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The ADHD trap: Why stimulants are failing our kids, and the natural fix that works · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:08
  Hard hitting medical truth, cutting through conflict and confusion to the understanding you're searching for.
• 0:15
  Join Dr.
• 0:16
  Peter McCullough, world renowned medical expert and practicing physician for this edition of the McCullough Report.
• 0:24
  Your life may depend on it.
• 0:27
  Let's get real.
• 0:28
  Let's get loud on America Loud Talk News.
• 0:30
  This is McCullough Report and Focal Point Substack.
• 0:33
  It's a great honor to welcome to the program for the very first time, Dr.
• 0:37
  Todd Bourne.
• 0:38
  I met Dr.
• 0:39
  Bourne at an academic meeting, and he gave a terrific lecture on attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD.
• 0:47
  So I wanted to bring on the program and really just you know highlight what he's learned about this now very common disorder in children and some practical approaches.
• 0:57
  Dr.
• 0:57
  Bourne, welcome to the program.
• 0:59
  Sure.
• 0:59
  Thank you, Dr.
• 1:00
  I'm Colour for inviting me.
• 1:01
  So yeah, I've been um in practice for 16 years, and I see a lot of you know patients that get referred to be, you know, adolescents, young children, even adults with ADHD and various, you know, mixed type, you know, and then of course they're the comorbidities that come along with that anxiety and depression and insomnia and there's their conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, whether DSM five classification you want to assign to it.
• 1:29
  But most children are being brought to me uh because of a usually a handful of things.
• 1:34
  One, there is some pressure in the school to medicate the child, you know, to get them to be able to focus and pay attention and be less disruptive.
• 1:42
  Uh, and they either want to try alternatives to the medications since they, you know, I'm not anti-medication, time and place for everything, but they're not certainly without their side effects, and they're just a band-aid, they're not a fix.
• 1:55
  And as an age, so it's before that's a good teaser, but before we get into it, why don't you you just uh introduce yourself in terms of your background, your training and where you live and practice now?
• 2:05
  Sure.
• 2:06
  So this is my 16th year of practice, and I am a naturopathic physician, and I graduated from Bass Deer University in 2010, and I completed my residency at the Bastards Center for Natural Health in Seattle, Washington.
• 2:20
  It's 13 teaching clinics.
• 2:22
  And then I was fortunate to actually rotate through uh the Seattle area hospitals.
• 2:27
  So I was in two emergency departments.
• 2:29
  I was at the Virginia Mason Department of Fiz Med and Rehab.
• 2:33
  So I got a lot of, you know, the emergency medicine, conventional medicine, naturopathic integrated functional medicine training.
• 2:41
  Uh, and then I practiced in Connecticut for two years with my wife, and then we practiced in California for five years back to the Pacific Northwest, where uh we sold the California practice and then went to a 100% telehealth model in 2019 before COVID.
• 3:00
  So COVID happened, right?
• 3:02
  I was just, you know, in pole position and uh was already uh doing telehealth.
• 3:06
  So about 70% of my practice is the United States, and 30% is uh all international.
• 3:12
  So I get patients from all over the world.
• 3:14
  So it's it's interesting to see these systems.
• 3:17
  Great place.
• 3:17
  I think as a as we uh I you and I were chatting, um, I you know I did my training at USA Washington, so I know the Seattle hospitals.
• 3:24
  Well, though I was there a long time ago in the the 1980s.
• 3:28
  Now, before we get into um, you know, all these clinical aspects.
• 3:33
  Can you just tell us about the problem of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder?
• 3:39
  You know, how is it defined?
• 3:41
  How is it detected?
• 3:42
  And how big of a problem is it in America?
• 3:45
  All right, though, that's a really good question.
• 3:47
  So, you know, the DSM 4 had ADD, right?
• 3:50
  Attention deficit disorder.
• 3:52
  But those are people who were not hyperactive, they just couldn't really focus or pay attention.
• 3:57
  Then when the DSM 5 came out, they just merged everything under one umbrella, which is attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder, and then you have predominantly inattentive type, you have predominantly you know, hyperactive type, or what really most, at least in children end up with the mixed type.
• 4:16
  And it's certainly highly prevalent, but there's still a big stigma around the ability to focus and pay attention, and um, particularly in children, well, well, my child isn't like the other children, they can't sit still.
• 4:28
  And some of the more progressive schools help adapt versus back in my day as a child in the early 80s, right?
• 4:35
  It's like everybody was just on methylphenidate.
• 4:37
  That's what you did, or you were kicked out of school, essentially.
• 4:40
  Now schools tend to be more progressive, more tolerant, realize there's all these other interventions and even following the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines that are non-you know, medication, right?
• 4:53
  Behavior modifications, you know, learning modifications, testing modifications, but in our fast pace, and you know this very well as a medical doctor, right?
• 5:03
  When you have five, seven, ten minutes with a patient, it's much easier just to write out the prescription pad and then here, because this will work.
• 5:11
  Um, and hopefully the side effects are low, and your child will be fine.
• 5:15
  But as soon as you stop those medications, all the symptoms come back.
• 5:18
  And then in adulthood, right, they have a lot more problems, and you build tolerance to the medications and you know, then the medications aren't without their problems.
• 5:26
  But uh, most people, you know, in adulthood, they're not really even properly diagnosed or assessed.
• 5:32
  They just before we get again, before we get into the clinical practice, which is what we do every day.
• 5:38
  Let's describe the problem.
• 5:40
  So, how is it defined?
• 5:42
  You're talking about the diagnostic and statistical manual.
• 5:44
  How is it?
• 5:45
  How does a doctor define it and how common is this in the country?
• 5:49
  Right.
• 5:50
  It's extremely common.
• 5:51
  I mean, the exact epidemiology varies, you know, from 10% to 14%.
• 5:56
  And these surveys, sometimes they'll just survey the parents and what the parents think the child has.
• 6:01
  And you know, there's obviously adult ADHD, but we'll focus on adolescents since that's um what most people are familiar with.
• 6:08
  And that's when you can make the most change, right?
• 6:10
  Why the brain is still neuroplastic.
• 6:12
  And, you know, they're usually about anywhere between 10 and 15%.
• 6:16
  And then if you look at CDC data, they're saying in the United States anyway, anywhere between six and eight percent.
• 6:22
  But it's certainly a growing problem.
• 6:25
  And in even international statistics show our ability to pay attention and focus is going down, you know, even just a few years ago.
• 6:34
  Well, so yes, my question is it truly organically growing, or is it just increased recognition of a problem that's been there the whole time?
• 6:43
  I would say it's both, but I think it's more also our environment, right?
• 6:47
  I mean, look at social media, the can, you know, the concophony, the constant bombardment with information and you know, the scrolling on the social media.
• 6:57
  Um, people just don't sit and read a book like they used to, right?
• 7:00
  Read a book like they used to, right?
• 7:01
  I mean, the attention went down from like on average from 10 seconds to eight seconds just in the last five years.
• 7:01
  I mean, the the attention went down from like on average from 10 seconds to eight seconds just in the last five years.
• 7:08
  And wow, you know, business makes a lot of money.
• 7:08
  And wow, you know, business makes a lot of money.
• 7:11
  I look at Meta, right?
• 7:11
  I look at Meta, right?
• 7:12
  Who owns Instagram and Facebook?
• 7:12
  Who owns Instagram and Facebook?
• 7:14
  They have very good metrics on how long someone stays on, say, a social media post and how quickly they're gonna flip up and how many milliseconds to seconds you have in order to be able to capture that person on their story, right?
• 7:14
  They have very good metrics on how long someone stays on, say, a social media post and how quickly they're going to flip up and how many milliseconds to seconds you have in order to be able to capture that person on their story, right?
• 7:29
  The
• 7:29
  The lead, the tag, right?
• 7:31
  The to lure them in to stay longer.
• 7:34
  And you see this a lot with kids, right?
• 7:36
  The screen time.
• 7:37
  And the studies are pretty consistently bearing that out.
• 7:40
  That it's it's um we live in a culture that is now fostering this inability to pay attention.
• 7:47
  And then even in adulthood, like the workplace, right?
• 7:50
  The multitasker is glorified when you look at neuroscientists, right?
• 7:54
  They're saying that the human is not designed to be a true multitasker.
• 7:59
  There really is no such thing.
• 8:01
  So do you think social media is actually truly contributing to pathologic ADHD?
• 8:09
  I think that's part of it.
• 8:10
  Most kids aren't on social media.
• 8:12
  I think it's just like YouTube kids.
• 8:15
  I have four children of my own, right?
• 8:16
  And I I know, and um, they have these, you know, guidelines for screen time, but just the ability of what that does to the reward centers of our brain.
• 8:24
  Like, you know, when you and I were kids, if it's like you sat there and you had your clicker and you didn't even have cable, you had to maybe get up and turn the dial to change the channels.
• 8:31
  And now it's instant gratification.
• 8:34
  You can sit there on YouTube kids or any of these platforms and just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll and find exactly what you want.
• 8:41
  That's I think re hardwiring the brain to be inpatient and a lack of focus because it's like, you know, why do I need this?
• 8:50
  I mean, all these YouTube shorts and these other things, they're meant to be very short duration because people just cannot pay attention anymore.
• 8:59
  Do you think um there are socio cultural determinants outside of social media that have played a role?
• 9:08
  I mean, to come to mind.
• 9:09
  I I don't remember any kids uh when I was in school in the 1960s that had ADHD.
• 9:15
  I really don't.
• 9:16
  Um, but uh we had two things back then, and and things have changed, you know, times have changed, but we had corporal punishment.
• 9:25
  Yeah, I mean, if if a kid was acting up and all over the place and went to the principal's office, you that kid was paddled, I mean, with a wooden paddle, and it hurt.
• 9:36
  And uh that kept a lot of people just you know, still and not squirming around, I think.
• 9:43
  Uh, and then the other thing that we had back then is we had a ton of physical activity.
• 9:48
  We actually had mandatory physical education, kids were playing outside, and just I just remember endless hours of physical exertion.
• 9:57
  Do you think any of these really have a role?
• 10:00
  If we have to take a child and and bolt him into a desk for six or eight hours a day, um right.
• 10:07
  Yeah, that those are good points you bring up.
• 10:09
  I mean, the days of punishment versus discipline, that's different, right?
• 10:13
  Discipline, children need discipline, right?
• 10:15
  Everybody does.
• 10:16
  You need to be able to have a routine and focus and strategy.
• 10:21
  Otherwise, I mean, they're a child.
• 10:23
  The child is supposed to be wild and imaginative, but there's a time and place to be calm, there's a time and place to be quiet, there's a time and place to be creative, and more progressive schools um can instill that.
• 10:35
  You know, just tying the kid to the chair really isn't gonna work, you know, even if it's euphorically, but um, but yeah, you're you're right, is that you know, when even when I was a kid, you went outside and you played, you know, you played with your friends, you play in the street, you played games, you're always playing activities, and in school, lots and lots of you know, recesses and you know, PE and things to run off that excessive energy.
• 11:01
  And then, of course, you know, you kind of have a few minutes to come back in and you calm down.
• 11:05
  But humans, as you know, we are not designed to sit and just be talked to for hours and hours and hours at a time.
• 11:14
  And that's the way the US school system is built, right?
• 11:17
  It's very efficient to disseminate information, not efficient to learn.
• 11:21
  So I think schools, at least my kids, we live in Gig Harbor, Washington, and they do seem even the public school systems are very progressive, almost monessory, like hands-on learning, skills learning, group learning.
• 11:35
  Uh, you know, we're things aren't just a teacher standing up in front of the room pontificating, but you're right, is that you know, my kids are just as susceptible.
• 11:43
  They'll go outside and play with the kids in the neighborhood, and the kids will be like, I'm bored, I don't know what to do.
• 11:48
  What do you mean you don't have to do?
• 11:50
  Your child, go play.
• 11:52
  It's like what you don't have your tablet, you don't know how to play.
• 11:55
  But you know, there's an old saw.
• 11:57
  It's it's hard to not fall into it, but and uh and some cultures have a word for it, but do you know every successive generation thinks the way they did it when they were kids?
• 12:11
  It was is better or more disciplined or more virtuous than the subsequent generation.
• 12:17
  Yeah, so you know, there were parents back in you know, the mid-19th century, let's say 1850, that said, you know, the kids uh now in 1870 are lazy, they don't respect their parents, they don't pay attention, what have you?
• 12:33
  And nothing changed.
• 12:34
  It was still pen and paper and largely an agrarian society.
• 12:39
  But it's true, every successive generation.
• 12:42
  So I look back and I say, wow, we didn't have all these uh problems and corporal punishment.
• 12:47
  Could it be could the reality be that every generation faces all these new challenges, faces all these new pressures, and that the human bind and body is just adapting to this.
• 13:09
  I have three older brothers, and I talk to my mom, and she just says, you know, I'm just thankful that I didn't have to raise you guys in the days of today of the tablets and the social media and the internet, because you guys could use your your creativity more.
• 13:22
  But you know, these kids nowadays, right?
• 13:24
  They're literally like born with a phone in their hands.
• 13:27
  Yeah, they know how to use that.
• 13:29
  My two-year-old can, you know, when he gets his tablet time, he has his YouTube kids and is his Kadopi and these learning apps, he can navigate those, and he, of course, he can't read faster than I can navigate them, you know.
• 13:42
  And I'm not sure.
• 13:44
  And how old is he?
• 13:45
  He's two.
• 13:46
  My youngest.
• 13:46
  He's two years old.
• 13:48
  Yeah.
• 13:48
  So he has these games on there, and he builds things, and but he also is we also like, okay, it's enough screen time, and now let's take that to real world, and he'll play with his other siblings with magnetiles and Lego blocks.
• 14:00
  And Lego blocks.
• 14:01
  But I have to say that I just the world changes.
• 14:01
  But yeah, I have to say that I just the world changes, and uh the generations that we're in are managing the velocity of change.
• 14:06
  And the generations that we're in are managing the velocity of change.
• 14:12
  Uh, you think from the 18th century, 19th century, you know, early 20th century.
• 14:13
  You think from the 18th century, 19th century, you know, early 20th century.
• 14:20
  It's it's paper and pencil.
• 14:20
  It's it's paper and pencil.
• 14:22
  That's it.
• 14:22
  That's it.
• 14:23
  That's all you have.
• 14:23
  That that's all you have.
• 14:25
  And then this velocity of change, the electrification around 1910, 1920.
• 14:25
  And then this velocity of change, the electrification around 1910.
• 14:31
  And you know, when I was a kid, um, there was there were no phones in the house.
• 14:39
  You could go to a phone booth and call, and then I remember the very first early phones in the house, there were party lines we had to share with other neighbors down the street.
• 14:48
  And I certainly remember, you know, going through the entirety of my education uh without computers.
• 14:56
  So it was paper and pencil, and then you know, glass slides on the board or chalkboard, what have you.
• 15:03
  Um, and then sure enough, you know, it you know, all this happens.
• 15:07
  And so now we're on uh, you know, computers and cell phones, and and um uh and so it it's impossible to look back, but I think the velocity of change now is so substantial that no one could have envisioned a two-year-old could navigate navigate YouTube.
• 15:25
  Yeah, it it it's it's that's it's so hyperbolic, you know, it goes at this crazy pace, and in my own kids' school, so they have you know, stand there's Washington State standardized tests, and there's the national standardized test, and they start to be assessed in first grade, and everything that they learn for the most part, you know, is still old school pen and paper.
• 15:47
  I mean, they have these TV screens that the teacher can touch and they do a lot of electronic learning and they try to balance, but when they take their standardized tests, it's all on the computer.
• 15:58
  So the teachers oh, when you meet with them for their conference, they warn you that they're like, Look, the scores on this are going to be lower than what it is in class, because they're they're just trying to learn how to uh find use a computer and find out what to click, where to click, and some of them don't read that well, and so they don't do any of these tests on like scantron bubbles or pen and paper.
• 16:23
  So it's like they learn one way on paper, and then everything else is all on the computer, and then when they get to high school, all their homework is turned on, it's turned in on computers.
• 16:35
  You know, like let me just ask you a few basic questions about this condition or this diagnosis, ADHD.
• 16:43
  You know, is it a clinical diagnosis?
• 16:46
  Is it just something a doctor says a patient has, or it or is it subject to some type of you know, psychometric uh instrument to make the diagnosis?
• 16:56
  Right.
• 16:57
  That's a good question.
• 16:58
  So it is a diagnosis of clinical observation and the DSM, you know, the way it works is that you have specific criteria, it has to be going on for six months or longer.
• 17:07
  The symptoms have to be present in two or more scenarios.
• 17:12
  So if they just have symptoms at home and not at school or vice versa, they don't technically qualify for it.
• 17:18
  So there is a criteria that they meet.
• 17:20
  So if, like, say they are just an animal at school, but they're well behaved at home, they don't technically qualify, but it's a pediatrician or the family practice, it's just mostly going to go on what the parents are relaying, and also sometimes what the kids doing in the office, right?
• 17:36
  If they're trash in your office and they're you know, you can tell that um they're obviously very hyper and they're impulsive and et cetera, then it's it's a given.
• 17:44
  There are some more advanced testing.
• 17:47
  There's actually this questionnaire that um you you have to pay for it to download, but then you can use it in your practice forever that has been showed it's just a questionnaire for the the parents and then also the teacher, and then um the child can depending on the age can answer some questions, and then it rates on a score and gives you a higher probability.
• 18:05
  But again, in clinical reality, you know, parent comes in, they have this and that going on, they're talking about the child, they're just gonna get the diagnosis.
• 18:13
  They're really not doing these in the clinical world.
• 18:16
  And when you do a video call with the parents uh and or the child or both, can you ascertain that over uh over basically a video call?
• 18:25
  Yeah, usually um it depends on the child, but I'm mostly going by what the parents are telling me, and also you know, clinical practice, right?
• 18:33
  You kind of know, you know, most of the time they're not gonna be malingering, right?
• 18:38
  They're like, my child is this, that.
• 18:39
  And usually the people are getting brought to me, they either failed medications, don't tolerate them, or they don't want to go on them, or they're adults and they're just over medicated and they're like, I can't even sleep because I'm on so much, you know.
• 18:51
  Oh, okay.
• 18:52
  So so the patients you're seeing essentially have an established diagnosis.
• 18:56
  Usually having stuffing diagnosis about 10% of the time, the parent will say, Look, I think my child has got ADHD, or they'll like they're like, I'm on a doctor or something.
• 19:06
  But now that the world of it used to be Dr.
• 19:08
  Google, now it's like Dr.
• 19:10
  ChatGPT, Dr.
• 19:12
  Dr.
• 19:12
  AI, they'll be like, oh, I plug this into the you know, chat GPT, and I think they come in with all these presumed diagnoses, and then we have that conversation about AI hallucinations and things like that.
• 19:23
  Well, how good if if a parent, you know, types in a paragraph of kind of vignette of their child, and then they hit these high points in terms of chronicity, and then it occurs at school at home and what have you.
• 19:36
  How good is AI and in saying, yeah, it's ADHD?
• 19:40
  I would say maybe 50%.
• 19:43
  Really?
• 19:44
  Right?
• 19:44
  Okay, it'll it'll give you a lot of other, you know, AI is only as good as the language that you put in there, right?
• 19:51
  That's how it works.
• 19:52
  And so you can kind of feed it whatever you want, and then it prompts you for all these other things.
• 19:56
  And I would say in that world, that it can do a pretty good job.
• 20:00
  I get lots of patients that come in with all sorts of conditions, and I'm I won't read the whole AI script because they're too long, but most of the time it's totally incorrect, right?
• 20:09
  Okay, that's not accurate.
• 20:11
  Uh uh of those with established diagnosis of AGHD.
• 20:16
  What are the common comorbidities or the other conditions that exist in that patient with ADHD?
• 20:24
  Right.
• 20:25
  Another good question, which I talked about when I give this ADHD presentation at conferences, I think a lot of these comorbidities are totally ignored, or they're not really assessed because they're very common.
• 20:36
  You're talking up to like 60, 70% of individuals who have ADHD have these other comorbidities.
• 20:43
  Okay.
• 20:43
  Anxiety, you know, and it's a little bit different in adults.
• 20:47
  It tends to be more depression, anxiety, and substance abuse, which makes sense to me because they're self-medicating, right?
• 20:54
  You know, you're trying to calm down at the end of the day, trying to go to sleep.
• 20:58
  So what do you usually do?
• 21:00
  You maybe consume some alcohol or something.
• 21:00
  Maybe consume some alcohol or something.
• 21:02
  In children, I think the anxiety piece is missed a lot.
• 21:02
  In children, I think the anxiety piece is missed a lot.
• 21:06
  Um, and it that also may be because you know, in children, it's hard for them to explain.
• 21:06
  Um, and it that also may be because you know, in children, it's hard for them to explain, they don't know what anxiety is.
• 21:11
  They don't know what anxiety is, but you know, and I'm not a mental health care professional, I just see a lot of mood disorders and ADHD.
• 21:12
  But you know, and I'm not a mental health care professional, I just see a lot of mood disorders and ADHD.
• 21:18
  But I think um what's more outstanding, which is the obvious when I get kids who have not only ADHD, but the parents are bringing it to me, they don't really even care so much about that.
• 21:18
  But I think um what's more outstanding, which is the obvious when I get kids who have not only ADHD, but the parents are bringing it to me, they don't really even care so much about that.
• 21:29
  But the
• 21:29
  But the kid who is extremely defiant, aggressive, violent, violent to other people, violence themselves, and that's where they're really quite concerned because they're like, we all walk around eggshells around our child.
• 21:42
  Yeah, they they're really hyper, and we love our child, but the hitting, the biting, they'll they'll I've had children that get brought to me, adolescents, teenagers where they like strike the mom.
• 21:52
  I'm talking like, you know, cold cock them in the face, hit him in the stomach.
• 21:55
  Oh my lord.
• 21:56
  Violent, a lot of violence, and then there's always these these overlaps.
• 22:00
  But I think that things like conduct disorder and oppositional defiant disorder, right?
• 22:05
  These are children who um have complete disregard for authority, they don't see them as authority, it's not the normal control, so discipline doesn't really work like it normally would.
• 22:16
  Right, right.
• 22:16
  So, how about other um conditions and come thinking about it?
• 22:20
  How about autism and seizures and ticks?
• 22:24
  Yeah.
• 22:25
  For me, the way I see it is that um the autism spectrum is you know, this wide, right?
• 22:33
  Where you have ADHD, mild symptoms all the way through Asperger's and full-blown ADHD.
• 22:42
  And I know there may be some listeners that you know, particularly you know, neuropsychiatrists that may or adolescent psychiatrists that may disagree.
• 22:49
  The reason I see in them is because there's so many symptoms that overlap with one another, just with varying degrees.
• 22:55
  So I do think that they're very similar, and ASD is a larger spectrum than we uh give it credit for, and I also treat them a lot the same, and I get the same results.
• 23:08
  Okay, okay, fair enough.
• 23:10
  I mean, what I know when people have tried to classify them that uh among those with ADHD, maybe uh 10% have uh autism spectrum disorder.
• 23:19
  And of those with autism spectrum disorders about a third have ADHD.
• 23:23
  So it's not kind of an equal event diagram.
• 23:25
  When when those have tried to separate it, but I'll accept that it's certainly a continuum.
• 23:31
  How about other things like uh obesity, diabetes, allergic disorders?
• 23:36
  So they may not like when a child is young and very, you know, say virulent, these things may not manifest yet.
• 23:44
  But you know, if you look at the data for diet and you know, um uh autism spectrum and ADHD, right?
• 23:53
  Is that unlike adults, they children can't control their emotions real well, they can't control their physiology really well.
• 24:01
  But as an adult, think about what happens if you haven't eaten in a while, right?
• 24:04
  Um, there's some people that can, yeah, they can go fasting forever, you know, they're fine.
• 24:08
  But for the most part, brain fog, fatigue, headaches, inability to focus, pay attention.
• 24:15
  It's the same thing with the child, but amplified, right?
• 24:18
  I mean, these are metabolically over-driven little creatures, right?
• 24:21
  So it's important to keep them eating healthy regularly, but given the American style, right?
• 24:29
  Everybody's in a rush or in the morning.
• 24:30
  You feed them some garbage cereal that's got all this artificial high sugars, so you know, their blood sugar goes like this, and they have that equal crash in the other side.
• 24:38
  So an hour into school, they're all faded out and they're irritable and they can't focus.
• 24:43
  And the teacher's more just like, all right, your kid is you know, ADHD, or you know, you're not listening, not focusing.
• 24:50
  So, and then, yes, of course, the problem with obesity in the United States is just you know, so rampant, childhood obesity.
• 24:58
  Look at these numbers, and then you're getting more blood sugar problems, more insulin problems.
• 25:03
  We're not eating uh a nice, healthy, well-balanced, you know, diet anymore.
• 25:09
  That's why it's called the standard American diet, the sad diet.
• 25:12
  So uh so is it true that if a child has an established diagnosis of ADHD, and you give them a big uh bowl of um of uh MMs or Starburst, that it actually does worsen the behaviors.
• 25:28
  Is that true?
• 25:29
  That's very true.
• 25:30
  And I've argued and debated pediatricians and family practice docs many, many times, not in a heated way, more of an intellectual academic way, where they say diet is nothing to do with your child's ADHD.
• 25:43
  They are starting to accept that yes, whole grains, you know, whole whole food diet, these things, but generally the general public and the the conventional medical model does not believe that you know, simple carbohydrates, uh artificial flavors, sugars, sweeteners, colors cause issues, but the evidence refutes that.
• 26:07
  We're not talking, you know, just observational evidence.
• 26:10
  These were many trials that were double blind, randomized, placebo-controlled, where they would give, you know, multiple, and it's not even just different, it's also different authors where they'll give uh say children with with diet with a diagnosis of DSM four or five criteria, right?
• 26:29
  And they'll give them one of these studies, for example, they gave them an artificially colored and flavored drink.
• 26:36
  Yeah, and then the control group drank something that tasted similar, looked similar, but didn't have anything artificial, and then they watched them and they basically did a bunch of subjective and objective parameters, and they showed that yeah, these kids are bouncing off the walls, they were more aggressive, and there's been two studies over and over and over have shown this.
• 26:56
  So, like with my patients, that's the first thing that we do on the treatment plan is you know, no artificial colors, sweeteners, flavors, dyes, and the parents, I usually get pushback, they're like, Well, well, my kid's such a picky eater, and they just love their fruit loops.
• 27:11
  I'm like, look, I'm not saying we're taking all everything away from them.
• 27:15
  There's so many options now.
• 27:16
  You just can you can get another brand of these fruit loops that doesn't have any of the artificial in there, and you will notice results because the studies show it, you know, and I've seen it clinically and over and over and over.
• 27:30
  So there's a lot of evidence for these, you know, simple sugars, artificial anything that worsen symptoms, even in individuals that don't have ADHD.
• 27:41
  There's studies where they give people like you and me these artificially flavored uh ingredients and sweeteners, etc.
• 27:48
  And the dyes, and then they have people do tests before and after they so take a math test and then drink this thing and then take another test and see what happens.
• 27:57
  So um, you know, when people say, Oh no, there's no evidence, and I was like, Oh, yeah, there's plenty of it.
• 28:00
  Evidence.
• 28:00
  And I was like, oh yeah, there's plenty of evidence.
• 28:03
  So that's part's pretty solid.
• 28:03
  So that part's pretty solid.
• 28:06
  Um, we've been talking to Dr.
• 28:06
  Um we've been talking to Dr.
• 28:09
  Todd Bourne, who's a naturopathic physician and who uh is is an expert in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
• 28:09
  Todd Bourne, who's a naturopathic physician and who uh is is an expert in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
• 28:17
  We're going to take a just a break for our sponsors, and we're going to be back on the backside.
• 28:17
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• 28:21
  And I really want him to fully develop his clinical approach and how he's helping people get better.
• 28:27
  Because you're going to be amazed at what you're going to learn.
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• 30:25
  We're on the back side with an expert, a naturopathic expert on attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, Dr.
• 30:33
  Bourne.
• 30:33
  Dr.
• 30:34
  Bourne, um what percent of all of these kids you see with ADHD, what percent of them have basically get put on prescription drugs?
• 30:48
  Um it depends all of them eventually will.
• 30:51
  So I get one camp where they um the parent will think they're like, my kid definitely has some symptoms.
• 31:00
  This is what I want to avoid.
• 31:01
  I'll get another camp that says my kid has already been diagnosed, the pediatrician, the school's starting to pressure me for medications.
• 31:09
  And then the other camp is people, and usually these are like preteens or teens who sadly are basically just zombies, right?
• 31:18
  They're just so medicated to keep them still and focus.
• 31:20
  Oh my god.
• 31:21
  And but they're having a lot of side effects from the medications, right?
• 31:25
  The you're having the growth problems, the anorexia, these things because it suppresses appetite.
• 31:30
  That's why it's a drug that's commonly, these drugs are commonly abused.
• 31:34
  And they're like, I don't even the child themselves, when I when I talk to them, they hate the way they feel.
• 31:40
  You know, they're just like, I'm just basically, you know, going through there, I can't sleep, I'm not hungry, I'm you know, I'm losing weight, and now I'm falling off the growth charts, right?
• 31:50
  Because I don't really eat that much.
• 31:52
  Uh, and then I've got, you know, my heart's racing, et cetera.
• 31:56
  So pretty much everybody ultimately will end up being on these medications unless yeah, unless they get what we're about to hear.
• 32:06
  But what you're saying is the natural history without some type of break in in the approach, is essentially a freight train of drugs.
• 32:16
  Yeah, pretty much.
• 32:19
  And they're largely stimulants, right?
• 32:21
  Yeah, I mean, the first line, you know, uh, of medications are, you know, the the um the amphetamine type drugs, you know, the the methylphenidates.
• 32:31
  So there's the short acting medications, the stimulants, then there's the long acting, and then there's mix.
• 32:37
  So most of the time when I see teens, they usually are taking a long acting medication in the morning that then wears off around right after lunch.
• 32:49
  So to get through the second half of their school day and then also be able to do their homework or what have you, they're usually taking in a short acting medication.
• 32:57
  So now they're just on stimulants most of the time that they're awake, and then usually they're having issues like I can't sleep, or it's making me anxious or making my heart race.
• 33:07
  I'm not really hungry.
• 33:09
  And even the parents themselves are like, I just don't like my boy anymore, right?
• 33:13
  I mean, it's it's not the same kid.
• 33:14
  They're a zombie.
• 33:15
  What do you think the general rate of having at least one side effect on these drugs is?
• 33:22
  Oh, they're very high.
• 33:23
  Most people have a side effect.
• 33:25
  So that side effect is usually loss of appetite, right?
• 33:29
  That's an appetite's present.
• 33:31
  Uh, even in before the GLP1 receptor agonists came around, most weight loss clinics, that's what the FDA does have certain some of these medications, the the stimulants prove they don't increase your metabolic rate, they just don't make you not hungry.
• 33:46
  So I would say most people are definitely having at least one of these side effects, and that's why some of these other drugs are used now, like the SNRIs and some of these other ones that are lower down on the intervention list because they're not as effective.
• 34:01
  Well, let me ask you another question.
• 34:03
  Uh of the studies that have actually done uh polysomography or a formal sleep study, what percent of people taking these drugs have a disruption in you know the healthy sleep pattern of REM and non-REM sleep.
• 34:20
  Right.
• 34:20
  I haven't looked at too much of those studies, but there's certainly uh subjectively people tell me that their sleep architecture is messed up.
• 34:26
  They're like, I can't sleep.
• 34:28
  You know, especially as you get into adulthood, right?
• 34:31
  They're like, now I've got stuff to help me focus all day, but I can't sleep, so then I gotta take my sleeping pill.
• 34:37
  And this is making me anxious, right?
• 34:39
  Because it's pharmaceutical speed.
• 34:41
  I mean, that's what amphetamines are.
• 34:44
  Right.
• 34:44
  That's my experience.
• 34:45
  You know, I'm I'm a allopathic doctor, so I see these patients too.
• 34:49
  That's my experience is that that I think they almost all have some disruption, even if they can get sleep and they go to sleep.
• 34:59
  My impression is it's not high quality sleep.
• 35:00
  Is it's not high quality sleep because if you ask them, do you feel well rested the next day?
• 35:01
  Because if you ask them, do you feel well rested the next day?
• 35:05
  Do you feel they don't?
• 35:05
  Do you feel uh they don't?
• 35:06
  And it's a vicious cycle.
• 35:06
  And it's a vicious cycle.
• 35:08
  So not feeling well rested creates uneasiness.
• 35:08
  So not feeling well rested creates uneasiness, and then and then there's this uh it tends to, I think kind of easily morph into free-floating anxiety with this uneasiness.
• 35:11
  And then and then there's this it tends to, I think, kind of easily morph into free-floating anxiety with this uneasiness.
• 35:19
  And and it becomes a vicious uh cycle.
• 35:19
  And it becomes a vicious uh cycle.
• 35:21
  So, Dr.
• 35:21
  So, Dr.
• 35:22
  Bourne, how do you unwind all this in your clinical practice?
• 35:22
  Bourne, how do you unwind all this in your clinical practice?
• 35:27
  You started to tell us about some fundamentals on.
• 35:27
  You started to tell us about some fundamentals on uh on diet, but go ahead and take it from here.
• 35:32
  Just kind of give us your comprehensive approach.
• 35:35
  Right.
• 35:36
  Yeah.
• 35:36
  And piggybacking what you said, that's a negative feed forward cycle, right?
• 35:40
  Is that they can't sleep, they don't sleep well, which directly inhibits their ability to focus, pay attention and memory.
• 35:47
  Yeah, good point.
• 35:47
  Even if you don't have ADHD, that memory and sleep are directly tied in, which a lot of people you know may forget.
• 35:53
  But for me, it's you know, as a naturopathic physician, our training is we have this thing called the therapeutic order where you're utilizing generally speaking, the least invasive, least aggressive interventions first, saving drugs and surgery is a last resort, but you have to meet the person where they are, right?
• 36:11
  Someone cuts off their arm, it's not a time for botanical medicine, right?
• 36:14
  They need emergency care.
• 36:15
  So for me, you know, they come in, they just lay it all on me, and then I'm uh I usually also look at you know, family.
• 36:22
  So I always like to say, okay, because uh ADHD is extremely genetically linked, and the genes have been pretty well identified.
• 36:30
  There's about 10 or 12 genes, and I'll always say uh they've even done studies in homozygous twins where it's like a 96% concordance rate that both twins will have ADHD.
• 36:42
  So it's highly genetic.
• 36:43
  So I'll usually say, you know, who in the family has it, you know, who's got it.
• 36:47
  And usually the mom's like, oh, dad, he can't sit still, he can't focus.
• 36:52
  And the reason I like to know this is one to help them normalize it and get rid of the stigma, but also then it's kind of a family affair, right?
• 36:59
  Let's all work together, you know, versus just the kids eating a special diet or something.
• 37:03
  Everybody's gonna have to get involved here.
• 37:06
  So for me, it's you know, what are the symptoms?
• 37:09
  What makes better and worse?
• 37:10
  Have you noticed any triggers?
• 37:12
  Um, have you done even the American Academy Pediatrics, right?
• 37:16
  Their recommendations are no medications before the age of six, unless mandatory, unless you have no other recourse.
• 37:25
  And if you look at these studies, it's something like 30% of children foreign under with an ADHD diagnosis or on medication.
• 37:34
  Oh my god.
• 37:34
  When that's not even the guidelines.
• 37:36
  Um, and I'm sure some of these that percentages, because you know, maybe they're very violent and they've got to get something right, and people want to address it.
• 37:43
  But again, it's just they're band-aids, not anti-medication, but there's a time and place, and in my experience with hundreds and hundreds of patients, you know, thousands of times of ADHD in children and all the way through adulthood.
• 37:57
  I've never had to use a medication, and they've all been able to either get off their medications, or if they're an adult, you know, and they're not as neuroplastic, maybe they're down to just five milligrams of their Adderall or something like that versus 20 or 40, and they're having all these side effects.
• 38:16
  So a lot of it is, you know, I also talk to them about diet.
• 38:19
  So really it's the first thing I end up doing with them is I talked about diet and the studies, and then we also assess where am I going to go?
• 38:27
  Is this a person who they're just super fun and just really high energy, right?
• 38:31
  Well, let's get them to do some things that are more active but still do their things, or is this now a violent child or an adult where now we have to bring on some you know different um interventions and strategies?
• 38:43
  So I use a lot of homeopathy.
• 38:45
  There's also a quite a bit of data for nutrients, and again, pediatricians don't um because it's not their training, right?
• 38:53
  Same with family practice.
• 38:55
  So a lot of evidence with children um who are aggressive and the inability to focus, have low iron.
• 39:05
  And if you talk to parents, usually it's because they're also tend to be picky eaters, they're not eating a whole lot of iron, iron-rich foods.
• 39:11
  Uh, zinc, and most people know zinc for the immune system, but zinc is a cofactor for um neurotransmitters, vitamin C and zinc.
• 39:20
  So a lot of times, you know, particularly serotonin and dopamine, right?
• 39:23
  Our mood neurotransmitters.
• 39:25
  So you kind of see us going, I look at nutrients, look at diet lifestyle.
• 39:30
  I usually will talk to them about bringing, I'm a big fan of behavioralists, because the behavioralist helps the child, gives them strategies to adapt to their environment versus just you know, losing it when their fuses is big and smashing the place.
• 39:46
  Uh, I think those are underutilized.
• 39:49
  Same with occupational therapists, it's just again, it's quick to get the script pad out.
• 39:53
  So we we talk, and I don't want to make it overwhelming to them.
• 39:55
  So the first visit is getting all the information, discussing things, triggers, you know, what makes better, what can make it worse, you know, who's got it.
• 40:04
  Okay, um, if you notice, particularly foods, we're not just the the sugary foods or the artificial, but what about um you know food sensitivities, which is different than a food and on tolerance or a food allergy?
• 40:16
  And I'm like, if you notice anything if they eat, you know, and the common suspects would be dairy and gluten, um, and there's some good evidence with how they're degrading the body and binding to opiate receptors and different than you or me who can digest them just fine.
• 40:29
  So we talk all about these, and then I end up going through homeopathy, constitutional homeopathic medicine, and uh, like I said, doing this a million times, can't tell you how many times the teacher has gone back to the parent and said, Oh, when did they start medication?
• 40:47
  And the parents, because they usually don't want to deal, they'll just be like, they just don't say, Oh, I saw a naturopathic physician that did homeopathy and gave my son a multi and did some diet changes.
• 40:57
  They're they just you know, they'd rather just say whatever, because the teacher now sees an improvement.
• 41:03
  So it's this therapeutic order of diet, you know, lifestyle, behavior, uh, and then bringing on the supplements as needed to get intercalated in the cells, and then kind of these higher loading doses to saturate the tissues, replenish the stores, and then you can taper down.
• 41:20
  And most children, literally by diet, a multi official and the diet and the homeopathic, they have zero symptoms.
• 41:32
  Now, now what's the difference between a homeopath homeopathic and a supplement?
• 41:37
  So homeopathic medicine is actually regulated by the FDA.
• 41:41
  Homeopathy has been around for over 250 years, and it doesn't fall into the classification of a dietary supplement.
• 41:49
  And what's interesting to me, you know, I'm not a homeopath, I'm just a naturopath who uses a lot of homeopathy with my patients, and it's the most popular medical modality in the world, but it's also the most contentious medical modality.
• 42:00
  Modality in the world, but it's also the most contentious medical modality.
• 42:04
  And there are reasons for that, which you know, we won't get into, but uh, there's about 5,000 different homeopathics.
• 42:04
  And there are reasons for that, which you know, we won't get into, but uh, there's about 5,000 different homeopathics.
• 42:11
  In reality, about a hundred of those are pretty common.
• 42:11
  In reality, about a hundred of those are pretty common.
• 42:14
  And then there's another 30 or 40 of the that are called polycrests that are extremely common.
• 42:14
  And then there's another 30 or 40 of the that are called polycrests that are extremely common.
• 42:20
  That's what most children and adults end up being, except for you know, with a more pathological cases, these are the violent kids, you know, the aggressive.
• 42:20
  That's what most children and adults end up being, except for you know, with the more pathological cases, these are the violent kids, you know, the the aggressive, the aggressive individuals, they need a more pathological, deeper state remedy to kind of you know get rid of all those things.
• 42:38
  So dietary supplements would be things like vitamins, minerals, botanicals, amino acids, protein, um, and homeopathy is just a different medicine that's not technically classified as a dietary supplement.
• 42:51
  Okay.
• 42:51
  Well, you know, Adam at the lecture that I attended, you you went through some common um, you know, I believe homeopathic products or supplements or both.
• 43:02
  Can you kind of go through some of them?
• 43:04
  Just give our audience a sense of your range and depth and and how you use these.
• 43:09
  Sure.
• 43:10
  You know, when anybody sees me for anything, and I see a lot of, I see a lot of everything, but I I tend to go into the you'll get especially the very complicated, refractory, difficult to treat people.
• 43:20
  I'll say just to keep them, you know, motivated and give them some faith there that you know on their last stop, usually, I'll say you get tired of seeing me uh you before I run out of options, and that makes them feel good.
• 43:34
  And it's true.
• 43:34
  I mean, you'll all I can go a long time before my arm materium gets used up.
• 43:39
  That being said, if I haven't made a difference in someone and within like six months, I'm obviously missing something.
• 43:44
  I'm not going to just have you keep seeing me, I'll send out.
• 43:47
  But um, so homeopathy, for example, there's different kinds.
• 43:51
  One is called acute homeopathy.
• 43:53
  And those are the you know, you can go to the health food store and even many pharmacies, and there's those blue tubes from a company called Boyron, and you bang your arm and you get Arnica, right?
• 44:03
  Or you get a B sting, and you can get um some leadum.
• 44:07
  That's different than um constitutional homeopathies, where you take a person's mental, physical, and emotional self, and then you match those symptoms to a particular remedy.
• 44:20
  Uh, and then there's what I call shotgun homeopathy, and a couple of doctors at that conf at ISEM came up to me and said that they've tried some of these medicines without much success.
• 44:31
  And these are you'll go on the shelf, and lots of brands carry them, and there might be like 13 different homeopathic medicines in one tablet.
• 44:41
  And it only works if that individual with those symptoms talk about personalized, you know, medicine needs one of those homeopathics that's actually in that mix.
• 44:52
  So that's why they don't usually work.
• 44:54
  And they have stuff for allergies, they're all over.
• 44:55
  And I don't really use a whole lot of those because um I don't find them to be terribly effective, uh, versus the constitutional, which is you match one of those and you give it to them at a higher strength than what you can buy over the counter, because it is regulated by the FDA.
• 45:10
  So technically, you're not supposed to be able to buy anything over a 30 C, which is the strength, like a 200 C or a 1M online.
• 45:18
  But you know, the way e-commerce works now, it's like you can practically find anything online, even though you're not supposed to.
• 45:25
  Uh, you can, but yeah, the the homeopathic medicines, and I'll get parents that are like, oh, you know, they're trying to help their child, and they'll come in with bags of supplements and these all these homeopathics, and they're like, I haven't really noticed anything with any of these.
• 45:39
  And with any patients, I'll I'll explain why to them.
• 45:43
  I'm like, well, the reason this doesn't work is this, and this is not a good quality brand.
• 45:47
  And um, but usually it has to do with yeah, quality, but also dose.
• 45:52
  It's underdosed, right?
• 45:53
  It's not enough to actually make a therapeutic benefit, you know.
• 45:57
  Whereas someone's like, Oh, I I'm taking 500 milligrams of this omega-3.
• 46:02
  It's like, well, that's why it's not working.
• 46:04
  You need like 2,000 milligrams, and then we can start making it, you know, lowering the dose as you go by.
• 46:12
  Okay.
• 46:13
  Well, do you do you have a few though on the supplement side that you think are bedrock?
• 46:19
  Yeah, in addition to the multi.
• 46:22
  Yeah.
• 46:22
  So the I've always end up giving I'm a big fan of multivitamins, and you know, one camp will say, Oh, you're wasting your money, right?
• 46:30
  It's just you're peeing it down the drain, and you get everything through food.
• 46:33
  There's a problem with that, right?
• 46:35
  Is that Americans don't typically eat very well.
• 46:37
  That's why it's a supplement, right?
• 46:38
  It's supplementing the gaps that are missing in the diet.
• 46:41
  And also there are certain nutrients that are deplete in our soil in the United States.
• 46:46
  Magnesium is one, selenium is another.
• 46:49
  Um, or people are vegetarian, they don't get any iron or very little.
• 46:53
  The phytates in their foods block zinc absorption.
• 46:56
  You see where it's just going.
• 46:58
  So I we I discuss parents, depending on the age of the child about blood tests, right?
• 47:04
  I don't want to poke a child unless we need to.
• 47:07
  And usually they're like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I definitely want to know.
• 47:09
  I mean, I you don't want to give a child iron unless they need it, but it's very rare that I do not see iron, at least insufficient, even by CDC guidelines in the child.
• 47:19
  So, you know, we go with the multi, like the base foundation for me, and there's a big correlation to the gut, like the gut brain axis, since about 70% of our neurotransmitters are produced in our gut.
• 47:31
  So talk to the child, like what are their bowel movements like?
• 47:34
  They're like, Oh, they're they don't go for like three or four days, and then it all comes out a lot, and you know, it's really loose.
• 47:41
  And and so I usually give people a hypoallergenic probiotic, you know, if it's high quality, and then the multi, and usually these are powders because they're kids that can't swallow pills and chewables, usually aren't they not that palatable, right?
• 47:55
  They're chalky and they don't like them.
• 47:57
  And then an omega-3 um fatty acid fish oil, preferably something that has something called astexanthin.
• 48:06
  So aczanthin is what makes krill uh, you know, the the pink color or shrimp pink, but we're not talking microgram doses that you see in most supplements, it's milligrams, and that's what makes the difference.
• 48:20
  So usually it's an omega-3, you know, with some exact samples than a multi, and then we use the herbs later because again, palatability.
• 48:27
  If I'm not getting enough momentum, then we start talking about uh neutropic herbs and calming herbs and herbs that help with focus.
• 48:36
  Uh, you know, and I usually use glycerates for that because most of these botanicals are are uh they're pretty bitter, but in glycerids, they're sweet.
• 48:43
  So you can put them in a little bit of juice or just a little water, or some kids they'll just drink it right off the dropper because they have glycerin in them.
• 48:50
  Well, what are some of those uh botanicals?
• 48:54
  So there are a lot, the the the ones that are very safe and very well tolerated, right?
• 48:59
  And these are the ones that are there's classifications of botanicals, ones are called nootropics, right?
• 49:00
  These are the ones that are there's classifications of botanicals.
• 49:02
  Ones are called nootropics, right?
• 49:04
  Those are the ones that help people think, focus and memory and concentration.
• 49:04
  Those are the ones that help people think, focus and memory and concentration, and then there's the nerd when examples of that would be like go-to-cola, the copa, ginkgo.
• 49:09
  And then there's the nerd when examples of that would be like go-to-cola, the copa, ginkgo.
• 49:15
  Uh Bacopa and ginkgo can be kind of stimulating for some people.
• 49:16
  Bacopa and ginkgo can be kind of stimulating for some people.
• 49:19
  So if you know, for those who are on the more hyperactive side, I might use some other more mid range, like in um in Chinese medicine, right?
• 49:19
  So if you know, for those who are on the more hyperactive side, I might use some other more mid-range, like in um in Chinese medicine, right?
• 49:29
  You have the you have these, you know.
• 49:29
  You have the you have these yin and yang.
• 49:30
  So we have yin tonifying herbs, which are much more calming and nutritive.
• 49:34
  Yang tonifying or more stimulating herbs, like the gin, certain ginsengs.
• 49:39
  So I might go in the middle, like with go-to-cola.
• 49:41
  Then there's nervines or nervines, which would be things like lemon balm, um, you know, saffron, which has got great data.
• 49:50
  I think you might remember from my talk where there was a head-to-head trial of methylphenidate, which is Ritalin versus 28 milligrams a day of saffron or placebo, and the the saffron was effective at relieving ADHD symptoms with zero side effects, and saffron has the added benefit of helping you sleep.
• 50:10
  So it's like even the article was like they recommended this over, you know, as a first-line therapy.
• 50:18
  So then there's is saffron a common one, then do you recommend?
• 50:22
  Saffron is a common one.
• 50:24
  In in those who are more on the conduct disorder agitation type, like more aggressive.
• 50:31
  I do warn the parents that um you may see about 10% of the time the the child or the adult will be get worse, like the little more aggressive.
• 50:40
  I say, give it a month, you know, and if there's no change, because it's it works on the serotonogic system.
• 50:47
  If if they're not any better, or they're they're you know, in a month, quit the and quit the saffron.
• 50:52
  But for the most part, yeah, it's it's you know, you can it's it's it's the most expensive spice in the world, so it's easier just to get as a supplement than it is to try to buy the actual spice and mix it to something.
• 51:04
  So uh how about Ashuaganda?
• 51:07
  That's another classification is the adaptogens.
• 51:10
  So adaptogens are great because they do run this even larger spectrum where they're very stimulating versus the calming.
• 51:18
  So for example, people always think of ginseng.
• 51:21
  Well, ginseng's a great example.
• 51:23
  Panic's ginseng, which is Chinese or Asian ginseng, that's a very stimulating ginseng.
• 51:29
  Where American ginseng, panics quinquefolious, is a much more calming ginseng, but still tonifying.
• 51:35
  Ashwagana is kind of in the middle and dose dependent.
• 51:38
  So Ashwagana's got great studies, particularly on that anxiety, the more anxious type of person with ADHD, because what is an adaptogen by definition, it helps your body adapt to any physical or emotional stressor, it helps your body adapt better.
• 51:56
  And there's lots of them, rhodiola, you know, lutherococcus, licorice root.
• 52:01
  But for children, I like more of the Oshwaganda, the lemon balm, the you know, a venous sativa, which is the milky oat, it's not doesn't have gluten, the go-to cola, because those are much more calming with that hyperactive child.
• 52:18
  If you start to give them a whole bunch of these stimulating gin sings and adapted gins and these nootropics, they're just going to be bouncing off the walls, and you won't see the parent, the family, usually after a visit or two, because they're like you just made them worse.
• 52:32
  Oh my lord.
• 52:33
  So uh you take a patient and they come to you on medications, you're able to get your program going and down titrate medications.
• 52:44
  On average, how many different homeopathic remedies and how many of these supplement remedies would some somebody be on in your practice?
• 52:59
  The older they are, the harder it is to it's still doable, it's just a little slower because that brain has made those neuronal connections.
• 53:06
  So if I have a 30-year-old who's had this their whole life, it's still totally fixable, just takes a little longer, and they may need a little more tweaking.
• 53:14
  But with the homeopathic, as long as you nail it the first time, they will usually stay that remedy for a year or two until you kind of unravel what needs to be fixed, and then they go into a new remedy.
• 53:26
  And then the supplements, honestly, I usually don't end up using, I'm not a heavy-handed supplement provider in general, but in cases like this, usually 95 plus percent of the time between diet, homeopathic, the multi, the fish oil, and maybe some botanicals, you know, maybe short-term extra zinc, a zinc came up low or something in the blood test or some iron because iron was low.
• 53:51
  That's it.
• 53:51
  So maybe three to five, and that's all they need, and they don't need high doses of them after the loading doses.
• 53:59
  Right.
• 53:59
  And so, do you point your patients to a particular place to buy these and and recommend the doses?
• 54:07
  I do because so I'm an one of my hats, right?
• 54:11
  Is I'm a subject matter expert, consultant advisor to the dietary supplement industry.
• 54:15
  So I work with a lot of companies um in various channels that there's a reason that the dietary supplement industry gets a bad rap.
• 54:22
  I mean, is that there's a lot of just garbage out there?
• 54:24
  People think it's unregulated, it's not unregulated, it's highly regulated, it's poorly enforced.
• 54:30
  So it's the wild wild west, it's like a pseudo-wild wild west.
• 54:34
  So I use um I do not like Amazon or eBay because they're always in trouble.
• 54:40
  Lots of fraudulent products, contaminated products, things not meeting label claim, things not even having the right ingredients in there, things that are contaminated.
• 54:48
  So I use these professional virtual dispensaries, and what they do is they buy directly from the manufacturer, and then the uh the patients can only buy through them with my doctor account.
• 55:02
  So then I just type everything up, they they go in, they order what they need to order, and then it gets shipped to their house.
• 55:07
  Oh, wow.
• 55:07
  Okay, so that's very orderly then.
• 55:09
  It's not uh uh it's not subject to all kinds of craziness on uh Amazon or these commercial shopping.
• 55:18
  This sounds this sounds quite uh organized, Dr.
• 55:21
  Bournemouth coming to the end.
• 55:22
  This has been such a great interview.
• 55:24
  I think you've enlightened us greatly on this opportunity.
• 55:29
  Let me just ask you one last question.
• 55:31
  In your experience, when you're seeing these individuals, how many of them with your approach are you satisfied with the final result that they're better?
• 55:43
  They they can sit and focus now and what have you just give us a give us a fraction of what you think is success in your view.
• 55:50
  I would say it in anywhere below the age of 20, you know, it's been it's fortunately not gonna write, it's been 100%.
• 55:59
  I've yet to have someone who no longer even carries the diagnosis.
• 56:00
  Yet to have someone who no longer even carries the diagnosis.
• 56:04
  And when adults, because they've been more solidified, I've gotten people where they're very well controlled, and they're very pleased that uh they're just down to five milligrams of their medication, and maybe it's just the short acting to get them through the second half of the day, but they can sleep.
• 56:04
  And when adults, because they've been more solidified, I've gotten people where they're very well controlled and they're very pleased that uh they're just down to five milligrams of their medication, and maybe it's just the short acting to get them through the second half day, but they can sleep.
• 56:20
  So for me, I'm very pleased.
• 56:20
  So for me, I'm very pleased if they're pleased and they're happy with it, and they're like, No, I feel good, I feel great, I'm sleeping, I don't feel anxious anymore, I don't have any palpitation.
• 56:22
  If they're pleased and they're happy with it and they're like, no, I feel good, I feel great, I'm sleeping, I don't feel anxious anymore, I don't have any palpitations, I can focus, my relationships are better.
• 56:32
  So that's an that's an adult.
• 56:34
  How about a child?
• 56:35
  Let's just take a six-year-old child.
• 56:37
  If I hand you a six-year-old child who's you know already been started on these stimulant drugs and is all over the place, using your methods, and let's say the parents are compliant, the child's compliant.
• 56:49
  What's the chances that that child can come off the stimulant prescription medications and be on this naturopathic approach and and essentially have a success in your practice?
• 57:01
  So far, 100%.
• 57:03
  That's amazing.
• 57:05
  That's absolutely amazing.
• 57:06
  You know, we're gonna have to leave it here, but this has been such a great interview, and I hope everybody's eyes are opened up to this approach.
• 57:13
  I becoming increasingly, and I'm an allopathic doctor, I prescribe drugs.
• 57:17
  I become increasingly worried that so many children are on prescription uh stimulants.
• 57:23
  And my my gut tells me it cannot be good for our children, it can't be good for humanity, and that a reasonable naturopathic approach like this seems a just far more reasonable, safer, and and better long term.
• 57:39
  Dr.
• 57:40
  Todd Board, thank you so much for being on the program.
• 57:42
  Thanks, Dr.
• 57:43
  McCall.
• 57:43
  I appreciate it.
• 57:44
  Let's get real, let's get loud on America Loud Talk News.
• 57:47
  This is a McCullough report, true color report, and focal point sub stack.
• 57:51
  Thank you so much for listening and watching.