Latest / Women's Writes / Episode 5: Ashley McBryde & Terri Jo Box on finding your people, wild stories & a song’s second chance

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Episode 5: Ashley McBryde & Terri Jo Box on finding your people, wild stories & a song’s second chance · Women's Writes

0:03
Hi, I'm Parker Welling. And I'm Lydia Vaughan.
0:25
And this is Women's Writes. We are staff songwriters
0:28
and close friends, and we're here to highlight
0:30
some of country music's most iconic songwriting
0:32
combos. And give you a peek behind the curtain
0:34
into their friendship, stories, and songs. So
0:36
let's get into it. Today we have Ashley McBryde
0:40
and Terri Jo Box. Ashley is a Grammy, CMA, and
0:44
ACM award -winning singer -songwriter and Grand
0:48
Ole Opry member. whose songwriting and storytelling
0:50
has made her one of Nashville's most acclaimed
0:52
voices. Her 2020 album, Never Will, is one of
0:56
the only albums ever nominated for Country Album
0:59
of the Year by the CMA, ACM, and the Recording
1:03
Academy in the same awards season. And most recently,
1:07
she just opened her NA concept bar, Redemption,
1:11
in Eric Church's Chiefs on Nashville's Lower
1:14
Broadway. and released her fifth studio album,
1:17
Wild, which features her song, What If We Don't,
1:20
which we will be talking about today. Her catalog
1:23
also includes One Night Standers, Girl Goin'
1:26
Nowhere, and Light On in the Kitchen. Terry Jo
1:29
is a Nashville songwriter whose songs have been
1:32
recorded by artists including Miranda Lambert,
1:34
Lainey Wilson, Cody Johnson, Trish Yearwood,
1:37
Patty Loveless, and many others. Her catalog
1:39
includes Lainey Wilson's Those Boots, Cody Johnson's
1:42
God Bless the Boy, Miranda Lambert's Dear Old
1:44
Son. And she is the founder and longtime host
1:47
of Nashville's Music Row Freak Show, where she
1:50
has spent years creating community and opening
1:52
doors for other songwriters. So we are so excited
1:55
to talk to both of you today. This is Ashley
1:58
McBride and Terry Jo Box. So together, y 'all
2:01
have a writing history that spans Over a decade.
2:06
And you guys have written songs together like
2:08
Bible and a .44, American Scandal, What If We Don't,
2:11
most recently Bottle Tells Me So. So take us
2:14
back. How did y 'all first meet and start writing
2:17
together? There was a writer's night at what
2:21
was then Dan McGuinness. Oh, yeah. By the money.
2:24
This predates the naked people statue. They were
2:28
erecting it. Love that one. And I had heard about
2:33
the Monday night writer's night, which was called
2:35
Guinness Girls. At the time was the longest running
2:38
writer's night. That's right. Apart from the
2:40
Bluebird. Second only to the Bluebird. The longest
2:43
running writer's night at the same venue. We
2:45
had not moved. We had been at Dan McGuinness,
2:48
and the stage was in the corner of the patio,
2:50
and we looked at the naked people as we... So
2:52
is this something that you had put together?
2:54
Yes. Oh, that's awesome. I didn't realize...
2:56
I had known about that show, but I didn't realize
2:58
that you were the... Yeah, I was the curator.
3:00
That was my first writer's night. And once a
3:02
year, she would even allow men to play Guinness
3:05
Girls writer's night as long as they would, you
3:07
know... Boys in dresses. Put on a wig, something,
3:10
something that made it through. I love that.
3:12
And it was a fundraiser for breast cancer. That's
3:15
amazing. Amazing. And the boys had to dress up.
3:17
I was playing, at the time I had moved to town,
3:21
I don't know, I'm trying to remember what year
3:22
I moved to town. I moved to town in five, so
3:24
this is several years later. But I want to play
3:26
Guinness Girls. I'm watching Lisa Carver play
3:28
Guinness Girls. I'm watching Danielle Peck play
3:30
Guinness Girls. I want to play. I finally get
3:32
a slot to play a saying. I don't remember what
3:36
all songs I sang that night, but I know that
3:38
it... You sang Burning Down Chicago. You sang
3:40
What the Hell's Wrong with You. What the hell's
3:42
wrong with you is what sticks out. I wrote it
3:43
with Wood Newton. And at the end of singing What
3:46
the Hell is Wrong with You, I hear from the back
3:48
of the patio, I think you should do it. You're
3:51
a singing bitch. And I was like, uh, thanks.
3:56
We drank a lot back then. I love this. And when
4:00
I left that night, I said, Terry Jo, thank you
4:03
so much for having me. It was so lovely to be
4:05
at Guinness Girls. And she said, my office. and
4:08
she gave me the address and she said, 11 o 'clock.
4:10
That's our first ride. So I showed up at Murph
4:13
Music. Like the next day. The next day. At 11
4:15
o 'clock. Tomorrow. Be in my office. Tomorrow.
4:17
Be in my office. 11 o 'clock. That's amazing.
4:19
That doesn't happen. That's amazing. Kids, it
4:21
happened here. That doesn't happen. Well, the
4:24
fact that that happened and then you're still,
4:26
like, here you are sitting together, like, still
4:28
working together, still close friends, that's
4:31
crazy. We've still riding together. We've loved
4:32
a lot of life. I almost started crying just listening
4:34
to your intro. Oh, yeah. It is a lot of miles
4:38
we've gotten on each other. And we've seen each
4:40
other in our, like, super healthiest and our
4:43
super not healthiest. Yeah. So, and I was thinking
4:49
right before we started the cameras that as a
4:52
co -writer, it started as a co -writership, which
4:53
becomes a friendship. And then the growth of
4:56
that friendship is what improves the song. And
4:59
then that's basically the whole premise of what
5:01
this is. So we were so pumped that when we were
5:03
like looking into y 'all's history, researching
5:05
for this episode, making sure we had things that
5:07
were like interesting that maybe people haven't
5:09
asked you before. That's the whole idea is like,
5:11
what makes you guys work? So do you remember
5:15
what the first song was that you wrote at that
5:17
11 a .m.? You wanna say it on the count of three?
5:19
Yep. Good and Ready. I love this. So did you
5:25
record that song and why didn't you record it?
5:27
Do you feel like it was just not - You wrote
5:28
it? We demoed it immediately. Immediately. And
5:32
then it got cut before I could cut it. And plus,
5:36
I didn't have a deal back then. It didn't matter
5:37
what I cut. And it was cut by... Winona. Amazing.
5:43
This is such a great story. And then... We're
5:45
the only two women, the only duo in our group
5:48
of friends that got the same song cut twice in
5:51
one week. Because it got cut onto Winona's record.
5:56
And then the whole record got... Oh, wow. So
6:03
that project never came to fruition. So I don't
6:05
really, I don't remember that it she actually
6:07
ever went in and cut it or not. Yeah, they just
6:08
said that it was hers. I don't know. They just
6:10
said it was Wynonna took it as hers. So that
6:11
didn't happen. And so it's still, it's just still
6:14
sitting there. Still sitting there. But we'll
6:16
play it. We play it together at riders' nights
6:19
and stuff. That's awesome. That is a crazy story.
6:23
It's still one of my favorite songs. Yeah. Yeah,
6:26
and the number of times that the song has come
6:28
true, like one of the part in the chorus, the
6:33
beginning of the chorus is, oh, I'm gonna strip
6:36
the bed so I don't smell your pillow. Clear off
6:39
the fridge and pour out your last beer. I'll
6:41
park my car right in the middle of the driveway.
6:43
I'm gonna make some changes around here when
6:46
I'm good and ready. And the number of times I
6:49
have parked my truck in the middle of my driveway.
6:52
And sent me the picture. after a breakup. Whether
6:55
it just be nice or out of defiance, mostly out
6:57
of defiance, I would send her a picture of the
7:00
tailgate of my truck that says, I'm good and
7:01
ready. I love that so much. relationships. Okay,
7:14
we can delete that. One time I told her, I go,
7:18
I'm the only redhead in your life. You have to
7:20
say the only redhead in your life is right here.
7:22
We're gonna lose that one. And I didn't realize,
7:26
of course, when we wrote it, the first verse
7:29
is, I don't buy cigarettes. But by the time I
7:32
pay my tab, I'll bum the pack. And I don't self
7:36
medicate. I just like the way the whiskey burns
7:38
and the way it tastes. I can put it out. I can
7:42
put it down anytime I wanted to. And that's what
7:44
I'm gonna do when I'm good and ready. That's
7:48
so good. So, relationship song, yes. Fast forward
7:51
to me being over four years, you're with, I'm
7:55
trying to figure out, me coming to terms with,
7:58
actually, I can put it down anytime I wanted
8:00
to. Then I was like, oh shit, I can't. That's
8:03
hilarious. Oh my God, we wrote a song kind of
8:06
in irony of that. And it wound up being a bit
8:08
of a problem. Yeah. And we have, 2020, right
8:14
before the world shut down, she was moving and
8:17
I went out to help her pack and the power went
8:20
out and we couldn't pack. So by candlelight,
8:24
she goes, hey, I got this book. And we started
8:27
reading this book together. And that for me,
8:30
it flipped a switch. to where I literally just
8:36
didn't want it anymore. And when I did, I would
8:40
have a drink, but it just was so seldom. And
8:42
that has just, for some reason, God, thank you
8:45
Jesus, that just flipped a switch for me to where
8:48
I just, I will have. Right, but I will have a
8:51
drink. Not in the way we used to do it. But we
8:53
used to go hard and long and daily. Yeah. And
8:58
it... I used to joke, I can't keep the doors
9:00
open in every bar, but I can keep them open in
9:03
this one. That sounds like it could be a song.
9:10
She also used to say, when they ask me... why
9:16
my voice sounds like this, I say it's a strict
9:18
diet of self -loathing and bad decisions. Self
9:21
-loathing and bad decisions. And I would joke,
9:23
too, because she'd be hosting these writers'
9:25
nights, whether it was at Dan McGinnis or it
9:27
was at the Rusty Nail Blue Bar. They would buy,
9:30
of course, their beloved hostess shots. And I
9:34
would go, stunt liver. She's my stunt liver.
9:38
Because she can drink and drink and drink and
9:41
never... It's amazing. I'm like a ShamWow. She
9:44
is actually a... She's the abominable sober man.
9:49
Like, you could not tell she was drunk except
9:51
she would repeatedly tell you she's drunk. That's
9:55
your tell. Your tell is, I'm drunk. Sloppy Joe
9:58
over here, though. Sloppy Joe? Sloppy Joe. Terry
10:01
Joe drink whiskey. Yes. You could tell right
10:04
away. So I would just give her my, she was my
10:07
stunt laborer for my shot. So we've seen each
10:08
other through every iteration of one another
10:12
and of ourselves. And a lot of my firsts in Nashville
10:16
that were super positive had to do with Terry
10:20
Joe Box. My first writer's retreat. was because
10:23
I felt like I could go because it was with TJ.
10:26
Otherwise, I would have been like, that's like
10:28
going to camp with a bunch of strangers. It really
10:32
is. It's kind of a weird concept. It really kind
10:34
of is absurd that we're like, let's all lock
10:35
ourselves in a cabin in the woods by ourselves.
10:39
Yeah, a cabin in the woods. We drank a lot that
10:42
time too, and I walk by her and I go, did I make
10:45
fun of your denim jacket yet? And I go, no. And
10:48
I go, oh, I meant to. That's amazing. And I had
10:52
a whole thing in my phone of things TJ says.
10:54
It was just called shit TJ says. I love this.
10:57
Do you know some of those oftentimes? Some of
10:59
those I do. And like one time I had a guitar
11:01
player and he had on this pair of the most hideous
11:06
boots you've ever seen in your life. And they
11:08
were, I think they were actually Lucchese's too,
11:10
but they weren't in great condition. And she
11:12
was like, oh, what is on your feet? And he goes,
11:15
These are Lucchese. She goes, they're hideous.
11:17
And he said, I found them out of a dumpster for
11:19
free. And she goes, you still got ripped off.
11:24
And did I make fun of your jacket? I meant to
11:27
is just a staple. And we have a friend who is
11:31
still a songwriter, still an artist named Jeremy
11:34
Drinkwine. And fantastic. vocalist, fantastic
11:37
songwriter. We're at this writer's retreat and
11:39
he was singing and somebody was talking in the
11:42
background and Terry Joe goes, can you shut up?
11:44
Jeremy Drinkwine is singing a song, Terri Jo
11:47
drink whiskey, he's trying to hear it. That is
11:52
incredible. That's amazing. Her wit and humor.
11:57
And so a lot of the friends that I made at the
12:00
Rusty Nail and at Dan McGinnis is all because
12:02
I first became friends with Terri Jo Box. So
12:05
if you think about it, My first five Grammy nominations
12:12
are because I know Terry Joe Box. Because I know
12:17
Terri Jo Box, I know Trick Savage, C .J. Field,
12:19
Blue Foley, Randall Clay, the people that I write
12:21
my records with because we were these weird people
12:24
which winds up becoming called the Freak Shot.
12:27
Because we were all a bunch of freaks. All the
12:29
misfits that nobody was climbing over themselves
12:32
to sit down next to. Oh, Dana, hand me that,
12:33
please. I have something to give her. Oh, shit.
12:37
Oh, I'm so excited. Is it a virus? Because I'm
12:40
just getting better. It's a virus. Nice. That
12:45
is so cute. Oh, that's so cute. I love that,
12:49
because you are the OG freak. And it's still
12:52
part of my live show when I introduce my band.
12:56
I say I'm not the only strange person on this
12:58
stage that thinks living with a bunch of other
12:59
adults moving down the highway at high speeds
13:01
is normal. Please allow me to introduce to you
13:04
the other freaks in this freak show. I love this.
13:07
You guys' history is so... rich and deep and
13:11
long -spanning. What a cool thing. How long is
13:13
this podcast? I truly love this. It's so fun.
13:17
You're going to just have to edit it and editable
13:18
it down. No. I love it. I wanted to ask, I think
13:23
the best co -writers bring out the most you version
13:26
of yourself. Instead of changing you as a writer,
13:29
you may grow and change through co -writing with
13:31
people, but they keep this magic spark alive
13:34
that you maybe came to town with. I know that
13:38
kind of changes a little bit when you're co -writing
13:41
in an artist relationship. So I'm curious, Terry
13:44
Jo, what are places in Ashley's artistry and
13:47
voice that you hear yourself and maybe hide some
13:50
of your truth? Or do you feel like it's completely
13:52
just sacrificial to her story? So it's been a
13:57
full circle for me with that. It's interesting
14:00
you ask that because I made the distinction that...
14:03
when we used to just write, we would just get
14:06
in a room and fight it out. Not that we ever
14:08
really disagreed, but it was like, it was just
14:10
a, you know, we're gonna write the best song
14:13
for this. We're gonna, the song is the boss.
14:15
We're gonna, and then she started getting, you
14:18
know, becoming Ashley, and I would go into a
14:20
room and artist glove her a little more, and
14:23
her songs weren't as good. No. We're better if,
14:26
and so I went - So you're better if you guys
14:28
write like - We're better if she's not sacrificing
14:30
anything. I just went back to, I'm just writing
14:33
with Ashley, let's write a song. And it's better
14:35
if, I think if I went into the room as an artist,
14:38
that it would suck, because I'm a songwriter
14:41
first. I make things up first. And then we figure
14:45
out how that works later. I love that. Yeah.
14:48
I love that. Cause like when we wrote Bottle,
14:50
we weren't really necessarily writing it. We
14:52
just, I had this title we had been talking about
14:54
when all of us got to the point where we realized
14:57
the drink was drinking us. And we had to make
15:04
a change. We had to acknowledge it. This is a
15:07
little off topic, but my 2020 New Year's Eve,
15:11
I had paid to go to this event and I got so drunk
15:14
at nine o 'clock that I went to bed and missed
15:16
it. And that was like into 2020. So then when
15:20
we were at her house, she was like, come help
15:23
me pack, but I'm drinking tea. And I was like,
15:25
yeah, me too. And then we got into this book
15:28
and we read it together. And that was just a
15:33
game changer for me. So that was my moment. And
15:36
so we were just talking about our different moments.
15:39
And I have, in my phone, I have titles that I
15:42
put Ashley's name by, because either she said
15:45
it in a bar, or I said it in a bar, or we said
15:47
it together. And some of them go way back. And
15:50
this one was a pretty old title. This is a 10
15:52
-year -old title. Yeah. Wow. Which is amazing
15:55
because... You didn't write it with anybody else.
15:58
Well, no. It has your name beside it. You probably
16:00
said it. I love that. And it would have been...
16:03
If we'd have wrote it 10 years ago, it would
16:04
have been a drinking song. Right. It would have
16:05
been a party song. It would have been not at
16:08
all what the song is now that people... Every
16:12
day I get DMs about how this song has changed
16:13
in their life. Yeah. And it blows my mind at
16:16
live shows... because, of course, we expect them
16:19
to sing along with Arkansas mud or something
16:22
like that or water in the river, but people singing
16:24
at the top of their frickin' lungs to the bottle
16:27
tells me so. Wow. That one, I mean, the whole
16:30
record is amazing, but that one, like, that one
16:33
really stopped me. It's changing out your spine
16:35
since. Yeah, that one stopped me, yeah. And when
16:37
she said that the day that she came over, when
16:40
we were gonna write, and she was like, I've got
16:41
these titles, and she said that, I said, how
16:43
did we not already write that? And she said,
16:47
it wasn't time. It wasn't time. Yeah, I do think
16:49
there is something about that. Like, you'll have
16:51
titles on your phone that could be a decade old,
16:54
and then it's the right day with the right person,
16:56
and it's just time. It's right, you know? And
16:59
there's no sacrificing your story and what your
17:03
moment was in Bottle Tells Me So, even though
17:06
my story, vastly different, completely different
17:09
circumstances, different time. in like a different
17:13
time of year, a different time of the years we've
17:16
known each other, but the words in the bottle
17:18
tells me so, are still true. The story is still
17:21
true, just because mine is strawberry and yours
17:24
is grape. There is the sacrifice. The core of
17:27
it. I want to say, same thing for Shelley, and
17:31
I don't know when the last time she had drank
17:33
was either, but how many moments of those have
17:35
you had? And even if they're vastly different
17:38
than mine, it's still true. Which I guess is
17:41
the mark of a songwriter. I love that. Do you
17:42
feel like y 'all's relationship as writers is
17:45
like that? It's been more of a like, oh, me too,
17:48
when you guys go into write together, where it's
17:49
like this parallel journey? Or are there times
17:52
that you feel like you're coming from complete
17:54
opposite sides and that changes how you write?
17:57
I think a lot of times, there are definitely
18:00
songs that we come in and written that are what
18:04
we're living right then. Ashley and I came up
18:09
writing songs so often. It was a couple of times
18:13
a week that we were just trying to, we would
18:16
find a cool title and just try to write it to
18:18
the wall. And we weren't necessarily writing
18:20
stuff we were living. I mean, I'm not saying
18:22
we didn't, but we wrote a lot of stuff we weren't
18:24
living to. So I think we'd always just come in
18:28
and be like, what's the, you know, what's going
18:30
to make everybody shoot us a finger at the writer's
18:34
night, at that rusty nail that night. Or at the
18:36
blue bar. What's going to piss off all our friends
18:39
because they weren't there to write it with us.
18:41
Yeah. That was our goal. Yeah, whatever gets
18:42
me flipped off. Yeah, that's great. And you had
18:45
mentioned earlier sometimes when you get in a
18:47
room together, you'll kind of fight it out, not
18:50
quite literally fighting, but do you, like your
18:53
writing dynamics together, do you feel like part
18:56
of why you work so well together is because you
18:58
do see things differently, like through a songwriting
19:02
angle, and then you can kind of like walk each
19:05
other into certain... paths for a song, or do
19:08
you feel like you write so well together because
19:10
you do think so similarly about songs? I think
19:13
Butting Heads has been important, depending on
19:16
which song it is. But we are similar in lyric.
19:22
And our approach, we're similar in things like
19:25
best word gets in the line, best line gets in
19:27
the verse. We're similar in our standards. But
19:32
if... You see it a different way than I saw it
19:35
and I throw this out and she throws this out
19:37
We don't we we don't have any trouble being like
19:40
you're right. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think
19:44
what One of the things I think that has made
19:48
Ashley and I so successful writing together and
19:51
Also for so long and so many is we have a good
19:57
time It's a fun day Um, and we, we mad respect
20:03
each other. Yeah. So it's always like, oh, okay.
20:07
Well, if you really feel that way, then cool.
20:10
Right. And we're not going to fight for that.
20:11
I don't remember. Look at me. It's Cuyahoga.
20:16
And she's like, okay, we'll try it. And then
20:20
later she's like, it is not. It was Tijuana.
20:24
And you're like, shit. You know, whatever it
20:27
is, we can. We also, I think. Also, it is just
20:31
knowing somebody so well. I was gonna say it's
20:34
like you trust each other. You're saying this,
20:36
but I think you mean this. And I know she's not
20:40
fighting to be the person who got the right thing
20:42
there, she's fighting for the right thing for
20:44
the song. Fighting for the right thing for that
20:46
moment. Which I think that's a really important
20:47
distinction as a songwriter, is not being the
20:50
hero, letting the song be the hero, and it's
20:53
just who's listening differently. The song is
20:55
telling you the whole time, the song is the boss.
20:58
that I always am like, the hierarchy for me is
21:00
like the song, then being a good co -writer and
21:03
then whatever my like personal thing is that
21:06
I want in the song. But my taste doesn't matter
21:08
sometimes, right? Like that's, if the song is
21:10
telling you this, that's what it's gotta be.
21:13
And that's a maturity level I think with songwriters
21:15
is just realizing you can be the person in the
21:17
room that didn't contribute anything or didn't
21:20
contribute as much. Like you don't have to go
21:22
in there. You don't have to drive every time.
21:23
You don't have to come in and prove that you
21:25
should be there. You just come in and let...
21:28
You know, I remember Michael Delaney told me
21:31
when I first moved to town, he said, the hit
21:35
writer, a hit writer doesn't always or a great
21:38
writer doesn't always bring the magic into the
21:40
room, but a great writer recognizes it when it
21:43
gets there. Oh, that's such a good way to put
21:45
that. I feel like that's the magic of co -writing
21:49
in general, is that like some days. I don't have
21:52
the title, and you would. You're at the mercy
21:55
of an idea every single day. And I think that
21:59
that's kind of magical that if I can't hear it
22:01
that day, that like... someone else does. Sometimes
22:05
the best thing you do is get out of her way.
22:07
And sometimes me being the landing gear of where
22:11
we're going, you've got the thing, the melody,
22:13
the whatever, we come in and we got to figure
22:15
out how to land this thing. Maybe that's my job
22:16
today. My job is to be landing gear. One thing
22:21
that we're very different in is I will sit there
22:24
and think and think and think and be quiet and
22:27
think. She has the gift of she'll rattle off
22:32
a whole verse and then I might tweak it or something.
22:37
Right, get it done ugly and then we'll make it
22:38
pretty. We don't always operate like that, but
22:40
she is very good on the fly with everything.
22:43
Comedy, talking on stage. Here, say something
22:46
about Cheetos. And she would say something that's
22:50
hilarious. Like, and I'd be sitting there going,
22:53
well, let me make a little outline here. See
22:56
what we need to cover. So she's a little quicker
23:00
on her feet than I am. I love that, though, because
23:02
I feel like that probably helps your dynamic
23:05
in a room. And probably as friends, too. It's
23:07
like having someone who's more like, okay, let's
23:09
just dive in, and someone being like, okay, well,
23:11
let's think about it. Is that right? Like, I
23:13
think that's a cool balance that you guys have
23:15
found probably both in the writing room and in
23:17
your friendship. Definitely. Definitely. Maybe
23:22
I'm like... And she's like, please stop. That
23:27
was eight more syllables than we needed. Where
23:30
you wanna go? Well, they were good. One song
23:35
when I was like, where do we, what place it was
23:37
having to, it was in a rhyming spot in a line.
23:42
And I was like, but where? Where is the location?
23:45
I need a location, but where is that? She goes,
23:47
where are we going to go? And I go, we can go
23:48
with anywhere we want to run with. Just anywhere.
23:51
Just anywhere you wanted to run with. We can
23:53
go anywhere you want to run with. Thanks to pressure
23:55
right off it. OK, so I want to come back to the
23:57
idea of trust that we talked about a couple of
23:59
minutes ago. Bible in a 44 is a really personal
24:02
song for you. Did you come in with that title?
24:05
So good. And what made Terry Joe the right person
24:07
to write that with? I had, I forget how many
24:12
verses. It was one too many. but I didn't have
24:18
is a bow to tie it in. So I came in the office
24:21
that day and it was me and you and Trick Savage.
24:24
It was your first write with Trick. Yeah. And
24:26
I sat down and played everything I had. And I'd
24:28
played it for Blue and Randall a week or two
24:30
prior when I was like, it's just not done cooking.
24:32
Something is not complete. But sitting in the
24:35
room with you and Trick, I played everything
24:39
I've got. And then we take it and do the thing
24:43
where you go, okay, well, you have a lot of sand.
24:46
If you'd like it to be a castle, I can show you
24:49
how to do that. She, I don't know that I wrote
24:52
one word of that song. What we did is go, I think
24:56
this is your chorus. I think this is the order
24:58
of the vignettes. this is probably the chorus.
25:02
But this one here. Let's put this here. Let's
25:04
repeat this trick. I think. And so it was, I
25:10
mean, I say that, you know, talk about people
25:12
that are lucky in the music business. That was
25:14
one of my lucky days because I didn't do a whole
25:16
lot on that song for it to be one of my biggest
25:19
songs in my career. I will say though that like
25:24
functioning that way in a room of like when you
25:27
have a co -writer that is all in on the detail
25:29
and you can zoom out and go, this is how the
25:33
arc needs to actually be. That's really important
25:35
though still. Yes, and going that is good, this
25:37
is better. Yeah. That melody that you're using
25:42
here, like Triggy said, that melody that you're
25:44
using here needs to be your guitar riff. And
25:47
then Terry Jo was like, right, which makes it
25:48
your chorus. And I'm like, yes, yes. And then
25:52
it becomes what it's meant to be. Right. And
25:55
we left that day thinking we wrote a song for
25:58
her about her dad, and not really, you know,
26:04
foreseeing it relating to so many other artists
26:08
that wanted to... Because that's been cut a couple
26:09
of times. It's been cut four times, including
26:12
her live record. Awesome. And... Eric's? Eric's
26:16
live record. Trisha's, yeah. Your studio version
26:19
and your live version. And Patti's on the Trisha
26:21
one. Patti's on the Trisha one. And the night
26:23
that that came out, We were out on the road.
26:27
We were opening for Brooks and Dunn at the time
26:29
in like fairs. And we got in the bus and at midnight
26:34
the Trisha Yearwood cut. with Patti Loveless
26:37
singing harmonies happen. I just looked at the
26:39
band, we listened to it and I said, that's the
26:40
most 90s thing that could ever happen to anyone.
26:43
We opened for Brooks and Dunn, we got into the
26:46
bus and listened to Tricia Yearwood and Patti
26:49
Loveless sing a song that we made up. That's
26:52
amazing. What a memory though. I don't know if
26:54
you knew, I didn't have the inside info that
26:57
Patty was featuring on it. No, when she started
27:00
singing, I was like, we were like, so we knew,
27:03
Trisha. That's amazing. I truly would pass out
27:06
if that happened to me. I got a text from Randall
27:08
Clay that morning going, baby, listen to your
27:12
cut. And I listened to it and I was like, oh
27:16
my god, Patty Loveless is on it. The best thing
27:19
that could ever happen to a song is that Pattiy
27:20
Loveless sings the harmonies. I can probably
27:22
move back to Texas now. That is kind of the ultimate.
27:27
I love that. What a fun story for that song.
27:31
So I also want to talk about what if we don't?
27:33
Yes. What an insane thing. You guys wrote this
27:37
song like 10 years ago, and you recorded it,
27:40
and then now it's on your most recent record.
27:44
What was the year? Did we figure it out? It was
27:45
12 years ago. It was, yeah, 2014. 12 years ago.
27:49
That is so... Just take us through the whole
27:52
journey of this song. How did you write it? What
27:55
made you decide to cut it again 10 years later?
27:58
Tell us all of it. Cutting it now on the wild
28:02
record was because I... It had been on an EP
28:06
that I did really early on before I ever had
28:08
a deal. And that was the criteria of the advice
28:13
that I was getting that you can't cut that song.
28:15
It's already been on a thing. And I was like,
28:16
who cares if it's already been on a thing? It
28:17
was on there wrong. And it wasn't eligible to
28:20
be a single on the radio, which is what the song
28:22
is for. So I just raised hell. And I was like,
28:27
we're doing it. Fight me. And then nobody fought
28:30
me. Amazing. I love that. We wrote that on your
28:35
patio. I'm trying to remember if that was the
28:39
day we drank that bottle of Four Roses. I'll
28:41
tell you what I remember about that day is Harlan
28:44
was missing. It was July 4th, July 5th. It was
28:47
July 5th, or night. It was right around there.
28:50
It was right around there. Where my little kitty
28:51
had gotten scared off by fireworks. And so I
28:55
was inconsolable is what Randall would call me.
28:59
And we would be writing and I would just randomly
29:01
be like. Harlan, we'd get up and run around the
29:04
yard and we'd walk around and we'd sit back down
29:06
and write more. And I do remember you coming
29:08
in and saying that they said I need a big rock
29:11
ballad. I was looking for one. I had written
29:14
one with Blue called My Money's On You. And I
29:18
needed, I said, in country music at the time,
29:21
I said, we've got... Our tough girl, crazy ex
29:23
-girlfriend. We got that bass covered. It's covered
29:26
well. We've got seeing every note, top volume,
29:29
top note. We have that covered really well. Where
29:33
is my Pat Benatar? Where is my Joan Jett? I need
29:38
this. I need to feel like this. And Terry, Joe,
29:43
and Randall were the people, absolutely, to tackle
29:45
that. I can't remember, honestly, where that
29:47
title came from. Because it came from What If
29:50
We Don't and Say We Did. Ah. Oh, yeah. Which
29:53
is just something you say to your kid. But sitting
29:57
on the patio being like, what if we don't? And
30:00
we're like, hang on though, because what if that
30:02
was a love song? But it's not a love song. I'm
30:05
pretty sure I was in a situation at the time,
30:07
too, where... And I was definitely in a situation
30:09
where it was like, we shouldn't do this, but...
30:14
Yeah, or this could ruin everything. This could
30:16
ruin everything and probably will. It probably
30:19
did. Let's see. Do you think if y 'all walked
30:23
into a writing room together today and had just
30:26
that title, would you write it the same way?
30:29
I don't think it would be possible to write it
30:32
the same way because if Harlan hadn't been missing,
30:36
if Randall hadn't been there, if we hadn't been
30:39
sitting at that picnic table if that vertical
30:41
moment hadn't been in these toxic relationships.
30:44
There's no way. There's no way that song winds
30:47
up the same. Yeah. I also remember, and correct
30:50
me if I'm wrong, that you had also written a
30:53
song with Bart Butler, who was producing the
30:56
EP, and we knocked that. When he heard What If
31:00
We Don't, he knocked his own song off of the
31:02
EP. Storm Chase. It knocked Storm Chase off the
31:04
record. I knew it had something to do with a
31:05
storm. because that was their other kind of big.
31:08
That was my other big vocal. And when he heard,
31:11
what if we don't? He was like, I'm just knocking
31:13
my own song off of this record for this. Which
31:16
I thought was a really cool move. That is a really
31:19
like best song wins. And a lot of people don't.
31:23
live by that. That's what we eat. We live in
31:26
a town. That's for me and my house. We will serve
31:29
the song. That's amazing. That's absolutely true.
31:31
Put that on a needle point and put it in my house.
31:35
Chisel it in wood. That's incredible. Does it
31:38
say we will serve the song or we will eat tacos?
31:41
We will eat tacos. I'm serious. I've seen that
31:44
one too. Which one is your favorite? Oh, I don't
31:46
know because I made the, we will serve the song.
31:49
And I don't remember in the... in the biblical
31:51
text, what, who says that? It might be David.
31:55
We will serve the Lord. And I was like, as for
31:57
me and my house, we will serve the song. We always
32:01
have a family who plays together, stays together.
32:03
That's right. That's so fun. I love that so much.
32:05
So when you found out that she was rerecording
32:08
this song, what was your reaction? So she...
32:12
How did she tell you? There's a lot that is...
32:18
We can't disclose. You can't disclose what you
32:22
want to hear though. It was an iffy thing, so
32:26
I kind of knew it was going to happen, but I
32:27
wasn't sure. Let's talk about the moment she
32:31
called me and told me it was a single. That's
32:32
your initial reaction. I was writing and it was
32:37
December 9th. She called, she texted me and said
32:41
something about the single. Well, I had just
32:43
personally put out my first song ever as an artist.
32:47
And so and it was or it hadn't come out yet or
32:50
whatever. And she said something about your single.
32:54
And I was like, I know. Congratulations on your
32:55
single. Yes. And I said, I said, thank you. I
32:58
know it's taken forever. And then she was like,
33:01
oh, you already knew. Yeah. Well, she goes, well,
33:04
now it's January 23rd. And I was like, what are
33:07
you talking about? We had to move the release
33:08
date of the single. And she's like. What are
33:10
you talking about? Wait, what are you talking
33:11
about? I'm talking about the, I did a version
33:14
of Hibbily Hippie, the Lainey song as a songwriter.
33:16
And I think she's talking about that. So then
33:18
she calls me, she goes, Sissy, what if we don't
33:21
as the next radio single? We had the meeting
33:25
and it was all the teams decided. And I remember
33:28
my, I always tell this when I sing it, I was
33:31
so excited because I've had 19 major label cuts.
33:35
I haven't had a radio single. Oh, wow. Wow. So
33:39
this was my first radio single. That's amazing,
33:42
congrats. So this felt like the moment I got
33:44
my first major label cut. Wow. Because it was
33:46
a first. What a beautiful thing that song came
33:50
back around and ended with y 'all together. I
33:51
was squealing, I was so excited and I was writing
33:55
with Jo Heydell that day and I remember I was
33:59
so excited and my second thought was, oh shit.
34:02
Now I have to sing it live. That is a melody.
34:08
That would be hard to sing. It's like using your
34:12
vocal cords as a speed bag. So we dropped it
34:16
a whole step. I was just thinking, you're singing
34:21
big. And all of those moments over the years,
34:26
over this more than a decade of friendship, sitting
34:28
on the patio, sitting in the writing room, me,
34:30
you, Randall, Blue, all of us. Jeremy going,
34:33
we're gonna write these songs and we're gonna
34:35
have cuts and people are gonna sing our songs
34:37
back to us 12 years later. That's exactly what
34:43
happened. I love that you guys like stuck it
34:48
out though. That's why you don't quit. I mean
34:52
I've had people like I've heard the advice and
34:55
it kind of rings true like the people that end
34:58
up having success in this town are just the people
35:00
that don't ever. Stop trying. That's what I tell
35:03
people. I always say, who's willing to play chicken
35:06
with the town the longest? Because eventually
35:08
the town will swerve and you'll get there. But
35:10
you have to sit there and be really, really positive.
35:13
Oh, you work so hard to get here. I'm like, we
35:15
all work hard. It's not about working hard. It's
35:18
about just being crazy enough to keep doing it
35:21
and believing that. It's, you know, you're gonna.
35:24
Yeah, it's the insanity factor. It's not the
35:27
talent sometimes. I will succeed because I am
35:29
insane. Yes, that is true. I saw that quote on
35:32
something. One of my favorite stories of late
35:37
is, I had forgotten, but there was a hit songwriter
35:40
that we were all kind of was on the cusp of all
35:42
of us. And he told CJ Field. that he needed to
35:48
quit hanging out with all of those people that
35:50
call themselves freaks. And they say, oh, see
35:52
you on the charts. Because we would say, we'd
35:55
play a new song or whatever and be like, see
35:56
you on the charts, you know? And you need to
36:00
quit going down to the rusty nail and playing
36:01
with all these freaks. And you're wasting your
36:03
time. You need to be, you know, and CJ ignored
36:07
him. And now one of those freaks that he needed
36:13
to quit hanging out with has her on Starbar downtown.
36:17
Yeah. Yeah, I know one of the songs that CJ wrote.
36:20
with one of those freaks he needed to stop hanging
36:23
out with is one of the drinks on the menu, you
36:25
son of a bitch. That's right. And you need to
36:28
quit, the irony of it is you need to quit going
36:31
down to those bars and hanging out with all those
36:33
freaks. Where do you think the songs are? And
36:36
now it's like, well now one of those bars is
36:39
owned by one of the freaks. I love that so much.
36:43
I can't wait to clip that in that person to find
36:45
this clip on Instagram and be like, I was wrong.
36:50
Okay, so what's one thing you think people would
36:53
be surprised to know about the other one? So
36:56
I want each of you to answer. Like something
36:58
that you've learned through the course of your
36:59
friendship that maybe you wouldn't know at face
37:01
value, but you'd have to have the history you
37:04
guys have to know that. I have two things come
37:09
to my mind right away. One that just a little
37:12
thing that probably people don't know about Ashley.
37:14
She doesn't like people touch her hair. Don't
37:17
touch my hair. Not because it's perfect, because
37:21
don't touch it. That's fair. That's why. Because
37:23
it's not your hair touch. Play with your hair.
37:25
Play with my hair all day. Just play with my
37:28
hair. It's unruly enough. I'm more like that.
37:31
When you have curly hair, it gets stuck in everything.
37:33
You don't need someone else doing it. Just don't
37:34
piss it off, please. I get that. It's like Velcro.
37:37
You get stuck to everything. Certain rings where
37:40
I'm like, oh, that's gotta go. Yeah. A hangnail,
37:42
you're like, oh, I gotta cut my ass today. The
37:43
other thing that I think that people don't know,
37:46
and I... I love this about her, is she, a lot
37:52
of people see her as this tough, tattooed, badass,
37:58
used to be whiskey drinking. And she's one of
38:02
the softest, kindest people. I don't want to
38:06
say people pleaser, because that's not a positive
38:07
thing, but caretaker, nurturer. Thanks. And people
38:13
don't see, they think she's this badass, I'll
38:15
do what I want, you know, middle finger to everybody.
38:17
And she's very much a, what can I do? What's
38:20
gonna make you happy? And what can I do? And
38:23
are you cold? And let me fix you this. And she's
38:25
just a very giving kind, a softer soul than people
38:31
think she is. Because we carry all things in
38:32
equal measure. So as kind and as sweet as a person
38:38
is capable, they are capable of exactly as much
38:40
malice. And it was my mom that taught me to measure
38:43
someone's strength by the size of their ability
38:46
to be gentle. And thank you. What I don't think
38:50
people realize... I mean, is Terry Jo hilarious?
38:53
Yes. Is she an exceptional vocalist? Absolutely.
38:57
She's very good at organizing things like people.
38:59
Absolutely. But there are entire groups, not
39:01
just our group, there are entire groups of people
39:05
who are creating music in this town because she
39:08
said so. I love that. There is, you move to town
39:12
and whatever, you're running into... one of us
39:16
at a thing, and they're like, do you guys know
39:17
anything about Freak Show? And I'm like, yeah,
39:19
yeah, yeah, Freak Show, I love Freak Show, I'm
39:20
one of the freaks, why? And they're like, it's
39:22
like the writers night that I wanna play. When
39:25
I have looked at people like at meet and greets
39:26
and things and then said, what's your name? Let
39:29
me just text TJ and tell her to look out for
39:31
you. They know that now they have a chance. Because
39:36
she'll get it to them. That's amazing. And if
39:38
they don't, she'll not give them any more chances.
39:40
What is amazing thing for your legacy to be connected?
39:42
The matriarch of music, row. Yes. Hands down.
39:45
Sounded like I said pants. I said hands. Pants
39:48
down. Pants down. I don't think you realize the
39:52
power you yield. I don't because I am not as
39:57
organized as she might lead you to believe. And
40:00
I am just, I'm very just let's get the show together
40:03
for tomorrow night by the skin of my teeth. misspelling
40:08
names and just still... And people use it as
40:11
cred. And they will meet you and say, oh, I'm
40:13
so -and -so. I've played freak show. See, that
40:18
to me, that's wild, because I'm just trying to
40:19
throw a show together every week. And I don't
40:21
ever sit and just reflect on what has this show
40:24
meant to the music industry, you know. Right.
40:27
Hmm, I wonder how it affects it globally. For
40:30
someone with a dream that wants to just, like,
40:33
be seen and have someone play and also meet other
40:35
people, like, that's... I think it's amazing
40:38
that you downplay that, that you don't maybe
40:42
understand that about yourself. Because I think
40:45
that says a lot about your character, that you
40:47
are a connector by nature, and you're just thinking
40:49
about doing the task at hand, but just who you
40:52
are makes it possible for people to live their
40:54
dream. That's like, what a beautiful thing. And
40:56
especially for people like an ex -circus clown.
41:01
What? Nobody's hiring that guy. But we're all
41:05
friends, and so then that becomes the freak show
41:08
thing. And then other people who are also like,
41:09
I kind of don't fit any of the norms either.
41:11
And we're like, come sit with us, we're weird
41:13
as shit. And then that becomes its own thing.
41:17
Yeah, it's like the, you know, you just have
41:19
to be good. That's the only criteria. I don't
41:22
care. Yeah, if you play the first time at freak
41:24
show and you suck, then she doesn't have you
41:26
back. That's just how it is. And you got your
41:28
shot. But she is also there to champion you.
41:33
For the most part, it's, that was great. One
41:36
of the, I don't know, I think you said it to
41:37
me in a co -write. And I threw out a line. It
41:41
was a turd. Whatever. Those are in there. Terry
41:45
Jo's response is, okay, yeah, I like that. For
41:49
this song? For this song? Because you know what?
41:55
She didn't have to tell me that that line didn't
41:56
work. She made me introspect. Yeah, points you
42:00
to the truth without... Yes, because I was like,
42:03
for this song, of course for this song. That's
42:05
incredible. Oh, it doesn't work at all, does
42:07
it? I said a turd. For this song? For this song?
42:12
That's good. I love that sound. She should have
42:16
screamed back at me, you bright bitch. Honestly,
42:20
yes. Okay, so we're gonna do, we have these little
42:25
like segments that we do, and we're gonna do
42:27
a rapid fire of most likely to - Oh good, she'll
42:29
be way better at this than me. Okay. Okay, so
42:32
most likely to remember everyone's birthday.
42:34
Terry Jo. What? She would save you. I don't do
42:37
numbers. I don't eat. OK. I don't do numbers.
42:39
Neither one of us. I don't even know what hers
42:40
is. I don't even know what hers is. Hers is,
42:42
you're never going to burn a card from me. Hers
42:43
is somewhere around the end of July. I'm like,
42:46
I could tell you it's maybe someone's birthday.
42:46
The only reason I know when hers is because I'm
42:49
playing on it this Wednesday. Tomorrow. My birthday's
42:54
tomorrow. I also didn't know tomorrow was Wednesday.
42:55
Happy birthday. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I feel like
42:58
I'm one of those people who could remember a
42:59
date but not know what today's date is. That's
43:01
the way I am. I'm not any good to know that.
43:03
I know your birthday's November 14th. I didn't
43:05
know today was November 14th. I was unaware.
43:08
I'm so bad at birthdays. Most likely to forget
43:10
where they parked. Most likely to answer the
43:14
phone at 2 a .m. Most likely to hold a grudge
43:18
the longest. We're killing this game. Most likely
43:24
to cry during a commercial. Both of you, okay.
43:31
Most likely to tell you a hard truth. Oh, that's
43:34
both. That feels like, based on what we've talked
43:37
about, feels like both. And if you're a super
43:38
lucky individual, you'll get it sat down from
43:40
the both of us. I want to know what you have
43:44
to do to get that. Right, you gotta screw up.
43:47
You gotta screw up. I'm a little worried for
43:50
that person. Okay, most likely to win a reality
43:54
show. I feel like I could see that. Win one?
43:58
Yeah, like win. Like, go on it and then win it.
44:00
Remember when we were on a reality show? But
44:04
the deal was it never made it to TV. So somewhere
44:07
there is this footage. What's the premise of
44:10
the reality show? The premise. Are you ready?
44:12
This is so good. They would get us drunk, and
44:16
we were a bowling team that had never bowled.
44:19
And they would get us drunk. Blazing Lanes, Blazing
44:22
Lanes. Their show is called Blazing Lanes. It's
44:24
songwriters and they blow off steam by going
44:26
bowling only they found us because we were all
44:29
at a table in losers. And they were like, do
44:32
you guys bowl? And we were like, no. And they
44:33
were like, perfect. Then why did this not make
44:37
it to TV? Here's the best. They would put us
44:39
with professional bowling teams and not tell
44:41
the other team that we weren't bowlers, that
44:45
we had no idea what we were doing. This is funny.
44:48
Blue had one of those bowl polishers on his head,
44:51
and the guy was like, you're ruining that polishing
44:53
cloth. And Blue was like, what are you talking
44:55
about? That's a great hat. So, and we had our,
44:58
we had shirts that had our names embroidered
45:00
on the back. She was Lil' Dipper. Lil' Dipper,
45:02
because at the time I dipped Copenhagen. I had
45:04
been dipping since I was 19. So I just always
45:06
had this super attractive bump in my lip. Yeah.
45:10
And I was Cherry Bomb. Because of my red hair.
45:13
Yeah. And Sweet Roll. Sweet Roll. Big toss. And
45:17
Blue was big toss. And he always like lobbed.
45:20
We have no clue what we're doing. Where is this
45:23
footage? Was it just one episode of you doing
45:25
this, or did you compete with her? No, because
45:26
they changed out the characters a few times.
45:28
And we filmed a couple of episodes, one of which
45:32
included one of us, I won't say who, passed out
45:34
in the parking lot of the bowling alley. Just
45:37
called him gutter naps. He was just waking up
45:38
gutter naps. We called him gutter naps because
45:41
they were so common in our friend group. It's
45:43
not sexy. I still can't remember what CJ's name
45:48
was. I can't remember either. I want to know
45:51
where this footage is. I know. And how do you
45:54
get it? Wasn't it at Donaldson Bowl? We were
45:56
at Donaldson Bowl. And I asked a bowling team
45:59
named the Dammit Dolls to actually teach me to
46:02
bowl. And that's where I learned, stand, one,
46:05
two, three, toss. And I'm still terrible at bowling,
46:08
but every time I throw a bowling ball, I'm like,
46:10
stand, one, two, three, toss. As though I know
46:14
what I'm doing. I don't know where that footage
46:15
is, but it's fantastic. Yeah, someone needs to
46:17
find out. Someone needs to dig that up. So I
46:18
think we're most likely to win a reality show
46:21
together. I love that. I love it. That's great.
46:24
OK, most likely to chase the crazy. idea and
46:27
somehow make it work when you're writing? Well,
46:31
that's a pretty fair toss up. The craziest idea.
46:36
I would say, I'd say Ashley, probably. Because
46:40
she, I think just... What source is going to
46:44
happen? It's going to suck? We did write that
46:47
song about the guy in the peach orchard with
46:53
the... train tracks. Oh, wow! Remember that?
46:57
At your old, at your little house. She wins the
47:00
memory game. At your little house with Bejo.
47:03
Yeah. With Banjo. And we sat in that corner and
47:05
we wrote. It was like the week before Christmas.
47:08
I can't remember that. Anyway, we've written
47:10
some crazy stuff. Yeah, we'll write crazy stuff.
47:13
Most likely to hear the melody first. I would
47:17
say I would say you. Yeah? Yeah. There's something
47:22
about the way Terry Joe shapes a phrase and shapes
47:25
a vowel that exposes the melody in ways that
47:30
I wouldn't. where I'd be like, and mine goes
47:32
like this. And she'd be like, and mine. I'd be
47:36
like, the way your eye is in awe is gorgeous.
47:40
Like, and that change. Maybe we're melody hunters
47:43
and we discover them together. Together. I love
47:46
that. You guys need each other for it. That's
47:48
fun. Well, she's this guitar. She plays, I don't
47:50
play well at all. So she's always the one, you
47:54
know, driving the chord changes and stuff. Okay.
47:57
Who's most likely to derail a session with a
48:00
weird topic? Oh. Oh, that's both of us easily.
48:03
Easily. One time we stopped in the middle of
48:05
writing a song to see if we could successfully
48:07
make our own tiki oil for a tiki lamp. We did
48:10
not succeed. Coconut oil, by the way. It ain't
48:14
it. Because as soon as it turns slightly cool,
48:16
it's completely solid. Oh my gosh. Just buy it.
48:20
Yeah. Just go buy it. Just go buy it. And then,
48:21
I can't tell. We were in a riot one day and I'm
48:26
like, what is wrong with you? She just keeps
48:28
turning her hands around and she's like, I can't
48:30
tell if this is Cheeto dust or cheese dust on
48:33
my hands or spray tan. Maybe a little of both.
48:40
Okay, so who's most likely to bring snacks to
48:42
a riot? Who's most likely to be late? Yep. Who's
48:49
most likely to come up with the craziest rhyme?
48:53
Randall. Randall. I was about to say that. He's
48:56
unrepresented, but we will give him that one.
48:59
Not pictured here. Who's most likely to fight
49:01
a little bit too hard for a line? I'm guilty
49:06
of that too. But I'm also, I do have the ability
49:11
to get exhausted of it and be like, whatever.
49:14
I think now it's probably, it would be a hard
49:17
toss up. I think back in the day, it would definitely
49:18
be. There's some headbutting about that in the
49:21
past. I like that though. I think it makes the
49:24
song better. I remember in Bible in 44 you saying,
49:28
I suggested something and it was very, I remember
49:31
it because she rarely ever did this. She goes,
49:33
I wouldn't sing it like that. And I was like,
49:35
okay, then that's the way we're going to sing
49:38
it. I love it. Because she never would do that.
49:40
I was like, all right. Well, to have the trust
49:42
and the comfortability for you to be able to
49:44
say it and you to be able to receive it. That's
49:47
a really unique dynamic to have in a writing
49:50
relationship. So speaking of Writing relationship
49:54
dynamics to get a peek into how you guys function
49:57
in a writing room together We're gonna do a segment
50:00
that we call a title talk. Okay, I'm gonna give
50:03
you three AI generated titles Oh god, okay, and
50:07
y 'all pick your favorite and talk us through
50:10
how you would write that. Okay. Yeah, take your
50:12
time No rush just like you know, how would you
50:14
land the plane? What's the hook? What's the angle
50:17
concept? Okay. Here are your titles the last
50:22
good plate before the fire cooled, or smoke finds
50:29
the rafters. The last good plate, before the
50:35
fire cooled, smoke finds the rafters. I would
50:42
say if you look at the last two, make those two
50:44
duke it out, similar thing, before the fire cooled,
50:49
would be either you're super, that would be like
50:54
a cheating, you know, like you had somebody else
50:57
in my spot in the bed before it went cold. Smoke
51:00
Finds the Rafters to me would say, that's like
51:03
the cream always rises. Or like maybe, you know,
51:07
you couldn't have missed the warning sign because
51:08
Smoke Finds the Rafters. So I would naturally
51:13
take the middle title. and then say what I mean.
51:17
Like, I'm still over here thinking, I'm still
51:18
processing. Yeah, and that's what they said they
51:20
did earlier, where she threw a rattle, and Ashley's
51:24
thinking internally. And I'm letting her go,
51:26
and I get the bone, and I'm like, put it on in
51:27
a minute. I think I like this bone. I would ask
51:37
you, though, of those two phrases. She remembers
51:41
everything. I'm still sitting here trying to
51:42
go, okay, now wait, what was the second one?
51:45
something about a fire, because I'm not looking
51:48
at it. So I'm really just trying to remember
51:51
what the two titles were and she's like photographic.
51:55
Well, and I would say we'll sing both of those
51:58
lines to me, because she's gonna know and then
52:02
I'm gonna hear it and then we've hit it from
52:03
both ways. So before the fire cooled, smoke finds
52:07
the rafters. To me, like before the fire cooled
52:12
does sound like... a relationship song, I'm trying
52:15
to figure out what the story is there. Is it
52:18
that you left, like the fire, like you left before
52:23
the fire had even cooled from going out? You
52:27
know? Like you were over, you were over so fast,
52:31
like the fire hadn't even gone all the way out
52:33
yet. That's how I would have thought of it. It
52:36
was like, you left and you're like, you already
52:39
moved on before this even, the flame died down
52:42
really. Finds the Rafters, or was it? Smoke Finds
52:45
the Rafters. That sounds to me like a little
52:47
bit of an empowering, liberating title. Like,
52:53
I'm leaving you in the ashes. Like a phoenix
52:55
rises. Smoke rises. I'm leaving this in the ashes,
52:59
and I'm rising. Oh, I love that. And if we were
53:00
gonna decide, like if we only have two hours
53:02
to write the song today, then I would say, you
53:04
wanna run with Rafters or cool? Yeah. And then
53:07
we would just choose that. That's a great, which
53:09
one would you choose? Rafters or cool? Today,
53:12
how long do we have to write the song? Two hours?
53:15
Yeah. Cool. Let's go with who rhymes. I love
53:19
that. Do that for an hour. If we're bored, we'll
53:21
change it to the afters rhymes, and then do that
53:23
for an hour. I love that. OK, so you guys kind
53:27
of talked about this at the very, very beginning
53:30
of the conversation we had. But we have a segment
53:32
called The Song That Got Away. And is there a
53:36
song that the two of you guys have written? And
53:38
it could be the Wynonna one that we already talked
53:40
about. For sure. That had never made its way,
53:43
for whatever reason, onto one of your records
53:45
or someone else's, that you guys still are like,
53:48
man, that song's so great, someone should record
53:49
that. You kind of like lose sleep of it. It's
53:51
the one that... The song that got away. I would
53:54
love to see Good and Ready have her day. But
53:59
also, Curbside Couch. Oh my gosh. Okay, tell
54:03
us about Curbside Couch, because we know about
54:05
Good and Ready. You would hate this place. My
54:09
curbside couch. These walls are blank and I've
54:11
been smoking in the house. See? See? This freedom
54:13
feels like prison. Hey, baby, I've been kicking
54:15
myself. I wouldn't drive so fast down Red Hill
54:19
Road trying to find a reason not to go on home
54:20
and be alone with me. See, I can't do this. I
54:22
wouldn't know old Joel was from Abilene and he
54:24
wouldn't know me by my drink and have it waiting
54:26
on me if I hadn't hurt you so bad. God, what
54:29
I wouldn't give to take leaving you back. Wow.
54:34
We wrote that with Chris Harris. And see, I say
54:36
curbside couch because it's the line that stands
54:38
out that I remember. She remembers it front to
54:41
back. That's amazing. It's also weird. I love
54:45
that song. I love Elijah Craig too. Because I
54:49
wrote every, and you've done it too, every song
54:52
that could possibly have whiskey in it, we wrote
54:55
them. And then it became popular. Shortly after
54:58
we already did it. Which is like, I'm just now
55:01
learning. I'm 43 years old. I'm just now learning
55:02
that that's how this shit works. We do it for
55:05
a decade, and then some idiot does it, and it's
55:08
a hit. And then you can't do it anymore. We also,
55:11
a song that I may actually cut on my, I'm working
55:13
on a record that we, I love that we wrote is
55:16
Good Ol' Girl. I liked Good Ol' Girl. I love
55:20
that it's gonna get to see the light of day too.
55:22
It might, it might. I'm still narrowing songs
55:24
down. You know one though that should never.
55:26
see the light of day. Yes, I do. This is a great
55:29
one. I can think of two. Me too, okay. Say them
55:34
both. On the count of three. Okay. One, two,
55:38
three. Oo -wee and denim. Oh, denim was one.
55:43
Oo -wee I like. What was it that I didn't like
55:46
about? Oh, no, no. No, what I love about Oo -wee.
55:50
is yes ma 'am, no ma 'am, ain't above his raisin',
55:53
hotter than a Waffle House grease fire blazin'.
55:56
Okay, nevermind who we did it to, I know you
55:58
like that. The one that you, there's two you
56:01
hate. There's two I hate. You hate cats and dogs.
56:04
I hate that song. And you hate, it's my mom's
56:09
favorite. See, and you hate, well I hate this
56:13
one too, none of my business. Remember that song?
56:17
Your opinion of me is none of my business. Yeah.
56:19
Okay, I'll hate that one with you. Yeah, I'll
56:20
hate that with you. But the dinner one, it doesn't
56:24
deserve to see the letter day, but it also just
56:26
makes me laugh. The story is great because it's
56:28
about Trent Willman's Wranglers. It was. I went
56:30
to go bum a dip off of this guy who I know now
56:33
is Trent Willman. Cody Johnson. I came in and
56:36
said, that man is the best thing that's ever
56:38
happened to a pair of blue jeans. And I was like,
56:41
right, Tremolo was hot. So then we write the
56:43
double, this is during like Super Bro era. So
56:46
we were like, writing idiotic is good now. So
56:50
we'll just write something idiotic. You're the
56:51
best. Yes. Happened to a pair of blue jeans.
56:55
You got me in your pocket like a skull ring.
56:58
Looking so good at it. Make me wanna thank you,
57:01
mama, baby. How's a girl supposed to act like
57:04
a lady? Going 32, 24 crazy. I ain't trying to
57:08
get in a budget. You got me wishing I was made
57:11
of denim. I love you. I love that. Thank you.
57:17
I mean, yeah, I ain't trying to get in them,
57:18
but you got me wishing I was made of denim. I
57:20
can't take credit for that line. That is all
57:22
Terry Jowell. I love that. Have you seen Trent
57:24
Wilman? He would crack up if he heard this. Amazing.
57:29
Anyway, yes. We've written some doozies. We've
57:33
had some turds. We could do this literally all
57:35
day, but... We're out of time for today and I'm
57:39
actually really sad. I kind of want you guys
57:40
to come back and do this again. You have so many
57:43
stories and you're all like, I feel like at every
57:45
turn I've been surprised and like, what a gift
57:49
that you guys have this friendship and this life.
57:51
You've got to live together as best friends.
57:54
Like that's so fun. And thank you. Thank you
57:56
for having us. For having us. Oh yeah. And doing
57:59
things like this because... I can scream it at
58:03
the top of my lungs, but you have a much further
58:05
reach for me to go, do you realize what this
58:08
woman is? Oh, I love that. I mean, that's the
58:11
point of this is to elevate songwriters, but
58:13
also collaborative relationships because there's
58:16
so many like special friendships and every one
58:19
of them is different. All of the guests that
58:20
we have have different kinds of relationships,
58:22
but it's still like what makes them like the
58:25
especially the artist writer ones. It's like
58:27
what makes the artist is part of that is their
58:30
community. And also too, just like the fact that
58:34
there's so many less female writers in town.
58:38
And so just the fact that two females have written
58:42
so many songs together over such a long period
58:45
of time, that's actually like not super common,
58:48
you know, in this town. I didn't even think about
58:50
that. Yeah, it's really special. The whole first
58:53
season of our podcast is doing... only female
58:56
collaborations because it's such a rarity. We're
58:59
like, this is such a cool thing. Like, we write
59:00
together a bunch, and so that's kind of what,
59:02
like, women's rights came from. But, like, we
59:04
were so excited to have you guys because of your
59:07
history together. And, like, this was, like,
59:10
I've enjoyed this conversation. I feel like I've
59:12
learned stuff. Like, thank you for taking the
59:14
time. Yeah, and Ashley's just... She's such a
59:16
loyal person, too, that, I mean, she has kept
59:20
me... in the fold of her success. I got kicked
59:26
out of a bar one night. And it was the rusty
59:30
nail. Imagine what you have to do to get kicked
59:31
out of the rusty nail. But I figured it out.
59:34
And I went over to where she was seated at the
59:37
bar. She was done with her part of the work for
59:38
the night. We were just there for probably kamikaze
59:40
karaoke. And I walked over to her and said, I'm
59:43
getting kicked out. We have to go. The woman
59:45
did not blink. She did not finish her drink or
59:48
her sentence. She grabbed her satchel and walked
59:51
out the door. I love that. I mean, that's friendship.
59:54
I love that. All right. Well, that's it for today.
59:57
That's the show. Thank you. I think that's a
1:00:00
great note to end on, the loyalty that you guys
1:00:03
have. Thank you to our sponsors, Kilometre and
1:00:05
dBV. For this episode, this is Women's Writes.