Latest / The Midlife Momma Podcast - Empty nest mom, Parenting adult children, Midlife transition, Christian mom / 243. How to Support Your Anxious or Depressed Adult Child with Authors Hope Blanton & Christine Gordon

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243. How to Support Your Anxious or Depressed Adult Child with Authors Hope Blanton & Christine Gordon · The Midlife Momma Podcast - Empty nest mom, Parenting adult children, Midlife transition, Christian mom

• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Christian parenting.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Midlife Mama podcast, the place for faith, friendship, and real talk for emptiness moms.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host Pamela Incomen and I'm so glad you tuned in today.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: There are a few things harder for a mom than watching her young adult child struggle with anxiety or depression.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: You want to help, but when your child is grown, you can't step in and fix what hurts.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: in the way that you once could.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Today, I'm talking with Hulk Blanton and Chris Gordon.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Authors of help for the anxious and depressed, about how we can support our adult children with compassion and wisdom without rescuing or taking responsibility for their emotional well-being.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hulk is a licensed clinical social worker, and Christine is a practical theologian and Bible teacher.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about what to say, what not to say, when to encourage professional help, and how the man needs our own fear when someone we love is struggling.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you've been wondering how to love your adult child well through anxiety or depression, this conversation is for you.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome, open Chris.
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for having us.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would love it if you could tell my listeners the heart behind writing this book.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the heart is just that the desire to comfort and that people might know we both have struggled with anxiety and depression.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the depression, hopes the anxiety for years.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we have been so comforted by the Lord through other people, through counseling, all kinds of things that we write about this book.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we would love for people to know that there are ways that he will help.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's available to you.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to add any info?
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we feel like we condensed 20 to 30 years of conversations of experiences for ourselves of me working as a therapist, Chris, a studying theology.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: We put it all in one place in these 10 chapters.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And not only that a lot of times these kind of books,
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: focus so much on the problem.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is nine of the 10 chapters, but our book is like 50 50 half is about what's going on and half is about practical spiritual clinical helps to really push against this issue in people's lives and also there's a whole chapter on how to help people that you love so it and we really try to balance all of that because we feel like the Lord has given a lot of ways to help in this area and so we've experienced that and so we've just put it all in there.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's jump in.
• 2:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when an adult child is struggling with anxiety or depression, what do you wish moms understood about what's actually happening inside of them?
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the first thing I wish I would have known.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And feel like I'd know better now is that it's not necessarily just sin related and that what I was first understanding years ago and had a really hard time understanding as I tried to work at my own theology of mental health through seminary and all that is that.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're so layered and we're nuanced as people.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so if we can't ever just look for one root or one reason, so that when I see the anxiety of my children, a dull or smaller, it's not like there's just one reason that we can always count on or point to, but that we have to be more curious about what are those roots?
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where's this coming from?
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that does a couple things, one that slows us down.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: to not just respond so quickly and say what to do, but it also gives us compassion because that we realize, oh, this isn't necessarily just a fallen heart issue, this could also be their physiology, this could also be history, things that have happened in the past, this could be trauma, this, it's, it's multi-faceted.
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's good.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of times as parents whenever a kid struggles with anything are go to responses, I, this is my fault.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did something to cause this and turning down that voice in your head and just really listening to what they're experiencing instead of being like, oh no, I don't want them to experience anxiety and depression because that means I've done something bad as a parent or I failed in somehow.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really important to that you can like Chris said, actually listen to what's actually going on with them and be able to figure out what's really happening.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I love this because as a mom's, we just really sometimes make it about ourselves.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is not what's needed in this case, right?
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's so hard.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard to not make it about yourself because you have spent all these years first keeping this little person alive.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: and then guiding them and driving them around and buying them eggs and all the things so that it's really hard to get that space between you and them until it then be responsible for them as they get to this age where that's really what should be happening.
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we hope that I regularly talk about how hard it is to keep not in unhealthy distance.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: but a human distance from our children and not and let them be themselves and not take it all on and not be so enmeshed that we can't see that other than as an extension of ourselves.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's really hard as a mom.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or she just got a big nod.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the old word.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really hard, and it takes practice.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: It takes so much practice and intentionality.
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: So here's where I think moms struggle a lot.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're wired to help.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: So what does healthy support look like when your adult child is anxious or depressed?
• 5:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when does helping start to become a rescuing?
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's a healthy way to support, literally, support your anxious or depressed child?
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you'd start with finding out, letting them describe to you what's going on for them, how that feels to them in their body, how that's affecting their day, what is it doing to their sleep, just ask some baseline questions, and then you ask them,
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do they want help with that?
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do they want you to enter in and help with that?
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So often as moms, we don't ask that question.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: We just say, oh, I'm going to help with that.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it post, so they may not?
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or they might be like, I'm okay with it.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm managing it fine.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want you to put me in counseling or give me a name of a doctor or, you know what I'm saying?
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so really, we need to listen to ask good questions about, let's see where this is coming out in your day-to-day and then also do you want help.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then if you do,
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: like walking with them in that as far as, okay, what kills helpful to you?
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to talk to a church leader?
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Church that we feel like understands this.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to talk to a counselor or therapist?
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can help you find one that we feel good about or do you want to meet with a doctor?
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like all of those things and letting them have agency and choice as to which things they want.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Certain kids of mine have wanted me to set up all those things.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Other kids of mine have been like, you know what I don't want this, but I want this.
• 7:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: and they're the ones that are experiencing it.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we have to let them have that agency to choose, which is hard in all areas, but it's really hard with anxiety depression because it makes us anxious in nervous.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: True.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: It makes us nervous.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so what I hear you saying is you're saying
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you want me to help you get help or would you prefer, but I love what you said about just this idea of curiosity actually sitting down with your child to say, could you explain it to me?
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Could you tell me what it feels like because I think it's really difficult for a mom who has never been anxious or depressed to support her child well when she doesn't understand the experience.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then even to go on with what Hope said, every saloon being with my daughter, it's like they get in this time where you have been scheduling all the doctors went, all the thing Hope just talked about has been your responsibility.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So then as you back away from that,
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've even, for myself, have shut to ask her questions like, okay, so you said you might want to see the doctor.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want me to schedule that?
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Would you like to schedule that?
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to go by yourself?
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Would you rather I was with you?
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because in my mind, I'm like, I'm going with you.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm scheduling.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm asking all the questions.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: In some times, she'll surprise me when she'll say, no, I'm going to have so-and-so go with me.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, well, okay, and I just have to shut my mouth.
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing that'll sometimes happen is they will say, yes, I want the hope.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You get them the phone number, the contact, whatever, tone exactly how this could happen.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you don't hear anything for like days or weeks.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you realize this hasn't happened.
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're still seeing the struggle in their lives.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And everything inside you wants to go, oh, it's okay.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just call for you.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: but to slow down and say, hey, I see you haven't done this.
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think you still need it?
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then if they don't say to you, just let it go.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, hope I love this term that you use.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know that all moms are familiar with it.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's in the therapist world.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this idea of agency, could would you just mind describing that quickly?
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I don't know that I'll define it well, but for what I gather, agency is basically letting someone else, what we call in social work, has self-determination to choose.
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't make choices for them.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: We see them as separate from us, their own little person, their own little capsule, and we're our own little capsule, we're separate, and we can help each other, but they have their own choices or own, and they're accountable for that, right?
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not standing before God on behalf of our children.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are in prayer, but we're all individual here.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so especially as a transition to that young adult, we go from that like work, Chris said, where I'm really holding your hand.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're 16, I have to be at that appointment.
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have to be at that.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas when you're 19 or 25 or those things are different to youth,
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: the agency to let to be like your choices or your choices and mine or mine.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not going to come in and try to control or dictate your choices and not just through.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: my words, but also through passive aggressiveness or all the things that we do that I do, even as a therapist.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm amazed at some of the stuff that comes out of my mouth.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, well, so I just think that its agency is really just seeing them as separate as their own person with their own ability to make decisions and that they are responsible for those and that we are not responsible for them and then more than they are.
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, agency is about seeing your adult child as a separate entity from you.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they are responsible for their own choices.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you just meditate on that today, you're talking to that your core, I think it will provide a little relief.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't have this anxiety around when our kids are struggling with anxiety or depression.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, that's really good.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, let's talk about some of the things that well-meaning moms say,
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: can unintentionally make an anxious or the pressed adult child feel worse.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are some things she shouldn't say?
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the the quickest ones is when you
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: what it when you voice the fear that's in your head.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when I 21-year-old son says, yeah, I haven't had time to apply for those jobs yet.
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I immediately think, okay, the cutoff is that October 1st, and if you don't get a job next summer, I don't know what's going to happen.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: and you're not going to have money to pay for your master's degree.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going ahead in a way that's not helpful.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And none of that will help him if I say it out loud.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right?
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: What I want to do is motivate him, but that's not what it'll do in depending on your kid.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It might just paralyze them.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or it might increase their anxiety.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's one of the things is we put our anxiety like, hope talked about.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We take it all out and we just dump it on them.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's not helpful.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's going to say, for sure, going that direction of putting, oh gosh, going on high alert.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, you're depressed there.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, are you suicidal?
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you all that we go there, which we can talk about a minute, but we go, or we did the opposite or we minimize and we're like, you're going to be, it's going to be fine.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone worries or.
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: you sad what one day who cares are we just kind of because and we do it for the same reason Chris was saying we were anxious so we put that on them were anxious about them being depressed her anxious and so then we try to minimize it so that they won't be so it's kind of if I can tell you're not then you won't be and then whatever thing will go back to being fine and it's both of those are about us again like he's a panel that's like we make it about us again yes
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so those are a couple things not to say, what is the most helpful thing that a mom could say when her child comes to her and says, I'm, I haven't show her in for three days and have you the bed.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: What could she say?
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like from listening to Hope for the last 13 years of just observing her as a therapist and a mom, I would say, tell me more about that.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me more about that.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of like she said, trying to shut it down or immediately manage the whole situation to keep to state curious and ask for more.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you really, you really are dealing with their reality instead of what you've just
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because if you know, we're concocting a lot of things in our mind.
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Probably all the thing.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we actually just asked them.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell me more about that.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: What does that feel like for you?
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: How is that lie?
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and ask and also saying to them, I'm so sorry that sounds really hard.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes it, for some people, for some kids, they'll be like, how good she believes me.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: More for some, they'll be like, oh, I can't realize it was that hard.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what it is hard.
• 14:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't gone the class in three days, or whatever it is.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's definitely tell me more, and then evaluating, that sounds really hard, and I'm so sorry, which Chris, we the queen of that, and has definitely taught me how to validate.
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is why her brain was my brain equals a whole brain.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: But, honestly, on the mid-life level podcast, we talk about validation and empathy all the time, because, oh, my gosh, it's the most powerful thing we can do for our grown kids.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we take, we take our eggs to the Lord, right?
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's our job.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I always say that validation in my office I say to people validation is a shortcut.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: In a way, it's like it shortcuts to where it's like they feel heard and seen into the conversation gets more onto the real level versus when you push back or disagree or don't validate, then you spend 20 minutes just biting about whether who's right and wrong and you've wasted all this time.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's just shortcut that out and go,
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Straight to validating was he will say I don't what if I don't think that's what if your kid comes to you and says I'm feeling this and this and you're thinking of your head Yeah, guess what so did I times 10 and college when I was paying for my own what this.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: What we do is parents But it's instead thinking for them in this moment This is hard and I can validate that without without without saying what I had was harder or different without judging it Yeah, that's so good
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, check this out.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oops, did I just say that?
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've all been there one tiny comment and suddenly you're a adult child pose away or shuts down.
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: As moms, we mean well, but some phrases do more harm than good.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I created a free guide just for you.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: 10 things not to say to your adult child, and five ways to stop yourself from saying them.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's packed with practical wisdom to help you speak with love, not regret.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Grab your copy today at the link in the show notes and start buildingconnection.conflict.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, let's get back to our conversation.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: How can a mom become a safe person for her adult child to talk to without interrogating them, giving advice, or immediately trying to solve the problem?
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what we want to do.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're like, jumping out of fix this.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: How can she become safe?
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think what I'm learning, I feel like I don't necessarily have all the great answers, but what I am learning with my own children and as a result of thinking with hope about these things for so long is that you have to help figure out what they're asking for each time I try to think of it like this.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: If a friend comes to my house and is pouring out her heart about something, I part of what I'm thinking is what does she need from me right now?
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: because I don't necessarily feel responsible for her, right?
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because she's my friend.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel pretty free to be like, does she need encouragement?
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does she just need me to listen and not say anything?
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does she need advice?
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does she need me to help her figure out where to buy this thing, that she needs for whatever?
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does she need me to go to the doctor's appointment with her?
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel pretty free to say to her something like, wow, like all the things we just talked about, wow, that's really hard.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: and then go, what would feel good right now for me to do?
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Would it feel good if I just listen, I don't say anything, would it feel good if I came up with some options for you?
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Would it feel good if I to ask her, what is your heart and your soul need right now in this moment for me?
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the more I do that with my kids, the more I realize they, they, I can almost see sometimes in their eyes that they're like, oh, she's not going to take over.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually in charge in this moment, and I think that feels freeing for them.
• 17:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's beautiful.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: What would feel good for you right now?
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mama, write that one down.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great question to ask.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: It just makes me get a little teary, honestly.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's the grace that I could use with my five kids, so I love it.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I love how Chris gave options.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, do you want advice?
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to hug?
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you just want me to listen?
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are you wanting?
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the real rub, the trick in that moment, though, becomes that we have to honor what they say.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's hard because they might say, I just want you to listen.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they tell you all this terrible stuff and you're like, oh, wait, can I go back on that?
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can I just sing one thing?
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think too much honoring what they asked for originally and doing that I think over time makes them feel like it's safe to come.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's so good.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: You touched on this a little bit earlier, but let's touch on how a mom can manage her own fear and anxiety in these moments when her child is literally really depressed or really anxious.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: How can she handle that well in the moment?
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the first things is before even saying anything is doing like a gut check.
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I have had to do over and over is asking myself before I say, what about this or can we do this, I have to think to myself, okay, is this coming out of what's most helpful for him right now?
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: to manage his anxiety or is this coming out of what I need because I can't handle what he's telling me right now.
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think before you offer anything else, you kind of have to ask yourself,
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: back in and ask, okay, what's happening on the inside of me?
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm hearing this from him.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for me, I, it is almost always this, oh, my gosh, I want to fix it.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can I get in my car right now?
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is too hard to hear from him.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want him to suffer like this.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's all, so I think the first thing is slowing down and realizing that's what's happening for you.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because until then, you're shooting blanks and like shooting all over the place.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so check it out yourself.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's really good.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Especially if sometimes we know we're going to see them or we're going to talk on the phone.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So really before we engage, we could say, okay, just let me check in for a moment.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Am I okay?
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Am I ready to support my child?
• 20:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not get all riled up myself.
• 20:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: There is a level of self awareness and self control.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 20:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, right now I'm intentional about supporting my child and I can freak out after we hang up or absolutely and we get to pour that all out to the Lord.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's why he's just so kind and tender.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not asking us to feel it.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's asking us just to be intentional in those moments because they're so impactful.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and if you have, I think it's so helpful to have
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, just people who you trust, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with one of my children, and I am just holding my tongue and just listening and then immediately after they walk it out of the house or they hang up, I'm on the phone with hope.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is what just happened.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Give me a talk.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm down.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's not their responsibility.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's mine.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I need people that help me.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes before, sometimes it's I'm so worked out.
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what to say the Lord.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll just shake before him.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'll call hope and she'll kind of talk me down.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I can say the Lord.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hope.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for walking me through that.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then poured out.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think part of it is that like we're humans.
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's okay to need to say all the things.
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't say them to your child.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think in the moment too, everything at Chris said, but sometimes what I do and I even do this sometimes and I'm counseling.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: When people tell us really hard things that work us up, sometimes end by mind, I'll visualize, having a conversation with Jesus where I'm like, do you hear what?
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you hear you?
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And be like, nothing.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need help.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need help.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so instantly I feel him like, of course he heard it.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Course he's here.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's sovereign.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's here.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's present.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so then I feel like, okay, he's here.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's hearing this.
• 22:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking to him.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm listening.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so my face might be like,
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And inside I'm like, but my kid doesn't know that, right?
• 22:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm leaning in and having a conversation with Jesus in my head.
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm just, and so, usually that's kind of what I do to be like, okay, it's kind of like those TV shows where they have a camera man.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And people always look at the camera like, do you?
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's usually what I do.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I look and I'm like, Lord, you heard that, right?
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is happening right now.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of hell.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It helps somebody, it helps my body calm down.
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for me to not do what Chris was describing, where like the reactive and just kind of, okay, exactly.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, yes, we leave those conversations that we instantly are on the phone with each other.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need some help.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Pray for this kid.
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Pray for me as I try to love this kid because I know my temptation here
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: be anxious and worried.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's wrap it up with this one question.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: What would you say to a mom listening today who is deeply worried about her adult child and wondering am I doing enough?
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: hope you want to answer that for sure.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would say it really depends on what they're struggling with, but we didn't talk about suicide here, but if we have a kid who is saying that they're having suicidal thoughts or anything like that, you really want to ask and know that and then you can be mindful of what's helpful to, and that's when you really need a professional to get in there and help you and guide you.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think as far as if they're really worried first, trust the Lord, depression and anxiety is a type of suffering, just like all of our suffering is in that he's present with them.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's near to them and he's going to, he's not going to waste this suffering in their life.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so really going to him with all your worry and all your worst case scenarios and reminding yourself of what's real and really just being present in that.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: with the Lord when you're worried.
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And just remember that God is going to enter in.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to enter into this with your kid, just like he did all the other things.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't some thing that's oh gosh, he'll never enter into this one, but he did to that.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: When they were in fifth grade and they were being bullied, he helped with that, but he's not going to help with their depression when they're 25.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not true.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, just reminding yourself that the Lord wants to help He's near He will help and for you as a parent to move towards the situation instead of putting your head in the sand and ignoring it.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's good.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would say the other thing too is hope has explained to me several times that in client therapists relationships, the thing that they have found over and over when they've done studies is what's most helpful and most important is that relationship, not necessarily the modality they use or the place that they meet or set up by the room or any of those things.
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think are you doing enough the fact that you're asking that question and that you are attempting to be a safe nonjudgmental place for your child?
• 25:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what they need from you.
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't necessarily need you to solve all their problems or intervene and fix the things.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: They need to know your safe and your own their side, no matter what.
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I would say, yeah, yeah, you're doing enough if you're doing that.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say thank you so much for joining today.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hope and Chris, can you tell my listeners where they can find your book and your work online?
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so they can find our book at hope for the anxious and depressed.com for the anxiety depression book.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we also have a Bible study ministry and that is atosfeetstudies.com.
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, we will leave those links in the show notes.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mama, you may not be able to take away your child's anxiety or depression, but you can be a steady, compassionate presence in their life.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can listen without fixing.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Encouraging them toward what they need and learn to manage your own fear, so you're not caring.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: what belongs to them.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here's a coaching tip of the week.
• 26:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: In each episode, I will give you one actionable step to improve your life.
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Remember, you can't change everything, but you can take one step to be better.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: This week, I want you to, you're adult child.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: What is it?
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: You need for me right now.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And just watch their eyes light up.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be like, what?
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have her done this
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: You want your kids to know that you're there for them, you're not there to fix, you're there to support them and what they need most.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when you feel helpless, I want you to remember that your child is never beyond the reach of God.
• 27:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Keep loving them, keep praying, and keep entrusting them to his capable hands.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to have all the answers to love you, child and well.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Grace and peace, Mama.
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've got this and God's got you.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for spending time with me on the Midlife Mama Podcast.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: My hope is that you leave each episode feeling encouraged, grounded, and clearer.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Clearer about what you're feeling, what God may be stirring in you, and how to move forward in the season of the empty nest.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Through these conversations, I'm not just sharing stories, I'm coaching you, helping you name what's happening beneath the service, challenging the thoughts that keep you stuck and take intentional steps toward peace and confidence as a midlife mom.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're ready to go deeper and want personalized coaching support, I invite you to apply for coaching.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Coaching is a focused one-on-one space where we work together to gain clarity and
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: process emotions and discern what God is calling you to in this next chapter.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll find the application linked in the show notes and let's stay connected.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can find me on Instagram at P-Hingelman, that's P-H-E-N-K-E-L-M-A-N, or on Facebook at Pamela Hingelman, Emptinessed Coach.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to figure out the season alone mama.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Support and direction are possible, and I'm here when you're ready.