Transcript

Credlin | 25 June · Credlin

0:02
Speaker 1: Peter Krandland live on Sky News Australia.
0:08
Speaker 2: Good evening, Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
0:10
Speaker 2: on the show tonight. We'll watch too at NATO to
0:13
Speaker 2: see if we hear from Donald Trump, but overnight to
0:17
Speaker 2: use the F word publicly. I think a few leaders
0:20
Speaker 2: say it behind closed doors, but this points to a
0:22
Speaker 2: broader frustration he clearly has with the Middle East as
0:25
Speaker 2: the current ceasefire looks tenuous at best. If he speaks
0:29
Speaker 2: at the NATO summit, I'll bring you that live. A
0:32
Speaker 2: major blow two to the public broadcast today Antoinette La
0:35
Speaker 2: two wins a un lawful termination case in the Federal court.
0:38
Speaker 2: So how do you oversee get it so wrong? I'll
0:41
Speaker 2: get you an update in a moment. Plus Richard Miles.
0:43
Speaker 2: He's there at NATO and yet more pressure on Australia
0:46
Speaker 2: to increase our defense spending in line with the other nations.
0:49
Speaker 2: They're now edging up to five percent. Miles says this
0:54
Speaker 2: is just tricky accounting, Well is it.
0:56
Speaker 3: Greg Sheridan coming out and Susan Lee.
0:59
Speaker 2: Puts into work is what every Liberal supporters already acknowledged
1:02
Speaker 2: out of May's federal election.
1:05
Speaker 4: We didn't just lose. We got smashed, totally smashed.
1:15
Speaker 2: We'll stay with that speech today by the opposition leader,
1:17
Speaker 2: a big speech effectively apologizing to liberal voters and liberal
1:22
Speaker 2: supporters for letting them down in the coalition's recent catastrophic loss,
1:27
Speaker 2: it's worst ever.
1:29
Speaker 4: Over two elections, the coalition has lost thirty three seats
1:34
Speaker 4: in the House of Representatives. We've lost eight seats in
1:38
Speaker 4: the Senate. Our primary vote has fallen by more than
1:41
Speaker 4: nine percent in the House, our two party preferred vote
1:45
Speaker 4: is down more than six percent, and we hold now
1:51
Speaker 4: just two of forty three inner Metro seats and seven
1:56
Speaker 4: of forty five Outer Metro seats. These numbers reflect a
2:01
Speaker 4: deep and growing disconnect. We respect the election outcome with humility.
2:09
Speaker 2: It was the speech she had to make, the first
2:12
Speaker 2: big speech from a new leader after a heavy loss,
2:15
Speaker 2: promising to listen, promising that the party will do better now.
2:19
Speaker 2: Boiler Plate, Yes, in many respects, but certainly not boiler
2:22
Speaker 2: Plate was her life before politics.
2:26
Speaker 4: I was born in Nigeria to British parents. Between graduating
2:30
Speaker 4: from school and becoming, as I described myself, a farmer's wife,
2:35
Speaker 4: I worked my share of the tough jobs, cleaner waitress,
2:39
Speaker 4: short ordered cook rous about and out back pilot. I
2:44
Speaker 4: was not taken seriously in pilot training. I lived in
2:48
Speaker 4: a bedsit under the bridge in Queenbean, and my clothes
2:51
Speaker 4: were from Vinie's. Because every dollar I made went towards
2:54
Speaker 4: flying lessons. I was told I couldn't get a crop
2:57
Speaker 4: dusting rating because the chemicals wouldamage my unborn children. I
3:02
Speaker 4: was yelled at, hit on and then ignored. I soon
3:06
Speaker 4: found myself working in the shearing sheds, picking up eight
3:09
Speaker 4: hundred fleeces a day, cooking for a team of twenty
3:13
Speaker 4: on woodstoves in high summer, with kerosene fridges and pit toilets.
3:18
Speaker 4: I learned the value of a hard day's manual labor,
3:21
Speaker 4: often in the scorching heat of western Queensland.
3:25
Speaker 2: Eight hundred heavy fleeces in the heat and queens on
3:28
Speaker 2: a tea, that's no mean feat. Later on in life,
3:30
Speaker 2: for mum of three, by this stage the farmer Susan
3:33
Speaker 2: Lee changed course.
3:35
Speaker 4: Balancing the family budget was becoming too hard, so I
3:38
Speaker 4: made a decision that many mums have made before and since,
3:41
Speaker 4: get new skills and bring in extra income. So as
3:45
Speaker 4: I raised my own family, I went to university for
3:48
Speaker 4: the first time age thirty. I still remember the day
3:52
Speaker 4: I walked in to enroll in a Bachelor of Economics
3:55
Speaker 4: at Latrobe University in Woodonga. I kept thinking, really do this.
4:02
Speaker 3: Now?
4:02
Speaker 2: Part of Li's ongoing challenges that for meitting Australians, I
4:05
Speaker 2: don't know who she is, let alone know anything about
4:08
Speaker 2: a quite extraordinary personal story. Her problem is that despite
4:11
Speaker 2: being in the Parliament for twenty four years, she has
4:14
Speaker 2: had or or has almost no political identity. Even inside
4:19
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party. Most of her colleagues had no idea
4:22
Speaker 2: even now how to pronounce her name now in This
4:26
Speaker 2: is because she's the new leader, and the reason she
4:30
Speaker 2: is and was elected you leader is that the party
4:33
Speaker 2: felt it had to have a woman and to overlook
4:35
Speaker 2: her as the former Deputy of the Dutton would only
4:37
Speaker 2: compound their electoral woes. Partly, she got the job because
4:41
Speaker 2: most expected she won't be there long enough to lead
4:44
Speaker 2: them back into government, acknowledging that the first leader after
4:48
Speaker 2: a big loss is likely cannon fodder. And partly she
4:52
Speaker 2: won the leadership because she's never really upset anyone enough
4:56
Speaker 2: to make any enemies. Now, in politics where conviction matters,
5:00
Speaker 2: that's not really a badge you want to wear with
5:02
Speaker 2: much enthusiasm. But all of that to one side. Today's
5:06
Speaker 2: first major speech by Lee to the Press Club was
5:09
Speaker 2: a well crafted, if a little over rehearsed speech in
5:13
Speaker 2: a bid to introduce her to Australians, and Lee definitely
5:17
Speaker 2: deflected any really probing questions from the gallery, mostly by
5:21
Speaker 2: being brief, because it's much easier to talk yourself.
5:25
Speaker 3: Into trouble than out of it.
5:28
Speaker 2: Now for me to be honest, it was not nearly
5:30
Speaker 2: enough economic narrative in what she had to say, and
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Speaker 2: too much focus I thought on social policy areas that
5:36
Speaker 2: sold her short, unfortunately as a woman leader rather than
5:41
Speaker 2: simply the leader. Now that's not to say she should
5:44
Speaker 2: ignore the qualities that women bring to leadership or apologize
5:47
Speaker 2: for them, but I want to see leaders almost stand
5:50
Speaker 2: apart from their gender, as that you did. A great
5:53
Speaker 2: leader who happened to be a woman, definitely not someone
5:56
Speaker 2: defined first and foremost by her sex. Lee's speech today
5:59
Speaker 2: was good start, but there's a huge amount of climb
6:02
Speaker 2: if the coalition and the Liberal Party in particular, is
6:05
Speaker 2: to be competitive at the next election.
6:08
Speaker 4: We will do the hard work to regain your trust
6:11
Speaker 4: and earn your support. In three years time, the Liberal
6:14
Speaker 4: Party will have the honest conversations we need to.
6:20
Speaker 2: And to create the contest with labor that's needed to
6:22
Speaker 2: win elections. She did very well to humanize herself and
6:26
Speaker 2: to let the public know the kind of person she is,
6:29
Speaker 2: especially alluding to some of the family challenges she's faced.
6:33
Speaker 4: I want the women of Australia to hear me when
6:36
Speaker 4: I say to them, as a national leader, I understand
6:40
Speaker 4: the fear you feel when you go for a walk alone,
6:45
Speaker 4: because I have felt that fear too. I understand the
6:49
Speaker 4: pain that comes with coercion and control because I have
6:53
Speaker 4: felt that pain too.
6:56
Speaker 2: Now, in terms of policy, there won't be just the
6:58
Speaker 2: standard review of the election. She said that we are
7:01
Speaker 2: much more fundamental review of what the Liberal Party stands
7:03
Speaker 2: for and who it represents. Bluff cellby an Energy and
7:07
Speaker 2: an Admissions Reduction Working Group.
7:11
Speaker 4: As part of that policy development process, we will establish
7:14
Speaker 4: a dedicated coalition Working Group on Energy and Emissions reduction policy.
7:19
Speaker 3: This group.
7:21
Speaker 4: This group will work directly to me and to David
7:24
Speaker 4: little Proud and over the course of this term, our
7:26
Speaker 4: task will be to develop a plan underpinned by two
7:31
Speaker 4: goals having a stable energy grid which provides affordable and
7:36
Speaker 4: reliable power for Australian households and businesses, and reducing emissions
7:41
Speaker 4: so that we are playing our part in the global effort.
7:46
Speaker 2: But she didn't ask the obvious question, namely, are those
7:50
Speaker 2: two objectives having affordable and reliable power and reducing emissions
7:56
Speaker 2: actually compatible? And my fear is that the Liberals will
8:00
Speaker 2: try and bury the debate via this review, given Lee's
8:04
Speaker 2: statement today that she expects it to run right up
8:06
Speaker 2: until the next election, so beware. It doesn't look like
8:11
Speaker 2: zero's even up for debate under Susan Lee.
8:15
Speaker 3: But it wasn't all reviews and studies.
8:17
Speaker 2: She committed, she said to retaining the policy to spend
8:21
Speaker 2: three percent of GDP on defense, even though this quantum
8:25
Speaker 2: later as it was announced in the election campaign, has
8:27
Speaker 2: already been superseded by the Trump's administration demand that key
8:31
Speaker 2: allies spend at least three point five percent of GDP
8:34
Speaker 2: on their military. Indeed, today around the NATO table that's
8:38
Speaker 2: now up to five percent of GDP once cyber defense
8:41
Speaker 2: and intelligence is included. Understandably, the new Liberal leaders trying
8:46
Speaker 2: to be as inclusive as possible, repeatedly stressing that she
8:49
Speaker 2: wanted the party to quote, respect, reflect and represent modern Australia.
8:54
Speaker 2: And look, I agree with her that the Liberal Party
8:57
Speaker 2: needs much more women in its ranks, but in the end,
9:01
Speaker 2: what the Liberal Party needs most is strong policy and
9:04
Speaker 2: strong personnel, regardless of the candidate's gender. Take the example
9:09
Speaker 2: of the seat of gold Stein that.
9:11
Speaker 3: The Liberals won.
9:12
Speaker 2: In fact, it was the only seat they won at
9:15
Speaker 2: the May election. Tim Wilson won that seat. He's a
9:19
Speaker 2: bloke against a teal woman, up ending the idea that
9:23
Speaker 2: only a Liberal woman can beat a teal woman, and
9:26
Speaker 2: he didn't by engaging with local people and running hard
9:28
Speaker 2: on the coalition's nuclear policy and against Labour's policy to
9:32
Speaker 2: tax unrealized capital gains.
9:35
Speaker 3: On quotas.
9:36
Speaker 2: For pre selecting women, for instance, Lee said that if
9:39
Speaker 2: some state divisions have them, that's fine, If some don't,
9:43
Speaker 2: or that's fine too.
9:45
Speaker 4: We must be a Liberal party that is proudly for
9:47
Speaker 4: women and made up of women. Our party must pre
9:51
Speaker 4: select more women in winnable seats so that we see
9:56
Speaker 4: more Liberal women in federal Parliament. Now I'm agnostic on
10:01
Speaker 4: specific methods to make it happen, but I am a
10:04
Speaker 4: zealot that it actually does happen. Current approaches have clearly
10:09
Speaker 4: not worked, so I'm open to any approach that will.
10:14
Speaker 4: The Liberal Party operates as a federated model, meaning that
10:17
Speaker 4: each state division determines its own preselection rules. If some
10:22
Speaker 4: state divisions choose to implement quotas, that's fine. If others don't,
10:27
Speaker 4: that's also fine. But what is not fine is not
10:31
Speaker 4: having enough women.
10:35
Speaker 2: I might add she was the Shadow Minister for Women
10:38
Speaker 2: and the party's deputy leader, and none of this changed
10:41
Speaker 2: under her watch. So let's hope there's movement here. I'm
10:44
Speaker 2: all in favor of targets with credible mechanisms to achieve them,
10:48
Speaker 2: so targets with teeth, transparency and accountability.
10:52
Speaker 3: But I'll tell you what manatory quota is.
10:54
Speaker 2: Where some seats are only open to women, Well, I
10:57
Speaker 2: regard them as an affront to the merit principle that
11:00
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party is built on. Now, for a brief time,
11:03
Speaker 2: new opposition leaders can get away with sitting on the fence,
11:06
Speaker 2: but well before the next election, the coalition will have
11:08
Speaker 2: to deliver credible policies on difficult issues. Now that'll mean
11:13
Speaker 2: upsetting some colleagues and disagreeing with vested interests and being
11:17
Speaker 2: prepared to have fights rather than just an agreement. Some
11:22
Speaker 2: of them will be big internal fights too, because you
11:25
Speaker 2: can't be all things to everyone and stand on principle.
11:28
Speaker 2: Sooner or later leaders have to take sides, something Susan
11:31
Speaker 2: Lee was scrupulous today not to do. Indeed, today's first
11:36
Speaker 2: question was about the federal factionalism that's currently tearing apart
11:41
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party.
11:43
Speaker 5: Here and now, can you tell us how destructive you
11:46
Speaker 5: think this factionalism is, especially in your state organizations, and
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Speaker 5: what you intend to do about it?
11:59
Speaker 2: And look, Lee, as part of the leader, had surprisingly
12:01
Speaker 2: little to say today about this, except that she'd extended
12:04
Speaker 2: the intervention into faction Riven New South Wales.
12:08
Speaker 4: I supported the intervention that my predecessor put in place.
12:13
Speaker 4: Good work was done by that panel. We've now got
12:16
Speaker 4: a new committee that is taking that work forward with
12:21
Speaker 4: a new constitution rules.
12:24
Speaker 2: But the first committee that she's now replaced, well, they
12:28
Speaker 2: have drafted a new constitution, one designed to give the
12:31
Speaker 2: party back to its members. It's top branches from arbitrarily
12:35
Speaker 2: excluding new members, it stopped conferences from arbitrarily veto and
12:39
Speaker 2: new branches, and it's given all members the right to
12:42
Speaker 2: speak and vote at State Council. Now, essentially, this draft
12:47
Speaker 2: constitution allows all members to say on everything, which is
12:50
Speaker 2: the only way you can beat the factional string pulling.
12:54
Speaker 2: A lot of discouraged members would be more inclined to
12:57
Speaker 2: renew the Liberal Party membership if that heard.
12:59
Speaker 3: The leaders say.
13:01
Speaker 2: Clearly and unequivocally today that she backs internal party democracy,
13:07
Speaker 2: particularly given many things she's a wholly owned subsidiary of
13:10
Speaker 2: a left faction out on your South Wales. But on
13:13
Speaker 2: speaking out against factionalism today, Susan Lee squibbed it, the
13:18
Speaker 2: best way for a Liberal leader to earn the job
13:20
Speaker 2: of leading the country is to successfully lead the Liberal Party,
13:25
Speaker 2: and that most emphatically does not mean waiting for some
13:28
Speaker 2: committee to tell you what to do. So marks today
13:32
Speaker 2: for effort and plenty of marks two for her personal backstory.
13:35
Speaker 2: But policy substance is where the voter's judgment will be
13:38
Speaker 2: made and that's the big job ahead for the Liberals.
13:47
Speaker 2: Or I'm just keeping an eye there on NATO. In
13:49
Speaker 2: the corner of your screen, let's go to canber Tho
13:51
Speaker 2: over the headlines, Skyninges political reporter Trudy McIntosh.
13:55
Speaker 6: As he departed the White House President Donald Trump had
13:59
Speaker 6: this message to run and Israel amid the shaky ceasefire.
14:03
Speaker 7: We basically have two countries that have been fighting so
14:07
Speaker 7: long and so hard that they don't know what they're doing.
14:11
Speaker 8: Do you understand that?
14:12
Speaker 7: I think that he stated his views pretty abruptly and
14:17
Speaker 7: I think they were very clear.
14:19
Speaker 9: The Prime Minister chose not to attend the NATO summit
14:21
Speaker 9: alongside Donald Trump. Richard Miles there in his place for.
14:26
Speaker 10: Richard will do a terrific job representing Australia and as
14:29
Speaker 10: interest Jim, it is a little bit other opportunities for
14:32
Speaker 10: us to engage with the American.
14:33
Speaker 3: I mean, Donald Trump's just not that into albo is he.
14:36
Speaker 10: I don't know how you want me to respond to that, Carl.
14:38
Speaker 8: I doubt that's the case.
14:39
Speaker 6: Meanwhile, more than one hundred Australians have been evacuated out
14:41
Speaker 6: of Tel Aviv on assisted government flights. Thousands made stranded
14:45
Speaker 6: in Iran.
14:46
Speaker 8: The situation is obviously very volatile there.
14:49
Speaker 1: Our hope is that Australian so kept safe.
14:52
Speaker 2: We've got consul staff who are in Azerbaijan providing assistance
14:57
Speaker 2: for those who cross that border.
14:58
Speaker 8: By land out.
14:59
Speaker 9: Of and growing hope for further interest rate relief. Inflation
15:04
Speaker 9: fell to its equal lowest rate in almost four years,
15:07
Speaker 9: the headline rate two point one percent in the year
15:09
Speaker 9: to May, down from two point four percent.
15:12
Speaker 10: Well, I'm reluctant to say it's mission accomplished, but we
15:15
Speaker 10: are certainly making more progress than was expected.
15:21
Speaker 3: All Right, plenty to get across. Let's bringing my team.
15:23
Speaker 2: Send your political reporter Tritty Macintosh and send your political
15:26
Speaker 2: reporter Carolyn Marcus out of Sydney, will go if we can.
15:30
Speaker 2: To start off with Susan Lee's speech today at the
15:32
Speaker 2: Press Club. Not a lot of detail there in terms
15:34
Speaker 2: of reform. She talked about a number of reviews of
15:38
Speaker 2: the party. She skated across affair about a policy detail,
15:42
Speaker 2: but she really did open up about her personal story
15:45
Speaker 2: and I thought, Trudy, she did a best to take
15:46
Speaker 2: on the Liberal Party is shocking loss and make no
15:50
Speaker 2: bones about how devastating it was. You've got to give
15:54
Speaker 2: this sort of speech after a loss of this magnitude.
15:57
Speaker 3: I thought she did well too.
15:59
Speaker 2: As I say, intra use herself because the vast majority
16:02
Speaker 2: of Australia's have got no idea who she is.
16:05
Speaker 3: How did you think she went.
16:07
Speaker 8: Yeah.
16:08
Speaker 9: I think it was a fairly good outing for Susan Lee,
16:09
Speaker 9: as good as you could have hoped from her perspective.
16:11
Speaker 9: The difficulty at this time is what level of political
16:15
Speaker 9: oxygen there is there for the Australian people to be
16:17
Speaker 9: watching these sort of things very closely. There's a lot
16:19
Speaker 9: going on in the world. They just had a huge
16:22
Speaker 9: resounding defeat. I thought the unanswered policy questions is the
16:26
Speaker 9: big thing in terms of this opposition over the next
16:28
Speaker 9: three years. What does the Liberal Party stand for? How
16:31
Speaker 9: does it resolve the big tension points with the junior
16:34
Speaker 9: coalition partner, the Nationals on that we were never expecting
16:37
Speaker 9: policy answers. Really today it's been kicked down the road
16:40
Speaker 9: in terms of what's going to happen the rest of
16:42
Speaker 9: this week. Tomorrow there's going to be the Shadow Cabinet
16:44
Speaker 9: meeting here and then on Friday the full Liberal Party
16:47
Speaker 9: room's going to come together.
16:49
Speaker 3: I'm told there the MP's.
16:50
Speaker 9: Are going to get this briefing about how they can
16:52
Speaker 9: be more involved in actually coming up with the party's
16:55
Speaker 9: policies going forward. The lead team believes that there was
16:58
Speaker 9: too much top down the Dutton side in the last
17:01
Speaker 9: three years that more needs to come that MPs should
17:04
Speaker 9: be able to come up with proposals and actually funnel
17:06
Speaker 9: them up to the leadership team.
17:10
Speaker 2: Well that's why I used to work these three things
17:11
Speaker 2: called backbench policy committees. They clearly must have been that
17:15
Speaker 2: jump somewhere along the way between Morrison, Dutton, maybe turmberl
17:18
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I hope those things come back
17:20
Speaker 2: because they are critical. Let's go to the Federal Court today, Caroline,
17:23
Speaker 2: you were there when the judge brought down that decision
17:25
Speaker 2: between former ABC journalist Antoinette Latouffe and our public broadcaster.
17:31
Speaker 2: The Australian's legal contributor Chris merritt wiged in a little
17:33
Speaker 2: earlier in the day and what it means for the ABC.
17:38
Speaker 11: So slap on the face for the ABC, particularly for
17:41
Speaker 11: its management systems. The absolute killer point was that the ABC.
17:47
Speaker 11: The basis for removing miss Latouh from here was the
17:52
Speaker 11: assertion by the ABC that it had given her a
17:56
Speaker 11: direction not to post the ABC. During evidence, an official
18:01
Speaker 11: who delivered that instruction actually conceded that it was not
18:05
Speaker 11: a direction, it was a suggestion. So that undermined that
18:11
Speaker 11: very very strongly.
18:14
Speaker 3: Caroline.
18:14
Speaker 2: The ABC is make a bit of a habit of
18:17
Speaker 2: spending taxpayers money on legal cases, it loses what's going
18:21
Speaker 2: on here.
18:22
Speaker 12: Well, in this case, it's been ordered to pay Antoinette
18:25
Speaker 12: Latouf seventy thousand dollars in damages for the hurt, distress
18:29
Speaker 12: and humiliation it caused her over unlawfully terminating her contract.
18:34
Speaker 12: But it will pay much more than that in legal
18:37
Speaker 12: costs and pecuniary penalties that the judge is going to
18:41
Speaker 12: impose at a later date, that is penalties for breaking
18:44
Speaker 12: the law. Now, its current managing director, Hugh Marx has
18:48
Speaker 12: already gone on air today on the ABC saying they
18:51
Speaker 12: should not have spent many millions of month dollars defending
18:55
Speaker 12: this case, but they had, as miss Latou's lawyer point
19:00
Speaker 12: outside court declined to settle with her for eighty five
19:04
Speaker 12: thousand dollars last year, so taxpayers will have a very
19:07
Speaker 12: big bill to pay. But in terms of the court case,
19:11
Speaker 12: the judge was very strong on the point that he
19:14
Speaker 12: found the ABC had breached the Fair Work Act by
19:18
Speaker 12: unlawfully sacking mislatoof for political opinions. Now, she had been
19:26
Speaker 12: employed at the ABC for just a five day stint
19:29
Speaker 12: to present their morning's radio program, over the December period
19:35
Speaker 12: in twenty twenty three. Two days into that stint, she
19:38
Speaker 12: posted to her Instagram page a post saying Human Rights
19:44
Speaker 12: Watch is reporting starvation as a tool of war about
19:48
Speaker 12: the Israeli military action in Gaza, and the next day,
19:51
Speaker 12: after her shift, she was hauled into a meeting with
19:54
Speaker 12: management who told her to pack her bags and leave. Now,
19:57
Speaker 12: the ABC had argued in the case they'd give in
20:00
Speaker 12: her a direction not to post. As you heard Chris
20:02
Speaker 12: Merritt explain there, the evidence that was born out showed
20:06
Speaker 12: it was more advice, and that's what the judge accepted.
20:09
Speaker 12: But he also was critical of the post itself. And
20:13
Speaker 12: I think it's important to show your viewers this, Peter,
20:16
Speaker 12: because not only that, he also dismissed miss Latouff's claims
20:21
Speaker 12: that another reason she was let go by the ABC
20:24
Speaker 12: was due to her race and the fact that she's
20:28
Speaker 12: of Lebanese Arab descent. This is what the judge had
20:31
Speaker 12: to say.
20:32
Speaker 13: The HRW post was bound to be controversial. It was
20:36
Speaker 13: Latouf's making of the HRW post was ill advised and
20:39
Speaker 13: inconsiderate of her employer. I have no hesitation in accepting
20:42
Speaker 13: the evidence of those witnesses that their actions were not
20:45
Speaker 13: motivated to any extent by miss Latouf's race or national extraction.
20:52
Speaker 2: Thank you, Carolyn more for that will come from that
20:54
Speaker 2: when the judge gets back into the courtroom and finishes
20:57
Speaker 2: the pecuniary penalties.
20:58
Speaker 3: As you've just said, let's go to the treasurers.
21:01
Speaker 2: Well, I want to say it's a productivity around table truty,
21:03
Speaker 2: but it's sort of morphed away from that.
21:05
Speaker 3: That's what the.
21:06
Speaker 2: Prime Minister announced. It's now nothing to do with productivity.
21:09
Speaker 2: It's about tax reform, which for labor means tax hikes
21:13
Speaker 2: or tax increases, changes to taxation, let's call it. But
21:17
Speaker 2: he's been worn in the States already. Do not get greedy,
21:20
Speaker 2: he says, when it comes to the GST.
21:24
Speaker 10: That's not unusual for the states and territories to put
21:28
Speaker 10: their hand up for a bigger revenue base or for
21:32
Speaker 10: more commonwealth support, more commonwealth funding.
21:34
Speaker 8: That's been a.
21:36
Speaker 10: Pretty frequent occurrence over recent years, in recent decades, since
21:40
Speaker 10: the GST was introduced.
21:43
Speaker 3: They'll push and shava tell you what.
21:45
Speaker 2: But he's clearly laying the groundwork for some sort of
21:49
Speaker 2: tax hike across the board, isn't he.
21:52
Speaker 6: There's these twin.
21:53
Speaker 3: Tracks going on at the moment.
21:54
Speaker 9: The States always want more share of the GST pie
21:58
Speaker 9: that's to one side really of this round table. Will
22:01
Speaker 9: that states, to my understanding, won't have a seat at
22:04
Speaker 9: the table. This is more about federally, whether there is
22:07
Speaker 9: an appetite for changes to the GST, say either broadening
22:10
Speaker 9: it or lifting the rate in terms of then compensating
22:14
Speaker 9: for that in the form of income tax cuts.
22:17
Speaker 6: There has been a shift in the last week.
22:18
Speaker 9: When I was at press club with Jim Chalmers about
22:20
Speaker 9: a week ago, he seemed to indicate that he wasn't
22:22
Speaker 9: really open to the idea that he's never been comfortable
22:25
Speaker 9: with how you compensate people for the GST change. And
22:29
Speaker 9: now the language is that they are don't want to
22:32
Speaker 9: artificially limit, in his words, the contributions that we will
22:35
Speaker 9: see at this closed door round table. So watch this
22:38
Speaker 9: space as to whether they actually do have the appetite
22:40
Speaker 9: to go down the past of GST reform heard it
22:43
Speaker 9: all before under previous coalition governments, and they all found
22:45
Speaker 9: it was too hot, all right, Well.
22:50
Speaker 2: They were just picking up their President Trump there and
22:53
Speaker 2: Mark Rutter, who's the Secretary General of NATO let's have
22:56
Speaker 2: a listen to five for.
22:57
Speaker 8: A number of years, and they're going up to five percent.
23:01
Speaker 7: That's a big from two percent, and a lot of
23:04
Speaker 7: people didn't even pay the two percent.
23:06
Speaker 8: So I think it's going to be very big news later.
23:09
Speaker 7: It's going to become very strong with us, and I
23:12
Speaker 7: appreciate doing it.
23:14
Speaker 8: Perhaps you want a job, yeah, absolutely. I mean first,
23:16
Speaker 8: before I go to spending, I just want to recognize
23:19
Speaker 8: you are the size of extra all you are. You
23:22
Speaker 8: were men of strength because you're also a man of peace.
23:27
Speaker 1: And the fact that you are now also successful in
23:29
Speaker 1: getting this ceasefire down between Israel and Aram. I really
23:33
Speaker 1: want to overcommend you for it, and I think this
23:35
Speaker 1: is important for the whole world. Then on spending, it's
23:38
Speaker 1: absolutely true. I want to state here, without President Trump,
23:42
Speaker 1: this would not have had in three stages. And you
23:45
Speaker 1: became presidents in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen. You force your
23:50
Speaker 1: beers a Canadian tobay more. At this moment, the result
23:53
Speaker 1: of dead face is one trillion extra agricut defense spending by.
23:58
Speaker 8: The Canadians and the Europeans. Then game phase two and
24:01
Speaker 8: you became pleasant than.
24:02
Speaker 1: January laws year Pax two is that all the countries
24:05
Speaker 1: not yet on two percent have now committed to the
24:07
Speaker 1: two percent. This is the old goal from Wills in
24:09
Speaker 1: twenty forty seven.
24:11
Speaker 8: We're not on two percent.
24:12
Speaker 1: Some are saying somewhere in the twenty thirties. Now this year,
24:15
Speaker 1: all of them, including Canada, including Italy, including Belgium, they
24:18
Speaker 1: have all now committed to the two percent, and now
24:21
Speaker 1: comes to big splash. Today we will decide to go
24:25
Speaker 1: to five percent. We have to keep ourselves safe for
24:27
Speaker 1: our exverciies, but also because it is fair to equalize
24:31
Speaker 1: with the United States.
24:33
Speaker 8: When is this five percent? The Europeans and the Canadians
24:36
Speaker 8: will equalize their defense spending.
24:39
Speaker 1: With the United States. So this is not about American
24:41
Speaker 1: text players paying more. This is about Europeans Canadians paying more.
24:46
Speaker 8: And again, this would not have happened.
24:48
Speaker 1: I'm really saying this year, and some people might criticize me,
24:51
Speaker 1: but then when I speak with them, they all say, yes,
24:53
Speaker 1: you're right. This would not have happened if you would
24:56
Speaker 1: not have been elected to twenty sixteen and re elected
25:00
Speaker 1: last year and beckon to office.
25:01
Speaker 7: In general, think, well, thank you very much. It's a
25:04
Speaker 7: great victory for everybody. I think, and we will be
25:07
Speaker 7: equalized very shortly. And that's the way it has to be.
25:10
Speaker 7: It's going to be a lot of money too, a
25:11
Speaker 7: lot of DEFENSE'SI yeah, we have we have a great relationship,
25:16
Speaker 7: and we've had a great relationship from the beginning.
25:18
Speaker 8: Highly respected man.
25:20
Speaker 7: And yeah, we appreciate you being here too, everybody, We
25:24
Speaker 7: really do. We have a tremendous group of people on
25:26
Speaker 7: my left and a tremendous group of people on my right.
25:29
Speaker 8: They might be even better than my people.
25:33
Speaker 7: Let's have a fight, let's figure it out anyway, but
25:36
Speaker 7: we appreciate it. And we've had a tremendous relationship, Mark,
25:40
Speaker 7: and we've really worked on this subject for.
25:43
Speaker 8: A long time. When Biden was here, it just died,
25:47
Speaker 8: just died, like everything else died. And now it's you're
25:51
Speaker 8: gonna take I guess I'll go today. So today we
25:53
Speaker 8: will decide for none of us to do this.
25:55
Speaker 1: That's my absolute So we.
25:58
Speaker 7: Can't we can't talk about it until the book's taken,
26:01
Speaker 7: because sometimes you know, strange things happened to the good.
26:04
Speaker 8: But I think you did. I think you're going to
26:06
Speaker 8: do very well. Everyone's very happy. Go ahead, Yes, how
26:09
Speaker 8: is the Iran Israel ceasefire going in your opinion on it,
26:12
Speaker 8: I think very good. I think very good.
26:15
Speaker 7: Israel came back yesterday. I was so proud of them
26:18
Speaker 7: because they came back. You know, they went out because
26:20
Speaker 7: they felt it was a violation, and technically they were right,
26:24
Speaker 7: but it just wouldn't have worked out very well. And
26:27
Speaker 7: they brought the planes back. They had gone on to
26:30
Speaker 7: another journey because it was a little bit of.
26:32
Speaker 8: A violation, and I said, you got to get him back.
26:35
Speaker 8: And they came back and it was a great thing.
26:37
Speaker 7: And it's going very well.
26:40
Speaker 8: Plenty is a response to for our minister that you
26:42
Speaker 8: still want to enrich you appear. I love Katie, She's
26:45
Speaker 8: so great. This well, any question, she asked, I'll answer, well,
26:48
Speaker 8: maybe I better less her. What was your question? What
26:52
Speaker 8: is your response to the Uranian Foreign minister continued to
26:55
Speaker 8: say about the enriched uranium and for Senior Clear uppons, well.
26:59
Speaker 7: I don't know if they've said that, but I'll tell
27:00
Speaker 7: you the last.
27:00
Speaker 8: Thing they want to do is enrich anything.
27:02
Speaker 7: Right now.
27:02
Speaker 8: They want to recover, and we won't let that happen.
27:06
Speaker 8: Number one, militarily, we won't.
27:08
Speaker 7: I think we'll end up having somewhat of a relationship
27:11
Speaker 7: with a run and see it. Look, I've had a
27:13
Speaker 7: relationship over the last four days. They agreed to the
27:15
Speaker 7: cease fire, and it was a very equal agreement. They
27:18
Speaker 7: both said that's enough. They both said it. But no,
27:22
Speaker 7: they won't do that. The last thing they want to do,
27:24
Speaker 7: Katie is enriched.
27:25
Speaker 8: They're not looking to. Can you imagine after all of
27:29
Speaker 8: that they say, oh, let's go and do a bomb.
27:33
Speaker 7: You know, there could be a day in the future
27:35
Speaker 7: will and then somebody else taking our place will be
27:38
Speaker 7: saying don't do it, and maybe they won't do it
27:41
Speaker 7: as well.
27:41
Speaker 14: I don't know, but they're not going to have a
27:43
Speaker 14: bomb and they're not.
27:44
Speaker 8: Going to enrich. And we believe all of the stuff
27:47
Speaker 8: is down there. We don't think they had nearly the
27:48
Speaker 8: time because to get that out is a very difficult thing.
27:51
Speaker 8: It's not like it's.
27:52
Speaker 7: Not like moving a package or taking this carpet.
27:54
Speaker 8: Up and moving it. It's very difficult, it's very dangerous
27:56
Speaker 8: to do. We believe it's all down there.
28:00
Speaker 7: We had a tremendous victory, a tremendous hit, and because
28:04
Speaker 7: of that they I don't.
28:06
Speaker 14: Think they would have been down there because they knew
28:07
Speaker 14: we were coming. When they know we're coming, they're not
28:09
Speaker 14: going to be down to that, you know, thirty stories underground.
28:13
Speaker 14: So no, I think it was just a tremendous victory
28:17
Speaker 14: for everybody.
28:18
Speaker 8: Including a red Look. You know, they've got.
28:20
Speaker 7: A country and they've got oil, and they're very smart people.
28:24
Speaker 8: They can come back.
28:25
Speaker 7: Israel got hit very hard, especially the last couple of days.
28:29
Speaker 7: Israel has hit really hard. Those ballistic missiles. Boy, they
28:32
Speaker 7: took out a lot of buildings and they've been great.
28:36
Speaker 8: Bbing At Yaho.
28:37
Speaker 7: Should be very proud of themselves, and they've really been great.
28:41
Speaker 8: But they're not going to be building bumps for a
28:43
Speaker 8: long time.
28:45
Speaker 15: Your reaction to the intelligence reports saying.
28:48
Speaker 16: That the Iranian Hussites were only partially.
28:53
Speaker 7: Devastated, not entirely, Well, they said it was actually the
28:56
Speaker 7: report said it could have been very They don't know.
28:59
Speaker 8: I mean they did a report. I could have Pete
29:02
Speaker 8: talk to it because his department.
29:04
Speaker 7: Did the report. They really don't know. I think Israel's
29:07
Speaker 7: going to be telling us very soon because BB is
29:10
Speaker 7: going to have people involved in that whole situation. We
29:15
Speaker 7: hear it was obliteration. It was a virtual obliteration. When
29:18
Speaker 7: you take a look at the ground above, don't forget
29:20
Speaker 7: the flame is all underground, but everything above. If you
29:23
Speaker 7: look at the before and the after picture, everything above
29:26
Speaker 7: is burned black, the trees, everything. There's one building, but
29:30
Speaker 7: that's a building that sunk substantially into the granite so
29:34
Speaker 7: that the fire goes right over it. It was I
29:38
Speaker 7: believe it was total obliteration. I believe they didn't have
29:41
Speaker 7: a chance to get anything out because we acted fast.
29:43
Speaker 7: If it would have taken two weeks, maybe, but it's
29:46
Speaker 7: very hard to remove that kind of.
29:48
Speaker 8: Material, very hard and very dangerous to them. They're remove it.
29:51
Speaker 7: Plus, they knew we were coming, and if they know
29:54
Speaker 7: we're coming, they're not going to be down there. There
29:57
Speaker 7: aren't too many people that are going to be down there.
30:00
Speaker 7: You have something to say about.
30:01
Speaker 17: It, MS President, when you talk to the people who
30:03
Speaker 17: built the bombs, understand what those bombs can do, and
30:06
Speaker 17: deliver those bombs. They landed precisely where they were supposed
30:10
Speaker 17: to do. So was a flawless mission, flawless right down
30:13
Speaker 17: where we knew they needed to enter. And given the
30:16
Speaker 17: thirty thousand pounds of explosives and capability of those munitions.
30:20
Speaker 17: It was devastation underneath Fordell and the amount of munitions
30:24
Speaker 17: six per location. Any assessment that tells you it was
30:28
Speaker 17: something otherwise is speculating with other motives. And we know
30:31
Speaker 17: that because when you actually look at the report, by
30:34
Speaker 17: the way, it was a top secret report, it was preliminary,
30:38
Speaker 17: it was low confidence, all right, So this isn't you
30:41
Speaker 17: make assessments based on what you know that it said
30:44
Speaker 17: it could be very devastating very soon, moderns severe and
30:47
Speaker 17: we believe far more likely severe and obliterated.
30:51
Speaker 8: So this is a political motive here investigation.
30:53
Speaker 17: Of course, we're doing a leak investigation with the FBI
30:56
Speaker 17: right now because this information is for internal purposes. Battled
31:00
Speaker 17: amage assessments and CNN and others are trying to spin
31:03
Speaker 17: it to make the president look bad when this was
31:05
Speaker 17: an overwhelming success.
31:06
Speaker 7: We had a tremendous success. And this is the New
31:09
Speaker 7: York Times. I call it the failing New York Times.
31:11
Speaker 7: It's gone to l and CNN, which is, you know,
31:14
Speaker 7: very few people are watching, and you would think they
31:18
Speaker 7: do the opposite. You would think they'd want to say
31:20
Speaker 7: this was an unbelievable success.
31:22
Speaker 8: And the thing that hurts me is it's really.
31:24
Speaker 7: Demeaning to the pilots and the people that put that
31:26
Speaker 7: whole thing together, the generals.
31:29
Speaker 8: That was a perfect operation. And when you look at
31:32
Speaker 8: the holes and this.
31:33
Speaker 7: Was done from fifty two thousand feet there was no moon,
31:36
Speaker 7: there was no light, and those three holes are right together.
31:40
Speaker 7: And also, and nobody talks about this, we shot thirty
31:44
Speaker 7: tomahawks from submarines. In particular was submarine, but that was
31:49
Speaker 7: four hundred miles away and every one of those tomahawks
31:53
Speaker 7: hit within a foot of where it was supposed to hit,
31:56
Speaker 7: took out a lot of buildings that Israel wasn't able
31:59
Speaker 7: to get, took them out with tom hawks.
32:01
Speaker 8: We don't even talk about that.
32:03
Speaker 7: This was a devastating attack and it knocked them for
32:07
Speaker 7: a loop. And you know, if it didn't they wouldn't
32:10
Speaker 7: have settled. If they had if they had won, if
32:13
Speaker 7: we didn't take it out, they wouldn't have settled. Somebody
32:15
Speaker 7: mentioned that to me day. If that thing wasn't devastated,
32:18
Speaker 7: they would have never settled.
32:19
Speaker 8: Market do you have something.
32:21
Speaker 16: First of all, all the stuff about the intelligence, this
32:23
Speaker 16: is what a leaker is telling you.
32:25
Speaker 8: The intelligence says, that's the game. These people play, They
32:27
Speaker 8: read it.
32:28
Speaker 16: And then they go out and characterize it the way
32:30
Speaker 16: they want to characterize. And their leakers this is the
32:32
Speaker 16: game they play.
32:33
Speaker 8: So that's number one.
32:34
Speaker 16: Number two, here's a fact, the conversion facility, which you
32:37
Speaker 16: can't do with nuclear weapon. Without a conversion facility, you can't.
32:40
Speaker 16: We can't even find where it is where it used
32:42
Speaker 16: to be on the map.
32:43
Speaker 8: You can't even find where it used to because the
32:44
Speaker 8: whole thing is just blackened out. It's gone, it's wiped out,
32:47
Speaker 8: it's wiped out.
32:48
Speaker 16: Then we dropped twelve of the strongest bombs on the
32:50
Speaker 16: planet right down the hole in two places. Everything underneath
32:54
Speaker 16: that mountain is in bad shape. And I refer you
32:56
Speaker 16: to the statement of the IEA, mister Grossi, you know
32:59
Speaker 16: what he said.
33:00
Speaker 8: He said there was.
33:00
Speaker 16: Iran the way it looked the day before the attack,
33:03
Speaker 16: and what their nuclear program looks like now two very
33:06
Speaker 16: different things. They are way behind where they were just
33:08
Speaker 16: seven days ago. Now, anything in the world can be rebuilt,
33:12
Speaker 16: but now we know where it is, and if they
33:13
Speaker 16: try to rebuild it, we'll have options there as well.
33:15
Speaker 16: But all this leaker stuff, these leakers are professional stabbers,
33:19
Speaker 16: that's what they are. They go out and they read
33:21
Speaker 16: this stuff and then they tell you what it says
33:24
Speaker 16: against the law, but they characterize.
33:26
Speaker 8: It for you in a way that absolutely faults. There's
33:29
Speaker 8: no way.
33:29
Speaker 16: Iran comes to the table of somehow nothing had happened.
33:32
Speaker 16: This was complete and total obliteration. They're in bad shape.
33:36
Speaker 16: They are way behind today compared to where they were
33:38
Speaker 16: just seven days ago because of what the President did.
33:40
Speaker 1: Michael alerts you to among other aspects.
33:43
Speaker 8: So the great thing is you took out your capability
33:46
Speaker 8: of your helm. This was crucial. You did it in
33:48
Speaker 8: a way which is extremely impressive.
33:51
Speaker 1: But the sacred sense to the rest of the world,
33:53
Speaker 1: the disc presidence when it comes to it, Yes, he's
33:55
Speaker 1: a mental speech, but if necessary, he is willing to
33:58
Speaker 1: use strength enormous strengths of the American military. I think
34:03
Speaker 1: that signal to the rest of the world, this is
34:05
Speaker 1: far beyond you run is extremely important. So that we
34:08
Speaker 1: also port those student debts aspect of what happens.
34:11
Speaker 8: And they went down. Iran went down to the site.
34:14
Speaker 7: Afterwards, they said, it's so devastated and they settled when
34:18
Speaker 7: they saw what we did to it, and frankly, if
34:21
Speaker 7: we didn't do that, they would have had a lot
34:23
Speaker 7: of ammunition to keep going.
34:24
Speaker 8: They wouldn't have settled.
34:26
Speaker 7: Somebody brought that up and two Iranians went down to
34:29
Speaker 7: see it, and they called back and they said, this
34:31
Speaker 7: place is gone. So it's just fake news by CNN,
34:35
Speaker 7: which has got no ratings.
34:36
Speaker 8: It's a failed network.
34:37
Speaker 7: Anybody here from CNN by the way.
34:39
Speaker 8: Because you're really disgraceful network. MSNBC I think is actually worse,
34:44
Speaker 8: but they're all pretty bad producers. Good Katie, I'll tell
34:47
Speaker 8: you you know what.
34:49
Speaker 7: Marco reminded me that you did such a nice job there.
34:52
Speaker 7: It was nine years ago. I had to debate this guy.
34:54
Speaker 7: It was not easy.
34:57
Speaker 8: I think he even got better. You were into your
35:00
Speaker 8: little thing. I said, this is when I had to
35:02
Speaker 8: to bake this guy.
35:03
Speaker 17: You think it's how long do you think that the
35:07
Speaker 17: IRNA NUCID program has been got back.
35:09
Speaker 8: By these by these strikes? Y.
35:13
Speaker 7: I think it's basically decades. Because I don't think they'll
35:15
Speaker 7: ever do it again. I just don't think they're going to.
35:18
Speaker 7: I think they're going to take their oil, they're going
35:20
Speaker 7: to have some missiles and they'll have some defense. I
35:24
Speaker 7: think they've had it. I mean, they just went through hell.
35:27
Speaker 7: I think they've had it. The last thing they want to.
35:30
Speaker 8: Do is enrich. They've been trying to do it. By
35:33
Speaker 8: the way, it's hard to enrich.
35:34
Speaker 7: And you know, when you look at a site like that,
35:37
Speaker 7: very very hard to build, very very hard, very expensive.
35:40
Speaker 7: If they spent trillions of dollars trying to do this
35:43
Speaker 7: thing and they didn't come up with it, and we're actually.
35:46
Speaker 8: Getting along with them very well right now.
35:49
Speaker 7: But had we not succeeded with that hit, that hit
35:52
Speaker 7: ended the war. That hit ended the war. I don't
35:56
Speaker 7: want to use an example of Hiroshima, I don't want
35:59
Speaker 7: to use an example of Nagasaki, but that was essentially
36:03
Speaker 7: the same thing that ended that war. This ended that
36:06
Speaker 7: with the war. If we didn't take that out, they
36:08
Speaker 7: would have been they'd be fighting right now.
36:10
Speaker 8: Mister President. Yeah, it's the arrangiance to rebuilt. If they
36:15
Speaker 8: rebuilt within the United States, strike again, and I've but
36:19
Speaker 8: I'm not gonna have to worry about that.
36:20
Speaker 7: It's gone for years years, very tough to rebuild because
36:25
Speaker 7: the whole thing is collapsed. In other words, inside it's
36:28
Speaker 7: all collapsed. Nobody can get in to see it because
36:31
Speaker 7: it's collapsed. You can't go into see a room that
36:34
Speaker 7: has you know, ten million tons of rock.
36:36
Speaker 8: In it and the tunnels are totally collapsed reuilt. Well,
36:41
Speaker 8: they've already looked at the tunnels, said this was.
36:44
Speaker 7: An unbelievable hit by genius pilots and genius people in
36:48
Speaker 7: the military, and they're not being given credit for it
36:51
Speaker 7: because we have scum that's in this group and not
36:54
Speaker 7: all I v are.
36:55
Speaker 8: You have some great reporters, but you have scum.
36:58
Speaker 7: CNN is scum, MSDS is scum.
37:01
Speaker 8: The New York Times is scum. They're bad people, they're sick.
37:05
Speaker 7: And what they've done is they're trying to make this
37:08
Speaker 7: unbelievable victory into something less.
37:11
Speaker 8: Now even they admit that it was hit very hard, okay,
37:15
Speaker 8: but it wasn't hit. It was hit brutally and it
37:18
Speaker 8: knocked it out.
37:19
Speaker 7: The original word that I use, I guess it got
37:22
Speaker 7: us in trouble because it's a strong word. It was obliteration.
37:26
Speaker 7: And you'll see that and it's going to come out.
37:29
Speaker 7: Israel is doing a report on it now I understand,
37:33
Speaker 7: and I was told that they said it was total obliteration.
37:36
Speaker 7: You know, they have guys that go in there after
37:39
Speaker 7: the hit and they said it was total obliteration.
37:43
Speaker 8: And you know, I don't want it for me.
37:44
Speaker 7: I wanted for the pilots. I wanted for the military.
37:46
Speaker 7: They did such a good job. If you were in
37:47
Speaker 7: the situation.
37:48
Speaker 8: Room with me, with the generals and all of the
37:51
Speaker 8: people that did such a good job.
37:53
Speaker 7: And then they get demeaned by these idiots at CNN
37:55
Speaker 7: who can't get ratings of places dying. Nobody wants to
37:58
Speaker 7: even waste their time going on it shows, So they
38:01
Speaker 7: formed with the New.
38:02
Speaker 8: York Times Who's Dying? Also, without Trump, you wouldn't have
38:05
Speaker 8: a New York Times. And then just Jijiors.
38:08
Speaker 9: Your meeting with Zelenski later today, can you give us
38:12
Speaker 9: any preview?
38:13
Speaker 8: What was sho we might be discussing. No, well, we'll
38:15
Speaker 8: discuss the obvious. We'll discuss his difficulty. He's got a
38:19
Speaker 8: little difficulty, U Zelenski. It's a nice guy. I mean,
38:23
Speaker 8: I'm going to meet him today. I don't know. I said,
38:25
Speaker 8: we're going to be discussing Ukraine. Yeah, it seems like
38:28
Speaker 8: any be starved house there or anything that you might do. Well,
38:33
Speaker 8: we're going to see.
38:34
Speaker 7: I mean, I've spoken to putin a lot and he
38:36
Speaker 7: actually was very nice.
38:37
Speaker 8: He volunteered help on as you know Iran. I said, no,
38:42
Speaker 8: I don't need help on in Iran. I need help
38:43
Speaker 8: on Russia.
38:45
Speaker 7: Okay, I said it could be a favorite, help us
38:47
Speaker 7: on Russia, not on Iran.
38:49
Speaker 8: But he was very nice. We're going to talk about that.
38:53
Speaker 8: We're going to talk. I think progress is being made.
38:55
Speaker 8: I think great progress is being made on Gaza.
38:58
Speaker 7: I think the because of this attack that we made,
39:01
Speaker 7: I think we're.
39:02
Speaker 8: Gonna have some very good news. I was talking to.
39:04
Speaker 7: Steve Whitcoff, who, by the way, is terrific and who
39:06
Speaker 7: knows more about this subject than anybody, the subject of
39:09
Speaker 7: what we were just talking about. It was on last
39:11
Speaker 7: night with Jesse and with Laura and with Sean and
39:19
Speaker 7: boy Susan. He has a great take on it. He
39:22
Speaker 7: just explains it so easily. He's really very knowledgeable. But
39:25
Speaker 7: he did tell me that Gaza is very close.
39:32
Speaker 16: One follow up on around booth, you and Secretary of
39:35
Speaker 16: Ruvio and Hesseth.
39:36
Speaker 17: Mentioned the lead but can you clarify is the intelligence
39:39
Speaker 17: correct for the intelligence wrong?
39:41
Speaker 7: Well, the intelligence was was very inconclusive.
39:44
Speaker 8: The intelligence says, we don't know.
39:46
Speaker 7: It could have been very severe that's what the intelligence says.
39:51
Speaker 8: So I guess that's correct. But I think we can
39:54
Speaker 8: take that. We don't know. It was very severe. It
39:57
Speaker 8: was obliteration.
39:59
Speaker 7: Uh and you think that a media outlet would say,
40:03
Speaker 7: isn't that a great thing?
40:04
Speaker 8: I mean, more importantly for the pilots, for the military.
40:07
Speaker 7: You take their guts out, you take their absolute guts out.
40:10
Speaker 7: They had a tremendous attack. It was a complete obliteration.
40:14
Speaker 7: The other team, the other group, Iran said let's stop this,
40:21
Speaker 7: and you know what is Reel said it too, very smart.
40:25
Speaker 7: They fought like hell, and then they said let's stop,
40:28
Speaker 7: and they're going to build themselves. And I really see
40:30
Speaker 7: it as thinking, I mean, we may do papers on it, Marco.
40:33
Speaker 8: Maybe we're going to do papers. I don't even know
40:35
Speaker 8: if you need them. They're not going to be fighting
40:37
Speaker 8: each other. They've had it.
40:39
Speaker 7: They've got a big fight, like two kids in a
40:40
Speaker 7: school yard. You know, they fight like hell. You can't
40:43
Speaker 7: stop them. Let him fight for about two three minutes.
40:45
Speaker 7: Then it's easier to stop them.
40:47
Speaker 8: And then Betty has sometimes strong language. Strong everyone said,
40:51
Speaker 8: all you have to use a certain word. I think
40:53
Speaker 8: you have to. Yes, we're going to join some other
40:56
Speaker 8: gu Yes, thank you Katie.
40:57
Speaker 7: One question, do you thank you so bad?
41:03
Speaker 8: She used to be very difficult.
41:06
Speaker 9: Do you believe that this Irani nuclear program will lead
41:10
Speaker 9: to the release.
41:10
Speaker 8: Of the hostages?
41:11
Speaker 7: And I think that it helped a little bit and
41:14
Speaker 7: showed a lot of power. Yeah, I think it helped.
41:17
Speaker 7: But we're going to get separately. Even before this, we
41:21
Speaker 7: were very close to making a deal on Gaza. I
41:23
Speaker 7: think this helped. Yes, thank you, thank you.
41:26
Speaker 8: Thank you everybody, and thank you, thank you, thank you.
41:36
Speaker 8: Than be very good work.
41:44
Speaker 3: All right, we're coming out of that now.
41:45
Speaker 2: That's clearly a bilactual press conference there with Mark Rutter,
41:50
Speaker 2: who is the Secretary General of the NATO Group, but
41:53
Speaker 2: also of course he was the former Prime Minister of
41:55
Speaker 2: the Netherlands and we had a lot to do with
41:57
Speaker 2: him here in Australia when MH seventeen went down ten
42:01
Speaker 2: or fifteen years ago now. And also they're obviously Donald
42:03
Speaker 2: Trump questions from journalists in the room in miss though
42:07
Speaker 2: when he got to some of them the New York Times, CNN,
42:10
Speaker 2: MSNBC and others. But a lot to get through there
42:13
Speaker 2: with the foreign editor of this Radian, Greg Sheridan, who timely, timely, timely.
42:18
Speaker 3: You join me here in the studio.
42:19
Speaker 8: It great to be with you.
42:20
Speaker 3: Quite a bit.
42:21
Speaker 2: I want to unpack out of that. Let's just start
42:23
Speaker 2: with the clarity we got there from the President with
42:26
Speaker 2: the admission that that leaked intelligence put out there principally
42:32
Speaker 2: by CNN and the New York Times, where they revealed
42:37
Speaker 2: that it was inconclusive whether these nuclear assets had been obliterated.
42:42
Speaker 2: They make the point they say it was low confidence information,
42:46
Speaker 2: it was preliminary. The President kept saying, it looks like
42:50
Speaker 2: they've been obliterated. That's not yet formally known. But he
42:54
Speaker 2: did say, think this was interesting. It will be up
42:57
Speaker 2: to Israel to conclude what they think.
43:01
Speaker 3: That everything's gone.
43:02
Speaker 15: Yeah, Peter, So, look, I thought that was a pretty
43:05
Speaker 15: good performance by Trump and Rubio and hegseth. I wish
43:08
Speaker 15: you wouldn't call journalists gun, but there you go.
43:10
Speaker 1: You know.
43:12
Speaker 15: So, I've read a lot of intelligence reports, not quite
43:15
Speaker 15: as many as you I suspect, but a lot of
43:17
Speaker 15: them follow a chain of suppositions. If we weren't entirely
43:23
Speaker 15: successful in completely staving in the whole cave, and if
43:27
Speaker 15: they took the uranium out first, and so on, and
43:30
Speaker 15: if you went through a whole lot of if worst cases,
43:33
Speaker 15: the worst case scenario might be that we've only set
43:36
Speaker 15: them back by six months or something like that. I
43:39
Speaker 15: thought Rubio made a very powerful point when he said,
43:41
Speaker 15: the leakers have characterized the intelligence, so they're not giving
43:45
Speaker 15: you a fair report of it. The intelligence was speculative
43:48
Speaker 15: and low confidence, and it had a range of possibilities
43:52
Speaker 15: from a few months to devastating. So I think the
43:56
Speaker 15: truth is we don't know for sure that a lot
43:58
Speaker 15: of things we don't know about this situation. If you
44:01
Speaker 15: get amount of criticism of Trump, maybe it shouldn't have
44:03
Speaker 15: been just a one night show. Maybe it should have
44:05
Speaker 15: gone on for a few days until he was absolutely
44:07
Speaker 15: sure the job was done. But I thought he answered
44:11
Speaker 15: pretty effectively that intelligence.
44:13
Speaker 2: Report there, you're right, So it always does look like
44:16
Speaker 2: this is a bit of backside covering until they have
44:19
Speaker 2: human intelligence and other sources on the ground, which is
44:22
Speaker 2: what he indicated, Israel will provide to conclusively demonstrate that
44:27
Speaker 2: what they hope has happened has in fact happened. But
44:30
Speaker 2: if you look at the volume of ordinances dropped over
44:33
Speaker 2: that twenty four hour period, you have to think they're
44:37
Speaker 2: close to getting the objective done. I guess the will
44:40
Speaker 2: will want this to be the wipeout that we all
44:43
Speaker 2: want to see of Iran's nuclear capability. We won't just
44:46
Speaker 2: want them wounded, we'll want this gone.
44:48
Speaker 15: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Peter. It's impossible to believe anything
44:54
Speaker 15: survived inside FODO. I mean, I say it's impossible. It's
44:57
Speaker 15: theoretically possible, but it's so unlo likely because they dropped
45:02
Speaker 15: repeated bunker buster bombs, one on top of another, and
45:08
Speaker 15: the International Atomic Energy Agency had himself said the centrifuges
45:13
Speaker 15: can't survive any significant disturbance. Well, if you know, if
45:18
Speaker 15: six bunker buster bombs on your head doesn't constitute sinevy disturbance,
45:22
Speaker 15: where I'm just marginally less sanguine is. I don't know
45:27
Speaker 15: if they got how much of the four hundred kilograms
45:30
Speaker 15: of enriched uranium out they got out in advance where
45:34
Speaker 15: they've dispersed it to, and I don't know how many
45:37
Speaker 15: other secret sites they have. The Israelis have excellent human intelligence.
45:42
Speaker 15: But you know, I covered the North Korean thing very
45:45
Speaker 15: very closely, and the North Koreans said they'd given up
45:49
Speaker 15: all their nuclear programs. They even blew up the Young
45:52
Speaker 15: Beyond reactor, but at the same time, deep inside a
45:56
Speaker 15: mountain they were going with a parallel program. And then
46:00
Speaker 15: it's tests and weapons. So I would be surprised if
46:04
Speaker 15: we ever know definitively that it's all gone. But it
46:07
Speaker 15: has sustained, in my view, massive damage.
46:10
Speaker 2: And look, look what happened with all the capability of
46:14
Speaker 2: Israeli intelligence and US intelligence. What we saw happen on
46:19
Speaker 2: October seven occurred under the noses of everybody. So I
46:22
Speaker 2: think there is we're right to be a bit not skeptical,
46:27
Speaker 2: but wanting to have concrete assurances given the gravity of
46:31
Speaker 2: what could happen with these weapons in the hands of
46:34
Speaker 2: the wrong people.
46:35
Speaker 3: I took some other notes I thought was interesting.
46:37
Speaker 2: So Rutter obviously looks like he said in a very
46:40
Speaker 2: private message to the president, you know, stroking the Trump ego,
46:44
Speaker 2: prior to his departure across over to the Netherlands. But
46:47
Speaker 2: he reiterated some of that language there today he made
46:50
Speaker 2: it clear that he was he said, a man of peace,
46:53
Speaker 2: he said that a number of times, but also a
46:55
Speaker 2: man of strength. And that's been obviously parleyed into the
46:58
Speaker 2: room today because they haven't an now answer to come.
47:00
Speaker 2: He said it will be unanimous. This is Mark Ruter
47:04
Speaker 2: that NATO members will go to five percent of GDP
47:06
Speaker 2: expenditure on defense. It's not just military capability though, it's
47:10
Speaker 2: a little bit. You know, there's an extra two percent
47:12
Speaker 2: or one and a half percent in there for capability
47:15
Speaker 2: in cyber and intelligence that will be for a vote.
47:18
Speaker 3: But that's where they're headed.
47:19
Speaker 2: That's an extraordinary move if that's what's occurred under this president.
47:23
Speaker 15: Yeah, it is, and it makes Australia look just as
47:26
Speaker 15: pathetic and pitiful as we deserve to look.
47:30
Speaker 3: So Ruter, you're pretty strong the other day.
47:32
Speaker 15: Yeah, well, I think you know, we're going through a
47:34
Speaker 15: national security crisis and neither side of politics in Australia
47:38
Speaker 15: seems to be aware of it. You know, they don't
47:40
Speaker 15: even read the newspapers apparently, least of all the government.
47:43
Speaker 15: So Ruter, first of all, his tone with Trump is
47:46
Speaker 15: very good. Why not flatter a guy who's an egomaniac.
47:49
Speaker 15: I mean, you want something out of Trump, someone who has.
47:52
Speaker 2: Done what no one the president has done. They've all
47:54
Speaker 2: talked about it. But if he has achieved what he's achieved,
47:56
Speaker 2: he deserves that credit.
47:58
Speaker 15: Well, yeah, I'm not quite so sure about that, because
48:01
Speaker 15: I think he's also been disgraceful on Ukraine. And I
48:04
Speaker 15: hate the way.
48:05
Speaker 2: Relation to Iran. I ran clips all the way back
48:08
Speaker 2: to Clinton the other night. They've all said the same promise,
48:11
Speaker 2: made the same promise in relation to Iran. But he
48:14
Speaker 2: looks like he's actually delivered.
48:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
48:16
Speaker 15: Absolutely, he deserves credit for Iran. I totally agree with
48:19
Speaker 15: you there. But Trump is good and bad. He's a
48:21
Speaker 15: mixed grill.
48:21
Speaker 3: You know, he gets leaders are greg. I tell you he's.
48:24
Speaker 15: More mixed than most. I mean, he even today is
48:27
Speaker 15: saying he's not sure about the Article five of NATO
48:30
Speaker 15: and so on, and saying all that, you know, hits
48:33
Speaker 15: at the credibility of the Alliance. Now you support the
48:36
Speaker 15: credibility alliance by taking military action in Iran. That shows
48:39
Speaker 15: you willing to take military actions. So that's great. So
48:42
Speaker 15: I think he's good and bad. At his best, he's
48:44
Speaker 15: better than most. At his worst, he's absolutely terrible. I
48:47
Speaker 15: think when he cut off aid to Ukraine and wouldn't
48:50
Speaker 15: give them intelligence to cite their weapons and so on.
48:54
Speaker 15: But in any event, I don't care. I don't care
48:58
Speaker 15: if Ruter is completely instance. See I don't care if
49:00
Speaker 15: he's never spoken to his wife in those terms.
49:02
Speaker 8: It doesn't matter.
49:03
Speaker 15: He's trying to get a result out of Trump. He's
49:06
Speaker 15: acting in NATO's interests, just as any Australian Prime minister
49:09
Speaker 15: with an IQ above room temperature would act in Australia's interests.
49:13
Speaker 15: You wouldn't go in and say, hey, mister President, I
49:15
Speaker 15: hate your language. You'd you know, look at Nakasoni, the
49:19
Speaker 15: Japanese Prime minister. You get two feet from the hole
49:22
Speaker 15: and he four put so that Trump could win the hole.
49:24
Speaker 3: You know.
49:25
Speaker 15: I mean, that's smart on Rud's part. But the NATO
49:29
Speaker 15: defense figures are very important. So Rud said, everybody now
49:33
Speaker 15: has got to two percent. Everybody Australia is still just
49:37
Speaker 15: at two percent. Most of them have committed to three
49:40
Speaker 15: point five percent, and most of them are way above
49:43
Speaker 15: two percent. Britain is already at two point five and
49:46
Speaker 15: committed to three. Germany has committed to three point five.
49:50
Speaker 15: Now five percent is slightly dodging course. It includes not
49:52
Speaker 15: only intelligence and cyber but also border control and defense infrastructure,
49:59
Speaker 15: but that doesn't matter. Three point five would be a
50:02
Speaker 15: fantastic revelation. Now Britain has committed to three point five
50:06
Speaker 15: by the early twenty thirties, we are committed to two
50:09
Speaker 15: point three by the Earth. And a further point on that,
50:12
Speaker 15: when you reach that defense expenditure year after year after year,
50:17
Speaker 15: you acquire a kit, so it has a cumulative effect.
50:22
Speaker 15: We've never got anywhere near that level, so we don't
50:25
Speaker 15: have any of that cumulative effect. Albo is lucky he
50:29
Speaker 15: didn't go to NATO because he would look at disgrace.
50:32
Speaker 15: At NATO, he would look the most.
50:34
Speaker 2: And that's why it didn't go in the end. I
50:36
Speaker 2: think some have said lack of confidence is actually getting
50:39
Speaker 2: meeting with Trump couldn't be snubbed twice. I'm sure that
50:42
Speaker 2: was a factor. But also I think given the tone
50:45
Speaker 2: of the debate now in Australia really is focused on
50:48
Speaker 2: this percentage of expenditure.
50:50
Speaker 3: In a way it has not been before.
50:51
Speaker 2: I think he would have been shamed in the room
50:53
Speaker 2: and it would have been significant embarrassment here at home.
50:56
Speaker 15: I think you're right, and you know, Albertazi, I mean,
50:59
Speaker 15: I'm really this sounds grotesque, but I like Albot. I
51:03
Speaker 15: think he's a nice bloke. You know, he's a Christian brothers,
51:05
Speaker 15: old boys, a rugby league fanatiiciant, you's.
51:07
Speaker 3: Your software shares and come on hard up. He's got
51:09
Speaker 3: a lot of the world is a dangerous place.
51:10
Speaker 15: He's got a lot of money in the bank with me.
51:12
Speaker 15: But his performance on national security has been utterly abysmal.
51:16
Speaker 15: He plainly has no interest in it. He can't go
51:19
Speaker 15: beyond his talking points, and he's not doing anything for it.
51:22
Speaker 3: In an interview with.
51:23
Speaker 15: Me before the election before last when he was opposition,
51:26
Speaker 15: later he said, we'll go beyond two percent. We'll go
51:29
Speaker 15: to whatever is necessary to defend Australia. No one in
51:32
Speaker 15: the world thinks that our pitiful two percent is adequate.
51:36
Speaker 15: And what conversation could he have with Trump? What positive
51:39
Speaker 15: thing can he say to Trump? He can say, Hey,
51:41
Speaker 15: I've got an economy where per capita income is falling. Hey,
51:46
Speaker 15: I've got an economy where productivity is falling. Hey, I've
51:49
Speaker 15: got the lowest defense budget of any developed country in
51:53
Speaker 15: the world. Hey, I've got an economy with the lowest
51:56
Speaker 15: manufacturing sector in the world and one of the least economy,
52:00
Speaker 15: you know, the least complex economies in the world. So
52:02
Speaker 15: I mean, he is lucky not to have a meeting
52:05
Speaker 15: with Trump because he'd have nothing to say to Trump.
52:07
Speaker 15: And the minute a journalist asked Trump, do you think
52:09
Speaker 15: the Australian defense budget is at it correct, he'd albanize,
52:13
Speaker 15: would Coppy pasting, and you know he'd probably have a
52:16
Speaker 15: nervous breakdown collapse.
52:18
Speaker 3: I think it's extraordinary.
52:19
Speaker 2: It's really critical on Monday night that we didn't get
52:21
Speaker 2: a heads up. I agree we were not likely to
52:23
Speaker 2: get one. I'm not critical that we didn't get a
52:25
Speaker 2: heads up. I understand the UK did because they had
52:28
Speaker 2: an asset in the region. But the idea that the
52:31
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, like we all were there on Sunday watching
52:33
Speaker 2: this unfold, and he says he was not worn so
52:36
Speaker 2: he was as blind to the bombing.
52:39
Speaker 3: Raid as Australians were.
52:40
Speaker 2: The fact that he did not have an NSC, that
52:43
Speaker 2: he didn't have a briefing, that he didn't bring in
52:45
Speaker 2: the CDF, that all waited to Monday, I just find
52:48
Speaker 2: extraordinary greek. I can't hazard that Kim Beasley, if he
52:53
Speaker 2: was there as Prime Minister, or Tony Abbott or John
52:56
Speaker 2: Hallward or Bob Hawk, Bill Shorten would have left it
53:00
Speaker 2: all day Sunday being blind to what was happening in
53:02
Speaker 2: the region for no other reason that there are tens
53:06
Speaker 2: of thousands of Australians there as well. And this is
53:09
Speaker 2: our biggest ally, This is the ally that we all
53:11
Speaker 2: fingers crossed, if the worst thing happened, would expect to
53:14
Speaker 2: come to our aid.
53:15
Speaker 3: Did that surprise you?
53:16
Speaker 8: Oh, look, you know.
53:19
Speaker 15: It shocked me, But in a sense it didn't surprise me,
53:22
Speaker 15: because I've.
53:22
Speaker 8: Come to that.
53:23
Speaker 3: I was shocked, but not surprised.
53:24
Speaker 8: I've had.
53:25
Speaker 15: I've come to have very very low expectations of this government.
53:28
Speaker 15: Not only is the government lazy about national security you
53:31
Speaker 15: know us work on a Sunday I heaven forfend, but
53:35
Speaker 15: also they so lack self confidence. They are a government
53:38
Speaker 15: without a moral or strategic compass. They had to wait
53:41
Speaker 15: and see what their new reference group does Western European
53:45
Speaker 15: social democratic governments, the Canadians, I mean our reference group
53:48
Speaker 15: used to be the United States. It would formerly have
53:51
Speaker 15: been that the United States would have been saying to us,
53:54
Speaker 15: can you get your European buddies to come along with
53:57
Speaker 15: this necessary national security action, which you understand because you're
54:01
Speaker 15: our tightest mates in the whole world. Alberanezi has no
54:05
Speaker 15: relationship with Trump now, we have never been further from
54:08
Speaker 15: the inside of Washington thinking. So my guess is I
54:11
Speaker 15: have no information on this that the Alberanzi government, if
54:14
Speaker 15: it did anything on Sunday, it spent Sunday seeing what
54:18
Speaker 15: France and Canada trying to.
54:20
Speaker 3: Read the room from everybody else.
54:21
Speaker 2: I think that was right because of the middle of
54:23
Speaker 2: the night for them, and I think they were waiting
54:24
Speaker 2: for someone else to take the lead and that we'd
54:26
Speaker 2: come in and follow.
54:28
Speaker 3: Just this is relevant.
54:31
Speaker 2: We've not had the meeting with Trump, but it's very
54:34
Speaker 2: likely the Prime Minister is going to go to Beijing
54:36
Speaker 2: in July, meaning we will have our fourth meeting with
54:40
Speaker 2: President g before we've had any meeting with President Trump. Now,
54:45
Speaker 2: the optics also of our prime minister going to Beijing,
54:49
Speaker 2: I think is uncomfortable given where things are in the world.
54:53
Speaker 2: I think it's good that we're have in the meeting.
54:55
Speaker 2: I do think dialogue with China is important, but it
54:58
Speaker 2: seems like we're preferencing China way.
55:00
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think that's right. So Alberanezi now is almost
55:03
Speaker 15: completely compliant with Chinese wishes. He never criticizes them in public.
55:08
Speaker 15: They send to use the China word. He doesn't even
55:11
Speaker 15: like to use a China word. They send ships down
55:13
Speaker 15: disturb aviation, have live firing drills between Australia and New Zealand.
55:18
Speaker 15: Our planes have to dodge their live fire drills. They
55:21
Speaker 15: humiliate us by circumnavigating Australia. Our pitiful navy can't even
55:25
Speaker 15: follow them because you know, it has to get the
55:27
Speaker 15: ANRAM or the RACV to help it every time it
55:30
Speaker 15: goes out of port. And he won't say boodh a
55:33
Speaker 15: goose about that. But he ran during the campaign as
55:36
Speaker 15: essentially an anti Trump candidate, so he's so scared of
55:39
Speaker 15: China he's even going to defenestrate the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.
55:43
Speaker 15: That's what China wants. He does everything China wants. The
55:46
Speaker 15: only exception is Richard Marles, when speaking in front of Americans,
55:50
Speaker 15: will say the China word. Because Albanese's essential contradiction is
55:55
Speaker 15: he still wants the American Alliance and all the benefits
55:57
Speaker 15: that brings to Australia. But it is a labor government
56:00
Speaker 15: led by the labor left, which is unique in the
56:05
Speaker 15: history of labor governments since well since Whitlam say, and
56:10
Speaker 15: it has no feeling for national security and no guts,
56:14
Speaker 15: and it's not going to devote any resources to national security.
56:17
Speaker 15: And it's scared of rebellion in its own base, and
56:19
Speaker 15: it's scared of China, and it thinks the one success
56:22
Speaker 15: it's got in foreign policy is resetting the relationship with China.
56:26
Speaker 15: So you have this weird thing where the Australian government
56:28
Speaker 15: is more compliant with Beijing's wishes than it is with
56:32
Speaker 15: Washington's wishes.
56:33
Speaker 3: So who's holding the whipan?
56:35
Speaker 2: Because Richard Miles doesn't look like he's got any sort
56:37
Speaker 2: of weight around the cabinet on national security and defense.
56:42
Speaker 2: I know it comes down to the envelope of spending.
56:44
Speaker 2: So I'm tipping here. The treasure is pretty powerful. But
56:47
Speaker 2: it seems like the intelligence of the operations down to
56:52
Speaker 2: Penny Wong that she's got the whippan.
56:54
Speaker 3: Is that fair?
56:56
Speaker 15: I think that probably is. I mean, I think I
56:57
Speaker 15: think Penny Wong is the most intelligent of them, and
57:00
Speaker 15: she's the most impressive at a human level. But I
57:03
Speaker 15: don't demonize Penny wrong. I don't think she's a sinister
57:06
Speaker 15: left wing person or anything. She's a person whose outlook
57:10
Speaker 15: is that of a labor left person. So it's not
57:12
Speaker 15: national secure, that's not the heart of her political being
57:16
Speaker 15: mediated by and shaped by defact departmenter Foreign Affairs and Trade.
57:20
Speaker 8: Now they're all about.
57:21
Speaker 2: Process to capture their ministers Whoremer, July Bishop, you know,
57:24
Speaker 2: free the brief and they operate inside the brief.
57:27
Speaker 15: And the only way say, you either have a very
57:29
Speaker 15: strong minded foreign minister like Alexander Downer who overrules them,
57:32
Speaker 15: or if they capture their minister, but the minister has
57:35
Speaker 15: a strong prime minister like Abbott had a very strong
57:38
Speaker 15: strategic outlook of his own, so did Howard. So defat
57:41
Speaker 15: has to fall in behind that. But we've had a
57:44
Speaker 15: series of weak defense ministers for a long time. I
57:47
Speaker 15: think the last time we had a strong defense minister
57:50
Speaker 15: was you know, maybe Brendan Nelson or Robert Hill or somebody.
57:53
Speaker 15: And so defense hasn't given leadership. Alberanezi cares less about
57:58
Speaker 15: national security than any prime minister I've seen since GoF Whitlam,
58:02
Speaker 15: So you get no national leadership there. Penny Wong, she's
58:06
Speaker 15: done good work in the South Pacific, but her sort
58:09
Speaker 15: of you know, she's motivated by you know, paid maternity
58:14
Speaker 15: leave and you know, can we get inclusive sports in
58:17
Speaker 15: the South Pacific and say, well, she's just not thinking
58:19
Speaker 15: about any of this stuff. And Richard Marles is a
58:22
Speaker 15: chocolate soldier is just melted in the sun, you know.
58:24
Speaker 15: So you've got basically a vacuum, and the bureaucracy is
58:28
Speaker 15: imposing itself on the government. The government has in my view,
58:32
Speaker 15: no strategic map in its head and simply takes the
58:38
Speaker 15: path of least resistance at all points and doesn't want
58:41
Speaker 15: to spend any more money on defense, is going to
58:43
Speaker 15: acquire nuclear submarines and not spend an extra dollar except
58:46
Speaker 15: for these pathetic incremental increases that it's already budgeted for,
58:50
Speaker 15: most of which happened in the next term of government.
58:53
Speaker 15: So you get two full terms of Albanesi government without
58:55
Speaker 15: substantial increase in defense expenditure at a time when the
58:59
Speaker 15: whole world can see the world is in flames, you know,
59:02
Speaker 15: the world we've known is disappearing in front of our
59:04
Speaker 15: eyes and our government.
59:06
Speaker 2: And he's got a timetable everyone talks about twenty twenty seven,
59:09
Speaker 2: but certainly in his own lifetime to deal with what
59:12
Speaker 2: he regards as the Taiwan issue.
59:14
Speaker 15: Absolutely and well, and I think the only thing I'd
59:18
Speaker 15: say that is sinister. About the whole thing is this.
59:20
Speaker 15: Quite a few people at the heart of our defense
59:23
Speaker 15: establishment don't want us to have a defense capability because
59:28
Speaker 15: they don't ever want an Australian government to make a
59:30
Speaker 15: decision to use force them. Now that's incredibly dangerous because
59:35
Speaker 15: if we ever have to look out for ourselves, they
59:37
Speaker 15: don't want us to have a defense capacity, so that
59:39
Speaker 15: we can't do anything to help the Americans. I remember
59:42
Speaker 15: coalition governments wanting to deploy tanks in Afghanistan, and defense
59:45
Speaker 15: always had an excuse why you could deploy the tanks
59:48
Speaker 15: everywhere except in battle. But the danger is if the
59:53
Speaker 15: Americans are ever you lose interest in defending us, we
59:56
Speaker 15: have nothing to defend ourselves with. And if the Chinese
59:59
Speaker 15: go for time I want, there's no substantial contribution we
1:00:02
Speaker 15: can make to the matter one way or the other
1:00:04
Speaker 15: which won't stop us from being attacked because of you know,
1:00:07
Speaker 15: we're allies of America, but there's nothing we can do
1:00:10
Speaker 15: about it.
1:00:10
Speaker 2: Olivia there, you're very generous if your time grief, but
1:00:12
Speaker 2: beautiful timing to come off the.
1:00:14
Speaker 3: Back of that event there in Nata. Thanks, thank you
1:00:16
Speaker 3: for your company.
1:00:17
Speaker 2: You can see the show went to hell and a handcut,
1:00:19
Speaker 2: but that's good because we needed to get you across
1:00:21
Speaker 2: everything out of the Netherlands tonight.
1:00:24
Speaker 3: That's it for me. Up next, Steve Price,