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CULT MOM LORI VALLOW: Children's Blood on PICKAXE? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece cult Mom that should ring
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: a bell? Laurie Valo and I think her fourth husband,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the prophet Chad Daybell, the doomster. Remember his wife died,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Oh what a cowinkie dink in her sleep after he
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: predicted her death. Now both of them must be clairvoyant,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: because a couple of weeks before Tammy day Bell died
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: in her sleep, lying beside Chad day Bell caught my
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Laurie Valo, who's sleeping with day Belle, decided she would
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: order a beach b e ac, a beach wedding dress
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and a ring before Tammy day Belle died. And guess what.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: A couple of weeks later, after Tammy was dead and buried,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: she called mom. Laurie Valleo marries Chad day Belle in
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: the Scout motto be prepared and boy wise. She but
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: more concerning the deaths and the dismemberment of her own children.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: JJ entirely we're waiting for trial, but in the last
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: hours a stunning move by the state. I mean, see Grace,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious X one eleven. What
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: could be more stunning than we already know the remains
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  Speaker 1: of these children, one dismembered, burned, buried in a pet
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  Speaker 1: cemetery out in back of a farmhouse. The otherly hermetically sealed,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: still wearing his pj's that he had on when he
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  Speaker 1: was murdered. Take a listen right now to our cut
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: eighty seven our friend Nate eight ace Idahoones a motion
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: that has been filed by the prosecution in the Chat
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  Speaker 1: and Laurie day Bel cases. This motion was filed in
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  Speaker 1: both cases and prosecutors are asking that DNA testing be
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: performed on a few things that were found at Chad
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: day Bel's property. A shovel, a pickaxe, a DNA testing
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: under JJ's fingernails, tape, the duct tape that was surrounding
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  Speaker 1: him testing on that, and I believe one or two
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: other things I can't recall at the top of my head,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: but they're what they're asking is they want the State
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: lab or someone a DNA expert to do consumptive DNA
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  Speaker 1: testing on that. What that means is that when they
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: go in and do the test, they test all the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: DNA at once, so that after it's done, there's no
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: more DNA to test, So basically you kind of have
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: one shot at it, and that's the reason why, most
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: likely the prosecution has waited this long to do it.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a really good reason for
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: waiting that long to do it. But before we rush
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: into a technical discussion of DNA, DAX and ribo niclak acid,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: let me take that in. Let me take that in.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: What Nate Eaton just reported. If you don't know who
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Nate Eating is, you got to be living under a
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: rot in a cave Nate eating. If you'll recall calt Mom,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Laurie Valo immediately goes to Hawaii, Mary Schad Day Bell
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: and then everybody realizes is wow, the children are missing.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: They're not where she said they were. Eaton flies over
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: to Hawaii, and every time Laurie Value comes out of
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: the plush condo, she's staring with her new husband. You
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: see his hand in the picture running along with life
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: or going hey, hey, hey, hey, where are your children yet?
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Any idea where JJ is? Wrist? Tyewey, what's happening? Did
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: you get married? What's going on? His hand became famous
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: before he was but this is him talking and he says,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: this is my point DNA. What does that mean? Blood,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: human tissue, Maybe it's brain matter, maybe it's muscle. DNA
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: on a shovel, a pickaxe under the little boy JJ,
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  Speaker 1: seven years old, under his fingernails on tape, on the
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: duct tape that had been wrapped around him like an
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Egyptian mummy. Think about what they're looking for. They're looking
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: for these children, JJ Entilely's blood, their muscle, their soft tissue,
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  Speaker 1: they're fat, their skin, their hair on a pickaxe on
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  Speaker 1: a shovel. Sometimes there are no words to describe the
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: evil in our world, and the only thing we can
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: do is fight it. Just fight. It is joining me
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: right now in All Star Palem, But I want to
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: start with Nate Eaton joining us. He's the news director
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: at east News dot com on Twitter, you can find
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: them at Nate News Now. Nate Eaton, explain what you're saying,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: because I believe there's a way around this. You're saying
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  Speaker 1: that if they do these tests, they'll use up the
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  Speaker 1: DNA well on these specific items. So the items we're
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: talking about, the hairs on the duct tape. WHOA wait
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: a minute, hold on, because I don't like what you
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: just said. When we were quoting you. You said other
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  Speaker 1: items I can't recall. Okay, you're the news director. You're
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: supposed to tell us all the items. Okay, so let's
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: start at the get go. Hair on duct tape. That
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. If duct tape was wrapped around his head.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of Kelley. You know, Top Mom's little girl, Casey.
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  Speaker 1: Anthony's a little girl that had duct tape across her mouth.
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  Speaker 1: So they're looking for hair on the duct tape that
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  Speaker 1: was wrapped around JJ. Okay, go ahead. I'm making a
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: chart here, so I'm writing as quickly as I can't.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, Nate, okay, and then rich detail with your
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: fingerprints on the tape associated with j J body. I'm
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: really surprised I haven't already done that. Hold on, So
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: basically fingerprints and if you don't get a whole print,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: and we'll go to Joe, Scott and Morgan just a
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: moment on this, you can get a partial print, Nate,
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  Speaker 1: have you ever really looked at a blow up of
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  Speaker 1: a known print. Let's just say Chad day Bell's print
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: a known print. You take his fingerprint when he's booked in.
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  Speaker 1: That's your known print compared to the other print, the
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  Speaker 1: latent print, which is found on a window, or driving
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: steering wheel or a door, but in this case on
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: duct tape. If it's amazing, you look for ten twenty
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  Speaker 1: or more similarities in the swirls, and every person has
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: their own set of swirls. Nobody has one like it.
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  Speaker 1: You know what I like to do. I like to
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  Speaker 1: make a postcard, a black and white postcard of the
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  Speaker 1: known print and a latent print is picked up off
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  Speaker 1: the duct tape. Blow up pictures side by side on
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  Speaker 1: a glossy postcard, and circle in red similarities and hand
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: those out to the garars. Kind of a keepsake. Awesome, Okay,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: back to you ridge detail on the duct tape. Also,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: you mentioned the pickaxe and the shovel. They're looking for
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: small dark on the handles, and these were tools that
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: were in Chad day Bell's barn right there, right near
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  Speaker 1: where the kids were found. Small dark spots. You mean,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: hasn't already been tested from law? Well, the prosecution tried
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to test all of these things back in early twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty one, but the defense attorneys immediately objected. They didn't
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  Speaker 1: want it done. They didn't want to consumptive DNA testing
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  Speaker 1: done means they were worried that it would use it
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  Speaker 1: all up. And then Laurie became incompetent, So everything kind
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of got put on hold. Why you just pought my
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: earpiece out when you said that Laurie became incompetent. Why
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: do you say things like that? Nate eight. And she
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: did not become incompetent. She has been later declared competent.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: What was that anyway? Was she acting crazy? Well, according
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: to the court, yes she was, and so she went
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: to a state hospital for about ten months, was declared
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: competent earlier this year, and so now now we're seeing
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of progress in the case. Things are moving forward. Way,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: were her crazy wacko religious beliefs? Her quote incompetence was
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: that where they were getting that she was incompetent, they
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: had all of that is steel, but could assume that
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: the religious delusions as they were calling them, were part
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  Speaker 1: of her incompetency. She did go to the state mental
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: hospital for ten months where the inmate where she was
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: able to wear normal clothes, she wasn't in handcuffs, she
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: wasn't in a cell, she was able to eat well.
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  Speaker 1: They did some psychological tests on her. She was able
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to do her hair and makeup. I didn't know I
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: was gonna have to bring a shrink this quickly. But
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrists were now psychiatrists, joining us out
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Angela Angela Arnold, MD, dot com
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  Speaker 1: dit or Angie, Please, if your mental illness is cured
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  Speaker 1: by some new clothes and makeup, you're not mentally ill.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Please just have a shopping day at them all and
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: you're fine. Just one. It's not incompetent. That's a lot, Jackie.
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  Speaker 1: You have to pull up best of their wacky, crazy beliefs.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Remember all of that. But bizarro, what about that, doctor Angie?
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  Speaker 1: In a nutshell? I gotta get back to the DNA.
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  Speaker 1: This woman is full of cluster b diagnoses, okay, but
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that they do not make you incompetent. All right. She
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: has lots of personality disorders, but none of those make
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  Speaker 1: her incompetent. I think her biggest issue is she's very manipulative.
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  Speaker 1: You know what, doctor Angie, I've just got to say.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, hosted today
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: with doctor Wendy KCBQ Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. That's
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  Speaker 1: bs bottom line, everything that makes her a horrible person.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Angie says as a personality disorder, she's cruel, she's heartless,
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  Speaker 1: she's self centered. She cares more about landing the next
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  Speaker 1: husband than she does about her children. Doctor Angie can
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: put perfect on the pig all she wants to, but
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  Speaker 1: this just makes her, in my mind, the devil's meaning.
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  Speaker 1: She is Satan's mistress. There you go, That's what goes
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: on the postcard. After this trial will handles out to
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  Speaker 1: the jurors. But that conclusion will be arrived at by
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: looking at her conduct, by looking at her intentional conduct,
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  Speaker 1: the sophistication of it, the deliberation, everything that goes into
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  Speaker 1: proving something was knowing and intentional and not the product
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  Speaker 1: of incompetence or insanity legally or anything else. And that's
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  Speaker 1: no doubt the way the trial is going to be
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  Speaker 1: conducted now that whatever that was about. You know, you
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  Speaker 1: and I've had tons of cases where people have been
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  Speaker 1: by a court declared unfit to stand trial, and then,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: of course very quickly sometimes there they are back in action.
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  Speaker 1: One of the things I suppose will develop in this
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: particular case is why the investigation stopped when she was
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  Speaker 1: declared incompetent. Why didn't it simply continue in the interim.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: But you're right, you know, actions bee louder than words,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace, Nate eat nothing. Maybe the
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  Speaker 1: delay wasn't just for her to finally get deemed competent,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: but because we were in the throes of COVID during
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: a lot of this, and nobody was rushing into the
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: crime lab to look at samples. But hey, you just
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: says something that really hit home. You hit a home
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: run again, Wendy Patrick. Do you remember Nate eating and
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: one cult mom's court appearances? Didn't she create lip gloss
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  Speaker 1: out of something behind bars and had her hair and
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: mermaid curls and had her toe nails polished while she's
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: in court talking about her murdered and dismembered and bird
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: charred children. I mean that it reminded me of Jodi Aris,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: who would always have her hair and make it, who
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: also shot a bird at me in court, always be
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: completely perfect with all our makeup and hair and blah blah,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: and then go in court to look at pictures off
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: her lover. They started rotting in the shower where she
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: left him. I mean, reality check, didn't she make her
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: own lip gloss? Yeah, with the help of a Jolly rancher.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: It was a Jolly rancher. Okay, I'd like to talk
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: about Dax Surivo. Ni Lake asked her, with you, doctor
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: cheryla point, but hold on, I need to hear about
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the jolly rancher lip gloss. What what did you just say,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: because I would totally totally argue that an opening statement.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: She's more concerned about her lip gloss than her dead children.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Please tell me the joy Rancher punchline. This was her
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: very first court appearance in Idaho after they flew her
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: back from Hawaii, her Hawaiian honeymoon. Okay, she walks in
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the courtroom with pink handcuffs on, and she's got bright
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: pink red lipstick that we later learned the jail inmates
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: will take Jolly Rancher as they get from the commissary,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: mix it with water and then they'll apply that to
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: their lips. And if Yeah, her hair was curl that
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: had the mermaid curls. And she walked in there and
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: sat down and acted like she didn't have a care
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: in the world. Okay, doctor Angie, go on, put perfume
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: on that pig. What's her personality disorder? Narcissism, histrionic. I
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: know all of your terms, doctor Angie. I don't know
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: what they mean, but I know them well. Nancy. I
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: think that people. I think that all of your viewers
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: want want to know if Laurie Valo, what is driving her?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Why is she the way she is? And so that's
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: why I bring up these different personality disorders that I
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: believe that she exhibits. Okay, well wait, you're not asking
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: why is she the way she is? Don't tell me.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: You're going to go all the way back. My mommy
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: spanked me when I killed the dog. My daddy ignored me.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. You know what. No, don't care, do
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: not care. All I care about it's why these children
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: are dead. But I will give you a tiny peek
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and too. There's got to be pots and pants beating
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: against each other in her head. I want you to
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: listen to Campower, her friend from our Arizona Family TV religion.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: This is on their religion. In October twenty eighteen, Laurie
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: was speaking at some sort of religious gathering. She was
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: telling the group of people there that about her firsthand
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: experiences with God and with spirits, but she started off
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: by telling them about the issues she had with her
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: ex husband, Joseph Ryan, and how she wanted to kill him.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry saying that I am a personal witness of
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the resurrected Jesus Christ, I am his advocate, and I
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: am his friend. Laurie Vallo has dubbed herself a devout
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: In court documents and police reports, she talks about how
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: she's put on this earth to gather people for the
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: second Coming of Christ. The time is now, the Lord
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: is gather they're his people. He is calling people to
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: one hundred and forty four one thousand. They're already being called.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: They're already being sent on their missions. And I guess
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: her mission was to murder her children. Now, the Mormons
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: took great pains to disassociate themselves from this fringe group
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: that Laurie Valo was in, and that was Kim Powell
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: speaking from Arizona Family TV Nate Eaton. The religious beliefs
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: were even more bizarre. She insists that her Basically anybody
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: she doesn't like has been possessed by a demon. She
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: even has names for the demons, and they can't be repossessed,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: they can't be cured, so she has to kill them.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: That's part of her religion. As I recall, that's a yes, no,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Nate Eaton, Okay, I want to go now to special
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: guests joining us in addition to Nate, doctor Angie Wendy Patrick,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Jessicat Morgan is with US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and host
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: of a brand new hit series on iHeart Body Bags
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: with Joe Scott Morgan. And to Shara La Point, genetic genealogist,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: author of The Gene Hunter ge n E and founder
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: founder of the gene Hunter dot com. Shara, we heard
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Nate Eaton describe a consumptive DNA test. Isn't it true
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: that there are some methods by which, when you have
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: a very small amount of DNA, that DNA chain can
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: be replicated or grown so you have a greater amount
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: of DNA. Yes, ma'am. With technic technology today, it's possible
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: to do that. It's possible to actually do full genome
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: sequencing and with that information we can actually use that
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: to replicate DNA. In this case, I believe they're looking
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: for DNA evidence that's going to prove who who was
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: there when the murderers occurred, And with all of all
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: of the things that they have to DNA tests, they
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: want to at one time test all of this. But
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: just like you said, I believe it's possible that there
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: is technology out there that you can test these items
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: and you don't have to use all of all of
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: the items at one time. And Cheryl la Point joining
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: me and guys, you got to really listen carefully what
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: she says because she'll go and to work for and
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: you have to really dissect each word. Joe Scott the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: same way because it does sound very technical. But Chery
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: La Point, you and I have talked a lot about
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: there's a group, isn't it, Jackie Authorram Labs. There are
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: labs like authram that deal with degenerated DNA DNA that
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: has been contaminated, like been out in dirt or rain
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: or in bad conditions, and that is one of their specialties,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: aren't their labs that specialize and extracting let me say,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: criminal DNA when they're really bad circumstances, like the DNA
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: is really old, you find a skull that's been out
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: in the desert for twenty five years, or the DNA
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: has been underwater or in mud, or just all sorts
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: of concerning circumstances as it relates to getting a good
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: DNA sapple. There are labs that specialize in that, absolutely, Nancy.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: And you know these cases are being solved, multiple cases
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: every week now, so you know they really I believe that,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: you know, the prostitution should look at maybe going with
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: a private lab that can preserve some of the DNA,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: maybe not use all of it in case, you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: there's a reason that further testing is needed. You know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: we have fingernails. You know, they swabbed the fingernails bearing
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: an autopsy. I mean we've talked about that before. Absolutely,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: you know, if this poor child thought when he was
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: being murdered, it's very possible that he scratched someone and
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: they can test back. Nate Eton, did you hear what
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Sheryl all Point, our genetic genealogist and author, just said.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: She said that they want to test for who Tessie's
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: and it's a shovel in a pickaxe, which really shouldn't
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: even be in the same sentence as your child that's
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: passed on. But for who may have tested for who
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: may have been there at the time of the death?
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: What does that mean? What exactly is the state looking for?
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I would have assumed that the state was looking for
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the children's DNA when they were dismembered or murdered on
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that or shovel. Well, yeah, that I're gonna look for
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: the children's DNA, But also who was holding that shovel,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: who was holding that pickaxe? Now one can assume and
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: the tape, and one can assume that Chad's DNA, Chad
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Davel's DNA will be on that because it was his.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Then he maybe used those tools for other other things.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: But will Alex Cox's DNA beyond that? Will Laurie vallows
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: DNA beyond that? What's interesting to me, Nancy, and all
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: of this and all of the public records, is that
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: all of the DNA they're collecting is from the remains
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of JJ. They have not mentioned collecting any DNA from
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Tyley's and from what we have heard is that because
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: there's not much left, those officers had to sift through
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: dirt to try to find any remain or any of
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: her remains, anything belonging to her. It was finally a
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: piece of tissue that they were able to identify her with.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: So they're they're hopeful that they can get as much
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: as they can off of jj remains off of his
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: body because they don't have much to work with on Tyly.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Inter Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensic's Jackson State University. What
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Nate Eaton said is absolutely correct, and I would like
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: you to explain to our listeners and viewers why we
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: can't get DNA regarding Tylely, the teen girl who was
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: just at that time starting to say no mom and
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: fight back with mommy and then whoops, I guess the
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: demon got enter and she had to be killed. Yeah,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: well that yeah, yeah, and you know it's so gruesome.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: What did In fact, at least it has been implied
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: to this point, we don't have all of the details
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: about Tyley, but we do know that, you know, you
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: were talking about the DNA sample a few months ago.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: We would you refer to that as degraded. Hers is
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: greatly degraded to the point where it's almost non existent.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: From a criminal standpoint and anything that you're going to
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: lift out of there as far as trace elements. So
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: what happened to her body? What did this child? And
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: post mortem? Yeah, and I think that you know, when
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: we begin to think about and as horrible as this is,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: but when we begin to think about the aspect of dismemberment,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Nancy depended upon the amount of skeletal remain that they
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: found on her that we might be able to match
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: up tool marks, if they have some kind of instrument
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: that was used in order to conduct this dismemberment that
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: they keep it keeps coming up in the conversation. But
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: to a broader point when you think about JJ, and
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I brought this up several times along the way, there's
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: this memorialization that took place with him that didn't happen
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: with her. It was it was just horrific with her
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: to the point where they completely got rid of her remains.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: But with JJ, he might hold all of the answers
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: to this case. You know, you you mentioned hair just
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: a moment our Nate did, which I found quite fascinating
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: on the surface of this tape, not just that, but
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: the latent print which we would refer to on the
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: surface of that tape that he's the side of the tape.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: That's called a plastic print, which it leaves this impression.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: It's not like a print that you would commonly see
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: on a smooth surface, but literally it's adherent and you
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: can actually appreciate ridge detail and these sorts of things,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and we can classify that and that'll be tied back
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: to a specific person. But the hair, the hair if
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: that touched, say, for instance, the hair on the perpetrator's
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: arm and it pulled loose or on their hair on
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: their head. Remember, we shed hair, we shed skin. All
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: these things are going to be at heer about epiphilial
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: skin cells. I mean, by the time you take a
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: piece of duct tape and you rip it off and
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: then you wrap it around something, I've got to believe
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: that your epiphilial or skin cells are on that piece
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of duct tape. Yeah, we we shed roughly about one
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand some people say skin cell and that's a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: ru festiment. Skin sales per day. I mean, there's a
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: whole market built on skin loans and whatnot for dry skin.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: That's just what you can see. The stuff that's invisible.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: It kind of floats around again, that goes back to
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: touch DNA. But wouldn't it be fascinating How did you
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: cut the duct tape? You know a lot of people
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: will take duct tape and put it in their mouth
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and tear it. I wonder if that's if that's an issue,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and then if that comes in contact, would say, And
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: it's the most passive thing that can happen in these
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: circumstances where you don't realize you're transferring your own DNA
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to these surfaces. And for me, that's quite fascinating. The
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: instruments themselves, you know, that's going to be a bit
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: tougher to get because in the Morgue we actually do
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: blood cards where we'll take a drop of blood and
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: put it onto a card and we retain that, but
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: it's retained in a very environmentally secure environment. Okay, with
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: these these instruments, oh my gosh, those are gonna be dried.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And if it is blood, and I'm hoping that they
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: have established that without destroying the sample. If it is
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: blood and they extract that, well that's you know, did
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the perpetrators hurt themselves? Had they been hurt? Did they
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: drip blood or is this blood that has been transferred.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I just had an idea Number one, J Scott, you
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: know what I'd like to see you do. I'd like
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: to see you do a whole issue on body bags
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: regarding specifically with this most recent motion by the state
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: and what we think they may obtain specifically forensic just
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: focused on the forensics and to share all the point
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: joining me genetic genealogist and author. We've talked about what
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: consumptive DNA tests are. You consume, You consume it all,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: there's nothing left to test about how in many cases
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: contaminated DNA, even in small amounts, can be regenerated replicated. Oh,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: what's a good example. What is that creature Jackie that
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: can grow or can do it? It's tail falls off,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: it can grow another tail. A jellyfish can live forever
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: because it regenerates. Same thing with DNA. You take a
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: little and you can recreate it in the lab to
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: give you enough DNA to make the test. But share point.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Can we talk about epiphilial cell DNA as it relates
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: to this duct tape. Any chance that we could get
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: the killers skin cells or what about what about JJ's pajamas,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Could there be fiber or skin cells or hair on
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: his pajamas because he was basically hermetically sealed like a mummy.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: What do you think about epiphilial cells on the duct
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: tape of the perp or possibly chase evidence left behind
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: on the pj's of JJ. You know there may be
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: DNA on those pjs, but just because it's on pj's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that that's the person who. Hey, you
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: know what, I'll take those odds, Cheryl a point who's
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: not only a genetic genial just but apparently a lawyer
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: as well. I'll take that. You show me, You show
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: me Chad day Bells, EPI filial or hair and filial
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: cells or hair on JJ's pj's. You put that to
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: a Jerry, the pj's he's wearing when he is murdered
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: and buried. I'll take it, and I will run with it.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. But you know, thinking about duck Tate, Nancy,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I when I use duck Tate, of course, my husband
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: fixes everything with duck tape, but I cannot. I have
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: a hard time dealing with duck Tate by myself. It
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: almost takes two people. Okay, I have a hard time
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: relating to you. You You must have some really nice fingernails, okay,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: because I can rip it off just like that, just
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: all the time. But you think we could get skin cells,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: not just fingerprints, but skin cell off that duct tape.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and evidently there was hair on some of
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: this duct tape. And again, you know it's not so easy.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I actually had that conversation with doctor Nilman last week
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: about hair. Um. You know, it's it's the roots there.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Of course, you have a nucleus and it's easier to
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: find DNA, but if it's just a shaft of hair.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: It actually, since twenty nineteen, you know, there's a technique
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: that can be used. That's who identify that hair. That's right.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have a nucleus or the root
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: of the hair anymore. Which I know we're getting away, way, way,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: way deep in forensics, but this is a huge, huge happening.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: All jump in and talk regular people talk plays. I
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: beg you listen when we begin to think of Lori
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: and that her proclivity for her beauty and coloring her hair.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: You know what's really fascinating about hair forensics is that,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: you know, when we examine hair the mythology of it,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: we can actually pick up on dies. Did you say morphology? Yeah,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: there morphing, it's nature such as in again the taught
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: mom case hair from Kelly was found in the card trunk.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: The defense tried to argue, well, maybe because it's only
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: mitochondrial DNA, it could be taught mom Casey Anthony's or
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: even her mother, Cindy Anthony's. But the reality is both
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: of those treated their hair, they colored their hair, whereas
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Kayley did not, and the hair and the trunk was uncolored,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: which means it was Kyley's hair. Is that what you're saying, Yes,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I am, and I think that'd be fascinating if that
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: was a hair. The Sharon jumping in, No, this is WITNYA.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I would call all of this forensic storytelling. This is
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: what I would darry it in front of the jury
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: because it's so important. We're talking about evidence providing a
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: narrative that the victims cannot. And then after we'd laid
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: it all out through all experts, like the other panelists,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: we would say, the only reasonable interpretation of everything we've
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: heard points to guilt. So this is s fascinating and
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: it's not in the weeds. It's actually the type of
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: thing that will see blank what some of our jurors
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: are used to hearing our shows like BFI Time Stories
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Hey, guys, take a listen to our
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: cut eighty nine. This is our friend Knight at east Es.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Most likely they will want a representative from their team
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: in the lab when the testing is done, or excuse me,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the one a photographer with a video camera in that
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: lab when the test is testing is being done. That
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: will be up to the judge to decide how that happens. However,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: with this motion that was filed today, there was a
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: statement filed by a lady who works at the lab
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: saying that they don't want a camera in there, and
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: they don't want any else in there. There could be
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: some worry that the DNA could be contaminated if you
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: have a camera in there, if you have somebody else
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: in there. So they are saying that it's best not
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: to at the State lab. So now it could be
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: moved to a private lab. No, no, no, no, Nate eaton, first,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I was going to talk to you about the irony
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: of the defense. Okay, So according to the State Chad Day,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Belle and Laurie Valo cult mom take part in murdering
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: her children. Now they're insisting that there is a camera
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: when the DNA on the pickaxe is being tested. That's
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: you know, wow, they got a nerve, right, But you
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: know what, I'd be mad if they didn't, and the
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: crime better suck it up and put a camera in there.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: It can even be a robotic camera that at a
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: distance is not going to take the DNA all right,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: that's not going to happen. So if they can't handle it,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: then it needs to go to a private lab that
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: can handle it. I mean, Chryl a point. How could
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a robotic camera in the distance tain't the DNA? Nancy.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I've been inside for instance, of Offer and Labs. This
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: testing is all done behind glass. You you cannot just
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: walk into the area where they're doing this DNA testing,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: but you could stand behind the glass wall and video
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: what's going on. I don't know how their lab is
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: set up, and you know, I can kind of understand
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the taining of the DNA, but honestly, there are ways
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: around this, you darn right, Cheryl A point. They may
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: need to bring you on of council to explain to
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: them that it can't be done. If the defense wants
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: a video, Fine, half a video. I don't think anybody
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: needs to pull a trick to prove that these children
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: were murdered by Daybell and Valoe in some way or
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the other. Yeahs, let's bring it home to what we're
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: really talking about. Take a less an hour cut forty
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: six at Chad day Bell's preliminary hearing. You're a hearing detective,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: right from a ceot on the stand. They removed some
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: soil and there was a Once they removed some soil,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: there was a a black what I can best describe
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: as a black plastic bag with a round object protruding
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: through the dirt. Okay, what did you observe the r
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: team do after you saw that? They dug a little
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: bit more around the round object, which appeared to me
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: to be the crown of a head protruding through the dirt.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: They used a small sharp instrument to cut through the
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: black plastic. There was a white plastic underneath the black plastic,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: and they also used the white instrument to cut through
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: the white plastic. Okay, and what did you observe when
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: they did that? I observed what looked to be brown
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: human hair. Well, they'll stop there. Take listen to to
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: take to herma CEO and our cut forty nine. The
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: emmy grabbed a small sharp instrument and cut down the
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: middle of the black plastic. Okay, and what did you observe?
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I observed a small child in red pajamas, red pajama shirt,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: red pajama pants, black socks that had the words sketchers
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: in orange across the toes. Also observed a light and
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: blue blanket that had been placed on top of them. Okay, Detective,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: were there when you observed what you perceived to be
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: a child? Where there was there anything that drew your attention? Yes?
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Can describe one of you described for the court what
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: drew your attention the amount of duct tape that was
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: covering the body. That's j J. They're hearing about him
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: and his pajamas and his socks. But what about tiling
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: the tame girl? Take a listen, I cut forty eight.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Detective from a CEO. While you were in that area,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: did you have a chance to further observe art excavate
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: that area you preferred to as the pet cemetery? Yes, okay,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: what did you observe? I had been away from that area,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: but when I returned to that area. They had already
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: dug down and located what a what would appeared to
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: be a mass of burnt flesh and charred bone. That's
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: what's left of their team girl, burnt flesh and charred bone.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: According to the state they did that. Now, let me
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: go back to Nate eaton our star from East Idaho
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: News dot Com. Nate. One of the Purps is in
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Fremont County Jail. One is in Madison County Jail. Is
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: it correct that today Laurie Valo had hot cereal with
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: butter and sugar. That sounds like cream of wheat or oatmeal,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: baked ham, turkey ham pancake, bake with syrup, whipped margarine,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: and fortified drink plus fruit. Is that right? That sounds
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: about right. I don't know the specific menu today, I'm
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: reading it. Trust me, I do trust you. What I
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: do know is that the jail that Laurie is in,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it has the best jail suit in the state. They
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: have a full service kitchen, They have a chef. They
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: do homemade bread, fresh fruit. You mean like Oprah. They
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: have a chef. I don't think it's as good as
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Oprah chefs, but they do have a You have a chef,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I don't have. I don't have a chef. And I'm
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: hearing about Tyley who is nothing but tissue and charred bones.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: And she is sitting at a table having a meal
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: prepared by a chef. Don't they also have fresh baked
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: bread every day? They do? Then the meals are so
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: good at this jail that the staffs often go down
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: and eat eat lunch. And then let's talk about a
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: day bell that poc fruit juice, high fiber, Ralston chicken, sausage,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: biscuits with gravy, fresh fruit, sugar, substitute milk, coffee, peeb
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: and jake. He gets all that from breakfast? Am I hearing?
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Biscuits with sausage and gravy. I had a cup of
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: tea with cashing milk in it, and he's got biscuits
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: with sausage and gravy. How does this happen? Am I
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: in bizarre Land? Do you know what that is? My
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: son was obsessed with? I guess it was Superman. Could
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: have been Batman who would go to another world and
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: fight his nemesis Bizarro, who lived in bizarro landon everything
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: was bass ackwards and upside down Why is he getting
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: chicken sausage and gravy and biscuits? What did you have?
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: We haven't had anything. Why is this happening? And that's
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: a great question, Nancy. I know that the there have
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: been lawsuits over the years about inmates being fed properly
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: nutritional standards. Woo woa, whoa wait waite what nutritional standards?
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: You know? Are they climbing that there's not enough vitamin
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: C and they shaken a biscuit? That could be a claim.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the specifics on in the past,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: but these gels have to have certain standards of what
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: they feed the inmates, make sure they're fed X amount
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: of times per day. And Laurie definitely is well taken
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: care of. She can have good food now, and I
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: have heard from reliable sources that she has complimented how
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: good the food is at the facility and that it's
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: much better there compared to the state hospital where Okay, stop,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: you're actually making my head hurt. Laurie Valoe has a chef.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: He makes her fresh baked bread. And I'm hearing about
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: the remnants of Tyley's body, charred bones and fat tissue
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: just buried in a pet cemetery. You know what. I
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: pray that Sheryl Appoint is right and that this DNA
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: can be replicated, regenerated so we get a positive result.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, Think