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Inside the New DefenceTech Race · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: You are now listening to the EU Startups
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to this special episode of The EU Startup's podcast!
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We're here at A-Five X Conference in Singapore by Mitation, National University of Singapore.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Throughout these next few days we'll be chatting about innovation funding, and the developing bridge between Southeast Asia and Europe.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Not to mention The Singapore Defense Tech Hackathon whose winner is going show up at our very end of this series in a special episode.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: So I hope you're looking forward to hear us talking about the challenges?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the innovation And how we are all comparing when it comes to localized markets such as Asia, Southeast Asia, and Europe... ...and even global challenges not to mention the lessons that can be learned from each other.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, Gary.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for joining me here in the You Start Us podcast.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a pleasure I'm sure.
• 1:01
  Speaker 0: Thanks for having this podcast!
• 1:03
  Speaker 0: Y'know what?
• 1:03
  Speaker 0: This is my first podcast with you Is
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: it
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: really?!
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah
• 1:05
  Speaker 0: good!
• 1:05
  Speaker 0: My very first podcast again.
• 1:06
  Speaker 0: I hope its...I
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: hope Its A Good One.
• 1:09
  Speaker 0: So bit of background about myself.
• 1:11
  Speaker 0: Spent twenty five years In The Military.
• 1:14
  Speaker 0: I was trained as an Infantry Officer.
• 1:16
  Speaker 0: Then i thought that there must be a smarter way to fight this war.
• 1:20
  Speaker 0: I can't do it in the trenches without Showering For ten days and blah.
• 1:26
  Speaker 0: So decided to join the Air Force, took on a scholarship and was trained at E-II Seahawkeye which is an early one in plane.
• 1:33
  Speaker 0: It was in Top Gun movies The very first one there You know.
• 1:37
  Speaker 0: And we were at Miramar Naval Air Station.
• 1:40
  Speaker 0: so...the very first movie where you see Tom Cruise & Kelly McGillis.
• 1:43
  Speaker 0: That's real bad because I wasn't there.
• 1:45
  Speaker 0: Okay Cut long.
• 1:46
  Speaker 0: story short i'm not a pilot.
• 1:48
  Speaker 0: I was trained as a VIZO As..you know..E-II.
• 1:52
  Speaker 0: it like flying submarine.
• 1:53
  Speaker 0: its got three people behind.
• 1:55
  Speaker 0: So you got to do everything.
• 1:56
  Speaker 0: You've gotta first study how the physics and engineering, computation works... ...you go up there then need to learn how to survive in a plane if there are emergencies.
• 2:06
  Speaker 0: Now you sort that all out.
• 2:08
  Speaker 0: Then you'll have to operate.
• 2:10
  Speaker 0: And we know how the radar performs.
• 2:12
  Speaker 0: We also know how other systems perform.
• 2:14
  Speaker 0: If things goes wrong you will have to fix it.
• 2:16
  Speaker 0: So your talking about different tech coming together.
• 2:19
  Speaker 0: So this is something that I learned and then built a lot of confidence because if things go wrong, you just can't ask the pilot to land.
• 2:25
  Speaker 0: You have to fix it.
• 2:27
  Speaker 0: And i then became the commanding officer of squadron few years after That was head of air force intelligence director policy.
• 2:35
  Speaker 0: Then they experimented with me A first non-pilot To command fighter base With three F-sixteen Squadrons.
• 2:43
  Speaker 0: Of course E-II Squadron Had an F-Sixteen squadron in in the US, so I told the pilots you know put me on your most difficult missions okay.
• 2:53
  Speaker 0: By that time i finished my three year tour and had thirty hours was at a backseat of an M-RAM firing in the United States flew Red Flag Missions which is just the premier air exercise in Nevada In the
• 3:07
  Speaker 0: U.S.,
• 3:07
  Speaker 0: there are some local missions here.
• 3:11
  Speaker 0: So that really was where I saw as a commander how things came together within an airbase, had two thousand five hundred people with me.
• 3:22
  Speaker 0: And it is important for teams to work together.
• 3:24
  Speaker 0: then became deputy secretary policy of doing policy work.
• 3:28
  Speaker 0: you know the Shangri-La dialogue when people just talk and they don't hack right.
• 3:31
  Speaker 0: so having a single defense tag hackathon because i want Joy Tomasek.
• 3:37
  Speaker 0: for twelve years, you know was involved in macro strategy but I supported the investment teams when it came to things related to politics and all that kind of stuff.
• 3:48
  Speaker 0: My team was mainly economists-I was a guy who came from military through translated Polaris into things like impact investments.
• 3:57
  Speaker 0: Opportunity change to join NUS came up because my primary school friend Cian who runs this place said, hey in November why don't you join me?
• 4:06
  Speaker 0: because defense tech is now investable.
• 4:08
  Speaker 0: So I was like okay yeah and what we do here it's we translate technologies R&D into startups.
• 4:16
  Speaker 0: Why don't You Do It on the Defense side?
• 4:18
  Speaker 0: so In a way this was natural evolution of my career military to masik And My father Was A stockbroker.
• 4:27
  Speaker 0: so i've always had investments at The back Of my head.
• 4:30
  Speaker 0: when i was in tamasik also i found that there more interesting investments in the VC world where things were being built from first principles.
• 4:39
  Speaker 0: I was an MIT Sloan, so i had a business plan and optical switch plan.
• 4:44
  Speaker 0: So started to invest vicariously as because I could not become an entrepreneur Because I was in government In startups And now invested into like thirty-over start ups Adviced about nine of them.
• 4:59
  Speaker 0: So coming to NUS, I said why don't I just replicate what i've done in the public space and with a mission?
• 5:12
  Speaker 0: because at this point of my life What excites me is going back to roots again.
• 5:16
  Speaker 0: It must be mission driven.
• 5:18
  Speaker 0: so This mission that we have here it's building defense Building national resilience through defense entrepreneurship Mm-hmm and they compliment each other.
• 5:30
  Speaker 0: One is to have a hackathon because in the hackathon, you get talent You convert talent into startups.
• 5:37
  Speaker 0: So that's done by the Defense Venture Lab which we are also building here.
• 5:43
  Speaker 0: The sign-ups for the Hackathon was... To say it as pleasant surprise is that under State Marijuana thousands of people signing up And obviously this didn't come about by chance.
• 5:56
  Speaker 0: This came around Because two years ago, I met Ben Wolba who does hackathons in Europe.
• 6:07
  Speaker 0: After the Ukraine war broke out young Europeans wanted to help the Ukrainians defend so that Ukrainian military brought their problems to be hacked and then some of them deployed And some became startups after that.
• 6:23
  Speaker 0: So that night in Berlin two nights ago, and you know what?
• 6:29
  Speaker 0: We bonded over vanilla ice cream because it was too late to have coffee.
• 6:34
  Speaker 0: It's nine thirty.
• 6:35
  Speaker 0: he'd bite twenty minutes to meet a total stranger like me.
• 6:39
  Speaker 0: I said well one day i'm gonna do this in Singapore Because Singapore needs also to transform To align ourselves with the new form of welfare which is not which is a departure from what we are currently.
• 6:57
  Speaker 0: So Singapore, We're small and always believe that we could derive quick and decisive victory if deterrence fails.
• 7:08
  Speaker 0: so we structure for Quick Wars model after the wars in the Middle East in the nineteen sixties and seventies but today learning from Ukraine at other wars.
• 7:18
  Speaker 0: they only long longer wars there no more short wars.
• 7:21
  Speaker 0: And all long wars are economic wars.
• 7:24
  Speaker 0: So you have to, and looking at where Ukraine has done they've translated commercial tech All the way from styling and counter drone solutions even today interceptors Autonomous underwater drones that destroy navies.
• 7:44
  Speaker 0: This is very warfare it's going towards.
• 7:47
  Speaker 0: so I'll just one last point.
• 7:50
  Speaker 0: So the defense primes of today, they are tied to current establishment where slow expensive and few.
• 7:59
  Speaker 0: That's what the current model is because there's a military industrial complex that light-stacked but has been destroyed by Ukraine so to speak.
• 8:12
  Speaker 0: every military establishment.
• 8:13
  Speaker 0: Today it built on debt It takes ten years twenty billion dollar programs.
• 8:20
  Speaker 0: Today it is about fast, cheap and many.
• 8:23
  Speaker 0: And this what the hackathon's all about.
• 8:25
  Speaker 0: This a new pathway.
• 8:26
  Speaker 0: There's revolution in the military affairs that are happening.
• 8:29
  Speaker 0: We're writing on that.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: so It's obvious to say clear you have one foot In both worlds right?
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Into the military side of things As well into investment with your involvement With NUS Your past background aswell Which makes me curious To hear your opinion On dual use Because to me, that's an interesting term.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: We've had defense tech people on the podcast before.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: investors entrepreneurs.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: what have you?
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and they all seem to kind of approach dual use through different perspectives because You're talking about Ukraine in the development They've had throughout The war.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: but That's not dual-use?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: That is very clearly a defense tech application.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Do you believe there should always be civilian application To defense tech developments?
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: or as argument say No, we're developing defense capabilities and that's it.
• 9:19
  Speaker 0: Everything technology is dual use like on this phone the chips in there okay?
• 9:25
  Speaker 0: That in iPhone It was possible because of a defence demand mobility The internet.
• 9:34
  Speaker 0: So why?
• 9:35
  Speaker 0: Because at the overarching framework We need to think about defense or dual use.
• 9:43
  Speaker 0: is there's always strategic competition between states and that drives technology.
• 9:48
  Speaker 0: All tech is strategic.
• 9:51
  Speaker 0: so you could start, like Palantir started on the defense.
• 9:55
  Speaker 0: it was post-Nine One one right?
• 9:58
  Speaker 0: I mean nobody could bring good fuse.
• 10:00
  Speaker 0: intelligence That was available or data that was available from different sources because they all stove pipe didn't talk to each other.
• 10:08
  Speaker 0: but look at Palantira.
• 10:09
  Speaker 0: today They're applying what they did for the militaries, intelligence into the commercial side.
• 10:16
  Speaker 0: SpaceX is a very good example.
• 10:18
  Speaker 0: SpaceX built rockets by blowing them up in early two thousands.
• 10:24
  Speaker 0: This was crazy.
• 10:24
  Speaker 0: it doesn't make sense you know.
• 10:26
  Speaker 0: but then there wasn't breakthrough and that government came at The biggest drivers of space.
• 10:30
  Speaker 0: today You can look examples.
• 10:34
  Speaker 0: companies have been listed Planet Labs.
• 10:38
  Speaker 0: They started with using Earth observation to look at climate changes, methane emissions and all that.
• 10:44
  Speaker 0: But today they are pivoted almost ninety percent I would say based on their revenues To defence And then just built a plan in Germany.
• 10:56
  Speaker 0: Even for AI.
• 10:57
  Speaker 0: there is planetary intelligence.
• 11:00
  Speaker 0: Why do you need planetary intelligence?
• 11:02
  Speaker 0: Because we scan the earth all of time.
• 11:05
  Speaker 0: What is really worth looking at?
• 11:06
  Speaker 0: It's only two reasons.
• 11:07
  Speaker 0: One, it for the hedge fund traders which isn't very small market.
• 11:10
  Speaker 0: The rest of that is intelligence For state and quasi-state.
• 11:15
  Speaker 0: You know what I mean.
• 11:17
  Speaker 0: So doesn't matter if you start from defense Which are most difficult problems or physics Mathematics and computation you have to migrate To the civilian side.
• 11:26
  Speaker 0: If your intact like Nvidia then move on to military site.
• 11:31
  Speaker 0: Yeah there so much crossover.
• 11:32
  Speaker 0: I have no contradiction.
• 11:35
  Speaker 0: Okay, yeah.
• 11:37
  Speaker 0: Tag is always dual use or tag it's just like that?
• 11:39
  Speaker 0: I won't even say dual-use.
• 11:41
  Speaker 0: You can both be civilian and soldier at the same time.
• 11:44
  Speaker 0: Why can't we co-exist?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: But you mentioned in the very beginning when talking about your background... ...you said that At a time where you started joining NUS And this whole program Six
• 11:55
  Speaker 0: months ago.
• 11:56
  Speaker 0: Yeah, six
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: month.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: He said defense tech that they said defense tech isn't investable.
• 12:01
  Speaker 0: It's investible, it is investible.
• 12:04
  Speaker 0: If this isn't... Investible what I'm doing here?
• 12:07
  Speaker 0: The VCs and all like you know Incutel as a sponsor B Capital OTP Ventures the biggest uh- They call themselves dual use VC but Europeans want to be politically correct.
• 12:19
  Speaker 0: But their biggest investment satellite company And reason why its the biggest ICI Because he was looking
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: at the wars
• 12:26
  Speaker 0: going on.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: So, in that sense then... And of
• 12:29
  Speaker 0: course Kebysa I got to say it.
• 12:30
  Speaker 0: That's Mendes VCM.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Well Europe is reflecting the same pattern obviously because of Ukraine defense tech applications technology It all coming out of Europe into Ukraine and vice versa.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: What do you think than Singapore can take from relationship and industrial push that Europe has seen?
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: in that defence tech sector?
• 12:53
  Speaker 0: Well, you look at the problems we have with hackathon.
• 12:56
  Speaker 0: It's derived from Ukraine and our partners from European Defence Tech Hub Ben Woeber.
• 13:02
  Speaker 0: Ben Woerber gave us a bunch of challenges he used over the thirty-over hackathons he has done in Europe.
• 13:10
  Speaker 0: We translated them into problems on our own Little Red Dome.
• 13:17
  Speaker 0: Why is it called Little Red Dot?
• 13:19
  Speaker 0: because if I look at map The Little Red Dome is to protect Singapore as a little... To protect the Little Red Dot.
• 13:26
  Speaker 0: So every country has its dome.
• 13:28
  Speaker 0: If you can protect Singapore, You can protect other cities around the world.
• 13:31
  Speaker 0: There are thousands of cities all over the world.
• 13:34
  Speaker 0: so if we could build the tech stack for the Little red dome it's very investable idea.
• 13:40
  Speaker 0: New battalions, new battalons derived from drone wars.
• 13:44
  Speaker 0: They're no more human beings in the battlefield.
• 13:47
  Speaker 0: You go out there, you'll be chased by drones or you will be chasing human beings with drones.
• 13:53
  Speaker 0: So that is a fact we want to then adapt.
• 13:57
  Speaker 0: We do not need the kind of drone in Ukraine because have you seen our weather?
• 14:01
  Speaker 0: It's really hot!
• 14:02
  Speaker 0: Put your iPhone... Out there in the sun and look at it.
• 14:05
  Speaker 0: after thirty minutes, you know what I'm gonna tell ya?
• 14:08
  Speaker 0: iPhone is going to work for thirty minutes until it cools down.
• 14:14
  Speaker 0: So this is the reality.
• 14:17
  Speaker 0: We are in a tropics, we need jungle drones!
• 14:19
  Speaker 0: We do not need the same drones as Inducrate.
• 14:21
  Speaker 0: It would be good to know what they're doing.
• 14:23
  Speaker 0: But you have to customise here Geography... As I've always said it's destiny.
• 14:27
  Speaker 0: I was an A-II C Hawkeye.
• 14:29
  Speaker 0: We fly twenty four thousand to thirty two thousand feet.
• 14:32
  Speaker 0: It was so boring and i'm looking down at geography.
• 14:36
  Speaker 0: It looks like the same all time Except for Singapore.
• 14:39
  Speaker 0: we get bigger Because we reclaim land up to our territorial waters.
• 14:46
  Speaker 0: Yeah, so you know why it's called Beach Road because the beach was built but today The whole beach road is full of skyscrapers on Beach Road.
• 14:52
  Speaker 0: Can you imagine?
• 14:53
  Speaker 0: What a stupid name for a beach road.
• 14:55
  Speaker 0: right
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I can't give any comment.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: But
• 14:59
  Speaker 0: that's history right?
• 14:59
  Speaker 0: Tell you where the beach was.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: yeah so but You know when and i've already had many conversations today with different people involved in us And you know different aspects and The conversation always turns to the benefits of International partners and what we can learn from each other.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: But I have to imagine a defense tech doesn't quite work like That because in-of its nature is a national interest And it's one thing to say Europe and Ukraine when we're together, right?
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: It is a natural ally.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And geographically speaking its part of us.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: but if were talking about Singapore in Europe that would be more tricky relationship isn't it?
• 15:39
  Speaker 0: Well I mean depends on how you define sovereign defence tech If thats what your driving at You.
• 15:44
  Speaker 0: look at Singapore.
• 15:45
  Speaker 0: We are small in terms of population.
• 15:47
  Speaker 0: There only like three point three billion Singaporeans Island.
• 15:51
  Speaker 0: We have a population of six million people.
• 15:53
  Speaker 0: that's because of People who are PRs and expats on all that to help grow our economy.
• 15:59
  Speaker 0: So my point is sovereign defense tech need not be built by Singaporeans.
• 16:05
  Speaker 0: Okay, it has to be operated by Singaporean so we can build.
• 16:08
  Speaker 0: look at the hackathon here.
• 16:10
  Speaker 0: I would say about maybe Seventy-five percent of people are Singaporeans.
• 16:14
  Speaker 0: The rest are people.
• 16:16
  Speaker 0: were students in Singapore.
• 16:17
  Speaker 0: you know people from India.
• 16:20
  Speaker 0: they're doing, most of them are doing like master's program.
• 16:23
  Speaker 0: Exchange students who are undergrads also here and then people just flying in from Europe or the US.
• 16:33
  Speaker 0: They're hacking on Singapore derived defence challenges with commercially available technologies.
• 16:41
  Speaker 0: Let me look at geography.
• 16:46
  Speaker 0: How would I say it's not difficult to know what our security challenges are,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: right?
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah and I mean where?
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: because you've just mentioned students coming from India and all this.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: how important is the academic system to the development of defense tech?
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And how has that pipeline always existed?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: or does something at CERN exist
• 17:07
  Speaker 0: now?
• 17:08
  Speaker 0: This is just starting right now.
• 17:09
  Speaker 0: Just academics.
• 17:10
  Speaker 0: some look into where they're after they do their hacking.
• 17:13
  Speaker 0: They may want to give up there their academic careers or rather course.
• 17:18
  Speaker 0: They take a year out, I've seen this!
• 17:20
  Speaker 0: A year-out two years and after that you know what?
• 17:23
  Speaker 0: Successful startup.
• 17:24
  Speaker 0: they give up in university all today.
• 17:26
  Speaker 0: they are learning on the job.
• 17:29
  Speaker 0: i always tell people who entrepreneurs.
• 17:31
  Speaker 0: they approach life very differently.
• 17:34
  Speaker 0: there risk takers.
• 17:35
  Speaker 0: That's why your crazy enough to be an entrepreneur.
• 17:38
  Speaker 0: Risk equals return.
• 17:39
  Speaker 0: This is where we're going for moonshots because The safe life, Singapore is very comfortable.
• 17:47
  Speaker 0: Like yesterday one of the speakers for A-Five had said that all role models are civil servants because they're best people given scholarships.
• 17:55
  Speaker 0: we have a system and you need to new role models who are entrepreneurs.
• 18:00
  Speaker 0: I'm hopefully able build it And if you can't build that thing in Singapore You gotta send them out.
• 18:07
  Speaker 0: So not sure whether your aware that Singapore has.
• 18:11
  Speaker 0: We won the hundred meters gold medal in the Rio Olympics for butterfly.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Oh,
• 18:18
  Speaker 0: yeah That's that's the guy very famous guy called Joseph schooling used to come from my school.
• 18:21
  Speaker 0: I use to do a bit of swimming and water polo mm-hmm.
• 18:24
  Speaker 0: He had talent And The parents mortgage their home To send your son to train with the best in United States In Florida for Butterfly?
• 18:33
  Speaker 0: And that's how ten years later he won the gold medal for Singapore.
• 18:38
  Speaker 0: so you got up.
• 18:39
  Speaker 0: You watch football A bit.
• 18:41
  Speaker 0: Okay, I'm a crazy Liverpool fan.
• 18:44
  Speaker 0: If you want to play football today You have go the Premier League.
• 18:48
  Speaker 0: That's where the talent is and that money is.
• 18:51
  Speaker 0: So yes i agree with you.
• 18:52
  Speaker 0: it will be difficult But Where there are difficulties thats when theres a moat.
• 18:58
  Speaker 0: And today You probably not aware but Singapore has got four squarants in United States.
• 19:03
  Speaker 0: We've had sixteen in Arizona for like thirty over years Apaches in Arizona at fifteen in Mountain Home, Idaho and we're standing up our F- Thirty Five Squadron at Arkansas.
• 19:15
  Speaker 0: So I believe the future strategic partnership between US and Singapore.
• 19:20
  Speaker 0: In two thousand five.
• 19:21
  Speaker 0: when negotiated that agreement uh...between us and Singapore was actually in The White House when there were signed between Bush Forty Three and Our Prime Minister.
• 19:29
  Speaker 0: so i understand that markets, strategic markets And in defense type it will be a lot more mutual because we're talking about global supply chains.
• 19:40
  Speaker 0: Critical minerals, critical supplies and all that... Yeah!
• 19:46
  Speaker 0: And that is mutual.
• 19:48
  Speaker 0: so Singapore has got something to offer in this supply chain which is linked long and longer wars- which are economic war Unique Global Supply Chains or at least coalitions to fight the kind of war.
• 20:03
  Speaker 0: Okay
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: And so you said that just started six months, right?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: That you began this partnership here.
• 20:08
  Speaker 0: No I took out the job and was given a job six
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: months ago.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: So then what do you see as completion of your work?
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: because You've talked to me about where we want sales going potential but Do have goal in mind?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: The
• 20:22
  Speaker 0: completion on my job.
• 20:24
  Speaker 0: My goal is when i get set Because Im kind of like virus within system to corrupt the host or invade and change how a host behaves.
• 20:40
  Speaker 0: And sometimes I might be thrown out, right?
• 20:44
  Speaker 0: But that's only way of moving because you have to move fast.
• 20:48
  Speaker 0: And universities tend to be quite traditional in this sense.
• 20:52
  Speaker 0: but so far first they got me in.
• 20:54
  Speaker 0: They allow me my own title as professor for defense innovation applications.
• 21:02
  Speaker 0: How on the world is that?
• 21:05
  Speaker 0: I don't think any other university has anyone with their title.
• 21:08
  Speaker 0: And they allow me to have, or they encourage when you give me funding refuge and do this so... The Defense Venture Lab.
• 21:17
  Speaker 0: it's a startup building other startups.
• 21:19
  Speaker 0: So we've got sixty-two teams right now running sixty two teams in my whatsapp group.
• 21:23
  Speaker 0: Sixty-two whatsapp groups are what's happening for me!
• 21:25
  Speaker 0: So i'm back to my days at A to C Haukai where every text its like contact after click and respond.
• 21:33
  Speaker 0: Yeah I had six radios calling me at the same time, four hundred tracks on my screen because a processing was human.
• 21:40
  Speaker 0: now we want to change that to agents yeah?
• 21:43
  Speaker 0: And you don't even need a screen!
• 21:44
  Speaker 0: Because upstream agent will sort everything out sure.
• 21:47
  Speaker 0: well
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: it seems like your right person for the job so i
• 21:50
  Speaker 0: know about that very
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: much Gary.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: its been pleasure.