Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / Ep. 617 – Shooting for Success: Tips and Techniques from Champion Foster Bartholow
Transcript
- Matt Harrison: Alright everyone, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host Matt Harrison and today we have a special guest 2008 ATA trap shooting world champion Foster Bartholow Foster. It is so good to have you on the Ducks Unlimited podcast. How you doing, bud? Foster Bartholow: Matt, thank you so much for letting me come on to this. I'm very excited. There's a lot of fun stuff we're going to talk about today, and I can't wait. Matt Harrison: I know it. Me too. Me too. I'm super excited. We've got some great information to talk about, but just a little bit about Foster. Like I just mentioned, Foster was the 2008 World Champion Trap Shooter. And Foster, I've gotten to spend some time with you now in the Duck Blind, also in the Turkey Woods. And y'all, let me tell y'all listeners, Foster, knows how to shoot. That boy, don't miss much. And Foster, I just want to talk a little bit about kind of what got you in the sport of shooting. I know that your brother also is a world champion. I know that y'all started at a young age, but if you don't mind, just talk a little bit about kind of what got you into the sport of shooting. Foster Bartholow: Sure. So when we were young, we were big into going outdoors, hunting, and just enjoying what most people in America realistically don't. So it's been a God-given opportunity, and I take it very seriously when we go out hunting. But growing up, my dad would take us out shooting. We'd have a lot of fun with it, but it wasn't until high school that we saw a flyer at the high school about a youth shooting program for trap shooting. So we Obviously, myself, just loving to shoot, got into this, exceeded really quickly with it. And it really grew from there to a determining standpoint of whether I keep playing baseball or I get into trap shooting. And for the listeners, my dad was huge into baseball. He played with the Phillies for several years. And so for me, it was either going, you know, I had the best training, best mental coach the baseball world ever has known, or I go into trap shooting and try something completely different, something that I'm very passionate about and love to trap shoot. So I went with trap shooting and we have not looked back ever since. Matt Harrison: That is awesome. awesome and yeah like you mentioned your dad I had the pleasure this past turkey season to come up and spend some time in the turkey woods with you and also meet your dad and he's one that I could tell that you got a lot of the a lot of the grit and determination from him like you said he played professional baseball and just that mindset of being the best version of yourself that you can be and the competitive side I could tell that that's That's where that stems from, but great family, great family. And thank you for giving us a little bit of that backstory, Foster. And, you know, anytime we're talking about anything professionalism and whenever it comes to a sport, whether it comes to profession, whatever it might be, when you're at the top of the world, like you have been, that requires a lot. Like, from the preparation, from the time spent, the whole nine, that's a lot of time. So, you know, how hard was it to get to the top? Because being a world champion, I mean, you were at the top. You were the number one in the world in 2008. And so can you talk just a little bit about how hard it was to get to the top? Foster Bartholow: Sure. I mean, looking back on it now, you think about all the time, energy, hours goes into practice, the mental training. And not to make it sound easy, but it definitely, looking back, just like you look on any hunt and you remember the good parts of everything, you don't really think about all that time, all the determination, all the sacrifices, all the time that you failed and had to completely start over and fail again to rebuild yourself. So there was definitely a lot of growth on my part. People in trap shooting have told us, my brother and I both, that we'd never make it very far. When I started, I was a left-eye dominant shooter, shooting right-handed, and so I had my own challenges that I had to overcome with that. Basically, what I ended up doing was what they call a dot system on my glasses, where since my left eye is dominant, I put a dot on my glasses to cover up that eye from being able down the rib, forcing my ride, I'd take over. And after I did that, a light bulb went on and honestly, it was just, it was a game changer for me, but I excelled very quickly with the sport. My brother, and I want to talk about him a little bit too, just cause I'm older brother and I love bragging about what he's done with the sport too. Um, but he is the four time world champion double shooter. Uh, he's the first person in history to ever win three consecutive world titles in a row. Um, so when we talk about doubles, like I'm a good double shooter, but, uh, I, I hold my brother on a pedestal just because he, uh, he's a phenomenal shooter, but it's also about giving back to the sport. And that's what I've love about our family and our values and what we do, because we really try to do a lot with free youth clinics, helping kids out and make the sport better than when we first started. Matt Harrison: Yep. And, you know, I was able, like I said, this past spring to come up and spend some time with y'all. you know, having your dad and yourself talk a little bit about that, how much time that y'all put back into the youth program and the youth, you know, community around y'all. It's fascinating to see because, you know, when you're at the top of the world like you've been and your brother has been, you know, you have to focus so much on spending time where you've got to spend time, you know, practicing, preparation, making sure, you know, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing to remain a world champion. But to see the time that y'all commit putting back into the sport is is crazy, you know just to see How y'all see how important that is, you know, it's not just something about you It's not just for the for the medals for the trophies and y'all let me tell y'all right now. I I got to see uh I got to see Foster and his brother's shrine, and it's unbelievable. I mean, they literally have a room in their house that is nothing but trophies, plaques. I mean, it's crazy to see all the stuff they have won, but yet to hear them talk about Hey, let me tell you what we're doing to help the youth. And that's what fascinated me. You know, a lot of people in y'all's shoes, they would like to tell you about what you've done and what y'all have accomplished and how many medals you've won. But to see y'all's main focus to be like, hey, how can we get more people involved with the shooting community? It's really, really cool. So can you talk a little bit more and elaborate on kind of the clinics that y'all put on and what y'all do for the youth around in the shooting world? Foster Bartholow: Yeah, absolutely. So when we were growing up, after I'd won the first world championship, Matt won a world championship in 2011. And so it opened up the doors for opportunity to not only spread our message, but other sponsors that we have with Browning, Winchester, to be able to get guns in kids' hands to test out, things to try out, because that's one of the big things for a lot of kids and families, and certainly for ourselves when we first started. was we really didn't have the knowledge of what we should be shooting, what we should be trying, because there's a difference between trap shooting grade guns and hunting guns, and we can go later on too. So Browning opened up an opportunity where they gave us an arsenal of guns, and we're able to get these in kids' hands, test them out, see what kids like. And it was the best thing because for families going forward, now they have knowledge of when they go to buy a gun, this is the one I want because we've tested it, we love it. So going forward with that, it's been incredible. For all of our trap shooting clinics, we really try to promote a positive message. So we call it Your Recipe because A lot of shooters, especially in the trap shooting world, feel like, like you just said, they like to talk about themselves and what they've done. So a lot of the coaches, well, this is how I was grown up shooting, so this is how you have to do it. And Matt can tell you, if I was to try to shoot like you, or vice versa, or if we both tried to shoot like my brother, We would fail more than likely, not shoot as good as our potential, just because it's not our recipe. It's not what we need to be able to shoot the best that we can. So that's the big part with our clinics. We have a presentation that we go through. But then we go out and watch the kids and typically we'll try to end on an Annie Oakley. I don't know if you've ever heard of that fun shooting game, but we'll do that to bring in a competition factor too. And we have awards, Bartholow Brothers, Annie Oakley champion awards that we give out. It's super awesome. But we help probably on average about two to 3,000 kids a summer. Matt Harrison: speaks for itself how y'all are giving back and just how important it is to get those youth involved, you know, in a really and truly an aspect that there's not a lot of opportunity out there. You know, you have some 4-H clubs and such that have skeet shooting competition teams, but if we're being completely honest, you know, that realm is not really a realm that there's a lot of opportunity for you. So to see you and your brother and your dad and family pour the amount of time and money that y'all have into This sport is fascinating to see that the difference y'all, you know, y'all have made is remarkable You know and like like you had mentioned, you know, it's it's it's about giving back and it's with conservation It's with you know, introducing kids to hunting whether it's shooting, you know, whatever that looks like an outdoor side of things It's about giving back and seeing you and your family do that. It's it's it's a It's fresh air to me and I know to a lot of others just to see the people that are at a rank that y'all are give back to the community. So, you know, thank you for that, Foster. I know a lot of our listeners, too, appreciate that. Foster Bartholow: Well, it's awesome to see when kids come up and they've shot their best personal score or they've run 25 out of 25 or 100 out of 100. Like, that says something, you know. with Ducks Unlimited, how they give back. A lot of what we teach is not just for trap shooting, and we will honestly say that all the time. Use what you learned here in this clinic and apply it to other things, hunting. If you do different sports, there's so much that we talk about that the mental game can help you so tremendously well. Matt Harrison: Yeah. And now to talk a little bit about kind of the shooting aspect, just to kind of dive in a little bit deeper on that. Let's say you take yourself preparing, let's say the year before you won, so 2007. How much time were you practicing? How many shells were you shooting a day whenever you were getting ready to become, before you knew of course you were going to be a world champion, but that year before, preparing for that, How much time were you putting in as a shooter to be prepared for that? Foster Bartholow: So there's, there's a couple of different things that we've changed along our line of shooting. Um, so I used to be all about just going out and shooting as much as possible. Um, you know, there were a couple of days where I went out and I just made a personal goal. My dad was out there and, and we literally said, I'm going to shoot until I miss. And the one day I think it was like 947 shots, 947 shots until you missed something like, like nine or three. Matt Harrison: But I mean, like, Foster Bartholow: It was, it was a lot, you know, and then missed a shot and that's like, okay, I'm done. That's what I needed for the day. Matt Harrison: And explain, explain to our listeners at what type of shots these were. Like, are we talking about skeets coming across, away, to, from, whatever. Like, when you say over 900 shots before you miss, what are you and how are you shooting at these skeets? Foster Bartholow: Yep, so with the game of trap shooting, you have one trap house in front of you. Behind is at the 16-yard line, five different stations or posts. So you shoot five from post one, five from two, five from three, five from four, and five from five to make up a box of 25. And then once that 25 is done, you go back, grab another box of shells, and you'll go out for a total round. Typically, like if you're in a competition, a round is in 100. Now, when you get at the world stage, at the Grand American Trap Shoot, typically the singles competitions are done in a 200 event. realistically to weed more people out. Because it's amazing now with advancements of guns, technology, shells, you're seeing so many more people shooting 200 out of 200. But in trap shooting, it's a game of consistency. And so you have to be perfect, especially at the world stage. If you miss one, you shoot 199 out of 200, you're getting the handshake and thanks for coming. Matt Harrison: I mean, that's just, that's, that's unbelievable. And to just see, I mean, when you're talking about shooting over 900 times, what, what, roughly speaking, I know it can, can vary, but roughly speaking, how much time is that? Like, cause you know, there's some people that are going to be listening to this that's probably never shot, shot skeet before. So like, how much time is in that 900 shots? Foster Bartholow: You know, I would say that was probably, I think we went out at like 10-ish in the morning and I was finishing up at like 6. Matt Harrison: So we're talking, we're talking eight hours, eight hours before you shot missed. And like I said, if you've never, you know, shot any type of trap or skeet or anything like that, then you may not know how difficult that is. Uh, I mean, that's just remarkable. The, the time and, you know, the precision you just talked about, you know, I mean, when you're going into this competition, if you've got 200, you know, shots at this and you miss one. I mean, one, and we haven't even talked about, when you're talking about these competitions, you can, I mean, wind, that's something you can't control. You know what I mean? You may have a gust of wind come through at 30 miles an hour, and now that ski goes from kind of floating to flying like a teal through the decoys. I mean, there's no way that you can practice for that. You know what I mean? And if you miss one, I feel like, you know, I'm not saying luck's got to be on your side, but at the same time, I feel like it needs to be because, I mean, if it starts misting or drizzling rain or, like I said, a big gust of wind comes through, I mean, I just feel like that that can really hinder Your, you know, your practice that you have practiced a thousand times on a normal speed of a skeet coming through, then all of a sudden you've got this, you know, a wrench thrown in, you know, what you've been practicing and all of a sudden you miss one skeet, you're done. Foster Bartholow: Yep, that's the truth. Now, there is a little bit of help with the trap shooting grade shotguns, because a normal hunting gun is going to be what we call a 50-50 POI, where it's shooting dead center, like if you aim it you know, a little dot, you're going to be 50% of your patterns above, like if you were to draw a line through that, that dot you're aiming at 50% of your patterns above it, 50% below. So that's a 50, 50 point of impact dead center. Whereas a trap shooting grade gun is typically going to be like a 70, 30 to an 80, 20, which realistically can be four to six, maybe even eight inches high, depending on the, the personal. But for, So the benefit with this, if you have a 70-30 point of impact, we're now 70% above, you're shooting, you know, that four inches high, which means you aim at the bottom of that clay target, you never have to cover it. So when we talk about wind, if you have a target that jumps, you're never having to cover that target, and you're really helping yourself, you're giving yourself an advantage with the trap shooting grade gun, because you don't have to cover that target like you would a hunting gun. Yeah, so there's ways that, you know, it makes it easier with certain guns. Matt Harrison: And you say easier, but it's still, you put the average person out there and they would be lucky to hit 100 out of 200. I mean, it's a very difficult thing to do, especially when you're talking about 200 chances. You know, and that kind of leads into my next question and point. When you're talking about, you technically have to be perfect to continue. The amount of pressure that is on you, let's say you're at 199 and you know you got to hit the next one to move on. the pressure that is on you to make the shot that you need to make. I need you to elaborate on how do you channel, one, those emotions, and two, how do you even prepare for that certain scenario, because I feel like it don't matter how much you train, I feel like you could shoot a million rounds. And I know a lot of it comes from confidence in your preparation to give you that confidence, but still, you know, when you're in that moment, I feel like the amount of pressure and the buildup on making that shot that you have to make, how do you even begin to train for that, and how do you channel those emotions? Foster Bartholow: So, that's a great question there. I will say this, if you have an opportunity, Matt, next time you're out here turkey hunting with us, we'll go out and shoot some shotguns, go trap shooting. I would love to. I want you to watch Matt, my brother Matt. Matt Harrison: I don't know if I'm going to do that because I don't want to be embarrassed. Foster Bartholow: You say that, but he's a gentle giant, I promise. Okay. But if you watch his warm-up routine, he by far has one of the best in trap shooting. So it takes him, whether he's going to go out and shoot one shell or go and shoot a thousand, he has the same warm-up routine for practice and competition. And so I want to bring this up for all the listeners out there that are trap shooters, build yourself a warm-up routine. And even if you're a hunter, Do a routine that's going to make you more consistent when you're getting on the field. Maybe that's going and stretching before, you know, after you get all the decoys set up. Maybe it's stretching your eyes, whatever it takes for you. But there's ways that are going to make you a more successful hunter, a more successful trap shooter. So when we talk about the warmup routine, Matt has a playlist that he listens to and he basically just like gets in his own zone. and just meditates almost, more or less. When he goes then to shoot trap, it's like nothing I've ever seen before, because he's now blended his warmup routine and going out and getting ready for basically going and practicing, to now when he steps over to the competition side, he's ready to rock and roll. It's incredible. So, I mean, there's ways that, you know, the mental side you can definitely help build yourself up to. Matt Harrison: Yeah, and like I mentioned whenever I was asking the question too, you know, when you spend that much time and that much effort that y'all have put in to becoming the shooter that you are today, I feel like that confidence and the knowing that, hey, I've prepared for this, I've put in my time, I'm ready. You know what I mean? I feel like that confidence Helps you when you're in that moment. No, and hey look, you know, I've I've I've poured a lot of time a lot of sweat tears The whole nine into this so I'm gonna rely on my confidence knowing that I've done the work to put me in this situation Oh for sure, but we still get get the exact No doubt. I'm sitting here like, like I know how to channel this whenever, uh, I've never been in that type of situation before. You know, like I said, I'm in the margin for error to, to just, like you said, to literally shake a hand and say, thank you for the opportunity. The margin for that is just so small. And just to hear the stories that you've told me that, you know, How you won your 2008 title was phenomenal, and I want to get to that in just a second, but it really makes you appreciate the time that you've put into it and the respect. I mean, you have my respect, just because, like I said, I've shared, like I said, the duck blind, I've shared the turkey woods, and I forgot, I left this out, we also shared A pheasant field to me and you I will put this is a little little story me and me and Foster one evening We decided we were after our duck hunt. We're gonna go shoot some pheasants in Nebraska and Foster I will I'm gonna give me any credits. I don't think I think out of that whole evening one pheasant I Uh, got out and, and that was on me. I know that you didn't miss, uh, it was a hundred percent on me, but we, uh, I think I only missed one time. And, and like I said, I shoulda, shoulda knocked it down, but, uh, I missed. So, uh, you know. You gotta save some for later. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I was doing my part, you know, in, in, in making sure we had pheasants, you know, for the future generations. But, you know, I've seen you shoot and it's remarkable just to see the accuracy and the timing and the way you go about it. It's really cool. I want you next to tell us a little bit about the story when you won your world championship. So if you can, just kind of tell us about that experience, how you went about it, who you faced off against in the final rounds. Just give us, and I don't want you to have to feel like you have to hit this or hit that, give us just, if you were sitting there with your best friend talking, give us the full experience of how that day went about and what it felt like to win that championship. Foster Bartholow: I will definitely do that. Um, we talked a little bit about, uh, you know, different things of how we handle it. Uh, you pressure, you know, this and that. Um, there's a lot of stuff that I have trained for too. Um, one thing I think it's going to help some of the listeners out there, whether you shoot archery, whether you shoot shotguns. Um, but like all the rifle guys have always said, you know, take a breath of air and let it out, and once you let it out, then you shoot. For shotguns, I do it a little bit differently. I actually take a breath of air in and just let a little bit out, because it's a little different. Like, if I let all my air out, I essentially have about a second and a half to two seconds before my brain starts saying, hey, dummy, you need to breathe. Something's going to go on. And you're not going to like it. So I developed something a little different for shotguns, where I'm essentially taking, not a huge breath of air in, but a breath of air in. And essentially, I'm bringing the gun up at that point. And I start to let a little bit of air out when I'm focusing my eyes, getting them adjusted to where I need for trap shooting to look for that clay target. And as soon as everything's set, I call for the bird. When I let that little breath of air out, I have about seven to eight seconds before my brain's saying the same thing, that I need to breathe again. So that's helped me a lot with my routine. Because we talk about, you know, what are you thinking about out trap shooting? And I don't really think too much about anything other than breathing. And it helps especially like the last shots. The last five shots, when you're straight, the adrenaline starts kicking in, it shakes, come on, at least be breathing. I can have that confidence going forward that I know that I'm going to be able to control that, and I can control everything else from there. Going into the story, I actually missed my 200th out of 200th target at the 2007 Worlds. Yeah, you want to talk about disappointment there. Um, my dad was watching and, and, uh, came back off the line and shot 199 in a row and missed my 200 target. Uh, that was probably one of my most disappointing moments in trap shooting. Uh, just cause like you said, you, you, you practice, you train, you do everything and you go to this competition, you're hyped up, you're focused, you're ready for it. You go out and you shoot. And then for something like that to happen, you know, it sinks you to the bottom of the ocean. Um… And so my dad came when I was talking to him, and he's like, do you know what you did wrong? I'm like, yeah, I missed. But yeah, and so he's like, what you ended up doing, before you shot, you took a big breath of air in and you let it out. He's like, what were your thoughts? He's like, were you thinking I'm gonna destroy this clay target? And I'm like, no, I was like, please God, help me hit this target. And so yeah, it was a very teachable moment there. I didn't realize it when a younger me, but at that point, it's like, okay, the last five shots, I need to do something completely different to elevate my game versus hope that I'm gonna be able to get the clay target. So going into that next year, I was dialed in, I had a plan. This year, I actually was able to shoot 200 out of 200 for 2008. So when you shoot 200 out of 200, out of like 3,000 to 5,000 shooters that are at this event, typically about 50 to 80 will run all 200. So all 50 to 80 of those will go off for a shoot off that evening. And essentially what you do is you just, you show up, they call your name. You get checked in, and then you will wait to go out and shoot. Basically, they'll squad everybody, and then once you're assigned to squad, when you get called up to the trap, then you go out and you start shooting. And they have so many traps at this world competition that are under the lights, and so you just start shooting and banking targets, essentially just 25, 25. And then if you miss one, typically you're out at that point. And they just keep weeding it down. So they'll shoot 200 that first night. And then out of that, you'll shoot the next day's events. And then that evening, they'll call you back and basically you'll start shooting again, just like you did the night before. And you'll do another 200. And so this kept going on and on. So we shot 200, we shot 200, shot 200. Well, the last night, which was the last night of the world championships, it was basically shoot until you guys are done. And it ended up getting down to myself and one of probably the ATA's greatest shooters, Leo Harrison. It got down to us too, and we both were dialed in. And yeah, and so basically, we just kept shooting, kept shooting. Well, we got to 300 that last evening. At that time, the president of the ATA came out and said, guys, this is beyond anything. You guys have doubled the streak for shoot off in- Yeah. He's like, you know, at this point, would you guys take the honor of declaring co-champion, which has never happened at the world event either. And so this was the one event that Leo Harrison had not won. This is obviously my first world ring. So we both accepted that graciously. and we're both declared co-champions. So it was the first year, it was the longest shoot off in ATA history, Amateur Trap Shooting Association's history. And as well as it was the first time that anyone was ever declared co-champion. So it was tremendous in that, you know, Leo was happy he got a ring. I was happy I got a ring too. So it, excuse me, it all worked out in the end, but. Matt Harrison: So in total, in total, how many was it consecutive shots that y'all hit? Foster Bartholow: So individually, I shot 1,100 out of 1,100. Matt Harrison: I mean, that's literally mind-blowing. Foster Bartholow: And people were like, hey, you guys should just go and shoot to see who would win at the end of any game show, right? Well, what would have you done if Yeah. But no, it was, it was a tremendous opportunity. And like I said, it's grown us though. And I always take it back to these are my accomplishments, but this is what we've been able to do with it. Because I think that's as important or more important than talking about what I've done. Like, it's cool. Like, I don't know. I just, I'm more happy that God's given me this opportunity to win an event like this and elevate the platform to be able to help others. Matt Harrison: Absolutely. And yeah, that's just unbelievable to hear the story about how you became a world champion. I mean, to shoot that many times without missing. But to experience that moment that, you know, at the end, hey, I'm a champion. All the years, all the hard work, all the practice has finally paid off. And it's just remarkable to hear the story. I know I'm fascinated and motivated by it. And, you know, it's a really cool story. And, you know, you talked a little bit earlier about your brother, yourself, you even threw me in there, talking about how if you try to make one person shoot like another person, it's not gonna work. It's not gonna work. And it's the same way with really and truly anything competitively, a lot of times speaking. Now, there's some things that, you know, you gotta do exactly like this to succeed. But, you know, if we're talking about baseball, football, like you look at any type of quarterback, shortstop, anything like that, if you go up to that person and say, You need to try to swing exactly like Derek Jeter or throw a football like Tom Brady. Like, if they try to mimic that, it's more than likely not going to work. You've got to find ways to be successful that best work for you. And talking about shooting, because I'm sure a lot of our listeners spend a lot of time with a shotgun in their hands. What? are some ways to find out what type of a shooter you are. Because I can remember just a short time me and you spent together in Nebraska, you know, I was, I was, whether you realize or not, I was watching you, you know, one thing I noticed that you did is, say you did miss on your first shot, which you didn't do much, you, you, you followed up really quick with your second and third shot. Like it wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a boom, Boom, and that's the kind of shooter I am, you know, if I miss my first shot, I'm like, okay, I gotta sit here and lead them a little bit more, shorten up my lead, whatever that might be. I noticed one thing, you were just like real quick with your second and third shot. But, you know, that's just an example of, you know, I didn't do, I didn't shoot like that. Then I think we talked about it a little bit and you explained it a little bit better. So what are some ways that people can kind of find out what type of shooter they are? And I know probably the low hanging fruit answer would be just go out and shoot. You know what I mean? But like, could you give some examples of like, hey, you know, I know for a fact if I'm missing 50 to 75% of my shots out in front, what are some ways people can kind of find out what type of shooter they are? Foster Bartholow: Sure, so I'd first start off checking people to see if they're a one-eyed or two-eyed shooter. Yep. If they're right-eye dominant or left-eye dominant. So like myself, I'm a left-eye dominant shooter, but I shoot right-handed. And so I'm going to have to close one eye essentially because that left eye is gonna take over, and it's going to be looking down the rib, or I'll see two beads basically at the end of the barrel. Whereas if you're a two-eyed shooter, you're right-handed and you're right-eyed dominant, that's going to allow you to keep both eyes open, but you're gonna be able to see down that rib and make more successful shots. So that's the first thing I'm gonna check on people is are you basically right or left-eyed dominant, What I just say is a one-eyed or a two-eyed shooter. So we're just gonna say you're a two-eyed shooter, you're shooting right-handed. The next tip I'm gonna give on that one is always try to over-lead a bird. Is one of the biggest things, like what we were talking about in Nebraska, Matt, is always try to lead the bird versus not. Because more times than not, especially on… Yeah, you're always behind them. And very, very few times are you in front of them. And so what I've just, the ShotKam has helped me tremendously with, you know, recording my shooting, being able to like break it down, like shot for shot, kind of see the lead and the distance I have out in front of it for how far the target is, to be able to get a good idea of what to do in the future. And a lot of people don't realize with your shot string, when you shoot a shotgun, you don't have all the BBs flying at one time. Basically, you have a shot string that's laid out four to six, maybe even eight feet, depending on what you're shooting and the distances. But you have a four-foot shot string, so if you're shooting and you over-lead that bird, chances are you have a shot string that that bird's gonna fly into, versus if you don't give it enough lead, you could have a 20-foot shot string and you're never gonna hit that bird because you're already behind it. Matt Harrison: Yeah. And, you know, that's things that you never really and truly think about until you miss enough where you're like, what am I doing wrong? Like, I can't tell you how many times, you know, there's been times where I couldn't hit the broadside of the barn. And then there's times that I can't miss, you know what I mean? But really and truly in those misses is when you really start to say, okay, what am I doing wrong? And like you said, if I am missing, it's normally, I feel like my lead is just You know what I mean? Like, I feel like my perspective to which angle I'm shooting at is just off, and exactly how you said it, it's really crazy to think about. A lot of times when you shoot, you're behind. Majority of the time, because you're thinking like, man, I was way out in front of that bird. Well, you don't realize, like you said, it's in a string. You know what I mean? Your pattern's in a string, and realizing that a lot of times, they're moving quicker than you think they are, and they're further than what you think, too. Especially, I've realized, too. You know, I hunt a lot of timber, flooded timber, a lot of where there's a background per se, whether it be trees or, you know, something like that to kind of give you more of a perspective of that target. I've realized if I move from the woods to a field, My shooting a lot of times is off because I think that that bird's closer because there's not really anything behind it to give me that dealt perception. You know, and it's just crazy to think about, you know, a lot of times it's as simple as all you gotta do is your lead's off. You know, lead that bird a little bit more than what you're thinking about. And it's simple, yet one of the hardest things to do because you'll lead them a little bit further and you'll still miss and you're like, what am I doing wrong? Sometimes I'm like, am I shooting blanks? So it's really, it's really cool to, you know, hear you talk about, you know, just kind of figuring that out as a shooter, as in, figure out your leads, you know, really focus on, okay, I know for a fact that bird was 30 yards, give or take, I let it, what I felt like was, so and so feet and I missed. So let me next shot, if I have another bird at that about same distance, you know, your decoy spread however far out, you know, next, next shot, I'm going to do this, you know, finding ways to figure out what kind of shooter you are and what works best for you. Foster Bartholow: Well, and what you said earlier with how can I get such a quick follow up shot. So what you didn't see was when I shot the first shell at that pheasant, he flipped his head up. So I basically shot right in front of him. So if I had that four foot lead on him or three foot lead, I know now put a two feet lead We're in that distance. And so another thing that I also want to talk about is making sure you know the different ways to lead a bird. You can have a follow-through lead, you can have a sustained lead, are really the two biggest ones that I see most people using. Find which one of those works best for you because when birds come in, we're just going to say cupped up mallards are coming in. A lot of people just bring it up and put it right on the front of them and pull the trigger. They don't think about how am I actually leading this bird. A follow through is when you're starting behind them and you match up to them, you match the speed. get in front of him, so basically your tail, body, head, in front of him, pull the trigger. Where a sustained lead, you're already in front of him, when you pull that gun up, you're in front of that mallard already, and you're basically just matching his speed, and then when the distance that lead is right, then you pull the trigger and keep following through. Matt Harrison: You know, and it's crazy. You mentioned, for example, that pheasant talking about when we were in Nebraska and that first shot, you saw its head lift up. There's little things like that you can, you can pay attention to that'll help you to, you know, like I've noticed before, you know, maybe shooting at a big fat mallard, you'll see some tail feathers kind of get knocked out. And then you're like, okay, I know that I was behind him. So I need to lead him a little bit more. There's ways little tricks that you can learn to help you become a better shooter too. Foster Bartholow: Yep. And that's that's a big part. Now if we're talking about like. giant honkers coming in and you want to try to triple on them. One of the easiest ways that I found, if you try to start at the inside, like the center of a flock and work your way out, it's going to be a lot tougher than if you start on the outside of flock and work your way in. Just because a lot of people will, you shoot that first one, then you have to go all the way out to try to get that second one, shoot that and then go all the way out and shoot a third one if you start in the center, whereas if you start on the outside of it, essentially when those geese are flaring, you shoot that first one, and then that second one is right there in your peripheral vision, and you get on that immediately, shoot that second one, here comes that third one, boom, boom, boom, you're done. Matt Harrison: That's a good point. And thinking about that, what you just said, if you start on the outside, the ones in front of you are are gonna end more than likely like yeah you may have one just continue to fly over your head and go out the back but a lot of times if you're shooting in a group in front of you if you take that outside bird those ones in front are going to end up where that outside bird is so that distance is kind of the same you'll kind of be getting that same shot almost that you would for all three birds if that makes sense. Foster Bartholow: Yeah. Now I do want to throw a little disclaimer, right? If you're shooting with like a whole group of people, I'm not actively saying, Hey, uh, the guys in the middle go and start shooting at the birds on the outside. Um, you know, definitely if you're shooting with a group of people, you shoot your selective lane, you shoot your lane a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're on the, if you're on the outside and that's typically where I try to take as one of the outside spots, just because that gives me a good cleanup for, for, uh, getting, getting more birds, uh, you know, that are, that are still alive at that point. Matt Harrison: Absolutely. And kind of to wrap up the podcast, Foster, I want you to, to give our listeners, what would you say are three good tips to become a better shot? Like what are three just simple things that you could, that you could kind of give us some nuggets that you have found that have helped you become a better shooter over time? Like what are three tips to help someone become a better shooter? Foster Bartholow: Sure. So one of the biggest things that's helped me is finding a better stance, footwork. And this is for your pheasant hunters out there. A lot of people have a, what I call like a hunting stance or rifle stance. A lot of people think that shotgun shooting is all upper body, that you're using your arms to swing to that target. And while that's true, you are using your arms to swing. A lot of people are just using that and not using their hips to swing, their whole body to swing. And that comes through proper footwork. But one thing I want listeners to try out, even if you're sitting at the office and you're sitting down, just test this out. Imagine you have a shotgun in your hands and you just pulled it up. And try just swinging with your arms only. And notice how quickly that gun would come off of your face. Now, do it again, but leave everything locked, upper body, as stable as possible, and only move with your hips. And you're going to notice that your upper body is staying very, very solid, almost like a turret on a tank. That's going to consistently help you to be a better shooter, because one, you generate a lot more consistency through your hips, through your lower body, to be able to swing to a target. And it's like I said, you're not going to be pulling your face off away from a shotgun as easily if you keep that upper body locked in. Trying to think, let's see, second tip. Give me a minute, Matt. No, you're good. I'm trying to think of stuff I haven't talked about already. Matt Harrison: What about choosing the right gun as in just like choosing a gun that fits you? You know what I mean? Like size-wise, gauge-wise, because I do feel like that's a tip that a lot of people don't think about. Perfect. Foster Bartholow: Okay. Another thing I want to talk about is finding the right gauge of shotgun slash using the right ammo. And this is a personal preference, 100%, right? Because like Matt, when you came out with us, we were using 410s for turkeys. I want all listeners to know that Matt and his brother absolutely hammered a couple of nice liners out with us. There's a lot of fun. You know, using the right ammo, using the right gauge of shotgun, because a lot of people, you know, especially starting off will just get introduced to a 12 gauge and that might be a little bit big for what they're used to and what they're comfortable shooting. Whereas if they get into a 20 gauge or even a sub gauge, a 28 gauge, you know, it might be more manageable for them, a little bit lighter and overall just a better experience. Now, there's a lot to be said with bismuth, with your TSS. There's just so many improvements with that. So I would say, if you're getting started off and wanting to find the right shotgun, go into Cabela's, go into Shields, and go test out a bunch of guns. Just go and lift them up and see what feels good. Really, you're gonna find a gun that feels good as far as what your eyes can see, like down the rib. It's basically just going and throwing those up and just seeing what feels well. You're gonna have some that have bigger palm swells versus ones that have narrower palm swells, basically before him. So there's a lot of different feels to a shotgun, and that's just going out and realistically either testing them out with buddies or just going into Shields and learning from some of the associates there that have good knowledge and information. Another thing that I always try to tell people is always try to shoot a little bit tighter pattern than not. I've seen more people miss because they have holes in their pattern or they cripple a bird, whereas I'm big, I always try to over choke. So I'm always shooting a tighter pattern than not because when I shoot and I miss something, I know I missed it clean or if I hit it, it's definitely going to put enough BBs in there to make a clean ethical kill. Matt Harrison: No doubt. And Foster, thank you so much for sharing those super helpful tips with us. I know that I've learned something during this time talking with you. So we just want to thank you so much again for joining the Ducks Unlimited podcast. We also want to thank our producer of the Ducks Unlimited podcast, Mr. Chris Isaac. Chris, thank you so much for all that you do for Ducks Unlimited and the podcast. And we are extremely excited for what's to come. So Foster, again, thank you so much for tuning in and giving the listeners Some great information. Foster Bartholow: Absolutely. And if you want to go check out more information on me, uh, you can check out my Instagram at Foster Barthelow, or if you go onto YouTube, check out Prestige Outdoors. We're going to have a bunch of content coming up. Um, definitely a lot of tips on there too. Matt Harrison: Thank you so much again, Foster. And thank you so much to our listeners out there. We can't thank you enough for your support to Ducks Unlimited.