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Activating Sustainability | Ep 68: Health is Wealth · Activating Sustainability

• 0:07
  Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Activating Sustainability, the Anthesis podcast, where we take deep dives into the sustainability issues that matter to help businesses turn ambition into action. I'm your host, Chris Peterson. Today we're exploring the emerging trends and links between agriculture and nutrition and what approaches we can leverage to connect and address them both. I'm pleased to be joined today by Ali Morpa, co founder of Planetary alliance, who along with her team are building a better food system for business people and the planet. Along with Ali, we're joined by Simon Davis, who leads sustainable agriculture at Anthesis. Both Ali and Simon bring backgrounds in nutrition and deep passions about sustainability. As you'll hear in this episode, we will first look at how consumer trends are shifting and the drivers behind them, then dig deeper on the key disruptors and their implications, including AI and GLP1s. And finally, we'll explore the opportunities for food companies to differentiate and drive value creation. We're glad you're here. Now let's dive in. Ali and Simon, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:14
  Speaker B: Hi, Nat.
• 1:15
  Speaker C: Thank you for having us.
• 1:18
  Speaker A: Wonderful. Well, maybe before we dive into it, Ali, it'd be great to have you speak just a little bit about Planetary alliance for anybody who's not familiar with the organization.
• 1:26
  Speaker C: We are a consultancy organization. We are very small compared to lots of other businesses. We're working with about 22 clients across the world. And our USP is that we really join the dots across the food system. So we have deep technical expertise in nutrition and we have deep technical expertise in sustainability. And most projects that we work on are really structured around how we move the food system to benefit both people and planet. So we tend not to work on supply chains. Most of our work is focused on consumption and diets because, as you guys will rightly know, by working on diets, we get these like, double benefits, right, of improving human health and also improving the food system through demand changes and supply chain. So we do a ton of work with retailers, brands, FMCG, NGOs and policymakers. Anybody with an interest in how we improve diets for both planet and people.
• 2:21
  Speaker A: Fantastic. Well, thanks so much. And maybe Simon, building off of that, I know you have a recent post called Health as well that is addressing the same kind of goals and ambitions. I'm wondering if you could just speak to a couple of themes that really came out of that for you and then Ali would love to hear kind of your reflections from your work.
• 2:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, I wrote this blog a couple of months ago and I don't think the link between agriculture, nutrition is Necessarily new news, but I think what we're seeing now is a critical moment or a critical mass building where we're seeing greater convergence across industry and the links between agriculture and health. And we're seeing more brands looking to valorise this relationship through their supply chains, products and storytelling too. So it's a very exciting time to be in the sector. And there are some quite heavy interconnected links, I think. And those links are risk, but also opportunities. So the first theme I think is that our global food system is creating dual risks. Right? On the production side, we need to continue to feed a growing population. That food needs to be healthy, safe and high quality. But it has an impact on our natural capital, our soil, our water, our biodiverse. Then on the consumption side, our diets are changing, we've got a growing dependence on ultra processed food and our behaviors and choices are increasing. The rise of obesity, but also other dietary related diseases and micronutrient deficiencies. And these two issues are even more so interconnected because the majority of our food supply comes from a handful of plants and animals and the majority of our calories come from three crops. Despite there being a whole abundance of diversity on what we can eat. The lack of diversity in our diets, the lack of diversity on farms are virtuous circle. I think then the second theme is about how these link to the economics. So poor nutrition and environmental degradation having significant impact on our economies. We're seeing more and more stranded assets through supply chain and security productivity losses from a natural capital perspective. But from a public health perspective, we're also seeing an increase in disease and that greater burden on our public health services. And then finally, I think the final theme is a bit more positive. There's a whole bunch of game changers that are emerging. That real capacity to accelerate the opportunity, consumer awareness is increasing, but also through weight loss, drugs and their impact on consumer demand for different types of products, emerging policy and movements like Make America Health Again. But it wouldn't be a podcast, it would be a sustainability discussion without mentioning AI too. So the power of AI and the ability to use AI for the common good to accelerate how we become more efficient on our farms, but also then how that plays out in nudging the right consumer behaviors.
• 5:30
  Speaker A: Amazing. And Ali, I'd be curious to hear from your work, what are you seeing that have aligns with that or differentiates from some of those big themes in this space?
• 5:39
  Speaker C: Yeah, thank you so much. So all of it, all of the above I would say. Really nice to hear that Simon and I are aligned on the risks and opportunities. Like, one thing I would start by saying, actually, Simon, a reflection to your words is that I agree with you. I think I've been knocking around the food system for 20 years and I think this is the most exciting time that I have seen in my career. And I don't know how much of that is down to the fact that we are suddenly reaching this point where there are so many different solutions to food systems problems that it feels like there's a lot to go at. And also how much of that is down to the point in time that we've reached in kind of climate where all of a sudden we've done a lot of the easy work, a lot of the easy transitions in sustainability have been fulfilled. Right? So we've got to tackle the gnarly issue that is the food system. There's no two ways about it. And I think sometimes that can feel like we're grappling with this almighty challenge. And one thing we often talk about at Planetary alliance is that in transportation, it's really easy, right? You move from like diesel to electric and it's job done, you know. But in the food system, that pathway is not going to be linear. And we fundamentally believe that reorientating the food system is going to be down to thousands, millions trillions of small solutions that all ladder up to make change. And I actually think that means that it's really exciting. I loved Simon's ideas about kind of like the opportunity for AI and other tech solutions. And also the fact that we've got this really brilliant time in agriculture where we've got data platforms and decision making that can help us make informed decisions which don't just benefit farming systems, but potentially also benefit human health. I don't think we've really been at that point consistently before, but my one caveat to that would be to say that there were still a lot of questions. And I think we have to be really careful, and I would include myself in this, in sustainability, in that sometimes what we're looking for is really straightforward, simple solutions. And oftentimes in the food system solutions are not simple and straightforward. So we have to be really careful about not conflating the great promising ideas out there with absolute solutions that we think we can suddenly piggyback on and get to scale very quickly. Game changers, though, because I really like what you said there, Simon. So a couple of builds from me. I think that we've got a great awareness now about some of the issues you flagged around obesity Hidden hunger, micronutrient deficiencies, population health, being super reliant on our food system, some of the game changers I think that we have in front of us, which maybe don't get as much airtime as they should do with things like biofortification. So where we're literally changing the way that crops are fortified with micronutrients and pre human diets and also fortification of staple products which is so cheap and it's such a great way to improve human nutrition through really, really easy scientific solutions.
• 8:47
  Speaker A: Amazing. And you both spoke to this idea of seeing this new convergence on these topics, the energy within the space. And I'm curious, as you look ahead over the next piece, what needs to be true for us to continue to see progress and turn that kind of ambition into action?
• 9:05
  Speaker B: I think, as you say, Ali, some of the solutions, we can't oversimplify, but I read the statistic that a healthy basket of food like the first thousand calories is double the cost of cheap processed food in terms of calories. And you talk about the great potential of innovation on farm and it being relatively accessible. We need to make that accessible at scale and we need to make it affordable to invest in innovation from a cash flow perspective. But then we also need to make healthy food more affordable and more competitive against unhealthy food. Because what I love about this dialogue is how intricately connected production consumption are. You can do so much good stuff at production side to produce really nutrient dense, high quality food at scale. But actually there's also this behavioral change element and nudging the right behaviors that is such a critical part of actually helping consumers become more sustainable in their dietary choices. And yeah, price is a key element of that.
• 10:21
  Speaker C: Yeah, I like wholeheartedly agree with all of that. And I guess one of the framing pieces that sometimes we wrap around that in our work is talking about what needs to be true to your question is like we have to work on the food environment as a way to deliver this to customers. As Simon quite rightly says, you can have like the best innovation in the world. Right. But if we're not making that super visible to people, if we're not making sure it's reaching people at a price they can afford and that it's available where they are, then we're going to struggle to get that to scale. So we talk about changing the food environment to make things easier for consumers. And I'm particularly thinking about diets there rather than supply chain. And then I guess just a couple more builds from me in Terms of what else needs to be true. We have some really great emerging evidence on the difference that food production methods can make to quality of ingredients. But we need to really focus on what the product looks like, having product level analysis and data. Because one example we might use here is like wheat. So there's a lot of excitement around the different composition of wheat depending on which system it's grown in. But most wheat might be ground down into flour. Right. And through that processing mechanism that is going to change the way that that crop transfers into the diet and then that ingredient is used in products as well. So I think for us at Planetary alliance, while we're super excited about the potential to join supply with human health, there's lots of questions about actually how do we get that from ingredient level to dietary level. And just a caveat, again, as kind of a science led organization, we would say that we must really be doing our due diligence around translating that.
• 12:09
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think there's some learnings here from other complex topics in sustainability. So what does good governance look like around this topic? How do we harmonize, not standardize targets and metrics, because agriculture dynamic, genetics dynamic. And how do we then measure and compare progress across lots of different supply chains and products? And then how do we communicate, as you say, Ali, you know, how do we credibly communicate the impact that the whole value chain is making? And how do we credibly communicate and again, nudge the right behaviors so that consumers can make more informed choices about the trade offs they're making when they purchase products as part of a, you know, a basket or a shopping trolley.
• 12:58
  Speaker A: Maybe to dig into that a little bit further is I love that concept of moving from the ingredient to the dietary level.
• 13:05
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 13:06
  Speaker A: And it feels like such a critical role for businesses and organizations to play as that kind of conduit between those. And I'm curious, as you've engaged with leaders in the fields, what is the business case for taking action on this within organizations?
• 13:24
  Speaker C: We were doing a bit of work around this actually recently because I think for a long time there's been a kind of like a rippling narrative. Should we say that people don't necessarily care about their own health, but we know from all consumer insights research that's simply not the case. Like people care deeply about their health. And there's some great data out from Kantar which has showed that this year health is absolutely a commercial driver and that despite the ongoing economic uncertainty, consumers are making more food choices for health than they have at any point in the past five years. And that's really interesting because normally what happens in an economic downturn is that health kind of falls off the agenda, and that's not being reflected in the data at the moment. So I think that this is a really amazing point in time to be thinking about how we truly engage people in health. And when I say people in health, I'm not just talking about consumers. I'm talking about business leaders and policymakers as well. So the value to businesses is the more that they know consumers want this, the more they're likely to respond, and the more confidence that we can get from policymakers who might be putting into place health policies to mandate businesses doing certain things like reporting percentage of healthy sales or whatever. That also means that businesses have got a level playing field to respond to. And I think what we're starting to see in the data, both in terms of policy change coming in, data on what consumers want, and then to Simon's point on glps, there is a real tipping point in health right now, and we really need to ride the back of it with those millions of solutions that we talked about in the start of the podcast. I think it is worth as well just communicating this point on GLP1s, because particularly for nutritionists, sometimes this can feel like it's this media narrative that's kind of running away on GLPs. And maybe there isn't enough consideration being given to diets as part of that. But actually, again, in terms of data, double the number of people are taking GLPs in the last 12 months. 4% of households now include a GLP user. And the really interesting point there is that that was laddering up directly to a lot less calories. So the way in which people are purchasing foods is changing. The types of food that people are purchasing is changing. So lower processed food, lower fizzy drinks, lower refined grains, like, all these things which we would normally classify in terms of a less healthy diet are seeing less traction as a result of this. So it's all kind of playing into the picture that we have an opportunity to offer something very different and that we can use that to engage both businesses and policymakers in making the kind of direction of change in the food system easier.
• 16:12
  Speaker B: Absolutely. I love how quickly demand is shifting. And it's always the way that it's things that have blindsided. You know, you always think demand would shift through policy and advocacy. And actually it's something like a weight loss drug that is actually completely, radically shifting demand. And it's not solving everything by Any means from a nutrition standpoint. But to your point Ali, the business case is kind of already being made. There's a great opportunity for growth, diversification of product portfolio to ride that wave. But also I think competitive advantage is another area that more businesses are seeing that if they can better link the positive impact they're placing on their agriculture value chains and create more nutritious products too, then there is some unique stories and points of differentiations they can talk to that resonate with investors, policymakers, consumers, society as a whole on the positive impact they're making across planetary and public health in a way that their competitors aren't. So yeah, it's a very, very interesting time. But actually I think the business case is kind of being written rather than having to be built and we're seeing that with more companies taking or making more investments in the types of products that they're developing and selling and some of the M and A activity.
• 17:44
  Speaker A: Well, and maybe that's a good segue to thinking about when you look out in the market. What are those leading examples of organizations that have kind of adopted this or practices that you see as really wanting to see scaled as you look and think ahead?
• 18:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, there's lots of different types of examples. You know again to Ali's point, of the millions of little things that can make a big difference in this and I don't think there's one gold standard end to end approach that stands out. I think there's lots of different types of things that are all creating value in new ways. I mentioned new product development, M and A, the likes of M and S and actually other retailers creating closer partnerships with nutritionists, dietitians, developing new products that are cleaner deck and targeted at those types of consumers that are actively taking weight management drugs or looking to be more aware of their calorie controlled diet and wanting to get all the still important micronutrients as part of that. We're also noticing a little bit in FMCG some interesting tie ups like M and A activity. So they're not a Nestle both competing. Danone did a, an M and A transaction with Huel. You know the protein shake. Yeah, exactly. Thank you Ali And Nestle did something very similar and there's more. It's again about portfolio diversification. Right. And like helping develop a wider range of solutions to ride the wave of health and wellness trends but then in a way that targeting slightly different audiences. And then I've got one other example which is a bit more of a governance example. I just really like It I don't know if you've noticed Ali Access to Nutrition initiative. So they're an NGO and they've got a really nice framework to benchmark different types of organizations ambition around nutrition. And I love it because it's not just supply chain oriented, it looks at affordability, it looks at labeling and looks at responsible marketing too. And that's how we should be treating this, you know, not just about creating a health. Healthier mix of ingredients and dietary choices is actually how we then market those in a responsible way to ensure that we're helping people make healthy choices.
• 20:13
  Speaker C: Yeah, I love all those examples and I've got like a couple more to share, I guess. Just riffing off what you were saying, Simon, your point on kind of like portfolio solutions, I just love, because I think that's exactly it in food. Like we eat diets, right? So all of us are eating, hopefully lots of diverse ingredients, but we need to eat more diverse ingredients. And one of the great examples that I've seen recently is the Banging Some Beans campaign because it deals with both sustainability and human health. So this is a nationwide campaign which was spun out of a bunch of NGOs working together, but they have recruited a ton of social media influencers. They've gone really hard on consumer comms campaigns because we know that's where people get their nutrition information from. They've worked in partnership with fmcg, with brands, with retailers to really highlight the positive, incredible roles of beans in diets. And that's great because it means people are engaged with a new diverse crop that's really good for their health. It's full of fibre and micronutrients, etc. It's also really going to help us in terms of our planetary goals because we need to eat less, a small amount or a bit less meat and dairy, which is a difficult thing to talk about. People tend to shy away with it. But if we are going to encourage people to change their diet, then we need to be giving them exciting alternatives. And I think that's a really good example of how we're making a sustainable protein super exciting for people and it will have impacts on the supply chain as well. So I think that's really exciting. A couple of other examples are I think some of the retailers right now are doing some great work. So Lidl has just done a big piece of work engaging its customers in Planetary Health Overshoot Day. So demonstrating to customers that at a certain point in the year, we are overshooting planetary boundaries through food. And I think that's such a great leadership role to really be engaging your customers in planetary health. And they're the only UK retailer to have, for example, a protein split target because they know that that's essential to meeting their net zero goals. I do have to underline that by saying we do work with Lidl, so I should disclose that. But I still, despite the fact that we work with them, I think it's a really great example. And then my last example, Simon talked about FMCG and I think some of the work that outpro has been doing to join up their supply chain. So talking about British grown oats, because we know that people really want to support and back British farmers in this marketplace and then making sure that those drinks are full fortified so they're nutritionally adequate and a good alternative to dairy for the customer. I think that's a really great example as well.
• 22:53
  Speaker B: Amazing. There's one influencing, I think just catalyzed the thought in my head, we need a Clarkson version for nutrition.
• 23:00
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 23:01
  Speaker B: And then we need them together, you know, and then they have the power of influence and the partnerships. He wouldn't typically expect to have got more presence and impact than those who are working on the day to day.
• 23:15
  Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. And we were at the launch of the eat Lancet Commission 2025 in Stockholm, and for me, one of the best presentations there was from TikTok, because rightly or wrongly, Big Tech have got such a huge role to play in terms of determining diets. You know, if we're really serious about engaging people in different diets, we're going to have to grapple with Big Tech. And I thought it was great that for all of the things that need to change behind Big Tech, it was great to say, see that there was recognition of the role in social media influencing and determining those dietary choices. And I think that's a space that as experts in food, we could really be doing a lot more.
• 23:54
  Speaker A: It's amazing. And I think you mentioned convergence earlier and it's so fascinating to hear these different elements of AI technology, the awareness, the kind of skills and tools through social media and others that we could really use to drive these outcomes. And I know coming back to an earlier comment you made Ali, about there's trillions of individual actions we need to make. I'd be curious to hear from both of you as you think about kind of our audience stepping into this topic, maybe having engaged a little bit with it, etc. What would be your guidance in terms of how to start to move more aggressively into this space or capture some of these opportunities or start moving down this path.
• 24:37
  Speaker C: So I actually think this podcast is a really good example of what I wanted to talk about. And I know it's really woolly, but I think systems thinking, because so often for lots of us, we're working in our silos. So we're either working in public health, or we're working in nutrition, or we're working in sustainability. And actually we are going to be able to deliver better solutions for human health and the planet if we work together. So I would say one of the things that we actively try and do, and that I certainly try and do, is like work outside of the tent that I'm in to try and be more systems focused in the way that we are thinking through solutions. Because trade offs are also part of that conversation. Right. So we need to be clearer on opportunities and trade offs. And to do that, we need to be working within a much broader church of actors, I think, than just our individual silos. So that's one thing that I would really encourage people to do. Big.
• 25:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And I think there's two builds on the system thinking. So I think one is that there are some trade offs. I read a report that recently about if we shifted our diets to the scale that we needed to, that would have a material impact on stranded assets within our current food supply chain, particularly in the meat industry. And that size of that stranded asset is equivalent to the scale comparable to fossil fuel stranding on the climate transition scenario. So it's massive. Right. So we've got to think of that as like, we all want more healthier global population that has a lower impact on our planetary health. But there are some real big system challenges that we need to tackle. And then from an opportunity perspective, from a system perspective, I think what I love about this, this agenda is that actually it goes beyond food, like health care and public health. So the health care system, pharmaceuticals as well as public health systems, like, they all need to interact and like we need to work more closely together in new ways to transfer knowledge and energy around this challenge in a way that creates shared value across all. And so that's quite complicated. Scary, but it's also very exciting too.
• 27:03
  Speaker A: Well, and I think just the final reflection for me is it's fascinating to hear the systems thinking, the differentiation and the potential of the stranded assets, some of the obstacles, etc. And that potential to allow for some of these organizations to really capture differentiation in the market. And so it's really fascinating to think about how all that comes together and maybe a good reflection for our listeners to think about where does their organization fit within this and is it risk protection or is it value creation? They are the big kind of levers on the scale.
• 27:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And just on that, Chris, I think like from a practical next step, like what we tend to do with our clients because these topics are so big and scary, is just take it down and make it really practical. And so the first step we typically take our clients on this journey is just to do a gap analysis, like to think about the trade offs around agriculture and health and where the opportunities and risks might lie. And that can be really high level. But there's a start. Right. And it would add a lot of value very quickly.
• 28:09
  Speaker C: Yeah. And I think it makes it real for people as well. Right. Because quite often as experts in the food system, we feel like we're working in this day to day, everything feels familiar, etc. But I think a good learning for us is that sometimes concepts that we're talking about can be like really nebulous for people. It's hard for them to really understand what it means. So I think Simon's absolutely right, is that we have to find a way to simplify it for people, which is not easy to do because the food system is complex. So it's a challenge that we're all working on every day.
• 28:40
  Speaker A: Maybe that's a great spot to wrap it up and just to say thank you to you both for kind of raising my awareness and I imagine the awareness of a number of our listeners about kind of the opportunities and some of the challenges and some of the tools that we can be using to move forward here. So thank you both so much.
• 28:56
  Speaker B: Thank you.
• 28:57
  Speaker C: Thanks for a great discussion and thank you for listening.
• 29:01
  Speaker A: Please be sure to check out a number of the resources that were mentioned throughout the podcast, including Simon's thought piece, Health is Wealth, and links to the Planetary Alliance. As always, you can find these and more resources at the Anthesis website at anthesisgroup. Com. Thanks again and take care.
• 29:26
  Speaker B: Of.