Latest / Speaking of Meaning / Unlock the Power of Your Voice | With Martin Svaneborg

Transcript

Unlock the Power of Your Voice | With Martin Svaneborg · Speaking of Meaning

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Speaking of Meaning,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: the podcast that helps you become a stronger communicator,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: build deeper relationships,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: and create impact that matters.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Ibrahim.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I am a professional speaker, soccer referee, and leader.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love helping other people and I also love to learn new things.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is about better communication,
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: greater impact at work,
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: in your home and in the world out there.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dive in.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy the show.
• 0:42
  welcome back everybody to speaking of meaning i am ibrahim and
• 0:46
  today i'm joined by
• 0:47
  martin swanebory he is an author singer actor and
• 0:53
  communications expert martin
• 0:57
  welcome to the show thank you very much sir thank you for
• 1:00
  having me martin before
• 1:02
  you introduce yourself what is one thing you hope our listeners
• 1:06
  will get from this
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: conversation
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: well you told me that you wanted to talk about voice as the basis of our
• 1:16
  conversation and for me being trained as a singer and as an
• 1:22
  actor voice is not just
• 1:25
  how you speak it's not just whatever you're born with it's
• 1:29
  something that you train
• 1:30
  and something that you can make into what you need it to be so
• 1:34
  i hope that the
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: listeners will take away a little bit of input about
• 1:41
  what the voice can become and how the voice can become a tool
• 1:45
  that can serve them
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: and not just their voice that they have to work with.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you are an actor and a singer.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me how did you find your voice?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find it early on?
• 2:03
  And when did you realize it was not just a tool,
• 2:08
  but a part of who you are?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I started singing, not early, but in
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think around eighth or ninth grade of elementary school,
• 2:24
  I had a very good friend in school who was very good at playing
• 2:28
  the piano.
• 2:29
  We became good friends at some point and we would start to just
• 2:33
  hang out at his house.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: His house was on the way to my house.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we would just walk home from school together.
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  And we got into this routine of just ending up at his house and
• 2:45
  he would start
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: playing piano from the songboard and then I would start to sing.
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  And it just became kind of the identity of our friendship was
• 2:56
  this music that we shared.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then I got into high school.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: I also started doing some dancing and some acting and I figured out that
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you have talent at that age is difficult to say for yourself,
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: but I noticed that there was something there that when I went on stage,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: something seemed to make sense.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I felt that I could do something and I really liked it.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I liked also the attention that I was getting.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: mainly from the girls,
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: which when you're a teenager,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: obviously is a pretty big motivator for anything.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: If the girls like it, then off you go, we'll do that.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I spent three or four or five years chasing after that.
• 3:50
  But it wasn't until I really became a professional,
• 3:55
  after I was trained and stuff like that,
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: that I started to get a sense of the craft that lies behind the voice.
• 4:09
  Also doing a lot of singing training,
• 4:11
  having a singing teacher and stuff like that.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: It took a while,
• 4:15
  it took some years before I got a real understanding of that
• 4:20
  this is a craft and
• 4:21
  this is a tool that I have to work with and not just something
• 4:27
  I need to figure out
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: how to work with.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: You told me one time you've done some classical singing.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 4:43
  And how has that helped you how you understand communication
• 4:49
  and also communicate?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: In high school, first year of high school, a week into high school,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: One of my classmates,
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: a girl called Louisa,
• 5:03
  came up to me after we had had a couple of music classes in
• 5:07
  high school and she had
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: noticed that I could sing on some level.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I had already noticed that she could sing really well.
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  SPEAKER_00: Then she came up to me and asked, have you ever had singing lessons?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, no.
• 5:23
  And she said,
• 5:23
  well,
• 5:24
  my grandmother used to be a professional opera singer.
• 5:29
  She doesn't really take students anymore,
• 5:31
  but she lives very close to where you live.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: She actually didn't tell me that I figured out.
• 5:37
  Um,
• 5:38
  but she said,
• 5:39
  if,
• 5:39
  if I'll ask her and see if she can give you a couple of,
• 5:43
  of classes.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: If she can't take you as you know,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: ongoing,
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  then at least she can point you towards a good teacher because
• 5:51
  you should have some
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: training.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
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  I went to visit her grandmother who was at that time in her
• 5:58
  seventies and was
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: retired.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it turned out that I lived out in a little village,
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  SPEAKER_00: like 15 kilometers from the,
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  SPEAKER_00: from the high school.
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  It turned out her grandmother lived right down the road in the
• 6:10
  same little village
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  SPEAKER_00: that I lived in.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I, I didn't know.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I came in to,
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: to,
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: to study with this former,
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 6:20
  opera singer and she took me in and I was with her for three or
• 6:25
  four years.
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  I think I had her as my first teacher and that was all
• 6:29
  classical singing because
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: that was what she was,
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: what she was.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that,
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  I then went on to musical theater and other things that were
• 6:42
  much more commercial
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: because I ended up not being classical singer.
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  But I was in a preparatory program for the Royal Music
• 6:51
  Conservatory for a year that
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was accepted into as a classical singer.
• 6:55
  So I did actually train professionally for a couple of years in
• 6:59
  classical singing.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Ended up not going in that direction.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it did teach me something about the voice from the beginning,
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: about what the possibilities of the voice is.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: When we speak, we just speak with however our voice naturally sounds.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: But in classical singing,
• 7:25
  From the beginning,
• 7:26
  you are aiming for a sound that is different from your own
• 7:31
  normal sound.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be somewhat rooted,
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: but instead of saying...
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Then in classical singing,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: you go...
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're aiming for a different...
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a different genre.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly I was singing German...
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: classical music and going...
• 8:02
  And that kind of singing taught me something from the beginning
• 8:05
  about that your
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: voice doesn't have to sound the way it naturally sounds.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you need it to sound different for some expression purpose,
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: then your voice can do many things.
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  So I think that became the basis of later on when I went into
• 8:23
  public speaking.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of stuff about how versatile the voice actually is.
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  If you get some training and get some understanding to how the
• 8:35
  voice actually works
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: on a technical level.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is it all about using the diaphragm to breathe and speak?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I spoke a little bit about this at a masterclass last night,
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: that I gave in,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: in,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: in Copenhagen about voice.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's very much, I usually teach it fundamentally in the way that
• 9:03
  If you start by getting some awareness about how much breath
• 9:08
  travels through your
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: throat when you're creating sound,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: that awareness,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: that consciousness in itself is a really,
• 9:17
  really good place to start because most people have no
• 9:21
  self-awareness of what kind
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  SPEAKER_00: of sound actually comes out of their mouth on an auditory level.
• 9:30
  And breath is a good place to start because some people have
• 9:34
  very breathy voices.
• 9:36
  I always do the analogy to a certain former president called
• 9:42
  Bill Clinton,
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  SPEAKER_00: who at some point stood up in the White House and said,
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: and trying to make a case for himself.
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  SPEAKER_00: He had a very breathy voice,
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  and he was actually famous for that he would often lose his
• 10:00
  voice when he was doing
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: presidential campaigns.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because if you speak like that, then there's actually a lot of...
• 10:10
  There is a lot of pressure on your vocal cords if there's too
• 10:15
  much air passing through.
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  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, if the vocal cords get too tight and too restricted.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you speak like, like you've almost sound like you're being strangled.
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  SPEAKER_00: then that's not healthy for the voice either.
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  So both polar opposites of the voice can create both an
• 10:34
  unhealthy voice that will
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: wear your voice down,
• 10:37
  but it also eliminates room for actual versatility and variety
• 10:44
  of your vocal.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So somewhere in the middle from a very breathy voice
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: to a very close voice,
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  there's a sweet spot in the middle that is simply there's
• 10:56
  enough air to create the
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: sound that you want to come out,
• 11:00
  but you don't waste more air than is what's necessary to get
• 11:04
  the vocal cords to
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  SPEAKER_00: vibrate and just to create a clear tone.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's usually where I start if I'm teaching people about voice.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So is it basically controlling your breathing as well?
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  SPEAKER_00: It's not just your breathing, but your breath.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because breathing is breathing in and exhaling.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it's how you exhale while creating sound.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you can breathe in and go.
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  But if you breathe out while you want to talk and say,
• 11:40
  hello,
• 11:41
  my name is Martin Svendeborg.
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  SPEAKER_00: I have used to be a singer and an actor.
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  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm a little bit of a speaker.
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  And then while the breath travels out of your throat,
• 11:52
  it creates the sound.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: It makes the vocal cords vibrate and create the sound.
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  And if you can feel,
• 11:59
  if you have too much breath,
• 12:01
  you will run out of breath really quickly.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't talk for very long because you can't sustain the note.
• 12:07
  If you do it from a singing point of view and you want to make
• 12:11
  a note and say...
• 12:15
  If there's too much air,
• 12:18
  the note is going to be short because I run out of air too
• 12:21
  quickly.
• 12:22
  But if I hold back the breath and don't let more through the
• 12:27
  throat than what I need,
• 12:30
  then...
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: then suddenly I can sustain the note for a lot longer.
• 12:45
  But it also means that I suddenly have room for speaking louder
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  or I can speak
• 12:51
  softer or I can speak with a higher pitch or I can speak with a
• 12:54
  lower pitch.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And all those tools are suddenly accessible to me because I'm creating
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: fundamentally a note that has potential or a sound,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: a speaking sound that has potential.
• 13:08
  Whereas this sound,
• 13:12
  I can't take it down either because there's nothing there to
• 13:16
  work with.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this is very fascinating because I guess also for the listeners,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: listening to a high-pitched voice,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: a breathy voice with short breath,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: it's not comfortable for us as well.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 13:38
  And it does something to a listener's brain or to an audience
• 13:42
  brain where you don't
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: necessarily notice it,
• 13:45
  but you disconnect from the speaker or from the communicator
• 13:49
  because there's
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: something about that voice that instinctively you feel like,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: it's,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: you can feel that it doesn't sound.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're listening,
• 14:00
  you're listening to someone like Bill Clinton and he was trying
• 14:03
  to talk like that.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: You have this feeling when you're listening to it,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: you better...
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Something isn't...
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel good here.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, my throat hurts just from listening to you.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if that happens, then you stop really paying attention.
• 14:21
  You will not connect to that speaker because you're distracted
• 14:25
  just from feeling
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: sorry for,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to lose your voice in five minutes.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: I can feel it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of the second, same thing at the other end of the spectrum.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you're... I made a very interesting...
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: analogy yesterday at the masterclass that I was giving when I mentioned,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: when Anthony Hopkins played Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: That first scene when Jodie Foster walks down the hallway in the prison,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: past the bars,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: past the cells,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: and she knows Hannibal Lecter's down at the end.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to be there.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't go too close to the bars.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just, he's going to be there.
• 15:09
  She turns up and there's Hannibal Lecter's just standing there
• 15:12
  in the middle of the
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: cell with his prison jumpsuit,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: nice,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: slick hair,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: looking very distinguished and very gentlemanly.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then the first thing that he says is just, hello, Clarice.
• 15:25
  And that,
• 15:26
  the voice,
• 15:27
  the sound that comes out of his,
• 15:29
  his voice is not,
• 15:31
  hello Clarice.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also not, hello Clarice.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Clarice.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's perfectly closed.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Not too little, not too, completely neutral, right in the sweet spot.
• 15:46
  And for some strange reasons,
• 15:47
  it's so scary because there's no emotions in it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's completely neutral.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And Anthony Hopkins knew how to do that.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was actually musically very gifted.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's written like symphonies and stuff like that.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how many people know that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And he knew how to do that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: But the contrasts can have the same effect because then someone said,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: can't it sound scary as well if there's too much sound on it?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it can.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're looking at someone that looks like Hannibal Lecter,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: and then he talks like a child,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: that would be super creepy as well.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that could disconnect you from your listener as well.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: this naturally leads to a question.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the question is, what makes a voice powerful and dynamic?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh...
• 16:53
  I think I should...
• 16:55
  I don't think we ever really got to the introduction.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: We ended up just jumping straight into talking about some stuff.
• 17:03
  But just to explain what my perspective is,
• 17:06
  I should probably just clarify my background.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I said, I started singing classically with this woman.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then I got into prep for conservatory as a classical singer.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then I moved from there.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: I cut that because I...
• 17:23
  Felt that classical singing was a little bit too,
• 17:26
  I don't know,
• 17:27
  it was too stiff for me.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted a little bit more show.
• 17:31
  So I transitioned into musical theater and I studied at a
• 17:35
  musical theater school in
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sweden called Performing Arts School,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: where I studied both singing and dancing and acting.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that is my primary training is musical theater and not classical.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And my professional debut was in the leading role of the musical cabaret,
• 17:52
  which I actually have 25 year anniversary because it was in
• 17:56
  January of 2001.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I think it was actually yesterday.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I had my 25th year anniversary yesterday.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not quite a hundred percent sure.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I was in musical theater for about 15 years.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Then I gradually transitioned out of theater.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was a little bit tired of it.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I did some TV work for four or five years.
• 18:19
  And then I went into public speaking because I was interesting
• 18:22
  in taking my stage
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: background into the real world,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: meaning corporate business,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: stuff like that,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: where you also need to have some communication powers.
• 18:34
  So to get back to your question about how do you know what
• 18:40
  makes your voice
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: powerful,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that boils down to understanding
• 18:46
  what are you talking about what is the subject that you are
• 18:50
  communicating who are
• 18:52
  you communicating it to because a lot of time power is
• 18:57
  subjective to first of all
• 19:00
  who are you talking to what are they expecting and the subject
• 19:05
  matter what makes
• 19:07
  that subject matter um powerful or what makes that subject
• 19:13
  matter come alive
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: because,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: like I mentioned before with Silence of the Lambs,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: there's this opening monologue from an old play called War of the Worlds,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: written by H.G.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wells.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was turned into a movie with Tom Cruise at some point.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: But back in the eighties,
• 19:38
  it was done as a play and Richard Burton narrated the prologue
• 19:42
  of this pretty scary
• 19:44
  prologue that basically set up that earth is about to be
• 19:47
  invaded by aliens.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that Richard Burton had his voice was something like,
• 19:56
  no one would have believed in the last years of the 19th
• 19:59
  century that human affairs
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: were being watched from the timeless worlds of space.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Few men even considered the possibility of life on other planets.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And yet,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: across the gulf of space,
• 20:12
  minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with
• 20:16
  envy as eyes.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And slowly and surely, they drew their plans against us.
• 20:25
  And for that,
• 20:26
  the powerful voice was this very tight,
• 20:29
  very constricted,
• 20:30
  very held back.
• 20:32
  No one would have believed like it's,
• 20:34
  it's very,
• 20:35
  it's a hard kind of sound.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: it's a little bit,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: it's a little bit like Hannibal Lecter,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: but for someone who's going to warn the public,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: you're about to be invaded by Martians.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: That is what has the power.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: That is what will make them listen.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you're doing the opening prologue to Beauty and the Beast,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: you can't go,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: once upon a time in a faraway land,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: there lived a prince in a shine.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then all the kids are going to go,
• 21:13
  that will not hold the same power because it's not
• 21:16
  proportionate to the message.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand what I mean?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 21:22
  And then you have to switch and you have to be able to
• 21:25
  understand for this,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I need to go once upon a time in a faraway land,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: there lived a prince in a shining castle.
• 21:34
  That is the power of the voice for that message,
• 21:38
  for that demographic,
• 21:40
  for that audience.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what is the message?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Who is the audience?
• 21:44
  So,
• 21:46
  so I would say with power of the voice,
• 21:49
  it starts with understanding that
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: In what context?
• 21:55
  But let's say everyday life,
• 21:58
  at work,
• 21:59
  in a meeting,
• 22:00
  with colleagues,
• 22:02
  on a date.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is a confident voice, a dynamic voice?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: A confident voice is a voice that travels through space.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning, if you're in...
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: a meeting room at work.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can see I'm sitting here at work.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have a bit of space behind me.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say I'm standing here.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: The rest of my team is back there at the back wall.
• 22:34
  So if I want to reach them,
• 22:36
  it's not so much a matter of how do I want my voice to sound.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because trying to talk low and take on the Barry Manilow sexy voice,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: that might not necessarily do it.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Some might.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: For some it might.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: You never know.
• 23:01
  But what will always work is trying to focus not on how low or
• 23:08
  booming or how
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: efficient do I want it to,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: but simply,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: am I creating a sound that will reach them?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And again, if I go back to that guy,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: If I don't have a microphone, that sound doesn't travel through space.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: It gets to here and then it stops because there's no, there's no output.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's that kind of a voice is a sound engineer's worst nightmare.
• 23:41
  If you ask a sound engineer at a big speaking event or a big
• 23:45
  corporate event,
• 23:46
  say,
• 23:48
  what kind of
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: what's your favorite kind of voice?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: He says, I just want output.
• 23:55
  And output means that he gets something into his channel that
• 24:01
  is a clear signal
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: that he can turn a little bit up or he can turn a little bit down,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: but he doesn't need to do that much with it.
• 24:10
  Meaning he doesn't necessarily need to turn up the volume that
• 24:14
  much just so that
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: the audience can hear the speaker.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's a sound that travels through space on its own.
• 24:21
  And that's this kind of sound where it's not too high,
• 24:24
  but it's also not too much like this.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because both of them is like talking into a fridge, right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: You get into the fridge, but then it stays in there.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: It just dies in there.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes this cubicle kind of sound.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So in a corporate world at work,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: that kind of voice will always be interpreted as a confident voice.
• 24:50
  People will not notice,
• 24:52
  they will not be aware of why they find it confidence.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: They will not be aware that it's because it travels,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: because it has output,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: because it reaches them.
• 25:02
  I don't know how many times I've been in conversations with
• 25:06
  people one-on-one and
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: if they're within like a meter of me,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: like sitting face to face,
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: and then suddenly they say,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can feel your voice physically on my chest.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can feel the reverberations of your voice on me.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like physically, I can feel it going on my chest.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because voice is sound waves is a physical thing.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a physical energy.
• 25:34
  And if it actually comes out with a proper output,
• 25:38
  it's like waves in water.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, waves in water will continue.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: A ripple will continue to flow until it is stopped by something.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's it called?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Aqua waves?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's eternal energy.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: A wave doesn't stop until it's blocked by something.
• 25:58
  And sound waves function in the same way if they are created
• 26:02
  with a proper output
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: from the beginning.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that holds such...
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: a sense of power and confidence because physically it reaches people.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of that,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: the audience have to feel like they need to lean forward to listen,
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: then it's because the audience actually doesn't reach them.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or sorry, the audio, the sound doesn't reach them.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is very interesting because if you're constantly
• 26:36
  interrupted at work or in meetings or people don't listen when
• 26:41
  you're talking,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: it could be that,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: people might be rude,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: but sometimes it can also be because of your voice.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Most often.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Most often.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want a really,
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: really cool trick to speak in a way where you are saying to people,
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: don't interrupt me without saying the words,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: don't interrupt me,
• 27:05
  then speak with a voice where you feel like you're trying to
• 27:09
  actually hit them
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: physically with your voice.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can you show us?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Give us an example.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: The way I'm speaking now, as opposed to before.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I do not have sexual relationship with that woman.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm speaking to within my own Bible.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: But as soon as I say, I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 27:39
  then the then the sound that comes out of my mouth will will
• 27:44
  travel through air and
• 27:46
  it will physically hit them physically the reverberations the
• 27:51
  resonance of my voice
• 27:53
  will physically hit them and it's something that if you don't
• 27:57
  have the technique to
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: know exactly how to do that that's fair enough but the the image of
• 28:06
  Knowing that you're actually able to do that in itself can be
• 28:11
  quite powerful.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you just have that image of, I know that's possible to do.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: So let me talk as if that is what I'm going to do.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to talk so that it's going to physically hit you.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: My voice is going to hit your face.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what that will say is, don't interrupt me.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to say the words.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: My voice in itself will say...
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to keep talking and I need to finish this.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is it also being loud?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or just projection?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about projection here.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Volume has nothing to do with it.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's pure output.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's exactly what the sound engineer will say right away.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: If there's output, I don't have to turn the volume up.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: They will hear it.
• 29:01
  And that's why is the sound engineers worst nightmare because
• 29:07
  he knows he has to
• 29:08
  keep turning the volume up and it's going to keep sounding like
• 29:12
  crap because even
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: though he turns up the volume,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: the output is still not there.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the sound is still, still has no effect.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so what can I do now?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is it breathe in, hold it, and then speak and hit them with my voice?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Speak as if you are singing, as if there's a tonality to your voice.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm saying, let's go back to Beauty and the Beast.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: If I say that first couple of lines from Beauty and the Beast,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: as if I'm just talking,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 30:02
  I say,
• 30:03
  once upon a time in a faraway land,
• 30:05
  there lived a prince in a shining castle.
• 30:08
  Though he had everything his heart desired,
• 30:10
  the prince was spoiled,
• 30:12
  selfish,
• 30:13
  and unkind.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds really engaging, right?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't because I'm speaking as if I'm only speaking.
• 30:27
  But if I say,
• 30:28
  once upon a time in a faraway land,
• 30:31
  there lived a prince in a shining castle.
• 30:34
  Though he had everything his heart desired,
• 30:37
  he was spoiled,
• 30:39
  selfish,
• 30:40
  and unkind.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Can you hear the singing in it?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: That suddenly there's a tonality to it.
• 30:49
  I'm saying everything as if,
• 30:51
  first of all,
• 30:53
  I'm up prioritizing the vowels of each word.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't say once upon a time in a faraway land.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: with all the consonants,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: but you're going once upon a time in a far away land,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: you're hitting all the vowels instead because the vowels can make music.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: They can make tones.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Consonants are just sounds and mostly lips and breath.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if you,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: if you try to talk in a way where this could be,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: there could be a melody running through the whole sentence,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: then suddenly you get this sense of,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: then you can start to do all kinds of things with,
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: with your voice within one sentence.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: So thinking about tonality,
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: or you could also say melody,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: if that word resonates better with you,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: other than just speaking,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: because that tends to be like a monotonous level kind of venture.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's the worst of all.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like being dead.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: A monotonous voice.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking in melody,
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: having projection,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: and so forth,
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: we can do that if we are confident,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: if we're calm,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: if we are speaking about a subject we have knowledge in.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: But once we are nervous,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: afraid,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: scared,
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: stressed out,
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: at least,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: when it comes to me,
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that there's something in my chest,
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: something here that is pushing it down and it affects my voice.
• 32:45
  Is there a way that I can manage that and why does it happen in
• 32:50
  the beginning and
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: what can I do about it?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: That sensation,
• 33:03
  the fear or the anxiety comes from brain interpretation of a
• 33:13
  physical sensation.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever we are about to go into unknown territory,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: we are programmed through thousands and millions of years of evolution
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: to go into unknown territory with the utmost amount of caution,
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: because we must assume that behind the unknown corner,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: there is danger that could kill us.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are not that many dangers to our lives anymore,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: but a couple of thousand years ago,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: they were literally around every goddamn corner.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so
• 34:00
  speaking in public while people get so scared of it is because
• 34:07
  it feels unnatural.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: It feels unknown.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like something I haven't done before.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Some old part of our brain,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: the reptilian tiny little brain deep inside the head says,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: ah,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: we haven't done this before.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Then it's probably going to be dangerous.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's probably going to kill us.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: So let's be really, really afraid of that.
• 34:34
  That's just the brain making up worst case scenarios of what
• 34:39
  could happen when
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to do our presentation.
• 34:44
  But it's completely irrational,
• 34:46
  especially in 2026,
• 34:49
  because we're probably not going to die.
• 34:51
  They're probably not going to jump a tiger out from behind the
• 34:55
  manager's seat and attack us.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we're probably going to be fine,
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: but we're just programmed to always assume worst case scenarios.
• 35:04
  And that's what we do if we don't prepare a different scenario
• 35:09
  in our head beforehand.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there's two parts to managing that fear.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: One is that
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: That physical sensation,
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: when you start to get nervous and you feel everything is tightening up,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: your stomach starts to turn,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: you feel the butterflies,
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: you feel a lump in your throat,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: your hands start to go like that.
• 35:36
  That's just a physical sensation that is a physical response to
• 35:42
  the unknown.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: What people most often don't notice is that if we feel really,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: really nervous,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: which we experience as something negative,
• 35:58
  or if we are super excited about something is going to happen
• 36:02
  that we feel is
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: something positive.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: If a kid is like the day before Christmas or going to Tivoli tomorrow,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: he's super excited and the whole body is going .
• 36:12
  Those two states,
• 36:14
  mental states,
• 36:15
  the physical thing that happens in the body is the same thing.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: But we decide to interpret it as either nervousness or excitement.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: The nervousness we deem bad, that will kill us or close to.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Excited, that's good because that means we know we're going to have fun.
• 36:38
  But we only interpret it positive if we know what's going to
• 36:44
  happen,
• 36:44
  if we know what it is.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be Christmas tomorrow.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: We know it's good.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: We know it's presents.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then we allow ourselves to assume the positive outcome.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: If it's an unknown outcome, we automatically assume it to be negative.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: But that's our choice.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't know that we most oftentimes
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: actually make a choice of interpreting that feeling as bad.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: The point is that that physical sensation has to be there.
• 37:14
  Because if I go on stage and I don't feel like then it means I
• 37:19
  don't care.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not good on a stage if I don't care about what I'm doing there.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for me to be at my best, I need this to be
• 37:30
  to be going on because it basically,
• 37:32
  it means that I know my system is switched on.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, so that's the first thing is, is, is knowing that, um,
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: that that physical sensation actually should be there.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine at that.
• 37:49
  And then it's just a matter of learning how to manage and
• 37:53
  prepare yourself for that
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: and say,
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: when that comes,
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: that's fine.
• 37:58
  My job is to learn how to work with that physical sensation and
• 38:04
  use that to my
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: advantage instead of trying to eliminate it because I can't.
• 38:09
  And it will just scare me that much more when I get closer to
• 38:12
  the presentation and
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still going like that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I start to freak out because I can't make it go away.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing is.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Understand that that's fine.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: That has to be there.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: It can actually just make you better.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other is mental preparation.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Before you go in,
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: then like the day before,
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: or even a week before,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: start imagining the positive outcome of what you're going to do.
• 38:41
  So imagine yourself being in that boardroom,
• 38:44
  making the presentation and imagine yourself
• 38:48
  it going well and everyone cheering and everyone saying,
• 38:51
  oh,
• 38:52
  that was amazing.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: I really liked that bit.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you keep re-imagining the positive outcome,
• 38:57
  that will create like a mental highway in the brain so that
• 39:03
  when the body then
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: starts doing that,
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: then the brain doesn't freak out because it's prepared for,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: oh yeah,
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: but it's going to be fine because we've prepared fine.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're going to use this for the positive outcome.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:20
  So what I get from this or what I hear you say is number one,
• 39:24
  it's natural.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: We should be a little bit nervous.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: And number two, use visualization.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the point is the physical state should be there.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: The question is, what do you call it when you feel it coming?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you call it being nervous?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you call it being nervous,
• 39:46
  then you are choosing to interpret it in a negative way and
• 39:51
  your brain will then
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: pick up on that and say,
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: then we're going to die.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: So call it excited instead.
• 39:58
  And insist on calling it excited and insist on calling it
• 40:02
  something that I'm going
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: to use positively for my advantage.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's also very much about labeling,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: about what you choose to call it and what words you ascribe to it.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: So don't ascribe it something that you would consider being a bad thing.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: So basically use it to your advantage.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is very interesting.
• 40:30
  One thing that I noticed sometimes when I noticed that people
• 40:35
  are trying to be confident
• 40:40
  they tend to use body language,
• 40:44
  take up more space,
• 40:46
  look up their chest out there and so forth.
• 40:50
  But what I always see or hear is usually the voice revealing
• 40:58
  the emotions that
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: they're trying to fake or hide from other people.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any way we can control
• 41:09
  how,
• 41:10
  you know,
• 41:11
  is there any way I guess we can control how our voice are being
• 41:15
  perceived?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Can we control our voice even when we are nervous?
• 41:23
  If you are very experienced at working with your voice on a
• 41:30
  technical level,
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: then yes,
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: you can control it to some extent,
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: but it doesn't really come down to controlling your voice.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: It comes down to controlling the entire system.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I go on stage,
• 41:43
  it's not about that I'm able to separate my voice from the rest
• 41:48
  of my body being
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: like that.
• 41:50
  It's about being able to control the whole system and knowing
• 41:53
  how this works and
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: knowing how this works and knowing how that works.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then through experience,
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: just having done it so many times that I know what it is,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: so it doesn't bother me.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I work with it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: There was a... There was a...
• 42:15
  American comedian called Bill Hader,
• 42:17
  he was on Saturday Night Live for years.
• 42:20
  And he talked about that he would suffer so much with stage
• 42:24
  fright when he was on
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Saturday Night Live because it was a live show.
• 42:28
  So when they performed live on air,
• 42:29
  he was so afraid of fucking up and he would get so scared.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: He ended up actually quitting the show because of stage fright.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then he spoke to the very legendary American film star, Jeff Bridges.
• 42:45
  at some point,
• 42:46
  uh,
• 42:47
  at some,
• 42:47
  uh,
• 42:48
  and,
• 42:48
  and he asked him to Jeff Bridges and said,
• 42:52
  what do you do?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever get like this?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm really, I'm really struggling with.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Jeff Bridges said, yeah, don't worry about it, man.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, you gotta get the shakes.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: It gotta feel like that.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: You put her, you put your arm around that sucker.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's your buddy, man.
• 43:12
  Meaning that it's a friend of yours and you can almost see like
• 43:20
  a person that you
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: have to dance with.
• 43:22
  It's something that you have to learn to work with because it
• 43:28
  has to be there and
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: it should be there.
• 43:31
  If it's not there,
• 43:32
  then either you absolutely don't care or you're psychopathic.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Neither of those two are not good in the context of a presentation.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I don't know if that answered your question.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can learn to manage it, but it's...
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: I w I would suggest any day of the week,
• 44:02
  spend more time on trying to train to familiarize yourself with
• 44:09
  working with that
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: sense of,
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: of the shakes.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you notice, I don't call it the nerves.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I call it the shakes.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's my own word for it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, cause when I feel them coming, then I'm like, ah, there we are.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're ready.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's time to go on stage.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was getting in a little word, like, where were you, man?
• 44:33
  Um,
• 44:35
  so focus on working with it in a positive way instead of trying
• 44:41
  to feel,
• 44:42
  how do I manage it?
• 44:43
  Because that sounds like you need to sort of keep it under
• 44:46
  wraps or keep it
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: controlled in some way.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't control it.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just let it out and then work with it.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: So basically the mind is connected to the voice.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Very much.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Martin,
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: we've talked about the voice,
• 45:10
  how the mind is connected to the voice and different kind of
• 45:14
  sounds and projection
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: and so forth.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any exercises that I can do,
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: that the listeners can do to create a more deeper dynamic voice?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is that part of the answer?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:37
  If I have to go on stage and do something that's a little bit
• 45:41
  more than just
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: talking for five minutes,
• 45:43
  then I have a 30-minute vocal warm-up program that I have on my
• 45:47
  phone with all
• 45:50
  different kind of exercises where I actually warm up my voice
• 45:53
  so that it functions
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: at its best.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: whether I have to sing or whether I just have to speak.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: I warm up my voice to get it functionally optimal.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: And one exercise is if you take the word sing,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: S-I-N-G,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: and you say sing,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: then the last two letters NG
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: That part of the word sing, NG.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if you say sing and then extend the NG sound at the end,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: that is created by the tongue going up into the top of the mouth.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: It pulls the back of the tongue out of the throat,
• 46:42
  which creates room in the throat for the vocal cords to vibrate
• 46:47
  freely because
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: something that often happens with...
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm going to turn my head sideways a little bit.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: is that if people talk like this,
• 46:55
  then they're pushing the back of their tongue into the throat
• 46:59
  and it pushes down
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: onto the vocal cords.
• 47:02
  And then the vocal cords can't vibrate freely because there's a
• 47:06
  tongue sort of pushing down.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if you get...
• 47:11
  With the NG sound,
• 47:12
  the back of the tongue is pulled up into the top of the mouth
• 47:18
  cave.
• 47:19
  And that creates a very free and very healthy sound around the
• 47:22
  vocal cords.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I have an opening exercise where I basically just do that NG sound.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I do these glides where I go...
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just on that NG sound with the back of the tongue up.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I glide up and down.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: It gets the vocal cords going,
• 47:45
  but it also sort of creates some elasticity in the range of the
• 47:51
  voice so that you
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: get some pitch to work with so that you don't have just but .
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is that with the NG word?
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sing.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it, if.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: Sing.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: Sing.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you want the teeth to be open.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: You want the lips to be open because it's created purely.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sing.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's created purely with the tongue.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I basically just do that.
• 48:35
  And then at some point I do some contrast exercises with the
• 48:39
  breaths to get the
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: vocal cords to close properly so that I don't end up having that one.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't end up having that one.
• 48:49
  So when I've done the sing for a little while,
• 48:52
  then I add the breath and go...
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: and do it with a lot of air and then And then I'd go on to an A and say
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: with a lot of air, with no air.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I just flip back and forth between the contrasts,
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: because doing the contrasts make my brain actually notice that there's a
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: difference.
• 49:28
  The brain is really good at going on autopilot and not noticing
• 49:32
  what the hell the
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: body is doing.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this is part of the body, the voice.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's all muscle.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: From the jaw and down is body.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if we only just try to do the good sound and go,
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: and we keep doing the same thing,
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: the brain stops paying attention.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then we might actually not do the good sound,
• 49:56
  but the brain is not noticing it because we're not doing
• 49:59
  alternatives to it.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the more you can practice contrast,
• 50:04
  the more you become aware of where might your good sound be in
• 50:07
  the middle.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's basically my warm-up is first some NG.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: In the beginning,
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: I also always take it quite low and just go...
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if you wake up on a Sunday morning and the voice is just gone.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's just nothing there.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Then you have to start low and just go...
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you breathing out,
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Martin,
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: when you're doing this exercise?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: So breathe in and then I breathe out with the...
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Breathe in.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: And breathe out.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then I start to go with air.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Without air.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: With air.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now it's starting to find itself.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so these exercises, do they create a deeper voice?
• 51:13
  They will down the line because they will basically just make
• 51:18
  the vocal cords
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: connect healthily,
• 51:22
  but they will also find what is the natural sweet spot of your
• 51:27
  pitch in your,
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: like where,
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: do you naturally talk up here or do you naturally talk down here?
• 51:36
  Getting the vocal cords to just function at its best will also
• 51:41
  find where your
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: pitch is supposed to be,
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: where your pitch is completely relaxed and unrestricted.
• 51:49
  Usually if I speak,
• 51:51
  I know I have a pitch that is somewhere around where I'm
• 51:56
  speaking now.
• 51:57
  If I go a little bit up and try to speak up here,
• 52:00
  I can feel something in my throat.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's little details, but I can feel something is happening.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Something is contracting,
• 52:09
  something is doing an effort to take me up there because it's
• 52:12
  not my natural place
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: to be.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the same place,
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: if I go down here,
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can feel that I'm,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing something actively to get that speaking voice that low,
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: because it's,
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not naturally that low and I can feel something is happening.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm right in the sweet spot,
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can also physically feel my whole neck just going and just relaxing.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just vocal cords that is doing the work and nothing else.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is very fascinating.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: The voice is part of the body.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it is.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: The voice is a muscle.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: The voice is a muscle.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it can be trained just like any other muscle in the body.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:05
  Martin,
• 53:07
  if we move on now and talk about your,
• 53:11
  because you're a wonderful public speaker.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 53:14
  you gave a tedx presentation titled public speaking is a hoax
• 53:23
  the avatar of great
• 53:25
  speakers what was the core message behind that speech it's a
• 53:34
  catchy title isn't it
• 53:35
  especially in this day and age where certain people have liked
• 53:40
  to throw the hoax
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: word around anything
• 53:45
  The core message of that TEDx talk was the primary thing that I
• 53:51
  have taken out of
• 53:53
  25 years in the entertainment industry and being on theater
• 53:56
  stages is that,
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: and also into real life,
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: into corporate,
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's at work,
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's job interviews,
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: if you're on a stage
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning, it doesn't have to be a theater stage.
• 54:11
  I use the stage as a metaphor for every time you get in front
• 54:14
  of more than two
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: people with something that you have prepared for more than two minutes.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Could be a boardroom.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Could be you're a university professor teaching in the auditorium.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're on a stage in front of a crowd.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: You've prepared what you're going to do.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as you're doing that, you are performing.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when you are performing, you're not supposed to be yourself.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how many times I've heard people say to me that,
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 54:50
  my friend just told me to be myself when I'm going to go for
• 54:53
  that job interview or
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: when I'm going to do the presentation at work.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Just be yourself.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that's bullshit.
• 55:04
  Because as soon as you are performing and as soon as you're
• 55:08
  doing something that is
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: prepared,
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: whether you are yourself does not matter.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's completely irrelevant.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: And whether you're authentic,
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: which is another proper buzzword in the last couple of years,
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: authenticity is like the new black.
• 55:27
  Whether you're authentic doesn't matter because the audience
• 55:32
  don't know who you are.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't care about whether you're authentic.
• 55:37
  They care about whether they perceive you as authentic and
• 55:42
  whether they perceive
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: you as someone they can relate to and someone they can resonate you,
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: someone they can connect with.
• 55:49
  So when you're on stage,
• 55:50
  all that matters is can you make the audience believe you
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: And who you then really are doesn't matter.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the core message of that TED talk was when you go on stage,
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: don't be yourself because it won't help you.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't try to be authentic because it won't help you.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: What will help you is to create an avatar that is based on who you are.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Just like that movie with the blue avatars.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I like that as a reference for this,
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: because those blue avatars,
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: they were all avatar versions of real people,
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: but the avatar versions were bigger.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: They were stronger than the real people.
• 56:41
  They were very much like movie stage entertainment versions of
• 56:46
  the real people.
• 56:48
  They were the ones that you would want to see on stage because
• 56:50
  they were quite entertaining.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you would want to listen to them.
• 56:55
  The real people that were in those containers while the blue
• 57:00
  selves were running
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: around,
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: you weren't that interested.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: And me as a private person, I'm highly introverted.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love, you see, I have my coffee cup.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't go anywhere without it.
• 57:12
  I preferably just want to sit at home,
• 57:14
  write my books,
• 57:15
  be in my chair and read some
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: some novels and write my coffee.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like socializing.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like being around people or around crowds.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned to do so from a stage.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned to be professionally extrovert.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if I was myself on a stage,
• 57:35
  the audience would be bored and ask for the money back because
• 57:38
  you don't want who I
• 57:39
  really am on this stage because that person is not interesting
• 57:44
  on a stage.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: He is thoroughly
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: waste of your time.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: But this guy,
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: the public speaking avatar version of Martin Svennebel,
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: he's really good on a stage.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: He's entertaining.
• 58:00
  He knows how to talk in a way that that can capture the
• 58:04
  audience because he's been
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: trained to do exactly that.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that avatar version of the real guy has been trained
• 58:14
  skillfully and specifically for that purpose of being on a
• 58:18
  stage and being
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: perceived as authentic in that format in front of a crowd.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is very interesting.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: We could have an entire podcast episode about this.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's a concept that I've actually been developing over five or six years,
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: the Avatar concept,
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: because no one talks about it,
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: especially in public speaking.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: No one will even acknowledge it.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: People think that it's what actors are doing.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: They pretend to be someone else.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I get it.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big concept.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've only, Germany, the TEDx talk was the first time I mentioned it.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are you talking about being somebody completely a different person?
• 59:14
  Are we talking about taking a part of yourself that is
• 59:20
  interesting and expanding on
• 59:22
  that and leaving out the part of you that is not interesting to
• 59:28
  the audience?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very good question and very essential.
• 59:35
  Crucial actually,
• 59:36
  because to me personally,
• 59:40
  I have 25 years of acting background.
• 59:43
  So for me to get into the mindset of having an alter ego almost
• 59:49
  is very natural to
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: me because I've played other people than myself all my life.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that notion to me is not strange.
• 59:59
  And to me,
• 1:00:00
  when I go on stage,
• 1:00:02
  yes,
• 1:00:02
  I almost feel like a completely different person.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: I compare myself to Jekyll and Hyde.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I go on stage, it's a complete personality switch.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that other person is rooted in me.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's based on who I really am.
• 1:00:22
  And there's nothing in that person that doesn't live somewhere
• 1:00:27
  in the real me.
• 1:00:30
  Because if I created a completely different persona that really
• 1:00:34
  had nothing to do
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: with me,
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: then that persona would not be credible.
• 1:00:40
  Because people are clever enough that if they're sitting and
• 1:00:43
  they're watching
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: someone on stage and it just feels like he's just acting,
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: that's not him.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've met him.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen him in an interview.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's not who he is at all.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: People will see through that.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then again,
• 1:01:01
  you have the same disconnect as you have with the weird voices
• 1:01:04
  that we talked about
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: earlier.
• 1:01:07
  If you're trying to develop an avatar,
• 1:01:10
  an avatar doesn't have to be that different from you.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's more a matter of,
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: first of all,
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: my point was,
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: it can help you tremendously with stage fright.
• 1:01:21
  Because a lot of what frightens people when they go on stage is
• 1:01:25
  that they feel
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: exactly that thing that...
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's me.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone says, just be yourself.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if I take me,
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: my private me on stage and it doesn't work,
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: then it's also the private me that is going to get criticized.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's me who's failing.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's me who's being rejected.
• 1:01:44
  But if I could go up there with a different mindset and I say,
• 1:01:48
  I don't have to be myself.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: then it can take some pressure off of myself.
• 1:01:53
  It can be oddly liberating because then I can allow myself to
• 1:01:56
  go up there and say,
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 1:01:58
  I'm just going to be that other version of myself that is
• 1:02:02
  better at that job than I
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: really am as a private person.
• 1:02:07
  And how different that personality have to be,
• 1:02:10
  that avatar have to be from who I really am.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, that can differ.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: There are few people like...
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: These highly extroverted,
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: rare people that are naturally talkative,
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: naturally flamboyant,
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: naturally dramatic,
• 1:02:27
  and are the exact same way on a stage or as they are in a
• 1:02:31
  one-on-one conversation.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they don't have to create an avatar.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they have to,
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: on the opposite end of the scale,
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: maybe tone their private way down a little bit so that,
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: because I find those people super tiring.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can't talk to those kinds of people for more than two minutes.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: Then I go, dude, you need to calm down.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're stressing me out.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: But so an avatar is just a way to
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: Allow yourself a mindset.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: Also,
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: if you're training this from a low level,
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: if you've never really been on stage,
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: you've never really done public speaking and you're just starting out,
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: then it's also a matter of just a baseline mindset.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: When you go up the first time,
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: are you going up there saying,
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just having,
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be myself.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if you go up there and you say,
• 1:03:30
  I'm going to go up there and I'm not going to be myself and
• 1:03:33
  then see what happens.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: then often something will emerge.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: You will discover something.
• 1:03:39
  And then like you say,
• 1:03:40
  then you can start to play around with,
• 1:03:42
  are there sides of myself?
• 1:03:43
  Like for instance,
• 1:03:44
  with me,
• 1:03:45
  I've been called arrogant since I was in high school.
• 1:03:47
  And for years,
• 1:03:48
  I thought that as a negative thing that I should try to
• 1:03:51
  eliminate.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then I argued that, no, I'm not arrogant.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm confident and it's a different thing.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: Until recently,
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: a couple of years ago,
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: I realized I can actually use arrogant positively as a speaker.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: Privately, it's not that charming.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: But on stage, it can be quite entertaining.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it can even be quite funny.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: So as a speaker, I can actually use arrogance.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: So my public speaking avatar, he's very arrogant.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: And deliberately arrogant.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I play with it.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I do jokes about it.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I enhance it.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've played with it.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: that actually had some potential.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: It has some potential.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's because there is some truth in that as well?
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:04:48
  Because if we take all these basic things,
• 1:04:54
  what can you do with your voice?
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: What can you do with an avatar?
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: In my opinion,
• 1:05:00
  The most powerful thing above all on a stage as speaker is
• 1:05:06
  daring to be honest about yourself.
• 1:05:10
  If you can be honest with your audience and say,
• 1:05:14
  I know I'm arrogant,
• 1:05:16
  what are we going to do?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're willing to ridicule yourself and take yourself down,
• 1:05:25
  then there's nothing that is more connecting and creates more
• 1:05:28
  empathy than if an
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: audience say,
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: if he's willing to call out his own bullshit,
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: then fair play,
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: that guy I will listen to.
• 1:05:42
  Because if he was trying to convince me that all of that
• 1:05:45
  bullshit was fine,
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: but he's admitting that
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not all that charming and not in all contexts.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: But there's something about a humility about your bad sides.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you're using your bad sides or your weakness.
• 1:06:06
  I had this very catchy phrase in my TEDx talk where I said,
• 1:06:10
  turn your flaws into fortitude.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which is what I'm doing with, with arrogance.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: That we have a lot of parts of our personality that we consider as flaws.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then we try to hide them because we think that,
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: then the world doesn't want to see them and they're no,
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: they're no good for me.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: In certain situations, they might be.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: In certain contexts,
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: those flaws could be turned into fortitude and a stage is on,
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: is one of them because on a,
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: on a stage,
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: anything goes.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: There is nothing that you cannot be on a stage.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of, can you make them buy it?
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: And still be honest.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: And still be honest.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: Can you be honest about it?
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: And can you make them buy into that?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: That this is what you're projecting.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you can make them go along with it, then nothing is forbidden.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that authenticity, though, being honest?
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say it's perceived authenticity because...
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: I might know that when I go on stage, I'm not the real me.
• 1:07:25
  So I don't feel I'm authentic because I'm not showing them who
• 1:07:29
  I really am,
• 1:07:31
  but I know that I'm showing them someone that I want them to
• 1:07:36
  perceive as the real
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: me.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: So to them, I want them to perceive me as authentic.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_00: But to me,
• 1:07:44
  I don't feel like I'm authentic because I know that what I'm
• 1:07:49
  doing up there is a
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: little bit of an act.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: And acting is not bad.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not wrong and it's not cheating.
• 1:07:57
  or being fake,
• 1:07:59
  it's accepting that when you're on stage,
• 1:08:02
  it's a different game.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: And stage is not,
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: I said that in my TEDx talk as well,
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: the stage is not a real representation of life.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's a rehearsed,
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: closed,
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: magical world where anything goes,
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: as long as you can make the audience believe in whatever you're doing.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if they perceive it as authenticity, it's authenticity to them.
• 1:08:26
  But it doesn't mean that it is to me because I might know what
• 1:08:31
  I'm doing behind the scenes.
• 1:08:33
  I might know what strings I'm pulling that I feel a little bit
• 1:08:36
  like a puppet master
• 1:08:38
  and I'm sometimes pulling the audience around and I know how
• 1:08:42
  I'm pulling them
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: around and they don't.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just to make sure I understand this one, Martin, you're basically
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're not talking about intentions here, having bad intentions.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking about creating an avatar that is going to be interesting,
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: that brings out the best in you on the stage,
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: and in that way you can reach your goal,
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: help the audience reach their goals as well.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's about acknowledging that in nine times out of ten,
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: your own private self is not enough on a stage.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: That private person is not interesting enough on a stage.
• 1:09:28
  And to become someone who can really own the stage,
• 1:09:31
  you need to allow yourself to go beyond
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: who you really are and allow yourself to create something,
• 1:09:40
  a version of yourself that is better at being on a stage in
• 1:09:44
  front of an audience
• 1:09:45
  and is better at being perceived as authentic as your own
• 1:09:48
  private self really is.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_00: Who can become bigger and yeah,
• 1:09:54
  who can entertain and who can be funny and who can be
• 1:09:57
  empathetic and mesmerizing.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: All right, great.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Martin, I have one last question for you.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that question,
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_01: if you could only give one advice,
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_01: only one piece of advice,
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_01: the books you've written,
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: the books you've read,
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_01: all your talks,
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: your knowledge,
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_01: you could only give one advice for a better,
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_01: more meaningful life,
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: what would it be?
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Take time to enjoy your coffee.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So basically live in the moment.
• 1:10:47
  Don't get caught up in all the big things that you think will
• 1:10:52
  make your life vastly better.
• 1:10:55
  Because a lot of times it's the small things that you really
• 1:10:59
  cherish that you're
• 1:11:01
  often willing to give up in the pursuit of the bigger projects
• 1:11:04
  that will aim for
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: the bigger stars.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, it's the small moments.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's me sitting in my chair with my coffee.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 1:11:15
  that always anchors me back to my sense of happiness and my
• 1:11:20
  sense of fulfillment,
• 1:11:21
  regardless of what I otherwise get to do of bigger things that
• 1:11:25
  might seem really
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: incredible and fulfilling,
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: and meaningful.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: but without that anchor in the small things of the everyday life,
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_00: then I get lost in the big stuff.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 1:11:43
  So basically be thankful,
• 1:11:45
  enjoy,
• 1:11:45
  be grateful to the small things in life that you have.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the coffee, smell the flowers.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Martin, thank you so much for joining Speaking of Meaning.
• 1:11:57
  And what I take away from this conversation is that your voice
• 1:12:02
  is part of the body
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: and it can actually be trained.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: This has been valuable.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Martin.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're very welcome.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me on.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to Speaking of Meaning.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_01: If today's episode helped you see communication in a new way,
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: share it with someone you care about,
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_01: a friend,
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: a partner,
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: or a colleague who wants to grow.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Ibrahim.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, better communication, greater impact.