Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 240 ~ 50 Shades Of Gray

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Ep. 240 ~ 50 Shades Of Gray · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:12
Everything is going to hell down here in Decta, and don't come with my
0:25
dad. We take bad bad, and don't come with my dad. Here
0:33
is your holeside, w y the don't come of find we take back brown.
0:45
Then don't come and find here your holeside will rip hell to the Yeah,
1:08
what's up everybody? It's me. It's me, that's right. The
1:12
trip will be big bad vib here with you. Otherwise known as Rob Clark
1:19
for another exciting edition of the Lone Gumming Podcast. Its episode number two hundred
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forty Who forty wow, who forty crazy. So today we're gonna be talking
1:38
about some things that was brought up on the last Quick Hits. And look,
1:45
people, if you listen to this show and you are not currently subscribed
1:49
the Quick Hits, a news and notes podcast on the JFK Assassation that I
1:57
do with my buddy Doug Campbell from the Dallas Action podcast, and you are
2:05
severely missing out. Okay, So if you're not already subscribed, just turn
2:12
this shit off right now. Turn it off. Go to where you listen
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to your podcast and search for Quick Hits. Find it, subscribe, go
2:23
back and listen to all past forty five episodes and we've done together. You're
2:30
missing out if you're not paying attention to that show. But just in case
2:34
you're not, because I know we get new listeners all the time. I'm
2:39
going to be talking about something that was brought up by a listener to Quick
2:43
Hits named Andy Bridge House. And we're gonna be talking about a little deuced
2:46
Coop, a little grig coop, and some other various vehicles associated with the
2:52
assassination in this episode. But before we do, let's hear a word scrutiously
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Silk City loves you. No, we have the buddy Joe has ordered so
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they might hook you up to so you can represent the dragon baby, Yeah,
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the fire breathing dragon. So in this episode, actually when the last
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Quick Hits episode, we had it in our listener email section, which is
5:44
at the very end of the show. So some of you may have missed
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it if you tuned out earlier than that, which is I don't know why
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you would, because the email section of that show is basically one of the
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best parts of the show. So you're an idiot if you're tuning out before
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you hear listener emails. That being said, um, we had a listener
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right in about a little great que right, so in of itself doesn't really
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mean much. There is an obscure phone call into a radio show by a
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little old lady named Wilma, who I'm going to play for you right now,
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so check this out. Let's go to our final caller with you,
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Alex, first time caller, Hi there, Hello, Yeah, go ahead
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to please. I am Thelma, and I leave one hundred miles from Balls
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of Laving in Bell and I had my car part behind that exit apostle,
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looking yeah, I saw the cume we had a very happy paragraph was no
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bows action. And now let me ask you please, because that rifle that
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they said od Bay used to kill Kennedy was apparently left up there your thing
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you thought someone else was a high powered rifle. Okay, tell me what
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happened? Then? Okay, I'm my car and there's a grave, the
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colored old one previous tremorse car that mass. When there's a man with a
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felt head on with a wide man and he had on a suit, he
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had black hair and real heavy eyebrows, and he had looked at me kind
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of dirty. Well about that time police car come and told this man to
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move, and who you didn't move right away? And the police got out
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of this car and I know later to get it and he told him who
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said, I said move that car? Well, then this man was in
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this old great car, who what right on rand and went round the big
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building that was across the street from me, went there the way, so
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they must have made it back then anyway, this let me let me ask
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you this. I like to go ready to hit the hour. Here did
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you say this could have warned to make their lam or anybody else? I
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haven't told anybody because I didn't want we didn't worked old or I haven't worked
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in and I didn't want to get caught. And I saw the man,
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and uh I could tell you how all right, I want to? All
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Right, So there you haven't either Wilma or Velma the lost sexier. Her
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name was Vilma, you know, like some Scooby Doo. Although she sounds
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in her eighties at that point, so that's sure how sexy she was then,
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but she may have been sexier earlier in her age. Um. But
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in and of herself, this is probably just some other Yeah, I'm trying
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to insert themselves into the story. Right of the assassination. You know,
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we have several people who claimed we have seen people run out the back of
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the depository with the rifle and all this jazz, and different different vehicles getting
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in certain different vehicles, and this, that and the other. Right,
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So the story from Velma doesn't, you know, really add too much or
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take away very much from the story in and of itself. But as which
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his listener Andy Bridgehouse pointed out, and kudos to him for finding some corroboration.
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We have from an article from October to twelfth, nineteen sixty four,
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entitled The Other Witnesses by George and Patricia Nash. Okay, this curious kid
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bet So, in general, the article is trying to lay out a lot
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of these other witnesses that were ignored by the Warrant Commission for whatever reason.
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Okay, So they first have Frank Wright, who lived in a ground floor
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apartment on Tenth Street, about half a block east of the murder site.
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And he states, and I quote, I was sitting watching television with my
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wife. I was sitting in a chair next to the door. I wasn't
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but two steps from the door. I heard shots, and I knew it
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wasn't backfires. As soon as I heard them, I went out the door.
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I could see a police car in the next block, and it was
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toward the end of the next block. I could see it clearly. The
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police car was headed towards me. It was parked on the south side of
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the street. In other words, it was parked across the street from our
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apartment house. I saw a person right by the car. He had fallen
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down. It seems as if he had just fallen down. Maybe I saw
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him as he had just finished falling. He was on the ground, and
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then he turned over face down. Part of him was under the left front
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fender of the car. It seems to me that I saw him just as
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he hit the ground. I saw him turn over, and he didn't move
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anymore. I looked around to see what had happened. I knew there had
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been a shooting. I saw a man standing right in front of the car.
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He was looking toward the man on the ground. He stood there for
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a while and looked at the man. I shouldn't tell who the man was
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on the ground. The man who was standing in front of him was about
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medium height. He had on a long coat and had ended just above his
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hands. I didn't see any gun. He ran around on the passenger side
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of the police car. He ran as fast as he could go, and
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he got into his car. His car was a gray, little old coupe.
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It was about the nineteen fifty or fifty one, maybe a Plymouth.
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It was a great car, parked on the same side of the street as
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the police car, out beyond it from me. It was heading away from
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me. He got in that car and he drove away as quick as you
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could see. He drove down Tenth Street away from me. I don't know
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how far he drove, and after he got into the middle of the next
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block, between Patton and Crawford, I didn't look at him anymore. I
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looked at the car where the man was. I looked to see what had
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happened there. About the same time as I came out, or maybe a
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little while after, a woman came down from her porch. She was at
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the house about three or four at bores down from the intersection of Tenth and
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Patton. The house was on the same side of the street as the police
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car. Just as the man in the car pulled away, he came toward
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the police car, and then she stepped back. I heard her shout,
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oh, he's been shot, throwing up her hands, and then she went
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back up towards the house. There was no one out there except me and
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that woman when I got there, except for the man I described earlier.
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I couldn't figure out who did the shooting. I didn't see a gun on
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the man who was standing in front of the car. There wasn't anyone else
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but the man who drove away and the woman who came down from report.
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I was the first one out. I knew there wasn't anyone else there at
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all. There wasn't any time at all until the ambulance got there. By
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the time the ambulance got there, there were maybe twenty five more people outside,
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and then after a while the police came up. After that, a
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whole lot of police came up. I tried to tell two or three people
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what I saw, but they didn't pay any attention. I've seeing what came
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out on television and in the papers, but I know that's not what happened.
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I knew a man drove off in a great car. Nothing in the
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world's going to change my opinion. I saw that man drive off in a
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great coupe, just as clear as I was born. I know what I
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saw. They can say, oh, they want but a fellow running away,
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But I can't accept this because I saw a fellow getting in a car
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and drive away. We have no way of knowing how this investigation could have
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ignored right, whether his memory is accurate, or whether a plausible explanation for
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the mysterious man in this car might be a passer by unwilling to be a
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witness for our purposes here. Such speculation is besides the point, which is
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simply why didn't this account come to the Commission's attention. The question becomes all
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the more relevant when it is realized that it was a call from missus Wright,
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who looked well, that was responsible for the ambulance being dispatched, and
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the police had her address. I was sitting in my apartment watching television with
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my husband. We had just learned that the president was shot, and I
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was sitting in a chair with my back to the intersection of tenth in Denver.
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My husband was sitting across from me. I heard shots and I immediately
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ran to the window. I heard three shots. From my window, I
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got a clear view of a man lying there on the street. He was
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there in the next block. I could see there was a man lying in
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the street. I didn't wait a minute. I ran to the telephone.
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I didn't look in the book or anything. I ran to the telephone,
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picked it up, and dog zero. I said, call the police,
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a man's been shot. After that, I went outside to join my husband,
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and it wasn't but a minute until the ambulance got there. The operator
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took me the right's address, five o one East tenth Street and called the
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police. The police noted there was a shooting at five oh one East tenth
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and pushed the buzzer, connecting them direct line to the Dudley M. Hughes.
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The Dudley Hughes Funeral Home is the central ambulance dispatching point for southern Dallas,
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at either handles calls directly or calls other funeral homes in the system that
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covered the area. Dudley Hughes Junior, the dispatcher, took the call from
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the police. He filled out an ambulance call slip with the code three nineteen,
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which means emergency shooting and they address five oh one East tenth Street.
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He put the slip into the time clock and stamped at one eighteen pm November
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twenty second in the space mark time falled. Since the location was just two
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short blocks away, he told one of his own drivers, Slayton Butler,
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to respond. Butler and Eddie Kinsley ran down the steps, got into the
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ambulance, and took off with the sirens screen. Butler radioed his arrival had
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the scene at one to eighteen pm. Within sixty seconds of leaving the funeral
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home, he remembers that there were at least ten people standing around the man
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lying on the ground. It was not until he and his assistant pulled back
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a blanket covering Tippet that they realized the victim was a policeman. Butler ran
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back to his radio to inform headquarters. The radio was busy and he could
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not cut in. He old made eight to no avail and went back to
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Tippet. The officer lay on his side, faced down, with part of
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his body under the left front fender. Butler and Kensley rolled him over and
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saw the bullet wound through tippets temple. Butler told us I thought he was
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dead then, It's not by position to say so, but we got him
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into the ambulance and we got going as quick as possible. On the way
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to the hospital. I finally let him know it was a policeman. The
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record chose the Butler all into the funeral home at one twenty sixth to say
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he had reached the hospital, despite the fact that the ambulance was dispatched to
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five O one East tenth. No statement was ever taken from either of the
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rights. Missus Wright remembers that a man who did not identify himself came around
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two months after the president's assassination and talked with her for a few minutes.
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He took no notes and did not ask her to sign anything, did not
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speak to her husband, and did not ask if he had seen anything unusual.
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Clayton Butler ambulance driver says he was questioned by the Dallas police when he
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arrived at the hospital, but not since then. Others never questioned include Butler's
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assistant Eddie Kinsley, Dudley Hughes Junior, who dispatched the ambulance, and the
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managers of the apartment house facing the murder site. All these potential witnesses were
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in agreement on the lapse of time between the shots and the arrival of the
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police, which is in direct contradiction to missus Helen Markham's statement. It's worth
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noting, in connection with Markham's reliability that the lineup which satisfied satisfied the Commission
19:07
as fair in its procedure included only three persons besides Oswald, from Markham to
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choose from two eighteen year old and a twenty six year old Mexican man.
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Oswald, who had appeared on television before I hit this lineup, was the
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only one whose face was hunt and bruised. In the light of our own
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findings in the Tippit's slaying. It appears quite possible that Markham came on the
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scene only after hearing the shots, and without Markham there is no one to
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say precisely what happened between Tippitt and Oswald's. So there you have that little
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tidbit which when taken into consideration with Delma's phone call. All right, so
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let's take a look at some other vehicles around Daily Plaza. But first let's
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clear up. Let's give a couple more voices to some things going on to
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the rear of the school book depository and what could have possibly been going on
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back there, What did Velma see if anything. So we have a statement
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of a witness, James Richard Warwell and this half of David, made in
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November twenty third, nineteen sixty three. The twenty year old white male says
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he looked up into the building after hearing the first shot and saw the barrel
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of a rifle sticking out of a window. While I was looking at the
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gun, it fired again. I got scared and ran from the location.
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While I was running, I heard the gun fire two more times. Ran
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from Elm Street to Pacific Street on Houston. When I was about one hundred
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yards in a building. I stopped to get my breath and looked back at
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the building. I saw a white male five eight to five ten, dark
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hair average weight or light dark short or jacket opened down front. No,
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hat didn't have anything in his hands. I'm out of the building and run
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in the opposite direction from me. So apparently James Worrell, twenty year old
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guy was out in front of the school book Depository building. He saw or
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heard the first shot and saw the barrel of a rifle sticking out of a
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window, and while he was looking at it, it fired again and he
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got scared and he ran from the location. So now he's running down the
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west side of the Spool Book Depository, in between that building and the dal
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Text building and proximately a hundred yards. He stopped running to get his breath
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and turned around and looked back at the building, and at which time he
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saw a white male five eight to five ten, dark hair average weight for
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height, nark, short or jacket opened down front. No, we had
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didn't have anything in his hands, come out of the building and start running
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in the opposite direction from me, which would have been towards main street of
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Houston. So was there time enough, you know, for the time sequence
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of the shots, for the alleged assassin from the sixth floor to make his
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way across the entire building, hide the rifle behind some boxes, skippity dude
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down the stairs, and exit out the back of the building, all in
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the time it took this guy to run a hundred yards. Now one hundred
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yards, it's of course the size of a football field, and depending on
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how motivated you are, you know, it's it's likely you can you offer
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a pretty good speed there, especially if you thought somebody was shooting a gun.
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So how long does it take to run? Who's seen? Bolt ran
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one hundred yards in twenty sixteen and nine point two three seconds. So even
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if you double that for a slow white man, I mean, this kid
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was still twenty okay, It wasn't like we had a sixty year old guy
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running the hundred yard dash. But even if you double who's seen Bolt's time
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to eighteen seconds, I highly doubt that whoever he saw there would have been
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the alleged assassin. It was likely someone else, if he saw anybody at
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all. If I don't think there would have just been enough time for that
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all to take place according to Warril's timeline. Then we have this fbi' a
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mirandum from March six sixty four at nine pm today, James Romack contacted this
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office in regard to an article appearing in March six sixty four edition of the
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Dallas Times Herald. This instant article by Darwin Payne concerned one James Warrell,
24:48
who claims to have observed an unknown man room from the back door of the
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school Book Depository building immediately after the assassination. Now Romax stated he worked and
25:00
worked for at the pertinent time the MKT Railroad on the loading docks immediately behind
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the school book Depository. Romax stated one November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,
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that he was eating lunch on the loading dock behind the school book Depository
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when he heard three shots. Immediately afterwards, he saw a Dallas policeman running
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along the east side of the school Book Depository north toward him. Romac allegedly
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told the officer that he would watch the back of the school book Depository,
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and the officer went on back towards the front of the building. Romax stated
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that subsequent to hearing the three shots, he did not leave the area of
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the loading dock and was able to observe all activity behind the school book depository
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in doing it. So Romax stated he definitely never saw anyone leave by the
25:52
back door. I loved the school book depository as alleged by Warrell and the
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above mentioned newspaper story, So that also negates Velma's story as well. So
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believe what you will, folks, Believe what you will. All right,
26:14
let's get into the more famous story of a vehicle dealy Plaza. Yes,
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folks, I'm talking about the white Nash rambler that Roger Craig saw pick somebody
26:29
up to look the hell of a lot, likely Harvey Oswald, one Elm
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Street, immediately following the assassination. Now, if you head over to JFK
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Assassination gallery dot com that's Robert Unger's photographic record site of the JFK assassination,
26:48
and look at the William Allen's series of photographs taken in Dealy Plaza, you
26:52
will see coople different purtin photographs this situation here, and among them, most
27:03
notably are the photo of Buddy Walters with an unidentified FBI agent kind of looking
27:11
in the ground near the manhole cover on the side of Elm Street. And
27:17
what's interesting about this photo is not only does it appear that they are chasing
27:23
a bullet in the ground there, but the big Hurts clock on top of
27:29
the school book Depository is prominently seen. And it's just twelve forty And in
27:36
the background you can see Elm Street and the schoolook Depository, and you can
27:41
see vehicles on the street, and interestingly enough, across the street you can
27:47
see Roger Craig booking in that direction. There is various photos out there showing
27:59
a white's one unquote Nash Rambler one Elm Street is a blurry photo of the
28:07
individual that Roger Craig states that he saw run down the grassy area beside the
28:12
school book Depository could get in this vehicle. Now, according to Roger Craig,
28:19
heat states that after returning to the Dallas Police headquarters. Now, of
28:26
course, Roger Craig was a deputy Sheriff's deputy, not a Dallas Police officer,
28:34
but he did help participate in the search of the sixth floor of the
28:37
school book Depository. And this, of course is in nineteen sixty three,
28:48
I believe in nineteen sixty one, he had won like Sheriff's Deputy of the
28:52
Year or something. Outstanding citizen, you know, highly respected, honest guy
28:59
of very hard working, good at his job, nothing but accolades by his
29:03
boss, Bill Decker. Actually, um, so, why would this guy,
29:11
Roger Craig seemingly want to start a false rumor or a lie about something
29:19
that he supposedly saw that day. Now, he says that he went to
29:25
the Dallas Leeds head quarters, to the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, and that
29:32
Fritz was interrogating Oswald, and that he pulled Fritz to the side and said
29:37
that he saw this guy get into a white Nash rambler on Elm Street and
29:45
leave the area, and that on hearing this, Oswald said, I told
29:51
you I did, and then state something like, well, that's missus Paine's
29:55
vehicle or station wagon. Don't don't try to bring her into this, or
30:03
something along those lines. Now, in subsequent testimony to the Warren Commission,
30:11
Fritz would deny that this conversation ever took place. He says Craig and he
30:18
never talked to Craig, and then Oswald never said anything like that. So
30:26
again we have the conundrum of why this outstanding, respected, decorated sheriff's deputy
30:33
would make something up about the worst day in Dallas history. When the president
30:40
has murdered in broad daylight, in the middle of the street in front of
30:44
him, Why would you make something like this up. It doesn't make sense.
30:52
So maybe he didn't. But let's get into the story a little bit.
31:00
So, as I mentioned before, his boss, Sheriff Bill Decker,
31:03
on December of the thirteenth one questioned by the FBI about this viz. The
31:08
deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, in his opinion, is a reliable employee who is
31:12
completely honest in his belief that he saw Oswald getting into a white Nash rambler
31:19
immediately after the shooting, and even though Craig is obviously mistaken in his belief.
31:25
Decker said that he had discussed this identification with Craig and pointed out to
31:30
him that witnesses corroborady by the transfer found in Oswald's possessions showed that Oswald left
31:34
the assassination scene on November twenty second by a city bus and a taxicab.
31:42
Craig stated a Decker that he was aware of all that and knew about this
31:47
I knew that this indicated that Craig was mistaken in his identification, but he
31:52
still saw someone getting into a white Nash Rambler and still believed this person was
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Lee Hervey Oswald. So despite being told by Dallas police said hey, dummy,
32:07
we know that Oswald got on a bus and then into a taxi and
32:12
made his way to his roomy house. You obviously did not see him get
32:17
into a Nash Rambler, Yet Craig still vehemently believed that he did. Also
32:27
that this alleged Nash Rambler of the craigsall can be seen in the Weaver polaroid
32:34
MAKEE two forty three, Richard Trash pictures of the Pain in the Railroad Yard
32:38
in Murray Photos and number five and number six, and the Bell film seen
32:45
in Groden's The Killing of a President age sixty eight. There's also a new
32:52
Rambler station wagon seen in the documentary film Four Days of November as the ambulance
32:57
leaves Parklin Hospital with the love Field, all of which are very interesting.
33:05
So in nineteen ninety three, I believe let's see here. Dave Perry,
33:17
a somewhat lone nutter from Texas, wrote an article entitled the Rambler man shitting
33:25
on Roger Craig, and so I'm gonna read a couple of things out of
33:37
here that are interesting. Author and researcher Penn Jones Junior briefly reviewed the episode
33:45
in his nineteen sixty nine paperback Forgive My Grief three based twenty nine, Jones
33:50
asserted Craig insisted from the day of the assassination that he saw Oswald race down
33:54
the grassy area and get into a station wagon like the one owned by Ruth
34:00
Verving. Curiously, this important allegation that the Pain vehicle might have been used
34:05
in the assassination lead dormant until Jones published the story. Now, Wow,
34:14
what exactly did Greg say? Because obviously missus Paine Pain didn't own a white
34:27
Nash Rambler station wagon, at least not that I'm aware of. So what
34:34
exactly did Roger they say? He says, as I have earlier stated,
34:45
the time was approximately twelve forty when I ran into fellow deputy Buddy Walters.
34:50
Traffic was very heavy as Patrolman Baker, assigned to Elman Houston, had left
34:55
his post, allowing traffic to travel west on Elm Street. As we'd scanning
35:00
the curb. I heard a shrill whistle coming from the north side of Elm
35:07
Street. I turned and saw a white male in his twenties running down the
35:12
grassy knoll there in the direction of the Texas school Book Depository building. A
35:19
light green Rambler station wagon was coming slowly west on Elm Street. The driver
35:24
of the station wagon was a husky looking Latin with dark wavy hair, wearing
35:31
a tan windbreaker taped jacket. He was looking up at the man running towards
35:37
him. He pulled over to the north curb and picked up the man coming
35:40
down the hill. I tried to cross the Elm Street to stop them,
35:45
excuse me and find out who they were, but the traffic was too heavy
35:49
and I was unable to reach them in time. They drove away, going
35:53
west on Elm Street. I ran to the front of the school Book Depository,
36:00
where I asked for anyone involved in the investigation. And was a man
36:05
standing on the steps at that time, and he turned to me and said,
36:08
I'm went to secret service. He showed a little interest in the persons
36:13
leaving the building, However, he seemed extremely interested in the description of the
36:17
rambler. This was the only part of my statement, which he wrote down
36:22
in his little pad. He was holding point. Missus Ruth Payne, the
36:25
woman Marina Oswald lived with in Irving, Texas, owned a Rambler station wagon
36:30
at that time of this same color. I had said that Dallas police Chaptain
36:40
Will Fritz had said to Oswald, this man saw you leave. Oswald said,
36:46
I told you people I did. Fritz then said, now take it
36:51
easy, son, We're just trying to find out what happened. And then
36:53
to Oswald, what about the car, which Oswald replied that station wagon belongs
36:59
to him. The pain don't try to drive her into this note, Fritz
37:04
said Carr station Wagger was not mentioned by anyone but Oswald, so and his
37:12
statements to the Warrenant Commission. David Bealand asked Craig if there was anything of
37:15
importance that had not been discussed more in Volume six, page two seventy one.
37:22
Mister Craig, No, except for the fact that it came out later
37:27
that missus Pain does own the station wagon and it has a lugged track on
37:31
top. And this came out, of course later after I got back to
37:36
the office. I didn't know about this. Buddy Walters bark brought it up.
37:40
I believe they went by the house and the car was parked in the
37:45
driveway. Jones's article depended on Craig's confirmation to support the Ramblers story if,
37:52
however, where was Craig's proof The Ruth pain owned the Rambler station wagon let
37:57
alone, the same color, and Craig was the next sheriff and likely had
38:00
extensive investigative skill. But I never claimed that he was a student of the
38:05
Kennedy assassination. So did Ruth Payne owning Nash Rambler station wagons, Well she
38:17
didn't. She actually owned the nineteen fifty five Chevy Nomad. Uh. But
38:25
you know, to someone of the untrained guy who wasn't that familiar with um
38:31
differentiating hard descriptions. You know, a lot of these station wagons, whether
38:37
it be a Ford or a Buick, or Slemoth or a Nash or Sword
38:45
where Chevy. You know, a lot of these stationwagon models look the same,
38:50
much in the way most minivans looked the same. Um, it's just
38:52
a common design of the time, you know, in someone not too familiar
39:00
really couldn't probably tell a difference between them Afford minivan, a Chevy minivan or
39:05
a Plymouth minivan. You know, they just know that, hey, that's
39:07
a minivan, or that's a station wagon, or it looks like a nas
39:14
Rambler, if that is the brand you're familiar with. So you know,
39:20
I'm not too worried about that part of the description. But the color thing
39:23
has me a little worried because we go from white the light green, which
39:28
is of course a big difference. So how do we get from white to
39:31
light green? Well, Craig explains it this way. I said the Rambler
39:37
station wagon was light green. The Warrant Commission changed it to a white station
39:43
wagon. So Dave Perry, curious, went back to Craig's deposition of November
39:50
twenty five, sixty three, and concluded the Warnant Commission could alter the testimony.
39:55
I would have had to go to extreme lengths to change. The document
39:58
obtained three days after assassination by the FBI, in which it appears that Craig
40:06
made the statement that he also noticed in automob be able to traveling west on
40:10
Elm, which youthield was a white nash Ramo station wagon with the Lugga dragon
40:15
on top. So that seemed to confirm that Craig originally thought the car was
40:22
white and still couldn't understand what color was so important. Why isn't necessary for
40:25
the station wagon to be green rather than white. So when miss Paine describes
40:34
her automobile for the Warrant Commission, she states, quote, it is a
40:39
fifty five Chevrolet station wagon green kneading paint, which we bought secondhand, and
40:45
it is in my name. So again, in order to kind of tied
40:53
this vehicle to Oswald, it's got to be the same color, you know.
41:01
But again, implying that somebody picked Oswald up in the middle of the
41:10
street right after the assassination would definitely imply that there was a conspiracy, because
41:19
it takes more than one person to make a conspiracy. Of course, Ben's
41:28
Jones Junior, Penn Jones Junior. Consider the points of Roger Craig that Craig
41:35
insisted from the day of the assassination and he saw Oswald race down the grassy
41:39
area and get into a station wagon like the one by missus Ruth Paine of
41:44
Irving. So that is Dave Perry's attempt to deep bump to Roger Craig Nash
41:53
Rambler story, which is all fine and good if that's what you're trying to
41:59
do. Um. You know, you can pick a lot of things apart,
42:02
but we know that the Warrant Commission wasn't adverse to taking things off the
42:07
record and even downright altering a witnesses testimony um to be either slightly different or
42:15
vastly different i e. C. Victoria Adams. So with something like this
42:24
where it's hard to discount just out of hand the testimony of a very respected
42:34
sheriff's deputy, you know you can't this outright call him a kookie kook,
42:40
but you can't alter things a little bit to make in situations h let's probably
42:47
not even a word. Um. His intimations um not credible i e.
42:55
Tying the station wagon to pain, but making an entirely different color what you
43:01
said white? Where is this green or light green? You know how you
43:07
know you can't possibly have seen the same vehicles, so that really doesn't matter
43:13
much. Along the same lines of changing the length of the rifle or the
43:15
sack that came into the rifle, or the TSBD that day by Uel Frasier,
43:21
you know a lot of these little things are changed and altered a little
43:23
bit just to make some things questionable. What was Craig telling the truth?
43:37
Well, in certain instances we can point out that Roger Craig was flat out
43:39
full of shit about certain things such as and stamp right there on the barrel
43:46
seven point six five miles er. Yeah, sorry, mister Craig, But
43:52
Mauser never stamped seven point six five miles er on their barrels. That's just
44:01
a fact. So how you can sit here and say definitively that that's what
44:08
you saw is either a bold face lie or you're really, really, really
44:15
wrong and misremembering things. So is he lying about the Nash Rambler ship too,
44:24
Well, it would appear that he is not, due to the testimony
44:31
of some other witnesses. So let's hear from a few of them, shall
44:36
we. And it's important that these are as early as they are. So.
44:45
From November twenty three, nineteen sixty three FBI document a Special Agent in
44:52
Charge Dallas from Special Agian Earl Hailey, mister Roy Cooper route one of his
45:00
Texas furnished following information. At twelve fifteen pm this date he related in an
45:07
incident about a Nash Rambler being seen leaving the building in elm and Houston one
45:12
eleven, twenty two sixty three. All right, so he is furnishing this
45:15
information to the FBI unsolicited. Less than twenty four hours after the assassination,
45:22
which is important. He was driving his car and following his boss, who
45:29
was driving a Cadillac. They were coming south on Houston and had to wait
45:38
for the parade, and the incident happened shortly after they reached the intersection.
45:44
Cooper observed a white male somewhere between twenty and thirty years of age, wave
45:47
at a Nash Rambler a light alert as it pulled out and was ready to
45:53
leave from Elm and Houston. The station wagon pulled out real fast in front
45:59
of the Cadillac driven by his boss, and an employer had to stop abruptly
46:02
and nearly hit this nash Rambler. Cooper could not see who was driving the
46:07
nash Rambler and could not furnish any further description of the man who jumped into
46:12
the car. They drove off at a rather fast rating speed and went down
46:16
towards the overpass forward oak Cliff. Cooper was following his immediate supervisor and mister
46:24
Marvin Robinson, who was taking his Cadillac home to oak Cliff. Cooper was
46:30
then to pick up Robinson and they were going to go back to their employment
46:32
in Garland, Texas. It in his car. He advised that Marvin Robinson
46:37
resides on Marcella Street, so they have this lead that they're going to follow
46:43
up and talk to mister Marvin Robinson, which they do same day, March
46:51
twenty third, sixty three. Marvin Robinson advised that approximately between twelve thirty one
47:00
on the afternoon of November twenty second, while traveling west on Elm Street,
47:05
he crossed the intersection of Elm in Houston Streets, shortly after the assassination of
47:09
President Kennedy. Robinson stated that after he had crossed Houston Street and was in
47:15
front of the school Book Depository building, a light alert Nash station wagon suddenly
47:22
appeared before him. He stated, this vehicle stopped and a white mail came
47:28
down the grass covered incline between the building and the street and entered the station
47:31
wagon, after which it drove away in the direction of the oak Cliffe section
47:36
of Dallas. Robinson stated, and he does not recall the licensed number one
47:40
the station wagon or whether or not it even how to Texas license plate.
47:45
He stated further that he did not pay particular attention to the individual who entered
47:51
the station wagon and would be unable to identify him. Robinson was unable to
47:55
furnish any pertinent information concerning his assent or President Kennedy. Well, I'd say
48:02
that's pretty pertinent information. But you see how they discredit people who corroborate other
48:09
people with proof of a possible conspiracy to assassinate the president of the United States.
48:19
What were they the only ones to see this mysterious Nash Rambler in Daily
48:22
Applause? Well, apparently not so. Richard Randolph Car, another questionable in
48:36
quotes witness on February the third, nineteen sixty four, was reinterviewed c terrifying
48:46
information previously furnished on January fourth, sixty four. So he goes to this
48:53
thing and he states that I, Randolf Car make to follow an involuntary statement
48:58
to Paul Scott, who is a fied himself to me as a specially agent.
49:00
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And he goes on and tells
49:05
about it, how he was looking for work and then that morning he dropped
49:07
his wife and kid off at the Parkland Hospital and then went downtown to look
49:13
for work, and he saw that the new courthouse was being constructed on the
49:17
corner of Houston Commerce Street. So he went there and he starts walking up
49:22
the building. Well, when he got to about the sixth floor, ironically
49:28
enough, that's rang out in daily plasm, and he stated that he witnessed
49:35
a heavy set individual who was wearing a hat, a can workdoat and run
49:39
room glasses. Not in the end window next to Houston Street, but I
49:44
believe it was in the second window over from Houston Street. I continued up
49:49
on the stairway I'm in so later curdy noise, which I took to be
49:52
the backfire of an automobile or a firecracker. So he goes on through all
49:57
this stuff right, and decides that maybe he should go down and check out
50:05
what's going on. He didn't actually talk to the supervisor there at the new
50:08
construction site, and he says, while I was on Houston Street near the
50:13
Commerce Street intersection, I saw a man who I believe was identical with the
50:19
man I had earlier seen looking out the window of the school book Depolitory building.
50:23
This man, walking very fast, proceeded on Houston Street south to Commerce
50:28
Street and then east on Commerce Street to Record Street, which is one block
50:32
over from Houston. This guy, this man got into a nineteen sixty one
50:37
or sixty two light gray Rambler station wagon which is parked just north of Commerce
50:49
on Record Street. This station wagon, which had Texas license and was driven
50:54
by a young Negro or he really can man, drove off in a northerly
51:05
direction. So we have here another Rambler station wagon, another heavy set either
51:17
Latino or need grow man. Possible to leaving the scene and then coming back
51:27
to pick someone else up. So interesting if you believe what Richard Randolph far
51:36
has to say about things. But a lot of people discredit him as a
51:40
non credible witness, so it's interesting. Nonetheless, it seems like an awful
51:49
lot of people knew about this damn Nash Rambler a month after the assassination.
51:54
News must travel fast. And then I came across this other interesting document from
52:04
the Womac Insurance Agency and Hammond, Louisiana. And it's a letter addressed to
52:10
Clay Shaw thirteen thirteen Dauphine Street, New Orleans, Louisiana. We'll played your
52:24
daddy was in my office this morning and returned the above policy covering liability on
52:30
the nineteen sixty two Gray Rambler station wagon. I agreed to hold up cancelation
52:37
of this policy until I had word from you that you had to arrange for
52:40
coverage with your New Orleans agent. Just for your records, the automobile is
52:46
described as being in nineteen sixty two Gray Rambler Ambassador four door station wagon.
52:53
If you plan to go ahead with your plans to transfer the title or this
52:57
automobile to your daddy's name, which I believe is a good idea, it
53:02
will be necessary to complete the forms required by the Department of the Revenue protect
53:07
with Hammond Motives this morning, why your daddy was in my office and they
53:13
advised it could be best to be done by your coming to Hammond in person.
53:20
As you know, they are holding the title to the vehicle and it
53:22
would be very simple for you to come aside the original title that they are
53:27
holding and then apply for a certificate of title in the name of G.
53:31
L. Shaw, your daddy. Up to this writing, I have not
53:36
had a request from our company to cancel the physical damage coverage, But if
53:42
you want your agent in New Orleans to go ahead and issue this coverage for
53:45
your daddy. Let me know and I will cancel the physical damage policy.
53:52
Be sure to drop me a note when your agent has issued the liability coverage
53:55
so we can process cancelation of our policy. Enjoyed seeing you last Sunday.
54:00
Wink wink. I appreciate yours and your Daddy's confidence in my abilities, and
54:06
I'm sorry that there was no other way to work this. To work out
54:09
this insurance is a problem. Sincerely, a TV woman, junior of the
54:15
Marquette Cancel d Company and the Womack Insurance Agency. This letter is dated,
54:24
ironically enough, March twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four. Huh so to Pire
54:32
clay Shaw under Gray Ash Rambler prior to March of sixty four that he was
54:40
transferred over into his daddy's name for some reason. Very interesting, folks,
54:49
very very interested. Next up, we have an interview with Richard Magison,
55:04
who we've talked about on this episode before. He was a friend of Lawrence
55:09
Howard and some of these anti castro MARPs in Los Angeles. And this is
55:16
an h SCA memorandum from Kenneth Klein to Robert Tannenbaum. This interview of Richard
55:25
The Magic Man Madison took place on May seventeen, nineteen seventy seven, in
55:30
the office of Madison's lawyer, mister Music. The office is located in Irvine,
55:37
California. President, We're Madison, mister Music. Clifford Pratt, who
55:43
was a friend of Madison, Cliffsenton, and myself, Les Kline. Madison
55:49
states that he was a very close friend of Lawrence Howard from sixty to sixty
55:53
three. He originally met Howard when they both remember the United of All Works
55:58
Union and We're together during a strait. He states that Howard was not discharged
56:05
from the Army, but received a quote special retirement mentioned from the army.
56:10
He suggested this might be because Howard insinuated he was involved in some kind of
56:15
covert operations for the army. He also states that Howard became friends what with
56:22
the General whilst in Korea, and suggests this might have been General Walker.
56:29
The states facts that set forth in the memos applied to Donovan Gay by mister
56:35
Music. In addition to the facts in the memo, he states that when
56:39
he asks Sexts later revealed to be William Seymour, what his name was,
56:45
Seymour said, Lee Oswald. It should be noted that no mention that this
56:54
is made in the memos sent to Donovan Gay. When asked why he did
56:59
not state this act in that memo, he replied that he only recently remembered
57:02
it. He states that Howard has a daddy, a father, Lawrence Howard
57:08
Senor. He used to live at Loveland Street, Fontana and now in Bernardino.
57:15
He states that Howard's father worked for twenty years for Kaiser Steel. He
57:20
states that when he talked to texts Bill Seymour, he asked him whether or
57:23
not he worked for the CIA, and he said the text indicated that he
57:28
did work with the CIA, and showed him a piece of paper with the
57:31
name of E. H. Hunt and a phone number on it. He
57:36
said that one of the men working in the building was named Platt, and
57:38
later he learned this man was actually named Lauren Hall. He says that Howard
57:44
went to Mexico at least four times in sixty two and sixty three. He
57:49
states that when Howard came back to California after the end of Operation Mongoose,
57:53
he said that they were going to do quote something very bad. They will
57:59
make the US and Cuba in quote. He stated the men who worked in
58:04
the building disbanded in the winner of sixty two. Howard did not work in
58:07
the building, and after bringing Madison there, he did knock come there again
58:13
to Magist's knowledge. He stated that he investigated and found that Howard did not
58:17
show up for work for a number of days prior to the assassination, insinuating
58:24
that he was in Dallas, Texas on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
58:30
Howard had worked at a manufacturing plant located at an intersection known as five
58:36
Points in East a Homes, which is in the city of Whigyear. The
58:40
plant makes Taylor frames. Now you're like Rob, you know, okay,
58:47
why are you reading this? Well, here he go, he stated.
58:52
In nineteen fifty nine or sixty Howard purchased a light blue or green nash Rambler.
59:00
It was registered to him or his wife. He couldn't remember his wife
59:05
worked for the phone company at the time, and he does not know whatever
59:07
happened to the car. So it appears that Lawrence Howard, who fits the
59:17
description of a heavy set Latino or Negro, also with a light green nash
59:25
Rambler flame as Missus Paine h apparently had identical cars, So that's interesting.
59:38
Oh show And speaking of General Walker, HSCA Documents one eight zero one zero
59:52
zero seven six one zero three six zero, dated March thirty one, seventy
59:59
eight eels some investigation of a Rambler station wagon in connecting with General Edwin Walker,
1:00:06
part being observed at his residence on April tenth, nineteen sixty three,
1:00:12
the same day someone took a hotshot. It's a general. This of course
1:00:19
leads us to the photograph of a Nash Rambler in General Walker's driveway, found
1:00:27
in the possession of Lee Harvey Oswald. Now this photo in particular is interesting
1:00:36
because it showed that the license plate had been meticulously cut out and removed from
1:00:43
this photograph. Who wouldn't want to do that? It would appear that possibly
1:00:52
this Nash Rambler that was seen and photographed in General Walker's driveway in April sixty
1:01:00
three, maybe it could be tied to something or someone we I've already talked
1:01:07
about here today. Interesting, very very interesting. The committee had traced a
1:01:17
light colored fifty nine station wagon seen at a Garland airstrip at that time to
1:01:27
the one noticed a General Walker's house, as well as the railroad yard west
1:01:32
of the book's depository. I only remember the twenty second nineteen sixty three.
1:01:37
They also founded to be connected to a fifty nine station wagon bought in Houston,
1:01:42
Texas in February March of nineteen sixty three. Why is this important,
1:01:51
Well, there was a one page FA document on which the HCA probe UH
1:02:00
found and it involved a flight plan filed by David Ferrier Ferry on April eighth,
1:02:10
nineteen sixty three. Apparently he flew three passengers listed on this invoice or
1:02:20
manifest as ideal Lambert and DS from Hammond, Louisiana, to Garland, Texas
1:02:31
from Yas, Texas. So there's all that died at one pm, all
1:02:39
very very interesting stuff. That's it for another episode of the loom and podcasts.
1:02:45
Following along at home one, Twitter and TikTok at the loon gum In
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seven Facebook page, search for the Long gum In podcast and on YouTube sich
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the loon gument podcast channel. Make sure to subscribe and comment, like getting
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notified when new episodes drop, and feel free to leave her review Wherever you
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are listening to this fine show at and make sure you check it out Quick
1:03:14
hits jam K News and Notes podcast or whatever the fuck titel of it is.
1:03:22
You know, quick hits, kind of tamper. Find it, search
1:03:25
it and enjoy Shepherd of Fire if they sing us out with their sweet sweet
1:03:32
hits and spiracy. It's all about the assassination. Check out the words people
1:03:37
and rock the fuck out. Yeah, be one, tell you he be
1:04:15
the bel can tell you the biggest ben that you Chay Cain getting the little
1:04:30
boy waiting. All was so bar the tromper rock and be gone the tromper.
1:04:53
The thing I do was gong and they got some song. Tell me
1:05:04
tell you, I tell you the big thing that you champain wayside wide situation
1:05:45
of my rain from me. He boken of him, We got him again
1:05:50
and he fell down and back nat of his card. One was on him
1:05:56
head and the Kennedy cried on, only don't believe one by one the the
1:06:25
biggest matcham kid? Ye ain't there more? Away? I'm aware always funding
1:06:53
as he listen