Latest / Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt / Michael J. Bobbitt on Turning Creative Power into Political Power

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Michael J. Bobbitt on Turning Creative Power into Political Power · Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt

• 0:08
  Welcome back to CI to Eye. I'm Monica Holt.
• 0:11
  Today I'm joined by Michael J. Bobbitt.
• 0:14
  He's the executive director of Mass Cultural Council,
• 0:17
  which means he's the highest ranking public official focused on arts and culture
• 0:21
  in Massachusetts state government.
• 0:24
  Michael's journey from performer to artistic director to state cultural leader
• 0:28
  has given him a unique perspective on what our sector needs to thrive.
• 0:33
  His leadership has always been inspiring,
• 0:35
  but I was particularly moved by why he believes the arts community has more
• 0:39
  power than we realize. We just need to start using it differently.
• 0:43
  We explore his insights on building unexpected partnerships,
• 0:47
  why we shouldn't wait for an invitation to show up in rooms that have an impact
• 0:51
  on artists,
• 0:52
  and how we can shift from admiring our problems together to creating
• 0:57
  active, transformational solutions.
• 1:00
  This is a dialogue about possibility-about what happens when we stop hoping
• 1:04
  someone else will fix our challenges for us,
• 1:07
  and instead start leveraging our own creative strengths to build the future we
• 1:11
  want. If you're ready to think differently about advocacy,
• 1:15
  collaboration, and the untapped potential of the arts sector,
• 1:19
  you're going to love this conversation. Let's dive in.
• 1:29
  Michael J. Bobbitt, welcome to CI to Eye.
• 1:32
  Thank you so much for being here and joining us today.
• 1:35
  Thank you so much for having me. This is really exciting.
• 1:38
  I have long admired your work. Our paths have crossed lightly before,
• 1:42
  but I'm so excited to really be sitting down together and hearing more about
• 1:46
  your story and your perspective, particularly on this moment in time,
• 1:50
  which is a very interesting one for all of us to be navigating.
• 1:54
  But before we get there,
• 1:55
  you've had a pretty remarkable journey from performance artist,
• 1:59
  you have been an artistic director,
• 2:01
  now you are leading a statewide cultural agency.
• 2:06
  Talk to us a little bit about your very first memories of the arts and what role
• 2:10
  the arts played in your childhood to form this very whole complete interesting
• 2:14
  person before me today.
• 2:17
  It's so very interesting because that very first memory is very visceral for me.
• 2:21
  I remember in the first grade,
• 2:23
  I was Hansel in the third act of Hansel and Gretel.
• 2:28
  Yes, there were three Hansels.
• 2:30
  Oh, the third act!
• 2:30
  There was a moment in act three where I was locked in the cage and I
• 2:35
  had this line and I said the line,
• 2:39
  and the room erupted in laughter,
• 2:42
  and something in me kind of snapped in that moment. It felt like a power.
• 2:47
  There was a joy in making a whole room feel joy,
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  and what flashed through my head was,
• 2:56
  I remember the drunken fights that were happening at my home
• 3:01
  the night before.
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  I remember the conversations that people had about my
• 3:07
  father and uncles that were incarcerated.
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  I remember watching every single adult in my life
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  dealing with addictions and joblessness and mental health issues.
• 3:19
  They all just sort of faded away for a brief moment and
• 3:24
  something in me just felt better,
• 3:26
  and I just wanted that experience again and again and again for my own self
• 3:29
  preservation,
• 3:31
  but also being in that play and making other people feel better
• 3:36
  just stuck with me. I never imagined it would be a career.
• 3:40
  I just kept doing it because it was a way to stay away from the dysfunctional
• 3:44
  home and find joy and experience the world in a different way because I was
• 3:49
  learning music from other cultures and pretending to be characters in plays,
• 3:54
  and so I just became obsessed with it.
• 3:58
  Were there teachers or mentors throughout your time in your education who were
• 4:02
  nurturing and fostering this,
• 4:04
  or were you having to seek it out wherever you could find it?
• 4:07
  For the most part, every art teacher I had, I felt a kinship with,
• 4:11
  but there were two in particular.
• 4:12
  Theresa Gilmore at Parkview Elementary School in Lower Northwest DC
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  public schools, and then Chris Flannery,
• 4:19
  when I went to Gonzaga High School,
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  was my band teacher and our relationship was really very paternal.
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  The two of them really sort of saw something special in me and supported me in
• 4:32
  my love of art.
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  And actually my first real experience at the Kennedy Center was
• 4:39
  with the National Symphony Orchestra's Youth Fellowship program,
• 4:43
  for which I got to go to the Kennedy Center every week and rehearse with the
• 4:47
  orchestra and watch rehearsals and participate in masterclasses,
• 4:51
  and it just was a great thing.
• 4:55
  Yeah, that program is incredibly special and the fact that you're an alum,
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  I mean,
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  there's such a wonderful group of artists who found a home at the center through
• 5:04
  those early programs and it's special to hear about how you came through there
• 5:08
  too. So you were a trumpet player in high school into college.
• 5:12
  I also think of you as a playwright and a director and a choreographer,
• 5:17
  and we talk a lot on the podcast about the multi hyphenate artist and what
• 5:22
  that really means today,
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  how that's maybe different than how artists were viewed even
• 5:28
  20, 30, 40 years ago.
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  What do you think about as you present yourself in the world with such a rich
• 5:35
  history of many different inputs?
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  In my own journey,
• 5:41
  I sort of took advantage of the opportunities as they showed up.
• 5:44
  Some of it has to do with how my interests lied with those art forms.
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  Some of them might've been out of fear that I wasn't good enough to really be a
• 5:55
  master at a specific art form.
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  But I think ultimately being a multi hyphenated artist has expanded
• 6:03
  my mind creatively.
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  I don't necessarily feel like I can't solve a
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  problem creatively and collaboratively.
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  I don't need to solve the problem by myself.
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  I know how to pull a room together and work with all the minds in the rooms to
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  come up with the most creative collaboration. That ego goes away from me.
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  So I think being a multi hyphenated artist is a great thing.
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  And to your point about institutions,
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  I think institutions have a lot of work to do.
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  I'm frustrated by the fact that you can get a degree in art
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  and never take a business class and never take a government class.
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  The two things that are crucial to your success as an artist,
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  and I think institutions just need to look at everything all over again to meet
• 6:50
  the need of today.
• 6:52
  Yeah, well, that's certainly true and I agree with what you're saying,
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  and as we look at how we can be helpful to education institutions and rethinking
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  that model, it also requires the kind of next step and where those students go
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  after to also be modeling it,
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  which you would think we would have a little more flexibility in.
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  Higher education is incredibly complex and there's as much bureaucracy
• 7:15
  there as anywhere,
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  but there is some freedom in nonprofit art spaces to make changes more quickly.
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  But as you say, it's just not something that's been activated on.
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  And also, this is maybe a weird thing to say,
• 7:26
  but I think we might be progressive in our art,
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  but very conservative in the way we do business.
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  And I think that needs to change because again,
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  when you have a whole sector that's struggling,
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  we can't say that's from external forces. That's us.
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  I really strongly believe that the problems that the art sector is facing is the
• 7:48
  art sector's fault because we are so conservative,
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  because we are under organized,
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  because we're under-skilled from a business perspective, because we don't,
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  when we compare us to other sectors and their advocacy efforts,
• 8:00
  we really aren't very strong at that. So we all have to change.
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  The big institutions that are hiring people can get together and start putting
• 8:08
  pressure on institutions to change their curriculum to meet the needs that we
• 8:11
  have today.
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  So let's come back to that in a little bit,
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  but just talking through your own journey,
• 8:18
  you stepped away from the stage at a certain point to pursue a different branch,
• 8:23
  let's say, of a very full career.
• 8:26
  What was that transition like and how did you bring the lessons from the stage
• 8:30
  and being a director, an artistic director, forward?
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  I do think it goes back to my curiosity about art making
• 8:39
  in general,
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  which is why I think the multihyphenate is a
• 8:44
  part of who I am. The other part I will say is that some of it was logistic.
• 8:49
  I adopted a baby in 2002 and I was in a show at Arena
• 8:53
  Stage, Guys and Dolls, and I realized that while I was in the show,
• 8:57
  I was missing cuddle time.
• 9:00
  I was dancing while he was having books read and going to
• 9:05
  sleep, and I was like, this is not fun. I want to be home with my kid.
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  And that was the first moment I decided that I didn't need to be a performer.
• 9:14
  I also loved the process of making art.
• 9:18
  I love watching the brains of the director and the choreographer and the music
• 9:21
  director and the producers and all the people involved putting it together. And
• 9:26
  I realized I liked that side of the table more.
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  And then some people challenged me to think about moving into arts management,
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  and I took the challenge. I was intrigued by it,
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  so I took every single course I could
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  find, fellowship, week-long intensive,
• 9:43
  free stuff in finance and fundraising and HR and
• 9:48
  nonprofit management and board and governance.
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  And then it became clear that I liked being outside of the room,
• 9:55
  making the room available for artists to be artists rather than being in the
• 9:59
  room.
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  I still did a little bit of choreography and some directing around town that
• 10:05
  sort of fed my artistic need,
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  but more of the time I loved being outside the room.
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  And the one thing I will say is in the DC area,
• 10:14
  and particularly in Montgomery County,
• 10:16
  advocacy became really a core function of your job when you were an
• 10:21
  arts leader.
• 10:22
  You really needed to show up and your colleagues held you accountable to
• 10:27
  that.
• 10:28
  Well, so let's talk about that.
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  You're now the highest ranking public official in Massachusetts state government
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  focused on arts and culture.
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  I imagine you are finding yourselves in conversations with artists and
• 10:39
  policymakers daily and creating a bridge between those conversations.
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  For the listener who might not be as aware,
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  can you just explain what your role is in your own words?
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  Sure. So all states and even our territories have some form of a
• 10:56
  state arts council.
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  Our job is to basically support the creative sector of our
• 11:02
  state.
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  A lot of that happens through grant making and some of it happens through some
• 11:08
  policymaking and or cross sector partnerships.
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  So that's my job in Massachusetts.
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  I am meeting up with my arts and humanities and
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  interpretive science folks,
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  finding out what their issues are and trying to translate that and get that in
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  front of legislators or the administration or other agencies across
• 11:28
  Massachusetts to see how we can build sustainability and find
• 11:33
  resources for them. And so that's basically my job. I mean,
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  the fun part is I get to give out about $43 million in
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  grants all across the state.
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  So as you are thinking about that $43 million in grants,
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  what is the approach and the vision you take for Massachusetts right
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  now? Or maybe better to think about what was the approach you've taken,
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  and how has that changed in this particular moment?
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  We really have changed the whole business model of the agency.
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  Even that amount of money only supports a small portion of the sector.
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  We have about 2,500 grants a year,
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  and we have many more organizations and many more people in the state.
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  And so when we did our strategic plan, I asked a couple of questions.
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  One was,
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  what is the benefit of the agency to people and organizations that don't get
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  grants?
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  Those grants are deeply meaningful when you get them. What is our value
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  if you don't get them? And the second question is,
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  what are we uniquely positioned to do?
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  We're not a foundation. We're not a juried prize.
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  We are part of government. We have access to government.
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  So how do we infuse arts and culture across state government?
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  How are we building relationships with other state agencies?
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  How are we unlocking resources in, say,
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  transportation or housing or healthcare?
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  How are we making sure they are thinking about the sector as a tool to solve
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  their problems and how do we make sure that their programs are available for
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  the arts sector? And so that's the work we're doing now.
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  It's new for us because we're shifting from grant administration
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  to, in many ways, sales and advancement,
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  trying to convince other agencies to include the arts sector and sometimes to
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  have the conversations with people that wouldn't normally think of
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  talking to the arts sector. You can see their eyes open.
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  We're meeting with Department of Corrections and Executive Office of Public
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  Safety later on this week to talk about arts being used as a sentencing
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  tool for their parolees.
• 13:46
  Oh, how interesting.
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  Right. So it's really super exciting.
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  The other thing I would say is that the growth of the art sector is not going to
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  come from the sector and the usual suspects. There's no more money.
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  It's going to come from sectors we have outcomes in.
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  Education and health and recidivism and all
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  those things that we know we're good at. So it's on us,
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  not just the state agency but the sector,
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  to build those relationships and unlock those resources.
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  I think that's extraordinarily well said and something for all of us to really
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  think about. I'm curious,
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  is there an example of a project or partnership that's currently underway where
• 14:26
  you feel like that connection bridging a different government sector with the
• 14:31
  artistic communities has really started to gel or that you're watching come to
• 14:35
  life now?
• 14:37
  Sure. I mean,
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  the biggest thing I can brag on is that Massachusetts last summer launched the
• 14:41
  first in the nation's statewide solution to arts prescribing.
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  So this is a program we beta tested for four years and the healthcare providers
• 14:50
  would literally prescribe arts engagement to their patients.
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  Mass Cultural Council was reimbursing the arts organizations for filling those
• 14:59
  prescriptions.
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  And then I came back to the team and they had talked about it before I got
• 15:04
  there, but I came back to the team and said, we are doing healthcare's job.
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  Healthcare should be paying us for doing this, for healing them.
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  There we go.
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  And so we paused the reimbursements. Of course my staff was mad and I said,
• 15:18
  well,
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  we're going to work with someone to help us scale this and figure out how to
• 15:21
  engage healthcare so that they're paying for it.
• 15:23
  So last summer we launched the first in the nation's statewide solutions to arts
• 15:27
  prescribing. So now in across Massachusetts healthcare providers,
• 15:31
  which include nurses, faith leaders,
• 15:34
  addiction specialists,
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  they can prescribe 12 doses of arts and culture to their patients.
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  These doses come with companion tickets,
• 15:44
  they come with transportation if needed.
• 15:47
  The patient has agency to pick the kind of arts engagement they want to go to.
• 15:51
  So there can be a class, it can be a museum visit,
• 15:54
  and this is all paid for by third party payers including insurance companies and
• 15:59
  managed care providers. Opioid settlement money is paying for it,
• 16:04
  housing authority money. We're talking with gaming commissions.
• 16:09
  So it's growing.
• 16:10
  It's growing and it's a revenue stream for those arts organizations.
• 16:13
  I think at the moment we have nearly 200 arts organizations that have been
• 16:16
  referred and the results are amazing. Patients are taking their arts medicine.
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  77% of the patients getting prescriptions are taking their medicine,
• 16:25
  which is 37% higher than drug prescriptions.
• 16:31
  That's a remarkable statistic.
• 16:34
  The satisfaction rate is great.
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  They're reporting 40% less return to their doctors and a
• 16:40
  340% decrease in emergency room visits.
• 16:44
  Not to mention that all those sort of scientific scores that we use to
• 16:49
  measure loneliness and anxiety and depression,
• 16:52
  were all showing improvement on those.
• 16:55
  And so we're saving healthcare money, we're healing people,
• 16:59
  we're generating a revenue stream and new patronage for arts organizations.
• 17:05
  It's a remarkable program. I imagine folks listening will wonder, well,
• 17:09
  why isn't my state doing this or why haven't we gotten there yet?
• 17:14
  Do you have any advice or are you reading the tea leaves across the country to
• 17:18
  see if this is something that could become replicable?
• 17:23
  It is totally replicable, and I think of it like school lunches and seat belts,
• 17:27
  which were an invention that came out of nonprofits and they slowly built up
• 17:32
  around the country.
• 17:33
  So it's going to require the arts sector to do something different,
• 17:38
  which is hard, which means to get into the room with healthcare providers.
• 17:43
  This is not an arts program. This is a healthcare provider,
• 17:46
  and so things are popping up all over the country,
• 17:49
  both social prescribing and specifically arts prescribing.
• 17:52
  But if people are interested in doing this in their state,
• 17:55
  they should talk to their state arts agency.
• 17:57
  Maybe that can be the lead person to manage this,
• 18:00
  but their first attempt should be to get healthcare convenings together
• 18:05
  and pitch the idea.
• 18:07
  We did a lot of pitching before we got our first insurer and major healthcare
• 18:10
  system on board. So that's the kind of innovation that I think we need,
• 18:15
  and that's the kind of mining of other people's money
• 18:20
  that we need to start trying to figure out how to get on to.
• 18:25
  Yeah, that's right.
• 18:26
  What advice would you give to arts leaders who haven't built these relationships
• 18:30
  with policymakers or with other sectors yet, but who want to start?
• 18:35
  People do business with people they know.
• 18:38
  So it's incumbent of leaders of arts organizations to get away
• 18:43
  from their desks and get out into community and get to know the community
• 18:47
  members, meet every legislator,
• 18:49
  both municipal and state and federal that you can,
• 18:53
  if arts organizations don't think they should have relationships with those
• 18:56
  people that make those decisions, they're losing out on opportunities.
• 19:01
  I will also say that I don't think there's anything more important than advocacy
• 19:05
  for our sector at this moment. Something that we're not very good at,
• 19:09
  in my opinion. And when we do advocate,
• 19:11
  we only really focus on the funding that government can do,
• 19:15
  and that funding is only supporting a small portion of the sector.
• 19:18
  There are other regulatory actions and programmatic actions that our governments
• 19:23
  municipal, state, and federal government can make.
• 19:27
  And so we have to build up that muscle. Listen,
• 19:31
  there are people that are hired by us to make decisions about the
• 19:36
  economy and the budget and the law,
• 19:39
  and the art sector has a minimal relationship with them.
• 19:44
  Government responds for the most part to the pressure of their
• 19:48
  constituencies and their voting bodies.
• 19:51
  And so that is the work we have to do in the next three years.
• 19:54
  We should never let someone be elected to public office without having an arts
• 19:59
  platform. That should never happen again.
• 20:03
  No one should ever decide to cut funding from our budgets because
• 20:08
  we have put that much pressure on them.
• 20:10
  That's absolutely right.
• 20:12
  We are a rare sector from a GDP business standpoint that
• 20:17
  doesn't get the same investment from the government that so many other sectors
• 20:21
  get regardless of where they stand in terms of financial impact for the country.
• 20:27
  Obviously our organization and advocacy is a part of why that's true.
• 20:32
  Do you think there is another reason?
• 20:35
  Why is it in America that arts and culture are not
• 20:39
  treated as other industries and sectors are from
• 20:44
  particularly the federal government's perspective?
• 20:48
  If you are politically weak and
• 20:52
  under-skilled from a business perspective, the market knows it.
• 20:59
  The market responds to what we have done to ourselves.
• 21:04
  And so our job is to become politically strong and get better at business.
• 21:08
  Most other sectors have someone on staff focused on government affairs.
• 21:13
  It's rare for us to do that. It's not an agenda item for staff meetings.
• 21:18
  It's not an agenda item for board meetings.
• 21:21
  We don't engage our patrons in what's happening advocacy wise.
• 21:25
  Sometimes our boards merge partisan politics with
• 21:30
  advocacy and they say,
• 21:31
  we can't get involved in politics even though every other sector is deeply
• 21:35
  involved in politics. So there's a bunch of technical things,
• 21:39
  but I think there is a mindset shift, and this is where it becomes adaptive.
• 21:44
  It's not a surprise that arts organizations are all, for the most part,
• 21:48
  scrappy and artists are starving. But I wonder
• 21:53
  who created that narrative and if we didn't create it ourselves,
• 21:57
  who is perpetuating and perfecting that narrative?
• 22:01
  That is on us.
• 22:02
  That's why I say I think that the things that are wrong with the art sector are
• 22:06
  our fault and we can change it.
• 22:09
  There's no Mighty Mouse or Superman from the outside that's going to come and
• 22:12
  fix our sector. That is our job to do,
• 22:16
  but it's going to require us to change our beliefs and values about political
• 22:20
  engagement and about the value of business in
• 22:24
  amplifying our organizations and our work. Most of us,
• 22:28
  and sometimes we're even taught this,
• 22:30
  that if we learn business and we think about capitalization and
• 22:33
  commercialization, it will erode the quality of the art.
• 22:39
  But there are no longitudinal studies on that. And in fact, talk to Beyonce.
• 22:43
  Every album she puts out gets better and better and better. And so it is a
• 22:47
  myth that we continue to perfect.
• 22:51
  When there are things that we are scared of,
• 22:53
  and I would put things like streaming and AI in there,
• 22:58
  when there are things we're afraid of because we don't have enough information,
• 23:01
  we tend to vilify it, and that holds us back.
• 23:05
  And so I implore people, focus on learning your business skills,
• 23:09
  focus on advocacy, organize,
• 23:12
  start thinking creatively about the things that you need and start talking
• 23:16
  to your legislators en masse together, organized in every single community.
• 23:22
  Can you imagine what this sector would look like in five years, 10 years,
• 23:26
  if we took our creative skills and married them with really solid business
• 23:31
  acumen and really strong political power?
• 23:36
  I am getting geared up just thinking about ways that we can all take action.
• 23:40
  Listen, obviously you are no stranger to the fact that
• 23:46
  there were these significant cuts at the NEA and NEH,
• 23:50
  the potential dismantling of those organizations and IMLS,
• 23:54
  all happening this spring,
• 23:56
  none of which frankly was shocking because of what we knew about the incoming
• 24:01
  administration,
• 24:02
  but all of which organizations were at different levels of preparedness for.
• 24:07
  Massachusetts responded with a pretty sizable investment in arts and
• 24:12
  culture -- I would say an extension of the work you have been doing,
• 24:15
  so it made sense,
• 24:17
  but what do you think is the role of
• 24:22
  state and regional cultural councils right now as they're navigating this moment
• 24:27
  too?
• 24:28
  So some of it depends on their business model.
• 24:31
  I am lucky that Mass Cultural Council is an independent state agency,
• 24:35
  meaning that I'm not part of the executive branch,
• 24:38
  and so that gives me the ability to advocate and ask for what I want and
• 24:43
  need. But I think in general,
• 24:45
  every service organization in the arts has to refocus
• 24:51
  its work on advocacy. I know people are thinking,
• 24:54
  you got to keep the doors open,
• 24:56
  but if you don't carve out time to do advocacy work,
• 24:59
  if you stay on that hamster wheel of insolvency, things will not get better.
• 25:03
  And so I think everyone needs to focus in so that we can become organized and
• 25:07
  show this country and our municipalities in our state how big
• 25:12
  we are and how strong we are, and really start asking for things,
• 25:16
  really start putting policy recommendations in front of them. Again,
• 25:20
  that funding is only supporting a small part of the sector,
• 25:25
  so it's not going to grow the sector. It's not going to stabilize the sector.
• 25:30
  It's just going to support the sector.
• 25:32
  And so this is where I think if we can shift from thinking about government as a
• 25:36
  funder to thinking about government as people that can do regulatory things,
• 25:41
  that can build sustainability.
• 25:43
  There's hundreds of things that government can do for us there,
• 25:47
  thinking about all the programmatic workforce development and economic
• 25:49
  development programs that already exist that we aren't a part of,
• 25:53
  so we can think about how we can be included in those and revise laws and
• 25:58
  amend laws so that we can take advantage of those things.
• 26:01
  There's many things that I think we can do but it's going to require a lot of
• 26:05
  work. And I think in times of fear,
• 26:09
  people just double down on what they know. And in times of fear,
• 26:12
  it's time to change and do something differently.
• 26:17
  Well said.
• 26:18
  If there was one law or cultural policy that you could change tomorrow,
• 26:23
  no debate, no committees, what would that be or what would you implement?
• 26:27
  STEM to STEAM.
• 26:29
  Very good.
• 26:30
  So the STEM world realized about 20 years ago,
• 26:35
  maybe 25 years ago,
• 26:36
  that they were going to have a workforce shortage as those industries were
• 26:41
  growing. And so they got together, they organized,
• 26:46
  and they started putting legislatures all over the country to
• 26:50
  adopt STEM workforce programs so that every kid coming through school
• 26:55
  had to take science, technology, engineering, and math. When that was happening,
• 27:00
  the art sector didn't join the STEM world and push for A
• 27:05
  to be included in those workforce development programs because we tend to
• 27:09
  self-segregate. Another thing that contributes to our insolvency.
• 27:14
  In Massachusetts, in the last 20 years,
• 27:16
  they've invested $3 billion in STEM-related programming
• 27:21
  and infrastructure and workforce development, and we missed out on that.
• 27:25
  So to me, that's the biggest thing that we could do.
• 27:28
  That's a great answer. I'm curious, as you were responding,
• 27:32
  you mentioned that sometimes the arts self-select out or segregate
• 27:37
  themselves from other groupings, clusters, organizations.
• 27:41
  Can you say a little bit more about what you mean by that?
• 27:45
  We do. We don't get in rooms with healthcare,
• 27:47
  even though if you ask a thousand artists in a room,
• 27:51
  how many of you all believe that arts is good for health? Every hand will go up.
• 27:55
  And then you ask them,
• 27:56
  how many of you have been to a healthcare convening in the last year?
• 28:00
  Almost every hand will go down. If you ask,
• 28:04
  how many of y'all think that arts are good for education?
• 28:07
  You'll see every hand go up. And then you'll say,
• 28:09
  how many of y'all went to the school board meeting when they were discussing the
• 28:12
  budget? And every hand will go down. So we self-segregate.
• 28:17
  And then sometimes you'll hear people say, but we weren't invited.
• 28:21
  And then I'll say,
• 28:22
  do you think that the climate community is sitting around saying,
• 28:26
  'Let's not invite the arts, we don't want them there'?
• 28:30
  I've gone to housing meetings and we have so many artists that are
• 28:35
  unhoused or living on people's couches. I'll go to housing meetings and the
• 28:40
  leadership of housing will say to me, Michael, what are you doing here?
• 28:44
  And then I'll say, artists live in houses.
• 28:48
  And they'll have a moment of going like, oh, yeah, right? So we self-segregate.
• 28:52
  And then sometimes we get together in rooms, in convenings,
• 28:56
  in conferences and stuff,
• 28:58
  and we spend most of our time admiring the problem as opposed to
• 29:03
  orienting to solutions. I mean,
• 29:06
  what would happen if every convening was about solutions?
• 29:09
  Not about just sitting around complaining about what we don't have,
• 29:13
  and then those rooms are gathered to share best practices.
• 29:17
  But I'm watching broke theater companies share best practices with
• 29:22
  other broke theater companies. And I go, what are we doing?
• 29:25
  Why don't we have economists in the room, MBAs in the room,
• 29:30
  helping us to solve the problems? So we self-segregate,
• 29:34
  and a lot of it is that they don't understand us, they don't get us.
• 29:37
  But what if we switch that and said, we need to understand them.
• 29:41
  We need to get them. We need to pull them into our world.
• 29:45
  Yeah, that's right. It's --
• 29:47
  A lot of the work that I was doing over the past year or so was about
• 29:52
  this intersection, but particularly with tech -- again,
• 29:55
  an industry that there's a lot of discomfort, concern, hand wringing, et cetera,
• 29:59
  about universally, but certainly in the arts,
• 30:02
  certainly with the kind of acceleration of AI and GenAI,
• 30:06
  and it's this approach that really is what started to make the difference for
• 30:10
  the Center at the time,
• 30:12
  both in our engagement with artists on the topic and engaging
• 30:16
  tech companies in a mutually beneficial exploration of what the future might
• 30:20
  hold.
• 30:21
  But the only way that happened was frankly by me and some colleagues saying,
• 30:25
  we're just going to go start putting ourselves in these spaces.
• 30:29
  We were the only ones there. Which is a shame, as you say,
• 30:33
  because how much more powerful would we have been if there was more collective?
• 30:37
  How much more impactful would it have been that we showed up?
• 30:41
  But the more we can use our voices in spaces that we think maybe
• 30:46
  we don't belong or we're not the primary constituent for,
• 30:49
  the more advantageous it's going to be for the field as a whole.
• 30:52
  So to your point, you can't wait around for the invitation.
• 30:55
  You need to go make the action happen yourself. And sometimes that's hard,
• 30:59
  as you say.
• 31:00
  Yeah, we're leaving resources on the table by self-segregating. Again,
• 31:04
  we do it to ourselves.
• 31:06
  I also think the art sector in particular overestimates threats and
• 31:11
  underestimates opportunities.
• 31:14
  Speak more about that.
• 31:15
  I mean,
• 31:16
  I remember when streaming during COVID was a thing
• 31:21
  and this notion that if we stream art,
• 31:25
  then people won't come to our venues to see it.
• 31:29
  And then I started thinking about,
• 31:31
  what happened to sports when they started streaming sports into people's homes?
• 31:36
  It only increased the love of the sports.
• 31:39
  And what we tried to do was we tried to recreate the live experience streamed
• 31:44
  home. But you can't recreate that. So why do that?
• 31:47
  Why not use all of our creative muscles to design something new when we're
• 31:51
  streaming? And so when you think about sports,
• 31:55
  when you're sitting at home watching a game,
• 31:57
  it's not the same as it would be at a venue, right?
• 32:01
  There's colorful commentation in your ear,
• 32:03
  there is drawing on the screens. The players may have microphones,
• 32:07
  so you can hear their grunting. There are data scrolls and bio popups.
• 32:10
  Instant replays. It's a different experience.
• 32:13
  Absolutely.
• 32:13
  What happens if we explore those opportunities when it comes to the streaming
• 32:18
  that we do? This thing about AI right now, it's not going anywhere.
• 32:22
  There's no sign that it's going to be regulated anytime soon.
• 32:25
  They still haven't regulated social media enough.
• 32:27
  So we need to embrace it and use it to our advantage and know that we have
• 32:32
  creative muscles that can help us take AI to a whole 'nother place
• 32:37
  that benefits us.
• 32:39
  I am so filled with delight and excitement to be hearing your
• 32:44
  leadership in these words in this moment, and I agree completely,
• 32:49
  and I'm here to help move us forward in that direction. Tell me this,
• 32:53
  you grew up in DC. You spent a lot of time in DC in this area.
• 32:57
  What makes Massachusetts and Boston feel like a special place for you to be
• 33:01
  doing this work right now?
• 33:04
  What I love about Massachusetts is that, I mean, we are the state of firsts.
• 33:08
  We've done a lot of things first. First public school, first library,
• 33:12
  first park, first university.
• 33:14
  And so there's a lot of willingness to do things first,
• 33:18
  which I think is so very cool.
• 33:21
  I think Massachusetts is a humanity state.
• 33:24
  Without the humanities and all the history that exists here,
• 33:28
  Massachusetts wouldn't exist. When I knock on doors,
• 33:32
  they open the door. Now,
• 33:35
  it may take a while for them to follow through and do what I need them to do,
• 33:40
  but they're not like, don't knock on my door. They're like, yeah,
• 33:43
  let's talk about this. Let's see what this might be.
• 33:46
  But I've also built up lots of relationships. So I think when I knock,
• 33:50
  people are like, oh, Michael Bobbitt's coming to meet you.
• 33:52
  You need to meet with Michael. Because I've worked really hard.
• 33:55
  People do business with people they know.
• 33:57
  I've worked really hard to build those relationships because the goal is,
• 34:00
  if you've not met me,
• 34:01
  you've heard of me in Massachusetts so that I can do for the sector.
• 34:06
  So I think all those things are the reason why I like it.
• 34:10
  What is one thing that's giving you hope right now when you look at the future
• 34:14
  of arts and culture?
• 34:17
  I think that we're still making art --
• 34:19
  we're still making art that speaks to what's happening in the world,
• 34:22
  and I'm also really excited about the possibilities of arts used as a tool for
• 34:27
  healing and health.
• 34:29
  So seeing that spread and pop up around the country just fills me with joy.
• 34:35
  That's wonderful. So you've given us a lot of good nuggets,
• 34:40
  ideas, action items throughout our conversation.
• 34:44
  For listeners who are inspired by what we've been talking about,
• 34:49
  what's one thing they can do today as soon as this podcast ends to
• 34:54
  help advance for the changes that we're talking about?
• 34:57
  Take the podcast, have it translated in ChatGPT,
• 35:02
  and have ChatGPT give you a list of action steps.
• 35:06
  Ooh, love that.
• 35:07
  Yeah, start somewhere. Start somewhere.
• 35:09
  Three actions you're going to take this week,
• 35:11
  three actions you're going to take next week.
• 35:12
  For the benefit of getting better at business and getting more engaged.
• 35:17
  But if you liked what you heard, don't leave it on the podcast.
• 35:20
  Take it and have it transcribed,
• 35:23
  and then see what action steps your AI can come up with for your staff or
• 35:27
  yourself. It's important that we are always moving towards action.
• 35:32
  That's right. Well, we have come to the end of our conversation,
• 35:37
  which means a few quickfire culture questions, if you are game.
• 35:42
  The first is, what's one piece of culture right now -- a song,
• 35:47
  a book, a performance, a TikTok trend --
• 35:51
  that you're currently obsessed with?
• 35:53
  K-Pop Demon Hunters. Obsessed.
• 35:55
  Yes, absolutely. It's everywhere. And I really,
• 35:59
  Netflix has been doing these live sing-alongs of them,
• 36:02
  and I'm waiting for the first orchestra to chime in and say, here's a moment.
• 36:08
  Here's a collaboration. Here's community.
• 36:10
  Niece introduced me to it. We were jamming out,
• 36:13
  and then I sat home and watched a movie.
• 36:15
  I think I've watched it three times now.
• 36:16
  That's great. It's great. And the music, it's so catchy.
• 36:21
  In my head all the time. If you could go back in time,
• 36:25
  what is one performance, concert,
• 36:27
  or event that you would've wanted to be present at?
• 36:31
  I got to work on an opera with the Washington National Opera and Washington
• 36:35
  Performing Arts Center about Marian Anderson.
• 36:38
  And so I would really go back to the I Have a Dream speech in her performance on
• 36:43
  the March on Washington,
• 36:44
  just to be in there and see how that art
• 36:49
  form could be infused into a social justice
• 36:53
  movement and incite change.
• 36:57
  That would be remarkable. What's one free resource --
• 37:02
  can be in any field --
• 37:03
  that you think everyone should be looking at or checking out?
• 37:06
  So to tackle the business
• 37:11
  acumen issue,
• 37:13
  we're going to have a big summit with the colleges to talk about this issue in
• 37:16
  Massachusetts,
• 37:18
  the need to infuse more business and government civics into their curriculum.
• 37:23
  But I have to figure out what to do for the people that have finished school and
• 37:27
  those that don't have the resources to take class. I'm working with MIT.
• 37:32
  They have a platform called MITx.
• 37:35
  It's sort of their social responsibility platform where they upload free courses
• 37:39
  for everyone.
• 37:40
  So I'm working with them to create a 12 module arts and entrepreneurship
• 37:45
  course. This is based on the Sloan School of Management's pedagogy,
• 37:50
  but the great thing about this is that it will be asynchronous online.
• 37:54
  There'll be synchronous components like study groups and an AI bot if you have
• 37:59
  questions or you're working on your project,
• 38:02
  because you'll be able to do a project through the whole course.
• 38:05
  But the great thing about it is that throughout the course,
• 38:07
  you're going to follow an artist making art.
• 38:11
  It's going to launch in January, hopefully,
• 38:14
  but it's going to be available to everyone in the world. So I would say MITx,
• 38:18
  but also look at all those platforms: Udemy, MITx,
• 38:23
  edX. There's so many free resources.
• 38:25
  If you want to learn a little bit more about how government works or you want to
• 38:28
  learn more skills in business, it's vitally important.
• 38:33
  And then here we are, our CI to Eye moment.
• 38:37
  If you could broadcast one message to executive directors, leadership teams,
• 38:42
  staff, and boards of thousands of arts organizations right now,
• 38:46
  what would that message be?
• 38:50
  There's nothing more important than advocacy in this moment for this sector.
• 38:55
  Absolutely nothing.
• 38:57
  Well, let's get organized.
• 39:00
  Let's start really pushing forward and pushing on our previous expectations of
• 39:04
  what this industry can do. Michael,
• 39:07
  it has been such a pleasure and an inspiration to talk to you,
• 39:11
  and I can't wait to keep following your lead and to keep leading
• 39:16
  alongside.
• 39:17
  Same. It's an honor to be here,
• 39:19
  and I'm extremely flattered to have the opportunity. So thank you.
• 39:23
  The honor's ours. Thank you so much.
• 39:34
  Thank you for listening to CI to Eye with Monica Holt.
• 39:38
  If you enjoyed today's conversation,
• 39:39
  please take a moment to rate us or leave a review.
• 39:42
  A nice comment goes a long way in helping other people discover the show and
• 39:46
  hear from leaders in the arts and beyond. If you haven't already,
• 39:50
  please click the subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts.
• 39:53
  We've got some pretty incredible episodes coming your way,
• 39:55
  and I wouldn't want you to miss them.
• 39:57
  This episode was edited and produced by Karen McConarty and co-written by
• 40:02
  Karen McConarty and myself, Monica Holt.
• 40:05
  Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are our incredible designers and video editors.
• 40:10
  Our music is by whoisuzo.
• 40:13
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• 40:17
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• 40:22
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• 40:26
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• 40:28
  and you can always reach out to let us know who you'd like to hear next from on
• 40:32
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