ancient China.
46:56
Speaker 3: Oh, they'll give them their spotlight with the negative stuff.
47:00
Speaker 3: But how about the bio system.
47:03
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and they're still not talking about persia at all.
47:10
Speaker 3: Well, good thing I did thorough research because they were
47:13
Speaker 3: definitely practicing it.
47:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta admit I heard about trepanation and then
47:18
Speaker 1: went right to Wikipedia.
47:21
Speaker 3: Did you really?
47:22
Speaker 1: Yeah?
47:23
Speaker 3: Well, the next culture that I have you might find interesting.
47:27
Speaker 3: Israel and the Hebrew dispera.
47:31
Speaker 1: Man, they haven't been getting any coverage in the press.
47:33
Speaker 3: Let's do it despara? Is it despara? Dispora? Yeah, dispora despara.
47:40
Speaker 1: Well, anyways, dyspora, it's spelled like dispora.
47:45
Speaker 3: I let's just say Israel and the hebrews okay uh.
47:51
Speaker 3: There are passages of the Old Testament that have been
47:55
Speaker 3: interpreted as describing mood disorders in figures, which is Job
48:01
Speaker 3: King Saul, and in the Psalms of David.
48:06
Speaker 1: I mean, these motherfuckers were literally hearing voices all the time.
48:10
Speaker 3: And in the Book of Daniel, King Nebukanesser is described
48:14
Speaker 3: as temporarily losing his sanity and eating grass and shit
48:19
Speaker 3: and thought he was a cow or something. And nobody
48:23
Speaker 3: so nobody really talks about mental illness in the Bible
48:28
Speaker 3: other than just demon possession. But I remember when I
48:33
Speaker 3: was little, there was even a song in Sunday School
48:35
Speaker 3: about King nebukan Nezer eating grass and shit and being
48:39
Speaker 3: a crazy motherfucker. So even in the Bible there is oh,
48:45
Speaker 3: and you know what, Job was a depressed asshole. But
48:49
Speaker 3: then again, his life was real shitty, so we can
48:53
Speaker 3: just imagine, but mental illness, yeah, I would say the Bible,
49:00
Speaker 3: nobody was doing any bio system or acupuncture. It was
49:05
Speaker 3: pretty much like the Persians.
49:08
Speaker 1: So yeah, prepanation basically is opening up the skull so
49:13
Speaker 1: that evil spirits can vacate the premises.
49:16
Speaker 3: I think they didn't practice that in the Old Testy.
49:20
Speaker 1: I mean maybe they did. I think they They're obsessed
49:24
Speaker 1: with circumcision and other things, but I mean in this
49:28
Speaker 1: it's talking about ways that you can do it. Rectangular intersecting, cuts, scraping,
49:35
Speaker 1: using utilizing an abrasive instrument such as flint.
49:41
Speaker 3: I told you they would.
49:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, circular grooving, boring and cutting by a circular trefen
49:47
Speaker 1: or a crown saw. Bur hole done by drilling several
49:50
Speaker 1: circle holes, and that's probably the more modern. If they're
49:53
Speaker 1: drilling closely to create a space and then cut chisel
49:57
Speaker 1: the bone between the hole.
49:59
Speaker 3: It was not a good day to be mentally ill
50:01
Speaker 3: in ancient history.
50:04
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it will You're right, never really got better.
50:09
Speaker 3: So general trends in ancient views, supernatural explanations, right, spirits, deities,
50:17
Speaker 3: God's demons, treatments were rituals, prayers, exorcisms, blood letting, and trephanation. Right,
50:30
Speaker 3: but before we get into some more of the medieval treatments,
50:35
Speaker 3: I just want to talk about the potential of positive
50:39
Speaker 3: outcomes of some of these treatments. Yes, they sowned barbaric
50:44
Speaker 3: to us now, but in a way, I almost feel
50:47
Speaker 3: like pharmaceuticals are potentially more toxic and dangerous than let's say,
50:52
Speaker 3: blood letting. Yeah, I know that sounds controversial, but could
50:58
Speaker 3: it be possible that Ane, we're curing more mental illness
51:02
Speaker 3: than we are now.
51:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would I was going to say
51:07
Speaker 1: this earlier, but I think now's a good time to say.
51:09
Speaker 1: I would say the darkest shit that has happened happened
51:14
Speaker 1: after we transitioned from this belief in strictly supernatural causes
51:21
Speaker 1: to today making it a more medical issue. I would say,
51:26
Speaker 1: after we switched to that collectively, that that's when the
51:31
Speaker 1: real dark shit started happening. I agree, Oh, yeah, you
51:35
Speaker 1: might end up with a couple holes in your skull,
51:38
Speaker 1: But think about.
51:38
Speaker 3: Something like blood letting. I know that sounds horrible, what
51:42
Speaker 3: if it was curing these people?
51:44
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that a lot of the under right,
51:48
Speaker 1: I would say a lot of the basic understanding of
51:52
Speaker 1: the way the human body works is probably closer to
51:56
Speaker 1: what we're doing these days. You're talking pharmaceuticals. Uh, I
52:01
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't want to get into it in
52:03
Speaker 1: this episode so much. But right, there's an industry built
52:09
Speaker 1: around mental illness, which you talked about, and there's a
52:11
Speaker 1: fetishization and normalization of being mentally ill anxiety, right, I mean, look,
52:22
Speaker 1: every fucking pop star now is expected to come out
52:26
Speaker 1: with some kind of disorder and face it head on,
52:32
Speaker 1: or look at some own Biles to get back to Bile.
52:37
Speaker 1: You know who she is, Yeah, the gymnast who queathed
52:42
Speaker 1: the chance away to perform in the Olympics because she
52:45
Speaker 1: was having a mental health date, which anyway, Yeah, I
52:50
Speaker 1: think that just lays the ground for some conversation in
52:53
Speaker 1: the next episode. But yeah, back to your point, it
52:57
Speaker 1: could very well be that the risks and the outcomes
53:03
Speaker 1: of ancient methods of treating or confronting mental illness may
53:07
Speaker 1: seem barbaric, but if you hold it up to what
53:11
Speaker 1: we're doing today, I don't think it really does.
53:14
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this. Let's just say you had
53:18
Speaker 3: a problem mental illness problem that we'll say, you're not
53:22
Speaker 3: all the way fucking mad hatter, but you have.
53:24
Speaker 1: To do we even need to pretend.
53:27
Speaker 3: Exactly, just be yourself. And you have two options. You
53:31
Speaker 3: can go to the ancient Egyptian clinic, the ancient Chinese clinic.
53:42
Speaker 3: You can go to a modern day Laurel Wood or
53:44
Speaker 3: whatever the fuck they're called, these insane camps for people therapy, whatever,
53:51
Speaker 3: Or you can be treated by a primary care physician
53:55
Speaker 3: that has some kind of contract with who were the
53:59
Speaker 3: ones who came up with They had the Dope Sick documentary,
54:04
Speaker 3: Purdue Purdue Family, So they got a you got a
54:08
Speaker 3: primary care physician with the contract with the Purdue pharmaceuticals,
54:13
Speaker 3: you got Laurel Wood encampment, ancient Chinese or ancient egypt Well,
54:19
Speaker 3: what are you gonna go with?
54:20
Speaker 1: If I want some opiates? Obviously I go with the
54:24
Speaker 1: Purdue link.
54:25
Speaker 3: But they also had antidepressants and they had yeah, I
54:29
Speaker 3: mean the big money and the big scandal came in
54:31
Speaker 3: the painkillers, but they had their fingers and all of it.
54:35
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, obviously I'm more of a holistic guy,
54:38
Speaker 1: and I don't think serotonin and dopamine are understood as
54:44
Speaker 1: well as they have claimed it is, and I think
54:49
Speaker 1: the crap shoot that has resulted in a lot of backlash,
54:55
Speaker 1: a lot of fucking what would you call it blowback
54:58
Speaker 1: with side effects that are indirect opposition to what they're
55:05
Speaker 1: trying to do as far as treating these things with pills.
55:09
Speaker 1: And then there's the talk therapy end of it, which
55:11
Speaker 1: are a lot.
55:12
Speaker 3: Of times the Laurel Wood Encampment.
55:14
Speaker 1: A lot of time does lead to the pharmaceutical line anyway,
55:18
Speaker 1: because they often are contracted with these people as well.
55:21
Speaker 1: We're just taught that that's the way to do it,
55:23
Speaker 1: and they believe it themselves.
55:24
Speaker 3: Addition, into these encampments where you have to stay for
55:28
Speaker 3: an extended period of time and installation and you get
55:33
Speaker 3: talk therapy. But out of those four, like which one?
55:38
Speaker 3: Who are you trusting?
55:39
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going ancient China all day. Yeah, same,
55:42
Speaker 1: give me some egg rolls on my way out the door.
55:44
Speaker 3: You know, they still have a better view on treating
55:49
Speaker 3: mental illness today in China than we do in the US.
55:52
Speaker 1: Well they better because they have a fucking whole population
55:56
Speaker 1: of subservient just fall in line because it's that or death.
56:03
Speaker 1: So they probably do have a large amount of mental illness.
56:07
Speaker 3: But they treat it differently than we do.
56:09
Speaker 1: How do they treat it currently?
56:11
Speaker 3: Well, it's less about the pharmaceuticals. I will tell you
56:15
Speaker 3: that it's not marketed to them the way it is
56:19
Speaker 3: in the US. There are literally commercials that we watch
56:23
Speaker 3: in between our Hulu shows. That's like, are you depressed?
56:26
Speaker 3: They don't have that in China.
56:28
Speaker 1: I pay for no commercials.
56:30
Speaker 3: But you know what I'm saying though, it's like it's
56:32
Speaker 3: marketed to us, like, if you're having a bad are
56:35
Speaker 3: you a little blue?
56:36
Speaker 1: Ask your doctor about after a lacreef with sauce. They
56:42
Speaker 1: don't have that. Well, it's only us in New Zealand
56:46
Speaker 1: who are allowed to advertise pharmaceuticals first of all, which
56:51
Speaker 1: is kind of random that it's New Zealand. I mean,
56:53
Speaker 1: I understand our culture and that saysn't surprise me at all.
56:56
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about the kiwis. They share
56:59
Speaker 1: work CONTs during COVID.
57:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, well fuck them.
57:03
Speaker 1: Everybody down and that sorry Drew missing other than you.
57:07
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that I think the ancients may, even
57:12
Speaker 3: though their treatments sound barbaric, may have had a better
57:15
Speaker 3: idea of how to deal with this than we do now.
57:18
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know another angle of it is
57:23
Speaker 1: the Egyptian model might look the most appealing because they
57:28
Speaker 1: don't jump right to intervention. They are like Jordan Peterson,
57:34
Speaker 1: like clean your room, twelve rules for living, go outside,
57:37
Speaker 1: go to a concert. Yeah, take some xenax. It worked
57:41
Speaker 1: out well for me. No. They they're really about like
57:45
Speaker 1: it's an environmental dysfunction that is leading to most of
57:49
Speaker 1: this melancholy. So they exhaust all possibilities before they go
57:53
Speaker 1: to some of these drastic measures. So how about I
57:57
Speaker 1: give you a hybrid. I'd like the Egyptian model where
58:00
Speaker 1: if they still think I'm crazy after I go to
58:02
Speaker 1: a concert and do a self portrait, then I can
58:06
Speaker 1: get the Chinese remedies.
58:08
Speaker 3: Hey, there you go.
58:10
Speaker 1: So I want a little miss mixing math.
58:12
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, well, and you know what about you. I
58:16
Speaker 3: I'll take what you just said.
58:18
Speaker 1: Hey you get copy me.
58:20
Speaker 3: Well it was a good it was a good idea.
58:22
Speaker 1: Okay, you can come with me to the So.
58:24
Speaker 3: Think that the Egyptians could have focused a just a
58:27
Speaker 3: little bit more like the like with ancient Chinese medicine
58:31
Speaker 3: on maybe like the acupuncture stuff, getting your organs figured out,
58:36
Speaker 3: your biosystem figured out, because you know, when you're sick,
58:40
Speaker 3: what do you do, Like when you blow in your
58:41
Speaker 3: tissue and you're like, oh, it's clear. At least I
58:44
Speaker 3: don't have an infection.
58:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, when that black when that black bile shit comes out?
58:48
Speaker 3: You've never seen black bile? Are they talking about shit?
58:52
Speaker 1: I guess because when sometimes when you get diarrhea, you
58:56
Speaker 1: get that real weird looking bile.
58:58
Speaker 3: Well, if you have blood in your stool, it can
59:01
Speaker 3: sometimes be black, you know, and yet your liver's messed up,
59:05
Speaker 3: or you have a blooded in.
59:06
Speaker 1: Your it's like a dark brown dead blood cell color,
59:09
Speaker 1: which could be interpreted as black. While sure they.
59:15
Speaker 3: They literally say look for black or bloody stools when
59:18
Speaker 3: you know, with some medical condition. Anyways, I do think
59:22
Speaker 3: there's a physical and mental aspect that needs to be addressed.
59:27
Speaker 3: But I do want to move on to medievil treatments.
59:30
Speaker 3: If you are if you're.
59:32
Speaker 1: Down medieval treatments.
59:36
Speaker 3: Starting with Europe, do you have any of.
59:40
Speaker 1: I've got a list of more modern not so modern,
59:45
Speaker 1: but way more modern than medieval. So if you want
59:48
Speaker 1: to take this one, and if I have any thing
59:52
Speaker 1: I saw I could, I could insert.
59:54
Speaker 3: Well, I would love your commentary on some of this,
59:57
Speaker 3: because Europe is really where this whole thing starts to
1:00:02
Speaker 3: reach a pinnacle of fucked up idness, because you know,
1:00:06
Speaker 3: they take all the cool stuff from all the other
1:00:08
Speaker 3: ancient cultures and to it they add torture to it.
1:00:13
Speaker 1: It's just because it's medieval. I just assume that's where
1:00:15
Speaker 1: we're going to basically do so because some of the
1:00:18
Speaker 1: ship that we're doing in more modern than I'm going
1:00:20
Speaker 1: to cover seems medieval. Well, I'm curious to see if
1:00:23
Speaker 1: there's any open.
1:00:25
Speaker 3: Clap or yeah, well so medieval treatments in Europe. Uh so.
1:00:31
Speaker 3: Conceptions of madness in the Middle Ages in Europe were
1:00:34
Speaker 3: a mixture of the divine, diabolical, magical, and transcendental. But
1:00:40
Speaker 3: they also use hippocrates theory of the four humors.
1:00:45
Speaker 1: Hey, you just said it was his theory. What are
1:00:46
Speaker 1: you doing?
1:00:47
Speaker 3: It's not right. They use the ancient Chinese theory of
1:00:51
Speaker 3: the yep. Black bio, yellow bioflm, and blood were UH
1:00:59
Speaker 3: used in injunction with faith healing in the Middle Ages
1:01:04
Speaker 3: touching hands. They also used UH treppening or whatever trepanation.
1:01:10
Speaker 3: The Jeff Dahmer treatment.
1:01:12
Speaker 1: It just depends on where you're looking. It's either treppin
1:01:14
Speaker 1: or trepin.
1:01:15
Speaker 3: They also used blood letting, whipping people to death, and burges.
1:01:22
Speaker 1: They're big on that.
1:01:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it was seen because the Middle Ages in
1:01:28
Speaker 3: Europe was predominantly Christian. It was seen as most likely
1:01:33
Speaker 3: being a spiritual issue. And so they would do the fasting,
1:01:38
Speaker 3: which can be beneficial, just saying fasting can be beneficial.
1:01:42
Speaker 3: But then they would use the whipping and then the trepidation.
1:01:46
Speaker 1: Is those whips like they used on Jesus with the little.
1:01:48
Speaker 3: The little cattails. Yeah, like in Da Vinci code. Yeah.
1:01:55
Speaker 3: So if none of those other treatments would work, the
1:01:58
Speaker 3: last ditch thing they would do is an ex So
1:02:02
Speaker 3: what are your thoughts on that?
1:02:04
Speaker 1: Well, at least they tried all other options before they
1:02:08
Speaker 1: called in the exorcist. I guess, get your cattail whipping.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: If that doesn't do it, call in fucking what's his
1:02:14
Speaker 1: name from the exorcist?
1:02:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, father O'Malley.
1:02:19
Speaker 1: Father O'Malley's here to exercise your dam. I don't know
1:02:25
Speaker 1: why whenever I say father O'Malley always comes after. It's
1:02:30
Speaker 1: just a part of who I am.
1:02:31
Speaker 3: So there was a dude named Bartholomew something.
1:02:35
Speaker 1: Or other, poor guy for follow me something or other.
1:02:39
Speaker 1: You think the kids made fun of him.
1:02:41
Speaker 3: This was in Europe, in the Middle Ages, and he
1:02:44
Speaker 3: comprised an encyclopedia. It's called something or other rectum and.
1:02:50
Speaker 1: I'm not in another rectum. Let's do this. They propeteb
1:02:55
Speaker 1: tyab is a ridom. It's not even a rectum, smartass,
1:03:00
Speaker 1: it's r e Are you in rerum?
1:03:03
Speaker 3: So it's an encyclopedia.
1:03:06
Speaker 1: It's really that you can call her rectum.
1:03:08
Speaker 3: It's a rect He wrote this rectum of mental illness, okay,
1:03:13
Speaker 3: And he distinguished between a natural born idiot that's what
1:03:18
Speaker 3: they were called, and uh a lunatic. And the term
1:03:24
Speaker 3: lunatic was applied to those with short periods of mental
1:03:28
Speaker 3: disorder temporary insanity, right, deriving from.
1:03:31
Speaker 1: Only when the moon came out.
1:03:34
Speaker 3: Well, the reason he used it is because in Roman
1:03:37
Speaker 3: mythology they would describe people as being moonstruck by the
1:03:43
Speaker 3: goddess Luna.
1:03:44
Speaker 1: Good movie with moonstruck? Is that? Sure? Yeah?
1:03:49
Speaker 3: But anyways, the theory was the influence of the moon.
1:03:54
Speaker 3: And he said these people with short term madness were
1:03:57
Speaker 3: lunatics and everybody else was just a natural born idiot.
1:04:03
Speaker 1: Good good distinguishment, which.
1:04:06
Speaker 3: Brings me to the episodes of mass dancing mania, which
1:04:10
Speaker 3: are reported from the Middle Ages.
1:04:13
Speaker 1: To talk about this recently on an episode.
1:04:16
Speaker 3: The Dancing Man, Yeah, well it's similar to they were
1:04:20
Speaker 3: referred to as lunatics.
1:04:21
Speaker 1: But this this thing, maybe it was a cult. It
1:04:24
Speaker 1: might have actually been a cult conspiracy episode.
1:04:26
Speaker 3: I think it was were we talking about this?
1:04:29
Speaker 1: It wasn't It wasn't us. It was Jacob and Jonathan
1:04:32
Speaker 1: Shout Out Boys. They talked about it. I'm pretty fucking sure.
1:04:37
Speaker 1: Maybe it was Sam Tripley. I don't remember, but this
1:04:40
Speaker 1: was like one of the Oh I came across this
1:04:43
Speaker 1: when we were doing our cult.
1:04:44
Speaker 3: Research the Dancing play. Yes, there was a laughing one too.
1:04:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you remember in Legion where.
1:04:53
Speaker 3: They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:04:58
Speaker 1: That was I think that was based on that.
1:05:00
Speaker 3: So, but what do you think about that there's dancing plagues,
1:05:03
Speaker 3: laughing plagues.
1:05:05
Speaker 1: I mean, well, I wasn't gonna do it in this episode,
1:05:07
Speaker 1: but I think collective insanity is something that is still.
1:05:10
Speaker 3: Rampant mass hysteria.
1:05:12
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but even just collective insanity before like, what's
1:05:16
Speaker 1: his ass? Robert Malone gave it a name that the
1:05:18
Speaker 1: CIA told him to say, mass psychotic delusion or whatever.
1:05:23
Speaker 3: I think anybody knows what the fuck was really going
1:05:25
Speaker 3: on though, with what the dancing plague?
1:05:28
Speaker 1: No, that's not mass hysteria. It's legion. It's like a contagion. Yes,
1:05:36
Speaker 1: like I mentally agree with you. It's like little girls
1:05:39
Speaker 1: becoming boys because everybody in there click did it? Yeah,
1:05:42
Speaker 1: but I heard about this and it's come up again
1:05:45
Speaker 1: in podcasts I've listened to. But yeah, I totally forgot
1:05:48
Speaker 1: about it till you mentioned it.
1:05:49
Speaker 3: Well, they call it mass delusion or mass hysteria, but
1:05:52
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody knows what the fuck was going on.
1:05:55
Speaker 1: Maybe they maybe they just felt like dancing.
1:05:58
Speaker 3: Well this this bartholomist said they were just lunatics.
1:06:05
Speaker 1: Botholomy is something or other coming in with the explanation
1:06:08
Speaker 1: the moon made them do the moon.
1:06:10
Speaker 3: Made him do it. But that's a little of an
1:06:12
Speaker 3: understanding they had about stuff.
1:06:13
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, when you get about it, maybe
1:06:15
Speaker 1: they all took ecstasy.
1:06:18
Speaker 3: They are were they seeing plagues in different parties?
1:06:21
Speaker 1: They could have been eaten sassafras, But there were.
1:06:24
Speaker 3: Dancing plgues with people who should have not even known
1:06:27
Speaker 3: about each other.
1:06:29
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I mean, you know how my mind works,
1:06:32
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like mass glitch in the simulation, for some reason,
1:06:39
Speaker 1: groups of people all over the world just feel like dancing.
1:06:44
Speaker 3: Really, that's your explanation, Well, what's yours? Mine is, uh,
1:06:51
Speaker 3: I'm just exploring.
1:06:53
Speaker 1: I'm not dying on that hill.
1:06:55
Speaker 3: Mine is that they've been conducting experiments on small civilizations
1:07:00
Speaker 3: people for longer than we day, the elusive.
1:07:03
Speaker 1: Day, like the secret societies, the old people. I mean,
1:07:09
Speaker 1: I'm not obviously I'm not above that line of reasoning either.
1:07:13
Speaker 1: I think that that that's just as probable as the
1:07:18
Speaker 1: simulation glitch.
1:07:21
Speaker 3: But so that was just one form of lunacy. Obviously,
1:07:25
Speaker 3: the lunatics could have been anything like a random outburst,
1:07:31
Speaker 3: the random you know whatever. They'd be like, oh, they're
1:07:34
Speaker 3: a lunatic whatever. So the care of these natural born idiots,
1:07:40
Speaker 3: I'm guessing that that means retarded people and uh, people
1:07:46
Speaker 3: who had temporary madness, lounies. They were under the responsibility
1:07:52
Speaker 3: of their family because at the time there was nothing
1:07:55
Speaker 3: to do with these people. Your family had to take
1:07:58
Speaker 3: care of you. So there were like spiritual and visionary
1:08:09
Speaker 3: insights some bullshit like this, and hallucinations that these people
1:08:16
Speaker 3: were having. They were still thinking it was like a
1:08:19
Speaker 3: spiritual thing that these loonies and whatever they were trying
1:08:25
Speaker 3: to gain some type of insight, and the families were
1:08:28
Speaker 3: having to take care of them.
1:08:30
Speaker 1: It started to.
1:08:31
Speaker 3: Switch with the witch hunts because they decided that they
1:08:36
Speaker 3: could just kill people that were loonies and they didn't
1:08:39
Speaker 3: need to gain any spiritual insight from them, that it
1:08:42
Speaker 3: would be much easier for all of them to just die.
1:08:46
Speaker 1: I mean, that is, as history breathes in and out,
1:08:52
Speaker 1: a solution that has come up again time and time.
1:08:55
Speaker 3: Yeah. So at first it was like their families were
1:08:58
Speaker 3: taking care of them. They were trying to figure out
1:08:59
Speaker 3: what was wrong with them, they were trying to get
1:09:01
Speaker 3: some kind of spiritual insight. Then the witch hunts came about, and.
1:09:05
Speaker 1: Then they went to purge. Yeah.
1:09:07
Speaker 3: They were like, oh you're a witch, well we'll just
1:09:10
Speaker 3: drowned you. Oh you're a luney, well we'll just drowned you,
1:09:13
Speaker 3: burn you alive. Whatever, Just trying to basically take out
1:09:18
Speaker 3: the trash, and when that didn't work, they would take
1:09:24
Speaker 3: the lunatics and the idiots or whatever they were calling
1:09:27
Speaker 3: them to workhouses and poor houses and sometimes to these
1:09:34
Speaker 3: quote unquote new private mad houses. And so this is
1:09:39
Speaker 3: where the whole mad house thing became.
1:09:42
Speaker 1: It's a mad house. Yeah, I'm glad we're switching into
1:09:47
Speaker 1: this area because I think the story really gets interesting.
1:09:51
Speaker 3: With the mad houses. Yeah, me too, Right, so it
1:09:55
Speaker 3: goes witch hunt. Let's kill them all, just kidding. We
1:09:58
Speaker 3: can't kill all of them.
1:10:00
Speaker 1: S built filing cabinets for this.
1:10:01
Speaker 3: Let's build. And also if they were what they were
1:10:04
Speaker 3: referred to as a natural born idiot, they could still
1:10:07
Speaker 3: work in the workhouses and they could get some use
1:10:10
Speaker 3: out of them or in the poorhouses. And they were
1:10:13
Speaker 3: having these like mentally disabled people like building stuff around
1:10:20
Speaker 3: town and like not paying them.
1:10:22
Speaker 1: And let explain some construction.
1:10:25
Speaker 3: Well, no, think about it, Like what if somebody was
1:10:27
Speaker 3: just like barely like they were forced gup, you could
1:10:31
Speaker 3: get them a fucking job doing stuff.
1:10:33
Speaker 1: Or because you told me to drill, sergeant.
1:10:37
Speaker 3: So by the mid nineteenth century, there would be one
1:10:42
Speaker 3: hundred to five hundred inmates, as they called them, in
1:10:45
Speaker 3: each madhouse.
1:10:47
Speaker 1: Well that's an accurate description what inmates.
1:10:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, they weren't called patients. They weren't called they were
1:10:55
Speaker 3: called inmates. You know. So by the mid nineteen cent.
1:10:58
Speaker 1: They hadn't really cleaned up up the language yet, like.
1:11:01
Speaker 3: We do that. Yeah, well they're still in mass right.
1:11:04
Speaker 1: This is an in treatment facility. It is not a prison,
1:11:08
Speaker 1: even though prisons are way fucking better to go to.
1:11:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know a lot of cases. So the development
1:11:16
Speaker 3: of this network of madhouses has been linked to new capitalists,
1:11:22
Speaker 3: social relations, and a service economy that meant families were of.
1:11:29
Speaker 1: That explains McDonald's. What McDonald's. There's always a retard sweeping
1:11:35
Speaker 1: the floor at McDonald's.
1:11:36
Speaker 3: They retards at goodwill and all.
1:11:39
Speaker 1: Kinds of good will too.
1:11:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that would be their workhouse in the mid.
1:11:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like there's still places there. Then,
1:11:51
Speaker 1: well what do you think they're making well?
1:11:53
Speaker 3: And anyways, these these mad houses meant families were off
1:11:58
Speaker 3: the hook and not responsible for having to look after these.
1:12:03
Speaker 1: That's why cabinets. Yeah, so mad.
1:12:09
Speaker 3: Madness and the whole like mad houses thing suddenly became
1:12:13
Speaker 3: a trend and was commonly depicted in literary works, like
1:12:19
Speaker 3: with Shakespeare. It was kind of a fad like how
1:12:23
Speaker 3: it is now like everybody's got some type of mental illness.
1:12:26
Speaker 3: Everybody's like putting it out there. Like they were literally
1:12:31
Speaker 3: commercializing the mad house mid nineteenth century. And this is when,
1:12:38
Speaker 3: in my opinion, it went completely from therapeutic spiritualism possible
1:12:44
Speaker 3: you know, trepening and blood letting and prayers and all that.
1:12:50
Speaker 3: Forget it. When they developed the concept of the mad house,
1:12:54
Speaker 3: it went strictly to medicine. So this is where you
1:12:59
Speaker 3: can jump in how whenever you.
1:13:01
Speaker 1: Well, I'm kind of sad to say that we've passed
1:13:04
Speaker 1: the opportunity for me to talk about the wondering womb.
1:13:07
Speaker 1: What's the wondering Well, maybe we'll fit it in because yes,
1:13:12
Speaker 1: because I want to think like hysteria will come up.
1:13:16
Speaker 1: It does, okay, but we'll slip this article in there.
1:13:20
Speaker 1: But I have a lot on the mad house institution
1:13:24
Speaker 1: and uh thing, and I want to start here because
1:13:29
Speaker 1: even though when we think of these places today, we're
1:13:33
Speaker 1: not thinking of like a bright, cheery place, you have
1:13:36
Speaker 1: experiences with these places. Yes, I do you get triggered
1:13:39
Speaker 1: by you know?
1:13:42
Speaker 3: Yeah?
1:13:43
Speaker 1: These and two of American's poor story and like one
1:13:50
Speaker 1: flew over the Cuckoo's nest. So we'll talk about all
1:13:52
Speaker 1: of that in episode three. So don't think we're gonna
1:13:55
Speaker 1: leave pop culture out of this. But I want to
1:13:58
Speaker 1: start with an article about the first documented mental institution,
1:14:04
Speaker 1: as we will call them, but they called it a
1:14:06
Speaker 1: psychiatric word in the article.
1:14:08
Speaker 3: Is this a mad house?
1:14:10
Speaker 1: This is a psychiatric word, the first one on record,
1:14:14
Speaker 1: and it was in of all places, Muslim territory in
1:14:19
Speaker 1: Baghdad ninth century AD. So we're going way back. And
1:14:25
Speaker 1: you'll be surprised by this article because I heard that
1:14:28
Speaker 1: the first mental institution was in Baghdad in ninth century
1:14:33
Speaker 1: a D. And my curiosity was piqued, so I looked
1:14:37
Speaker 1: into it. And this is an article from the American
1:14:42
Speaker 1: Journal of Psychiatry Residence Journal. That's a little that's a
1:14:48
Speaker 1: little redundant American Journal of Psychiatry Residence Journal. The title
1:14:54
Speaker 1: of the article is Mohammad ibbin Zachariah al Razzi in
1:14:59
Speaker 1: the first psychiatric word. Mohammed ibn Zachariah al Razzi. We're
1:15:04
Speaker 1: gonna have to shorten that. Let us call him moy
1:15:08
Speaker 1: was one of the most well known and respected physicians
1:15:11
Speaker 1: during the ninth century AD. Because of his revolutionary contributions
1:15:15
Speaker 1: to medicine and psychiatry, mo influenced several medical fields, including pharmacology, pediatrics, neurology,
1:15:24
Speaker 1: psychosomatic medicine, and medical ethics. He purified alcohol ethanol and
1:15:31
Speaker 1: pioneered its use in medicine. I mean this is ninth
1:15:34
Speaker 1: century AD. He rejected the notion of the mind body
1:15:39
Speaker 1: dichotomy and considered mental health and self esteem as significant
1:15:43
Speaker 1: factors that affect a person's health and well being. With
1:15:47
Speaker 1: the idea of sound mind in a healthy body, he
1:15:50
Speaker 1: was able to help many of his patients to attain
1:15:53
Speaker 1: complete health. He was one of the first known physicians
1:15:57
Speaker 1: to describe the idea of psychotherapy. He used psychotherapy in
1:16:02
Speaker 1: a primitive but dynamic form in his practice. Muh was
1:16:06
Speaker 1: born in eight sixty five AD in Al Ray, which
1:16:09
Speaker 1: is located located outside Tehran. During his youth, he moved
1:16:13
Speaker 1: to Baghdad, where he undertook medical studies and later practiced
1:16:17
Speaker 1: at one of the local hospitals. The governor of Ray,
1:16:20
Speaker 1: Monsieur ebin Eshak, later appointed him to head to hospital
1:16:25
Speaker 1: in Baghdad. Mul wrote two hundred and thirty seven books
1:16:28
Speaker 1: in his lifetime. Thirty six of which are still available today.
1:16:31
Speaker 1: The most popular of his writings, Liber Continents, is considered
1:16:36
Speaker 1: a medical encyclopedia. His books offered explanations for various mental
1:16:40
Speaker 1: illnesses that plague society society during the tenth century. These
1:16:44
Speaker 1: books also outlined symptoms and definitions, as well as differential
1:16:48
Speaker 1: diagnoses and treatments for debt.
1:16:50
Speaker 3: This was in the tenth century. Yeah, so this was
1:16:55
Speaker 3: even before what I got.
1:16:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, this goes way back, which is why I was
1:16:59
Speaker 1: compared held by it, because obviously this model did come back,
1:17:02
Speaker 1: but it was already here and left. While working as
1:17:07
Speaker 1: the director of hospital in Baghdad, Mo introduced the concept
1:17:10
Speaker 1: of psychiatric words as a place to care for patients
1:17:13
Speaker 1: with mental illness. According to his views, mental disorders should
1:17:18
Speaker 1: be considered and treated as medical conditions. He conducted very
1:17:22
Speaker 1: detailed clinical observations of patients with psychiatric conditions and provided
1:17:26
Speaker 1: treatment with diet, medication, occupational therapy, aroma therapy, baths, and
1:17:32
Speaker 1: music therapy. Additionally, he practiced an early form of cognitive
1:17:36
Speaker 1: therapy for obsessive behavior. Mo described depression as a melancholic,
1:17:43
Speaker 1: obsessive compulsive disorder which is triggered as a result of
1:17:47
Speaker 1: changes of blood flow in the brain. He stated that
1:17:50
Speaker 1: physicians should always try to convince their patients of the
1:17:53
Speaker 1: possibility of improvement in their condition, as well as hope
1:17:56
Speaker 1: in the effectiveness of treatment. As part of this charge planning,
1:18:00
Speaker 1: patients were given a sum of money to help with
1:18:02
Speaker 1: their immediate needs and their transition back into society. To
1:18:06
Speaker 1: our knowledge, this is the first recorded reference to psychiatric aftercare.
1:18:11
Speaker 1: Moe believed that physicians should be modest, soft spoken, and
1:18:14
Speaker 1: gentle when communicating with their patients to ease the anxiety
1:18:18
Speaker 1: of receiving unfavorable views and unfavorable news. He stressed the
1:18:23
Speaker 1: importance of communicating with patients on a personal level, rather
1:18:26
Speaker 1: than simply making them aware of their illness. He used
1:18:29
Speaker 1: a cheerful countenance and encouraged words to instill in patients
1:18:33
Speaker 1: the hope of recovery. Both psychiatric residents and trainees alike
1:18:37
Speaker 1: can learn from Moe's approach to serving patients with compassion
1:18:40
Speaker 1: and an understanding. He is a valuable source of inspiration
1:18:44
Speaker 1: from the history of psychiatry with his original work and
1:18:48
Speaker 1: distinct style.
1:18:51
Speaker 3: Well, that's nothing like what I was going to talk about.
1:18:54
Speaker 1: No, I just wanted to insert this because we're talking
1:18:59
Speaker 1: about the first documented psychiatric word slash institutions.
1:19:05
Speaker 3: He's going off of like what we talked about with
1:19:08
Speaker 3: the Egyptians and the Chinese, like taking care of people.
1:19:13
Speaker 1: And he's even before that move into like an intreatment,
1:19:18
Speaker 1: just before.
1:19:19
Speaker 3: The move into what I was going to bring.
1:19:22
Speaker 1: Up, well nineteen but yeah, what I'm saying, and I
1:19:25
Speaker 1: think I think it's important that we show a success
1:19:28
Speaker 1: from well, yeah, that fucking long ago, because.
1:19:31
Speaker 3: That you were about to read the Horrides.
1:19:33
Speaker 1: Thing when I and I'll just say this is my
1:19:36
Speaker 1: preconceived bias. When I saw bag Dad ninth century a D.
1:19:41
Speaker 1: I was expecting torture chambers, which is more for the Yeah,
1:19:46
Speaker 1: come up, and that's more akin to what we have today.
1:19:49
Speaker 1: Just to show you that fucking what, nine hundred years
1:19:54
Speaker 1: after Christ they had this shit figured out in the
1:19:57
Speaker 1: fucking Middle East.
1:19:59
Speaker 3: Well, that's very interesting and.
1:20:00
Speaker 1: We're still working our way back to that. I mean,
1:20:02
Speaker 1: he even had like a government social program for these
1:20:05
Speaker 1: people when they let them give them money.
1:20:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, but why do you think if that was if
1:20:12
Speaker 3: that happened in the tenth century, when we get to
1:20:16
Speaker 3: the nineteenth century, it's a complete contrast.
1:20:20
Speaker 1: Well, I'll just sum it up with the last paragraph.
1:20:25
Speaker 1: Whoever wrote this article said both psychiatric residents and trainees
1:20:29
Speaker 1: alike can learn from his approach to serving patients with
1:20:33
Speaker 1: compassion and understanding, and that was not present in these
1:20:38
Speaker 1: institutions that we're going to get into today. And I mean,
1:20:40
Speaker 1: I think that contributing factors are a mile high. The
1:20:45
Speaker 1: economy of the time, the mental attitude of.
1:20:48
Speaker 3: Took a nose dive after that as a society.
1:20:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, let's get into it, because I have
1:20:56
Speaker 1: an article. It's not even an article, it's just basically
1:20:59
Speaker 1: a chart that shows when this shit came to America.
1:21:02
Speaker 1: But I think you're gonna start talking about like kind
1:21:05
Speaker 1: of Europe and shit first, right with the madhouses.
1:21:08
Speaker 3: Well, because well, let me just start with this. What
1:21:14
Speaker 3: that article you just read that was the tenth century.
1:21:18
Speaker 3: Right by the time we get to the nineteenth century,
1:21:21
Speaker 3: we've taken a fucking nosedive into the abyss.
1:21:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking a thousand years. I'm just saying, like,
1:21:29
Speaker 1: we could have figured, we could.
1:21:31
Speaker 3: Have had the chance to figure this out, and we
1:21:34
Speaker 3: just always fuck ourselves.
1:21:36
Speaker 1: The compassion and the understanding and the model is absent.
1:21:40
Speaker 3: So by the uh nineteenth century, these public asylums, as
1:21:49
Speaker 3: they were called, were absolutely barbaric. The most popular, most
1:21:55
Speaker 3: notable one is called bedlam. Had you ever heard of it?
1:21:59
Speaker 1: Yeah?
1:22:01
Speaker 3: So they would actually let spectators pay a penny to
1:22:07
Speaker 3: watch inmates be tortured as some form of entertainment.
1:22:13
Speaker 1: Not shocked.
1:22:14
Speaker 3: I'm gonna dive a little bit further into that when
1:22:16
Speaker 3: we get to talking about the asylums themselves. But so
1:22:21
Speaker 3: the nineteenth century, in the context of industrialation, industrialization, and
1:22:29
Speaker 3: population growth, saw a massive expansion of the number and
1:22:34
Speaker 3: size of insane asylums in every Western country, in a
1:22:39
Speaker 3: process called the Great Confinement or the Asylum Era. So
1:22:46
Speaker 3: that's when it came to the US. Is that what
1:22:49
Speaker 3: you got?
1:22:50
Speaker 1: I have seventeen fifty two?
1:22:53
Speaker 3: So is that in the nineteenth century.
1:22:57
Speaker 1: Nineteenth century would be like eighteen hundreds.
1:23:03
Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, So that's what I got was the Asylum era.
1:23:10
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the Asylum era is eighteen ninety, so we're
1:23:18
Speaker 1: talking ten years before the nineteenth or the Yeah, let
1:23:24
Speaker 1: me just break this down because if we're moving into
1:23:26
Speaker 1: America now, which it looks like we are on your notes. Yes,
1:23:33
Speaker 1: so this is from the National Library of Medicine. It
1:23:36
Speaker 1: is a dot gov website, so do with that with
1:23:39
Speaker 1: what you will. This is the timeline of early psychiatric
1:23:44
Speaker 1: hospitals and asylums. The mentally ill and early America communities
1:23:50
Speaker 1: were generally cared for by family members. However, in severe
1:23:53
Speaker 1: cases they sometimes ended up in almshouses or jails. Because
1:23:59
Speaker 1: mental illness was generally thought to be caused by a
1:24:02
Speaker 1: moral or spiritual failing, punishment and shame were often handed
1:24:05
Speaker 1: down to the menially ill and sometimes their families as well.
1:24:08
Speaker 1: As the population grew in certain areas became more densely settled,
1:24:12
Speaker 1: mental illness became one of the number became one of
1:24:16
Speaker 1: a number of social issues for which community institutions were
1:24:19
Speaker 1: created in order to handle the needs of individuals collectively.
1:24:23
Speaker 1: So we have seventeen fifty two in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The
1:24:29
Speaker 1: Quakers in Philly were the first in America to make
1:24:32
Speaker 1: an organized effort to care for the menially ill. The
1:24:35
Speaker 1: newly opened Pennsylvania Hospital in Philly provided rooms in the basement,
1:24:39
Speaker 1: complete with shackles attached to the walls, to house a
1:24:42
Speaker 1: small number of mentally ill patients. Within a year or two,
1:24:46
Speaker 1: the Press for admissions required additional space, and award was
1:24:49
Speaker 1: opened beside the hospital. Eventually, a new Pennsylvania hospital for
1:24:54
Speaker 1: the insane was opened in a suburb in eighteen fifty
1:24:57
Speaker 1: six and remained opened under different names until nineteen ninety eight.
1:25:02
Speaker 1: Then we moved to seventeen seventy three Williamsburg, Virginia, to
1:25:06
Speaker 1: deal with mentally disturbed people who were causing problems in
1:25:09
Speaker 1: the community. The Virginia legislature provided funds to build a
1:25:13
Speaker 1: small hospital in Williamsburg. Over the years, the hospital grew
1:25:16
Speaker 1: in size as needs arose, but remained within the historic
1:25:19
Speaker 1: area of the city until the mid twentieth century, when
1:25:22
Speaker 1: a new hospital was built in a suburb. Today it
1:25:26
Speaker 1: is the Eastern State Hospital.
1:25:28
Speaker 3: It's still open. Yeah, I bet it's haunted.
1:25:31
Speaker 1: Seventeen ninety two in New York, New York, the New
1:25:35
Speaker 1: York Hospital opened a ward for curable insane patients. In
1:25:39
Speaker 1: eighteen oh eight, a free standing medical facility was built
1:25:42
Speaker 1: nearby for the humane treatment of the mentally ill, and
1:25:44
Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty one, a larger facility called the blooming
1:25:47
Speaker 1: Dell Asylum was built in in what is now the
1:25:50
Speaker 1: Upper West Side the Uppavast Side in eighteen ninety four,
1:25:55
Speaker 1: it has moved further away to the suburb of White
1:25:57
Speaker 1: Plains and it is currently under opper is the Paine
1:26:01
Speaker 1: Whitney Westchester Hospital, a division of the New York Hospital
1:26:06
Speaker 1: Cornell Whale Medical Center.
1:26:09
Speaker 3: All of these places were, despite the description, completely brutal
1:26:17
Speaker 3: to this.
1:26:17
Speaker 1: Well, it didn't hold back. In the Philadelphia well, they.
1:26:22
Speaker 3: All were doing it.
1:26:24
Speaker 1: It was complete with shackles attached to the walls.
1:26:27
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:26:28
Speaker 1: Eighteen seventeen, Philadelphia were going back to Philly. In Philadelphia,
1:26:33
Speaker 1: the Asylum for the Relief of Persons Deprived of the
1:26:36
Speaker 1: use of their reason. They really worded up, yeah, was
1:26:40
Speaker 1: opened under Quaker auspices as a private mental hospitals. It
1:26:44
Speaker 1: continues to serve this function to this day as the
1:26:47
Speaker 1: Friends Hospital. Come hang out with your friends. You can
1:26:51
Speaker 1: have a warm glass of shit. The hell app eighteen
1:26:54
Speaker 1: twenty four, Julia's home state of Lexington, Kentucky. The Eastern
1:27:00
Speaker 1: Don a tick asylum that's a little less worthy than
1:27:02
Speaker 1: the last one, was opened in Lexington, KY as the
1:27:08
Speaker 1: first mental institution west of the Appalachians. It still operates
1:27:12
Speaker 1: today under the name Eastern State Hospital. And then we
1:27:16
Speaker 1: go to eighteen ninety with a broad sweeping statement all
1:27:20
Speaker 1: across America. By eighteen ninety, every state had built one
1:27:23
Speaker 1: or more publicly supported mental hospitals, which all expanded in
1:27:27
Speaker 1: size as the country's population increased. By mid twentieth century,
1:27:32
Speaker 1: the hospitals housed over half a million patients, but began
1:27:36
Speaker 1: to diminish in a size as new methods of treatment
1:27:40
Speaker 1: became available.
1:27:41
Speaker 3: Because this is what I'm talking about with the asylum
1:27:44
Speaker 3: era stuff. They were beating people, whipping them, they were
1:27:51
Speaker 3: chaining them up, they were starving them. I mean, I
1:27:55
Speaker 3: know that article made it just sound like, Oh, they
1:27:58
Speaker 3: opened hospitals and they were they were awful to those people. Yeah.
1:28:03
Speaker 1: And then if we get into some of the reasons
1:28:05
Speaker 1: that you could have to go to one of these places,
1:28:07
Speaker 1: it starts to ga even more bleak.
1:28:10
Speaker 3: Uh Yeah, like being.
1:28:12
Speaker 1: Gay, having a father who's an alcoholic, being black, Yeah, Kanye.
1:28:22
Speaker 3: But actually it's during this era, thence the asylum era
1:28:27
Speaker 3: eighteen seventy six to eighteen eighty, that the notion of
1:28:33
Speaker 3: female hysteria became popularized. Are you familiar with female hysteria
1:28:41
Speaker 3: and its treatment?
1:28:44
Speaker 1: Do you have any answer that?
1:28:45
Speaker 3: Honestly, no, let me just say what it is, because
1:28:49
Speaker 3: I think I told you already. But so, the hysteria
1:28:55
Speaker 3: was a medical diagnosis given to women exhibiting a wide
1:29:00
Speaker 3: range of symptoms, including anxiety, depression, moods, wings, headaches, and
1:29:05
Speaker 3: even fainting spells anxiety. The term itself derived from the
1:29:13
Speaker 3: Greek word hysteria, meaning uterus. Uh. It was believed to
1:29:21
Speaker 3: be linked to a woman's reproductive system and its wandering imbalances.
1:29:28
Speaker 1: And you said you didn't have this in your notes. No,
1:29:33
Speaker 1: this is wandering. Yeah, yeah, you just said the uterus
1:29:36
Speaker 1: and it's wandering in quotes or imbalances. So you know
1:29:40
Speaker 1: about the wandering uterus?
1:29:42
Speaker 3: Is it the same?
1:29:44
Speaker 1: Did you read that right there? It is believed to
1:29:47
Speaker 1: be linked to a woman's reproductive system, the uterus, and
1:29:52
Speaker 1: it's wandering or imbalances. Yes, so I have the wandering.
1:29:56
Speaker 3: But what you're talking about You said it was ancient
1:29:59
Speaker 3: Egypt or something.
1:30:00
Speaker 1: No, I said that Hippocrates talked about it. Well, this
1:30:05
Speaker 1: was way act so, but they did look into it
1:30:09
Speaker 1: back then, and I'll give an overview. I mean I
1:30:12
Speaker 1: could pull up the article, but it's kind of seered
1:30:14
Speaker 1: into my brain.
1:30:15
Speaker 3: God.
1:30:16
Speaker 1: Well, back in Hippocrates days. They fucking talked about how
1:30:22
Speaker 1: everybody thought the uterus was like a living bean inside
1:30:27
Speaker 1: of another bean, and they thought it was like an
1:30:30
Speaker 1: animal that roamed and it was enticed by certain smells.
1:30:35
Speaker 1: So like an overact of person's uterus was said to
1:30:38
Speaker 1: have wondered too high, and they would entice it with
1:30:41
Speaker 1: pleasant smells to get it back into the upper puss area.
1:30:45
Speaker 1: And then oh my, if a woman was lethargic or
1:30:49
Speaker 1: you know, not following orders, her uterus was said to
1:30:52
Speaker 1: have wandered too low, so they'd put the enticing smells
1:30:56
Speaker 1: down by the puss and try to get it come
1:31:00
Speaker 1: back up. So this wondering uterus thing did originate a
1:31:06
Speaker 1: long time ago, but they did bring it back.
1:31:10
Speaker 3: Why does everybody think?
1:31:12
Speaker 1: So that makes more sense about what you're about to
1:31:14
Speaker 1: talk about. It's also like that theovont coult we were
1:31:17
Speaker 1: talking about, what where they would like give them massages
1:31:22
Speaker 1: and then give him a finger finish.
1:31:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, what is all these ancient cultures And even
1:31:29
Speaker 3: in the eighteen eighties, it's like, oh, women are so crazy.
1:31:32
Speaker 3: It's they're uterine.
1:31:35
Speaker 1: I mean, it is the missing link.
1:31:38
Speaker 3: But so the treatment for the female hysteria was a
1:31:43
Speaker 3: pelvic massage.
1:31:45
Speaker 1: A front rub, hashtrag, what's his name?
1:31:50
Speaker 3: There is something I want to talk about with this.
1:31:53
Speaker 3: It was part of a conversation we were having.
1:31:55
Speaker 1: But you need a front rub?
1:31:57
Speaker 3: No but so. Victorian doctors, sometimes assisted by midwives, performed
1:32:02
Speaker 3: manual stimulation of female patients genitals to induce a hysterical paroxysm,
1:32:11
Speaker 3: which is now recognized as an orgasm.
1:32:13
Speaker 1: I prefer the term hysterical parocism over female orgasm. That's
1:32:20
Speaker 1: a myth.
1:32:23
Speaker 3: So this was supposed to alleviate hysteria, but as demand
1:32:28
Speaker 3: for this treatment increase, doctors reportedly grew tired and developed
1:32:33
Speaker 3: early vibrating devices to assist in the process. And these
1:32:38
Speaker 3: devices were initially marketed as medical tools before transitioning to
1:32:43
Speaker 3: personal use and so out of the asylum era, one
1:32:47
Speaker 3: good thing came out of it, So fellers, the vibrator.
1:32:52
Speaker 1: If you come home late at night after working your
1:32:55
Speaker 1: ass off for ten days solid and you see your
1:32:59
Speaker 1: ladies vibrator plugged in, that bitch is crazy.
1:33:03
Speaker 3: It's a medical device.
1:33:04
Speaker 1: Hysteria.
1:33:05
Speaker 3: I have hysteria.
1:33:07
Speaker 1: Fucking what's it called self medication?
1:33:10
Speaker 3: You should feel sorry for me that I have a
1:33:13
Speaker 3: medical problem.
1:33:14
Speaker 1: I was talking hypothetical. Did that never happened to us?
1:33:17
Speaker 3: Right, you're right, that never happened. But you remember what
1:33:22
Speaker 3: you said? You said, can you imagine what the Victorian
1:33:28
Speaker 3: era puss smelled like?
1:33:30
Speaker 1: That had nothing to do with this, Yes, it was.
1:33:33
Speaker 3: You said, can you imagine? Oh no, you said, the
1:33:36
Speaker 3: reason that they had hysteria is because in the Victorian
1:33:39
Speaker 3: era their husbands were too pump chumps and they weren't
1:33:43
Speaker 3: going down on them because Victorian puss smelled Bud.
1:33:47
Speaker 1: I think you're tying a lot of different parts of
1:33:49
Speaker 1: conversations together.
1:33:50
Speaker 3: Are you sure. I'm pretty sure. It's when we were talking,
1:33:53
Speaker 3: I said, have you ever heard about I.
1:33:56
Speaker 1: Said that the husbands were too pump chumps.
1:34:00
Speaker 3: That's why they had hysteria.
1:34:02
Speaker 1: That's why they never got off. Yeah, hysteria could just
1:34:06
Speaker 1: be labeled sexual or exprustration sctual frustration. They didn't have
1:34:12
Speaker 1: the vibrating hogs back then. You had to use like
1:34:16
Speaker 1: a stick, go find a perfectly shaped carrot in.
1:34:20
Speaker 3: The fridge, masturbated like, just as.
1:34:24
Speaker 1: Long as humans have been around, masturbation has been a thing.
1:34:27
Speaker 1: Male masturbation, though all across the board, female male them's
1:34:32
Speaker 1: these they.
1:34:33
Speaker 3: Have to go to the clinic because.
1:34:35
Speaker 1: It's just not the same unless someone else is doing it.
1:34:39
Speaker 3: Anyways, I think Victorian posts probably smelled better than modern
1:34:43
Speaker 3: day puss. That's all I'm saying.
1:34:45
Speaker 1: If you could get past the pubic care, which hey,
1:34:48
Speaker 1: I'm not against the pibes.
1:34:50
Speaker 3: You know, it's supposed to be there for cleanliness reasons. Pubes, Yeah,
1:34:55
Speaker 3: to keep stuff out.
1:34:57
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, those critters, Yeah, they get distracted by the jungle.
1:35:02
Speaker 3: That's that's what they say.
1:35:04
Speaker 1: Okay.
1:35:05
Speaker 3: Anyways, they sure had a heck of a lot cleaner diet.
1:35:10
Speaker 1: Than we have now, and the other pH was probably
1:35:13
Speaker 1: a little bit more on point without all the refined
1:35:15
Speaker 1: sugars and well.
1:35:17
Speaker 3: Also, what I was saying to you is, if you've
1:35:20
Speaker 3: ever been into a public women's restroom, you will know
1:35:24
Speaker 3: that there's no way a Victorian puss could smell worse
1:35:29
Speaker 3: than a twenty twenty five puss.
1:35:31
Speaker 1: It's insane, a.
1:35:32
Speaker 3: Homeless twenty twenty five puss and all they eat is
1:35:35
Speaker 3: like McDonald's and Taco bell and then they go into
1:35:38
Speaker 3: the public restrooms to clean up. Smell one of those
1:35:42
Speaker 3: pusses and tell me if you'd not rather have a Victorian.
1:35:45
Speaker 3: Feel like we've strayed, good, all right, So we're talking
1:35:53
Speaker 3: about the asylum era. So it was also around this
1:35:58
Speaker 3: time numerous different classification schemes and diagnostic terms were developed
1:36:04
Speaker 3: by different authorities taking an increasingly anatomical clinical descriptive approach.
1:36:12
Speaker 3: And this is when the term psychiatry was coined. Which
1:36:18
Speaker 3: they're saying that it wasn't until the nineteenth century that
1:36:24
Speaker 3: the term psychiatry was coined, but your article was from
1:36:28
Speaker 3: the tenth century.
1:36:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they were saying his approach falls under the psychiatry,
1:36:33
Speaker 1: even though they weren't calling it that back then. They
1:36:36
Speaker 1: were calling it baclava Muhammad Ali. Yeah, No, they weren't
1:36:43
Speaker 1: calling it psychiatry. But they're just pointing out that they
1:36:47
Speaker 1: clearly were practicing it, even though they didn't have the
1:36:49
Speaker 1: same name for it.
1:36:51
Speaker 3: So in this era, the asylum superintendents later were renamed psychiatrists,
1:37:02
Speaker 3: and they were they used to be called alienists because
1:37:11
Speaker 3: they were thought to deal with people alienated from society,
1:37:17
Speaker 3: but then they later became known as psychiatrists. But they
1:37:21
Speaker 3: didn't actually have any medical training. They were just asylum superintendents.
1:37:28
Speaker 1: They're tratchet Yeah.
1:37:30
Speaker 3: And that was the first psychiatrists. But so in the
1:37:36
Speaker 3: United States, it was proposed that black slaves who tried
1:37:39
Speaker 3: to escape had a mental disorder termed drape domainia drape domania,
1:37:49
Speaker 3: which is the belief that slavery was such an improvement
1:37:55
Speaker 3: upon the lives of slaves that only those suffering from
1:38:00
Speaker 3: some form of mental illness would try to escape. So
1:38:05
Speaker 3: what was the treatment for drape domania.
1:38:09
Speaker 1: Whippings?
1:38:11
Speaker 3: Uh to death.
1:38:11
Speaker 1: Actually, well, that'll cure it.
1:38:14
Speaker 3: Because apparently the you know, the treatment worked because they
1:38:18
Speaker 3: never received any.
1:38:19
Speaker 1: Complaints and they never ran again. Good cures all around.
1:38:25
Speaker 3: But this is what you were talking about when you
1:38:28
Speaker 3: said it became a little bit blurry as to why
1:38:31
Speaker 3: people were getting admitted into the asylums. So if a
1:38:36
Speaker 3: black slave tried to run away, they would say he
1:38:38
Speaker 3: had drape domania and whip him to death in an asylum.
1:38:43
Speaker 1: Or if a woman didn't have dinner on the table
1:38:45
Speaker 1: when her husband got home for work, she was hysterical.
1:38:50
Speaker 1: So we will talk about once you get into these places,
1:38:54
Speaker 1: good luck get now.
1:38:56
Speaker 3: Literally the slaves were just taken there to die and
1:39:00
Speaker 3: they would say they had drake domania. So this is
1:39:03
Speaker 3: where I was saying I agree with you. The line
1:39:06
Speaker 3: between an it's insane person and just somebody you're trying
1:39:11
Speaker 3: to get rid of. That line started to blur big
1:39:15
Speaker 3: time during this era.
1:39:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people would call other people mentally
1:39:20
Speaker 1: insane if they just wanted to get them put away,
1:39:24
Speaker 1: Like enemies could call you insane, and if they were
1:39:30
Speaker 1: convincing enough, you were put in the filing cabinet.
1:39:33
Speaker 3: Yeah. So in Nazi Germany, the institutionalized mentally ill were
1:39:39
Speaker 3: among the earliest targets of sterilization campaigns and covert euthanasia programs.
1:39:48
Speaker 3: They should have been inducted into the Church of Euthanasia.
1:39:52
Speaker 3: It's been estimated that over two hundred thousand individuals with
1:39:56
Speaker 3: mental disorders of all kinds were put to death all
1:39:59
Speaker 3: the so their mass murder has received relatively little historical attention.
1:40:05
Speaker 3: And this is during the asylum era. So and now,
1:40:10
Speaker 3: of course, Nazi Germany, are you kidding me? That was
1:40:14
Speaker 3: like they already had like the death camps that was
1:40:21
Speaker 3: for the Jews and the whatever. Whatever. It's like, if
1:40:24
Speaker 3: they just don't like you, they'll put.
1:40:26
Speaker 1: You in a Yeah. I mean, well, I hate to
1:40:29
Speaker 1: piss people off, but Jewish people like to have a
1:40:34
Speaker 1: monopoly on what was going on back then, and they
1:40:37
Speaker 1: were a part of it, no doubt about it. But
1:40:41
Speaker 1: it was more of people over here funding a huge experiment. Yeah,
1:40:47
Speaker 1: we can go to the Bush family and all of
1:40:50
Speaker 1: the central banks funding this Nazi research that may not
1:40:54
Speaker 1: have even been Nazi research, but they did take the
1:40:57
Speaker 1: fall for it. There were camps, and yeah, I wasn't
1:41:00
Speaker 1: just Jewish people. It was gay people, it was mentally
1:41:03
Speaker 1: ill people, anybody who looked funnier, sounded funnier, you could,
1:41:09
Speaker 1: you could end up in a place like this.
1:41:11
Speaker 3: So they literally had establishments for everyone eth asia programs,
1:41:17
Speaker 3: they had sterilization programs.
1:41:20
Speaker 1: And it's almost like these concentration camps were a more
1:41:23
Speaker 1: honest representation of what the mental institutions were doing too.
1:41:27
Speaker 1: But it was a state sanctioned torture program, and yeah,
1:41:33
Speaker 1: it continues to this day. So yeah, I mean, I
1:41:39
Speaker 1: would say a lot of the treatments probably came right
1:41:41
Speaker 1: out of that Nazierra.
1:41:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, sterilization, euthanasia, whipping, beating, change.
1:41:48
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a starving. There's a fuzzy line when
1:41:51
Speaker 1: it comes to the history of the lobotomy, but I
1:41:54
Speaker 1: guarantee you they tried to perfect in these camps.
1:41:57
Speaker 3: Okay, well I get that's the next thing I was,
1:42:00
Speaker 3: did you have anything.
1:42:01
Speaker 1: For Well, yeah, I want to get into some of
1:42:04
Speaker 1: these methods and we're going to finish on the lobotomy
1:42:07
Speaker 1: and then we can swing it back to you. Okay,
1:42:09
Speaker 1: but I have two short articles to read. This one
1:42:11
Speaker 1: is from Saint Finnshospital dot com. Yeah, this just might
1:42:18
Speaker 1: be some weird publication, but it's Saint Finnan's Hospital in
1:42:25
Speaker 1: Killarney in Ireland. Looking back at some of the treatments.
1:42:30
Speaker 1: You mean doing any Irish accent, I'd rather not looking back.
1:42:36
Speaker 1: Here's my white guy accent. Looking back at some of
1:42:39
Speaker 1: the treatments that were used to treat the mentally ill
1:42:41
Speaker 1: in Ireland can be quite shocking. Usually there was a
1:42:45
Speaker 1: rationale that drove the treatment strategy strategy, but today many
1:42:50
Speaker 1: seem barbaric, dangerous, if not downright torturous. This article is
1:42:55
Speaker 1: going to describe one of the homegrown treatments that gained
1:42:57
Speaker 1: international use. William Saunders o'halahan o'halahan oh Hallaran was a
1:43:05
Speaker 1: Cork physician who was the Medical Superintendent at the County
1:43:09
Speaker 1: and City of Cork Lunatic Asylum for forty years. In
1:43:15
Speaker 1: the early eighteen hundreds, he invented a circulating a circulating
1:43:19
Speaker 1: swing to induce sleep in control over individuals with acute
1:43:22
Speaker 1: mania or of obstinate nature. The patient was strapped into
1:43:28
Speaker 1: a chair or hammock and swung around at a rate
1:43:32
Speaker 1: of one hundred revolutions per minute, giving a massive rush
1:43:35
Speaker 1: of blood to the head, intensifying emotions as anxiety and fear,
1:43:39
Speaker 1: and causing physical symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, urination that
1:43:45
Speaker 1: means pissing, and sometimes brain hemorrhage. No Biggie Holleran, being
1:43:53
Speaker 1: a cute Corkman, realized that some of the mentally ill
1:43:56
Speaker 1: patients just enjoyed the experience of the swinging and the
1:43:59
Speaker 1: fun of being on it improved the mood. Therefore, Holleran
1:44:04
Speaker 1: widened the use of the swing to a wider insanity diagnosis.
1:44:10
Speaker 3: Show the picture on the screen.
1:44:14
Speaker 1: I don't know if it'll pick it up. Way there
1:44:18
Speaker 1: I go.
1:44:20
Speaker 3: Nice.
1:44:23
Speaker 1: Halleran put together a catalog of treatments that he used
1:44:26
Speaker 1: at the Lunatic Asylum in Cork and published the descriptions
1:44:29
Speaker 1: with illustrations. Now I'm gonna fast forward This is another
1:44:35
Speaker 1: method that comes up a lot in like the tortuous ways.
1:44:40
Speaker 1: It's called hydrotherapy. Sounds like it'd be nice. Well, you
1:44:45
Speaker 1: could go to the sauna, get your cold plunge in right.
1:44:49
Speaker 1: Hydro Therapy was a popular method of This is from
1:44:53
Speaker 1: Restoring Perspective Life and treatment at the London Asylum. Hydro
1:44:59
Speaker 1: Therapy was ap their method of treatment for mental illness
1:45:02
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the twentieth century and was used
1:45:04
Speaker 1: at many institutions, including the London Asylum for the insane.
1:45:08
Speaker 1: Water was thought to be an effected treatment because it
1:45:11
Speaker 1: could be heated or cooled to different temperatures, which, when
1:45:14
Speaker 1: applied to the skin, could produce various reactions throughout the
1:45:17
Speaker 1: rest of the body. One of the main benefits of
1:45:20
Speaker 1: hydrotherapy treatment was its ability to take effect quickly. Hydrotherapy
1:45:25
Speaker 1: could be accomplished with baths, packs, or sprays. Orm Continuous
1:45:29
Speaker 1: baths were used to treat patients suffering from insomnia, those
1:45:32
Speaker 1: considered to be a suicidal and assultive and calm excited
1:45:36
Speaker 1: and agitated behavior. A patient could expect a continuous bath
1:45:42
Speaker 1: treatment to last from several hours to several days, or
1:45:45
Speaker 1: sometimes even even overnight. Continuous baths were the most effective.
1:45:50
Speaker 1: One held in a quiet room with little light and
1:45:52
Speaker 1: audio stimulation, thus allowing the patient to relax and possibly
1:45:56
Speaker 1: even fall asleep. Bath temperatures typically range from ninety two
1:45:59
Speaker 1: to night ninety seven as so as not to cause injury.
1:46:03
Speaker 1: Packs consisted of sheets dipped in various temperatures of water,
1:46:08
Speaker 1: which were then wrapped around the patient for several hours,
1:46:11
Speaker 1: depending on the case. Sprays functioned like showers and used
1:46:14
Speaker 1: either warm or cold water. Cold water was used to
1:46:17
Speaker 1: treat patients diagnosed with manic depressive psychoses and those showing
1:46:22
Speaker 1: signs of excitement and increased motor activity. Application of cold
1:46:26
Speaker 1: water slowed down blood flowed the brain, decreasing mental and
1:46:30
Speaker 1: physical activity. The temperature for a cold pack arranged from
1:46:34
Speaker 1: forty eight degrees to seventy degrees. Hydrotherapy was used throughout
1:46:38
Speaker 1: the earliest century at the London Asylum for the insane.
1:46:44
Speaker 3: I've seen this though in movies.
1:46:46
Speaker 1: Old packs. No hydrotherapy, What about the sheets? No?
1:46:50
Speaker 3: But I will tell you it's nothing like what they're
1:46:53
Speaker 3: describing right there.
1:46:54
Speaker 1: Well, this seems to be in favor of right, This
1:47:04
Speaker 1: gets pretty fucking dark. So this is from new histories, lobotomy,
1:47:10
Speaker 1: insulin coma therapy, electric shock, and cortisol, the miracle cures
1:47:16
Speaker 1: question mark.
1:47:17
Speaker 3: Well, I got a lot to talk about lobotomis.
1:47:21
Speaker 1: Well, this is going to be the segue into the lobotomy.
1:47:24
Speaker 3: But I just wanted to let you know. The hydrotherapy,
1:47:28
Speaker 3: from what I have seen depicted, is nothing like that description. Okay,
1:47:33
Speaker 3: they would put you in a tank with boiling hot water.
1:47:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like they would do extremes. Yeah, old
1:47:39
Speaker 1: and hot, but.
1:47:40
Speaker 3: They would zipper you up in there, and then they
1:47:43
Speaker 3: would like so you couldn't get out, and they would
1:47:47
Speaker 3: leave you in there. It's apparently for hours or days.
1:47:50
Speaker 1: Or well, that article was very weirdly worded and it
1:47:55
Speaker 1: said from one day to several days, sometimes even overnight. Well, yeah,
1:48:00
Speaker 1: days implies many overnights, many overnight.
1:48:04
Speaker 3: But yeah, they would you couldn't get out. It wasn't
1:48:07
Speaker 3: like you were just soaking in the tub with some
1:48:09
Speaker 3: rose petals and some fucking basalts. They would just boil
1:48:13
Speaker 3: you for days or freeze you with just your head
1:48:20
Speaker 3: sticking out.
1:48:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. Me, anybody knows you're getting a hot tub for
1:48:25
Speaker 1: over an hour you're hydrated. Yeah, especially you've been drinking
1:48:31
Speaker 1: a little briskies.
1:48:33
Speaker 3: Anyways, just wanted to throw that out there.
1:48:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I'd never have seen it done other
1:48:38
Speaker 1: than in movies, so I'm not sure. But the one
1:48:42
Speaker 1: that got me was getting these sheets at different temperatures
1:48:47
Speaker 1: of water and wrapping them around people. I mean, imagine
1:48:52
Speaker 1: if you had like a claustrophobic.
1:48:53
Speaker 3: Patient, Well, imagine just your head sticking out of the
1:48:56
Speaker 3: tub and getting boiled for days.
1:48:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. All right, So this again is called the bottomy,
1:49:03
Speaker 1: Insulin coma therapy, electroshock, and cortisol the miracle cures question mark.
1:49:10
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty six, Antonio Egasimonies proposed the lobotomy, a
1:49:15
Speaker 1: form of brain surgery that physicians believed provide a cure
1:49:18
Speaker 1: for the baffling condition of schizophrenia. According to Reputable Medical Journal,
1:49:23
Speaker 1: the lancet, a long, hollow needle to which is attached
1:49:26
Speaker 1: to a loop of strong wire, was inserted into the
1:49:29
Speaker 1: brain and blindly rotated to cut a core of the
1:49:31
Speaker 1: white substance in the prefrontal cortex. This description causes extreme
1:49:37
Speaker 1: discomfort for the modern day reader. With what we know today,
1:49:40
Speaker 1: it is clear that the only thing the surgery achieved
1:49:42
Speaker 1: was extensive brain damage in patients for contemporaries, however, this
1:49:46
Speaker 1: was considered an innovative miracle cure. In fact, the treatment
1:49:50
Speaker 1: was so acclaimed it won Igasimuns a Nobel Prize in
1:49:54
Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine, thirteen after his first conception of the idea,
1:50:00
Speaker 1: botomy will mostly widely condemned today. Was not the only
1:50:03
Speaker 1: questionable treatment to emerge in the early twentieth century. A
1:50:07
Speaker 1: less well known but equally unfruitful treatment was insulin coma therapy,
1:50:12
Speaker 1: first introduced by Manfried J. Sakel in nineteen twenty seven.
1:50:17
Speaker 1: The patient was injected with insulin over six days, inducing
1:50:20
Speaker 1: regular comas aka hypoglycemia for two or three hour periods.
1:50:26
Speaker 1: This was This approach risked and irreversible coma, brain damage,
1:50:30
Speaker 1: and even death the lancet ict in. The lancet ict,
1:50:36
Speaker 1: which is insulin coma therapy, was often used as a
1:50:41
Speaker 1: comparison point for newer methods, a demonstration of the authority
1:50:45
Speaker 1: it managed to achieve in this period. A drug that
1:50:49
Speaker 1: is less readily accepted but still prominent in medical text
1:50:52
Speaker 1: was cortisol treatment or metrizol in the US injectoring cortisol
1:50:58
Speaker 1: induced an epileptic fit and patient. It's based on medical
1:51:01
Speaker 1: belief that epilepsy and schizophrenia could not occur together, so
1:51:08
Speaker 1: they thought if you were epileptic, you couldn't have schizophrenia,
1:51:11
Speaker 1: so they made you epileptic. That's not funny. I don't
1:51:16
Speaker 1: know why I'm laughing.
1:51:17
Speaker 3: Well, it's hilarious, actually. I mean, this is why I
1:51:20
Speaker 3: said the asylum era was the end of spirituality in
1:51:24
Speaker 3: the beginning of everything's just.
1:51:25
Speaker 1: Medicine, and that's just That's when I also said that
1:51:28
Speaker 1: it started to get really fucking dark. Yeah, I mean,
1:51:31
Speaker 1: I think I'd take a couple chunks of skull out
1:51:34
Speaker 1: of my head over this shit.
1:51:35
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. Little blood letting, come on. I
1:51:40
Speaker 3: you know, before I was pregnant, I let blood out
1:51:42
Speaker 3: all the time. It helped with my hysteria apparently.
1:51:49
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, they believe that schizophrenia couldnot occur with
1:51:52
Speaker 1: epilepsy in one person. Far less research existed in support
1:51:55
Speaker 1: for this therapy, but as it was cheaper then ict
1:51:59
Speaker 1: was in regular use. Due to immensephere expressed by patients
1:52:03
Speaker 1: that underwent this treatment, Cortisol injections were soon replaced with
1:52:06
Speaker 1: electroshock therapy, still in use today. In its early days,
1:52:10
Speaker 1: electroshock therapy was significantly more dangerous than it is now.
1:52:15
Speaker 1: Ugo Serletti's original method involved placing electrobes on the temple
1:52:19
Speaker 1: of the patient. Patient shocked with eighty or ninety volts
1:52:22
Speaker 1: to produce an epileptic fit. It is interesting that this
1:52:26
Speaker 1: was the lowest somatic treatment to gain credibility, considered far
1:52:29
Speaker 1: inferior to the insulin one. Clearly, these treatments did not
1:52:33
Speaker 1: work and even crueled by today's standards. So why did
1:52:37
Speaker 1: contemporaries hold them into such high esteem. The answer is
1:52:40
Speaker 1: two fold. Psychiatrists in this period aspired to achieve legitimate
1:52:44
Speaker 1: medical status, forced to make their approaches more scientific to
1:52:48
Speaker 1: gain approval. Of course, by today's standards, sematic treatments were
1:52:52
Speaker 1: not scientific at all. However, being scientific had different criteria
1:52:56
Speaker 1: criteria for temporaries, with less of a focus on objectivity
1:53:01
Speaker 1: in favor of empirical evidence. Research was largely in the
1:53:05
Speaker 1: use form of the case study, which at the time
1:53:07
Speaker 1: was perfectly acceptable in medical circles. One article even comprised
1:53:12
Speaker 1: of a letter from a lobotomy patient himself, posing the
1:53:15
Speaker 1: questions what use was it to live at all? If
1:53:18
Speaker 1: one was only half alive? The value of empirical evidence
1:53:21
Speaker 1: and research is clear, as the patient's subjective first time
1:53:26
Speaker 1: account was lauded in an esteemed medical journal. Outside of
1:53:30
Speaker 1: psychiatric profession, it was still widely held that psychosomatic treatments worked.
1:53:35
Speaker 1: This belief is understandable after considering that the definition of
1:53:39
Speaker 1: being cured was also differed in the historical context. In
1:53:43
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, an article in The Lancet declared with
1:53:46
Speaker 1: glee that young schizophrenics no longer filled the hospitals. In
1:53:50
Speaker 1: many ways, this was a marked improvement to a patient's
1:53:52
Speaker 1: quality of life, the alternative being oblique lifetime in a
1:53:56
Speaker 1: hospital to weigh out the illness. If a patient was
1:53:59
Speaker 1: able to cope in their community, they were in much
1:54:01
Speaker 1: better situation than if they were detained in a mental war. Furthermore,
1:54:05
Speaker 1: hospitals were expensive, which made mentally ill. Being mentally ill
1:54:09
Speaker 1: a great burden in ways that are not today. If
1:54:12
Speaker 1: the outcomes of psychosomatic treatments are weighed up against the
1:54:15
Speaker 1: realities of the time, it is easy to understand why
1:54:18
Speaker 1: contemporary so willingly accepted these treatments as the cure for schizophrenia.
1:54:23
Speaker 1: Our perceptions of the past are often shaded by the
1:54:25
Speaker 1: standards of the modern day. I'm not even to finish
1:54:28
Speaker 1: reading the last few sentences. These guys totally just like said, yeah,
1:54:33
Speaker 1: it was horrible, it was torturous, but you know what,
1:54:35
Speaker 1: they just did what they had to do in the time.
1:54:37
Speaker 3: They admitted it's gonna say, whoever wrote this article sucks.
1:54:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're shilling, but they are, but they do give
1:54:45
Speaker 1: a good information. Then they just turned tail.
1:54:49
Speaker 3: Okay, but that's not I mean, they're like, what they're
1:54:54
Speaker 3: not also saying is that the reason why electroshock therapy
1:54:58
Speaker 3: is still used today is that's the reason they were
1:55:01
Speaker 3: using it back then. Okay, and it's at a much
1:55:05
Speaker 3: lesser voltage by the way, No, it's it still doesn't work.
1:55:11
Speaker 3: What I'm saying, though, is they're still allowed to use it,
1:55:13
Speaker 3: but they've had to like tone it down to like
1:55:15
Speaker 3: a fucking little zap. What they were doing with electroshock
1:55:19
Speaker 3: therapy back then was shooting excessive volts of electric into
1:55:24
Speaker 3: your brain hole.
1:55:25
Speaker 1: So I doubt they even do lobotomies anymore. They were
1:55:29
Speaker 1: out on the level.
1:55:31
Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing about lobotomis and I'll try to
1:55:34
Speaker 3: sum it up quick because I know we've been at
1:55:37
Speaker 3: this for a while now, but it's all a very
1:55:39
Speaker 3: important information. The guy that you just mentioned, Antonio Monez.
1:55:48
Speaker 3: You ever seen a picture of him? No, he looks
1:55:51
Speaker 3: like sloths from the Goodies. The motherfucker looks like he
1:55:54
Speaker 3: needs a lobotomy anyway.
1:55:55
Speaker 1: Maybe he tested it on himself first.
1:55:58
Speaker 3: He's the originator of the botomy. But a lot of
1:56:01
Speaker 3: people don't know this, but the procedure of the lobotomy
1:56:06
Speaker 3: was modified and what they called championed and perfected quote
1:56:11
Speaker 3: unquote by a dude named Walter Freeman.
1:56:15
Speaker 1: Okay, Walter.
1:56:16
Speaker 3: So he performed the first lobotomy at a mental hospital
1:56:21
Speaker 3: in the United States in nineteen thirty six. Antonio was
1:56:25
Speaker 3: performing them in Berlin and it was a completely different jure. Yeah,
1:56:32
Speaker 3: so he got the Nobel Prize for what the work
1:56:35
Speaker 3: he was doing in Berlin with the lobotomy that he created,
1:56:38
Speaker 3: but it never made it to the States because Walter
1:56:43
Speaker 3: changed it, americanized it. And that's the lobotomy that we
1:56:48
Speaker 3: had in the States.
1:56:49
Speaker 1: It's like what we did with sushi and pizza.
1:56:53
Speaker 3: But so its use increased dramatically from the early nineteen
1:56:58
Speaker 3: forties and into the nineteen fifties, and by nineteen fifty one,
1:57:03
Speaker 3: almost twenty thousand lobotomies had been performed in the US
1:57:07
Speaker 3: thanks to Walter, not Antonio, because we didn't use his
1:57:12
Speaker 3: method whatsoever. And anytime you watch a movie, anytime you
1:57:16
Speaker 3: see something in a documentary about lobotomy, it's Walter's lobotomy,
1:57:22
Speaker 3: not Antonio's. So more lobotomies were performed on women than
1:57:29
Speaker 3: on men, and a nineteen fifty one study found that
1:57:32
Speaker 3: nearly sixty percent of American lobotomy patients were women. Does
1:57:38
Speaker 3: that shock you It doesn't shock me at all.
1:57:41
Speaker 1: Well, we all know about the old Kennedy family secret
1:57:46
Speaker 1: that's not so secret. But JFK's younger sister, I believe
1:57:50
Speaker 1: she was born in like forty one. You think she
1:57:53
Speaker 1: was in her early twenties. But one thing that isn't
1:57:57
Speaker 1: talked about a lot. I've learned recently is that when
1:58:01
Speaker 1: her mom was giving birth to her, the doctor was
1:58:06
Speaker 1: late or something, and the midwife told her to cross
1:58:11
Speaker 1: her legs and the kid was.
1:58:14
Speaker 3: Coming out oxygen deprivation.
1:58:17
Speaker 1: So she was always a little off. But then their
1:58:21
Speaker 1: idea was to lobottomize her, and she was bab got
1:58:24
Speaker 1: the Walter, but she was basically one of the you know,
1:58:27
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of results that happen. Sometimes it makes
1:58:30
Speaker 1: the people more fucking reactive. Sometimes it vegetizes them. And
1:58:33
Speaker 1: that's what it did to the Kennedy gal. Should I
1:58:37
Speaker 1: look her name up we're talking about Yeah.
1:58:39
Speaker 3: While you do that, I'm going to read a little
1:58:41
Speaker 3: bit more about the H. Walter lobotomi. So here's a
1:58:46
Speaker 3: little bit more about Walter. He was basically wanting to
1:58:51
Speaker 3: simplify lobotomies so that it could be carried out by
1:58:57
Speaker 3: psychiatrists in psychiatric hospitals where there were no operating rooms,
1:59:03
Speaker 3: no surgeons, no anesthesia, hospitals that had limited budgets, and
1:59:11
Speaker 3: he wanted them to still be able to perform the
1:59:14
Speaker 3: lobotomy right because the model that Antonio suggested would require
1:59:23
Speaker 3: operating rooms, surgeons, anesthesia, and people with some type of
1:59:31
Speaker 3: surgical skills. Right. Walter was like, nah, fuck that we
1:59:36
Speaker 3: should be able to do it with no anesthesia, on
1:59:38
Speaker 3: a limited budget, with no surgeons, no operating rooms, sometimes
1:59:42
Speaker 3: not even a doctor.
1:59:43
Speaker 1: He did like the fast food model.
1:59:45
Speaker 3: Yes, but that's the only one that we practiced in
1:59:48
Speaker 3: the US. That's why the results were so fucked up.
1:59:51
Speaker 3: So the transorbital approach involved placeding a orbito classed as
2:00:00
Speaker 3: it's called, which was basically just a little tiny ice
2:00:05
Speaker 3: pick in under the eyelid and against the top of
2:00:10
Speaker 3: the eye socket, and then they would just take a
2:00:13
Speaker 3: mallet and drive the ice pick through the thin layer
2:00:16
Speaker 3: of bone into the brain. And Walter's transorbital lobotomy method
2:00:22
Speaker 3: did not require a neurosurgeon, and it could be performed
2:00:26
Speaker 3: outside the operating room, often by untrained psychiatrists, without the
2:00:32
Speaker 3: use of anesthesia. And basically what they did instead of
2:00:36
Speaker 3: use anesthesia is they would electroshock them into a coma
2:00:41
Speaker 3: or a seizure.
2:00:42
Speaker 1: So this guy's name was Walter. Yeah you think he
2:00:44
Speaker 1: ever was like, I get you a lobotomy by three o'clock.
2:00:48
Speaker 1: That's okay, so willhelm on in here.
2:00:52
Speaker 3: Basically he would electroshock them and then put the ice
2:00:55
Speaker 3: pick into their eyeball, tap it with the mallet, get
2:00:59
Speaker 3: up into the brain and just start scribbling shit around.
2:01:03
Speaker 3: So Walter later traveled across the United States visiting mental
2:01:08
Speaker 3: institutions and in nineteen fifty one, one of his patients
2:01:12
Speaker 3: out at Iowa Cherokee Mental Health Institute died when he
2:01:18
Speaker 3: stopped to take a picture during the procedure and he
2:01:24
Speaker 3: went too far into the patient's brain and killed them.
2:01:27
Speaker 3: But he got a great pick out of it. And
2:01:31
Speaker 3: after four decades, Walter had personally performed possibly as many
2:01:36
Speaker 3: as four thousand lobotomies on patients as young as four years.
2:01:39
Speaker 1: Old Jesus four yep.
2:01:41
Speaker 3: Why And despite the fact that he had no formal
2:01:46
Speaker 3: surgical training, he was still able to perform four thousand lobotomies.
2:01:52
Speaker 1: This kind needs to be in a horror movie.
2:01:54
Speaker 3: And as many as one hundred of his patients died
2:01:57
Speaker 3: of cerebral hemorrhage. And so he has no formal medical training. Right,
2:02:04
Speaker 3: what's this dude's story? How is he able to do this?
2:02:08
Speaker 3: So he comes from a family of upper echelons from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
2:02:15
Speaker 3: He attended Yale University, not for medicine, and his grandfather
2:02:21
Speaker 3: was some kind of a general in the Civil War.
2:02:25
Speaker 3: And his first job was directing laboratories at Saint Elizabeth's
2:02:30
Speaker 3: Hospital in Washington, d C. And some would think, oh,
2:02:37
Speaker 3: nothing to see here, but I would say, it's suspicious.
2:02:42
Speaker 3: The guy goes to Yale University and his first job
2:02:45
Speaker 3: is in Washington, DC directing laboratories, and then he comes
2:02:49
Speaker 3: up with this lobotomi method. He's able to perform four
2:02:53
Speaker 3: thousand lobotomies with no medical training whatsoever. He's just killing
2:02:57
Speaker 3: people left and right, taking selfies.
2:03:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's of it. You mentioned an upper echelon
2:03:03
Speaker 1: family out of Philly, out of Pennsylvania, So yeah, this
2:03:11
Speaker 1: does week of spook connections.
2:03:15
Speaker 3: I think that they were just conducting big experiments on.
2:03:18
Speaker 1: Well it wasn't an experimental yes, but also you're eradicating
2:03:25
Speaker 1: a large portion of the population. Yeah, you're basically turning
2:03:30
Speaker 1: them into useless eaters who just probably most like we
2:03:37
Speaker 1: were talking about. Rosemary was their name, Kennedy. She was
2:03:41
Speaker 1: lobotomized at twenty three and then was institutionalized for the
2:03:45
Speaker 1: rest of her life.
2:03:47
Speaker 3: But she got the Walter. Yeah, because they only performed
2:03:52
Speaker 3: the Walter in the US, the one that the guy
2:03:57
Speaker 3: that won the Nobel Prize, the uh what's his name, uh,
2:04:04
Speaker 3: Antonio manz whatever. His procedure was completely different than what
2:04:13
Speaker 3: Walter was doing.
2:04:16
Speaker 1: So it's funny that they just shift all of it
2:04:17
Speaker 1: to him.
2:04:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, why isn't anybody talking about the fact that there
2:04:24
Speaker 3: there was never one lobotomy performed using Antonio's method in
2:04:31
Speaker 3: the US. Walter heard about it and was like, fuck
2:04:35
Speaker 3: all that we could do this without even any anesthesia
2:04:39
Speaker 3: or doctors in the room. Let me just put a
2:04:41
Speaker 3: fucking ice pick in this person's eyeball, tap it a
2:04:44
Speaker 3: couple times, and then scramble their brain. That the Walter
2:04:49
Speaker 3: method is in all the pop culture movies when they
2:04:53
Speaker 3: stick it in and they tap it and they get
2:04:56
Speaker 3: up into the that's Walter.
2:04:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, he wasn't a doctor.
2:05:02
Speaker 3: Walter was not a fucking doctor. How is that? How
2:05:08
Speaker 3: was that either?
2:05:08
Speaker 1: Well? And I imagine he was going around just showing
2:05:11
Speaker 1: everybody how to do it too. Yes, so yeah, you
2:05:15
Speaker 1: watch one flew over the Kouka's nest, which we'll go
2:05:17
Speaker 1: into extensively in the last episode. But yeah, it's uh,
2:05:24
Speaker 1: it's some dark ass shit. I mean, it's basically attempted murder,
2:05:29
Speaker 1: at at the very least on patients as young as four.
2:05:35
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine who the fuck in their right
2:05:37
Speaker 1: mind would hand their child over to have that done. That.
2:05:40
Speaker 1: Those people need to be lobotomized in a very painful way.
2:05:45
Speaker 3: I mean, if so, if they couldn't get him with
2:05:49
Speaker 3: the lobotomy, they use those other forms of treatment that
2:05:53
Speaker 3: you mentioned, insulin shock therapy, electroconvulsive therapy, neurolliptic drug therapy.
2:06:01
Speaker 3: So that's gonna wrap us up for what I had
2:06:05
Speaker 3: for part one, the Loboto Matrix.
2:06:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did want to briefly go over before we
2:06:13
Speaker 1: close out. This reporter Nellie Bly, who many of you
2:06:23
Speaker 1: have probably heard of. Well, basically, she was an undercover
2:06:27
Speaker 1: reporter and she got the job by pitching this story
2:06:30
Speaker 1: to the newspaper. And she got into this institution and
2:06:35
Speaker 1: her overall stay was ten days. But while she was
2:06:38
Speaker 1: in there, she understood that, you know, they weren't fucking around.
2:06:43
Speaker 1: This was like a game to her. And when she
2:06:46
Speaker 1: kind of like tried to convince the people that she
2:06:48
Speaker 1: was saying all of a sudden, they attributed that to
2:06:52
Speaker 1: her being more insane, and she got stuck in this cycle.
2:06:55
Speaker 1: And finally, after ten days, the newspaper guy came in
2:06:59
Speaker 1: there and got her out. She wrote a book detailing
2:07:02
Speaker 1: all of it. It kind of brought some attention to it,
2:07:04
Speaker 1: but you know, it did keep happening for decades, and
2:07:10
Speaker 1: I mean there's indicators that it's still happening today.
2:07:12
Speaker 3: He's going to say, I think it's actually still happening.
2:07:15
Speaker 1: I mean, mental institutions aren't a big thing, although Donald
2:07:18
Speaker 1: Trump is talking about bringing them back.
2:07:22
Speaker 3: We need worlds fairs and more mental institutions make America
2:07:25
Speaker 3: great agains. Seeing girl interrupted.
2:07:29
Speaker 1: I don't know if he could sit through a movie.
2:07:32
Speaker 1: But anyway, to close the episode out, I wanted to
2:07:37
Speaker 1: read that article about that African guy because I think
2:07:40
Speaker 1: it's just a good wrap up of like these different
2:07:44
Speaker 1: perspectives on mental illness and the route that Western society
2:07:48
Speaker 1: took and has is continuing to take. And we will
2:07:52
Speaker 1: get into more modern day mental illness and our societal
2:07:56
Speaker 1: reaction to it, probably in the next episode. All right,
2:08:01
Speaker 1: This is from Mad in America, written in June tenth,
2:08:06
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. The Shamanic view of mental illness Birth of
2:08:11
Speaker 1: a Healer. In the Shamanic view, mental illness signals the
2:08:16
Speaker 1: birth of a healer, explains a West African shaman Maladoma
2:08:21
Speaker 1: patrise sommee. Thus, mental disorders are spiritual emergencies, spiritual crises
2:08:26
Speaker 1: and need to be regarded as such to aid the
2:08:28
Speaker 1: healer in being born with those in the West view
2:08:31
Speaker 1: as mental illness, the Dagara people regard as good news
2:08:35
Speaker 1: from the other world. The person going through the crisis
2:08:38
Speaker 1: has been chosen as a medium for a message to
2:08:41
Speaker 1: the community that needs to be communicate communicated from the
2:08:44
Speaker 1: spirit realm. Doctor Somme comments mental disorder behavioral disorders of
2:08:49
Speaker 1: all kinds signal effect that two obviously incompatible energies have
2:08:54
Speaker 1: merged into the same field. These disturbances result when the
2:08:58
Speaker 1: person does not get assistance and healing with the presence
2:09:02
Speaker 1: of the energy from the spirit realm. One of the
2:09:04
Speaker 1: things doctor so May encountered when he first came to
2:09:07
Speaker 1: the United States in nineteen eighty for graduate study was
2:09:12
Speaker 1: how this country deals with mental illness. When a fellow
2:09:15
Speaker 1: student was sent to a mental institute due to nervous depression,
2:09:20
Speaker 1: doctor so May went to visit him. I was so shocked.
2:09:23
Speaker 1: That was the first time I was brought face to
2:09:25
Speaker 1: face with what is done here to people exhibiting the
2:09:29
Speaker 1: same symptoms I've seen seen in my village. What struck
2:09:33
Speaker 1: doctor so Mae was that the attention given to such
2:09:36
Speaker 1: symptoms was based on pathology on the idea that the
2:09:39
Speaker 1: condition is something that needs to stop. This was in
2:09:42
Speaker 1: complete opposition to the way his culture views such a situation.
2:09:46
Speaker 1: As he looked around the stark ward at the patients,
2:09:49
Speaker 1: some in strait jackets, some zoned out on medications, others screaming,
2:09:54
Speaker 1: he observed to himself. So this is how the healers
2:09:57
Speaker 1: who are attempting to be born are treated in this culture.
2:10:00
Speaker 1: What a loss? What a loss that a person who
2:10:02
Speaker 1: is finally being aligned with a power from the other
2:10:04
Speaker 1: world is just being wasted. The Western culture has consistently
2:10:09
Speaker 1: ignored the birth of the healer, states doctor. So may
2:10:12
Speaker 1: consequently there will be a tendency from the other world
2:10:14
Speaker 1: to keep trying as many people as possible an attempt
2:10:17
Speaker 1: to get somebody's attention. They have to try harder. The
2:10:21
Speaker 1: spirits are drawn to people whose senses have not been anestetized.
2:10:26
Speaker 1: The sensitivity is pretty much read as an inventation to
2:10:29
Speaker 1: come in. You know, those who develop so called mental
2:10:32
Speaker 1: disorders are those who are sensitive, which is viewed in
2:10:35
Speaker 1: Western culture is over sensitivity. Indigenous cultures don't see it
2:10:41
Speaker 1: that way, and as a result, sensitive people don't experience
2:10:44
Speaker 1: themselves as overly sensitive in the West. It is the
2:10:47
Speaker 1: overload of the culture they're in that is just wrecking them,
2:10:52
Speaker 1: observes doctor so Ma. The frenetic pace, the bombardment of
2:10:56
Speaker 1: the senses, and the violent energy that characterize Western culture
2:10:59
Speaker 1: can overwhelmed sensitive people with schizophrenia. There's a special receptivity
2:11:06
Speaker 1: to a flow of images and information which cannot be controlled,
2:11:09
Speaker 1: stated doctor so Ma. And as a side note, in
2:11:12
Speaker 1: our culture that's only getting much worse, yes with all
2:11:15
Speaker 1: the kids having phones and all that shit we had TV,
2:11:20
Speaker 1: which was bad enough. When this kind of rush occurs
2:11:23
Speaker 1: at a time that is not personally chose as chosen,
2:11:26
Speaker 1: and particularly when it comes with images that are scary
2:11:29
Speaker 1: and contradictory, the person goes into a frenzy. What is
2:11:33
Speaker 1: required in this situation is first to separate the person's
2:11:36
Speaker 1: energy from the extraneous foreign energies by using shamanic practice
2:11:40
Speaker 1: what is known as a sweep, to clear the latter
2:11:43
Speaker 1: out of the individual's era. With the clearing of the energy,
2:11:47
Speaker 1: with the clearing of their energy filled, the person no
2:11:49
Speaker 1: longer picks up a flood of information and so no
2:11:51
Speaker 1: longer has a reason to be scared and disturb explains
2:11:55
Speaker 1: Doctor so Ma, then it is possible to help the
2:11:58
Speaker 1: person align with the inner energy of the spirit being
2:12:01
Speaker 1: attempting to come through from the other world and give
2:12:04
Speaker 1: birth to the healer. The blockage of that emergence is
2:12:07
Speaker 1: what creates problems. The energy of the healer is a
2:12:10
Speaker 1: high voltage energy. He observes when it is blocked, it
2:12:14
Speaker 1: just burns up the person. It's like a short circuit.
2:12:17
Speaker 1: Fuses are blowing. This is why it can be really scary,
2:12:20
Speaker 1: and I understand why this culture prefers to confine these
2:12:23
Speaker 1: people here. They are yelling and screaming and they're put
2:12:26
Speaker 1: in a straight jacket. That's a sad image. Again, the
2:12:29
Speaker 1: shamanic approach is to work on aligning the energy so
2:12:32
Speaker 1: there is no blockage, fuses aren't blowing, and the person
2:12:35
Speaker 1: can become the healer they are meant to be. It
2:12:38
Speaker 1: needs to be noted at this point, however, that not
2:12:41
Speaker 1: all of the spirit beings that enter a person's energetic
2:12:43
Speaker 1: field are there for the purposes of promoting healing. There
2:12:47
Speaker 1: are negative energies as well, which are undesirable presents in
2:12:51
Speaker 1: the era. In those cases, the shamanic approach is to
2:12:54
Speaker 1: remove them from the era rather than work to align
2:12:57
Speaker 1: the discordant energies. And that kind of sounds like, oh,
2:13:02
Speaker 1: is that the end of it?
2:13:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let me do I actually made a note
2:13:06
Speaker 3: in my phone as you were reading that because it
2:13:09
Speaker 3: reminded me of something else I want to talk about
2:13:11
Speaker 3: in the next episode. But do you think, like I
2:13:15
Speaker 3: can get on with what this guy's saying.
2:13:19
Speaker 1: So I've always said that our fucking culture, our society.
2:13:24
Speaker 1: He calls them sensitive people. I would just say more
2:13:27
Speaker 1: people are just opened And so a lot of this
2:13:30
Speaker 1: stuff does drive people that if they grew up in
2:13:33
Speaker 1: this guy's village, they wouldn't be fucking crazy.
2:13:35
Speaker 3: You know what supports that theory. You can take a
2:13:39
Speaker 3: normal person like you or I.
2:13:43
Speaker 1: In induce normal.
2:13:46
Speaker 3: Listen, and induce psychosis with drugs. That's why I asked you, like,
2:13:52
Speaker 3: do you think every homeless person is just schizophrenic or
2:13:56
Speaker 3: psychopathic or whatever they're mentally ill. No, they started out
2:14:01
Speaker 3: as a normal person and they and they opened themselves up.
2:14:06
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, a large proportion of the homeless population does
2:14:10
Speaker 1: fall into that. I would say it's really nuanced, but
2:14:13
Speaker 1: that's a huge part of it.
2:14:14
Speaker 3: But you know what, I'm saying, like, maybe, sure, some
2:14:18
Speaker 3: some homeless people started off mentally ill and did drugs
2:14:23
Speaker 3: and now they're worse off. But for the most part,
2:14:26
Speaker 3: like when you see when you pass a homeless person
2:14:29
Speaker 3: there and they're talking to themselves and they're shouting stuff
2:14:32
Speaker 3: out and whatever, they didn't start off like that.
2:14:35
Speaker 1: And even if they did, it would have been treated
2:14:37
Speaker 1: differently in a different culture. It would have been nurtured
2:14:40
Speaker 1: instead of stigmatized, you know, right, Well, that's half of
2:14:44
Speaker 1: the problem I think here is when people are experiencing
2:14:47
Speaker 1: something that the collective isn't experiencing, they're shunned, even if
2:14:52
Speaker 1: they're like nurtured in a way, but they're still shunned.
2:14:55
Speaker 1: And you're never gonna get good results with that. No,
2:14:59
Speaker 1: I don't think it's possible.
2:15:00
Speaker 3: You're never gonna get good results by numbing it with medication.
2:15:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, either, yeah, you can like bury it down. And
2:15:08
Speaker 1: then in the event where that person doesn't have access
2:15:10
Speaker 1: to medication somehow, which could.
2:15:12
Speaker 3: Happen, they have a psycho outbreak.
2:15:15
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're you're now on the pharmaceutical teat for
2:15:19
Speaker 1: effort of days or it could get ugly. I mean,
2:15:23
Speaker 1: just look at all the medical shortages we had during
2:15:25
Speaker 1: the COVID bullshit.
2:15:28
Speaker 3: Well, so that's why in the next episode, I want
2:15:31
Speaker 3: to touch on several things. I want to talk about
2:15:33
Speaker 3: some notorious asylums. I want to talk about psychiatry now,
2:15:41
Speaker 3: I want to talk about pharmaceuticals. And I want to
2:15:44
Speaker 3: talk about what would this doctor so May or however
2:15:48
Speaker 3: you pronounce his name, what doctor so May is talking about?
2:15:53
Speaker 3: Is this world that we're living in, like we have
2:15:58
Speaker 3: turned it into an industry. We've turned it into cogs
2:16:04
Speaker 3: in a medical machine. It's just normal, yes, but they're
2:16:09
Speaker 3: you're making so much money.
2:16:11
Speaker 1: All the people you know, okay, close people, family members
2:16:16
Speaker 1: of yours. Think of how many of them are on
2:16:20
Speaker 1: some kind of psych medicine. A lot of them, I mean,
2:16:24
Speaker 1: i'd say more are than aren't at this point.
2:16:27
Speaker 3: And your family too.
2:16:29
Speaker 1: I'm talking about my family. I'm talking about maybe some
2:16:32
Speaker 1: of my family who isn't should probably be like you
2:16:35
Speaker 1: never fucking know, I mean, yeah, I could glitch out
2:16:38
Speaker 1: at sixty and fucking need some of this shit. Well,
2:16:42
Speaker 1: I'm just saying they're there.
2:16:44
Speaker 3: We have not addressed the underlying cause, and we throw
2:16:52
Speaker 3: pills down people's throats.
2:16:56
Speaker 1: By episode three, we will tell you the underlying cause.
2:17:00
Speaker 3: I did a pretty good job.
2:17:02
Speaker 1: That's the most help well. Like I said, I wanted
2:17:05
Speaker 1: to interject like the transition, but I think it worked
2:17:08
Speaker 1: better closing out the episode with it, because that kind
2:17:10
Speaker 1: of gives a tangent that we could go off on
2:17:12
Speaker 1: next episode, because it is his theme needs to be
2:17:16
Speaker 1: overriding all of this, because he even talks in spiritual language.
2:17:22
Speaker 1: But he also says it's too like contradicting energy fields,
2:17:26
Speaker 1: and I mean all of it, all of it makes
2:17:29
Speaker 1: sense with how I view the world way more than
2:17:34
Speaker 1: it's oh, your serotonin levels need to be re uptake
2:17:38
Speaker 1: inhibited or whatever. Yeah fuck yeah, yeah sure, because that
2:17:42
Speaker 1: always works, doesn't it.
2:17:43
Speaker 3: Yeah that Oh yeah, it works every time.
2:17:45
Speaker 1: But you know, and maybe sometimes it does, but it's
2:17:47
Speaker 1: not designed to I can tell you that, right.
2:17:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, what what are we? Are we using a code
2:17:53
Speaker 3: word for Randy Smoke? Who the guy the the shooting? No?
2:17:59
Speaker 1: Are you putting this on YouTube?
2:18:00
Speaker 3: No? So usually when you see school shooters and shit
2:18:04
Speaker 3: like that, they're all on serotonin inhibitors, and.
2:18:08
Speaker 1: Babe, it's not usually, it's always. But what I'm saying
2:18:13
Speaker 1: is if they're never not SSRIs, some kind of behavioral
2:18:16
Speaker 1: modification pharmaceutical drug for sure, all of them. The fucking
2:18:20
Speaker 1: if there's a scandal with the fucking uh Columbine shooters,
2:18:24
Speaker 1: there was a scandal with the fucking drug company that
2:18:27
Speaker 1: at least one of those kids was on, if not
2:18:29
Speaker 1: both of them. I know one of them was for sure.
2:18:32
Speaker 3: So again, if that was the answer to mental illness,
2:18:39
Speaker 3: we would have figured it out already.
2:18:41
Speaker 1: Ship we'd all be on them.
2:18:44
Speaker 3: But it's not. No, But yeah, so what do you
2:18:48
Speaker 3: what do you think? It? Just final thoughts for the
2:18:51
Speaker 3: loboto matrix segment.
2:18:53
Speaker 1: Uh, don't go get a lobotomy, probably not unless that's
2:18:57
Speaker 1: your thing. And uh yeah, we will definitely have a
2:19:02
Speaker 1: juicy beginning to next episode. Some of the stuff we
2:19:04
Speaker 1: were going to talk about before this one became almost
2:19:06
Speaker 1: three hours long. It'll all flow together. And I mean,
2:19:12
Speaker 1: I think these are thoughts that in our modern day world,
2:19:16
Speaker 1: just walking up in the middle of the fucking street
2:19:19
Speaker 1: of a city, you're going to see mental illness more
2:19:23
Speaker 1: and more all the time. It seems to be getting
2:19:25
Speaker 1: worse and our way of handling it.
2:19:28
Speaker 3: And yeah, something else I want to talk about in
2:19:31
Speaker 3: the next episode is also how the if anybody out
2:19:39
Speaker 3: there is listening to this and their child is autistic,
2:19:42
Speaker 3: do not take this personally. But I do feel like
2:19:45
Speaker 3: there is a big push to normalize it some type
2:19:50
Speaker 3: of superpower.
2:19:52
Speaker 1: And I mean they are extraordinary people, don't get me wrong,
2:19:55
Speaker 1: But it's not the next step in evident, it's not unless.
2:19:59
Speaker 3: What else I I want to say is what people
2:20:03
Speaker 3: need to understand is that this uptake in autistic children
2:20:08
Speaker 3: is caused from the uptake in the nineties of introducing
2:20:12
Speaker 3: a bunch of unnecessary vaccines.
2:20:15
Speaker 1: Oh you look where you're going r f K Junior.
2:20:19
Speaker 1: I would have a thing or two to say.
2:20:22
Speaker 3: Do you not agree?
2:20:23
Speaker 1: Of course I do. It's not a superpowerful And I
2:20:28
Speaker 1: also want to say something that I don't believe that
2:20:31
Speaker 1: the people who think this modern, this very new view
2:20:36
Speaker 1: that maybe this autism is like a superpower and the
2:20:39
Speaker 1: next step in human development. I would bet my bottom
2:20:42
Speaker 1: fucking dollar that the parents of autistic kids would be
2:20:45
Speaker 1: the first one to tell you fuck off of that
2:20:49
Speaker 1: I have to deal with this shit every day, day
2:20:51
Speaker 1: in and day out, and this is not a normal thing.
2:20:53
Speaker 3: Do you think that they would admit that childhood?
2:20:57
Speaker 1: Oh I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to
2:20:58
Speaker 1: speak for anybody on that, but I do know people
2:21:01
Speaker 1: who have to interact with autistic people on a daily basis,
2:21:03
Speaker 1: and they don't look at it as an upgrade.
2:21:06
Speaker 3: I don't look at that.
2:21:07
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm just saying when you were, like to
2:21:09
Speaker 1: any parents out there, I would think that they would
2:21:11
Speaker 1: agree with us. If not, medical people bomb herrass hard
2:21:14
Speaker 1: in the comments that they're wrong.
2:21:16
Speaker 3: Well, I just have I've met a couple recently who
2:21:18
Speaker 3: think that it's the next step in the evolution. And
2:21:21
Speaker 3: that's fair if they think.
2:21:22
Speaker 1: That autistic kids, yes, okay, hey, if that's the mild.
2:21:28
Speaker 3: Form of autism where they have like some kind of
2:21:30
Speaker 3: voluntism like that could be considered to be like some
2:21:35
Speaker 3: type of you know, the ability to do things that
2:21:41
Speaker 3: the average person would struggle with. I understand you thinking
2:21:44
Speaker 3: that could be a superpower. But just on the day
2:21:47
Speaker 3: today autistic children have I think the rise in autistic
2:21:53
Speaker 3: children occurred around the rise of unnecessary childhood vaccine schedules.
2:22:00
Speaker 3: It's not I think I.
2:22:01
Speaker 1: Think there's probably a lot of stuff contributing to it.
2:22:04
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna talk some MK ultra next time.
2:22:08
Speaker 1: And I think that there's a huge overlap of like
2:22:12
Speaker 1: that guy you like to talk about in Urie Geller,
2:22:15
Speaker 1: Oh Andrea, all these guys have a reason to push
2:22:20
Speaker 1: this narrative. It's very pharmaceutical, it's very Golden Age technocratic.
2:22:27
Speaker 1: It's it's very ugly. And if this ship was supposed
2:22:32
Speaker 1: to happen as the nation the natural advancement of the
2:22:35
Speaker 1: human society, it wouldn't have taken those measures to make
2:22:38
Speaker 1: it happen. CIA shit, pharmaceutical shit, it wouldn't have been.
2:22:44
Speaker 1: It wouldn't have taken that. So they're right there. Tells
2:22:46
Speaker 1: me like anything those guys do. Yeah, they made good
2:22:50
Speaker 1: music in la in the sixties, but other than that.
2:22:54
Speaker 3: They can bring that back at any time. I'm so
2:22:56
Speaker 3: sick to fucking death of this ship that they've been
2:22:59
Speaker 3: putting out.
2:23:00
Speaker 1: Just listen to the good stuff. The Laurel Canyon sy
2:23:03
Speaker 1: to the good stuff.
2:23:04
Speaker 3: But I'm just saying I could use the revival of
2:23:07
Speaker 3: the good CIA music.
2:23:09
Speaker 1: I'm sure they got something cooking.
2:23:12
Speaker 3: So with that being said, I think this is a
2:23:15
Speaker 3: good conclusion for the Loboto Matrix. Thank you for listening
2:23:21
Speaker 3: all the way to the end. This was a longer one.
2:23:24
Speaker 3: I hope we can bring the fire for the next episode.
2:23:27
Speaker 3: It is going to be the Conspira Asylum Part two
2:23:32
Speaker 3: Schizopharmiac segment. But thank you so much for listening. And
2:23:40
Speaker 3: there is one very important, vital piece of information I
2:23:44
Speaker 3: need you to learn just as soon as humanly possible.
2:24:00
Speaker 2: As normal places a mot of faces.
2:24:04
Speaker 1: I've got to live an take.
2:24:06
Speaker 2: Mess, don't we know? Don't we know that? Ts a
2:24:14
Speaker 2: feeling the bad loss and don't spreadshow, don't like expression
2:24:21
Speaker 2: my lid over to dumas to go to a find
2:24:30
Speaker 2: of fading. I found a god of side the drinking.
2:24:34
Speaker 3: Jumped out, you know, the dad iBOT.
2:24:38
Speaker 2: I want to tell you guys, I need to take
2:24:41
Speaker 2: with people.
2:24:42
Speaker 1: In circles.
2:24:46
Speaker 4: And ready you count me down five four, three two? Hello,
2:25:11
Speaker 4: really it just farted?
2:25:14
Speaker 1: Heybe she did? Everybody. If this doesn't make it into
2:25:18
Speaker 1: the outtakes, she's lost her sense of humor. Eight months pregnant.
2:25:25
Speaker 3: I'm gonna shave your eyebrows in your sleep.
2:25:28
Speaker 1: I look pretty good like that. I looked like a
2:25:29
Speaker 1: guy from a pink floor. You look like a chemo.
2:25:32
Speaker 3: Hush,