Latest / The You Project / #1912 Rejection, Recovery and Reinvention - Dee Dee Dunleavy

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#1912 Rejection, Recovery and Reinvention - Dee Dee Dunleavy · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Get a your bloody superstars, Welcome to another and Storming
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: and the Youth Projector's HAPs I'm excited. I'm excited because
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't have to do any prep. I didn't have
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: to do any research. I didn't have to put on
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: a party dress. I've got no fucking lippy or makeup
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: because I've got a long time friend who I haven't
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: seen for a long time. So I'm a shit friend.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: But I'm trying to rekindle the relationship with your help listeners.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: So hi, dd oh.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: That's so hurtful. You know, I carry a picture of
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: you in my wallet every day. I like you.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: That's lovely what you just said, because you know, I
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: do various interviews and media appearances and stuff, and I'm
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: a frantic prepper. I like to be over prepped for everything.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: But today I was genuinely just feeling excitement, zero prep,
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: just the thought of talking to you. I feel safe
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: in your hands, So don't let me down.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, and we'll do a podcast. Also, I mean, I
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: think like you know me. I know you right, You're
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: a little bit more You're a bit more organized, a
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: bit more pedantic than me. But I don't think you're
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: not particularly OCD, are you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I mean that shounds No, I'm just so organizer.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So whereas I it depends who
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: it is. Like if I'm talking to somebody that I mean,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I've literally I've told you, We've done nearly two thousand
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: of these. I've had some conversations with people. And about
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: five minutes in, like, I had a conversation with this
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: guy who's maybe the smartest person in the world. His
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: name is Professor Ahmi Goswami. Right, is this beautiful Indian academic,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: spiritual teacher, guru, Like he lives at the intersection of
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: academia and research and wisdom and spirituality and the soul
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: and the He's like, and I'm talking to him, and like,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: this is not even me fucking around being funny. Five
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: or six minutes in, I'm thinking to myself, I'm literally
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: too dumb to have a conversation with this person. I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know, I don't even know what
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: to fucking ask him. I like, And so I said,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: so I got about you know, I don't think I'm
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a complete dummy, but compared to him, I was a
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: fucking yaka, Right, And I said to him, Hey, prof,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I've got to admit something. And he goes, what you know,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: what's that, Craig? You know? And I said, I think
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I'm too stupid to have a conversation with you. And
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: he was so sweet and so nice, and he said,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: somebody who's stupid wouldn't say that. I'm like, well, maybe,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: but have you ever had a moment on an interview
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: where you've gone, fuck, I'm out of my depth or
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know where to go?
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Well before I answer that, you've got a hell of
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: a potty mouth on you, Craig Harp, But where did
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: that come from? Didn't used to swear that proper lady
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: like me back in the day.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: What your answer to him? Your response to him?
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: And I'm not going to listen to your response about
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: having a potty mouth because I see you having a
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: sip of water and I know you're watching you.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: You know you know you've turned it wrong. No, seriously,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I swear like a wolfing.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: I think your response to him was exactly what I
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: would have done. And you've always got to remember that
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: you're probably not the dumbest person in the room, but
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: if you are, there's an opportunity to learn so don't
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: don't think of it in and I'm not calling you vain,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: but don't think of it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Oh everyone's going to think I'm done because I can't
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: keep up with this guy.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: You have to look at it as an opportunity to
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: learn something, and you won't learn anything if you don't
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: put your hand up and say, I actually didn't really
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: understand your answer just then, or I'm not keeping up
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: with you. Can you please tell me? And that's where
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: you that's where you're going to learn something. And you
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: can almost bet that eighty ninety percent probably more of
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: the people listening are thinking, oh, I'm so glad he
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: asked that because I wasn't following either.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. It's like one of
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: my kind of rules is hang out with people who
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: drag you up, you know, like when I'm training, like
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: the guy that I've been training with for the last
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: fifteen years is better than me, stronger than me, you know,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: more gifted genetically than me. And I'm like, it's great
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: because I'm never winning with him. Not that it's a comp,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: but it's kind of a comp. But I'm never winning
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: right now. I'm always coming second. But what it does
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: is being with and whether or not. That's like I
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: told you just before we went live. I'm doing my
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: PhD at Monash and it's at this in this lab
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: called brain Park. What a great name, hey, brain Park.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: So it's the Neuroscience Neuropsychology Laboratory. And when I started
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: their dd oh my god. It's like going to a
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: country where you don't speak one word of the language
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: everyone else does and you're like, oh, by the way,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I'm a hundred years old.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: Fuck.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that especially when you get older,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: right you and I are about the same age. When
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: you get older and putting yourself in a situation where
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: you've got to keep learning and keep developing, and.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: I think, sorry, I've talked over you. I can't help
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: myself and get over excited. I also think a lot
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: of people we feel inadequate for some reason I don't know,
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: and it could be to do with social media, that
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: we're constantly comparing ourselves to what we see and hear
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: of other people and wondering are we up to scratch?
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Are we're going to be liked as much? And this morning,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: actually I had to put I don't need to share
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: the deep details of what it was, but that it
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: was two people I had to put in touch with
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: each other, both of whom in their particular fields are
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: absolute leaders and pillars and highly respected people. And when
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: I said to one, hey, you know, you're okay to
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: make a call to the other person, one of them
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: sent me a thing saying, Oh, I'm having imposter syndrome.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know that I'm up to the other person's
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: level to speak to them.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: And you know, it just it surprised me.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Because it was somebody who I respect and defer to
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: their great knowledge of.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Their particular topics.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: So I think that just tells us even the most
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: successful people are probably thinking that they're not as good
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: as the person next to them.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just human nature, I.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Think one I totally agree. I think even more than that, maybe,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: like some of the most successful in inverted commas from
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: the outside looking in, some of the most successful people
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: that I've chatted with or mentored or coached or met
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: or whatever more insecure than the average.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: And it also comes back to what is success.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: I was listening to a podcast the other day called Heavyweight,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: and it was a story about a guy who was friends.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: With you know, Moby, and I don't know how to
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: describe him.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Is he a rapper, a musician, Moby who was pretty
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: successful in his eye right, And this guy knew him
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: when he was young.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: And this guy had a.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: Set of CDs, told you how long ago it was
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: of gospel music, you know, music that was recorded in
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: the Deep South, and he gave those CDs to Moby,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: who then sampled music from it and made big hits
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: from it. And this guy was like, I'm not asking
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: of the credit, I just want my CDs back. Anyway,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: they tracked down Moby and he's still very friendly to
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: this guy. And part of this guy's issue was that
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: he felt as though he was doing an ordinary job
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: and that everyone in his life, including his childhood friend Moby,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: had completely surpassed him. And so eventually tracked down Mobe
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  Speaker 3: and this guy sits with him and talks to him,
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  Speaker 3: and Moby says, the most lonely and the most flat
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: he ever felt in his life was when he was
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: in this extraordinary hotel room waiting to go out on
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: stage at the Grammys and receive all the awards in
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: the world, and everyone's fawning all our room, and your
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: great mate and he went back to this hotel room
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: and he said he just walked around. I think he
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: maybe said he cried. He was alone. He just felt
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: so lonely. So my point being that everyone else watching
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: and seeing him and knowing his name would think, wow,
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  Speaker 3: that guy's an incredible success, and yet he inside himself
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: was just thinking what is this? You know, what what
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: am I measuring? How my happiness is not great? What
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: am I getting from this?
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: That is? Okay? So we're going to have a good chat, right,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: So I love this shit, right. I talk about what
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: what is success a lot, and it's like, obviously success
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: is different things for different people. But yeah, it's so
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: true that you can be in a crowd and lonely,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: or you can be totally alone and not lonely. You know,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I live by myself and people like, don't you get lonely?
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: And I go, I actually don't get lonely because when
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you know, within reason, whenever I want to talk to
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: someone or have a coffee with someone, or you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I'm always doing this. I'm talking to people every day,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: I'm having meetings. You know, there's a lot of interaction.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: But then also it's my personality that I'm kind of
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: quite good on my own, but for a lot of
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: other people, my life would be intolerable for them based
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: on how they work. And it's like, you think about
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: your job for most of your life, being on air,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: listened to by hundreds of thousands of people over the years,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: millions and millions of people, and the MIC's on, and
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: you're on air and be funny, be amusing, be entertaining,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: creating engagement, you know, like build rapport, and now you
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: finished like you could perform under a level of pressure
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: that most people couldn't deal with and you were in
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: your element. But for someone else, your job would have
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: been a fucking nightmare.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well that comes back to the prep thing. I
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: was made sure I was over prepped. But this again
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: comes back to the thing of success, because if you
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: just look at the data, by the measurement that we
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: can look at of the figures, I was a success.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: I was number one in my time slot, and yet
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: the management and for people who aren't familiar with me,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: I've worked in radio for close to forty years and
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: was hosting an afternoon talk show on three OW, which
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: is a.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Talkstation in Melbourne, and.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Doing well at it, Like It's taken me a long
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: time to actually I'm very bad at singing my own praises,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: but I've had to learn how to do that to
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: actually state as fat here's what I achieved. Anyway, I
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: achieved number one status, which was great. Yeah, and yet
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: management still turned to me and said that they weren't
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: renewing my contract. So even though I had what probably
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: appeared to be success, it wasn't enough to keep me
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: in the job that I loved and lived for. So again, like,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: what is success? How do you measure? Where is it
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: you're going? It's like, this is a stupid example, but
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: in Bridget Jones's diary, she's got this goal weight, you know,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: she diets and diets and diets and all the wrong
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: things she does to get herself to a goal weight.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: And she wakes up the next morning where she's hit
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: her goal weight and she's like, oh, everything's the same.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: I still don't have the man that I want, and
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: like nothing's different. So how do we all know what
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: we're aiming for?
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I think there's this dichotomy between our external world. You know,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: what people see situation, circumstance, environment, brand, career, accolades, trophies, Grammys, money,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: you know, qualifications, podcast numbers, you know, all of that
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: shit that everyone's aware of, and we somehow correlate all
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: of those three dimensional, physical, visible things that the world
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: can pay attention to, we equate that with success. But
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: as as you and I both know, you can be
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: succeeding in inverted commas and miserable and lonely and disconnected
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and medicated for anxiety and depression. Right, so, I think
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the dichotomy is like for me, especially the last six
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: years with my research and beyond that just because I'm curious,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: but it's like what needs to be happening in my
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: internal world for success, Like what's the you know, psycho logical, emotional, sociological,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: spiritual in a working of success, Like because you can
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: be in what seems to be a successful life like
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: from the outside looking in success, but the inside out
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: experience might be trauma or loneliness or sadness despite your
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: nice house and your nice bank balance.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Well, it's something that I've had to really focus on because, like,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: losing that job really hit me hard, and so it
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: forced me to first of all, just stop, take a breath,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: try and recover from the stress and that's a whole
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: separate story that I've been interested to ask you about
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: and dealing with stress, but then thinking.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: And sorry to like go all hairy theory on you,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: but I think you're probably up for.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: The conversation, but actually thinking what am I doing on
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: this plan and what is my point of being here?
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: And what do I want from it?
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: And it honestly, it sounds it's like a cliche, but
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: it comes back to all of those very basic things.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: The love of my husband, who I've been with for
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: many many years, like his love and my love I
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: think deepened because he supported me so much through that.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: The love of my children, the love of my family,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: that's probably my number one.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Thing in life. The realization that my friends are like this.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Giant blanket that's kind of in that next layer out
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: beyond family, and that they are so important. It's like
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: you may not speak to you, I haven't spoken to
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: you for a long time, and yet I feel a
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: friendship from you, like to know that you've got friends
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: who love and support you. And then there's all the
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: extra things. You start to think to yourself, you know,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: what can I do for pleasure each day? My pleasure
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: is going for a long walk every morning. And you know,
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: I'll sound like a crazy hippie, but just to be
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: amongst trees and to be walking along next to the
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: river in the direction that the water is flowing, that
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: somehow energizes me. I love to go out into my
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: garden and plant things and grow them. I've got chickens.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: I love to watch them running around the garden like
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: I derive so much pleasure from those simple things. I
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: love to cook a beautiful meal for my husband when
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: he comes home and we enjoy that together. Those things
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: that are so simple that anyone can have. Those are
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: the things that nourish me and make me feel energized.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: And come back to that word again, I feel successful
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: in my life because I am lucky enough to have
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: all of those things in my life.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Can I ask you a question?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: So when I lost my job, it was quite well, look,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: it made headlines and it was a bit of a splash,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: and I literally retreated into a hole in my home.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: I didn't leave the house. I was humiliated and devastated
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: because it was what I loved doing. And I would
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: feel this stress that kept me awake for quite a
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: few nights but well, you know, you wake in the
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: night and your stomach sinks again. You know you've forgotten
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: that something bad has happened, and then your brain brain
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: It's like when your footy team loses, you know, and
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: you wake up the next morning, Oh yeah we lost.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: So I was having that the whole time.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Oh please, I still love them, even though they break
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: my heart all the time.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: But I would get this waves of stress.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: And you know that expression, you know you shit yourself,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: but there isn't There is a feeling and I don't
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: mean I shap myself, but there's a feeling where it
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: sort of washes over you and you feel it go
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: right to your fingertips. And I remember thinking to myself,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: this can't be good for my physical body. This is
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: not good for me to have. Whatever it is, it's
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: rushing through me.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: I've never been a drug taker, but I imagine when
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: drug takers take a shot of something, it's that feeling.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: It will literally, you know, it makes your stomach drop,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: It makes you.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: Feel like you want to rush to the toilet, It
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: makes your fingers tingle.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: How do you get rid of that?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Craig, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So let me. Can I just
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: come from a few angles and then if I don't
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: tick the right box, let me know. And I'm glad
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: you opened the woo woo door, because I think I've
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: been kind of successful. You've been kind of successful. Depends
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: on how you know, Like in my career, I've done
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: pretty well, you've done pretty well. Go us. Does that
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: mean you and I are going to be happy and
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: never anxious? And that doesn't mean that at all? We could,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you know. So one doesn't always equal the other, you know.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: But that's how like you and I grew up in
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: a collective culture and mindset that said, hey, Craig and
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: d D. Success is about all that shit that everyone
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: can see, right, and you tick the box and you
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: get the right weight, and you make the right money,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: and you climb the right ladder and you drive the
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: right car and you're mixing the right and all of
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: that and then you're s ccessful. And then as you know,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: your Bridget Jones what's her name, Bridge of Jones reference,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: it's like she woke up, she was in the dream body,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: and she was still probably lonely and disconnected and insecure
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and all of those things. So one doesn't equal the other.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: But I think what happens part of the So you're
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: in radio, you're well known, you're flying, people love you,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: you're show's rating, it's ass off. You're good. You're really
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: fucking good at what you do. And that's not accolades,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: that's just data, Like we can literally prove statistically that
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you're good. Right, So that's not even that's not even
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: an idea or a suggestion. That's just like, well, can
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: we look at the can we look at the numbers?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Can we look at the ratings? We sure can't. Okay,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: she's on top. Well, she's fucking good. So that's you know.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: But then one of the challenges for us is when
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: you're really good at something, you have your sense of
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: self intertwined with that thing that you do. Yes, so
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: it becomes part of your identity and you're you're in
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: that I am it's an im statement. I am a broadcaster,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I am a journalist, I am I am I am.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: And then somebody takes that away from you when you
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: weren't expecting it to go, and then you don't know
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: who the fuck you are because if I'm not that
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: who I am? Who am I? So that can be
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: part of it where who you are is intertwined with
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: what you do. And so one of the challenges from
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: a my PhD is largely about self awareness, but it
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: is trying to know who you are and understand who
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: you are beyond what you do or what you look like,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: or where you live, or what you have or what
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: people think you all the shit that you are not.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Like you have a body, and you have a brand,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: and you have a brand, and you have a car,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: and you have a husband, and you have a track record.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: You have all these things, but you're not any of that.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: We need to figure out where's DD beyond all of
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the shit that she's not. And this is a little
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: bit you know, woo woo, you open the door, So
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I blame you. This is a little bit eckhart Toll,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: who says, I.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: That's victim blaming.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Craighatha, I mean says, I'm the awareness of what I'm
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: not right, and that's kind of I'm the observer, like
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that's that heightened, elevated version of me seeing the me
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: that operates in the world. And so then back to
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: your So there's that and you and I have seen that.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: You know a lot of footballers now you and I
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: know footballers who have gotten the ass mid career what
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: we thought was mid Korea, and then capitulated emotionally, mentally,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: socially where some and of course we're not going to
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: mention any names, but have gone from flying, making lots
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: of dough, playing on the MCG, being very well known
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and doing well in that context, and then their life
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: falls apart on some level because they weren't equipped or
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: skilled or prepared for anything beyond football. Right, So there's
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: that there's a trying to figure out who we are.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: And I think that when you get the sack, or
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: when there's a big life change, you kind of do
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: get to that what the fuck actually matters? Like what
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: is really you know? I've got this lady who was
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: like my second mom. I grew up with her. I
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: had obviously my mum, but this lady who's my mum's
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: best friend, who was very much my second mom. And
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: she passed away just before New Year, and I went
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: into hospital. She was a day or two away from
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the end, and I sat with her. Her name's Ray,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and I sat with her and there was just me
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: and her in the room, and she was holding my
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: arm and I was holding her, and in that moment,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is what matters, Like all my bullshit,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: all my hey, how many likes have I got? Who
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: thinks I'm funny? Hey, I'm doing a PhD. Hey, but whatever, right,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: all the shit that I identify with, right, that's not
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: my reason for living. That's just stuff. They're just they're
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: not bad, they're not bad, but they're ultimately kind of distraction.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: And in that moment, and I don't mean to be
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: too weird, but she turned to me and she she's
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: holding my hand, now she's she's dying, says to me,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: you know how much I love you? And that was it.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And I'm the big alpha male. I'm fucked. I can't
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: even speak. Yeah, And in that moment, You're like, oh,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: you know what matters is love? Yeah, what matters is people,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: What matters is connection, What matters is compassion, What matters
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: is having a purpose bigger than me. Yes, I can
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: be a selfish fuck.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: And then that so, yeah, I think it's And then
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the last bit I want to say then I'll shut up,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: is so when you say all this stuff.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Is happening, don't shut up on your own podcast. To
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: be really shut up for you because just silence.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be awkward. So how is the last
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Craig? Shut up? But that was it.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: But when you said, I've never used drugs or you
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: know which you haven't, I've never used drugs. I've never
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: even had beer, Right, So you and I are pretty boring,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: but maybe wise, who knows. But the thing is that
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: like when you have a thought, when you have a
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: negative thought, there's a biochemical reaction in your body. When
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: you have a positive thought, the same except you know,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: one's producing adrenaline and cortisol the negative one, and one's
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: producing dopamine, which is a feel good hormone. Right, So
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: everything you eat a bit of food, there's a chemical
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: reaction in your body. I give you a hug. Now,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: if you hate me, there's a chemical reaction that's bad.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: If you love me, there's one that's positive. So this
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: whole idea of you know that, oh, there's your mind,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and there's your emotions, and there's your body is actually
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: a flawed paradigm because your emotions, your psychology, and your
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: physiology are one system and everything affects everything. So if
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: you get sad, if I say to you, Hey, dd,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I've got some bad news. And I tell you something
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: and you process it in your brain. Right, that's cognitive,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: and then you understand it. Now you feel sad, Well,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: that's brain and that's emotion. And then there's a physical consequence,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: you know, like your blood pressure goes up and your
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: heart rate increases, and your sympathetic nervous system, which is
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: fight or flight, switches on and all these things that oh,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: now I'm sad, or now I'm anxious or And the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: genesis of that was me telling you a thing. So
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: all interacts all the time, and so the challenge in
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: managing our body is really how do I manage my thoughts?
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Well, I was concerned when I was going through that
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: stress as to the physical effects that it was having
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: on my body, because I did learn something from you
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: all those years ago when you.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Used to train me.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: You know, you do need to look after your physical
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: body because everything comes from what you're able to do
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: each day and what you're able to get to. But yeah,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: there were some weird consequences. I actually cracked a tooth,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: which I have no awareness of doing, but the dentist
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: said that I was probably like biting my jaw down
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: so hard in my sleep.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: You know. It's things like that, and that just made
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: me annoyed.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: I thought I didn't even know I was doing that,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: and I was annoyed that I had been put in a.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Situation where I was so stressed that that had happened.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I had this weird pain.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: I actually thought I must have had a pendicitist or something,
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: but it turned out it was just.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: What is it the babies get, like a.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: Colic or something, which was a result of just whatever
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: those stress hormones that were going through my body, and
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: I was angry that they were there. I was thinking,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: get out of my body. I'm doing everything I can
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: to try and let this stress go. Let the whole thing,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: the whole radio, everything that was that go. And I
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: think I'm past it now, but yeah, it was like
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: I just couldn't get it out of my life fast.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Can I tell you how I kind of how I
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: came from that, because I really was on my knees
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: And there are moments now where something will happen or
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: something will say something, and I come undone again and I'll.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Disolve in tears very easily.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: One was a guy who wanted to interview me on
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: a It was a podcast about radio people in radio,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: and I really just did not want to talk about
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: radio because it had hurt me so badly, and he
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: was such a nice guy, and I felt sorry. I
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: kept saying, putting him off, putting him off, and in
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: the end I said, okay then, and I had to
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: because I forget what I've done and I'm terrible with
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: dates and all that stuff, but I have kept everything
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: in scrapbooks.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: So I got out my scrap books of my.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Whole radio career and was just sort of flicking through
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: to remind myself, Oh yeah, I interviewed that person and
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: I remember, you know.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: That show and stuff like that. And as I was
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: going through it, I thought, I mean, I did quite
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: a bit of stuff. I actually a bit of stuff.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: But the realization that helped me was that no one
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: can take that away.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: My record stands.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: So that was part of divorcing myself from what you
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: mentioned a moment ago. My identity was as that radio person,
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: and I thought, well, no one can take away what
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: my achievements were. And I then also reminded myself, I
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: know I've always done right by the people I've worked with,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: and all of my friendships with colleagues. I can't think
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: of a single colleague that I don't still have a
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: friendship with or that we don't have a good relationship still.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: So I've still got all the friendships and the relationships
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: with people I worked with. And I started to see
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: things from a different perspective.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Instead of thinking, oh.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: God, I've lost all of that, I started to think, well,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: hang on, let's see all the things that I have
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: got left. So there was my record, there was the
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: professional relationships. I consider myself very lucky that even though
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: it's radio, most people don't know what you look like.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: But you know, occasionally I'll go up to the supermarket
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: and someone will tap me on the shoulder and say,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: oh I really miss your show or.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed your show. It's just a little moment.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: But those things lift me and I absorb them and
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: I'll take that and that they helped to heal the
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: hurt that was done.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: But probably the biggest thing for me, and just stop
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: me if I'm talking too much, it's your podcast.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Keep on.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: The thing that really helped me was having a new purpose.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: And if you'll forgive me mentioning a podcast that I've
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: been working on on my show. I used to have
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: a guy, a former homicide detective by the name of
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Charlie Bazino, was a regular on my show and he
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: would come on and talk.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: About crime once a week and just a great guy.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: And one time he came on, he brought a guy
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: called Daryl Floyd on to be interviewed, and Darryl back
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy five, his brother went missing. His brother
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: was only twelve and Daryl was ten at the time,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: and Darrel has spent his entire life looking for his brother,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: trying to find his body.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: He's pretty sure he knows where it is. It's in
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: a gold mine.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: In Mirovoka, and he's digging in that gold mine and
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: has been for many years trying to find his brother's remains.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: And the person who he believes is responsible for his
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: brother going missing is still alive. So Charlie came to
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: me and I interviewed Daryl on my show and I
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: was just sort of really moved by his story. But
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: after my job ended, I notice how I still have
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: trouble saying I was sacked. But that's just how that
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: helps me get through it. Charlie said to me, have
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: a look at this case again and see what you think.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: And so I did, and the more and more I
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: read about it, I thought, this is a massive, massive
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: by police and there's a lot of injustice in this story.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: And I also think that this story can be solved,
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: and that's something Charlie has sat one hundred percent.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: So I then focused.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: On investigating researching the story, and the last probably eighteen
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: months to two years have been creating this podcast if
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: you want to listen, it's called The Boy and the
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: gold Mine. And knowing that and I'm not making any
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: money from it, it's all been a labor of love
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: from my perspective, but I have found it so satisfying
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: that I'm doing something good to help this person who
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: has been so poorly treated by the authorities and by
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: life itself. It's given me purpose, It's given me something
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: to do, something to create that I can be satisfied
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: I've done my best. I'm really proud of what I've created,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: and that has probably been the biggest thing, apart from
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: family and the love of those around me, in helping
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: me get back on my feet again.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: And I have to say, quite honestly, right now, I
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: feel quite content with my life, which is a long
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: way from where I was.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: If you spoke to me two years ago, I literally
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: couldn't speak. I couldn't speak. No, I couldn't talk for
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: two or three days. I couldn't speak.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: How answer as much or as little as you want,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: but what you know, how did you process that emotionally
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and mentally over the first two or three months? Did
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: you when you finally could talk, did you talk about it?
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Did you do therapy? Did you punch the walls? Did
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: you what? Did scream into a pillow? How did you
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: start to decompress and deal with that? If you did, Yeah, no,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: And it took me probably a couple of weeks before
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: I gathered myself enough to say I need help. I
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: need someone to help me process this like i've you know,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: I'm making it sound like I was under the dinner.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I was, And I was getting up every.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Day and going about my life, and I kept doing
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: the things that I knew would just give me maximum health.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: At the time, I was trying to make sure that
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: I was sleeping. I don't like taking sleeping tablets, but
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: I was using sleeping tablets at that time just to
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: make sure that I was getting sleep, because I strongly
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: believe that getting a good night's sleep is really important
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: to setting you up to deal with.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: The day that comes. I was eating as healthily as
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I could.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: I was making sure that I was getting outside in
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: nature and walking each day to try and walk away
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: the stress. So I did all those physical things. But
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: there was a point after a couple of weeks where
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: I realized I wasn't being cured, and so I spoke
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: to a counselor, and I think I may have had
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: three or four sessions in the end, and the woman
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: who was my counselor, I actually specifically chose someone who
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: wasn't in Victoria, which is where I was going to air.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: She was in another states, which meant that she had
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: no clue of who I was, or what my job was,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: or what my media profile was at the time, because
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: I wanted to just be a lady who was a
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: bit damaged at that point, and she was actually and
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not really a very spiritual person, but in some
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: ways I am. Maybe I'm not religious, but maybe I
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: am a little bit spiritual.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: But she was quite spiritual. But we really connected.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: I just lucked out that she was very gentle, and
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: she gave me a few little droplets that helped me
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: to process what I was going through. One of the
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: things was that I felt quite betrayed by someone in
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: management who, you know, on the very day that they
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: let me go, was being my buddy in the corridor.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: And then that night bang and I just remember I
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: said to her, I thought he was my friend.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: She said to me, he was never your friend, you.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: Know, So it was just a a few things she
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: said like that that kind of gave me the tools
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: to unpack what it was that was bothering me so much.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And I mean other things I did.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I just said to stop listening to radio full stop,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: which is why I love podcasts like yours, because podcasts
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: are everything.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Instead of radio. But yeah, I.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Would highly recommend to anyone to speak to a professional
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: if you're struggling. It's not a weak thing to do.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: It's not a hairy, fairy, strange thing to do. It's
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: actually one of the best things you can do to
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: speak to another person who can empathize and sympathize and
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: give you some suggestions on how you can work your
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: way through whatever it is your trauma.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Is that you can get through it.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I love that, Thanks for sharing that. It's funny when
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: you say that how your therapist said he was never
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: your friend. I'm how do I say this like there's
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: no self pity in this or like my life's great.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I'm very blessed and lucky. But I've had a lot
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: of people over the years who I like my bestie
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: until I'm no use to them anymore, you know what
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I mean. It's like, oh, it's their role playing friendship.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: But then all of a sudden the thing that I was,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: the doors that I was opening, the help, the assistance.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: When I can't do that or they've got everything, then
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: they kind of vanish. I've also got beautiful, amazing people, right,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: But like I have a litmus test for friendship, and
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: it's like this is my test. One do they say
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: nice things behind my back? Like when I'm not around,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: are they you know? Two? Is my life better with
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: the minute? Now? Like? Is my life better because dds
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: in my life? Like that's a you know, if I'm
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: not around and DD is talking about I don't know,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: but I would I'm pretty sure you might be saying
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: positive things. And then the other thing is would they
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: still want me to be in their lif I feef
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: f I'm no value to them, like no strategic value,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: do you know what I mean. I don't mean that
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not supportive of but it's like, you know, like
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of what people call friendships are
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: almost like a strategic alliance. Yeah, okay, where either one
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: side or both sides there's some there's some benefit other
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: than other than just the normal you know, emotional, psychological
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: or sociological benefits of friendship. But I mean more like
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: a more like a career kind of leverage or financial,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: you know, incentive or something like that. So I also
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: think if you've got five people in the world, no
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: three other than your family, but three people in the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: world who are like your ride or die, you could
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: ring that person anytime, anytime and just go I need
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: you to come over, and they're like, I'm on my way.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: That's it. I'm on my way. Yeah, not like after
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: these it's just like, yep, I'm coming. I'll see in
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: ten minutes.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: I absolutely one hundred percent agree with you on that.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: And I've got a best best friend. But then I've
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: got this circle of friends and I was actually one
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: of them, had a birthday just recently, and I was
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: in this room of all these incredible women, and I
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: just thought, I know that any one of these women
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: I could call if I was having a problem of
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: some sort and that they would jump and offered help.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: And I do think women do it very well. I
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: think men are getting so much better at it.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: You know. I look at my husband, and he's.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Great, and we talk about everything, and we support each
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: other and share what we're thinking and feeling.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: But I also know that he plays golf once a
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: week with this group of guys, and you know, they're
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: a pack of wrap bags, but I love them. They're
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: lovable rogues. But what they do is they talk, you know.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: And I think for guys golf or playing some sort
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: of sport, or having some sort of a place where
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: you can get together with your.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Bros and talk about stuff.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: I think it's kind of considered to be a female
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: thing that we sit in gossip, But I think men
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: are just as willing to do that, to chat over
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: things with their pals. And I've personally seen with my
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: husband and with some of his mates, how these guys
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: have been able to help each other through. And I
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: can tell sometimes when Kira, and my husband comes home,
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: you know, and he's having a few tests and things
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: done on his heart at the moment. And he came
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: home and he said, oh, I can't think which of
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: the guys it was.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: One of the bros.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, he also had the same thing. And I thought, well,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: that's just in the back of my mind thought, well,
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: that's good. He's obviously talking to the guys about what
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: he's dealing with at the moment. These tests is having done.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: He's obviously worried. He's run it past the guys. One
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: of the guys has sivia. I had that too. Here's
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: how it worked out for me. So I think that
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: having that friendship circle like you just said, and I'll
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: go for more than three. I like having tons. The
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: more you can get, the merrier, But the more people
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: that you can kind of share the load with, spread
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: the load, because to me, that's what friendship feels like.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: And I don't like to sound like I'm like a
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: heavy weight hanging off all my friends next, but I
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: think they know that they could do the same with me.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: You know, That's what a friendship is when there's that
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: balance doesn't always have to be sometimes, you know, in
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: your own friendships that perhaps you're giving a little.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Bit more than the other person is.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: And that's when, like you said, you start to think, oh,
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: is this person making my life better? Sometimes the balance
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: is out, But proper good friends, I think I kind
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: of keep that little ledger in their mind. And if
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: you've got that with anyone, that's worth gold.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting, Like this is a weird lap, right,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: but like the way that depending on who you listen to,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: whether or not you listen to the creation people or
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: the evolution people, but you know, sociologists and the like
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: suggests that we've been An anthropologist suggests that we've been
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: around as a modern kind of species for three hundred
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: thousand years. And you think about for most of that
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: evolutionary timeline, we haven't lived like we live now, Like
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: we haven't like look at you, You and I are
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: in different places having a real time conversation, you know,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Like we didn't live in high rises, and we didn't
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: have cars and planes, and we didn't have electricity, and
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: we didn't have fridges. Like ninety nine point nine to
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: nine percent of people who have ever lived didn't have
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: all the amazing shit that we've got and they lived
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: in They lived basically in tribes. And there was a sociologist.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: His name is Dunbar I forget his first name, but anyway,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: he built this. He created this theory around this idea
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: of what is the ideal number of people to have
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: in your community, because people used to live in communities,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and the ideal number was about one hundred and fifty,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: where you know about one hundred and fifty people, and
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: you get on with about one hundred and fifty people,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: and you know, and there's people within that community who
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: all are good at different things and will serve each
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: other in different ways. And now it's just like the
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: world is so you know, vast, and access to so
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: many people is so easy, and it's almost like sometimes
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: it can be overwhelmed. And I think when you turn
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: down the volume on all the noise and you just
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: go and hang out with your friends and turn everything
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: off and just plug into another human or group of
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: humans and get away from the mayhem of you know,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: whatever social media or whatever external noise, it's like, oh, yeah,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: this is this is what humans are meant to do.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: When men can be together, the.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: Interaction, you know, And I have to say, if I
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: do miss anything, really enough, mostly gotten over.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Not doing radio anymore, but I missed that interaction.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I've mostly gotten over getting the sack. Come on, say
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: it I gotten over.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Well, technically they just didn't renew my contract. Is that sacking?
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I suppose it is. But also the interactions we're having
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: with people.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: And I absolutely agree with what you're saying that human
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: interaction is everything. But these days, so much of the
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: interaction is a click.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: On a keyboard.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: You know, it's not and that's not real, and people
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: think it's real, and it's not so to me sometimes
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: without sounding silly, you know, just popping up to the
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: supermarket and bumping into someone that I know, or one
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: of the mums that used to go to the kids
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: went to school with my kids. Hang on, that sentence
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: didn't come out right. Their kids went to school with
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: my kids. You know, just those human interactions, they're so
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: important and it's something. So my parents are both still alive.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: Dad's eighty eight, mum's eighty six. Mum's got dementia. Dad's
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: doing Dad's still got all his faculties and he's looking
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: after her. But what it means is he can't have
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: a conversation with her because she can't keep.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: A thought in her head.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: She's still fine, she still potters around the house and stuff,
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: but he can't have a.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Conversation with her.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: So I have to make an effort to make sure
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: that I talk to him so that he's got someone
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: to just discuss everyday life things with because he doesn't
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: have that. He's effectively isolated, even though he's living in
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: a home with the woman that he's loved his entire life.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Because of that reason, you need to have interaction with people.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: And yeah, this is the reason people go to the foot,
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: isn't it so that you can cheer when there's a
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: goal with all these tens of thousands of people you
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: don't know. Human beings want to be together with their tribe,
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: together with people who they know, they think and feel
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: and empathize with.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: We need that. That's that's why, that's part of why
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: we're here on this earth.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: We need that kinship of being with people who are
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: like ours.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: I totally agree, I'm boring.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Is this is this?
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: No? No, this is what this is. This is what
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: we do on the year project. Do you know what
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I think I was going to say this to you?
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Off air listeners listeners. I'm opening the door. I was
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: going to have this conversation with DD when we're done,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to have it now because I want
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: to include you. This could be wildly inappropriate. I think you, like,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: it is so easy to do a podcast now. Right now,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I know that you're doing The Boy in the gold Mine,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: which is a love project, and it's beautiful and it's amazing.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: And by the way, everybody, I'm full disclosed, I haven't
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: listened to it, but I'm going to start to listen
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: to it because I only just became aware of it.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: So I'm recommending you have a listener as well. But
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: like I'm sitting in my office now, I am to
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: view people every day all over the world, all kinds
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of people. We have meaningful dialogues like this, and it's
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: so easy to you know, if you've got a decent
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: a decent computer and a decent mic and a quiet room,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: you can do what I'm doing right now, and you're
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: doing right now, and even like I'm listening to your
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: audio and you're talking on your phone and the quality
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: of the audio is amazing. Right, you need your own podcast,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: like one hour a day, Like I really think that
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: you could. And just like with the You Project, we
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I've told this story many times for the first six
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: hundred episodes. Six hundred by the way, I made fucking
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: no dollars zero, and I loved it because I was
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't it would take you nowhere near that, of course,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: but just building, you know, where you get to the
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: point where, oh, I know how to do this now
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I understand the process and the science and the tech
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: and the you know, the whole you know. I just
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: think that it would be great for you to have
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: your own and whether or not it was once a
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: week or you know, three days a week or seven
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: days a week, or you record a bunch of shows
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: on one day and then take the I just think
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: with your skills and your communication, and also, if I'm
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: being honest, I think of all the fucking people you know.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could do a year of programs just
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: off the people that you personally know.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Do you know what?
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: And like one of the things that as I'm sitting
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: listening to you and you you don't know how this
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: show works, right, So I'm telling you in real time
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: probably shouldn't involve the listeners, but fuck it, everyone just
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: lean in.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Oh gee, that makes them feel special. Fucked a lot
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: of you.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: Craig is just going to go broke and see whatever
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: he wants his show.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. Have you ever said have you ever
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: said fuck on a podcast or any broadcast?
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yes I have.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no I'm terrible and yeah I've done some very
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: inappropriate things.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: But don't tell anyone.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: But it's like, I have regulars on the show, so
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: we have people that so we have all our unique
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: guests that come like this is your first time. But
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I also have a bunch of people who are really
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: good at what they do when they come on once
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: a month or once a fortnight or once every two months.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: So I have a guy that comes on every fortnight
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and we loosely talk about technology. And there's a guy
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: called David Gillespie who's a maybe Australia's biggest selling author,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: who wrote A Sweet Poison and a myriad of other
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: great books. He's a lawyer by qualification. He comes on
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: once every two weeks. He's brilliant. But yeah, I just
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if you miss being
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: on mic and talking to people, But if anyone's ready
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: to just step into this space and kill it quite quickly.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: And I know that's not what you're about, but you
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: could definitely do something from home. You don't have to
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: go anywhere. It'd be I can organize someone to help
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: you sort the tech and the production quite easily for
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: fuck all, you know. So anyway, that's my thoughts. Have
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: you thought about doing your own thing.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I've never been very comfortable with the spotlight being on me,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: which I know it wouldn't be because I'd be speaking
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: to different people.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: And firstly, I'm genuinely flattened by what you're saying. It
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: kind of if I'm really being honest, it's like a
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: little stab in my heart thinking what you're describing is
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: me being doing what I was doing, being on radio,
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: talking to people, understanding, listening to.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Them, learning, giving my thoughts. That's what I was doing.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: And and you know, apologies to anyone if this sounds vulgar,
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: but I was good at what I did.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: I was good at it, and thank you for about
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: being though.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: But you still are like you're and I know you're
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: not doing that right now, but it's like me gone,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I was a good trainer now I'm still a really
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: fucking good trainer, and I don't.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: Say something we're a good trainer, except you were mean
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: sometimes to me.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: That's what made me a good trainer because you No,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: that may go because you were soft, bro. No, you're welcome. No, no, no.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: I did have very good abs.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: In fact, when I got do you remember I stopped
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: coming to you because I got pregnant?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: In fact, I think I trained with you through my
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: first pregnancy. But I can remember them in the.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Birthing suite disapproving of my abs because they were too tight.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: They said you it was it was me And I
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: actually tore right down the middle of my abs because
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: it was too tight from.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: All the work you maybe do. How did we get
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: around to that?
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: So so what you're blaming me is your painful pregnancy.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Was my fault. Yes, we got there.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: No, I'm listening to what you're saying, and maybe one day.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not quite there yet.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: So I've been really comfortable making the podcast that I've
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: been making because it's about someone.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: It's a story, it's.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: It's a quest for me, it's a desire to see justice,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: to see an outcome.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: So that's why I've been okay doing that.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: And once it's done, or it reaches its natural conclusion.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: I will think about it because I miss talking to people,
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: or no, I've always missed people talking to me. People
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: always with radio would say to me my most recent
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: radio show was three hours, and people would say, how
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: do you get talk for three hours?
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: And I would say, it's actually, that's not the hard part.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: The hard part.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: Is that you've got to listen for three hours and
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: don't just be thinking about what you're going to say.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: You've got to listen to what people are saying to.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: You so you can respond a learn from them and
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: have a proper conversation and keep the doors open. Let
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: people talk to you that don't agree with you, because
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: that's where the growth comes from.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: So Craig, one day, maybe I will.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: I do have a recording desk I've got I don't
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: have a mic, but yeah, I have the means to
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: do it. I just at the moment, I haven't got
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: the will to do it because I'm still even though
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: it's two years, i still.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Feel like I.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: Was effectively told by a bunch of faceless men in
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: another capital city that I wasn't good enough, And.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Even though in my heart I know they were wrong.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: I'm still stung by that. There's probably a little part
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: of that is still in me thinking you're not good enough,
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: and I need to get over that. I need to
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: make the podcasts that I've done enough of a success
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: and it has been going well.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: And.
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: That will help me reach the point that you're encouraging
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: me to step toward.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, maybe I just think you And this is
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: not me trying to make you feel good, like I've
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: I've worked with you on radio little tiny bit at
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: gold FM, Yeah, very very you know, I'd stick my
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: face in every now and then and we chat. But
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: you know, you're not You're not pretty good at it.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: You're like literally the best you know and that skill
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: and that knowledge doesn't go away, like and you don't need,
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: you don't need the approval of people you don't know.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: And this is such a human thing, is that one
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: hundred people go you're great, and one funck with goes
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: you're not. And we give all our power to the
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: one fuck with, you know, And so like when I
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: I I've spoken about you to many people over the time,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: over my time and gone like you and Grubby and
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: your heyday, you by yourself just fucking amazing and outstanding
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and that that doesn't go away. It's not like footy
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: where you've got to use by date, you know, although
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: some people who are the decision makers might think that.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: But yeah, anyway, I just said to everyone, I'm a
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: free trying to be not but it is it. I
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: want to go punch them in the face for you,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: but that probably won't. Can I just ask one thing
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: pursuant to that, pursuant to that you're on it, not
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: the face punching. Did you ever get did you ever
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: get a did you ever get a rationale? It's like, yeah,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: well you're number one and you're killing it, but we're
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: getting like, was there any you know, shudo explanation?
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Well, because the brave men who made the decision didn't
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: have the bravery to actually tell me to my face,
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: and like I said, they were in another city, I.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Did make a call.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: And because you know, I think human beings we want,
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: we need to process stuff, we need to understand. And
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: I think that's why there is such an appetite for
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: true crime at the moment, whether it's TV shows or
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: podcasts or whatever.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: People are problem solvers. We need to go oh, why
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: did that happen?
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: We need to sort it out so that I think,
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: I think it's almost like it's a big dress rehearsal.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: We're in our heads going, oh, if that happened to me,
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: how would I deal with it?
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: And so I needed to know why it had.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: Happened so that I could process it and move on,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: you know. If they were going I think I think
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: probably what I wanted to hear was something along the
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: lines of, oh, well, we've done some private research.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: And you've come up really badly.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: You know, it turns out that women between forty and
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: fifty don't like listening to you. Or I wanted something
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: and all that I had to ring them, and one
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: of them.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: In particular, the best that he could give me was.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: We were all we were looking, you know, two years
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: down the track and thinking, oh, you're part of our plans.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: Probably not so, I mean, that's not an explanation. No,
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: I've never had an explanation, No one ever has. And
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: I don't feel in clid to speak to them ever again.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: I'd love to, maybe one day down the track, speak
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: to them and just ask one of them what.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: One of the things crag that I and this was
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: early and this was back with.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: The counselor that I spoke to. That I became clear
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: on was I didn't do anything wrong.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: I didn't do anything wrong, and it can't have been
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: based on there was never And I think that was
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: probably something that was in the.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: Back of my mind.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: I thought, oh gosh, because it was quite a shock
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: to people, and it was a shock to me, and
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: it was a shock to the audience, and I thought, oh,
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: I hope people don't think that.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: You know, there was some mysterious behind the scenes.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: You know, I'd been caught drink diving and they didn't
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: like I don't drink for the record, you know that
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: there was some terrible scandal and they'd had to swush
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: me out of the building.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: There never was.
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: There was literally nothing like I am such a goodiejoo shoes,
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: I was such a hard worker, and.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: I've lost my train of thought.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: But I never had an explanation as to why it happened.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: But I was able to realize it was nothing that
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: I did nothing, Yeah, it was it was just it
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: looks can I put on my.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Coach's hat and my friend and you might not like
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: what I'm going to say?
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Oh no, don't make me cry, Yeah, God.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: They're not they're not thinking about you. You're taking too
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: much about them, Like, fuck them, Like you're still hour
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: like this, all this rumination and all this emotion and
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: all this energy that you're investing in them. I understand it,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: but it's so fucking bad for you, all right, And
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: you don't need to have a conversation with them. Fuck them.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: You need to find a way to put that in
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: a big kind of treasure chest, walk it to the
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: edge of an emotional cliff and throw that shit over.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Easier said than done. And I know I sound like
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: a fucking idiot, but yeah.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Like unnecessarily angry Craig, You've got to calm that down.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: It makes me sad to see that you're so bothered
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: by these people that whatever for whatever reason, you know,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: they don't know whatever, And it's but.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: At the same time, it's their business. It's their radio station.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: They're allowed to have working there who they want. They
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: wanted to change the lineup, that's that's fine. If they
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: wanted to do that, if they want to have someone
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: different in there, that's their choice, and they can bear
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: the consequences of whether they've made the right choice or not.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: For the record, No they didn't.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: But did the ratings go down when you left?
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Oh? They went down, Craig, and they're continuing to go down.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: But I won't dance on anyone's great. That would be unkind. Now, look, ironically.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Bring that up at all, ironically, Three, I w suffering
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: your jobs.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Don't be mean. No, Look ironically my in my shift.
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: And I don't know if this was the original plan
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: or not, but the person who replaced me is actually
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: a good friend of mine and a lovely guy. And
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: he was very sweet and he ranged me and he
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: and I fine, And it's you know, I bear no
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: ill will at all toward him, toward him because he's
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: doing the job he's been asked to do. He didn't
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: make the decision. He's just been offered a position that
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: you know I would grab with both hands. Not now
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: he grabbed it with both hands. But yeah, that's a
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: that's a weird already, isn't it.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, look I'm letting it go. Well it has,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: it has. And the other point I will make is
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: that time.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: I know it's a cliche, but time really does heal
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: because peace by piece different.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: People, you know, it's been valuable for me talking to you.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: Every time I have a conversation like this, I take away,
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: you know, a droplet or two of something that helps
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: me process what I went through. And that again comes
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: back to and this is something for everyone, the interaction.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: You know, every time you talk to someone or chat
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: to a friend or ask someone how did they deal
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: with something, you pick up something that helps you to
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: deal with what you're going through in your life. So
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: thank you for having me on today to work through stuff.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not trying to make you feel good when
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: I say you're great at what you do.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: Now, No, I do ially love to be Craig as
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: to come on, I've tell you.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: But that's sorry. Here deal with be right. Champ and
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: I am both too old to do anything about it now.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: So I don't know how that happened. Look at us,
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: We had.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: Our moment, didn't we once in the hallway when we crossed?
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: All right, tell people once again the name of it
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: that I'm fucking with you. Tell people the name of
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: the show, and yes, and where they can follow you
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: on socials and all that kind of stuff if you want.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, I've got my own socials, which is just
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: at DD only the audience and Facebook, but the podcast,
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: which I would love people to check out if you
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: are interested in true crime.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: It's a really heart wrenching story. It's called The.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: Boy in the gold Mine and you'll find it on
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: Insta at the Boy in the gold Mine. And also
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: there's a Facebook page as well which has got lots
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: of behind the scenes photographs and stuff of evidence and
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: things that are part of the story. So thank you
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: for allowing me to give that a mention because it's
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: it's absolutely my passion at the moment.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure it's brilliant and we are. Yeah, jump
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: on the face, Jump on our Facebook page when we
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: have a new project Facebook page which we've got quite
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of people on. If you have a listen
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: to do D's potty, jump on there and give us
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: a little bit of feedback. I'd love because I'm going
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: to have a listen.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Please be kind, clearly I'm vulnerable still no no.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, Well, you know it'll be honest. I'm
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: sure it'll be positive. I'm going to have a listen
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: over the weekend because I'm driving to see Ron and Mary,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: which is four hours in the car, so I'll consume
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: a bit of it. Then we're going to say goodbye
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: if Air you and I. But I love your guts
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that you're in a better place.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Albeit I think you and I still have some workshopping
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: to do, and you enjoy the rest of your Thursday.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Craig, and thank you. I'm so delighted for your success.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: You've always been such a positive presence in my life.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Albeit we haven't been that close over the last few years,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: but I have such fond memories of training you with
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: you plenty of life.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: You're a good guy. You're one of the good ones.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: You're a pure heart. So thank you for having me on.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Thanks lovely,