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199: Creating a Zero-Risk Customer Experience · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

• 0:01
  Hello, revolutionaries.
• 0:03
  Welcome back to another episode of the customer service revolution podcast.
• 0:09
  I am here with your host, John DiJulius, and I am Denise Thompson, managing partner of the DiJulius Group.
• 0:18
  How are you, John?
• 0:20
  I am doing fantastic.
• 0:22
  How are you?
• 0:23
  I'm doing great.
• 0:24
  I'm doing great.
• 0:25
  Thank you.
• 0:27
  I wanted to tell you a story.
• 0:30
  I recently got new glasses and are you familiar with Warby Parker?
• 0:37
  Well, this is one pair.
• 0:37
  I actually got two pair.
• 0:39
  So Warby Parker.
• 0:42
  Yeah, I use them.
• 0:44
  I think they're great.
• 0:45
  They have great service.
• 0:46
  So I got two pairs and the one pair I just did not like at all.
• 0:51
  And my own fault, I actually tried them on in the store, but when I received them at home, didn't like the color, didn't like a couple of things about them, took them back and you
• 1:01
  expect you would get some kind of flack and none whatsoever.
• 1:07
  Not only did they happily take them back and help me to select a new pair, but even said,
• 1:13
  We don't need the case or the cleaning cloth that came with it.
• 1:17
  Would you like to take that home?
• 1:19
  you know, made it easy as pie to do.
• 1:24
  And then I got my second pair that, you know, my replacement that came and something's not right.
• 1:31
  There's a, the field of vision at the bottom.
• 1:37
  And any other place I would be concerned about having to go back again, but you just know that.
• 1:43
  have a pattern of complaining.
• 1:46
  Right.
• 1:46
  Yeah, that's that's what I look like.
• 1:49
  I am the squeaky wheel.
• 1:51
  This is the one that's not happy with yeah but I know that it's going to be an easy transaction because They are easy to deal with so it's something I wanted to talk about
• 2:02
  today is being zero risk Being a company that You know people have no challenge doing business with they make it easy to do business with them
• 2:15
  Yeah, and you're, go ahead.
• 2:18
  I was gonna say, and it happens to be the topic of an upcoming live stream workshop that you are doing in June.
• 2:26
  Yeah, so zero risk is exactly what you described.
• 2:32
  To be a zero risk company, what it doesn't mean is that company never screws up or drops a ball.
• 2:39
  That's impossible.
• 2:41
  What a zero risk company does mean is that they probably screw up, drop the ball less than their competitors.
• 2:53
  But just as important,
• 2:55
  maybe more importantly is when they do drop the ball, they pick it up and make it right.
• 3:00
  And in your cases, know, and Amazon, it's not just about being easy to do business with, but it's when something goes wrong.
• 3:11
  you know, Amazon to me is zero risk.
• 3:15
  Nordstrom's is zero risk.
• 3:17
  Apple is zero risk.
• 3:19
  You know, I just, I know like with Nordstrom's, I don't have to worry if it's like,
• 3:24
  past 30 days or I can't find the receipts or you know like you said you know because in so many cases you think of all these arguments and what they're gonna down and you're gonna
• 3:35
  come back with this and then when they don't do that you're kind of like you know I want to fight but like Amazon I and this always happens is now it's just what I expect but one
• 3:47
  time I bought a digital viewer you know the picture frame
• 3:54
  where put digital thing.
• 3:56
  And I don't know why, but I bought it in August as a Christmas gift.
• 4:00
  I no idea why, I'm usually not that thing.
• 4:02
  So I never opened it until Christmas or right before Christmas.
• 4:05
  And now whoever it was for, I wanted to load pictures and it wouldn't go on.
• 4:12
  And I'm I'm screwed.
• 4:15
  It's December, I bought it in August, but I thought I would try just the same.
• 4:21
  And so...
• 4:22
  went to Amazon and they did say you have to deal with the third party.
• 4:27
  I'm like, now I'm really getting...
• 4:28
  Third party said, kind like what you said, they said, keep it.
• 4:36
  Maybe you can go, maybe it's a plug, you can go get it Radio Shack or whatever it is.
• 4:40
  We'll send you a replacement one.
• 4:42
  And I was blown away and made me trust Amazon because Amazon...
• 4:49
  is so strict with their vendors that their vendors have to keep their customers happy, otherwise Amazon will kick you off.
• 4:58
  But that's zero risk.
• 5:00
  And that's one of the elements is having protocols in place for when the ball is dropped or a customer is unhappy.
• 5:08
  Anticipate it.
• 5:10
  And so the best companies know where they're gonna drop the ball.
• 5:14
  They don't know if it's gonna be today at 10 or tomorrow at two, but they know.
• 5:18
  These are the four most common places we drop the ball.
• 5:20
  So let's create some systems that get it from 5 % to 2%.
• 5:26
  Huge victory.
• 5:27
  But, but, still going to happen 2 % of the time.
• 5:32
  So let's be prepared for when it does.
• 5:35
  That the 18-year-old hostess or the GM can handle and the customer isn't upset.
• 5:43
  So what does that look like being a company that knows where they dropped the ball?
• 5:49
  How did they figure that out?
• 5:51
  So, you know, it's from your research, it's from complaints, it's from all your service defects, it's, you know, what do companies complain about?
• 6:01
  And usually, it was funny, we did it for the hair salon, you know, 25 years ago.
• 6:10
  And at the same time, I was working with Price Waterhouse, consulting with them.
• 6:16
  And our four or five places we dropped the ball the most were the exact same.
• 6:21
  Hair salon, Price Waterhouse.
• 6:27
  In no particular order.
• 6:29
  First one was, let's say Price.
• 6:34
  And it was more of a communication of price.
• 6:38
  That on our menu, on the website, whatever it says, know, highlights, start at $150.
• 6:45
  But you have long hair, thick hair, you ask for, you know.
• 6:48
  a lot of different things and you get up and it's $260 and you're like, it's only 150, right?
• 6:57
  We didn't manage expectations.
• 6:58
  We didn't say based on the thickness of your hair, how long your hair is, what you're asking for, this is what that will be.
• 7:05
  It's gonna be about $260, giving that guest the option to say, hell no, or.
• 7:14
  what can I do to get it lower?
• 7:15
  We can not do this, this, this, and then doing that.
• 7:18
  So it's usually a miscommunication of price.
• 7:22
  Quality of work.
• 7:23
  You just don't like what you got, what you left with, what they did.
• 7:26
  All right, that's number two.
• 7:31
  Delay.
• 7:34
  You might have a three o'clock appointment at the doctor's office or we're expecting your financials.
• 7:43
  Tuesday at nine and you know got blown way past that right.
• 7:50
  Professionalism of an employee.
• 7:53
  They gave you an attitude.
• 7:55
  They were you know whatever how they made you feel.
• 7:59
  And I might be missing one but you know those I couldn't believe those were the same for a hair salon and the same for Price Waterhouse.
• 8:09
  So now once you know them
• 8:12
  Alright, what can we put into place that reduce the appointment mistake slash delay?
• 8:22
  Alright, so, you know, back in the day when we started, before we'd hang up and we had the software tell us, because you called up and you're talking about, you know, EY haircut
• 8:33
  with Sandy and I'm giving you all Sandy's availabilities and, you know, she has three o'clock on Thursday or six on Wednesday.
• 8:42
  And we talked about so many times that you hung up and you thought it was six o'clock on Thursday, right?
• 8:48
  So now before we hang up, all right, Denise, that's Thursday, February 1st with Sandy at the Solon location for a haircut at 6 p.m., right?
• 9:01
  And it's a little script that reduced the, wait, I thought you said, but it's still gonna happen.
• 9:11
  Right?
• 9:11
  If we can get it from, you know, if we make one percent of appointment mistakes a week, you know, we're pissing off 20 people if we are 99 % accurate.
• 9:25
  So now what do we have in place for when that client walks in and we don't have her down for the time she thinks, you know, now we have, you know, boom, if it's a minor
• 9:34
  inconvenience, like 10 minutes, or we can get, you know, don't let her know or thank her for her patience.
• 9:40
  If it's a major one, you gotta do major recovery.
• 9:45
  And that might be it's on us and you're getting something else on top of that because we have to ask you to come back tomorrow or wait two hours.
• 9:57
  Here's something that I have an issue with with companies that, you whether it's you're taking something back, you had to wait too long, whatever it might be.
• 10:07
  And this just happened to me with an app I was trying to get rid of.
• 10:14
  And I had to call and the person told me they could, whatever they told me they could do.
• 10:20
  I'm like, well, you're, they advertise themselves as,
• 10:28
  365 day return policy or something like that.
• 10:32
  Well, I could return the first part at full under that, but then that's all I can do.
• 10:40
  And so I asked, there someone else I can speak with?
• 10:43
  Well, let me put you on hold.
• 10:44
  So they put me on hold and then they come back and they say, well, I can do this.
• 10:49
  And I'm like, that's still not, it just wasn't right.
• 10:52
  And is there somebody I can speak with?
• 10:55
  And they put me on hold again and they kept coming back and it kept getting better and better and better until they finally gave me what I had originally asked for, which was
• 11:05
  frustrating.
• 11:06
  Right.
• 11:06
  Now that person could be a retention specialist who, you know, that's their job to try and get you to either stay or to not give you something back, which some companies are known
• 11:21
  to have, right?
• 11:22
  A cable company maybe.
• 11:25
  and all that employees incentives and pay is predicated on them not letting people quit.
• 11:38
  It's not the employee's fault.
• 11:40
  right, right.
• 11:41
  And I completely understand that.
• 11:42
  And I was almost laughing speaking with the person knowing that these things take place.
• 11:49
  But on the other side, our employees that are empowered and a lot of times employers are afraid to empower their employees to do whatever it takes to make a a client customer
• 12:02
  happy.
• 12:03
  How do you get to the point?
• 12:05
  where you can trust and empower your employees to take care of things that happen.
• 12:10
  Like you mentioned in the salon, right?
• 12:13
  Somebody has to wait a long time depending on how long it is, is how big, how do you train that to happen?
• 12:21
  So my philosophy I try to always say in my companies is you'll never get in trouble for something you do, you only get in trouble for something you don't.
• 12:30
  Meaning just take care of it.
• 12:33
  I don't want this to spiral, I don't want her to have to ask for the manager, contact me.
• 12:40
  That's not good.
• 12:42
  She or he's gonna be doing brand terrorism and every time they have to retell their story they get more angry and they remember that this happened actually one time before.
• 12:51
  You know, now, you know, they've told everyone and, you know, they are embellishing it every time they tell it.
• 12:58
  So just take care of it.
• 13:00
  I'd rather my employees be naive than paranoid and don't punish 98 % of the customers that you're afraid 2 % are gonna get taken advantage of.
• 13:10
  I'm okay with getting taken advantage of 2 % of the a time because when I get back from the 98 % that we just give no hassle, right?
• 13:18
  We'll make it right.
• 13:19
  We over-correct.
• 13:21
  We address it and we over correct.
• 13:24
  I just think that's all in the culture and training that you have to give your employees.
• 13:30
  And just because you train them once doesn't mean because that employee, you know, they're loyal to the company and they have been pre-programmed by their past jobs, not to let
• 13:44
  customers take advantage of them.
• 13:46
  And you know, and you gotta say, no, it's okay.
• 13:49
  It's okay.
• 13:50
  You know, I don't think they are.
• 13:53
  know, and it's not the employees' fault, but they still will have a knee-jerk reaction, a muscle memory to defend, to question.
• 14:04
  And so you have to constantly be teaching them, you you don't have to, you know, them the third degree.
• 14:09
  You don't have to make them prove anything.
• 14:12
  Now there is a catch net for, like if someone always isn't happy and that, but you know, I even like to talk about that, you know, because we,
• 14:20
  we make that one or two percent feel like it's 50%, because that's the only conversations we have.
• 14:27
  But it's about training, it's about really celebrating that, hey, Sally, the 18-year-old hostess, made the Platinum VIP client so happy when we screwed up her appointment and she
• 14:42
  gave her next one on us and a free pedicure.
• 14:46
  You're celebrating that.
• 14:48
  versus me, would have gotten fired for doing that at my last job.
• 14:51
  Well here you might get fired for, you know, if you didn't do that.
• 14:55
  But that's a mindset, that's a culture shift.
• 14:59
  You know, that's really hard and you're probably not gonna find enough employees that will have that in them.
• 15:08
  So you have to really constantly be helping change that.
• 15:13
  So how do you train it?
• 15:14
  Is it just advertising it regularly?
• 15:18
  Yeah, so first off, we train where we drop the ball the most, in kind of three ways.
• 15:27
  it's minor inconvenience, yeah, you don't have to give away the house if we just made you wait five minutes.
• 15:33
  We could just...
• 15:33
  you know, hey, thanks for your we really appreciate that.
• 15:38
  If it's major inconvenience, here's what you, you come up doing it, doing whatever you need to.
• 15:47
  So talk about where, because you're also training them on how to avoid and reduce these in the front end by doing those things.
• 15:56
  And then having, you know, how do you want every employee to do it?
• 16:00
  This goes back to employee roulette.
• 16:03
  Someone may bring a complaint to you and you handle it perfectly.
• 16:06
  They bring it to someone else and they, again, are defensive and questioning and prosecuting and they put lipstick on something that deserved a lot more.
• 16:24
  Different companies have different acronyms.
• 16:26
  I tell my employees to do the LEAST.
• 16:30
  LEAST stands for Listen.
• 16:32
  empathize, apologize, solve and thank.
• 16:35
  And each one has its own training, right?
• 16:37
  Listen, don't interrupt, don't defend, know, listen like you're wrong.
• 16:44
  Because again, you know, I could get defensive and say, yeah, listen like you're It's hard.
• 16:50
  It's hard.
• 16:51
  Listen like you're wrong.
• 16:53
  Don't defend, explore.
• 16:55
  Don't defend your ideas, explore new ones.
• 16:58
  Let them repeat themselves.
• 17:00
  even though you know where they're going, even though someone already told you, they might get it off their chest.
• 17:08
  Empathize with them and apologize.
• 17:12
  And apologize might not be that you're admitting it was your fault.
• 17:17
  I apologize for the miscommunication.
• 17:19
  I apologize for that this didn't go the way you or I had hoped.
• 17:26
  Solve.
• 17:28
  and make sure they know the resources and what they can do and thank.
• 17:33
  Thank you.
• 17:34
  I have an email signature, we probably all have email signatures, but I have an email signature for customer complaints because I wanna make sure I get it right.
• 17:46
  And I what it says about me that I need an email signature for people that complain, right?
• 17:50
  We get enough.
• 17:53
  But I just, wanna thank the person profusely because,
• 17:59
  Most of the time I don't tell a company when I'm unhappy.
• 18:02
  I just stop going.
• 18:05
  And I'm like, why don't I tell them?
• 18:06
  Because I don't think they care.
• 18:07
  Why don't I think they care?
• 18:08
  It's just the vibe, right?
• 18:10
  And I'd rather get home 15 minutes early than say, can I see your manager?
• 18:14
  Can I speak to your supervisor?
• 18:17
  And just know that that person thinks that I'm just trying to get something for free.
• 18:22
  I don't want to deal with that.
• 18:24
  I'm just never going come back.
• 18:26
  So then I start thinking, God, how often does that happen to me?
• 18:28
  in our businesses, probably all the time.
• 18:32
  So how can we advertise we care about your feedback?
• 18:38
  Did someone crush it for you today?
• 18:41
  Please tell us so we can celebrate that behavior and recognize them.
• 18:45
  Did we miss the mark?
• 18:46
  Please tell us so we can reduce this from happening again in the future.
• 18:51
  that kind of helps go with least and training them.
• 18:56
  on the listen, empathize, apologize, solve, and thank.
• 19:02
  And so that's where my thank comes in is my email is just, know, Denise, thank you so much for taking the time to share this with me.
• 19:10
  You could have easily not spent the time in sending me this email, calling me, whatever the interaction was, and not just, know, but you gave me the opportunity to not only make
• 19:20
  it right with you, but hopefully reduce this from happening to anyone again in the future.
• 19:25
  And then if there's a, please accept this gift card, please accept, whatever that, that's gonna be a little bit more customized.
• 19:32
  But back to an earlier point you said, Starbucks, when we were working with them 10, 15 years ago, I remember they had come out with, and I think they still have them, if your
• 19:49
  order was screwed up or a debacle or you made the wait too long, they would,
• 19:54
  give you your order, you pay, but they give you a card that says, sorry that your experience wasn't what you or we expected, your next beverage is on us.
• 20:04
  I love that.
• 20:05
  Like I just think that's the coolest thing.
• 20:07
  Versus just taking someone's money and leaving and thinking that they even know that that was like the worst experience.
• 20:13
  This is saying we know this wasn't right.
• 20:17
  And this is what we want to do to make it right, right?
• 20:19
  So I love that.
• 20:20
  But being, you know, getting to work with Starbucks at their corporate, their fear was that their employees, the baristas would give them out to, if you sneezed, everyone would
• 20:31
  get one, you know?
• 20:32
  Well, five years later, their frustration was that their employees weren't giving them out enough, right?
• 20:40
  That you would comment, you know, at lunch and ordered, you know, had a 12-drink order for everyone in your office.
• 20:48
  And you pay, then you leave.
• 20:50
  And then you come back 20 minutes later and say, you you missed one, one was not this, one was that.
• 20:57
  here it is, and no charge.
• 20:59
  Like, you know, they're doing something great.
• 21:00
  Well, you've already paid for it.
• 21:02
  Well, she missed her lunch.
• 21:05
  She spent her lunch driving back and forth, and probably having coworkers mad at her.
• 21:09
  You should have given her three there.
• 21:11
  And so, you know, most of the time, you'll see that you really have to...
• 21:16
  encourage and celebrate and push employees to help customers, then they're going to give away the farm.
• 21:28
  You brought up something with the email thanking them for bringing this to your attention so it doesn't happen to someone else in the future.
• 21:38
  What do do at that point to make sure it doesn't happen to someone else in the future?
• 21:44
  Well, that's having your customer, client, guest challenges that get documented and that we can review and find that, you know, or we're seeing, you know, is it a one-off that was
• 21:57
  just such a bizarre thing or is there, you know, a pattern here happening and why?
• 22:04
  Is it a system thing?
• 22:06
  Is it a training thing?
• 22:08
  Is it, you know, an awareness that, you know, and then being able to address
• 22:13
  and hopefully make that go away or get greatly reduced.
• 22:21
  Do we look for whose fault is it?
• 22:24
  Who do we blame it on?
• 22:27
  Not necessarily the who is the origin of the fault.
• 22:31
  So it could be the person on tech support's fault, lack of a better word.
• 22:41
  But that's because they were never trained.
• 22:44
  know, and didn't she go through, well no, when we hired her, we were so short staffed, we couldn't put her through the training, we had to throw her on...
• 22:52
  you know, on the phones, because, you and then, you know, we always said we were going to put her through the zero risk training, you know, and it just never happened, right?
• 22:59
  Or, you know, we have trained her on that or that.
• 23:04
  It's usually a coaching, you know, opportunity, or it could be assistance.
• 23:08
  It could be a computer, it could be a technology issue.
• 23:10
  could, you know, be any one of those things that, you know, your complaint could be, you know, I'm on hold forever.
• 23:16
  It could be staffing, you know, or, you know, it takes, you know, seven minutes.
• 23:22
  to schedule an appointment.
• 23:24
  That could be a technology issue.
• 23:27
  by tracking your customer complaints and putting them into those buckets, you can find out and then execute on what system needs to be improved, whether it's people training or
• 23:40
  system.
• 23:42
  And then is there a follow up once someone has complained, once you've sent a letter, once they've been given something to rectify the situation, a gift card?
• 23:56
  Yeah, mean, like, so that email that I use is usually the follow-up because I hopefully have already talked to them and as promised, here is what I said I'd send you and that's
• 24:09
  the follow-up.
• 24:10
  If it's major, we better, you know, be following up and major, know, listen, it could be, you know, a $200,000 product service and we got to make sure and check on them as are
• 24:25
  things going better.
• 24:27
  since, you know, a few weeks ago when we talked.
• 24:31
  And they could say, absolutely, you know, it seems to be resolved or honestly, no, you know, they're still not getting back to me.
• 24:40
  You know, they're still ghosting me and all those things.
• 24:44
  So service recovery starts with anticipating and goes all the way through recovery.
• 24:54
  Yeah, to 100 % happy, which goes to the service recovery paradox.
• 25:01
  is scientific evidence that if you expect to, you're going to a restaurant, a dentist's office, whatever business you're dealing with, you have expectations, not unrealistic
• 25:12
  expectations, just, oh, this is gonna be a nice dinner, or I should get in and out of there in 45 minutes and get my teeth cleaned, whatever the thing, and you expect it.
• 25:21
  And if it happens like that,
• 25:24
  You're not blown away.
• 25:27
  You're not more loyal.
• 25:32
  I don't think not being disappointed makes us loyal.
• 25:39
  But it doesn't mean you're gonna go to them again.
• 25:43
  May or may not.
• 25:45
  But if someone opens, if you meet a dentist, if someone opens a restaurant, you might jump at the chance or someone gives you a gift card.
• 25:54
  You might jump at the chance for that.
• 25:58
  The service recovery paradox says that, yeah, if you have those expectations and they're met, you won't be, your expectations of lifetime value are not any higher.
• 26:10
  If someone drops the ball, like your Warby Parker, like my Amazon story, and make it right, you're 10 times more loyal in lifetime value and spend more.
• 26:23
  And so I always say, you know, the best customer loyalty program we could do is screw up first, right?
• 26:29
  Because of the potential.
• 26:31
  So I think, you know, we have to look at screwing up as in, I don't like it, but it is an opportunity to be a hero to someone.
• 26:39
  Because their expectations are that they're gonna fight and you're like, no, no, no, no.
• 26:48
  And over deliver.
• 26:52
  So you heard that here, folks.
• 26:54
  but your next one's free.
• 26:55
  it again.
• 26:56
  I said, so you heard that here folks.
• 26:59
  Next time you screw up at work, something happens, explain that John DiJulius taught you that this is how you're going to retain and have loyal clients.
• 27:08
  Yes, as long as you do the second part.
• 27:11
  the recovery.
• 27:14
  I know you're going to get into a lot more of this in the upcoming workshop in June, so I won't have you go through all of it today.
• 27:28
  Yeah, I love Zero Risk.
• 27:30
  It's one of my favorite workshops that we do and helping people figure out from how not to say no when you can't say yes.
• 27:46
  What are your most common areas that customers put you in a position that you can't say yes to?
• 27:52
  Well, how can you, what are your answers that, know, if it's not a no.
• 27:58
  but you can help get to a yes, give them options, give them that.
• 28:04
  Different exercises like that, what are the stupid questions you get asked that aren't stupid to the customer, but may be stupid to you?
• 28:16
  Like how long is a one hour massage?
• 28:18
  We get that in the salon.
• 28:20
  I don't know, maybe 60 minutes?
• 28:23
  Well, what they're really asking is,
• 28:27
  Can I make it to my son's tee ball game tonight?
• 28:30
  And quite frankly, we want them there 15 minutes before to get changed in a robe and then their massage is from 5 p.m.
• 28:40
  to 6 p.m.
• 28:41
  But 90 % of our guests will want to take a shower after.
• 28:46
  So while we'd only block off an hour, that's a good 90 minutes time, not counting drive.
• 28:55
  for someone and that's what they're really asking is, know, can I get home to my, can I make it to my next appointment?
• 29:03
  And so teaching your team members what is really being asked, you know, instead of what they're literally saying.
• 29:15
  Thank you, John.
• 29:17
  And we'll look forward to hearing more about this on June 9th.
• 29:21
  There will be a link to that in the show notes.
• 29:25
  And that's a wrap for today.
• 29:27
  Thanks, Denise.