Latest / Senior Pet Talk | for dogs + cats / 27. Herbs, Acupuncture, and the Gut-Brain Relationship in Pet Dementia

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27. Herbs, Acupuncture, and the Gut-Brain Relationship in Pet Dementia · Senior Pet Talk | for dogs + cats

• SPT Ep 27 Final: You are listening to Senior Pet Talk, the show where we combine Western and Chinese medicine to give senior dog and cat parents the knowledge, the clarity, and the confidence to make sure that your pets' senior years are their best years yet. I'm Dr. Amanda Steffen. Let's get started. Oftentimes when we talk about cat or dog dementia or brain health, we talk about it in a way where we say, well, there's nothing we can do about it. It's just gonna progress, it's gonna happen, there's nothing we can do to help it, and that's that. And I hate that answer because there is so much we can do for dementia in dogs and cats. There is so much we can do to help. treat this and to help get some of those clinical signs to resolve. And today I want to talk to you about a couple options that have probably not been brought to your attention and they may be a little unconventional, but I have personally seen improvements with them. And there are a lot of studies to back it up. So I want to give you that information today. Welcome back to Senior Pet Talk. I am Dr. Amanda Steffen. I am an integrative senior pet focused veterinarian, and I bring all of my knowledge to you here so that you can help your senior pet live a longer, happier life. So today I have some stories, I have some studies, and I have some information for you about dog and cat dementia. I want to talk to you about herbal formulations. I want to talk to you about acupuncture for dementia. I want to talk to you about the interaction between the gut brain axis and then things like gut microbiome and ozone therapy for senior pets with dementia. So we're gonna go a little bit backwards here because I am very excited about the gut brain axis, and I'm very excited to talk to you about that. So the gut brain axis is this two-way communication. between our gut health and the microbiomes and the bacteria and the viruses and things like that found in our gut and our nervous system. And that is done through nerves, through immune cells, through hormones, and through metabolic pathways. This is not something that is talked about enough in my opinion. And it is something with a lot of emerging information out on it. There have been studies in people to find that there have been changes associated with certain microbiome factors in humans that are associated with dementia later in life. And they have found in humans that the changes found in the gut microbiome can show up decades before dementia symptoms show up. So what if we could check the microbiome and know. Hey, we're missing these important things that could cause dementia, or we have a high value in these certain gut microbiomes that could lead to dementia. And we can alter that before the dementia even happens. We can also work on that after it has happened. We can change this gut flora. And this is something that gets me really hyped up because it's something that could. potentially reverse dementia symptoms. There was a really interesting study done in mice and humans where, and I I could botch this a little bit, but here's the gist of it. My husband is someone who knows more about research than I do. I I try and get the Cliff Notes version of things. But there was a study done where they took the gut microbiome or basically gut material from people and they put them into healthy mice. And those healthy mice then had Alzheimer's. So the people had Alzheimer's, they took gut microbiome from them, put it in these healthy mice, and those healthy mice then got Alzheimer symptoms or dementia symptoms. Then they took healthy mice tissue and healthy gut from mice that did not have dementia symptoms. put it into the mice that then had dementia symptoms and it actually reversed some of their signs of dementia. If we could just change our gut microbiome and alter dementia, how revolutionary would this be? And we are seeing it. There is a company that I work with, Animal Biome, They have a neurologist who is doing a study right now and they're still collecting data, but they found that there was a certain microbiome. They they gave some fecal transplant material to these dogs. And they had owners do a scale where they tested dementia symptoms and like their levels. And then they gave them this fecal transplant over a certain period of time. And then they tested the dementia scale afterwards. And most of these pets improved on the dementia scale. So that is treating. Like the it doesn't mean that it's completely clearing it, but we are improving. And historically, dementia is something where we've said, well, there's nothing that reverses it. There's some things that manage it, but there's nothing that reverses it. This could reverse some symptoms. It is so cool. And it is So amazing. So there have been multiple studies done in humans where they know that these certain strains, if they're low, then that can lead to dementia. So what has been done in these studies is they've taken strains of these probiotics and they've given it to people that have dementia. And over time, they've actually noticed an improvement in their clinical signs of dementia. Just with this probiotic that's specific to these dementia fortiflora or these dementia flora. They found that there's an improvement in the gut flora of these people just by changing and adding in these gut microbiomes. We also know, and I preach this all the time, that the gut flora starts in the mouth. If we have dogs that have or cats that have severe. Dental disease or even mild to moderate dental disease. It can cause dysbiosis or a dysregularity in the gut microbiome that begins in the mouth and they swallow. It starts there. So we know that there is a direct correlation between a poor dental health and dementia in pets. It is extremely important to stay on top of dental health. And a lot of these gut tests check like a poop sample, but they also have like an oral swab that you can do too. So we're checking it from the beginning to the end. It's really important that we do that because we need to know where this dysbiosis is happening. And there have been studies that show a direct correlation to oral dysbiosis and dementia in these patients. There is another another study about gut microbiome. This was done in patients that have epilepsy. And these this was done in nine dogs that had what we call drug-resistant epilepsy. So they did not respond well to medications or had stopped responding to medications. And what they found was that fecal transplant given two weeks apart did have an improvement in their fear, anxiety, their quality of life overall. So this isn't related specifically to dementia, but it does again promote this gut brain. dysbiosis and factor associated with these things, seizures obviously come from the brain. So when we're talking Western medicine, it's really important for us to rule out dental disease, to rule out GI disease, and to rule out pain when we're talking about these dementia symptoms. But in traditional Chinese veterinary medicine, so we have different ways to think about things and in Traditional Chinese veteran medicine, the spleen and the stomach are kind of the root of that qi and blood. And if we have a weak spleen, that's going to have an effect on the heart and the shin. And that's where we think this brain health comes into play. So that's going to show up with things like restlessness, poor sleep, and confusion. So that is another component to saying food therapy and food intervention. can be so important to these guys as well. And supporting their spleen and and things like that. So in traditional Chinese veterinary medicine, we think about the organs not as an organ. So the spleen in Chinese medicine is not truly spleen the organ in Western medicine. The spleen is important for our GR tract in Chinese medicine. It is very abstract. You have to kind of take yourself out of out of all the things that you've learned in Western medicine and then come back around to a different version of learning these things, which I think is amazing to be able to test my brain like that and to move those things around. In Chinese medicine, one of the things that I love the most is that we talk about everything is related to each other. Everything works in this yin and yang and this movement and this flow. And if there's stagnation somewhere, then there's a problem with our flow. And I think that is somewhere where Western medicine in humans especially is actually trending. We're looking a lot more now at people who deal with the whole body and like functional medicine and and a whole body approach. And it's considered just this phenomenon. And Chinese medicine, veterinary medicine has been doing this, and Chinese medicine has been doing this forever because we think that the body is a whole. It's not just I'm a hand doctor. Or I am a GI doctor, or I am a brain doctor, you are part of an entire ecosystem in the body. And Chinese medicine really does a good job with that. And I appreciate that about it because it's this constant movement of things. And if our spleen is not able to cook our food appropriately, or triple burner or triple heater isn't able to help cook things appropriately. Then it could overcook or undercook things. And that's going to have a direct effect on the other organs. And that can make things get more or less out of whack. So it's complicated, but really interesting to think about. And I guess as pet parents, the main thing for you to know is that there is this constant flow in Chinese medicine and we're always trying to keep things in equilibrium. And that's why a lot of these Western tests and studies. Don't work when we're talking about Chinese medicine because I can have 10 patients with arthritis in Western medicine and in Chinese medicine, they're all going to have a different diagnosis. They're not going to be diagnosed with arthritis. They're going to be diagnosed with kidney too deficiency, with ging deficiency, with ODB, with stagnation, with all these different things. And it's not going to be as simple. So that's why a lot of these Western studies don't. they say that Chinese medicine doesn't work or isn't proven, but that's just because they're not allowing it to be studied in the appropriate way. When we are talking about cats, again, unfortunately, cats don't have a lot of data behind them in this regard. My issue, I've seen quite a few cats where we've done gut testing on them. It's just hard to get them to take the gut treatment because they're usually capsules and they can't be broken up. So It's something that we can definitely do. Another option for like gut changes. So I've been talking a lot about fecal transplant capsules. And that's usually the main way that I currently use to help pet parents and their pets to help their gut microbiome. However, a better way and a more direct way is actually to give those gut microbiomes rectally. So we can place a small catheter into the rectum and we can basically give them poop in their rectum and we can use that to help regulate the dysbiosis in the GI tract. This can be done under sedation. It can be done not under sedation. It is a really interesting phenomenon that I plan to learn more about in the next couple years and integrate a little bit more into my practice. I don't do as much of that side of things yet, but I do follow quite a few practitioners who do and they see amazing changes with that. So I think an appropriate diet can be a huge factor in this. Gut microbiome testing can be a huge factor in this. Potential gut interventions like rectal gut microbiome alterations can be effective. Dental health is really important to make sure we're staying on top of. And the other thing that I am going to have more information for you about in a month or two, and stay tuned for that. Make sure you're subscribed is ozone therapy. So this is basically helping to with free radical issues and helping with what I consider like a hyperbaric oxygen. I'm probably butchering that a little bit. I'm gonna have someone on the podcast who is a founder in one of these categories and we're going talk a lot about it. I am going to be taking some trainings too. I am always learning, always trying to bring new things to you. And I want to make sure that I know the information before I bring it to you. So just on your radar, ozone therapy is something we're going to talk about in future. And I want you to know it can also help with this Alzheimer's, this gut microbiome, GI diseases, and things like that. I want to talk to you about herbs when it comes to Dementia. There are a lot of them actually. There are some that are just like standard probiotics. There's a company called Standard Process. They have like a cognitive concoction that they can prescribe. There's a Thorn, I think is another company that has some cognitive improvements. I think Pet Wellness, is that the name of the brand? They have a Aging, pet aging, brain aging formulation as well. These all have a certain mixture of herbs in them. The over-the-counter ones are not going be as efficacious as the prescription ones. There are quite a few herbal prescriptions that I have used for patients over the years, and I have been so impressed with the results that we've gotten. I have one dog who we use herbs on for anxiety. She's a younger dog, but she has had substantial improvements with it. I have another dog right now who's on a product called Shin Calmer by Gentong, and that is a calming supplement for her. It helps with her shin or her brain function. The there's a couple other herbs that can be used for that as well. I have also treated a cat, actually two cats now for Dementia with herbal formulations. I guess sometimes cats are not receptive to acupuncture, other modalities like that that I would like to try. So we're like, okay, well, let's try some herbs. And I had one coworker who had a 20-year-old cat that was yowling all night long. And she was like, You gotta help me. There's gotta be something because I can't handle this. And I said, Okay, let's try a couple of different herbs. Let's see what we what we can come up with. And we tried this one herb. And she said it was so much better. She said it was just, it's insane how much he sleeps through the night now. And I we can all rest and it's so nice. It's a simple change. And herbs typically you're not gonna have any major side effects. They can be strong, especially prescription herbs. So there can be blood thinning components to it. There can be other things that we we want to keep a close eye on. So It's not something that I recommend people trying to buy over the counter and do on their own. I have had a client who came to me and she was on eight different things, supplements, medications, and herbs that all cause blood thinning as a side effect. And maybe if we had two or three, it wouldn't be a big deal. But when you have eight, I get really worried about their blood. So we always want to make sure anything we're putting in our pet's body, we're Doing a very thorough job checking it against all these other things, tell your vets, everything, supplements, herbs, food, all those things, because they can all have a factor in it. In these studies, there have not been a lot of studies on overall herbs to help with these things. Again, these studies are going to be a little flawed because they're not done in the way that's going to allow Chinese medicine to be Chinese medicine. So I will tell you, I used to be a person of there has to be a study, there has to be a fact on it. And now I'm more of a person who says, maybe it doesn't have a study on it because it wouldn't make a lot of money. So who's gonna fund a study on it? And maybe because it's not being allowed to be studied in the way that it needs to be studied in Chinese medicine. I don't think that there's this big push or I don't think that I don't really believe in like the conspiracy theory of trying to keep people or animals sick to benefit pharma. I am getting a little concerned about insurance being in charge of a lot of things, especially in human medicine. And I kind of hope it doesn't come over to animal medicine now because of this. So when we're talking herbs, we do have A couple over-the-counter options. I typically recommend having that worked up by a Chinese practitioner and getting a formulation there because you want to make sure you're doing these things right. There are a couple of different traditional Chinese veterinary medicine diagnoses. If you're curious, we talk about like kidney, yen, and yang deficiencies, heart Shen disturbances, and phlegm or like stasis of the Shen. Those are all just different. options that we would go through when we're talking about these dementia symptoms. But a lot of times it's because something is overacting on something or something is underacting on something, or there's like this mother and grandmother component to it. So it could be something along those lines as well. Herbs, Chinese medicine is so cool. I just think it's really interesting how things are so much different than Western medicine. But I can see a large improvement in my patients when I'm treating with this. So It is definitely something to keep in mind when you are going through some of these diseases that Western medicine cannot help or cannot help extremely well, to know that there's another way. And that's the whole reason I took Chinese medicine training because I said this can't be the only option. It can't just be Western medicine because there's so many things that it doesn't treat, right? So now we have more options. And I bring those to you. Have you ever left the vet with more questions than answers? And then you drive home and you go straight on to Google. Yeah, I hear that a lot. And honestly, it's exactly why I created my senior pet virtual consultations. Imagine we have 45 minutes where we go through everything, your pet's full history, their specific challenges, their daily life, no rushing. We're gonna cover nutrition, integrative options, whole modifications, and quality of life. And I send you a personalized plan after so that nothing slips through the cracks here. But don't just take my word for it. Chelsea called it a senior pup therapy session and said she felt so much better afterwards. Adiba got recommendations her own vet had never thought to suggest, and Denise said that the consult was incredibly informative and helpful, giving her many options to help her dog Loki feel better. This is the conversation that your senior pet deserves. And honestly, The one you deserve too. The link is in the description. I'd love to help you. The last thing I want to talk to you about is the gateway that got me into Chinese medicine, and this is acupuncture. And there's a particular patient I want to talk to you about. His name was Cody. Cody was this little poodle-y thing. I for I like I think he was a cocker spaniel poodle or something along those lines. He was adorable. Very cute. Cody came to me. As a patient who had had dementia for a while. He had been waking up in the middle of night for a year straight. His dad had not been sleeping in his own bed for a year straight. His dad had been sleeping on a mattress on the floor downstairs in the living room. That is not sustainable for most people's life and for he was married, for his relationship, and also not something Cody, I'm sure, liked. Because Cody used to love to sleep in bed with them. So it was a change for everybody by the time they reached out to me. Obviously, like I said, it had been a year of this. So we're coming really far behind. But they said he has kidney disease, he has heart disease. We don't want to do a lot of medications. We don't really want to try herbs or anything like that right now. We just want to try acupuncture and see what we can do. And I said, Okay, challenge accepted. I had not up until that point treated a patient in my five years just with acupuncture for dementia. And I said, let's do it. Let's try. Let's see what happens. So after two sessions of acupuncture with Cody, he was sleeping through the night at least three nights of the week. Not every night. We never got him to every night, but half of the nights of the week. He would sleep all the way through the night, not only just sleep all the way through the night in the bed with them again, which he hadn't done in a long time, comfortably, until like eight o'clock in the morning. It was amazing to see the difference that it made for him and for his family. And we only got to see Cody for about six months because his other diseases detrimented him and ultimately it made them have to make a decision. But He got an improved quality of life for six beautiful months. And they were extremely grateful. I was extremely grateful for the opportunity. And now I have a case study to say, absolutely this helped. I am writing up this case. I have not done it yet, but it is an it is something I have in the queue and and I'm going to do because this is something people need to know about. So I'm not telling you that it absolutely will work. For your patient. I have a lot of colleagues who reached out to me when I told that story and were like, what are you doing? We're not seeing those results. But if you do happen to get those results with something that's as low risk as acupuncture, why not try? Right? It's just so amazing to see the results that I've been able to get with some of these things. So I want you guys to know that when we check these things, They are a little unconventional. They may not have as much data behind them, but we're getting there. It is something that we run as a trial. So typically in these scenarios, I'll say, hey, let's do this herb for two months and let's see. Let's do acupuncture for four to six weeks and let's see. You know, let's try this FMT or this fecal transplant for 60 days and let's see. And let's track. Let's track their symptoms. Let's do a calculator before, let's do a calculator afterwards, and let's see where they're at. And if we're not noticing an improvement or at least a stagnation of symptoms, then we don't have to continue anymore. And that's okay. The placebo effect is very real. Sometimes we may think we see something that we don't. So it is important to make sure you're tracking that. And these are just some really nice alternative options that may bring opportunity to pets who have been told there's no options. So If anyone has ever told you that there are no options for your pet when it comes to dementia, come find me and we can talk about things. Cause I think there's other options that you probably just don't know about yet. And I will help you find somebody around you who can talk to you more about it. But I am grateful to have this knowledge to share with you. I am grateful to continue to learn and I will report back to you with my ozone training information and I thank you so much for giving me your time today. I appreciate you and you are doing a fantastic job. It is really hard to care for a pet that has dementia. And I just want you to know that I see you, I was you, and you are doing such, such a good job. So I am proud of you. I love you. Have a beautiful day. That's it for today. If this episode helped you, please leave a review or rate this podcast so we can get the word out to more pet parents who need to hear that they are doing a good job. And if you're interested in working more with me, you can find me on social media or at senior petconnection.com because we all need to stay connected. Remember that you are doing a great job with the information that you have in this moment. And I am just here to give you more of it. See you next week.