Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 44: Nic Zarate MS, RD, CSSD - SPORTS / PERFORMANCE

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44: Nic Zarate MS, RD, CSSD - SPORTS / PERFORMANCE · Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof

• Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Welcome back to Nutrition Connection, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristin Hicks-Roof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape. Leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Today. I'm excited to bring on a new connection of mine. We have Nick Zarrote. He's the sports sports dietician supervisor at University of Southern California. Welcome to the show, Nick. Nic Zarate: Thank you so much for having me, Chris, and it's an honor. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And before we got started, we found out that Nick had spent time at University of Arizona. So get forewarned, we're going to have a U of A powwow because that's also my alumni. But we're really going to dive in because one of the things that I thought was really interesting about Nick is that he's on the nutrition leadership leadership team at USC and he's the team lead for six Olympic sports. So that's just the nugget and we are going to go way deeper into it. But let's start from the beginning. Nick. What inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional? Nic Zarate: ⁓ so the first answer is I like, or the shorter answer is basically I took intro to nutrition at UVA with Randy Bird, who's the director of sports nutrition there. And he just like happened to, I think it was the last class he taught of that one for awhile. So I feel like it was just by chance and he would be like, anyways, yeah. Do you know like a bell pepper has more vitamin C than an orange? And I was like, that's literally mind boggling. ⁓ my God, this is so cool. ⁓ so basically like. I asked him if I could volunteer with UVA Sports Nutrition, just like literally within like a week of doing that. I was like, yeah, I want to be a dietician. ⁓ But like my little deeper answer is that I was like kind of heavier as a like basically until college. And then I like got into like a fun health journey, which just meant like running a lot and not eating a lot. And so one of the cool things about studying nutrition was that like over time and obviously through mental health work, all the other things. I was able to kind of beat off a lot of those food rules and like fuel my best and do things that I feel like I was limiting myself doing. like enraptured or in captured a freedom that I feel like I didn't know I could have. And that was really cool too. And so I love just helping people. ⁓ And yeah, I love that like nutrition helped me. And I was like, what if I could just like help people this way or in any way. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, used to, when I was an educator, I used to teach that intro of nutrition class and I always loved it. Like you'd say these little zingers one line, the students wouldn't remember 99 % of the content, but they would remember when you said like the surprising nutrition fact and they're like, what, are you serious? And then the fact that they would come from graphic design or maybe pre-med or whatever they were and they would move into the nutrition degree program. Like I think that class, should be required for all students. One, just so you learn the basics of food and health. But then two, I think it is really inspiring and it allows you to maybe create a better relationship with food because like you were kind of talking that you're running basically on zero energy because we go kind of all or nothing. And so that is a direction. Do you think that like your health journey like Nic Zarate: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: plunged you into the sports side or what particularly like really made you fascinated about being a sports dietitian? Nic Zarate: I really just liked the science. I really liked the science behind sports. And so I just thought it was so interesting. UVA only really had like two or three nutrition classes. It was like intro and then sports nutrition. And I thought it was like when I took the second sports or the sports nutrition class, I was like, ⁓ my God, like, this is so cool. Like nitrates, nitrates affecting like your mitochondria is so cool. Like I was such a nerd. And ⁓ I think sports nutrition is really a fun clinical base because you have to like know the energy systems and you have to know all the metabolic pathways or you should. And it's just a really cool way to nerd out over like really cool applied topics. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: when we're gonna nerd out when we get to the science section, but let's talk about your journey a little bit. So you decided that you wanted to pursue into nutrition. What did that look like? Where'd you do internship? And then what kind of jobs did you take before you ultimately landed at USC? Because I mean, sports is a tough field to get into. know a lot of young emerging students would say, I wanna be a sports dietician. And there's a big demand in terms of time and energy and resources as well behind it. So kind of walk us through your journey a little bit. Nic Zarate: Yeah, so I went to the University of Virginia. I'm from Virginia Beach, Virginia, like never moved out of that area. And I went to UVA because none of my sisters got in and my stepdad is an alum, so I was like, ha ha ha. And yeah, terrible reason to go to college. But anyways, so I went there and just was like pre-med, kind of vibing, just ex- existing, determining what I liked. Then I was like, okay, I think I want to be a dietician. ⁓ And so I was like, how can I at least major in that here or major in what I can here to like set myself up for success later when I choose like the masters or whatever. And so I did kinesiology at UVA. The kines major had like the nutrition classes and then did that. And then I don't know why my mind's blanking. I was shadowing or interning at a private practice in Virginia Beach. And they were like, ⁓ by the way, the master's requirement is going to be soon. And I was like, OK, so I guess I should see if I can kill two birds with one stone when I was looking at all the pathways. So I chose a couple. only applied to coordinated programs, which they've changed the name, as you know, like thousand times. It might be like IFSP now. I don't even know. But I chose USC's nutrition masters and Health, Span, Longevity, or Health, yeah, anyways, it's a long one. Because it was a coordinated program set up for people like lot of career switchers to navigate and enter the nutrition. So it was the masters and it had the DI attached to it for anyone who doesn't know what the coordinated program definition is. And then, so that's how I like kind of got rolling. So did UVA, went to USC and then what else? Oh, so. my specialty rotation, kind of was like existing at USC in the sense of I didn't feel like nutrition. was like, ⁓ maybe I don't like this as much. And my first D.I. was in community nutrition during COVID. So it's like the worst time to do anything because no one was like out. So I was like, wow, that was so boring and like not fun, even though I was at a school district. And I felt kind of low motivation. And then I got an opportunity to apply. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Right. Nic Zarate: for my DI to be at the LA Chargers. And I got it. Thank you, God. And I went in and like from the moment, the day one, my preceptor, Paige Crawford, who is no longer at the Chargers, but she was there for like five years. She was like so cool. I was like, wow, I feel so seen. I feel so like related to you. So I like that fully like re-motivated my passion. ⁓ for sports nutrition. And then I ended up, like, I kind of just like kept showing up and Paige was like, Hey, Nick, like, I think we have to pay you after you finish your hours. Like, I think this might be illegal. And I was like, okay. And so they ended up making like the first like seasonal nutrition assistant position. I think that I like slid into my, just like, keep working hard and showing up even without hours or I guess like without pay. I got paid. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: You're like, I'm gonna be here. So whether there's a title associated with it or not, I'm showing up. Nic Zarate: Yeah. Cause I loved like my, my preceptor, I loved the environment and so, and I loved the organization and it was just so fun. So yeah, I was like, you need help. I'm going to be helpful. And, um, so then I, yeah, concurrently did the seasonal nutrition assistant position, um, traveling to different stadiums and stuff while also finishing up my DI, um, whether that meant landing at like three in the morning from Philadelphia and then going to my 6 30 PM clinical rotation or 6 30 AM clinical rotation. ⁓ across LA and yeah, so that was, yeah, like from sports, I basically was like, I'm doing everything I can. And then, ⁓ I feel like I'm a really intentional person. I like to like really be introspective and think about like, what are my strengths? What are my weaknesses? And so as the chargers wrapped up, I was like, awesome. Like I was an assistant kind of nutrition, even though I wasn't like a dietician, I was like an assistant nutritionist, let's say. And I was like, what do I feel like I. where am I at? Where can I go next? And so I applied and was accepted to the University of Maryland's fellowship position for Olympic sports because I wanted to be able to have like team lead experience. And there I was gonna be the lead for five teams while having the supervision of two excellent experienced dietitians. so I took that. And that was super fun. I'm from the East coast. So I was like, ⁓ maybe I want to be closer to home. Spoiler alert, the winter hit. And I was like, no, I don't. And so. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I was gonna say you go coast to coast. That's that's a big change in itself much less the job Nic Zarate: I had a problem and I thought I was done with LA and then I was like, wait a minute, LA has made me soft. Like I need good weather. And so when that wrapped up, ⁓ that was super, that was so fun. felt like I learned so much and had such a great experience there, but I was looking at other jobs, just looking what could I do or could I maybe grow something and U of A popped up and I applied. actually applied to U of A after I got rejected job. And I was like, I'm so like, just need to feel better about myself. Cause I just went to the final round and like got rejected. And, ⁓ I ended up interviewing. went to Tucson. ⁓ I was going to be their first, like full-time Olympic sports dietician. And I just thought it was a cool opportunity to build something, grow something, or like be a part of doing that. And I took the leap and went to Tucson, Arizona, knowing no one. ⁓ And there's a lot of highs and a lot of lows at my time at U of A, but I like loved it. I think it was like a lightning bolt effect. I got promoted and was like the director of Olympic sports nutrition. I was interfacing with like everyone, like the athletic director. I felt like I had the perfect support staff in terms of like all of athletic medicine. And I loved the coaches that I got. I actually never had less than 10 teams there. And I have one point I was. all teams, including football. ⁓ So as that kind of time went on, ⁓ you know, not I may, I think I will always love it. And I, I can't, I'm trying to say this peacefully. I think you have to always know your worth in your career at one point. And I did. I was like, everyone's telling me I'm literally like the cat's pajamas, but I don't feel like that's getting represented in certain ways. And so, and I was like, you keep playing with me, but like, I will leave. And they were like, okay, like whatever I feel like. then I wasn't really applying for jobs. USC just kind of like was up on the job board and I love LA. My then girlfriend slash now fiance is from LA. ⁓ If you've ever met anyone from LA, like literally would be like, why would I ever leave? So the fact that she moved to Tucson was really big for me. But you know, a lot of my friends are in LA. My sister had moved to San Diego. So I applied. And in that interview, I was like, I'm not just like applying to apply. Like if I get this, like see me there in two weeks, like three weeks. ⁓ And then, yeah, I like was super grateful to like move because that U of A, like I felt like the crown was very heavy and I was grateful to go somewhere and take off the crown and let my wonderful director, Rachel Suba, take the crown. And yeah, and I still have like some leadership responsibilities and stuff, but yeah, being on a team of five versus at one point being on a team of one or like two to three. there was ⁓ sometimes had, ⁓ it was just a much better, it's just a much better setup for like a, just a much better setup in general. And so I'm very grateful to. have I think really been intentional about my career. And now where I'm at, I love LA. I'm just having fun, like just getting to help people. And yeah, so that's how I ended up here. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Wow, yeah, so it's really crazy. Okay, when I was at U of A, which was a while ago, a long while ago, but when I was at U of A, there were zero sports dieticians and I was a nutrition student and I worked in the athletic department because I also thought I wanted to be a sports dietician. So I worked with athletic teams and my main sports were track and field and gymnastics. But like in a way they used me as the dietician because they didn't have one. And I was like, y'all like, I'm only a sophomore. You know what I mean? Like there's only so much I know to help it. But it's pretty crazy to see like, yes, we've come a long way in sports nutrition, but there's still a long way to go to really having the resourcing and the personnel to being able to execute at such a high level. Because I mean, sports nutrition was like almost in its infancy when I was in college. It was, there wasn't a lot of positions and now you're starting to see even more growth, whether you had a huge Nic Zarate: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: athletic institution all the way down into high school sports, you're starting to see more roles of sports and dietician. So I do think that I could see the weight bearing because I've felt that way sometimes in my roles. Like here I am, like doing everything you're asking, yet it's almost like still not enough. So sometimes you do need to know like when professionally you're ready for the next move and that's okay. Like it's okay to love your job, but then also transition to another one. And I think that's a hard pill for many people to like kind of swallow because it's scary, you know, the change. Nic Zarate: choked on it. I did not have a fun time. I mourned that job probably until like, probably for like a full year, to be honest. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah. But you know, I think that when one door closes, another one will open, especially if you're a go-getter and you're like really focused and intentional of, here's where my passions are. Here's where my skill and expertise, like here's how I can support you. And obviously you've been able to have doors open for you throughout your career. And that's not just by chance because sports is a competitive area. So let's dive into like your day to day. People who who aspire to be at a university and as a sports scientist and like talk to them. What do you do? What are the people like, how could they maybe get involved if they have a university sports scientist? Like kind of give us a little insight here if there's any students on. Nic Zarate: Yeah, for sure. I think one to answer the, I'll answer the first question and say like what I do, I feel like we do so many things in athletics. so ⁓ for instance, like a day can just consent of counseling athletes, whether that's topics on lab values, know, altered lab values related to nutrition, like iron, vitamin D, if they are not eating, you know, we have like low leptin and you know, maybe sometimes weird. triglycerides raising, all the things. then, ⁓ or like diabetes or just general performance nutrition, like, know, hey, you need to have pre-workout nutrition. This is how beets can help you or beet powder or tart cherry juice. So that's one part. That's my favorite part. think, I think I love the athlete facing interaction. And then, ⁓ or it's like going to meetings with like the athletic trainer or the performance team or the coaches and. hearing like if there's anyone to look out for, it's kind of like a nice little web that a coach might be like, hey, like I'm concerned about their nutrition. I don't think they're eating enough or hey, like I'm concerned that they might be having massive portions. ⁓ I think coaches have had a lot of education in the last 10 years. And so they say things a lot less harmful. And if they're going to say something a little bit aggressive, they normally know to just say it to me, ⁓ which is then helpful. Cause then I can be like, ⁓ my God, like. Hey Diva, let's check in. what's up man? What's happening? Why don't we check in? It's been a while. ⁓ So that's one thing. then at USC, are really blessed to offer a lot of services. just things like body comp testing, hydration testing, enables us to provide individualized recommendations to athletes. ⁓ Game attendance, practice attendance, that is not expected. in the sense of like you have to be at every single one when you have six teams, you, it, athletics is a field where like, if you don't want to show your support, I, my favorite quote ever is if people don't know how much you care, they're not going to care about how much you know. And I think actually Thomas Jefferson said it, but I think I heard it from a dietician and I really like it. ⁓ or like some old guy and, ⁓ Yeah. So I feel like I really try to live through that. And I think athletics is a field where like the athletes are there 20 hours a week or more in terms of just like being at the same building. Cause they have to like do class there. They have to prehab, they have to rehab, they have to go to practice and they play game, then they travel. Like they're really in it. They really care. And so like, if you don't care and they, they tend to not want to listen to you as much. And so just showing presence, showing coaches that you care about the athletes, showing the athletes that you care. I think that goes a tremendous way. So sometimes these little interactions, like you go sit with them at the dining hall and maybe plate coach them, or you just checking with them as humans or you go to practice and you're like, Hey, like, did you have your pre-workout nutrition or are you hydrated? No. Well, for the love of God, please go do that. ⁓ but you get all these moments where they're like very informal education sessions and like presence is like one of the biggest parts of building that rapport. And then for any student that wants to get involved or like start breaking the door and I'm sorry, it's like, feel like it's any student or dietitian, unfortunately, athletics, you know, it's kind of a weird atmosphere and it's not like a normal clinical job and it's not a normal, it's just not a normal world. And I love it. like, the, ⁓ someone said organized chaos. Sometimes it's not even that organized, but, ⁓ I think it's really important to like volunteer and like show hours with the dietitians and show that you like understand how a fueling station works. Because at the end of the day, like that food service management piece is like the most basic piece. Waking up at 4 a.m. to stock a fridge, not fun. No one likes to do it. And people who've been working for a little bit hate to do it even more than the undergrad students because they've been working and they get paid. And I think just unfortunately like showing that you care and like you really want to succeed and learn through volunteering. And then sometimes there's paid opportunities, but unfortunately just with like the climate of NIEL rev share, like a lot of athletic departments, even though, they make millions of dollars. The priority is not like, can we pay certain people? Sometimes the priority is, ⁓ let me reword that. Like with rev share just. The budget is a little tighter. so it's, know sometimes people criticize athletic departments for like, you know, they have all this money. One, that's not always true. And two, athletics is just expensive as it is. I think volunteers just showing that, you know, you want to learn and you want to work hard because unfortunately like athletics is not like a nine to five. It really never is. So if you want to have, like, if you don't want to volunteer. Like you probably won't go far because unfortunately it's a world where you can't be entitled. You're not just on the sidelines being glamorous and glitz. ⁓ you are there. If a coach wants you at 6 AM to do a team talk, cause that's the only time that works for the team. Guess what you're going to do? You're going to educate them. And that kind of goes into the lines like you care. Cause you want them to know, like you want them to win and you want them to have little wins like health wins and stuff like that. It's kind of an, ⁓ a double edged sword because I think it weeds people out. But sometimes I think people cut themselves off from the opportunity. I think every volunteer opportunity or even like working with dieticians, shadowing dieticians is an ability to like an opportunity to learn. so again, I'm just like, you heard me. I was just kept showing up to the charges. Like I think I have a different mindset sometimes, but I also, everyone has a different perspective in athletics. I don't think is for everyone. ⁓ Especially if Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, that Nic Zarate: like you are like, oh, it's sidelined and glamorous. It's like, no, sometimes you're tired and you're there for, you know, 10 to 12 hours because the job has to be done. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I remember, I mean, you're bringing back my U of A days, which like, you are so proud, right? Like I remember when I worked for athletics and, you know, we're filling waters and we were making sure that everyone was hydrated and fueling stations and all this stuff. But I also remember like one of the things that really made me hesitate ever going into becoming a sports dietician, one day I got assigned to football, which like I love football, but I did not want to work it. And I was assigned to sweat towels. And I was like, are you kidding me? Like people, I would have to give them a sweat towel. They wipe their head and then throw it back to me. And I was like, okay, this is not clever. There is a lot of like blood, sweat and tears that goes into sports nutrition and it's not for everyone, you know? And I think you gave some really good examples of that. Like there's a lot of benefits and perks, especially if you're passionate about the people you're helping, but it's not easy. There's early mornings, there's late nights, there's weekends, there's traveling. So. I think for anyone who's thinking about a career in sports nutrition, like there's pros and cons and you just got to see if that aligns with what your passions are. And I want to dive a little bit deeper. So, Nick, before we got on and recording, you said that you're Colombian and you seem like really proud in saying that. Do you think that comes like as ⁓ you know, in Southern California, you have a melting pot of cultures. Do you think that your cultural background and maybe like your food experiences? help you in this role when you are dealing with different cultures? Nic Zarate: That's a good question. And I feel like I just come from like a weird conglomeration of like cultures in my head I identify or I can relate to a lot because my stepdad is part Greek. He's like obsessed with that. My parents are both Colombian. My stepmom is from Virginia, but ⁓ like my grandparents, like my step grandparents own like a hot dog, North Carolina barbecue stand or restaurant. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: delicious. Nic Zarate: So I feel like I've just been like surrounded by a bunch of different cultures and. ⁓ Yeah. I'm like, you you meet a lot of people in school and things like that. But to answer that question, like I think maybe because I am like culturally like ethnic or whatever it's called. I think maybe so because sometimes I think people forget like, ⁓ like, you know, when we do a 24 hour recall, like what are they, what do they eat? And I think one of my favorite examples of using people's cultural foods to help them was I had this athlete and I want to say she was from Haiti. in at University of Maryland. And she had low iron her entire time there. She was a senior when I was there. And we met and we were talking about like how one to take her pill for the love of the Lord. And so take your pill with vitamin C, blah, blah, blah. But then we were like looking at foods, how to get like an iron rich meal every day. And one of these things was like the stew or the sauce that had like black beans, spinach, onions. And I was like, girl, like that is like a basically very high plant-based iron meal. Like put that on some red meat and you're like on like you're on your powerful. And ⁓ yeah, for the first time ever, her iron work had ⁓ been like healthy once they got the follow-up. So that's like one of my favorite ones, but so I don't know if it's because I'm Colombian and like, I just, I'm like, yeah, I love rice and beans. But I think a lot of people forget that like you can like. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's awesome. Nic Zarate: There's so many foods that you can get and like sometimes like an iron rich meal or a vitamin D meal, like they kind of go together like a Chipotle bowl. As long as you don't get sour cream and know, dairy, it's like the perfect iron meal if you get steak. ⁓ So you can like eat these foods, you know, specifically for like the goal and it's all times kinds of different foods. But yeah, I felt really cool when I went into that console like blank say, and I was like, tell me about that food. Like what is that stew? and our sauce and then was able to like help her incorporate that into like her goals. And that was fun. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, well, I do think it can be so powerful. you know, I think as dieticians, we're expected to kind of know everything right across all different food types and cultural cuisines. And I know I used to teach a socio-cultural class when I was ⁓ a faculty member. And I would always try and get people like try foods and go to, you know, more ethnic grocery stores, because like what their availability is and what they also maybe cook in their routine. you might pick up on of things like iron rich, you know, supplements, ⁓ know, dietary foods to be able to supplement the iron intake. So there's a lot of opportunity there. OK, so you mentioned a little bit about like data and science and how that kind of drives what you do. So kind of give us a little bit of insight. How does the scientific data and evidence fuel what you do in your day to day? Nic Zarate: Yeah, for sure. So one thing I'll say first is that a lot of times people think that the data is the end all be all or like certain research is the end all be all. So I'll have, you know, I have a intern, a DI right now and I'm like, give me like the scientific, you know, in this case study, like tell me what you'd recommend the athlete. And she's like, yeah, like eight, you know, eight to 10, 12 grams of carbs for kilogram of body weight. And I'm like, cool. Awesome. Like, do you think that's feasible? She was like, yeah. And I was like, do some math on that. like, let's look at it. This is like 140 pound athlete. Let's say like, do you think that they're going to be able to get 6,000 calories from carbs? And like, I was like, do you know how many like, whatever 700 grams of carbs? Like, do you know how many like cliff bars that is for instance? It's like, uh, like let's say I'm 15. Do you think that's reasonable? No. Yeah. So sometimes like Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Right? Nic Zarate: the data we have, the research we have is like awesome. And I'm not trying to poo poo it, but sometimes it's just almost impossible for an athlete to reach unless they're just like drinking syrup and having like plain grilled chicken. So a lot of the times I try to educate people like even if we can get towards the goal, that's going to be powerful and more powerful than where they're already starting from. So that's one thing I always keep that in mind. And then I think I heard this from another dietitian and he was like, if you've never read a sports nutrition book, like you shouldn't even like talk to me about being a sports dietitian. And I would agree. I think you have to be up to date on research so that way you can move through and navigate. Like why does a sprinter need carbs? Like explain to me that why does a tennis athlete need carbs? ⁓ I don't know. ⁓ have you thought about how they sprint around that little court a thousand times? Like, have you thought about why, why are you telling me that this sprinter needs, you know, 4,000 calories, let's say. they, and I know we shy away from that verbiage sometimes, but as clinicians, sometimes we have to think about it kind of hard and think like, Hey, like they didn't even run a mile at practice. Like why would they need, you know, this, they're not distance. So sometimes we have to like really understand the sport before we can even go do anything with the information. ⁓ so all that to say a lot of the times, like we have body comp, we have lab work, we have. ⁓ hydration testing, let's say. And so we're able to get like hydration status, or we can even do like, I always say like the rinky dink sweat method is just weighing in and out and then track the amount of water they drink at a practice. And even that you can make educated guesses for an individualized hydration plan. ⁓ And all that to say like, so we use all this data and trends to be like, hey, like your body comp, you know, we do it voluntary optional at USC. So they don't have to come if they don't want to, we don't like force anyone to do it. But, you know, they come in and I'm like, Hey, like your body, your muscle mass went down and your body fat went up. Like what, are you doing differently? ⁓ nothing. And I'm like, why don't we meet? And then eventually it's like, ⁓ I was like drinking way more or, know, I wasn't actually like, was skipping breakfast. So I was like, okay. So like you were breaking down more muscle and then you were just building up fat when you did eat enough or whatever, because you were like not eating your protein goals. So we get to use this. these data and these trends to then facilitate like, hey, like this is what's going on in your body. Like this is something was wrong because you're not supposed to lose muscle during a season. So like what was happening? Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I like how you talked about you take science, but then you also put it in the bigger clinical picture, right? Of like, okay, what's feasible? What makes sense? What would make sense for that particular person? Like if you're talking about a gymnast and you're trying to get 7,000 calories in with carbs or something, you're like, all right, they're probably not going to be able to consume that many calories. So like, how do we do it in, you know, smaller portion or more nutrient dense portions or whatever it might be. So I do think that there is. It's really good feedback that like you kind of have to take the research but then also have this clinical lens as you go through. So you talked about like you've been working at several, you know, Olympic facilities and you've been in sports dietetics kind of all over the country. What is something that's your most favorite or that you're most proud of? Nic Zarate: Bye. I always joke that I love a winner and I do love working with a lot of very talented athletes. I've been very blessed to do so, but a lot of my most powerful and like meaningful moments have been with the athletes that I feel like a lot of people wouldn't pay attention to. and I just, every day I like move with the lens of like, how can I help someone today? Even if it's just be nice to them. Like how, like love and light, like, how can I move? And just like make someone's day better. And so I really try to move forward with that. And, ⁓ I've just had so many. Like, I'm just like thinking and I've had, sometimes you forget like, you know, I haven't helped anyone ever. And you're like hard on yourself. And then I like think back and I like do a catalog of the kids here at let's say, UA at, I don't even think of, can't, ⁓ my God, Maryland. Like the chargers just like. And you get to think like, wow, like I'm so grateful that I've been able to help even one person. And I think one thing that like my favorite one was there. It's now the feeling victory award, but back three or four years ago, it was the, ⁓ ASPDA, like, I don't know, athlete of the year award. And it was, I'd like nominated my athlete, ⁓ who was like a type one diabetic. and we just like did a lot of work together and, ⁓ that was like really cool. Cause I felt like I learned a lot, like for myself. And I think that put me kind of like on a little bit of like the map in the field, just like to get or have my athlete receive that award award. And I got to give a speech and embarrass myself in front of people. ⁓ But that was like a really moving, powerful one because I felt like we were like that kid and I for like a while, it was like, I was like the support staff and like, he was like the athlete and like we would meet weekly and like. do all the plans and stuff. that was really fun. felt like really, I'd made a difference in that kid's life at the time. And then my other favorite memory was actually at U of A. One of the coaches wrote me a note like at the end of the year. And it was just like my line that like could make me like cry. like, I wish we could clone you like a thousand times over. And so I like, cause you are like the meaning of like whatever. Wildcat way or whatever. Um, and I remember being like, wow, like I am good at my job. Like, you know, we have face imposter syndrome so many times and I think I'm really excellent, but I think sometimes when you get all the like little minutia and the red, the red tape of your job, you like forget like, Oh, you're making a difference. And so those are like the two moments that really stand out. And that's like why you have a is like the like, will always hold like such a dear place. It was like a lightning bolt of perfect like coaches, athletes, staff. was just like, yeah, so I loved it. ⁓ I love USC. I get to do the same thing here in a much better city. So that's really. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Hey, hey, you can't hate on Tucson. Tucson's a great city. It's much smaller and we don't have as good a weather as you do in Southern California, but there's definitely pros and cons. No, think you gave some great examples that you're... And you even gave examples previously. Like we do make impact, but sometimes imposter syndrome kind of comes up on us. But we have to think like every day you're talking with... athletes and their families or whoever you might be talking with and you're making an imprint just like the faculty member made an imprint on you with that one nutrition fact. So you may not have this like profound, you know, metabolic changes and victories of rings and cups and, you know, ⁓ national championships, but every day you're piecing into part of these, this person's success, both on the field and then also probably at home, right? When we, when we feel better, we feel better. ⁓ especially as a former athlete myself. Like I know if I come home and eat junk food all day, I'm gonna feel like garbage and my performance is also gonna be garbage the next day. So I think it's all looped in together. So what tips or suggestions would you have for someone who wants to go into sports nutrition and who wants a higher level roller to move up the rankings? What advice would you give them? Nic Zarate: Maybe. This actually might be a topic that I'm going to be presenting at the California Academy Nutrition Conference. Everyone feel free to sign up. It's next week. I don't know when this is coming out, but I, I view that, or I think that people need to remember that like they're a brand, even if you're just like a person in a one person department, like if you're in a team, like your team is the brand. And so like, how can we make sure that we're navigating the brand and like having good PR? And like, what does that look like? Like who is your audience? So if you're an athletic department, like your athletes and your coaches and like this, the admin or your brand, like they're your key stakeholders, your support staff, like making sure that you are navigating and trying to build real, but also positive relationships with all these people. Not everyone's going to like you, but people can respect you and how do you like, what is important to them? So like, what is important to your key stakeholders? Some of my coaches want team talks. They don't really care if I show up to lift or anything. Another coach has literally been like, don't waste their time with team talks. Just do one-on-one sessions if they want and show like, come be present. ⁓ so it's just making sure like you're communicating like, Hey, like what's important to you and like, what do you envision this role doing? And then also knowing the wherewithal to be like, I don't know if I can do that every day, but I will try to come for whatever. And just being mindful that if you ever over promise and under deliver, you are cutting yourself at the heels and everyone will basically think you're not good. So always. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Isn't it so wild how like you can do everything really, really well, but all of sudden, if you make a commitment of something you're going to do and you don't do it, like that is a crook. So that's what people remember. Even if you did a lot of good things, but I do think that's a really important takeaway because I remember I had an intern a couple of years ago and she had promised to send something to one of our stakeholders. And then like a week later, I was like, well, did you send it? And she was like, ⁓ no, I just. you I just let them know that we could send it. And I'm like, no, no, if you say that you were going to send something, you have to follow through because that is our reputation. Right. And I want them to think of me in my role and my team's role as the best that deliver at everything that we do. So I think that was a really important nugget. Sorry, you can keep going. Nic Zarate: This is Yeah. Yeah, I remember, and I was actually really grateful because when I first got to somewhere, don't, it wasn't USC, but there were a couple people who had been like part-time dieticians and they came in with like, I think it was their first job. Like they graduated and like got the job, which is like super tremendous and awesome. But I was blessed to have like mentorship at that fellowship position. And I remember when I was a fellow, I was like, I'm going to do all these things. And my boss, Paul was like, Whoa. does that seem like the best use of your time? Like, do you think you can do that? Like that's very one, operational and two, like, is that, like, is that really important? And I was like, I don't know. But I remember learning like, ⁓ that was really like, I'm glad I didn't overcommit. And then when I went to another institution and saw that, like at U of A, like the reason that I feel like my boss would tell me like the reason you are so powerful is like, you are literally never overcommitting to anything. If you say you're going to do it, like you do it. And so I've always tried to do that because I learned like, I didn't really have a word for it. And so I learned them like, ⁓ like, you know, if you just say you're going to make smoothies for the team and you don't like they're automatically like they're bad. And so I think having really good mentorship is really important. so when you're applying to jobs and you're looking for places, I think really like, think about like, okay, like, what do I want to get out of this and how can I offer something to them too? because I think a lot of students reach out to me and it really seems like, can I take from you versus like, or what can you give me versus like, how can I help you? ⁓ But yeah, I think just be mindful. Like I think mentorship is so crucial in athletics and like, but in any job really like, you know, is this a great project? You know, is this person going to build me up? Is this person going to teach me? And am I also coachable? I think that's also being reflective. Like if, do you want to be on a team? If you don't want to be on a team, don't work in a department. Like, right? Like some people are not meant to be on like certain kinds of teams and that's okay. But it's just kind of knowing yourself and being always willing to learn and just, you know, think about it that way. I think it's really helpful. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: think you gave several different tips and advice that would be super helpful for people, especially if they're trying to navigate or jump into that water, whether you're early career or you're trying to move into sports later in your career. And I loved how you talked about mentoring because one of the things with our RD mentorship program that we've been running for well over 10 years is reciprocity. So if you don't know what that word is, search it and then think about that with your mentoring relationships that we should be giving and receiving when it comes to mentoring. And they're not necessarily going to be equal in terms of the deliverables or the tangible things that we're going to be doing. But if I'm going to intern with you, Nick, how am I going to be above and beyond? Like I'm going to get there early and start prepping the stations or filling the fridge that you hate filling, right? That's like kind of going above and beyond because you're also getting that mentorship and guidance one-on-one with an athlete, right? And so it's kind of like How do you do that in all your mentoring relationships? And again, it's not a one-for-one relationship. Be careful about making it one-for-one, but it is about how both parties have that beneficial impact from the experience. Okay, my favorite question. If you had a crystal ball neck, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Nic Zarate: Well, I protein is big right now. ⁓ And I thought of this question like earlier the other day and I was like, and I have an athletics answer and then I have like a general answer. think in athletics, I think there was a problem where a lot of people were like making PB and J's and like being the ones to make the smoothies. But I mean, at Maryland, like at Maryland, they were like, you are not the smoothie boy. And I... really took that at U of A and like, people be like, can you make smoothies? I was like, my volunteers can, like, I'm not going to waste time doing that. Now, sometimes I would make them for fun just like, because I was like, I need a break and like, I'm to make five smoothies or whatever. But ⁓ really positioning the dietician as like a clinical practitioner, I think is the new trend in athletics and just being really having boundaries with that. So my boss at USC, Rachel is really big on like, we're clinical practitioners. you should not be stalking, you should not be stalking your team rooms. You should like, that is what our students are for. And that's what they get paid to do. So I think that like trend, a lot of dieticians like fell into that pit hole of like, I'm a food service person, but that doesn't get you raises. I don't think like that doesn't make you look important in key stakeholder meetings. Cause they're like, why would we not just hire a director of ops to do this? ⁓ So it's been, I love that I work in a department that valid like really tries to emphasize that like we are medical practitioners, know, we are looking at lab work, we should be counseling, we should be charting ⁓ on top of all the other things we try to do. And then ⁓ my general health one. So I hope this isn't a hot take, but I think that there was in COVID like 2020 era, like health at every size was like a really big thing. And I feel that it, is with the new generation, Gen, I think X is so interesting because they are basically like, you cannot tell us what to say. Like they will try to say the opposite. It's very interesting. It's kind of, and it kind of is what youth do across history. And so I think health at every size is going to just change and look a little different because I agree with a lot of the components, but I think a lot of the like, you can't say certain words. And I don't even know like what language I'm referring to necessarily because it's This might be like a controversial take, but I think it's just going to change and look a little different if that makes sense. And I think it's largely driven by the cultural change of the younger generation who like, like when I was growing up, like I was like, you know, you can't say that. Like don't say that dad, like don't say that mom. And now these kids will say things that I'm like, good heavens. Like, ⁓ my God. And they're like, there's nothing wrong with it. Like explain to me why. And I'm like, I'm trying, but like you're making me nervous. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ⁓ yeah, yeah, I think Gen Z. Nic Zarate: Um, so, or yeah, Gen Z, um, but yeah, it's just, think, I think that helped at every size movement. It'll just look a little bit different. And I think it's going to be more focused on like, how can we be healthy versus like really the focus on the size. And I think it's going to just be like, how can we be healthy? If that makes sense, if we could really highlight that part of that, that would be awesome. Thank you. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: We can do that. We can do that. Yeah, you know, I think I think you're right. I think Gen Z, I mean, from all the consumer insights, I'm always looking at data and research and consumer insights because I'm just I'm really fascinated by it. And I went to Expo West this earlier this year to just really like pick up on what are insights, what are products, what are things trending? And I think a lot of it is driven by Gen Z who wants transparency. They want to know what's in their food. They want to know what's in their medications. They want to know kind of like like pushing outside the box when I think the rest of us have just kind of been like little levings like, all right, we're just going to do that because we've been told to do that. then Judzi's like, wait a minute. I don't know if I want to do that. Like, tell me why I need to do that. And what's the reason. Nic Zarate: Tell Me Why piece is really big for them, which I appreciate. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: No, yeah, when I think you're right, the body size movement and health at every size movement, I don't think has fully gone away because obviously you have like these ozempics and some of these medications. Like people are always quote unquote craving to be skinny, right? No matter, that's why they're on weight loss journeys and medications. But I do think the path at health at every size is constantly changing. And I think it will continue. I agree with you. think that path will continue, but it'll be driven by different things. Like it'll be driven by good for you products or better for you supplements within the sports nutrition space or something like that. So it'll be really interesting to see how that plays out over the next 10 years as Gen Z grows up. then you have, know, Gen Alpha and Gen Beta, which are the babies right now in how they're going to adopt maybe some of those Gen Z behaviors. Nic Zarate: Yeah, I'm really interested to like know like how the ozempic trend, which I think is obviously like overused right now, like those weight loss, GLP ones, all the things. And I'm interested to see like what kind of, because it's always a pendulum and it always swings back. And I'm like, I wonder how this will swing back. Like how will, you know, so yeah, I mean, it's a world we've never lived in because like never before have like weight loss drugs been like as prominent. And so I'm really interested to be like, how will this How will the pendulum swing back to us? Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Of course. Yeah, it'll be interesting. So only time to tell. Maybe we'll get some GLP-1 experts on here to give us a little bit of insight of where they think that's going. So thank you so much, Nick, for being on the show. And if you like the show, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode where I bring on a different dietician or nutrition expert to share their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.