Latest / Identity at the Center / #185 - Oktane 22 - Managing Identity on Apple devices with Matt Vlasach

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#185 - Oktane 22 - Managing Identity on Apple devices with Matt Vlasach · Identity at the Center

• 0:09
  You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is
• 0:13
  the show that talks about identity and access management
• 0:15
  and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
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  started. Welcome to the identity of the
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  center podcast. I'm Jeff.
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  And that's Jim. Hey, Jim.
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  Hey, Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself.
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  It's going fantastic here. A doctor octane. 22 in San
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  Francisco, California. And in the recording booth,
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  which is fantastic. It is, and the rain has
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  subsided. So today's been a nice nice,
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  casual walk over. At least, I don't know.
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  Actually, maybe the rain has inspired haven't seen the
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  sunlight since about 8 a.m. but yes, definitely, thanks doctor
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  for their support, you know, giving a spot to record Thanks
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  to our SM, obviously, for funding, our travel out here and
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  making this all possible enough with the kind of the
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  commercials, we are at Octane 22.
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  We've been having lots of great conversations with folks here,
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  we've got another one, great, another great, one lined up
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  here, with Matt Vesak. He's the VP of product with
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  champ. Welcome to the show, man.
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  Hey guys, thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks so much for taking
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  the time and this is the first time you've been on the podcast
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  with us. So we've got this sort of
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  traditional question and that is how did you get into this space
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  of identity? And you know is it something?
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  Thing that you chose or did it choose you?
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  Yeah so identity definitely found me.
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  I came from a place of device management, Mobile Security,
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  application programming and you know one of the things that got
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  me into identity was the realization of how to determine
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  a managed device from an unmanaged device and if that
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  user is using a managed device or not, and one of the first
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  things we realized, well, you know, how can we Bridge an
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  identity to a device and my tie those things together?
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  So that Can have what's now kind of amounted to zero trust
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  principles like solving that problem.
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  Early was something that we were after Ann actually here at OCTA
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  octane. 2019 was where I kind of got a lot of inspiration for
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  some of those ideas and actually this conference crushed, the
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  initial idea that we had and ultimately evolved into some
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  better solutions that we ended up thinking through making.
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  So it was a learning experience. It was a learning experience.
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  Yeah. Eye-opening and soul-crushing at
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  the same time. So I am a fan of jam for a Of
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  reasons mostly personal selfish regions because anything that
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  makes it easier for Max and Mac OS in general to be more
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  prevalent in an Enterprise. That is mostly dominated by
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  windows at this point, right? Is good.
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  For those who aren't familiar with jams, give us like the 3060
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  seconds, sort of what is Jeff do and what are the problems that
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  they're looking to solve? Yeah so jams primary business
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  for the last 20 years has been just that making Manageable.
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  So they could work in the Enterprise or in schools and,
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  you know, organizations the challenge has always been that
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  apple is a consumer company. They focus on endpoint, you
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  know, and user experience and they kind of keep it is the
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  second you know player in that equation.
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  So Apple has though created a lot of Frameworks and stuff that
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  providers like jam can adopt to make those devices manageable at
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  scale and so Kind of what we say is we take, we're Apple leaves
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  off when it comes to enabling these things and bridge the gap
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  to where businesses and Enterprises like need for those
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  devices to operate within a Windows world and you know, need
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  all the security and management requirements.
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  So side question here, how I guess how much of a partner is
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  Apple in this and helping you get your products out there?
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  Like I hope they have to be aware of it, right?
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  Do do they help? Do they assist and they've kind
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  of drawn the line or is it something where it's made like a
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  frenemy situation, you know what is what does it look like, you
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  know, from your perspective? Know, so we're really well
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  aligned with apple. I mean we have a long history of
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  working with them. We adopted.
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  We were one of the first to adopt mobile device management.
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  Originally fun, fact, you know, we were originally of all about
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  like, mac Imaging but as Apple introduced to MDM, you know, we
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  saw that as the future and we adopted that first and we gave a
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  lot of feedback to Apple, and that kind of, really
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  kick-started the relationship from that point.
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  So we have as good of a relationship as you can with
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  apple, apple has a very secretive kind of way of
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  working, which is no different at the Enterprise level.
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  So we have our relationships with them and we're able to do
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  what we can. But, you know, we don't get
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  roadmap visibility. It's a lot of reading tea leaves
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  and those sort of things, but when you're aligned closely with
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  apple, you kind of have a better idea of where things are headed
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  and you can move that way. So you've got a cool title VP of
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  product, which, you know, depending on your Viewpoint.
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  Could be sounds really awesome. I immediately, maybe I'll take a
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  little darker place. I think of, you know, Breaking
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  Bad. If your product.
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  What is a VP of product do? Like what is your day look like.
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  Yeah so VP of product and I'm specifically VP of product for
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  our security division, okay? There's a division that is
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  management. So security is everything we
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  deliver with identity and access ztn a and kind of our security
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  stack. We have the management VP who is
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  responsible for Jim projet. Now, some of our, the, the
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  traditional management stuff. So my role is to really look at
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  how we have established our customer base with these decades
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  long as of relationships with device management and understand
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  how we can leverage that Apple device management.
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  Footprint to be able to offer more Security Services up the
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  stack because as Jim we're not going to move across the stack
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  where we're going to start to like dude, Windows management,
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  for example. So our option is to go up the
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  stack where, you know, now we need to think about how do we
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  bring identity to the platform? How do we bring in Point
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  Security and networking? And how do we provide a great
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  user experience around all that? That's what we say like apple
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  consumer-friendly, but, you know, suitable for energy
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  security teams and it teams to be able.
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  Manage the whole solution. So my role is to really identify
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  those opportunities. Make sure it aligns with whether
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  the market is headed, where our customers heads are at and then
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  enabling our sales team and marketing team to go out and
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  talk to that while also managing a team that actually executes on
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  the roadmap and builds those things.
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  We're going to talk about one of the sausage you just had last
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  night. Actually, that was really good,
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  but I'm curious from a like, a product roadmap perspective as
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  you think about it from like, okay, what are the us' or
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  capabilities that we're going to offer, I guess, where does that
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  inspiration come from? You know, there's things like
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  pass keys and Fido Alliance, which were very good friends
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  with and yes, have been part of that, you know, kind of Arena.
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  I would imagine customers are probably coming to you asking
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  for. Hey, can we do this?
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  I guess where, you know, where else does inspirational?
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  Because I would imagine you can't just be, you know, on on
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  Pace you need to be thinking ahead like that's very easy
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  industry going and Dissipating with those things are.
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  I guess it seems to make us very much a challenge, especially
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  considering how often things changed.
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  Yeah. And it and identity and specific
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  other are there any things you can kind of point to that would
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  help kind of bring that into context?
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  Yeah I mean so our very first, real identity product was Jam
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  connect and that was filling. A need that directly to your
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  point. Directly from customers
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  customers were saying, hey I have a I don't want to do 80
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  binding for my Mac and I really have no way to create local
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  Accounts at Scale with passwords and sink.
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  So we just, it was purely listening from customers and
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  actually an open source project called Nomad, you probably heard
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  about that back in the day, we acquired that and turn that into
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  Jam connect and made it into what it is today.
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  And that was filling that gap of bringing identity to the Mac.
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  Now, what I talked about yesterday and where we're
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  headed, Apple has realized. Well, that's a gap worth filling
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  because we built a whole product around here.
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  We've got a bunch of customers. So why not actually like build
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  that into the platform? And oh, by the way, Microsoft's,
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  Doing this for quite some time, too.
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  And there's probably some reason why Microsoft still has such a
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  footprint because they have identity built into everything
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  that they do on their platform and windows.
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  So, Apple's response is everything that they've
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  announced this year. So platform, single sign-on for
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  instance, is designed to solve a lot of those problems and
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  actually bring identity to the to the platform.
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  And the really interesting thing is, you know, this apple gave
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  some hints about this a few years ago with a single sign-on
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  extension. It's enables Al's you know
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  identity providers like OCTA and Microsoft to figure out or to be
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  able to deliver these kind of Fido.
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  We're both ends password list sort of experiences using the
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  secure enclave and and fingerprint sensor and those
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  sort of things on these devices. But what they were missing was
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  that deeper integration into the actual OS.
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  That was just kind of out that but application Level.
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  So now what they've been doing is they've been with these
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  announcements, they've really made it.
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  So that your first touch point with when you unlock your Mac or
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  log into your Mac. That is actually making it
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  really easy to enjoy those password list and single sign-on
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  and secure, Enclave, back and biometric backed experiences.
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  Once you start using applications on the device so
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  mad, I won't talk a little bit about the jam Jam fans to
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  company give a number of products.
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  You also solve a couple of different use cases, right?
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  So why don't we start there with what are the major use cases?
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  Then give us an idea of like the product landscape because I
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  heard you mention several products and I don't know how
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  they fit into the big picture. I'm assuming you ins like a
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  management project product and things like that and it sounds
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  like there's a secure Enclave product.
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  But, you know, maybe you should just educate us listeners and
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  practitioners on what yeah, what the pieces and parts are and
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  maybe start with the use cases. Yeah.
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  So most people know us Forge a 0 and the use case around that is
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  Apple device management. Its I have these iOS Or Mac OS
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  devices or iPads and Apple TVs. And I need to make sure that I'm
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  able to keep track of them. Wipe them deploy Wi-Fi.
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  Deploy apps. Make sure there's not, there are
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  vulnerable like, just very basic, like MDM functions and
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  kind of even if you have MDM for, you know, your windows to
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  your Microsoft device is you still would want to use Jam
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  because it's like more feature-rich and the idea.
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  Yeah, so it's an interesting question because, you know, you
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  would think that you EMS like, you know, you Unified endpoint
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  management tools like in tune would win the day but Mac is
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  such a unique Beast that it allowed us to build a
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  best-of-breed product that even was able to survive in spite of
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  you EMS. And in fact, Microsoft like does
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  what's called co-management with us.
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  So, you know, it's Microsoft Azure ID and some in tune
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  capabilities as well as our champ Pro and point agent and
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  MBM. So that's what we're known for.
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  That's where we've really kind of established ourselves over
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  the last again. Like Decades is what most people
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  know us for now, kind of alluded to it earlier.
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  We've had the option, you know, as we as we're now a public
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  company, we need to continue to grow.
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  We need to do more and more. So you know, an MDM and device
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  management only can do so much where we were, you know, going
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  into a lot of more markets where in all sorts of areas.
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  But you know, the idea is like, if we're not going to go build
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  an Android or we're not gonna be coming to uem because we really
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  want to focus on that Apple experience.
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  We think it's such a differentiated platform.
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  There's so much Which future opportunities to it, that it
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  makes sense to lean into that. So that's why we're leaning into
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  these other technologies that go up the stack.
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  So Jeff connect was the other thing that a lot of our
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  customers know us, for which is where we brought identity to the
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  Mac where the main use case is, I got this brand new Mac out of
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  the box. The default behavior is, hey,
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  welcome like create a new user account, local account, local
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  account. Let me go ahead and come up with
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  any random user name. Oh, and any random.
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  And maybe make it a sad and it's going to have admin rights and
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  must be, at least 4 characters. Yeah.
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  If it even has that. Yeah, and, you know, we we solve
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  this thing with out-of-the-box Device, enrollment, so, Jan Pro,
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  and Apple provide out of the box device enrollment.
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  So that Mac out-of-the-box use the serial number to provision
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  itself, into your MDM in our case, Jeff Pro, right?
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  Wonderful has nothing to do with the actual user account that
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  it's crazy. You could do some configurations
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  around what that's supposed to look like, but all of our
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  customers have said like that is Insufficient for what we need.
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  So champ connect is designed to do this kind of just in time,
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  local account, provisioning, with your identity provider of
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  choice. And it keeps the passwords in
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  sync between the IDP. You can do things like audit log
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  ins to the Mac, your identity provider because it's using like
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  all the web views and all that other sort of fun stuff.
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  So it's delivering some of this modern authentication capability
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  onto Mac OS. And so, we were kind of the
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  first to do a lot of that. And as we move further up this,
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  Back. We then also added things like
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  endpoint security. So being able to do things like
• 13:15
  looking for malware or risky, Behavior or devices that are
• 13:19
  straight out of compliance, is one of the things that we do and
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  then on the networking, even further up the stack, we have a
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  zero, trust network, access solution, that is highly
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  identity-based, we require that a user authenticates, whether
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  identity provider of choice again.
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  And then we use that identity to, you know, determine what
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  access users should have access to.
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  And well, again, we built the whole solution.
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  Lucien around this idea that vpns traditionally suck.
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  And so we want something that is well uses.
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  The VPN framework, it's using wire guard behind the scenes, so
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  it's super fast and it just takes a lot away.
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  A lot of that that pain of trying to manage private public,
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  private key pairs, you know manually.
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  We just kind of wrap identity around that put policies around
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  it and we get this full stack experience.
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  Let me ask about the wire guard because at Peak my my brain a
• 14:03
  little bit, it's a newer protocol for security and I
• 14:07
  think there's some times incompatibility issues that I
• 14:10
  With Hotel routers yet Hotel Wi-Fi.
• 14:13
  I'm assuming I'm sort of like fallback plan.
• 14:15
  Yeah, we did a great. Yeah, so it is an area where we
• 14:19
  are expanding on. Some of those compatibility
• 14:21
  things like captive portal networks on airplanes are the
• 14:24
  bane of my existence because, you know, you're supposed,
• 14:28
  there's a whisper protocol that's supposed to let the OS is
• 14:31
  allows you to, like gracefully handle the situation where
• 14:34
  there's not a default gateway, but we've just found a lot of
• 14:37
  these captive portal. Networks actually buy I passed
• 14:41
  that detection and intentionally continue on and cause problems.
• 14:44
  I am to the point where I have captive to apple.com as a
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  bookmark toolbar because I run in this problem so often so you
• 14:53
  know exactly what I'm talking about.
• 14:54
  Yeah, so, we're working on ways to improve that but that is,
• 14:57
  that is one of the challenges of wire guard.
• 14:59
  So, I heard you mention a couple of other things in your
• 15:03
  presentation. I don't think they're chapped
• 15:05
  products, but one must fast pass.
• 15:07
  And then, I know that the other is not yours is passkeys, right?
• 15:10
  Maybe talk a little bit about those and how they fit into what
• 15:14
  you're doing. Yeah, so many passes.
• 15:16
  So, yeah. So octave Fastpass is an octave
• 15:19
  technology that is acht has implementation of apples single.
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  Sign-on extension, on Apple platforms now, on Windows, they
• 15:28
  use other Technologies but they have OCTA fast.
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  Pass is the wrapping of the password list Technologies and
• 15:37
  secure Enclave based Technologies available on
• 15:40
  Windows. Hello, for instance, but also
• 15:42
  all the secure Enclave Tech on Apple Technologies.
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  It's the wrapping of that so that you can have these password
• 15:49
  list biometric web often based experiences using the octave
• 15:54
  verify application and so there's fast pass.
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  Then there's pass Keys which are also web authentic credentials.
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  Now, they're not necessarily the same thing.
• 16:04
  Octaves using their own kind of proprietary mechanisms to do you
• 16:09
  know for their credentials. You know, how to make fast pass
• 16:12
  work but you could use web often and other, you know, and and
• 16:17
  passkeys as a way of doing, you know, additional step up with
• 16:21
  medication or other sort of authentication.
• 16:24
  I want to preface this next question by saying, I love
• 16:28
  MacBook Pros and MacBook airs and you know basically the Apple
• 16:32
  products but from a security standpoint, I wonder you know,
• 16:39
  why wouldn't I A seesaw or CIO just want to have like a
• 16:43
  Windows. Only environment.
• 16:45
  Wouldn't that make it much easier for them is it that they,
• 16:50
  they have to do the the MacBooks or can actually be just a secure
• 16:54
  more secure than the windows environment.
• 16:58
  Yeah. So we get this question a lot as
• 17:01
  you can imagine being focused on Apple devices and Enterprise.
• 17:04
  So, you know, there's been this kind of natural growth where
• 17:07
  you've had creatives and certain business units and certain job.
• 17:10
  Really focus on Apple and insist on Apple and those.
• 17:16
  And you know, the security team said, well fine.
• 17:19
  If you're going to support that, we need some sort of device
• 17:21
  management. So you know, there's been this
• 17:23
  kind of natural attached of a services like jam Pro and device
• 17:27
  management to those Max. But what's been missing has been
• 17:31
  again higher up on the stack like how are you making a great
• 17:33
  experience with networking? And how are you able to make
• 17:36
  sure that the endpoint is secure from threat and the Frameworks
• 17:40
  and the Ecosystem, the Technologies haven't just
• 17:42
  necessarily been there when where they have been, it's been
• 17:45
  taking Windows Technologies and just kind of dumping them on Mac
• 17:47
  and you you don't get a great experience and also you've had
• 17:51
  the cost element of it like Windows have always been like
• 17:54
  PCS have just been cheap, like they've been a lot cheaper.
• 17:56
  The so when it comes to the actual purchase price, it's been
• 18:00
  cheaper to do that now, you introduce things like the
• 18:02
  MacBook Air with the M2 processor, where you're getting
• 18:05
  a lot of bang for your buck. That's definitely starting to
• 18:08
  change the game and from a support abilities.
• 18:10
  I'm Point as you have mobile device management as you have
• 18:13
  integrated identity coming along as you have Securities
• 18:16
  Frameworks and all these pieces that have been missing for the
• 18:20
  sea. So, to look at the platform and
• 18:21
  say, oh, that's the mature, enterprise-grade platform.
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  Those are all finally starting to come together and we see
• 18:27
  things like ought to Fastpass and our MDMA, you know, champ
• 18:31
  row and all of these kind of components come together to make
• 18:35
  it actually possible. So if we have, you know, all the
• 18:40
  tools in place for both platforms to have feature
• 18:44
  parity, right? When it comes to security.
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  I think there was relatively famously IBM, I think it was did
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  some sort of like study like seems like it was five years
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  ago. Could be ten, I don't know.
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  Time doesn't mean anything anymore where they found, it was
• 18:58
  actually cheaper for them to run a Mac as a standard device
• 19:04
  because there was probably a higher upfront cost of the time
• 19:07
  because it's what I'm pretty Apple silicon.
• 19:10
  But less challenges around support Hardware failures Etc.
• 19:17
  But I think one of the things they did call out was they had
• 19:19
  to have a very good strategy from a security standpoint to
• 19:23
  make sure that you just these devices were enrolled.
• 19:25
  And I guess the skeptic in me looks at this and says, okay,
• 19:28
  well I've got Windows, I've got some portion of my user base
• 19:32
  that wants to use a Mac. I already have Windows sort of
• 19:37
  MDM Licensing in tune through my Microsoft 365.
• 19:40
  And now there's this extra expense that I need to go to to
• 19:43
  adjust to support the Mac population.
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  And I think that turns off a lot of folks who are like, okay, I
• 19:49
  would love to do it, but there's a cost associated with all this
• 19:51
  stuff. Are there things that we should
• 19:53
  be thinking about in the, I am world to better support, our Mac
• 19:58
  brothers and sisters out there of which I am one of your own.
• 20:01
  I do both right if I'm equal opportunity but I do find that,
• 20:05
  you know, financially speaking. There is an extra cost today to
• 20:09
  support the mac and why It and I don't know what the right
• 20:12
  messaging is to get out in front of folks, and say, yes, there is
• 20:16
  or its comparable, or maybe there's some other sort of
• 20:19
  benefit to say. Yeah.
• 20:21
  We should have something like jam fright, to solve all these
• 20:24
  other issues. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:26
  So, I mean, a big part of it is you also, you know, some of the
• 20:30
  other trends that have happened to.
• 20:31
  So again, pricing is becoming more comparable, so the actual
• 20:34
  asset is becoming less of a huge different.
• 20:37
  I mean, it used to be the employee Choice when you would
• 20:39
  choose to do a Mac. You It like a MacBook Pro which
• 20:41
  was like starting 2,800 dollars or something like that versus a
• 20:45
  $900 Lenovo or something. And so it was just apples and
• 20:48
  oranges when I came to a price comparison.
• 20:50
  But again that's why the Silicon thing is such a kind of a
• 20:54
  game-changer a big piece of it but there's a ton of other
• 20:56
  elements in play you have, you know, employees with a, you
• 21:00
  know, the younger Generations that are used to iPhones and
• 21:04
  east of the Apple experiences and they're going to want to
• 21:06
  have, you know, device choice. And having a Mac option is That
• 21:10
  increasingly to pull the right, you know, the full top talent,
• 21:13
  they're going to want to have the choice to have a Windows or
• 21:16
  Mac device just throwing them with a Windows.
• 21:18
  You're going to get a lot of opinionated users as we go
• 21:20
  along. Also on the application stack.
• 21:23
  You know, a lot of traditionally Windows a lot of like that
• 21:26
  Windows applications only run on Windows but now increasingly
• 21:29
  everything's moved in the cloud in browsers or native apps that
• 21:33
  are just wrapped in a lot of cases.
• 21:34
  So you have this, you have this situation where the actual
• 21:37
  platform the OS that's running because less of a Of a hindrance
• 21:41
  to being able to adopt. So I think all those Trends are
• 21:44
  coming together to make it so. Well, if you care about user
• 21:47
  experience and yes you're not going to buy just one Microsoft
• 21:50
  license and get everything. But if you care about user
• 21:53
  experience and productivity and you know, and you to your
• 21:56
  question about identity, what can we do?
• 21:58
  Just integrating with the native Apple Frameworks whenever you're
• 22:01
  building applications or you are you just sticking to Modern off
• 22:05
  like as much as you can, let's just going to automatically
• 22:08
  unlock these excellent you. Experience Frameworks because
• 22:11
  apples investing in the underlying identity layers that
• 22:15
  as long as you as developers, create enrollment at are like
• 22:20
  side and experiences that leverage the native Frameworks.
• 22:22
  You're going to get 2 benefit in the Enterprise world.
• 22:24
  All these great innovations that are enabled by OCTA for
• 22:29
  instance, or other identity, providers, as part of that,
• 22:32
  yeah, wanted to ask one. Other question is, I'm trying to
• 22:36
  get a sense for what is the approach that you see?
• 22:40
  Most companies taking, what's where's the trend?
• 22:43
  Is it that they're allowing Max where they just traditionally
• 22:49
  outshine PCS like in desktop publishing and on the developer
• 22:54
  side, or do you see more organizations moving toward?
• 22:58
  Hey, we're a Mac shop. And then I've worked for a
• 23:02
  smaller company where it was BYOD, including right.
• 23:06
  The Jeff's up. So it was like, hey, you've got
• 23:08
  a stipend of 2,000 or 3,000 every couple of years.
• 23:14
  You can go out and buy your own device but we're going to manage
• 23:17
  it, right? Is that a trend that you're
• 23:19
  seeing more overall? What's the landscape out there?
• 23:23
  Yeah, overall the landscape today is you have pretty much
• 23:27
  every sized organization. Has some portion of Max, whether
• 23:31
  that's a hundred percent, 90 percent, 5 percent, 10 percent
• 23:34
  really varies bound, the industry upon, you know, the
• 23:37
  size of the company and like what sort of work they do, and
• 23:40
  what they're working. Workforce prizes of and also
• 23:41
  who's running 90 and how they think about their endpoint
• 23:45
  experiences and where they focus on and stuff like that.
• 23:48
  So today, it's a little bit all over the place.
• 23:50
  But again, we are seeing that that point earlier about the
• 23:53
  employee, that device Choice programs have been kind of
• 23:57
  skewed towards more expensive, like it's a premium theme for a
• 23:59
  Mac. So we are definitely seeing the
• 24:01
  trends of Max becoming a more open option for employees choose
• 24:09
  between like, you know, he's Just reserved for certain like
• 24:11
  job roles. But now, you know, more and more
• 24:14
  companies, especially the larger larger ones are saying, well,
• 24:16
  you know, we can put a Mac right there next to the Windows
• 24:18
  machine, when you're choosing. But very few are saying, You
• 24:21
  must have a Windows or you must have a Mac because again to the
• 24:25
  point of employee choice and be most productive on the platform,
• 24:28
  you enjoy is important. And like what we're trying to do
• 24:31
  on the jam side is again, make that consumer experience real on
• 24:35
  that that Mac device. So when you are presented with a
• 24:37
  choice, it's something you're familiar with.
• 24:39
  It's easy to use. Use the text stays out of the
• 24:41
  way. It's just there.
• 24:43
  Your point about byos really interesting.
• 24:45
  We're seeing a bit of a relative Revolution right now for BYOD
• 24:49
  because Apple has this thing called user enrollment which is
• 24:52
  this really light weight management Paradigm where you
• 24:55
  effectively create an encrypted part in encrypted partition on
• 24:57
  the device that's separate from all your personal apps
• 24:59
  management can only work in that encrypted partition.
• 25:02
  It cannot see anything happening outside of that.
• 25:05
  It doesn't know what other apps you have installed.
• 25:06
  Doesn't know what sites you're going to.
• 25:08
  It literally has no way to do that if they wanted to.
• 25:10
  It's private by Design is how Apple built it.
• 25:14
  So that is currently starting to really kind of make some waves
• 25:16
  on the mobile side of the world. So iOS iPhones and iPads you
• 25:21
  know, and watch the space for byop see or BYO Mac.
• 25:24
  You know, the idea of bringing your own Mac is really
• 25:26
  interesting powered by identity, is I in those identity
• 25:30
  experiences of like how you identify, you know, which
• 25:34
  applications belong to the organization and which ones are
• 25:36
  personal, and how do you enroll that that personal?
• 25:40
  It into an organizational xiety framework that has the right
• 25:44
  amount of privacy and security baked in.
• 25:47
  It's a lot harder to do on a Mac.
• 25:48
  Given the way that the OS is built, whereas iOS is a lot more
• 25:52
  sandbox to Nature. You have a little bit more
• 25:54
  control so but yeah watch that space.
• 25:58
  It's going to be very interesting.
• 25:59
  I think see what happens next couple years so this has been a
• 26:02
  very Apple discussion. Yeah yeah but I'm a fan because
• 26:05
  I could talk this this stuff all day and I'm sure you can and do
• 26:08
  as well. We like to end on a lighter note
• 26:11
  around here and I guess, here's my question, right?
• 26:15
  What is the best or worst product?
• 26:18
  That Apple makes all we can start with with you Matt and see
• 26:22
  if you've got a which one you want to go with?
• 26:24
  And we'll go to gym. You know, if I can say it, it's
• 26:27
  not a single product. It's kind of, I guess it would
• 26:30
  be like iCloud or like, you know, the whole unified
• 26:33
  experience. Like just the fact that I could
• 26:35
  pick up my phone and you know, start an email then go to My Mac
• 26:40
  and it just like transfers over or I could like tell Siri to
• 26:45
  like turn on a fireplace and everything just kind of works
• 26:48
  whereas you know some other ecosystems are not as seamless.
• 26:52
  I mean I think that's the beauty of it being like a full stack
• 26:55
  like they own the hardware and the software that they have a
• 26:58
  chance. Oh I have one, that's my worst.
• 27:01
  And I think everyone listening to this will appreciate if you
• 27:03
  have air pods the the the time it takes to get that are pod to
• 27:09
  connect to your phone and Actually get the audio.
• 27:11
  You want is it's insanely inconsistent.
• 27:14
  Like I find, sometimes it's like fast and it has every takes like
• 27:17
  a minute or two minutes. I said I just I don't know her.
• 27:19
  I'm just going to blame Bluetooth for that one.
• 27:21
  Yeah Jim. What about yourself the best or
• 27:24
  worst product that Apple makes is?
• 27:25
  So I'm like I'm not like into the newest gadgets So my answer
• 27:31
  is going to be nothing special but I think the Apple I think
• 27:37
  they're calling you the family plan but basically like Like
• 27:40
  apple music Apple podcast, Apple TV, like the amount of
• 27:45
  entertainment that you can get, think back to when we were kids
• 27:49
  who were buying like CDs. Do you want to listen to the
• 27:51
  song? Go buy a CD 1699 amount people
• 27:55
  like oh my gosh 20 bucks a month for.
• 27:58
  It's like a you have access to every song in the world that's
• 28:02
  like ever been recorded. Like it's amazing.
• 28:06
  So this is taking it back to the conversation.
• 28:07
  We had last night with Enrique and been around.
• 28:10
  Collecting like vinyl and albums versus y or just everything on
• 28:14
  demand. Like why would I buy something?
• 28:16
  It's like, it's true, that that's cute to have a wine.
• 28:18
  All like, I mean, I'm not trying to disrespect people were really
• 28:21
  into vinyl but you could never come close to the catalog.
• 28:25
  So I mean, for me that's that's where it's at.
• 28:29
  That's a good thing. All right, so I got to I got a
• 28:33
  best out of worse. The worst is without a doubt.
• 28:37
  Well actually, I got just thought it's like what I have to
• 28:40
  work. This one's the worst is the
• 28:42
  Apple mouse that you have to plug in on the bottom and like
• 28:46
  you can't use the mouse while it's charging because the
• 28:48
  charging port is on the bottom. So you just kind of sit there
• 28:51
  like a dead rodent on your desk, completely unusable.
• 28:55
  The other is the remote control for the Apple TV with that.
• 29:00
  Swipe. Yeah.
• 29:01
  Before they updated it which is still not great but at least
• 29:03
  step in the right direction. Oh I hate that.
• 29:06
  Touchpad is so bad. Is the clear weak spot.
• 29:10
  Of what it is. A very good streaming box the
• 29:13
  best and this is something I discovered today.
• 29:16
  Literally, when I was sitting here, I was copying something in
• 29:18
  my my iPhone some text and I just happened to notice on my
• 29:23
  MacBook sitting in front of me, it said, copied as like what?
• 29:28
  And I paste it, and it was the text that was on my phone, which
• 29:31
  is exactly what I wanted to do. I was about to like, you know,
• 29:33
  go to another app, drop it in there, or email it to myself or
• 29:36
  whatever, and it just, it was there.
• 29:39
  And it worked. I was like, Like oh wow.
• 29:41
  Like that is cool. Can I add a worst?
• 29:43
  Yeah and it's it's complaining about a missing feature so Apple
• 29:48
  carplay which I love love. Apple carplay but I don't see
• 29:52
  why you couldn't stream a video. To your video screen in your
• 29:57
  car. Be like Wireless Apple carplay
• 29:59
  even if it's not wireless, even if it's like USB plug, I just
• 30:02
  don't see why you couldn't. You could play music to it.
• 30:05
  You can do Apple Maps to it. Why couldn't you have like a
• 30:08
  YouTube video safety? Camping watching TV while you're
• 30:12
  out in the street anyway you'll find a way.
• 30:15
  That's my complaint, the whole driving thing.
• 30:16
  Yeah, it's like complaint that we're gonna jump jump on
• 30:19
  something there. Oh yeah, no I was just going to
• 30:22
  say to your point. It's like it's just they do a
• 30:24
  million little things, right? I mean it's just like these
• 30:27
  little tiny details that have taken again decades for them to
• 30:30
  get all tied together. But that's kind of their secret
• 30:33
  sauce, I think. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:35
  I'm a fan time in the ecosystem. What can I say?
• 30:38
  All right. I think that's been a great
• 30:40
  cover. Chef Matt.
• 30:41
  Thank you so much for joining us.
• 30:43
  You don't let me put you on the spot real quick before we go.
• 30:45
  Sure. I know a champ.
• 30:47
  I don't know who your competitors are.
• 30:49
  Who else does this? So, it's a good question.
• 30:51
  So I mean, we have on the MDM side.
• 30:55
  We've always been the traditional gorilla in the
• 30:58
  market, when it comes to Mac management and apple.
• 31:01
  Best we have other competitors that have come in like, kanji
• 31:04
  and Mosel that have really been like some of the other
• 31:06
  competitors that have started entering the MDM space and
• 31:09
  increased. The following the same strategy
• 31:11
  of moving up the stack with security and of course, we've
• 31:14
  got our friends at Microsoft, you know, doing a bit of
• 31:17
  everything. And, you know, we're working
• 31:21
  with them where we can and adding value, because you can't
• 31:23
  get away from Microsoft and they also recognize the value that we
• 31:28
  bring. So it's really that front of me.
• 31:31
  Sort of thing is exactly where we are, but that is, it's
• 31:34
  helping it is, it is, it keeps us motivated to keep on
• 31:37
  innovating and trying to deliver the best experiences and
• 31:40
  partner. Where we can too.
• 31:42
  Yeah, I guess I motivate you guys to kind of keep developing
• 31:46
  a staying far enough ahead. That that front of me again.
• 31:49
  Relationship exists since I like, hey, we don't need you at
• 31:52
  all. Yeah, one can lie.
• 31:53
  I think it's the entire industry.
• 31:55
  If you're not Microsoft and you're playing in their sphere
• 31:57
  of what they do, especially with Azure ID and with in tune and
• 32:00
  with Sentinel I'm sorry with Defender and all those other
• 32:03
  sort of things. Like if you're another security
• 32:05
  provider or identity provider, they're keeping you on your toes
• 32:09
  and I think that's really healthy.
• 32:10
  For the industry keeps everyone innovating not, you know I agree
• 32:13
  resting competition is healthy for everybody and yeah,
• 32:16
  definitely good. So I appreciate that.
• 32:17
  It was just something. That's, I guess space.
• 32:21
  There's only one identity podcast, like subscribe, share
• 32:24
  with your friends, right? All that good stuff.
• 32:26
  All right. We'll go ahead and wrap it up
• 32:28
  for this one. We're on the web.
• 32:30
  I dated center.com, we're on Twitter.
• 32:32
  At idac podcast, I'll have links to jam, find our show notes
• 32:35
  along with Matt's LinkedIn information.
• 32:38
  If you'd like to reach out to him which I hope is okay.
• 32:40
  What Just ask for permission just now and yeah.
• 32:43
  So I would definitely encourage folks to check it out again.
• 32:45
  Thanks to the entire Haka team for their support as well as our
• 32:49
  SM for their support in helping, bring these episodes to you for
• 32:53
  this entire conference. So we'll go and leave it there.
• 32:55
  Thanks everyone for listening and we'll talk with everyone and
• 32:58
  the next one. Thanks for listening to the
• 33:04
  identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard,
• 33:06
  don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity
• 33:10
  at the center.com.