Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #649 Finding Alex: A Russian Adoption Story, and the Relentless Love of God

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#649 Finding Alex: A Russian Adoption Story, and the Relentless Love of God · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a production of the John Paul II Renewal Center.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I am so grateful to have Jamie McAleer with me today.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: We almost didn't make it right, jamie.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: We had some technical difficulties, but anyways you're with me.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: So it almost didn't make it right, jamie.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We had some technical difficulties, but anyways you're with me, so it's good to have you all the way from Alabama, that's right.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: So what is the heat like?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: And you know I'm from Chicago, jamie it's been hot, but I heard there's heat running across the nation, right?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: It's pretty warm here.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: We're in the low 90s.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a little humidity down there too, right.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: We do.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: We got some humidity.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Good to have you with us.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: So there's so much I related to in your book.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I Will Come to you a story of adoption, the relentless love of God.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Let me just tell our audience a little bit about you before we dive in.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: She grew up as a Lutheran and wasn't until college that she first accepted Jesus into her heart.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: It was then that she met her husband, Jack I like that name and converted to Catholicism.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Both Jamie and Jack were major players in the growth of Krispy Kreme dynasty are the financiers behind 4 pm media.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: They're also on the board members of Legatus and the Franciscan University at Steubenville.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Jamie and Jack live in Alabama.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: They have three children and 13 grandchildren.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: So those kids are busy.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: It's awesome.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: That's right, Jamie you tell a wonderful story here and the importance of stories you bring out in the book, family stories, personal stories, passing them down to shape the lives of children and grandchildren, and so it's really a wonderful way to start and you tell the story.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: It really touched my heart.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: You downsized and you'll have to tell us a little bit about that, and you found this dusty box underneath the bed, and so, but before you get into it, let me just tell you a little bit about the sword behind me.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: It's a Claymore sword.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: It's a big sword, jamie, and it's an apostolate within our apostolate at the John Paul II Renewal Center that reaches out to young men, especially Gen Z men, who are searching.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: That's why I think your story is going to touch even young men's hearts, and so we have a lot of them joining us and, of course, the young women that love them and the family members that love them, and this podcast will go out to our general audience as well.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: But it's so many young people joining us and I think this story that you're telling not only adoption of a child, but being adopted children of God is going to resonate.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Let's tell a little bit about that dusty box and a little bit about downsizing and how that came about.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Well, my mom had passed away.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: This was back in 2016.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: We knew she had cancer, but it just all happened very quickly and I didn't have a chance to ask her more things.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: You know you think you have time, you think you have the chance to ask your more things.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: You know you think you have time, you think you have the chance to ask your mom or your dad or someone you love.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: You know, tell me some stories or help me remember this story.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: But all of a sudden she was intubated and she never spoke again.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: So my chance was gone and I learned a lot.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: So COVID Now, when that happened, to her.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So, covid, now, when that happened to her, she couldn't speak anymore.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: That was, it was done, it was over, you know she.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I sat with her for days and weeks, but she couldn't speak and that has to be so frustrating for a person not to be able to speak.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Me too, I bet you.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Oh my God.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: But COVID came, you know, and we had time.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: So my husband and I had my.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Jack and I had kept a journal through our adoption and one of my you know the things on your many lists.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I wanted to get it down.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I wanted to go back through it and write it down.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: So Alex knew some of the stories behind the adoption and so my son-in-law, philip, sat with me for many hours and I say it all in the book that you know we went through it and he helped me get it down.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: He's a writer and you know he guided me and encouraged me and so we got a good start.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: And then other folks happened.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I just kept working at it because I just wanted him especially to know.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: And you know, anytime I would mention to folks that we had an adopted child, or just little comments like that, they always seemed interested, especially him being from Russia.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: That's quite a, you know.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how many people make it to Russia in their lifetimes, but I never thought I would but I did.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: You mentioned in the book that you know, when you grew up.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: You're probably similar in age to me and I never ask a woman how old she is, but I'm getting up there.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: I was born in the fifties and you know you go through the sexual revolution, but it's always.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: The Cold War was going on too, too, and you mentioned, and Russia was the enemy.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: That's right, and you mentioned.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I never thought I was going to go to Russia, that's for sure.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: It was not on my list.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Not on your bucket list, jamie huh.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: No, it was a beautiful country and the people were wonderful, but they had a war going on then at the time in the early 90s, kind of like they do now at the time in the early 90s, kind of like they do now.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it was.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: You know 89 was when the Berlin Wall came down and you know that started to crumble.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of turmoil then.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I just want to back up a little bit because something that really touched me and I think it's important for our audience, especially for our young people, to remember, you know, to journal some of the stuff that happens.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: You know journaling is not like to me.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: You know it's not a diary.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Journaling is and I'm not saying this is exactly what you did, but I'm just saying in general, journaling is important because these important things that happen in your life that move your heart, it's important to write them down because, as you bring out so well in your storytelling, is that sometimes you have to look back.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: You know you have to look back at your experiences, you have to look back at things that happened in order to piece that together and see that God is working in your life.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Even when he doesn't seem like it, you know he's always going to take.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And you really touch me because, as you're telling the story, you see yourself in it so often and because this is your story, but it's our story, and especially stories of being adopted children of God.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: And before I forget, you know, to tell that story that the forward that Father Dave put in there about adoption, the importance in Roman law, do you remember that?
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: So, anyways, I'm going to.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I got to back off and let you tell your story, but I didn't want you to forget.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: You know, when you grabbed that box, you looked at these little red shoes and and I and I've grabbed the box of my kids when I downsize, so I'll just tell you this.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: So I downsized about four or five years ago and I pulled out these boxes and I sat on the floor, just like you, and you start looking through and ooh, it aches, right.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: So that's when you say I got to tell the story, right, and you start thinking about the book.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're kind of jumping all over, but that's okay, because it was much later.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: We were at the house that we had downsized from.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: It was a bigger home.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Anyway, we used to have guests come and they would stay with us.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: We were involved in our Catholic radio and we were involved in a lot of things like you mentioned.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: But Mike Aquilina came and he was going to speak on the radio but he stayed with us and he was talking to us about you know.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, we had shared.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: We have two daughters and our son is amazing, but he's adopted from Russia.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: So you had two, just for our audience.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: You had two natural two daughters.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, but he started talking about adoption and what a beautiful thing it is and how in Roman law, when Jesus came, adopted children were prized.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: That Roman could give up a biological child at any time, just disown them.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: But you could never give up a child you had adopted because you had chosen that child.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: So it was, whether it was legal or whatever, you could not give up your adopted child.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: They were more precious than the biological children.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: No, that was actually Roman law, from my understanding.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I didn't agree.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I love my daughters, but I love my son too.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just two different ways, but I think, but in Roma law, what it says and I think this is the beauty of the link you made with God is that I chose you, I chose you, you know.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You could have not chosen in Roma law right to adopt that child that's right, you know and could have not chosen in Roman law right to adopt that child that's right, you know.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: And I guess they thought biological children.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Look at, you know, I didn't have to choose you.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe you just came about somehow, right?
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: But with adoption.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: No, you made that decision, you knew what you were doing.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Whether you did or not, you knew what you were doing.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: And now Roman law protects that child.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: And this is such a beautiful story because you talk about, and we see in Romans and Galatians, about this adoption, of God adopting us.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: God chose us, of course, he chose us to bring us into the world, but then when we get baptized, ooh, we're adopted again.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I know I'm just trying to open this up to the audience so they get a feel, and so when you were talking about writing it, Well, it's true, Alex is.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: when we adopted him, he was almost five.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: He's now 35.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: So all those years, 30 years, you know, at first I, I could tell him, the stork stork dropped him off in the wrong spot.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: We had to go get him, and and that was great.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: But then, you know, we had to be realistic and explain.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: And he remembered, I know he remembered, but he says he doesn't remember, but anyway.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: So then we had to talk about adoption and what a beautiful thing it is and how much you know how we're all adopted.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: You know, I realized that again later on.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: You know, as you, you know, we're all baptized, we're all baptized into Christ and we become children of God and we're, all you know, adopted in that way.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: So, just trying to help him understand what a beautiful thing it is and what a beautiful thing it is in our faith, so that he just feels so good about it, so you have two natural daughters pretty quickly.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: But then you're getting to this point where you were talking about being a young girl and you know when you grew up that you had your parents there with you, but there was a certain joy that you were missing, like, ooh, you know we all do that.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: You know I certainly did.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: My parents were arguing and we were always ducking from plates being thrown and stuff, and you watch something more.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: And I speak to a lot of women in what I do and a lot of young girls, and you know they grew up with this dream right of being a princess.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: You know, I have eight grandchildren and most of them are girls and they all went through this phase of dressing up as princesses and they have this dream of the knight in shining armor going to pick them up and they're going to go out and you mentioned this on an adventure, this adventure called life, and it's supposed to be full of joy, and so many people don't even have fathers.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: You know, grow up without this experience.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: So take us.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Then you have two girls, and how did you decide then to adopt at that point?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Well, we were in North Carolina and Jack was with Krispy Kreme and I was 30.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: My friends were having a third child.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I thought I could have a third child, so we began trying and it just wasn't working.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: So doctors helped us and, you know, after some testing said it doesn't look like it will happen for you.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: And so then you know, I did think about adoption, but we had two children already, so we were low on a list for domestic, which I totally understood.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Again, this was now, you know, the early 90s and children were being adopted from Romania or China or lots of different countries, eastern Europe countries, and Russia had just opened up and they had established a link with our diocese in Charlotte, north Carolina Catholic Social Services.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: So it came, the article came in my Catholic News and Herald and talked about this new relationship and there was going to be a meeting in Hickory, north Carolina, and anybody who was interested in helping a child come and anybody who was interested in helping a child come.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: So you know, for me it was just like so easy.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: It was like it landed at my front door and so we did.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: We were some of the first to go to Russia from North Carolina, so we were the second to go, but before we got to go we went through a lot just with the process of all the paperwork.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: And then I had an issue with my paperwork and we were actually denied.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: But then our Blessed Mother and my belief and opinion interceded for us and we got to go.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: We got to go get Alex.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: So you know it was quite a story.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're going to adopt someone from, say, russia, do you have the information on that person then that they send you?
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: What is that process?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Because you said Alex was five.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Well, he looked three, but he was five, he was almost five.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: He turned five in April, right soon after he got here.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: So that's not a little infant, and so you knew that ahead of time.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Do you know his story, his backdrop on that, does he?
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: You know, isn't?
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: that something, not much, they didn't have many records, wow but it was easier for the Russians to place the babies, as it is here in the US, you know, within their country.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: So it was the children it was the little bit older children that they were looking to place, to find homes for.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So there were, you know, quite a number of children they were looking to place and we had little or no information on him.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: But we did receive a picture, which was a precious picture, of him being held by one of the mamas and he looked wonderful and adorable and, yeah, that's all we knew.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: He was blonde, blue-eyed and he loved to sing.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: That's what we were told.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about that experience, of that journey into Russia and maybe seeing Alex for the first time.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: What was that like?
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: It was unbelievable.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: It was a movie because you know, russia was very different 1994, and they were again involved in a war.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: We were a bit, we were very anxious.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: We brought our two girls with us, so that made us even more anxious.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: We wanted them with us to understand and to see.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: They were old enough, they were 10 and 7, so we wanted them to be a part of this process.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: But our contact, svetlana, was amazing.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: She was gorgeous, she looked like Mrs Claus and she was waiting for us in the Russian airport, in the Moscow airport, and they were travel agents and they realized, you know that they, when Russia opened up and there were so many children and they realized that Europeans were interested in adopting some of these children, that they kind of went into that business too.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: You know, okay, that they kind of went into that business too you know, okay, russians were finally free.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: They could make money, they could do things, they could travel.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: They were, you know, it was a whole new world, but they were excellent travel agents.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: So they took us all over the place in Moscow.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: We went to the ballet yeah, the Russian ballet and the Russian circus and all the beautiful sites, but they were there for us the whole way.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: They were really wonderful, but you know, it was still.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: We stayed at a huge one of the seven ugly sisters in Moscow that Stalin had created and it was the epiphany.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: It was Russian Christmas.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: What did you call it?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: The seven?
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: What?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: They were, he built seven hotels and they were called the Seven Ugly Sisters because they were very gothic.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: That's the communist way, huh, so you meet Alex.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, does he understand this process or what's going to happen?
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so tell us a little bit about that.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: We were told by our guides, by Svetlana and her crew, that the children in the orphanage were told that their parents would one day come back for them.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: So he knew.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: When we got there we had sent him ahead of time a Winnie the Pooh bear and pictures of us, and so he knew we were coming and he knew that we were his parents.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: That's what he was told.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Wow, I just got goosebumps.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: What a beautiful thing I mean that's really a beautiful thing.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Now he's not.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: He doesn't speak English.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: No, not at this point.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: No, and you don't speak Russian.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: And you don't speak Russian, right and so so, yeah, so.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: So what's that?
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Like you know, it's like I'm sure you just want to, you know, pour out these words, but I'm sure the body language spoke for you, and tell us a little bit about your faith.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: You know what you're feeling at this time and how you're praying at this time, because these are.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: You walk into a talk about an adventure, jamie.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: You walked into an adventure.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Didn't you Did, we did.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: And there are some highs and lows in my story.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty honest but honesty is helpful.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: But it was, yeah, he was.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: It was, it was a bit frightening, but he was ready and but you know, it helps so much to have our daughters with us.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: You know, he wasn't just him with Jack and I, it was him with Martin and Jennifer.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, those kids are pretty good at bridging the gap, aren't they?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: he did everything they did.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: He didn't want to get a bath but they got in the bathtub, so he got in the bathtub and he ate everything they ate, or tried it at least, and you know, it just helped so much to have them there.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, Jennifer was just two and a half years older than him, so he felt right at home.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, see, what a beautiful thing.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: And you get him home, you know, and at that point, who starts learning the other language?
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're going to start to teach him English and he's probably picking it up a little bit, right, they're?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Good at that age, at least you know.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: He was so he's so smart and savvy.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, no, he did great and our Catholic schools were great.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: They accepted him.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: He went to preschool and you know he, you know he just had some catching up to do and you know he was always probably a little behind up to do and you know he was always probably a little behind, but you know he had lost almost five years.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: He didn't know a lot.
• 19:05
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• 20:33
  Speaker 2: So somebody caught up fast and everybody was so great and helpful, but it was hard.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: You know, as you're speaking about that and we mentioned the Cold War in Russia already and you're thinking that maybe you know that you'd never go to Russia for anything right, they were the enemy, but you think about the beauty of the people.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: You know, I always think of St Paul with his, you know, in Ephesians 6, jamie.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: You know, we're not fighting against flesh and blood, but against the powers, the principalities and the rulers of this age.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: And we know from Our Lady of Fatima that you know that Russia was going to spread her ears.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: But this is the rulers, you know, this is the power, and underneath that are real human beings that desire to love and to be loved.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: We have to remember that, don't we, jamie?
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: That all over the world are these people, human beings, and especially the children that are looking for mom and dad.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, they're looking for love and joy, just as I was.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I agree with you, and the Russian people we met were wonderful.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: They, you know, svetlana, our contact, her daughter Jenny, beautiful young Russian woman, probably 28, engaged to be married, and anyway she was with us a lot because she spoke English beautifully.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: And anyway, she was with us a lot because she spoke English beautifully.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: But she picked up Alexander as we were saying goodbye at the airport, when all was said and done, and she told him how lucky he was to be going to America.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: He called it my America, but America, you know, it's true, we are so blessed in this country.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I do hope we all realize.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: We don't all realize it, unfortunately, and we can get into that.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: You know, we'd spent a lot of work on what we call stolen innocence and what they're doing to our children, right underneath our noses in these schools, and different things with you know, the sexualization for kids and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: But of my four grandparents, three of them were orphans and they came to the United States and they didn't speak English and you're right, this nation embraced them all.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: You know, they found the love and they, you know, they, found ways to raise families and et cetera, et cetera.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: So we can tell this love story.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: And my grandmother from Poland, jamie, brought the Catholic faith and she's the one that spread this little mustard seed to all of us.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And as I was reading parts of your story, and especially that desire as a young child right to find that something more Sounds like you found that knight in shining armor, by the way, jack and I want to hear a little bit about his story.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: But as we're going through this, we have to just keep our eyes open and it's God who does that.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: So tell us just a little bit about this faith journey and you know God gets us through this and how you start to—to tell us a little bit about how you start to link the story to your own story, to the story of your dreams, and also to God, who always seems to bring good out of evil, doesn't he?
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Well, like I said, I was raised Protestant and when I met Jack I was still Protestant.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I had one sister, but Jack came from a large Catholic family.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: There were seven of them and his parents, his dad.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: They were very devout.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: They came from families of 10.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: There are so many family members here in Mobile and Fairhope, which is why we moved here in our later years.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I fell in love with Jack the minute I saw him and it took me a while to get him to feel the same way.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: So I hung out with all his friends and they were all Catholic and you know, every Sunday they went to Mass, no matter what they were doing, whether it was morning Mass or afternoon.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: You know the last Mass on Sunday and I went with them and the first time I ever went to a Catholic church was with him at Auburn, and I can still remember I was amazed at how they all knew what to do and they all went up and received something and I could not because I was not Catholic.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: So I knew I was missing out.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So fast forward.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: You know we are married right after college and it took me a while to become Catholic.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Just because of our life, we moved to North Carolina and but I did and I've loved it ever since.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I still love going up and receiving the Eucharist.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I watch everybody.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: It's just amazing to watch them everyone go up and receive Jesus.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: It just is the most beautiful part.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: But anyway, when we were going through our adoption, we were actually denied by the United States government.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Our application was turned down and it's all in the story.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: So we went to—we were supposed to leave in like two to three weeks to go get Alex, but we were denied.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: So we went to.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: We were supposed to leave in like two to three weeks to go get Alex, but we we were denied, so we went on to Mobile.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: You were denied what?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Just to travel.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: We were denied our application.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Our application was denied, we were denied the right to adopt him.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Something that had happened and it's all there.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: But anyway, we went to Mobile for Christmas like we had planned and I was a basket case because I was just stunned and his family knew it and they were kind and you know, gracious, didn't ask a ton of questions but try not to get emotional.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: But one of the mornings there his mom came and found me and his mom.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I love his mom, she's in heaven, but she had this quiet faith.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: And she came and she knocked on the door of the bathroom where I was hiding and she brought me two holy cards and I think those were the first holy cards I had received ever.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: She said she wanted me to have them.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I really don't remember what she said, but I remember one of the cards was this I don't even remember that other card, but the card I remember was a prayer to our Blessed Mother, lovely lady dressed in blue.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: It was a prayer she had kind of grown up with with Archbishop Fulton Sheen and it's the story.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: It's the prayer of my favorites.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: huh, yes, our blessed mother and the son.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: God was your little boy, and so you know the way.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: And so for me it was just like you know.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I just I was on the floor of the bathroom praying this prayer that she'd given me, and I was, all I had was the only hope I had that this adoption could happen.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: And so we went home, and a few days later we got a call that we had been approved Our adoption, our denial had been reversed and we were free to go get Alexander.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: So all our plane fare, everything we had plane tickets, everything we'd set up our visas, they were all ready to go when we had a week, one week.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: We did and I give her credit forever that she made it happen.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: You know prayer, you know sometimes we say a prayer we don't realize that's what we do.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: You know people will ask me sometimes, jamie, you know, where is God in all this blah, blah, blah?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: And in reality, we are to make God visible in the world.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: And how do we do that?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Right, you know we're sacramental.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: You know we are these embodied souls and we reach out to God and, look, we get it.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: It's not always easy, right, to feel the confidence that God really has Jack and Jamie and all our listeners, you know, and he can count the hair on your head, but it's true and that's why the story that you're telling and all our stories, when we share that with kids, like you said, and grandkids, those are the stories, see, you know, as you go through and you can make those links, those connections, like you just did, you go, wow, god, really, he's the one that's going to bring me on this adventure.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: As a young boy, as a young girl, you want the adventure.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: You know it's going to be a battle.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, those are the three core things of a man, right?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: He knows life's supposed to be an adventure.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: He knows it's supposed to be a battle.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: That's where the sword comes from.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: He knows life's supposed to be an adventure, he knows it's supposed to be a battle.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: That's where the sword comes from.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: And the third thing is for beauty, and especially the beauty of love, the beauty of creation, but the beauty of love.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: And so God is the adventurer, he's the one that set this thing up, he's the one that will take us on the big adventure.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: And that's what you're doing, jamie You're connecting your story of your life to the larger story, and it's just beautiful right, it's beautiful If we're open.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: you know we're not always open.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Talk about that a little bit, because that's a very important point that you're making.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: You know God sometimes is dinging, right, he's sometimes dinging at you, but you make that point early on.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to be adventurous.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not the most adventurous person, but I am always seeking love, joy, chaos, what I didn't have, what I always wanted.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: We have a pretty chaotic life with all our kids and grandkids here, so it's pretty busy, but it's a lot of fun.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: You know it's hard to be open to the adventures of life.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: They can be scary, they can be expensive.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: You know children are expensive.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: But they're the best gift in the whole world.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: I'm close to my children and my grandchildren.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: That's my greatest joy.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: But that's why I share my story, because I long for people to be open, father Dave Pavanka, who wrote the foreword for my book.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: He's a very close friend, dear friend.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: He tells the most beautiful stories and very personal stories.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: He taught me to tell my story because he does In my foreword.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: He tells a beautiful story of his own.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: His dad was adopted, which is quite remarkable.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: It was more common years ago there were more children to be adopted.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't abort them all, did we.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: That's a whole nother topic.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that is true, but the point being that when a child is brought, no matter how that child is conceived, there are people out there.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: God has people ready to take them if you give him a chance, like you just said earlier.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: But you have to be open to this.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: This is very difficult.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I've gone through this with a young.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I used to be a professional chef years ago and I had a lot of restaurants and things and I want to talk to you a little bit about that before we run out of time with your franchise.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: But anyways, I had a lot of young women working for me and you know they would get.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Some of them got pregnant and some of them had those babies.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: And I can tell you this, that the ones that did some blessings.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: It was, just like you said, very, very difficult for them.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Some of them were only 17 years old, et cetera, et cetera, and they took that chance for some reason right on life and it worked out.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: You know, at the end, beautiful stories, you know, but we have to be able to have this faith.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: When we make a disconnection from faith, you know we live in chaos, but we don't know how to regroup.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: You know, god always gives us those ways to regroup, to come back into this story or at least to understand that he has a larger story and our life is participating in this.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: But if we don't see the larger story, jamie, sometimes we can't find our way back.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: And you see this, you know and you see so many children today 43% of every child born in the United States today is born out of wedlock and they don't know their fathers.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: You made this point.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: It stuck with me and, again, I didn't get the whole book because it wasn't published yet when we're having this interview, but I was able to read parts of it and you made that point in there that not everybody has this opportunity to have a father.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Because you relate a story, you say there's two things I really remember about my dad and you related a couple of things in there and when you were telling it, you said not everybody has the chance to do this, these simple things that we're talking about, right, and fathers get really busy and moms get really busy and sometimes they don't have the time for you.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: That you think, and when you look back at your life, you know the beauty of it.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: We can forgive them.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: You know, we can forgive our parents and vice versa.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: And God does that, doesn't he, jamie?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: He's the one that gives us the power to do that, that's true, because well, yeah, sometimes we don't even know what they went through.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Like my own mom, I didn't know so many of her stories, or they had been mentioned, you know, when I was little, or in passing, and I didn't remember.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I wish I did.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I wish I knew more.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's the gift.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I remember one time that when we were little boys I'm the oldest of five boys when we were just three of us and we were really young, I'm the oldest of five boys.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: When we were just three of us and we were really young, my mom got married when she was 18.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: She thought she was going to get rescued.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Long story there too.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: And anyways, my dad's a professional chef.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: He's gone all the time.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: She's got three little boys.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: She's only 21 years old and she goes.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I saw her crying by a counter one day and I look up at her and I just saw her looking down at me, crying and I was a young boy, you know.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: And looking back.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: It took me many years to look back for what you just said, jamie, and say you know, my mom sometimes was angry with us.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: She would even leave for a week or two at a time and we got, you know, upset and confused.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: But looking back, I go.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: You know she had these dreams and confused, but looking back, I go.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: You know she had these dreams and now she's coming to the conclusion that she might be just stuck with a bunch of little boys with no husband because he's working all the time.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Right, a professional chef sometimes is working all day and all night and man, we need Jesus, don't we?
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: For all these times we really do.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: True, it's true, he's there don't we For all these times?
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: We really do?
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: True, it's true, he's there.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us about the Krispy Kreme.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Was it your father-in-law?
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: that actually started that.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: No, he had Vernon Rudolph started it.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: But Jack's dad, joe, was one of the first franchisors.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: He was an early franchisor.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: He had them in Mobile and Birmingham and Alabama.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: So Jack and all of his siblings grew up in the donut business.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: They worked you know, all of them worked in the store went into other hands and it went up for sale.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: So Jack's dad and some other franchisors purchased it and his dad part of the deal was his dad went up to run it for a few years to get it back on track and we went with him because we were just out of college, we were free.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So that's how we landed in North Carolina, okay, and so your husband, husband jack, was working for them right, and so he, he, he was gone.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Uh, a lot too, wasn't it?
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: yeah, they were, that's not easy for a woman.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Let's talk just a little bit about that.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Jamie, a lot of times, you know you'll look at when I'm speaking to people, you know they feel this ache, right, I wanted something more, I wanted joy.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: So how do we get through this?
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: How did you get through that?
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: You know, because again you go.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I wish everybody was just here for dinner every night and I wish everybody didn't have to work so much and I wish my husband, you know, would listen to me and I wish my wife doesn't.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: She hear what I'm saying.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: And we have these.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: You know, we're just imperfect and the only way I think to overcome that, I know now, you know it's just you got to open your heart up to Christ and to his blessed mother and to our angels and saints and all these people God sends, and our neighbors and our friends and our family members, and start to look at them with the eyes that God did and to hear their story right, To understand what they're going through, Listen to them right.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Right, that's right.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Hear the story.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I love hearing people's stories.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it makes me feel better.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I learn things.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Well, how about your grandchildren now?
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Do they all live near you?
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: They do, they all live near you.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: They do they all see what?
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: How lucky are you.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: So now they're gonna.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: They're gonna be able to read this book, hear all these stories and they're gonna know something about you and about each other that they didn't know before.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: What a blessing.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: You know what, how?
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: What kind of ages are they, those grandchildren?
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: The oldest is 17, and we actually have 15, because two are in the womb, so we have 13 running around.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: The youngest is two of those and two come in.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: And then I have some in heaven which I totally believe and I know they're waiting for me and I look forward to meeting them one day.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: But yeah, they're a lot of fun.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I tell them stories and they listen.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: One of my stories is that when I was growing up I would ask my father, who had a funny sense of humor.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: I'd ask him, you know where my mom was?
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: And he would say always say, well, she got mad and left.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: So I would tell some of my grandkids, the older ones, this Now, how old were you when you when the story you just related?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I was many ages.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: It was the story I often got.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I most of the time got.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Wait now what happened to your mom then?
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: She died when she was 86, but she was never mad or left.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: That's just what he would say to us.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: He just was trying to be funny.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't really think it was funny but you know, as you got older you kind of came to expect it.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: But you know, it was just a different era, you know World War II.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: It was just different.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: That's how they'd grown up.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: But I've told my grandkids this, and so now my teenage guy grandsons.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: They're 13, 14 and 15.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: But every so often I'll say, well, where's your mom?
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: And one of them will say, oh, she got mad and left.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: And I just love it.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I just feel like they've heard me, they are interested, they remember.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just fun, fun.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: It's just so much fun to share things with them and and and open their minds.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: You know to beyond what they their life is like, which is cell phones and social media, and I just I want them to know that.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: You know there's a lot more yeah, so let's just you know as we.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: You know we've's a lot more.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's just you know as we.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: You know we've got a few minutes left here.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Let's just talk about that a little bit, are you able to?
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Are they all part of the Catholic faith or can?
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I even ask that, yes, are you able to?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: You know to how do they react to the faith?
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: You know, again, in this time of cell phones and social media, are you able to you know to how do they react to the faith?
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: You know, again, in this time of cell phones and social media, are you able to you know any secrets there or anything?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Because you know again, you know, we have parents listening that are always looking for ways to make a connection with those kids through our stories, through you know, and Jesus is a storyteller, isn't he?
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: He loves to tell stories.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: And this will be my last point I'll throw back in your lap is that these are timeless.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: When you speak about the truth, you're speaking about timeless stories, stories that, as you mentioned in the book, that they have power.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: When you take the truth, you put it into a story, you personally witness to it.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Ooh, it has power, doesn't it?
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Jamie?
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: It does.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: It does it does.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Yet another story one day I longed to tell was you know, jack was busy in Krispy Kreme and we had a youth minister come to our parish.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Jack found him because Jack grew up with youth ministry and he loved it and that's where his faith comes from.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: So he wanted it for his children.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: So he brought this youth minister and his family His name is John Beaulieu, john and Lisa.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: They came to our parish and they rocked our world at least mine.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: That was part of our faith journey.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, youth ministry became crucial to my children.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: They loved it.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: They grew up with youth ministry all through to my children.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: They loved it.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: They grew up with youth ministry all through their middle school, high school and then they went to college.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Some of them went to Franciscan University of Steubenville, which is where Jack came from.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, one son-in-law was a youth minister for a while and my other son-in-law is head of theology at the local Catholic high school, and then Alex actually works for EWTN.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Alex does.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And he's the one who had the contact for me to publish this book.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: It was all his idea.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: So if anybody ever wonders what he thinks about it, it was all his idea.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: He said I know someone, devin Jones, who works with EWTN, who works there, and he said send it to him.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: So I did.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: So that's where we are.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I feel good about that, that Alex wanted to share his story.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: So everybody's doing great.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: So the kids are all very, you know, I mean they're on their own journey, the grandkids.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: But you know they see it and that's just the way they're raised.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: They're raised to go to mass and youth group and you know, love the Lord, yeah, and how about Alex?
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Does he?
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, is there any reason, or does he have any inkling to know any more about Russia as a country, or you know that kind of thing?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Does that matter as they get older?
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, he's very proud.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: You know he's savvy.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: He does all the media for a lot of the media for EWTN We'll have to meet him one day.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to get him on the show.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you would love that A media special.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Invite him for me.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Will you ping him for me?
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I will.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love to put kind of a part two on this show, Jamie.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: He's looked 23andMe Ancestrycom to see, but I just don't know.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, nothing so far has ever happened.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: No connection.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: But their second child, uh, is a little girl old.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Their little two-year-old son is named simon and their daughter, will, is planning.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: The name has been given to us as anastasia, which is a good Russian name A great name too Good.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Russian one, so he's very proud.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: He'd love to take his wife Laura there.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: It's just, you know, it's got to be the right time for them.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, there's a lot going on there now.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot going on everywhere in the world, and that's why it's such a joy to have you today, jamie.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: And when you look around the world, you can get discouraged in a lot of times.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Right, there's a lot of chaos, a lot of craziness, but even though historically we may be in unprecedented times, but these wars and these battles and the craziness has been going on ever since.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: You know, history began right away from the garden in Eden.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: The answer is still Jesus Christ.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: You know, for us, isn't it?
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: You know, if you want to solve the problems of the world, you know that's the two great commandments.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Love God, you know, let him pour into you and then go out and love each other.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: And if you don't do those things, you know, the chaos just continues.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: So God bless you.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I don't like chaos, but he's the way, the way to life.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: It is, so tell us where can we get the book and where's the best place to buy it is the best place to buy it.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: It's on ewtn, their site sofia, press their site and they're connected.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, you can get it on amazon, but I think that's a little bit after, I think you know okay, so it's ready then I.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: I think it's coming.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know if they've been sent out yet.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I don't have one yet well, we can pre-order.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: if not, so Amazon pre-order we can go to Sophia EWTN.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, very good, very good.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Thanks for uh, thanks for sharing the story and I'm going to say goodbye to everybody here.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today, but you hang on, jamie, just for a minute, will you?
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Goodbye.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Goodbye, thank you.