Latest / Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt / Kendra Whitlock Ingram on Building Arts-Fueled Cities

Transcript

Kendra Whitlock Ingram on Building Arts-Fueled Cities · Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt

0:08
Welcome back to CI to Eye. I'm Monica Holt.
0:12
My guest today is Kendra Whitlock Ingram,
0:14
President and CEO of the Pittsburgh Cultural Trust.
0:18
Kendra is running one of the country's most complex performing arts
0:22
organizations, and at the same time,
0:25
she's building the future of downtown Pittsburgh with many different
0:28
stakeholders. That future is Arts Landing,
0:32
an extraordinary project transforming four and a half acres of the city into
0:36
civic space and a cultural campus. There will be performance spaces,
0:40
a playground, pickleball courts, rotating public art...
0:44
It's going to have it all,
0:46
and the timeline for getting this project to ribbon cutting --
0:48
it's beyond ambitious and I can't wait for you to hear more about it.
0:52
Kendra covers everything from her leadership journey to her approach to urban
0:55
transformation,
0:57
and she has some serious insights to share about the future of arts
1:00
organizations and the performances that are bringing her joy today.
1:04
It was fabulous to spend some time together and I hope you enjoy. Let's dive in.
1:14
Kendra, hello! Welcome to CI to Eye.
1:17
Thank you so much for being here this season.
1:20
Thank you so much for asking me. This is going to be fun.
1:23
So just diving right in,
1:25
I would love to maybe hear a little bit about what your start with the
1:30
industry is because one thing that I've spoken about before and I think we've
1:34
even shared our thoughts on is that I'm not sure that I knew Arts
1:39
Administration was a field to get into, right?
1:43
I grew up around the arts, I grew up around theater,
1:46
but it never occurred to me that there was kind of this behind-the-curtain,
1:49
behind-the-curtain experience.
1:52
So going all the way back to Duquesne,
1:55
tell me a little bit about when you first got a glimpse of this world and what
1:59
really pulled you in.
2:01
Like you, a similar situation.
2:05
There really weren't arts management programs,
2:08
particularly at the undergraduate level, when I was in school.
2:11
So I didn't know that there were options for this. So I came to Duquesne,
2:16
I was like, I'm going to be a high school music teacher.
2:18
That was basically the plan.
2:19
Oh, I didn't know that.
2:21
Yep, from the very beginning. And somewhere, I don't know,
2:23
maybe in my second year at Duquesne,
2:26
I was kind of always this kid that was getting involved in a lot of different
2:29
things --
2:30
Not very surprising.
2:32
So I was kind of always that kid and I had gotten involved in trying to market
2:37
the student orchestra because not a lot of people came to the concerts,
2:41
and so I started a little campaign to promote the orchestra and got some people
2:45
to come. And our dean of the School of Music at the time, he said,
2:49
you might want to look at doing something in arts administration. And I'm like,
2:53
what does that mean exactly? And he's like,
2:55
you should get an internship somewhere in the cultural district.
2:58
So I got an internship at the Pittsburgh Opera and got to work on a lot of
3:02
different things and started to realize, I see this as something I could do.
3:07
And by the time I was a senior in college, I knew that I liked teaching,
3:11
I really enjoyed it, and I could definitely see myself doing that too,
3:15
but I wanted to explore where this would go,
3:19
this arts administration thing,
3:21
and someone had told me about what is now called the League of American
3:24
Orchestras,
3:25
and they had a fellowship for people who wanted to be in executive roles with
3:29
orchestras, and I thought, wow,
3:31
that's a real perfect mix of my interest in classical
3:35
music and arts administration,
3:38
and I just think I would really enjoy that. So it's kind of how I got into the
3:42
business. I did that fellowship and then I spent the next 13 years working for
3:46
professional orchestras before I shifted to performing arts centers.
3:50
Yeah,
3:51
I mean I love that the kind of arts entrepreneur became a
3:56
more sophisticated path into arts administration.
3:59
You were just saying you spent over a decade with orchestras.
4:04
You have since then also evolved that into performing arts centers at large.
4:08
You're hugely involved with Broadway and touring Broadway.
4:13
I guess that journey from moving out of the orchestras world,
4:16
because you worked with a few different companies,
4:19
and then moving into the PAC life of it
4:24
all...
4:24
Right.
4:25
What was that career journey like?
4:27
And particularly from an artistic perspective that moved into an executive
4:31
perspective.
4:32
How did you take that path and were you making conscious decisions about where
4:36
you wanted to go or was it evolving organically over time?
4:40
Yeah, so I love the orchestra world.
4:45
I love classical music,
4:46
but I was always a bit of a square peg in a round hole in that industry,
4:51
for a number of reasons. One, I just have a lot of interests.
4:54
I was that close to being a theater major, always loved musical theater.
4:59
I was the kid who was Mama Rose in Gypsy in high school.
5:03
Totally age appropriate for high schools to do that.
5:06
You really had the life experience at that point.
5:10
So I could live Mama Rose.
5:12
For sure.
5:13
But I just love experimenting with different things. So the orchestra world,
5:17
classical music industry in general, it's gotten a lot better,
5:21
but it's not the easiest place to be for someone who has a variety of interests.
5:27
The structure of the organization,
5:29
kind of the mission around preserving that 19th century
5:33
style ensemble. So kind of shortly after I got in the business,
5:38
I was thinking about where could this lead me that's maybe not with an
5:42
orchestra. Particularly,
5:43
I had been doing programming pretty much in every job I had held,
5:46
so whether I was orchestra manager, general manager,
5:49
or director of pops and special programming,
5:51
I always had a talent buyer component of my job.
5:55
And then I had a very specific job with the Detroit Symphony where I did all the
6:00
non-classical programming for the orchestra,
6:02
but I also programmed a lot of non orchestra presentations,
6:06
whether it be chamber music or comedy or global music.
6:10
So already expanding. Yeah.
6:12
Yeah. So by the time I got to Baltimore Symphony,
6:14
which was my last job in the field,
6:17
I had a lot of different responsibilities there,
6:19
which included a lot of the presentations at the Meyerhoff as well as
6:23
education, community engagement... By the time I got to that, I was like,
6:27
my next job will not be with an orchestra.
6:29
I really want to do more than just stay in this
6:34
genre. And really,
6:36
I think it wasn't until I made the switch to a performing arts center
6:39
organization that I'm like, oh, this is what I'm going to do now for my career.
6:43
Feeling more settled. Yeah, I think what you're saying rings so true.
6:46
It's funny, we were just talking to Clive Chang,
6:49
who at Young Arts is also someone who has a
6:54
multihyphenate background as an artist and also as a business person and what
6:59
you're expressing,
6:59
a love for composing or classical music,
7:04
but at the same time being drawn in by your Gypsies and your
7:09
Broadway loves. I think it's so interesting,
7:11
particularly to hear the two of you talk about how that tug was always in you
7:16
and you've used that as motivation to continue to move through the field and
7:20
maybe make choices that ultimately will expand everyone's experience,
7:24
whether they are at a symphony or at a performing arts center.
7:27
I do think we're beginning to see some of those silos start to slowly
7:32
expand or break themselves,
7:33
and I think it's because of the leadership that we're seeing right now that
7:38
really went through a system and a process that they were pushing on a little
7:42
bit.
7:43
But I do wish there was a little more flexibility for students to
7:47
explore a little more.
7:49
I might've gotten to this place a little sooner if I had an
7:54
opportunity to really figure out what are the things that are appealing to me
8:00
and what are even the options.
8:02
I think we know the conservatory model is really pretty challenging to
8:07
translate into a salaried with
8:11
benefits type position.
8:13
There are so many ways I actually think we do need more artists in
8:18
these administrative roles for that perspective,
8:21
who also have the skills of running a business and keeping
8:26
the arts sustainable, balancing the commercial and the artistic,
8:30
and if there's a way that academia can figure this out,
8:33
that would be awesome.
8:35
Did you have a plan for how you managed each transition
8:40
personally, how you adapted to the organization,
8:43
but also got to know each organization without losing the
8:48
perspective and experience that you were bringing into each new
8:52
company?
8:53
Yeah.
8:54
I think my thought process in each transition was always something that was
8:59
going to take me to a kind of a destination job,
9:03
and each of those roles,
9:06
I still use a lot of the knowledge and skills that I
9:11
learned, conflict resolution, negotiations...
9:16
Each one of those jobs really did inform experience that I knew I was going
9:21
to need for the destination, which for me,
9:24
the Pittsburgh Cultural Trust really is the destination job.
9:27
And is a homecoming for you as well.
9:30
Oh, it totally is.
9:30
I never in a million years would've expected that I would be the CEO
9:35
of this organization 30 years later.
9:37
That just would never have even crossed my mind.
9:40
Or the CEO of any organization for that matter.
9:42
It is an incredible story,
9:44
and there's a little bit of kismet in this pairing of leadership and institution
9:48
that I think is powerful in and of itself.
9:51
I like to think that too. But each transition,
9:56
it's really easy to get into, 'When I was in Detroit,
10:00
we did it this way.' 'When I was in Baltimore,
10:03
we did it this way.' And because I've been in so many places,
10:06
what I tend to say now is,
10:07
this is a really good practice that I've experienced in other places,
10:11
while still -- when in Rome,
10:13
you've kind of got to adapt to what's different about Pittsburgh that you
10:17
don't have in a Detroit or an Omaha or a Denver or Milwaukee.
10:22
You're hired because you come with these diverse experiences and this
10:27
knowledge,
10:28
but it's also you got to balance not throwing out the baby with the bath water,
10:32
as they say,
10:33
and really kind of understanding the culture and the way things
10:37
happen when you enter those new organizations.
10:41
I mean, that all makes complete sense. I guess I want to talk about Pittsburgh,
10:45
but before I do this, I am curious,
10:47
when you entered your first role as CEO,
10:51
what kind of mental shift did you have to make
10:56
moving into that space as a leader? Again,
10:59
bringing with you all of this amazing experience,
11:02
but I have to imagine that's quite a shift to make in the moment,
11:07
and then the responsibility of it. Of course, someone as thoughtful as you are,
11:12
I would just be so curious about how you approached that the first time.
11:16
For me,
11:17
there was a moment probably about 15 years into my career
11:22
where I was like, if I were in charge,
11:26
I'd probably do it a little bit differently or I had these thoughts about how it
11:31
could happen, and when that moment came, I really knew,
11:35
I think it's time for me to take this leap.
11:37
I think this is what I'm meant to be doing,
11:41
to be in the number one seat and drive the
11:45
strategy for an organization and represent the organization
11:51
in the way that I would want,
11:52
as someone who's been often in the number two or in the senior
11:57
leadership team role.
11:58
I think the biggest thing I learned is the power of my
12:02
words in this role versus pretty
12:07
much every other job I had that wasn't executive director or CEO.
12:12
Sometimes I'm just thinking out loud, but when I'm thinking out loud,
12:16
someone's like, 'Kendra told me to do that thing.' I'm like, no, no, no,
12:18
I didn't tell you to do that thing.
12:20
Or 'Kendra's going to be mad if this doesn't happen.' I'm like, no, no, no.
12:23
Kendra's not mad. Kendra's just thinking, Kendra's just expressing a thing,
12:28
but Kendra can't just express the thing.
12:31
Completely, because your word is law at a certain point.
12:35
Yes, Kendra is not Kendra, Kendra is the CEO.
12:38
I still struggle with that a little bit.
12:41
I'm much more conscientious about it now. I even catch myself saying,
12:45
I'm not saying to do this. I'm not saying you should do this.
12:47
I'm just kind of thinking. Or, this is just an idea.
12:51
It might not work for this situation.
12:53
Maybe you want to go in a different direction.
12:55
I feel like that's the biggest lesson in that shift,
12:59
that you are not just,
13:00
you are kind of a symbol both internally and
13:05
externally.
13:06
This role is a more civic role than I've seen my peers have.
13:11
I feel sometimes like an unelected public official,
13:14
not only with the work that we do in the cultural district and
13:19
using arts and culture as an economic driver,
13:21
as an activator of downtown activity,
13:24
as a major real estate and landowner... When you say things,
13:29
you're representing something that's bigger than just an arts organization.
13:32
I literally just had this conversation with the staff. It's like,
13:36
I was you at one point, and I don't even disagree with what you're -- like,
13:40
I feel you, but I have a larger obligation now and
13:46
there's a lot more accountability. My words have a lot more accountability.
13:51
I mean, the tying of words and accountability is really,
13:55
I'd say for anyone who's taking on a managerial or leadership role for the first
13:59
time that I think you start to have a sense of that. But as you said,
14:04
in a role like yours, not just internally for the organization,
14:07
but externally for the city, it's quite a substantial shift.
14:13
In case folks aren't as familiar with the Pittsburgh Cultural Trust,
14:17
would you just give a little primer for listeners on all that it encompasses,
14:22
because I'm not sure everyone knows the totality of the remit.
14:26
Absolutely. So by definition,
14:31
we define ourselves as a performing arts center organization.
14:34
So we benchmark against Cleveland Playhouse Square,
14:38
New Jersey Performing Arts Center,
14:40
Tennessee Performing Arts Center in Nashville...
14:43
So we are in essence that.
14:47
That's probably our primary role, an arts presenter.
14:50
We're a steward of a number of performing arts venues in a
14:55
14 block cultural district,
14:57
which includes seven theaters and a number of other smaller
15:01
spaces. So we present Broadway,
15:04
we present more artistic mission-driven programs like contemporary
15:09
dance, jazz, family programming,
15:12
and then like many other performing arts center,
15:14
we have one night commercial contemporary acts.
15:19
Everything from Bob Dylan to Nikki Glaser to Paw
15:23
Patrol.
15:24
The big three, as they say.
15:27
Yeah, right.
15:29
And then Broadway is our biggest presenting arm.
15:34
We have a little over 15,000 subscribers for Broadway, so it
15:40
is a big driver of our budget.
15:44
Like other performing arts centers,
15:46
we're about 80% earned revenue to 20% contributed.
15:50
But the thing that makes us a little different is we oversee more of a district
15:55
than a center where all the theaters are housed in one space.
15:59
The other thing is,
15:59
we have a fairly substantial visual arts arm that was kind of early
16:04
in our history with public art.
16:08
We have three galleries within the district that we program regularly.
16:12
We're making a big investment in public art now,
16:15
and we'll talk about why in a second.
16:18
And we also own a lot of real estate.
16:21
So in addition to those seven theaters,
16:24
we have essentially about 28 parcels of land,
16:27
about 1.2 million square feet of real estate.
16:29
That includes everything from a 2,900 seat theater to a 12
16:34
story office building to a 46,000 square foot Bali Total Fitness
16:38
gym that sits in the middle of the district.
16:42
And did you imagine as you were a leader of a performing arts
16:47
center for the first time and throughout your career,
16:48
working with all these wonderful artists, like,
16:50
and then in my next role I really want to be a real estate manager?
16:57
I definitely didn't. And to kind of go back to the history of the district,
17:01
so we started in 1984 really with a goal of turning
17:06
a red light district -- this was all 42nd street in 1984.
17:10
It was like triple X movie theaters, porn shops, massage parlors,
17:14
all kinds of nefarious and sundry things.
17:18
And the late Jack Heinz,
17:21
he had a vision for really cleaning up downtown and using the arts as kind of a
17:26
catalyst for growth,
17:28
and also to make it just a better place for Pittsburgh.
17:32
He hired the founding CEO and they started buying up property.
17:36
So it was a big part of our initial mission.
17:39
So the trust was founded at a time when the city was going
17:44
through a renaissance,
17:46
and here we are 41 years later and downtown revitalization in
17:51
2025 is really another renaissance for Pittsburgh.
17:57
So speak a little more about that because I know the impact of COVID hit
18:00
Pittsburgh hard.
18:02
Yeah, yeah. So 2020,
18:06
we all had that awful thing.
18:08
Pittsburgh was impacted in a very different way than a lot of cities.
18:13
Pittsburgh had an outsized amount of office space in downtown.
18:17
It's like 20th in the nation for largest cities,
18:21
but it was fifth in the nation for the percentage of square footage of the
18:25
downtown that was office space.
18:28
So when the pandemic hit and we all changed how we worked,
18:33
it really significantly impacted activation in downtown Pittsburgh
18:38
because we had so much office space.
18:41
So even with employees now,
18:44
a lot of the major employers in downtown have brought their employees back.
18:48
A lot of companies just didn't bring anybody back.
18:51
There was really a drive from Pittsburgh
18:56
civic leaders -- both the corporate community, foundation community,
18:59
and elected officials --
19:01
to how do we re-envision what downtown looks like for Pittsburgh?
19:05
Okay. And so we're here talking about Arts Landing.
19:08
So can you tell us a little bit about the project and how you're once again
19:13
using the arts as a catalyst for growth in this new Renaissance moment for
19:17
Pittsburgh?
19:18
So Arts Landing is a four and a half acre civic space.
19:22
There was a drive by this group of leaders under this organization called the
19:27
Allegheny Conference,
19:28
which is essentially kind of like a chamber of commerce in most cities,
19:31
but more than that,
19:32
it's more of like regional civic leaders -- of,
19:37
how do we envision downtown? They hired Field Operations,
19:41
who's a renowned landscape architect famous for, in recent time,
19:46
the Highline, and they also designed the Seattle Waterfront, which was a huge,
19:51
huge project. They've done Fisherman's Wharf,
19:52
they've done a number of other public space projects around the country.
19:56
So they hired them to create an aspirational view of Pittsburgh.
20:00
What could Pittsburgh look like?
20:02
And when they came and did their tour of the city and they saw our four and a
20:06
half acre parking lots right on the river, they're like, God,
20:09
this is just screaming to be a green space. You might be able to develop this as
20:13
a mixed use property at some point,
20:15
but right now that's not going to happen for a number of reasons. Cost,
20:18
inflation, labor costs, price of materials,
20:22
now potentially tariffs...
20:24
But what you could do is have this in-the-meantime space that is adding
20:29
green space that's solving problems for you around your own programming.
20:34
We run an arts festival in Pittsburgh that serves --
20:38
about a hundred thousand people come over 10 days.
20:41
So we were basically nomadic with this festival after the pandemic,
20:45
like putting it in the middle of streets and downtown,
20:48
and it just didn't make for a great concert experience.
20:50
So we had a need too from an arts and culture perspective.
20:54
And all of these things kind of came together with a sense of urgency around
20:59
the possibility that Pittsburgh was going to get the NFL draft in 2026.
21:04
So this was what was driving this.
21:06
It's like we have an opportunity to use this marquee
21:11
event that draws several hundred thousand people to cities.
21:15
That's kind of a once in a blue moon thing where we can really,
21:19
as we say in Pittsburgh, red up. That's a term meaning clean up, fix up.
21:24
We have an opportunity to red up Pittsburgh before this kind of
21:28
milestone event, and everybody just kind of came together.
21:32
The governor came in and said, I'm going to do a major investment,
21:36
the state of Pennsylvania,
21:37
Governor Shapiro's $600 million revitalization plan,
21:42
which included 125 million in actual cash
21:47
to do projects like Arts Landing.
21:50
You have the location, you get the funding.
21:53
I'm going to make you talk a little bit about the timeline because when you
21:56
first told me, my eyes popped bigger than they have in a long time.
22:01
So let's see, the conference, the Allegheny Conference,
22:03
this organization I told you about, they announced the plan
22:08
June 5th, 2024. The day after,
22:12
the Cultural Trust met with Field Operations who had done this aspirational
22:17
design and said,
22:18
we need from schematic to ribbon cutting in 20 months. Can we do that?
22:25
I mean, come on.
22:27
If this isn't the case study for all arts and culture organizations to just look
22:32
at how you get the investment, get the stakeholders at the table, have a goal,
22:37
and go get it.
22:38
I have to tell you, I've never seen anything like it myself.
22:41
By April of 25,
22:44
we did the groundbreaking and we were on such a tight
22:48
schedule. The lease with the Goodyear building was up,
22:54
and so we're doing the groundbreaking,
22:56
I think it was April 25th or 24th,
22:59
and literally they're like demolishing the Goodyear
23:04
behind us and I'm like,
23:06
we can only stop for 30 minutes just to do this groundbreaking.
23:11
Get the shovels, get the photo, get the dirt, let's go. Let's go. You hear
23:18
beep beep beep right up until the microphone goes hot. And then, okay,
23:21
everybody hold on. People are waiting there in the demolition truck.
23:27
I mean, this is the performing arts reality show of our dreams. Okay.
23:31
So tell us a little bit about the design and features of Arts Landing.
23:36
So the design will have a one acre lawn,
23:39
a permanent stage and stage canopy,
23:42
so more of a piece of civic furniture than a band shell.
23:46
It will also have a little recreation zone with three pickleball courts and
23:51
a small walking track.
23:53
It will have a 30,000 square foot hardscape plaza with seating
23:58
and cafe tables and chairs. It will have downtown's first ever playground.
24:02
So downtown does not have a playground.
24:05
That's one of the things we had heard as we were putting the design together
24:08
that there was no public playground for families. Public restrooms, of course,
24:12
was another big thing we heard.
24:13
And then we have a whole children's play area that's a little bit more artistic.
24:19
As well as the first phase of rotating public art.
24:23
And we will be cutting those ribbons a week before the NFL draft
24:29
in April of 2026.
24:31
Listen, you're less than a year out. I mean,
24:33
if that doesn't prove what having a clear goal in mind can do for a
24:38
project,
24:39
even when all the right intentionality might've been there to begin with,
24:42
it's so impressive. Okay, so you get to the ribbon cutting. A week later,
24:47
you have the draft.
24:49
Then obviously the arts festival will continue using that space.
24:53
How else do you envision the space being used throughout the year and over many,
24:58
many years to come?
24:59
So what we've heard from other spaces that operate like this around the country
25:03
is that programming doesn't just mean events.
25:06
It means activations on the site.
25:09
So a lot of times spaces like this will program the space 300 days a
25:14
year,
25:14
but that might be like a food truck pops up or there's a pop-up hot cocoa
25:19
station in the winter, or there's a holiday light display.
25:23
We certainly plan on a lot of performing arts programming in
25:27
this space, both with existing partners --
25:30
some of the programming we already do indoors that we've always wanted an
25:33
outdoor home for in the nice weather months.
25:37
But visual arts is going to have a big role in this space too. I mean,
25:40
public art is such a great way to drive people to a space
25:45
without a timed event,
25:46
and really the goal of Arts Landing is to extend people's time in downtown.
25:51
So you come to Arts Landing before or after,
25:54
or you come to Arts Landing just to hang out.
25:56
It doesn't have to be for a performance.
25:57
It doesn't have to be for a specific thing.
26:00
And I think that's the thing that performing arts centers,
26:03
we're great at timed events.
26:05
We have the space for it and it's kind of part of our DNA,
26:10
but if you're trying to activate a city that's lost
26:15
population through office occupancy,
26:18
like getting people to stay in downtown longer or extend time in downtown,
26:22
you're going to need things that are not timed events.
26:24
You're going to need hangout space. You're going to need space for play,
26:27
for recreation,
26:29
for just looking at a piece of art or walking through a public art
26:34
park.
26:35
Yeah,
26:36
I think you're hitting the nail on the head there because as we've talked about
26:39
this, it's kind of how cultural districts can continue to drive
26:44
transformation, some of which because of COVID is still recovery transformation,
26:48
but some of which is really looking ahead.
26:50
How do you think other folks around the country can take lessons learned from
26:55
the work that you've been doing and from what you're hoping to see in the future
27:00
locally?
27:01
What impact might we be able to take away from that on a more national scale?
27:06
Well,
27:07
we have benefited from learning from a lot of other spaces that are
27:11
already doing this super, super well. And again,
27:14
what we've learned is keeping it clean, safe, and activated.
27:19
It just gives you more opportunity to engage community.
27:23
And as performing arts centers, I guess what we can learn about --
27:26
how can we activate the property around the performing arts centers to
27:31
create this extension of engagement in our
27:35
arts districts or activation around our own theaters.
27:40
Yeah,
27:41
it feels like there's this moment happening and I think as folks are figuring
27:45
out their continuously evolving relationship with their phones and with their
27:50
digital entertainment,
27:51
I also think we're approaching this moment of community and the act of
27:55
gathering and the act of being together still in its resurgence era
28:00
from a time where all of us were very much staying away from
28:05
large crowds.
28:06
And I think projects like Arts Landing and some of the great colleagues that you
28:10
mentioned,
28:12
I think we're all in a really interesting moment to see what's happening and how
28:15
is that going to impact the value proposition and the brand positioning of
28:20
the arts and culture and humanities work in America.
28:24
Because as institutions can take on that mantle to be of service to the
28:29
community in greater or different ways,
28:32
we can really start to see how the conversation might shift from the more
28:37
traditional dialogues or debates that we've seen in years past.
28:41
I think it's absolutely fascinating and a great time to be looking at it.
28:46
And necessary for our sustainability.
28:49
Absolutely. I mean,
28:51
that's tied together so closely when we talk about the future of the field.
28:56
What I was going to say is as you're describing this,
28:59
it's a lot of stakeholder management.
29:02
It is a lot of diverse stakeholders both within the community and the
29:06
artists and the administration of a typical performing arts center.
29:10
But as you alluded to a little bit earlier, also,
29:14
all that comes with the civic governance,
29:17
the economics of the work you're doing.
29:19
How do you manage your day as you are both
29:24
stewarding and leading this incredible arts organization,
29:28
but also immersed in this transformation work and in this
29:33
real construction, literally,
29:36
work that requires so much input and collaboration.
29:41
When I talk to people about this role, not just the cultural trust,
29:44
but the CEO role, it is... work-life balance,
29:50
we all need it. There's a lot of discussion these days about finding rest,
29:55
and that's still I think a controversial thing for someone in this kind of role.
30:00
Rest is like... you're never really off. You're never really, you are always on.
30:05
Let's put it that the job clock is always ticking,
30:08
but I am trying to figure out how to make sure I don't burn out.
30:13
I was going to ask because even just knowing a little bit of who you
30:18
are and your history, you have a mentality of let's go, let's get the job done,
30:23
let's keep moving,
30:24
and when a job is this demanding of not just your time or your brain,
30:29
but also I would imagine there's quite a bit of emotional labor that you're
30:32
doing on any given day with so many different people...
30:36
Very much so.
30:37
Really I kind of have all the toolbox of,
30:41
I talk to a therapist, I have my exercise time,
30:46
I have quality time with my husband, I have a cat, I love to read.
30:51
So I really kind of make sure I can do those things
30:56
to balance my mental health, my physical health.
31:00
But I will say, this is a hard job.
31:03
And yes, try to take care of yourself,
31:07
but also recognize the expectation of
31:12
accountability and responsibility is great,
31:14
and if you need a lot of downtime,
31:19
this is probably not going to be a good role for you.
31:22
And I also think this is why -- I've been thinking a lot about,
31:26
what is the longevity in these kinds of roles?
31:29
What is a good runway of time?
31:32
We need leaders in these roles for a long time to make change and progress and
31:36
change takes a long time, particularly
31:40
at a part of the organization's evolution like where the cultural trust is right
31:44
now. I don't know if I should stay in this job for 20 years.
31:48
I definitely want to stay until I retire,
31:50
which is still a ways off,
31:54
but I think it is good for...
31:57
both for leadership and for the organization to kind of
32:00
have some fresh thinking. And when you feel like you can't do that anymore,
32:04
then you have to really kind of self-regulate to go, you know what?
32:07
Maybe I'm not, this isn't the right gig for me. I do feel like,
32:11
what is the right tenure length to ensure that you stay
32:16
fresh and that you're really thinking in new ways?
32:20
We just had an all staff meeting today and our organization
32:25
is equally divided in quarters between Gen Z, Millennial, Gen X,
32:30
Boomer. But man, I learned a lot from those Gen Zs. I got to say,
32:34
I think a lot of the things that they bring to the workforce around self-care
32:38
and avoiding burnout and work-life balance are really good.
32:42
I think they've actually advanced the workforce in a lot of ways.
32:46
And then how do we balance that with, we have a really hard job to do.
32:50
Well,
32:50
and I'm so glad that you said this because something that I've struggled with
32:54
when I talk to folks who are... career journey questions, that type of thing,
32:58
it is this --
32:58
I believe in what you are saying and
33:03
particularly what younger generations are looking for in terms of boundaries,
33:06
in terms of how one centers themself in an experience
33:11
versus always putting the job first.
33:13
But the other truth that you're alluding to is sometimes that means that
33:18
you can't get to the place you want to be as quickly as
33:23
possible if you are also holding firm to some of the
33:27
work-life boundaries that are there and you're going to have to make sacrifices
33:31
and choices along the way, and as long as you are making the choice,
33:36
great, then that is the choice that you are making. And so for jobs,
33:40
the last job that I had,
33:41
I was very happy for that job to be very centered in my life and lifestyle.
33:46
It brought me a lot of joy regardless of the hours. But that's not for everyone.
33:50
And that's okay.
33:51
That is exactly it. And I think people think, oh, well,
33:55
I've been a director for a certain period of time,
33:57
so now I need to be vice president. And I've been a vice president for,
33:59
so maybe I should run a place.
34:01
It's like the difference between running a place and
34:06
being in even a senior staff role,
34:10
it's very different.
34:12
My day-to-day is really the business of the arts,
34:15
making sure there's sustainability financially, raising money,
34:20
interacting with all our diverse constituents,
34:22
from elected officials to corporate leaders to real estate
34:27
developers to all kinds of officials.
34:30
It's the farthest away I've ever been from touching the art,
34:34
but it's in some ways the most meaningful work I've done in my career.
34:39
I feel like I've jokingly said to people,
34:44
my legacy -- when they say, what do you want your legacy to be? And I'm like,
34:47
I want my future self or my successor to go,
34:52
'She really made good decisions to get us to this point.' I don't need my name
34:56
on a building or anything like that.
34:59
You want the work to be good.
35:00
Yes, I want someone to go, God,
35:04
thank goodness they did this thing. I'm really glad she did this thing.
35:07
I say that about my predecessor. I told him directly, I'm like,
35:12
this one thing you did,
35:14
it made such an important impact on the organization.
35:18
But I love that clarity,
35:19
that sense of clarity of goal of purpose as we
35:24
slowly start to come to a close.
35:27
What right now is giving you hope for arts and culture in a time
35:32
where there are a lot more questions than answers about our
35:37
country? Specifically and the role of arts, culture,
35:40
and humanities in everyday society.
35:43
Man, every time I go to a show --
35:45
I just went to a show off Broadway last weekend,
35:50
a little hundred seat space in Greenwich Village.
35:54
Everything from that to the performances we're doing in Pittsburgh,
35:59
whether it be the cultural trust or frankly any of my arts colleagues that are
36:03
successfully bringing audiences back, people want this.
36:07
This is not going away.
36:10
Someone asked me today in our staff meeting about,
36:13
are we worried about AI or some of these technologies replacing
36:18
humans in our work? And I'm like,
36:20
I feel like there's a place for growing efficiency through these
36:24
technologies, but it will not replace what is happening on the stages.
36:29
I don't even think it's going to replace the fixed seat theater experience.
36:34
There's still something that's just so absolutely extraordinary. People,
36:39
they just want it. They crave it. They want to keep coming back. I mean,
36:43
we have people coming to shows they've seen multiple times before because they
36:47
like how it made them feel.
36:49
I have no fear that that desire is going to go away,
36:54
but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be
36:59
vigilant about ensuring we run sustainable business,
37:03
that we also adapt to the taste and changing
37:08
needs of our audiences. We have to do that too.
37:13
But I do feel very positive about the future of our industry.
37:18
I love to hear that. I couldn't agree more. Alright,
37:22
we are at that moment for a couple quick fire culture questions.
37:26
The first of which, what is one piece of culture, be it a song,
37:31
a show, a book, a TikTok video,
37:33
one piece of culture that you are currently obsessed with?
37:37
I'm going to go with the thing that I most recently saw...
37:40
Okay, great.
37:41
...That I just was delighted by.
37:43
And it was that show that I was telling you about, the Off Broadway,
37:46
it's called Ta-Da. One man show by Josh Sharp,
37:50
directed by Sam Pinkleton,
37:52
who famously just won the Tony for directing Oh, Mary!
37:56
It's off-Broadway in the Village,
37:59
and it's him storytelling a little bit. It's a little standup comedy,
38:04
but he uses 2000 PowerPoint slides.
38:07
It is absolutely hilarious. It is brilliant.
38:11
I don't know if we can transfer outside of that kind of setting because it is --
38:15
Or if you'd want it to even, right?
38:17
Right. Exactly. But God, I want more people to see it,
38:20
so I've been telling everybody I know, go see that show!
38:23
I have a lifelong aversion to overwrought PowerPoint presentations,
38:27
so maybe this will be the way to kind of break me out of that.
38:31
Again, a little recency bias.
38:33
I love it. Struck by inspiration. That's what counts.
38:37
If you could go back in time either to a show you were able to see and you want
38:42
to see it again or to a concert or experience that you were not around for,
38:47
what is the one show that you would time travel? It could be an exhibit, a show,
38:52
a concert.
38:53
So I know exactly this one, and it's long enough ago.
38:58
It was probably 10 years ago.
39:01
It was a production of John Adams' opera,
39:05
A Flowering Tree, that was produced by Omaha Opera.
39:08
It was so incredibly moving and powerful,
39:12
and just the stagecraft of it was also really, really interesting.
39:16
I love John Adams' music.
39:18
It's like that dish that's served at a restaurant that you're like, God,
39:22
I wish I got the recipe for that. That's the way I feel about the production.
39:27
That's very special.
39:28
Okay.
39:29
What is one free resource that you wish more people knew about or that you think
39:33
everyone should be checking out?
39:35
Controversial one. This is going to be controversial, Monica.
39:37
Hot takes. Let's do a hot take!
39:39
ChatGPT, baby. Okay, listen,
39:43
if I take three pages of notes and say, ChatGPT or Copilot,
39:48
turn this into a one page outline that summarizes --
39:54
and then it's just like magic. Why did I not start using this sooner? I mean,
39:58
if this could free up time for us to use our brains
40:04
to do the creative stuff,
40:06
I'm all for it and we are using it more in our workplace here,
40:10
particularly for that kind of summarizing,
40:15
encapsulating an idea...
40:19
We have kind of strict rules around the content generation that we can't use it
40:23
directly.
40:25
You know, everything --
40:25
there has to be the human touch at the beginning and the human touch at the end.
40:28
That's right.
40:29
But there is an efficiency,
40:31
particularly for folks who have days that are well beyond their
40:35
eight to 10 hours already.
40:37
Absolutely.
40:37
What a wonderful tool.
40:40
The next episode will be talking to Jen Taylor,
40:44
who has a lot of great advice on how folks can get
40:48
into using these tools for the first time,
40:50
and also how they can do it in a very thoughtful way that helps balance some of
40:54
those concerns that you're alluding to in the space.
40:56
I'll be tuning in.
40:58
Great! Couldn't plan that promo better. And then we are at time.
41:02
So the last question I have for you is your CI to Eye moment.
41:07
If you could broadcast one message to executive directors, leadership teams,
41:12
staffs, and boards of thousands of arts and culture organizations,
41:17
what would that message be?
41:19
Also a little more of a pragmatic message,
41:22
but it's something that's been top of mind for me, and that's
41:26
nonprofit is a tax status. It is not a business model,
41:30
and we really need to start thinking about these organizations really as
41:35
businesses and how we're going to keep them sustainable so we can do the mission
41:39
aligned programming and do the work that doesn't just cover itself with ticket
41:43
sales. And that's something I've been really thinking about here to protect the
41:48
investment that has been made in the cultural district and cultural trust
41:52
specifically. We really kind of have to have that mindset --
41:56
particularly as an organization like many performing arts center organizations
41:58
that are 80% on earned revenue --
42:02
to figure out how to balance the business.
42:06
So that's my support to the
42:10
industry. I know a lot of people are thinking this way already.
42:14
I'm going to validate that.
42:15
Validation received. Kendra, thank you so much for your time.
42:20
I love hearing you talk about your story.
42:22
I love hearing about the work that is happening in Pittsburgh,
42:25
and I cannot wait until that ribbon cutting ceremony.
42:27
Listen,
42:28
thank you so much and I'm honored to be asked to do this and always love
42:33
chatting with you too.
42:43
Thank you for listening to CI to Eye with Monica Holt.
42:47
If you enjoyed today's conversation,
42:48
please take a moment to rate us or leave a review.
42:51
A nice comment goes a long way in helping other people discover the show and
42:55
hear from leaders in the arts and beyond. If you haven't already,
42:59
please click the subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts.
43:02
We've got some pretty incredible episodes coming your way and I wouldn't want
43:05
you to miss them.
43:06
This episode was edited and produced by Karen McConarty and co-written by
43:11
Karen McConarty and myself, Monica Holt.
43:14
Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are our incredible designers and video editors.
43:19
Our music is by whoisuzo.
43:22
Don't forget to follow CI on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube,
43:26
and TikTok for regular content to help you market smarter.
43:31
You can also sign up for CI's newsletter at capacityinteractive.com and you'll
43:36
never miss an update.
43:37
And you can always reach out to let us know who you'd like to hear next from on
43:41
CI to Eye.