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Sir Lockwood Smith: Former Associate Finance Minister on cuts to consultancy spending in the public service · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The government's ahead of schedule with public service job cuts.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: So their goal was to cut four hundred million dollars
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: in spending on consultants and contractors over two years, but
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Judith Colin says they're actually on track to count eight
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: hundred million in the same time frame. Double it, and
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: she was so happy. Yes, that's always a bit disturbing
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: when you see Judith's smile. So Lockwood Smith was the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Associate Minister of Finance and he joins us, Now, good
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: morning to you Lockwood Morning Andrew. This needed to be done,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: didn't it.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you wways feel sympathy for those whose
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: jobs are at risk. Candry, Let's be pretty clear about that.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: It's not a non easy thing for people. But the
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: massive increase in the public sector in New Zealand has
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: been eyewatering. I mean I served on a after I
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: finished his High Commissioner in the UK, I was asked
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: to serve on a commission reviewing the UK public sector
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  Speaker 2: and in one of our western countries, Who've got this
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: problem of a massive growth in the what people loosely
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: call the bureaucracy that's standing in the way of our
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: economic performance and creating sustainable jobs across the economy.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Why has it been a global phenomenon. I mean, we
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: see Elon Musk and does getting stuck into the United States,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Rachel Reeves, the Labor Chance of the Exchequer has said
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: she's going to cut fifteen percent of public servants. Why
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: did all countries go down this track?
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  Speaker 2: To give you feel Andrew for just the ridiculous increase.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: You know, when I was Minister of Education, admittedly that
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  Speaker 2: was a long time ago, I ran the entire tertiary system,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: including industry training, with thirteen officials. Today four hundred do
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: that job, and they just get in the way of
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the providers. You know, these providers out there working hard
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: to try and deliver education, have to handle all the
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: bureaucratic requirements of that huge staff increase. When I became Speaker,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I reduced the pudges of the Speaker's office by fifty percent.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Reduced by fifty percent. And I think most people to
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: say the Speaker's office probably ran you know, at least
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: as well, if not better. So look at that.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So can I just ask one last question. She's done
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  Speaker 1: well eight hundred million so far. Is there more that
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: she can cut?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not in a position about to comment on
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  Speaker 2: that all and I wouldn't recommend what's you know exactly
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: what's happening in the US right now, but we do
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: have to make sure. We've got a real problem with
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: productivity in this country. And you can partly see why,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: you know, you've got so much unproductive work going on,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: if you like, by well meaning, you know, good people
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: in the public sector, but just lack of focus on
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: what's really needed to deliver an effective public sector. And
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  Speaker 2: as I say, we're seeing it not just New Zealand
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  Speaker 2: but in other countries as well.
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  Speaker 1: So loud I thank you so much for your time
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: for getting up early for us. Today's a luckwood Smith,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: alies and gentlemen, former Speaker and Associate Minister of Finance.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: For more from early edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: to news Talks it'd be from five am weekdays, or
• 3:00
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