Latest / The Captains Council Podcast / Retos del sistema de control de tránsito aéreo dominicano
Transcript
- Capt. Francisco Díaz: Good evening friends, welcome The Captain's Council Podcast. Tonight we have our guests, Captain Cristian Jiménez from Boeing 767 and Captain Hugo Minaya from Boeing 737. Tonight we about the challenges we have seen lately in air traffic in the Dominican and He with a degree in computer science from Campbell University, and also with a master's in airline administration from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, a master's in computer management from Webster University, and has been a professor of aeronautics at Miami Dade University. He has a degree in Boeing 737, Boeing 787, and Airbus 320. and we will talk about ideas or proposals that would have for how to it compared to other countries. So let's welcome our guests. Let's start with Captain Hugo Minaya, is a of the wars of Iraq and Afghanistan, a logistic of the US and has more than 6,000 hours flight and 20 years in the aeronautical and Captain Cristian Jiménez who has accompanied us before, who captains 767 with United. As always, we you that our opinions are personal and do not represent the opinion of our employer. Well, let's start with today's the challenges in air traffic in the Dominican Hugo, you who fly a lot in the Dominican Republic, with your previous and your is going up and Tell us what you have seen lately in terms the challenges of air traffic in our country. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Thank very much for giving me opportunity to in this podcast. Francisco, the most important thing for the audience to is I've been for few years now to the Dominican I started with an airline called Spirit, which I flew almost daily to the Dominican Republic. Now that I'm with United, I'm coming to... I've every week for last 6-7 months. I'm flying weekly to the Dominican Republic, Santiago, Punta Cana. So, the experience I in the country flying, let's say, at this level in aviation, especially living in the United States, I've noticed and I can see it I can compare it to my beginning when I Spirit. that the Dominican Airspace is having now a higher volume than when I was in Spirit and it is remarkable. You can see that frequencies are reaching a point of saturation in which it is difficult to communicate with the air when we start contact. If we can see the navigation it that we have to contact Santo Domingo 10 minutes before the entrance. And with that, it's getting a little difficult to enter the country with an expectation of what it's going to like after you enter what is called the Fair Boundary. It's very important to note that for a person like me, that I the country weekly, is a little bit easy for me because I already know what is from my experience. But I think that if a person who never entered the country, a pilot who does have that ability to understand or what is the expectation, can be a little difficult for him his aircraft in matter of What is the expectation? When do have to go down? What are speeds? They are dictated by the air So when you can't communicate with the center that tells you what to it's difficult to plan the approach and prepare for what's So we're having, I personally am seeing... a small problem in the saturation of the frequency, especially the way the Dominican is divided between two, Santo Domingo Norte and Santo Domingo Sur. For people who do understand, Santo Domingo Sur has the highest volume of aircraft reporting, for example, we have the Island, the Americas, the largest in country, and we have Punta Cana. an airport that think is almost there and we can verify that a little later, that it already has more or equal volume than the Americas. So we are aligning with a higher volume at that point. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Yes, Punta Cana has more traffic than the Americas. ⁓ It happened to them. the airport with the traffic in the Caribbean. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Correct. So as we can see, for the people who are listening to we are in a sector where we have two airports with a very high where the sector, which I imagine we will talk about a sector that already has to be divided, or can be that we have to look for an alternative because the controller is already controlling the approaches or routes to the air. the Americas and the routes to Punta Cana. A single controller. After they go down to a certain level, they are divided between the Americas Approach and Punta Cana Approach. But the initial there is a problem of saturation. Today, which is my second time entering Punta Cana, the last, let's say, last month, I that today in particular, There was little bit saturation in the frequency of approach to that point. And there was an air volume more than usual. And I'm thinking personally that it's because we're already entering what is called Spring Break, where the volume towards the country has already risen significantly. is already being seen in the frequency. The point of all, for you is that, it's very good that the country is having this growth, or as we can say, this renaissance of aviation, but unfortunately the infrastructure of our country is far behind reality. And it's very good that we are bringing all these tourists and all these aircraft in the country, but we have to try to speed up or... ...arrange or give more capacity to our air communications Capt. Francisco Díaz: And it's important to add that the airport in Santiago is It's an airport that has also grown a I understand that it's airport with the most flights to the metropolitan of New York, that includes Kennedy and Newark, right? From our region. is, the traffic in Santiago The authorities have been... ⁓ Buying radars, a new in the Santiago area, precisely, air Meteorological we talked about that last week. But this is not still in practical and being used, as we said. the way it should be. There are radars but they are being used correctly. And as Captain Minaya the saturation level is reaching a point where complexity and with that, maybe at some point, will affect operational This does mean that at 24 hours a day the situation is like this. You could arrive in Punta Cana or the Americas and find that there are no planes or traffic is not very saturated. These are specific of the day or week where is a lot of movement. For example, I understand that Punta Cana the airlines coordinate lot the check-in check-out the hotels. They coordinate the and arrival of the flights with that check-in and check-out so in Punta Cana, during that time period, during those check-in check-outs, on weekends, which is where generally arrive to those resorts, there is a higher And this, I understand, there is a theme with the National Control in Santo Domingo, that sometimes, during that time, there is no controller, as Captain Minaya assigned to Punta Cana, so the center's controller... has to cover the arrivals and departures from Punta Cana. So, there is a lack of staff that needs to be worked on. Captain Jiménez, Cristian, if you could give us your opinion on where, in which other countries have you seen similar You did not mention before the issue of Sao Paulo, that you similar What experience have you there? Christian Jimenez: Thank you, Francisco. Again, thank you for inviting me to your podcast. Welcome to Captain Minaya. First of all, I the public to understand that we are Dominicans. And we feel extremely proud of the progress that the country has made. That last year we records of visitors to the country, millions of visitors. And as Captain Minaya that is very good. We applaud him and we are super proud of him. But... We have to do it in a planned with the structure, so that all the air system both passengers, pilots, controllers, users of the air feel safe and that we have an effective Before entering the question you I want to say that the problem I am looking at in the conversations we have had at CAPTAS Councils and with other pilots, when you have a problem, the most important is to that you a problem. And think that's where main point of this saturation from and this issue. The IDAD is not admitting that they have a problem and they want continue to grow the system. In the last podcast we were talking about rockets that are going to increase. You already mentioned it. They know the peak of the airlines when the big arrive and leave. So why not establish a delay A system that you can't enter the country until this time. And so make a line of flights that go in line, well organized, as I in London. I know that Hugo, when you flew in 787, when you go to London, you don't even have ask. You know that you are going to a waiting before they you authorization to approach. That is guaranteed. You plan that and it is already part of your planification in your fuel. Everything is planned and that does cause any problem. That is them admitting that they a problem. Let's solve it. Let's create this system that we have. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Correcto Absolutamente. la See you. Bye. Christian Jimenez: and I think that Santo Domingo, the Dominican can adapt those things, to have a system to enter the country at peak and assign the flights specific times that they can enter. So the flights can reduce the speed to know that they will enter the country at what time. And that also helps the controller, because the controller already knows that so many flights will at this minute, but I have time between this flight, until this flight and this flight. And we all benefit from that programming. But I repeat, we must first admit that there problem. And then the big problem that comes with Dominican that they don't want to that they have a problem, that they don't want to a follow-up to a study that was by the control sectors of the amount of flights they can have per hour. and they are passing, in peak hours they are passing, so are not programming enough they are not training new controllers, which also that same study told them, if they are going grow by X, they have to hire X. The planes have grown by X, but the new do here, there is a big difference. And controllers are human beings, they can control up to a point. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Claro. Correct. Christian Jimenez: And unfortunately we don't want to controllers tired or confused or sincerely that they can't work. can't handle the number of that are in air and that's a danger in my opinion. And I've seen in other countries, but other countries they have systems of how to it. But for me that's problem that Hugo Marcos Minaya: Good luck. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Bien. Christian Jimenez: that the country has to come with the IDAC, mainly with the IDAC, understand that they have a problem and find a way to improve that, improve technology so that the controller may not have to speak by voice, that they can maybe send messages to the pilots and thus decrease the number of in the frequency so that there saturation. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Yeah. Christian Jimenez: so that pilots can communicate correctly with the controllers. And the controllers can control the pilots with direction, plane altitude, and prepare them so that they can enter the country and so simply from above to the runway without any kind bad interaction or interruption. and the pilot is prepared and programmed so that doesn't have invent things in the air that he has to do. He himself, lower his speed, prepare because they are going to leave high, because we have criteria that we have to maintain from the moment we start to descend to land, that we have to be, what we call, a stabilized But if they leave high, then you Behind the ball, right? Behind the action. When we always have to be in front of plane, not behind. And I don't know if I the question, but basically I think that if we start to analyze everything, with all the conversations we have had with the Captain's Council and with the authorities in the Dominican I think that would be the main action they have to do. First, admit that there a problem. Hugo Marcos Minaya: you Christian Jimenez: and talk to all the air systems interactives and establish a plan of action. That everyone agrees with this plan. you communicate it to the airlines, the airlines will be happy because they already have a plan, you know. And we, the users, I don't have time to fly because I, the plane I use, doesn't fly much on Sundays. But I flew on the 737 and flew a lot on Sundays because obviously my country and I stayed at my house instead of hotel, which was the best for me. but it doesn't smell like that. But when I it, yes, had those problems too. We're talking about 10 years ago. Sometimes have to take actions in front of the controller, which shouldn't be. Because we're used to the controller controlling everything. For example, if go New York, you can't do anything because they're going to tell something if you the speed without asking permission. They you something, control your direction, altitude, speed, and everything under control. So you know that they are going to you in the line for the approach and you trust them. But unfortunately, that level of confidence is not the same when we to the American because we hear the voice of the controllers that they are saturated. We that should not have given instructions, they should not have given instructions. We are late. As Captain Minagya we have to call 10 minutes earlier. Sometimes it lasts, in those 10 minutes you are not talking to anyone, but the plane continues forward and the other planes also continue forward. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Christian, and about what you say, it important to highlight, in 2020, or 2019, in the Dominican Republic, 15 million air And in 2025, 10 million in 2019 and 15 million in 2025. As we at the beginning, there been huge in the Dominican Republic in terms of the amount of transit. Of this has to do with the tourism and everything else that the government out, but at the time, the graduation of new air traffic has been minimal. Even the school where they train the ASCA, the Higher of Aeronautics, was closed for a year or two years for remodeling and recently opened. So we are far behind with this and the government must understand that the increase in air must be an increase in investment in total both in staff and in team, as in what you mention about fatigue, longer periods of rest and everything else. So now let's talk about ideas, how can we help the Dominican with this issue. Captain Minaya, technology do you that could help us with this? Hugo Marcos Minaya: Well, as Captain Christian Jiménez the CPTLC, a text could help a which Europe. ⁓ Capt. Francisco Díaz: What is CPDLC? What does CPDLC Hugo Marcos Minaya: Basically, it's a way of communicating between the controller and the plane using text. Basically, it's a communication link where we communicate instead of using voice because the more you speak, the less you can communicate. If I am United and someone from another airline talking, I can't communicate. With the text, this One sends an information via CPDLC and I know it's for me, I read it and act based on what the controller Now, one thing, Francisco, that I wanted to and I mention, it very important and I think we have to talk a little bit this topic. Look. Sometimes, the controllers don't understand what they're Depending on where you come from, can be that the communication is a little difficult based on the way I speak English. I'm saying that I speak English, but can be that I a little more to understand what's on. I constantly ask myself, what did you Please repeat it. The frequency... It's of people talking about how that happens a lot. They come from Australia, come from different parts of Europe, don't understand what the is saying, they are asking for it be and it's already causing chaos. One thing I to when I you about the numbers, about what the IDAG in terms of analysis and all the things we have to see what the of the Dominican we have to take account that if we have a capacity, count aircrafts of the hour, that does mean that we are communicating effectively. That is the problem. Communication in frequency. So that everyone understands, only one person can communicate at the same So if one pilot of my aeroline and one pilot of another aeroline and the controller wants to the three of can't speak. That's where the saturation of the frequency So using this type of solution that helps with that, to give clarity on what is necessary for that controller to with that aeroline or with that pilot and also to communicate with the sound of the... of the communication that clearly the communicates with the pilot. I think that if we start with that... Capt. Francisco Díaz: And you mentioned that have to call the Dominican 10 minutes before, before entering the information the FIIR. But not all countries request that, right? That is something that could be as And an example, let's see. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Correct. and feel. No. Correcto Capt. Francisco Díaz: Another example of how you use CPDLC or CPDLC, will put down here what it in an image, but how you use it, for example, en route. You flew the 787 and Captain Jiménez flies the 767 today. When you go to Europe, example, the Atlantic what kind of information does CPDLC you? Hugo Marcos Minaya: Well, in 787, I'm to use that more as an than the 737, the plane I fly, there were times when one left New York to his destination and the communication was minimal. was all based on what I got by text. So basically we didn't have talk to anyone, but the information arrived at the right time. and we can react faster as pilots, as Captain Jiménez our job is to always be in front of the plane, never behind. So when received that text, we reacted and the 787 has a very high that most of the information that came to I pass my instruments without having to do anything. So the reaction to make a change based on the controller wants was minimal. So that helps operational because as a pilot I am aware of everything the controller and immediately it reacts. Capt. Francisco Díaz: And another thing, you know that when we arrive at a new where we are to land, we have to collect the information about meteorology, conditions and everything else, what is known as ATIS, right? Which can be quite long, are airports where, big where it is quite long. That is also in CPDLC today, right? That one can see that. I, for example, yes, go ahead. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Mm-hmm. Correct. Look, ⁓ Something curious and interesting. When I fly with the first official that have entered the country, in our it grass cutting in progress. Since 2018, grass cutting in progress been on the air. When I... I the frequency, I listen to I'm listening to information that has nothing to do with anything, you know? It's like something that's not being updated correctly. It's like a loop in which information that is required. I, as I the country constantly, have noticed that it's something that's not so important, it doesn't look so... is significant, but let me know that you are giving importance to such important as the Ares for a pilot entering the Capt. Francisco Díaz: And, Jimenez, how would this technology We know there is a saturation What would happen now in the summer when we add the saturation issue the storms? And besides the saturation, storms, lot of So, this technology help us in that sense? And remember that besides CPDLC, we have other technologies like ADS-B. Go ahead. Christian Jimenez: Because when the 767 flying in Europe in 1999-2000, we didn't have the CPT-OC So those flights were a little more difficult because you had to make a report for the HF Which are... They don't have the same... How do it? They have a lot of feedback. And a squelch when you speak. and it the ear a lot. It's not a clear Sometimes you have to try different frequencies to get a controller because they everywhere in that area and it's a little more difficult. Now with the CPDLC you don't have to do any kind of report. When you to the middle of the Atlantic, you do to change controllers. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Bye. Christian Jimenez: a check of your cell phone, which when the controllers don't need to talk to us, they call us, a light on on the plane and you know that has to communicate with the controller. And the CPDLC is used for that. The CPDLC is used to request a change of route due to storm. The CPDLC is used to request a change of altitude, because it has to change altitude, to turbulence, or because... the flight plan requires you to the you are using more fuel, you are making the plane lighter and you can get the higher. The yes request also, for the point you asked me, Francisco, would be incredibly important for the American because the American is still one of the countries where you go and you have to ask for your flight When they are pushing you out the door, asking you for radio, for communication. If the route doesn't change, it's exchange. But if the route changes, it's exchange. Imagine 30, 40 planes leaving the same time, each one calling to ask for their authorization. Meanwhile, that could be a system where they can send that authorization to each plane. 30 minutes before taking or 45 minutes depending, you can send the authorization by CPDLC to each plane, it gives us a chance to see it, if there any changes we don't have call anyone, we can check it, put the change on the computer and see if we need more fuel, less fuel, but we are already a position where can make changes, not at last minute when you are leaving, at least what happened me, thank God, but There can be a where the center, today example, Nueva York the center was closed due to storms. So the planes have to divert on other routes. If you come from Santo Domingo and you to make that change, which will add one more of flight, and you are pushing the plane out, and you realize that, hey, don't have enough fuel for this new route, you have to go back the call the fuel, so they don't throw more fuel. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Correct. Christian Jimenez: and we are behind, imagine this, multiply it by 10, 20, 30, so it is an ineffective system. We are in 2026 and I have been flying the Dominican product since 2000. And there is money, because obviously the investment is coming in, the authorities are coming in. There is money for the investment in that infrastructure that we are talking about at the beginning of the podcast, which is very necessary. And the A10B is another very important one because it tells you exactly where the planes are, what they doing, the speed, and it gives a much clearer of what that plane is doing compared to another plane and it keeps us at farther and safer without that system. Capt. Francisco Díaz: In addition, with the ADS-B, can upload the image of a meteorological In other words, the plane can make an uplink and have it live for the planes that have that capacity and see where the meteorology is, the storm. Many times people believe that with the radars we have on board it is enough to see everything, but really one can see what the front They don't see the complete Christian Jimenez: Mm-hmm. Capt. Francisco Díaz: So for strategic change of route or decide if you going to go to the alter or not, that complete image is extremely important. Well, gentlemen, we have run out time. It been a very interesting We will have to come back. We can summarize that believe that country is doing very well in terms of the amount of tourism, in terms of growth of aviation, but that should pay attention to. to aeronautical to support all that growth of people and cargo that enters and the country. We have proposed new technology like CPDLC, text-based ADS-B, is data, data images and text, and new radars and the implementation of meteorological with the Air Transit Obviously, also need increase the number of mainly radar and thus have the number of people needed for these moments of saturation. A few last words, Captain Minaya, to close. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Nothing. It's something that is very good for country number one. The country is growing in its own way. Dominican is at a very good That creates many opportunities for every Dominican who one day dreamed of becoming pilot. And he had to leave his country. Now the new generation is... enjoying something that is very well. So, for the public, for everyone who listens to we are trying to protect that. We are trying to protect the future of the Dominican We are trying to protect the airspace and also protect the legacy of the Dominican who have found a new route for to their dreams. So, whoever listens to we here to guarantee a better for the Domestika. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Captain Jiménez, a few words to close. Christian Jimenez: As Captain Minaya all, we are very proud of progress of country, very happy. One of missions of the Captain Kansas is obviously to support the future pilot and ensure that Dominican is safe and grows in a safe As we be obviously things that can be done better and we are giving opinions and ideas of our experience as pilots. think combined we have more than 100 years of And only by giving our opinion on how improve this process based on what we have seen in other countries and other parts of world where that part of aviation So let's keep growing and let's work together for how we in the cabin. Let's for information from everywhere. where to make a safe for us and our passengers. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Well, thank much to those who were with us in this podcast. Listen to us again in the next podcast and thank you to our colleagues who participated tonight. Thank you much. Hugo Marcos Minaya: Gracias. Christian Jimenez: As my niece says, us a