Latest / Project Podcast / Legacy and impact: Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth Games

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Legacy and impact: Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth Games · Project Podcast

0:13
Welcome to the OPM podcast. OPM is the childhood body for
0:17
the project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm
0:20
the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host
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in the hot seat. Today with me Zany hair sign,
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the project management brains behind the fabulously
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successful, Commonwealth Games and Birmingham.
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This summer. The games were filled with color
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and energy, and were billed as the most sustainable, and
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diverse games ever. But what was it like to pull off
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this huge undertaking and will the city of Birmingham, be able
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to Capitalize on its Legacy. Annie, welcome.
0:46
I'm delighted to have you here today.
0:48
Brilliant. Thank you.
0:49
I'm a delighted to be, it's great to be online with you
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before we get into the games, I thought it'd be easier.
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If you could give us a bit of background on your career and
0:57
how you actually got into project management if you don't
0:59
mind. Yes, certainly.
1:02
So I originally studied electrical engineering at the
1:05
University of Cambridge and and as part of that, I spotted a
1:11
couple of guys that were working in the Army on a sponsor
1:13
Arrangement, which look quite appealing getting involved with.
1:17
So combining the engineering with sports and eventually
1:20
training. So I was lucky enough to get an
1:23
army cadetship, which then meant I spent six years with the re me
1:27
in the British Army and sort of traveling the world so to speak.
1:31
But on a number of number of different engagements and then,
1:35
I was, I did that for six years and at the end of that, really
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sort of thought. Okay, what do I want to go to
1:40
now and look to combining two? Technology management
1:45
consultancy with project management, and I ended up with
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a small consultancy that did exactly that based in Guildford.
1:52
And that was really the introduction to project
1:55
management for me. From there I stayed in Guilford
1:59
or with that company for nearly 15 years.
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We were taken over as part of that, moved back to Cambridge
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more into sort of consultancy and operations.
2:10
And then from there sort of took a sideways step into sports.
2:13
Project management. And from there eventually ended
2:17
up in Birmingham. Clothes, keep what you enjoy
2:21
about project management. What is it that kind of engages
2:25
you about it? I think for me it's I really
2:28
enjoy having that oversight from sort of start to finish or even
2:32
from the initial concept talking to a client understanding what
2:36
they want to do and then putting a project together and seeing it
2:39
through or leading it through to completion that.
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That for me, the entirety of that visibility is is
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fundamental, but at the same time I've been Been involved in
2:49
so many different projects, different sectors, different
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industry Industries. And that variety is absolutely
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fascinating and I could never have imagined when I left the
3:00
army that I would have been involved in the different
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projects. I have over the last 20 years.
3:06
Okay? So, and so, you're well, not
3:08
your current role. We'll talk about that later, but
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your role at Birmingham games. How did you get involved with
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that and why did you want that particular role?
3:20
So, prior to the game. So, in late 2019, I'd spent a
3:24
couple of years with British rowing looking after their
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technology projects. I saw the opportunity and
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Birmingham, come up as director of program, management and
3:34
integrated planning. And I simply put an application
3:37
in on spec, I had I had been involved in a number of games,
3:41
so probably the most significant one obviously being London.
3:45
I've been involved in hockey and Technical officiating there.
3:49
And so my interest and passion for these large multi-sport
3:53
games was just kind of was growing with each and every
3:56
game. So I've been to, I've been with
3:58
Glasgow Commonwealth Games there, I've been out the
4:01
Invictus games in Sydney and 2018 so the opportunity to
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combine my career which essentially is how I saw it with
4:10
my passion was something that I really I really couldn't miss
4:14
and so as I say I put the application in and then very
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quickly I found myself in Birmingham and late, twenty
4:22
twenty nineteen in the role as director taking over the program
4:27
management for the organizing committee.
4:29
Okay? So in that role, what were your
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what did you set out to achieve and looking back, do you feel as
4:34
though you did achieve them? So I think it initially this was
4:39
this was a big step into program management, but at the same
4:43
time, I was very passionate about being involved in the
4:45
games and a part of that was almost like this games was going
4:49
on. I wanted to be a part of it.
4:51
I want to be able to contribute to it and to bring my corporate
4:55
skills and sort of the experience from the different
4:58
environments that I've worked in.
5:01
I really felt very passionate about being able to do that with
5:04
with the team there in Birmingham.
5:06
And the role was, it was not only about sort of leading
5:09
program management within the organizing committee, which
5:13
starts out of it as a very small organization.
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So, when I joined, there are probably about 80 or 90 people
5:20
through to when we deliver the games close to 2,000.
5:24
So it is a very changing organization.
5:27
You have to keep a pace with that, but in parallel to it,
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it's also working with all the partners, all the stakeholders
5:33
that are involved in the games and as, as you, Well imagine
5:38
there are many people that are involved and even more people
5:41
that want to be involved. So had a key role in sort of
5:44
that stakeholder management as well and tracking the
5:48
development, the progress of a number of different programs
5:51
towards delivery earlier this year.
5:54
And I think Looking Back Now end of July was little bit frantic,
5:59
but by the end, well by the 10th of August, when we finished the
6:04
games, It was absolutely incredible.
6:07
What happened in Birmingham and I don't think we could have
6:10
helped have asked for anymore. We had hoped and in my mind, it,
6:14
I thought it would be great to create what we did in London and
6:17
recreate that in Birmingham. And I do genuinely think that we
6:22
achieve that ten years on almost to the day, which is absolutely
6:26
incredible. What are you most proud of?
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I simply just being a part of it, I think it it all comes
6:33
together against time and I spent two and a half years
6:38
planning thinking working through various different
6:40
scenarios, working with the team's thinking about some of
6:44
the big risks as part of program management.
6:47
What if this happens? What if that happens?
6:50
It was fair to say that some of those risks did materialize but
6:53
actually to come out the other side and then feel the we had
6:58
covered all of those risks and a It didn't materialize.
7:02
And we've got appropriate plans mitigation in place to deal with
7:08
them, should they have a risk? And that was a real sense.
7:11
Sense of achievement for me. Okay?
7:14
Me it's inevitable, I'm going to ask you what those risks were
7:17
low and also what were the biggest challenges that you
7:19
faced? And how did you overcome them?
7:23
Well to share a little secret on the inside when I arrived in
7:26
December, 2019, we had quite a long risk register already and
7:31
there was one on there that said how to deal with the event of a
7:35
pandemic. And I remember looking at that
7:36
and going okay, well, well, we're, you know, we're just park
7:39
that this was in December, 2019. It's fair to say that by
7:44
February 20 20, I was revisiting the risk by just giving out
7:48
exactly what had been written. Probably two years earlier.
7:53
In a very generic kind of way. And then obviously 3 March that
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became very real and I remember the day vividly because we we
8:03
said, we would do a test with the organizing committee around,
8:06
how we would handle working at home to.
8:08
We did that on the 16th of March, and we never went back
8:12
into the office until the pandemic was over.
8:14
So it was a real really quick learning curve and a quick
8:20
introduction to very rapid rapid risk.
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Judgment with regards to that. So that was, that was the
8:26
biggest impact on the program. And needless to say that roll
8:30
through all the way until the games, despite the fact that we
8:33
were back in the office, we were working.
8:35
But it was the effect on our suppliers on our volunteers on
8:39
the medical team. It was just so wide wide spread
8:43
that we could never let go of what's the impact of covid.
8:47
And it's fair to say that was not something that was on my
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radar in, in December, 2019, when I took the job, I can't
8:54
help but think that you're training in the military and as
8:58
an officer you must have drawn on that for this particular
9:02
scenario. Am I correct in thinking that
9:06
Yes. Hugely I think the Army and
9:09
certainly the training. I did it.
9:10
Sometimes he's very good at kind of putting you in stressful
9:12
situations and throwing a lot of things at you.
9:17
And so that was, it's that sort of Stress Management crisis
9:21
Management in that kind of environment was a great
9:25
training. And I think sort of building on
9:28
that you just then become or you build into your skill set, the
9:32
ability to prioritize things and they were What actually is
9:36
dealing with? And the Army has a particular
9:41
approach to leadership probably based on the idea of servant
9:45
leadership how much does that influence your leadership style?
9:50
Very much. So I remember, again, the
9:52
mozzarella salad was served to lie and that was the way that we
9:55
were, we were trained and sort of all the exercises we did
9:59
there. And I think that certainly is a
10:03
part of my leadership style in terms of really working really
10:08
closely with the team, almost sort of pulling up alongside
10:11
them understanding, what their challenges are, what their
10:14
issues are, and then helping them to work through those
10:18
challenges. I think one of the impressive
10:20
things about the games that was its diversity in sustainability.
10:25
Could you tell us a bit more about that?
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And it, and whether that was informed, by the, particularly
10:31
short amount of planning time. You had more Birmingham had for
10:36
the games because it did step in for Durbin.
10:38
So you had less time than usual. Yeah, I know that was a really
10:44
interesting challenge. So the read set out, I think we
10:46
had, they had the team had four and a half years from when it
10:49
was awarded, which has, as you rightly say, is much shorter
10:52
than we would normally normally plan for and then on top of
10:56
that. So we're playing a little bit of
10:58
catch-up but on top of that we then set some really ambitious
11:02
sustainability and diversity targets and also sort of
11:07
thinking about what does that mean for Birmingham.
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And I think burning was very unique in the makeup.
11:12
Of the city and the region that we had to, we had to build on
11:16
that. And so that's what the games had
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to be about. It had to be the games for
11:19
everyone. And so, as a part of that, we
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had, we set some really ambitious, strategic objectives,
11:26
which it is fair to say, through covid and through working
11:30
remotely, then became really challenging because that changed
11:33
the whole Dynamics around how we're preparing for the games
11:37
and how ultimately, we're going to deliver the games.
11:38
But I'm delighted to say that that Again looking back we
11:44
achieve those objectives and we really did ensure that
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Birmingham was the games for everyone and that everybody can
11:50
be involved and we hit those sustainability and those
11:53
diversity diversity targets. Did you use a particular program
12:00
management approach to the Commonwealth Games?
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I would say a very typically, it was probably a waterfall program
12:10
management approach, but at the same time as we get close to the
12:15
games, the whole, the whole dynamic of planning detail,
12:19
planning, and procurement, kind of changes as we move into our
12:22
Readiness and our operational phases.
12:25
And as a part of that, when you're going through that,
12:28
everything becomes a lot more agile.
12:29
And we have to the time lines, become a lot, a lot tighter, so
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we're turning around. And turning around deliverables,
12:36
turning around actions a lot quicker.
12:38
So I think it's fair to say. We see that transition certainly
12:41
from a maybe a very standard waterfall approach through to a
12:44
much more agile way of working. Really curious to find out what
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your Lessons Learned are from the project.
12:50
Not only in your kind of work capacity, but also personally,
12:54
what did you take from it? And what you bring to your
12:56
current role, I think the first thing for me in this this just
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goes back to the really complex sort of environment.
13:04
The complex number of stakeholders that were involved
13:07
is making sure that everybody understands their roles and
13:10
responsibilities. And in particular in a, we were
13:13
coming into a city where there's established relationships
13:16
established, established partners, and we will leave the
13:19
city as the organizing committee with those Partners as well.
13:23
And they've got very established ways of working and it's almost
13:26
unpicking those and making sure that That everybody understands.
13:30
What does this mean during games time?
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And I think if I had my time again, I would have spent more
13:36
time up front or when I arrived really unpicking that in more
13:41
detail and making sure that everybody understood what their
13:46
responsibilities would become games time.
13:48
I think the other thing for me and again this is part of a
13:51
complex project is the level of governance and assurance that
13:55
that we experienced was huge and I think it's that Asshole for
14:00
large large projects and large programs, but you have to be
14:03
really smart around how you manage that governance and that
14:06
surance and the audits the internal external audits the the
14:11
project reviews, everything that is being thrown at you.
14:14
So that so that actually, you put together a shed a schedule
14:17
of of what that governance. Looks like what those reviews
14:21
look like, so that you're not duplicating, you're not
14:23
burdening. The teams with asks in
14:28
triplicate Month in month out, and that we had to be really
14:32
smart about that around how we were reporting, and then also
14:35
how we were scheduling those, those reviews.
14:38
If you got any practical tips around those two things that
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you'd pass on to other program leaders out there.
14:46
Practical tips, I would suggest it's around roles and
14:48
responsibilities. You have to get people around
14:50
the table early and simply get things mapped out.
14:54
Again, start with an Excel spreadsheet or whatever that
14:56
looks like and start mapping it out with a raci matrix, best way
15:01
to start those discussions and then obviously that leads on to
15:04
more detailed discussions with regards to the governance.
15:08
We what we tried to do was almost get a year's plan ahead
15:14
in terms of just what's the governance?
15:15
What meetings, what board meetings were audits, what other
15:20
maybe government, reviews are taking place so building a year,
15:24
ahead, calendar, and then sequencing the governance.
15:30
So that we're not having to duplicate reporting in different
15:33
forms. So, actually, if we need
15:35
approval, or if we need decisions, made that we can
15:38
quickly work up through those governance chains.
15:43
Okay, brilliant. And I want to ask if he what you
15:47
enjoyed most about working on Boeing.
15:49
Did you get to see any of the sporting action?
15:51
Did you get seals, you'll spawn on stage, I did there.
15:56
I think there are so many favorite moments and I was very
16:00
lucky. And and certainly with my hockey
16:02
background, the CEO. Ian Reed was very generous in
16:06
suggesting that maybe I attended a few of the hockey sections and
16:10
did some hosting. So I was very lucky I saw Both
16:13
of the hockey finals and then also similarly in a, in a
16:17
hosting role I was at the opening and closing ceremonies.
16:22
So whilst we didn't know about Ossie, we knew that something
16:25
very exciting was coming and to see that materialized than that,
16:32
that be delivered in the way that it was just fantastic.
16:35
It was just incredible. Could you give us an insight
16:38
into what it was like to be in Birmingham during those weeks?
16:40
Because yeah, I watch it on TV and there seems to be such a
16:44
buzz around it so much energy, so much color.
16:47
What was it like to be in the city during that time?
16:50
And actually, let's talk about Legacy.
16:52
How can Birmingham capitalize on on the games?
16:57
Yeah, I'll talk about the excitement building.
16:59
It was just incredible. Obviously, I was in the city
17:02
every day and we had a daily countdown and we saw the City
17:07
coming to life. So all of the all of the are all
17:11
of the graphics went up on some of the buildings.
17:13
The, the building Centenary Square was going up the clip
17:19
that the game's clock which was counting down was attracting
17:22
attention as well. And so it was just incredible
17:24
seeing all of these things activate as the Queen's baton
17:27
relay came into the city. That was another opportunity for
17:31
the city to really come together and crowds to start building.
17:35
But then actually during Names. Absolutely phenomenal.
17:38
We had no idea what was going to happen in the city center.
17:42
I'd love to say that we did, but when the ball was brought into
17:46
Centenary Square again, somewhat of a surprise to me.
17:50
But could you explain what the Bull is for some listeners who?
17:53
Perhaps didn't see it? Sorry, so there, the ball which
17:56
was used in the opening ceremony, which was one of the
17:59
is, obviously the key symbols of Birmingham, the Birmingham Bull
18:05
and this Huge. I think it was about 10 meter,
18:08
high bull been constructed and used in the opening ceremony and
18:12
and was a key part of it. We naively thought or I naively
18:17
thought that might be the end of the bull at least for a few
18:19
days. We're going to have a little bit
18:20
of a rest perhaps, but what actually happened was overnight
18:25
after the opening ceremony, the bull was moved and there are
18:28
there are videos sharing the ball driving down through the
18:33
streets of Birmingham into the city center.
18:36
About 3:00 in the morning and then so 6:00 for the morning
18:41
when I walk through the square it was just incredible to see it
18:44
there. And I'd like to think that I was
18:46
probably one of the first people to see it but people then came
18:49
into the city centre in their thousands to see the ball and to
18:54
see the live site and to visit the shop.
18:57
But they were in the city centre of Birmingham.
19:00
What did the game Steve Birmingham the city and actually
19:03
the region of West Midlands I think, I mean, a huge, a huge
19:08
amount. We talked about the Legacy for a
19:10
number of years and and looked at various different
19:13
opportunities. So if we look at the different
19:15
programs, I mean not only have we refurbished Alexander
19:19
Stadium, which is now a well recognized International
19:23
Athletics venue for future meets.
19:26
We've also got a brand new Olympic swimming pool in a
19:30
residential area in sand. Well, the throne Paul's being,
19:35
In somebody's absolutely incredible and that in its
19:38
legacy mode will be a full Suite of fitness center available to
19:42
the public of Sandwell and the local community, with various
19:46
programs running to really promote health and well-being in
19:50
that region with in Birmingham. And that's just, that's a couple
19:54
of the capital projects. But in addition to that, there
19:56
are various Legacy programs that are still running around
19:59
engaging youth, engaging schools making sure that they understand
20:04
what the common Keynes was all about but then taking that
20:08
forward and taking that Legacy forward.
20:10
So making sure that they understand the benefits of
20:13
health and well-being, but they are also going to access ability
20:17
to new skills. They've got access to new jobs.
20:20
So there's been a real focus on how do we really engage the
20:25
youth community and create opportunities for them?
20:28
Whether they be in sport or whether they be in in jobs and
20:32
skills and really leaving those skills with them.
20:35
And that, that not only sort of that, Not only was organized by
20:39
the organizing committee, but all the contractors that were
20:42
involved in the games had various programs that were
20:45
running to really encourage and embellish that promotion of
20:50
skills and jobs. Okay.
20:53
Thanks, you talk very much about the specifics of the Legacy.
20:56
I'm wondering at a kind of Vega level, just around the
21:00
perception of Birmingham as a city, both nationally and and
21:04
internationally has has the game's changed.
21:07
That has it given more confidence to the West Midlands
21:12
to project itself in a different way?
21:15
Definitely. Yes, I think without question
21:19
Birmingham has transformed and and talking to contacts, in
21:23
Birmingham, city council, they are so proud of what's happened
21:28
in terms of their. They would always say that
21:30
Birmingham was probably quite shy.
21:32
We knew that they knew that Birmingham had had things to be
21:35
proud of, but it's had this opportunity to speak to the
21:39
nation, to speak to the world, to Showcase everything that's
21:41
going on. And and now very much the light
21:45
is Is shining on Birmingham and in addition to that, we there's
21:48
been sort of business and tourism programs running as well
21:51
as part of the games. So, looking at, how do we bring
21:54
more businesses into Birmingham? How do we promote, what's going
21:58
on in Birmingham to International businesses as
22:01
well? So that putting Birmingham on
22:04
the back has been absolutely fundamental part of the games
22:07
and I really do think that that we've taken significant strides
22:12
forward in terms of doing that. But what's made Birmingham
22:16
unique? As a host of Commonwealth Games,
22:19
and what do you think could be remembered for?
22:23
I think burning this certain unique in terms of the diversity
22:26
of the city and the region. And this was something that Sony
22:29
Commonwealth Games Federation picked up on when Birmingham was
22:33
being appointed. Because believe it or not, there
22:36
are probably representatives of the whole Commonwealth in
22:41
Birmingham, representative communities and making those
22:44
links. And fostering it has been a real
22:47
sort of pillar that we've been able to build on and really sort
22:51
of Help people to talk about the Commonwealth stories.
22:54
Talk about the history of the Commonwealth but also really
22:57
look forward around. How do we build on that
23:00
diversity and include all of those communities in everything
23:04
that's going on in Birmingham in the future?
23:08
It's clear, you've got a strong interest in sports, the road for
23:11
Cambridge. In you've been involved in
23:14
hockey what it sounds like for most of your life but I'd like
23:17
to ask you what has sport taught to you about working in teams.
23:21
What have you brought from that world into the world of program
23:24
management? I think, for me and I've
23:28
probably been involved in team sports in the main through
23:31
hockey and and Rowing. And I also did swimming but
23:34
that's maybe not team sports so much.
23:36
But just working in that environment, particularly in
23:39
rowing where when you were in an 8, if you don't get things in
23:44
sync with the rest of the crew, the boats going to go nowhere
23:48
and and it really is fundamental and that those kind of lessons,
23:51
but also then more, cerebrally how do you engage Age with the
23:56
team. How do you work as a team?
23:57
How do you bring the best of a team to an event to a
24:01
competition? And that equally applies in the
24:04
workplace. So looking at the team that I
24:07
had and again, everybody that was involved in games, probably
24:09
had some interest in sport, maybe not quite as much as me.
24:15
But really, you can really use that and build the team work in
24:21
a similar way and we had a number of sessions as part of
24:23
the organizing committee sort of looking at Team Dynamics,
24:27
looking at leadership. How do we bring that bring that
24:31
to the fore and what are the lessons learnt from sport?
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Allah, ask you Annie. If you have any practical tips
25:10
or pieces of advice, you've got the other project managers could
25:13
use in leading a team on managing a team.
25:17
What's worked for you particularly well, That's that's
25:21
a good question. I think in terms of sort of
25:23
leading the team is is being present, being engaging being
25:27
available to your team. You have to remember that all
25:30
your team members will be a different stages of their
25:33
journey of their of their experience in project
25:36
management. And this kind of then goes back
25:39
to getting to know your team getting to know them in the
25:41
workplace but also socially and understanding what makes them
25:46
tick. How do you get them involved?
25:48
How do you help them? How do you help them progress?
25:53
Because if the team is working together, the project will just
25:57
will work so much so much easy, more easily and it is, it's
26:03
around building, that's Energy. Building the energy in the team
26:07
that actually makes going to work to work on your project fun
26:11
and enjoyable and and people don't notice what they're doing
26:14
and I, you know, I'm in the game's world.
26:16
It's very easy because people are very passionate.
26:19
About delivering the games but it's then sort of taking though
26:23
transferring that into another environment and thinking okay.
26:26
How do we embolden the team to really work together and, and
26:30
really sort of synchronize and go forward?
26:34
I'm just wondering what the flip side is that, you know, when
26:37
you're dealing with a team, there's inevitably conflict
26:40
either within the team or with outside, stakeholders, have you
26:45
learned anything over the years that has proved helpful in
26:49
dealing with conflict in the right way and getting everyone
26:52
on board together? Yeah, absolutely time and time
26:57
again, no project will be without this and I think it is
27:01
very easy to put your head in the sand and hope it goes away.
27:05
But what you have that you have to be able to do is sit down and
27:09
have a conversation, understand what?
27:11
The conflict is, what is the issue and then work with the
27:16
individuals or work with the team, and that might mean a
27:18
number of different conversations but really sort of
27:22
making sure that people can then start.
27:24
Pulling in the same direction and sometimes that ultimately
27:27
does mean that you have to have some pretty difficult
27:29
conversations as well. But again, it's it's fundamental
27:34
to not shy away from those and Tackle them as early as
27:38
possible, because if you let them sit, the problem will only
27:43
get bigger. The conflict will only grow.
27:45
So you have to you have to nip them in the bud early.
27:48
And any advice on handling difficult conversations.
27:52
Again, it's don't be afraid of having the difficult
27:56
conversation. I've tried various techniques.
28:00
Some of work, some some haven't, what's worked?
28:03
It's easier said than done, right?
28:05
I mean, it's one of the hardest aspects of being a manager or a
28:07
leader. But what have you found works?
28:11
I think the key is that you have to be upfront and and I would
28:14
say don't beat around the bush but To getting getting the nuts
28:20
and bolts of where you want to go or what what needs to be
28:23
said. So that people understand
28:25
clearly what the situation is. And if there are decisions to be
28:29
made, they know what the landscape is and they can make
28:32
an informed decision. It is very easy to sort of hide
28:36
behind and and try and avoid using various words or putting
28:43
things in black and white and actually put it in
28:45
black-and-white early and people going to understand, Where they
28:49
where they stand? Okay, that's great.
28:53
He recently left your role at Birmingham which is always the
28:57
plan. Can you tell us a bit about the
28:59
role? You've just taken on what your
29:00
responsibilities are? What you think, the biggest
29:02
challenges will be and what you take from the Boeing and games
29:06
to this new role. Yeah, absolutely.
29:09
So I finished in Birmingham at the end of September, so that
29:13
was essentially the end of that games contract.
29:16
I'm now working for the Commonwealth Games Federation,
29:19
which is the overseeing body for all Commonwealth Games and that
29:24
includes the youth games, which has been rescheduled to next
29:28
year. So, he's games in Trinidad and
29:31
Tobago in 2023. I'm the Project Lead for the
29:34
Commonwealth Games, Federation and working with The new
29:39
organizing committee, which is it, which is located in Trinidad
29:42
and Tobago. So, the immediate challenge is,
29:45
how do I work with a team that is few thousand miles away?
29:49
And a few hours time difference, not having that sort of daily
29:55
eyes on perspective, around progress and and that will be
29:59
one of the biggest challenges over the next eight months as we
30:02
prepare for that. Okay, pretty.
30:05
And it just leads me to ask you for any career lessons that
30:11
you've thought about looking over the, your career, so far
30:15
that you would perhaps pass on to project managers, starting
30:20
out. Now, any secrets to your success
30:23
that you wished, you'd look new when you are first starting out.
30:30
Again, a good question, I would suggest.
30:34
So, When I, when I was younger, I was naturally quite shy, and I
30:38
think that that still stays with me, and I have to proactively
30:42
encourage myself to speak up to get my voice, heard to take the
30:47
opportunity to present. And I think it's again it's very
30:51
easy to sit in the background to be silent.
30:56
If you want to be noticed, if you want to progress, you have
30:58
to speak up. You have to be heard.
31:01
And that is maybe one of the key lessons to my Of and I like the
31:05
one that again certainly off the back of Birmingham is very close
31:08
to mind at the moment is just not to take things too seriously
31:12
and enjoy it and relax a little bit.
31:15
It's very easy in. In project management to get
31:19
tied up with reviews and governance and I talked about
31:21
that earlier but actually just relax a little bit and enjoy it
31:25
and enjoy the opportunity that you have with the project.
31:29
And my final, final question I promise is you're one of a kind
31:34
A few female leaders within program management within the
31:39
profession is, is that something that is impacted on your career?
31:44
And do you have any advice to women, younger, sort of female
31:49
professionals, who are planning their career or early on in
31:53
their career and you know, would appreciate some advice around
31:57
this. I think it's whether it's
32:00
impacted on me, but I've worked through a number of areas and
32:04
number of sectors so started off in engineering and then
32:07
electrical engineering which was very male dominant then worked
32:11
in the Army where the statistics were probably similar in terms
32:15
of the representation of women and then really sort of going
32:19
into a technology space. So I've spent a lot of time
32:23
working in a male-dominated environment and I'd like to
32:27
think that those environments have Prove significantly over
32:32
the last 25 years and the balance has changed, but in
32:38
terms of some aspiring for leadership positions.
32:41
Again, it goes back to what I said earlier, around needing to
32:44
speak up needing to be heard and establishing good relationships
32:51
across the teams that you're working with, and making sure
32:54
that people recognize you in the value that you're bringing this
32:58
to the team now. It would be my key word of
33:01
advice is just make sure that you are heard and playing
33:06
playing the role that you deserve to be playing within the
33:08
teams that you're working in but brilliant way to wrap up our
33:12
conversation. That's some really thoughtful.
33:14
Excellent advice thank you. And it just leaves me to say
33:18
thanks again for your time it's been brilliant to get a
33:20
behind-the-scenes, kind of view of something, such a public
33:24
event and just leaves me to say. Thank you and good luck in your
33:28
new role. Brilliant.
33:30
Thank you very much. Really enjoyed it and I thank
33:31
you. Thanks again, Tony for joining
33:36
us and to you for listening to this episode of the APM podcast.
33:40
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