Latest / Mini Scroll / MINI TECH SCROLL: Apple posts TikTok Brainrot, AI Hiking Influencer stealing content, Meta acquires Moltbook + more

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MINI TECH SCROLL: Apple posts TikTok Brainrot, AI Hiking Influencer stealing content, Meta acquires Moltbook + more · Mini Scroll

• 0:00
  Hey everyone, and welcome to Mini Scroll, the daily Internet
• 0:03
  culture podcast. Bring me the biggest stories
• 0:05
  from social media. The creator economy.
• 0:07
  And the digital space? Every Monday through Thursday
• 0:10
  and sometimes Fridays. My name is Annabelle and I'm
• 0:13
  your Wednesday mini tech. Scroll host and also the deputy
• 0:16
  editor. Of the Australian youth.
• 0:17
  Digital. Media brand Centennial World
• 0:20
  Welcome back to Mini Tech Scroll for another.
• 0:22
  Week I hope you guys have had a good week so far.
• 0:25
  I don't have much to say. So we should just.
• 0:27
  Get right into the. Stories, because I do.
• 0:30
  You think today is a bit of a weird one?
• 0:32
  But before we do, please. Remember to rate, review and
• 0:35
  subscribe, and feel free to. Check out our Patreon if you
• 0:38
  are. Interested in more behind the
• 0:40
  scenes content of. 10 Eagle World, OK.
• 0:43
  My first. Story I have today is about.
• 0:45
  Apple's launch of a new MacBook called the MacBook Neo.
• 0:49
  So I don't usually. Like to cover new tech products
• 0:53
  on mini tech scroll because I don't really think that is the
• 0:55
  most engaging subject matter for a podcast format like you can
• 1:00
  easily go and read about the product, but I wanted to talk
• 1:04
  about the MacBook Neo because of the marketing campaign around it
• 1:08
  and all the. Discourse that it has.
• 1:09
  Caused online. So just in case you missed it,
• 1:12
  at the beginning of the month Apple announced the launch of
• 1:15
  the MacBook Neo. Which is billed as quote.
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  An all new. Laptop that delivers.
• 1:19
  The magic of a Mac. At a breakthrough price.
• 1:22
  So as you can probably gather from that, it is significantly
• 1:25
  cheaper than other Macbooks on the market and it does come in a
• 1:29
  range of new colors. Now, like I said, I don't really
• 1:32
  want to get into the. Details, but I will.
• 1:34
  Insert some pictures on screen, including some details about the
• 1:37
  product. Considering the lower price
• 1:39
  point, the MacBook Neo is definitely a good option for
• 1:42
  students and younger consumers who don't.
• 1:45
  Necessarily have the budget to. Drop upwards of 1K AUD on a
• 1:49
  laptop and it definitely seems like Apple is leaning into that
• 1:53
  with. Its social.
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  Strategy on TikTok. If you head over to Apple's
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  TikTok. Account at the moment they have
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  really started in embracing kind of nonsensical type content.
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  Not necessarily. The vibe of AI.
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  Generated brain rot, but kind of in a similar ballpark. 1
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  examples of the videos in question was actually about
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  limes, which I know sounds insane and it is, but I do
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  presume it's a reference to the new citrus.
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  Colorway, but it was. Still random nonetheless, and I
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  will. Describe the video for audio.
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  Listeners, but basically. It shows a.
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  Customized desktop background where folders have essentially
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  been made into limes and the audio.
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  Overlaid is. Talking about how much like I
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  love limes and in a similar theme they have even.
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  Posted Tik Toks of. Lemon and limes Facetiming each
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  other another. Popular video that caused a lot
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  of discourse was a video of a. Blush compact, which left users
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  questioning whether Apple was starting to release makeup.
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  But I do think it was just in reference to another one of the
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  colorways, which is pink. But aside from those few
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  examples. A lot of the.
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  Videos just kind of have that weird almost aesthetic.
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  Like random clips spliced together.
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  Kind of vibe. Like almost like.
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  A Hope core video, but not I don't know how to explain it
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  apart from that. So hopefully you pick.
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  Up what I'm putting down. So as far as the reaction to the
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  content that has been posted, first and foremost, many people
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  seem to be shocked that the comment section is left open,
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  which is something that Apple apparently doesn't usually.
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  Do, but apart. From that, so many users are
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  commenting, asking whether the account has been hacked.
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  Because it feels. Kind of random coming from a
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  brand like Apple. So it clearly.
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  Hasn't been hacked and this is just.
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  Part of the strategy. From the company to capture Gen.
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  Z and Gen. Alpha and encourage them to buy
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  the product. We've seen so many brands do
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  this by leaning into that kind of nonsensical AI brain rot Weld
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  of content and just kind of act chronically online.
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  I think obviously the most famous one as far as acting
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  chronically online is Duolingo, but there's also been Wendy's
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  obviously, and then not a Bada and Britta.
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  How fave has also? Have leaned into that brain rot
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  style content but obviously coming from a brand like Apple
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  which has been. Notoriously like super sleek.
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  And modern is definitely something different.
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  And it's especially interesting because Apple hasn't actually
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  changed its strategy on any other platforms, like Instagram,
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  for example, where this change on TikTok is clearly a concerted
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  effort to try and fit in with the culture on the.
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  Platform Joel Marlin. Arsen, A TikTok brand.
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  Strategist actually compared Apple strategy.
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  To something that a fashion. Brand would do where the tech
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  company. Is kind of showing up with quote
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  UN quote humor and he says that. Quote the cheapest products, get
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  the cheapest visuals. Apple just launched their
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  $600.00 MacBook Neo targeting Gen.
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  Z and Gen. Alpha on entry level budgets.
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  Apple realized this audience doesn't care about tech specs
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  like the pro users, instead Apple and marketing like a
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  fashion brand showing up with humor.
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  The cheapest product gets the cheapest visuals.
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  Notice how they deliberately left the comment section open,
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  which they never do on TikTok. They want you to lean into the
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  chaos. It's a 2.
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  Way channel, while many people are kind of praising the
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  strategy or just in shock, I have seen some.
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  Users be a little more. Critical of the decision that
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  have been made one takes our creator named Hannah who make
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  content around being a new grad engineer actually made a really
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  interesting point about how the MacBook Neo colorways common.
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  Colors that people especially. Young women have been requesting
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  for years and years. She notes that it seems to be a
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  trend in tech. Where all the most?
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  Powerful devices seem to be in boring colours and then the less
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  powerful products in more bright, fun colours.
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  And that is so true because. Why is the MacBook Pro?
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  I have a MacBook. Pro Why is?
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  It like only in silver. I want a fun coloured computer
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  and in her opinion she says that this.
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  Just tells her how. Big tech companies view women as
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  consumers. So I think we've all seen the
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  MacBook Neo, the cute tiny little nude cheap MacBook that
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  comes in the colors that we've been requesting for ages, like
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  baby pink. And this happens time and time
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  again when the powerful devices are boring ass colors.
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  And whenever they introduce fun colors that people request and
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  literally would sell out, it's always at the compromise of
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  like, it's worst tech frustrating because that shows
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  me that that's how these big tech companies view women as
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  consumers. They think that they can
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  compromise on those things and make a cheaper product and sell
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  tons of them because it's pink and we'll just want to snatch it
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  up. No, girl, I need a powerful
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  MacBook, OK? I need my MacBook Pro so I can
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  want my computer to be baby pink and I can want it to have a TB
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  of storage, 32 gigabytes of RAM. I don't understand why they have
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  to be mutually exclusive. And unfortunately, this
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  phenomenon slash approach just isn't new.
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  There's long been a saying in product design pink it and
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  shrink it, which is basically. The go to.
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  Approach when creating women's products.
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  The Guardian. Reported on this phenomenon
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  fairly recent actually. In regards to sneakers,
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  obviously that is not tech, but they did note the lack of sex
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  and gender specific designs where women's shoes are simply
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  based on designs catering to men and honestly everything.
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  Really. Is that?
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  Deep and the patriarchy just strikes again, because failing
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  to consider women in these design choices can also be
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  extremely dangerous. Like it's been well.
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  Established that women are significantly more likely to be
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  injured or killed in a car accident than a man, partly due
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  to. The fact that vehicle.
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  Safety testing traditionally uses male anatomy dummies and
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  obviously that is not all-encompassing.
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  I also remember during the height of the pandemic, there
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  was actually. Quite a lot of.
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  Discussion about PPE not fitting women or finding PPE that fit
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  women appropriately. So yes, like I said, everything
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  really is that deep. The next story I want to talk
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  about is another TikTok one, but I came across a creator named
• 7:54
  Trina Thomas who alleges that another.
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  TikTok creator. Is using AI edited versions of
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  her? Photos to build her.
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  Own influencing career So Trina is a Welsh travelling slash
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  hiking creator and she shares content from her trips abroad as
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  well as posting a little bit of fashion content and she
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  currently has just under 80K followers on the platform.
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  So she posted a. Video yesterday alleging that
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  quote someone is using my images on tik.
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  T.O.K to create a. Fake online AI persona.
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  I was literally. Just minding my business
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  scrolling on TikTok and a creator had tagged me to say
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  that someone is using an AI version of my photos to begin
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  with. I was like, I don't think that's
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  copying me and I kept scrolling and I was like, these are
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  literally my images with a different face.
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  She also did. Go on to include a couple of
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  comparisons between the creator and herself before adding that
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  she thinks that this AI generated influencer allegedly
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  is taking content from other. Creators as well as.
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  Other platforms. So the user.
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  In question is called Willow Trex and her earliest video on
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  her account on TikTok is from the 27th of.
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  February so fairly. Recently and she's also
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  connected an Instagram account to her Tiktok account and the
• 9:11
  earliest picture on that was from the 3rd of March.
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  So that is literally last week. So she's clearly.
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  Very new. Most of her content on both her
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  Tiktok and Instagram seem to be slideshows or dumps of.
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  Different selfies, hiking as well as flat lays of her gear or
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  her outfits which? It really doesn't make sense
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  because in the photo she's often wearing the outfits that are in
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  the flat. Lace so either.
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  She has a change of. Clothing, but it just.
• 9:39
  Kind of feels aesthetic and like unrealistic.
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  I will say that there. Is no AI generated note or
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  anything on her platform per what?
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  I could see so we. Don't know for sure whether this
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  is AI generated. But some.
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  Creators have pointed out various signs in her.
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  Pictures that look slightly sauce, so one.
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  Creator named Rach ended up making a green screen style
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  video on TikTok where she zoomed into.
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  Various details of her photos and show that they just like.
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  Don't look right and. Obviously, the major tells are
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  always. Hands, fingers and branding and
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  lettering and that. Is definitely what she.
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  Picked up on in this. Video What is?
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  Especially concerning to me. Though about this.
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  Account. Is that social?
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  Media users haven't really realized that there.
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  Appears to be some kind of level of AI generated content on
• 10:25
  Willow's profile. You can see this in the comment
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  section of. Rachel's video where so many.
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  People are like, Oh my God, I. Can't believe I fell.
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  For this and the same in Trina's video talking about how this
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  person is copying her allegedly, but another.
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  Layer to this that. Also concerns me is the.
• 10:41
  Fact that when you go to Willow's profile it links to a
• 10:44
  website called Adventure. Creators which seems to offer a.
• 10:48
  Course to build a. Following and an online presence
• 10:51
  and the. Course in question is called
• 10:53
  Quote Outdoor Creator. Blueprint and is currently
• 10:56
  priced at 39 AUD. On sale from 97 AUD and.
• 11:01
  According to the website, this is what the course contains.
• 11:04
  Quote a step by step guide showing you how to.
• 11:07
  Grow an adventure page on TikTok and Instagram by documenting.
• 11:10
  Your hikes travels. And outdoor experiences you
• 11:14
  don't need expensive. Gear just a phone.
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  A sense of adventure and the right system so.
• 11:19
  Clearly it. Doesn't indicate any.
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  AI usage but I. Do think it's?
• 11:24
  Very SUS that. This account suddenly pops up
• 11:27
  and now it is selling a random course.
• 11:29
  I will say though. That the About me section on the
• 11:32
  website seems to be from the perspective of.
• 11:34
  Willow, where she shares her story about how she.
• 11:37
  Started influencing and posting content online and.
• 11:40
  It says that she's. 20 years old and started to post content
• 11:43
  online after feeling. Really stuck in her.
• 11:46
  Job at a restaurant. Which I feel like is a pretty.
• 11:49
  Cliche story even though I'm sure many people experience
• 11:53
  that, but anyway. The reason that I.
• 11:55
  Wanted to cover this story isn't just because Willow seems to be
• 11:59
  an AI generated influencer but it is just another reminder.
• 12:03
  Of how AI is. Constantly plagiarizing off real
• 12:06
  people and using their likeness and that can be very upsetting
• 12:10
  and concerning, but also. With Willow in particular.
• 12:14
  And the. Fact that a course.
• 12:15
  Is linked, it just. Is another way for creators to.
• 12:18
  Scam audiences and they are often praying on the vulnerable
• 12:22
  here especially. When you look to.
• 12:24
  Willow's about section and she's talking about how she feels
• 12:26
  traps like I'm sure so many. People feel like that.
• 12:28
  And we've already had so many conversations about how it's
• 12:31
  already a scam when real life influences.
• 12:33
  Cell courses like this. So this is just quite literally
• 12:36
  another level. My next story for today is kind
• 12:39
  of crazy, but I wanted to talk about how an.
• 12:41
  AI startup is low key feuding. With a tech publication.
• 12:45
  So the AI. Startup I'm talking about is
• 12:48
  clearly and it was founded. Last.
• 12:50
  Year and it essentially. Offers real.
• 12:52
  Time AI assistance during meetings, interviews, and calls,
• 12:56
  whether that be notes in real time or even answers and.
• 13:00
  Advice so it first. Started gaining viral.
• 13:03
  After it was billed as the AI tool that can help you quote UN
• 13:06
  quote. Cheat on anything and.
• 13:08
  Also because its Co founder and CEO Roy Lee has become quite
• 13:13
  notorious, especially after he went viral after.
• 13:16
  Revealing that he was suspended by Columbia University after he
• 13:20
  and his Co founder developed. This tool to cheat on job
• 13:23
  interviews for. Software engineers So the drama
• 13:27
  around Roy Lee has started up again after feuding with
• 13:31
  TechCrunch. So basically this all started.
• 13:34
  Last year, when Roy. Lee told the publication.
• 13:37
  That the. Startup had reached.
• 13:38
  Quote approximately 7 million in annual recurring revenue and
• 13:42
  then last week? A Twitter user took.
• 13:45
  A screenshot. Of the article that.
• 13:47
  TechCrunch published. On this topic and.
• 13:49
  Basically questioned the accuracy of Roy Lee's claim of
• 13:54
  the $7,000,000. The user wrote quote.
• 13:56
  This must have been a. Straight up lie, right?
• 13:58
  So Roy Lee then? Quote tweeted this post.
• 14:02
  To try and offer some. Clarity, so he attached.
• 14:05
  Some graphs and wrote quote kinda.
• 14:08
  Here's our stripes from June 2025.
• 14:10
  Got a random? Cold call from some woman asking
• 14:13
  about numbers and told her some BS Did not expect an article.
• 14:16
  About it. This is the only blatantly
• 14:18
  dishonest thing I've said publicly online, so this is my
• 14:21
  formal retraction tech crunch FOID I find the use of.
• 14:26
  FOID here to be. Kind of confronting because it
• 14:29
  does originate from in cell circles and community.
• 14:33
  And for those who don't know, it's a slang.
• 14:37
  Derogatory. Term that is shortened from
• 14:40
  famoid. Which is.
• 14:41
  A portmanteau between female and humanoid.
• 14:44
  And it is a term that is kind of.
• 14:46
  Used to completely reduce. Women to an object, and it kind
• 14:49
  of implies that women aren't really human.
• 14:51
  Aside from that, there was more back and forth between Roy Lee
• 14:54
  and TechCrunch. So TechCrunch later.
• 14:57
  Published an article with the headline quote.
• 14:59
  Clearly, CEO Roy Lee. Admits to publicly lying about
• 15:03
  avenue numbers last year in it the Journalist.
• 15:05
  Julie Bought alleges that his post misinterprets the back
• 15:09
  story of how the previous article.
• 15:11
  Came to be in response to him saying that it was a random cold
• 15:14
  call that. Call occurred because clearly
• 15:17
  his public. Relations representative emailed
• 15:19
  TechCrunch and offered to make Lee.
• 15:21
  Available for a story. On Friday, June 27th. 2025 at.
• 15:25
  8:38 AM. Cluley's.
• 15:28
  PR person sent an e-mail to TechCrunch reporter Marina
• 15:31
  Temkin that said, quote, I'd love to arrange an interview
• 15:34
  with Roy. Whether for a deeper.
• 15:36
  Dive into Cluley's next phase or a fresh angle on his vision.
• 15:40
  We'd be happy to make it happen. Which is so tea.
• 15:43
  TechCrunch really came with the receipts, but this clearly
• 15:46
  angered. Roy Lee a little bit.
• 15:48
  Because he responded again in a very intense video on Twitter
• 15:52
  and I'll insert part of it now. Hello Techcrunchfloyds and
• 15:55
  Moyds, there's a recent article about me that I want to address.
• 15:58
  But first, let's do a quick recap of Roy Lee history.
• 16:01
  Since I left school no more than two semesters ago, I've gotten 2
• 16:04
  startups to do millions of dollars in revenue each, became
• 16:06
  the most well known face in all of technology under 25 years
• 16:09
  old, got billions of views across all social media
• 16:11
  platforms, and I handwrote the growth playbook that every
• 16:14
  single YC startup right now is copying.
• 16:16
  We've never had a down month included history and today we're
• 16:18
  fucking profitable. But I guess it's time for
• 16:20
  another article about Roy. Fun fact to all you tech croids,
• 16:23
  did you know you guys have more mentions of Roy Lee on your site
• 16:26
  than fucking Jeffrey Epstein? I hope you guys know that you
• 16:29
  are single handedly responsible for the biggest media cover up
• 16:31
  in all of modern history. But I guess it's not tech news
• 16:34
  that every tech billionaire is a satanic child eating murderer.
• 16:37
  Instead, let's write the 12th article about Roy getting his
• 16:39
  numbers fractionally wrong two months after he launched the
• 16:42
  product. So yes, I hope you can gather.
• 16:45
  What I mean by it feeling very intense.
• 16:48
  I feel like I'm being yelled at. I mean, I guess we kind of what,
• 16:51
  but it also feels. Very chronically online, and not
• 16:54
  necessarily in a good way. It feels almost.
• 16:56
  Rage, baby, which I. Guess makes sense.
• 16:58
  Because Broy Lee is. Very chronically online he is 22
• 17:01
  to 23 so. He would be very.
• 17:03
  Tapped into this space. But apart.
• 17:05
  From this, Ryan Broderick in his coverage of the situation
• 17:08
  actually made another interesting point as to how this
• 17:10
  kind of relates to Internet culture and it came back.
• 17:13
  To this quote tweet. That an Angel investor.
• 17:16
  Left where they. Asked when Roy will live stream
• 17:19
  to Which Ryan Broderick? Wrote quote.
• 17:21
  That last part is what? Stood out to me.
• 17:23
  It seems incredibly clear that silicon.
• 17:25
  Valley elites are pushing. Reaction Gen.
• 17:27
  Z hustle Bros and looks maxes to live stream IE.
• 17:31
  Clavicular. And this is just more.
• 17:33
  Proof. I don't think we've really.
• 17:34
  Covered clavicular on mini scroll on mini tech scroll.
• 17:38
  I know I have mentioned it in the newsletter.
• 17:40
  But he has been. Going super viral recently
• 17:43
  especially. After the whole clavicular.
• 17:45
  Getting frame mugged by an ASU frat later moment.
• 17:48
  If you don't know what that is like, honestly, don't worry.
• 17:50
  About it, but while this has. Become quote UN quote funny.
• 17:54
  It's not lost on me that we are normalizing manosphere creatives
• 17:59
  and incel related language and we even saw this in the exchange
• 18:03
  with Roy. So yes, just another thing to be
• 18:07
  concerned about, but I'm definitely curious to hear what
• 18:09
  you guys think about all of this.
• 18:11
  OK, let's move on from all that because I also have an update
• 18:15
  that I want to share on Malt Book, which is the social media
• 18:18
  platform that is built exclusively for AI Agent.
• 18:21
  So I did cover the launch of. Malt book around a month ago,
• 18:25
  but if you missed it I will give a quick summary.
• 18:28
  Here so malt book. Kind of has a similar feel to.
• 18:32
  Reddit, where it bills itself as quote.
• 18:34
  The front page of the Internet and.
• 18:36
  That is quote. Built for agents by agents, so
• 18:39
  humans are allowed to be on it, but only to observe in theory.
• 18:44
  And when Malt Book first launched in its communities,
• 18:47
  which are essentially subreddits, the agents were
• 18:49
  allegedly making their own language and even their own
• 18:53
  religion. And yeah, that went pretty
• 18:56
  viral. People were also.
• 18:57
  Really interested in how this whole platform came to life and
• 19:02
  it. Was powered by the.
• 19:04
  Open source AI assistant Open Claw, which was formerly known
• 19:07
  as Malt. Bot which has also.
• 19:09
  Been making the rounds in tech circles recently.
• 19:12
  Having said that, their malt book.
• 19:13
  Had a lot. Of controversy around it falsely
• 19:16
  because many people felt like this was super dystopian.
• 19:19
  But also because. There were major security risks
• 19:21
  that later came to light. Which have.
• 19:23
  Reportedly been fixed aside from that many.
• 19:26
  People were also. Convinced that it wasn't.
• 19:28
  Actually AI agents. On the platform that it was
• 19:30
  humans cosplaying as AI agents. And yes, I did cover that in my
• 19:35
  original episode. So feel.
• 19:37
  Free to go check. It out if you want some more
• 19:39
  context on that. Anyway, that brings us to the
• 19:41
  news around Malt Book and that is that.
• 19:44
  Meta. Will be acquiring the platform.
• 19:47
  So this was first reported by Axios.
• 19:50
  And it was revealed that the deal would be bringing malt
• 19:53
  books creators into Meta's Super Intelligence Labs, which is
• 19:57
  Meta's division. That is really focused.
• 20:00
  On accelerating the development of.
• 20:02
  AGI, which is artificial. General Intelligence.
• 20:04
  This kind of seems like it's just the latest evolution.
• 20:07
  In the race between big tech companies to snap up new AI
• 20:12
  talent and technology, especially since recently open.
• 20:15
  AI hired the creator of. Open Claw.
• 20:17
  Which is obviously what Malt Book was powered through.
• 20:20
  At this stage, it's definitely too early to say what.
• 20:23
  Exactly will happen with malt book whether it will stay the
• 20:26
  same. Whether it will fold but?
• 20:28
  I thought it was interesting to see Meta jump on the bag wagon
• 20:31
  and essentially endorse infrastructure that separates AI
• 20:34
  from humans in the digital space in this.
• 20:36
  Way but I guess. The acquisition is also meta
• 20:40
  procuring the data from notebook, which might be useful
• 20:43
  down the line. I have seen Reddit users note
• 20:46
  that this makes sense. With the way meta.
• 20:48
  Treats AI and leans into. AI bots, especially when.
• 20:52
  They launched, I can't remember if it was last year or the
• 20:53
  before, but they launched AI generated bot accounts that
• 20:57
  basically were managed by the platform and were not received.
• 21:00
  Well, but yes. The MULT book news continues to
• 21:02
  fascinate me even though I am scared.
• 21:05
  My last thing that I wanted to mention this is.
• 21:07
  A very quick story, just. Kind of the headline, but I
• 21:10
  wanted to mention that Anthropic has.
• 21:12
  Officially sued the US. Government I don't want to get
• 21:14
  into this too much since I did cover this whole thing last
• 21:17
  week, but the US government and Anthropic have essentially been
• 21:20
  feuding for a while now about how the federal government uses
• 21:24
  their. Tools.
• 21:25
  Anthropic basically didn't want. The military to have.
• 21:29
  Unfettered. Use of their tools where because
• 21:31
  of this. Anthropic was essentially
• 21:32
  blacklisted and defined. As a supply.
• 21:35
  Chain risk, which is. Usually a title that is used.
• 21:39
  For foreign adversaries when they pose a national.
• 21:41
  Security risk. So this was.
• 21:43
  Obviously kind of unusual. But early this week.
• 21:46
  Anthropic filed a lawsuit against the US government over
• 21:49
  these claims, saying that the government was kind of
• 21:52
  overextending and that it is violating First Amendment
• 21:55
  rights. Well, that is.
• 21:57
  Everything from Mini. Tech scroll today I.
• 21:59
  Really hope you guys enjoyed. I feel like.
• 22:01
  These stories were a real. Mix of Internet culture and
• 22:04
  tech. Which is always a little.
• 22:05
  Bit of fun. I actually won't speak to you
• 22:08
  next. Week because we have the whole
• 22:10
  week off the pod, but Lauren will.
• 22:12
  Speak to you guys tomorrow and there's also a new episode of.
• 22:16
  Touchgrass to check out today. Thanks for listening.
• 22:19
  Bye. Centennial World Podcast Network
• 22:21
  operates on Gadigal land. We would like to acknowledge the
• 22:24
  Gadigal of the Eora Nation, the additional custodians of this
• 22:27
  land, and pay our respects to elders both past and present.