Latest / The Alighted Way / Dragons, Monsters, and the Hero’s Journey
Transcript
- Intro 00:00 Welcome back to The Alighted Way we are about to jump from the frying pan straight into the flames of a different fire in this episode where Janelle and I explore the western perspective on dragons and the hero's journey to slay them, the show is about pushing limits into the unknown, discovering who we truly are, and celebrating the moments that make us feel alive. So let's get into it. Janelle 00:31 I love when stories are turned on their heads and told from different perspectives. One of my favorites is the true story of The Three Little Pigs. It is a laugh out loud kids book. I read it to my child by John Scieszka and Lane Smith. What ensues is a hilarious retelling of the three little pigs from the perspective of the misjudged Big Bad Wolf who innocently attempts to obtain sugar from each of his three pig neighbors. He sneezes, accidentally killing the first and second pigs, as well as destroys their straw and stick houses. The third pig in the brick house refuses to give any sugar and insults the wolf's grandmother, outraged, he unsuccessfully attempts to break down the front door of the third pig. The pig police arrive quickly on the scene where he is arrested and sentenced to prison for the two deaths. The wolf claims that the news coverage for the events was highly exaggerated, leading to his big bad reputation being cemented. This is an apt introduction for dragons as well as it depends on whose lens they are being viewed. From one of my favorite quotes is from Lanny Taylor, “It is a condition of monsters that they do not perceive themselves as such. The dragon you know, hunkered in the village devouring maidens. Heard the townsfolk cry monster and looked behind him”. In Italy, there is a monster park built in the 1500s which is filled with statues. So who was considered a monster at that time, a monstrous fish head, Medusa, a giant fighting another giant. There's dragons, there, Sphinx, elephants, tortoise, ogres, King of the Underworld, a winged Pegasus, a winged fury, which is like a serpent tail with a winged women, a woman with a lower body of a snake, tail split in two, similar to a mermaid of the sea, which is also displayed. So the way Westerners know dragons is mainly as monsters. Where would monsters be lurking? Consensus is they could come from anywhere really, surfacing from the depths of the seas, winged sky creatures descending or they are already here on land and have been hiding. So you better sleep with one eye open. 03:12 Let's start with the origins of the word dragon live. Science explains the word Dragon comes from the ancient Greek word draconta meaning to guard or watch all of the old Draco draca words mean Dragon, huge, sea serpent or sea monster. The next question that comes up for me is, have dragon bones ever been found on Earth? The quick and dirty answer is not, per se, what is the closest thing to a dragon that has ever existed in the dinosaur realm that has been found so far the largest flying reptile is the pterosaur. Sadly, not fire breathing Close, but no cigar. Are scientists still finding weird, looking, unidentified skeletons of animals on earth, absolutely are they actually dragons? Consensus is no no fire breathing one has been found to have what it takes to breathe fire and protect the lungs. You need something completely different in the anatomy and physiology department, like it would need its own special, contained area where the fire is. So let's delve into the hero side of the journey. I am only going to dive deeper into some major stories. Most people have heard something about saints or humans who then became saints Norse and Greek gods, each in their own right, partook in defeating subduing and actually killing some dragons. I think it's important to hear a cross section of stories from around the globe to begin with, what exactly were they killing or defeating? Like what qualifies makes a dragon a dragon? Dragon, what were they up against? A dragon has four legs and a pair of wings, whereas a Drake has four legs but no wings. So without the wings, they definitely take on more of a large reptile vibe. A Wyvern has back legs and wings. So Dragons come in different sizes with different features and colors too. They can be multi headed, which significantly increases the challenge of killing the beast on your own. So who is doing the slaying? I think it's on the spectrum. On the one end, they are usually depicted on a horse. If a person is in an army or is rich, they have armor, wielding a sword, carrying a shield. On the other end, you have someone that might just have a spear or arrows. They're barely dressed, so definitely no armor. Although with a fire breathing beast, I would want to not be in a metal suit, I don't think it would protect me much. In many depictions, they usually have the dragon on the ropes, on the ground, belly up, with a sword poking in them. To be fair, in most depictions, it does not look like a fair fight. The dragon looks like the size of a large dog compared to the horse and rider. 04:58 This is the case with the legend of St George slaying the dragon, as the story goes. George was a Christian soldier who arrived upon a village where a dragon was terrorizing the villagers, extorting livestock, treasure was being taken from them. When they ran out of both they started sacrificing up a human once a year. This arrangement worked until it didn't. What was their hard No, when a princess was chosen as the next offering, George rescues the princess, defeats, but does not kill the dragon. Instead, he ties the princess's waistband around the dragon's neck and has her lead it back to the city. There he promises to slay the dragon if the people will embrace the Christian faith. This they agree to do, and then he kills the dragon. George rapidly rises to hero status, but was not made a saint until after his death. We'll continue with the Christianity theme, although initially this took place in a heavenly war between Archangel Michael, who is a sword wielding protector and warrior, and his legions of angels who successfully cast out of heaven the devil, Satan, represented by a dragon. So he and his fallen angels were cast down to earth, so defeated, subdued, imprisoned and contained on Earth, but not killed. So this may be where the saying hell on earth comes from. It is fascinating how stories evolve. As there is a Christian festival called Michaelmas where this story is reenacted, except Michael actually goes through with it and kills the dragon. In the reenactments, Michaelmas is celebrated September 29 and is a festival honoring this Archangel Michael, and is often depicted as a battle between good and evil. So Michael, as a leader of Heaven's Armies, is seen as the defeater of evil. But by all accounts, Satan lived and was not slain. He remains at large on Earth today. 08:08 Thor, on the other hand, from Norse mythology, who is Odin's son and wields a hammer, and he's very handsome, and Chris Hemsworth brought him to life on the big screen. You can't talk about Thor without mentioning Loki. So Loki had three non human children. One of them was a snake, and Odin loki's adopted father, having heard prophecies about this snake, decides to be proactive and throws the snake into the deep sea, basically imprisoning it. The serpent grew so large that its body encircled all of Midgard or earth, and it was able to, and did grasp its own tail in its mouth. The symbol of a serpent or dragon eating its own tail is very important, not just in Norse, but in Greece, Egypt, many other cultures. So we will discuss it further in a future episode. It was said that when this snake released its tail, Ragnarok begins, which is the final battle that would end in the Earth's destruction and give way for its eventual rebirth. Very apocalyptic vibe, where the sun and stars darken, earthquakes ravage the world in this battle royale who was to fight this behemoth snake, none other than Thor. The time comes when, bam, the tail comes out of the serpent's mouth and slams down, and so the end of the world begins. The snake leaves the sea rolls across the land, wreaking havoc. In its wake, the destruction starts. Lots happens in between in the finale, in comes Thor, the god of thunder, and his mighty hammer, and the snake and him both charge towards each other. Thor crushes the serpent's head, but the snake strikes with venom as well. Thor then takes nine steps and dies, death by poison. The snake dies too. So I would call it a tie so ends Ragnarok. 10:35 There are three other dragon stories from Greece that warrant a mention, starting with Perseus, who famously cut off medusa's Snake haired head. So he's not an Olympian God, because he had a mortal mum at best, he was a half god, but he's a definitely illegitimate son of Zeus, who was the chief god of Greece. He used Athena's shield to see Medusa only in the reflection, because everybody knows, anyone who dared look at Medusa directly was turned to stone. It still would have been quite a feat for him to behead her. Afterwards, he continued to use her head as a weapon, due to it retaining this ability, eventually he returned the shield, gave medusa's Head to Athena, the goddess of wisdom, then placed the head on her shield, as she was a warrioress. So, who is Athena? Athena is a favorite daughter of Zeus. She does not have a mother, apparently, as when she was born, she came out fully formed out of Zeus head, even today, after all this time, Medusa is still recognized as a monster. The next story involves Zeus defeating Typhon, a fearsome beast to behold. For sure, some say that it was a dragon like creature, but that's not even the half of it. He's described as a humungous serpent with the torso of a man and legs of a coiled snakes and a multitude of dragon heads that could breathe fire. Zeus used his thunderbolt to eventually subdue the monster. In various images that I've seen, the creature looks half human on top, half serpent on the bottom, with wings like more like a human looking head, not the multiple dragon heads that other people have talked about. It was a close call, though, as at one point Typhon overwhelmed and incapacitated Zeus. But with the help of two others, ultimately Zeus defeated Typhon and was then promptly imprisoned When Zeus placed a mountain on top of him to seal him in in response, typhoon caused all sorts of havoc. There was volcanic activity within the mountain, and then he sent storm winds across the lands. So definitely not dead, just contained. This would have been a very different story had the dragon critter prevailed. So what were they fighting about? According to Wikipedia, Typhoon attempted to overthrew Zeus for the supremacy of the cosmos, the victor is usually the one that gets to tell the tale of how it all went down. I also find it interesting that Zeus could not hold his own in this fight and required help. One on One is fair. Three on one is not okay. 13:47 Last, but certainly not least, speaking of prophecies and possibly Typhons relative we are still in Greece, Apollo is next up as the favorite son of Zeus, illegitimate, of course, at Delphi there was an Oracle cult of the earth Goddess Mother, Gaia, who was likely the original deity to be venerated at the site. So why was Delphi such a special place? Well, it was seen as the naval center of, minimally, the Greek mainland, but it could also be deemed of the world, as determined by Zeus, who sent two birds around the world, and they met and collided at Delphi. So it was known as the place where heaven and earth met. The Oracle of Delphi was famous worldwide. The Oracle just means questions are asked and answers are given. It was one of the greatest pilgrimage sites in the world where ancient pilgrims brought their deepest questions for 1200 years, under just Apollo, over 500 Oracle statements were delivered by the Pythia, who were the women who gave the famous oracles. They were usually middle aged peasant women. And over 50 years old, specially selected and trained for this role. They practiced sexual abstinence and fasting before giving oracles. So it had an ancient guardian, Python whose death was foretold by Apollo in the womb. Apollo was just a child when he killed Python with golden arrows. So Python was a huge she Dragon, serpent that stood in his way of taking over the Oracle and sacred spring. Apollo came to Mount Parnassus to find her fleeing from the peak. Python sought refuge at Delphi but Apollo relentlessly pursued. He placed the omphalos stone on top of the exact spot where he slayed the dragon. The stone has a carving of a knotted net covering its surface and has a hollow center. There's a replica one there now, but the stone was seen as a very sacred, holy object. So in the inner chamber is where the omphalos stone was located, at Delphi near the Oracle called Pythia, named for the Python slain by Apollo. Only the Pythia woman could enter this area. So after committing murder, Apollo literally had blood on his hands and had to be purified of his sin on the island of Crete before he could return to Delphi. Another version says Apollo had to be purified, so Zeus himself performed the purification rights on him, either way, the Oracle shrine finally was handed over to him by Gaia, Mother Earth, only after he was purified and cleansed. What I find notable is after all that Apollo never gave the prophecies. So really you had to kill a dragon because you decided you wanted to take over a spring and Oracle, as there were oracles given before Apollo took over. So this episode provides you a basic idea of how Dragon slayings went down, George and Apollo fully committed to the act and had dragon blood on their hands that was a waste of blood. Instead, they could have had a bloodbath like Siegfried, a prince, did after killing a dragon. When he bathed in the dragon's magical blood, it made him invincible. There are a few stories of slayers being cursed after killing a dragon. People fear things they don't understand, and the automatic response is that it must be a monster, and the monster must die so that people can sleep better. There's a quote by Gilbert K Chesterton that says fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed. Joseph Campbell talked about the hero's journey. A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder, fabulous forces are there, encountered, and a decisive victory is won. And the last quote by Jodi Picoult is, “There's no way to explain to a child that the line between good and evil isn't nearly as black and white as a fairy tale would lead you to belief that an ordinary person can turn into a villain under the right circumstances, that sometimes we dragon slayers do things we aren't proud of”. Colleen 17:51 Hi, everyone. It's Janelle And me, Colleen, and we're just going to be giving a we're just going to chit chat about this last podcast about the hero's journey in regards to the dragon. And I just wanted to ask Janelle some questions. We're just going to go back and forth. It's nothing really formal or anything like that. It's something fun. And I have questions. And I'm sure you might you out there listening might have questions as well, so feel free to leave them in the comment section or email us. There's that too. Janelle, this one, this last podcast was a lot. It was a talk about, kind of like a summary of how dragons were viewed by the people in the past. And I loved how you started off with how it's the definition of a monster and how we can turn it on its head. And I love. That it's it's so true. It's like dragons have been thought of as monsters for so long, but in my mind and your mind, they are not, they are not, they are not. And the one thing that got, that I really took from this, though, was the idea of stories. How are we? We are creating these stories around these creatures. So what would you say? How did you choose the ones that you chose, the stories you chose for that podcast? Janelle 20:32 Well, first of all, it was more like choosing some that people have heard before. You know, so that it they're part of our culture anyway. You know, it was interesting. I was doing research for my next trip, which is Malta and George. Is all over Malta, like George and the dragon slaying. Oh, no way. I'm like George. What are you doing there? Colleen 20:58 Did you find out why? Janelle 21:00 It's, it's like a very Christian bend, and with Malta's history of how it all went down, you know, Malta has been very helpful through many different periods of history. But the Knights are a big part of that, you know, like they created some of the major places and some of the major chapels and so, like, there's a definite night flavor to it. So I found it fascinating. But basically, some of them are more well known than others, depending on which culture you come from, you know, like so in Greece, people would definitely have heard some of the Greece ones, for sure. And it was also just interest on my part, in that I actually, when I was in Greece, I actually went to Delphi and experienced it. So that would that was cool, too. Colleen 21:55 So did you actually get to go into the well? Like, near the well? Like, How close were you able to get to it. Janelle 22:02 It's kind of blocked off now the actual spring, so it's got like a big grate in front of it, and they have a replica of omphalos, you know, like all of that's all in the museums now, Colleen 22:16 okay, yeah, makes sense. Janelle 22:19 But they had like, lots of stories there, right? Like, yeah, there was, like, write ups and other things. And I had done research before I went to Greece. So it's like to put the two together. It was, it was good. Colleen 22:31 Sounds like, it's very interesting how he, Apollo, never really did anything with it after he got it. Yeah. Janelle 22:40 What's interesting is he actually asked Pan, who's, who's another Greek God, to learn divination from. But I would say he was a hobbyist at best, Colleen 22:57 Apollo, who knew Apollo, the hobbyist divinator. That's pretty funny. So the other question I have then is, you mentioned about Michaelmas. Where does that happen? Janelle 23:07 Well, it was interesting because my daughter was part of the Waldorf School, which is German based, and every fall, the Grade fives recreated Michaelmas with like, the slaying of the dragon. Colleen 23:25 So, I mean, the kids are getting for Janelle 23:28 elementary every year, we would be witness to the Grade fives doing that. Colleen 23:36 Oh, interesting. Okay, so it's something that comes from Germany, then is that it's Janelle 23:41 Based on Rudolf Steiner. So he was a very interesting guy. He's wrote a lot of books. He was alive and well, you know, and started sort of some of the first schools in Germany for children, and then that crossed over into creating a Waldorf school in Calgary. So, oh, cool. Colleen 24:04 Okay, yeah. Like, I mean, the little the Grade fives are just, you know, slaying dragons. That's sad. Obviously, we have a bias here on the show. Janelle 24:15 So, yeah, I mean, it was just part of it. But there's lots of other places in the world where they celebrate Michaelmas, for sure. Oh, okay, wow, that was my own personal experience with it for six years. Colleen 24:32 It's funny. I've never even heard of it until this till working with you. So all these things, neat things about dragons popping up, I uh. So the other thing was about Medusa. So I'm a fan of Medusa. Okay, yes, me too, yeah. So and talking about switching the story around, I've heard that she was really screwed in this process for this month. Janelle 25:00 Sure. We actually ran out of time because I had like, a whole schwack to say about Medusa, but there wasn't enough time in this episode. So yeah, definitely there's, there's a lot more to Medusa story. Yeah, definitely the other side of it was, was that she was a priestess in Athena's temple, and there was a rape that happened by Poseidon, who is considered to be Zeus, brother and the god of the sea. Yeah, nothing happened to Poseidon for that act, but a lot happened to Medusa, Colleen 25:40 yeah, yeah, she definitely got screwed over on that whole thing. So, yeah, I think maybe we should do a whole show on her, because, you know, we're both fans, but that's the whole thing too, where most people have only heard the one side of the story, right? Like the Medusa. You know, if you look at her, you turn into stone and stuff like that. But how did she get there? And that's the whole idea of, how did we get these stories? Where did these stories come from? How are we going to change these stories? Janelle 26:10 Yeah, that's the interesting part. Is there's definitely, like elements of truth in some of the stories, I feel and so you have to take that truth and decide how you want to see it differently. Colleen 26:25 Yeah, that's right. So, yeah, good. It's a tough job. Tough job. Yeah. The other thing that I thought was really interesting is that so some of the dragons were actually killed, and then other dragons were not typhoon, yeah. And then, like, I think that's interesting too, because if you look at the imagery of volcanoes, that's a volcano, the dragon giving off the fire and whatnot. He's still alive. That Dragon is still alive, but not free, Janelle 27:04 absolutely, yeah, and, and, I mean, like all over the world there, there are volcanoes that are erupting everywhere. I mean, you and I were in Iceland, and then we left, and then there was definitely, like, a volcanic eruption. Colleen 27:20 Oh, several Janelle 27:21 Yeah, and it's still going on on and off, the lava coming out. And firmly believe that it was dragons, yeah, you know, like creating it. So I know there's logical explanations for it all, but in those times, that's what made sense to people. Colleen 27:42 Yeah, the stories, right? And then they just, the stories just carry on and on. So but I find it beautiful. It's more poetic those stories. I mean, yeah, sure, we have all the science, and we do know everything you know we know. We do know a lot more about how all that comes together. But it's so much more poetic and so much more inventive, if you will, well, Janelle 28:04 and some of it is just plain wisdom, wisdom of of people, of how they perceived Colleen 28:12 things, yes, and how they made sense, how they made sense to them, yeah, of Their world around them. So I think that's about it for right now. So thanks Janelle for introducing us to the not so much Monsters, Monsters. And yeah, I look forward to the next one, where we're going to talk a little bit more about how dragons were more treated with a little bit more respect Janelle 28:43 the other side of the coin, that's right, you're welcome. All right, till next time. Until then, Outro There it is. There you have it. Thank you for sharing and brightening the path today. Join us next time, as Colleen and I will explore the Eastern perspective of the reverence for dragons and the wisdom that they impart. They're seen as allies, guardians and guides, rather than just mythical creatures. We will continue to share and explore more stories that may take you beyond the edge of your boundaries. We encourage you to be open and come along for the wild ride, safety first, though, so buckle up if you're interested in learning more about dragons. Janelle has created an introductory dragon course, which kicks off in February 2026 go to the alighted way.com website to register become part of our community or brood in Dragon speak, and the magic that lies within by subscribing or giving us a rating and review, new episodes drop every two weeks on Thursdays, so don't miss an episode until next time. Keep the flame of curiosity burning you.