Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Reaction to the Tigers' latest meltdown: Is this now the team's identity?

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Reaction to the Tigers' latest meltdown: Is this now the team's identity? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:12
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, Detroit Tiger's podcast. I'm Kieren Seckley
0:15
Speaker 1: with me in as old ways as a man who's
0:16
Speaker 1: expecto is the most patronum he is Cody Stavenhagen.
0:21
Speaker 2: How you doing doing all right, Kieren? I had a
0:24
Speaker 2: pretty good start to my Tuesday. I had a pretty
0:27
Speaker 2: good Monday, pretty good Memorial Day. I did not think
0:30
Speaker 2: about baseball. I didn't watch any of the games. I
0:33
Speaker 2: didn't watch highlights, I didn't read about baseball. I never
0:37
Speaker 2: do that for like a full twenty four hours. I
0:39
Speaker 2: did that, and I felt refreshed because of that Tuesday
0:43
Speaker 2: all right, And I came to the park and I
0:45
Speaker 2: was like, you know, Tigers are only five out of it.
0:48
Speaker 2: This has been brutal, but five games out of a
0:51
Speaker 2: wildcard spot. They're gonna get healthier, like again, like they
0:56
Speaker 2: deserve all the criticism they're getting right now, but this
0:59
Speaker 2: is a long season. They have more upside than a
1:02
Speaker 2: lot of other teams in the American League. And then
1:05
Speaker 2: I watched the Detroit Tigers play another baseball game. It's like,
1:08
Speaker 2: oh yeah, it's really hard to talk yourself into this
1:11
Speaker 2: team based on the way. Certainly they've played the last
1:15
Speaker 2: twenty games, I's lost seventeen of them. But even to
1:18
Speaker 2: the start of the season, the brand of play has
1:20
Speaker 2: just been atrocious. It's getting to the point where I
1:23
Speaker 2: don't know how much of that is gonna change. Some
1:25
Speaker 2: players will get healthier, You'd like to think some of
1:28
Speaker 2: these deep slumps will eventually end. But A could it
1:32
Speaker 2: be too late? Or B Like, is this team just
1:35
Speaker 2: not that good? As all the winning on the margins,
1:38
Speaker 2: the things they've prided themselves on for a couple of years,
1:41
Speaker 2: is that just gone? Is that just over? You watch
1:46
Speaker 2: them play for a night again, and it sure it
1:48
Speaker 2: sure feels like it sometimes.
1:51
Speaker 1: Brand of play, Yeah, that's a good one, because I mean,
1:56
Speaker 1: we know what their brand of play is. I'm looking
1:59
Speaker 1: at this is from TIS data on Twitter. They got
2:01
Speaker 1: eleven blown leads in the sixth inning or later. That
2:04
Speaker 1: would be a brand to play. By the way, the
2:06
Speaker 1: next highest is eight, and the average in Major League
2:10
Speaker 1: Baseball is just over five. So twice more than twice
2:14
Speaker 1: the average MLB team you have blown sixth inning leads
2:17
Speaker 1: or later. And this was you know something that this
2:21
Speaker 1: was supposed to be their brand, was not doing this
2:25
Speaker 1: Like that was like the plan. You were kind of
2:27
Speaker 1: really loaded in the back end, and the sixth inning
2:30
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily back end. But you understand what I'm saying,
2:32
Speaker 1: Like you're really loaded in the back end, and that's
2:35
Speaker 1: completely You've fallen on your face. I don't know a
2:38
Speaker 1: better way to say it. You fallen on your face
2:40
Speaker 1: in that aspect of quote unquote brand of play. And
2:43
Speaker 1: then you know, like defense or at least like smart
2:50
Speaker 1: defense was supposed to be also an aspect of this
2:53
Speaker 1: team and as of now, that's certainly not a part
2:56
Speaker 1: of your brand. In fact, the opposite is the part
2:58
Speaker 1: of your brand. I don't know how else you describe
3:01
Speaker 1: run of the run of the mill single to center
3:04
Speaker 1: field resulting in a run scoring from first base.
3:07
Speaker 2: Runner scored from first on a base hit to center field, completely.
3:13
Speaker 3: Unacceptable, nothing special about it.
3:16
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, So like so that that's your brand, like
3:20
Speaker 1: like it, Like you know, Bill Parcells would say your
3:24
Speaker 1: record is your record or whatever, like like I don't,
3:26
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not even trying to talk about the
3:27
Speaker 1: record of the Tigers right now, Like what we're watching,
3:30
Speaker 1: that's your brand. Like, that's your brand of baseball. It
3:33
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter who's injured or not right now. Your
3:36
Speaker 1: brand of baseball is you got this awesome rookie, you
3:39
Speaker 1: got encouraging news from your as of now Ace and
3:45
Speaker 1: the team just is not making good baseball decisions on
3:48
Speaker 1: the field and coming up short and key situation. So
3:51
Speaker 1: I have I shot this down' recording this couple hours
3:54
Speaker 1: after the Tigers lost of the Angels in the series opener,
3:58
Speaker 1: I have a just a quick little of what I
4:00
Speaker 1: would consider let downs today, Cody and the Matt verleing
4:03
Speaker 1: play was the first one that comes to mind, because
4:05
Speaker 1: that not to sound like coachy, you know, cliche, but
4:10
Speaker 1: that's not a talent issue, not a talent issue on
4:15
Speaker 1: that play, Matt Verly, you know, just I guess I
4:19
Speaker 1: would call it laxadaisically feeling a ground groundball single up
4:24
Speaker 1: the middle and allowing Zach Nettle to score from first
4:27
Speaker 1: went so perez with I guess I would call it
4:30
Speaker 1: a misplay. Crucially there in in the that was the
4:33
Speaker 1: eighth inning correct at the wall. Well, same Manning will
4:37
Speaker 1: vest and again some of this I will say, this
4:41
Speaker 1: one is not anybody's fault, but this is, but it's
4:44
Speaker 1: all included. Now, will Vest, you have the ground ball
4:47
Speaker 1: right up the middle, how you lee is right there,
4:49
Speaker 1: right up the middle, perfectly positioned, but hits will Vest calf.
4:54
Speaker 1: I believe it was his calf and and you'll let
4:57
Speaker 1: you know the ending extends there and of course we
4:59
Speaker 1: know what happened after that, and then you know not
5:03
Speaker 1: to get lost in this. This was like an offensive
5:08
Speaker 1: breakout game for the Tigers in a lot of fashions.
5:11
Speaker 3: Uh.
5:12
Speaker 1: I believe Roger had Roger Castile had this on on
5:16
Speaker 1: x first time he scored five plus Cody since May tenth,
5:21
Speaker 1: first first time three straight endings of scoring. This was
5:26
Speaker 1: per Dan Diggerson on the radio and in the and
5:29
Speaker 1: the research team there since I believe May third, or
5:32
Speaker 1: at least the Texas series. So we're talking about like
5:35
Speaker 1: the Bets actually did kind of get going, but it
5:39
Speaker 1: should have been more because he had the bases low
5:41
Speaker 1: with no outs and Torque, who everyone's gonna justifiably so
5:46
Speaker 1: get on him for you know, an zero for four
5:49
Speaker 1: and four k day, just mister grand Slam. But after
5:52
Speaker 1: that he strikes out Zach McKinstry three pitches, strikeout and
5:56
Speaker 1: then hy Lee comes up uh in a in a
5:58
Speaker 1: in a pin chhit situation, I believe, and flies out
6:01
Speaker 1: to right field. So you did score runs at an
6:04
Speaker 1: you did overall offensively breakout, but you had an opportunity
6:07
Speaker 1: to kind of kill the game you score two runs there.
6:11
Speaker 3: It's a completely different game.
6:12
Speaker 1: The like the mood changes, like how Anaheim is going
6:17
Speaker 1: to manage that game changes and you can't do it.
6:20
Speaker 3: You come up short. And that's your brand, is.
6:23
Speaker 1: That even when you do things well, you're not doing
6:27
Speaker 1: things enough. And that's your brand of baseball. Twenty twenty
6:30
Speaker 1: six Detroit Tigers.
6:31
Speaker 2: Well, there's a saying. You are what you do, you
6:34
Speaker 2: are what you tolerate. The Tigers play a bad brand
6:38
Speaker 2: of baseball, and they have tolerated a bad brand of
6:40
Speaker 2: baseball because they, because of all their roster implications, they
6:44
Speaker 2: cannot afford to do anything about it. And apparently a
6:48
Speaker 2: president who was once renowned for finding value in the
6:52
Speaker 2: margins and scrapping the waiver wire, they can also bring
6:56
Speaker 2: in someone from outside the organization. I don't know, even
7:00
Speaker 2: Austin Slater, who had a nice spring training for them,
7:02
Speaker 2: has bounced around. They haven't seemingly made effort to get
7:05
Speaker 2: him back. I'm not saying that would be something that
7:08
Speaker 2: would fix all their woes, but like you are what
7:10
Speaker 2: you do, you are what you tolerate. They are running
7:13
Speaker 2: out the same roster and a bad product every single night.
7:18
Speaker 2: So it's a massive problem.
7:20
Speaker 1: Well okay, well let me interject here for a second
7:22
Speaker 1: with another kind of cliche, but one that I do
7:25
Speaker 1: believe to be true is that I think this is
7:28
Speaker 1: from Bill Belichick or the Belichick tree is getting high
7:31
Speaker 1: marks on this podcast. So far, you're either coaching it
7:33
Speaker 1: or allowing it to happen. So there were some people
7:38
Speaker 1: that said maybe the I mean on X, Yeah, you know,
7:42
Speaker 1: do you pull Matt after a play like like like
7:45
Speaker 1: what we just described and and I don't know about
7:48
Speaker 1: that because I don't really know what many others you have, huh.
7:52
Speaker 1: But at a certain point, you know, you're either coaching
7:56
Speaker 1: or allowing it to happen. And we're into June basically almost,
8:01
Speaker 1: and it's too much.
8:03
Speaker 3: It's too much.
8:04
Speaker 1: And the fact that tolerate allowed to happen is like,
8:09
Speaker 1: it's just unacceptable brand of baseball. That might be the theme.
8:12
Speaker 1: It's just branded baseball unacceptable.
8:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the idea of like Matt Vierling should
8:17
Speaker 2: be benched. I have a few thoughts on that. I'll
8:19
Speaker 2: start with the play is just an atrocious play, Like A. J.
8:22
Speaker 2: Hinch described it after the game as like not playing
8:25
Speaker 2: fast enough, which I think is code for like, it
8:29
Speaker 2: was kind of lazy. It was pretty blatantly lazy. We
8:32
Speaker 2: have to stop adding an extra s and lasadaisical as
8:35
Speaker 2: a society. It's just lackadaisical. Huge problem in society as well. Anyway. Yeah,
8:42
Speaker 2: like he he doesn't appear to be getting to the
8:46
Speaker 2: ball all that fast and then he comes up and
8:48
Speaker 2: kind of throws off one foot a lazy throw that
8:51
Speaker 2: doesn't even hit was up all the McGonagall or m
8:55
Speaker 2: chinstry workman whatever. It didn't even enhim it bounced like
8:59
Speaker 2: so it was just it was a lazy throw. And
9:01
Speaker 2: credit to Natto for taking full advantage for applying pressure.
9:08
Speaker 2: Pretty risky, pretty reckless, you would think right to try
9:11
Speaker 2: to score from first on a single like that. But
9:13
Speaker 2: I don't know if that was in their scouting report
9:15
Speaker 2: or if he could just tell by Matt Verrling's body
9:18
Speaker 2: language that that throw was not coming into the infield
9:20
Speaker 2: with any urgency. And certainly took full advantage. Now, well,
9:26
Speaker 2: I'm not fully on board with benching Matt Verling. It
9:30
Speaker 2: is a little it's very uncharacteristic for him. This is
9:32
Speaker 2: a guy who's been your heart and hustle nominee, who
9:37
Speaker 2: plays really hard, generally like you. I like the way
9:40
Speaker 2: Matt Ververling plays the game. Is that the guy you
9:44
Speaker 2: want to make an example of. I don't know. I
9:46
Speaker 2: would say that speaks to this can yes, this contagion
9:51
Speaker 2: that seems to have spread throughout this team where even
9:53
Speaker 2: someone like Matt Vierling is now making a lackadaisical play.
9:58
Speaker 2: When you're dejected, when you're gonna lose streak, when your
10:00
Speaker 2: teammates aren't making plays something psychologically, it becomes a little
10:04
Speaker 2: easier for that to happen to anybody. And then the
10:06
Speaker 2: real reason they're trying to win a game here, every
10:10
Speaker 2: single game counts. With every loss, you are one lost
10:13
Speaker 2: closer to trading Trek Scougle and your season being over.
10:18
Speaker 2: And if you bench Matt Vierling, you were moving Wincel Perez.
10:22
Speaker 2: He's your only other center fielder right now, and your
10:25
Speaker 2: only outfielder on the bench is Jami Jones. Now you
10:29
Speaker 2: could move Zach mckinstreet to the outfield and put Zack
10:32
Speaker 2: short in the game. I'm not sure you feel good
10:36
Speaker 2: about either of those options. If Jami Jones is in
10:39
Speaker 2: right field that ball Winstle dropped at the wall, I'm
10:42
Speaker 2: not sure Jami is at that ball. I don't know
10:44
Speaker 2: what happens on that ball. If Zach shorts in the game,
10:47
Speaker 2: I like, who knows, you know how some of these
10:49
Speaker 2: other innings play out, So I guess how you Lee
10:54
Speaker 2: could have entered earlier. But like that's part of it.
10:57
Speaker 2: You know, that move doesn't come for free, and it'd
10:59
Speaker 2: probably be a little easier to do that with an
11:01
Speaker 2: infielder than an outfielder. Given where their Tigers are with
11:04
Speaker 2: their roster. It actually, in a way really highlights how
11:07
Speaker 2: sorely they miss both Parker Meadows and Hovey bayas they're
11:10
Speaker 2: in this buying where view links playing center all the time,
11:13
Speaker 2: and it's it's it's started to show like not just
11:17
Speaker 2: what that means for Ciner, but what that means for
11:19
Speaker 2: the rest of your roster.
11:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
11:21
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And just side note, Zach netto my guy from day.
11:27
Speaker 2: One, you're right, You're right, my guy from day one,
11:30
Speaker 2: I would say, I don't know, if I r a
11:32
Speaker 2: j maybe i'd go in that locker room and say, hey,
11:33
Speaker 2: next guy who makes a mental error or gets picked off,
11:38
Speaker 2: you're come and sit next to me.
11:41
Speaker 3: Can't say that'd be the wrong move.
11:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we're gonna get to some more injury
11:45
Speaker 1: updates on the teams a mixed bag, as much has
11:50
Speaker 1: been the case this season.
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12:56
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here real quick, I gotta go
12:58
Speaker 1: on short tan here, Cody. I you know, I remember
13:02
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago we were doing this podcast
13:04
Speaker 1: and the Angels were in town and Show Hey had
13:06
Speaker 1: one of those like classic show Hey games, home run pitching,
13:10
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and and the and the Tigers fans
13:14
Speaker 1: really appreciated what they were seeing. You're seeing something that's
13:16
Speaker 1: unique and historical and and like it made me feel
13:20
Speaker 1: good about the fan base as like great Baseball Town.
13:26
Speaker 1: I feel the opposite about that right now, because Mike
13:30
Speaker 1: Trout is one of the best players in the history
13:34
Speaker 1: of the game. Mike Trout is the best player of
13:40
Speaker 1: our generation right and and one that you should be thinking.
13:46
Speaker 1: You're lucky stars you get to watch in person. So
13:50
Speaker 1: therefore I'm not down for any overrated chance. I'm sorry
13:55
Speaker 1: I'm just not down for it. I don't believe that's
13:57
Speaker 1: that's a good baseball karma. I don't believe that it's,
14:00
Speaker 1: you know, recognizing what you have, like the fortune of scene.
14:05
Speaker 3: Like, I'm just that down for it.
14:07
Speaker 1: And that was like on a list of disappointments today,
14:10
Speaker 1: that's one that I can't let let go unmansion.
14:12
Speaker 3: So if that makes me a.
14:13
Speaker 1: Popular I don't know, but that actually legitimately pissed me off.
14:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he speaks to just how empty and quiet
14:21
Speaker 2: the ballpark is right now that you know, I think
14:23
Speaker 2: some fans just being a little obnoxious, trying to entertain themselves,
14:26
Speaker 2: started the chan and it spreads a little and then
14:29
Speaker 2: all of a sudden everyone can hear it. I'm not
14:31
Speaker 2: sure it's a reflection of like the full fan base.
14:33
Speaker 2: This is silly Mike Trout's uh. I would argue Mike
14:36
Speaker 2: Trout's underrated at this point in his career. There were
14:39
Speaker 2: articles over the winner being like what happened to Mike Trout?
14:44
Speaker 2: And granted he wasn't too Troutyan standards, but he had
14:47
Speaker 2: a one twenty four ops plus last year. That's better
14:50
Speaker 2: than everyone on the current Sigers except Riley Green and
14:53
Speaker 2: Kevin McGonagall. So even like the bad aging version of
14:57
Speaker 2: Mike Trout is a really good player, and he's obviously rebounded,
15:01
Speaker 2: he's back to playing center field. He's doing some things
15:04
Speaker 2: nicely this year. Yeah, and you know a guy who's
15:07
Speaker 2: carried himself in a classy manner throughout his career too.
15:11
Speaker 2: It's not even like you know, when a Rod would
15:13
Speaker 2: come to town and people are just mean to him
15:15
Speaker 2: because he's a Rod like that. I think Mike Trout
15:19
Speaker 2: deserves better than that. I think that's a great point.
15:21
Speaker 2: People should probably appreciate seeing an all time great and
15:25
Speaker 2: not be chanting overrated just to just to have one.
15:29
Speaker 5: Yeah.
15:29
Speaker 1: I mean I grew up like my dad being like
15:31
Speaker 1: I saw Mickey Mannele in person, I saw Harmon Killover
15:34
Speaker 1: in person, I saw you know, insert any American League player, and.
15:38
Speaker 3: Like I value that kind of stuff.
15:40
Speaker 1: So, like, you get to see Mike Trout, especially at
15:42
Speaker 1: this point in his career, like obviously he's on the
15:43
Speaker 1: back nine, you get to see Mike Trout play treasure it.
15:47
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's end of end up tangent there. Let's
15:51
Speaker 1: get to some some injury updates.
15:54
Speaker 3: Cody we'll go with Terror Schooble first.
15:57
Speaker 1: You got to see him throw a live pen with
16:01
Speaker 1: hitters and with a home run. But I guess I
16:08
Speaker 1: mean you were there, tell us about it, like positive vibes.
16:12
Speaker 1: That aspect of was that part of your early good
16:15
Speaker 1: vibes was seen.
16:16
Speaker 2: It was like seeing Schooble and here in Schooble saying, hey,
16:20
Speaker 2: the reality is we're only five games out of it.
16:22
Speaker 2: You know, that's just the reality of the situation. That
16:27
Speaker 2: was pretty good vibes. Jami Jones did hit a homer
16:29
Speaker 2: off Schooble, but he simulated two point two innings. Everything
16:34
Speaker 2: else would have been outs. He's facing Gage workmen and
16:37
Speaker 2: Zach Short three punch outs. You know, they didn't have
16:41
Speaker 2: the radar or that any of the Hawkeye track man
16:44
Speaker 2: daddle on the scoreboard like they have for some other bullpins.
16:48
Speaker 2: So maybe still trying to keep that on the download
16:50
Speaker 2: a little bit. But he looked pretty good to me.
16:53
Speaker 2: It was interesting to talk to Trek after and vibes
16:56
Speaker 2: were all positive, but he was kind of back to
16:58
Speaker 2: He's back to talking like Eric Scooble. He's like, yeah,
17:01
Speaker 2: I only landed one of my curve balls for strikes
17:03
Speaker 2: and you know, some of my sinkers weren't in you know,
17:06
Speaker 2: I missspin away a few times, and like, oh, we're
17:08
Speaker 2: talking ball, we're talking pitching. These are actually good signs.
17:11
Speaker 2: Even if he didn't feel one hundred percent hyped about
17:16
Speaker 2: his execution, he threw forty pitches. So the question kind
17:21
Speaker 2: of becomes what is next? He is going to do
17:23
Speaker 2: this again, I'm assuming in five days. The question then
17:29
Speaker 2: is like, Okay, how much volume are they going to build?
17:31
Speaker 2: For him to be throwing a forty pitch live bullpen
17:36
Speaker 2: less than three weeks out from surgery is really remarkable.
17:40
Speaker 2: But it's only forty pitches. So the idea that he's
17:42
Speaker 2: coming back to the majors and the snap of a
17:44
Speaker 2: finger not quite you know, can you even push it
17:47
Speaker 2: up to sixty five pitches, which is kind of what
17:50
Speaker 2: Justin Ferlander has been at. I'm not sure. Let's just
17:53
Speaker 2: say that's the target. If you really want to just
17:57
Speaker 2: beat things along, you could then send amount on rehab assignment,
18:00
Speaker 2: which Ajhinch again reiterated that Schoobol will do a rehab assignment,
18:05
Speaker 2: and if you wanted to do one rehab assignment and
18:08
Speaker 2: then put them in the in the big leagues. That's
18:10
Speaker 2: even that is fifteen days. I wouldn't be shocked if
18:13
Speaker 2: there's at least one more outing in there in some fashion,
18:16
Speaker 2: which puts us at twenty days. But it seems like
18:20
Speaker 2: maybe we're getting an idea of what this looks like.
18:22
Speaker 2: Some of it is going to depend on how Scoobl's recovering,
18:25
Speaker 2: how much volume he can build, So there's a chance
18:28
Speaker 2: it's even a little longer than that. But I would
18:30
Speaker 2: say the idea of Scooble pitching at some point in
18:33
Speaker 2: June starting to look pretty nice, and it is really remarkable.
18:37
Speaker 2: It's Guy's surgery on Zebo three weeks ago.
18:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, again, something that like I value just kind of
18:45
Speaker 1: following along is like things that are unprecedented. Yeah, things
18:49
Speaker 1: that you just like you just can't grasp, Like, that's
18:54
Speaker 1: pretty cool. So if I had a positive attitude right now,
18:57
Speaker 1: it's like, this is pretty neat. Regardless of all this
19:00
Speaker 1: outside stuff. This is pretty neat, and you are kind
19:02
Speaker 1: of seen like I don't want to say history in
19:04
Speaker 1: the making, but something that's gonna be cited for a
19:06
Speaker 1: long time, you know what I mean.
19:07
Speaker 3: So, uh so that that is pretty cool.
19:10
Speaker 2: It's a great point. Unfortunately, these schoobl trade thing is
19:14
Speaker 2: now such a big part of the conversation, Like it's
19:17
Speaker 2: an awkward elephant in the room for everybody. And you know,
19:22
Speaker 2: Terrek didn't mention this, and no one even asked him
19:24
Speaker 2: about it. I don't really think it'd be fair to
19:26
Speaker 2: ask him about it at this point. But like, I
19:30
Speaker 2: feel like Trek School's got to be watching these games, like,
19:34
Speaker 2: all right, am I gonna have to look for real estate,
19:37
Speaker 2: you know, for a couple of months, and can I
19:39
Speaker 2: get a short term lease elsewhere? You know, what are
19:41
Speaker 2: the kids going to be doing this fall? Like those
19:45
Speaker 2: his thoughts got to be in the back of his mind.
19:47
Speaker 2: I'm not saying he wants that to happen, to be clear,
19:49
Speaker 2: I think he's I think he's rooting for this team.
19:51
Speaker 2: I think it's eating at him that he can't be
19:54
Speaker 2: out there helping these guys. But it's it's getting awkward fast.
20:00
Speaker 1: Well, somebody who is also not out there helping the
20:04
Speaker 1: team is Hobby or Baiaz, who is still recovering from
20:08
Speaker 1: his ankle injury. I guess I don't know if you
20:10
Speaker 1: call it a setback, I'll say setback slash non progression. Uh,
20:16
Speaker 1: because they are they are shutting him down. Is that?
20:20
Speaker 3: Is that correct?
20:21
Speaker 1: But he's just he is he's gonna have to go
20:23
Speaker 1: see a specialist, and so it's just not healing.
20:26
Speaker 3: At the rate. It's been.
20:29
Speaker 1: Almost about exactly a month since he got injured, I believe,
20:32
Speaker 1: So it's it's not that uncommon for ankle sprains to
20:34
Speaker 1: take this long, but it's still not encouraging.
20:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes severe ankle sprains man then they can really
20:40
Speaker 2: linger that. You know, maybe there is they have to
20:44
Speaker 2: go check further. Is there some sort of ligament issue
20:46
Speaker 2: or something else going on? So I don't know a
20:49
Speaker 2: ton beyond everything you just stated. It's getting further evaluation.
20:54
Speaker 2: He sounds like he never got to running full speed.
21:00
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll learn more after he visits the specialist. But
21:03
Speaker 2: certainly doesn't seem like good news. Certainly doesn't seem like
21:05
Speaker 2: he's going to be back for a while. Still.
21:08
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing that you know, it kind of
21:12
Speaker 1: relates to our talk about Matty V is that have
21:16
Speaker 1: we and some people have asked this on X have
21:19
Speaker 1: we underrated, overrated or properly rated like what Hobby's absence
21:26
Speaker 1: means to this team? Because yeah, if you look at
21:28
Speaker 1: his Baseball reference page, it's not anything special. He was
21:31
Speaker 1: hitting I think two point fifty two or something like
21:35
Speaker 1: that with like basically no power. Kind of felt like
21:41
Speaker 1: regression was probably gonna come. But play shortstop, can play
21:46
Speaker 1: center field, And that conundrum that you spoke about with
21:51
Speaker 1: with with Matt ver Lane earlier doesn't exist if Hobby
21:55
Speaker 1: is available to play, because obviously he gives you a
21:58
Speaker 1: lot of flexibility. So I don't know, have we had
22:01
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like we've slightly underrated just because
22:04
Speaker 1: of the usage aspect of it.
22:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right.
22:10
Speaker 2: Hovey goes down is like, well, that's a bummer, But like,
22:13
Speaker 2: was he really that productive, especially offensively? Are you really
22:17
Speaker 2: missing his bat right now? It's actually bad enough that
22:21
Speaker 2: you would love two fifty six with minimal power, but
22:25
Speaker 2: like not really, you know, but the ripple effects on
22:29
Speaker 2: the roster. What it's meant at positions that were already
22:32
Speaker 2: thin where you didn't really have great replacement options is
22:36
Speaker 2: showing up. And in theory you liked that Winsle Paris
22:41
Speaker 2: could fill in in center, but Winstle's I just think
22:44
Speaker 2: such a disaster mentally. I think his struggles at the
22:47
Speaker 2: plate easy to forget. He homered in tuesday Nights game.
22:51
Speaker 2: I think his struggles at the plate have crept into
22:55
Speaker 2: his play in the field. He's a disaster in right field.
22:58
Speaker 2: Forget about center. Matt Vierling's laid out there a ton
23:01
Speaker 2: and a little overexposed, or you're limited in the moves
23:04
Speaker 2: you can make. Your outfield defense is just not very
23:07
Speaker 2: good right now, even shortstop. I mean, you know, we've
23:10
Speaker 2: seen what they've brought in to try to fill that gap.
23:14
Speaker 2: Here's a positive from Tuesday. I like that aj Hinch
23:16
Speaker 2: played Zach McKinstry at shortstop, first time mckinstrey has started
23:19
Speaker 2: at short all season. I was talking about this in January,
23:24
Speaker 2: wanted to see more McKinstry at short, and it took
23:28
Speaker 2: until almost June for that to happen. In a start,
23:34
Speaker 2: some of that Glabor Torres being out has affected mckinstrey's
23:37
Speaker 2: played some more second. Mckinstrey's played a little right field
23:40
Speaker 2: as well. But that could maybe be something that could
23:43
Speaker 2: that could both improve your defense and maybe your offense
23:47
Speaker 2: would be a little more mckinsrey at short. But yes,
23:51
Speaker 2: center field man, your your options just aren't great. Kind
23:54
Speaker 2: of same at short and not having Hobby Baiaz in
23:58
Speaker 2: that regard, I think is under.
24:02
Speaker 1: We're gonna get to options at another position on the
24:05
Speaker 1: other side of this break, that would be first base.
24:08
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25:30
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, you know, obviously the one
25:35
Speaker 1: of the faces of today's game would be Specier Torgelsen,
25:37
Speaker 1: a couple of huge strikeouts for in total only got
25:41
Speaker 1: on base because he got drilled in the back.
25:43
Speaker 3: And it's one ninety eight Cody.
25:48
Speaker 1: It's you know, he has the seven home runs and
25:52
Speaker 1: twenty Ribby's. But it's a lot of wanting and to
25:56
Speaker 1: kind of add to the theme, it's also a lack
25:59
Speaker 1: of options. There is the Cold Keith piece of this,
26:01
Speaker 1: and Cold Keith did have himself a nice game. He
26:05
Speaker 1: also does not have a home run and he also
26:08
Speaker 1: is somebody that has yet to you know, whether it's
26:12
Speaker 1: his fault or not, has yet to be trusted fully
26:16
Speaker 1: to play a complete game like that is not his
26:18
Speaker 1: role right now. He does not face left handed pitching,
26:21
Speaker 1: so those are basically your options. Yeah, putting barely in
26:24
Speaker 1: a first base So so what.
26:27
Speaker 3: Do we do here, Cody? What do we do about
26:29
Speaker 3: first base?
26:30
Speaker 1: Because from my money, as of now, it's kind of
26:33
Speaker 1: like a write it out situation because I don't see
26:35
Speaker 1: any other options that the team is comfortable with.
26:38
Speaker 3: So I like it.
26:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. As I've said before, the Spencer
26:44
Speaker 2: Toles and conversation like has just exhausted me. People think
26:49
Speaker 2: I'm a tour cater, Like I'm not trying to bing
26:52
Speaker 2: that drum, so I don't even really want to talk
26:54
Speaker 2: about it. Maybe it'd be a better conversation of cold Keith,
26:57
Speaker 2: where hitting for power or or playing better. Cold Keith
27:01
Speaker 2: is almost being used as a platoon DH, which I
27:04
Speaker 2: think is a little bit strange. I don't know if
27:07
Speaker 2: there's something else going on, like maybe he's nursing an
27:11
Speaker 2: injury that we don't know about or something, or if
27:14
Speaker 2: that's just a reflection of like what the team or
27:17
Speaker 2: what aj Hinch thinks of him in a way, I'd
27:21
Speaker 2: like to see cold Keith get more consistent at bats,
27:23
Speaker 2: maybe even face lefties a little bit while your roster
27:27
Speaker 2: is in this condition where you don't have a ton
27:29
Speaker 2: of better options. But that's not the way he's being used,
27:32
Speaker 2: so that maybe that's not great, but I don't think
27:37
Speaker 2: it's reaching to say Spencer Torkolsen has to be more
27:40
Speaker 2: productive on a consistent basis. He is still a very
27:44
Speaker 2: important part of this team despite his struggles, and when
27:48
Speaker 2: you're going to o for four with four k's, that's
27:51
Speaker 2: that's not gonna cut it. We're twenty eight minutes into this.
27:55
Speaker 2: We haven't talked about the pitching change. The managerial topic
27:59
Speaker 2: of the night, the lack of pitching change will Vest.
28:04
Speaker 2: No one was warming. I don't believe until will Vest
28:07
Speaker 2: had reached thirty pitches he had done an up down
28:10
Speaker 2: in that game, which he doesn't really do a lot.
28:13
Speaker 2: He looked pretty ghasted to me. The Angels broadcast, I think,
28:17
Speaker 2: had pointed that out. He couldn't get a fastball or
28:21
Speaker 2: a slider or anything past Zachnetto, which led to the
28:24
Speaker 2: play you described. It hit off Vest and led to
28:27
Speaker 2: a single. Looks like you know, feder came to the
28:30
Speaker 2: mountain before Trout came up. It looked like they chose
28:33
Speaker 2: to be really careful. They threw him a bunch of
28:35
Speaker 2: sinkers in and one slider that went the other way.
28:38
Speaker 2: Maybe said, hey, either get him to beat a sinker
28:40
Speaker 2: into the ground, or we wouldn't hate walking him here.
28:44
Speaker 2: But by the time Trout walks, that pitch count is
28:47
Speaker 2: up von Grissom. In a normal world, you'd feel, okay,
28:51
Speaker 2: will Vest first, Von Grissom. But just reading Vest like
28:55
Speaker 2: the body lingers the stuff again had the velo was
28:59
Speaker 2: slightly down, the has been down all year. You like
29:01
Speaker 2: will Vest a lot more at ninety seven, ninety eight,
29:04
Speaker 2: ninety nine than you do ninety four ninety five. I
29:07
Speaker 2: feel like I've been saying that for like ten months now.
29:11
Speaker 2: Still has me concerned, And so I don't know if
29:16
Speaker 2: I put myself in aj Hinch's shoes. Is it just like, hey,
29:20
Speaker 2: trust your guy, trust will Vest?
29:22
Speaker 4: Is it?
29:24
Speaker 2: Look our bullpen's not in a great spot. We're trying
29:26
Speaker 2: to use as few pitchers as possible. I'd love to
29:29
Speaker 2: have kin Lee and Kyle Finnigan fresh tomorrow is it
29:34
Speaker 2: Kenlee Jansen not up been that good? Kyle Finnigan really
29:37
Speaker 2: hasn't been that good. I don't have better options? Or
29:40
Speaker 2: is it like one of them's somebody's not available? And
29:44
Speaker 2: I just don't want to say that publicly. Normally AJ
29:47
Speaker 2: explains these things pretty well. He didn't really in his
29:51
Speaker 2: post game he said he's the right guy. We had
29:54
Speaker 2: two outs and a runner on first and will Vest
29:56
Speaker 2: with the ball in his hands, he can make pitches
29:58
Speaker 2: and get that out. I know we don't don't like
30:00
Speaker 2: it when it doesn't happen, but he can get that out.
30:03
Speaker 2: Spirit of what he's seeing is obviously true. I think
30:08
Speaker 2: runner on first and two outs is a lot different
30:10
Speaker 2: than there was runner than when they were runners on
30:12
Speaker 2: first and second and runners on first, second, and third
30:15
Speaker 2: with two outs, and that pitch count is over thirty
30:17
Speaker 2: and not even that you didn't make a change, is
30:19
Speaker 2: that you didn't even have anybody up. I think this
30:24
Speaker 2: is I don't know, in this spot where you're desperate
30:27
Speaker 2: for wins, Like what are you paying these other guys
30:29
Speaker 2: for if they can't at least be up ready to throw.
30:33
Speaker 2: I didn't love it, just based on like the reading
30:36
Speaker 2: the game Best look gas from way up in the
30:40
Speaker 2: press box.
30:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll straddle the middle there where I think what
30:49
Speaker 1: you said is correct. What Aj said is also somewhat correct.
30:54
Speaker 1: Bottom line is you don't get a ball off your calf.
30:58
Speaker 1: You're right that any went so you're out of that inning.
31:03
Speaker 1: And then Best has to make the pitches and he didn't,
31:07
Speaker 1: And so I think everybody kind of has to wear
31:09
Speaker 1: that aspect of it. You were coming off and off day.
31:13
Speaker 1: Now he did play two on Sunday, but you were
31:15
Speaker 1: coming off and off day, so like it felt like
31:19
Speaker 1: it was a perfect formula for some s and that
31:25
Speaker 1: happened in that ending.
31:26
Speaker 2: So Best, for the record, was asked about his fatigue
31:30
Speaker 2: level and he said, I didn't execute. He did not
31:34
Speaker 2: answer anything to do with his fatigue level.
31:39
Speaker 3: Both things are true.
31:42
Speaker 1: All right, let's wrap up here here, here's a positive, Coolly,
31:45
Speaker 1: Let's wrap up on a positive. Troy Melton looks like, uh,
31:51
Speaker 1: he pitched on Sunday. We didn't talk about because we
31:53
Speaker 1: went big picture stuff on our Monday pod. But but
31:56
Speaker 1: Troy Melton looked like a dude man like that looked
31:59
Speaker 1: like that looked like h like if this was like
32:03
Speaker 1: if this was a win today for the Tigers. He
32:05
Speaker 1: was talking about all these things added up to like,
32:08
Speaker 1: could this be some momentum and it would have been
32:10
Speaker 1: kind of at the top of that list.
32:11
Speaker 3: Five point two innings.
32:13
Speaker 1: Heave up the two hits, one earned run, He had
32:15
Speaker 1: the three strikeouts, but it felt like he was dialed in.
32:18
Speaker 1: You known to talk about below. I thought his v
32:20
Speaker 1: low was good. I thought his sequencing was good. Uh,
32:23
Speaker 1: it did not look like because I think AJ said
32:25
Speaker 1: he was essentially one start short of a normal spring
32:29
Speaker 1: training you know, if you push it back or whatever. Uh,
32:33
Speaker 1: didn't look like it to me. Looked like a guy
32:35
Speaker 1: that was in mid season form. So there's positive there.
32:39
Speaker 1: Troy Melton is back in this rotation.
32:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a What a welcome site man, someone who
32:45
Speaker 2: you thought was going to be a big part of
32:46
Speaker 2: this team, whether it was a starter or a reliever,
32:49
Speaker 2: and you sorely missed when he was on the il
32:52
Speaker 2: an encouraging face, who's going to be here in theory
32:56
Speaker 2: four years to come? Pretty good to see him not
32:59
Speaker 2: just back on the team, but back on the team
33:01
Speaker 2: and pitching pretty well right from the jump. If you
33:05
Speaker 2: want to still cling to some hope, consider the Tiger's
33:09
Speaker 2: rotation could be pretty good and about I don't know.
33:13
Speaker 2: Whenever Trek Scooble gets back Schooble, Valdez, Melton Mize, man,
33:18
Speaker 2: you will take that and then that even that will
33:22
Speaker 2: forget what happens with Justin Ferlander or anything else kind
33:26
Speaker 2: of creates an awkward decision with the Jack flerity thing,
33:28
Speaker 2: are you really going to send Cater Montero to the bullpen?
33:32
Speaker 2: The Tigers are two to nine and Jack Flaherty starts.
33:35
Speaker 2: His record is zero to six. Montero hasn't been as
33:39
Speaker 2: sharp probably the last couple outings that here is over
33:42
Speaker 2: four now, but he's pitched pretty well for you something
33:48
Speaker 2: to keep an eye on. Might might be an awkward
33:50
Speaker 2: decision and might be a little bit of a test
33:53
Speaker 2: for the front office, like what are you doing here?
33:56
Speaker 2: Jack will maybe have a few outings between now and
33:58
Speaker 2: then to try to get himself something close to to right.
34:04
Speaker 3: Test for the front office.
34:05
Speaker 1: That's uh, that's kind of what we're what we're talking about.
34:11
Speaker 2: There are a lot of those out there, and so
34:12
Speaker 2: far it's been met with just kind of shrugs. That
34:15
Speaker 2: seems like but.
34:17
Speaker 3: He shelse anything else Cody. Before we jet out of.
34:21
Speaker 2: Here, I could probably get going on a number of things,
34:26
Speaker 2: but now I'm good for tonight.
34:29
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we'll recap the series on Thursday for
34:34
Speaker 1: Friday for you guys, and then of course we'll be
34:36
Speaker 1: back next Monday as well. You can follow us on
34:38
Speaker 1: extramely known as Twitter at Cody staven Haagen. I'm at
34:41
Speaker 1: Kieran Underscore Secley pod page at Tiger Territory Underscore YouTube, Apple, Spotify,
34:47
Speaker 1: You guys know.
34:47
Speaker 3: What to do.
34:48
Speaker 1: We appreciate all of you, so for Cody Stavenhagen, I'm
34:52
Speaker 1: Kieren Steckley. Everybody, have a great day.