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Brave Enough to Belong · Kaleidoscope - Perspectives Beyond The Surface

• 0:06
  Good evening. Welcome to Kaleidoscope. My name
• 0:09
  is Ruby Ray Liu. And today I am joined by founder
• 0:15
  of SoulFam Hostel, Chase King, a great hostel
• 0:21
  in Cape Town that I had the privilege of staying
• 0:23
  at a few months ago, and my co -host, Luigi.
• 0:27
  This is Kaleidoscope. perspectives beyond the
• 0:31
  surface. I am what happens when you practice
• 0:37
  touch typing too much on the keyboard and stumble
• 0:41
  onto some websites about podcasting. Chase. That's
• 0:47
  it. Finished. I'm finished. Yeah. I'm not sure
• 0:52
  how there's to connect. Okay. I don't know if
• 0:56
  my intro is going to be as clever as yours, but
• 0:59
  what I will say is that I'm really excited to
• 1:02
  be here and thank you for inviting me to Kaleidoscope.
• 1:06
  So a bit about me. So as you mentioned, I'm the
• 1:08
  founder of SoulFam Hostel and it's the first
• 1:11
  LGBTQ plus inclusive hostel in Africa. And it's
• 1:14
  something that's very near and dear to my heart.
• 1:16
  And I created this space because I wanted to,
• 1:21
  you know, create a space that was based on chosen
• 1:24
  family and inclusive and makes people feel seen
• 1:28
  and welcome. And so I feel like I get to achieve
• 1:31
  that every day and I connect with the most amazing
• 1:34
  people from all over the world. And I really
• 1:36
  feel proud to have created a safe space in Cape
• 1:40
  Town. So thank you for having me. You definitely
• 1:44
  did achieve that for sure. Thank you for that
• 1:47
  lovely introduction. Yeah, that was a really
• 1:50
  good intro. Well. Hello, I'm Luigi porn futurist
• 1:55
  me Ruby discussed this title before the show
• 1:59
  and She declares she says now I Swear, it's something
• 2:05
  that's real, but everyone but but according to
• 2:08
  the internet. It's not So Ruby says it's some
• 2:11
  weird Mandela effect, but I swear to God porn
• 2:13
  futurism is real. Whatever it is I'm just trying
• 2:17
  to sound smart academic Please explain because
• 2:22
  Okay, wait, let's give chase it an opportunity
• 2:24
  based on what you've heard so far chase What
• 2:27
  do you think porn futurism is? Yeah, I'm trying
• 2:32
  to wrap my head around it. I Don't quite understand
• 2:38
  what I had It sounds really smart doesn't it?
• 2:44
  Well, I said it has nothing to do with porn But
• 2:48
  I really I thought I thought I could just defer
• 2:52
  to the internet for the explanation. No such
• 2:55
  thing. Futurism, though, was a movement in like,
• 3:00
  I don't know, maybe the 60s? No, not that far
• 3:03
  back. Further back, sorry. Like in the early
• 3:06
  1900s, futurism was the movement. But I swear,
• 3:08
  within that movement, one artist said he was
• 3:12
  a porn futurist. Or maybe I read it somewhere.
• 3:15
  And it's just so archaic and so cool. And so
• 3:20
  academic the internet can't even find it not
• 3:23
  even chat GPT could tell me what porn futurism
• 3:26
  is So it's about art It's about like it sounds
• 3:34
  like Sounds really hokey. Like everything you'd
• 3:37
  think it is is like just like just going into
• 3:42
  the future like Nice sound really silly It's
• 3:47
  an avant -garde movement And it's about, like,
• 3:52
  just going for it, you know? Hating everything
• 3:55
  old. That's it. Okay. You know, screw traditions.
• 4:01
  I want porn in the future. Everything is about
• 4:04
  for me. I want sex with robots. That's what porn
• 4:09
  future is. Okay. Have you ever heard of it? Anything
• 4:15
  like this, Jay? Never now, but it sounds really
• 4:18
  interesting now. I'm starting a movement. Futurism
• 4:23
  is real though. Futurism is real. I don't know
• 4:26
  if there's anyone in particular that said porn
• 4:30
  futurism. I have a question then for everybody.
• 4:34
  Part of the quick fire round that we have. If
• 4:37
  you have only 10 seconds to respond. If we start
• 4:42
  with Luigi, we'll go to Chase and then finish
• 4:45
  with me. If you had a art exhibition, what would
• 4:50
  you call it? Ten seconds. You have ten seconds.
• 4:55
  Luigi, you're first. Oh, I'm first. I thought
• 4:59
  you were first. Well, then I'd call it porn futurism.
• 5:03
  I'd call it sex with robots. Sex with robots.
• 5:07
  What about you, Chase? It would just be a ripoff
• 5:09
  of... What's that guy's name? Is it Peter Nagel
• 5:12
  or Patrick Nagel, that artist from the 70s? who
• 5:16
  made all those futuristic, sexy robots. Dude,
• 5:19
  just be ripped off with that. That's what it
• 5:22
  is. That's it. Can't be any more creative than
• 5:26
  that. Not in 10 seconds. My brain can't function.
• 5:31
  What about you, Jay? I'm curious. I think for
• 5:33
  me, I would go with something that's, you know,
• 5:38
  probably just more straightforward and simple.
• 5:40
  I call it queer joy, because that's the art in
• 5:42
  my hostel already, is it represents... There
• 5:45
  you go. queer joy, queer identity, so the guests
• 5:49
  can see themselves in the art when they come
• 5:51
  and stay here and they feel represented and seen.
• 5:54
  And it's a way for me to show that I see you,
• 5:58
  I empathize with you, I welcome you. So that's
• 6:02
  the kind of goal of the art in the hostel currently.
• 6:05
  I would call mine lipstick silhouettes. And I
• 6:08
  would just go around putting lipstick on all
• 6:11
  sorts of people and taking like really sensual
• 6:14
  photos of their lips. and printing them out.
• 6:17
  And then it will be like an exploration of identity
• 6:20
  through lipstick. So the art would be like pictures
• 6:25
  of their lips with lipsticks? With lipstick on
• 6:28
  them? Exactly. Yeah. Sometimes it will be like
• 6:32
  bad lips or yeah. That's actually a really good
• 6:35
  idea. I won't be surprised if someone somewhere
• 6:37
  has already done it. But if not. Maybe. Ruby,
• 6:41
  get on that. Just make it happen. Sure. Chase,
• 6:44
  do you have a quickfire question for us before
• 6:46
  we dive into the more meaty stuff? Quickfire
• 6:49
  question. Hmm. So it's funny, actually, we do
• 6:55
  a really cool event every Wednesday called Q
• 6:58
  &A, and I wrote the questions myself. And so
• 7:03
  one of the questions that I find that's always
• 7:05
  interesting is if you were a cent, What would
• 7:14
  I smell when I walk by you? Love it. No, that's
• 7:21
  a great question, because I know what I want
• 7:23
  to smell. I get a lot of abstract answers to
• 7:25
  this question, so it's very interesting what
• 7:28
  people say. What's the weirdest answer you've
• 7:31
  gotten? I think something food -related, like...
• 7:37
  Breakfast or something like that. How is this?
• 7:40
  Like that's not where I was going, but great.
• 7:47
  Baked beans and ketchup. Yeah, it could be. Yeah.
• 7:53
  Pretty strange. Spaghetti and meatballs. That's
• 7:56
  not what I want. I don't want to smell like that.
• 7:59
  No, if, is it what you see? Hey, Italian vibe.
• 8:06
  Right. Now, but okay, is it about what they want
• 8:10
  to smell like or what they think they'd smell
• 8:12
  like? I think that they answer more so in terms
• 8:17
  of what they want people to smell like so what
• 8:21
  they want to give off So yeah, I can I can I
• 8:26
  can talk about my favorite scent I've ever worn
• 8:29
  and that I cannot recapture And it was some lotion
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  that I bought from some shop in New York a long,
• 8:39
  long time ago. Because in another life, I was
• 8:42
  selling natural beauty products. And one of the
• 8:48
  scents was of wormwood. And it was the most amazing
• 8:54
  scent to me. And I loved it so much. And they
• 8:59
  discontinued it. And to this day. Like I still
• 9:03
  want that scent and like if I ever found it That's
• 9:05
  all I would ever want to smell like that one
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  particular scent of warm wood. So like absent
• 9:09
  is The other like that's what absence made from
• 9:12
  warm wood. So it's got this I don't know how
• 9:14
  to describe this smell Nice, so if anyone's ever
• 9:17
  smelled it, they know It's kind of what? What
• 9:21
  emotion what emotion would I feel? like smelling
• 9:25
  Absent or warm wood like what would I feel when
• 9:28
  I smell that? It's a good question. I can't speak
• 9:31
  for other people, but when I wore it, I just
• 9:33
  felt attractive. The scent makes me attractive.
• 9:37
  I felt like this scent makes me attractive. Makes
• 9:39
  me, you know, seem clean and manly. But it wasn't
• 9:44
  one of those overbearing, like musky man smells.
• 9:47
  Like men often wear perfume that's like musk.
• 9:50
  And like musk, I think, is too strong. I hate
• 9:52
  it. So, like I really like, I feel like men...
• 9:56
  on the topic of scents. Men don't have a lot
• 9:59
  of scents that are like oriented towards like
• 10:03
  fruit and spices like women's and I find those
• 10:10
  scents are a lot more pleasant and smell a lot
• 10:13
  more clean. So like why can't a man, but like
• 10:15
  when a man has to smell, he's got to smell like
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  really heavy, like again musk or like woody.
• 10:21
  But the, the absence smell, it was like that,
• 10:23
  but not so much. So, I mean, I would rather smell
• 10:26
  like, you know, eucalyptus and like lemons and
• 10:30
  stuff and oranges and lavender and like jasmine.
• 10:35
  That's another thing. You sound like a yeti sub
• 10:38
  commercial. Do you remember those? Yeah, but
• 10:41
  I know it. They still sell it. Like when I go
• 10:43
  back home in the summer and I'm in the grocery
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  store, those Yeti soap bars are still there.
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  Every kind of soap maker makes the same sense.
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  Like mint, eucalyptus, you know, whatever else.
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  So like I guess I kind of defer to mint and eucalyptus
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  if I can. Like those are the only kind of light
• 11:00
  scents left for men. But I wish you two could
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  smell that. I tend to go to like the stores.
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  Okay, so in... And maybe Chase knows this too.
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  So there are stores like Marshall's. Do you know
• 11:14
  what Marshall's is? Yeah. Big store that does
• 11:19
  fast fashion, whatever. Everything's sold there.
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  So makeup, whatever. And so I go to the section
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  with like the makeup and the body creams for
• 11:28
  like the women and I look at their bars and they
• 11:29
  have like, you know. vanilla orange and I just
• 11:33
  smelled it and I'm like, yes, I want to wash
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  in this. I don't want to wash in like the manly
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  musky soap bars. Fair. My scent, my scent would
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  be like orange zest with cinnamon and crushed
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  vanilla with just like a hint of freshly cut
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  pine. Wow, that's so specific. They're like,
• 12:00
  he's just sitting like, the pine's really nice.
• 12:04
  Yeah. I could talk about scents forever. Now
• 12:07
  I'm just, before today, before I came home, I
• 12:10
  went to a coffee shop to get beans and I wanted
• 12:13
  to get more espresso beans. And then I saw like
• 12:15
  the espresso beans were there. This is espresso.
• 12:18
  And I'm like, I know I need this cause my machine
• 12:20
  is an espresso machine. So I got to get the beans,
• 12:22
  but it said like plum, like sugar plum and. smoked
• 12:27
  vanilla. And I was just thinking like, well,
• 12:29
  if anybody knows what a sugar plum is, it's not
• 12:31
  really a fruit. It's like hard candy. There's
• 12:35
  no scent there. And then the other one was like
• 12:37
  Christmas blend, where it was like, it said spice
• 12:40
  chocolate. And I was like, yeah. But then it
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  said, like, I don't know, like pine needles.
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  And I was like, that's it. That's the one. Like
• 12:49
  even if it's not espresso, well, it's going through
• 12:52
  my espresso machine. I might hate it, but those
• 12:54
  scents. are what sold me. It's gonna be good,
• 12:58
  yeah. It's gonna be fine. I like pine because
• 13:02
  it makes me feel like it's got that, like...
• 13:06
  The scents I described are fresh and they have
• 13:09
  a homey, like, cottage feel. And that's what
• 13:12
  I like. No, I'm gonna sound really like a bumpkin,
• 13:17
  but do they have pines in South Africa? Yeah,
• 13:21
  of course. I know I don't know what this like
• 13:23
  I think pines. I just think of like the Americas
• 13:25
  Sorry, I'll be back Prove we got a delivery Probably
• 13:32
  they don't they bear they don't really when you
• 13:35
  request something they might take your request
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  Otherwise, they're just gonna like bang on your
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  door And then say come and get it or they don't
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  listen. They're just so rushed to deliver yeah,
• 13:47
  so it's so funny feeling funny how you both answered
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  because You guys both answered kind of more literal
• 13:54
  in terms of like an actual scent, but oftentimes
• 13:58
  the responses I get are, I want them to smell
• 14:01
  confidence, or I want them to smell to peel,
• 14:04
  or I want them to smell warmth, you know, like
• 14:08
  more abstract things. Yeah. Well, that's why
• 14:11
  I asked, you know, why people wanted like actual
• 14:14
  scents they wanted to smell like, or what they
• 14:17
  want them to smell. For sure. How do you, but
• 14:20
  how do you smell those, like what does confidence
• 14:22
  smell like? It's something you see. I don't know.
• 14:25
  Walk, walk by me, Luigi, and you'll smell it.
• 14:31
  Pheromones sweat. Yeah. I mean, there really
• 14:35
  is a lot of science behind that, you know, like
• 14:37
  pheromones, like you're attracted to a person's
• 14:40
  pheromones and it's really fascinating in terms
• 14:42
  of just like attraction, you know, like there's
• 14:45
  a whole science behind it. Right. Yeah, and I
• 14:49
  think that's the other thing too perfume can
• 14:52
  kind of like skew that Let's say attraction because
• 14:57
  because if it is all pheromones do the pheromones
• 15:00
  come through, you know shielding them With perfume
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  or covering them with perfume and then is that
• 15:06
  like an honest? Assessment or is that a kind
• 15:09
  of like seduction or manipulation? Yeah, and
• 15:13
  that's the funny thing is I feel like the joke
• 15:15
  is on us because we already have natural pheromones
• 15:18
  that attract a mate and So we're actually cutting
• 15:22
  up our natural gift to attract the right person
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  and so but I think we've all been conditioned
• 15:28
  to think that you know These scents make us more
• 15:32
  attractive, but really our natural scent is the
• 15:34
  most attractive. Yeah That's a really good point
• 15:37
  I'm not gonna bathe anymore. I've decided Oh
• 15:41
  my god, no. I wouldn't recommend that. I can
• 15:45
  get away with it. You have a naturally nice scent
• 15:50
  when you don't bathe. I always wonder, I always
• 15:54
  wonder, like, do I smell to people? We all have
• 15:57
  our own smells. But, you know, I'm always wondering,
• 16:00
  am I smelly today? What do people think? You
• 16:04
  smell good. Thanks. Thanks, Ruby. I try not to
• 16:09
  smell people. Well, to your mate, you smell irresistible.
• 16:14
  But to your non -mate, your non -soulmate, you
• 16:17
  smell smelly. Yeah, you could look at it like
• 16:21
  that. Like, you know, you could write poems for
• 16:24
  a person that is attracted to you and they'll
• 16:26
  love the poem. And the person that isn't, they'll
• 16:28
  call the cops. There you go, that's all the context.
• 16:36
  That's funny. All right, here we go. Do you have
• 16:40
  a quick -fire question for us? If I did, I forgot
• 16:44
  it. It was just, we just dived into so many interesting
• 16:47
  things. Okay. No, I got to think of one. No idea.
• 16:52
  No, but this scent thing was a good warm -up.
• 16:56
  Fair enough. Glad you enjoyed the question. I
• 16:59
  mean, I could keep talking about it. Yeah, it
• 17:01
  was excellent. Ruby, do you have one? Now you're
• 17:02
  going to have to come back, because I want to
• 17:04
  know every single question you've written down
• 17:06
  for Wednesday. Yeah, there's so many and they're
• 17:10
  really like meant to be just like not normal
• 17:13
  questions just to make people have fun with it
• 17:16
  and be playful and You know, the discussion doesn't
• 17:19
  have to be so serious. And so that's kind of
• 17:21
  the goal Yeah, one of my biggest regrets this
• 17:27
  last time when I went to South Africa, I don't
• 17:30
  regret things right? It's not something it's
• 17:33
  not how I live my life. It's not a mantra I follow
• 17:36
  but I wish I had stayed at SoulFam Hostel longer
• 17:40
  in Cape Town. Yeah, that would have been lovely,
• 17:43
  honestly. And what's great about SoulFam now
• 17:46
  is it's sort of transitioned into a community
• 17:49
  space now. So now, oftentimes, what ends up happening
• 17:52
  is because we're so full, its previous guests
• 17:56
  will ask to come just to hang out, you know?
• 18:00
  And so, kind of my way of just... keeping the
• 18:04
  doors open, even for people who can't stay as
• 18:07
  long and still want to be part of the vibe. Yeah.
• 18:10
  Do you think the guests come to hang out just
• 18:12
  because the place is just so, so amazing? They
• 18:15
  can't afford it. Yeah. That's what I mean. You
• 18:18
  say people come back. Like, I don't want to stay
• 18:21
  the night. I just really like the place. Do you
• 18:24
  sell coffee there? You should just turn it into
• 18:25
  so many things. There must be a coffee shop in
• 18:28
  it. No, there isn't I think honestly what it
• 18:31
  is is they want to stay but because we're sold
• 18:34
  out The next best thing is to just come and hang
• 18:36
  out with the fam but I think it's because they
• 18:39
  honestly really feel connected to the people
• 18:41
  here and so You know when you're a queer traveler
• 18:45
  and you're a solo traveler and you're looking
• 18:47
  for community and you don't you want to just
• 18:50
  have to go to the bars and clubs or use the apps.
• 18:53
  Sometimes it's nice just to go to a space that
• 18:55
  you know is going to be accepting and open and
• 18:58
  you're going to have people who like truly value
• 19:01
  and want to connect with you. So I think that's
• 19:03
  kind of what it's become for people. I was telling
• 19:07
  Luigi before I came on one of the like I was
• 19:10
  blown away searching on on Airbnb for a place
• 19:14
  to stay and I typed in like queer, LGBTQ, and
• 19:20
  suddenly there's this hostile that like unabashedly
• 19:24
  just goes, yes, pro, safe space, chosen family.
• 19:30
  And it was like a no brainer. It made me feel
• 19:35
  so much relief. And then going there and the
• 19:39
  whole vibe was just so welcoming. And Luigi,
• 19:44
  there's like this huge. a horseshoe kitchen and
• 19:49
  it was like one point, I think it was like 12,
• 19:52
  30 a .m. in the morning and all of us were just
• 19:57
  standing there. I was, and just having a chat.
• 20:01
  It was amazing. So I think it represents to me
• 20:06
  what hostels, all hostels want to be. And that's
• 20:09
  awesome. That's beautiful. Thank you for that.
• 20:11
  Yeah, it sounds, it sounds like - Yeah, that's
• 20:14
  my review. I mean, yeah, it sounds great. Right.
• 20:21
  And yeah, I ignorantly said to Ruby like, Oh,
• 20:24
  aren't all hostiles by default? Aren't all places
• 20:27
  by default LGBTQ, you know, like wouldn't they
• 20:32
  just allow them anyway? Why would it be an issue?
• 20:35
  That's my bad cisgender male brain asking these
• 20:40
  questions. No, I think, no, you know what? I
• 20:42
  don't think it's that. I think it's an ally brain
• 20:45
  because because to people who are allies, they
• 20:49
  just don't, it doesn't make sense. Like the exclusion
• 20:53
  doesn't make sense. So. Yeah. And I think, I
• 20:58
  think also too, I think hostiles like by default
• 21:02
  have a diversity policy, meaning that they tolerate.
• 21:06
  people from different backgrounds, but they don't
• 21:08
  necessarily go out of their way to make them
• 21:11
  feel welcome and that they belong. And I think
• 21:13
  that's the difference between diversity and inclusion.
• 21:16
  Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, most
• 21:19
  hostels are diverse, but they're not inclusive.
• 21:22
  And so I think... They think that by just simply
• 21:25
  saying that we're LGBTQ friendly, that that makes
• 21:28
  them inclusive. But no, like actually, you know,
• 21:32
  taking time to understand the queer community
• 21:34
  and our needs and taking steps to make us feel
• 21:36
  welcome and creating events that allow people
• 21:38
  to connect, that's inclusion. And so that's kind
• 21:41
  of what we practice here at SoulFam. For sure.
• 21:46
  And I think that's a really good segue into...
• 21:49
  what Kaleidoscope is meant to be, perspectives
• 21:52
  beyond the surface of what we think or see. And
• 21:57
  I would like to invite either one of you to share
• 22:00
  the first perspective. I know Luigi likes to
• 22:03
  go last. Chase, would you like, do you have,
• 22:06
  I have a lot of questions for you, but I'm wondering,
• 22:09
  do you have a perspective that you would like
• 22:11
  to share on Kaleidoscope or would you like me
• 22:14
  to lead? I'm happy for you to lead. Okay. I'll
• 22:17
  start it off. This is the first time in my new
• 22:23
  studio. It's still being unpacked. I've recently
• 22:26
  moved and one of the things that has changed
• 22:29
  for me in this move is realizing that sometimes
• 22:35
  we, and it's crazy that like this made me realize
• 22:39
  it, that sometimes we let things hold us back
• 22:42
  because of what we think we are okay with. and
• 22:47
  people don't go for the thing that they really
• 22:51
  want because they think that they are okay. I
• 22:53
  thought I was okay with my previous apartment
• 22:57
  and it was right next to this main road. The
• 23:00
  move was a disaster. It did not go as planned.
• 23:04
  But now in here, even when everything was a mess
• 23:08
  and before anything was packed out, I felt a
• 23:12
  sense of PTSD from not hearing constant traffic
• 23:17
  noise. And I've been sleeping better, but while
• 23:22
  you were there, my brain just shut it out. So
• 23:25
  that's my perspective. Awareness of your surroundings
• 23:30
  and breaking the Plato's cave, so to speak, of
• 23:36
  exploring other surroundings and going, hey,
• 23:39
  this is better. And then not doing that for yourself
• 23:43
  is a mistake. Always go for what you need. I
• 23:46
  don't know. Always take risks. Yeah. Like push
• 23:53
  yourself to grow. But this wasn't a risk, right?
• 23:54
  Like I didn't take any risks. I just avoided.
• 23:58
  You wanted to change. Yeah. I don't know what
• 24:01
  I did. Yeah. Well, you needed to move and you
• 24:04
  wanted to move. But sometimes we're so comfortable
• 24:07
  or you could say, I'll say this for the sake
• 24:10
  of argument, happy in our misery that. You know
• 24:14
  change is really really tough and stressful and
• 24:17
  overwhelming So even if our lives are bad, this
• 24:20
  is what I hear and I mean, I'm sure I'm probably
• 24:23
  one of these people even if your conditions are
• 24:25
  bad, they're familiar and That's why it's so
• 24:29
  difficult to change because maybe what's out
• 24:31
  there it could be better it but it could be worse
• 24:34
  and Maybe that's why people don't want to take
• 24:37
  the risk. But I think it's more just they're
• 24:38
  just so comfortable with you know, what's familiar.
• 24:44
  You know, they say people are creatures of habit.
• 24:47
  So that's why it's so difficult to change. I
• 24:50
  mean, there's just so much knowledge on this
• 24:53
  subject, but I find it interesting that you were
• 24:57
  affected by the lack of traffic. Maybe it became
• 25:01
  like a kind of white noise for you. I was telling
• 25:03
  someone today that when I wake up in the morning,
• 25:08
  like I remember my last apartment, it was just
• 25:11
  dead quiet. And I loved waking up in the morning
• 25:14
  to just silence. And now, when I came here, I
• 25:16
  was dreading all the traffic. And when I wake
• 25:18
  up in the morning, I can hear the tram. And it's
• 25:23
  this like hum. But that's like white noise now
• 25:26
  that I look forward to in the morning. So, yeah,
• 25:31
  we freak ourselves out. But then, when the change
• 25:35
  happens, it was interesting how we adapt and
• 25:38
  maybe it's not as bad as we. I think a tram is
• 25:42
  more predictable, though. A tram's noise is more
• 25:45
  predictable and kind of soothing. Yeah, well,
• 25:49
  yeah, absolutely. That's for sure. But traffic,
• 25:53
  just like what? What about you, Chase? Like,
• 25:56
  I'm not sure exactly if I may be so bold. Like,
• 26:00
  I remember you telling me a story about getting
• 26:04
  kind of stuck in Cape Town. and then making the
• 26:08
  choice to move and start this awesome hostel.
• 26:15
  What was that like for you? Yeah, no, it's interesting
• 26:21
  because I think I, and this kind of ties into
• 26:25
  what you were saying earlier about like not going
• 26:27
  after what you want. So I think, you know, I
• 26:32
  knew that I wanted to be in hospitality probably
• 26:35
  two decades ago. But I think what held me back
• 26:38
  was this, like, lack of confidence and, like,
• 26:41
  fear of failure. And I think that that becomes
• 26:44
  sort of stifling for a lot of people in terms
• 26:47
  of just going after their dreams, trying to pursue
• 26:50
  what makes them happy. And so, so I think for
• 26:53
  me, last year, I just made the decision to just
• 26:56
  get out of my own way and just stop making excuses
• 27:00
  for not doing what I know I love to do and not
• 27:04
  living my purpose. And, you know, when you find
• 27:08
  your purpose, you're gonna feel it in your bones,
• 27:10
  you're gonna feel it in your soul that this is
• 27:11
  what you're meant to do. I think now that I've,
• 27:15
  you know, finally made the decision to go on
• 27:18
  this journey and to go for it knowing that there's
• 27:21
  very few spaces like this that I can even speak
• 27:24
  to someone else about in terms of like, well,
• 27:26
  how was your journey? How did you create a space
• 27:29
  like this? You know, I kind of had to just sort
• 27:31
  of stay in my lane and just... do what I felt
• 27:35
  like queer community wanted and what would sort
• 27:38
  of benefit them. And I just followed my heart
• 27:40
  and my intuition and my gut. And it's a very
• 27:43
  liberating experience when you take the risk,
• 27:47
  you take the leap of faith, and you just go for
• 27:50
  it. And you don't worry about the outcome. You
• 27:54
  just stay present and stay passionate and curious.
• 28:00
  Um, so for me, it's, this year has probably been
• 28:03
  the most, um, I guess, revelatory year for me
• 28:08
  in terms of just my resilience and my ability
• 28:12
  to just, you know, take huge risk. So, um, yeah,
• 28:19
  so I think, um, I really sort of reflect and
• 28:23
  think about like how the world would be if people
• 28:26
  just got out of their own way and just did. the
• 28:30
  things that their hearts were telling them to
• 28:32
  do. I think that people would feel much more
• 28:36
  fulfilled and find a much deeper sense of happiness
• 28:39
  and purpose in their lives. Yeah. Can I ask a
• 28:45
  question? Ruby, can I ask a question? This might
• 28:48
  sound, I don't know, this might sound silly.
• 28:51
  You might think that's a dumb question, but so
• 28:55
  why South Africa? Were you just passing through?
• 28:59
  No, so I actually discovered South Africa 15
• 29:02
  years ago. I studied abroad here when I was a
• 29:05
  junior in college. And so it was the first country
• 29:08
  I went to outside of the states and it just,
• 29:12
  it made a huge impact on me. And so that's kind
• 29:15
  of what started this whole journey was that sort
• 29:18
  of moment in my college experience. And then,
• 29:22
  and then like I said, it took, it took up until
• 29:25
  now, for me to finally execute a dream that I
• 29:28
  had many, many years ago. Wow. I didn't expect
• 29:33
  such a well -thought -out decision for the place.
• 29:41
  Because for me, listen, I didn't even know South
• 29:45
  Africa was a place until I started living and
• 29:47
  working in China and interacting with South Africans.
• 29:50
  That's how inexperienced I am, but from what...
• 29:53
  I've learned about it from Ruby, it is, it's
• 29:56
  just like a really, in terms of LGBTQ +, it's
• 30:00
  a really tough place. But again, I could be wrong.
• 30:07
  I mean - It depends on where you are for sure.
• 30:10
  Yeah. And so to do what you're doing, like super
• 30:14
  brave, super admirable, I think. So like, I'm
• 30:18
  just wondering, were you, so, and your hostel
• 30:21
  is the first of its kind. So was that an idea
• 30:25
  that just came to you or were there other hostels
• 30:28
  in other parts of the world that did that? Again,
• 30:32
  I'm not very well traveled. I don't know. Yeah,
• 30:37
  so I think it was a combination of things. I
• 30:39
  think I lived as a digital nomad for seven years
• 30:41
  and so I was constantly, you know, moving from
• 30:45
  country to country. two months here, three months
• 30:48
  there, two months there. And what I realized
• 30:50
  during that whole journey is how difficult it
• 30:54
  was to find community as a queer traveler. And
• 30:57
  so for me, it kind of came from my lived experience.
• 31:01
  I'm like, okay, if I'm experiencing this as a
• 31:04
  queer traveler, I'm sure there's other travelers
• 31:06
  as well who find it very difficult to meet people
• 31:11
  and to connect beyond the kind of typical venues
• 31:15
  that we're you know, having to subscribe to,
• 31:18
  which is, you know, bars and apps and things
• 31:20
  of that nature. So that was part of it. The other
• 31:24
  part was that I did discover a town very near
• 31:28
  and near to my heart in Mexico called Zipolite.
• 31:31
  And it's a very interesting place. It's very,
• 31:34
  very queer, very bohemian, nudist kind of vibes.
• 31:38
  And I remember staying in a hostel or like a
• 31:41
  kind of a guest house hostel kind of hybrid place.
• 31:45
  And it was for queer. It was for queer people.
• 31:49
  And it was the first time that I had experienced
• 31:53
  being in an environment that felt like chosen
• 31:56
  family. Like I felt like I effortlessly made
• 32:00
  friends in that environment. I met people who
• 32:02
  were like -minded and shared my sort of energy
• 32:05
  and vibe. And so that was kind of one of my initial
• 32:09
  inspirations, was just experiencing that kind
• 32:12
  of environment. I was like, oh, wow, I would
• 32:14
  love to recreate this type of environment in
• 32:17
  K -Town. So, it was very cool. What was the scariest
• 32:22
  part for you? Like making that decision, going
• 32:25
  from, it's LA, right? Well, I moved to Washington
• 32:28
  DC, but I'm originally from Los Angeles. Yeah.
• 32:32
  Ah, okay. Okay, so... the scariest part about
• 32:36
  going to Cape Town, because I have to admit,
• 32:41
  from the perspective of a South African, and
• 32:45
  that's changed drastically in the past couple
• 32:48
  of years, to the point of another story that
• 32:51
  I would like to share in a little bit. But I
• 32:55
  would never have been able to conceive of someone
• 32:59
  coming from a country that is more financially
• 33:04
  stable and developed to move to South Africa.
• 33:08
  Now, I can definitely see why and how. But what
• 33:13
  was that for you? Yeah, no, it's a good question.
• 33:18
  I think for me, that early experience study abroad
• 33:21
  in Cape Town, what it taught me was that it's
• 33:25
  important to provide, provide spaces like especially
• 33:30
  for queer people, where there's lacking. I think
• 33:33
  US and Europe has tons of infrastructure for
• 33:36
  queer people. There's tons of hotels, bars, you
• 33:40
  name it, organizations, meetups. And so for me,
• 33:43
  I've always been drawn to places that didn't
• 33:45
  have resources or that lack infrastructure. Because
• 33:49
  then it's like you're building, you're creating,
• 33:52
  you're expanding. you're not just adding to like
• 33:55
  the noise that's already there. And so for me,
• 33:58
  I think it's just more exciting of a journey
• 34:00
  to challenge yourself and to, you know, to create
• 34:04
  something that, you know, doesn't exist in a
• 34:07
  particular location rather than, you know, just
• 34:11
  being another bar or another hotel or another
• 34:13
  whatever in a queer friendly place, you know,
• 34:16
  so. So that's kind of the thing. Yeah, I think
• 34:21
  it's a great feeling to blaze trails. For sure.
• 34:25
  I could see why you do it. Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:28
  Kaleidoscope has a... Has a what? Go ahead, Rui.
• 34:31
  Has a five -year plan, Chase. Does it? Yeah,
• 34:36
  I would like for Kaleidoscope to become part
• 34:39
  of your weekly process at SoulFam because in
• 34:43
  the next five years, we want to open a bar in
• 34:46
  Cape Town for comedy events and art and live
• 34:51
  podcast recordings here. That'd be amazing. That's
• 34:55
  so cool. To do that, I've registered it. It's
• 35:01
  going to be a brand house, but we're starting
• 35:03
  with Ember Jewelry and it's going to be selling
• 35:05
  queer jewelry in South Africa and growing from
• 35:10
  there. That's beautiful. I love that you're going
• 35:14
  on that journey. It's not for the faint at heart,
• 35:20
  you know, is what I always tell, you know, people
• 35:23
  who go on this entrepreneurial journey because
• 35:26
  it's just filled with so many ups and downs and
• 35:29
  surprises. But at the end of the day, it's what's
• 35:33
  exciting, you know, to experience that. Chase,
• 35:38
  ever have any, like, was there ever any people
• 35:44
  who antagonized you when you decided to do this?
• 35:48
  You know, everyone's already supportive. Yeah.
• 35:51
  Oh, yeah. No, I get it all the time, actually.
• 35:54
  So, it's interesting. So, a story that I don't
• 35:57
  often tell people is that when I first started
• 36:01
  SoulFam, I actually found a location for the
• 36:04
  hostel in a neighborhood in Cape Town called
• 36:07
  Boca, which I'm sure Ray or Ruby knows that it's
• 36:12
  quite conservative. It's actually the Muslim
• 36:15
  neighborhood in Cape Town. And... Wow. I naively
• 36:18
  thought, well, of course, you know, even though
• 36:21
  it's a conservative area, I thought of Cape Town
• 36:24
  as this, you know, oasis of progression in Africa.
• 36:27
  And so I didn't even think much of it. And so
• 36:30
  when I found the property and I signed the lease
• 36:33
  and I decided to, you know, open the hostel,
• 36:36
  I actually got contacted by an influencer, local
• 36:39
  influencer in Cape Town. And we created a post
• 36:42
  on social media. And because he has such a huge
• 36:45
  following, the postman viral, and it got back
• 36:49
  to the local community that I was creating this
• 36:51
  LGBTQ plus inclusive hostel. And there was a
• 36:54
  huge backlash against it. Basically, just to
• 36:57
  make a long story short, the landlords canceled
• 37:00
  my lease and forced me out of the property. The
• 37:03
  landlord also got death threats and just all
• 37:05
  kinds of hate for even allowing me to occupy
• 37:10
  that space. And it was just very clear from the
• 37:13
  local community that they did not want us there.
• 37:17
  So I decided to take the high road and, you know,
• 37:21
  I kind of bowed out gracefully and it actually
• 37:23
  worked out in the end because I felt the location
• 37:25
  that we have now is a hundred times better and
• 37:29
  way more safe, way more inclusive. But yeah,
• 37:34
  but also when I post on social media, I get all
• 37:36
  kinds of, you know, comments about, you know,
• 37:39
  ignorant comments about this being a sex house
• 37:42
  or this being a brothel, because people automatically
• 37:46
  assume anything queer is sex related. But like
• 37:52
  I said, I think it doesn't really phase me. I
• 37:57
  know that people speak from their own ignorance,
• 38:02
  and so I don't take it personal. And to be in
• 38:06
  this kind of business, you have to have tough
• 38:08
  skins. You just let people be where they are.
• 38:15
  So yeah, that was kind of my initial experience.
• 38:18
  But now it's a lot, I would say, not a lot of
• 38:20
  hate really. It's such an odd thing for me because
• 38:25
  I am unabashedly a sexual being. But at the same
• 38:32
  time, I'm also just a human and queer and also
• 38:36
  a teacher. So all of these things can combine
• 38:39
  and be easily compartmentalized. Adults are humans,
• 38:47
  are sexual beings, right? And this is something
• 38:50
  that we all do and for us to have frank discussions.
• 38:57
  don't really like to mix the term normalized
• 39:01
  into this because it sets people that are ignorant
• 39:04
  and phobic off on a tangent of kids are being
• 39:10
  evolved or whatever. And it's just wild to me
• 39:14
  that it always goes there. It always goes to
• 39:17
  the worst kind of imaginative. BS about what
• 39:24
  might happen behind something that closed doors
• 39:27
  where people have no idea. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 39:32
  And I think it just reveals where people are
• 39:34
  at just mentally in terms of what they think
• 39:37
  about our community, in terms of, you know, preconceived
• 39:42
  notions they have about queer people and our
• 39:45
  culture. And I mean, just the other day, there
• 39:48
  was a guy who came by the hostel and I didn't
• 39:52
  think anything of it. People come by the hostel
• 39:54
  all the time asking for tours because they're
• 39:56
  curious, you know, because we're a new hostel.
• 39:58
  And it's turned out that his whole intention
• 40:02
  was to find a hookup at my hostel. He was married
• 40:06
  to a woman and then he was trying to find someone
• 40:09
  here that he could, you know, have some fun with.
• 40:14
  So again, I think it's just people's reptilian
• 40:17
  brain when it comes to queer. Yeah, it always
• 40:22
  goes to like the lowest common denominator And
• 40:25
  they never sort of acknowledge or realize that
• 40:28
  what we're doing is so much bigger than that
• 40:30
  Not that there's anything wrong with sex or any
• 40:32
  of that But it's just it's just not the foundation
• 40:36
  of soul fam, and it's not the most important
• 40:38
  thing about our mission Right, of course Yeah,
• 40:43
  I listen I don't I hate I hate to pry but for
• 40:46
  the sake of entertainment. How did that man or
• 40:50
  person find out like how did he come in and then
• 40:53
  realize oh that doesn't happen here. I mean I
• 40:56
  think it's good he had that experience because
• 40:57
  then if anything he might tell someone like the
• 41:02
  world might know that isn't what happens at that
• 41:05
  place and it's better than someone never coming
• 41:09
  and and not having the experience I think but
• 41:14
  anyway. Yeah. How did he figure it out? He could
• 41:18
  not have explicitly asked. Well, I guess he could
• 41:21
  have, but I can't imagine he did. Yeah, so he
• 41:25
  actually was pretty explicit. And so what ended
• 41:28
  up happening, yeah, is... So it turned out, yeah,
• 41:33
  like, so he wanted a tour. And so, of course,
• 41:35
  I asked one of my staff, like, do you mind just
• 41:37
  kind of showing him around? And then I guess
• 41:40
  he pulled him... one of my staff into a private
• 41:43
  conversation and asked him point blank, like,
• 41:46
  how do you feel about giving me oral right now?
• 41:50
  You know? Okay. Or even saying like, you know,
• 41:53
  I find you attractive. Like, you know, can we
• 41:56
  can we do something? You know, like it was that
• 41:59
  explicit and that direct. And so I think seeing
• 42:02
  the shock on my staff's face, I think quickly
• 42:06
  made him understand that he was definitely in
• 42:09
  the wrong place and that we're not about that
• 42:12
  here. And so, but sometimes, like I said, you
• 42:15
  know, you'd be surprised at the things that people
• 42:18
  say or think or how they behave when they don't
• 42:21
  have an understanding of, you know, the queer
• 42:24
  community. Absolutely. I think it also speaks
• 42:27
  to like, it's symptomatic of a greater... problem
• 42:32
  too is this kind of, I don't know, puritanism,
• 42:36
  prudishness, like people aren't free to be themselves.
• 42:40
  So they have to go and seek out these kinds of
• 42:43
  trysts. Whereas if we lived in a world where
• 42:46
  everyone was truly tolerant, it wouldn't be so
• 42:49
  much of an issue to be understood. You know,
• 42:50
  it is, it's human nature. Yeah. That's also interesting
• 42:56
  for me for someone like that, like this, this
• 42:59
  married man who obviously doesn't want to leave
• 43:03
  his wife, but wants to experience whatever, you
• 43:08
  know, sex with a different person. This is a
• 43:13
  man who is clearly or probably polyamorous. There's
• 43:24
  a world in which he doesn't have to leave his
• 43:27
  wife He can be completely honest and open with
• 43:29
  her the way that he should be and he can do what
• 43:32
  he wants Right, but he can't be himself. So he
• 43:37
  does this and it's so much more toxic Yeah Absolutely.
• 43:43
  Yeah, and I think I think what you're both what
• 43:45
  you both are saying is so important because it's
• 43:48
  like you're seeing in real time societal conditioning
• 43:51
  and how it creates sort of deviant behaviors
• 43:54
  in people. Because they don't feel free to be
• 43:57
  who they are, it creates this sort of extreme
• 43:59
  where now they're creating situations that make
• 44:02
  other people feel uncomfortable because they
• 44:05
  don't feel comfortable with themselves. And the
• 44:08
  reality is, like you said, Ruby, is that there
• 44:12
  is a world where you can be who you are. If you're
• 44:15
  a polyamorous person or you're attracted to both
• 44:18
  genders, you can do that. But societal conditioning
• 44:22
  tells him that he can't and that he has to, you
• 44:26
  know, attain this facade of being this straight
• 44:30
  cisgender male married to a woman because society
• 44:34
  will reject him and he won't be able to live
• 44:38
  openly the way that he wants to. So for me, it
• 44:40
  was like seeing that scene yesterday, yeah, it
• 44:45
  made me quite sad that in 2025, we still have
• 44:48
  people... who are living a double life and not
• 44:51
  living their truth out of fear of what society
• 44:55
  will think. Yeah. And maybe that's part of why
• 44:59
  the LGBTQ community gets conflated with... Okay,
• 45:04
  there is the problem of sex work from a space
• 45:09
  of desperation or the best way to make money
• 45:14
  safely or whatever exists. But we as a community
• 45:20
  also get conflated with these sexual tropes and
• 45:24
  misconceptions because we are free to be ourselves
• 45:28
  and because other people are not. I've read a
• 45:31
  few times that people who say being gay or being
• 45:35
  trans or being whatever is a choice is because
• 45:37
  they are choosing to be straight. Like, it's
• 45:40
  not a choice. You are what you are, right? Absolutely.
• 45:45
  I totally agree. Yeah, and I think Yeah, I think
• 45:48
  you're onto something there because I feel like
• 45:52
  part of the hate or the aggression that we get
• 45:55
  is because they resent us for the fact that we're
• 45:58
  so liberated when it comes to our sexuality.
• 46:01
  And they wish that they had that same liberation
• 46:04
  within them rather than having to, you know,
• 46:08
  in their minds do the thing that everyone expects
• 46:11
  them to do. But because we don't have those same
• 46:14
  boundaries, it's like we're now being labeled
• 46:18
  the enemy, you know, because they, we get to
• 46:22
  live the life that they wish that they could,
• 46:24
  which is unapologetically ourselves. They want
• 46:27
  that. They want that. You're right. They're,
• 46:28
  well, I can only assume, but it's like they're
• 46:30
  denying themselves something and it's that bravery
• 46:33
  that they envy. So the next best thing is to
• 46:36
  stop you from doing it so they can say to themselves
• 46:39
  or assure themselves they were right all along.
• 46:43
  And then they don't have to. They don't have
• 46:45
  to. like fix themselves or take care and be accountable.
• 46:51
  And then there's a factor of we're talking about
• 46:54
  they, they, they. Of course, not all non -queer
• 46:57
  people are they, like allies are definitely,
• 47:01
  even though LGBTQIA doesn't explicitly include
• 47:06
  allies, they are part of the community, right?
• 47:08
  Because they are the ones who are being themselves
• 47:12
  and they're just straight and that's fine. Yeah.
• 47:18
  Absolutely. No, I totally agree. And that was
• 47:20
  one of the surprises with Soul Fam was the overwhelming
• 47:25
  number of guests that are non -queer that stay
• 47:28
  here. You know, I did not expect when I, you
• 47:33
  know, because I was, as you know, I'm very explicit
• 47:35
  in my branding and marketing that this is an
• 47:38
  LGBTQ plus inclusive space. So I thought automatically
• 47:42
  that that would just turn off. non -clear people.
• 47:46
  But in actuality, it's the opposite is true,
• 47:50
  that people actually like being a part of a space
• 47:53
  that is inclusive and celebrates diversity and
• 47:57
  doesn't judge people based on how they identify.
• 48:00
  So that was, so it shows that society is craving
• 48:04
  this, like they have an appetite for this type
• 48:07
  of space, but I think because it's not as ubiquitous
• 48:11
  quite yet, it still is something that's very
• 48:14
  niche and not as common. But I think people subconsciously
• 48:20
  want to be a part of a society that is inclusive
• 48:22
  and doesn't discriminate or separate people.
• 48:26
  Yeah. I think you're not giving yourself enough
• 48:29
  credit, Chase. I think people also come because
• 48:32
  you've made... Like a really dope hostile because
• 48:35
  I went online and I looked at the website and
• 48:37
  I thought damn this place looks nice Better than
• 48:41
  my apartment Like again like what Ruby says is
• 48:47
  like if you're taller and you're tolerant So
• 48:49
  it's like doesn't even register like who cares
• 48:51
  if someone's queer So like you don't care if
• 48:55
  there's like I mean I can go to a hotel and there's
• 48:56
  people that are queer I don't know So, you know
• 48:59
  when I see a nice place and I can afford it.
• 49:02
  Oh, I'm there Yeah. And I think funny enough,
• 49:05
  Luigi, I really feel like you just highlighted
• 49:08
  a lot of people's mindsets when they book. It
• 49:11
  really is not that deep. It's just very much
• 49:14
  like, oh, nice place. I can afford it. Let's
• 49:17
  go for it. Like they're probably not even reading
• 49:19
  into the fact like the LGBTQ plus mission. None
• 49:22
  of that. Like that doesn't even register. And
• 49:24
  that's why some people come here, not even realizing
• 49:27
  they booked a queer inclusive space. Oh yeah.
• 49:30
  Yeah. Definitely could be. It's just weird to
• 49:35
  think, you know, there are people who think there's
• 49:39
  just some queer person lurking in the shadows
• 49:41
  ready to, like, hit on them so they don't want
• 49:43
  to go somewhere. It's just so silly to me. Like,
• 49:47
  we have no soul control. Like, we just have to,
• 49:50
  like... Yeah, I'm ready. Let's go. ...be fucking
• 49:53
  physically attractive. Yeah, and, like, that
• 49:56
  cliché, like, I mean, there's so much, like...
• 50:00
  So much in art and it sounds bad to say that
• 50:03
  but there's just so much in art and when I say
• 50:06
  art I mean like literature and whatever else
• 50:09
  of this trope of the queer person being bad and
• 50:13
  a big part of that is to like a lot of that has
• 50:17
  origins I think in like American cinema from
• 50:20
  the past things like that. I mean, you know,
• 50:22
  we can think of the more popular things like
• 50:26
  Science of the Lambs Buffalo Bill is a really
• 50:29
  popular one where like, you know, the queer person
• 50:31
  is evil and things like that. And there was another
• 50:34
  one, there's another Michael Caine movie from
• 50:36
  a long time ago where he was like a therapist,
• 50:38
  but a cross dresser and he stalked a woman, things
• 50:42
  like this. So there's all that kind of bad stuff,
• 50:44
  which is just that people see that and think
• 50:47
  it's a window into reality is just so wrong headed
• 50:51
  to me. It's an easy, easy avenue into other ship,
• 50:57
  like the other. A concept of the other. What
• 51:00
  did you say in the previous one? The dark forest
• 51:03
  hypothesis. Similar to that. Oh, right. Yeah.
• 51:08
  At least there's some kind of cross over there.
• 51:12
  A dark, queer forest. No, it does share the same
• 51:16
  elements, right? You're in this place. Sounds
• 51:17
  like a fun place, though. A lot of fairy lighting.
• 51:24
  You're gonna go in there, all you're gonna hear
• 51:26
  is like cats purring and there's gonna be like
• 51:29
  some, there's gonna be some fireplace somewhere
• 51:32
  where everybody's just chatting nicely. But yes,
• 51:35
  I guess you are drawing some parallels. You know,
• 51:38
  you're in a place and you don't know who's there
• 51:41
  and if it could be dangerous or not. Exactly,
• 51:44
  and whatever makes it more strange makes it more
• 51:48
  scary. Yeah. But maybe that's just because you're
• 51:52
  not, you know, in tune with yourself and you're
• 51:55
  afraid of what you might do because for whatever
• 51:59
  reason you think it's not right. That brings
• 52:04
  us full circle to don't be afraid and do the
• 52:07
  things that you need. And we should probably
• 52:10
  move on to the next perspective. Wait, what was
• 52:16
  this perspective? I forget. You know, moving
• 52:21
  house can... You need to identify the things
• 52:25
  in your environment that make you uncomfortable.
• 52:29
  Feel the fear. Feel the fear and do it anyway.
• 52:32
  Yeah. Well, I don't know. I wasn't scared of
• 52:34
  moving. I wanted to move. I just didn't realize
• 52:37
  how toxic that environment was for me. Well,
• 52:40
  why would you think... Why was your old apartment
• 52:43
  toxic though? Just because it had a lot of traffic
• 52:46
  sounds? No, because of the noise and the size
• 52:50
  and the feeling of coming home and the distance
• 52:53
  and all the little things, the little concessions
• 52:57
  that I made to my quality of life in order to
• 53:01
  stay there. Uh, well, I mean, everyone does that,
• 53:05
  right? Yeah, but I'm saying make fewer. Like
• 53:09
  you can definitely make some, but I just made
• 53:11
  way too many. Like I had to walk 400 meters to
• 53:15
  get to my car. I had to like rush to work every
• 53:18
  morning. I had to deal with bad noise. The place
• 53:21
  was too small. All of these things, right? And
• 53:24
  I stayed there for five years. I was overpaying
• 53:29
  for sure. I don't know how much your last, was
• 53:34
  your last apartment more or less than your current
• 53:36
  apartment? Less, but it was also half the size.
• 53:40
  It was three quarters the price and half the
• 53:43
  size. Okay. Yeah. I don't know, I think it can.
• 53:48
  Do you have a perspective to share for us? So,
• 53:54
  and when you say perspective, like, can it be
• 53:56
  on any topic or? Absolutely. Anything, anything.
• 54:00
  Like anything that grinds your gears that you
• 54:04
  want to talk about that will just turn us into
• 54:05
  a bunch of... Or something that helps you carry
• 54:09
  on the region. I was just gonna say gossipy hoes,
• 54:12
  you know, whatever. Just like, you know, spill
• 54:14
  the tea. Anything. Or something that helps you
• 54:18
  become who you are today. Okay. I feel like...
• 54:24
  There's anything... Go for it. Go for it. I was
• 54:27
  just gonna say, if like, if there's anything...
• 54:29
  anything that's come to your mind lately that
• 54:31
  you just thought about and you're like, huh,
• 54:34
  I wonder just anything lately, you know, the
• 54:40
  secret lives of everyday objects. What does the
• 54:42
  table think? Well, it's funny. I feel like the
• 54:47
  thing that popped into my head was leadership
• 54:50
  and the fact that when I embarked on this journey,
• 54:54
  I never wanted to be a manager of people and
• 54:57
  For me, I feel like what's been really fascinating
• 55:01
  for me was just having to grapple with the idea
• 55:07
  of leading a team of people and that dynamic
• 55:10
  and having to navigate people's feelings when
• 55:16
  it comes to being in this space and how often
• 55:19
  those can shift very suddenly. Leadership is
• 55:22
  a very funny thing because it's like I think
• 55:24
  we've all at some point have worked for someone
• 55:26
  and we all have in our mind like what we think
• 55:29
  is a good leader and who we think is a good manager
• 55:32
  and and I think it's so funny when the tables
• 55:35
  turn and then you're now in that position where
• 55:38
  you're now having to lead and Then all of a sudden
• 55:42
  it changes, you know, like before you would You
• 55:46
  know, it's like it's almost like now I feel empathy
• 55:50
  from my previous managers, who probably thought
• 55:54
  that I was such a little a -hole, you know, for,
• 55:58
  you know, giving them such a hard time. And now
• 56:01
  that I'm in this position as a leader, I realize
• 56:04
  how challenging it can be, you know, to embody
• 56:08
  this person that feels authentic, but at the
• 56:10
  same time, you know, creates a sense of, you
• 56:13
  know, inspiration for people. Honestly, I would
• 56:19
  say it's been one of the toughest things I've
• 56:21
  had to navigate on this journey is how to be
• 56:24
  authentically myself, but then also someone that
• 56:27
  people aspire, someone that people are inspired
• 56:30
  by, if that makes sense. And I feel like the
• 56:33
  two don't always converge, but it's a work in
• 56:36
  progress, I'll say. At the risk of being controversial,
• 56:41
  I disagree. Wait, disagree about what? I think
• 56:45
  that you are, maybe this is not true, but I think
• 56:51
  that to me you came across as being completely
• 56:54
  authentically yourself. And you absolutely inspired
• 56:58
  me to take a lot of the risks that I'm... found
• 57:07
  a partner online, a fellow trans woman who lives
• 57:11
  in South Africa. We are now 50 -50 owners of
• 57:15
  a registered company in South Africa. And that
• 57:18
  is partly due to your inspiration. Oh, thank
• 57:22
  you for sharing that. That honestly just like
• 57:24
  makes me want to cry to know that I had that
• 57:29
  effect on you. It just, yeah. And I... And I
• 57:33
  think what you all are seeing in real time is
• 57:34
  I'm my own worst critic. You know, I struggle
• 57:37
  with that. You know, I sometimes do have imposter
• 57:41
  syndrome when it comes to success and building
• 57:46
  things because I still just deem myself as just,
• 57:50
  you know, just like special, but just someone
• 57:54
  who just really truly cares about the queer community
• 57:58
  and just wants to do something great, you know.
• 58:01
  And that's it. And so if I have a positive effect
• 58:05
  on someone's life or I make someone feel welcome,
• 58:07
  then for me, that's a win. The queer community
• 58:11
  is missing, especially in South Africa, because
• 58:14
  the environment is actually so conservative on
• 58:19
  the surface. Cape Town is definitely an oasis,
• 58:22
  but it's an oasis for people coming from the
• 58:25
  outside. There's this conservative net. around.
• 58:29
  I think one of the things that's lacking, and
• 58:31
  I might be wrong in this, but from my perspective,
• 58:34
  is a solid network of, for lack of a better term,
• 58:39
  boss -ass queer people just making a killing.
• 58:45
  And I want to be part of that group of people
• 58:50
  that are making a difference every day, no matter
• 58:53
  how small. So that's kind of my goal. Yeah, and
• 58:58
  that's my general feeling as well, to be honest
• 59:00
  with you. I do feel like there are other queer
• 59:05
  entrepreneurs here, of course, but I don't feel
• 59:08
  like we've developed necessarily like a network
• 59:11
  or community where we're all supporting one another.
• 59:14
  I think everyone is kind of sort of doing their
• 59:17
  own thing more or less. Of course, you know,
• 59:19
  when I started promoting, you know, a lot of
• 59:21
  people approached me to want to do partnerships
• 59:23
  and things like that, but to be honest, a lot
• 59:26
  of them Don't come to fruition. I think people
• 59:29
  just get really excited. Like they get that shiny,
• 59:33
  um, that new shiny syndrome where they see something
• 59:35
  new and they're like, Ooh, I just, I want to
• 59:37
  like learn more about that. But then when it
• 59:40
  actually comes to building something solid or
• 59:42
  like creating a network that tends to not really
• 59:45
  manifest as much. So, and it could be just the
• 59:48
  culture in Cape town. I mean, I grew up in LA,
• 59:51
  so this is a culture that I'm all too familiar
• 59:53
  with people. presenting themselves as genuine
• 59:57
  and wanting to build something only to, like,
• 1:00:00
  never hear from them. So, um... Ask me about
• 1:00:04
  authors that want to come on Kaleidoscope. There
• 1:00:07
  have been a few, and none of them come to fruition.
• 1:00:11
  Oh, okay. Yeah. I was gonna be like, don't bring
• 1:00:13
  that up. What if there are authors on Kaleidoscope?
• 1:00:16
  Shame. I'm sure eventually there will be, but
• 1:00:20
  so far, none. Everybody wants to be a writer,
• 1:00:23
  but nobody wants to write. That part I'm full
• 1:00:29
  of I'm full of pedantic I can say the same thing
• 1:00:32
  about I could say the same thing about like You
• 1:00:36
  know partnership and entrepreneur like everyone
• 1:00:38
  wants to be an entrepreneur, but only to build
• 1:00:40
  anything It's the same sentiment like as soon
• 1:00:43
  as they realize the work involved they kind of
• 1:00:46
  go Yeah, you have to have that grit and like
• 1:00:54
  really have to push yourself. Like, you know,
• 1:00:56
  you don't want to do it. It's like you got to
• 1:00:58
  brush your teeth. Nobody wants to brush their
• 1:01:00
  teeth, but they know they have to. So there are
• 1:01:03
  the people who know they have to and they force
• 1:01:05
  themselves to do it, even if they're miserable.
• 1:01:09
  And they can see the benefits or hope for the
• 1:01:13
  benefits of putting in the effort. But most people,
• 1:01:15
  not most people, but there are people who's saying
• 1:01:17
  in the back of their heads, you know, ah, it's
• 1:01:20
  not going to work out. So don't bother. Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  persistence, perseverance, and the other thing
• 1:01:28
  that I think that one of the big stoppers of
• 1:01:31
  people doing cool stuff is somebody else has
• 1:01:34
  done it already. Yeah, but you have to realize
• 1:01:37
  there are no new ideas or everything has been
• 1:01:40
  done already. I can say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:01:46
  yeah. Definitely a younger Luigi always used
• 1:01:50
  to... He was definitely one of those, ah, someone
• 1:01:53
  else did it, so what's the point kind of people.
• 1:01:55
  And then he sees people still doing those things
• 1:01:59
  and going like, ah, why, why didn't I, why wasn't
• 1:02:02
  I the kind of person that could be like that
• 1:02:05
  person who just did it anyway? Yeah. So yeah,
• 1:02:08
  I definitely, I will, I will admit I am one of
• 1:02:12
  those defeatist kinds of people. And I'm just
• 1:02:15
  riding Ruby's coattails by being on this podcast.
• 1:02:22
  No, you're definitely a positive contributor.
• 1:02:25
  No, but what you're saying is so true though.
• 1:02:28
  I think so often people have this false belief
• 1:02:32
  that in order to be an entrepreneur, it has to
• 1:02:35
  be like an uniquely idea. Like it has to be like
• 1:02:38
  never done before. And that's not true at all.
• 1:02:41
  Some of the most successful businesses in the
• 1:02:43
  world have our repeats, our copies of others,
• 1:02:46
  but they just did it better. Yes. That's all
• 1:02:49
  that they did. They had better execution. They
• 1:02:51
  had better marketing. They just were just better
• 1:02:54
  than the competition. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can
• 1:02:59
  attest to that. I mean, this is something Ruby
• 1:03:02
  and I probably know a lot about. If you're in
• 1:03:04
  the city we're in, my goodness, there are so
• 1:03:06
  many coffee shops. Everybody has a coffee shop
• 1:03:10
  and it's just all, the coffee's all the same.
• 1:03:13
  And we wonder, how do these things operate? First
• 1:03:17
  of all, it's China, where you don't expect them
• 1:03:18
  to love coffee so much. But it's such a pastime
• 1:03:21
  here. And it's just, the selling point of all
• 1:03:25
  these things, all these shops, is that they're
• 1:03:27
  just always different. And that's the most interesting
• 1:03:31
  thing about them is their aesthetic. How are
• 1:03:34
  they going to do it differently than the other
• 1:03:36
  ones? And of course, obviously they're the ones,
• 1:03:38
  they're like the big conglomerate coffee shops
• 1:03:41
  that are brands and... You know, they operate
• 1:03:45
  like Starbucks, so they have a million other
• 1:03:46
  flavors. But the smaller ones, where they just
• 1:03:50
  have, you know, the usual coffees, Americanos,
• 1:03:54
  lattes, like cappuccinos, so limited. And it's
• 1:03:58
  like they don't even make like third wave coffee.
• 1:04:02
  Like they don't make pour overs. They don't have
• 1:04:03
  like coffee bean flavor profiles. It's just like
• 1:04:06
  espresso and lattes. But every one, it's just...
• 1:04:10
  how it looks on the inside that draws people,
• 1:04:14
  really. And it's like the space. And I think
• 1:04:18
  why it works so well here and why people continue
• 1:04:21
  to do it is because I honestly think people do
• 1:04:25
  not like being in their apartments. I don't think
• 1:04:27
  houses here are built in a way that is like a
• 1:04:31
  space where people want to be, which is weird
• 1:04:33
  because it's your home, but it's just... So it's
• 1:04:36
  all these third places that are so sought after.
• 1:04:41
  So you have so many examples of people doing
• 1:04:47
  the same thing, but they still have the confidence
• 1:04:49
  to do it, which is admirable obviously. It's
• 1:04:52
  great for me because I love a reason to just
• 1:04:55
  go and sit in a coffee shop and the novelty is
• 1:04:58
  just exponential. It's great. Yeah, it's so,
• 1:05:04
  so, so fascinating. Ruby, what are you thinking?
• 1:05:07
  Am I wrong? No, I'm thinking, so while you're
• 1:05:14
  talking about this, I'm running my mind back
• 1:05:17
  to you saying, Saltham looks so cool and you
• 1:05:21
  would love to stay there. And then I'm thinking,
• 1:05:23
  I'm going to be going back there. And I'm wondering,
• 1:05:27
  are you coming with me to Cape Town? Forget Bangkok.
• 1:05:31
  Hey. Don't ask me travel questions. You know
• 1:05:33
  how one of my... That's why I'm bringing it up.
• 1:05:37
  One of my... What's the word? What did we discuss
• 1:05:42
  before? My lack of growth, whatever. My fear
• 1:05:45
  to do something is travel. Traveling for me is
• 1:05:48
  just like... Really? ...such an overwhelming...
• 1:05:51
  Yeah, most people love travel. Like, oh, it excites
• 1:05:54
  them. Me, I'm just like... It feels like work,
• 1:05:56
  like, oh my God. I got a plan. I got to pack
• 1:06:00
  stuff. And what if I forget something? It's just,
• 1:06:04
  I am a creature of habit. Like I just love, I
• 1:06:07
  don't love staying home all day, but I like knowing
• 1:06:09
  I can, if I can just go back home right away.
• 1:06:13
  Don't plan. Feeling a conqueror. Yeah, I do.
• 1:06:17
  Don't plan. That's my favorite part about traveling.
• 1:06:22
  Like as a South African, I've all my life been
• 1:06:25
  plagued with the necessity of planning to get
• 1:06:28
  visas. It's why I love going to Thailand because
• 1:06:34
  I don't need a visa. It's why I love traveling
• 1:06:36
  back home because I don't have to plan. I just
• 1:06:40
  arrive and book a hotel. And then that's what
• 1:06:45
  I did when I came to you. It was like two days
• 1:06:49
  before and I was like, hey, I'm coming. Perfect.
• 1:06:53
  No planning required. And then I'll be like,
• 1:06:57
  oh, I'm going to go check out this place, maybe
• 1:07:00
  this place, maybe or not. And that's awesome.
• 1:07:03
  Okay. I think I could be that person if I had
• 1:07:07
  a lot of money. If money wasn't an issue, I'd
• 1:07:11
  be like, that place looks good. Let's go. You
• 1:07:14
  know me. Chase doesn't know this about me, but
• 1:07:17
  I feel like I bring it up in every podcast. terrible
• 1:07:20
  relationship with money. Overspender? No, I'm
• 1:07:25
  the absolute opposite of that. So you're frugal.
• 1:07:29
  I will, I will, I will, I will use a paper towel
• 1:07:32
  and then hang it up to dry and use again later.
• 1:07:36
  I'm not really like that. Oh gosh. You know,
• 1:07:38
  you get the sentiment. That's, I gotta work on
• 1:07:42
  my money. My relationship with money is... You
• 1:07:44
  gotta enjoy your life. Money is meant to be spent.
• 1:07:47
  Yeah, that's the other thing. That's what they
• 1:07:49
  say. It's a tool. I understand it's a tool, but
• 1:07:51
  I have a really bad emotional attachment to money
• 1:07:56
  that I am slowly working on. It's true. I'm trying
• 1:07:59
  to spend a little bit more than I usually do.
• 1:08:01
  Hey, I bought coffee every day this week. Do
• 1:08:04
  you know how hard that was? Every day in the
• 1:08:06
  morning. I'm like, oh, you don't need it, Luigi.
• 1:08:09
  But I'm just like, no, just do it. And it is
• 1:08:11
  so painful. The coffee wasn't even that good.
• 1:08:14
  Tell us about your leadership journey. Leadership
• 1:08:18
  journey. Me? Yeah. Okay. I don't want to toot
• 1:08:24
  my own horn and say I'm a leader, but let me
• 1:08:27
  just say, and this is what I thought of when
• 1:08:31
  Chase was talking about how he was afraid to
• 1:08:33
  be a leader, and maybe to agree or disagree,
• 1:08:36
  but the best kind of leader the world says. is
• 1:08:41
  the person who doesn't want to be a leader. Like
• 1:08:43
  those are the people you want to be the leaders
• 1:08:45
  because the people who seek out leadership are
• 1:08:48
  kind of sinister, right? They have like power
• 1:08:51
  issues. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I mean, I like to
• 1:08:56
  believe that sentiment, but I think it's very
• 1:08:59
  possible that someone who wants to be a leader
• 1:09:02
  can be a good leader. I mean, look at Bernie
• 1:09:06
  Sanders. I think he'd be a great leader. I don't
• 1:09:09
  know. I think he's thinking out to be a leader.
• 1:09:13
  So, you know, there are examples of it, but...
• 1:09:16
  What about Zoran Mamdani? Oh, yeah. I don't know
• 1:09:21
  yet. He just happened, so we'll see. I'm super
• 1:09:26
  excited. Yeah. But... I kind of agree with you,
• 1:09:32
  Luigi, though. I do think... the best leaders
• 1:09:34
  are the ones that don't necessarily want to be
• 1:09:36
  leaders. I think what it is, it's like, because
• 1:09:38
  you're not seeking recognition. You're not seeking,
• 1:09:41
  you know, it's almost like people who seek fame
• 1:09:45
  versus people who are pursuing talent. It's like
• 1:09:49
  they're not trying to be famous. They just want
• 1:09:51
  to express their talent. And so I think for me,
• 1:09:55
  I never wanted... to, you know, achieve notoriety
• 1:09:59
  or fame or anything for SoulFam. I just wanted
• 1:10:01
  to build something meaningful. And so I think
• 1:10:04
  it's really your intention that kind of dictates
• 1:10:07
  how you lead. Right. And even you, you have empathy
• 1:10:11
  for your old managers and stuff. So to me that
• 1:10:15
  tells me, you know, you're not a... I was the
• 1:10:20
  worst, I was the worst employee, guys. The worst.
• 1:10:24
  So I guess, My question for you in that regard
• 1:10:28
  is like, when you have those employees who are
• 1:10:31
  sassing you at being bad, do you have the patience
• 1:10:35
  to understand them? Or are you getting mad going
• 1:10:39
  like, ugh? Yeah, you know, it's funny actually
• 1:10:42
  because I'm starting to realize that people actually
• 1:10:48
  respect you more when you're kind. And that actually
• 1:10:52
  being super assertive or aggressive or being
• 1:10:56
  a hard ass, it actually rubs people the wrong
• 1:10:59
  way. And it actually doesn't inspire them or
• 1:11:02
  motivate them to be their best self. And so I
• 1:11:05
  found it's so funny, like everything that we're
• 1:11:07
  taught in terms of what a good leader is, is
• 1:11:11
  actually the opposite. It's actually the person
• 1:11:13
  that's relatable and very clear on expectations
• 1:11:17
  and someone that they can speak to. Those are
• 1:11:23
  the qualities that I think people actually respect
• 1:11:25
  in a leader, especially in a hostile environment
• 1:11:28
  where it's so social and it's so community -based.
• 1:11:32
  They want someone who embodies those qualities.
• 1:11:36
  Yeah. Can I just say that? Yeah, I agree with
• 1:11:41
  the kindness thing, but it's got to be... Like
• 1:11:46
  it's gotta be real kindness because I think a
• 1:11:49
  lot of people are good at putting on the mask
• 1:11:52
  of kindness and It's just it's not it's not genuine.
• 1:11:56
  It's definitely and I think people can sniff
• 1:11:59
  that out and I like your expectation thing Definitely
• 1:12:03
  having clear expectations. Like that's what people
• 1:12:05
  appreciate in a leader. Absolutely Understanding,
• 1:12:08
  you know relatability clear expectations then
• 1:12:14
  that's a lot of in my professional life a lot
• 1:12:17
  of the like the cut the The conflict thank you
• 1:12:22
  Ruby the having known your boss Having had your
• 1:12:26
  boss. I do not envy you and I'm happy to be away
• 1:12:30
  It's it's yeah, not having those those, you know
• 1:12:35
  clear expectations, but so okay chase, but you
• 1:12:38
  also said you want to inspire your employees,
• 1:12:43
  but why do you have to want to inspire them?
• 1:12:47
  Why put that pressure on yourself? I think for
• 1:12:50
  me it's because, and I think you all might have
• 1:12:55
  experienced this in your life, when you create
• 1:12:57
  and build something that you're so passionate
• 1:12:59
  about, it's very natural to want the people around
• 1:13:03
  you to share that same energy. and to share that
• 1:13:06
  same commitment that you do. Because I know that
• 1:13:09
  if they embody that, they're going to be able
• 1:13:12
  to achieve the mission that we're setting out
• 1:13:14
  to achieve. But if they don't bring that energy
• 1:13:17
  and that presence, then it becomes very difficult
• 1:13:20
  to execute that vision. And so, so yeah, so I
• 1:13:25
  think for me, it's more so I want them to feel
• 1:13:28
  like they are, how do I say this? I'm very much
• 1:13:34
  a person where I'm very sensitive to the idea
• 1:13:37
  of time and not wasting your time and not living
• 1:13:42
  a life that you know you should not be living
• 1:13:44
  or following a path that's not aligned with who
• 1:13:47
  you are. And so in that sense, if you don't feel
• 1:13:51
  inspired and motivated here, chances are that
• 1:13:55
  maybe this isn't the space for you and maybe
• 1:13:58
  you should be following a different path where
• 1:14:00
  you do feel inspired, you do feel excited. Because
• 1:14:04
  I think life is too short to just be miserable
• 1:14:08
  doing what you do instead of doing what you love.
• 1:14:12
  Yeah. And I think if you keep doing what you're
• 1:14:16
  doing, your employees will see that and they
• 1:14:20
  will admire it so much. It will move them to
• 1:14:24
  action. And I say this speaking from my experience
• 1:14:27
  because it's the... You know the bad bosses that
• 1:14:32
  aren't doing anything and delegating that make
• 1:14:35
  you disgruntled and angry But when I see the
• 1:14:37
  ones who are doing it all and you know walking
• 1:14:41
  beside me That I'm like moved, you know, and
• 1:14:46
  I've told Ruby this before you know, like when
• 1:14:50
  we worked together, I would go home and cry because
• 1:14:53
  I was so stressed. But before the other boss,
• 1:14:56
  I would go home and cry because I was so moved
• 1:14:59
  because they were such a good person. And like,
• 1:15:02
  that's the difference. And I think you don't
• 1:15:05
  have to tell your employees to be that or you
• 1:15:09
  gotta say, you gotta be inspired. You just have
• 1:15:10
  to be and do your thing and they will see it
• 1:15:14
  and it will happen. Because... I think you only
• 1:15:19
  get those kinds of bad employees when, you know,
• 1:15:23
  the boss is just some figure somewhere, you know,
• 1:15:28
  shouting down at them. Yeah, I totally agree.
• 1:15:33
  Yeah, and if I may bring it back to me and being
• 1:15:37
  a leader, there was a time in life where I tried
• 1:15:40
  to be a leader and tried to seek out leadership.
• 1:15:43
  It just never materialized. But now I just feel
• 1:15:46
  like, well, now I'm more like a weird, I found
• 1:15:49
  myself in positions of being like a consular,
• 1:15:54
  like just who sees problems and is just so hyper
• 1:16:00
  aware of dynamics that when a new leader comes,
• 1:16:03
  just giving them the down low and they've just
• 1:16:05
  always appreciated that, not to toot my own horn.
• 1:16:09
  But I think that's why I could never, I will
• 1:16:11
  never be put into a leadership. position because
• 1:16:14
  I'm just too useful the other way and people
• 1:16:16
  see it. So I got to like be lazy or something.
• 1:16:21
  So you like being a number two. You don't want
• 1:16:23
  to be Batman. You want to be Robin. I don't know
• 1:16:25
  if I could be Batman, but the number two thing
• 1:16:28
  is just like, I think something I just am because
• 1:16:33
  it's just in my nature instead of like, yeah,
• 1:16:37
  I like to gossip and complain. But it's not like
• 1:16:41
  true complaining. It's just like fun. But I do
• 1:16:45
  actually, I am very proactive in just solving
• 1:16:49
  problems. Instead of like, you know, oh, it's
• 1:16:53
  so -and -so's job. Whatever. I'll just do it.
• 1:16:56
  Oh, we need a ladder? I'll go find one. What's
• 1:16:59
  that, Ruby? That's fair. Yeah, you're right.
• 1:17:03
  It's very self -aware and good. I agree with
• 1:17:06
  your self -assessment, not entirely. I do think
• 1:17:08
  that you can be a good leader. Well, you did
• 1:17:12
  work with me, so you would know. In terms of
• 1:17:15
  being practical and proactive in solving problems,
• 1:17:19
  yeah, for sure. Thank you. I feel seen. Yeah,
• 1:17:23
  I see. Luigi, why don't you share your perspective
• 1:17:27
  with us? You mean the one I was talking about
• 1:17:29
  today? Well, whatever you want. I don't really
• 1:17:34
  have a perspective. I feel bad. I had made a
• 1:17:37
  joke perspective. Like, why am I always being
• 1:17:40
  ghosted? Yeah, go for it. Oh, is that something
• 1:17:43
  that you deal with? That's perfect. I'm curious
• 1:17:46
  about this one, because I have a lot of strong
• 1:17:49
  perspectives on ghosting. I don't know. Oh, okay.
• 1:17:51
  Well, then, okay. Well, then let's just talk
• 1:17:53
  about the topic of ghosting. I just think I'm
• 1:17:55
  bad at socializing, but I think I try. I try.
• 1:17:59
  I try, you know, I interact with people. I interact
• 1:18:05
  with women and I think it's generally positive.
• 1:18:08
  And then they just like, it just, they just disappear.
• 1:18:10
  And I'm just, it just, just tell me you don't
• 1:18:12
  want to talk to me anymore. Why do you gotta
• 1:18:14
  keep me guessing for days and days? I just don't
• 1:18:16
  like, I mean, I know ghosting is a symptom of
• 1:18:19
  like some other kind of emotion you can't process
• 1:18:25
  because it's too overwhelming, but it's just,
• 1:18:27
  ugh. Just kill him That's my perspective is why
• 1:18:31
  why do we have to ghost each other? Why and how
• 1:18:33
  does it normally go? Like you send a message
• 1:18:37
  and they just don't respond or how like how does
• 1:18:40
  it normally go? Yeah, and then you know, I'll
• 1:18:43
  try and be really, you know nice and amicable.
• 1:18:47
  And then eventually it always comes to this.
• 1:18:49
  I'll get to a point where I go like, oh, I haven't
• 1:18:52
  heard from you in a while and I hope you're doing
• 1:18:54
  okay. It just seems desperate. But I never say
• 1:18:56
  like, you know, forget you. Oh, you're such an
• 1:19:01
  expletive whatever. I don't want to swear on
• 1:19:02
  the podcast. But yeah, why? Why does it happen
• 1:19:06
  to me? Do you, I mean, I guess I have a question.
• 1:19:12
  Do you feel like, do you feel like... are fully
• 1:19:16
  opening up to the people that you're trying to
• 1:19:19
  get to know? Like, do you feel like you're letting
• 1:19:22
  people in? I mean, if, I think I'm not, I think,
• 1:19:25
  hmm, that's tough to answer. I'm not, I'm not
• 1:19:28
  opening up, but I'm not, if they were to ask
• 1:19:30
  me something, I wouldn't deny it. But I think
• 1:19:32
  I don't open up because I don't want people to
• 1:19:36
  be, I don't know, uncomfortable, scared away,
• 1:19:40
  things like that. Because sometimes I have this
• 1:19:43
  theory, I don't know if you agree, Ruby, I have
• 1:19:45
  a theory about ghosting that people ghost other
• 1:19:51
  people that they don't feel an emotional connection
• 1:19:53
  with. Because see, if you feel connected to someone
• 1:19:57
  and they're fully opening themselves up to you,
• 1:20:01
  then it's harder to ghost them because you feel
• 1:20:05
  bad about it. But when you feel disconnected
• 1:20:08
  to someone, then it's easy to ghost. Because
• 1:20:12
  there is no, there is nothing there. There is
• 1:20:15
  nothing there that makes you feel that guilt
• 1:20:18
  feeling, you know? I mean, it's also a lack of
• 1:20:21
  emotional maturity. I mean, let's just call it
• 1:20:23
  for what it is. But I do feel like that's the
• 1:20:27
  reason why I ask the question is because I do
• 1:20:29
  sometimes feel like people who are closed off
• 1:20:31
  emotionally or who don't open up easily or don't
• 1:20:35
  let people in tend to get ghosted a lot. Because
• 1:20:37
  at the end of the day, if... If there's no emotional
• 1:20:41
  connection, then it's easy for someone to dismiss
• 1:20:44
  you. But that's just my theory. I don't know
• 1:20:47
  if you agree, Ruby. Okay, yeah, but I do have
• 1:20:51
  something to say on this, but first I have a
• 1:20:54
  question for you. Are you saying that, just to
• 1:20:56
  tie everything up here, you should take the risk
• 1:21:00
  and do something like, I knew you were going
• 1:21:04
  to say that! And take the leadership in sharing
• 1:21:08
  and being kind. How do we give points for incorporating
• 1:21:14
  all ideas in the one hack statement? Yeah, you're
• 1:21:19
  right. Funny. So I do get ghosted. But for different
• 1:21:26
  reasons. And I do ghost for different reasons.
• 1:21:30
  I ghost people who are chasers. I have a problem
• 1:21:34
  with chasers. I think a lot of trans women have
• 1:21:37
  a problem with chasers. What is, what is, wait,
• 1:21:41
  is that a term? A chaser? Or are you speaking,
• 1:21:44
  this is just your own? Yeah. A chaser is a person
• 1:21:47
  who is interested in speaking to you for the
• 1:21:51
  sole express purpose of having sex with you as
• 1:21:55
  a one -eyed sand with zero emotional attachment.
• 1:21:59
  Yeah. And, and they don't, and it's, it's exasperated
• 1:22:02
  because these people generally don't want to
• 1:22:05
  be seen with you in public because they are actually
• 1:22:07
  transphobic. So that's my problem with being
• 1:22:13
  ghosted. And I've made it clear in this podcast
• 1:22:16
  already that I'm an unabashedly sexual being.
• 1:22:20
  Like things are on the table, but I have to like
• 1:22:24
  you. Of course. Like it's a very simple, right?
• 1:22:28
  If you don't want to have coffee with me, and
• 1:22:31
  if we can't have a good conversation and connect,
• 1:22:34
  it's not worth my while. So it comes back to
• 1:22:38
  exactly what you said Chase if I don't feel an
• 1:22:40
  emotional connection with you and I think that
• 1:22:42
  or Sorry, I'm saying you like with any person
• 1:22:46
  It's not it's not gonna happen Ruby as an aside
• 1:22:53
  question. Are you saying you're a sapio sexual
• 1:22:55
  and you can't just be? animalistically attracted
• 1:22:59
  to someone No, I can definitely be animalistically
• 1:23:03
  attracted to someone and they don't necessarily
• 1:23:05
  need to be... Like, to fight sapiosexual, how
• 1:23:08
  smart do you have to be? Like, the bar for sapiosexuality
• 1:23:12
  is... I never liked that. That's such a loaded
• 1:23:16
  term to me, sapiosexual. I always never trusted
• 1:23:20
  the person who says, I'm a sapiosexual. Okay,
• 1:23:22
  whatever. Yeah, because you only use that term
• 1:23:25
  if you're trying to sound smart. So... Yeah,
• 1:23:31
  rather sharp right like I could have intellectual
• 1:23:34
  conversations about soap, you know But you have
• 1:23:38
  to be into the the the topic of soaps What kind
• 1:23:41
  of sap your sexuality that doesn't mean the guy
• 1:23:43
  who knows a lot about soap is stupid. He knows
• 1:23:46
  a lot about soap So yeah, but the connection
• 1:23:49
  thing chase like you just You just totally disqualified
• 1:23:53
  my whole ghost thing because that one emotional
• 1:23:55
  connections don't get ghosted. I'm just like,
• 1:23:56
  yeah, that actually does make sense. Cause I'm
• 1:23:58
  just, you know, having these kinds of like, I
• 1:24:01
  don't say vapid, but vapid conversations with
• 1:24:04
  people in a digital space. And I think a big
• 1:24:07
  part of it is because of, you know, my location
• 1:24:09
  and where I am. I've known people. It's funny
• 1:24:12
  to me. I've known people for so long on the internet
• 1:24:16
  and we're in the same city and we just have not
• 1:24:18
  met yet for whatever reason. And they're just.
• 1:24:21
  They'll always, it seems like they'll always
• 1:24:24
  make an excuse. But I don't know if it is an
• 1:24:26
  excuse or just timing, but we still haven't met
• 1:24:31
  yet. And you know, maybe they're just not comfortable
• 1:24:34
  yet. But the thing is like, why are they still
• 1:24:37
  putting up with me? And why am I still putting
• 1:24:40
  up with them? And why are you taking the initiative?
• 1:24:43
  I try. I really do. You do? But as a man, right?
• 1:24:49
  No. I will not do that. No man should just take
• 1:24:55
  the initiative and show up. That is a recipe
• 1:24:58
  for disaster. You can't do that. No, here's what
• 1:25:03
  you do. Okay, so here's what I'm imagining right
• 1:25:07
  now. I'll give you a situation that I've been
• 1:25:10
  in. I was speaking to this guy online and he
• 1:25:15
  lives in another city. And I'm like, I'm in Suzhou
• 1:25:19
  and he says, you should come visit me. I'm like,
• 1:25:24
  why? Because I like you. Why? No answer, right?
• 1:25:30
  So like, we've been speaking for two days. Like
• 1:25:34
  literally just two days. You expect me to go
• 1:25:37
  there. I'm like, I'm sorry, there's no reason
• 1:25:40
  for me to go there. But flip this around to a
• 1:25:43
  scenario where... He keeps chatting. He never
• 1:25:47
  asks me to go to his city. And a month or so
• 1:25:52
  into us chatting, he sends me a message like,
• 1:25:55
  hey, I'm in town. I'm going to this cool restaurant
• 1:26:01
  I like. I'm going to go there. Do you want to
• 1:26:05
  meet up and chat? Yes. And there, right? For
• 1:26:10
  sure. Compared to like, hey, come to this city.
• 1:26:14
  Yeah. without even a suggestion. So what you
• 1:26:16
  could do is like, hey, I'm in town. I saw this
• 1:26:19
  really cool restaurant. I was wondering if you'd
• 1:26:21
  be interested in meeting me. You're inviting
• 1:26:23
  her to a public space in her hometown and giving
• 1:26:27
  her the choice and power. Of course. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:26:29
  yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm well aware of those dynamics.
• 1:26:33
  It's just, you know, there are those people who,
• 1:26:38
  for whatever reason, will say, oh, I have a cold,
• 1:26:42
  but maybe next week. And you're like, oh, OK,
• 1:26:44
  they're rejecting me. That's OK. It's just cold
• 1:26:47
  feet. Yeah, it's cold feet. But then like days
• 1:26:50
  later, they'll talk to you again. Yeah, that's
• 1:26:53
  annoying. A cute little emoji. And you're like,
• 1:26:55
  oh, hey, what's up? And then push, pull, and
• 1:27:00
  then ghost it. And one of the most fun things
• 1:27:03
  I've had, the most fun I've had this year. Yeah.
• 1:27:08
  You guys will both know about this and the TikTok
• 1:27:12
  refugee crisis. When, when TikTok got shut down.
• 1:27:18
  Yeah, months ago. In the States, a bunch of TikTok
• 1:27:22
  users came to a Chinese app called Redbook. Um,
• 1:27:27
  and all of the chat rooms just like, boom, spiked.
• 1:27:30
  There were so many people on there talking and
• 1:27:33
  suddenly English. And today still. Like some
• 1:27:37
  of the people have stayed and they keep going
• 1:27:40
  on to Red Note. I have met personally, face to
• 1:27:43
  face, seven people that I met online on Red Note.
• 1:27:48
  Um, and it's been so much fun because you create,
• 1:27:54
  there was zero expectation. We just started talking
• 1:27:56
  online and they're like, Hey, I'm going, I'm
• 1:27:58
  going to go to China. Is it possible that we
• 1:28:01
  could like meet up? and they're in Shanghai and
• 1:28:04
  that's a completely different scenario, right?
• 1:28:06
  I will go, I will pick you up at the airport.
• 1:28:10
  Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And also too, I was going
• 1:28:15
  to ask you both, have you thought about or reflected
• 1:28:19
  on your subconscious thoughts when it comes to
• 1:28:23
  relationships and dating? I will say yes, but
• 1:28:27
  I don't know if that's actually true. I want
• 1:28:30
  to think I am reflecting, but... I don't objectively
• 1:28:32
  know if I'm reflecting the right way. Because
• 1:28:35
  one thing I've discovered is... Aw. Aw. So cute.
• 1:28:41
  Ruby, why are you distracting us? This is...
• 1:28:47
  This is Tesla. She's the dog. Hi, Tesla. Beautiful.
• 1:28:54
  After the scientist, not the car. Of course.
• 1:29:00
  It's an important distinction to make. But yeah,
• 1:29:02
  one thing that I've discovered too that I find
• 1:29:05
  really fascinating is that sometimes I feel like
• 1:29:07
  we carry subconscious beliefs about relationship
• 1:29:10
  into new connections, and we unintentionally
• 1:29:13
  push people away because they can feel our closed
• 1:29:18
  -offness. They can feel our negativity when it
• 1:29:22
  comes to thinking, oh, this is just going to
• 1:29:24
  be another person that ghosted me or another
• 1:29:26
  person that disappointed me. When people can
• 1:29:30
  feel that and what's interesting is that it becomes
• 1:29:33
  a self -fulfilling prophecy where it becomes
• 1:29:36
  a cycle now. Because until we shift our subconscious
• 1:29:40
  beliefs about love and dating and the people
• 1:29:43
  that we interact with, we just keep manifesting
• 1:29:46
  the same outcome. And so that's another thing
• 1:29:48
  that I thought about with ghosting is I think
• 1:29:50
  sometimes it's hard to admit that we perpetuate
• 1:29:54
  the ghosting. We perpetuate that cycle. because
• 1:29:58
  of the energy that we bring to connections. And
• 1:30:02
  people are simply responding to our subconscious
• 1:30:04
  beliefs and energy. And really just confirming
• 1:30:07
  what we already think is gonna happen, which
• 1:30:10
  is ghosting or disappointment. Yeah, very true.
• 1:30:14
  Chase, are you sure you're just a hostile? Sure
• 1:30:18
  not some like LA guru. You weren't, you didn't
• 1:30:25
  do anything like that in the past, are you sure?
• 1:30:27
  So you're offering a lot of good advice today.
• 1:30:31
  I do my best. How is your dating life? If I may
• 1:30:36
  ask. You said how is my daily life? Dating. Oh,
• 1:30:42
  dating life. Oh, okay. Yeah. Funny enough, I
• 1:30:47
  have my own sort of cycles and demons that I
• 1:30:51
  also need to break. myself, which is why I think
• 1:30:53
  I can speak on it because as someone who continues
• 1:30:57
  to come with, you know, challenges in that area
• 1:30:59
  of my life, it's yeah, it's become very salient
• 1:31:04
  for me. So I think for me, the cycle that I'm
• 1:31:07
  trying to break is I tend to move fast because
• 1:31:11
  I'm a very passionate, I'm a very passionate
• 1:31:14
  guy. And so when I am into someone, then I'm
• 1:31:19
  just like, I'm like the opposite of cautious.
• 1:31:24
  I'm like, let's book a ticket, let's plan a trip
• 1:31:27
  together, let's go for it. You know, I'm just,
• 1:31:31
  I'm, cause I'm so, I think what it is is I'm
• 1:31:33
  so unjaded when it comes to my heart and my heart
• 1:31:37
  is so open. So I'm kind of the opposite of you,
• 1:31:41
  Luigi, in that I'm so open and I'm so giving
• 1:31:45
  of my energy that oftentimes I go too quickly
• 1:31:49
  and... don't allow the time to really get to
• 1:31:53
  know the person. So I think if you and I were
• 1:31:55
  to combine our energies, we'd be perfect. Yeah.
• 1:32:01
  It seems that way. There's definitely, you need
• 1:32:05
  a delicate balance. I can admit. I am very patient
• 1:32:10
  and careful because I do, I think I do on some
• 1:32:14
  level think like, it's not going to work out.
• 1:32:15
  That's terrible. See, and I'm the opposite in
• 1:32:18
  that I think everything's going to work out.
• 1:32:20
  So I go for it. It's your business acumen. You're
• 1:32:25
  a go getter. That's what it is. Yeah. At the
• 1:32:29
  end of the day, I know that I have enough resilience
• 1:32:32
  to get over the heartbreak if it doesn't work
• 1:32:34
  out. And so I think that's the difference. It's
• 1:32:37
  like, I'm willing to put my heart out there and
• 1:32:41
  be vulnerable knowing that it can be disappointed
• 1:32:44
  or heartbroken because the alternative is being
• 1:32:48
  cautious and that person's sensing that and then
• 1:32:53
  it makes them cautious. It makes them not want
• 1:32:57
  to put themselves out there. And so then you
• 1:33:00
  kind of have a stalemate essentially. And so
• 1:33:03
  I've just become used to being the person that's
• 1:33:06
  the initiator. And it's like, hey, like, let's
• 1:33:08
  go for this. And usually it rubs off on people,
• 1:33:12
  even if it all comes crashing down. Right. Not
• 1:33:17
  really good advice. I think that's really, really
• 1:33:20
  useful. Yeah. Now I'm just, I'm going to have
• 1:33:23
  to uncomfortably push myself. Yeah. To be a go
• 1:33:28
  -getter. You'd be surprised how people respond
• 1:33:30
  to boldness. I think people are desperate for
• 1:33:33
  it. They're desperate for someone to just break
• 1:33:36
  away from the scripts when it comes to dating
• 1:33:39
  and just do something completely out the norm
• 1:33:42
  and just kind of shake them up almost. And then
• 1:33:46
  you find that, you know, those are the best kind
• 1:33:50
  of connections, those spontaneous connections
• 1:33:52
  where you're just letting go and you're not overthinking
• 1:33:55
  it and just allowing your heart to leave and
• 1:33:59
  not your head, which I know a lot of cisgender
• 1:34:01
  males struggle with. Yes. You're all in your
• 1:34:10
  head when you need to be in your heart space.
• 1:34:14
  Yeah. Definitely. I mean, yeah, better to just
• 1:34:18
  go for it. I mean, if you're going to be hesitant
• 1:34:20
  and you know it's not going to work out, then
• 1:34:21
  just go for it and make it not work out. Yeah.
• 1:34:24
  Because then it might work out. It's almost a
• 1:34:26
  paradox almost. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
• 1:34:29
  So to answer your question, Ruby, I am single,
• 1:34:32
  but I am continuing to... you know, put myself
• 1:34:36
  out there. And sometimes I get it right, but
• 1:34:40
  sometimes I get it wrong. But at the end of the
• 1:34:43
  day, I'm enjoying the journey regardless. I'm
• 1:34:50
  sure the destination is going to be worthwhile
• 1:34:52
  because you're putting out all the right energy
• 1:34:55
  and you're going to get exactly who you deserve,
• 1:34:59
  who is a soulmate, a great person. Yes, I hope
• 1:35:03
  so. I think that is an excellent spot to wrap
• 1:35:09
  up today's episode. This has been Kaleidoscope
• 1:35:15
  PBTS with Chase King, founder of SoulFam Hostel
• 1:35:20
  in Cape Town, South Africa's first LGBTQIA +,
• 1:35:26
  positive, expressly inclusive hostel. Find SoulFam
• 1:35:32
  Hostel on www .soulfamhostel .com. I have stayed
• 1:35:39
  there. It is a lovely place and I encourage anybody
• 1:35:43
  to do so. Thank you so much. I was also joined
• 1:35:46
  with Luigi. You can find Luigi on Kaleidoscope.
• 1:35:51
  You can find me at echoember .co .uk or on Instagram
• 1:35:58
  at Fire from heat. Thank you for listening. Goodbye.