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Just Transition to a Decarbonised Economy for South Africa (JUST SA): Eastern Cape Edition prt.2 · TIPS Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Trade Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast, TIPS Talk.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is a show where we delve into the fascinating world of economics and its impact on global development.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Elise Hutting, and today we are asking why is it important for local and provincial government officials in the Eastern Cape Province to understand the impacts of climate change and the imperative to decarbonize our economy as well as make that transition just.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: We are finding ourselves in Port Elizabeth today.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: We see how many officials can turn policy into action.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have a very special guest, Miss Nurnez from Marcher, local municipality.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And she's going to introduce herself and tell us a little bit about her role and where we can find this very unique municipality where it's located in the Eastern Cape.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for inviting me to this interview.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Nunes, and my surname is Mulungu.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working as director of community services in the Mbashe local municipality.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: My main responsibility is to ensure a healthy and safe environment within the municipal jurisdiction.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that involves waste management, safety and security, and as well as environmental management, the entire environmental management.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy that I am here because Bashe Municipality is a very small rural municipality in the eastern side of the Eastern Cape, along the N2 route from Cape Town to Deban, in the middle of the N2 route, and it is characterized by high poverty levels, unemployment, and compromised literacy levels.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a deep rural municipality where people survive on subsistence farming and other traditional ways of livelihood.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Mpache municipality is in the Amatole region.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the main thing is that Mpache is made up of two small towns, which are E.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Duka, E.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Willow, and E.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Elliott Dale.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: All these three towns are very small towns that cannot afford to generate a reasonable amount of its own finances.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's highly dependent on government grants to survive.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And as such, there isn't much money that we're getting from our ratepayers to afford our waste management needs.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And as such, we find ourselves, after having reviewed our situation, that we're compelled to find cheaper ways of controlling waste and making it affordable because when we grant dependent, we don't get all what we need.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And also we converted into the idea of diverting waste away from our landfills for a good cause and for compliance as well, but as well as making sure that those people that do not have any means to survive are able to use waste as a resource.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Then in the past three consecutive years, we have managed to convince our council that let's look at alternative modern ways of controlling waste.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: We started creating votes from our budget, diverting budgets that were used for the traditional ways of waste control to making sure that we're funding waste initiatives.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: One glaring factor was the fact that there is a tendency that has just emerged.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what was the source of that, but we have seen that happening and is still happening, whereby rural women from the deep rural areas decided on their own to collect scrap metals from the dongas, from the rivers, and from everywhere along our jurisdiction and pack it along the end to taking it to Deblin.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Voluntarily, nobody forced them to do that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: They taking that risk, they survived cold nights, thugs and everything, waiting for a lift, a track that would have space to take them.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: We've had sad stories of what happened to them.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some raped, some robbed, and all these things.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we said, because we also have those people that are scavenging, that are ways picking in our own damn site, and we'll survive with that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we had to sit and identify who are we paying?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: If we employ people out there from the township, smart people maybe, and say you employ it as a waste speaker.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas there is somebody sitting somewhere collecting and picking ways to voluntarily.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we said as a municipality, let's start uplifting those people, recognizing them, and giving them the confidence that we can see you and we appreciate what we are doing.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: We have started in this financial year, 24-25 financial year.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: We decided on a project whereby we employed eight people per word.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Our municipality has got 32 words.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So out of the 32 words, on our EPWP program, we managed to employ eight people per word and say, What counselor identifies whoever you see collecting waste, living out of waste, and bring the person on board.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we had an agreement with the person that you don't stop selling because you are employed, but we're giving a stipend so that you can survive.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what we did, we said we're giving you a two-day stipend and you work eight days a month, and then the rest of the days you do your own business.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: You work for your own quantities.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But the saddest part of that is that all what is being collected, bulk of the volumes collected is wasted on transporting that waste from point A to point B.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: For example, our area is along the Indian Ocean.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a reasonable share of the Indian Ocean in our municipality, bordering from Coffee Bay on the KSD side to Butterworth on the Butterworth side.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So both Iwillow Vale and Elodale have got a reasonable share of the coastal area.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: The people on the coastal side are the main people that are collecting scrap metals and whatever, and they will transport it from wherever down there to the end to route towards Debian or East London.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then they pay all the way.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we're saying ultimately you will find that the person isn't getting anything, but they continue because of the drive and the passion and the commitment that they have, which needs to be uplifted and appreciated.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: On the third of this month, we're having a broader forum whereby all the participants and the funders, because some of the people that have shown interest in our project were the producer responsibility organizations.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're inviting everyone, Salga and everyone else, into our big council chamber, whereby we'll be evaluating the project and seeing what worked, what didn't work.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: But what is glaring right now is the fact that Eastern Cape waste acres or waste recyclers need more processing, processed waste so that it can be portable, it can be cheaper to transport it.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yesterday, one thing I got first was that kind of confidence that we are on the right track.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Looking at the presentations, at the lessons learned, and at the fact that when we're looking at the issue of transition, we could identify ourselves as one of the people that are part of the transition.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the lessons learned here and probably continuous interactions with TIPs would be used to enhance our project.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing I would say to my mayor in a nutshell would be that let's keep going.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: We are on the right track, and everyone else is experiencing the problems we are experiencing.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: But we're better off because we have started already and we're working on something.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very happy to be part of this interaction, this training, particularly the first day, because it was very relevant for us, the people that are working down there, the grassroots people.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I will take it further home and share with the municipal manager and everyone else.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I agreed more with the issue of education and awareness, because that's one great thing that we've managed to do.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: We have managed to motivate people, create awareness.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you are at a mall or you're attending a funeral, you will meet somebody saying, I've got bottles waiting, I've got plastic waiting.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: When can you help transport my load?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And people know that their waste is their money.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I really appreciate you giving us a little bit of a taste of your municipality and your challenges.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm also very excited about the fact that you're seeing waste as the new gold.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's an opportunity, but also strategically, you're identifying the gaps within your logistics and what you can do further to enhance the job creation around the waste downstreams and upstreams.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very exciting.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we wish you all of the best.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we also look forward to walk through this journey with you and your municipality.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: We offer you a very warm welcome to continue engaging in the community of practice.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: We want to make the circle bigger.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Invite your municipal manager and everybody in your teams that would like to be part of this journey, and we look forward to talking next time.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: All of the best.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the environmental services manager there.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's a municipality that is also dependent on subsistence farming for survival.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Our people are still on the indigenous farming practices.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think the training has opened my eyes a lot because it encourages how we can better have infrastructure that is resilient.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: We've also had our own strides in terms of trying to ensure the green economy as well in the municipality because, as I said, we are reliant on subsistence farming, and the municipality is in the process of constructing an agricultural college which is going to focus on growing and processing cannabis for medicinal purposes.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we pride ourselves with that.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: We also have our famous Gomo Forest where we house the endangered species of the Cape Parrot.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: We only have a few in the province.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think the last time they did the counting, it was 21 that are housed in that forest.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we also use that forest for activities like hiking, all those recreational activities that make you feel like you're in another world when you're in Abangkulu.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of the green economy, we've tried to make strides as well.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: We recently I joined the municipality in 2023 and we've been getting compliments.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: The last one we got was from the MEC of Didiat that at least in rural municipalities we have improved in terms of having a clean and a green town.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that encourages us because we started with introducing a system of waste separation, ensuring that we educate the households that are in the urban area and in the rural area, that the food waste that you think it's useless, you can use it for giving it to your animals, for feeding animals, you can also use it for composting and trying to grow new food or vegetables and other plants from it.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: We also ensure as the environmental services unit that we encourage our peers, especially the engineers, that whatever building or infrastructure is going to be done, it must be energy efficient.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: We need them to comply with our standards on that one.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the water harvesting, all our buildings have solar grid on them, and they have water harvesting.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: The Just SA session, as I've alluded, is very informative because it has better equipped me, and I will take that information and apply it on my day-to-day operations on how best we can build resilient infrastructure.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the end of the day, if we do not give this green economy concept time and application and attention it deserves, it comes back to the generations that will come after us because climate change issues they emanate from not taking care of the environment today.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And also the point that was raised there that maybe we need to encapsulate the green economic concept on the curriculum of the little children who are growing up so that they grow up knowing what to do and what not to do to ensure that other generations that also come after them are well taken care of.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's as simple as that.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: For the province, I think they need to start making plans and availing budget for ensuring that concepts, okay, initiatives like recycling are also compulsory.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's about it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's really great to have this time with you today and to get a little insight on your very tiny municipality.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh for us, it's important to hear your voice because no one needs to be left behind.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: No one must be left.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: All the small municipalities matter, and it's a beautiful picture that you painted for us of your mountain and the forest and your indigenous species, and the way that you're applying green economy principles already in terms of your green building, your water harvesting, and also renewable energy.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that can be just a prosperous future for you and thinking already of our next generations.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, and we wish you all of the best for taking this information back to your municipality and all the challenges that lie ahead with Just Transition.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: May you prosper.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have another interesting guest here with us in the Eastern Cape, Mr.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Makula, and I'm gonna ask him to introduce himself.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, uh Elise, and also to the team from Just SA.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Paulila Makaula from the Eastern Cape, and it's been my pleasure to be part of this workshop on just transition.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: I have played a very supportive role in terms of stakeholder management, understanding business development in the Eastern Cape, and having worked with various municipalities just to understand significant projects, megaprojects, and projects within the renewable space as part of my role.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And in this workshop in particular, I have had an interesting session to learn about just transition and its significance to the green economy, and mainly how this transition has to be managed to ensure that it's just and it's a transition that is inclusive and then ensures that it integrates and it takes everyone on board.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Some of these lessons, as it may be seen, that some of the initiatives are very long-term in nature.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: And as well, if you look at how this will be implemented, some of the projects might even be beyond our generation.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: But the importance of making that transition is well managed, there's awareness, and also there's a collaborative approach to co-create solutions and to make sure that there's a blueprint in terms of how this could be implemented with an understanding and just transition, as it were, it promotes change because you're shifting mindsets and in the process you're making sure that there is a proper understanding of the implications, as it were, in terms of skills, in terms of how some of the shifts in terms of jobs, and in particular, if you look in the Eastern Cape, in particular, we have got the automotive sector as one of the key sectors that are very vibrant, and such transition could have very negative implications around the transition, as it were, because when you transition from internal combustion engines to new energy vehicles, you need to make sure that the skills that might be obsolete in the process, you have a way of implementing rescaling programs.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: And also in the process, the awareness is now because when the time comes for implementation, everyone ought to be taken on board so that there's no one left behind.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: And also you look at the production processes that need to be configured in the process, and how do you do that to make sure that the Eastern Cape, as it were, is not left behind in terms of the leading role it plays in the automotive sector.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: So the theory of just transition, as it were, in as much as it's still at its infancy, but thanks to this workshop, because it empowers, it empowers us as practitioners across the spectrum to have that understanding.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: And as we communicate those developmental prospects and trajectory, we are able to actually impart the correct messages and to make sure that the educational elements are being implemented.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, and we wish you all of the best on the practice part, applying the theory into practice when you're back on the job.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we do appreciate hearing from you that you understand the long-term planning that needs to be taken into account.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of hard work that lies ahead, and also to understand the risks and make sure we are prepared and that the Eastern Cape doesn't lose out on any um competitiveness in terms of the automotive sector also needing to transition.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we wish you all of the best and we look forward to engage with you in our community of practice, and we're here to support you going further.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much, Elisa.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think the community of practice will be a very uh instrumental in terms of making sure that there's knowledge sharing and also to just create partners in terms of just to co-create solutions and also to have bodies that you can talk to once you want to confer some of the theoretical aspects, the practice uh notes that are in the industry.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's a very interesting time.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you so much, and I truly appreciate it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Very welcome.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we think that it's we sound very positive from your perspective, you know, that there is a need for greater collaboration across provinces, and also, you know, we all share the same planet at the end of the day.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: We can't compete as provinces, we need to work better together, and some provinces have unique solutions, and in terms of the community of practice, we can learn from each other and share those projects that really stood out, and what were the elements that can be applied.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Certainly, certainly, especially the framework on the finance part of things.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: It might appear to be cumbersome, but once you know what other provinces are doing or other practitioners are doing in terms because some of the projects might have similarities, so that professional knowledge sharing platform will enable that.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: And certainly, thank you so much for the engagement session.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: We would like to thank all our guests that participated in this podcast session today.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your insights on the dynamics in the Eastern Cape region were of great value, and that wraps up our episode.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: A huge thank you to the guests for sharing their expertise, their time, and attending this training.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you will continue to champion the mandate of greening the economy in a just and equitable way.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And to our listeners, your support means the world.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, sustainable growth is not just a goal, but a path to a more resilient and prosperous future.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and connect with us on social media.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, I'm Elise Hutting, your host, and I'm signing off.