Latest / GowayPro Travel Tales / Roughty Toughty Adventures:Philanthropy and Culture in PapuaNew Guinea

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Roughty Toughty Adventures:Philanthropy and Culture in PapuaNew Guinea · GowayPro Travel Tales

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  In the truest sense Papua New Guinea is the last frontier on earth.
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  Part of the world's second largest island, Papua New Guinea is one of the world's least explored countries with over 750 tribes flourishing with little or no outside influence or
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  many a year.
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  The island's country's coral reefs support over 1200 different fish species as an integral part of the coral triangle.
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  generally considered by marine biologists as the global epicentre of marine species diversity.
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  Hey there everyone, I'm Don, Professor Goay and welcome to the GoayPro Travel Tale Podcast.
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  Travel far and travel often.
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  Yeah.
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  my God.
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  Okay.
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  Here we go again.
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  That's such a newbie blunder.
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  Just before he came on air, I did the introduction I'm about to do and I forgot to push the record button.
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  So I feel like a bit of a newbie as I said, just said, so today we are welcome to our podcast, go a pro travel tales podcast, which is normally me speaking to one of our trade
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  partners.
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  be a ground operator around the world, one of our tourist board partners or even airline partners.
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  But today we're doing something a little bit different.
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  We're speaking to, guess, one of a, maybe a crass term, our end users, so to speak, one of a couple of our clients who traveled with Go Way to many, too many of our locations around
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  the world.
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  And we'll touch on where else they've been.
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  But in this instance, they've just recently come back in October of last year from Papua New Guinea, which is truly a different
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  destination to say the least.
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  And before I keep saying they, am referring to our guests here today, John and Peggy.
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  Welcome John and Peggy for joining us today.
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  So my first question would be of all the destinations in the world, and as I mentioned in the intro, this is considered one of the last frontiers of travel.
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  What attracted you to choosing Papua New Guinea as a destination?
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  Thanks, Don.
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  Well, I'm going to...
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  quickly try and give you an overview of that one, answer to that question.
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  We had a chance, we wanted to travel to the South Pacific and we had identified Papua New Guinea as one of our possible locations because I guess maybe when I was going to
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  elementary school, way back when, I used to bring home National Geographic and Reader's Digest books about the mud men.
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  in Papua New Guinea about the tribes in Papua New Guinea.
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  And I remember actually reading about a new tribe was found in Papua New Guinea and Go-Way in its materials talked about the Melpa tribe just being found in the 1930s.
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  And we will have a chance to, as one of our side trips to visit them.
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  And I said, perfect.
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  Uh, so let's talk about, uh, popping the getting, now, obviously there's a lot more to that, uh, to, to that answer to that question, I should say, but, I think that's probably
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  enough now.
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  Yeah, sure.
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  Um, so you mentioned you, you had looked at, or we're looking at the South Pacific at that time.
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  Had you been to the South Pacific before I had you visited Australia or New Zealand or any of the Pacific islands?
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  Uh, no, we, um, we live in Alberta and just to give people that background, um, before.
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  I retired in 2017.
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  spent our summers, holidays visiting the East Coast of Canada because that's where our family lives.
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  But when we retired, the first thing we did was take a couple of trips off to Europe, not with a company per se.
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  We just booked ourselves in and out and traveled Europe on our own.
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  We started by going over for two months because having retired, we could spend a little more time.
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  Then we went off to Ecuador and the Galapagos.
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  We did that with a couple tours.
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  Then we went to Bolivia.
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  We did that with guides and drivers, not go away, but with the tour, so to speak, privatized for us.
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  We took off to Tectayaktuk in Canada when COVID, toward the end of COVID.
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  South Africa was our first trip with go away.
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  And we went to a few countries in the Southern part and then off to the South Pacific with go away.
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  So that was a personalized guide and driver kind of thing.
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  And our first time into that part of the world.
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  So again, when you said you went to the South Pacific, was that the Papa New Guinea trip or yes.
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  Yeah.
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  Okay.
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  So again, so I guess that's my, my, my curiosity question.
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  and I'm with you.
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  in spirit in regards to looking at these type of countries.
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  Again, you know, the sort of last frontiers or the less traveled areas.
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  So, you know, I love the fact that that's what you looked at.
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  But I also notice in your past travels, you mentioned Bolivia as well, which within the world of Latin America, which is my area of expertise, that would be one of the last
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  frontiers within Latin America.
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  So I'm inspired to hear that that's what you're looking at.
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  So what took you to Papua New Guinea over doing, I guess, one of the more
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  predictable destinations for particularly a first time traveler to the South Pacific.
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  Why did you choose Papua New Guinea over Australia or New Zealand?
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  Well, we didn't.
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  We chose Papua New Guinea as a part of our South Pacific trip.
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  also included Australia.
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  We did two weeks, Australia, two weeks Papua New Guinea, two weeks Vanuatu and about 10 days in Fiji.
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  So it became a part of our South Pacific trip.
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  I see.
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  Sorry.
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  I misunderstood.
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  Okay.
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  Well that makes a bit more sense again, cause it's such a long way to go.
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  You might as well knock as much off.
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  Yes.
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  That's right.
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  But yeah, but my comment still stands.
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  I believe that even adding Papua New Guinea is something that most people would not do.
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  So for those who may not know where it is, I'll throw up a map.
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  As I'm saying this Papua New Guinea, um, as I mentioned, the intro as well is the second largest Island and sits above the largest island or continent or one of the largest
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  continents, Australia.
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  The landmass is split into two.
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  One half the eastern part is as we discussed today Papua New Guinea and the western part belongs to the country of Indonesia.
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  So what attracted you to Papua New You mentioned John that it was the old school National Geographic, which I remember growing up to.
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  If you look at National Geographic,
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  the iconic site was a tribes person from Papua New Guinea always seemed to be that thing.
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  was it solely that childhood memory or was it some more modern exploration or research that wanted you to do that?
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  Yeah, I would say probably a bit of both.
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  Certainly when you plan a trip of that nature, you have to think about more than just what you used to read, but also
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  What's the latest in terms of safety and security?
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  And so with GoWay, we worked actually almost two years before we finalized the plan.
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  A couple things happened.
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  I believe one of the tour operators that GoWay was using went out of business, which affects the plan of course.
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  had some tribal conflict.
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  in one of the areas that we're supposed to go to in our earlier plans.
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  And we spoke to your Go Away representative, perhaps eliminating that area in our travel.
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  So then we fine tuned it and then as maybe not know, but we also did ask through Go Away, if we through, we have a foundation in our local community for early literacy.
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  And we often, when we travel, we try and provide some funding or
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  some support to local schools or educational groups that we come across.
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  And we did ask the local through Go-Away again, the local operator in Papua New Guinea to give us some ideas where we could support that.
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  And that became a big feature in our trip to Papua New Guinea.
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  excellent.
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  we'll expand on that in a minute.
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  was the choice of Papua New Guinea
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  in its infrastructure, maybe lack thereof that you would obviously see probably in Australia and elsewhere.
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  Is that something that I don't want to say what the word concern is because obviously it doesn't cause you did travel there, but a lot of people won't be looking for the
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  rough-t-tough-t as I term it.
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  Is that something that you like to seek the rough-t-tough-t side of travel?
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  Yeah, somewhat.
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  think that what counterbalances that is that we look for guide and driver.
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  So that we want to, we're traveling very personally.
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  and we have that contact with someone who's with us all the time.
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  And that allows us to not be maybe as fearful of, of going to more remote places.
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  Okay.
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  Now that's, a key aspect to what go away does be at somewhere like Papua New Guinea, Bolivia, Italy, Sydney is that we highly suggest the personal private guided touring.
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  for the reasons that Peggy just mentioned, or that's one of, there's that security aspect, particularly if you're in areas that may not be so heavily touristed, which is a good
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  thing.
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  But also, and I guess you two can speak to this as well, is you have that true flexibility of being able to do what you want to do when you want to do it based on your guides and
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  your conversation and personal interests.
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  The tour can be designed that way or it can turn that way when you're in country.
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  And I've had this experience where we're speaking to a guy and a topic comes up and he's able to take us to something that reflects the topic we just discussed.
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  Would you agree that that's also one of the good aspects of that type of traveling, regardless of country?
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  Absolutely.
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  I think that we get a very close, a much closer connection to the people and the culture because we're, talking with someone who actually lives there and he's with us and
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  Once you break down some of those barriers around just relationship, then you get into good, solid conversations.
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  You talk about the politics, you talk about what's really happening there.
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  And we come away, I think, with a really sound sense of today's world for these people, for that country.
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  did very well and they win the best territory of mass of land hunting, fishing, sego farming areas.
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  Yokoyin tribe did it in Karawari and they occupied full Karawari by Yokoyin tribe.
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  They beat the other tribes by war rate and they had cannibals.
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  They killed the victims, they brought them back and they take the tropics, the skull I mean, and then they steam cook skulls kept.
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  and the spirit houses paint and then the bodies cut among themselves and then they cook and they heat.
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  I'd agree 100%.
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  We had, I was traveling through Eastern Europe just as the Ukraine war broke out, we were in Romania and our guide was discussing with us what it was like from their side of the
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  world in that, they, at that time it wasn't encroaching, but the different views and outlooks and opinions and stuff was very, very enlightening, which you would probably not
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  get in.
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  you know, group environments necessarily.
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  So I can well imagine the in-depth knowledge you to gain through the private guide and or driver would have been definitely well worth it.
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  For logistical point of view.
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  Now I don't, you know, I actually didn't research this cause I wanted to have this a fresh answer.
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  So my question is, how do you get there?
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  went, did you do it before Australia or did you get to Papua New Guinea from Australia?
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  Or can you tell us how you got there?
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  Yeah.
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  So, it's our first trip was in Australia.
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  So we flew from Vancouver to Australia and then did the East coast of Australia.
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  then from there you can easily get to Papua New Guinea.
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  So, Brisbane is probably a central focus point for flights to Port Moresby.
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  You can also fly out of Port Douglas, but, we were in Brisbane.
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  Cans.
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  Oh, that's a poor dog.
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  Yeah, I was going to ask.
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  I was going to ask and I was talking to mention, yeah, you could probably get out of more cans as well if you want to do it.
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  But you guys fill out of as Brisbane as well.
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  So some of the practical matters, which people I'm sure will be very interested in as I am.
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  Did you need any specific shots to visit Papua New Guinea?
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  Is it a malaria area?
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  Is it a yellow fever area?
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  You have your malaria tablets.
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  You take them before you.
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  enter the country and keep taking them for a little bit after.
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  We also have, well, because we've already traveled some of the things we already had yellow fever.
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  We did take the shot for Japanese encephalitis simply because mosquitoes, they hang out there.
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  And on top of that, I highly recommend people take along with them an antibiotic for diarrhea.
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  I mean, you can take your twin wrecks or whatever.
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  for that, but that's just a baseline.
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  The water is not good in Papua New Guinea and you have to be quite cautious.
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  Now just from a legal point of view here, I just need to state this, my opinion and Peggy's advice there is her personal advice.
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  We are not doctors, et cetera.
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  please, yeah, personal.
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  experience, personal.
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  No, I hear you a hundred percent, but just talking from Gawai's point of view.
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  When it comes to any type of shop, please speak to your doctor or travel clinic about the destination you're traveling to.
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  But again, what your doctor will probably tell you is what Peggy and John's doctor told them.
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  So the information will probably not be different, but again, please speak to your doctor in that instance.
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  So you mentioned the water is not great to drink potable water.
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  from a food point of view, what's that like?
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  Is it, is it local cuisine?
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  Is it again, and I've never been to Papua New Guinea.
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  Well, actually,
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  Let me rephrase that.
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  I actually lived in Papua New Guinea for about a year, but I was, think, one or two years old.
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  So I can say it, but I have no memories whatsoever of it.
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  So my knowledge is, is, is nil.
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  So from a food point of view, what's it like eating down there?
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  Is it again, local, Western, et cetera?
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  Yeah.
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  So they try very hard.
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  from their perspective of what a tourist is, they try to have foods that the North American, European, Australian tourists is going to like.
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  they're not, unless you're going into the village, and even when you do that, you have to carry your own food.
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  So they're trying to cater to you as much as possible.
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  They have purified water, but you have to be careful because some of that infrastructure isn't always working.
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  Because the country's poor.
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  They're trying to put together a tourist industry.
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  They don't have a lot of money and some things fall apart.
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  my case, was the purification system in the one lodge was not, I think, working.
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  Right.
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  Is there a mark difference from when you landed in Port Moresby?
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  Do you feel like you're landing in a developed city like an equivalent of again, not as big as Sydney, course, or Brisbane, but even Vancouver?
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  Does it feel like a modern city or do you feel from the moment you land in their capital city that you've already taken that step back?
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  Not only back in a negative way, I backwards in time to a degree.
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  Well, as soon as you land time.
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  becomes its own slow pace.
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  So that happens the moment you land.
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  You'll, you'll notice that right away.
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  but the airport is very professional and, go away, set us up with, a very modern and, and try probably the best hotel in Port Moresby, which doesn't take you into the city itself.
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  Very far.
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  You're quite close to the air.
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  In fact, it's called the airway.
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  So you're quite close.
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  to the airport.
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  but in tours, you go into the city.
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  Once you start going into the city, you realize that they don't have the infrastructure.
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  They don't have the services.
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  You'll notice that right away.
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  Okay.
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  Then, and then when you headed off to visit the villages, which we'll get into again in multi-teleminute, I guess there's yet another mark difference in infrastructure as in
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  probably lack thereof.
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  Not even electricity.
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  really?
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  So it is that sort of,
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  Yeah, no electricity.
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  Old school.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Even from the point of flying out, you mentioned that your intro, should back up.
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  You mentioned in your intro a lot about the Marine culture, the scuba diving, snorkeling, that thing.
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  But we were inland.
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  So one thing that Port Moresby does not have any roads as the capital city to connect it to any other place within its own country.
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  You have to fly to get anywhere else within the country.
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  So we flew from there to Garoka and Garoka starts to get you into the highlands in the center of the country.
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  so what, when you even start that flight, you know that things are less predictable, less reliable, and you have to be, here's the number one word.
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  just have to be patient.
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  You just have to work with and take a deep breath and keep going.
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  And because you know that it's going to be worth it in the end, you just relax.
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  What happens is going the flow.
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  Fair enough.
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  You have to go with So the aircraft that get you around internally, they would be sort of smaller light aircraft, correct?
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  Well, we're waiting in the terminal in Mount Hagen.
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  private airplane flight to Kowari and this is the terminal surroundings that we are in.
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  most comfortable situation.
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  These are the supplies that are being stored here for other, I think, companies to fly out to the hinterlands of Papua New Guinea.
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  Yeah, they were Fokker 100s within, and so they have a national airline, Air Nguni.
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  It is, and I will say, I don't know how to be polite about this, but it is
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  disorganized and we really needed the local tour operators to assist us to make the flights.
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  I have no understating of that.
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  And then, so they get you into the uplands with their traditional twin engine jets.
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  Once you get on the aircraft, it's fine.
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  But within, so going to the villages on the sea peak, well, then we needed to take a small private airplane, single engine, and land on a little teeny weeny grass runway in the
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  jungle.
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  Wow.
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  This is like to me, this sounds absolutely amazing.
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  From a language point of view, would assume that English is widely spoken or spoken enough for a traveler to get around and communicate, excluding maybe the tribes themselves.
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  No, not really.
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  Because there are so many tribes and it's quite fascinating to consider that those villages that might be set might be
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  seven to 10 kilometers apart, they each developed language independently.
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  within the island, there are 180 some dialects.
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  And what they share is Pidgin English.
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  So when the Europeans arrived, then they, they adjusted or they converted the languages to have this Pidgin English.
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  That's what their
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  their go-to in talking to people is, which I didn't understand.
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  It's a mixture of French and German and English and the local dialects too.
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  And so it's quite complicated.
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  So you rely on the guides to have a better knowledge of English.
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  And we were very fortunate that the TNT group that we worked with
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  That's one of the things that they looked for in their guides was a standard of English so that they could communicate with the tourists.
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  Yeah.
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  So, just to add to Peggy's point as well, you can find tribes only eight kilometers apart who speak different languages.
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  So they cannot speak their own tribal language.
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  And you'll find that the Pigeon English is their go-to.
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  I guess the language that they communicate.
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  But we needed obviously the English train guides to be able to interpret.
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  Okay.
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  Do you know where the roots of their language is from?
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  it, is it Indonesian?
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  it?
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  No, I don't know the route only that each one of their, each one of the tribes and that they are isolated truly.
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  They lived in isolated, very small scale existence.
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  did not have communication.
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  did not have a trade system.
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  The river, to me, it's a great highway, but the river did not connect these tribes.
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  So, or did not act as a connection until we get into the European coming on board and moving throughout the country, that you see these kinds of contexts that brought about
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  more trade between them.
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  They still continue to live a subsistence existence.
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  Everyone has a garden in the interior.
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  They can live without money except for, well, for one, education.
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  The country does not pay for public education, so they need money to pay for their children to go to school.
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  The second thing they need money for is a cell phone because the cell phone is ubiquitous.
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  It is everywhere.
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  They buy minutes.
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  They buy it by the minutes.
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  what they want and you will see the cell phone even within the most remote areas.
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  Wow.
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  Amazing.
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  So, okay.
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  which I'm to jump around a bit here in my thought process.
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  You mentioned the cell phone.
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  So for a traveler, what is a cell connection, particularly up on the islands?
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  Well, that's not good.
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  No, not, good.
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  Okay.
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  It's there, but not to be relied upon.
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  Okay.
• 24:23
  So like, I'm absolutely fascinated by this, but let me just get back to a core question for you.
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  So was the attraction for Papua New Guinea,
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  this experience to meet the tribes or was it, I know you didn't go coastal.
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  it to see Port Moresby or was your driving desire was to interact with the tribes of Papua New Guinea?
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  It's cultural.
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  Yeah.
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  And cultural and landscape.
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  I have a degree in geography and I love geography.
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  I love the fact that you can see so many different landscapes, environments and how people
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  adapt to each of those different places, but culturally would be the number one attraction, I think.
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  Yeah, and I think interactions with the locals.
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  don't have to be, we don't have to go to all the big national museums and things of that sort to do typical tourist things, but tell me more about how it is to live here.
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  Tell me more about your political landscape and that, and if we can get that kind of contact, then we have had a successful trip.
• 25:50
  excellent.
• 25:52
  We do have a lot of people, particularly from the U S who will travel to the South Pacific to explore some of the world war two history.
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  Now I know Canada and the U S were down there, but it's really Papua New Guinea is quite famous in the Australian collective memory for things like the Kokoda trail.
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  And there was a lot of pretty heavy, nasty warfare between the Japanese and the allies and primarily spearheaded by the Australians down there.
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  And just a little segue here, the Papua New Guinean people fought for the most part on the ally side and the Australian soldiers, well the Papua New Guineans helped with evacuating
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  the wounded and whatnot and the Australians had a very cute term for it, it's probably not politically correct these days, but at the time it was called the fuzzy wuzzies because
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  the Papua New Guineans had like big afro hairstyles.
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  I'll throw up an image to show you there.
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  So if someone is interested in World War II history, and I heard John, you sort of nodding in agreement there already, this would be a good destination for them if that is their
• 27:00
  interest.
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  Well, they have obviously the big Boma site in Port Moresby, which is cemetery, which I guess 3,400 Australians been buried there.
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  And the Kokoda trail, you know, when we flew from Brisbane to Port Moresby, half that plane was doing the Kokoda trail.
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  Oh, they were.
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  It is a big, big destination for Australians.
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  is phenomenal.
• 27:25
  For those who may be interested, Gawick and it's just with the Kokoda Trail, it is a very tough trail.
• 27:32
  We already met people who were helicoptered out when we were in Mooresby.
• 27:39
  Their potassium levels went down to a point of being a problem.
• 27:43
  The other one we did specifically ask when we were in Wewack,
• 27:47
  to visit the final surrender site for the Japanese and that was sometime after the signing of the on the in Japan.
• 28:00
  So the Australians and there is a site there that explains how the final battle between the Australians and the Japanese went and your guide theoretically knows something about
• 28:13
  it.
• 28:15
  But there's also a really good site in Lillac.
• 28:18
  Yeah.
• 28:18
  So again, for those who are interested in World War II, is quite heavily Australia focused.
• 28:25
  But as you would have seen on the map I put up earlier, it was literally on our doorstep.
• 28:30
  it was vital to the Australians and in turn the allies.
• 28:34
  And again, the Kokoda Trail is an option for anyone listening that may like to do it.
• 28:38
  But as John's already mentioned, it's tough and people don't make it and I have to get flown out halfway through.
• 28:45
  I imagine that people were fighting a war over that mountain pass and that mountain range.
• 28:50
  It's impressive and lest we forget for all of our veterans.
• 28:56
  So you mentioned earlier, John and Peggy, that you're part of a group within your hometown foundation.
• 29:03
  Can you explain what the foundation is and then how that translated as to part of your trip or a core part of your trip when you went to Papua New Guinea?
• 29:12
  Well, we have, like in many communities in Canada, a community foundation.
• 29:17
  So you give money to the foundation and each year that foundation will allocate that money to local programs and services, but only based on the interest spent on the principal.
• 29:28
  So it acts in perpetuity.
• 29:31
  Within the foundation and our community, we've established an early literacy foundation so that we give our money to the foundation.
• 29:39
  manage it.
• 29:41
  we in turn recommend to where the interest payments for that year go to the programs.
• 29:47
  So we've taken early literacy as well to our travels.
• 29:52
  We, as I said, when we go to, I don't know what kind of travelers we are, but if we find that we can help fund a library and a school, we will when we're on a trip.
• 30:06
  And it's not, it's just something that we do.
• 30:09
  But on this trip here in Papua New Guinea, we specifically asked, how can we bring some educational supplies versus cash to local villages?
• 30:23
  And we asked the local tour operator to recommend to us what villages.
• 30:29
  And from that, part of our Papua New experience was built upon.
• 30:35
  OK.
• 30:35
  So when, within your foundation,
• 30:38
  back home.
• 30:39
  Like I'm sure it's not just you two, it's a group of people, as you mentioned, do you sort of request or bid upon where the funds go?
• 30:48
  I guess what I'm asking is why did the foundation allow this contribution to your particular travels?
• 30:55
  And I wasn't to your travels, but to the end goal of you donating to a tribe.
• 31:00
  Yeah, the foundation is actually separate from it's.
• 31:05
  think it's based upon an interest.
• 31:08
  was a teacher, an interest that we have in sharing what we have accumulated over time is in early literacy.
• 31:18
  It is a passion for us.
• 31:20
  So separately, we have a foundation in our hometown.
• 31:25
  And that's its focus.
• 31:28
  Second, and separate from that, when we travel, we have found that
• 31:34
  educate, we have found that when we go to some of countries where, as you said, it's a little rougher to travel to, there's a level of corruption in various levels of the
• 31:47
  politics, even in the education system.
• 31:51
  Ecuador, Bolivia, South Africa, they all had examples of this.
• 31:57
  So what we've, what we've discovered is if we can take not the cash, but if we can take
• 32:03
  the things that they need in some regard, then we do that.
• 32:08
  And so in Bolivia, we did the same, we buy the supplies in the country and take them to a remote area that we're traveling to.
• 32:18
  And we did that here in Papua New Guinea.
• 32:21
  We bought supplies in Mount Hagen and with the cooperation of the tour company, because that we had to fly.
• 32:29
  So with their cooperation, we were able to take these supplies.
• 32:33
  to a more remote area, we're fronting the cost to get supplies into a remote area.
• 32:40
  And those are supplies that they themselves have said, well, these are the things we need.
• 32:45
  And so then we took them to these on a dugout canoe for three days.
• 32:50
  We took them to these remote villages.
• 32:54
  In one case, the school was actually closed.
• 32:57
  There had been a flood.
• 32:59
  the people in the village still had to rebuild 30 homes.
• 33:03
  And there is no government support for that.
• 33:06
  they were rebuilding their homes first, of course.
• 33:10
  And then they would rebuild the part of the school that was damaged.
• 33:15
  Certainly things were damaged and they will hold on to those supplies.
• 33:19
  And note, you also need to take something for a little more fun, like a rugby ball or a soccer ball or something like that, along with, that's it, an essential school supply as
• 33:27
  well.
• 33:28
  The second village that we went to, their school was in operation and the kids came out to meet us.
• 33:36
  They stayed after school and I was about an hour after school that they stayed, the teachers and the kids, to meet us because although we were there, it was island time, so
• 33:48
  things moved slowly.
• 33:51
  And even when we took the supplies there, they had an issue between the
• 33:56
  tribes that were coming to this local area to go to school.
• 34:00
  One tribe owned the rugby field and one tribe sat where the school was.
• 34:05
  So they were having a discussion right now and they couldn't use the rugby balls because they couldn't use the rugby field just yet.
• 34:14
  So, know, it is just a very interesting place of course to, to visit.
• 34:21
  It sounds it.
• 34:22
  So I think one key thing here I'd like to bring up is that
• 34:26
  If any of our clients out there are travel partners, suggesting this to their clients about donating to a community anywhere in the world, please check first, first, just
• 34:36
  showing up with stuff because as Peggy's alluded to there, it could cause internal conflict.
• 34:44
  It might be the wrong stuff, stuff that's not needed.
• 34:46
  It's always best to ask and check first.
• 34:48
  It could be culturally insensitive to give things.
• 34:51
  People might not take it the way it was intended as well.
• 34:54
  So please do as John and Peggy and their foundation have done, just speak to your Go Way representative who will in turn speak to our ground operators to make sure that what you
• 35:03
  bring is appropriate, accepted, et cetera like that.
• 35:06
  please do if this is what drives you and I hope it does a lot of people out there, it's a fantastic thing to do.
• 35:13
  And I've done in the past with groups prior to my time at Go Way as well.
• 35:18
  And even so, like I was in the highlands of Peru when I did it, but
• 35:23
  up and you get, sounds like it's even more needed.
• 35:25
  So on that point, you mentioned that the tribes are sort of close together distance wise, but still very, very isolated, different languages, and they may not interact with each
• 35:36
  other a lot, if at all.
• 35:38
  So from an education point of view and your philanthropy work of taking supplies in questions for you, who are the teachers in these schools?
• 35:48
  Are they locals?
• 35:48
  Are they foreigners coming in and
• 35:51
  And it's extension to that because the languages are so endemic to each tribe is being taught in English.
• 35:58
  Like, can you explain how that works?
• 36:00
  The they're usually a local person that comes in reasonably local.
• 36:07
  as you said, the dialect makes a difference.
• 36:10
  They teach in Pigeon English.
• 36:14
  It's not a purest English.
• 36:18
  Our guide that took us along the sepia, he was self-trained.
• 36:23
  had spent, he had worked his way through up the channels in the industry because he was a very good listener and he kept trying to make himself better.
• 36:34
  And that seems to be part of what they will try to do.
• 36:38
  Those who want to succeed are trying to do it because they have that inner desire to do better at what they're doing.
• 36:46
  And
• 36:48
  So, his English was, it was actually very good, although heavily accented and you have to have it.
• 36:54
  You have to be a good listener yourself to work your way through that.
• 36:57
  Yeah.
• 36:58
  But they, I would say they're typically local and we, we, our guide son was going to school to be a teacher and he was coming back to his local area, his local tribe.
• 37:11
  they elementary schools will draw,
• 37:17
  the children in from a wide area.
• 37:22
  High schools are much less frequent and they are in larger centers.
• 37:29
  And so the children have to be set up in residences to go to high school and to go to college.
• 37:36
  They have to be in a residence away from their families.
• 37:40
  Right.
• 37:40
  So that's my next question.
• 37:41
  So you obviously mentioned they have elementary school.
• 37:45
  There is a high school option.
• 37:46
  Now someone wants to go to, not advanced, higher education, university college.
• 37:53
  Is that in the village or nearby, or do they have to go into somewhere like Port Moresby to go to university or even into Australia or somewhere nearby?
• 38:01
  Yeah.
• 38:02
  Yeah.
• 38:02
  A larger center.
• 38:03
  will not happen in the village.
• 38:05
  No.
• 38:06
  Okay.
• 38:06
  And their parents have to pay those children can't make much money at all.
• 38:11
  So the parents are trying to raise the funds.
• 38:15
  in whatever way they can.
• 38:17
  how would they, sorry, how would they raise funds if they're in the Hills, the highlands of Papua New Guinea?
• 38:24
  Cause it sounds again, very tribal, very in its way.
• 38:28
  how does a tribal family make money?
• 38:31
  Want to, and you did mention before they don't really use money.
• 38:34
  So on the flip side, how do they raise funds for things that are expected to be paid for university or healthcare for that matter, if, that comes into play.
• 38:45
  I think it's extremely challenging, every village you visit, the women will set out a blanket and they will show their craft, the things that they make.
• 38:58
  So they make such a little amount of money from those kinds of crafts, but that is a way for them to earn money.
• 39:08
  Secondly, we as a tourist are a source for them.
• 39:13
  I found them to be very generous with when you're in a village, they will change their attire to show you that, yes, we can dress this way.
• 39:25
  We don't necessarily dress like this all the time.
• 39:28
  We were in some villages that do still dress in the grass, et cetera.
• 39:32
  We can show you our traditional dress.
• 39:34
  We can show you how we typically still make our meals.
• 39:40
  We can show you how we do our crafting, how we weave our baskets, because all men and women do carry a crossover bag, which is typical of this culture and carries all those
• 39:50
  necessary things in it.
• 39:52
  That's something they make all the time, something that they will sell.
• 39:57
  So we, as the tourists, need to consider that we're a primary source for them.
• 40:03
  And I don't think that they make it an over...
• 40:08
  overtly, what would you say fake kind of tourist presentation?
• 40:14
  They, they're just they are living a history for us, we would call it history.
• 40:21
  When you go into the museum at Port Moresby, the things you see in the museum are the things that they are using day to day.
• 40:27
  Wow.
• 40:28
  So they are living their history.
• 40:30
  And just maybe some of the clothes and things they will change back to show you the more typical or they they will take from the
• 40:38
  the men's lodge, they will actually wear the body masks, the head masks, the things.
• 40:46
  They will take them, put them on and perform a ceremony for you.
• 40:50
  And then they go and they hang it back up inside the men's lodge because it's a living part of their history.
• 40:57
  So, Don, back to your question, how do they make money?
• 41:01
  I honestly can't tell you that I saw a lot of production of anything.
• 41:07
  And so I do not farming.
• 41:09
  No, no.
• 41:10
  Right.
• 41:12
  No.
• 41:12
  So I, I, I honestly can't say that I know myself how they make money.
• 41:19
  there is a few nickel and dimes, you know, some tourists come in and drop a few cents, in my view.
• 41:26
  but there is no simple, there is no industry structure to make money so kids can go to school.
• 41:34
  Wow.
• 41:35
  Yeah.
• 41:35
  That's.
• 41:36
  I guess it's fascinating to quote Peggy, it's basically a living history.
• 41:39
  They're not seeing a need for money because they're just living day to day.
• 41:43
  But again, it's creeping in that it's a good thing.
• 41:46
  The first thing is creeping in is education that to get educated, hopefully they're going to have a desire to want to do something.
• 41:52
  Not there's anything wrong with what they're doing, but you know, I don't want to say bigger and better, but you know, move beyond their village and maybe work in Port
• 41:58
  Wandsville or become a
• 41:59
  to a guy.
• 42:00
  Well, is a, there's interesting you raised that, there is a bit of a conflict.
• 42:06
  are some of the young people who want to move away and some of the older folk want them to, and if they move away to come back.
• 42:13
  so was a bit of, I, we, we ran into some 20 year old types that were visiting, but they prefer to be a tradesman in a larger center that takes two days to get to.
• 42:27
  but they talk to their moms and dads and their uncles.
• 42:31
  Well, they're concerned about the younger kids moving up.
• 42:35
  Right.
• 42:35
  Yeah.
• 42:35
  This is fascinating.
• 42:36
  Cause again, I want to pick up on the term Peggy is like a living history.
• 42:40
  I you were lucky enough, fortunate enough to be, or they're seeing that changing world for them that, you know, the old, the old ways are still being clung onto, but like all
• 42:51
  younger generations, they want something new and different, but it's, you know, beyond, Hey, I want to
• 42:56
  cell phone, they do want cell phones, but you know, I want this from a materialistic point of view too, they want a completely different lifestyle.
• 43:03
  So that had to be fascinating seeing that happening, albeit in a very short period of time happening in front of you.
• 43:12
  It's very confusing, not just fascinating because I find that they're living a subsistence level which we as North Americans call poverty.
• 43:25
  But the poverty, that's a judgment call.
• 43:29
  And I'm not judging them for saying that they're in poverty.
• 43:34
  Their existence is such and they manage quite well.
• 43:38
  the passion we have in education, it's confusing because education makes you want more.
• 43:46
  And where does that take you?
• 43:48
  And that takes them away from their history and their backgrounds.
• 43:54
  And I think that that's the challenge is that it is going to move them away from an existence.
• 44:02
  It's going to create that chasm between them, the people that are still living the village life and still subsistence and managing quite well and not seeing the need for those other
• 44:14
  influences.
• 44:16
  And yet they have a modern world, like Port Moresby is a modern city with
• 44:22
  thousands of people squatting on the outskirts of that city without any kind of services because they are looking for a more modern existence.
• 44:33
  The challenge is that the government is broke.
• 44:37
  It doesn't have any money.
• 44:39
  So I should say to Don that there is a big difference between the village life on the river and the cities that are in the uplands.
• 44:48
  So the cities in the uplands, you have access to
• 44:51
  Canadian mine operations west of where we are.
• 44:55
  So there's cash generated by that.
• 44:57
  They also have their own local economy things.
• 45:01
  Some of them build around beetle nuts of all things.
• 45:04
  If you can get a beetle nut up there, everybody's got to have a beetle nut.
• 45:10
  There are local economies.
• 45:13
  So they do their own thing.
• 45:16
  So is the country sitting on top of mineral deposit or anything like that?
• 45:20
  It is.
• 45:21
  Okay.
• 45:21
  So there is foreign investment.
• 45:22
  You do mention Canadian mining companies there.
• 45:24
  Yeah.
• 45:25
  China's there in a way.
• 45:28
  China's there as well.
• 45:29
  China's doing a lot of road work for the government.
• 45:36
  Yeah.
• 45:37
  Building bridges.
• 45:38
  Building bridges.
• 45:39
  Yeah.
• 45:39
  Okay.
• 45:39
  So there are, so there is some foreign investment and some development happening.
• 45:44
  Okay.
• 45:44
  That's well, I guess that's positive without getting into any sort of ulterior motives by then.
• 45:50
  Yeah, won't.
• 45:52
  Well, you're on an interesting topic.
• 45:56
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:56
  We again, we won't be political.
• 46:00
  we'll avoid the politics in this little podcast.
• 46:03
  Just a couple of questions that came off that conversation there.
• 46:06
  We mentioned making money.
• 46:07
  What is the currency in Papua New Guinea?
• 46:10
  Kina.
• 46:11
  So it's a local currency.
• 46:13
  It's based on a shell.
• 46:14
  And I think this very super large shell
• 46:19
  which they did trade for.
• 46:21
  And that's the basis of their money.
• 46:23
  you can see that you can see that in all the craft places.
• 46:30
  OK.
• 46:30
  But if you're so if you're looking to buy food or souvenirs, et cetera, you would use a local currency.
• 46:37
  Can you use can use Australian dollars?
• 46:39
  Can you use credit cards and debit cards in the city?
• 46:44
  You can in the city use debit and credit cards.
• 46:48
  But you need Kena as well when you're in the rural area because there are no systems in place.
• 46:55
  So if you want to tip a guy, then you need local currency.
• 47:04
  I really said they take local currency over Australian dollars or US dollars?
• 47:08
  For sure.
• 47:09
  Yeah.
• 47:11
  You're not finding US Australian dollars, least in the populations that we ran into.
• 47:19
  You need to have local Kina.
• 47:20
  So you have to go to, when you first get into the cities, you need to get to an ATM machine and get your cash.
• 47:28
  Get your cash.
• 47:30
  On that note of cash, what's the cost of living for tourists?
• 47:34
  Like is it an expensive destination to visit when you're on the ground?
• 47:38
  You want me to tackle that one?
• 47:39
  No, you can.
• 47:41
  was one of the, Papua New Guinea we found as one of the most expensive travel destinations.
• 47:47
  that we could have.
• 47:49
  I don't know if it's because of the type of travel we organized, but you'd be in the 2000 plus day Canadian for sure.
• 47:58
  Seriously.
• 47:59
  Well, again, I think.
• 48:01
  But he's having a small plane flight, cargo flight.
• 48:06
  Yeah.
• 48:06
  Okay.
• 48:06
  So you've to average that.
• 48:08
  Yeah.
• 48:08
  Yeah.
• 48:08
  Of course.
• 48:09
  And I was just, was about to, I was about to clarify John's statement there of the amount because of the type of travel you did.
• 48:14
  And it sounds like the type of the country Papua New Guinea is, but
• 48:18
  Before I jump back into that from like buying a meal or something like that buying a souvenir.
• 48:23
  was is that on par affordable cheap?
• 48:28
  Well for one when we travel like that we don't Buy too many souvenirs.
• 48:34
  Okay, but your but your leg your luggage is limited, you know And so when you're flying small it keeps that cost down because you you don't have any room to carry that and
• 48:49
  Usually the only place that we were
• 48:52
  We're not the kind of couple that goes out at night.
• 48:55
  That keeps us safe.
• 48:57
  We're not out for supper.
• 48:58
  We're not traveling around at night in the bigger centers.
• 49:03
  And one night, think we went to the mosquito, only one night did the mosquitoes in the entire trip send us to bed at 730.
• 49:11
  But that was- Sorry, on.
• 49:16
  So from a-
• 49:17
  from a social point of view now again, going to the highlands, of course, I know this wouldn't be applicable, but if you're in Port Moresby, you're doing the coastal and you're
• 49:23
  into diving and you're doing that type of thing.
• 49:26
  the time you're in the cities, what was the mix, I guess, one of a better term of foreigners in Papua New Guinea, like tourists, other tourists from the States, Australia,
• 49:36
  New Zealand, around?
• 49:38
  So I guess if you are into a nightlife, is there a nightlife to be had in the cities?
• 49:44
  Port Moresby, yes.
• 49:45
  Well, to be honest with you, I didn't see many tourists.
• 49:49
  You didn't?
• 49:50
  No.
• 49:50
  So we can say in Port Moresby, well, we met two Americans.
• 50:00
  Australians for sure.
• 50:01
  Well, they were doing a Cokoeva trail.
• 50:03
  But it's not, what we picked up was that after COVID, they are still recovering from COVID and then decline of the industry.
• 50:15
  And that has not, it has not come out.
• 50:18
  So we were in some big lodge resort types in, what's it called?
• 50:27
  Well, Kawhi was just the two of us.
• 50:31
  And in Mount Hagen, Ronan Lodge, there may have been, there's us too, and maybe another three, And that was it.
• 50:42
  There are the tourism ministry.
• 50:45
  is still recovering from COVID.
• 50:48
  Wow.
• 50:49
  Okay.
• 50:49
  So everyone out there booked people to Papua New Guinea, helped them out.
• 50:52
  I'm to back to the village visit for a minute.
• 50:56
  when you visited the villages, did you stay with the tribes overnight or was it like in a day visit?
• 51:02
  No, we stayed overnight.
• 51:03
  were in, they're trying to set up, a lodge, a guest house.
• 51:11
  So there's a couple.
• 51:12
  The entrepreneurial spirit is quite well in the life.
• 51:15
  So we had a couple individuals in each village and they had part, they had built a part of their lodge, been set up so that they could have separate rooms and that that could be a
• 51:29
  guest room.
• 51:30
  What they provide you with is a two inch foamy and a mosquito net.
• 51:35
  And that's what you get.
• 51:37
  It's very basic.
• 51:38
  Okay.
• 51:39
  the bathroom.
• 51:41
  the old house would be about 50 meters away where the crocodiles live.
• 51:46
  So, And you have a, as a pale and a scoop for a shower.
• 51:52
  Right.
• 51:54
  Okay.
• 51:54
  So, So just, just wrapping up here.
• 51:59
  Um, it's sound, well, it doesn't sound like it is a very rustic type of destination.
• 52:04
  It is very old school for that's my term.
• 52:07
  So, you know, back in the day,
• 52:09
  costs are up there because of the type of travel, at least in your case that you did, you know, with the small planes getting to the villages, private jets at times.
• 52:17
  So that's understandable from a cost point of view when you factor in how you're getting around.
• 52:21
  But that's also part that's also almost necessitated if you want to get into the highlands of Papua New because as you mentioned earlier on, there are no roads out there.
• 52:31
  The tribes are very basic, we discussed, you know, geographically somewhat close, but
• 52:38
  isolated in their cultural aspect, languages, et cetera.
• 52:41
  It's absolutely to me fascinating.
• 52:44
  I kudos to you for taking it on because it's, yeah, rough-t-tough-t travel without a doubt.
• 52:52
  as you mentioned, Port Moresby is their big city, but it's not what people may expect.
• 52:58
  We had a guide when we were traveling on the river who said to us when he first saw us,
• 53:04
  He thought, oh, this is not going to work because you can't, can't, we're not particularly young.
• 53:10
  And, um, he looked at us and he says, this isn't going to work, but he didn't say anything, but I am quoting him because at the end of the time with us, he did say to us,
• 53:20
  you've been our best clients.
• 53:21
  So for me so far.
• 53:23
  And I think part of that is cause we didn't complain.
• 53:27
  We go with what's there and make the best of where we are.
• 53:32
  And it's about, it's just being open-minded and learning what you can.
• 53:36
  And they always provided us with experiences that were astonishing.
• 53:42
  know, the cultural experiences that we had, just the two of us standing side by side with the mud man or the wig man or having a discussion about cannibalism or, you know, having
• 53:55
  our guide talk to us about being part of the Malpatribe.
• 53:59
  I mean,
• 53:59
  All of those were so personable because they were side by side.
• 54:04
  Yeah.
• 54:04
  And I think I'm going to speak personally here, but I think I can say on behalf of Goa, you two encapsulate what a real traveler should be.
• 54:14
  I don't mean a tourist.
• 54:15
  I mean a People are willing to truly push themselves from comfort levels, open their minds to different cultures at its base level.
• 54:27
  I mean that in a positive way.
• 54:29
  Obviously, you know, these tribes as you know, basically subsistent living at this stage.
• 54:34
  And again, to quote Peggy again, the living history is a thing that attracts you.
• 54:40
  Like, you know, I know most people want to get some of that, but I think that's the operative word often they'll travel and get a little taste of it.
• 54:47
  You guys are totally immersed yourself in what is to me an absolutely fascinating cultural experience and absolutely fascinating destination.
• 54:58
  And please, anyone out there listening, I highly recommend, I've again, I've been there technically, but for all intents and purposes, I haven't, but I'm completely inspired by
• 55:07
  John and Peggy's story today of, wasn't on my list of things to do.
• 55:13
  think I have to add it there now.
• 55:16
  It's amazing.
• 55:17
  So on that note, before we say goodbye, is there anything else, John or Peggy, you'd like to say or pass on to myself or to our listening audience about your experience in Papua
• 55:25
  New Guinea?
• 55:26
  Well, I think you have an excellent tour operator in Papua New Guinea.
• 55:30
  I'm going to put a plug in here for TNT tours.
• 55:33
  Go away, work with them very well to achieve our objectives.
• 55:39
  And we totally appreciate the planning that went into it.
• 55:45
  We're glad we could help.
• 55:47
  Peggy, anything you'd like to leave us with before we say goodbye?
• 55:52
  I think that I said that when you have to be open minded, you have to be patient and things will go wrong, especially when you go into the backwoods of any country, things
• 56:05
  will go wrong and just be prepared for that.
• 56:08
  then, you know, work it out.
• 56:14
  things go wrong and at the end of the day, everyone comes out happy, safe and sound.
• 56:17
  They are the best stories.
• 56:20
  that you'll pass on to your friends over the dinner table or at the pub.
• 56:25
  So on that note, I'd really like to thank John and Peggy for their time today.
• 56:29
  I really appreciate you passing on your experiences in Papua New Guinea.
• 56:32
  I also appreciate the sights and sounds that we put up over our visual podcast today.
• 56:39
  Anyone out there has any questions about Papua New Guinea, please reach out to your destination specialist in the South Pacific department here at Go Way.
• 56:48
  As John has said outright, our ground operators in Papua New Guinea are second to none.
• 56:52
  They will look after you.
• 56:54
  And as you've heard from John and Peggy's stories today and experiences today, and this is what GOA does and goes, one of the does the best in North America.
• 57:02
  We will customize the trip to what suits you.
• 57:05
  And as you've heard here, I think there's probably no better example of a customized trip than the trip that John and Peggy have taken into Papua New Guinea with all the little
• 57:14
  different logistics involve getting them from Port Moresby up to the highlands of Papua New Guinea to experience the local tribes there.
• 57:22
  So everyone, thank you very much for your time today.
• 57:24
  And again, once again, John and Peggy, thank you very much for your time.
• 57:27
  Thank you.
• 57:28
  Thank you.
• 57:43
  you