Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Dan Shields on Digital Medicine, AI and Redesigning Care Delivery

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Dan Shields on Digital Medicine, AI and Redesigning Care Delivery · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - Every health system executive right now is being
• 0:04
  - asked to do something that has no useful
• 0:06
  - precedent,
• 0:07
  - make durable technology decisions in an environment that
• 0:10
  - looks meaningfully different every six months.
• 0:13
  - The pace isn't slowing,
• 0:14
  - the vendor landscape isn't getting simpler, and the
• 0:17
  - cost of missteps
• 0:18
  - keeps rising.
• 0:19
  - Becker's eleventh annual IT and Revenue Cycle Conference,
• 0:23
  - The Future of AI and Digital Health, exists
• 0:25
  - for exactly this challenge.
• 0:27
  - Here, you'll find more than 2,500 executive level
• 0:30
  - attendees,
• 0:31
  - 600 plus speakers, and four days of sessions
• 0:34
  - built around the questions leaders are actually wrestling
• 0:36
  - with.
• 0:37
  - How to scale AI responsibly,
• 0:39
  - how to protect increasingly complex systems,
• 0:42
  - how to wring more performance out of the
• 0:44
  - revenue cycle, and how to make tech investments
• 0:46
  - that hold up over time.
• 0:48
  - Join us September fourteenth through the seventeenth at
• 0:51
  - the Hilton Chicago.
• 0:53
  - You can register on our events page at
• 0:55
  - beckershospitalreview.com
• 0:57
  - by clicking on the events tab in the
• 0:59
  - upper right.
• 1:01
  - This is Laura Dierda with the Becker's Healthcare
• 1:03
  - podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by
• 1:05
  - Dan Shields, chief executive officer of digital medicine
• 1:08
  - at Ochsner Health. Dan, it's a pleasure to
• 1:09
  - have you on the podcast today. Thanks very
• 1:11
  - much, Laura. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Now I'm
• 1:14
  - looking forward to our conversation. I know we're
• 1:15
  - gonna talk a bit about some of the
• 1:17
  - things you're doing on the digital medicine side
• 1:19
  - as well as how you're thinking about the
• 1:21
  - future. But before we do, can you tell
• 1:22
  - us just a little bit more about yourself
• 1:24
  - and your background?
• 1:25
  - Oh, sure. As Dan Shields, I lead digital
• 1:28
  - medicine at Ochsner. You know, digital medicine can
• 1:30
  - mean a lot of different things. Predominantly,
• 1:33
  - I kinda have three roles,
• 1:35
  - at Ochsner. Like most things, they they change
• 1:37
  - they change day to day. So but, mostly,
• 1:40
  - I lead a program that is focused on
• 1:43
  - helping patients to better manage chronic conditions. And
• 1:46
  - the focus
• 1:47
  - is largely in that kinda cardiometabolic, cardiomy, kidney
• 1:50
  - space. So, everything from obesity through to hypertension,
• 1:53
  - high cholesterol, diabetes,
• 1:55
  - CKD,
• 1:56
  - etcetera. So it was really designed,
• 1:59
  - now almost twelve years ago,
• 2:01
  - to help our providers with these patients, especially
• 2:03
  - in Louisiana, Mississippi where there's a high prevalence
• 2:06
  - of these conditions. And, you know, we we
• 2:08
  - are among the least healthy states in the
• 2:09
  - union in Louisiana and Mississippi,
• 2:11
  - to not only drive better outcomes for the
• 2:13
  - patients, but also give our patients a better,
• 2:15
  - you know, better, more accessible options to treat
• 2:17
  - these conditions. So my primary role is to,
• 2:21
  - you know, lead that effort
• 2:23
  - internally for our
• 2:24
  - our our providers and our patients. And at
• 2:26
  - any time, we have probably about 33, 34,000
• 2:29
  - patients on that that program. We do offer
• 2:31
  - it externally in some places as well. But
• 2:33
  - then I also sit on a team at
• 2:35
  - Ochsner,
• 2:36
  - that we call connected health that evaluates
• 2:38
  - technologies
• 2:39
  - and new initiatives,
• 2:41
  - where technology might be applied across the system.
• 2:43
  - So,
• 2:44
  - almost not everything, but almost every kinda new
• 2:46
  - technology based venture that comes into to to
• 2:49
  - Ochsner is evaluated by that team and, you
• 2:51
  - know, for where best what in what way
• 2:53
  - and where best to implement it as well.
• 2:54
  - So that's kind of a cool part of
• 2:55
  - the job that I enjoy as well.
• 2:57
  - That's neat to hear and definitely, you know,
• 3:00
  - very on the forefront and innovative when you
• 3:02
  - think about how technology is integrating into health
• 3:04
  - care and health care delivery. And then being
• 3:06
  - able to be on the forefront of that
• 3:07
  - and transforming health care, is just really unique.
• 3:10
  - So I'm excited to dig in here, and
• 3:12
  - and we'll just start off with this. Can
• 3:14
  - you give us a quick state of the
• 3:15
  - union? What's gone well this year, and what
• 3:17
  - are you focused on for the rest of
• 3:18
  - 2026?
• 3:20
  - So I'd say from the the the pure
• 3:21
  - digital medicine standpoint, it's been a really good
• 3:23
  - year. We actually have had a a record
• 3:25
  - year getting patients enrolled into the program. We're
• 3:28
  - we're constantly looking for different ways to to
• 3:30
  - integrate it, especially into our primary care space.
• 3:32
  - From a technology standpoint, like every other health
• 3:34
  - system out there, I'd say every organization, you
• 3:36
  - know, technology is just moving so quickly.
• 3:38
  - And to your point, you know, that the
• 3:39
  - technology comes in
• 3:41
  - so fast and furious. There's so many different
• 3:43
  - options and, so many different solutions being offered
• 3:46
  - right now that taking that centralized approach has
• 3:48
  - really kinda become necessary. Otherwise, you end up
• 3:51
  - having a lot of different, disparate pilots and
• 3:54
  - and a lot of different technologies around the
• 3:55
  - system the size of ours. So I'd say
• 3:57
  - we've we've had a really good year in,
• 3:59
  - driving enrollment and driving some of the outcomes
• 4:01
  - in the digital medicine world. We've also, you
• 4:04
  - know, we think, anyway, developed a pretty good
• 4:06
  - strategy around how are we gonna start to
• 4:07
  - implement some of these other technology changes and
• 4:10
  - and, more importantly, put some some good governance
• 4:13
  - around how they're being applied so that we
• 4:15
  - can look things from a a whole system
• 4:17
  - perspective as opposed to kind of the theme
• 4:20
  - of a lot of different silos around the
• 4:21
  - system. So, overall, I I think that that
• 4:23
  - it's going very well. A big focus for
• 4:26
  - the rest of the year
• 4:27
  - is really on for for me personally, is
• 4:30
  - on some care model redesign, specifically the primary
• 4:33
  - care space with some of the changes regulatory
• 4:35
  - changes that are coming.
• 4:37
  - Some of the the work that's required is,
• 4:39
  - you know, how do we,
• 4:41
  - fix the access problem? I know it's,
• 4:43
  - sounds a little dramatic, but I think one
• 4:46
  - of the existential crises we're dealing with in
• 4:48
  - health care is that we just don't have
• 4:49
  - enough providers to see the patients that we
• 4:51
  - have.
• 4:52
  - So we really need to start to combat
• 4:54
  - access, get more patients in to see our
• 4:56
  - providers,
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  - but there's just not enough providers to providers
• 4:58
  - to do that. So, you know, how do
• 5:00
  - we
• 5:01
  - look at ways to change that care model
• 5:03
  - so that our providers can can see more
• 5:06
  - patients? They can do it in a way
• 5:07
  - that,
• 5:08
  - they they can open up some of these
• 5:10
  - slots. It's in a way that's not gonna
• 5:11
  - impact the outcome, so you're still driving excellent
• 5:14
  - outcomes. But most importantly, taking providers that are
• 5:16
  - already on the verge of burnout and not
• 5:19
  - killing them either. You know, how do we
• 5:20
  - do it in a way that it's it's
• 5:21
  - supporting them,
• 5:23
  - and and not just asking them to do
• 5:25
  - more with less? So our big focus right
• 5:27
  - now for for 2026 and probably going forward
• 5:30
  - is how do we apply some of these
• 5:32
  - technologies
• 5:34
  - appropriately and and responsibly
• 5:36
  - so that we can kinda, you know, among
• 5:39
  - other things, solve that access problem.
• 5:41
  - That makes a lot of sense, you know,
• 5:42
  - and congratulations on having a a banner year
• 5:45
  - in terms of getting people signed up for
• 5:47
  - the, digital medicine programs and and then, troubleshooting,
• 5:50
  - you know, the things that come up. I
• 5:52
  - know it's always, you know, needing to do
• 5:54
  - the rollouts and then figure out how to
• 5:56
  - what what the issues are and then, how
• 5:58
  - to overcome them. And so from your perspective,
• 6:00
  - when you're thinking about the appropriate application, what
• 6:02
  - have you learned in this process, and, what
• 6:05
  - does it look like to to tackle some
• 6:07
  - of that, you know, in the next,
• 6:09
  - several months or so?
• 6:11
  - So I think what we need to do
• 6:13
  - is and and this is such an old
• 6:14
  - kinda theme in health care, so I think
• 6:16
  - we're always trying to do it. But how
• 6:17
  - do we break down,
• 6:19
  - you know, some of those different silos that
• 6:20
  - exist across the different parts of care? So,
• 6:23
  - you know, many of our
• 6:25
  - our programs or our solutions or even our
• 6:28
  - clinical models
• 6:29
  - over time are built up to solve a
• 6:31
  - very specific problem.
• 6:33
  - And as a result, they kind of develop
• 6:35
  - kind of a life and an an ecosystem
• 6:36
  - of their own. And now what we're trying
• 6:39
  - to do is is take more of a
• 6:40
  - across the system or across the patient actually,
• 6:42
  - a better way to put it across the
• 6:43
  - patient experience,
• 6:45
  - view of these things. One, because it's better
• 6:47
  - for the patients. Two, it's what the patients
• 6:49
  - expect.
• 6:50
  - So, you know, how do we
• 6:52
  - take some of these different really good solutions
• 6:55
  - or really good clinical models or really good
• 6:58
  - workflows or or ways that we we've designed
• 7:00
  - to treat these patients
• 7:02
  - and make sure that we're navigating those it's
• 7:04
  - gonna sound very buzzwordy and very cliche, but
• 7:07
  - how do we get those patients to the
• 7:09
  - right level of care at the right time,
• 7:12
  - you know, when they need it most. You
• 7:14
  - know, so not only are you you treating
• 7:15
  - the patient better, but you're using your system
• 7:18
  - and your your resources more appropriately as well.
• 7:21
  - So so that's kind of the the goal.
• 7:23
  - And when you talk about kind of challenges
• 7:25
  - or or things that that, you know, you
• 7:27
  - that we need to break down is that's
• 7:28
  - not the way it's designed. So how do
• 7:30
  - we take the way that we've been working
• 7:32
  - for, in some cases, a really long time
• 7:34
  - and start to reimagine it without, you know,
• 7:37
  - impact negatively impacting, you know, the the care
• 7:39
  - that we're delivering as well? So,
• 7:41
  - sounds a little cryptic, but when you look
• 7:43
  - at a large, you know, integrated health system,
• 7:45
  - there's a lot of different moving parts, and
• 7:46
  - everyone's doing a really good job. But how
• 7:48
  - do we make sure that we're not,
• 7:51
  - contradicting each other or overlapping each other? I
• 7:53
  - think that there's a a place for what
• 7:55
  - I I call very healthy overlap.
• 7:57
  - You know, not every there's no one solution
• 7:59
  - that's great for everybody. So, an example I
• 8:02
  - use often is,
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  - my chronic condition program that's digital is not
• 8:06
  - gonna be a fit fit for every patient.
• 8:08
  - They're not gonna be as comfortable with the
• 8:10
  - technology. They might not be, as comfortable using
• 8:12
  - a mobile app or might even have access
• 8:14
  - to a, you know, a smartphone that could
• 8:16
  - use it, for example. For those type of
• 8:18
  - patients, we have some really good diabetes education
• 8:20
  - programs, some really good chronic condition programs that
• 8:22
  - we we offer through our our population health
• 8:24
  - world.
• 8:25
  - But so that's an example of healthy overlap,
• 8:27
  - but we might also have a, you know,
• 8:28
  - two or three other chronic condition programs that
• 8:30
  - might compete in those same spaces. So how
• 8:33
  - do we pick the best of the best,
• 8:35
  - and where do we want one type of
• 8:38
  - patient to go in this particular mode, another
• 8:40
  - patient in the other, and navigate them appropriately,
• 8:44
  - and then look at, okay. Those are that
• 8:46
  - that's the best path. That's kind of the
• 8:48
  - if you use the term kinda happy path
• 8:49
  - to it. How do we then eliminate, you
• 8:52
  - know, people getting sidetracked into some of those
• 8:54
  - wrong programs that might not be the best
• 8:55
  - fit for them. So it's a lot of
• 8:57
  - moving parts and a lot of coordination and
• 8:59
  - not something that we've always done really well
• 9:01
  - in health care and something we're really focused
• 9:02
  - on.
• 9:03
  - And it's really helpful to understand, you know,
• 9:05
  - and and certainly, I can imagine easier said
• 9:08
  - than done to really dig into the that
• 9:10
  - space and do the reimagination
• 9:12
  - and then,
• 9:13
  - figure out, you know, how you can get
• 9:15
  - that adopted by the broader
• 9:17
  - organization. So, it makes a lot of sense.
• 9:19
  - Now when you're looking into the future, a
• 9:22
  - lot happening in health care today and as
• 9:24
  - well as, you know, likely to occur. So
• 9:26
  - what do you see as being some of
• 9:28
  - the headwinds that you keep your eye on
• 9:29
  - and you're focused on?
• 9:31
  - I think not getting sidetracked is a big
• 9:33
  - one. You know, I've already mentioned all the
• 9:35
  - different silos, so I won't go back through
• 9:36
  - that again. I mean, that that's just the
• 9:38
  - the
• 9:39
  - inertia is a big headwind, right, is is
• 9:41
  - to keep people from doing things the same
• 9:43
  - way. The other side of it is not
• 9:44
  - getting sidetracked because there's just so many different
• 9:47
  - opportunities and technologies out there.
• 9:50
  - Some of you feel competing for attention and,
• 9:54
  - and clicks and and candidly dollars, you know,
• 9:56
  - to to to try to and they're all
• 9:58
  - excellent solutions, but what is the right fit
• 10:00
  - for that?
• 10:01
  - And we've made it a good ten minutes
• 10:03
  - into this, and nobody said AI yet. So
• 10:05
  - I will. You know, there's the all these
• 10:07
  - different AI applications that that might make perfect
• 10:10
  - sense, but they can't, you know, they can't
• 10:12
  - all work together necessarily.
• 10:14
  - And I think that the especially for a
• 10:15
  - health system or care health system care delivery
• 10:18
  - model,
• 10:19
  - it's really focusing on not what is the
• 10:22
  - best
• 10:23
  - tool to use, what's the best technology, but
• 10:25
  - are you really building the right
• 10:27
  - infrastructure? Are you building the right, you know,
• 10:30
  - technology
• 10:31
  - governance and, you know, responsibility infrastructure
• 10:34
  - to make sure that these different tools can
• 10:36
  - be useful? So,
• 10:38
  - it's really easy to kinda
• 10:40
  - see something shiny and say, well, in it,
• 10:42
  - we should stop everything and go after this
• 10:43
  - because that just came out. So when when
• 10:46
  - when technology is moving as quickly as it
• 10:48
  - is and you try to develop a plan,
• 10:50
  - it it becomes very easy to deviate from
• 10:51
  - that plan. So, within reason, do they know
• 10:54
  - something's always gonna pop up. But the fact
• 10:56
  - that you can come up with a good
• 10:57
  - flexible plan, continue to execute on it, and
• 11:00
  - and not,
• 11:01
  - get sidetracked by something that that might pop
• 11:03
  - up along the execution of that plan, that's
• 11:06
  - actually one of the biggest challenges. So call
• 11:08
  - that a challenge, call it a headwind. You
• 11:09
  - know, sometimes we're our own headwinds, but,
• 11:12
  - that's really what we're we're focusing on is
• 11:14
  - how do we, you know, try to keep
• 11:16
  - our eye on what we're trying to get
• 11:17
  - done and not necessarily
• 11:19
  - try to
• 11:20
  - incorporate every single solution that we see out
• 11:22
  - there just because it it it looks like
• 11:24
  - it could have a good outcome.
• 11:26
  - That is a a really great advice. And
• 11:28
  - especially, I think, you know, to your point,
• 11:30
  - seeing how quickly the technology AI and more
• 11:33
  - is being
• 11:34
  - evolved and and can really support in a
• 11:36
  - good number of ways, but also,
• 11:38
  - you know, needing to understand some of the
• 11:40
  - challenges and risks that are involved with that
• 11:42
  - too,
• 11:43
  - and how to make sure that everyone within
• 11:46
  - the organization who is implementing, installing, or using
• 11:49
  - these technologies,
• 11:50
  - knows what's happening. So I think, you know,
• 11:53
  - to your point, bringing it back to, like,
• 11:55
  - submission and what's actually the most important thing
• 11:57
  - for the health system,
• 11:59
  - easier said than done and and definitely something
• 12:02
  - that takes a daily reminder in many ways,
• 12:04
  - it seems like, in order to stay on
• 12:06
  - track.
• 12:07
  - One of the things that's interesting is
• 12:09
  - and it's kinda changing,
• 12:11
  - at least from from our perspective, a little
• 12:13
  - bit of the model around some of the
• 12:15
  - that you typically roll how you typically would
• 12:17
  - roll out a technology, for example, in
• 12:20
  - a a system like ours. So, you know,
• 12:22
  - typically, you'd either internally develop or maybe you'd
• 12:25
  - use someone externally. You'd come up with some
• 12:27
  - sort of technology or a tool.
• 12:29
  - You vet it. You make sure it works
• 12:31
  - appropriately, and you then implement it, and you
• 12:34
  - roll it out. And and then it becomes
• 12:36
  - a a culture conversation
• 12:38
  - and a conversation around, will will will it
• 12:39
  - get adopted, whether it be in a more
• 12:41
  - administrative space or clinical. So, for example, I'll
• 12:44
  - use clinical. You know, will the will the
• 12:45
  - docs will the providers use it? Can we
• 12:47
  - get them to use it? That's kinda changing
• 12:49
  - a little bit now with how all this
• 12:51
  - stuff's coming together. It's
• 12:53
  - it's it's less about
• 12:54
  - I mean, yes. You need it to be
• 12:56
  - safe. You need the providers to adopt to
• 12:58
  - to buy into it and understand it. But,
• 13:01
  - really, what we're focusing on is how do
• 13:02
  - we change the care delivery model
• 13:05
  - to the point that it's not about adoption,
• 13:07
  - but we've changed
• 13:08
  - something about the way that we practice. So
• 13:11
  - it's it's not necessarily a a a specific
• 13:13
  - tool that you're trying to get someone to
• 13:15
  - use.
• 13:16
  - It's a
• 13:17
  - mode or a way of delivering care in
• 13:20
  - general that you're you're kinda moving them into.
• 13:23
  - And the hope is if you do it
• 13:24
  - right, it's not really an adoption. It's a
• 13:26
  - it's a this is the way we do
• 13:27
  - things now. And And I'm stealing this from
• 13:29
  - someone because I I heard it at a
• 13:30
  - conference, and I I don't remember who said
• 13:31
  - it or I give them credit. But a
• 13:33
  - great example of that again, it's another AI
• 13:35
  - ish type of example
• 13:37
  - is, if you do a Google search these
• 13:39
  - days.
• 13:40
  - I don't know about you, but if I
• 13:41
  - go on my phone and I do a
• 13:42
  - Google search,
• 13:43
  - I get the AI results first. Right?
• 13:46
  - Don't always love it, but I get the
• 13:48
  - AI results first. Nobody really you know, there
• 13:51
  - was no big rollout. There was no big
• 13:53
  - from here on out, here's how we're gonna
• 13:54
  - that's just how it was it it started
• 13:56
  - to be done. And over time, people are
• 13:58
  - getting more and more comfortable with that. I
• 14:00
  - think we need to kinda take a little
• 14:02
  - bit more of that type of approach in
• 14:03
  - rolling out technologies
• 14:05
  - provided it is gonna benefit the patient and
• 14:07
  - the providers and and the organization.
• 14:09
  - You know, we're just changing how you do
• 14:11
  - things. We're not necessarily asking for this widget
• 14:14
  - or tool for you to try and see
• 14:16
  - if you like it. So that's that's a
• 14:17
  - a big focus for us this year and,
• 14:19
  - I'd say, going forward.
• 14:21
  - What a great example of just how you
• 14:24
  - can really,
• 14:25
  - have that mindset in implementing technology and and,
• 14:29
  - keep it at pace, but then also
• 14:31
  - understand, you know, what it it's gonna take
• 14:33
  - in order to work that into the daily
• 14:35
  - life and workflows of folks. So, I I
• 14:38
  - really like that example a lot. Now I
• 14:40
  - can't take credit for it. Like I said,
• 14:41
  - I stole it. So Yeah.
• 14:43
  - Feel feel free to steal it too. I
• 14:44
  - don't remember who said it originally. Oh, for
• 14:46
  - sure. For sure. No. That's great.
• 14:48
  - And, you know, on the flip side of
• 14:50
  - it, how are you thinking about growth? What
• 14:51
  - are you excited by, and what are those
• 14:53
  - opportunities in the next two to three years
• 14:55
  - or so?
• 14:57
  - Specific to the the digital medicine program, I
• 14:59
  - think growth, if we do things right, will
• 15:01
  - kind of naturally dovetail with the other things
• 15:03
  - that we're trying to do. So if if
• 15:06
  - to kinda rephrase your question a little bit,
• 15:07
  - if I look two years in the future,
• 15:09
  - you know, kind of what is what is
• 15:10
  - the the what does good look like for
• 15:11
  - us and where are we trying to get
• 15:13
  - to,
• 15:13
  - especially in primary care,
• 15:15
  - you know, I I want
• 15:17
  - to build an environment
• 15:19
  - where we're seeing many, many more patients. Right?
• 15:22
  - So our our,
• 15:24
  - our our patients, especially in Louisiana and Mississippi,
• 15:26
  - especially rural patients, are not waiting, you know,
• 15:28
  - exorbitant amount of times for for visits, especially
• 15:30
  - in the primary care.
• 15:32
  - But then the the other
• 15:34
  - side effect of that is if you can
• 15:36
  - safely and effectively
• 15:38
  - improve or open up slots in primary care
• 15:40
  - or improve, you know, panel size in primary
• 15:43
  - care, you know, you start to again, I'm
• 15:46
  - gonna throw another buzzword out there. I apologize.
• 15:47
  - But you start to get providers to, you
• 15:49
  - know, really practice at that type of license.
• 15:51
  - So,
• 15:52
  - for example,
• 15:54
  - the migraine patients that really should be treated
• 15:57
  - in primary care, but because primary care is
• 15:59
  - so slammed and overrun,
• 16:00
  - that gets turfed off to neuro. Maybe that
• 16:03
  - stays in primary care. The hypertensive and this
• 16:06
  - does happen, believe it or not. Hypertension, which
• 16:08
  - absolutely should be treated in primary care and
• 16:10
  - probably, actually, you know, I'm biased here, but
• 16:12
  - should be treated digitally through some sort of
• 16:14
  - a a remote management program,
• 16:17
  - is not being turfed up to a cardiologist
• 16:19
  - because there's some complication and never sent back
• 16:22
  - down. So
• 16:24
  - it's it's our belief that if we can,
• 16:27
  - improve primary care so this is this is
• 16:29
  - growth for both our programs, but also growth
• 16:31
  - for the system. If we can improve primary
• 16:34
  - care, we we get to see more patients,
• 16:35
  - and we get we we solve an access
• 16:36
  - problem for our patients. But then, also, if
• 16:39
  - we can keep people in the right level,
• 16:41
  - for lack of a better way of putting
• 16:42
  - it, of care, you know, maybe we're open
• 16:44
  - up cardiologist
• 16:45
  - slots or neurology or nephrology,
• 16:47
  - these specialist visits that are, you know, frankly,
• 16:50
  - even infinitely more difficult, unfortunately, to get because
• 16:53
  - of the access problems,
• 16:55
  - than even primary care visits. So it's really
• 16:58
  - all about responsibly
• 17:00
  - being able to open up these slots and
• 17:02
  - see more patients.
• 17:03
  - And, you know, at the end of the
• 17:05
  - day, that's also,
• 17:06
  - you know, part of the the solution to
• 17:08
  - some of the financial challenges that health systems
• 17:10
  - see as well. It's not about just squeezing
• 17:13
  - out more revenue. It's how do we see
• 17:15
  - more patients, get more people kinda into the
• 17:17
  - system, and do it in a way where
• 17:18
  - you're seeing the right patient, again, in the
• 17:20
  - right place,
• 17:21
  - and delivering the right outcomes, which kind of
• 17:23
  - is the win for everybody.
• 17:25
  - So growth will come if we can build
• 17:27
  - that model where we can actually get so
• 17:29
  - when you ask the best opportunity for growth
• 17:30
  - in the next couple years, I look two
• 17:32
  - years and we're operating that model. The growth
• 17:34
  - will follow it.
• 17:35
  - I love it. And just really seeing how,
• 17:38
  - you're able
• 17:39
  - to feed into those providers, feed into the
• 17:42
  - program, and create that access point. I think
• 17:45
  - to your point, so many people are looking
• 17:46
  - for ways that they can access health care
• 17:49
  - more strongly and efficiently in in ways they
• 17:51
  - used to through their digital products. So, this
• 17:53
  - is a really cool vision of what health
• 17:55
  - care could look like in the future and
• 17:56
  - how communities
• 17:57
  - will be better served once we can, get
• 17:59
  - to that point where the technology has has,
• 18:02
  - made health care more accessible.
• 18:04
  - You know, there's a,
• 18:06
  - a a a study out there that we
• 18:07
  - we cite a lot. And, again, not not
• 18:10
  - mine. We didn't do the study. But,
• 18:12
  - it was in the general general internal medicine,
• 18:14
  - and it looked at primary care
• 18:16
  - and said that right now,
• 18:19
  - in if the average primary care provider has
• 18:21
  - around, you know, 1,800, 2,000 patients,
• 18:24
  - how many hours in the day would it
• 18:25
  - take
• 18:26
  - for them to
• 18:28
  - deliver good evidence based care? Meaning, all the
• 18:30
  - acute care that you typically see, but also
• 18:33
  - treating chronic conditions and doing, preventive medicine, charting
• 18:36
  - and coding, all that stuff.
• 18:38
  - And it adds up to twenty seven hours,
• 18:39
  - like, twenty six point seven hours, something crazy,
• 18:41
  - a day, which is it's obviously not possible.
• 18:44
  - Right? That's that's and even if you say
• 18:46
  - there's some hyperbole in there to kinda prove
• 18:47
  - a point, it's still obviously way more than
• 18:49
  - you have time in the day for.
• 18:51
  - But the same study so that gets all
• 18:52
  - the headlines. But the same study went on
• 18:55
  - to say that if you could deliver good
• 18:57
  - team based care, that gets down to about
• 18:59
  - eight or nine hours, which is much more
• 19:00
  - reasonable.
• 19:02
  - But we obviously, in typical payer models, don't
• 19:05
  - get paid for team based care. There's not
• 19:06
  - you know, you get paid for one provider
• 19:08
  - to do one intervention. So part of this
• 19:10
  - theory,
• 19:11
  - is if we can
• 19:13
  - build,
• 19:14
  - essentially what looks like a care team, but
• 19:17
  - instead of it all being people, it's a
• 19:18
  - combination of a really good primary care provider,
• 19:21
  - a really good advanced practice provider to support
• 19:24
  - him or her.
• 19:25
  - Maybe it's ambient listening technology. It's a digital
• 19:27
  - medicine program like mine. Maybe a pharmacist. So
• 19:30
  - a combination of people
• 19:32
  - and technology to build that team
• 19:34
  - to now kinda build that eight hour day
• 19:36
  - instead of the twenty seven hour day. You're
• 19:38
  - kind of using technology to kinda build a
• 19:39
  - different care model. So, yeah, it it really
• 19:42
  - is looking at it not necessarily as a
• 19:44
  - technology fix, but what's that best combination of
• 19:46
  - people and technology
• 19:48
  - to make them, you know, most efficient and
• 19:50
  - hopefully really enjoy their job again too and
• 19:52
  - not feel like they're just on a on
• 19:53
  - a treadmill.
• 19:55
  - That's such a great point in thinking about
• 19:57
  - the, clinician
• 19:58
  - well-being as well and then looking at how
• 20:00
  - some of these team based models,
• 20:02
  - could
• 20:03
  - really solve a variety of issues and and
• 20:05
  - make the care more efficient and effective. So
• 20:07
  - it makes a lot of sense and, you
• 20:08
  - know, obviously, as you mentioned, need, you know,
• 20:11
  - more of the payer redesign to go along
• 20:13
  - with it, but seems like a great, way
• 20:15
  - to kinda, like, think about the future and
• 20:17
  - and see where things can go. Now before
• 20:20
  - we wrap up here, I wanted to ask
• 20:21
  - you about leadership. Who is a leader really
• 20:24
  - from any industry that you admire and why?
• 20:27
  - It's a good question. And and it it
• 20:28
  - it's a tough question because there's a lot
• 20:30
  - of people that I work with directly, you
• 20:31
  - know, here at Ochsner that I that I
• 20:32
  - admire, including including my boss, but that seems
• 20:34
  - like pandering way too much. But, you know,
• 20:36
  - doctor De Spazalma, I have a, is our
• 20:38
  - our chief digital officer. I'm a I'm a
• 20:39
  - huge fan,
• 20:41
  - and and a lot of other leaders, you
• 20:42
  - know, all the way up to to p
• 20:43
  - November and even some of the physician leaders
• 20:45
  - that I work with. But I think that's
• 20:46
  - a little too self serving and cheating, and
• 20:48
  - I think it'd be easy to throw out
• 20:49
  - a couple different industry folks. But,
• 20:51
  - I'm gonna cheat even more, and I'm actually
• 20:53
  - gonna say, my wife's boss, which sounds silly.
• 20:56
  - But my wife actually works here in sub
• 20:59
  - I live in outside of Philadelphia.
• 21:01
  - So in Suburban Philadelphia, she works for a
• 21:02
  - small not for profit that helps people to
• 21:06
  - it started out as a diaper bank, actually,
• 21:07
  - but that also helps people with limited resources
• 21:10
  - with everything from,
• 21:12
  - groceries, but more like food. I'm sorry. More
• 21:14
  - like clothing, backpacks,
• 21:16
  - some household items, you know, people that that,
• 21:18
  - you know, they kinda put in a request
• 21:19
  - for things they need, and they just went
• 21:21
  - through back to school time, which is a
• 21:22
  - really, really busy time for them. But, the
• 21:24
  - reality is there's way more need than they
• 21:26
  - could ever have. At any given time, there
• 21:27
  - are probably 200, 300 applications behind, you know,
• 21:30
  - where they they could, and everyone that works
• 21:32
  - there could probably work two hundred hours a
• 21:34
  - week, and they still wouldn't get caught up
• 21:35
  - on the number of applications or or or
• 21:37
  - or requests that come in for them. But
• 21:40
  - this, you know, leadership team there in particular,
• 21:41
  - you know, the the founder of it manages
• 21:44
  - to keep people, you know, just focused on
• 21:46
  - that mission,
• 21:47
  - focused on the good that they're doing, not
• 21:49
  - getting overwhelmed by you know, focus on fact
• 21:51
  - that they can only you know, take only
• 21:52
  - so much they can do in the day
• 21:53
  - and everything they're doing is good work. Right?
• 21:55
  - So I kind of not to bring it
• 21:57
  - back. I kind of equate it a little
• 21:58
  - bit to what we see in health care.
• 22:00
  - You know? There there's always gonna be more
• 22:01
  - need. There's always gonna be more that you
• 22:03
  - can do, and and how do we keep
• 22:04
  - trying to get ahead of it. But at
• 22:06
  - the same time, you know, as long as
• 22:07
  - you're doing good work and the work you're
• 22:09
  - doing is is for the greater good, you
• 22:10
  - know, there there's something in that. So so
• 22:13
  - I I I'm always amazed when I especially,
• 22:15
  - you know, working for a large organization like
• 22:17
  - I do and seeing a tiny one like
• 22:18
  - theirs that's trying to do so much stuff,
• 22:20
  - just how they manage to keep it together
• 22:22
  - and keep it positive and
• 22:24
  - keep pushing forward every day. Because, frankly, it
• 22:26
  - you could arguably look at this just massive
• 22:28
  - need around them and get really kinda discouraged
• 22:30
  - by it, but they managed to keep plugging
• 22:32
  - away at it. So that's actually a a
• 22:34
  - a leadership quality that if you can keep
• 22:36
  - it positive, you can keep people motivated without
• 22:38
  - you know, in a in a environment where
• 22:39
  - it's difficult to, I I think that's good
• 22:41
  - leadership to me.
• 22:43
  - I love it. That's so inspiring to hear
• 22:45
  - about it, and and what a great example
• 22:46
  - of, you know, the persistence, the mission driven,
• 22:49
  - and certainly the understanding of there's always need.
• 22:52
  - And so being able to,
• 22:54
  - continue chipping away resiliently
• 22:57
  - is such a skill, and and I love
• 22:58
  - that, pointed out as a leadership. So, Dan,
• 23:01
  - thank you so much for joining us on
• 23:03
  - the podcast today. This has been a really
• 23:05
  - fun conversation and cool to hear everything you're
• 23:07
  - doing at Ochsner as well. I'm excited to,
• 23:10
  - see you in person, our CEO, CFO roundtable.
• 23:12
  - I know you'll be speaking with us, and
• 23:14
  - so it'll be a a good time to
• 23:16
  - connect and dig deeper into the things we
• 23:18
  - talked about today.
• 23:19
  - No. I'm looking forward to it. I I
• 23:20
  - actually last year, I got to, I think,
• 23:22
  - a few of the events. And this year,
• 23:23
  - just because of the way that you went,
• 23:25
  - this is this is the only one I'm
• 23:26
  - gonna make it to, so I'm really looking
• 23:27
  - forward to it. Excellent. Absolutely. Well, we're looking
• 23:30
  - forward to having you, and it'll be great
• 23:31
  - to,
• 23:32
  - catch up.
• 23:33
  - Alright. Appreciate your time. Thanks so much.