Latest / The Sean O'Connell Show / Bobby Marks on the Utah Jazz, Why is their method of tanking this year so egregious (?), JJJ out for rest of the season + more

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Bobby Marks on the Utah Jazz, Why is their method of tanking this year so egregious (?), JJJ out for rest of the season + more · The Sean O'Connell Show

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  Speaker 1: You were listening to a Sean O'Connell show, your source
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  Speaker 1: for the best youths football couple of weeks. Here's oc
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  Speaker 1: from the Murdoch Hyundai Studio of ESPN seven hundred ninety
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  Speaker 1: one half.
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  Speaker 2: Its Sean o'connall show.
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  Speaker 3: Here our number three on ESPN seven hundred ninety TWEFM.
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  Speaker 3: We're lucky enough to welcome in Bobby Marts, NBA insider,
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  Speaker 3: NBA Front office insider over at ESPN noted advocate for
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  Speaker 3: adoptable animals as well.
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  Speaker 2: Bobby, welcome to the show. How are you?
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  Speaker 4: I'm good? How are we doing?
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  Speaker 2: Doing all right?
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  Speaker 4: You?
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  Speaker 3: You stirred up a little hornets nest here in Salt
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  Speaker 3: Lake City?
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  Speaker 2: Which did?
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  Speaker 4: I don't think the Utah Marching Band is gonna be
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  Speaker 4: waiting for me when I land at the at the
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  Speaker 4: airport there. Goodness great that I touched the nerve. I see.
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  Speaker 3: Well, you probably know enough about us around here to
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  Speaker 3: know that we're very territorial about our sports and our
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  Speaker 3: sports teams. You are so like the comment will us
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  Speaker 3: the Utah Jazz tanking or you know, lack of a
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  Speaker 3: better term, tanking is messing around with the integrity of
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  Speaker 3: the NBA.
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  Speaker 2: I want to give you an opportunity for to clarify
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  Speaker 2: on the court.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, on the court, Okay, that's that's what I'm When
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  Speaker 4: you manipulate the game that messes around with the integrity
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  Speaker 4: of the game, that that's what That's what I was
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  Speaker 4: referring to, certainly what happened in Orlando. When you're you know,
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  Speaker 4: you're winning, and you take your starters out and you
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  Speaker 4: rest them in the fourth quarter, that's when you start
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  Speaker 4: manipulating with as you know, the integrity, the ability to
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  Speaker 4: the rest players, the ability to have you know, injured
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  Speaker 4: players not play the rest of the season. We've all
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  Speaker 4: done that, you know, We've we've all done that. As
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  Speaker 4: far as the ability to you know, focus on player
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  Speaker 4: development the second half of the season and all that
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  Speaker 4: and jockeying for lottery. But I I know where I
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  Speaker 4: know where Utah is, and the you know, the ability
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  Speaker 4: to retain their first is is certainly a priority for them.
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  Speaker 4: And if it falls outside the top eight, it goes
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  Speaker 4: to Oklahoma City. But no, my my, uh, And I
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  Speaker 4: know it's been because I've I've seen it and people said, well,
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  Speaker 4: s Antonio, did it look at Sacramento last night? My
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  Speaker 4: comments were more batches on the court, not kind of
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  Speaker 4: everything else out there.
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  Speaker 2: Sure that that makes perfect sense?
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  Speaker 3: How how is it different though, tanking wire to wire
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  Speaker 3: from the opening tip of a game all the way
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  Speaker 3: to the end with the player being left on the
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  Speaker 3: bench because of a phantom injury or shut down with
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  Speaker 3: the minor surgery or something like that, versus just making
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  Speaker 3: the outcome is the same. You lose the game, but
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  Speaker 3: Lowry markinen And and Jared Jackson Junior get three quarters
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  Speaker 3: of basketball together. The goal is oddly, strangely uncomfortably to lose.
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  Speaker 3: How how is how does it matter? How is it
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  Speaker 3: different if you lose one quarter versus four?
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  Speaker 4: Well, I mean you're you're up, You're up in the
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  Speaker 4: fourth quarter, and then all of a sudden you're your
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  Speaker 4: adventure for your starters. I mean we all know it's
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  Speaker 4: why the reason is? I mean, that's I think that matters.
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  Speaker 4: That should matter. Compared with I would have been happier
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  Speaker 4: if those guys have never even stepped on the court.
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  Speaker 2: I'm asking you why why would you be happier with that? Though?
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  Speaker 4: Because the game is going on when once, once you
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  Speaker 4: step on the court, the goal is to put your
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  Speaker 4: best players out there that that's I mean.
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  Speaker 2: We know that's not we know that's not true.
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  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no that listen. I've never seen
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  Speaker 4: what happen over the weekend before where you basically pull
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  Speaker 4: your starters in the fourth quarter. I that this isn't
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  Speaker 4: the preseason, and I understand the goal is to get
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  Speaker 4: a high lottery pick and retain your pick. And understand
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  Speaker 4: there and and and to go through a game and
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  Speaker 4: you're going on a you know, the other team's going
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  Speaker 4: on a fifteen to oh run and we're not calling
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  Speaker 4: time match and we're not doing anything like That's that's
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  Speaker 4: what bothered And it wasn't just me. Listen, you can
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  Speaker 4: you can pull a third of the league and everything that.
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  Speaker 4: That's a pretty wide, wide, love ranging consensus there.
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  Speaker 2: I I understand. I'm not trying to attack you for
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  Speaker 2: having the opinion.
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  Speaker 3: I don't understand why that is different than not having
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  Speaker 3: the guys in the lineup in the first place when
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  Speaker 3: they actually are available, when they are healthy enough to play,
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  Speaker 3: and you say they got back spasms. Because the goal
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  Speaker 3: is the same for teams in these situations, and we've
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  Speaker 3: seen many examples of it where you just don't play
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  Speaker 3: them at all, playing them for three quarters or not
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  Speaker 3: playing them at all, if it results in a loss,
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  Speaker 3: or you don't call timeouts, that it results in a
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  Speaker 3: loss when the goal is, you know, without saying the
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  Speaker 3: quiet part out loud, your goal is to lose as
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  Speaker 3: many games as you can so you can protect this
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  Speaker 3: pick or you can maximize your draft lottery odds. We've
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  Speaker 3: seen we've seen the Jazz do it the other way
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  Speaker 3: where they just don't play Lowry marketing and they say, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: he's he's hurt, and and you.
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  Speaker 2: Didn't react that way.
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  Speaker 3: A third of the league didn't react that way when
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  Speaker 3: you probably knew Lowry was healthy enough to play, but
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  Speaker 3: he just didn't.
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  Speaker 4: No, sure, yeah, No, I mean I think I think,
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  Speaker 4: as I said, listen, I think if we're if we're ranking,
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  Speaker 4: I guess the way to tank to the ability to
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  Speaker 4: manipulate the game while it's going on, I would put
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  Speaker 4: up as the number one reason why it irks. It
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  Speaker 4: certainly irks me, and it probably irks a lot of
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  Speaker 4: people out there.
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  Speaker 2: Does it matter to anyone besides Betters? Is that?
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  Speaker 3: Is that why there's like a lot of anger about this,
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  Speaker 3: because you know it changes one of the major revenue
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  Speaker 3: streams for people associated with the league, for the league itself,
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  Speaker 3: with all the betting stuff that goes on in pro sports,
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  Speaker 3: and you think, you know, these guys are playing, and
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  Speaker 3: they are playing, that that might change the way that
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  Speaker 3: the betting outcomes happen if you inexplicably bench them in
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  Speaker 3: a quarter or a half or whatever.
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  Speaker 4: That's probably a question for some I don't get involved
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  Speaker 4: in the gambling aspect of this aw like that. That's
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  Speaker 4: somebody for you know, DraftKings or Fan Duel or or
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  Speaker 4: one of those companies to answer that. I do know
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  Speaker 4: that from you know, I guess what they've been told.
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  Speaker 4: You know, certainly some games or certain teams are going
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  Speaker 4: to be pulled off the board because of you know,
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  Speaker 4: situations like that. But yeah, that's that's something for for
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  Speaker 4: one of those companies to answer there.
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  Speaker 3: As far as the NBA rules are concerned, where look,
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  Speaker 3: the the NBA is concerned about tanking diminishing the product,
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  Speaker 3: and they will find teams and they will you know,
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  Speaker 3: give you the slap on the wrist or a serious
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  Speaker 3: reprimand or you know, a financial penalty for for doing
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  Speaker 3: the the other form of tanking, for not making a
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  Speaker 3: player available when the league decides he should be available
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  Speaker 3: on the second half of a back to back or whatever.
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  Speaker 3: Is this something now the league is going to have
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  Speaker 3: to address in this jazz method, where like you can't
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  Speaker 3: you can't bench someone for a fourth quarter randomly because
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  Speaker 3: I don't know how you.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know how you do it. I don't know
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  Speaker 4: how you do it. I mean, and it's not Listen,
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  Speaker 4: this is not just Utah like this is you know,
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  Speaker 4: certainly a you know or or the team that's talked
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  Speaker 4: about a lot here, but it's you know that the
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  Speaker 4: league has an issue, and the league created the issue.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, we we we live in a world where
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  Speaker 4: we incentivize tanking, We incentivize teams to lose, to build
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  Speaker 4: to get the best draft pick possible. And that from
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  Speaker 4: a you know, there's a two ways to look at it.
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  Speaker 4: From from being in a front office and having gone
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  Speaker 4: through it, I get it, you know, I would want
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  Speaker 4: to get the highest pick possible out there. And then
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  Speaker 4: there's certainly the you know, the media perspective and and
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  Speaker 4: from from that angle there and the league is the
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  Speaker 4: one that is going to need to address it. And
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  Speaker 4: it's not going to be you know, Hey, we're going
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  Speaker 4: to remove pick protection and we're going to do some
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  Speaker 4: of these other things. They're the ones who are going
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  Speaker 4: to have to figure out how do you not incentivize
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  Speaker 4: teams from losing certainly the second you know, the second
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  Speaker 4: half of the year, because in reality, the product on
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  Speaker 4: the court is not very good right now. Like that's
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  Speaker 4: that's the big reality here. You know, we're watching some
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  Speaker 4: of these games and teams are losing by forty to
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  Speaker 4: fifty points, and and some of it's because players are resting.
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  Speaker 4: Some of it's because you know, certainly some players are
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  Speaker 4: being held out. And I think, how do you get
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  Speaker 4: back to where there's more of a better product on
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  Speaker 4: the court.
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  Speaker 3: If if Adam Silver calls you and says, Bobby, I
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  Speaker 3: want you to save us from our own problem with creation,
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  Speaker 3: what would your suggestion be.
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  Speaker 2: Do you have a good plan to address this for
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  Speaker 2: the NBA?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think listen, I you know, Mike's
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  Speaker 4: Aaron who who working who is at the assistant jam
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  Speaker 4: with Celtics, proposed something a while back where it's a
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  Speaker 4: wheel where it's basically like you know, it's almost like
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  Speaker 4: you know, playing a carnival game here where you're basically
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  Speaker 4: kind of spinning the wheel and and it rotates by
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  Speaker 4: year by year, and it's not based on it's not
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  Speaker 4: based on how how you finish and you finish in
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  Speaker 4: the standings. I think that's certainly one thing. And you know,
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  Speaker 4: of course the league will probably look at you freeze,
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  Speaker 4: you know, the records at the a certain point of
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  Speaker 4: the year. I think they've done, you know, the the
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  Speaker 4: goal of you know, finished getting the best pick because
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  Speaker 4: you have the worst record. I think that has certainly helped,
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  Speaker 4: because you're you're you have a better chance at if
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  Speaker 4: you're at number one going into lottery. I've finishing at
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  Speaker 4: four or five here, So they've certainly have flattened out
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  Speaker 4: they've certainly flattened out the odds more here. But I
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  Speaker 4: do think, how do we get to a how do
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  Speaker 4: we get to a position in the second half where
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  Speaker 4: the games mean thing, mean something for teams outside of
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  Speaker 4: teams you know, competing for a playoff spot.
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  Speaker 3: We started the show today almost laughing about the timing
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  Speaker 3: of an announcement that that Jaron Jackson Junior was going
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  Speaker 3: to be shut down the rest of the way for
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  Speaker 3: a knee surgery, because you know, the Jazz are never
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  Speaker 3: talked about the Utah Jazz. Are never like, well, their
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  Speaker 3: names come not coming out of your mouth all that often.
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  Speaker 3: And the other big time NBA insiders were talking about
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  Speaker 3: the Utah Jazz for less than pleasant reasons. But then
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  Speaker 3: immediately following this, the team makes an announcement like, oh,
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  Speaker 3: we didn't realize this about his knee when we made
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  Speaker 3: the trade, and now we realize that about his knee,
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  Speaker 3: so we're going to shut him down. I couldnot separate
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  Speaker 3: those two things from a timing perspective. Uh, when you
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  Speaker 3: saw the announcement, what did you think?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. I mean it was something I
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  Speaker 4: never heard of.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, I thought I would be ignorant by not knowing
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  Speaker 3: what that was. I was just like, hold on a second.
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  Speaker 3: I've been covering sports. I play. I've heard every possible
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  Speaker 3: knee injury there is. I've never heard a PVSN.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I listened. I never want to go down
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  Speaker 4: and you know, I don't want to go down the
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  Speaker 4: rabbit hole and stuff like that. Certainly, if if a
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  Speaker 4: players hurt and he's you know, I don't think anybody
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  Speaker 4: really elects to have surgery. He shouldn't least, you know, Will,
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  Speaker 4: you know, Willingly and everything like that. So but yeah, listen,
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  Speaker 4: he's if he's heard, he's hurt and he's you know,
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  Speaker 4: and he's out for the year. But listen, I would listen.
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  Speaker 4: I am a huge fan the guys in that front
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  Speaker 4: office and will will as a heck of a coach,
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  Speaker 4: And I like it wasn't it really wasn't directed at Utah.
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  Speaker 4: It's really directed at the whole league. But I think
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  Speaker 4: that one, as we talked about that one situation kind
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  Speaker 4: of irked me a little bit more than probably some
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  Speaker 4: of the other things that hadn't been going on.
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  Speaker 3: Bobby Marks, our guest here on the Sean O'Connell show,
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  Speaker 3: talking all things hoop. If you extricate the tanking and
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  Speaker 3: all that, and you just examined this Utah Jazz roster
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  Speaker 3: post trade and how Jaron Jackson Junior elevates this front
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  Speaker 3: court especially and maybe accelerates a timeline where this team
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  Speaker 3: can be competitive Like your front office hat, what does
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  Speaker 3: it tell you about what this trade does for the
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  Speaker 3: Utah Jazz.
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  Speaker 4: I think you have to like it. I mean, I
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  Speaker 4: think you saw I think you've seen some climpse of
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  Speaker 4: it during during the last week here when they've gone
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  Speaker 4: with a big lineup, whether it be with him or
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  Speaker 4: Larry and and Nurk. And if you swap out NRK
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  Speaker 4: and you put Kessler in there next year, you've got
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  Speaker 4: three big I think that, you know, if Keante hadn't
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  Speaker 4: taken such a big step like he's done this year,
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  Speaker 4: I don't know if you're if you're doing a deal
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  Speaker 4: like that and you know you'll likely add a you know,
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  Speaker 4: top eight, you know you should add a top eight
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  Speaker 4: pick here, and it could be a really good draft here.
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  Speaker 4: So I think, you know, when we remove everything else,
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  Speaker 4: I like. I like the direction of where they are.
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  Speaker 4: I like the trade. I think you had to be
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  Speaker 4: somewhat of aggressive and and you know, accelerate the the
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  Speaker 4: rebuild a little bit here and you traded some picks that,
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  Speaker 4: as you know, acquired in the past and you were
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  Speaker 4: able to cash in on them.
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  Speaker 3: How should we feel about Kee George as you know,
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  Speaker 3: the the emerging player that he became, really especially this year.
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  Speaker 3: A little ankle injury, you know, taken some time away
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  Speaker 3: from him. But is he now has he played himself
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  Speaker 3: into that I'm part of the core, meaningful part of
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  Speaker 3: the jazz core, moving forward conversation he has.
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  Speaker 4: I think that, you know, the the biggest question I
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  Speaker 4: had with with Utah this was last offseason here is
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  Speaker 4: kind of who is that blue chip prospect?
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  Speaker 1: Right?
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  Speaker 4: Who is that if we're using like baseball and out,
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  Speaker 4: who's that triple A player that you know is ready
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  Speaker 4: to get called up and have an impact here. And
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  Speaker 4: I think it's one thing that the draft and I
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: have all these players on you know, rookie contracts and everything,
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  Speaker 4: but eventually you got to you got to hit on
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  Speaker 4: on some of them. And I think that's probably a
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  Speaker 4: big reason why you know, they selected Ace in the draft.
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  Speaker 4: But I think the jump from where Kante is, I
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  Speaker 4: think you could probably put him in that blue chip conversation.
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  Speaker 3: Well, we're hoping that this upcoming NBA Draft they can
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  Speaker 3: acquire another blue chip talent. And obviously that's a big
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  Speaker 3: part of why the tank is happening. I called it
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  Speaker 3: a gentleman's tank for a while because they're trying. They're trying,
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  Speaker 3: They're trying to do it without being obvious. Now post trade,
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  Speaker 3: I think they're like, look, guys, we're doing it. We're
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  Speaker 3: hustling towards the spot where we're competitive again. And the
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  Speaker 3: fan base seems to have kind of accepted that reality.
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  Speaker 3: And I probably count myself among those here in Salt
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  Speaker 3: Lake that are like, fine, if this is what you
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  Speaker 3: got to do to get there, go ahead. But it
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  Speaker 3: still means you're hoping for a great pick this year.
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  Speaker 3: And obviously, you know, people have googly eyes for Aj
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  Speaker 3: Debonsa and his association here at b YU. When you
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: look at the players in this draft, how do you
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  Speaker 3: handicap them? And who do you think is most likely
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  Speaker 3: to end up in Utah? Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: I mean I think I think you know, certainly with
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  Speaker 4: what Aj has been able to do at b YU,
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  Speaker 4: and you guys have seen him an up close of
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: him and his body of work certainly a big wing. Uh.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: You know, Darren Peterson is going to be an interesting
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: conversation at Kansas just because he's probably the most talented player,
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  Speaker 4: but the inability, the availability hasn't been there, you know,
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  Speaker 4: as much as people would hope. You know, Cam Boozer
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  Speaker 4: at Duke is more of a big I don't know
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  Speaker 4: if that fits where where you are with you know,
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  Speaker 4: with your with your bigs and everything like that. Kingston Plumbings,
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  Speaker 4: who is at Who's just there for a couple of
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  Speaker 4: games from from from Houston. Uh is a you know,
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  Speaker 4: a heck of a player here. So I think, listen,
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  Speaker 4: I think the top of it is really good. I
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  Speaker 4: think if you're in the if you're at the end
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  Speaker 4: of you know, in the seven that you know, seven
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  Speaker 4: to eight range, I think it's really strong. You know,
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  Speaker 4: some people are equating it to the ninety sixth draft
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  Speaker 4: and the O three draft, which we're somewhat generational here,
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  Speaker 4: but you know, it's it's it's American dominated. I think
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: there's the majority of the top thirteen, top fourteen or
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  Speaker 4: are based on you know, college kids who are freshmen
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  Speaker 4: right now. So I do think there's a there's an
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  Speaker 4: opportunity to go out and get an impact player.
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  Speaker 3: What are we going to say when we look back
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: at this All Star break coming up, about the format
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: changes and about the players who get to participate versus
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: who don't. Is this going to be the fix that
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: the NBA hopes it will be?
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  Speaker 4: Well, you know what, if you listen to Kevin Durant,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: he kind of a little little bit of a fire
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: under the international group, I would say right as far
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: as him, you know, basically calling out Luca and probably
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: Luca's not playing, but Luca and Jokic and that group
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: basically saying, hey, why is it the Americans that are
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: always called out? I'm watching them, you know, flop and
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: not take this game series here, So maybe that kind
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: of sets a little bit of a tone there.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Cooper Flag.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: We all fell in love with the idea of him
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: potentially ending up in Salt Lake City. Obviously it didn't
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: happen that way, but we've got a nice sample size.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: He's going to miss the All Star Game a weekend,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: and he's going to miss this game as the Lakers,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: I guess. But where is he at in terms of
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: what you expected from him as.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: A world man? Yeah, he's I think he's every bit
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: as advertised as he was coming out of Duke and
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: I know it kind of got off a little bit
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: of a slower start, but I think that's part of him,
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: you know, just kind of figuring out his way with
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Dallas and I love his balance, I love his ability
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: to get downhill. I think he's tough as nails here.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: As you said, he's got a little bit of an
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: injury right now, so you won't see him in the
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: Rising Stars game. And everything like that. But yeah, I
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: mean him, you know, con Canipple has been really good,
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: you know in Charlotte there. I always go back to
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: seeing him like, how did this team that win the
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: national championship when you had that you know, that duke
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: team which was pretty loaded there. But no, he's been
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: Cooper's been really good.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: How much of aj Debonsa have you been watching? Is
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: he as advertised? Is he like this year's Cooper Flag.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: I think he's the most consistent player out of the group.
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: I think there's some consistency. I you know, I don't
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: remember a time. I think this was a game in
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: late December where teams are already game planning for a
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: player by whether it be sending doubles at him in
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: a you know, in a late December early January game
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: where it's the primary focus to take that player out
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: of the game. So yeah, I've you know, I've seen
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: him play a bunch here. I do think listen, it's
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: a it's a position of need. We always sat around
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: the front office say, how do we get a big wing?
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: How do we get a six seven six eighth wing
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: that can score? I think there's still a lot more
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: for him to develop with. But I think he could
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: be He could be really good.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Bobby.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: I can't tell you how much I appreciate you jumping
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: on with me, especially after you know, probably your Twitter
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: was blown up by I'm in.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: A good sport about it, and I said, I knew
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: as soon as you know. I had a friend who
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: said to me, I don't know if you're pretty popular
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: in Salt Lake City right now, and I listen, if
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: they call, I'll definitely come on on the radio and
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: and talk about it. Well.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I appreciate that because not everyone would. And we had
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: we had Gordy Chias in studio earlier. Today he joins
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: us every week to talk NBA basketball, and he had
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: nice things to say. So even if a lot of
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: jazz fans don't have nice things to say, Gordy Chias was.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: Don't forget when listen when you get that picking it. Look,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: we get to mid May and you're you're picking in
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: the top eight or maybe one or two, they're gonna
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: they're all gonna forget about me.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: As long as you say nice things.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: We people here are elephants, man, I will Bobby, thanks
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: for your time. Appreciate you, sir, Bobby Marks ESPN NBA
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Insider spent a lot of time working. You know, a
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: couple of decades working in the NBA in front offices,