Latest / Let's Watch It Again : Film Reviews & Retrospectives / Def By Temptation (1990) - Halloween Special! with Lea Anderson

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Def By Temptation (1990) - Halloween Special! with Lea Anderson · Let's Watch It Again : Film Reviews & Retrospectives

• Rob Lee: Yo yo yo, Rob Lee here, um back with my movie review movie retrospective podcast, Let's Watch It Again. And today, joining me is a poet turned genre expert, scholar, critic, and lifelong monster kid approaching monster theory from a black feminist perspective. I have returning guest and truth in this art alumni, Leah Anderson back on Let's Watch It Again. And we're covering Def by Temptation. Cue the trailer. Lea Anderson: His destiny had been foretold. Its fate had been forewarned. He did not know that something so sweet could be so evil. Now the fate of mankind hangs in the balance as Kadeem Hardison, TV's Dwayne Wayne. def by temptation: This honey, I'm in the night. was bad. Bad. Superman. Lea Anderson: And Bill Nunn from Do the Right Thing get busy in the first contemporary horror thriller of its kind. James Bond the third, death by temptation. She's every man's dream and your worst nightmare. She lives with men, and you never see them again. def by temptation: When Look, now when she drinks that holy water, she's gonna start slobbering and farting and gagging. Speaker 4: I'm on a mission, everybody can't train my style. So if we can't give it down, they have the trick. Wow, I don't mean to be true. No more hot. The peace. Lea Anderson: Death by Temptation, a new movie from Trauma. With new music by Ashford and Simpson, Melbourne, Najee, and Freddie Jackson. Rob Lee: Welcome back to Let's Watch It Again. Leah Anderson, welcome back. Lea Anderson: Hi, thanks so much for having me. Rob Lee: Thank you for coming back to you. It's it's always a pleasure. It's always a win, I'll say for me to have you on here. And you know, one, you know, as you know, you you you have all of the hair, so I'll give you that. But you know, you have the glasses, so I'm always appreciative of my fellow bespectacled individuals. So thank you for being on here. Lea Anderson: The pleasure is all mine, and maybe say goodbye to the hair. I'm considering shopping it off. Nah, don't make that face. We'll see. We'll see. Rob Lee: I mean, regardless, it's gonna look cool because you're one of the coolest people I know. And um, so looking forward to breaking down this movie a little bit. And I was, you know, thinking about it earlier. Um when I reached, I was like, hey, what about this movie or this movie? And we landed on this one. So we're gonna talk about um death by temptation. So you know, sort of the intro salvo before I go into with the description of the film is what was your relationship with this film? Because I've never seen it up until recently. I've seen like posters of it, I seen references to it, but never watched the movie. Lea Anderson: Yeah, so this was one that I didn't find out about until I was like looking into researching black horror specifically. Um they talk about it in I mean, it's in Dr. Robin Coleman's book, Horror Noir, which is the book that the Shudder docuseries is based on. Yes. Um, so it also features in the docuseries. But yeah, it's definitely kind of this under scene gem of the it's it's it's set in 1990. I think it came out in 1991. So it's like right in that weird kind of in-between space where culturally it still feels like the 80s, but it's right at the turn of the early 90s where there was this real boom after um uh an ebbing of the tide of interest and in anything black people do that happens that happened in horror movies in the 80s. Rob Lee: That's right. And that you definitely get that vibe off of it. And I like that you you touched on the the the shutter dock because that's the genesis of how I became aware of you. Lea Anderson: So that's that's crazy because that was like that definitely came out. That was before I was I was really out there. So um I don't know, maybe I achieved something there. Rob Lee: I all I know is this. I brag about it's like yo, I shot my shot, and then I was able to have now multiple time guest and dare say friend on this pod. So it's pretty tight. Um so yeah, you know, and watching watching the film and doing some of the research on it. Like I watched a like one of these like online pieces about it, and then I watched the movie, and I was like, let me backdoor into some of these holes. Um, so I'll give the description, and then I want you to want you to keep me honest here with this description of there, whether there's anything you want to add, or you're like, I don't know if that's quite it. So Death by Temptation is an early 90s American uh black horror film written, produced, and directed by James Bond the Third, who also stars in the film alongside Cynthia Bond, no relations, uh, Kadeem Hardison, uh, Samuel Jackson, and Bill Nunn is set in New York City, and the film's plot uh follows a succubus Bond, who preys on black men drawing the attention of a minister in training named Joel, played by Bond the Third. Uh Joel's childhood friend Kay, played by Kadeem Hardison, and police officer um they didn't give him his name, but it's Dougie, played by Bill Nunn. What what would you add or maybe take out of that description? Or is it accurate? Lea Anderson: Um, it's pretty accurate in terms of plot. There's a lot of other stuff that's happening that if you're a fan of black horror, if you're a fan of black vampires, if you're interested in black vampires, then this is definitely definitely a really interesting um and very black, very culturally black approach to these monsters and these stories. Rob Lee: Yes, yes, that and we'll definitely be talking about that a bit more as we go along. Um want to go to through a few more of these sort of release notes and things of that nature. Uh so let's see. Release notes. It was um released in the theaters, and I kinda look at what was around what was in the atmosphere during the time this film came out. So movies that were in the theater include Pretty Woman, uh Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, uh, the original 1990 joint, uh Tales from the Dark Side, the movie, and the hunt for Red October, all of that was in that sort of gravity and stratosphere at the time. Lea Anderson: Yeah, going up against pretty woman. I I don't I don't envy. Not I don't envy the person attempting to do that. Um yeah, I'm I'm not sure I'm interested in the distribution story around this movie because um that's that's historically been kind of the uh where the sinkhole happens for a lot of black film is uh like like it can win awards, but uh but they won't get picked up for distribution. Um there's there's certain black exploitation films uh like Abbey from 1973, where there's still not like a really decent print of it available. There's no like restored version of the film. Um so it's always kind of a rough viewing experience, and because Death by Temptation was like James Bond the Third's big one, like he really put everything into this, wrote it, directed it, produced it. Um it's dedicated to the memory of both his father and his grandfather. So there's definitely and you see this thematically in the movie. Um there's definitely these themes of legacy and inheritance and what we owe those who came before us and what we owe those who come after. Rob Lee: 100% and you know, teasing that I like it. So this is uh released via trauma and was in the top 20 endurance release date, and as we were touching on, it's like release date top 20 is you want to be in a top three, you don't want to be in the top, and it was limited release. Um I looked this up because uh there's some controversy around sort of the cover of the the film, the poster, if you will. Oh yeah, yeah. Um so limited release. Kadeem Hardison was in the middle of a different world, that's like season three, I think of a different world, and he had peered in a few movies leading up to it, including school days and I'm gonna get you sucker, which is one of my one of my favorites. Uh, and he's on the cover, and Sam Jackson's on a cover, and I literally counted this for his you know, spoilers, but it's his sort of um his first sequence in the movie. I was just like, You in this for 45 seconds, why are you gonna cover? So that's a thing, you know. And um We gotta sell it, you know, we gotta sell it. And there's a whole other back side of things that I'm thinking of in watching this this film. Um, so I like to get a uh consensus on like what the film is rated, how it's treated. That doesn't matter as much, but sort of is there disconnect with the audience, especially with something that has sort of maybe a cult sort of legacy and a cult following. Um, I try to look in different places to get a semblance of like, all right, how was this received? So IMDB gave it a 5.3 out of 10, Rotten Tomatoes, 78%, and always look around in letterboxed. I like letterboxed because my film nerd friends are there, and I like to get my um I let I guess some of my favorite ones one-line reviews of films from there. I do not have one for this, but uh letterbox a 3.2 out of five. So that's uh not low. Yeah. It's not a bad movie. Speaker 4: It's definitely like um it's much what I hadn't watched it in a while before I went back and revisited it for when when we were decided when we decided we were gonna we were gonna do Death by Temptation. Sure. And it's a much tighter film than I remember it being. Lea Anderson: There's definitely moments where like it could have used a bit of editing, yes, some fine-tuning. Rob Lee: Well, like let me let me tighten this up a little bit. A little bit. Lea Anderson: So but in terms of its script, in terms of its preoccupations, and in terms of like the narrative traditions that it's operating within, it's pretty tight. Yeah. Um yeah, so I definitely see how uh different audiences are gonna get different things from this movie, and that's part of what makes it really good, and it's part of why why it's maybe dare I say more popular now than it was back then or throughout the 90s. Rob Lee: So there was um, and I and I have some like uh different details and things of just through research from the the different sources that are out there, but uh this is a May 11th release. Um, and this is where it gets a little odd. Um, like for 1990s, I don't know what that in today today's dollars is, but for this to be a 1990, 1991 or have you filmed because it was shot in four weeks. I've re I've read, which is insanity. So literally, it's like uh, you know, five million dollar budget. So I not a small amount of money, no, especially like you know, sort of the circumstances like this is kind of your first this is your film debut, and um, at least that's that's what I recall reading, and it you can see at times it's like for the love of the game, because there are some people who just kind of pop up and there's like, oh, this is a yeah, Sam Jackson, or oh, this is half of the cast that are like Spike Lee's homeboys or have you, like more houses here, you know. And it so the movie made 2.2 million. Um, so off of that, so like half, but it has sort of a I think some of the marketing was weird. Um, I know that comes up later, like DEF for deaf is a strange choice. Yep. And I was just like, it's hip hop, right? Like I was like, is a little cool J in this movie? Like, I was literally that's why it took me so long to see it. I was like, what's happening? Lea Anderson: Yeah, it's definitely definitely some some strange choices around it. It's one you kind of I I feel like you should definitely just kind of like dive in, not knowing much of the lore. Um because I think they the relationships with like Sam Jackson, because James Bond III was an actor before before he made this. So I think he developed um a lot of these relationships on earlier sets, and everyone, it seems like everyone kind of like showed up for him. Ernest Dickerson is also is uh uh also DP'd it and it looks beautiful. Yes, there's like sequences that I'm just like this is this is this is lit. I'm eating this up, I'm enjoying this despite myself, because I don't always want to sometimes, sometimes it pisses me off. But it's it's a it's a really pretty film for for the time and the the effects are really um satisfying as well. Rob Lee: So interestingly, there you know, it's just different questions that kind of pop up as to like what is the story behind the story, because this, you know, like James Bond the third, like you as you touched on earlier, and has like themes that are there that are relevant to like sort of family lineage and history and so on, and dedicating it to the father grandfather, but it's like acted, wrote, direct, and directed and produced, and it's just like you're super young, but and this is like one of the last things on his IMDB too. And this is a movie that came out almost 40 years ago. Lea Anderson: Yeah, he's kind of um I've I've tried to follow up on him. It's like what's what's Joel Vaughn III up to these days, and uh a little bit of mystery, yeah. Um yeah, I don't know why why I don't know why he never went back to it. Right. Um, there's definitely questions. And I think that I think that contributes to like a lot of the allure of the film that that we don't have he's not a rapper, you know, like like it's not like Snoop who has kind of you know set himself up in the horror space. Yeah. Um, but he made this, he made this this film that's like at a time when it was really, really, really hard. It was really difficult to get these stories made. Um for reference, Daughters of the Dust, which was written and directed by Julie Dash and was the first film by a black woman that ever got distribution ever in the history of film came out at the same time, like in the same year. Oh wow. Wow. So we were at that point. We were like that early in black folks really getting to be behind the camera, not like the blackula situation of like you're in front of and then you kinda got a finesse things to make the movie not be bad. Um yeah, but I think that there's also when I when I watched it this this go around, I feel like I see the influence maybe of Ganja and Hess in it. I have no idea if he got to see that film, if if James Bond III got to see that film, especially in the original cut. But they are there's a very interesting connection between them. If he had seen it, I would argue that he misunderstood it. But if not, it's almost more interesting because of how how spiritually connected they are, and then now to sinners. I think that there's a real there's a real lineage that's established in these three films that you can trace. Rob Lee: I love that you you touched on that because that's that's the thing that was sitting there upon watching it. I was just like, you alright, you you've got there's some similar visual stuff here and characterization here as well. Um and and it's a cool thing. Um so I wanna I want to talk a little bit about trivia, because I think we got the cast covered, a little bit about trivia. Um, and then I got questions and observations and then scenes. So piece of trivia, which I thought was very interesting, and I was like, I I just like when you get those little details of like, oh, this is how you brought this to life. So like the house where the film was shot was Lawrence Fishburne spot back in the day. It's like yes. it was even When he was married to producer uh Hannah Moss, it's like this is where they were at. This is this is his crib. Oh my gosh. Makes me laugh. Holy hell. Lea Anderson: Wait, I want to watch it again now with that in mind. No way about that one. Holy crap. Everyone said that they were gonna rally around this man. Yeah. Like it's really sweet. It is very romantic. Rob Lee: Then I feel like Lawrence was like, man, I'm gonna be over here filming King of New York, man. You got my place, just use it. You can do whatever you need to, bro. Um let's see. So what a delightful little tidbit. Yeah. I so I read because I know that the uh the dude that's uh like the the head behind like trauma films and all that good stuff, just talking about elements of like uh temptation's costume is uh recycled from another trauma film, which is really funny to me. Naturally, it's like we use everything. You know, you do what you gotta do. Uh Cynthia Bond became a New York Times bestselling author. Um, you know, subsequently after this film, so it's just like you have a whole other thing. You were you were you know temptation. Now it's just like you're dope writer. That's incredible. What's the name of her book? Let me look that up actually. Or books. Let's see. Um definitely Oprah's book club. Her debut called Ruby spent six consecutive weeks on a New York Times best selling list and was chosen as selection for Oprah's book club 2.0. Yeah. Ruby. Yeah. Lea Anderson: Not bad for Temptation, not bad for Demon. Oprah's book club. Right. Rob Lee: And this is a 200 14 um release as well. So it's like uh, you know, somewhat. Oh yeah, it's been yeah, it's been some time. Lea Anderson: I want to go read her book now. Add it to the list. Add it to the list. The ever growing, ever expanding list. If I mysteriously disappear, I will it will have been underneath a pile of books. Rob Lee: That sounds very familiar. It's been very similar to my partners. It's like, look, you've got me so many books. If I I was like, I can see it. I can see it now. Oh no. Yeah. You know, God willing, that would be I'd I'd be okay with that. I'd be okay with that. I'm like, remember me as I was under DVDs, because I'm just bringing in old tech of you know, old media. Uh so this this what which I thought was really interesting. So and this goes to the rights thing you were touching on, or so distribution. So despite being made five years prior to Vampire in Brooklyn, which was the 1995 release, this film, Death by Temptation wasn't available until 1997 in Sweden, for instance, as a direct of video release. So due to some common themes, such as African American Vampire in New York, it was promoted as the sequel to Vampire Brooklyn 2. OMG. That is like you know, the 70s live. Lea Anderson: The 70s never ended. Rob Lee: No connections to previous movie, but it's part two, despite looking five years older. Lea Anderson: I'm you know, they will they will do whatever. They will do whatever nonsensical shit they come up with. Rob Lee: We're selling this movie again. Lea Anderson: Why, why, why? How does that even make sense? Rob Lee: You know how you like this well with Eddie and his press with his perm. Lea Anderson: They are such wait, now now uh now I gotta think back to Vampire in Brooklyn. Rob Lee: You do have Kadeem Hardison, that's the connection point. Lea Anderson: That's the connection, and he's the ghoul, right? Yeah, am I remembering that? You know what? Okay I love him. Rob Lee: All right, guys. He cracks me up. It's like, all right, you you write, but also So Sam Jackson and and Bill Nunn, both graduates from the from the house from Morehouse in Atlanta, appeared in several movies uh together directed by Philomorehouse alum Spike Lee. They include school days, do the right thing, Mo Beta Blues. Uh Bill Nunn would go on to appear in another Spike Lee joint, he got game. And I like I just feel like because of maybe even the the previous um review for this podcast that we did when we we did um Tales from the Hood, just Spike working in the background, maybe making a call on someone's behalf, maybe like I'm I'm gonna cry. probably wet my beak here. Absolutely. Lea Anderson: Like I I feel no doubt, even if it's if it's never confirms, it's you know, folks are always talking on the back end. Rob Lee: Uh so Kadeem Hardison, Sam Jackson, whose role was again wildly oversold, and Bill Nunn all played together um two years before this film in school days. Lea Anderson: So maybe maybe it's maybe it had been being talked about. I think maybe they all they were all dump developing it together and Bob the Third just got just got the the credits. Rob Lee: I mean, it could be one of those things too. It's like, yeah, black filmmakers, brother, just you know, yeah, we gotta elevate this brother. Lea Anderson: This movie so has that energy, it's so has that energy. Rob Lee: Um, any other things that you you may have come across in it or any observations that you wanna go into, because I'll have like observations and questions coming up in these next sort of segments I have. Um I don't think so. Lea Anderson: Maybe I mean if we talk about the um the video drum scene, if we're gonna talk about that later on. Rob Lee: That's gonna come up later on, definitely. Okay, cool. Uh so let's see. I got um so I'm gonna start going through these then, because I got a couple. Um so observations. Um I'm gonna start off right there. It's it's already played in this edit, but I don't know if you had a chance to watch the trailer. No, you should go back and watch the trailer. It is so out of pocket, the dialogue. It's almost like it's trying to be a hip hop trailer, and I was like, what are we talking about? When you hippety hopping through the hood, I was like, what is happening? Lea Anderson: Maybe Death by Temptation started that like because there's such a it's a it's a distinct moment in the late 90s and then through the 2000s, where that like you know, you add a rapper to the cast, or like add I I think Robin Coleman has a chapter in Horror Noir that's titled Just Add Z. Yeah. And that's the like, you know. You make it hippity hot. It's a horror movie, but but it's meant it's this is how we're gonna market it to black people. This is the only thing that we think black people are interested in. And yeah, just go from there. That's how my temptation becomes vampire in Brooklyn too. Rob Lee: I feel like Lloyd Kaufman was just like, we'll just make it hip hop, guys. We just add this too. I feel like that was part of the marketing conversation. Lea Anderson: Literally, literally. They probably had like a cardboard cutout of like Coolio or someone like in the room. Rob Lee: It's just like, yeah, if we can make run DMC families, that'd be great. Um, so see. Uh and I think it's for some I love love Deep Lucy, though. I'm sorry. Can I do that? No, please. No, no, keep that in. I fucking love deep Lucy. Another Sam Jackson connection, so it works. It's uh, you know. What is my what is it? My head is like a Snox Ven. Just incredible. It's just incredible. I mean, it's it's a rich history, and maybe that could be um some other content that that we do of best film featuring a like best horror film featuring a rapper, because you know, there are several, like I think the franchises, like you how many how many rappers is in the Halloween franchise? Like, you got LO and Busta. Lea Anderson: Yeah, yeah, and I mean Busta that Man, his music videos are visionary. Yeah, like he is he is so important in the conversation about black aesthetics. I think about his music videos all the time. Nice. Um, but I I did I did an article for Fangoria on the history of hip hop and horror and like the relationship between them. So probably only touched on a lot of this in there. Rob Lee: We'll put it in the show notes, actually. We should put it in the show notes. Uh so I and I think there was some discussion on sort of the for folks that watched it, I think during that time, that the um the title kind of screws it up a little bit, and that you're expecting you're expecting a rap, you're expecting a rapper, you're expecting rap music in the film, and they were like, it's not much rap in it. I was like, eh, some of the music is rap, but Jason, I feel like it's a lot of deaf jam B sides. It's like, here's some music. It's not, yo, we got the fire. We got like a rock hymn track, it's not on deaf chat, but we had like someone of that era, it's just like, yeah, we got this beat done by this in-house producer. Lea Anderson: Because we're in the commodification phase, right? We're like in the phase where we are smoothing out the edges. Right. And then you add to it that death by temptation is an and this is maybe like the most important thing that you need to know and need to understand walking into this movie, is that this is an overtly Christian film. Yes, like there is no separating this film. Like, this is a it's a biblical allegory. And so, like a lot of the the moral sensibilities associated with the church are evidenced in the way that it constructs its monster and also the victims that it chooses. Rob Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have the adulterer, you have the Did I answer the question? Yeah, no, you absolutely Okay. you have the adulterer that's in there, you have the you know, and you know, when we go back and we we see him a bit later, he's like, Yeah, my wife shot me. I was just like, well, also you you got vampire aids, my guy. Like, what happened? Which we'll talk about. Um, so I wanna I'm gonna go off with the first scene when and I'll talk about this a little bit, uh, because it's such a ridiculous scene. When we get the first bartender, and I'm just gonna say I was like, he's a dickhead in the literal sense and the figure to sense. We had a good time, right? def by temptation: So uh I assume that you're a big girl and take it so just get an abortion. What's the big deal? Hunt honey, honey, honey. You're growling. That's very unattractive. Just dump the kid, we can kick it again, right? I'll leave him pay for it. Listen, you send me the bill, and my check will be in the mail. Honey, I gotta run. Gotta go. Ciao, baby. Rob Lee: Yeah. It's like it's like when you're you're dressing now, because it was something where he was just like, um, he said something about like I like dressing up like you know, whoever I'm having affairs with, like like like husband or what have you, and I was like, this is a wild thing you just said, brother. And he has this line in there when he meets temptation, he has this line, which I had to rewind it three times to make sure I got it. And he starts we start off hot, men are trash. That's what I'm going with. That's what I wrote down. But he says, You're a hot natured freakazoid. I was like, that's a wild compliment. So how do you like the bed? def by temptation: No, I think uh you could tell a lot about a woman by the kind of bed she sleeps in. Now, This freaky bed says to me that you uh one hot natured freak is oil. They can't wait to jump my bones because you know I've got the key to your pleasures. I wrote that down too for slightly different reasons, but but the starting point of like, oh my gosh, and this was this is real, like people said freakazoid, sincerely. Yeah, yeah. Lea Anderson: I'm really glad that we've reduced that that now we just go with freak. It's it's much better. But but hot natured freakazoid is really, yeah, it really gets to a lot of um how this film views women. Rob Lee: Yes, and I and I and I think on the flip of it, or not even complete flip with his particular scene, so it's like we're starting off with shower sex, and then there's a bloodbath, and then we have full frontal male nudity, and that's like within the first five minutes of the film. Lea Anderson: Yeah, I think that maybe there it there was there was full frontal nudity in um a lot of the exploitation films, yeah. And so I don't think I think that that was still as kind of like an aesthetic, I think was still present for people, like I think full frontal nudity is a much bigger deal to audiences now than it was then and so it stands out to us a lot more now. It's so rare that you see like a dick on screen if if it's not on HBO, HBO is like the only place. Rob Lee: This is this is this is why you're here. That's that's a good take, by the way. Lea Anderson: But but but in the 70s and the 80s, you could like go to you could go to many movies and see a dick on screen. Like it wasn't it wasn't rare. The maybe edit that one after that. Rob Lee: Nope, that's all CNN. No, no rare dicks. Uh it's a thing too, which I just want to play this in my head knowing where things were filmed. I can almost see now, like, was an early day on the set for King of New York and Lawrence comes back. The fuck is this? Why is there blood on my floor? Why's this dude's dick out? God willing, god willing. These guys came here for lunch, you know, between it's a long day, guys. Lea Anderson: Standing on the edge with a sandwich, like what the fuck is going on here? Rob Lee: I'm gonna set my Aver X jacket down real quick because you know, 90s or um so after we have sort of that that first scene and a we we don't get the reveal, we're not sure what's happening as far as how the the story's being told. We just get sort of the um we get dude screaming, we get the door, and then we get the blood that comes under the door, and you know, we're to assume something happened terribly to this this person or what have you who kind of had a comment, and um then we kind of go to North Carolina. We're we're we're in North Kakalaki, as they say, and I was like, huh. So we head down to North Carolina and meet Sam Jackson who won't be around for too long. No, no, unfortunately. And um then we kind of get this sage like advice from an elder, I believe that's his grandmother to Joel, because this comes after um Sam Jackson's character, Joel's dad is in a car accident, I believe is what happens because it's it's sort of like Stark is the stark, it's like him preaching and then car accident and then him in a coffin. Lea Anderson: I'm like, whoa, what yeah, it gets a little um it gets a little surrealist there, you know. Not really. He has he's preaching, he's preaching about temptation, and he has a vision. He's he's overcome, he's beset by a vision of this like black lace clad figure who like appears out of you know a bunch of smoke and uh and like looms over baby Joel, young Joel. He's like sitting in the front pew watching his father, and um, so acting to protect his kid, Stan Jackson's character tries to like take him to his grandmother to protect him, and it's while he's trying to save him that they die in this car accident. Yeah, and the the way that the film carries that time jump, that transition from when he was a child to when he's an adult is narrated by his grandmother. Got it. And it's sort of like this is the tension that kind of like threads the film. Okay, yeah, where that those preoccupations with legacy and inheritance and what we owe people kind of like comes into being. But it's also where I think there's a subtext to this film where it's very, very Christian on top, but it's very African underneath. And his grandmother, when he's when she's talking to him, she's telling him we do this time jump, and Joel is now, you know, just shy of his 21st birthday. He's finishing up school to become a minister, and she tells him that just before you reach your goals, the moment just before you reach your goals, is a crossroads. And that's where temptation works. Right. That makes sense. So yeah, so it's kind of like a prologue to set up to set up the film. Rob Lee: So it's like it starts the the film in earnest, and then it sort of restarts in a way where it's just like, well, as we bring in sort of Joel and his thing, we're we're gonna focus. And it feels like it shifts in some ways because I'll touch on this a little bit later, because as we get to it, but it definitely hits in a different way. Um One of the next things I have is Jo uh Dougie. I was like, your his rap, his lines are crazy at the bar. One was Bruce Lee ain't even dead, you know. I'm a Kung Fu surgeon, and he says nuclear butt. I was like, you are on several, sir. And he said his most hot top faded at the time, and the mustache is super thick. I was like, You're great. This is kind of your movie in my head, and I'm like, this this works. This works. Lea Anderson: Um and Kazim Hardison together, they like steal it, they steal it when the two of them buddy up, yeah. It's Jevska's. Rob Lee: This is another thing I thought that was really funny. I wrote down um, let's see, Kristall, when uh we get to Norman, I believe is his name. Crystal is the bane of black guys' existence in the 90s. Because she's used like, oh, have your crystal. He's like, uh I don't know about all that. I was like, you're trying to have an affair, and you're cheap. Lea Anderson: Yeah, no, this is the kind of thing I want that I wonder if, like, when uh when younger people watch this back, if this these are the kinds of like cultural touchstones that they don't because they weren't there that they don't know about what a big deal Crystal was. It was like this this major signifier of like extreme wealth, which is like kind of a joke now compared to like because now the signifier is like a private jet, right? Right, right, and which is which is bigger, yeah. Rob Lee: It's just like it's like what does this even mean? And it's like I can I can drink some of this too. Because I remember the bar. Lea Anderson: So that's supposed to be this like um it's like a signifier of her overindulgence of like she's asking for too much, she wants too much, and yeah, yeah, the men are like no, no, like save my wallet, please. Rob Lee: And in maybe maybe I'm reading too much into this, but we get a little bit of a reveal later, because this is bartender bartender number two, because it's the first bartender he became succuba food or have you. Um also I I'll ask this since since you're here and you're you're a scholar, you know your things, you know, you know, you know the monsters, so um, amongst other things, but uh the so vampire succubi, because I've seen it, I've seen temptation described as both, and I thought they kind of have some significance. So can we can we can we add a little clarity there? Lea Anderson: So there's a certain amount of slippage, there's a lot of slippage between the succubus as a monster and vampires as monsters, and a lot of that has to do with the sexual subtext of both of them. Um both tend to both are characterized as devouring monsters, so they there's a phallus in that's sort of coded and represented through the teeth. Sure. That puncture and draw blood out or flesh. Um the succubus, I think is a because there's a male counterpart also in the incubus, but they kind of emerge from the same tensions of a of phantom lover or like a kind of phantom desire, suppressed phantom desire, and there's also kind of a shared history, and I think that this comes back to is mostly encapsulated in the vampire, and you see this um in Death by Temptation because of the biblical allegories and the sort of insinuations that are made about temptation and her connection to the serpents. There's a longer, older history of vampires' connections to parasites and to worms. And through that, viruses also. So you see this in Temptation, where she encapsulates the snake. There was in like old folklore, ancient old folklore, there's a lot of slippage between worms and dragons and serpents. And so all of that history, all of that history of like the construction of these monsters, these stories that have been told for hundreds and thousands of years, gets kind of encapsulated in temptation in the temptress, who is also coded as a Jezebel figure. Yes. Which also kind of draws out the apocryphal story of Lilith, which is present in um, which comes out of Jewish mythology. And I'm not sure because I'm not Christian, I'm not sure how present she is in the way that those stories are kind of taught from Christian perspectives. But I think that those tensions, the tensions that Lilith kind of encapsulates, kind of also come up in Jezebel. I think that that's kind of like the the explicitly Christian thread of them. Makes sense. Rob Lee: That you know, having that extra context on it, because I I think in the I did talk about it a little bit with my partner, we were, you know, discussing sort of like where does this work? How does where is it kind of come together? Where does it delineate it? And we just kind of got caught on the notion of it's it's the sex piece. It's it's is that it's like how we we playing with that, and I think that's where we're kind of leaning into with this film as well. It's like you have at least that's where it's introduced, and then once we bring Joel in, it kind of shifts to as you were saying earlier, sort of that setup of like, oh, temptation's gonna be there, and it's to go back to the the sort of sinner's connection or potential connection there of when Saul Williams character is just like, well, that was gonna follow your own. That's like, oh, this is exactly we're doing that. Oh, okay, I got you. Exactly. Lea Anderson: Exactly. Um, yeah, centers opens with the exact same setup, the the emergence of the crossroads, right? You have you are either going to follow your father's footsteps and become a preacher, or Sammy's gonna go off and become a bluesman, and yeah, so you have those tensions of like responsibility and destiny and all of that. What's interesting about watching them together, and then gets much more interesting if you throw Gonja and Hess in there as well, um, is are the completely different responses to the same question, the same setup that each film kind of arrives at or doesn't arrive, refuses to arrive in no no no, all of them do all of them kind of like come back together. I I think even it really trailed off there. Rob Lee: No, no, you're good, you're good. And I think even with how from a characterization standpoint, like the the way that Joel looks is kind of what Sammy looks like. If you put a hat on Joel, like huh. you both have the sort of darker skin, round face, your man-child kind Lea Anderson: of the baby, maybe the babiness of it, and yeah, that like that tension of um, you know, it's not coincidental that both of these films' main characters, their protagonists, like the ones who are kind of like taking the hero's journey, sure, are in this space between childhood and adulthood. Right. And then kind of the same way that the twins are kind of like Sammy's guides, yeah, even though their fates depart at the end, but they kind of like usher him into this choice. K kind of represents that in Death by Temptation, where he's kind of like he's kind of like the keeper of the keys of the city, and he's unlocking that experience for Joel, but is ultimately ultimately as Joel continues to like attest, he's kind of very petulant in the film of like, I'm not a child, I'm an adult. I can make my own choices. And Kay is like, no, you're not, you can't even dress yourself. Like sit down. Rob Lee: Look, his fit that he gave him. And we're gonna move into to sort of this next phase. I I want to talk a bit actually about um Kay. So I think at this point where we have Joel in in New York, he's come up, he's had the conversation with Kay about coming up or have you from North Carolina. And at this point, there's some sort of like fantasy sequence, which I think is really cool, where um temptation kind of interacts with Kay, and he kind of gives his line or whatever, because all of the men in this movie are crazy confident, which I'm like, all right, guys, settle down. And um they they meet he thinks like, yeah, we know we're gonna get up for a repeat date or something like that. And um, and I think that's when the call comes in. Um if I remember it correctly, and temptation thought she had K, and she's tight. It's like you interrupted what I'm trying to do. And what was it? Um the line in it that aligns with sort of K, I think when he's uh talking to like Sammy and Sammy's like, oh yeah, not Sammy, Joel. It's just like, yeah, you know, we're we're relatives and we're we love each other and all of that stuff. And he's like, ah, I only say manly shit. Don't don't say any of that to me. We'll hug one time, and it's just like I've done that before. Lea Anderson: Yeah, this is definitely this film is like very, very concerned with the sanctity of like black men's spiritual welfare. Yeah, and it sort of grounds that sanctity in the relationships between men and like black brotherhood. Yeah, and that's that's predominantly written through Kay and Joel, and the relationship is so sweet. Like, that's so yeah, like you just said, is like such a relatable scene. I know I've seen I've seen men act that out, you know, right? Like as anyone who's listening, probably also has had has had that experience. Um, so yeah, there's these like really sweet touchstones throughout the movie, these interactions that occur between them, and yeah, like Kay helping him get dressed with his ridiculous outfits. Rob Lee: It's they're they're not it's like yo, and he was like throwing out different slang or what have you. It's like you don't even know what that means, bro. Like you're just saying stuff, and it's like, I country mouse, like why are you here? Lea Anderson: Um to I do want to go back to that real quick though, because I realize I I I bypassed it. Um that tension is also between North Carolina and New York, between like the South, the rural South, and like the big bad city. This is uh this is like characteristic of black film through the mid-20th century, and like obviously has that's a tradition that has continued to follow. Um there's a whole tradition of like great migration literature, and also in film, Great Migration. That's what Daughters of the Dust is about, is about you know the the Gologeechee leaving their land, some of them coming back to the lands never to leave again, and some of them leaving never to return. And so we have that tension about like the homes of our four mothers of our forefathers, where we're from, and then like the tension of like progress and the future and the urban. And so you see that play out between Joel and Kay, where like, yeah, Joel is a prey item in the city. He doesn't have his bearings, it's a completely new territory for him, but it also is kind of like doing this thing where it's like the city is like this is like a monster unto itself, is like a vampire unto itself, and you see this also in Van. Rob Lee: Yes, which which was the other one on the short list. Lea Anderson: Yes, yeah, they're they're very similar in in that capacity. Um, and yeah, the tension is like, don't get eaten by the vampire, don't get drained. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rob Lee: And then I think going back before I move into this, this next this next observation is um the the innocence thing that there, just to really hammer that point home as you were you were touching on with sort of these young men transitioning into sort of adulthood, just the characterization. Like I looked not I'm 41 now, but I kind of looked somewhat like this at like 20. I didn't look it looked like I was five years older or something. So it's like you're in your mid-20s, but they still look like like kids, you know, sort of the Sammy and Joel comparison. So almost even the the physical uh presentation and just not knowing anything kind of thing just adds to the innocence of like, oh, you're you're in for it potentially. Lea Anderson: Totally, totally. And we're always kind of fighting against that tendency, that like perceptive tendency to perceive black children not as children to perceive black children as adults or as older than they are, more mature than they actually are. And so that's something that everyone's always kind of like you gotta struggle with because you don't want to. So how do we like soften him to the perception of a viewer, right? So you'll see how like Joel's voice is like very it's kind of like high pitched. It is yeah, he he and that petulance that I was talking about, you know, it's kind of like it's kind of like a a child stomping their to their feet at you. Yeah, kind of has that energy strong. Um, yeah, yeah. And the film really org is organized around like protecting that, about like when he and Kay get into get into their fight when the temptress comes between them, Kay makes a point of saying that he takes responsibility for him, that he feels responsible for him. And so there's kind of this like if we're if we start to think about it in terms of archetype, then it's like it's like Joel and Sammy are like the children of us. Yeah. That we're all called to responsibility to to protect and to shield. Rob Lee: So so in that, let's let's let's talk about that piece a little bit. I want to hit these other pieces, but I want to go back to to sort of where we're at in it, where it is sort of the temptress is in the middle between Kay and Joel, like in a sense, Joel has staked his claim as sort of this, you know, this quote it sort of uh 90s. I got this going, I'm a I'm a slamming guy, everyone wants me to why is my corny cousin or whatever, you know, getting this girl that I think I should get. So, you know, uh so the bartender, I want to touch on him real quick. The new bartender, he looks like Ice Cube to me a lot, and I wrote this down twice in my notes. Um, and I think he plays a thing later, but we'll get to that. Um, there's a nice effect when temptations puts her stocking on, like without touching them, it just rolls up her leg. I was like, that's kind of cool. Um another 90s callback, which is really funny. Friggin' Freddie Jackson, who I didn't recognize at the time, slides in to throw all types of salt into Dougie's game. Dougie is always at the bar, and you later learn what he's kind of actually doing at the bar, but he's always at the bar just yapping. And I'm like, this is my guy. Um, so then we get to this portion where temptation kind of plays out Kay a little bit in front of Joel. I have no idea. We're meeting for the first time, and we already have had this exchange, and uh And so I guess she's putting her claim into to getting Joel, much to K Chagrin when he had their their sort of fight and all of that. And she comes by their place, like you're you're staying with Kay, my guy. Like, this is what's happening. And Kay is bugging when she shows up, and she feigns like she does not know his name. Lea Anderson: Hurry up, though. We want to take advantage of this gorgeous day out. Okay. No, dear. I believe it was uh twice we made it the club. Really? Yeah, what was your name? Okay, you got more fucking animation. Rob Lee: Let I don't god damn what my fucking name is. Let me ask you a question. What kind of adult you smoking? What kind of what kind of game are you We that we get a little bit of that reveal where he like looks over his shoulder, he's like no reflection? It was it was that sort of energy. He was so thrown off. Lea Anderson: It was so campy. I love it. Like, I love when those moments come through the comedy and it comes through. Um, yeah, no, he does like four takes. It's really it's real silly. It's really cartoonish. But wouldn't you also like 100%? It's like yeah, check yourself. Rob Lee: Also, I'd be looking in the mirror to see myself a little bit longer. It's because of the beard. I don't know. Um, So I think I think they're and this is a little weird. Like, I wasn't quite sure where they were at. So we get to this sort of we're we're cutting back and forth sort of thing, because we learn that I think Kay and Dougie are friends, so they kind of link up or what have you, and they're doing their side mission, and the line that Dougie how he reveals what he does is so ridiculous to me. It's like, yeah, you know, part of uh it I was like, are you just hellboy? Like, what are you saying? And um he's Black Mulder. Literally, and I was like, this is now much more interesting. And then uh Joel and Temptation are on some kind of date at a coffee shop that's empty for some reason. I don't know what's happening there, but um Lea Anderson: it's the smoke they've got wafting, you know. It's it's it's that moon. Rob Lee: Yeah, and um, and and she slips up when she's talking to him because he's just talking about just what he wants to do and all of this, and she slips up and says he wants to be a minister. She should not know this at all. And it's just like, oh, well, I kind of got that off of you. And I was like, hmm, that's a red flag there, Big Jay. He need to be paying attention. Lea Anderson: Yeah, most definitely. He uh he doesn't know how to read the signs, you know, he doesn't know how to read the room. He's his young blood. Rob Lee: I feel like I feel like there's a um what is it? What what do we have here? Uh there so and now I'm I'm feeling I'm getting the sort of because I'm not not trying to go completely chronological, but there's a few other things that I noticed in there. There's the weird thing with Jonathan. I don't know if you remember Jonathan. So John's Jonathan, remind me. He was a guy that approached Temptation at the bar, and I think he's his character's gay. Lea Anderson: And that goes, Oh yeah, he's yeah, he's uh he's the L. Yeah. Is like the suggestion. Um yeah, then that takes that takes a very different turn. But we have it so like we look at like the men that she's killed up to now. And yeah, the first one was just like if we're talking in church language, he's lustful. Yes. He's he's leading with the trouser snake. Uh the second the second um the second is the dude who's married, and she she lets him live but sends him away with the suggestion of AIDS. They don't they don't say it explicitly, but yeah, and then we we so we get again that connection between vampires and infection and illness, which you know goes back to the Victorian period when everyone had tuberculosis. Um where it looks like we're headed back there. vampires Oof. Vampires arise. Um uh and now, yeah, so now we have her third victim whose crime it seems is being gay. Right. And yeah, that definitely um the movies mean to him. Rob Lee: Yes, it is. It's um it it the the of course, like I'm sitting there and I'm watching it, and it was a little bit I've never seen above seen this one clip from what like Philadelphia when Denzel has that sort of exchange with the dude and the um like uh right aid or what have you, and it was kind of like that in the bar. He's like, Am I that obvious? It's like, well, everyone has a gay army. Like I was like, it's it's like he probably is kind of interested, and you both have the same hair product. So let's be really honest. Let's be real, but yeah, and I think outside of like killing these other men, she's even she's mean to him too. Like, how dare you show up here or what have you, that sort of energy. And I'm like, wow, that's you showed up uninvited to a vampire's place, my my guy. Yeah. Lea Anderson: I would I'm interested in like she didn't know because it was almost like retribution, like she was angry that like her feminine wiles weren't working on him. So she punishes him. True. And it's like the she punishes him and just kind of like lashes him, right? Like, like it's real the curtains around the four-poster bed, they they look like a morgue. They look like morgue curtains. They do at the end of it. Um the like scene of devouring is really really pronounced with this character. And this is it's like, you know, I I wish it wasn't. I w I wish that the film's morality, the axis of morality that it's hinging on was different. Yeah. Rob Lee: Cause that that does it does stick out. Um that particular thing. It's like we're we're there a little bit longer, even when you touch on the Norman character who's doing the like you're cheating on your wife, my guy, and we kind of get this sort of future scene of um all of the people that have died, I guess, that pop up at the bar, and we learn that he died, but not by her hands that he was shot by his wife and I or something, which is is sort of off screen, but this character who's barely Jonathan, who's barely on the screen, dies in probably the most vile or vicious way. Lea Anderson: Yeah, yeah. It's definitely um, I mean, I don't know if it's intentional. We could like talk about you know, like Freud and the unconscious or whatever, but it does seem like there's a particular animosity that the film has for that specific character. Um, but it's also you see this kind of like steady pacing over the course of it with regard to like how vicious the temptress is. Yeah. At the beginning, she's kind of like got like her mask on, you know, like we're seeing her in her in her temptress suit, and as the film goes on, and as the stakes get higher, then those tensions kind of like amp up. Yeah, so this is the first time where we see her be like really really really vicious, and so what that's doing is like setting up the stakes for the rest of the film of like this is what Joel is in for if she's allowed to get her claws in him. Yeah. Rob Lee: Um, so we're getting towards that sort of third act of the third act of the film, and um, one other person I thought that was sort of immune, if you will, to temptations while it was actually Dougie. He didn't seem to get caught up because I guess the nature of what his job is, and he touched on it a bit earlier. We're at this stage chronologically, as we've been discussing, of the sort of side by side, if you will, where you know, on the date or what have you that tempt that uh temptation and uh Joel are having and Dougie and Kay um pull up on Madam Sonia's place. Lea Anderson: This spirit, which can only be referred to as it uses sexuality to hold morality hostage. It's a reason for being is to seduce the subconscious, the conscious, yay, the very soul, so that it might remain in a fallen lustful state of existence. You know, from the first moment I saw you, I Speaker 4: had the feeling that I could come to you. I don't know, like might sound corny, but I have the feeling that uh destinies are entangled somehow. Do you know what I mean, Joe? Lea Anderson: Um Madam Sonya. Rob Lee: One of my favorite sequences of of the movie, actually, and um it's good. That I think that part works really well, and then it just starts to go into this direction where I'm like, I'm gonna hang out with Shaw for the rest of the movie. Like, this is fine. I hope I hope Joel gets gets gets it gets it right, you know. I hope they live happily or whatever they're doing. I want Shaw to be this is the thing I'm looking for. And um because you're kind of going into this other world and it leans into the sort of sci-fi, it leans into the monsters of the week sort of thing. I'm like, there's legs here, and um, and you know, maybe a little love crafting, love craft country there. Um definitely and we we get to sort of them trying to uh lure her, lure temptation to the bar, I believe. I think that's kind of where we're at. And I wrote this down. I was like, yo, what's up with the diet holy water or the new coke of holy water? It did not work, it did nothing. Lea Anderson: The um wait, didn't it did it? Oh no, was that like a uh what should have happened, and then it didn't, because the bartender there's that reveal of the switch up, right? Rob Lee: Yeah, so that's the thing. Um, this is the question I have, and I think we do see him later. Is the bartender just like a familiar or something or just in on it? Lea Anderson: Yeah, that's how I read it. I like he's like a Renfield, he's like uh he's a ghoul. Um, so yeah, they're in cahoots. He's like doing her bidding. Like she ate the first vampire. Or the first bartender. The the first bartender at the front of the movie at the beginning of the movie, and then you know, but you still need a bartender. True. Rob Lee: And I think we see pieces of that when when we go back to the Norman thing, you make sure that's Crystal, like, you know, hook that up. Like, you know, she's he's serving her best interest. It's like even then, I'm looking out master or mistress. Lea Anderson: Um yes, and there's like it draws that that connection because this is this is horror as a as a morality tale, right? So it draws also that connection with like Joel, the emphasis that's placed on Joel and drinking. Yeah, um, because that's kind of like treated as like the first temptation, right? Is alcohol that she offers him. And then when Kay is kind of like pushing back, he's like, Well, you know, what she's got you, she's got you all worked up, you know. Are you going to drink what she offers you? And this is coded for sex, right? But it also actually is about about the alcohol because Joel doesn't drink, because he's you know, good and holy and devout and all that. He doesn't imbibe, and uh, but then he does. Then he like he has a little that cause it, that's what causes the like first real rupture between him and Kay, and Kay and his like when he's pushing back a K again, like the way that a child would, he deflects and turns it around, and he's like, Well, but you're drinking, so nothing you say has any relevance. I learned it from you. Beside the point, Joel, that's not what we're talking about here. Rob Lee: Then I think we get to we're in a scene, we're in a bar, and they try to do the holy water thing, and just the switcheroo, and it's almost a little trolley, too. And the way that she pops back up, and it's like they're like, We need to get the hell out of here. Where's my car? Which is definitely a thing from you have one or two things that happens in the 90s. Either your car is gone or it's on four cinder blocks, you don't have wheels, it's it's good. So they kind of run off their separate ways, uh, Dougie and Kay, and um Dougie gets a cab and it's driven by our bartender friend. And as I wrote it, Dougie got got, and I was like, Oh no, oh no, not my guy. Yeah, and then we get to kind of a cool sequence, which is the the one that you referenced earlier when we get back to um Kay is back at his crib, and if you want to set that up, you know, Kay gets back home, and what happens there. Lea Anderson: Oh god, my favorite, my favorite scene of the movie. Um Kay gets back, gets back to his house, and he walks in, and he thinks that you know she might be lurking in there, so he's all jumpy, he's got his gloves on, you know. If you're really into horror, then you know this is kind of a jalo thing. Yeah, um, and he makes his way over to the refrigerator and pours out, pulls out some beer and takes a big healthy swig, and then he starts to see things in the TV. Oh and it's him, it's himself, it's himself, and he's kind of beckoning, and this is um very much so a reconstruction of the scene in video drone, and so uh, so like Kadeem, you know, gets all close up to the TV, and it's his mouth, and he like enters his mouth through the television screen, and it's fucking phenomenal, and then like it spits the bones and the blood out. I just I love it. There's like a cartoon figure of Reagan, yeah, like on top of and behind the TV, just you know, and there had been like a whole diatribe about Reaganomics beforehand. It's it's just it's it's excellent, it's excellent, it's an incredible scene. Um I don't really mind that it's derivative. I think that it's in the broader scope of the work. It's like I imagine that everyone was a fan of video drome, and that's why this scene is in this movie. It's like for love of the genre first, but it also really works in the context of the movie, and it's it's core preoccupations, because the reason Kay is in New York is because he's an actor, he's pursuing acting, and so there's like this tension about being consumed with your own self-image and the temptation of that, the temptation of like losing yourself to the version of yourself that you want to project to the world. That still feels very, very, very prescient. It's like, you know, the the this is the this is what what video drone is about in the first place, and then I think Death by Temptation took that and put it in this like very specific context that still is deeply resonant to us today in different ways. For sure. Now it's this. Rob Lee: And I and I think we get a little bit of that leading into it, especially with Temptation and Kay's initial interaction where he kind of talks about his work. Oh, I'm an actor, and he kind of elevates it a little bit more, but he kind of brings it down, is doing that sort of fake humility thing. Yeah. Lea Anderson: Yeah. Yeah. He blows out. It's like she's like, oh, you look familiar. And he's like, oh, well, you might have seen me in, and you know, no one's seen this. Rob Lee: No, no one's seen. No one has seen it. You were the fifth guy on 21 Jump Street, like settle down. You were the fifth extra. So we we get to the sort of chewy rap, because that's kind of like a big scene, right? And we get to like the sort of chewy rap. I'm not wrote down a few notes, but it was, you know, at that point, I was like, this is this is good. I think I'm I think I'm all set. Um, but I but yeah, I finished it. We get the actual reveal of what temptation looks like. We get like basically like she's like, I've had enough of this. Um you know, Joel, me and you gonna this is what's happening. And we we have this thing where he's either having a vision or a dream where he sees his dad, you know. I was like, oh, Sam Jackson's here for the other day that he filmed for, and I was like, Lea Anderson: No, it's probably the same day, probably the same day. Maybe they did them both. Rob Lee: Because the picture though, the the when he's standing over the bed that Joel's in, that's on the cover. I'm like, this is yeah, y'all were efficient. Um, but we we had that, and then sort of I think it's sort of that that maybe that snake thing, I think of Ka from uh Jungle Book. Lea Anderson: It's like I have you know, I have you, you know, in my in the the guys, and his grandmother pops up and to save the day, like she's up there, and I was like, she went flying, she she went flying to a wall, which was Lea Anderson: she did grandma flew, she she really I like wire work. across. Rob Lee: I I enjoy wire work, and um for the most part Joel kind of nerfed temptation off a little bit, and I was like, Oh, kind of kind of won out pretty easily right there. I was like religion, yeah. Lea Anderson: It's it's so funny the way it's shot to where it's like it's like this great gusting winds that he's like fighting against, but you know, isn't like tensing his muscles enough so you can see you see how that's funny. I love it, I love it. All the best. Nothing. It's Fighting against nothing. Rob Lee: It's it's one of the things where the and it's no shot to him, he's done a lot of stuff in a very short period of time for someone who's 20 or 21 or what have you, chronologically in real life, to take on all of those different different things with a budget with real adult actors, and you know, just a lot of stuff going on there. I think we can't do everything, right? So I don't know if he's as strong or as interesting in the acting part. I think it's like you're doing a lot, and so the acting is the thing that kind of takes a little bit of a step back in terms of what I enjoyed about the film. Um Yeah. but yeah, you know, I in part of it is once we get to sort of my guys, you know, we get to to Dougie and Kay, I'm like, I'm I'm here for this guy. It's like we can we could do whatever. And I'll say we we get Joel kind of moving into the direction that he's following the path that he was gonna engage in, and then we kind of go back to the bar, and we're like, what's happening at the bar? We get the reveal. Uh Dougie is now in the uh in almost thriller-esque way, by the way. He's just temptation, and it's just like, but it but but but because he's done what he's done, always posted up the debar, yet chap chatting up every woman that's there, and the bartender's still alive, so it's just like we're just running this now, it's just dudes. Um, but also worth mentioning because it it's in there. We we got it. The we kind of got two reveals in that last portion. We got the reveal of what I supposed uh temptation looked like in the car, and the reveal actually when the wind is blowing and it's in the middle of a turbine. What do you think of the visuals? What do you think of those particular masks? Lea Anderson: Uh they're appreciate uh I appreciate I appreciate practical effects. Okay. I'm I'm I don't need hyper realism. I hear you in in my horror. Um so I still enjoy it. It's not gonna be for everyone. Sure, it's not gonna land for everyone, but if like that's kind of the thing that puts you off. I don't know. I I always feel like it's kind of a cop out to like put too much weight on the production of something. I'm because I'm kind of like an ideas person. There's like a whole host of horror movies that were made with like relatively small budgets. This isn't necessarily one of them. Five million dollars, I think get out was made for five million dollars. Right. If I'm remembering correctly. Um but yeah, there's like they could have put some more money towards in that in that direction, I feel like, but you know, who knows what Sam Jackson was pulling. Rob Lee: For context, that five million would be worth 12 million today. Speaker 4: Not a small amount of money. Lea Anderson: Also, for context, Blackula was made for half a million. Rob Lee: And that is more than a decade older than this movie. Just just for context. It's like what do you know what'd you guys do here? And also shooting in New York may be goofy. I don't know, but you know, just and it's a recycled mess. It's not like, you know, just kind of, you know, but it didn't take anything away from it from me, I'll say. Yeah. Lea Anderson: No, no. And it was still kind of like, even though you can like see the putty, you know. It's there's still really beautiful images because of the way it's lit and and like the smoke and and everything. Um, like it still feels satisfying as a reveal and an ending to me. But again, it's like definitely a sensibility. But what I encourage folks to get more comfortable with, watch bad badly produced movies. It's good for you. Rob Lee: So there's two things I want to get to before we go into sort of our f our favorite scene and then we close out. Uh so this is an observation in well, one is one is a factory, and the other's observation. So I'm still thinking if you were touching on earlier, Spike's fingerprints on is on it. Because you know what a bar is set, the bar setup at? No, it's for a green. Oh, this just tracks. Lea Anderson: This is this is just he said these folks will let you film. Rob Lee: He's like, yeah, and he's like, you can drink here too. You know, I know you're not supposed to drink for your character, but you know, just to be in a dick. Everyone else can. Yeah, no, you're you're good here, right? Um And in the film, and it is I think this kind of touches on what you were discussing like earlier as far as that late 80s, well, the set in this film that's set in the 90s, but really it being the late 80s and sort of the climate of of black film during that time. I think the the the conversation for this is similar to the contribution for Blade being kind of the real start of that era of Marvel movies, and it happens to be a horror movie with a black lead that's and it kind of not getting its due is kind of ignored in that that conversation. And I think I look at it from this perspective. If I go to like Walmart, which I don't go to, but if I go to like a Walmart and get a box set, what's gonna be in there of sort of black horror movies or black movies from like this era? I don't know if Death by Temptation is in there, and it probably should be based on the merits of the film. Lea Anderson: I totally agree. I totally agree. And um yeah, no, that's it. Like Blade was huge for me personally, like most of us who were you know conscious during that time period. Um Blade was massive. There's like a before blade and an afterblade, like in my personal Rob Lee: I mean, when that joint came out, I was uh what I think either 12 or 13, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna tattoo in the back of my neck, I'm gonna shave my head, I'm gonna get tattoos on my head. Yeah, that's like I always say it as always a motherfucker trying to skip up ice skate uphill. I always say that now. That's just real life. It's just uh, you know, you can't fight with greatness. Lea Anderson: Um yeah, no, blades everything. But but yeah, this there's no way to kind of deny this. I feel like death by temptation is important to understanding the history of black horror as a narrative tradition, it's a really important turning point, and it has also because it exists within this sort of broader cosmology, the sort of broader narrative tradition that Gonja and Hess touches into that, but really goes back to our folklore and our spiritual religions. Um Death by Temptation is important to sinners. Yeah, absolutely, you know, it's like and there's a whole host of of other films that kind of fall into that as well. Um Nikki Aujusu's short film Suicide by Sunlight, I think is also really takes a lot of its cues from Blade. So yeah, if you're if you're trying to create like a kind of microcosm for black horror in general, absolutely. But if you're trying to like create, you know, I'm blanking on a word here. Microcosm isn't the right word. Um but if you're trying to like tell the story of black vampires in American filmmaking, it's necessary, it's necessary, it's canonical. And whatever you feel about the movie personally in terms of like how it hits for you, it's kind of beside the point. Yeah. Rob Lee: So as we wind down, there's two pieces of business I want to uh close out on. I want to talk about um our and I and I think I'm gonna frame it a little bit differently because we've touched on a few different really cool scenes in the movie, and maybe they are the scenes that pop up as your favorite, but I want to frame it in this context. If you're trying to get this film over, and I think we're both on the same page of you, I should watch this film. What would be if you're sending someone like a video from YouTube, like a two-minute segment, what's your scene from the movie that you're sharing with someone that says this is indicative of this film, and I think you should watch it. Take this, take a look at this sample. First ones for free. Lea Anderson: Is it wrong to say it's a video drone scene? Rob Lee: No, I don't know. Like 100% right. Lea Anderson: I wish it wasn't. I wish it was different. Um if not the video drum scene, then the silly opening scene, then the silly opening sequence. Rob Lee: See, this is this is this is why we're friends. That's that's great. That's great. I like both of you. Um yeah, I I think for different reasons, both of those are on my short list, but I'm gonna share mine's and mine's is because it's interspersed back and forth. Mons is the man, Madam Sonya scene. It's it's really good, I think. Lea Anderson: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 100% uh yeah. Um, yeah, the great Madam Sonya because reveal all of the miss all the mysteries. Rob Lee: Because temptation is spazzing the whole time. She was just like, you know, it she's like talking, and he's like, Who are you talking to? Don't worry about it. Yeah, yes, yes. Lea Anderson: They're Joel and Joel and the Tempest are uh they're having their little date and she's glitching out. Um no, my favorite part, my favorite part of the Madam Sonya scene is actually what comes right before it, right before they end up there. Yeah. Dougie is like filling Kay in on his, you know, his ex-files situation, essentially. And he says that he like really wants to close the book on this and he really wants to catch her, but you you know, you can't wait for the cops to do anything. So in lieu of going to the police, they go to Madam Sonya, and that's my favorite thing. Rob Lee: It it works super effective, and I think when I look at that scene, I'm looking at for sort of that whole sequence kind of stitched together because it works really well, and I think like I would love to see that sort of come back in some way, just someone like look, this is an unabashed homage to this, but you know, we're here. This is just sort of um, you know, again, like an ex-files, men in black, sort of like this is some wild stuff that's happening, and we're covering it. Black eyes. Lea Anderson: Yeah, maybe you know what they should do for um for Ryan Kugler's X-Files that they should do like uh capsule episode, like a Jose Chunks from Outer Space, yeah, kind of situation. Um following Kay and Dougie like as their characters, as those characters. I would like this. And just see what they get up to. Rob Lee: See, we need to we need to get Ryan on the on this on the blower. We need to have a conversation with him, get Ryan on the blower. Um Mr. Kugler. RC. Uh if I can call you RC. Um, so that's kind of it. Um, that I I have. I think we covered it. We really broke it down. Thank you for all of your um just professional insight, your scholarly background, and just for hanging out with me. This has been uh totally a treat. And um glad we were able to watch this movie and talk about it. Lea Anderson: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I love to chat about these films and hang out with great company. It's it's a great time. Rob Lee: So, real quick, um, as we close out here, um, just where can folks follow you, check you out if you want to share anything, uh, website or or social. As always, I put it out there. It's always about sharing the the lines. Lea Anderson: Yeah, um, so you can follow me on Instagram. It's at A R A C H L E A A. I have to spell it out because there's no pronouncing that. Um, I don't know what I was thinking. Um, and you can follow me on Blue Sky at Aurelia. Spelled L E A at the end instead of L I A. Um, yeah, I have I just started I just started a little newsletter where I'm looking at like pop culture stuff through the lens of horror and the gothic. So that's new and fun. Yeah. Um, and yeah, lots of stuff coming down the pipe. Rob Lee: Well, thank you so much, Leah Anderson. Thank you for coming back on to Let's Watch It Again. And this was our retrospective, our talk on death by temptation.