Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh Deah 138:7-11. Wine: Sherry Casks; Kashering a Wine Filter

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Yoreh Deah 138:7-11. Wine: Sherry Casks; Kashering a Wine Filter · SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day!

0:01
OK, we are concluding yeh NASA today bizarat Hashem and we are
0:06
on kuf lamid khat. We are starting to EF Zain today
0:13
and we're going to sum up a little bit about what we learnt
0:17
until now to put Sherry casks in one short chair Zain mishmera
0:23
chel yain shell goem. So here you had some kind of, or
0:28
do Moshe call it a sifter sief. It's basically it's like Misha
0:34
mera. It's basically it's kind of like
0:35
a, a bull that has, let's say cheesecloth over it.
0:40
And then you pour your wine through there and that's how you
0:44
you filter. There you go some kind of a
0:47
filter. So there you go, Misha mera,
0:49
chil yin chil goin. If you have a filter of that was
0:54
used by Agoy, he used Stam yenam.
0:57
So like you have Stam yenam there.
0:58
It's asur bamashi, right? At least according to how do you
1:06
kasha A sifter. All you have to do is just rinse
1:09
it out. If it's made out of hair, it's
1:11
made out of hair. You just rinse it off and it's
1:14
good to go. You don't even have to dry dry
1:17
it, Just rinse it. It can stay wet from the water
1:19
and you're good to go. We assume it comes all this
1:21
Tamiyanam rinses away, but if it's wool, it's a little harder
1:27
for it to all come out. Sri Khani Goof.
1:30
You have to make sure it's completely dry and then you can
1:33
use it. The imhi shell piste right this
1:36
you don't have to do any of the other stuff, Milevi Uri, any of
1:39
those other stuff 'cause this is just passing right through it.
1:42
It's a short period of time the imhi shell piste on, but if it's
1:46
flax that doesn't come out the it's it absorbs and gets stuck
1:52
in there part particles of the stamyenum stay in there.
1:55
You can't get it out and the only way to kashure it is srika
1:58
the yashna shneemasar kodesh. You have to let it dry out for
2:03
12 months. Perhaps you can put it into some
2:05
other cli with the iray for 72 hours.
2:10
I'm just raising that as a possibility.
2:12
I didn't see anyone discuss it. It would make sense to me right?
2:16
It's good enough for tar pitch and everything else.
2:20
But as you're saying, but maybe it's more absorbent.
2:25
OK, Anyways, it's not sola misa. Boiling hot water I would assume
2:31
is also OK, but I don't know, I haven't seen it.
2:35
And so we'll leave it as a Sarhyam.
2:39
It's a it's a, it's a Nisr darabanan.
2:41
But so maybe there's what to be make of.
2:43
The assumption here is that a filter is just used.
2:47
Yeah, filters used to momentarily, but it's there's a
2:50
stream of wine that's running through it for days.
2:55
I don't know, but you just. Thanks for mentioning a stream
2:58
of wine. I don't know, but a stream of
2:59
water might also be good enough to cost share it, as we saw.
3:02
OK, let's move on. We don't want to hazard
3:05
everything on your own. Klee Khalaf.
3:10
Some kind of a a dish, some kind of utensil and it's what is
3:15
Khalaf? It's made Peru Shamin Asif.
3:19
It's made-up of what's it called leaves, some kind of leaves
3:27
vegetation. You know, we know we have our
3:34
what are those question those things for?
3:38
I'm sorry. You're lulava netzrug, you're
3:41
holders Kesher, the kesher clock, whatever you call it.
3:46
So it's made out of lulavin. Yeah, once I went to Hawaii and
3:52
you can they make all kinds of stuff.
3:54
It's like a thing to sell and make all kinds of things out of
3:57
these things. Anyway, haya hutsa any of these
4:01
leaves with hayote behen MIC fevos shamasanin Bahama yayin in
4:05
my YouTube. So then you want to use these to
4:09
filter your wine, right? You want to get rid of the all
4:12
the particles, the pits, whatever it is, if it's lightly
4:24
just tied again, just rinse it no problem.
4:27
But if it's really, which is usually how it is with the
4:31
leaves, what I've seen, but if it's really Sibukasha, I don't
4:36
know. It's tightly intertwined and
4:38
tangled up. So therefore the water can't get
4:40
through them very well. And you go, they need to be
4:42
dried, Vima, yutufurin, Pishtan, Miyashnan and again.
4:46
And if it's stitched together with flax, then you have to wait
4:50
12 months. Sakhi luba, dafiunaf alem, yayin
4:59
rotea, our kinds of our tablecloths, I don't know,
5:04
cloth. And if a stammenam falls on it,
5:09
pours on it, spills on it, whatever, all you have to do is
5:13
just rinse it with water. Even if the wine was boiling
5:16
hot, all you have to do is just rinse it with water and that's
5:20
all that's needed, right? Even with cold water, that's all
5:26
that's needed. OK, let's go on Ted.
5:33
Anytime we just said that you need to have it dried out.
5:38
You also have to undo those tight knots about the hex or
5:41
mealy the irui. And here we see.
5:44
But if you were going to do mealy the irui in those cases
5:48
instead of right, the the point was hadaka versus 12 months.
5:52
But now we're throwing in you could just do Hacher.
5:55
But Mele Viti, right? It can be you should name a
5:57
sarcology. Or you wait 12 months and then
6:02
you don't have to undo the knots.
6:04
OK, good. Anytime.
6:07
We just said you could just you have to.
6:09
It needs to be dried out in him Lahim.
6:13
So if it's still wet. So there is a way to not have it
6:18
dried out, right? You don't want to wait in times
6:21
of the essence, wait for it to dry from Yeah, let's say wine
6:27
stamina touched it and now I filtered it and now you want to
6:32
do hadafa, You want to just rinse it and then use it for
6:34
your wine, right. While it's but it's still wet
6:38
and it's a dry out. I don't know.
6:40
It might take a few hours. It might take a few days.
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I don't know what the temperature is outside.
6:43
If it's hot, it's cold. It's moist.
6:46
Yeah. Anyway.
6:46
So anyways, so you want to use it right away.
6:49
So there is a way you can take water and makan Khan be efer
6:55
you, you clean it with ash or you rub on it with ash and then
7:02
you rinse it with water and then again you put ash on it, you rub
7:11
ash on it and then you rinse it again with water.
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And if it's wet, I mean, if it's already dry and as it started
7:21
out dry, now you want to casher it.
7:23
So it's you have to rinse it, but then it's going to, you
7:25
don't have time for it to wait to dry afterwards.
7:27
So now if it's starts out dry, you have to first start out with
7:33
water vihar ka afer vihar ka mine and then water vihar ka
7:37
afer vihar ka mine. And then you put in water, then
7:43
ash and then afterwards then you have to do the water to rinse
7:47
off the ash and whatever is there.
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So that'll speed up your process.
8:03
Believe you can look in the shop in yard.
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I believe he says if they if it was hot wine it's not enough.
8:10
You have to use to use cold water or rinse it.
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Sarah, even I think he writes and that you you should use hot
8:18
water if it became us or with hot wine, then you should use
8:20
hot water to to rinse it. OK, let's go to the last sieve.
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Ayansham yur olive got shedarak Baha goy.
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Now let's say a goy. He crushed his grapes there in
8:36
that in that press. OK, Shabba Yissel and Nagvan and
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the Jew comes to dry it makhabeed kadarko he takes he
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just he sweeps it like normal and you have to just do your
8:54
best. It is, you know, clean it like
8:56
you normally do. You, you however you kashure it
8:59
we discussed earlier, but you don't have to make sure you get
9:04
rid of every last of the pits. It's OK if there's pits there
9:09
leftover from the goy and you can and you can go ahead and use
9:13
it. Yeah, I believe zagging, Yeah,
9:20
the pits. Anyways, whatever particles are
9:22
there, you don't have to worry about removing all of them.
9:26
And Taz points out there's not a problem of aim of Adlin Ester
9:31
Lakhatkhila because we say aim of Adlin Ester Lakhatkhila when
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you have you have a choice and you want to be.
9:44
But if you are doing your best, you do a sweep job and then some
9:48
of them stay behind. You don't want them there.
9:51
You're not trying to leave them there.
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But you don't have to drive yourself crazy.
9:56
Just do what's normal and that's good enough.
9:59
And that's not a problem of aim of, but it's 100%, whether it's
10:04
shisha or shishim or it's Atam, they've gone whatever however
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you want to learn, it's 100% Batao.
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And the humor of Khazal, of Emma Bata and Esther le Khakila is
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whatever's normal. You know, if you can pick a
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queen, that's not that's not that's not true.
10:22
Don't put in Esther on purpose, but here you, you swept it and
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it's left behind. You don't have to worry.
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OK, I just want to do a quick sum up.
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We discussed, we actually did discuss most of the points, but
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just a quick run of Sherry casps.
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There are quite a few sources out there.
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I will just point out to you and we're going to see this as far
10:53
as traditional sources, that's where I wrote it down.
11:00
Traditional sources was an egos Moshe.
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So he discusses it in forget where I I quoted it before.
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Sorry, I just realized I forgot where it was, but there's a
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couple places. I think it's in the middle of
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Cisco Olive of your idea. And then also in Khelik Gimel of
11:25
Euridea is Euridea Kheli Gimel and there it's around Tedvab
11:30
Yudzayin over there. He has a couple where he
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discusses splendid whiskey and OK, this is where it is.
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Yeah, some of the best in Euridea are so there, He says
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even with wine Mamish wine, it's mutter blended whiskey with a
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little bit of wine mixed in and as long as it's Buttil Bashisha,
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it's 100% mutter. We discussed that and if you
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look in what? So that was so that was mutter
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with non kosher wine mixed in with whiskey, blended whiskey.
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Was this the way he presented the Shyla?
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So yeah. And it was not and the actual
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wine was put in and it was not Batal Bashishi.
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It was Batal Bashishi. I was like 1 to 40.
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So it's and so there he writes it's mutter Meekaradin and
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presumably Sherry casks, right? Casks, barrels that were soaked
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for more than 24 hours. Maybe it's for six months.
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Whatever the Matsias is with wine, that's what we're
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discussing. Wine casks from Stam yenam.
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We often call them Sherry casks. That's referring more to a
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particular type of wine, but it's the same halacha, same
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thing. And presumably it should be the
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same halacha, although we'll see it could be a bit more.
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He does say though it makes sense for he says clearly it's
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much 100% but that's but he does also say it makes sense for some
13:07
for a bottleneck fish to be machmer.
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It doesn't say you're supposed to be.
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Sometimes he has that expression.
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He says more like it makes sense and I forget his exact
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expression. You can look it up and breathe
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Yitzhak or Menhas. Oh, I think I don't know why I
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wrote that it's inhaled Bet see if he writes that it seems to be
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mutter Sherry casks, but he concludes Sarah Ian.
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So I'm just sharing you two classical sources and if some
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more more modern English sources.
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So thanks for emotion. We've got, I mean, it's a
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famous, well, first you pointed out to me a technical write up,
13:57
which is useful by Ruben Luton. And then there's a very famous
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article that's about 100 pages written by Rabbi Akiva Niehaus
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from Chicago Kolo. And so there he has discusses a
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lot of the things in depth. I'm not going to give a full
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summary on all these articles obviously, just but I'm going to
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sum up the main points so we understand.
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And in the headlines, Volume 2 has a nice sum up.
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So what I'm going to do is I actually wrote 2 little
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summaries. I hope I don't end up because I
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wrote it twice. I hope I'm not going to be too
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redundant. But OK, here we go.
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So we learned based on kuf lamidzain si iftalid, it would
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mashma that it's mutter la khatkhila to pour, to use Sherry
14:52
casks with, not to put wine in there, but to put whiskey or any
14:58
mashkim. All right.
15:00
So that would be at first glance, the way you read it,
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that would be what you read. However, the Shah does point out
15:08
important from the Shahs. He's from, from the Gemara.
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He says that's only a cry, that's only you can use it like
15:15
a khila if that's the bottle lying around and that's what you
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want to use. But using Sherry casks for
15:21
whiskey is not Vyakry, It's Vyas.
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You're doing a business out of it.
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You're you're you're they're purchasing it and it's for a
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long time that cannot be called vyakry.
15:35
OK, so you can't use a Lekhatila.
15:37
All right, let's assume that, but let's say Bedi avid, right?
15:42
There's an issue of Aimovati and Esther Lekhatila.
15:45
So that is one of the points of agencies.
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One of the reasons why they don't want to put a hash Kaka on
15:54
Sherry casks is because of the concept of once they're putting
15:58
the hash Kaka on it, it might look like or it might be under
16:02
the category of AM of Eileen Isser la Kahila.
16:05
There is if because now it says they're looking as if now it's
16:11
done for a Jew. OK, very good.
16:17
But I'll point out there's an interesting taz in in Nisogya
16:23
that points out a, we do not say Ayn Mvathi and Isser la
16:28
Khatkhila when you're dealing with Bleus from Mclee Bitsone.
16:33
So according to the taz, the Hashqafa agencies shouldn't have
16:36
a problem. Obviously they want to be more
16:39
Mahmoud than the taz, but that's just OK.
16:43
That's the issue of just to throw out the inviting the
16:47
Khatkhila. Now normally the distilleries
16:51
they're not doing it, they're not asking you and they're not
16:54
asking you permission and they are doing it primarily for non
16:58
juice. So really MIE Caridina should
17:01
not be a problem for a consumer based on Aimovatlin Ester la
17:05
Khatila. You know, Kafe Agency can do
17:08
what they like, but it's and I understand, but as far as a
17:12
consumer, it shouldn't be an issue.
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It's it's done already. It's it's, it's already been
17:19
done. There's no isser.
17:20
They got an isser. La Kapila Goy did it for
17:22
himself. It's not shy.
17:27
Someone else pointed out to me that nowadays many distilleries
17:31
or some distilleries, they actually look to purchase Sherry
17:35
casks that are have wine in there from kosher wine.
17:38
So it it wouldn't be a problem. I don't know, but it wouldn't be
17:42
a problem to at least have a it would obviously make more
17:46
Mahajan, no question, and it it would and to be able to say all
17:51
the Deus and it would help to get a Ashkaka on it.
17:53
So it's just an interesting. OK, now, so we said so in and in
18:01
and in that Cholkanar. Why do we say it's mutter?
18:04
Because it's either because it's Tam Leithgam or the the Tam we
18:08
learned that inside already or it's Tam is battel, either
18:11
Bashisha or Bashishi. That's if by everyone agrees
18:17
Batal Bashisha by water. So then the question is Makloka
18:21
Shakhtazen is it by Shahar Mashkin?
18:26
Now I'm going to just you know, I just have it written down.
18:28
So I'm just going to say it would seem according to simple
18:33
Kali of soccer, normally the way we follow Alaka, at least
18:38
according to most opinions, me Ikaradin Sherry casks are going
18:42
to be mutter because we see that in order for it to be aser,
18:48
you're going to have to rely on several mahlokas and you're
18:52
going to have to go the khumra on in on more than one Mahlokat.
18:56
And normally we say svek sveka lekula, not lekhumra.
18:59
And we're dealing with stamyenam, which is only in
19:04
Esser Darabanam again this year. There are banana are important,
19:08
but for Kali Upsak of how you pass and it is it is an isser
19:11
darabana. And even according to the
19:13
Chauhanarath Stan minam might be Azerbaijan Nah, but it's still
19:16
going to be Suffolk darabana. Other reasons why it might be
19:22
mutter is because some point out there is actually no Tom of
19:28
wine. Actually there happens to be a
19:33
debate if there is a difference in taste and even among experts
19:39
there's a, it's a question mark obviously depends on each
19:42
whiskey. So it's a question if there is a
19:45
taste there at all and if only some of experts can taste the
19:50
difference. So do we call that a Tom or not?
19:55
So that's one issue. Others point out that there is
19:58
actually no Tom what there's tasting.
20:01
I think I saw this quoted in Shlomo Miller's name.
20:05
There is no actually, even the ones who say there's a taste,
20:09
there's no taste. It's a smell and aroma and, and
20:13
Andrea and there's there's no isser of, of Rea.
20:17
It's and because it might affect the flavor, which affects the
20:20
taste indirectly, but that's not that's not the real Mamish Tom
20:24
of Yine. Also, some say it could be
20:26
you're not tasting even if you taste the difference, you're not
20:29
tasting the taste of the wine, but you're tasting the wine has
20:34
a chemical effect on the on, on, on the barrel.
20:39
And then that that difference is the barrel, the chemical effect
20:43
or whatever is done to the wood or whatever the material is
20:47
that's going to affect the wine. So you are tasting a difference
20:51
maybe but but not but not. But the taste is really more
20:55
from the chemical or the barrel versus the wine itself.
21:00
Now, if that has any ramification La La, I don't
21:02
know, because usually we don't, you know, we don't follow things
21:06
that you can't, can't see, you know, microscopic, I mean
21:10
breakdown in molecules. So that's again, that's just
21:13
it's odd. OK, Now chances are it is Battel
21:22
Bashish, even Bashishi, although it depends, but nega the KLIPA
21:29
right? If you only have to be battel
21:32
Bashishi nugget the clip of the barrel.
21:35
So then it usually is again depends, but usually is, and
21:41
certainly it is. If it only has to be battel
21:43
Bashisha. The only the only problem is the
21:47
Shah who holds I'm actually going to get to the side of
21:50
Humras. It's it's really a problem.
21:53
Sherry casks, according to the Shah, if you hold of a couple
21:59
kumras put together, I don't mean like Stama Kumrah, but I
22:02
mean like Mahoka Saposki. And you go to Kumrah in this
22:05
way, but I mean Mika Ardin. According to the Shah, it's not
22:11
just the Kumrah, it's Mika Ardin, but you're going to fall
22:14
on the side of Kumrah miko. So according to the Shah, it's
22:17
two issues. You have to hold that.
22:19
It's not battalbashisha, Shahramashkim, and you have to
22:23
hold that. This is a bit of a Hiddish
22:26
according to the Shah. No, it's true that he's not a
22:30
Dasyaki. I have just for fun.
22:33
It's the the Khosma Khokhmas Adam, the Ketzer Shalkhanar and
22:37
the Imre Ish. They all hold that any time you
22:40
know for sure, wine, wine cask, Sherry, cask wine was there for
22:45
24 hours. Now it's not battled but cleep,
22:48
but it has to be battled the entire thickness of the cleep.
22:51
So that but then you're going to have a problem for Sherry casks.
22:55
But you have to hold it that you have to hold that both
22:58
Shahramashkem and is not is not battle the shisha like water and
23:03
that the whole thickness of the clear combining 2 svekas, 2
23:07
suffix and mahlokas. Just on the issue of 24 hours,
23:11
if that's if it's if that's enough.
23:13
So for example, the Piscrechuva quotes the Hakam Svi who argues
23:17
he says doesn't matter and it is the Beshat Shalkhanarath that it
23:21
doesn't matter if it's there for 24 hours, you only need
23:24
Kadeklipa. But to us or Sherry casks, you
23:27
have to assume, no, it's not Battel Bashisha and you have to
23:30
assume it has to be Battel Bashishi and it has to be
23:33
against the entire thickness of the clip.
23:35
But so the Hakan Svi is is maker Al Mahana Frye and the Khazani
23:39
Shikrelev Yadihuda and the Taz, they're all arguing on the Shah.
23:44
So that's let me just keep in mind.
23:48
So it's interesting the Berahaitif, if you look on a we,
23:52
we read it, we read through it and our berahaitif in
23:55
Kuflamenzain, he says, I don't believe the Shah will hold up
23:58
both Kumras together. So which is different than
24:02
Robbie Niehaus's conclusion, but it's on, I think it's on
24:08
Kuflamenzain Dalid I think, but it's in the area.
24:12
So that's just important. OK.
24:15
Could be other reasons why it might be Mako is if they rinse
24:21
out of boiling hot water, that's irritation.
24:24
Again, I don't know. I'm not saying they do that, but
24:25
I'm just saying if they do another, I'm and also usually
24:30
I'm assuming for the first fill, the first time they use the
24:33
barrel, it's less than 12 months.
24:36
And again, sometimes it could be 12 months.
24:38
You know, they have to transport it, make it this and that.
24:41
And certainly if it's a second fill, you don't know which fill
24:44
you're getting. Sometimes your whiskey bottle
24:46
might tell you, but sometimes you have no idea if it's the
24:48
first time it's used for the second time.
24:50
If it's the second time, we learned after 12 months, it
24:53
becomes mutter. So it'd only be a problem.
24:56
Even if we say it's a problem, it'd only be for the first fill
24:59
and it could be most whiskey out there that has Sherry casks is
25:03
second fill or more because they they reuse them.
25:09
Also, sometimes, you know, it might tell you the bottle, but
25:13
sometimes the Sherry, the whiskey that you're buying, that
25:15
Sherry casks, it's a combination.
25:17
It's a blend of let's say three different barrels.
25:20
Some are Sherry and some are not and often only a small 10 or 20%
25:24
to Sherry. So even there I'll be Niehaus is
25:29
Mako. He says it's very then then it's
25:33
but though, because you add up then then you're adding up
25:36
mostly non Sherry barrels and then it's not a problem.
25:40
Also, sometimes they get burnt out charred casks.
25:44
Sometimes they'll tell you, sometimes they won't.
25:45
But they can also use chart casks.
25:47
So the chart casks they do, it's a level of Lebun, which should
25:52
work certainly for if it's only us or could they clipa if it has
25:58
to be kasha through and through, the outside probably doesn't get
26:02
hot enough. But so it depends if you have to
26:05
kasha, if you're if you're holding, you have to kasha,
26:08
could they clipa or all the way through?
26:09
All right, this I said already. OK, I think we're about to
26:24
finish. So I'm just so anyways, just to
26:27
secure also some of the reasons to be mock.
26:29
We basically just said you need maybe it's not Bertel, you need
26:33
the whole clique. It's not Bertel Bashisha, it was
26:37
what else? We basically said all this
26:40
already. And so then another reason to
26:45
possibly be a Mahmer, just to point out is if at the end of
26:49
the day, you still have Tamayan, if you can, if you could, if you
26:53
actually could taste the wine and it's done Avi de la Taima,
26:57
it's done for the purpose of flavor.
26:59
So then it could be even if it's Shishin Connect, though, it's
27:02
it's a problem. No, there is an opinion.
27:08
It said Khazuta the the colouring, maybe the wine is
27:12
there for the colouring and it affects.
27:15
But we learnt Alaka is you don't look after Khazuta.
27:18
That would just be Ahmed to be Mahmir for that idea.
27:23
There is it's maybe you can rely on laboratory tests, but shat
27:26
Alaka is always we don't we don't rely on that.
27:29
We have our khali psak and even those lab tests, you have to
27:33
realize you have to take it with a grain of salt because they
27:35
might just be measuring perhaps, let's say the measurement of, I
27:39
don't know, a grape, but doesn't mean that all the alcohol in
27:43
there doesn't also have more what we would, what we would
27:46
call an ISR of yayin. So the lab tests are very
27:50
sketchy. I wouldn't rely on that one.
27:52
But that is something that's brought out there, I think,
27:57
right? And it could be that the reason
27:58
why they enjoy selling Sherry casks and using them is not for
28:03
the actual flavor, but it's a marketing gimmick.
28:06
So again, it's every wine, every whiskey's different.
28:08
But it could very well be that it's just for the aroma or just
28:11
for marketing or, or to get cheaper barrels because now
28:14
they're used. It really depends on them at CS.
28:17
But it's very possible that there's no time, as we already
28:20
mentioned. Fine.
28:23
I think that pretty much covers most of the points.
28:26
And I think we'll conclude here and we'll do Akum later, OK?