Latest / Skin Anarchy / Dr Ben Johnson, founder of OSMOSIS skincare

Transcript

Dr Ben Johnson, founder of OSMOSIS skincare · Skin Anarchy

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta, and today I have with me Dr.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Ben Johnson, who is the founder and mind behind the amazing skincare line Osmosis.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome, Dr.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that you had the time to come on to our show.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a pleasure.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure is truly mine.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love for you to uh get us started by talking a little bit about your career background and um the journey that led you to create this line.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh it was an atypical journey for sure.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh in uh in residency out of medical school.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was planning to become a sports medicine doc.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in training for that and heard about laser hair removal and uh basically started uh a laser aesthetic clinic uh while I was in residency for sports medicine.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And somewhere along the way, the the residency is like, well, you can't do both of those.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, really?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh my heart led me to uh to doing basically aesthetic medicine, and then um while I was in that um uh learned the hard way that there's a bunch of BS in this industry, in the aesthetic industry.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, for example, like I bought a bunch of lasers that were supposedly permanent for hair removal and and they weren't, and then I bought a bunch of skincare that was supposedly did this or that and it didn't.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then you know, I even learned uh that uh even though I was doing you know Botox and injections, and this was you know 20 20 years ago, roughly, um that uh I wasn't uh I wasn't a fan.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really come full circle from uh and so I ran a bunch of laser clinics.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I tried to uh you know start a nationwide chain.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up having about eight in four states before um uh really just not knowing what I was doing and hiring my high school friends to be the managers of these clinics uh led me to shut the shut those down.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but what the cool thing that came out of it, and you know, I think everything happens for a reason.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the real important thing that came out of that is I uh started formulating my own line back then.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was called cosmetics, still around today.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, and I uh and it did well, and I and I found that I had a knack for it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh a few years into that, I um started a second line that uh is osmosis today, and um and it's really just a it's a complete 180 from uh most of everything that's taught in the textbooks to aestheticians.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a 180 from most of what dermatologists uh might uh recommend.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, to be honest, it's exactly what the industry needed.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and we were just talking right before we started this podcast.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I love the name skin anarchy because uh we need this.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like this industry was just uh just not much better than a bunch of used car salesmen uh hocking hawking, you know, ingredients that really didn't have uh the efficacy uh that they were claiming.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I I couldn't do that anymore.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when I started my second line, uh uh you know, I I focused on that.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, along the way, I uh I realized that internal wellness was a critical piece of the puzzle, and that a significant number of skin conditions are actually coming from internal imbalances.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's uh we ended up uh where we're at.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's an excellent point that you uh actually mentioned that because you know, I always wonder when I see a skincare line that's backed by uh, you know, a medical professional, I always wonder um what the real, you know, what the journey for that was because we see so much, right?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the medical field, you see so much, and then to be able to apply all that knowledge, um, it has to be in a in a meaningful way.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I I just want you to talk a little bit more about the 180.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like what was what was missing in the space that you really wanted to correct?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and let me just say, you know, not to uh diminish every single brand that's out there that's run by a physician, but I can tell you the 99% of the physicians that have skincare brands don't do it because they're passionate about skincare.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, they do it because they're like, oh, that sounds like an easy way to make money.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Have you heard about the profit margins you can make?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that is the focus, and they tend to make products and they tell the labs, listen, whatever you do, this product can't cost more than a dollar in raw materials.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, and so uh they just never get to where uh where what's you know, they they don't my focus has always been cost be damned.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I can tell you, we use one of the top labs in the country.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: We have used several labs, but but one of my main labs is one of the top labs in the country, and they tell me my products are the most expensive products out there, and that's because I at no time did I think about what the cost of the ingredient was.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not totally true.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Some ingredients I did not use because it would make the products a thousand dollars or something.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at no time was that the main focus.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: The main focus was well, how do I get it?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, where is my 180?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, where should I start?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, um start from the beginning.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's the best place most of the time.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: The 180, uh, that one of the first things I learned, and and um there's this um there's a philosophy in the industry called corneotherapy.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not unheard of.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've run across it, but it's basically the philosophy that your skin does best when it's in a healthy state.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the industry for the last 30 years has focused on exfoliation as a strategy.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they have focused on lasers and trauma-based rejuvenation, which is a farce.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, they're they're uh when you burn your face with a chemical or a laser, you create DNA damage that's permanent.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: You don't you create wound collagen.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they they go in and they measure in their studies about how collagen increased by 25% a week after we applied this amazing chemical.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but they don't see that there's different types of collagen.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I thank you for saying this.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, please continue.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and so you know, the skin when it responds to being burned, it does create collagen and and it's it's collagen to repair the wound.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not a net gain, it's not a rejuvenation event.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the but the trick, see, this is they always have their their gimmick.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: The gimmick is turns out when you burn the bejesus out of your face, it swells for a week or two or four, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so people are like, whoa, my wrinkles are better, doctor.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, for two weeks, and then you know your body for being in a state of stress right now.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Trying to overcorrect.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I became very disenchanted with uh all of that.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And even in my first line, I still had some what I called, you know, more gentle uh chemical peels, but they were still chemical peels.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it so this was this has been an evolution for me of awareness.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, so I'm a believer in preserving the barrier.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh exfoliation is almost never necessary.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you go into your esthetician and you get a you know, a light facial that involves some exfoliation, that is not gonna slow anything down, not slow any of the progress down.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the daily exfoliation, the daily application of like glycolic or lactic or salicylic at any significant dose, uh, and the dose does matter.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like you'd certainly there are products out there that might have acids in them, but they're neutralized, so they're not really, but they're not doing much anyway.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: They usually don't sell very well because they people don't see any response on their skin.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, that's what people get attached to.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if they knew that by exfoliating, you not only dehydrate your skin, so they're like, My skin's dry, I need more exfoliation.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's actually what most dermatologists say.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, and I'm a general practitioner, so by definition, you know, after my residency and everything, I I've uh I'm officially a general practitioner by definition, but I consider myself a skin expert at this point.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm 20 years in.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have treatments for almost every skin condition, which I know sounds outrageous, but once you realize that most skin conditions are caused by toxins or pathogens, um, and you address those, you know, you can get to the root of the cause and help people with a lot of things.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um, what else on the 180?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, the other part about exfoliation, which is crazy, is people exfoliate to lighten their brown spots.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes, it's true that if you rush the skin, um, that it will have less time to repigment those areas, but they should know that the reason why you have brown spots is because your skin is trying to protect something there.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just taking them randomly.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's an excellent point.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I just want to add um from the medical side, I just want to like add to what you're saying that you know, any other organ in the body, you don't, if you have a fatty liver, you're not going to like take, you know what I mean?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like um, I don't know, like cholesterol medicine to get rid of the fatty liver.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's there because there's there was something going on, it's not gonna correct overnight, you know?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like any other organ in our body, we we look at it like, okay, well, give it time, let it heal, let it, you know what I mean, go through the natural process.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I always wonder why we don't do that with skin.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's like you can't keep bombarding it, like you said, with irritants and then expect it to, you know what I mean, like be very, very healthy.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So and so there's another part of my 180 is that the vast majority of the quote unquote treatments for uh irritated skin are around the idea of uh immunosuppression.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you use certain toxins, um, yeah, you're gonna like what's a steroid?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone thinks, oh, a steroid is treating my rash.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, a steroid is doing the it is uh it is it's a terrible thing for your skin.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Your skin um you know declines in quality and and uh and it and all it's doing is basically kneecapping the immune system.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to the real question you should ask is, well, why is you why do you have a rash?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's something that caused the rash, not what steroids should I apply to it.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's part of it.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I found in acne most of the time when people are using acne protocols, um, it's an immunosuppression.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a unique view of acne.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think acne is a toxin purge, it's not about a bacterial infection.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh the skin is a uh it is, you know, it's a really special microbiome that uh is really resistant.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, they show that if you apply antibiotics to your skin within 90 days, the skin stops being responsive to them because it figures that like all the cells talk to each other and go, hey, yeah, this is how you work around this.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, I don't believe in immunosuppressing.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um good, I don't either.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like honestly, I don't either.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is a really, really like just such an important point.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot emphasize enough.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone listening out there, like, please take notes of what Dr.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson is saying.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because honestly, this is something that has perplexed me for years now, is that the same idea of immunosuppression.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why, you know, a lot of times um when I interview brands, I bring up the idea of managing inflammatory, you know, processes that are leading to this rather than just this approach of topical skincare and you know, hoping that okay, it'll eventually go away.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I have redness on my skin.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, if I wash it enough or if I moisturize it, it's gonna go.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, figure out why you're breaking out.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I completely, I completely understand you and I completely agree with you.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I like that there there aren't a ton of like-minded people in this industry, so uh that must be why we are um hooking up on this podcast.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I, you know, even when it comes to rosacea, like it was such a funny thing.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So for for a decade for 13 years, I've been saying rosacea comes mostly from digestive problems.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I say mostly because I've only recently learned there is uh uh maybe a five percent of the population where their rosacea is actually a liver condition.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, um uh the the funny thing was like I would say it, I would tell the you know, my fellow physicians and dermatologists, and they would just kind of roll their eyes.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then about five years ago, they came out with a study, and they're like, Well, what we've found is that rosacea people are much more likely to develop a digestive condition.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I looked at the research, I was like, no, no, you guys have totally flipped the data.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like yes, and so it was fascinating to me.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was, you know, I don't know, years ago, I was googling random stuff, and uh I've somehow pulled up an article from a um it was a British Journal of Dermatology um magazine from like 1930 or something, and it literally said Rosetha was caused by digestion back in 1930.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's happened in our industry if people are trying to understand, well, wait, what why are why are the dermatologists getting it wrong?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: The answer is they're they're brainwashed by medical school and residency, where they're told drugs are the solution.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, you're not supposed to explore and try to figure out the source of the problem, you're only supposed to manage the symptom.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, that got pushed even further when you know the way the insurance manage it, they like, hey, if you can see a patient and write a script in five minutes, you can see 400 patients a day.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a greed thing, unfortunately, and it's a big pharma controlled thing.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, the derms will tell you, oh, we can't use anything unless it's been run through the FDA trials.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you know, though that kind of uh closed-mindedness is why I think more and more people are seeking alternative, and they say that like 60% of people seek alternative therapies outside of Western medicine um for their needs and and thank goodness.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I completely agree.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it's interesting.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk to you about what, like, what were some of the pillars when you were designing your line?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: What were some of the things that you really wanted to address?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, skin concerns that you felt, you know, you know what I mean?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: What was the the founding basis?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I, you know, uh, I and again, uh people also have to understand that it even these 13 years have been an evolution.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So uh in the very beginning, um, obviously when I was focusing on aging, um the the focus was on, well, what actually um can make a fiberblast crank out more collagen?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I started to review, and and in my first line I mentioned I had used regular retinol uh and all transretinol, and I was all focused on, you know, if transretinol is better than cis retinol.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but what I learned was in fact, you know, the skin has a variety of vitamin A's in it because it has a variety of uses for them.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it wouldn't be storing uh the various, you know, uh retinol palmitate versus retinol versus retinaldehyde versus retinoic acid, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so what's what stimulates collagen is is retinoic acid, and the skin does not store that, it makes it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so you go and you look, well, what's the most efficient way to make it?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it turns out it's retinaldehyde, which is you know the precursor to retin A.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, I began, you know, one of the pillars was uh learning that most retinols are actually not creating collagen the way people think they are.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um what actually is happening is most retinols are um irritants to the skin, and so they cause exfoliation, which can generate more collagen because the skin is now increasing its turnover rate.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so people are like, Oh, good, increasing turnover is good.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: You only want to increase turnover on your skin's time.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: See, I'm a big believer that your skin is brilliant, and you are you need to nothing you do should be second-guessing how it operates.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if your skin turnover slowed at age 45, Mrs.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Jones, um, I have a good explanation for that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Your blood supply has declined by uh roughly 15, uh 20 percent by that time, and and so declines by about 1% every year.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what your blood supply is what's feeding the nutrients for the skin to keep up its metabolism and turnover rate, and so it's it's sort of adjusting.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, why does the blood system, you know, there's also some aspect of my view of it too, listen, part of like I think hormones are supposed to sunset over time.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't look at a 20-year-old's testosterone and go, shoot, I need to be picking pills for that.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's true with the skin, you know, you don't need to be forcing the skin faster than your body can handle in a holistic way.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we we think we take this view of um, you know, when it comes to age reversal, um, and I do think we're actually creating permanent age-reversing effects, um, you've gotta you've gotta address the DNA.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I looked for the best DNA repair uh ingredients I could find.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to address um uh, you know, collagen stimulation in a way um where there's no trauma, because anything where you hurt the skin to create collagen, obviously it's not as we just talked about, it's not gonna be a net gain in in youthful collagen.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be wound responses.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was about how healthy the system has to be.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I focus now a lot on internal health.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a lot of people who whose skin doesn't get well because their, you know, their diet's terrible or their gut is in terrible shape, or um Yeah, you know, that's one of the biggest things, right?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is gut health when it comes to skincare.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very, very curious about that because I know that, you know, there's so many, obviously, there's so many pathologies that stem from just bad gut health, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like for skin, I always wondered in terms of like acne breakouts or you know, all these different things that we're constantly encountering.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's a direct link between what we eat and what we, you know what I mean, what we see on our face.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I completely, I completely agree with you.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that, you know, I think that it's interesting that the medical research in dermatology is not focusing on this, like, you know, again, holistic approach.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: They're focusing on this is the organ that we're treating, and we're just gonna bombard it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's something that's always never sat with me well.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, in terms of okay, so I want to focus on your line and I want to talk about how it's you know, all the products that you have, like how they work together.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to really go in depth um in the science if you can.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: How long is this podcast?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: It can be as long as we need it to be.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, well, let's uh, you know, just to speak to gut health, absolutely.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and the crazy thing is people don't even know how much, like uh they're they think they're taking the good supplements and they're like, well, probiotics are good for you, right?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's got and I mean I can't tell you how many people I've found who are gaining weight because of their probiotic or who are um whose gut is in uh disrepair because of it.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, there's so many conditions.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Candida is a huge uh component in skin.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've learned uh the connection between candida and acne.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So all most acne of the upper face is candida generated.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what's happening is the excess candida creating toxins that go into the bloodstream and they dump out of the skin based on a skin map.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if you've seen my my map of the face and the connection with organs, but over the years, I've spent, you know, I spent a ton of time analyzing the skin of my clients and my clients' clients and connecting it with their medical history and going, okay, I see a trend here.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um more, you know, it's a super exciting piece of the story is to know how the skin maps out, like your eyelids, upper eyelids, or adrenals, your lower eyelids or kidney, your forehead is your colon, uh uh large uh large intestine.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, your nose is your esophagus, um, around your mouth is is uh the end of the colon near the rectum.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like all these different things line up.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So to speak to the products, one of the most exciting new products uh I uh came up with is a prebiotic.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I do not believe probiotics are good for the body.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I believe your DNA uh uh is actually uh what decides what your probiotic population is, and it's not about because you know what's crazy to me is in the literature they say that your microbiome is created in the first two years of life.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So depending on what you eat, uh it determines your microbiome.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that that's just silly to me because it's like, wait, so infamil, like all the babies that had took infamil formula, I have microbiome.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not happening.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So uh and you don't get like you're getting crazy, like you know, there are there are thousands of of um probiotic strains.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean thousands and thousands.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if the number is a hundred thousand different strains.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, the idea that, oh, because you ate Gerber baby food, and you know, like, oh, you had that that piece of it, it's just silly that food is going to be the source of that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is not.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um, based on that, I decided that what was really needed was a good prebiotic.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the science was showing me that prebiotics mostly had a bias.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of prebiotics that you take, like some people think, oh yeah, like sauerkraut.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, sauerkraut tends to promote uh uh uh what it was fermented with and specific strains.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, inulin uh promotes uh lactobacillus, which causes weight gain and distorts the anyway.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So um we're using um macadamia nut and sea buckthorn oil um and very specific blends uh between the fruit, seed, and pulp.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it has uh it's a superfood, really.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so it feeds the micro.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Biome recovery.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it takes about three months for the average person to restore their gut as long as they're not on anti acids, as long as they're not on um, you know, uh uh another probiotic formula, um, they will get their own gut back.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's uh one of the internals um and the science behind it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: The really cool thing is I I dual track that.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I was also looking to restore facial fat pads.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, yeah, what right now what we have in the industry um and in the world, honestly, is filler face.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Are you familiar with that concept?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's cheeks are you know an inch out and they're they no longer they all look the same, they all look like they're related because they filled their whole face up with filler to to stretch out their wrinkle.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so what this does is this fills the fat pads you lost from when you were young.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the exact shape of your face, but it's plumped, and um, it's a fantastic way to get that done.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: That that's a really um I think that's a very, very new concept um that people probably, you know, they haven't really gotten on board with that.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, it's mostly the education around it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to fillers, um I've had some dermatologists tell me, you know, well, Botox and fillers is the way to go if you're aging and you don't like the way you look, but then, you know, it it has, I've had the same questions because I've personally never gotten Botox or fillers, you know, and I'm in my mid-30s, and the main reason is I don't want a temporary fix for something.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if my skin is going to be wrinkled and it's wrinkling, I don't want to just pretend like it's not.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather focus on healthy skin so that I don't develop skin cancer later on, you know what I mean, or like or other things like sensitive skin or thin skin.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and none of that addresses it.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in the old days, everyone was getting a facelift, and they and that doesn't help skin get younger either, right?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: That just distorts your your look as well.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so yeah, this idea of using your natural fat pads and replacing what was lost uh makes so much sense to me.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry about that, makes so much sense to me.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's I mean the results have been incredible.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I encourage people to check out our before and afters on the uh uh on how what how your face restores that youthful uh plumpness.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, but other things you mentioned is Botox.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Botox is is proven to go to the brainstem in a uh British uh medical study.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I don't know why people like people you're a it's a neurotoxin.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we injecting our faces so much with it?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I hear you, and of course it's gonna go to the brainstem.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like I said, it's a neurotoxin.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I've never understood the concept, you know.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the other part of it is it also kills your muscle.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: So over time, your muscle becomes uh thin and weak, and your face starts to droop from it.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So these people are getting Botox and they're like, Oh, I'm doing good for myself.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and you know, kids are being told to do it at 20 something.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: What are they doing?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what ends up happening is they get to 30 and their face is all um uh that's you know, muscles quite a bit of the volume in your face holding up your you know your skin, and so you lose that, and now of a sudden you're like, Oh, now I need fillers, and yeah, and you know, fillers last 10 years uh plus, so you end up being all lumpy, and every you know, you have to go in all the time to like put a little bit of filler next to the lump you've got left over, and uh it's a horrible, horrible path to go down.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: If it if the young kids are listening right now, don't don't buy into the Kim Kardashian look, it is not natural.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she looked a lot prettier back when she was 25 than she does today, in my opinion.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I agree.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I agree as a woman, I can say no.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, no, I think you're making a great point.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I honestly think that, you know, one of my biggest, like I've thought about this obviously a lot.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have a podcaster about skincare.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you know, one of my biggest problems has been that um we don't we don't have the medical literature, right?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: So like we can't even rely, in my opinion, on FDA approved products because that's still not addressing the concern because there's just not research there backing it, right?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, like until I see that, until I see like a huge volume of data that says this and this and this works, I just it's very hard for me to believe any skincare line um that's just something like that somebody came up with in their kitchen.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like there's no way that you have any claim on saying this is gonna improve your skin health.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: We don't even know the you know the mechanisms involved in like you you mentioned collagen production.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know um, you know, what's stimulating the right collagen or not, or not as much as we should know.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's just a huge problem.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's no money, there's no money in uh doing uh a bunch of trials on uh the negative effects of retinol.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not gonna tell us about those.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's no money in um, you know, they'll go in and they'll get basically most FDA research is funded by big pharma.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they're you know, they're going down a path to prove something that enough oftentimes they know how to manipulate the data.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: They just so even if you're looking for the FDA research, you can't really trust that either.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, you know, uh well, great example that's totally off topic, but like antidepressants.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, oh my gosh, yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: This big scam.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: The FDA, I mean, they had to do 10 different studies to just barely get above placebo results and a few of them to get approved.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm just telling you, like most antidepressants are placebo effects.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and people get addicted to them and then they're stuck on them and they can't get off of them.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway, so it's another story for another time.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you know, back to back to the science of it.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll tell you just some of the science that I focused on because I think you know, going into every product is going to be yeah, no, I want you to tell me the pillars, like the big one.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: The pillars, that's great.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we talked about collagen.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, part of my science was um I had to stabilize retinaldehyde because retinaldehyde is the best retinol on the planet for making collagen, because retin A is not, you know, what it turns out, in fact, the research shows retin A thins the skin over time.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, one year on retin A every day um causes your dermis, your papilloid dermis to thin by 18%.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Which is an outrageous number.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I point this out to dermatologists who are swear by retin A and tell every client to go on retin A.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Well, one of them said, Oh, that's a small part of the skin anyway.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, What?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: The papillary dermis?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So retin A is proven to cause DNA damage.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Retin A uh mangles your epidermis, causes dehydration, causes sun sensitivity, which makes you age faster.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it uh and it does promote collagen, but because it's a poison, remember the skin doesn't store retin A.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when you put it in in a big dollop on your face, you know, a few molecules might be doing a little anti-aging, but most of the molecules are hanging around, disrupting the other processes.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is why the skin doesn't store it, it's too potent.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes it on demand.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: It says, you know what?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I did is I said, look, if I'm gonna make collagen, I want to make sure the skin does it on its own timing.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: That is what retinaldehyde is all about.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: You it's the skin gets it, it stores it if it's it can it can't make any more retin A, and it uses it up to make retin A.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the pillars we liposome deliver.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, delivery systems in skin care are not talked about enough.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yes, your skin is uh is really good at keeping stuff out, thankfully.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so liposomes are one of the most clinically proven delivery mechanisms and they show up to a 600% increase.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So a typical vitamin A might only get two to five percent penetration.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people think, oh, I'm you you know, and they the more the better.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, the rest of it sits on your skin and causes other problems.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: But um, with two to five percent, if you get a 600% increase in delivery, now you're talking 12 to 30 percent um of that vitamin A.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the the liposome delivery makes a big difference.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a big pillar in my concept.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have a another pillar is increasing circulation.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I use ingredients uh that are clinically proven to do that, like believe it or not, chlorella has this powerful um uh it's called neo angiogenesis, but it's a new blood vessel formation.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I use I use uh growth factors uh like um Reg.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so yes, we I mean uh fibroblast growth factor, is that what you're saying?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: So as opposed to EGF, and I also have EGF, but people don't realize that if you just use EGF alone, you're actually um distorting the balance in your skin.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I use stem cells to build growth factors, we use adipose stem cells.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have the highest percent of growth factors of any product I've ever heard about.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have no, I want to ask you, I want to ask you, um, try not trying to interrupt you, but like what okay, so when it comes to stem cells and skincare, how does that work in terms of formulation?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I think about it, you know, obviously I'm going back to my research days and thinking petri dishes, right?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like, you know, cultures and stuff.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you create a skincare product and have stem cells and how is that preserved so that when you're applying it, you know?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Great question.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, you know, we're not using stem cells in the product.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: The whole plant stem cell story was a BS marketing campaign that thankfully is fading fast.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I mean, the this idea that there's some, yeah, your this plant stem cell is going to convert into a human cell or I mean, come on.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and it took like a a decade to to work that out of the system, but oh my god.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, um, human stem cells could never be used, or animal stem cells.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Some people actually do use like cow uh cow componentry again, yeah, like bovine derived, or like yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and I don't think you're going to get any there is some micronutrient benefit to that, like there's some feeding of the skin, arguably, but there's no there's no conversion of these stem cells.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's all it has to be treated, you know, it's not it's not gonna be a live stem cell, it's gonna be a probably uh exploded stem cell, right?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, fine, whatever, but don't use it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So what we do, and the only way to do it, um, now I'm not speaking of say doing some some uh physicians, some plastic surgeons are doing facelifts where they're harvesting your stem cells and then uh multiplying them, and then when they do the facelift, they're injecting the stem cells into the face.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's essentially fat transfer.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the idea that the stem cell is gonna uh do that much more than fat is unlikely, but okay, let's say a small chance that stem cells make a difference there.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and stem cells certainly therapeutically for disease are showing some promise in some areas.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I'm talking about is taking a stem cell, putting it in a petri dish, and um feeding it and uh and and feeding it the nutrients that uh stimulate it to produce growth factors that it would normally produce.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we also use fibroblasts by way, uh by the way, because it really stem cells on their own don't necessarily produce skin-based growth factors, right?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: They have right, they could be they're pluripotent, they could be going in a lot of different directions, so um, that's why uh, but but so you know, the lab I work with figured out the secret sauce, and I swear to you, part of the secret sauce is that the chemist talks to the stem cells every day like there is children.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you have a green thumb?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know how people talk to their plants?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm telling you, there's something like I've loved that.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, it works.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when I was in uh in undergrad doing research, I used to talk to my cell cultures.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I understand.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, they're they're creatures somehow, they're probably hearing you, I'm sure.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um, with but but through that process, through finding the right uh nourishment, you generate growth factors, and then you speak to a great point.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: What about stability?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, growth factors aren't super stable, so you have to sort of hone the process to create what are called exosomes.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Exosomes are what your body naturally makes when it makes growth factors, and it's essentially this sort of liposome shell or this protective shell around the growth factor.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's got all the appropriate biomarkers, so the skin knows what it is, uh, even if it's in the shell.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and it helps the product last.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we get a two-year shelf life out of it with most of them surviving, as long as you know you don't they're not subject to maybe freezing or uh extreme heat.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, it's so I love that.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you have a two-year shelf life.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's amazing.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you have to test that, right?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: We actually clinically tested our stem factor, it's called.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: We actually clinically tested it for um how what is it was its effect on the skin, you know, and we measured fiberblast activity in a petri dish as well.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, a lot of the tricks of the trade in in the industry are the cheat is to do the ingredient testing in a petri dish.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you when you test how some ingredient works on a fiberblast, like peptides, okay.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you feel about peptides, but most of them are oversold.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they put a peptide in a petri dish next to a fiberblast cell, and the fibroblast cell responds because the peptide is made up of you know three to ten amino acids, and maybe it in fact actually is biologically active at that time.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: But what they people don't know is that most peptides fall apart in solution, so they're not even viable by the time they hit your skin.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, number two, they don't penetrate if they are long-chain peptides.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've always is and so I'm getting these debates with other formulators who, you know, their whole story is a peptide story, so they do not like what I have to say, but it's like, you know, why if these peptides are so amazing, why are you do you never see them as actually effective on acne, actually effective on scarring, actually effective on rosacea?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, they're always plumpers, plumpers.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the secret for your listeners.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: The the the industry is based on coming up with new ingredients that plump.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, like there's this new vitamin A called backup.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Bacuchiol, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't use it, I don't believe in it.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's vitamin A alternative.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: If it's vitamin A, they say it's a I don't know, somehow they say it's exactly like a milder version of vitamin A or something.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's I don't know.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it does not.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what that means.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know exactly.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like vitamin A has rolls in the skin that backup is not doing.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, the the other part of it is it's a plumper.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what they do is they they put it in the skin, they measure wrinkle depth over 30 to 60 days, and you know, as it builds up in the skin, it starts to plump the skin, maybe through hydration for whatever mechanism.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I'm not saying I'm not against plumping, like I don't like glycolic acid plumping because that's wounding.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, peptide plumbing is fine.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just say don't spend a bunch of money on it because it is not worth it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, I so I focus on real uh changes.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think you know, to uh speaking to your point about the peptides thing, you know, when I was reading the literature around peptides, it really is not about the actual peptides, it's about the um signaling cascade that they induced in fibroblasts.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know how companies were able to sell this and then not, you know what I mean?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because the way that it's been marketed is more of like a, yeah, here's some, you know, peptides.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: They make up the essential components that you need in your skin, and we're just gonna put them in your skin.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I never understood why nobody made a point about, well, like you said, the delivery aspect.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna get them into the skin deep enough to where it's actually gonna be a viable formula that you're using?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that none of that is ever addressed.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and was that one of the reasons?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: See, like I believe collagen manufacturing, yeah, there are reasons why it slows.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not convinced that it's missing that specific unique peptide, seven-chain peptide.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's like uh yeah, so there's a lot missing to the story.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I won't mention names, but you know, maybe a decade ago, there was a big um storyline out there from a dermatologist who was talking about how he had a muscle relaxing peptide.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that it was a Botox.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, like there's products out there today that say where there it's a Botox-like effect.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I like you the the idea that you could even get a peptide to the the upper layers of your dermis is almost impossible.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: The idea that you could get it past that through the dermis, through the through the uh subcutaneous fat, past the fascia and to the muscle itself to relax it is so silly and scientifically nonsensical.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just well, I yeah, you know, I actually want to go back to how you were talking about the um the lipid, um, the lipid soluble delivery system that you you mentioned, because I think that's a beautiful point.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone listening out there, you know, from what I know about just norm, you know, general basics of dermatology is that you know, our outer layer of skin is lipophilic, but then the the deeper we go into our layers, it becomes hydrophilic.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, being able to cross that initial barrier is I think the real hallmark of skin care, right?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing that people misinterpret about liposomes is that they carry this product all the way to the whatever target, whether it's the DEJ, which is the base of your epidermis or the dermis itself.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is all I really need to do is get past your lipid barrier.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so what these liposomes are doing, and it's phosphatidylcholine, if people are interested, it's it's it's uh pharmaceutical grade, 97% pure.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's this it's the gold standard uh for liposome delivery, but there are other people that are using chemicals to create shells.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: But my problem there is it's less bioavailable.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um, you know, all I'm trying to do is basically carry this active ingredient past that lipid barrier.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Once it gets to the next layer down, um, you then you are um your your the ingredient itself gets taken in.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like it the skin is surprising in that way that it can actually uh that it actually, I don't know, I think it actually recognizes these ingredients.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I it's you know it's hard to really describe how the body knows, like when you take a supplement, how it knows to take it right to where it needs to go.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, because it's such a massive amount of activity going on.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I I this is where I think just the body operates on this really high level of intelligence, and uh there's no other explanation for it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like we do too many things without thinking about it that are inexplicable, you know.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: I completely agree with you.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you know, this actually leads me to my next uh question about sourcing um ingredients because obviously, you know, we talked a little bit about how um it can get expensive to make an effective product, right?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to talk a little bit about what your journey was with that in terms of um finding like how did you source your ingredients, you know, in terms of the formulation.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I'm I have like three ingredients right now that I can't find anywhere in the world.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can't get I can't, you know.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I I find myself sometimes hitting these roadblocks.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so for example, what's the name of it?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh red red mangrove bark oil.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for that.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've never even heard of that.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's used on uh it's used in Cuba still today, but I can't seem to find anyone in Cuba.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's used in Cuba today on um infected cow udders.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: What that's the only use for it right now, but it's it's actually an amazing um anti-inflammatory.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm giving away secrets to my competitors right now, but it actually is an I wish I could find it, right?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I went all over and around the planet looking for who has who grows these trees, you know.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so sourcing is tricky, and I will tell you one of the secrets.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, again, I'm giving away a little bit of an insider secret that I'm not sure everyone knows, but what I do is I tell the lab I want to provide that raw material.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what that does is it takes out their markup on it.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Every lab has like a hundred percent markup on an active material.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if you if you throw in like retinaldehyde is out of control, expensive.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so and I I don't provide that one, I couldn't get away with providing that.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: I tried, um, but honestly, uh my lab figured out how to stabilize it better than I did.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was fine with it.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: But no, there are other ingredients that I'll actually uh I will source them from the remote parts of the world, uh, sometimes you know, from US sources.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um if I supply them, and it might cost me 75 cents per raw material per bottle, but that's a lot better than$1.50 because trust me, oh yeah, you might know.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they multiply, like these numbers multiply fast in this industry.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've actually heard that.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard that the whole process of like, you know, creating a product and finding the right ingredients and then having a lab that can actually put them together the way you want is an extremely lengthy and very, very, you know, expensive ordeal.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I I completely understand that.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there's a lot of buzz around the idea that, well, you know, a lot of skincare lines they like to use these exotic ingredients, right?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like if they're working, if there's an anti-inflammatory effect or if there's something that's really beneficial there, then I'm okay with some weird tree extraction.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like the science has to be there.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I find the science first, yeah.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like your line, I would not hesitate picking up something like you created and knowing that you've done the research.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this also leads me to my second point of people love saying, you know, dermatologists are the, you know, either it's a dermatologist that comes up with it or a chemist.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I genuinely believe that if you don't have a doctor and a chemist working together, how are you ever supposed to come to an ideal formulation?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like chemists don't know the signaling and stuff that.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're discussing here.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know about all of these other areas of medicine, you know.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I mean, I you know, you can see by the the number of skincare products that are out there that are just BS and or junk or toxic, to just to know that it does take some it does it takes a unique unique mindset.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I've only found a few labs that really um operate that way.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Most labs operate old school, they do what's known, they use the same ingredients.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, all the same companies that provide raw materials are going to every lab.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: So they're oh, I've got this special new plumper, it does this.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and and they try to give you science because they know that um the the formulator will eat it up, that they've got some uh you know, a neural pathway signaling effect that's a reason that it reduces redness.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: When in reality, the reason it reduces redness is because it's toxic to the skin.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, they're they're tricking us all the time or they're attempting to trick us all the time.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's a tough industry to succeed in.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think many products, I very few products are getting permanent results, very few products uh are using strategies that work with the skin.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you said something else that I wanted to uh further elucidate, which was uh the kind of sting.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, it was the um oh getting them to work together.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um what it comes down to is the the formula this has been the hardest part for me.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm the first to tell you my formulas don't check all the boxes that most people love about skincare, which is it's very white, it's it smells perfect, it's you know, like you know, when you use liposome delivery, it kind of has a tacky feeling on the skin.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's it's it's barrier supporting and actually is UVB protective and has all the benefits you'd want, but it doesn't, it's not like a smooth silicone feel, you know.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so right, right people have to get over that as they're like they have to recognize where their value is, and the value is in the performance.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to I bypass that.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: So part of what I do that most people don't do is you know, I tend to run with about 30 to 40 percent active material.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, wow, that's really, really high.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really high.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why my products have a lot of color to them, and that's why some of them are darker.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there's uh yeah, it's uh uh you know, I I I try to explain to people it's more like a concentrate, you know, you can use less.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love that.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I want to tell you about one other ingredient.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: So on the in the ingredient front, I have a patent on a few things and several patents pending, but um, one of my patents is on an ingredient called trioxalane.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see that in my line?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I don't know much about it, so I'd love for you to talk about it.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not many, not many people know about it.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, and it wasn't something that I just magically came up with.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: I actually, um, you know how things happen, you know, with clients says, you need to meet this this doctor who's um you know working on a product for HIV.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, you know, and so um I meet this guy, and it turns out this ingredient trioxalane does work on HIV.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: He did clinical trials in Kenya, he he got you know thrown out of medicine.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, the everyone poo-pooed him.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually, it's actually an incredible uh product to taken orally to help fight viruses.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a it's a stabilized trioxygen molecule.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and anyway, the long story short on uh as a topical is that it's incredible, it's an incredible anti-inflammatory, it's an incredible um uh antibacterial, but not in a way that harms your skin's microbiome.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the interesting okay.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: You use uh, like a lot of people used to say, oh, yeah, you get a cut, you know, pour hydrogen peroxide on it.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's actually a bad idea.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: It it kills uh the good bacteria that are helping um restore that wound.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: It actually causes all this free radical damage, you know, it's a bad idea.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is an oxygen molecule that's stable on entry and it actually is going to the immune cells of the skin and not to and not being you know wasted uh on the surface as a free radical doing whatever free radicals do.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, why is that?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know I'm a huge nerd.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's stabilized, it's stabilized, so it's just a unique way of making it.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I had to make so anyway, I partnered with this doctor.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: We have our own lab in Florida where we make this raw material.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: As far as I know, we're the only people in the world making this raw material.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and and part of what I think keeps people away is that it's patented, but it's incredible, smells like ozone.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you put it on your face, you're like, What is that?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had one girl just tell me the other day, why does this smell like a swimming pool?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, No, it's ozone, you know, not chlorine.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it is um, it is so, so good.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it actually permanently heals the oxidative damage in the skin.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it has permanent effects on texture, permanent effects on age spots.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's it's really incredible.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a good example of an ingredient where I would not have known that that was one of the pillars in skincare because I didn't think it was possible.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then you run across somebody somehow, you know, you stumble it.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think a lot of it has to do with my intention going out.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm very much like I want the best, I want, I want the real answer, I want the thing that does the real result.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And since that's well, you you believe in discovery-driven solutions.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: I totally understand that.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think anyone, you know, the here's the thing with skincare for me, and I'm gonna be honest, I think that, you know, if somebody does something right, you don't need to go out there and keep replicating that.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: You need to start building on it, you know what I mean?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like a lot of the lines and a lot of the uh founders that I speak to, it's like they have these core ingredients that they're working with, and that's wonderful.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I I know there's literature out there and there's a lot of you know, whatever, but you're just creating another product that does the same thing as X, Y, and Z product.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: So in in terms of just sales and in terms of just like the you know, the skincare industry, right, as a whole, how are we ever supposed to get past that until we understand the science?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I get stuck because it's like the general consumer, do they want to know the science or do they not want to know the science?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, if you really want to use skincare to benefit your skin, you're gonna have to learn the science, period.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, and you know, people are not gonna be doing that most of the time.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your listeners probably are, but um, the the uh I we're we're I just talked the other day about like we're we're gonna set up a section on our website for skin nerds only, uh, where we do the deep dive, you know, and we show them the research.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I keep wanting to put that on my website, and all my marketing people are like, oh no, it's too much for people.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: They they'll turn away.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: They'll and I'm like, I don't know where the I disagree, Ben.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: I disagree.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should do it.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be on it every day.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I I've already sort of, I mean, you'll find my website if you keep chasing down uh the different uh pages, you'll there's a just a ton of information, but um, you know, it's all new, right?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, I it's nothing that that you learn in school, most of it, like mapping the skin, um, and and identifying the like what I say the causes are for acne.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, um, um, I believe acne is a toxin purge in all cases.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so what you know, when they say, Oh, but there's this bacteria, yeah, that bacteria, propionus bacterium, is um is a uh it's one of the key digesters of toxic waste.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's present when they do the biopsy uh of bacteria.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then people say, Oh, but there's these new strains.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, because those people are putting out this other toxin and that creates a different bacteria comes in to digest that waste.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's all explainable.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the problem is it's so new, and um, you know, we don't have the the funding to do the millions of dollars of research to get it redirected.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: The industry's not gonna pay for that.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my hope is that through success, through word of mouth, which is really going well right now, um, that we people start going, wow, this makes so much more sense to me.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um that's really what I tell a lot of people like logic is my main tool.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, people used to say, for example, melasma.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, melasma, you know, and and and one third of women who take birth control pills develop.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if your listeners don't know, it's like brown pigmentation on the face, usually on both sides of the face or across the forehead or across the upper lip.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it basically you ask your derm and they'll tell you it's permanent, and you should take this poisonous lightener called hydroquinone.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh so to damage the bejesus out of your skin, and oh, by the way, it might turn bluish black permanently.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: All this stuff, right?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so they said, well, I so when you ask, well, why does birth control cause melasma?
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: The answer is always, oh, it's a hormone imbalance.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, because why does liver transplant cause melasma?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Why do uh certain uh uh antidepressants cause melasma?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why does pregnancy cause melasma?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, when you start to add it all up, what you learn is liver damage is the the root cause.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I focused my remedies is liver repair supplements and which all goes back to detoxing.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's completely makes sense, yeah.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, continue.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, no, I it's so all you know, these these when you when you you start using logic and reason, you realize, but wait a minute, if I have hormone imbalance from birth control that causes skin to turn brown, why does not my whole body turn brown since it's in my whole body, right?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's such a silly explanation, and then I say, okay, well, then if it is just about the pigment, why does melasma have dermal inflammation underneath it?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's causing the dermal inflammation?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's what's happening here is a lack of intellectual curiosity, a lack of chasing down the rabbit hole of reason.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they go one or two layers into the reason.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and this is what I I'm I'm sad doctors do this too often.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: They they only you get enough reason to use whatever remedy um to make sense for that remedy, but they don't actually go.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: But wait, why is that happening?
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that's the crux of allopathic medicine, in my opinion.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm gonna be very honest with you.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is not cut, you know, I've had dermatologists tell me, for example, there's an FDA approved option, so I'm going to use it.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for example, um, I brought this up in my previous episodes about Accutane.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, you know, discussing how when I first got introduced to Accutane, it was like the scariest thing of my life, you know, it was like um basically your ovaries are gonna stop working.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: All these like side effects.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, and and when I talked to dermatologists, I was like, well, there's gotta be an alternate to Accutane, right?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, and most dermatologists are like, no, if the if it's there, if FE approves it, I'm gonna prescribe it.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's fine.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: But back in the, you know, back in the early 2000s or you know, 90s, why everybody got accutane.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like every single person who had acne went to a dermatologist, put on Accutane, had a bunch of side effects from it, and I just never understood why that never changed.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so you know Accutane is a great example of a medication highly toxic, as you said, affecting multiple organs in the body.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I I remember just a recent story of a someone who um needed eyeglasses after accutane, like it literally ruined her eyes to the point where she has permanent vision change.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, vitamin A hurts your eyes.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's a toxic form of vitamin A.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and so when you push them on, well, why does it work?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, there's not really a good explanation of why it works.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you why I believe it works.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: I believe it works because it poisons your skin as one of the organs, and so your skin won't toxin purge because it's being poisoned and it's it's immunosuppressed.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an example of how it's kind of like when people uh go on psoriasis medicine, psoriasis medicine, and they're it's it's a poisoning their body to the point where they're no longer able to mount an inflammatory response in their skin.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's not the way to go.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I um I wish the system wasn't the way it is.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if or when it can be remedied.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the the the key is people like us need to get out and share uh our make some noise.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, make some noise, exactly.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, honestly, I I these are my favorite kind of interviews, genuinely, I'm telling you, because I think that there's no, you know, again, there's no shortcut to knowledge, you know, and if you don't if you don't find your you know consumer practices on the basis of knowledge, then you're just clicking, you know what I mean, and adding things to your card.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't I I really want to see the consumers get to a point in skincare where it's like, we don't want to, we don't care what new hyaluronic acid, you know, thing you came out with.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, I need to know what my skin needs.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do I even need this instead of just putting everything on their, you know, your skin, regardless of what age you are, regardless of any comor comorbidities that you have.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: You just, you know, you can't have this one solution for everybody's problems, you know?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna be really hard for them.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're giving them a lot of credit.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where I mean, you have to know that physicians, everyday physicians with their science mind and all their background are getting duped by skincare companies and their BS lines about how their product works or what that ingredient is and why it's special.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard to imagine.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the marketing campaigns, as you know, are are multi-million dollar campaigns that are designed to trick you just enough for you to think this is exactly what you need.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really is it takes truth tellers like us for people to go, oh wait, what?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and consider this, and then and then I they have to.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big believer in following your intuition, you know, and then you rely on your intuition to give you some direction.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the industry is broken, trauma is the lead uh strategy in rejuvenation, which is nuts.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when we know trauma ages, you know, it's like there's scientific evidence, trauma ages.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think trauma is the way to go?
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I get emails all the time from people who are post-laser, post-chemical peel, and they're permanently scarred.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: And wow, doctors don't even, you know, they just like, uh, you know, well, you know what they say to them?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's try this other laser to fix that, you know.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't understand how anyone could go into a laser treatment and feel like you're just benefiting your skin.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're literally damaging.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a laser, for God's sakes.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you think is gonna happen?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I I completely understand.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I love how much knowledge and and curiosity and you know, just deep diving has gone behind um your vision and your in your line.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I I want to ask you this question because I think um you're probably the best person I've come across to ask.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is there's this new concept now um in skin care and skin health that um the more products that we use, they're going to eventually seep into our bloodstream and cause downstream effects.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how do you feel about that?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: That claim um so there are ingredients like I won't use parabens because you know, there's all these stories.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, parabens are fine and your skin terror.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like, no, well, if you're finding parabens in breast tumors, then um parabens aren't fine.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're an estrogenic toxin, and uh, you know, that's a concern.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of skincare doesn't penetrate.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are certainly ingredients that I think people should be wary of, like uh a lot of artificial sunscreens um have hormone, uh, you know, endocrine disruptive effects.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so there's definitely and what's happening is so sunscreen is something that unfortunately, um, because I'm not a big fan of artificial sunscreens, and they uh unfortunately people just slather them on all over their bodies, right?
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they're just like every day, and and so they think they're doing themselves good.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and so though in that case, you're gonna have a lot more of a concern uh when it comes to bioabsorption and those effects.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um my take is generally that most of the skincare ingredients are not that toxic uh that you need to worry.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the the the absorption is much less than most people would think, but it it is absolutely true that you should be mindful of the formulas you're buying and to pay attention to the ingredients that are either causing skin harm or can cause you know other harm, you know, if absorbed.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would say that's a bit overblown as a story.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like most things in beauty.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like I heard it today, um, one of my aestheticians was asking about an article she read where they were talking about well, the problem with vitamin A is you keep using it and you down regulate regulate your vitamin A receptors.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's an interesting thought.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the nerve uh receptors definitely upregulate and downregulate, but I do not believe vitamin A receptors do.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: And number one, and number two, it's it's not the ones you need to worry about.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like your retinoic acid receptor is in, you know, it's it's active 24-7.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not downregulating, it's not yeah, you're just you're not gonna just get rid of a like a membrane protein or like you know what I mean, like a channel or anything.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna do there's no way.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not just gonna go away.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I totally agree with you, and I think there's so much science here, and I could honestly talk to you for hours, and I'm gonna have you back, by the way.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we come back because that this is probably enough for uh enough for uh their the listeners' pleasure for uh for now and their brain is swimming, and yeah, they'll look up all these words that we just said to let them.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I I would absolutely love to have you back, and I want to do a deep dive actually into each one of your products because I think this is exactly what skincare needs, what you're doing, and I and I'm so behind everything that you're doing because this is what I've been waiting to see in skincare.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie to you.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, am I gonna say that I haven't had any results from other skincare?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, because I have, you know, I put on an overnight mask, my skin looks great the next day.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: I can apply my makeup, all good.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to true skin health, I don't feel like those products are geared for that at all.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there has to be this complete, you know, there needs to be a reevaluation of how marketing is done for skincare products, in my opinion, because you know, there needs to be a distinction between, you know, right now it's medical grade skincare versus not, right?
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like it goes far beyond that.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about medical grade skincare, it's about um, you know, the customization of skin core skincare based on your own.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's just delivery systems, you know.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot of medical grade that's just really harsh, and that's all that the medical grade part means.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that it's actually more effective, just more harsh.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I'd love to talk more about it.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so we'll uh to be continued.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for that.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you so much.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: This was such an honor to host you.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right, take care.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk soon.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.