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Musicians' Perspectives on Church and Secular Gigs · Music Explored Podcast

• 0:00
  That's
• 0:00
  dope.
• 0:01
  I
• 0:01
  always
• 0:02
  had
• 0:02
  a
• 0:02
  question
• 0:02
  and
• 0:02
  I
• 0:03
  can't
• 0:03
  believe
• 0:03
  I've
• 0:04
  never
• 0:04
  even
• 0:04
  asked
• 0:04
  Anthony
• 0:05
  this
• 0:05
  question.
• 0:05
  But
• 0:05
  I
• 0:06
  did
• 0:06
  ask
• 0:06
  another
• 0:07
  band
• 0:07
  member
• 0:07
  before.
• 0:08
  As
• 0:09
  gentlemen
• 0:09
  that
• 0:10
  go
• 0:10
  to
• 0:10
  church
• 0:11
  regularly,
• 0:12
  how
• 0:12
  do
• 0:12
  you
• 0:13
  reconcile
• 0:14
  with
• 0:14
  the
• 0:14
  battle
• 0:14
  of
• 0:15
  playing
• 0:16
  in
• 0:16
  a
• 0:16
  gospel
• 0:17
  band
• 0:17
  as
• 0:17
  opposed
• 0:18
  to
• 0:18
  playing
• 0:18
  in
• 0:19
  a
• 0:19
  non
• 0:20
  gospel
• 0:20
  band?
• 0:21
  Do
• 0:21
  you
• 0:21
  guys
• 0:21
  understand
• 0:22
  what
• 0:22
  I'm
• 0:22
  saying?
• 0:23
  Is
• 0:24
  there
• 0:24
  any
• 0:24
  backlash
• 0:25
  that
• 0:25
  you
• 0:25
  guys
• 0:25
  receive
• 0:26
  from
• 0:26
  friends
• 0:27
  or
• 0:27
  other
• 0:28
  Christians
• 0:29
  or
• 0:29
  is
• 0:29
  it
• 0:29
  just
• 0:30
  a
• 0:30
  gig's
• 0:30
  a
• 0:30
  gig?
• 0:31
  And
• 0:31
  I
• 0:31
  don't
• 0:31
  really
• 0:31
  focus
• 0:32
  on,
• 0:32
  you
• 0:32
  know,
• 0:33
  the
• 0:33
  secular
• 0:33
  part
• 0:33
  of,
• 0:34
  you
• 0:34
  know,
• 0:34
  the
• 0:34
  music
• 0:35
  that
• 0:35
  I'm
• 0:35
  playing.
• 0:35
  I
• 0:35
  just
• 0:36
  play
• 0:36
  as
• 0:36
  a
• 0:36
  professional
• 0:36
  musician.
• 0:37
  Good
• 0:37
  question.
• 0:38
  I
• 0:38
  guess
• 0:38
  that's
• 0:38
  the
• 0:38
  both
• 0:38
  of
• 0:39
  you.
• 0:39
  That's
• 0:39
  a
• 0:39
  fair
• 0:39
  question.
• 0:41
  I
• 0:42
  guess
• 0:42
  I'll
• 0:42
  go
• 0:42
  first
• 0:42
  on
• 0:43
  that.
• 0:43
  Should
• 0:43
  have
• 0:44
  threw
• 0:44
  it
• 0:44
  to
• 0:44
  you
• 0:44
  so
• 0:44
  I
• 0:44
  can
• 0:44
  buy
• 0:45
  some
• 0:45
  time,
• 0:46
  piggyback
• 0:46
  off
• 0:46
  your
• 0:47
  answer
• 0:47
  and
• 0:48
  keep
• 0:49
  myself
• 0:49
  employed
• 0:50
  in
• 0:50
  the,
• 0:51
  in
• 0:51
  the
• 0:51
  church
• 0:51
  world.
• 0:52
  That's
• 0:52
  cool.
• 0:52
  No,
• 0:53
  you
• 0:53
  know
• 0:53
  what
• 0:53
  it
• 0:53
  is?
• 0:53
  Well,
• 0:53
  first
• 0:54
  of
• 0:54
  all,
• 0:54
  I
• 0:54
  don't
• 0:54
  really
• 0:55
  do
• 0:55
  a
• 0:55
  lot
• 0:55
  of
• 0:55
  outside
• 0:55
  the
• 0:56
  church
• 0:56
  stuff
• 0:56
  right
• 0:56
  now,
• 0:56
  to
• 0:57
  be
• 0:57
  honest.
• 0:57
  I
• 0:57
  do
• 0:57
  more
• 0:57
  booking
• 0:58
  than
• 0:58
  I
• 0:58
  do
• 0:58
  playing,
• 0:59
  so
• 0:59
  that
• 1:00
  makes
• 1:00
  it
• 1:00
  easy.
• 1:00
  But
• 1:00
  there
• 1:01
  was
• 1:01
  a
• 1:01
  time
• 1:01
  where
• 1:01
  I
• 1:01
  was
• 1:01
  doing
• 1:02
  a
• 1:02
  lot
• 1:02
  of
• 1:02
  both.
• 1:04
  Right.
• 1:04
  And
• 1:04
  there
• 1:05
  were
• 1:05
  times.
• 1:05
  I
• 1:05
  mean,
• 1:06
  I
• 1:06
  think
• 1:06
  it's
• 1:06
  a
• 1:06
  personal
• 1:07
  comfort
• 1:07
  thing.
• 1:08
  I
• 1:08
  think
• 1:08
  you
• 1:08
  just
• 1:09
  need
• 1:09
  to
• 1:09
  know
• 1:10
  where
• 1:10
  you
• 1:10
  stand
• 1:10
  on
• 1:11
  both
• 1:11
  sides
• 1:12
  or
• 1:12
  on
• 1:12
  one
• 1:12
  side
• 1:13
  more
• 1:13
  importantly.
• 1:14
  And
• 1:14
  then
• 1:14
  there's
• 1:14
  a
• 1:14
  place
• 1:15
  that
• 1:15
  you.
• 1:15
  There's
• 1:15
  probably
• 1:16
  a
• 1:16
  line
• 1:16
  that
• 1:16
  you
• 1:16
  just
• 1:16
  shouldn't
• 1:17
  cross.
• 1:17
  So
• 1:17
  if
• 1:17
  anything
• 1:18
  makes
• 1:18
  you
• 1:18
  uncomfortable,
• 1:19
  I
• 1:20
  think
• 1:20
  it
• 1:20
  needs
• 1:20
  to
• 1:20
  be
• 1:20
  personal
• 1:21
  more
• 1:21
  than
• 1:21
  to
• 1:22
  appease
• 1:22
  other
• 1:22
  people
• 1:23
  first
• 1:23
  and
• 1:23
  foremost.
• 1:24
  So
• 1:24
  if
• 1:24
  this
• 1:25
  is
• 1:25
  your
• 1:25
  relationship
• 1:26
  with
• 1:26
  God,
• 1:26
  if
• 1:26
  that's
• 1:26
  the
• 1:27
  reason
• 1:27
  why,
• 1:28
  then
• 1:28
  you
• 1:28
  have
• 1:28
  to
• 1:28
  do
• 1:28
  what
• 1:29
  makes
• 1:29
  you
• 1:29
  feel
• 1:29
  comfortable
• 1:30
  within
• 1:30
  that.
• 1:30
  And
• 1:31
  don't
• 1:31
  go
• 1:31
  beyond
• 1:31
  that
• 1:31
  for
• 1:32
  anybody
• 1:32
  else
• 1:32
  or
• 1:33
  for
• 1:33
  money,
• 1:33
  because
• 1:33
  that's
• 1:33
  just
• 1:34
  not
• 1:34
  going
• 1:34
  to
• 1:34
  get
• 1:34
  you
• 1:34
  very
• 1:35
  far.
• 1:35
  And
• 1:35
  I
• 1:35
  think
• 1:36
  that
• 1:36
  would
• 1:36
  apply
• 1:36
  to
• 1:36
  anything
• 1:37
  in
• 1:37
  life.
• 1:37
  Right.
• 1:37
  Like
• 1:38
  you
• 1:38
  need
• 1:38
  to
• 1:39
  first
• 1:39
  of
• 1:39
  all
• 1:40
  stick
• 1:40
  to
• 1:40
  what
• 1:40
  you
• 1:40
  believe.
• 1:41
  Peer
• 1:41
  pressure,
• 1:42
  money,
• 1:42
  these
• 1:43
  are
• 1:43
  all
• 1:43
  things
• 1:43
  that
• 1:43
  will
• 1:43
  pull
• 1:44
  you
• 1:44
  away.
• 1:44
  So
• 1:45
  that's
• 1:46
  the
• 1:47
  kind
• 1:47
  of
• 1:47
  short
• 1:47
  answer
• 1:48
  for
• 1:48
  me.
• 1:48
  Obviously,
• 1:48
  if
• 1:48
  you're
• 1:49
  thinking
• 1:49
  about
• 1:49
  as
• 1:50
  a
• 1:50
  musician
• 1:50
  who's
• 1:50
  a
• 1:51
  full
• 1:51
  time
• 1:51
  musician,
• 1:52
  those
• 1:52
  choices
• 1:53
  aren't
• 1:53
  always
• 1:53
  that
• 1:53
  easy.
• 1:54
  There's
• 1:54
  a
• 1:54
  lot
• 1:54
  more
• 1:55
  work
• 1:55
  in
• 1:55
  the
• 1:55
  secular
• 1:56
  as
• 1:56
  you
• 1:56
  will
• 1:56
  world
• 1:57
  than
• 1:57
  there
• 1:57
  is
• 1:57
  in
• 1:57
  the
• 1:58
  church
• 1:58
  world.
• 1:58
  Unless
• 1:58
  you're
• 1:59
  one
• 1:59
  of
• 1:59
  the
• 1:59
  lucky
• 2:00
  to
• 2:00
  have
• 2:00
  like
• 2:01
  a
• 2:01
  full
• 2:01
  time
• 2:01
  employment
• 2:01
  with
• 2:02
  the
• 2:02
  church,
• 2:03
  it
• 2:04
  ain't
• 2:04
  that
• 2:04
  easy
• 2:04
  to
• 2:04
  live.
• 2:05
  So
• 2:05
  you
• 2:05
  kind
• 2:05
  of
• 2:05
  like,
• 2:06
  yeah,
• 2:06
  he
• 2:06
  still
• 2:06
  comes
• 2:07
  back
• 2:07
  to
• 2:07
  the
• 2:07
  same
• 2:07
  thing.
• 2:07
  You
• 2:07
  have
• 2:07
  to
• 2:08
  pick
• 2:08
  and
• 2:08
  choose.
• 2:08
  And
• 2:09
  there
• 2:09
  are
• 2:09
  a
• 2:09
  Lot
• 2:09
  of
• 2:09
  other
• 2:10
  ways
• 2:10
  beyond
• 2:10
  playing,
• 2:11
  I
• 2:11
  think,
• 2:11
  which
• 2:11
  a
• 2:11
  lot
• 2:11
  of
• 2:12
  us
• 2:12
  have
• 2:12
  discovered
• 2:13
  at
• 2:13
  this
• 2:13
  point,
• 2:14
  where
• 2:14
  you
• 2:14
  can
• 2:15
  still
• 2:15
  make
• 2:15
  a
• 2:15
  pretty
• 2:16
  nice
• 2:16
  living
• 2:17
  being
• 2:17
  creative
• 2:18
  and
• 2:19
  without
• 2:19
  so
• 2:19
  much
• 2:20
  emphasis
• 2:20
  on
• 2:21
  the
• 2:22
  music.
• 2:22
  That's
• 2:23
  kind
• 2:23
  of
• 2:23
  my
• 2:23
  answer.
• 2:23
  Let's
• 2:24
  see
• 2:24
  what
• 2:24
  you
• 2:24
  got.
• 2:25
  That's
• 2:25
  a
• 2:25
  great
• 2:25
  answer.
• 2:25
  No,
• 2:26
  I
• 2:26
  appreciate
• 2:26
  that.
• 2:27
  Political.
• 2:28
  Yeah,
• 2:29
  very
• 2:29
  political.
• 2:30
  But
• 2:30
  it
• 2:30
  was
• 2:30
  spot
• 2:30
  on.
• 2:30
  No,
• 2:31
  and
• 2:31
  I.
• 2:31
  I
• 2:31
  understand
• 2:32
  where
• 2:32
  you're
• 2:32
  coming
• 2:32
  from
• 2:33
  completely.
• 2:33
  All
• 2:33
  right,
• 2:33
  your
• 2:34
  turn,
• 2:34
  Heathen.
• 2:34
  I
• 2:35
  mean,
• 2:35
  I'm
• 2:35
  just
• 2:36
  joking.
• 2:39
  Oh,
• 2:40
  man.
• 2:41
  So
• 2:43
  I
• 2:43
  think
• 2:44
  for
• 2:44
  me,
• 2:45
  when
• 2:45
  I.
• 2:45
  When
• 2:45
  I
• 2:46
  first
• 2:46
  started
• 2:47
  playing,
• 2:47
  like,
• 2:47
  secular
• 2:48
  gigs,
• 2:48
  if
• 2:48
  we
• 2:49
  want
• 2:49
  to
• 2:49
  use
• 2:49
  that
• 2:49
  word,
• 2:50
  I
• 2:51
  hate
• 2:51
  nothing.
• 2:53
  It's.
• 2:54
  It's
• 2:54
  okay,
• 2:54
  man.
• 2:55
  It's
• 2:55
  fine.
• 2:57
  I
• 2:57
  think,
• 2:58
  like,
• 2:58
  what
• 2:58
  my
• 2:58
  parents
• 2:59
  always,
• 2:59
  like,
• 3:01
  kind
• 3:02
  of
• 3:02
  focused
• 3:02
  on
• 3:02
  was
• 3:02
  like,
• 3:03
  hey,
• 3:03
  like,
• 3:03
  if
• 3:04
  you.
• 3:04
  If
• 3:05
  this
• 3:05
  doesn't
• 3:05
  feel
• 3:06
  right
• 3:06
  with
• 3:06
  your
• 3:06
  spirit,
• 3:07
  don't
• 3:07
  do
• 3:08
  it.
• 3:08
  And
• 3:09
  it
• 3:09
  was
• 3:09
  just
• 3:09
  as
• 3:09
  simple
• 3:10
  as
• 3:10
  that.
• 3:10
  Like,
• 3:10
  just
• 3:11
  don't
• 3:11
  do
• 3:11
  it.
• 3:11
  Yeah.
• 3:12
  And
• 3:13
  so
• 3:13
  they
• 3:13
  always
• 3:13
  trusted
• 3:14
  me
• 3:15
  to
• 3:15
  kind
• 3:15
  of
• 3:15
  choose
• 3:15
  that
• 3:16
  early
• 3:16
  on.
• 3:16
  So
• 3:16
  I
• 3:17
  think
• 3:17
  when
• 3:18
  I
• 3:18
  made
• 3:18
  the
• 3:18
  mistakes
• 3:19
  of
• 3:19
  maybe
• 3:19
  early
• 3:19
  on,
• 3:20
  like,
• 3:20
  when
• 3:20
  the
• 3:20
  money
• 3:20
  was
• 3:21
  like,
• 3:21
  I
• 3:21
  was
• 3:21
  young
• 3:21
  and
• 3:21
  I
• 3:22
  was
• 3:22
  like,
• 3:22
  oh,
• 3:22
  my
• 3:22
  gosh,
• 3:22
  this
• 3:22
  is
• 3:23
  such
• 3:23
  a
• 3:23
  cool
• 3:23
  gig.
• 3:24
  And
• 3:24
  then
• 3:24
  I
• 3:24
  end
• 3:24
  up
• 3:25
  playing
• 3:25
  some
• 3:25
  rap
• 3:26
  artists.
• 3:26
  That's
• 3:26
  like,
• 3:26
  the
• 3:27
  whole
• 3:27
  atmosphere
• 3:28
  is
• 3:28
  just
• 3:28
  trash.
• 3:29
  Like,
• 3:30
  people
• 3:30
  are
• 3:31
  drugs
• 3:32
  around
• 3:32
  me.
• 3:32
  It's
• 3:33
  like,
• 3:33
  oh,
• 3:33
  I
• 3:33
  don't
• 3:33
  want
• 3:34
  to
• 3:34
  be
• 3:34
  here.
• 3:34
  Right?
• 3:35
  So
• 3:35
  after
• 3:36
  I
• 3:36
  had
• 3:36
  the
• 3:36
  one
• 3:36
  or
• 3:37
  two
• 3:37
  experiences
• 3:37
  of
• 3:38
  that
• 3:38
  early
• 3:38
  on,
• 3:39
  it
• 3:39
  was
• 3:39
  like
• 3:39
  that.
• 3:40
  That
• 3:41
  sentiment
• 3:42
  that
• 3:42
  they
• 3:42
  gave
• 3:42
  me,
• 3:43
  it
• 3:43
  just
• 3:43
  kind
• 3:43
  of
• 3:43
  stuck.
• 3:44
  And
• 3:44
  I
• 3:44
  was
• 3:44
  like,
• 3:44
  no,
• 3:45
  no,
• 3:45
  I'm
• 3:45
  gonna
• 3:45
  stick
• 3:45
  by
• 3:46
  this
• 3:46
  so
• 3:46
  that
• 3:46
  I
• 3:47
  don't
• 3:47
  have
• 3:47
  to
• 3:47
  do
• 3:48
  this
• 3:49
  nasty,
• 3:50
  nasty
• 3:50
  environment
• 3:51
  again.
• 3:51
  And
• 3:52
  I
• 3:52
  just
• 3:52
  kind
• 3:52
  of
• 3:52
  stuck
• 3:53
  with
• 3:53
  that.
• 3:53
  I
• 3:53
  don't
• 3:53
  feel
• 3:54
  any,
• 3:54
  like,
• 3:55
  guilt
• 3:55
  or
• 3:55
  anything
• 3:56
  playing
• 3:56
  any
• 3:56
  of
• 3:56
  those
• 3:57
  gigs,
• 3:57
  too,
• 3:57
  because
• 3:57
  it's
• 3:58
  partly
• 3:58
  my
• 3:58
  living.
• 3:59
  And
• 4:00
  again,
• 4:00
  like,
• 4:00
  I
• 4:00
  don't
• 4:01
  accept
• 4:01
  anything
• 4:02
  that's,
• 4:02
  like,
• 4:03
  nuts.
• 4:04
  Not
• 4:05
  too
• 4:05
  far.
• 4:05
  Yeah,
• 4:06
  that's
• 4:06
  kind
• 4:06
  of
• 4:06
  my
• 4:06
  answer
• 4:07
  for
• 4:07
  it.
• 4:07
  That
• 4:07
  makes
• 4:07
  perfect
• 4:08
  sense.
• 4:09
  Yeah,
• 4:10
  there
• 4:10
  was
• 4:10
  a
• 4:10
  lot
• 4:10
  of
• 4:10
  pushback.
• 4:12
  I
• 4:12
  mean,
• 4:12
  we've
• 4:12
  all
• 4:13
  heard
• 4:13
  it,
• 4:14
  especially
• 4:14
  some
• 4:14
  of
• 4:14
  the
• 4:14
  guys
• 4:15
  that
• 4:15
  we
• 4:15
  know.
• 4:15
  Like,
• 4:16
  I
• 4:16
  guess
• 4:16
  if
• 4:16
  we're
• 4:16
  going
• 4:16
  back
• 4:17
  to,
• 4:17
  like,
• 4:18
  I
• 4:18
  don't
• 4:18
  know,
• 4:19
  early
• 4:19
  2000s
• 4:20
  or
• 4:20
  mid
• 4:20
  2000s
• 4:21
  ish,
• 4:22
  when
• 4:22
  we'd
• 4:22
  have
• 4:22
  guys
• 4:23
  like.
• 4:24
  Well,
• 4:24
  when,
• 4:24
  like,
• 4:25
  Drake
• 4:25
  came
• 4:25
  out,
• 4:26
  we
• 4:26
  had
• 4:26
  guys
• 4:27
  like
• 4:27
  J.
• 4:28
  Laws.
• 4:28
  He
• 4:29
  was
• 4:29
  playing
• 4:29
  bass
• 4:29
  for
• 4:30
  him
• 4:30
  and
• 4:30
  Adrian
• 4:31
  Bent.
• 4:31
  And
• 4:31
  these
• 4:31
  guys
• 4:31
  are
• 4:32
  all
• 4:32
  church
• 4:32
  guys,
• 4:32
  and
• 4:33
  they
• 4:33
  were
• 4:34
  taking
• 4:34
  a
• 4:34
  lot
• 4:34
  of
• 4:35
  slack
• 4:35
  from.
• 4:36
  From
• 4:37
  that
• 4:37
  church
• 4:37
  world
• 4:38
  community.
• 4:38
  At
• 4:38
  the
• 4:38
  same
• 4:39
  time,
• 4:39
  it's
• 4:39
  like,
• 4:40
  I'm
• 4:40
  a
• 4:40
  musician.
• 4:41
  I'm.
• 4:41
  You
• 4:41
  know,
• 4:42
  there's.
• 4:42
  There's.
• 4:42
  There's
• 4:43
  different
• 4:43
  ways
• 4:43
  to
• 4:43
  justify
• 4:44
  it,
• 4:44
  but
• 4:44
  at
• 4:44
  the
• 4:44
  same,
• 4:45
  this
• 4:45
  is
• 4:45
  opportunity,
• 4:46
  right?
• 4:46
  Like,
• 4:47
  without
• 4:47
  your
• 4:47
  foot
• 4:47
  in
• 4:48
  that
• 4:48
  door,
• 4:50
  you
• 4:50
  don't
• 4:51
  get
• 4:51
  to
• 4:51
  reach
• 4:51
  the
• 4:51
  levels
• 4:52
  that
• 4:52
  you
• 4:52
  maybe
• 4:52
  aspire
• 4:53
  to
• 4:53
  reach.
• 4:53
  So
• 4:53
  there
• 4:53
  are
• 4:53
  maybe
• 4:54
  some
• 4:54
  things
• 4:54
  that
• 4:54
  you
• 4:54
  have
• 4:55
  to
• 4:55
  go
• 4:55
  through
• 4:55
  where
• 4:55
  you
• 4:55
  just
• 4:55
  have
• 4:56
  to
• 4:56
  be
• 4:56
  able
• 4:56
  to
• 4:56
  separate
• 4:57
  who
• 4:57
  you
• 4:58
  are
• 4:58
  versus
• 4:58
  the
• 4:58
  music
• 4:59
  and
• 4:59
  also
• 4:59
  know
• 4:59
  that
• 4:59
  when
• 5:00
  you
• 5:00
  step
• 5:00
  into
• 5:00
  that
• 5:00
  world,
• 5:01
  you're
• 5:01
  bringing
• 5:01
  your
• 5:01
  own.
• 5:02
  Your
• 5:02
  own
• 5:03
  light
• 5:03
  that
• 5:03
  you
• 5:03
  can,
• 5:04
  you
• 5:04
  know,
• 5:04
  shine
• 5:04
  onto
• 5:05
  other
• 5:05
  people.
• 5:05
  So
• 5:06
  beyond
• 5:06
  the
• 5:06
  music,
• 5:07
  it's
• 5:07
  still
• 5:07
  the
• 5:07
  relationships
• 5:08
  and
• 5:08
  the
• 5:08
  opportunity
• 5:09
  to
• 5:11
  network
• 5:11
  beyond
• 5:12
  your
• 5:12
  current
• 5:12
  reach.
• 5:13
  So
• 5:13
  there's
• 5:13
  a
• 5:13
  lot,
• 5:13
  man.
• 5:13
  But
• 5:15
  some
• 5:15
  good
• 5:15
  questions.
• 5:16
  Great
• 5:16
  answers,
• 5:16
  guys.
• 5:17
  Very
• 5:17
  good
• 5:17
  question
• 5:18
  or
• 5:18
  sorry
• 5:18
  answers,
• 5:19
  too.
• 5:19
  Appreciate
• 5:20
  them
• 5:20
  for
• 5:20
  both.