Latest / Bedtime Stories / Joe Rogan Experience 2440 Matt Damon Ben Affleck

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Joe Rogan Experience 2440 Matt Damon Ben Affleck · Bedtime Stories

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: by night, all day.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: That's wild. I went in because I came in from Miami.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: I think I was living at the time and I
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: went in and, uh, and, uh, I'm sitting in the
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: waiting room and it was like on a Sunday because
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: it was, I was like, I'm only in town for you.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: And Stan was like, I'll come into the office. I'm like,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: thank you so much. I had to have some, a
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: filling or whatever I needed. It's a kind of an emergency.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: So I'm sitting in the thing and, uh, And I'm
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: not getting called in, but the ladies are just, no, no,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: there's not even a receptionist. And Stan comes out with
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: his mask on. No, the first thing I hear is,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: pig fucker, fucking pig fucker. And I'm like, what is
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: happening in there? It's in the other room. And Stan
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: comes in with his mask on. He goes, sorry. He goes,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I'll be with you soon. He goes, I got Hunter
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: in the chair. And he goes back. And I hear,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: listen to Hunter Thompson swear for like 15 minutes. I'm like,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: this is amazing. And then Stan goes, okay, come on back.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: And Hunter's kind of getting out. And he goes, oh,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: you're sitting down with this guy? He's a fucking assassin.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: And then he goes, and he's got this jug of
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: clear fluid. And he's like, you're gonna need a sip
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: of this. And I'm like, oh my God, this is
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: fucking Hunter S. Thompson's moonshine. I'm like, this is fucking amazing.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I've talked to this dude for 30 seconds
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: and I'm getting a sip. And it was like 10
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: in the morning on a Sunday.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: He was halfway through the jug. It was just pure burn,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: like catch fire.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Where was this?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: In Beverly Hills. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Brentwood. Yeah, Brentwood was
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Stan's office.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. That's amazing.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It really was amazing. So I had probably a total
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: of seven minutes with him, and it was like I
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: could not have been a better seven minutes.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: That's incredible. I went to the Woody Creek Tavern just
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to go there because I know he used to go there.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: And you could feel him in the building. You know,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: there's all the pictures in the walls. It's a cool
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: little place.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, those books, fucking Hell's Angels and, you know,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Fear and Loathing is some of the best writing.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I just fucking, like, he really had his own voice.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Rum Diary is spectacular.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: You know, it was, like, really descriptive and punchy and
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: fucking interesting and fucked up.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: And he also just lived that life.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Fear and Loathing changed my life. Like, reading that book
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: was like. What the fuck? Like, what is this guy doing?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: These grown men out there. Balding, grown men with spectacles
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: running around with them.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: There's lizards in the fucking lounge. Like, you guys are hallucinating.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: He's got a day trip bag filled with acid. Like,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: what the fuck are you doing, man?
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: And it's great shit.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: It's like you fucking feel like you're on the adventure
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: with him, you know?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: No, it's like. It's interesting to watch the evolution of
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: his writing, too. I read Hell's Angels, and it's very different.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: That's early.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: He's kind of restrained. For that, I think it was
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: edgy sort of for the time.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: You're going to get beaten, chain whipped, and stomped by
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: the angels, and that was really edgy.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: By the time they got into what it was, Fear
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: and Loathing in 72 or something like that.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: He was just out there.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was gone.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: He found his voice. He did find his voice.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: He was supposed to be covering a race for, like,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated. That's a fear-loathing Las Vegas game problem.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I fucking lost my mind.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Great. It's great, Hunter.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: We'll take it. Well, hey, it's very nice to meet
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: you guys. I've met you before, but it's very nice
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: to meet you. It's a pleasure, man. Thank you very much.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I love the fucking movie. The rip is great. It's
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: really good. It's so original, and it's so different. You know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: it's like I love those kind of movies, but it's
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: not like any one that I've ever seen before. Really
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: solid movie.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Thanks, dude. Thank you.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: It was awesome.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: So much better than you hating it and us having sex.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: The interviews where they're like, so I saw the movie.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Anyway, how you guys been?
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: We've had a lot of those. The press junkets where
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: they come in and the first thing that you know
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: the movie sucks. If they don't ask you anything about
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: the movie, they come in and they go, so how
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: you been? And you're like, oh, shit. This is going
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: to be bad.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Is it weird? The transformation of the film industry seems
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: like a lot of it is moving towards these big
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: streaming movies now. Absolutely.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, it's because where most people have gone
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: to watch them. It used to be the only place
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: you'd go see movies in the 40s. Every American went
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: to the movie every week, basically. But it was because
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: it was.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: That or watch the cows walk by. That was the only.
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: And then TV comes around.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: It's little. And you see these little serials.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: But what happened was now this is why it's totally
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: changed the whole thing. Because you have 300 million people, 30,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: whatever it is, watching Netflix. And it's a lot harder
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: to get people to go into the movies. There's also YouTube.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: There's also TikTok. There's also my kids. Like, it's hard
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: to get them excited about a movie.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's what we had. I mean, yeah, that was
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: our I mean, our teen years were just every weekend
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: we're at the movies.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: There's just no question about it. You were going to
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: go and usually not get into one because there were
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: too many people. And then you just see what else
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: is playing and go to that.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Well, it seems like it was kind of slipping away
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: because so many people were watching streaming already. And then
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: COVID came around and everyone was locked down and no
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: one was going to the movie theater. And then it
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: just set in.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: I had this drama that was coming out right when
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: COVID hit. I really liked the movie, performance movie. It's
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: about an alcoholic guy whose kid dies and becomes an alcoholic.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: It's a dark movie, but I loved it. And I
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: could tell, like, we're fucked. No one's going to go
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: to the theater to see this movie. And it wasn't
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: even that streaming really blew up, of course, during COVID. So,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: you know, look, they rushed it onto streaming. People actually
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: saw it. I was like, look, all things being equal,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I'd like people to see it, you know? And it's
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: not like my dad had an 11-inch black and white TV,
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: and that's.
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: What was TV viewing. No, it's like $ 200.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: You got a fucking 65-inch flat screen, like, and good sound. So,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: of course, people are willing to. And then streamers also
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: started making great shows.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: You have Adolescence.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you saw it. I think that's
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: one of the best things ever done.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen Adolescence.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable. What is it? Oh, my God. I don't
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: want to spoil too much of it. It's only four episodes.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: They're all one shot. They're all one shot. Each episode
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: is one entire shot. Whoa. So the cast, they took,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I think, I talked to the director about it, that
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: the cast took, I think, a week to rehearse each
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: one and then a week to shoot it. And so
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: they do it twice a day. It's the full hour
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: they would choreograph the entire thing. It's a feat on itself. Yeah,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: it's really. And then the acting is great. But that's,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, just dismiss that. You could even call it
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: a gimmick. It's not in this case, but. The performances
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: and the writing and what it's about, it's as good
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: as anything you'll see. It's phenomenal.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: What is it on?
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Netflix. It's not even an anomaly.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: There's Baby Rangers, there's fucking Succession, there's Game of Thrones, Ozarks.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: It's just like, okay, well, they're doing great shit out there.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: It's not like this sort of, implied thing before was like, yeah, well,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: TV's not as good, not as interesting.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: It's a serial. When we started, it was, there was
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: a different, I mean, like George Clooney, for instance, like
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: there was a big thing, you know, he very famously,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: you know, became the superstar on ER. That show, 40
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: million people a week were watching that show. It was
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: the biggest thing, right? Because there were only a few
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: channels to tune into. And that show was the biggest one.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: And George never renegotiated his contract. He wanted to work
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: in movies. And it was like, you can't go from
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: TV to movies.
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: Very few people can do it.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: And he really strategically and kind of patiently, like he
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: joked that on the last episode he was on, Anthony Edwards,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: you know, his co-star was making a million bucks for
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: the episode. And he was making, you know, 20 grand
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: or whatever his deal was. Like, he could have renegotiated,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: but he would have had to give more years. The
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: point was that's how bad he wanted to get off
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: TV and do movies. That's how bad he wanted to
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: get off the biggest TV show in the world because
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: there was such a big kind of level change between
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: features and TV.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Well, it was a giant difference in quality. It was
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: also the breaking it up for commercials.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: It was just a different experience.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: It couldn't be, you know, there's all these rules.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: You can't say this, you can't do that, you can't swear,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: you can't have violence and all the things people want
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: to see in movies, you know, and then.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: And also it wasn't as interesting.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: And then now that's tethered to these schedules and all
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: this stuff, whereas you get this shit, like you don't
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: have a schedule and you can take a bunch of risks.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: And that started happening. And then it was kind of like, well,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: this all is just as good if not better, than
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: what's in the movies.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Well, then movies started to move towards more IP.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Because it was hard to get people to come to
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: the movies, everyone got scared and thought, well, there has
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: to be a sequel or a superhero movie.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: To justify being a theater. And so an interesting little movie,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: kind of in the 90s when we kind of came
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: onto the scene, you know, there were a lot of
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: really good independent movies that were being made. There was,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: you know, it was a really great time to be
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: making movies. People were, they were making daring movies. And
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: then everyone just got way more conservative because it's, huge
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: like the business is so different theatrically and streaming because
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: to put out a movie theatrically you have to put
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: so much more money behind it to publicize like you're
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: trying to get everybody spending about what the budget was
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: to make it to advertise because you got 50 percent
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: of the theater yeah because you split it with the
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: the movie house right through the exhibit 25.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: Million dollar movie to break even gotta make 100 million dollars.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: And so and you got to get everybody to not
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: only know about the movie but to show up like
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: that friday night like that specific time, you know, for
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: that specific movie, and to cut through all the noise
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: that people are contending with.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: It just becomes about risk, and nobody wants to take
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: the risk, so they don't want to make something new
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: because it's such an investment, and we're going to lose
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: all our fucking money, and the streamers have stepped into that,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: and like, you know, you didn't have to necessarily have
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: a star, you could try something more interesting, or it
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: didn't have to be a superhero movie, whatever it was,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: and also I think it's like, you know, frankly, like
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: people my age are like, First of all, it's expensive.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: You take your whole family, it's $ 100. You're on a
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: streaming service, $ 20 a month, you can watch.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: All you want.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: So you can't be cavalier about, like, you're just going
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: to price it however the fuck you want and expect
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: everyone to, like, be indifferent to that. And then, you know, also,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: you know, the idea of, like, for me, you know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: there's a.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Lot of stuff.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: I make that decision.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: Like, do I want to see The Odyssey on a
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: big screen?
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Fucking def. I went to a theater to just watch
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the trailer for that movie. And, you know, at one
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: battle after another, I wanted to go see in the theater.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: But there's movies with.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: People that I really like and respect where, Yeah, and
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: I got a good system and shit, but I'm like, look,
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: I'll watch it and I might get tired or I
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: won't pause it and take a piss or the kids,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: you know, whatever it is, that's conducive to my lifestyle,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: you know?
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: And so I even see a few, I.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Think most people are, yeah. But there is the experience
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: of seeing it with a bunch of other people and
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: seeing an awesome movie with a bunch of other people.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: It's like a shared experience.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. I always like an attention. Way more,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: like when I went to see one battle on IMAX, like,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: you know, that feeling, there's nothing like that feeling. I took,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: you know, two of my kids and two of my
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: nephews and my wife and we all went and it
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: was just, it was like, and you're in with, you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a bunch of strangers, but people in your community and
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: you're having this experience together. I always say it's more
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: like going to church. Like you show up at an
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: appointed time, you know what I mean? It doesn't wait
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: for you. It's, you know, versus the experience of watching
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: at home, I think, you know, you're watching in a room,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: the lights are on, other shit's going on, the kids
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: are running around, the dogs are running around, whatever it is,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? It's just a very different
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: level of attention that you're willing to, or that you're
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: able to give to it. And that has a big effect.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And it also ends up having an effect or is
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: starting to have an effect on how you make movies.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Like for instance, Netflix, you know, standard way to make
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: an action movie that we learned was, you know, you
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: usually have like three set pieces, one in the first act,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: one in the second, one in the third. And you know,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: they kind of ramp up and the big one with
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: all the explosions and you spend most of your money
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: on that one in the third act, that's your kind
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: of finale. And now they're like, can we get a
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: big one in the first five minutes to get somebody,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: you know, we want people to stay tuned in. And,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: you know, it wouldn't be terrible if you reiterated the
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: plot three or four times in the dialogue because people
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: are on their phones while they're watching, you know what
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I mean? And so then it's going to really start
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: to infringe on Creatively. Yeah, how we're telling the story. Yeah,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: but then you look at our lessons, it didn't do
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: any of that shit. It didn't do any of that.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: And it was fucking great. You know what I mean?
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: So I think it's dark, too. It's tragic and intense.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: It's like a guy who finds out these kids are
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: accused of murder, and it's like, you know, and there's
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: long shots in the back of their head. They get
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: in the car. Nobody says anything. I think there are those, look,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: these ideas.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I wish that were there. It feels more like the exception.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: It's so... masterfully made, that it feels a little more
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: like The Exception. I hope it's not.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: My feeling is just that it demonstrates that you don't
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: need to do any of that shit to get people,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean?
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: And I think, yes, you know, like, okay, the town.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Had the action scene at the beginning of the first
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: five minutes, you know what I mean? It's a common
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: trick that you would go like, let me grab him
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: and get him invested. It's like the movies that start
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: with the hero hanging from the cliff and now we're
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: going to flash back to the beginning and tell you
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: how they got there. It's, you know, I always feel
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: like a, you know, complaining about it makes me feel
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: like one of these guys was like when i was
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: a boy like you always want to freeze the culture
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: at the time when you i don't know felt more
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: like you know we didn't used to have these phones
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: the fuck are all these phone and everybody's looking i
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: get it yes it's true also it's like supplying demand
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: people want to look at their phone they can look
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: at tiktok they want you know they're going to do
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: that i think what you can do is make shit
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: the best you can make it really good and you
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: know people can still go to the movies not like
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: We have this idea that's like an existential threat. Everything
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: that comes along is going to destroy everything. Instead of
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: like what history suggests is that there's like marginal encroachments.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Things shift. Yep.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: As television came along, there was less theater going. That's
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: still going to happen. And people are still going to
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: go to the movies because of what you said. Like
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: it feels like a cool thing to do. I'm going
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: to go see The Odyssey. I guarantee you in a theater,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: you know, no matter what.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Viewer of them.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: You could argue that's because I have more choice or
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: whatever it is. It's hard to fight supply and demand.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: That's the trick.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: If people want to watch a bunch of stuff at
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: home because they invested in TVs and cost us money,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: they will.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: So, OK. But the upside of that is like I
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: can try to do something.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Hopefully that's like that actually doesn't need to, you know,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: have the most urgency to get you to come to
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: the theater with your family. That's a little more experimental
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: or risk taking or whatever in that way.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Well, you got to adapt. I mean, there's no way
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: you're going to change people's viewing habits now.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: No.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, what percentage of Netflix is actually watched on phones?
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: It's got to be pretty high, which is insane.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: Even watching on a laptop for me is kind of like,
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: kind of sucks.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sucks.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It's a disaster. joke that i like to make with
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: every director i work with like when they're really puzzling
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: over a shot or really grinding out something i go
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: you know it's not gonna look as good on the
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: phone just everyone gets angry no that's gonna look great
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: this fucking bigs but keep fucking around and lighting that wall.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: It is weird though the the concern for the algorithm
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: like making sure that people watch like look we've got
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: data that shows within the first five minutes when this
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: happens they tune out So let's– like my buddy Tony Hinchcliffe,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: he's got Kill Tony and now it's on Netflix. And
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: so they're giving him notes now and they can give
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: him like– but they're not telling him what to do.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: But they're saying like this is when people are tuning out.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: And so let's– just so you have that data, now
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: decide how you want to edit things. It's like– Slippery slope.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: It is because the– it's like the bar for– walking
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: out of a movie theater is a lot higher than
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: from just changing the channel. Right. Right. And oftentimes, you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: you directors will want to make a movie that is
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: challenging and upsetting. And I remember Terry Kinney, my, my friend,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: great actor. And he, he told me about the experience
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of seeing taxi driver in New York for the first time, right.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: In 76 or whenever it came out. And he said,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: What I remember is not only the movie, but I
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: remember standing at the back because I had got up.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I got up out of my seat and I went,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: but I couldn't bring myself to leave because I was
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: so invested. But I was because I was standing at
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the back by the door watching the movie. And he
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: goes and there were two other people standing next to
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: me who were doing the same thing.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Just because they were disturbed?
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Because the movie was disturbing them so much. Wow. Which
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: is not a bad thing, right? Right. So had that
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: been on Netflix or Amazon, you know, if somebody's, oh,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I'm disturbed, and they turn, and they change the channel. Yeah. Like,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you shouldn't make Taxi Driver.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Right, that's true. Like, the investment of going to a
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: place is much greater.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and one of the values of that is that
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: you could, you look at movies from the 70s, the
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: first act was 25, 30 minutes.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Right. You know, The Verdict, for instance, is a great movie.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Takes a long time to get going. Look at The
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Deer Hunter. Oh, yeah.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's, And you're right, like what you're saying,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: the threshold for walkout is real, like, any scene, like, ah,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: I want to watch Naked and Alone. You know, you
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: flip the fucking, so you are battling that, and, you know.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I watched Le Mans the other night, Steve McQueen, and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: no one talks for, like, five minutes. There's no talking.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: It's just a bunch of stuff getting done. It's just
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: a bunch of people doing things, and it's like, wow,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: you could make it different. You could let it air
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: out back then.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: They had a different respect for what it was. Like
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you were telling a story and you're going to let
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: it air out.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Well, they also knew where their audience was. They were
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: in a theater.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Part of it was they wanted to come there. I mean,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: the great story I like is the first time they
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: debuted a movie, guys with a projector in a room
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: full of people. It was a movie of a train
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: pulling into the station. So they put the reel up
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: and they did the demonstration and they showed the people
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: and everybody missed it because they were turned around staring
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: at the projector.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Because they've never fucking seen anything like that. It's like
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: the technology is upstaging. But you come for an event.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Come for a thing. We're all going to be here.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: That's part of it. It's, I don't know. There's competing arguments.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: So you can think, well, what do you get to do?
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: And some people just go ahead and fuck it. Like
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Jim Cameron's Avatar. I'm going to make my three-hour movie.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: And people are going to come.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: And great. You know what I mean?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: And people say, oh, well, you can't have a three-hour movie.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: And he's like, well, I'm Jim Cameron. And I've actually
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: got the number one and two in movies.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I think I got this. He goes ahead and does it.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: History's full of people who got told a bunch of
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: conventional wisdom and were like, yeah, but we're gonna do
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: something different. And as it turns out, that's actually what
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: people want too, is not for you to just repeat
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: the other shit that's been done before or worked before.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by visible. and a
• 18:39
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• 18:43
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• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Subject to change. See visible.com for planned features and network
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: management details. One of the things I read that I
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: thought was really fucking cool is you guys set it
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: up so that if this film performs well, the entire
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: crew gets bonuses.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully it's successful. I think it's going to be
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: a shit house if it doesn't.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: It's a fucking great movie, man. It's a fun movie.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: But it's good, but it's not like, you know, fucking
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: we're saints or a philanthropist. Like, it's completely self-serving, in
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: my opinion. Because in order to do the job well,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: everybody who's working on it has to be really invested
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: and give a shit about the result.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: Not their paycheck only.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: And sometimes you're with a crew that just happen to
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: be great anyway, even though they don't really have to
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: care about it and they do.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And what we saw was like, that makes your movie better.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: And then there's just the thing of like, the business
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: is changing. You see these.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Strikes and work stops and all these fucking questions. In
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: order for this, I think, to survive and to be,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: you know, a good middle class fucking artist, you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: artisanal craftsman job, We've got 1,200 people that need to
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: have reliable jobs. And part of the negotiations is always like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: but we're all going to get fucked. We have no participation.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: It used to work in our movies, and it happens
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: to actors too, where you go, oh.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: We all invested.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: It was really hard, and we fucking put in the
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: extra effort. Somebody else walked away with all the success.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: And my theory with Matt was we were like, how
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: about where let's say, okay, it's just fairness, right? If
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: this thing actually blows up and does really well, you
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: should benefit from that. People have been, you know, kind
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: of given sort of promises of participation back and haven't
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: come true. This is like, everyone got their rates, everyone
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: got their hourly, no one cut anything. This is just
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: an exercise in actually proving that it's not bullshit. That
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: if there's success, you'll get some extra. A little success,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: a little extra.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: A little more, a little more. But also, like you said,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: because it's fair. It's fair. And in success, the people
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: who made the movie should, you know, should participate in that. And,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: And also with this one, which was important to us,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: they delineate above the line and below the line, right?
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Like above the line being like us, the director and
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: the producers. And below the line being kind of the
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: more blue-collar side of our industry.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Like painters, grainsmen, camera people, everybody else, the drivers.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: And so we just wanted, we believe, like when we
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: started this company, we were like, look, you know, we
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: know who makes our movie better. Right. It's not it's
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: it's like they've this has kind of been mispriced the
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: whole time. Like the economics have been wrong. Like when
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: there's a when there's a big success, everybody who had
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: a hand on it.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Because you see a great director that people rely on
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: or an actor that's considered bankable.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: They're all going, OK, I need all my people.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Every great director I've worked with and I've worked
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: with a lot of them. They have their regular crew members. Right.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: They that ride or die with these people.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Because I mean, and you said it to me when
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: we were starting the company, you were like, Those department
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: heads who are each handling cinematography, your camera department, your
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: grip department, your electric. Those people are ultimately the people
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: who make the movie good. They make a demonstrable difference
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: in how good your movie is.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: And imagine once you get a good flow with a
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: great crew, you got the band. There's no need to
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: bring in new band members. Let's do this again.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: And then you have the situation where they all are
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: filmmakers too. Everybody knows what we're trying to do. So, like,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: then what makes it, you know, you're trying to get
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: something special, something interesting, something fucking magical in some moment.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: You have to, like, if people are tight or if
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: they're bent out of shape or, you know, it fucks
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: up the environment.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: People aren't relaxed. Actors can't do their best work.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: And that does make a difference between something that's good, average, great, whatever.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: And I think that if you say, like, you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: it makes cognitive sense to people. But if you look around, like,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Colin Anderson, camera operator, right? He's not the cinematographer.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: But I would tell you, I think he's the greatest camera.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Operator there is in Hollywood. And if you want evidence
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: of that, he shot Marty Supreme. He was a camera
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: operator in one battle after another. You look at his resume,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, that's interesting. These are all fucking
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: great movies. Now, is he personally responsible for all of it? No,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: because it's a collaborative medium. There is no, like, you
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: can be a painter and paint by yourself. You can
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: be a novelist and do that, sing, write music. You
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: can't do this job alone. Like, there are a lot
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: of people that go into it. You know, even when
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I realized Matt was the lead in the last movie
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I did air that I directed, having somebody so fucking
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: good in your movie who also shows up, does his job,
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: is friendly, isn't fucking around or playing games or being weird,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: like that sets this tone. Everybody else kind of goes, okay,
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: what's Damon like? Oh, we're taking this seriously, but nobody's
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: going to be a dick.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: We're all going to do our job.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: We're not going to take ourselves too seriously, but we're
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: going to take the job really seriously. And immediately, everybody
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: kind of snaps into that. That trickle-down effect goes across
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: the whole thing. And I think the best thing that
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I know how to do as a director is just
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: create an environment where people feel like they show up,
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: people like me, they're rooting for me, I can fucking
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: embarrass myself and be bad, and it's not going to
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: be in the movie, and it's going to make me
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: feel self-conscious.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I'm listening to my ideas.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and if I have something to offer, they're going
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: to go, oh, that's a good idea.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: That's kind of the trick, in my view. And then
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: you're depending on the gifts of all these people.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Every single one of them.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Some woman's assistant prop master is coming up with the
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: stuff that Phil Knight found, his waffle from the shoe,
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: they found it on eBay.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: That's an extra mile.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: If you make people feel like it matters and you
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: give a shit and that they're contributing and, oh, cool,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: let's do a close-up of that. That's really fucking cool.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: They'll die for you. They'll go all the way. And
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: it changes the whole dynamic. You bonus them.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't hurt either. You know, it's not just all,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: you know, it's... It's not just rah-rah. There's an actual, like,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: codified bonus structure to say, like, we... This is the
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: way of.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Recognizing that shit, right? And it's, like, in your paycheck, too.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: It's not just bullshit. That's very real.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: And you guys developed this? Is this something that you... Like,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: kudos to you guys for addressing this, first of all,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: and recognizing it and having that attitude, because it's so
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: important and so easy to... for big movie stars to
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: just think about themselves and.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Their own career.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Well, we're communists, Joe.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: We're from Cambridge.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Keep the car running.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: No, but each deal has had this kind of, each
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: deal that we've done so far has been different because
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: we've made deals with different studios and platforms and stuff
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: And just involved us basically retroactively going, hey, we came
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: in under, we did a great job, there's extra money.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Here you go.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: This is the first time that we were able to,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: to actually create like a schedule where it's like, because,
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: and by the way, we wouldn't have been able to
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: do that without Netflix going, okay, cool.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: You think you can make this work? Is this, we'll
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: give you a shot. Otherwise we wouldn't have been able
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: to do it.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: So we had to say, look, we're not asking you
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: to take a cut, but you know, if, if we,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: we can, and we can tell you if the movie
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: is watched as many hours in the first 90 days
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: as like this movie, a, that you all know what
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: it is, then that's, you know, 20% of your salary,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: let's say, right? I mean, you just take a hit.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah, you make more money, your bonus
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: is more. It's all just pegged to where you're at,
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: just because that was the most fair idea we'd come
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: up with.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: So they gave us like five different levels, right? Like
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: the first couple we, hopefully we can hit and maybe
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the third, maybe we get, and then it got to
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: like the fifth level. It's kind of like single, double, triple,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: home run. Home run, fucking grand slam. The fifth one
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: was 110% of all Netflix viewers or something like that.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: So it's everybody who has a Netflix account watches it
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: and then like 10% of them watch it again. And
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: we were like- No, it's like K-Pop Demon. It's as
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: big as K-Pop Demon. But that's what happened. We were
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: laughing and then K-Pop Demon Hunters came along and actually
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: did that. That's the first movie that's ever- Jesus. Yeah.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I think a lot of autistic kids watch that
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: over and over and over and over again.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it, but I mean, somebody's watching it
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: over and over again.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Dude, people love it.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's, you know, the value of it is,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: because before this, one of the big things, and everybody's
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: fighting over in the strike, is like, well, share your,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: there used to be residuals, right? And residuals, and it
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: was only for SAG and a few other things, but
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: it was like, and you knew if you had a
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: line in the movie, and there was a certain number,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: like at the box office, well, you're going to get
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: another $ 2, 000, right?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: And that was a big deal.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: You get that check in the mail and like, okay,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: I can pay the rent for another month and I
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: can do that shit. But then there was this like
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: sort of ill, what constitutes success? Because Streamer doesn't actually
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: sell another ticket if you watch that movie, right? And
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: it's hard to tell, well, why did you sign up
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: for this service, right? So for a while, everyone was
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: looking at, the first thing that you looked at when
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you subscribed to somebody, okay, you're.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Going to go buy Hulu? What did you watch first?
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: The bear.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Well, the bear must be, Creating value for us. But
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: you can't assign a strict numerical value to it because
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: it's like a box office where you can go, well,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Oppenheimer is a billion dollars or whatever. And that's another
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: billion dollars on our balance sheet because streamers are doing
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: a subscription model. Whether it's like a gym membership where
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: in the fucking first of the year you're like, I'm
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: going to work out again. I'm going to buy that
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: annual membership. And you go twice or you go to
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: the gym every single day. You're paying the same amount.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Also, the weird thing is with streaming, when you're opening
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: up Netflix, it's not like you go into the movie
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: theater and there's seven movies playing. You're opening up Netflix
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and you have an unlimited option list. It's insane how
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: much content. You could waste the rest of your life
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: sitting in front of Netflix and then die and have
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: millions of hours more to listen to or watch.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: When we started researching that and built our own data
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: to poll people and examine all this stuff, it's actually
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: all the library stuff that people are watching all the time.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: The new stuff is theoretically what keeps people with the
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: subscription or whatever, but in terms of volume of time,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: I think, and it doesn't come from them, but it
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: looks a lot like we're gonna watch Orange is the
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: New Black and the episode of Suits and the old
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Seinfeld and Friends and Cupcake Wars. Americans watch six hours
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: of TV a day, right?
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: And then the other six hours they're on their phone.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: How does anything get done? How does anything get done?
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: When you started to make this film, what is the process?
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: How did you guys agree on it? Did you guys
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: have it written first? Before you knew you were going
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: to Netflix with it?
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He came to us with the script,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: and we've known Joe for a really, he did a movie,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: his first movie was called Narc. I don't know if
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: you ever saw it. It's terrific. It's a great movie, yeah.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: So we met him way back this, 25 years ago
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: or something like that. So we met him back then.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: And Ben did a movie of his in 2004, I think.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: So we've known Joe for a really long time and
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: kind of been in touch with him over the years.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: And he just sent this to us. And we read
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: it and we thought it was great and bought it
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: for the company. And then we started talking to Joe
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: about how he saw it. how he wanted to do it,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and he suggested that we actually do the movie. And
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: we were like, yeah, why don't we do it? It seems...
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Basically because we liked it.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Part of it's like, we're not trying to just do
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: our movies.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: We want to.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Be doing movies with all these people that we like
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: and respect. And then the way we sort of set
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: it up is such that to try to get.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Historically, the way it's worked is a studio will own
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: an IP or a script or whatever, And then they'll say, okay,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: we want you to do it. Okay, well, how much
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: did you get for the last one, right? And you go, well,
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: what's the budget? And then that's how they assign a
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: value to it, right?
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: But my belief.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Was, well, especially when these streams are coming into the
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: market and chasing stuff, is like, this movie may be
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: worth more.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: It may be worth less. And that, like, we're all.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: Just subject to that. So we'll try to get the
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: best price for it, and we'll all share it, you know,
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: pro rata. And essentially, that was the same process. We've
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: done eight, I guess, movies or so now, and... we
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: took it out and, you know, people wanted it. And
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: then one of the things that was really appealing about
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Netflix was that they were open to this, this idea
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: that we've been trying to institutionalize. It was like, okay, great. That's,
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: that's really meaningful because ideally it becomes a template to
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: other people go, Hey, we want to do that thing,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: you know?
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: And I mean, go, here's the paper.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's the thing. Like a lot of people say
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: that they would want to do it, but it now,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: now that template exists. So it's like plug and play.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: So if you, if you're not full of shit and
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: you really do mean that, then guess what?
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Just take this and, And it also is going to
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: let you, I hope, manage the risk. In other words,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: the argument you always have is like, well, shit, we've
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: got to invest all this money in the movie. So
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: you can't have your protagonist be too objectionable, that's too edgy,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: or can't be R-rated because it costs this much.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I get it, right?
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: You're going to put all your money into it. You
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: don't want money to fucking disappear. You want to make money?
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: So when we wrote the first movie, Good Will Hunting,
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: it was like we knew that had to be a
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: cheap movie. people talking in rooms to each other because
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: no one's going to put a bunch of money into
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: a movie.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Into a movie with us. Two assholes that no one
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: heard of.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: So it was like, okay, what can we do that's
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: interesting and try to keep it as inexpensive as possible
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: so that we can make the argument that someone should
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: make the movie? That same logic carries through every time
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: you're asking somebody to invest in something.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: So what I'd like to have happen is.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: To say, okay, now that we know there's a reliable
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: system where we understand that in success we'll actually benefit,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: we can lower... you know, the price up front for
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: you so that you can have a low fucking barrier
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: to entry so that you can take the risk so
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: that we can do something really interesting. That's, that's an
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: original idea. That's a, you know, that's an ABN or
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: a sinners or if I'm already Supreme or whatever it is. And,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: and then if it's successful, we're not all sitting here
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: like assholes where, you know, you guys walk off with
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: all the money, but, and you can have that happen
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: in an ongoing way so that you can make more
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: interesting stuff.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: A lot of the stuff that was going on with
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Strikes was centered around AI and what AI is going
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: to do to the business. Where do you feel is
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: going to be the biggest problem with AI? Is it
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: going to be with people's likenesses? Because there's a lot
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: of that where they want to use extras and own
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: their digital rights forever, essentially be able to recreate them
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: in any kind of film. But then there's also, you're
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: going to have films that are written by artificial intelligence.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: You're going to have scenes that don't involve people. And
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: it gets weird, right?
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: It gets really weird, but it's actually an area of
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: expertise for him.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we've been spending time looking at this.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: My belief is, it's sort of like, what's going to
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: happen with electricity?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Well, a lot of shit's going to happen with electricity.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Some of it's going to be good, some of it's
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: going to change stuff, some of it's going to be like,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: you know, this is going to be shit that kills
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: a bunch of people.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: It's opening a door that you can't say, well, talk
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: about in kind of a blanket way, but I think
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: with What I see is, for example, if you try
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: to get ChachiBT or Claude or Gemini to write you something,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: it's really shitty. And it's shitty because by its nature,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: it goes to the mean, to the average. And it's
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: not reliable. And it's, I mean, I just can't even
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: stand to see what he writes. Now, it's a useful
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: tool if you're a writer and you're going, ah, what's
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: the thing? I'm trying to set something up where somebody
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: sends someone a letter, but it's delayed two days and gets,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: and it can give you some examples of that. I
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: actually don't think it's very likely that it's gonna be
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: able to write anything meaningful, and in particular, that it's
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: gonna be making movies from whole cloth, like Tilly Norwood.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: That's bullshit.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: I don't think that's gonna happen. I think it actually
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: turns out the technology is not progressing in exactly the
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: same way they sort of presented it. And really, what
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: it is is gonna be a tool, just like sort
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: of visual effects. And yeah, it needs to have language
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: around it. You need to protect your name and likeness.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: You can do that. You can watermark it.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Those laws already exist. I can't sell your fucking picture
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: for money.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: I can't.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: You can sue me, period. I might have the ability
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: to draw you, to make you in a very realistic way,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: but that's already against the law. And the unions are
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: going to, I think the guilds are going to manage
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: this where it's like, okay, look, if this is a
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: tool that actually helps us, for example, we don't have
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: to go to the North Pole, right? We can shoot
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: the scene here in our parkas and whatever it is. And,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: but then make it appear very realistically as if we're
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: in the North Pole. It'll save us a lot of money,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: a lot of time. We're going to focus on the
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: performances and not be freezing our ass off out there
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: and running back inside.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: That's useful.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Just like Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn used to be
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: like driving their car and there's a wind blowing a.
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: Painting behind them and it looked goofy.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Now, you know, in computer generated, people use a lot
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: of computer generated stuff and some of it is going
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: to replace just that. Like instead of 500 guys in Singapore,
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: making $ 2 an hour to render all the graphics for
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: a superhero movie, there's going to be able to do
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: that a lot easier. There's already laws around and guild
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: guidelines around how many union extras you have to use.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: But also, we've been tiling extras. There weren't a million
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: orcs in Middle Earth, you know what I mean? In Invictus,
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: there weren't all those people in the stadium. That's something
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: we've been doing. It kind of feels to me like
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: the thing we were talking about earlier, where there's a
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: lot more fear because we have the sense that's existential dread.
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: It's gonna wipe everything out.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: But that actually runs counter, in my view, to what
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: history seems to show, which is A, adoption is slow,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: it's incremental. I think a lot of that rhetoric comes
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: from people who are trying to justify valuations around companies.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Where they go, we're gonna change everything. In two years,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: there's gonna be no more work.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Well, the reason they're saying that is because they need
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: to ascribe a valuation for investment that can warrant the
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: CapEx spend they're going to make on these data centers
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: with the argument that like, oh, you know, as soon
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: as we do the next model, it's going to scale
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: up and be three times as good. Except that actually ChatGPT-5,
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: about 25% better than ChatGPT-4 and costs about four times
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: as much in the.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: Way of electricity and data. So those nice things, it's
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: like plateauing.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: The early AI, the line went up very steeply and
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: it's now sort of leveling off. I think it's because,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: and yes, it'll get better, but it's going to be
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: really expensive to get better. And a lot of people
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: were like, fuck this, we want you at GPT-4, because
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: it turned out the vast majority of people who use
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: AI are using it as companion bots to chat with
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: at night. And so there's no work, there's no productivity,
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: there's no value to it. I would argue there's also
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: not a lot of social value to getting people to
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: focus on an AI friend who's telling you that you're
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: great and listening to everything you say and being sycophantic.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: That's sort of a side issue.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: I think for this particular purpose, like the way I
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: see the technology and what it's good at and what
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: it's not, it's going to be good at filling in
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: all the places that are expensive and burdensome and they
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: make it harder to do it. And it's always going
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: to rely fundamentally on the human artistic aspects of it.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the more it becomes ubiquitous, the more
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: people are going to appreciate real things that are made
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: by real people. You know, like you still appreciate a
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: handmade table. You know, you're going to appreciate, like, did
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: you see The Beast and Me, Claire Danes?
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I didn't.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Fucking great.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard it was great. That lady.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Woo.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: It was terrific.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Woo. When she's in a scene, you're just like, Jesus Christ.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Great, great actress.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Like, her fucking lips are quivering. Like, you believe everything
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: that she's saying.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: But you're right. People want that.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: You can't fake that.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I'll say, like, I did this interview with Dwayne Johnson because,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: you know, they when people are in these awards things,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: they sometimes have other actors interview them, you know, and
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: I did this interview with Dwayne and, and, and I
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: asked him, there's this scene in the smashing machine where,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: where he's overdosed on drugs and his buddy comes to
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: see him in the hospital. Yeah. And, and it really
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: walloped me, this scene. I thought it was so great. And,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: and I asked him and I was just like, can
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: you just tell me about this scene? Like did Benny,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Benny Safdie directed it? Did Benny write this, write that?
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Did you work on that scene with them? Do you,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: he goes, no, we, We actually worked on it together.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: And I go, well, how did that scene come to be?
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: And Dwayne goes, well, my father was an alcoholic. And
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I don't remember if he said substance abuser or alcoholic,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: but I didn't know the man. I don't want to
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: impugn him. But he had a substance issue, whatever it was.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: He goes, and when he would talk to me, that's
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: how he would defend himself. It was almost a bargaining thing.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Because there's this thing when this guy comes to him,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: he's overdosed. And Dwayne's amazing in this scene. He's going like,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: He's going like, yeah, isn't it crazy? And then I
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: woke up and thought, I mean, I could hear him,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: but I couldn't really hear him. And you see him
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: and he's kind of tap dancing and his friend finally
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: kind of holds his feet to the fire. And at
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: that moment, Dwayne literally starts to burst into tears and
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: just pulls the hospital sheet up over his head. And
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: it's like, and it's, and it's, I mean, it just,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: it was, I'm not doing it justice if you haven't.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know you've seen it. But, um, He said, yeah.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: So he explains that about his father. And then he goes, and, and, uh,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: when my mom was diagnosed with stage three lung cancer,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I was with her when the oncologist came in and
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: she was lying in the hospital bed. And when he
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: gave her the news, she pulled the sheet up over
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: her head and I looked at her and she just
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: looked like a little, like a little kid, you know?
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: And I was like, all right, like, so that right
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: is two traumatic events from this guy's life. Right. from
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: his life experience. And the actor in him, right, sees
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: this scene, goes into his memory, pulls these two things out,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: understands that they're appropriate for this scene and he can
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: marry them together in the scene. And then he goes
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and performs it that way. And a dude walking in
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: off the road goes to the movies, sees this, understands
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: somehow that it's fucking real i didn't know why i
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: that's why i wanted to ask him how did that
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: scene come to be i genuinely didn't know and made
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: me tear up and you know like that is there's
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: no fucking ai that can do that no it's a
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: whole lot more than photorealistic images yeah yeah that you
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: you could you could you could have an ai understand
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: duane's face and move his face into different No fucking
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: thing could ever do that.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: The complications of real life experiences relayed.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: That is a completely human, that is an artist, that's
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: a piece of art.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: That comes out of a lived human experience.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: That movie gave me so much anxiety. There's moments where
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Emily Blunt is arguing with him. She's so fucking good
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: in that movie.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: She's so good. I really said, I was like, I
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: think that's the best she's ever been. We live in
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: the same building in New York. She's a very dear
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: friend of mine. And I was like, I really think
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: that's the best she's ever been. And then I said,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: and then I, blurted that out to Chris Nolan. And
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: he kind of stopped and looked at me like, he
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: didn't say it, but he was kind of like, she's
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: pretty fucking good in my movie too.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Well, she's great period.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: She's great period.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: She's great period. But there's something about that. Well, I
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: knew Mark. I knew Mark from, I met Mark in
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: 97 when he was fighting in the UFC. So I
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: knew the whole journey of him. And I was so
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: happy for Dwayne. Because it was a film where instead
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: of being this fucking superhero blockbuster hulk of a man,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: he gets to be that but be a great actor. And,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: you know, you can't really get a person to look
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: like that, to express emotions. And he was Mark Kerr.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: If you know Mark, I mean, it was fucking great acting.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: I completely forgot it was him. And somebody who had
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: seen it before told me that was going to happen.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: And I was like, all right, we'll see. And it
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: was like from the second it started.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: It didn't get the credit it deserved in terms of
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: like the amount of people that went to see it.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: But I think overall in time. People will appreciate it.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what people will go back to and look
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: at and talk about.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Because it's a movie about MMA. So a lot of
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: people are like, I don't want to see a movie
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: about a bunch of fucking meatheads.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: But it's not.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: It's just a movie that happens to be around MMA.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: But it's a great movie. The scenes are fucking fantastic.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: The acting is so good. And even the fight scenes,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: they're so realistic, man. It's really like they... I saw
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: all those fights. They've recreated those fights about as good
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: as you can get. And just his crazy struggle. And
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: you know the story behind the documentary, The Smashing Machine?
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: No.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: So The Smashing Machine was made when Mark was at
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: the height of his powers and pride. And he was
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: the most terrifying guy in the world. He was 265
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: pounds of solid muscle just blowing through people. Didn't even
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: look like a human being. Everyone was terrified of him.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: No one knew he was a drug addict. No one knew.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: And he spiraled out as they were filming, and he
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: let them film him. Let them film him shooting up.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Let them film him bringing this giant bag of pills
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: with him and all this shit everywhere and just completely
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: falling apart. While they were supposed to be capturing this
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: hero movie of the greatest fighter in the world, he's
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: falling apart live in front of the documentary. It was
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: a fucking amazing documentary.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I got to see it.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: It's really good. But I was so happy that they
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: put it in a film. And I was so happy
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: that it gave Dwayne a vehicle to show what he's
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: really capable of because he's so limited by a lot
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: of just the parameters of the roles that he was in.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and by, like, galactic success, too, right? I mean, it's...
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: He had to and will continue to have to push...
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: For that, right? Because it's what he wants. Yeah. And
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: not because what they're going to continue to want him
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: to do is, you know, the thing that mints them money. Yeah.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: But I suspect that his experience and feeling about this movie.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: From the conversations I've had with him, yeah, this has
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: changed him.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's this thing that these superhero guys
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: have to do where it's like, something has to change
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: because otherwise you're going to be boxed. And with a
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: guy that looks like that, it's so easy to put
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: him in that box. And so you see him now,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: he's thinner, he's lost a lot of weight. Dave Bautista
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: went through a very similar thing too, right? He wanted
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: to have more range, wanted to have more opportunities to
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: do exciting and different challenging things.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I think also coming from where he came from, right?
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: It's like you talk about going from TV to movies
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: in the old days. Try coming from wrestling to like,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: the biggest movie star in the world, right? It's very,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's incredible that he did that. And now
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: he's in this place where he's got this leverage just
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: because he's so beloved and, you know, that he can
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: kind of tailor what he wants from here on out.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: It's hard to bring the audience with you. Right.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: No, no, I know you like this thing, but let
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: me show you something else. You know, it's sort of like,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: You go to the concert, the band wants to play
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: the new songs.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Play the fucking hits.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: You know, he's a little gilded gaze.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: All right, fuck it, satisfaction. No, I love the song, too.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: You know my acoustic thing that I did?
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I went to see the Stones when they were
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: here in town, and there was a few songs they
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: played that were, like, new songs.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: You see the audience is like, okay, okay. Go get
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: a beer. Get the other one. Yeah, that's what... I mean, but,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: you know, every artist, I guess, has to make that choice,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: and he's made it. And it was an amazing vehicle, too,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: because he still kept that superhuman, hulkish frame, but also showed, like, God, there's, like,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: amazing depth there.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: And that's the thing that's, I think, especially because it's A,
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: it's collaborative, it happens.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: To other people.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: That's what movies do that other shit doesn't do, which
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: is just create– like you feel for people.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: It's empathy.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: It's all made up, right?
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: That's not him. It's all an illusion. It's all bullshit.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: But if you do it really well, like, you know,
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: somebody that seems to really be feeling something like all
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, I think what it does, it touches
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: like these things in ourselves. You know, it has that
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: same effect that Dwayne went through of, articulated to you
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: about like these moments that were kind of burned into
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: his memory. Then really the best movies are kind of
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: almost blank screens that we project our own fucking like,
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, I know my father died or I went
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: through this with my kid or I'm fucking, I feel
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: fucking alone and, and, and, and miserable. And here's this
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: like hopeful moment that someone has to go.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe I can, maybe I can do something, you know,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: they inspire you, they touch you, they move you. And
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: like the thing to go for the other thing is,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a, is to, to tell the lighter story,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: to go through the more typical sort of tropes of
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: it all. And it's a, Either way, you're in somebody
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: else's perspective for a few hours. Yeah. And hopefully it
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: breeds compassion.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Well, when it's done right, there's a magic to it
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: where you forget that it's happening and you're there. And
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: the most amazing trick is when it's done by famous people.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: You know, I was talking to Ethan Hawke about this.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: There's a scene with him and Kevin Bacon. in that
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: movie with Julia Roberts about the end of the world.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I forget the name of it. Right, right, right. Tomorrow.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Tomorrow something. People will find it. But it's a great
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: fucking movie. But there's this scene where he's trying to get,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: he's talking to Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon's got a gun
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: to him. And it's so, fuck, I know that's Kevin Bacon.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I know that's Ethan Hawke. It doesn't matter. Like, you're
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: fucking locked in. You're locked in. You're like, oh, shit. Like,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: that's the magic.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: And he was like, but I'm locked in too. It's
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: like a hypnosis. It's like everybody is in the scene
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: in a very bizarre way. Like you have the lines,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: but you're living it. And that's either done or it's
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: not done. And when it's not done, you could tell
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: someone's kind of just performative.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: You feel it when you're watching. Yes. If it does
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: that thing and it pulls you in, then it's happening.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: That's the magic of film.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: And sometimes you trick people, I guess, but for the
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: most part.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: For the most part, you don't. If you're feeling it
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: and it's really happening, it's much more like... Other human
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: beings recognize human beings experiencing real shit.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: They really do. It's like these mirror neurons.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: Like, I know what sorrow looks like without having to fucking...
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: I can't break it down for you or I even.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: You know, you.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: we all know kind of what, like, oh, he's a
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: little anxious right now, or did I maybe offend him, or,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: you know, all these little things, and when some, like,
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: in the rare moments when these big feelings or the
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: things happen, you feel it too, you know? And you
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: usually like an example is, this is an old saying
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: about like, you know, actors try to cry. People try
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: not to cry. Like, because when you're really experiencing that shit,
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: you don't want people to see it. You want to
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: hide it. You want to know I'm okay.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: I'm fine. You know, it's like, you want to pull
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: the sheet up over here. Yeah. But the other thing
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: that's really interesting from, from our side of doing it,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: because he and I've talked about this a lot is,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: and I've always said publicly, like great actors are good
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: enough for both of you. Like when you're in a
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: scene with a great actor, that thing that Ethan's talking about,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: that hypnosis or whatever you want to call it, that energy,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: that place where you go, right? They're bringing you right
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: with it. It's like a fucking tractor beam. They will
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: suck you right in with them. And like as quickly
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: as you look into their eyes and you're like, you're
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: like just there. And it's like, and it's not like,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: it's like riding the easiest wave you've ever ridden in
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: your life. You know, it can be the hardest thing
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: in the world and it can be the easiest thing
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: in the world. When you're with a great actor, it just,
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: it's just, if the scenes... Yeah, this is a real paradox.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: All the stuff that I'm the most proud of, the
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: weird thing about it is it felt very easy at
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: the time. And the shit where you're banging your head
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: against the wall and trying to get blood from a
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: stone and killing yourself and the whole thing, and it
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: just ends up fucking feeling empty.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: And the thing about the stuff that I'm proud of
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: is my insecurity is like, it should be.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Harder than this, right? Are we working hard enough? And
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: learn to kind of just trust that.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: It feels good.
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: Let's just keep going, you know?
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Well, there's some scenes in this movie without giving too
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: much away where there's conflict between you two guys that
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: seems so real. And that's even harder to recreate because
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you guys are good friends. And you're making the movie together.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: And you've got this scene where you're acting in this
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: and with the conflict with the two of you guys
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: in the movie. But it's very fucking real.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: The reason that it was real is that I like
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: that scene. The reason it works, I think, is because
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: he's coming at me and he really needs to know something.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: and I'm completely blanking him. Like, I'm just, he's going,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: you gotta tell me what's going on, man. He's like,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: it's awesome. Like, what is going, what is the thing?
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: And I'm just, like, literally kind of blanking him in
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: this bizarre way, which is, which was really frustrating him
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: in real life because that feeling of like, it's fucking
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: tell me, dude, it's you. And he finally goes, he
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: screams out, I don't trust you right now. That's a
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: fucking problem, right? Which is like what you would say
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: to an old friend. Like, what are you doing, man? Like,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: what are you doing? Tell me the fucking betrayal. Lie
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: to me or tell me the truth.
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: Don't fuck with me and step outside our whole relationship
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: and all of a sudden.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Just give me this weird look of just like, I
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: You know, like.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: And so we were doing the scene. It was really
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: fucking pissing him off. I could see him like getting like.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: The one line that wasn't written that I saw that
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: I didn't remember doing was I would have never fucked
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: you like this.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: I would have never fucked you like this. Yeah.
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: Which I didn't even remember saying.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: Keep that thing. I wouldn't have fucked you.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: And I was, I thought, I was like, what is he?
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: And I so watched the playback. It was one of
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: those rare moments again. It was like where.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: It was that thing of you doing all the work
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: by not.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: Doing anything, which I didn't expect that to be the
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: choice that you made. And it just was confusing and
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: felt like just, you know, leaving you out in the
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: fucking cold.
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: I think the only thing I could rely on is like,
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: you know, I wouldn't do this to you.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: In those moments where you're ad-libbing a line, where a
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: line comes, is it just that feels like that's what
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: you say?
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: It's just kind of like you couldn't stop from saying it. Right.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: But you have to be working with somebody... that makes
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: that okay, you know what I mean? Because the part
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: of your brain that will like govern you or tell
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: you something's not okay, will step in if it's sort
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: of like, you know, listen, I expect you to fucking
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: do this box. And there's directors and writers who really
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: do really care about every word precisely and that's how
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: they do it and that's fine and that can be
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: great too. For me, I find it becomes more interesting
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: and sometimes better stuff happens if you actually feel like
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: you don't have to say any of the lines. I
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: don't see any of the lines in the scene, then
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: I'll tend to say the ones that feel right.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: But it's that fake.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: Thing that never happens in life, which is I'm never
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: sitting here talking to you and think, what's my next line?
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: What am I supposed to say and how should I
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: say that?
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: And it's not about the lines ever. It's not about
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: the words. It's about what's the scene about? What's happening
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: in the scene?
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons why Curb Your Enthusiasm is
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: so great. Because Larry David just gives you a place
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: to get to.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It gives them kind of a loose agenda of
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: what's gonna happen.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: And then films a bunch of stuff and everybody figures
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: it out.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: And a lot of times that shows about the awkward
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: shit when people are missing each other.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Or not sure of themselves and a little embarrassed.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Fucking genius show.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: And people talk like we're talking. Like you occasionally talk
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: over each other. There's a stumble. There's no one. Like what?
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: What the fuck are you talking? There's weirdness.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Because what's also happening is that forces you to really listen. Right.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: And that is that is the hardest thing to kind
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: of learn for young actors, I think, is is it's
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: really all about listening. And like I did a bunch
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: of movies with Paul Greengrass and that's how he works,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: where he where you just know the agenda going in.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: You know, some basic things that you know what your
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: guy needs going in. Like I was playing a chief
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: warrant officer and I had to go through a door
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: and there was a guy and I needed to interrogate him.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: And I this is what I needed to know from him.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: I needed to secure the house with my guys and
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: I needed to get to this guy. We needed to
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: make sure everybody here was secure. And he put me
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: with a bunch of real combat veterans and we fucking
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: went in and they're the experts.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: Which is another thing that does your job for you.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: It's just being around the real people.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: Joe putting the cops from Miami on these parts and
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: it just, like by osmosis, you feel more legitimate. The
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: thing feels more authentic to the audience. You don't know
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: why because you don't know what the, what the fucking
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: culture is of the tactical narcotics team in Miami. But
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: when you see the real guys, you're like, yeah, that
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: seems right.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Miami was a perfect place to have it, too.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also specific to this because it's based on
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: this real tactical narcotics team in Miami. And the guy
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: who ran that, this guy, Chris Cassiano, is Joe's friend,
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: and he's the guy that my character is based on. Um,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: so Chris was Chris, we went, you know, we wrote
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: along with Chris down there. We went with that team
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: and watched them operate and then hung out with them.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: And then they came up and they were, you know,
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: all in the movie and Chris was around as a
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: technical advisor the whole time. So any question like little details,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: all right, how do I go through this door? What
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: do I do? What do you do here? What's the,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: what's the protocol here? What, you know, all of that
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: stuff was kind of overseen by him so that it,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: so that it was how they really do it.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: That whole fucking town is so... Did you ever see
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Cocaine Cowboys? Yes.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Shit.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: The entire fucking graduating class of the police academy one
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: year either wound up murdered or in jail.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: That's what happens when all of a sudden you push
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: so much fucking money into something, right? And it's like,
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: before they even kind of figured out, like, you know,
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: and there wasn't even a lot of stigma. It was like, ah, cocaine, whatever.
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: It's kind of rich guy's fun drug. But, you know,
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: there's some statistic about, like, you know.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: The amount of money in the banks in Miami was
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: like the same as the rest of the country.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: More banks per capita in Miami than anywhere else in
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: the country.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Because they were just laundering money.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: And they got away with it. They literally got away
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Have you ever flown over Bimini? No. So if you
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: ever fly over Bimini, there are all these like Cessnas underwater,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: all these planes like around the island because what they
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: used to do, Bimini is like the closest, it's 50
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: miles off the coast of Florida. they would come in
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: with a plane full of drugs and just crash the
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: plane into the water. They would land it. On purpose?
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: On purpose. Because there's no runway on Bimini. It's like,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: fuck it, we're going to dump the plane in the water.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: They would have 10 cigarette boats, like a flotilla of boats, waiting.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: They would crash the plane. They'd offload the drugs as
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: the plane was sinking, right? And then they'd put it,
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: the Coast Guard figures that they're always coming for them.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: That's why they have 10 boats. They throw the drugs
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: into one of the boats, and they got a one
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: out of ten chance of making it. They just scatter.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: And the Coast Guard goes after one of them and
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: hopes they get the right one. And it's just like, no,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: it's just taking a cruise tonight. What's the problem, officer?
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: But the planes are still all submerged. Like, the water's
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: so clear, you can see.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: How many fucking planes? Oh, wow.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, there you go.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. How many fucking planes are out there?
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I flew over it probably 20 years ago, but, I mean, there's...
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know how long. I mean, but if you
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: think of probably the cost of one of those little
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Cessnas probably wasn't, I mean, with the amount of drugs
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: they were moving on. Yeah, there you go.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Fucking wild.
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: They're kind of landing where it's sort of shallow.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they land and it's like five to 10 feet
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: of water. And what do they, they land at whatever,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: 55 knots. So you just try to.
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: It looks nice too.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, sure.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: It won't be comfortable, but I mean, Sully landed at
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: 737 or whatever it was. Right. Yeah.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Fucking wild. What a crazy part of our culture that
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: that happened.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: That the, the, the whole cocaine run during the eighties
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: in particular, like Miami vice, all that shit. It's like,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: it shaped the entire country for sure.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I just remember that one guy in that
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: documentary who was like, I think he was from Boston
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: and he was like the pilot and he had figured
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: out the route and he was like, man, like we
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: could have gotten away with this forever. It was somebody
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: talked and he knew that's the only way we would
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: have been caught. He was like, I had it all.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: He was clearly really smart. And the guys did too.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: There's a whole lot of people out there that were like, yeah,
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: we had a nice run.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: That's why I got eight houses.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh yeah, that's one of the, Real crimes
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: that people got away with was bringing cocaine into this country.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that got very wealthy, including banks,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: which is just really crazy.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Banks with the jewelry companies. Oh, yeah.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: There was like more Jaguar dealerships in Miami than everywhere
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: else in the country. It was like, doesn't pay to
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: ask questions. So, yep, I guess a lot of people
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: like our cars here.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: You don't say. All cash. Sure. Yeah, we can make
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: you a deal. Sure.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: How many backyards in Miami still to this day have
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: bags filled? just buried somewhere that nobody knows about.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: It's probably worth just checking. When you buy a house
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: in Miami, just dig the yard up.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Well, at least find out who owned it before you. Oh,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: he's a pilot. Get a truck. Get a tractor. It's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: time to dig up the backyard. I mean, one of
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: those guys in the films had millions of dollars just
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: buried in his backyard. They had nowhere to put it.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: They were making so much money. They just had to
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: bury it places.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: That's fucking crazy.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Well, it's why it's a perfect backdrop for the film,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: you know, because, you know, that... the situation that the cops,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: without giving away too much of the plot, but the
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: situation that the cops are dealing with is a very
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: real situation. I mean, so many DEA agents turn dirty.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: So many cops turn dirty. It's because they just get confronted.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: There's so much temptation. Yes.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Like, you take these people, you know, you got, like, six,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: seven people that fucking work for a living.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: They have the same bullshit they have to deal with.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: And there's $ 20 million.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: And it's, I mean, it makes for great, like, drama, too. Even, like,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: you know, with the performances. Because all of a sudden,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: somebody's thinking, like, okay... how are they going to react?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: You know, who's the first person to say, you know,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: I'm going to have to turn this all in, you know, and,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: and like getting to play that shit.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: And for me also, I like, you know, without being,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: you know, sanctimonious.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: Or preachy, because I really think movies, we're talking about
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: like what they do well, what they do very poorly
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: is deliver messages or lecture. As soon as you get
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: into that thing, the audience is like, I, you know,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go to church for that or fucking school.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: I don't need that shit here. But I liked that.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: What was underneath it is like, this is a fucking
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: hard job. And that there's a lot of value, these characters,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: the ones that are trying to do their job are
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: trying to get through the day and just at the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: end of the day have done their job like they
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: said they were gonna do, adhere to the fucking ethics
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: that they're supposed to and at the end of the
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: day be able to sleep at night and believe there's
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: some value in not fucking stealing.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: The money or flipping somebody over.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: And doing all that shit. And that's the win.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: The win doesn't have to be get away with the
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: bag of money or fucking, you know, save the world from,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: you know, the evil scientist laser beam or whatever. It's like,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, if you can fucking
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: live with yourself and say, look, you know, I acquitted
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: myself according to what the fucking expectations were and what
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: am I, true to my word. And I think there's so, like,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: that's a, I don't know, that affected me. I found
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: that kind of moving. And you can't do it if
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: you create, like, if it is to credit to Joe's script,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: like just two dimensional characters, I'm the hero, I'm the villain,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: or this person would never do that.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: They don't have to be real people.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: Like it would be subject to like temptation and money
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: just represents whatever that thing is you think you want,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: or that's going to make your life better. You're, you know,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: it's something different to everybody, but you know, especially when
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: you're like, you're facing like real, you know, the custody
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: thing or the, you know, the sick relative or, or
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: whatever it is, that's, It's.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: A real thing.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Nobody's immune to that kind of temptation. Sometimes I think
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: it's cavalier to be like, oh, well, you're dirty. Putting
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: people in a very tough situation a lot of times,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: particularly if they're feeling undervalued. Like the woman in the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: scene where Catalina's like, I get fucking pissed. I get
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: yelled at.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: I get shit on.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: I'm out here grinding every fucking day.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: It's a lot to ask, and I think it's worth
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: kind of.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: Making that heroic without sort of indicating too much.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: No, it's really well written because there's no suspension of
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: disbelief moments. And that's hard to do in a big
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: blockbuster action movie. There's always one moment in a movie
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: where you're.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Like, what? How did he do that? You guys don't.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Have any of those. There's none of that. And I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: loved it. I loved it. I loved that aspect of
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: it too, where it felt like all of it was like,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I believed it. I believed it.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: And that's really a credit to Joe and his, like, taste.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: And that's why we really thought, like, this guy knew
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: how to make narc. He kind of obviously understood this
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: world and understood that it has to, above all, it
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: has to feel real. And that's why he was open to, like, okay,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: whatever happens, you throw in a line, maybe it's good.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: Can't get you feeling hurt if it's not, you know. But, like,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: you got to be able to take that shot. And
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: we're all down. you know, trying to spend time with people.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, I kind of feel for these cops, a
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: bunch of actors descend on you and they're like, what
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: kind of sweatshirt is that?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: You know? It was like that Michael J. Fox, James
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Woods movie. Remember that movie? I forget what it was called,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: but he's, Michael J. Fox is an actor following around
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: James Woods. He's studying him for a character and James
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Woods is a real leg detective and he's just like,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: get this guy away from me. I kept thinking of that.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: Kind of hair gel you.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: All these questions, you know, but they were very tolerant
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: of us, which was, which was nice and, and, uh,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: and uh and really really helpful you know because it's
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: all it's always details it's always details it's like how
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: fastidiously do you do you kind of mind for those
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: details because i've always been convinced that like an audience
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: it's like you were saying they don't analyze why they
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: don't believe something they feel it they just don't believe
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: it and it's usually because those details are you you
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: don't get those.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: And that's the only thing like i'm not great at
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: imagining something.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Let's invent this.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: Everything that I've done, like, that I like has been
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: a result of something I found in research. Like, for
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: the town, I went down and just went through the,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: you know, all the prisons, you know, out there in Massachusetts,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: federal prisons, state prisons, and sat down and talked to
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: guys who robbed trucks and banks. And, you know, kind
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: of sometimes, you know, you want to know, and then
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: sat down with the FBI guys and was like, what
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: are they like? And the great shit, you know, for
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: me is that, you know, and I'm in, like... I'm in, like,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: wet Walpole or I'm in the prison of Dedham or whatever.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: And some guy said, like, after talking for two hours,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: you know, I was like, is anything just fucking weird
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: ever happened or fucked up?
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Anything you remember? The guy was like, yeah, one time,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: you know, we were coming out of this thing. We
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: robbed this truck. And, you know, we had the mask.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: We got in the switch car. We drove around the
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: corner and whatever.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: We pull up. We get out with fucking guns, the mask,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. And we look over. And it's this
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: cop sitting there doing construction, dude. And I was like,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: right then, he didn't tell me the story, I was like,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: oh shit.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: I was like, what happened? He goes, you know, he
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: looked at us, we looked at him, he looked the
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: other way.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: And I was like, really? He goes, yeah, you didn't
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: want to end up on the wall at the VFW.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: It was like. These guys with full automatic weapons, masks on,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: switching cars. I was like, all right, I'm putting that
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: in the movie. And it's a great moment in the town,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: like in the movie, because they all jump out of
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: the thing. Yeah, I remember that scene. And then, oh yeah,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: here it is. It's great. And it's this awkward, they
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: just stop. And this dude, he sees them. They see him.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: He's like, fuck, we have to kill this guy.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: Nope.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: He turns away. Okay.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: It's such a great, but that's straight from research. I
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: always loved that story. Um, and then he, and then
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: the line is here that he put it here. And
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: it went on and up at the wall of the VFW. Yeah.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: It was a great line. It was a great line.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: It was such a simple explanation for what, why do
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: you think he, what do you think he did?
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: You know, and why?
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: Like, and that's exactly what it would have been. Like
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: that guy, next day's picture would have been up in
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: the wall.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: At the VFW. Yeah. You know, and he knew it
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: and everybody knew it. He said he didn't want to
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: do it like that. You know, that was it.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: And that kind of stuff is, I don't know, it's
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: very human calculations and it's a very extreme version of it.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: But it also doesn't have, sometimes it's not dramatic at all.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, that was an easy decision. And the
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: guy never says anything, I didn't say anything. And kind
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: of can't really blame him. The Town was a great
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: fucking movie too, man. And I knew a lot of
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: people like that.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: From boxing gyms and stuff. I knew a guy who
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: was a hit man for Whitey Bulger. I knew a
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: guy who was a friend of a brother of mine
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: who went to jail for that, for murder, for killing people.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: What town did you grow up in?
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: I lived in Newton. You did? Yeah, I lived in
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: Jamaica Plain for a little while. I lived in Newton,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: but I spent a lot of time in Boston because
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: I was fighting. I was mostly training, and so I
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: was around a lot of these very shady characters who
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: were in the fighting world, and a lot of them
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: had backgrounds in crime. One of the guys that I
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: trained with He went to jail for a little while
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: and then he got arrested because a guy got killed
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: and they broke every bone in his body with a
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: hammer and kept injecting it with cocaine to keep him
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: awake while they were doing it. And then they cut
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: his hands off and cut his head off. And this
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: guy that I used to train with got arrested for that.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Jesus.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He didn't wind up going to jail for that.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: He's dead now, but he was somehow or another. at
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: least peripherally involved.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I didn't do any fighting, but I went
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: around and found a lot. One of the things about
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: being an actor is people will talk to you, which
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: is a.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: Fucking amazing gift. Even if somebody's like, oh, yeah, I
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: killed guys.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: They'll just come out and it's kind of the rules
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden don't apply.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: Like, these guys in the prison, what the fuck are
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: they going to talk?
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: In it for whatever and you know so so you
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: avail yourself of that and and then i had like
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: you know we had people around that movie who everybody
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: knew yeah he did that job he never got arrested
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: and so like yeah people you know meet you know
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: and and uh and talk to him and it's interesting
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: because the such a good lesson for doing this job,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: which is that they're never how you think they're supposed
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: to be, like the murderer person.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: You know, there's always.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: Something a little, I remember one guy was supposed to
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: be like this really violent, kind of loose cannon fucking
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: guy who supposedly had done all this shit, stabbed and
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: killed two people, Faneuil Hall, and shot these guys in
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: a robbery. and he like shows up with his polo
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: shirt kind of tucked in, you know, he's like, how's
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: it going? You know, just like, I never would have
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: fucking put this guy on fucking killing four people.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have a good time.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: So I love that one movie and you're just thinking,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: fuck man, like, this is, and it's a really good
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: lesson for like, you know, we tend to read a
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: script and okay, this guy's the tough guy and he's
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: going to be the, it's like you work with, like,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: I had the fucking, like the opportunity to train with
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: these Delta guys.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: Like, you know, it's the most elite special forces combat fucking,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: operators in the world, I mean, I suppose the SEALs
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: will take exception to that, but just numerically, right? I
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: think there's been less than 900 guys ever in the
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: history of Delta. You meet them, and they're not the
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: biggest guys. They're not the toughest guys. They're not trying
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: to fucking be hard. And, you know, they're the most relaxed.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: At ease.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: And, you know, I found myself just being like, finally,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: I was like, what, can I just ask you, what
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: do you think makes somebody, like, qualify for the Delta Force?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: Like, what's a good Delta operator?
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: It's like, ah, you know, Problem solving.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Problem solving? The guy goes, yeah, it's probably like your job.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: I was like, no, let me tell you something.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: It's really not like my job. I appreciate it. The
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: very big fucking difference. He's like, yeah, you solve problems. Again,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: no one's trying to kill me. See, that's the thing.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: But that was the closest insight I got to, which was,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: I've always kind of thought this about guys like Brady
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: or something. There's guys that just don't get tight and
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: that they are kind of able to problem solve when
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: the problem is like, Well, that helicopter has crashed and
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: we're 200 miles inside Afghanistan and we're outnumbered fucking six
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: to one. How do you think we should get home?
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: Like just having your wits about you to make that
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: calculation while, by the way, you're in a fucking gunfight
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: and things, you know, I'm sure that does make because
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: those are the people where I'd be in a fucking
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: panic and not have no idea what to do. And
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: you get like attracted to the person who's like. seems
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: to have a, like, hey, it's good, we're gonna be okay.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: Everybody get your shit, we're.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: Going over here.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: You'll just follow that guy, you know what I mean?
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: But it's not always the most, maybe it's just because
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: they're so confident. They're not like, I don't need to
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: prove that I can kick anybody's ass. I don't even
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: get in fights, like, I have a weapon. It's just,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: it surprises me how those kinds of extraordinary experiences in
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: people or extraordinary people don't always manifest themselves in how
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: they show up.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: But we have caricatures in our head of what, like,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: these tough people are like. Well, you see that about
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: MMA fighters. Like, there's a lot of MMA fighters, you
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: meet them, they're, like, the sweetest, nicest, friendliest people in
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: the world.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I remember going to one of the events in L.A.,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: I think it was at Staples, and I was backstage
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: and was talking to one of, like, the lawyers for
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: the UFC about, we were talking about Conor McGregor, and
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: he was telling me a great story about him. And
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: this guy walks up and he's in a, like chinos,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: like khaki pants and like a blue button up, like,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of business shirt with spectacles. And he's
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: very small. And I kind of don't really regard him.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm still hearing this story. And then Patrick goes, Matt,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: do you know Henry? And I turn and it's Henry Cejudo.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, this fucking guy could wreck me. Absolutely
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: fucking destroy me. And he, And he is the guy
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: that some dummy would try to pick on. You know
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: what I mean? He's not carrying himself. He just is
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: the thing.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: You find out a little bit too late.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't find that one out late.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: A lot of guys do. Unfortunately. Well, they don't have
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: to prove themselves, right? They do it all the time.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: The same with Delta Force guys. This idea that this
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: outwardly brash, tough guy, usually that kind of machismo and
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: That's bullshit. You're using that because you're insecure. The secure
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: people are very calm and genuinely very friendly.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: Really nice. Yeah. That's been my experience.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, right?
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 4: It's kind of beautiful, too. I'm kind of like, what
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: a great guy.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: And you feel like, that's nice of you to be
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: so sweet to me because obviously you don't have to be.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: I'll just give you my watch if you want that. Yeah.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: No, it is a fascinating thing. It's like we have
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: these ideas in our head, these caricatures. of what a
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: tough man is, what a good woman is, what a
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: this is, what a that is. I think one of
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: the beautiful things about film, when a film is really good,
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: is you see these complex characters and it sort of
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: reformulates in your mind what a person actually is.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's seeing all kinds of different people. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: I completely agree.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: Look, the fundamental challenge, I think, in life is to
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: find some humility. which means actually thinking you might be
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: wrong about the shit that you're pretty sure about. And
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: it means that you kind of have to assume somebody
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: else might have a point. It's not like just writing
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: everybody else off who disagrees with you because, oh, fuck him, he's.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: Stupid, he's an asshole.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: Those are things that actually take work to get to
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: because the first instinct, because you just defend your idea
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: or whatever, it's easier is to just... That it's a
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: zero-sum game somehow.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that two competing ideas can't exist. Or
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: that somebody can't be a good person. And believe it. Right, right.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: Like, you can disagree. We don't believe this.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know. What about this? What about that?
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: But once you find yourself relying on, like, well, I
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: need to, like, zero out this person's humanity in order
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: to defend my idea, I think that's a pretty good
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: indicator that, like, there's something wrong with the way you're thinking. Like,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: because it can't be that you're right about everything.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: And everyone else is bad who disagrees with you.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: I think that was one of the most interesting things
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: about The Sopranos. Is that the main character, the guy
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: that you loved, was a fucking murderer.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: Who would murder his friends... He was a complete mobster
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: and a thug, but you really loved him.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: You loved the shit out of that guy.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: It was so complicated.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: I'm rewatching it with my daughter right now.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: Jim was so good at doing the part that you
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: found yourself being like, I don't know, he probably has
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: to kill him now.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: That's also a great actor. There's a very famous story
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: about Marlon Brando when he did Streetcar Named Desire. And
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Tennessee Williams, who wrote it, like, Freaked out because he
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: was making Stanley Kowalski. He was making people empathize with
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: Stanley Kowalski. And Tennessee Williams was like, but I wrote
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: him as a brute. He's this he was like a
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: two dimensional brute who just came and beat up his
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: wife and, you know, and was just and was supposed
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: to be this kind of dark looming force over the play.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: But Brando was like, no, he's a human being and
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: I'm going to play him like a fucking human being.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: And and it changed the the play. But Williams, in
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: all of his writings.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: That so much more reflects life in the real world.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: Everybody's the hero of their story. Everyone has their reasons
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: for why they're doing it. And people don't set out
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: to be like, I'm just going to hurt someone or
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: dominate the world.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: You think, well, I've got to protect what I have.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: It's like, not to bring it back to this movie,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: but what I liked about Rip was it was kind
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: of the slippery slope. The first time you take a
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: little money, and then, well, I've got to cover that.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: I don't want to go to jail. My reason why
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: I did that. But now I've told a lie. Now
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: I've got to cover that thing. And now you have
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: guys who both live by this code that's very, hey,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: you protect the people who are with you and you
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: gotta have this fucking. And so now it's to a
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: very similar, like by that kind of slippery slope of
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: ultimately find themselves, you know, well, they kill one another
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: because it's really not, I don't believe in that one
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: choice turn. It's like more, how do you find yourself?
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: You dig yourself in a fucking hole because you're just
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: covering up the, trying to fix.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: The last problem that's arisen, you know?
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: And everybody thinks, is of course the roots for themselves
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: is like empathize with themselves. That's what we have to
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: be concerned with ourselves, our needs, our families, our basic shit.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: It's a hard to expect people to go like, all right. And, and,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: and what about, you know, like what they think. And I,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: and I think that's, I think it's a, it's a
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: much more honest evaluation of people and it allows for
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: like complexity and forgiveness and fucking all.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: The shit that's sort of beautiful about people.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: Like rather than this notion of like, well, we're going
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: to be binary, good or bad, perfect or not, whatever.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: And any infraction, then it's like permanently stains you.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: Right. It's like what we were talking about earlier about
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: people that have been canceled. You know, this idea that
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: one thing you said or one thing you did and
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: now we're going to exaggerate that to the fullest extent
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: and cast you out of civilization for life.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: In perpetuity, yeah.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: It's fucking crazy.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because I bet some of those people would have
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: preferred to go to jail 18 months or whatever and
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: then come out and say no, but I that we
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: can't I paid my debt Like we're done. Yeah, can
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: we be done like the the thing about about that,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: you know getting kind of excoriated publicly like that it's
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: just never ends and it's and it's the first thing
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: that You know, it's just it just will follow you
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: to the grave I.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: Think it's also this problem that people have with people
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: that are in the public eye They have this, like,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: desire to chop them down always. You know, and anybody
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: that stumbles in the public eye, they want to destroy
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: their life. And they want to just pile on. And
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: you're not there with them. You don't feel the empathy.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: You're not talking to them. They're not a human being.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: It's just text on a screen.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: It's just like kind of like I was saying, like
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: that kind of sixth grade instinct to be like, oh,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 3: he's in trouble. You know, there's this human like we
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: have dark fucked up instincts to sometimes to like isolate
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: people or get joy out of someone else. They're in
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: trouble because maybe because part of it's saying, hey, it's
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: not me. You know, so if you point the finger,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: everyone's looking over there. We feel safer, you know.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: But it's it's like and to take any forgiveness out
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: of it. you know, is a really fucked up thing
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: because then it makes it impossible, A, to actually go,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: all right, yeah, I did that, fuck shit, that was wrong,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: I get it, you know, because it doesn't matter.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Once you've said you've done it, you become.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: Like an outcast and I don't think anybody wants to think,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: you know, like the sum total of who you are
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: is your worst moment. You know, it's sort of like,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: you know, I think you want to be judged just
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: as well. Are you capable of doing something good or
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: something beautiful? It's not to say to forget, you know,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: there's people that just over and over and over again
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: are doing horrible shit.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: Don't care. I get it.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: No one's trying to like absolve that, but you remove
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: the ability to sort of forgive people or look at
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: them in a complicated way, or else it's kind of
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: become one of those things, it's like a, get one
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: of ours or one of them, the instinct to get
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: like team, tribal-oriented, and it just becomes a sport.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: You know? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: It's also like, who wants to live in a world
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: with no forgiveness and redemption? That's crazy. Like that's just
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: denying the very nature of human beings. And that people
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: do things that they regret. And then they become better
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: people because of it.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: Some of the people I would rely on the most,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: like trust my kids with the most, have done shit
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: that they really regret. And, you know, it was, yeah,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: objectively wrong. And other people have been like, ah, shit,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: I did that. Whether it's like addiction, I got myself
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: down this fucking.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Ride, did this, I did this. They're able to go,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: I did it. I'm sorry. It's real.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: I shouldn't have done it. It was wrong. Actually, those
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: people can become someone that's very trustworthy. Because you're like,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: this motherfucker will say, if they've done something, they'll actually
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: look at their own behavior. They'll acknowledge it. And then
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: you feel good. Versus someone who tells you, I always
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: get it right.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: It's about evolution. And our own personal evolution. And we're
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: all on our own path towards that. The idea of
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: attacking someone, it's like, oh, so you You ace the test,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: like put your pencil down, like you nailed being human.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: You're done.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: If you did nail being human, that's not possible because
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: you forgot about the part about forgiveness.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: You haven't nailed it by definition if you're out there
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: throwing stones.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: It's most of the people that I find, especially when
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: there's someone that's publicly in trouble for something, most of
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: the people that I know that have attacked people have
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of questionable shit in their past. And it's
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: almost like they're trying to hide that by going on
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: the attack.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: Like, if I can point my finger, it's like, who's
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: going to be.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, he's a good guy. Ben's a good guy.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: He's calling them out.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Meanwhile, you know... And if you, like, yeah.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: It's like you were telling me to see Wake Up
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: Dead Man, the third Knives Out movie.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's great. I watched it. I really liked it.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: I thought it was a really interesting, like, you know,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: I'm not a religious guy. I don't like that's, you know... And, yeah,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: I'm aware of all the, like, okay, you know... then
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: there's the religion, then there's.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: People who are supposed to be rational.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: I thought it was a really beautiful movie about what's
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: the role of grace in life. And the really honest
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: examination of that, sitting side by side with, yeah, okay,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: you don't believe that, but it's not about whether you're
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: going to argue over fucking evolution. It's about how graceful
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: are you in your life? How much fucking dignity can
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: you afford other people? And are you willing to recognize
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: and see that There's maybe something bigger than yourself and
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: that there's a reason to to like to try to
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: sort of be to find that grace to get better.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 3: You know, it was really beautiful and kind of rare
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: and really surprised.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: I was really surprised, too. I kind of put it
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: on and not, you know, not not thinking murder. I mean, yeah,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: I loved it.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I loved it, too. I think it's one
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: of the best of the three.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: It was my favorite of the three.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: Those are great. Daniel Craig is great in that role.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: He's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: He goes from James Bond to that and so many
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: other things as well.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: Josh O'Connor, who played the priest, because I first saw
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: him on The Crown. The Crown, yeah. I liked him
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: a lot. Man, what an actor he is. Really, really good.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: How much film do you guys consume? Do you spend
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of time watching films?
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, do you consider it? Well, with the company, like,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: there's a lot. Like, if we're working, we're watching cuts
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: after cuts and going to the editing room. Like, there's
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of kind of work around all the stuff
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: that we have going that eats into a lot of time.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: Mostly just trying to keep up with what people are doing.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: My issue is really that, like, we've kind of developed
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: this pattern where all these sort of movies that come
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: out in a more interesting and very, like they're all
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: jammed out at the last fucking month of the year.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: And so all of a sudden you're trying to race.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: You got homework. Yeah. Right. I got really lucky.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: Like, uh, recently my son, you know, 13 society, he
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: wants to like watch movies, you know?
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: And I like give him shit.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: I'm like, what are you fucking doing? We always look
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: at TikTok and shit.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Like we want, let's watch a movie.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: And you know, he's kind of blowing me off and
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: roll his eyes. And you're like, you know, I mean,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: if you're a dad, you're kind of an asshole fundamentally. Like,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: come on, you don't know what's going on.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: Like he told me one time he was like, dad,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: I said, let's watch this movie.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: I played in the trailer. It was, I can't remember
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: what the movie was. It was a good movie.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 4: And the trailer was good. He just looks at it
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 4: and goes, you know what you guys ought to do?
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 4: You guys ought to work with some of the TikTok editors.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: I was just like, wow.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: I went and told the editors. I told Billy and
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: Chris that day. I was like, guys, I got news
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: for you. But now he's like, all right, let's watch. Like,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: what are some movies I should watch? You got Ladderbox.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: You got into that thing. You know, it's like, so
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: I was like, so I said, okay. What are the
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: great movies? I'll give you a list.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: I start giving them a list. They started watching them.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: And so, I mean, this is like heaven for me.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: So it's like, okay, what are you watching?
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: King of Comedy.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: Like last week I watched Backstreet Driver, King of Comedy,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: all these Scorsese movies. And it really was like, oh man,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: because in my mind, I'm like, sure, I've seen that movie.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: I know it.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: I watched them again.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: It was like seeing, I realized how much better they
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: were than I even could appreciate when I watched it
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: when I was younger.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: And it really and it was just the most.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: Beautiful fucking experience for me to watch my son like
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: taking an interest in it you know the older two
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: have always been a little bit like yeah dad no
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: great but hey you guys want to come to the
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: premiere no not really you guys want to come to
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: the set no I'm good you know.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: Well it's just too much familiarity you know you grow
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: up with a dad who's a movie star just like the.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: Kids gotta and I get it you gotta be your
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: own person do your thing they have all their own
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: shit and I get you know I never even so
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: I never expected it from my son and I don't
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: know that he's gonna you know, and I wouldn't want
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: to lean on him.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: Like, hey, get into the family business.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: Most of the time, it's just like, you know, we
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: go to, like, basketball games, baseball, all that type of stuff.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: But this was a really, it was like, oh, I
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: was like, so joyful.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 4: I sit there and watch movies with my kid.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, this doesn't get better. This is the
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: happiest I may ever be in my whole life. You know,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: right here, watch this movie, and he's like, well, he's
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: telling me what he thinks, you know? It's just like, like, Honestly,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: the rest of it, you can fucking keep it. That's awesome.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: That's the best.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: Well, it's great that you guys still love film. It
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: hasn't become just a job. It hasn't become a thing
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: that you do. You really enjoy it and love it.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was never a job. It was like an
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: absolute dream from the time we were kids. We did
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: fucking high school theater together.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: It was like we're lucky to get it and lucky
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: to– The whole idea that you could even, the goal is.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: Like to make a living.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: Then not have to be like, well, I'm an actor,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: you know, slash a waiter, contractor, dental.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: Assistant, whatever the fuck it is, you know.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 4: Like actually I can earn money.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: I can, and we always figured like, I don't need
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: that much, especially if we have kids. Yeah.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: You know, okay, we can make a living or it's,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe it's fucking going to be dinner theater
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: or maybe it's.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: Going to be right. Maybe it's going to be. There'll
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: be a job somewhere that we can find where we
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: can do this and keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: Well, there's something that, I mean, I love when people
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: love things. I spend time on YouTube watching people fix watches.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I love when people make furniture.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: I love watching people do things that they really love,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: that they're invested in. I think we all have that
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: thing in us where we see someone who's got a
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: passion for something, someone who really loves it. And That's
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: what everybody really wants in life, to be lost in
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: the thing you love, to have a purpose.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: And it's beautiful, I agree. Yeah, and even watching someone
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: else with true purpose.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hypnotic.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: It reminds me of Joe vs. the Volcano. He goes
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: in to buy luggage. Do you like luggage, sir? He's like, uh,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: he goes, luggage. is the central preoccupation of my life.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: Guy's a luggage.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: Salesman and he fucking loves bags.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: He loves nothing more than luggage. And it's the greatest scene.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: I asked Tom Hanks about that when I did Saving
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Private Ryan. I was like, can you tell me about
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: that scene? Because we love this scene so much. And
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: he named the actor, he's a Broadway actor, I guess,
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: the guy. He came in, he worked for like one
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: day in this scene. And he's so good in that movie.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: And then at the very end, he's showing him all
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: the luggage. And Tom Hanks has unlimited money to spend.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: He thinks he's dying. And so he basically goes like, well,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: what's the, best luggage. And he goes, well, if I
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: had the means, sir. And he opens up this thing
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: and there's this trunk and it's like this music plays
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: and he opens it and Tom Hanks is like, I'll
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: take two of them. And he goes, may you live
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: to be a thousand years old, this is the greatest
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: day of his life oh god.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: That's amazing you guys have been in some fucking bangers
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: man Saving Private Ryan, that opening film, the storming of
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: the beach.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: That might be the, the most realistic depiction of war
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: that's ever been made.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: So I remember reading the script and there was all
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: this dialogue, all this stuff that was written. And I
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: came late cause I'm only in the, he shot it
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: chronologically and I'm only in the last, you know, the
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: last act of the movie basically. And, and, uh, and
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: he told me on set, I was saying, how did
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: I go? How did it go? The beginning of the,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: you know, there's that all that dialogue with them on
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: the boat coming in and, And Steven goes, he just goes,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: I cut all of that out. He goes, no talking
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: for the first 27 minutes of this movie. Whoa. And
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: that was when I was like, oh, my God, this
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: movie is going to be fucking unbelievable. I think Tom says, like,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: I'll see you on the beach or something. You know,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: guys are puking. Look at the man next to you.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: He's not going to live through it. That was the script, right?
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: Remember that? It was look at the man next to you.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: He won't live. He's going to die. Two out of
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: three of you are going to die. So look to
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: your left. Look to your right. And feel bad for
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: those two sons of bitches, because they're not gonna make it.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: You know, it was stuff like that. And Steve was
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: just like, nope. No, no, these guys are puking.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: You know, and
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: it's just like, and then just boom, and you're into it.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: And also they did this incredible, like cinema changing, open
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: the shutter, took all the motion blur, skipped the bleach
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: process in developing the film, created that look. And I
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: don't know if they're going to 22 or 23 frames
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: anywhere in there maybe, but I just remember, maybe it's
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: just the open shutters, just pop, pop, pop, pop.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: It just means that instead of, the motion blur is
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: what makes something that moves across the frame quickly. If
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: you look at each frame, it's like a blurred thing,
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: and when you roll those at 24 frames, it gives
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: you the illusion that it moves across fluidly, And if
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: you basically open the shut up so you get much
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 3: more light, each frame takes a super sharp picture. And
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: when you run those together, like the piece of dust goes.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: And so the mortar explosions are going. And you get
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: that feeling that you're adrenalized and you're seeing, you know
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: what I mean? And it's just and nobody had ever
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: done it. And the master of the thing. Yeah.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: He understood how to use the tools and combined with
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: a great idea. And it's that's just masterful. Like, that's
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: just how you do it. There's nobody who directs movies
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: who doesn't go, ah, Spielberg.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: That's how you do it.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: This is, like you say, one of those things, a
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: guy that's passionate and also caring about something with that
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: much passion is kind of connected to greatness. And it's,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: I think, why we love to see that, whether sports,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: fucking fighting, or whatever it is, there's something that makes
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: you kind of love being alive and also love that
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: person when you go, fuck, when you see Michael Jordan.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: There was that whole movie that we did, Airs, really
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: all about what does it mean to be great?
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: And how does it touch everybody and change everybody and
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: make people want to fucking improve their own lives because
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: somebody's just better at that thing than anybody else.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: In the world. It's transfixing.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, I find that really fascinating. Like I, you know,
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: people who are great at something and the mystery of like, well,
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 3: what does that like? And what does that do to
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: your life? And how did you get that way? And
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: what does it take, you know?
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: And what's the cost? Cause to truly be great at something,
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: you have to kind of almost abandon everything.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: I've seen that in various ways, like in that kind
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: of just empiricals, personal study. I haven't seen anybody who
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: I think like qualifies for that, who didn't also seem
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 3: to be really suffering.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: 100%. And you're like, damn, you should be so happy.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: You're the greatest.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: And the interviewer's always like, how do you feel right now?
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: And there's that sense that either it's never finished or
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: it's never enough or they can't enjoy it or they're carried.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: It's that line we put in here where it's like,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: and you have to.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: Be that thing. You have to be that thing, yeah.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a burden, too, in a way.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: And I just see that.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 3: And that's why we want these heroes and people who
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: are great to, I don't know, you know, have their
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: life and have it all in hand. There's all this
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: tragedy and all this stuff that happens too. And I, it's, yeah,
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: that's like you said, there seems to be a real cost.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: Well, there's always a massive cost in personal relationships because
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: there's no way you have the time for other things.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: And the obsession that you have to be the best
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: at something, you have to abandon almost all your concern
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: for everything else. You have to have this single-minded focus.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: And that comes with a cost for the rest of
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: your life because you damage relationships, you feel like a
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: piece of shit.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: And you see that up close and like, that's not admirable.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 4: You don't give a fuck.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: About anybody else. No, I do.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: I just care about this more. You know, it's like,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: so imagine that. You're making the sacrifices and it's causing
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 3: injury to people and you know it. And you don't
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: want to hurt them, but you can't help it. And
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: you're getting rewarded for it. You know, it's... It's complicated, yeah.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: It's crazy because you inspire all these people that don't
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: know you and you ruin all your relationships.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right. Maybe that's why they say don't meet
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: your heroes.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: There's something to it, man. There really is. But it's
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: just we all grow from it. There's a fuel to
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: watching greatness. There's a thing that hits you and lights
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: you up where you want to do more, you want
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: to be better, you want to whatever it is that
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: you can do, whatever it is you do do. You
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: become more– whether it's a great game, a winning touchdown,
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: whether it's a great film, a great song. Yeah, it
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: inspires you. Yeah, it lights you up. And it's the
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: fuel that we all live off of that consumes– like
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: we consume to make our culture move forward.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: And so there's like a sacrificial element to it, the
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: people that do it, and we all feed.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: Off of it.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: And it feels like, well, that's the person that doesn't
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: get enough out of it. Right, right.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: But in great film, I mean, how many lives have
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: been changed by decisions made after great films? Like when
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: I was a kid, I think I was like seven
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: or eight or something when Rocky came out. And I
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: saw it and immediately ran around the block. I've never
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: won in my life. I was eating raw eggs. I
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: was like, this is going to change my life. There's
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: things that happen when you see something truly great that
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: it makes you want to be better as a human being.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 3: I remember where I was when I saw it. Denzel
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 3: Washington played Malcolm X, went to the movies, watched that movie,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: and I remember leaving, I don't know, I was 19
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: or something, thinking, I want to be a better man.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 4: I thought that in my mind, you know, because of
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 4: what I had.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: Seen this actor do and the way, you know, that
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: was the only real conscious thought I had, but I
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: remember having it and kind of being surprised by it,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 3: you know, and it does, that shit can, you know,
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: it's really touched me, you know, a lot of fucking
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: people's work, and that's why you get that, like, you
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: see people and you want to let them know, you
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, and tell them. I always think
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: people come to me, oh, I love that movie. I
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: always feel like, ah, you don't have to say that.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Right, right, right.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: It makes me kind of uncomfortable, and I don't ever
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 3: put myself in with those figures who I think are like, oh,
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 3: but there's these towering giants who have done this.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: I finally kind of arrived to a place where I
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: was like, There was a couple of people who said, oh,
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 3: I saw Good Will Hunting.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 4: It made me want to go out to Hollywood and
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 4: write a script.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 3: And I think, oh, shit, I don't know how to go.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, you all right, man?
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: At a certain point, I figure, okay, you know what?
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: Whatever it is, like, great.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. The cost of your fame, you know,
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: that you have to– there's going to be a bunch
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: of people that are going to come up to you
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: and they want to say those things to you. And, like,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: wanting them to say those things to you is the
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: opposite of of the mindset that you need to make
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: those things.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: Which is so counterintuitive. You think like once you become
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: really successful and you make a bunch of great things,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: it's going to be awesome having all these people come
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: up to you like, no, no, no, I'm doing something
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: else right now. And I can't be all wrapped up
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: in the fact that I'm changing your fucking life.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: And also I can't be satisfied or take any fucking
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: joy in that because I don't think I'm good enough.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 4: I need to fucking, you know what I mean?
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: Right, never satisfy. Yeah, you can't. And that's the darkness
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: of trying to do something great. You'll never be satisfied.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 3: You see it in a lot of the fighters, the
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: same kind of thing, the great, great fighters.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: Well, also, fighters have a very small window of greatness.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: There's only like a certain amount of years where you
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: can burn the RPMs at the red line. And then
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: eventually the knees go, the back goes.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: Is it earlier than other sports? It must be, yeah.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think so. Because, like, Tom Brady is still elite.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: I bet he could probably play football right now. How
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: old is Tom now?
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: He's probably 47 or 48 now, probably.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: I bet he could still play.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but that's a very specific skill position
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: and the way he played it.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: Right, but running back, no.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: Right, right. Cornerback.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: The elite levels of MMA, especially with USADA testing and
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: now drug-free sport testing, when they are making sure that
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: people aren't on testosterone and growth hormone and all these
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: different things, like you have nine years. You have nine
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: years at peak performance. That's legitimate.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: How long has Jon Jones been going?
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: Jon Jones is a freak of all freaks. Because Jon
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: Jones beat Daniel Cormier when he was on Coke. That
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: was one of the funny things he said in the
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: press conference for the rematch. Daniel was talking shit. He goes,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: I beat you when I was on Coke. I mean,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: he was getting arrested. He was partying. When he fought Gustafsson,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: he beat Gustafsson and he didn't train at all. I
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: talked to his trainer. He's like, he didn't even show
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: up at the gym. He was fucking never there. He
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: was never training. He could just show up and beat
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: everybody's ass.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: I saw a thing on my Instagram feed of a fighter,
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: and I don't know who it was, but he was
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: a heavyweight. And he goes, I had the chance to
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: spar with Jon Jones, to work with Jon Jones. And
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: he goes, I knew about it months ahead of time.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: He goes, I got my nutrition. Everything was absolutely flawless.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: I got my sleep. Everything was on. He goes, I
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: show up at the gym that morning. He goes, it's
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: me and five other guys. He goes, he comes in,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: I think he went to sleep at four in the
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: morning or something. He was out all night and he goes,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: he ran through all six of us.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: That's my buddy, Brendan Shaw.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: Is that who it was? Okay. Yeah. It was the
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: funniest story. And he goes, and then I just knew,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: you know, like that's a level. But imagine being that
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: elite and realizing there's another level. Yeah.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Brendan was a top 10 heavyweight and John
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: wasn't even a heavyweight. John was a light heavyweight. It
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: was a lower weight class and he just beat everybody's
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: ass and he said this is his warm-up I Mean
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: he has a unique aptitude for MMA, but also he
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: had two brothers that were super Jones Yeah, I played
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: for the Patriots and Arthur Yeah, and so these guys
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: are super athletes and so they're beating the shit out
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: of each other all the time so they're like constantly
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: in competition and With elite athletes from the time he
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: was a child. So he was just so tuned into
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: competition and he was so intelligent. Like his fight IQ
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: was above and beyond everyone's. And he would study tape meticulously.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: Well, that spinning kick that he did.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: Stipe Miocic.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: Where he said he, and I think he thanked his
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: taekwondo coach. And he said he had been working on
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: this one specific kick from both sides.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: Because of something he saw on the tape. And he
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: got it off and hit this guy so hard. Not
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: even on his liver side. He hit him on the
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: other side. And you see it shudder through his entire, like,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: organ structure.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, his heel was deep into his body cavity. It
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: was so gnarly.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: But he just practiced this one specific. And he even said,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: he goes, it is a devastating shot. Yeah. Yeah. There's
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: not a human being who could take that.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: No, it's like getting hit by a car.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But getting hit by a car in one spot. Right, right, right.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: The size of a foot. The size of a 13-foot.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, here it is. Watch this.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: He sets him up. Boom!
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, no, it's over, it's over, it's over.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: And this is John moving up to heavyweight because light
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: heavyweight wasn't a challenge anymore. He decided to become a
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: two-division champion. I mean, John was a freak.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: You see it running through.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: And by the way, that was almost a little bit
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: glancing because he caught him with a bent leg.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: It wasn't even fully extended, which, you know, was even
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: more devastating. But John realized that as a heavyweight, he
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: didn't have the power that he had at light heavyweight.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: And so he said the most powerful kick is a
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: spinning back kick. So I'm just going to work on
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: that kick over and over again because that's the one
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: tool that I have that can knock a heavyweight out
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: with one shot.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: Wow, okay.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: That's just intelligence.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: It's not just the physicals if he's also like a genius. Oh,
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: he's a genius.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: Well, he's also like, he's the most meticulous when it
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: comes to game planning and study. He will not take
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: a short notice fight. Even a guy that he can
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: fucking beat any day of the week, you can wake
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: him up at three o'clock in the morning, he can
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: fuck that guy up. He will not take that fight
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: unless he gets a full training camp to prepare for
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: that fight. Well, it's just, you know, greatness. But John's troubled,
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: you know? John's been arrested a bunch of times and
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: DUIs and all kinds of crazy shit and he's He's
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: a wild fella. And that pursuit of greatness, I'm sure,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: has cost him a lot of shit in his personal life.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: But when he knocks D-Pay out and then did the
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: Trump dance in front of the whole world, for that moment,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: he's on top of the world. But then, again, it's
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: like the same thing. As soon as you get back,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: what's next? There's another challenge. It doesn't matter how many
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: people love you now. It's not good enough. There's someone
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: else looming. You got to beat this guy.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 3: That seems like a kind of an agonizing thing to
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 3: both have the complete compulsion to have to get to
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: the next level.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: And the next level keeps fucking moving the goalposts.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget. I interviewed Matt Hughes after he lost
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: to BJ Penn. He lost the welterweight title to BJ Penn.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: And I'm interviewing him inside the Octagon. He said, I'm
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: going to be honest with you. It was actually a relief.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: And he goes, the pressure of being the champion and
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: having someone chasing you for so– the whole world chasing you.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: He goes, I'm going to be– I thought it was
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: an incredibly brave moment for a guy to say that
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: who is just this fucking amazing human being, this warrior,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: to say, I just got to be honest. It's a relief.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: Losing my title feels like a relief. And I was like, wow.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: That is– so, so brave to be that honest in
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: front of the, because everybody's like, you just got your
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: ass kicked. It's like, I'm, this is a relief. You know,
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: I took a burden off my back. I'll be back.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to regroup. But I needed that. I needed
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: to just step off the fucking top of the hill
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: for a little while. Jesus Christ.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 3: You got to be like a great, actually relief to
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: be able to say something like that.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a gift.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 4: Instead of feeling like.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: You got to hide or pretend it and go, yeah,
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 3: it was a lot to carry.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: And now I, you know, Well, the thing about fighting
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: is everything you try to hide gets exposed. You're exposed
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: completely during camp because they're doing these round, well, they
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: take like.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: Drive by, I'm sorry.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, smoke up. They're taking like, you know,
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: five guys and they're rotating them in with you. So
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: you're doing five rounds with fresh guys. So you got
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: one guy who is fucking warmed up, getting ready for you,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: and then you're fucking out of breath. They'll give you
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: a 30-second break instead of a minute. And then they're
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: throwing in these monsters. And, you know, you're exposed. You're
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: getting beat in training. You're getting smothered in training.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: You're exhausted.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: You're exhausted. You're always reaching your limits because the only
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: way to surpass those limits is to hit them. You've
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: got to hit them, and then they've got to figure
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: out where their limit is. Okay, next week we're going
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: to do one extra round. We're going to do this.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: We're going to do that. We're going to do more
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: strength and conditioning. We're going to push you past wherever
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: your capacity is right now. So you're always breaking. You're
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: always at the point where you can do no more
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: because it's the only way. And you can only maintain that.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: Like the condition that they get in when they step
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: into the octagon, it's not possible to maintain that.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: No, right, right, right.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: You can only get to it.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: You have to aim at that one moment.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to peak. And then if you fuck
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: up and overtrain, which a lot of those guys do
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: just because they're such savages and they never want to
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: leave the gym, then they don't peak right. And then
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: they come in and they're exhausted and they didn't recover properly.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: And then in between rounds, they're too tired and they
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: can't go out for the next round. They're too beat up.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: That happens too.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: I imagine that level of exhaustion has to be just
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: insane when you overtrain. Oh, God. In an actual championship.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: And you realize you can't bounce back, and this guy
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: is fucking blasting your legs with kicks and hitting you
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: with punches, and you can't get out of the way anymore.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: Do you think– who was it? Was it Khabib who
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: said that they should just do 25-minute?
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, a lot of people said that. I mean, that's
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: a– Songs are playing? What's going on?
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: I must have.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: Just hit my fucking technology.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: The Teske brothers playing in my pocket.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Sorry about that. Well, Hoist Gracie always said that. Like,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: that was how he fought in the early days.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: They just straight 25 minutes.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: Because he was like, look, he goes, if we're on
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: the ground, he goes, I don't want them to stand
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: back up again and go in between rounds. And he goes,
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: I need time to cook them. That's what he would say.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what jujitsu is all about. Jujitsu is
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: all about staying one step ahead of you until you
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: become exhausted and, you know, and then they eventually finish you.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: Like a, like a, you're just fucking constricted.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's the real, that's, but you know, there's
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: this balance of like making it interesting for this, for
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: people to watch. I, I've been a proponent of no standups.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: Don't ever stand anybody up. When a guy takes you down,
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: You get an advantage at the beginning of the round
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: anyway because a striker gets to be standing up when
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: you didn't earn it. So you should never get stood
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: up in a fight. I don't care if the guy's
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: doing nothing. If he's holding you down and you can't
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: get up, that's how it should be. It's more realistic,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: but it's the balance of it.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: Being a sport. People want to watch.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because when people grab someone and take them.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: To the ground, people go boo.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: You hear it in the audience, and then the referee
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: gets a little motivated and he stands people up, and
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: I'm always like, ah, don't stand them up.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: I never thought of it that way, that the beginning
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: of the round starts it to the advantage of the.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: Always, always, always. You're in a position you didn't earn.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: You never got back up. You know, I think they
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: should put them right back to where they were at
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: the end of the round because it's one fight. It's
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: not five fights. So if you start it standing up
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of each round, that's a new fight.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: In a way.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: What you're pitching, how quickly would the UFC go out
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: of business?
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: Real quick.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: 30 seconds they're on the ground and then it's 24
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: and a half minutes.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm a terrible business man. I would give the
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: fighters more money. I would fuck up the whole business model.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: I would get rid of the cage. I would have
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: them all fight in a basketball court. Just put mats
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: on the ground in the basketball court. I don't think
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: you should have a cage. I think the cage gets
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: in the way. It becomes a way to get back up.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: Because you press your back up.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: Against the cage, you can use it to stand back
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: up again.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: And you're in the middle of the center of a mat.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: It's very difficult to get back up. And that's realistic.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: You know, you're using a foreign object to help you perform.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But, you know, there's the whole macho thing about
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: people fighting in a cage. And it's like they lock
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: you in there.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: Cage match.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's just. But, I mean, in terms of. like,
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: inspirational performances and things that you, when you see, like,
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: the human spirit elevated to the highest possible place, when
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: two very skilled men or women are fighting in a
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: cage where they prepared for this for three fucking months.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, the referee's like, are you ready?
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: Are you ready?
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: Let's go. And it's like that moment like is, it's
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: not like anything else in all sports.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 3: I think that's the moment that like people show up for.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. As they build the intensity.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 3: It's the same with like the old Tyson fights or whatever.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: Now it's going to happen. Yeah.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 3: And you can't help but have that feeling once it,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: you know. And, yeah, some fights end up being disappointing, whatever.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 3: But that moment is always there.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: Well, Tyson was a crazy example of what we were
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: talking about with greatness because, like, you could dedicate your
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: whole life. You could fucking get up in the morning
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: at the right time. You could eat all the right foods.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: You could do all the right training. But then you
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: see that fucking guy.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, no.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: There's nothing I can do.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: I have no chance. You know, by looking at him,
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: so he had just a look in his eye. It
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: was one of the only fighters where you just see
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: the other guy was scared.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: Usually they at least hold themselves together where they come
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 3: off like, oh, I don't know. This guy looks pretty tough.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: Guys would fight Tyson and just would start and they'd.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: Feel that moment too. Oh, shit. They're letting this tiger
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: out and here he comes. And it was like.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: Well, we're old enough to remember when he was in
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: his prime and those fights were like executions. You didn't
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: want to pay for the pay-per-view.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: Because they were so fast. I swear, I mean, Jamie
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: might be able to prove me wrong, but I'm pretty
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: sure that they cut to Alex Stewart and they cut
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: to his wife and she was crying. And this is
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: when they're coming to the center of the ring. Oh,
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: my God. But by the way, for good reason. Like,
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: this man might kill my husband.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: We're certainly going to beat the fuck out of him.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: And she knows it. And the world knows it.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: And the guys were ready to quit. Remember that dude,
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: Hurricane or whatever? White kid who fought him?
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 3: He's McNeely when he came in.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: His guy couldn't wait to throw the towel in. He
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: had it ready. You know, he was ready to go.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: All right, that's it.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: The bell rings. He picks up the towel. You got
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: one job. Save your guy's life. You know what I mean?
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: McNeely's fucked up now too when you hear him talk.
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: It's rough. It's rough to hear.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw him get interviewed recently. That's the dark
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: side of the sport, of MMA and of fighting. Like
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: I had Johnny Knoxville on here yesterday, and Johnny Knoxville
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: was knocked unconscious 16 times.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I said. And I'm like, holy shit, man.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: And he seems normal. Like he doesn't seem like he's
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: got brain damage. Now when you're talking to guys and
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: you know they have brain damage, they're slurring their words
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: and they're still fighting. Their words all mumbled together like
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: you have no idea how much they're struggling. And they're
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: going to be struggling in a downhill slope for the
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: rest of their life. It's not going to get better.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: It's going to get way worse because the real brain
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: damage occurs like 10 years after the injuries. That's when
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: it really sets in.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: It just keeps getting worse.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: I mean there's some therapies they can do now. They
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: do in Knoxville did some of it like this. magnetic
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: therapy that they do that re-stimulates neuron growth. And oddly enough, mushrooms,
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: like psilocybin has been shown to regenerate.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 4: Mushrooms all of a sudden cure a whole bunch of shit.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: I know. Well, probably always has.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. All of a sudden they're acknowledging it.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that's opening the doors for
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: them to acknowledge it is soldiers. Because it's always been
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: kind of like a left-wing thing to be into psychedelics.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: But all these soldiers are coming back with PTSD and
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: drug addiction and a lot of CTE from, you know,
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: bombs blowing up and IEDs and concussions. And the only
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: thing that's helping them is psychedelics. So it's kind of
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: like in Texas, former Governor Rick Perry has started the
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine Initiative. So they're using Ibogaine to help all of
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: these different soldiers, which is ironically dangerous. the drug that
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: Hunter S. Thompson claimed Ed Muskie was on when he
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: was running for president. Remember when he sank Ed Muskie?
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: It's from the iboga tree and it is a psychedelic
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: that is in no way recreational. It is a very
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: difficult experience. It's not fun for anybody. It's like a
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: 24 hour trip. I haven't done it, but my friends
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: that have done it say that it's basically like you
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: see your entire life play out before you. You see
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: where all your problems come from. You see where all
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: of your emotional hitches are.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: Jesus. Yeah.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: And with addictions, it has an 80%, I think it's
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: 84% with one treatment, they quit whatever they're hooked on.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: Not only that, it rewires the brain. So the physical
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: pathways to addiction, like someone who's addicted to opiates, gone,
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: completely severed. So you literally don't have a physical addiction
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: to opiates anymore. So with one treatment, 80 plus percent
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: of people.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: That's incredible.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: With two treatments, it's.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: In the 90s. It's amazing.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. And it's been illegal, you know, since like
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: 1970 in this country. The sweeping psychedelics.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: You say Rick Perry has like a clinic or whatever?
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: Well, Rick Perry, because he's worked with soldiers and because
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: he's worked with a lot of veterans that, you know,
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: and he's a very compassionate and intelligent man. He realized like, okay,
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong about all this psychedelic stuff. And so
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: he started getting behind this Ibogaine initiative. They passed it
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: in Texas and now they're doing it with soldiers and
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: they're going to do it with police officers and, I mean,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: police officers experience more PTSD. Like I have a good
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: friend who was a cop in Austin and he said,
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: and he was also in the military. And he said,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: what I saw in the military was nothing compared to
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: what I saw as a police officer. He goes, I
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: was seeing death and violence on a daily basis. He goes,
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: when you're deployed, he goes, yeah, you're going to see
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: some horrible shit, but you're going to see some horrible
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: shit mixed in, you know, over a course of time where,
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: you know, you go out and things go live. He
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: goes like, Every day.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: Every day you're going directly to somebody who's having the
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: worst moment of their life.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: And every day you're pulling someone over and they might
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: shoot you. Like you have no idea. You're pulling up
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: to tinted windows. You don't know what the fuck is
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: going on. You're running the plate. The license is expired.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: You have no idea who's in the car. You don't
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: know anything. And you've seen all the videos. We've all
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: seen videos of cops getting shot down like when they're
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: pulling over a car. We've all seen it. And so
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: these guys are living with this fucking PTSD all the time.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: And then they have to live in real life. They're
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: supposed to go home and they're supposed to just be
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: a normal dad and a normal neighbor. And their fucking
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: head is just a hurricane of chaos. And Ibogaine has
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: been very beneficial for those people to just sort of
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: come down and try to find the root of all
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: this stuff and get them off pills and get them
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: on the straight.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. I don't know why we got on the mushrooms. Well, Ibogaine.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: Because during the presidential elections, he started spreading these rumors.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: And it's in the documentary. What is that documentary? Is
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: it Fear and Loathing? Gonzo.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: Gonzo.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: That's right. In that documentary, Gonzo, he talks about it.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: So he's getting interviewed by Dick Cavett. And he goes, yeah,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: there was a rumor running around that Ed Muskie was
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: on Ibogaine. And I knew about it because– I started
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: that rumor.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: I told it to him.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: So the guy completely cracked. So like this guy was
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: like a front runner for the president and he fucking
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: completely cracked because everybody thought that he was on drugs
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: because Hunter S. Thompson was just running around like saying
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: there's these Brazilian witch doctors who are coming in to
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: treat this guy. It's crazy shit.
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 3: They were like, and Hunter would know.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's crazy that he chose Ibogaine too because
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine is like, it's not a recreational drug and it's
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: not a drug of addiction. It's literally a drug that
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: stops addiction.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 3: No, but he was the guy that would have the
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: whole book full of these.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: Esoteric drugs you've never heard of. Yes. In a really
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: casual way.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 4: Of course, four of us stopped to get Ibogaine at
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 4: the one gas station.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 3: That sold needles and nothing.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. No, of course you did.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it does help people that have brain damage
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: as well. It's supposed to cause some sort of neuro regeneration.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: Neurone stimulation. Yeah. There's stuff out there that can help people,
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: but- a large percentage of these fighters are silently suffering,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: and we don't ever hear about it.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: They say it's supposed to be that the argument is
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 3: because they're not using a glove, like.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: That football is supposed to be.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 3: Wasn't that the sort of rationale that you were going
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 3: to have less impact in boxing because the boxing gloves?
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: No, but remember, it's all the subconcussive blows. It's not
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: necessarily the one shot knocking you out as much as
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: the repeated kind of small blows Like a little bit
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: of brain. I'm sure that's like, they're all bad for you.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like aversion. Knocks to the
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: head are not a good thing to be avoided.
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also what you take in training too. We're
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: only considering what happens during a fight. If a guy
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: has 40, 50 MMA fights, that's 40.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: How many rounds does he have right in the gym?
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, training camp is fucking brutal. And depending upon how
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: intelligent your camp is, like some people are really smart
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: and they'll spar. where they're not hitting each other hard,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: and then maybe one day of the week they go live,
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: but you do it with trusted... They're very close to you.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: These are people that you care about and love, so
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: they're not going to try to hurt you on purpose.
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: But sometimes not. Sometimes you're in a hostile gym, and
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: you've got to spar with people you don't even know.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: They're from other countries. You have a big name. They're
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: trying to take you out. But the amount of damage
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: these guys take... I don't know if football's better or worse.
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: The thing about football is... the big impacts are way worse.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: Because when you've got a 300-pound super athlete that's.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: Fucking full tilt. Get all the way from across the field.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: Boom!
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: Running start.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're getting hit by a truck. But that doesn't,
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: it's not targeted necessarily at your head. So it's like,
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: what what is better and what is worse you know
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: boxing's bad you know it's like you have less options
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: mma's slightly better because if especially if you're a grappler
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: you can take guys down and you can beat them
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: up on the ground but it's ultimately you're paying a price.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: Make a fucking living yeah.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: Sure but for that glory for that one moment when
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: they win and the fucking 16 000 people are on
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: their feet screaming There's probably no drug like that that
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: could ever reproduce it. And those guys chase that high
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: their entire life. And then after it's over, they feel
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: oddly detached.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: Right. Nothing ever rises to that level again. Right.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: You can make films until you're 100 years old. You
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: can make great films forever. You can do the thing
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: that you love forever. They have a little window, a
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: little window of greatness.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: That's the really tough thing about being an athlete. You
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: were talking to Pete Sampras that time. We met Sampras
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: years ago.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 3: He was like, we were probably, I don't know how,
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 3: we were 30, he was 32 or something like that.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 3: And he was kind of, we were like, oh my God,
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 3: you know, he had all these fucking, you know, wins
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 3: and grand slams and he had a kind of vaguely like, yeah,
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 3: he was like, yeah, you guys look, I'm about to retire.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: I'm finished. And we were, you know, young guys who were,
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: you know. Just getting started, you know what I mean? Like,
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: also the thing is you get better at your job
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: the more you do it. Yeah. You know, and so
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: it's that thing with the athlete. I was having this
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: conversation the other day. It's like, You have all the
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: physical skills at the beginning, but you become better at
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: your sport as your skills are declining.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: The body just doesn't want to do it anymore.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: You've got to just become Greg Maddox and compensate with
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 3: all the tricks and location. That's why that drama of
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: the aging athlete is so powerful.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 4: It's like, do we.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: Still have it in me? Can I still do it?
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: Is what I've learned.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 3: Enough to compensate for what I've lost.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: Well, there's an interesting story about Vitor Belfort. So Vitor
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: Belfort was, he won the UFC heavyweight tournament when he
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: was 19 years old. That was like the first event
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: I ever worked at in 1997. I mean, he was
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: like one of the all-time greats for sure. But as
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: he was getting into his thirties, he was starting to decline.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: Then the UFC allowed fighters to use testosterone replacement therapy.
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: And Boy, did he fucking use it. I don't know
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: what his levels were, but they were like superhuman levels.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: And there was a moment in time for a few
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: years where they allowed him to use testosterone therapy. And
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: people refer to it as the TRT Vitor years because
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: he was fucking terrifying because he has the mind of
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: a veteran, incredible amount of experience. But now his body
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: is moving like a 25 year old. And so he
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: was just annihilating people, just lighting people on fire.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: So they're not allowed to use testosterone?
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: No, they can't use anything.
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: No. How about peptides? Can they use peptides? Nope.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: Nope, not even peptides. They're trying to take that and
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: reform that, but there's a lot of ignorance about peptides,
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: what they actually do. I mean, all it's allowing you
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: to do is soft tissue injuries, heal quicker, and optimize
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: your body's ability to produce hormones. So instead of adding
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: exogenous hormones, you're allowing your body to produce them more naturally,
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: and it just makes you more healthy. For a very
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: unhealthy job where you're getting hurt all the time, it's
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: going to be better for the sport, better for the
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: athletes to allow them to all use it. And it's
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: also– there's no long-term damage that's going to do like
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: steroids where it shuts down your endocrine system. So I
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: hope they reform it. But the idea was that there's
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: so many fucking loopholes and so many people cheat. Big
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: camps used to hire scientists. So they had a scientist
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: on staff.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 4: That was not only- What did he do?
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Not only procuring stuff that would slip by
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: the test, because there's like, you know, the Balco stuff
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: with Barry Bond, the Clear. There's stuff probably right now
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: that people are using that's slipping through. And there's a
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: lot of experts that have, like, one of the things
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: is animal-derived testosterone. So testosterone, they use a carbon isotope test,
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: I think, I believe that's what they use, to figure
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: out where the testosterone came from. So if your testosterone
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: is like at a very high level, they test all
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 1: your other ratios. They go, well, no, it all seems likely.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: He's an outlier. He just has naturally high testosterone. But
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: testosterone that you get from like synthetic testosterone is derived
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: from a wild yam, believe it or not. Really? Yeah,
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: it's not animal-derived testosterone. So the composite of it varies
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: when they run the tests on it and they can determine.
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: They can determine that it's a yam-based testosterone.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: It's exogenous, not endogenous.
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: It's a yam and they're fighting. It's not him.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: But if they could figure out a way to, and
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of proof of concept of this. Can
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: they figure out a way to extract testosterone from animal sources?
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: Bull testosterone?
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: Something like that.
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: Well, the taurine.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: They used to inject Hitler with taurine. Hitler was like
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: a fucking guinea pig for this one doctor who tried
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: a bunch of shit on him. And one of the
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: things they did was like inject them with bull testicles
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: and stuff to try to keep them virile. Yeah. But
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: there probably are athletes right now that are using some
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: shit that they haven't figured out yet. So give them
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: any loopholes at all. They're like, no, no, no. Fucking
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: no loopholes. No IVs. No nothing.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: No IVs. No IVs. Like vitamins and. Right.
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: But the problem with IVs is you can mask testosterone
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: and mask steroids by over flooding the body with liquids. Oh,
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: I see.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: So the ratio is high.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: Because you add more water.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: Yes. You would just fill them up with saline, and
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: then when they go to piss, like, nope, clean.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: Look at the ratio.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: Because it's like so much water is being processed through
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: the body that it doesn't have time to show the testosterone.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: So there's a way to mask it, especially with, like,
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: things that you would add to the IV. So there's no,
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: you can, it's only food and approved supplements through, like,
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: really high-level labs like Thorne, like Thorne Supplements, where it's
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: third-party tested. So they can't do anything. But for a while,
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: they let them do it, and those TRT Vitor days
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: were my favorite fights to watch.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 3: Did they stop doing fighting because they thought it was, like,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 3: advantaging certain people, or shit happened that they're like, this
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 3: is fucked up?
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: Well, look at the difference. That's TRT Vitor on the left,
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: and that's him on the right when they made him
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: get off of it. Look at the difference. I mean,
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: that's fucking stunning. On the left though, dude, that motherfucker
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: was terrifying. When Luke Rockhold fought him, he told me,
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: he goes, dude, when I stood next to him at
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: the fucking weigh-ins, he had muscles on his teeth. He goes,
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: this fucking dude was so jacked. He was so scared.
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: I was like, what the fuck is he on? Because
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: he knew he was on something. It's just, it's cheating.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: It really is because you can jack your levels way
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: above a normal human beings because that's what a lot
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: of guys– there was a few fighters that were pulled
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: from cards because like say if a really high level
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: is like 1,100, they were testing like 1,800, 1,900. They
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: were like people that have never lived before. They were
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: like a science project.
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 4: They had different species.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: And they were insane confidence. This person is mostly testosterone.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: Insane confidence because they were essentially like a raging gorilla
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: They were just insanely confident and just it's just so
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: fired up They couldn't wait to smash somebody because they
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: were just fucking maniacal. They're a berserker, you know, so
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: you it's not a person anymore now Now you're a
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: science project It's not you know There are rare outliers
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: who like Tyson when he was in his prime his
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: rare physical specimens and like That's part of the game.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: But that's God. That's nature. This is not Balco Labs.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: And so they won't allow them to do anything anymore.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: And that's why. And Vitor was one of the guys
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: that tested way over the line. And then they just decided,
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: but that's what they're going to do.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: If you say it's legal, they're just going to take
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 2: as much as possible. More is better. And you know, yeah.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: If you say, Oh, you did one CC a week.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: They're like, I heard five. I heard five CCs. And
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: these guys are just training five times a day and
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: they never get tired and they recover like that. So,
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: and then they never have to worry about soft tissue injuries.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: Cause they, they heal like you're a fucking six year old.
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: You know, you just– your body just like– You're like
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: fucking Wolverine.
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, man. Well, that's the thing about peptides too,
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: the Wolverine stack. BP-157 and TB-500. I don't know if
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: you ever get injured. If you ever get injured, get
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: immediately on BP-157 and TB-500.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear about TB-500. What's that one?
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: Thymus and beta-500. Oh, yes. In conjunction with BPC-157, it
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: is a fucking phenomenal stack. And it just really helps injuries.
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: I didn't know they called it the Wolverine stack.
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: That's what they call it, the Wolverine stack.
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 2: For healing? Yeah.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: Because you fucking heal incredibly well. Like, quickly. I was
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: talking to a pro football player who pulled his hamstring.
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: He's like, dude, I shot that shit right into my
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: hamstring for two weeks and I was right back on
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: the field.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, that's nuts.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: I go, what is a normal rehab? He goes, three months.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: He goes, in two weeks I was back on the field.
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 1: I go, what the fuck? He goes, I don't know
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: how bad the injury was. He goes, but to me
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: it's like, fuck. I pulled my hamstring. I'm fucked now
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: for X amount of days. He goes, and two weeks
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: later I was playing full tilt. I'm like, that's nuts.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: And going right into the area of the injury.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: Right into it. Some people think you don't have to
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: do that. They think it's, you know, systemic. So you
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: just like stick it in your fat on your side.
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: But he's like, no. And most athletes will tell you
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: the best benefit is local. Shoot it locally into the area.
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: And it just has.
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: Like cortisone or whatever. What is the.
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cortisone. But cortisone just masks it. Not only that,
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: it has a tendency if you do it too many
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: times to weaken tendons.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it could actually exacerbate the problem because
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: it takes away the pain.
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: It's like an emergency measure.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it takes away the pain. But, I mean, you know,
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 1: then there's the enhanced games that are coming out in
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: Vegas this year.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: I know. My friend had that idea a long time ago.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: He was like, you should just do the drug Olympics
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: for cash. He goes, do it in Vegas for cash.
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: And then the enhanced games came.
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 1: They're doing it.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: I sent him a telly. I was like, they're doing it. Yeah.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: I'm down. I love let's see what a human being
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 2: can do.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: That's what I think I mean, look, when Barry Bonds
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: and Sammy Sosa and those guys were cracking out home runs.
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 2: It was one of the most exciting times in baseball.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: It was pretty exciting. It was fucking great. That's why
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 2: they didn't do anything. Right.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 3: They knew it wasn't a fucking mystery to anybody.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 4: But Avery's tuning in. Look at the Bash brothers.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 2: They had baseball on a strike.
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 3: They almost fucking destroyed that league, and then people started watching.
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they brought it back.
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: And then Bonds is.
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 3: Like, well, these two fucking guys are hitting this many
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 3: home runs. I'm the best player in baseball. which he was,
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 3: and when he did it, it lights out.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 4: He had a year where he only swung and missed
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 4: 26 times.
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 2: 162 games. Three and a half at-bats a game.
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 4: Only swung and missed. I mean, that's just, you know.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 3: And yeah, Maguire would just move.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 4: His wrist to get the ball out of the park,
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 4: and it was fun to watch.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: And when people say, like, steroids don't make you a
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: better athlete, well, they maybe don't make you a better athlete.
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: But if you're a fucking Barry Bonds.
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 2: If you're already an elite athlete, yeah.
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: If you let Jon Jones do all the juice he wants,
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: he'd be fighting until he's 50 and fucking people up.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: If you say, Jon, we've really come to our senses. Like,
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: this sport's all about excitement. Want to give the people
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: what they want. Let people make informed choices based on
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: their own discretion. Oh, it's like that. Welcome back.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: Welcome back.
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, John looks like Vitor in
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: that picture.
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 2: He'd be undefeated.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: By the way, John beat Vitor when Vitor was in
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: his prime. And Vitor caught John in a full arm bar,
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: totally locked his arm out, hyperextended, popped it, went backwards.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: You can see the video of it. His elbow is
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: going that way. He wouldn't tap and then beat him
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: in the next round.
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 2: With one arm. Yep. One arm.
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: His arm was fucked for like a year after that.
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Give that man some steroids.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: Let's see what he can do.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: Steroids.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: Let him be the king of the world.
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's the dream team. It's like, you know, the
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: first time the pros went to the Olympics, whatever, it
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 2: was 90. Oh, yeah. It was so fun. Won every
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: game by 70 points. Yeah. It wasn't close, but it
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 2: was a hell of a lot of fun.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: It was fun to watch. Well, the argument for that
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: made sense, though, because these other people are being compensated
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: in their countries.
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I had no problem.
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 3: And then, by the way, now it's gotten more. That
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 3: last Olympic championship, that was a great game against France.
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: That was fabulous.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, they're going to wreck some smaller countries
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 3: and stuff.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 4: But, okay, you're playing pros, they're playing pros.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 3: The whole definition of amateurism has gotten a little bit like,
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 3: People find a convenient definition of it according to what's there.
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 3: You've seen college sports is changing and stuff. Look, I've
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 3: got no problem if you're going to apply the rules evenly.
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 3: But sometimes when it feels like it's just an excuse
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 3: for the NCAA to make a billion dollars off the
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 3: TV deal, I'm like, no, no, no, you guys.
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 4: You're getting an education.
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: Right. It's like a little bit like, yeah, you're getting
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 2: an education.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 3: You guys are making a lot of money because people
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 3: want to see Nebraska play.
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: It's exploitation. Yeah, and I'm glad they've changed that with
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: college sports because these guys are the reason why you're
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: filling up the seats, and they deserve that money.
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 2: And not even one of them is going to be
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: in the NFL.
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 3: Some of them, that's their window to make that fucking money.
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 2: It's hard.
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: It's hard. And the risk of catastrophic injury is always there.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: It's constant.
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: Constant.
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the metrics for it's like, what is it,
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: a two and a half year career or something? Yeah.
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: Depending on your position. But, I mean, it's such a
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: long term. That seems just fair and obvious.
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 3: You pay a kid to flip a cheeseburger out of college,
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 3: but not to like, you know, come on.
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the great thing about doing something where you're
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: not relying on your body, like acting.
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: You can kind of do it forever. Yeah.
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: Keep going until you lose it. You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 3: It's really, yeah, it's great. And it's got its own
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 3: competitive aspect and it's a lot.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: Of course. But like, okay, great.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 3: If you're willing to bet on yourself and then the
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 3: expectation is, well, I got to do something that's interesting
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 3: enough that people want to watch it.
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the proposition.
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: How do you guys decide like on projects that you,
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 1: you choose? Like, I'm sure you have so many options now.
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: Like what, what makes you say, this is what I'm
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: going to spend the next six months doing.
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: It's really, I mean, there are a bunch of different factors, like,
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: like the director is being the most important one, but,
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: but if you read a script and, and like, we've
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: read so many thousands and thousands of scripts and written
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: so many scripts and worked on so many movies that, that, if,
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: if we read something and it, and it, it's that
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 2: thing we were talking about earlier, you know, you get that,
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: get that kind of emotional, something happens when you read it,
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: you go, okay, well, then you, then you pay attention
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 2: to it. Maybe read it again, go, wait a minute.
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 2: You know, if it, if it, if it moves you
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 2: in that, in that way, then, you know, ultimately the
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 2: big decision is saying yes, because, because you're going to spend.
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 3: It's the last point of which you have total control.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: Right. You know, and then you're in, then you're in and,
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 2: and you're, and you're in whether it's good or bad.
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've been on those movies where I knew
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: a month into a six month shoot that like, this
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 2: is not going to work. And that, that is, that
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: is the worst. It is. I, I came to think
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 2: of that. It happened.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 4: They're going to shoot us all when it comes out.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's all bad. It's like, it's, it's going
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 2: to be, it's going to be 80, 16 hour days
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 2: in a row. And then, uh, a post-production period that's
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 2: gonna be pretty fraught and then it's gonna come out
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: and we're gonna get fucking crushed.
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: And then you're gonna have to sell it.
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 3: You're gonna have to walk the fucking plank and sit
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 3: down with access.
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, so, saw the movie.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 2: It's really terrible.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: How important is that stuff still today? Like, the press stuff.
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: Is that still important?
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: It is, I don't know to what degree each specific
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: thing is. I mean.
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 4: It's kind of ironic because we were talking about coming
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 4: on this show today.
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 3: I remember saying, I was like, doing this show, it'd
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 3: be more meaningful than the rest of the shit we
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 3: do in aggregate to promote this movie.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: Like we spent this whole week in New York doing,
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know how many interviews, you know,
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: the quick ones with all the outlets.
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 3: 105 minute interviews, all the evening shows, the day shows.
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all that stuff. And this, just given how many
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 2: people listen to the show, will be more meaningful. But
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: we think, I mean, that's our, we were speculating. Historically, right?
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 3: If you look at it, that's because they've changed to like,
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 3: all of it feels kind of produced and forced and
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 3: advertised and, and people have become resistant to anything that
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 3: feels kind of like a gimmick and a shtick.
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 4: And you go on and you do your song and
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 4: dance and they say the thing, it looks great. And
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 4: nobody cares.
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 3: Like they're looking to go either because somebody they know
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 3: says it's interesting or somebody that they is trusted.
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: And, A trusted person is in your feed, right?
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 3: And it's your friend or your cousin, or they affix
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 3: that to somebody, which has become a more rare thing,
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 3: like who's a legitimate neutral arbiter, right? Who I can't
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 3: predict what they're going to say before I go there.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 3: There are fewer and fewer of those people in the world,
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 3: even those are proliferation of more and more voices. And
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 3: it's kind of paradoxical, like the form of entertainment is
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 3: getting shorter and shorter and shorter. So you're like a
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 3: seven second, you know, we're an advertising company. We do
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 3: most of the spots that we release, like 15 second spots,
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 3: six second spots for social, the ones.
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 2: Most people see.
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 3: And then there's this one form, which is like long
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 3: form discussions that are whatever, two hours long. And the
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 3: amazing to me is, you know, in a world where
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 3: it seems like you can't get people to pay attention
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 3: more than, you know, a few seconds, there's a kind
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 3: of a hunger for that. So there's like this form
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 3: and that's why you see these are getting more popular.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 3: Obviously you have this massive audience and it's, and it's
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 3: kind of flying in the face of the whole other trend.
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 3: And I think, and I don't know that it probably
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 3: has something to do with like, who do I think
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 3: is authentic?
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: And am I actually going to.
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 3: Willing to extend my two hours of my time to
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 3: sit there and listen through and, and that an argument
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 3: that people probably do appreciate and understand conversations that have
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 3: context and nuance. and where there's like a back and forth,
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 3: they're just much more selective about who they're willing to
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 3: kind of give that sort of voice to in their life.
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: It's also the voice of the public, too, because when
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: people start talking about things online and things go viral
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 1: online and people just start saying how great they love
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: the film or how great this album is or something
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 1: like that, it just takes off organically now.
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that has more weight than anything.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 3: If you feel like somebody else who obviously has no
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 3: dog in the fight is go, hey, this is great,
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 3: you should see it.
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: I'm the same thing.
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 3: If I hear somebody tell me, like, you know, who
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 3: I respect, hey, you gotta see that thing, that means
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 3: more to me than anything, right?
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: Because I believe that.
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 3: And so if the closer you can get to that,
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 3: which is why I think the act of, A, like,
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 3: telling the same, you know, like, telling the same, like,
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 3: story about you should go see the movie to a
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 3: bunch of people with a certain, like, limited reach, it's just,
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 3: it's just not that efficient, but you have to because
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 3: it's like, well, we sat down with our own, and
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 3: Trisha Zanaka, and talked about the movie, you know, and
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 3: you kind of do that ostensibly because it means a
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 3: little bit more in that market. But I think ultimately
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 3: it's like more and more people realize they're being sold to,
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 3: see through the fucking act and this sort of bullshit.
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 3: They recognize that, you know, you go out and sell
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 3: every movie, you know what I mean, the good and
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 3: the bad, and then we got to decide, well, which one,
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 3: and who can you count on? Well, it's mostly going
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 3: to be that, like, the word of mouth, your friend,
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 3: and now you can see that person in your media experience,
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 3: you know?
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think it's also, we know that when
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: you're sitting down with extra or they say like, that's
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: just their job to sit down with people. They're not
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: doing it because they want to.
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like.
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: They got told, go talk to that person. And we
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: got told, go talk to them. Exactly. Go do the ritual. Yeah.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 2: And they say the thing they say and we say
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 2: the thing we say. And everyone goes home and says,
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 2: we did our job.
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: That's the benefit of an independent podcast is that like,
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: like for with me, if I don't talk to anybody,
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to. It's just like, I, I,
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: I literally do the whole thing on my phone. I go,
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, that sounds cool. And that's it.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: But like that, I think means a lot. At least
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: this person is making this choice.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 3: And I've listened to it a bunch and I actually
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 3: find myself agreeing with it a lot of the time.
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 4: So all right, I'll give it a shot.
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: I think also like this format, at least I know
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: why I started listening to podcasts was because in the world,
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: like the divisive kind of the way everybody was talking,
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: these sound bites and all this shit. And, and, and
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 2: it was just like the ability to just listen to
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 2: human beings talk often who, who had different points of view,
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 2: but like had a civil conversation. Yeah. It was like,
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 2: it was such a welcome thing, you know, given the,
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: given the kind of the hysterical kind of, you know, uh,
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 2: frenzy of, of, of, of divisiveness. That's kind of, it
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 2: just feels, it's just like, you know, the, the, It's
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 2: like if I open my phone and look at the news,
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: it's like, fuck. It's like, put it down. It's like
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: I feel my cortisol level go up. And to actually
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: hear people, listen to people I know I don't agree with,
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 2: but listen to them and just think about it. You
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Approach life with a little bit
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 2: of humility. Hold on to what you believe, obviously, but
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: keep listening.
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 1: It's also there's not a lot of opportunities in the
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: real world to have long conversations with people. So people
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 1: are kind of starving for that.
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 3: Isn't it funny that this has become the shared cultural, like,
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 3: we listen to that podcast and then actually experience that.
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 3: And also, why don't people trust the media? Well, because
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 3: the media doesn't do that. Because they compress it. And
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 3: because the truth, it's money. Because actually doing that is
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 3: not with money. It's just ratings and the perceived idea that, like, Well,
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 3: if you simplify it or you position it one way
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 3: or the other, you engender outrage. That's simple or just
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 3: pure one-sided ideas that are simple.
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 4: But the news used to be, the idea was, look,
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 4: here's the FCC.
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 3: We're going to let these networks broadcast their shows and
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 3: make money on it.
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 2: But here's the deal.
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 3: You got to give an hour of that and lose
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 3: money on that hour to tell the news and try
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 3: to tell it objectively. Then it started to be, no,
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 3: you got to make money for that hour too. And
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 3: if you're going to make money, that's a different incentive.
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 3: than tell the truth or reporters or any of those things.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 3: And people try to hybridize them. But at the end
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 3: of the day, you're a more successful reporter. If more
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 3: people watch you because advertisers pay more and then they're
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 3: doing the same thing, looking at their data, you know, Graham,
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 3: what are people watching?
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 2: What kinds of stories? And, and I think this is
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: simple answers because you're just, you're making it into a
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 2: profit game. Those incentives are not aligned with just trying
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: to get down to like even reporting basic facts.
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a weird time. It's like we have
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 1: more access to information than ever before, but so much
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: of it is just horseshit. It's hard to stay balanced.
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why it's good to listen to
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 1: the people just talk. And then you recognize the flaws
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 1: in their thinking. You feel ego. You feel deception, bullshit.
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 1: It's true.
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 2: People will reveal themselves.
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 3: We actually don't need that many editorialists to be constantly
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 3: telling us what to think and how to think.
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 2: Because people actually have pretty good instincts. You know, if
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 2: someone's bullshitting.
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 4: Eventually they'll kind of hang themselves. Like you said, you'll
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 4: get that vibe.
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 3: After a while, he kind of started repeating his shtick,
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 3: and I kind of didn't really talk about what I
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 3: was wondering about. That's like forming your own judgment.
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: Pete Buttigieg actually talked about that being dangerous on podcasts.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 1: He's like, because you go on there and you have
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: your points, but you'll get revealed later. over the course
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 1: of a few hours, like you can only stick to
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: these lines.
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You can only.
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 3: Talking points and bullshit for, and then, and then what
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 3: happens is people just like, there was an art to like,
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 3: look at how great that communicator, they stick to the
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 3: message and they do their points.
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 3: 30 seconds, 60 seconds, but any longer than that, it
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 3: just starts to look like a fucking robot on, you know?
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 3: And like I said, what we need to follow through with,
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 3: you know, like, yeah, no, I saw you use the
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 3: same hand gesture in the same bit with that, but I'm,
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you find out they're full of shit just by
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: having them talk about other things. You know, like tell me,
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 1: do you like cooking? You know, like just like, and
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 1: then you just see like some concocted.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 2: They're thinking, what makes me look good about cooking? Exactly.
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you what, because I love what the
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 3: focus groups say.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 1: That's exactly it.
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 2: Do I cook or do I not?
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 3: Does that make me feminine or does it make me
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 3: open to cultural?
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah. What do you like to cook, man? I don't cook.
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the other thing about people that are online
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 1: too much is they're so concerned with other people's opinions
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: that That they don't have enough time to formulate their own.
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 1: They're just so concerned with how people are going to
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: perceive everything you say that you're like handcuffed. You're like
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: terrified to misspeak.
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 3: I think that in general is a real fucking danger.
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, we were talking the other day. We were
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 3: saying about like one of the benefits of getting older
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 3: and doing this for a long time is. you realize, like,
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 3: nobody really gives a shit as much about you as
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 3: you thought. You know, you just kind of, like, nobody remembers.
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 2: You spend your 20s and 30s thinking, like, this is
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 2: really important, and then you realize no one fucking cares. I'm, like,
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 2: going to come off, and what's going to be? No
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: one actually cares. It's not that big a deal. Most
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 2: people are mostly worried about themselves and their life. Yeah.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's this illusion that they pay a passing moment
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 3: of attention or it's in some story.
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 4: It's like, you're fucking staring at it because it's about you.
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 4: You know, you said that about me.
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 3: Nobody else really fucking cares.
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 1: And if they do, they're usually fucked up. Like something's wrong.
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 1: Why are you concentrating on this other person's life?
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 1: You're probably trying to ignore your own bullshit.
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, listen, man, your movie's fucking awesome. I've loved
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: so much of your films over the years. So it's
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 1: been really cool to be able to have you guys
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 1: in here and talk about this. It's been great.
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 2: It's been fun. Thank you very much.
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: Two very normal, nice movie stars. You guys are cool
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: as fuck.
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 2: Give us a couple more hours. Yeah, exactly.
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. And I really enjoyed the rip. It's
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: fucking great. And everybody, go see it.
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 2: It's great.
• 2:23:48
  Speaker 1: I loved it. Thank you. Thanks for being here.
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 2: All right. It's a pleasure. Bye, everybody.