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Mega Edition: Lori Vallow And Those Who Knew Her Best (9/13/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. The
0:04
Speaker 1: first week of Lori Vallow's trial, we heard a lot
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Speaker 1: about her crazy ass, wacky ass religious beliefs. Well, now
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Speaker 1: experts are asking if those religious beliefs are going to
0:18
Speaker 1: hurt her or help her in the trial moving forward.
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Speaker 1: So today we have an article from the Daily Beast
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Speaker 1: talking about this very topic. So let's get right to it.
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Speaker 1: And let's see what author Pilar Melendez has come up with. Headline,
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Speaker 1: Will Accused Killer Mom Lori Vallow's Doomsday Beliefs Doom Her
0:38
Speaker 1: in Court? This article was authored by Pilar Melendez. Over
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Speaker 1: the last week, an Idaho jury has heard prosecutors argue
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Speaker 1: that Lori Vallow killed her two children and her husband's
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Speaker 1: former wife, and that her doomsday-focused faith allegedly fueled the
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Speaker 1: 2019 slayings, which they say were premeditated. Well, I think
1:03
Speaker 1: that all tracks. So far what we have heard from
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Speaker 1: the witness testimony and just evidence that has been collected
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Speaker 1: throughout the investigation, it certainly points to that. But legal
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Speaker 1: experts tell the Daily Beast that the decision to showcase
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Speaker 1: how Valo's long-held beliefs in a renegade branch of the
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Speaker 1: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which took an
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Speaker 1: extremist turn after meeting her husband, Chad Daybell, may prove
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Speaker 1: to be a double-edged sword for the prosecution. I wouldn't
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Speaker 1: even call it an offshoot of the Church of Jesus
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Speaker 1: Christ of Latter-day Saints. This was something that this dude,
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Speaker 1: Chad Daybell, came up with. This is no different than
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Speaker 1: you and I sitting around right now and coming up
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Speaker 1: with some kind of wild-ass story and then pitching it
1:50
Speaker 1: to our friends hoping they'd believe us. Unfortunately for me,
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Speaker 1: My friends wouldn't even believe this shit if they were
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Speaker 1: on an eighth of shrooms and four hits of acid
2:00
Speaker 1: because it's that unbelievable. So for me, the religion aspect
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Speaker 1: of this has always just been there for the justification
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Speaker 1: for the act. I think it was a mistake for
2:09
Speaker 1: the prosecution to focus on the religion aspect. Janet Johnson,
2:14
Speaker 1: a criminal defense attorney who is not associated with the case,
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Speaker 1: said on Monday, I think the theme they opened with
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Speaker 1: is that she was motivated by money, power, and sex.
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Speaker 1: and not open the door to sympathy or possible insanity defense. Well,
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Speaker 1: that's not going to happen. There's no such thing as
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Speaker 1: an insanity plea in Idaho. So that's out the window.
2:37
Speaker 1: There's not going to be Lori Vallow claiming insanity. And
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Speaker 1: like I said before, I think she's crazy, no doubt
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Speaker 1: about it. Do I think she's insane? Nope. Do I
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Speaker 1: think she's competent to stand trial? Yup. Do I think
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Speaker 1: she knew what she was doing? Yup. Do I think
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Speaker 1: all of this was premeditated? I sure do. And while
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Speaker 1: I have empathy for people who have mental health issues,
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Speaker 1: I don't have empathy for anybody who murders their children
3:02
Speaker 1: or helps murder their children. And according to the government
3:06
Speaker 1: and the evidence that we have seen, Lori Vallow certainly
3:09
Speaker 1: fits that bill. Prosecutors allege that Vallow, 49, and her
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Speaker 1: husband murdered her two children, 7-year-old Joshua J.J. Vallow and
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Speaker 1: 17-year-old Tylee Ryan, in September 2019. before burying their bodies
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Speaker 1: in Daybell's backyard. About a month later, prosecutors allege the
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Speaker 1: couple conspired to fatally strangle Daybell's first wife, Tammy Daybell,
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Speaker 1: for an insurance and social security payout before moving to
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Speaker 1: Hawaii and getting married. Vallow, who is standing trial alone
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Speaker 1: after Daybell's legal team asked to separate their cases, has
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Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty to several charges. She faces a maximum
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Speaker 1: sentence of life in prison if convicted. Legal experts previously
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Speaker 1: told the Daily Beast that the decision to separate the
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Speaker 1: cases may prove to benefit Vallow as her team sets
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Speaker 1: out to convince a jury that she is not responsible
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Speaker 1: for the grisly crimes. Daybell, a former gravedigger turned Mormon
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Speaker 1: apocalyptic novelist, is set to stand trial after Vallow and
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Speaker 1: faces the death penalty. And I'll tell you what, if
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Speaker 1: anybody has ever deserved the death penalty... It certainly seems
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Speaker 1: like it's going to be Chad Daybell if he is
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Speaker 1: guilty of the crimes that he's being accused of here.
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Speaker 1: And in my opinion, he is. Then he definitely deserves
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Speaker 1: the death penalty. And hopefully Idaho gives it to him
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Speaker 1: and then not only gives it to him, but they
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Speaker 1: carry it out. As far as this helping Lori Vallow,
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Speaker 1: I kind of think it's the other way around. I
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Speaker 1: think that with Chad Daybell's legal team being able to
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Speaker 1: get an idea of what the prosecution has, I think
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Speaker 1: that gives them a better chance to defend their client.
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Speaker 1: With her going first, Lori Vallow, the state is going
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Speaker 1: to unveil all of their charges, and they're going to
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Speaker 1: be very similar to what Chad Daybell has. Now, I'm
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Speaker 1: sure there'll be a few different ones thrown in there.
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Speaker 1: But for the most part, Daybell's lawyers are going to
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Speaker 1: be able to get a game plan by what happens
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Speaker 1: at this Lori Vallow trial. So in my opinion, I
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Speaker 1: think Chad Daybell is coming out of this whole entire
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Speaker 1: ordeal with a bit of a legal advantage, if you will.
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Speaker 1: Already the defense is trying to push against the prosecution's
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Speaker 1: allegations against Vallow. And paint her as a kind and
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Speaker 1: loving mother with some counter-cultural ideas. Oh yeah, well, I
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Speaker 1: have to tell you, that's a little more than counter-cultural, okay?
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Speaker 1: It's a big difference from your mom being some kind
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Speaker 1: of naturalist hippie, walking around, you know, with dreadlocks in
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Speaker 1: her hair. listening to the Grateful Dead, whatever it is.
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Speaker 1: And then you compare that to Lori Vallow and the
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Speaker 1: doomsday bullshit, and that's apples and oranges in my opinion.
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Speaker 1: Countercultural ideas? How about we just call it what it is, okay?
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Speaker 1: Batshit crazy LARPing. Because that's what it is. A bunch
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Speaker 1: of people making pretend they're wizards and warlocks and goddesses.
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Speaker 1: It's like a bad episode of YouTube-produced Dungeons & Dragons.
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Speaker 1: The evidence will show Lori had an interest in religion,
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Speaker 1: especially the end of times, defense lawyer Jim Archibald said
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Speaker 1: during opening statements last week. Some people could care less
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Speaker 1: about biblical prophecies. Some people care a lot about it. Thankfully,
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Speaker 1: in this country, we get the freedom to choose. We
6:28
Speaker 1: sure do, but we don't get the freedom to kill
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Speaker 1: our babies. We don't get the freedom to kill our
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Speaker 1: husband if we want to be with somebody else. And
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Speaker 1: I don't care what your religion says about it. Throughout
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Speaker 1: the first week of trial, however, prosecutor seemed to hone
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Speaker 1: in on Vallow's religion, calling her former sister-in-law and one-time
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Speaker 1: best friend to the stand to discuss the mother's faith,
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Speaker 1: which was filled with apocalyptic scenarios, fears of zombies, and
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Speaker 1: belief that she and Chad Daybell were set to be
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Speaker 1: the leaders for the second coming of Jesus Christ. Carol Lieberman,
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Speaker 1: a forensic psychiatrist, who has previously testified in murder trials,
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Speaker 1: believes the decision to bring in Vallow and Daybell's religion
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Speaker 1: early is a strategic move because it leaves the defense
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Speaker 1: with few options for their case. She's not wrong about that.
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Speaker 1: And plus, it's the hardest hitting piece of evidence here.
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Speaker 1: This is what motivated them. This is what their whole
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Speaker 1: entire operation was based around, these beliefs. So they have
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Speaker 1: to be a focal point, a center point of the trial.
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Speaker 1: The defense attorneys in Lori Vallow Daybell's case may have
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Speaker 1: an uphill battle, Lieberman told the Daily Beast. Oh, they may, huh?
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Speaker 1: Of course they do. 100% without a doubt, an uphill climb.
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Speaker 1: The question is whether Lori truly believed these ideas or
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Speaker 1: whether she was just pretending to believe them in order
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Speaker 1: to use them as an excuse to get rid of
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Speaker 1: people who are making it less convenient for her to
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Speaker 1: go off into the sunset with Chad Daybell. And I
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Speaker 1: believe that's exactly what happened. Was there some of the
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Speaker 1: believing in this nonsense? Oh, I'm sure there was some
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Speaker 1: of that too. But at the end of the day,
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Speaker 1: this is nothing more than a human being chasing down
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Speaker 1: their carnal desires. It has nothing to do with gods
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Speaker 1: or demons or anything like that. Johnson noted that it
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Speaker 1: would be a losing argument to try to convince jurors
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Speaker 1: that Vallow's beliefs are normal and stress that the best
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Speaker 1: counter-argument would be to focus the blame on Daybell and
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Speaker 1: her mental health. The mental health aspect is not going
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Speaker 1: to cut it here. Her best bet is to blame
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Speaker 1: Alex Cox and Chad Daybell. And again, I'm not saying
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Speaker 1: that if I was a juror, I'd buy that. But
8:43
Speaker 1: as far as a path to victory here, that's the
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Speaker 1: only one that I can see. Probably the most famous
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Speaker 1: cult murders are the Charles Manson girls. But in those cases,
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Speaker 1: the defendants were still under Manson's influence and were not
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Speaker 1: willing to point the finger at Manson. The defense attorney said,
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Speaker 1: noting that it may have been a mistake for Vallow's
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Speaker 1: defense attorney to tell the jury last week they're only
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Speaker 1: to focus on Lori's actions, not on Chad's. I think
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Speaker 1: that's a bit difficult to do, but they have to,
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Speaker 1: as a jury, do that, because it's not Chad Daybell
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Speaker 1: who is on trial here. The defense, however, may pivot
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Speaker 1: their argument after last week's testimony. Melanie Gibb, who met
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Speaker 1: Vallow at a church event in 2018, detailed the jurors
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Speaker 1: on the stand, how her former friend's religious beliefs intensified
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Speaker 1: after she met Daybell at a Utah conference. At the
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Speaker 1: first meeting, Gibb said, Vallow revealed that she and Daybell
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Speaker 1: were meant to be together despite already being married to
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Speaker 1: other people. Gibb also explained how Vallow believed she and
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Speaker 1: Daybell were among the 144,000 people who would be on
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Speaker 1: earth when Jesus Christ returned. Soon, she said, Valo began
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Speaker 1: to preach about a light and dark scale and that
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Speaker 1: if a person had turned dark, they would become a zombie.
10:02
Speaker 1: Wasn't that on episode 476 of season 14,000 of The
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Speaker 1: Walking Dead? When Lori met Chad, she was smitten and
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Speaker 1: willing to do whatever it took to snare him. Chad
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Speaker 1: felt the same, Lieberman said, so it was easy for
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Speaker 1: them to allegedly... use their quasi-delusions to kill and to
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Speaker 1: convince others to do their dirty work. That's 100% in
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Speaker 1: line with what I think. They use this religious shit,
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Speaker 1: the basis of this religion that they created, to rope
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Speaker 1: in people like Alex Cox. And then people like Alex
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Speaker 1: Cox who were easily manipulated were easily manipulated into thinking
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Speaker 1: that there's some kind of warrior from God and their
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Speaker 1: job was to go out here and clip people and
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Speaker 1: do a bunch of wet work for Lori Vallow and
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Speaker 1: Chad Daybell. So this religion of theirs was just a
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Speaker 1: convenient throw in so that Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow
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Speaker 1: could be together and they could get other people to
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Speaker 1: do their dirty work. That is exactly what the prosecution
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Speaker 1: is alleging here. Vallow would eventually reveal that she believed
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Speaker 1: her former husband, Charles, was one of her brothers, and
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Speaker 1: two of her children were considered dark. Charles Daybell was
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Speaker 1: ultimately killed by Lori's brother, Alex Cox, in July 2019,
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Speaker 1: who claimed self-defense before he died of a blood clot
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Speaker 1: months later. And like I said a million times at
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Speaker 1: this point, I don't know if I buy the whole
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Speaker 1: blood clot story, and the two main reasons for me
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Speaker 1: anyway not believing that is one, he had Narcan in
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Speaker 1: his system, And two, he died with a pink foam
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Speaker 1: coming out of his mouth in the same exact manner
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Speaker 1: as Tammy Daybell. I mean, I guess it could be
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Speaker 1: a coincidence, but it seems like quite the coincidence if
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Speaker 1: you ask me. Zulema Pastanis, who was briefly married to Cox,
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Speaker 1: also described the religion she once shared with Vallow and
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Speaker 1: Daybell in detail on the stand. She testified that Vallow
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Speaker 1: would boast to her friends that she was visited by
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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ and that she believed two of her children
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Speaker 1: had been possessed and attacked by demons before their death.
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Speaker 1: Vallow also allegedly told Pastonists how to dispel or cast
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Speaker 1: out a possessed person and how Daybell would describe himself
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Speaker 1: as an important alkylite in their religious community. Oh yeah,
12:23
Speaker 1: big time alkylite. More like big time dumbass. Chad claimed,
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Speaker 1: He had been the Heavenly Father and Jesus and the
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Speaker 1: Holy Ghost, Pastinas said. He would have been spiritually the
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Speaker 1: highest of anybody. He had chosen Valo to be his wife,
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Speaker 1: and they had already been seven times before on this earth.
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Speaker 1: That was his companion, and therefore put her in the
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Speaker 1: same spiritual standing. Oh yeah, because none of this is
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Speaker 1: just insane. So I was God and Jesus in my
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Speaker 1: past life. So I think it's a good idea for
12:56
Speaker 1: you to do whatever I tell you to do. Now
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Speaker 1: get up there and get involved in a casting. In
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Speaker 1: the words of my grandfather, Notably, Vallow's team cannot plead
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Speaker 1: insanity in this case because the state of Idaho does
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Speaker 1: not have a formal defense for it after it was
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Speaker 1: repealed in 1982. A potential mental illness, however, could still
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Speaker 1: be used as a factor in sentencing. Johnson said that
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Speaker 1: for Vallow to prevail in court, her team will need
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Speaker 1: to convince a jury that she is not a doomsday
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Speaker 1: zealot who believes she was a prophet, but just very
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Speaker 1: mentally ill. The case was already put on hold because
13:35
Speaker 1: Vallow was found incompetent to stand trial, Johnson noted. Because
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Speaker 1: she and Daybell are being tried separately, her team can
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Speaker 1: point to Daybell as a Svengali who preyed on Vallow,
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Speaker 1: getting her to do what she would not have done
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Speaker 1: without her mental illness and his influence. Hey, look, I'm
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Speaker 1: not saying that won't work as a strategy. The question is,
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Speaker 1: is Lori Vallow willing to throw he who suffers fuckface-itis,
14:01
Speaker 1: Chad Daybell, under the bus? Because as of now, and
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Speaker 1: up to now, that hasn't been the case. So if
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Speaker 1: she changes her strategy and decides to do that, then
14:11
Speaker 1: she might have a way out here. But besides that,
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Speaker 1: if she keeps going down this road, she's toast. She's
14:17
Speaker 1: done good. And there's no defense that's going to save
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Speaker 1: her because the evidence is a mile high. So without
14:23
Speaker 1: her pointing the finger at Chad Daybell and pointing it
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Speaker 1: at Alex Cox, my prediction is she's going to be
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Speaker 1: found guilty. But we'll be here as it all unfolds, folks,
14:34
Speaker 1: covering it each and every day. And today, the trial
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Speaker 1: picks back up. So we'll have the same as we've
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Speaker 1: had the past week, each day with the commentary from
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Speaker 1: the courtroom, and we'll see where everything goes. As for
14:48
Speaker 1: this one, that's going to do it. All of the
14:50
Speaker 1: information that goes with the episode can be found in
14:54
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up everyone and welcome back to
14:57
Speaker 1: the program. Lori Vallow's only surviving child, Colby Ryan, gave
15:03
Speaker 1: heartbreaking testimony during his time on the witness stand at
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Speaker 1: his mother Lori Vallow's trial on Tuesday. And in this episode,
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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that testimony a little bit
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Speaker 1: more and how damning it is for Lori Vallow. Because
15:18
Speaker 1: like the other phone calls that have been recorded and
15:22
Speaker 1: introduced as evidence, it's not looking good. When you start
15:26
Speaker 1: putting all the pieces together of what has been said
15:29
Speaker 1: and you follow those threads as far as the people involved,
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Speaker 1: it all ties back to Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell.
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Speaker 1: And it's not only circumstantial evidence. It's these phone calls,
15:42
Speaker 1: it's the witness statements, and it's everything else that's been
15:45
Speaker 1: presented thus far by the prosecution. And in my estimation,
15:49
Speaker 1: the prosecution has had a stellar start to these proceedings.
15:54
Speaker 1: So let's get to this article from People Magazine, and
15:57
Speaker 1: let's talk about Colby Ryan's testimony a little more. Headline,
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Speaker 1: Lori Vallow Daybell laughed on phone call when son confronted
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Speaker 1: her about siblings. You ripped my heart out. This article
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Speaker 1: was authored by Nicole Acosta and Corin Cesarek. During the
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Speaker 1: second week of testimony at Lori Vallow Daybell's ongoing murder trial,
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Speaker 1: a jailhouse phone call between her and her surviving son,
16:25
Speaker 1: Colby Ryan, was played for the jury. In it, Ryan
16:29
Speaker 1: is emotional as he questions his mother about his slain siblings,
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Speaker 1: whose remains were found in June 2020. And not just that,
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Speaker 1: but found on Chad Daybell's property. How did they get there?
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Speaker 1: Can somebody explain that to me? That's what I'd be
16:45
Speaker 1: saying if I was Colby Ryan. You mean to tell me, Mom,
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Speaker 1: that my brother and my sister ended up dead? Somebody,
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Speaker 1: some stranger killed them and then brought them back to
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Speaker 1: Chad Daybell's property to bury them? Is that what you're
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Speaker 1: trying to tell me? Hi, Colby, Lori says on the call.
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Speaker 1: Ryan then asks his mother if she is hiding from him.
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Speaker 1: She responds that Ryan... is the one who didn't want
17:08
Speaker 1: to talk to her. Then Ryan says, probably because you
17:12
Speaker 1: murdered my siblings. Now, as a juror, if you're sitting
17:15
Speaker 1: there in the box, what do you think when you
17:18
Speaker 1: hear that from Lori Vallow's son? I know that as
17:21
Speaker 1: a juror, I'd be listening very intently to what Colby
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Speaker 1: Ryan has to say here. Mom, you've been shoving BS
17:30
Speaker 1: up my throat for a long time. Ryan can be
17:32
Speaker 1: heard saying later in the phone call, I can't tell
17:35
Speaker 1: you the amount of pain I felt from your decisions.
17:38
Speaker 1: And when you listen to the phone call, you could
17:40
Speaker 1: hear the pain in this kid's voice. It is absolutely
17:44
Speaker 1: atrocious what this poor dude had to go through. And
17:46
Speaker 1: then in that documentary, Sins of the Mother on Netflix,
17:50
Speaker 1: you can tell how bad this dude's suffering. I mean,
17:53
Speaker 1: it is just almost unimaginable to think about your whole
17:56
Speaker 1: entire family basically being snuffed out just like that. And
18:01
Speaker 1: not only your siblings being murdered, but your mother, the
18:04
Speaker 1: one accused of it. So now you don't have your
18:07
Speaker 1: stepdad anymore. He's been murdered. Your two siblings, well, they're dead.
18:11
Speaker 1: And the person who raised you, the person that you
18:14
Speaker 1: trusted the most, I would guess throughout your life, your
18:17
Speaker 1: mother is being accused of killing your brother and sister.
18:21
Speaker 1: The mental anguish that you must feel in a situation
18:25
Speaker 1: like that must be so massive that it manifests into
18:29
Speaker 1: actual physical pain. Lori is currently on trial on accusations
18:34
Speaker 1: she murdered her two children, Joshua J.J. Vallow, 7, and
18:38
Speaker 1: Tylee Ryan, 16, and conspired to murder her fifth husband's wife,
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Speaker 1: Tammy Daybell. And when you hear the testimony that Zulema
18:46
Speaker 1: had given us and Melanie about the whole entire situation
18:50
Speaker 1: with Tammy and Lori's reaction in the aftermath of that,
18:54
Speaker 1: that is very, very damning for Lori Vallow. And in fact,
18:58
Speaker 1: there hasn't been one thing presented So far in this trial,
19:02
Speaker 1: that has been a positive for Lori Vallow. And I
19:05
Speaker 1: know that her defense hasn't had their shot yet, but
19:08
Speaker 1: even on cross-examination, they haven't really been able to trip
19:12
Speaker 1: up any of these witnesses. And that's because the evidence
19:16
Speaker 1: is pretty rock solid, folks. I truly don't see how
19:19
Speaker 1: Lori Vallow is going to get off here. When you
19:22
Speaker 1: have the people that are the closest to you giving
19:24
Speaker 1: these less than flattering accounts of who you are time
19:28
Speaker 1: and time again, You gotta think that the jury is
19:31
Speaker 1: paying attention to all of that. JJ and Tylee went
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Speaker 1: missing in September 2019. Tammy, Chad Daybell's first wife, died
19:41
Speaker 1: in the home she shared with Chad on October 19th
19:44
Speaker 1: of that same year. Two weeks later, on November 5th,
19:48
Speaker 1: Lori and Chad, an author, who wrote about religious doomsday scenarios,
19:52
Speaker 1: married in Hawaii. On June 9th, 2020, the badly decomposed
19:57
Speaker 1: remains of Tylee and JJ were found buried on Chad's
20:01
Speaker 1: Idaho property. Tylee had been dismembered and burned, JJ was
20:06
Speaker 1: wrapped in plastic and bound by duct tape. Now again,
20:10
Speaker 1: think about Colby Ryan, sitting there, listening to all of
20:13
Speaker 1: this testimony about how his siblings were found, what was
20:16
Speaker 1: done to them, and the all-around horrific nature in which
20:20
Speaker 1: it was all carried out, and they're telling you that
20:22
Speaker 1: it's your mom who is responsible. I'd want to dig
20:26
Speaker 1: a hole all the way down as deep as it
20:28
Speaker 1: could go and climb right into it. The following day,
20:33
Speaker 1: Lori and Chad were charged with multiple charges, including concealment
20:37
Speaker 1: of evidence. In May 2021, they were both indicted on
20:42
Speaker 1: murder charges in connection with the deaths of JJ, Tylee,
20:46
Speaker 1: and Tammy, whose body was previously exhumed for an autopsy
20:51
Speaker 1: to be conducted. They have both pleaded not guilty to
20:54
Speaker 1: all of the charges against them. I have prayed for
20:58
Speaker 1: you in my worst moments, Kobe says during the call.
21:01
Speaker 1: I have prayed for my siblings, who you swore to
21:03
Speaker 1: me were okay. I thought I could trust you. I
21:07
Speaker 1: thought that you were a completely different person. And the
21:10
Speaker 1: shattering of that trust, that bond between mother and child,
21:14
Speaker 1: that has to be real hard. Because you have to
21:16
Speaker 1: think that Colby Ryan, he didn't want to believe any
21:19
Speaker 1: of this about his mother when he first heard all
21:22
Speaker 1: of this. You have to think that he thought that
21:24
Speaker 1: there was a big mistake and there's no way that
21:26
Speaker 1: my mother, the person who loved me my whole life,
21:29
Speaker 1: protected me, could be capable of doing something like this.
21:33
Speaker 1: But as the evidence becomes clear, a whole different picture
21:38
Speaker 1: starts to emerge. And what that picture shows is something
21:42
Speaker 1: completely different from the image of your mother that you
21:45
Speaker 1: had in your mind. So the conflict that Kobe Ryan
21:49
Speaker 1: must be feeling has to be immense. You've known me
21:53
Speaker 1: your whole life, Lori says. I don't know a murderous mother,
21:56
Speaker 1: Ryan responds. You've lied to me more times than I
22:00
Speaker 1: can count about this, Ryan says. I've tried my best
22:04
Speaker 1: to forgive you, he adds. Forgive you and Chad. My
22:07
Speaker 1: heart was broken by my own mother. What are you doing?
22:10
Speaker 1: And he's a better man than me. There'd be no
22:12
Speaker 1: forgiving Chad, forget it. In fact, I wouldn't be allowed
22:15
Speaker 1: to be in the same room as somebody like that.
22:17
Speaker 1: If it was my family that this happened to, somebody
22:20
Speaker 1: killed my siblings, forget it. Like I've said a million times,
22:23
Speaker 1: I'd have to watch from a remote area because I
22:26
Speaker 1: couldn't be in the same room as the person who
22:28
Speaker 1: did this. I'd end up getting a jail cell right
22:30
Speaker 1: next to him. Lori responds, they think they know what happened.
22:34
Speaker 1: They think they know who is responsible. One day you
22:37
Speaker 1: will know what actually happened. Yeah, well, Lori, that day
22:40
Speaker 1: is here. Colby then tells his mother that God will
22:44
Speaker 1: punish her for what she has done. Then Lori is
22:46
Speaker 1: heard laughing on the call. And Ryan asked, is this funny?
22:50
Speaker 1: I love you, Lori responds. I always will. One day
22:53
Speaker 1: you will understand. I don't have anything else to say.
22:57
Speaker 1: You weren't there. Summer wasn't there. JJ and Tylee know
23:01
Speaker 1: exactly what happened. They love me, and they are still together.
23:04
Speaker 1: They know the truth. Go ahead and judge me. I'm
23:07
Speaker 1: the one that knows. Well, we're going to judge you, Lori,
23:10
Speaker 1: like I said in the other episode. You better believe it,
23:12
Speaker 1: and you better not worry about Kobe judging you or
23:15
Speaker 1: me judging you. You better worry about what this jury
23:18
Speaker 1: says when they judge you. The emotional phone call continued,
23:23
Speaker 1: and at one point, Ryan yells, Ryan says during the call,
23:37
Speaker 1: I pray every day, no matter how mad I am
23:39
Speaker 1: at you, no matter how bad I want to hit
23:41
Speaker 1: your husband in the face with a shovel, I pray
23:44
Speaker 1: for you. I pray for him. You ripped my heart out.
23:47
Speaker 1: You ripped everyone's heart out. Lori's current trial is ongoing.
23:51
Speaker 1: In March, it was ruled that she will not face
23:54
Speaker 1: the death penalty in the slayings. She faces life in
23:57
Speaker 1: prison if convicted. Chad Daybell will be tried at a
24:01
Speaker 1: separate time. And Chad Daybell, remember, he is facing the
24:05
Speaker 1: death penalty for these crimes. Lori Vallow had to do
24:08
Speaker 1: with her mental competency. And honestly, I agree with that.
24:12
Speaker 1: She's obviously not playing with a full deck, folks. Now, again,
24:16
Speaker 1: I'm not saying she's insane and she didn't know what
24:18
Speaker 1: she was doing, but she most certainly is crazy as hell.
24:22
Speaker 1: There is no doubt in my mind about that. Anyone
24:25
Speaker 1: who believes in the stuff that these people believed in,
24:28
Speaker 1: I think they're crazy. But crazy is not a defense
24:32
Speaker 1: in a court of law. Unless you are criminally insane...
24:35
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear about it. You can be
24:37
Speaker 1: as crazy as you want, but the fact is you
24:40
Speaker 1: knew what you were doing. You knew that killing those
24:42
Speaker 1: children was wrong. And Lori and Chad's actions after the
24:46
Speaker 1: fact prove that point. If you were criminally insane, you
24:50
Speaker 1: wouldn't be hiding because you wouldn't know you did anything wrong.
24:53
Speaker 1: Chad and Lori, however, they knew that what they did
24:56
Speaker 1: was not only wrong, but it was evil. And they
25:00
Speaker 1: know that those children being killed was going to lead
25:03
Speaker 1: directly to them. And because of that, they took steps
25:06
Speaker 1: to try and hide their tracks. And once that happens,
25:10
Speaker 1: out the window with criminally insane. Now, if you want
25:12
Speaker 1: to call them crazy, fine, I'm on board with that.
25:15
Speaker 1: But both of them certainly knew what they were doing.
25:17
Speaker 1: And both of them now need to pay the price
25:20
Speaker 1: when the train of justice comes rumbling down the tracks.
25:24
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
25:26
Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with the episode can
25:28
Speaker 1: be found in the description box. What's up everyone and
25:33
Speaker 1: welcome back to the program. In this episode, we're going
25:36
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit more about Lori Vallow Daybell
25:40
Speaker 1: and learn a little bit more about her and her
25:43
Speaker 1: relationship with her friend, Melanie Gibb. So let's just dive
25:48
Speaker 1: right into this article and let's continue to add some context. Headline,
25:53
Speaker 1: Lori Daybell's best friend reveals the moment it all changed.
25:57
Speaker 1: It was like a bomb dropping. This article was authored
26:01
Speaker 1: by Alberto Luperon, and it was originally published on June
26:06
Speaker 1: 22nd of 2020. Key witness Melanie Gibb says that her
26:11
Speaker 1: friendship with Lori Daybell started falling apart because of the
26:15
Speaker 1: lies Daybell told about the whereabouts of Joshua J.J. Vallow,
26:20
Speaker 1: the missing seven-year-old boy who has since been confirmed dead
26:24
Speaker 1: by Idaho authorities. It's like a bomb drops on you.
26:27
Speaker 1: Gibb told Dateline host Keith Morrison in an interview scheduled
26:30
Speaker 1: to air Monday at 10 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. She continues,
26:35
Speaker 1: What do you do? You were just in shock a
26:38
Speaker 1: little bit. Well, weren't you part of the whole entire
26:41
Speaker 1: Doomsday Cult with your friend Lori over there? I mean,
26:45
Speaker 1: you weren't concerned when you were talking about zombies and
26:48
Speaker 1: the end of the world? and 144,000 people picked by
26:53
Speaker 1: Dumbass and Lori Vallow were going to be the last
26:56
Speaker 1: people on Earth representing Jesus Christ, none of that was crazy,
27:00
Speaker 1: because that's the sort of stuff that they were sitting
27:02
Speaker 1: around talking about all the time at their little fireside chats.
27:07
Speaker 1: Gibbs' name will be familiar for people who have followed
27:10
Speaker 1: the disappearance and deaths of J.J. Vallow and his sister
27:13
Speaker 1: Tylee Ryan, who were 7 and 17 years old, when
27:17
Speaker 1: they went missing in September of 2019. Gibbs cited as
27:22
Speaker 1: a key witness in the desertion complaint against the kid's mother,
27:26
Speaker 1: Lori Daybell, and in the other complaint for destruction of
27:29
Speaker 1: evidence against the defendant's new husband, Chad Daybell. Now remember,
27:33
Speaker 1: Melanie Gibb was the person who Lori Vallow said had
27:37
Speaker 1: her kids, and we all know now, and knew then, honestly,
27:40
Speaker 1: that wasn't the case. And Melanie Gibb never had those children.
27:45
Speaker 1: Those children were murdered. As previously reported, police said they
27:50
Speaker 1: started investigating the children's whereabouts in November of 2019, when
27:55
Speaker 1: grandmother Kay Woodcock requested a welfare check. Cops couldn't find them,
28:00
Speaker 1: and the Daybells allegedly lied and were evasive. Lori in
28:04
Speaker 1: particular claimed JJ was with Gibb in Gilbert, Arizona. And
28:08
Speaker 1: I mean, did she really think that this Melanie Gibb
28:11
Speaker 1: lady was going to cover for her? I guess she
28:13
Speaker 1: might have. considering they were all part of that same
28:16
Speaker 1: little group, sitting around talking about all of that nonsensical BS.
28:21
Speaker 1: So maybe she thought that, you know, as a true believer,
28:24
Speaker 1: that she'd have her back. Well, breaking news, that's not
28:27
Speaker 1: the case. And I always find it tasty when a
28:30
Speaker 1: scumbag's own friends or their own people turn on them.
28:34
Speaker 1: But Gibbs said that wasn't true. Joshua wasn't staying with her,
28:38
Speaker 1: and he hadn't even been there for months. She said
28:40
Speaker 1: that Lori and Chad separately called her, on November 26th
28:44
Speaker 1: and asked her to tell the cops that Joshua was
28:47
Speaker 1: with her, even though that wasn't true, according to the complaint.
28:51
Speaker 1: Gibb rejected the requests. This allegation is why Lori Daybell
28:56
Speaker 1: faces a count of misdemeanor solicitation to commit resisting and
29:00
Speaker 1: or obstructing an officer. Lori called and said, hey, everything's fine,
29:05
Speaker 1: Gibb told Dateline. I told them JJ was with you.
29:09
Speaker 1: And in Lori's mind, she's thinking, she has the all-powerful
29:13
Speaker 1: Chad Dumbbell in her corner, and Gibb is one of their,
29:17
Speaker 1: you know, sycophants, if you will. So everything's going to
29:20
Speaker 1: work out great here. Don't worry, we have the power
29:23
Speaker 1: of God, and we have the power of this one
29:25
Speaker 1: and that one on our side. And to show you
29:27
Speaker 1: that I have that power, let me go do a
29:29
Speaker 1: little dance in front of the mirror. Morrison asked if
29:32
Speaker 1: this was the moment that changed it all for her. Oh, absolutely,
29:37
Speaker 1: Gibb answered. I can't even begin to tell you how
29:40
Speaker 1: horrible that moment was for me. I mean, okay, I
29:43
Speaker 1: get it. That has to be crazy. Someone calls and
29:46
Speaker 1: says to you, look, I want you to say that
29:48
Speaker 1: my kids are with you. Right away, you're saying to yourself,
29:51
Speaker 1: no freaking way, zero chance. And in fact, I'm three-waying
29:54
Speaker 1: the cops while you're on the phone. But Melanie Gibb,
29:58
Speaker 1: being part of that little crew they had, Lori was
30:01
Speaker 1: thinking that maybe, just maybe, this would work. And thankfully,
30:05
Speaker 1: whether it be by epiphany or whatever, Melanie saw the
30:09
Speaker 1: light here and decided not to play ball with these
30:11
Speaker 1: two psychos. Because if she did, if Melanie Gibb would
30:14
Speaker 1: have said, yeah, the kid's here, or whatever, she would
30:18
Speaker 1: have been caught up in this and considered an accessory
30:21
Speaker 1: and not a witness. Asked if the Daybells betrayed her,
30:25
Speaker 1: she said yes. They tried to use me as their
30:28
Speaker 1: way of escape, she said. So part of me is processing.
30:31
Speaker 1: I can't believe you're friends with these people. The other
30:34
Speaker 1: part of me is like, how do you even believe
30:36
Speaker 1: any of the things they shared to you? Well, that's
30:39
Speaker 1: the question I have, Melanie Gibb. I mean, come on.
30:42
Speaker 1: How is anyone going to sit around with this dumb bell,
30:45
Speaker 1: Chad Daybell, and believe anything that this idiot is trying
30:48
Speaker 1: to tell them? Bro shows up in his mom jeans
30:51
Speaker 1: and his new balance and his goofy-ass button-up shirt talking about, oh,
30:55
Speaker 1: it's the end of the world. It truly boggles the
30:58
Speaker 1: mind how anyone could fall under the spell of people
31:01
Speaker 1: like this. Gibb previously disowned her friendship with the Daybells
31:06
Speaker 1: in a seven-page letter warning others not to make the
31:09
Speaker 1: same mistakes. Judging by the police account, Gibb and her boyfriend,
31:14
Speaker 1: David Warwick, would have been some of the last people
31:17
Speaker 1: to see J.J. before he went missing. They stayed at
31:20
Speaker 1: Lori Daybell's new home in Rexburg, Idaho. The weekend the
31:23
Speaker 1: seven-year-old boy disappeared, cops said. So remember, Melanie Gibb, for
31:28
Speaker 1: all of her hubbub here, was hanging out with these
31:32
Speaker 1: people right up to the point where J.J. and Tylee
31:35
Speaker 1: were killed. And then in the aftermath of all of that,
31:39
Speaker 1: when the walls start to close in, It becomes a
31:41
Speaker 1: whole different story, right? Oh, I don't know how I
31:44
Speaker 1: believed anything they were sharing with me. Well, you believed
31:47
Speaker 1: it because you're gullible. How about that? They and Lori
31:50
Speaker 1: Vallow were going to do a podcast, but JJ was
31:53
Speaker 1: acting up. So the boy's uncle, Alex Cox, took the
31:57
Speaker 1: child to his nearby apartment in the same complex. When
32:01
Speaker 1: Alex returned later that night, he was carrying JJ, who
32:04
Speaker 1: appeared to be asleep, with his head on Alex's shoulder.
32:07
Speaker 1: Warwick specifically remembered this because he saw it as a
32:10
Speaker 1: tender moment. And the rage is real. Every time I
32:13
Speaker 1: think about this beaver-faced son of a bitch, Alex Cox,
32:16
Speaker 1: hurting this little boy after being, you know, somebody this
32:20
Speaker 1: little boy trusted. Oh, it's my uncle. He'd never hurt me.
32:23
Speaker 1: I can trust him. This is a boy with learning disabilities.
32:26
Speaker 1: He has autism. And this is how you do him, huh?
32:29
Speaker 1: This is what you do? If there is a hell, folks, okay,
32:34
Speaker 1: Alex Beaverface Cock is burning in the very, very bottom
32:38
Speaker 1: level of it. And I hope his bitch-ass wannabe Jamie
32:41
Speaker 1: Lannister ass saves some room for his sister and Chad Daybell,
32:45
Speaker 1: because that's where they're going, too. According to officials, Warwick
32:50
Speaker 1: woke up in the morning of September 23, 2019. He
32:54
Speaker 1: asked Lori Vallow where Joshua was between 8 and 9 a.m.
32:58
Speaker 1: The mother, who allegedly told Gib before that JJ and
33:02
Speaker 1: Tylee had become zombies, told a disturbing story. From the affidavit.
33:08
Speaker 1: Lori informed Warwick and Gib that JJ had been acting
33:11
Speaker 1: like a zombie and had been crawling on the kitchen
33:14
Speaker 1: cabinetry and had gotten on top of the cabinetry in
33:17
Speaker 1: the space between the cabinetry and the ceiling. So he's
33:20
Speaker 1: being a little boy. I can't tell you how much
33:23
Speaker 1: nonsense I got into as a kid. I was everywhere.
33:26
Speaker 1: I was always involved in some kind of bullshit. Because
33:29
Speaker 1: guess what? That's what little kids do. She informed Warwick
33:32
Speaker 1: and Gibb that when JJ had climbed upon the cabinetry,
33:36
Speaker 1: that he had knocked a picture of Jesus off the refrigerator.
33:39
Speaker 1: Vallow then informed Warwick and Gibb that Alex had come
33:43
Speaker 1: and taken JJ. So JJ's big sin was to climb
33:46
Speaker 1: up on the cabinetry and knock a picture of Jesus
33:49
Speaker 1: Christ off of the refrigerator? So that's a death sentence
33:53
Speaker 1: for this little boy, huh? Over there in the Doomsday
33:55
Speaker 1: Cult with Lori Vallow, Beaverface Cox, and Chad Dumbbell. And
34:00
Speaker 1: as far as Gibb and Warwick, that doesn't sound odd
34:04
Speaker 1: to you folks as you're there hearing about all of
34:06
Speaker 1: this stuff? What do you mean he's in trouble for
34:09
Speaker 1: climbing on the cabinet, Lori? That's what kids do. Tylee
34:12
Speaker 1: Ryan was last seen during a September 8th family trip
34:16
Speaker 1: to Yellowstone National Park, joined by her mother, little brother,
34:20
Speaker 1: and Alex Cox. J.J. Vallow went missing days later on
34:24
Speaker 1: the 23rd. So what's the common denominator here besides Lori Vallow, folks?
34:29
Speaker 1: Every single time one of these kids turned up missing
34:32
Speaker 1: and ended up dead, Alex Cox was around. Police said
34:37
Speaker 1: cell phone data puts Cox by the location, their grave
34:40
Speaker 1: sites on Chad Daybell's property on September 9th and 23rd.
34:45
Speaker 1: Cops also mentioned that the uncle was laid at Lori's
34:48
Speaker 1: apartment between 2.42 a.m. and 3.37 a.m., significant because he
34:54
Speaker 1: was there in the middle of the night, and this
34:57
Speaker 1: was the only time he seemed to visit there between
34:59
Speaker 1: midnight and 6 a.m. in September of 2019, and of course, circumstantial, right?
35:06
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean anything on its own, really, but when you
35:10
Speaker 1: look at the big picture and you weave it all together,
35:13
Speaker 1: it tells a completely different story. And that story obviously
35:17
Speaker 1: is now that these babies were killed by Alex Cox,
35:21
Speaker 1: Lori Vallow, and Chad Daybell. Cox died in December, several
35:26
Speaker 1: months after shooting and killing Lori Daybell's ex-husband, Charles Vallow.
35:30
Speaker 1: A medical examiner's office in Maricopa County, Arizona, said Cox
35:35
Speaker 1: died from a blood clot. Police said they're still investigating. Well,
35:39
Speaker 1: I find it real odd that him and Tammy Daybell
35:42
Speaker 1: died the same exact way and they both had a
35:45
Speaker 1: pink fluid coming out of their mouths when they were
35:47
Speaker 1: found dead. And we know that Tammy Daybell's death was
35:51
Speaker 1: found to be a homicide while Alex Cox, they say,
35:54
Speaker 1: was a suicide. However, with the pink foam coming out
35:58
Speaker 1: of the mouth, the Narcan, and just the coincidence overall,
36:03
Speaker 1: I think we're going to need a little more context
36:04
Speaker 1: there and a lot more explanation. All right, folks, that's
36:09
Speaker 1: going to do it for this one. All of the
36:10
Speaker 1: information that goes with the episode can be found in
36:13
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to
36:17
Speaker 1: the program. In this episode, we're going to talk a
36:21
Speaker 1: little bit more about Lori Vallow, and we have an
36:24
Speaker 1: interview from John Glatt, the man who wrote The Doomsday Mother,
36:30
Speaker 1: a book about Lori Vallow. And he certainly has some
36:34
Speaker 1: very interesting things to say about Lori Vallow and this
36:38
Speaker 1: case overall. So let's dive into this article from the
36:41
Speaker 1: mirror and let's see what author Vassia Barba has for us. Headline,
36:48
Speaker 1: Cult Mom Lori Vallow, a narcissist? Convinced murdered kids were zombies,
36:54
Speaker 1: says author. The long-awaited trial of the so-called doomsday cult mom,
36:59
Speaker 1: Lori Vallow Daybell, has finally begun. as she comes to
37:03
Speaker 1: court charged with murdering her two children. The disturbing mystery
37:08
Speaker 1: of the alleged murders of her two children and the
37:11
Speaker 1: obscure religious scheme that her fifth husband, Chad Daybell, ran
37:15
Speaker 1: has captivated a nation and was subject of a hit
37:19
Speaker 1: Netflix show, Sins of Our Mother. And if you haven't
37:23
Speaker 1: watched that one yet, which I'm sure most of you
37:25
Speaker 1: have by now, I definitely suggest taking a couple of
37:27
Speaker 1: hours and sitting down and watching it. It gives a
37:30
Speaker 1: lot of background information on the stuff we've been talking about.
37:33
Speaker 1: And it certainly gives a little bit of a look-see
37:36
Speaker 1: behind the curtain. Now, of course, like any other documentary
37:40
Speaker 1: you're going to find on a place like Netflix, it's
37:43
Speaker 1: just a stepping stone. It's the door opening for you
37:46
Speaker 1: to take a look. And then from there, obviously, there's
37:49
Speaker 1: a ton of other information for you to learn. But
37:52
Speaker 1: you got to start somewhere. And usually those kinds of
37:55
Speaker 1: documentaries that Netflix or HBO put out are a good
37:59
Speaker 1: starting point. Depictions of the 49-year-old woman's profile vary from
38:04
Speaker 1: an evil, ruthless monster to an unstable, easily manipulated woman. Well,
38:10
Speaker 1: even if that's the case, in my opinion, that doesn't
38:13
Speaker 1: absolve her of what happened here. I don't care if
38:16
Speaker 1: you're easy to manipulate. You still have a duty to
38:21
Speaker 1: protect your children. And for you to try and use
38:24
Speaker 1: that as an excuse, oh, I was easily manipulated by
38:28
Speaker 1: Chad Daybell, That's not going to work out well for you. Now,
38:31
Speaker 1: you might score some points with some people in the
38:34
Speaker 1: general public, maybe. But the vast majority of people are
38:38
Speaker 1: going to look at that, roll their eyes and be
38:41
Speaker 1: sick about it. And I'm guessing that's going to go
38:44
Speaker 1: for the jurors as well. The case attracted major attention
38:48
Speaker 1: and publicity since the disappearance of the kids and then
38:52
Speaker 1: the shocking discovery of their remains in Daybell's property in
38:55
Speaker 1: Idaho in 2020. Her story became even more complex, with
39:00
Speaker 1: at least two more alleged murders involved, that of her husband,
39:04
Speaker 1: Charles Vallow, and the wife of Chad Daybell, Tammy Daybell,
39:08
Speaker 1: with which Lori is also charged. And I mean, how
39:12
Speaker 1: could you convince anybody that none of this is related?
39:15
Speaker 1: When all of this happens at the same time, and
39:18
Speaker 1: all of these people who are dying are just conveniently
39:22
Speaker 1: people that you need out of the way... Do you
39:24
Speaker 1: really think that the authorities aren't going to put the
39:27
Speaker 1: pieces together eventually? Especially if you kill the children. You know,
39:32
Speaker 1: if they never hurt those kids, they probably would have
39:35
Speaker 1: gotten away with this other stuff. But the second those
39:38
Speaker 1: kids were involved and people started looking for those children,
39:41
Speaker 1: it became a whole different story. Three years later, starting
39:45
Speaker 1: this week, all eyes are on the Ada County Courthouse
39:48
Speaker 1: in Idaho As jurors and the public await to see
39:52
Speaker 1: and listen all about how Lori ended up tied in
39:56
Speaker 1: with this tragedy. Well, I can tell you that's pretty simple.
39:59
Speaker 1: She ended up tied in with this tragedy because she
40:02
Speaker 1: helped create it. Let's not pussyfoot around here, okay? She
40:07
Speaker 1: helped create it. I don't care if Chad Daybell was
40:10
Speaker 1: the catalyst. She most certainly helped cook up all the
40:13
Speaker 1: dishes and she had her fingers in all the pies.
40:17
Speaker 1: I'm not sure she was an evil person. She may
40:20
Speaker 1: have been very easily manipulated, true crime author John Glatt
40:24
Speaker 1: told the Mirror. Well, Mr. Glatt certainly knows more about
40:27
Speaker 1: this case than I do, but it would seem to
40:30
Speaker 1: me that anyone who would allow this to happen is
40:33
Speaker 1: pretty evil. Now, she might not have had that evil
40:36
Speaker 1: face that we talk about that is shown to the world,
40:39
Speaker 1: but you have that other face, that hidden face. And
40:43
Speaker 1: I think that when we're talking about Lori Vallow, That
40:46
Speaker 1: her hidden face was one that was capable of this
40:50
Speaker 1: great evil. And all it took was Chad Daybell to
40:54
Speaker 1: help her bring that other face, if you will, to
40:56
Speaker 1: the surface. And then we saw the result. Because if
40:59
Speaker 1: Lori Vallow wasn't an evil person, she would have stopped
41:03
Speaker 1: Chad Daybell from hurting her children. But she didn't. And
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Speaker 1: we see the result of her inaction. And in fact,
41:12
Speaker 1: we see the result of her participation according to the government. Mr.
41:17
Speaker 1: Glatt dived deep into the perplexing story of Lori Vallow
41:21
Speaker 1: Daybell and researched the cult that Chad Daybell was running.
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Speaker 1: He interviewed as many close ones to the couple as
41:28
Speaker 1: he compiled their twisted tale, which he shared with the
41:32
Speaker 1: world in his latest book, The Doomsday Mother, published by
41:36
Speaker 1: Mirror Books. Asked how he feels now that the trial
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Speaker 1: has finally kicked off, Mr. Glatt said, I am very
41:43
Speaker 1: much looking forward to seeing what evidence the prosecution has
41:47
Speaker 1: because they have been so tight-lipped about everything over the
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Speaker 1: past four years. How do they think the alleged murders
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Speaker 1: were done? We don't even know, in fact, how the
41:58
Speaker 1: two children died. Well, I think we're getting a little
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Speaker 1: bit more about that after the testimony of Detective Hermosillo
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Speaker 1: about the dismemberment and the burning. Now, I'm not sure
42:10
Speaker 1: exactly what the cause of death is going to be.
42:13
Speaker 1: I'm not sure they revealed that yet. But considering the
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Speaker 1: state that the remains were found in, I'm sure it
42:19
Speaker 1: was grisly, and I'm sure it was gruesome. Mr. Glatt
42:24
Speaker 1: begins by pointing out that Lori Vallow Daybelt has exhibited
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Speaker 1: signs of incompetency, having been declared incompetent to stand trial
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Speaker 1: twice in the past. He told the Mirror, It's pretty
42:35
Speaker 1: amazing to be accused of killing your husband and your
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Speaker 1: two children, and then behave in the manner that Lori
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Speaker 1: Daybell has, such as giggling and wearing a lot of makeup,
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Speaker 1: including bright red lipstick, which she has apparently prepared behind bars.
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Speaker 1: So she has some homies behind bars that have helped
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Speaker 1: her out with her makeup and the hair and all
42:56
Speaker 1: of the rest of it. But you would think that
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Speaker 1: if you had nothing to do with your children being murdered,
43:02
Speaker 1: that would be the last thing you're worried about sitting
43:05
Speaker 1: in a courtroom. I'd be showing up, hair all disheveled,
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Speaker 1: looking like I haven't slept in 16 months, the whole thing.
43:13
Speaker 1: Imagine being accused wrongfully of murdering your children and not
43:18
Speaker 1: being absolutely vocal about it at every turn. I'd be
43:22
Speaker 1: trying to talk to every single newspaper on the planet, honestly,
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Speaker 1: and I'd tell my lawyers to shut the fuck up
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Speaker 1: about it, because if I was innocent and somebody accused
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Speaker 1: me of this, oh, you better believe the whole ass
43:33
Speaker 1: world would be hearing from me. The author suggests that
43:37
Speaker 1: her strange behavior... indicates that she is completely removed from
43:40
Speaker 1: the gravity of the situation. She had very low self-esteem,
43:45
Speaker 1: although she was a real narcissist. She was always trying
43:49
Speaker 1: to impress people. He said, she likes to present this
43:52
Speaker 1: fully beautiful package, but I think underneath, she was very,
43:55
Speaker 1: very insecure and very, very evil in my opinion. I
44:00
Speaker 1: don't think that anybody just turns on the dime after
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Speaker 1: they meet some knucklehead like Chad Daybell and then is
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Speaker 1: capable of doing something what Lori Vallow is alleged to
44:09
Speaker 1: have done. I think that those feelings were simmering below
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Speaker 1: the surface and Chad Daybell just helped bring them up
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Speaker 1: from the depths of Lori Vallow's black soul. This is why,
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Speaker 1: according to the author, Lori became so caught up in
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Speaker 1: Chad Daybell. He made her feel like she was special,
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Speaker 1: more than special, a goddess. You mean to tell me
44:30
Speaker 1: that Charles Vallow didn't make her feel special? Taking care
44:33
Speaker 1: of her the way he did? You know, buying her
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Speaker 1: whatever she wanted, making sure she had a dance room, this, that,
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Speaker 1: the other thing. But she wasn't taken care of? I
44:43
Speaker 1: don't buy that for a minute. I think it all
44:45
Speaker 1: had to do with Lori Vallow, and it all comes
44:47
Speaker 1: down to selfishness, right? When you're selfish and you want
44:51
Speaker 1: what you want, and you're a narcissist, you're going to
44:54
Speaker 1: do whatever you have to do to accomplish those goals. Mr.
44:58
Speaker 1: Glatt claimed, and then Chad, wanted to be with Lori
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Speaker 1: and thought of the children as impediments. Like, they were
45:05
Speaker 1: in the way. And he really wanted to try and
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Speaker 1: get rid of them. So he told Lori that they
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Speaker 1: were zombies, in fact. And that certainly rings true with me.
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Speaker 1: I've thought that from the very beginning, that Chad Daybell's
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Speaker 1: whole plan was to get rid of all of these
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Speaker 1: people around Lori Vallow and his wife because he wanted
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Speaker 1: to be with her. That's what it came down to.
45:25
Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with the Angel Moroni. It
45:28
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with God or Noah or anything else.
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Speaker 1: It had to do with the carnal desires of Chad
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Speaker 1: Daybell and Lori Vallow. This was nothing spiritual. This was
45:40
Speaker 1: nothing that God commanded. Chad Daybell wanted what he wanted.
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Speaker 1: And to get that, some people had to die and
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Speaker 1: get moved out of the way. And the easiest way
45:50
Speaker 1: to do that was to use their religion as a
45:53
Speaker 1: fulcrum here and then make people believe that he was
45:56
Speaker 1: some kind of prophet. And once the zealous believed something
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Speaker 1: like that, there are no lengths that they're not willing
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Speaker 1: to go. And as they were zombies, the only way
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Speaker 1: they could attain godliness was to actually murder their physical
46:09
Speaker 1: bodies so their spirits could be free. And I think
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Speaker 1: Lori and perhaps her brother, Alex Cox, who the police
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Speaker 1: believe did the actual murders, thought they were actually doing
46:20
Speaker 1: a favor to the children. And there is an element
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Speaker 1: of that, no doubt about it. But I try to
46:25
Speaker 1: be cautious because I don't want it to seem like
46:28
Speaker 1: All of the blame should just be on Chad Daybell. Sure,
46:32
Speaker 1: he should have a gigantic portion of it, right? But
46:36
Speaker 1: nobody forced Lori Vallow into this. And if she was
46:40
Speaker 1: manipulated or whatever, that's still no excuse. The fact that
46:45
Speaker 1: you listen to this dude who is obviously suffering from
46:48
Speaker 1: the newly discovered disease of fuckface-itis is just mind-boggling to me.
46:54
Speaker 1: and if you think you're going to get off by
46:56
Speaker 1: using the excuse of, oh, I had no idea what
46:59
Speaker 1: I was doing, Chad Daybell manipulated me, I don't think
47:03
Speaker 1: that's going to work. According to Mr. Glatt, even before
47:07
Speaker 1: she met Chad, Lori had a strong belief in the
47:09
Speaker 1: spirit world, and even believed she had been in contact
47:12
Speaker 1: with her deceased elder sister, Stacy. The author noted that
47:17
Speaker 1: Lori believed that she talked to Stacy all the time,
47:20
Speaker 1: and that she even thinks that Stacy... has a sense
47:23
Speaker 1: of humor similar to that of her own daughter. There's
47:26
Speaker 1: no doubt in my mind that Lori Vallow was oombats
47:29
Speaker 1: as hell, but not insane. There's a difference about being
47:33
Speaker 1: crazy and insane, right? I think she was crazy, but
47:37
Speaker 1: not insane. She knew exactly what she was doing while
47:40
Speaker 1: she was doing it. That makes you crazy. If you're insane, well,
47:43
Speaker 1: you have no idea what you're doing. And when someone's
47:46
Speaker 1: truly insane, they don't know the difference between right and wrong.
47:50
Speaker 1: Lori Vallow certainly knew the difference between right and wrong here.
47:54
Speaker 1: They hid the bodies. They were being evasive about where
47:57
Speaker 1: the children were. So I don't want to hear she's insane. Crazy?
48:01
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely umbots, but not insane. He stressed that
48:05
Speaker 1: the defendants' beliefs are pretty strange, implying that they are
48:09
Speaker 1: outside the norm of what most people believe or consider
48:13
Speaker 1: to be rational. Lori struggled with different husbands and was
48:17
Speaker 1: always marrying up, Mr. Glatz said. She was always looking
48:20
Speaker 1: for a better life and was very good at using
48:23
Speaker 1: people and then discarding them when she decided they couldn't
48:26
Speaker 1: help her anymore. Well, five husbands tell the story, right?
48:30
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to talk, you know, trash about her life,
48:32
Speaker 1: but obviously something's going on. Five different husbands? What the
48:36
Speaker 1: hell's going on inside of that house? Lori also had
48:41
Speaker 1: a very troubled childhood, with one of the most disturbing
48:44
Speaker 1: issues being her relationship with her brother, Alex Cox. Oh yeah,
48:48
Speaker 1: this is where they... veer into Lannister territory. In his book, Mr.
48:52
Speaker 1: Glatt made a revelation about Valo Daybell's teen years, shedding
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Speaker 1: light on the traumatic experiences Lori was forced to undergo.
49:02
Speaker 1: In an interview with one of Lori's best friends from
49:04
Speaker 1: high school, she revealed a disturbing incident that happened when
49:08
Speaker 1: the two girls were around 12 years old. According to
49:11
Speaker 1: the friend, during a sleepover, Lori confided in her that
49:14
Speaker 1: her brother, Alex, was trying to have sex with her
49:18
Speaker 1: and she didn't know what to do. The friend recalled
49:21
Speaker 1: that they hugged but didn't tell anyone as she didn't
49:24
Speaker 1: know how to approach the subject and the incident was
49:28
Speaker 1: never mentioned again. Mr. Glatt notes that the friend wishes
49:32
Speaker 1: she had told her mother, who was a teacher at
49:34
Speaker 1: the time, and wonders if reporting it could have changed
49:37
Speaker 1: the course of events. But what if the opposite happened?
49:41
Speaker 1: What if nobody had stopped the Daybell couple? Could there
49:45
Speaker 1: have been more alleged victims? Mr. Glatt replied, actually, there
49:50
Speaker 1: was an attempted assassination. Lori's niece, Melanie Polowski, was involved
49:55
Speaker 1: in the cult and she moved to Rexburg to be
49:57
Speaker 1: with them. Lori and Chad and her husband, Brandon Boudreau,
50:01
Speaker 1: was very skeptical about it. And just before the actual
50:05
Speaker 1: murders of the children, somebody took a shot at him
50:08
Speaker 1: in his Tesla And just missed him. Police believed it
50:12
Speaker 1: was Alex who was in fact trying to assassinate him too.
50:16
Speaker 1: So he was very lucky to have gotten away with it.
50:19
Speaker 1: And again with Alex Cox. This guy was smack dab
50:23
Speaker 1: in the middle of all of it folks. And I'm
50:26
Speaker 1: guessing that he was the one who ended up doing
50:30
Speaker 1: the physical murdering of these children. But I also have
50:33
Speaker 1: no doubt that he did it at the direction of
50:37
Speaker 1: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. So it's going to be
50:40
Speaker 1: interesting as the trial continues to evolve what we learn.
50:44
Speaker 1: And it's also going to be interesting when we hear
50:47
Speaker 1: from sources like Mr. Glad here who have been following
50:50
Speaker 1: this case since the very beginning. And as all of
50:53
Speaker 1: that information becomes available, we'll certainly be adding it to
50:56
Speaker 1: the catalog. All right, folks, that's going to do it
50:59
Speaker 1: for this one. All of the information that goes with
51:02
Speaker 1: the episode can be found in the description box.