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ep11 Matthew Willox has a spark · Almost Famous Enough

• 0:24
  Matthew Willox is an electronic artist.
• 0:27
  He looks punk rock.
• 0:29
  He sounds humble, yet earnest.
• 0:32
  We both work our day jobs together.
• 0:34
  We both have something to say about.
• 0:36
  Everything, if you're serious about asking.
• 0:38
  I had no knowledge of his music career before already asking him to join me on the podcast.
• 0:44
  He is the mad scientist version of pure artistic passion and intellect obscured by the shield of a wild salt and pepper beard.
• 0:52
  He is the musical Doc in Back To the Future.
• 0:55
  We couldn't help but skip through.
• 0:57
  Classic Future is now digital heavy film favorites like Tron and Scott Pilgrim versus the World.
• 1:03
  The reference we missed though was oddly MacGyver.
• 1:06
  MacGyver was a 1985 TV show about a man who blended, unconventional problem solving with deep scientific handyman skills to continually escape life or death situations without the tools or means using whatever meager assets available and transforming them into the perfect tools for the moment if the situation called for it.
• 1:27
  MacGyver.
• 1:28
  Or Matthew Willox could likely turn a DeLorean into a time machine or an OG super NES joystick into a keyboard, let's just call it a little bit genius, a little bit, not knowing any different.
• 1:41
  The madness in a mad scientist is the ability to continually see and hear, and feel things that don't exist yet and bring them to life By any means usually, despite the lack of means.
• 1:56
  Matthew Willox is an electronic artist with over 20 releases under various monikers such as Perpetual Music Machine Spark, Winnie the Shit WNY, and most recently matter warlocks.
• 2:08
  I.
• 2:08
  His music career includes the big highs of signing the record deal, winning a national laptop battle, and the deeper lows of losing everything along the way.
• 2:18
  His people, possessions and purpose.
• 2:22
  He's a brilliant digital creator, effortlessly blending disciplines in mediums, intellect in kindness, and continues the dream of making music that will find a place.
• 2:32
  My name is Glen Erickson.
• 2:34
  This is Almost Famous Enough.
• 2:36
  Thank you for spending your time with us.
• 2:38
  This is Matthew Willox.
• 2:55
  Glen Erickson: I
• 2:55
  matthew willox: Don't show this again,
• 2:57
  Glen Erickson: Matthew, that you showed up with a, uh, looks like a classic SM 58
• 3:01
  matthew willox: this is an SM 58 and I knew you were gonna say something about it.
• 3:05
  Glen Erickson: You did Well, I just think it's perfect.
• 3:09
  Glen Erickson: Like, um, there's just something so analog about, uh, who you are in your career and then choosing the SM 58.
• 3:16
  Glen Erickson: I love it, but
• 3:18
  matthew willox: That's, that's
• 3:18
  Glen Erickson: good.
• 3:19
  matthew willox: really funny that you mention that.
• 3:20
  matthew willox: 'cause people are always like, you're the, you're the analog guy.
• 3:24
  matthew willox: And I'm like, no, I'm really, I'm the complete opposite of that.
• 3:28
  matthew willox: Like, I'm this guy, right?
• 3:31
  matthew willox: I'm, and to the listeners, I'm,
• 3:34
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 3:34
  matthew willox: I'm holding up a piece of electronics.
• 3:36
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 3:37
  Glen Erickson: You're, you're the computer chip guy.
• 3:38
  Glen Erickson: okay.
• 3:39
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, that's an interesting point because like, there's a version of electronic that feels now, like we're talking 2025, right?
• 3:46
  Glen Erickson: That
• 3:47
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 3:47
  Glen Erickson: analog.
• 3:48
  Glen Erickson: And I think we just, people mix up the terms.
• 3:51
  Glen Erickson: Is that a fair assessment?
• 3:52
  Glen Erickson: Like they're thinking analog, like the old version of blips and bleeps the same way, like analog being, I'm gonna, you know, record like live off the floor into a mic of whatever comes out of this amp and however this amp, you know, whether it got really hot or didn't get hot that day is gonna change the sound.
• 4:11
  Glen Erickson: Like we talk about analog in recording, but
• 4:14
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 4:14
  Glen Erickson: an electronic music guy, so yeah, you're running things through computer chips and you've, and I want to talk about this with you, about your fascination simply between this merger, between, you know, these, these set of devices or tools that we use in that world and.
• 4:31
  Glen Erickson: Our own versions of reality or however we might wanna call it, but yeah.
• 4:36
  Glen Erickson: But I think that you started in a time when now people are sort of calling like the, the analog version of electronic music.
• 4:44
  Glen Erickson: Is that fair?
• 4:45
  Glen Erickson: Or Tell me if I'm super off base.
• 4:47
  matthew willox: Okay, so way, way back in 1998, I think, somewhere around there I got an email from a guy and he's like, how are you getting your recordings?
• 4:56
  matthew willox: So crystal clear, like, he's like, you're recording stuff.
• 5:00
  matthew willox: And I'm like, I pull it up into the mixer and I crank it all the way up and there's no noise on your recording.
• 5:06
  matthew willox: And so I'm like, oh, well, it's all completely digitally rendered.
• 5:11
  matthew willox: Like there's no sound, right?
• 5:15
  Glen Erickson: yeah,
• 5:16
  matthew willox: it doesn't have to go through the air or through any electricity.
• 5:19
  matthew willox: It just literally gets written to a cd, like from the memory of the computer.
• 5:23
  matthew willox: And he's like, what?
• 5:26
  matthew willox: And I was like, yeah, actually I have to add noise to stuff to make it seem more realistic.
• 5:32
  matthew willox: And I kind of think of it as like on the one extreme with analog, you have all this imperfection and, and problems that you're trying to manage.
• 5:42
  matthew willox: Okay?
• 5:42
  matthew willox: Like your cat bumping into the microphone stand, and so you have chaos and you're trying to reign in all the chaos.
• 5:48
  matthew willox: And then in digital, it's like Tron world.
• 5:51
  matthew willox: Everything's perfect, everything's on a grid, and you're actually trying to be like, can we add some chaos to Tron World to kind of make it more natural seeming and kind of like more human?
• 6:01
  matthew willox: And I kind of think that that
• 6:03
  Glen Erickson: as old as you and I, Tron was a Disney smash hit of basically a human living inside of,
• 6:10
  matthew willox: a computer That's right.
• 6:12
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 6:12
  matthew willox: A guy gets a, yeah, a guy gets, gets zapped by this gun and he gets digitized and he finds out there's like people living inside the computer.
• 6:20
  matthew willox: It sounds really dumb, but it's really cool.
• 6:21
  matthew willox: and so I, I really, if you look, if you look at anything that I do like from any kind of art standpoint, it's like, how do I get the computer to do noise that's real?
• 6:32
  matthew willox: Like that, that feels like real chaos.
• 6:34
  matthew willox: feels like real mountains or feels like real sand or feels like a real tone that would really come outta something.
• 6:40
  matthew willox: And so there's kind of like little tricks that I've learned along the way to do that sort of thing.
• 6:43
  matthew willox: And I think when people start coming to me like, you're the analog guy.
• 6:48
  matthew willox: They're just hearing these like things that figured out make you think something's analog.
• 6:53
  matthew willox: And now I use that.
• 6:54
  Glen Erickson: mm
• 6:55
  matthew willox: It's just all tricks.
• 6:56
  matthew willox: It's just all rendering tricks.
• 6:58
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 6:58
  Glen Erickson: Isn't that sort of a really cool thing about Yeah.
• 7:01
  Glen Erickson: That we are so frequently trying to.
• 7:06
  Glen Erickson: these elements of reality?
• 7:08
  Glen Erickson: Well, it just, the tension, right?
• 7:09
  Glen Erickson: Like the amount of effort and money that has gone into what your guy emailed you about in 2008 of like eternal effort to have the most perfect, clean, pristine sound, right?
• 7:23
  Glen Erickson: Like sound engineers, sound snobs.
• 7:26
  Glen Erickson: I remember years ago in Edmonton on hundred 24th Street was a, a, a place, a store called Audio Arc.
• 7:33
  Glen Erickson: It was like one of the, the highest end
• 7:36
  matthew willox: I know it.
• 7:37
  Glen Erickson: snob, the most expensive, uh,
• 7:39
  matthew willox: HiFi equipment.
• 7:41
  matthew willox: Yeah,
• 7:41
  Glen Erickson: high Fi.
• 7:42
  Glen Erickson: And I used to, uh, my first design job, I used to do the newsletters and brochures for that place.
• 7:47
  Glen Erickson: But so this, this eternal like pursuit of this pristine sound.
• 7:52
  Glen Erickson: And yet we've spent maybe not the same amount of money, but the same amount of effort group of people have also spent Trying to like, it's like when you get a brand new pair of white Adidas and then you scuff'em on the curb on the way to school.
• 8:07
  Glen Erickson: 'cause you don't possibly wanna look like you're wearing brand new shoes.
• 8:10
  Glen Erickson: Like they have
• 8:11
  matthew willox: kinda,
• 8:12
  Glen Erickson: And, and we do that to our music, right?
• 8:14
  Glen Erickson: Like we're, we're scuffing the shit out of our, out of our music.
• 8:17
  Glen Erickson: And I'm the same way.
• 8:18
  Glen Erickson: So I absolutely love that and identify it with, I love the real textures.
• 8:23
  Glen Erickson: I've, I've been trying to find, a quote that I placed on my Instagram, a long time ago, and I'm having trouble finding it, so I apologize if I looked distracted.
• 8:31
  Glen Erickson: But I had made this quote, Essentially, I'll paraphrase what the quote was, which talking about the beauty of like the brokenness part, uh, in sound and how, how we end up trying to like retro or the inclusion and the obsession with retro.
• 8:49
  Glen Erickson: And I sort of referenced that with this of analog.
• 8:53
  Glen Erickson: The, pursuit of that, is really our, our desire and our need to sort of connect to was that deep human element.
• 9:02
  Glen Erickson: In other words, the, the quote said something about, you know, the, the sound of a voice that's breaking it can't contain the emotion it's trying to get out.
• 9:12
  Glen Erickson: So it cracks, or, or an amp or an amp.
• 9:16
  Glen Erickson: Heating and overheating and breaking up led to distortion, which literally became.
• 9:22
  Glen Erickson: You know, a foundation to a guitar sound or tone that for decades now has been iterated all over the place and or,
• 9:31
  matthew willox: then,
• 9:31
  Glen Erickson: tape.
• 9:31
  Glen Erickson: Or tape his right.
• 9:33
  Glen Erickson: Or
• 9:33
  matthew willox: yep.
• 9:34
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 9:34
  Glen Erickson: this stuff in recording the tape, his made it feel, and we use the term warm for two decades.
• 9:39
  Glen Erickson: I've heard everyone say, I want it to feel warmer.
• 9:41
  Glen Erickson: And it's what they want is they want the thing that we used to think was shit.
• 9:46
  Glen Erickson: And we, and now we want it back.
• 9:49
  matthew willox: They're used to it, right?
• 9:50
  matthew willox: You're used to this feeling or this sound and, and doesn't it kind of feel a little bit dehumanizing when the like engineer guy comes along and is like, well, that's just this, you know, transfer curve.
• 10:04
  matthew willox: You know?
• 10:06
  matthew willox: Right.
• 10:07
  matthew willox: And you know, like you have these conversations.
• 10:09
  Glen Erickson: it for you.
• 10:11
  matthew willox: I, well, like, you know, and like, I, I, I really would never do that to somebody.
• 10:15
  matthew willox: And, and I, I at least try to stay out of like, debates of analog versus digital.
• 10:21
  matthew willox: And the reason why is because, you know, once, like if someone likes something, like why do they have to explain it to you?
• 10:29
  matthew willox: Right?
• 10:29
  matthew willox: Like, well explain to me like, like why you like analog.
• 10:33
  matthew willox: And they're like, well, I just like the sound of it.
• 10:35
  matthew willox: You're like, yeah, but it's not perfect.
• 10:37
  matthew willox: Right?
• 10:37
  matthew willox: And now you're just the guys at the Hi-Fi store again trying to upsell you on something
• 10:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 10:41
  matthew willox: right.
• 10:42
  matthew willox: And
• 10:42
  Glen Erickson: in high
• 10:43
  matthew willox: right.
• 10:44
  Glen Erickson: the, you're,
• 10:46
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 10:46
  Glen Erickson: in, in high fidelity
• 10:48
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 10:48
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 10:49
  matthew willox: And, and you know, like if someone was, like, if someone came to me and was like, Matthew, like which do you prefer?
• 10:55
  matthew willox: Analog or digital?
• 10:56
  matthew willox: Or like, what do you think, you know, like, I like, okay, I have to pick, you know, like, like, you know, are we talking like, like is it like a$200 synthesizer?
• 11:09
  matthew willox: I can go buy it long and McQuaid, or is it like a yamas 80 sitting in like a museum somewhere?
• 11:14
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 11:15
  matthew willox: Like,
• 11:15
  Glen Erickson: absolutely.
• 11:16
  Glen Erickson: Okay, perfect.
• 11:17
  Glen Erickson: So I, this is exactly what I knew would happen with you, Matthew, because we could just literally rabbit hole in a second.
• 11:23
  Glen Erickson: So, quick
• 11:24
  matthew willox: Oh yeah.
• 11:25
  Glen Erickson: Matthew Willis, we are coworkers.
• 11:28
  Glen Erickson: This is how I've met you.
• 11:30
  Glen Erickson: You're actually fairly recent to my life,
• 11:33
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Glen Erickson: the privilege of working together.
• 11:35
  Glen Erickson: When you sent me over some information about yourself, you talked about how somebody at one point drew a picture of you staring off into a distance and your head was surrounded by musical notes and the guy didn't even know that you made music, which I thought was really fitting because I.
• 11:52
  Glen Erickson: Also had this immediate sense of view, not particularly to music, but of a creative, and there's, uh, I mean I've been like the vice chair of the Edmonton Arts Council.
• 12:04
  Glen Erickson: I've been the chair of, uh, Alberta Musics Provincial Association of, was a year that I sat on juries and award grant funding, like all of that stuff for over 650 applicants.
• 12:17
  Glen Erickson: Like I've been so saturated, um, with creative work, but I can count maybe on one hand, Matthew, the number of times I've met somebody, and I immediately knew is who I would define as a creative, you're one of these guys.
• 12:31
  Glen Erickson: So I knew it.
• 12:33
  Glen Erickson: Um, it, it's just you have that aura and if somebody visualized it as musical notes around a guy staring off in the distance, that's pretty cool too.
• 12:43
  Glen Erickson: Um, so I.
• 12:45
  matthew willox: I have resting space face,
• 12:47
  Glen Erickson: Resting Space.
• 12:48
  Glen Erickson: Space.
• 12:49
  matthew willox: yeah,
• 12:49
  Glen Erickson: a good acronym though?
• 12:50
  Glen Erickson: Um, so, um, so I just knew that I thought, and then we've gotten into some conversations and I love them all and I thought this would be really great.
• 12:59
  Glen Erickson: So, uh, really quickly, before I end up in too many rabbit holes, I want to just paint the background.
• 13:06
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I also love your story that you provided for me and I looked into, and I love this because I didn't know your story and the truth of it, Matthew, is like, if we didn't work together, I wouldn't probably know who you are or your body of work or what this story is.
• 13:22
  Glen Erickson: And maybe that is why it feels so appealing in line with all the stories that I hope get told during the podcast.
• 13:29
  Glen Erickson: And,
• 13:30
  matthew willox: yeah.
• 13:30
  matthew willox: Go for it.
• 13:31
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 13:31
  Glen Erickson: the truth is like we can often talk to people who.
• 13:35
  Glen Erickson: Whose stories sound like somewhere near a top of a mountain, and yet you've gone up and down a number of times.
• 13:43
  Glen Erickson: And, uh,
• 13:45
  matthew willox: the mountain analogy.
• 13:46
  Glen Erickson: it's a
• 13:46
  matthew willox: It's exactly what it is.
• 13:48
  Glen Erickson: It's a different side of the story.
• 13:50
  Glen Erickson: And I think it's incredible also because, a person who just walks through your day with a lot of optimism and clearly, and, and a lot of pieces feels like, so I, I hope to find a little more of how that came about.
• 14:03
  Glen Erickson: So you're, as you said, you're an elect.
• 14:06
  Glen Erickson: I know this is like super top level.
• 14:09
  Glen Erickson: call you an
• 14:10
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 14:10
  Glen Erickson: musician.
• 14:11
  Glen Erickson: Obviously there's a million sub genres, uh, and you've probably dipped your way through multiple ones, uh, in your time.
• 14:18
  Glen Erickson: But you, you started all the way back in the nineties.
• 14:21
  Glen Erickson: You already sort of referenced that.
• 14:22
  Glen Erickson: We're we're, I think similar ages.
• 14:24
  Glen Erickson: So I very developmental, crucial time of the nineties.
• 14:29
  Glen Erickson: Uh, it had a definite imprint.
• 14:32
  Glen Erickson: you probably, uh, I'm pretty sure, you know, the more of the people who understand the mainstream versions of that would probably recognize that a guy like Trent Resner, had a
• 14:44
  matthew willox: I love Trent Ner.
• 14:45
  Glen Erickson: pretty good influence on who you are and what you are making.
• 14:49
  Glen Erickson: Uh, as a creative or bands like Skinny Puppy, uh, are probably a little more relative to a lot of people than, than the ones that would
• 14:57
  matthew willox: They were Canadian.
• 14:59
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 14:59
  Glen Erickson: there you go.
• 15:00
  Glen Erickson: Canadian.
• 15:01
  Glen Erickson: Um, so, but you've, you've recorded and released under several pseudonym.
• 15:08
  Glen Erickson: Um, you listed some for me.
• 15:10
  Glen Erickson: Perpetual Music Machine is what you started
• 15:14
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 15:14
  Glen Erickson: under.
• 15:15
  Glen Erickson: Uh, you've done a lot over the longest span of time under the name Spark.
• 15:19
  matthew willox: That's right.
• 15:20
  Glen Erickson: my favorite is Winnie.
• 15:21
  Glen Erickson: Winnie.
• 15:22
  Glen Erickson: The shit
• 15:23
  matthew willox: Yes.
• 15:23
  matthew willox: Everyone loves Winnie the shit.
• 15:25
  Glen Erickson: Well, yeah, it sounds so good, man.
• 15:27
  matthew willox: It's so punky.
• 15:28
  matthew willox: It's such a punk name.
• 15:30
  Glen Erickson: and it's so on point.
• 15:31
  Glen Erickson: Um, WNYI don't know if that stands for something in
• 15:35
  matthew willox: It just stands.
• 15:36
  matthew willox: It is just, I just see this is like, this is a good, like I was trying to clean up the name, Winnie the shit into something, just a little bit into something just a little bit nicer.
• 15:46
  matthew willox: Right.
• 15:47
  matthew willox: So I'd be like, Winnie.
• 15:48
  Glen Erickson: WNY short for Winnie.
• 15:50
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 15:50
  matthew willox: And we liked that at the time, like, you know, like, I don't like it anymore.
• 15:54
  matthew willox: But at the time it worked.
• 15:56
  Glen Erickson: And then the last, uh, the last pseudonym you use is Matter warlocks, which you say is sort of the most recent iteration.
• 16:02
  Glen Erickson: Yes.
• 16:03
  matthew willox: it's brand new.
• 16:04
  matthew willox: And I, like, I was like, I was trying to come up with something that connected to my name, like as a person,
• 16:10
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 16:11
  matthew willox: And I did.
• 16:11
  matthew willox: I like, you know, it's like, it's kind of like a cliche, actually, it's kind of a cliche when you, you, you sort of hit a certain age in electronic music and you're like, that's it.
• 16:20
  matthew willox: I'm like, no more names or pseudo aliases or hacker aliases.
• 16:24
  matthew willox: I'm just going to use my name.
• 16:26
  matthew willox: And I was kind of like, I don't really want to do that.
• 16:31
  Glen Erickson: But you,
• 16:32
  matthew willox: there's nothing wrong with my name.
• 16:34
  Glen Erickson: No, but you
• 16:35
  matthew willox: Like, yeah.
• 16:36
  Glen Erickson: to the name.
• 16:37
  Glen Erickson: You weren't like using the word bunny or something weird in your name or, yeah.
• 16:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 16:42
  Glen Erickson: You weren't,
• 16:42
  matthew willox: That's right.
• 16:43
  Glen Erickson: it.
• 16:43
  Glen Erickson: Totally
• 16:43
  matthew willox: Yes.
• 16:44
  matthew willox: So, you know, and then I just kind of like, it just, you just want something that you can kind of stick with.
• 16:49
  matthew willox: And it's, it's really funny, that the name matter warlocks kind of just makes me a little uncomfortable too, you know, like, like, and it, like, I have no explanation for it, but every time I hear it, I'm like, you know, I like wince a little bit.
• 17:02
  matthew willox: Like, and I'm like, Hey, you know what that is?
• 17:04
  matthew willox: That's just me feeling vulnerable.
• 17:07
  matthew willox: That's me coming up with an idea and putting it out in front of people and them seeing it and me being like, like, like the uncomfortableness you're feeling is that you just really like it.
• 17:18
  matthew willox: It's okay.
• 17:19
  matthew willox: Just like let it go.
• 17:20
  matthew willox: Right.
• 17:21
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 17:22
  Glen Erickson: No, that's great.
• 17:22
  Glen Erickson: So yeah, so there's like this thing about your story and your music, which is just so, I don't know what the word is, like riveting to me.
• 17:32
  Glen Erickson: Like, I feel like I wanna tell
• 17:34
  matthew willox: It was riveting to me.
• 17:36
  matthew willox: Yeah,
• 17:37
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, and maybe it's because I didn't know it before.
• 17:40
  Glen Erickson: I mean, there's obviously that element, and I've known you without knowing this story, and I think it's really cool.
• 17:47
  Glen Erickson: but I've, I've been able to observe different people's careers that, as we said, go up and down the mountain But, anyway, I appreciate the time doing this.
• 17:56
  Glen Erickson: We'll, like make our way through the whole thing.
• 18:00
  Glen Erickson: your fascination primarily, I think with the blending between, you know, the use of electronic, I know you say devices for lack of a better term, to create art, because for you, as you've self described, it's not just music, it's music and visual primarily.
• 18:20
  Glen Erickson: it's some way of translating, Things that are.
• 18:25
  Glen Erickson: You know, either happening in real time in your world and environment back into the machine and then back out to some creative expression is, is quite an interesting cycle.
• 18:37
  Glen Erickson: And you know, I, and for some people that's all that might be is just a version of, I like to play with these things and do this stuff for you.
• 18:47
  matthew willox: Absolutely.
• 18:48
  Glen Erickson: deeper and more philosophical even.
• 18:51
  Glen Erickson: Um, dare I even say, maybe spiritual if I'm, if I'm guessing, uh, that
• 18:56
  matthew willox: right on the money.
• 18:57
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 18:57
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 18:58
  Glen Erickson: That
• 18:58
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 18:59
  Glen Erickson: and that's why you're a lifer in this, um, which is so great.
• 19:04
  Glen Erickson: So you start
• 19:05
  matthew willox: And terrifying all at the same time.
• 19:07
  Glen Erickson: ter well, it is terrifying, right?
• 19:09
  Glen Erickson: Um, so you start doing all of this and exploring this.
• 19:14
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 19:14
  Glen Erickson: From a young age, you have like a family of sort of creative people around you that are, that are making things and expressing.
• 19:21
  Glen Erickson: So it's an easy in right, an easy entry point you, and you start making stuff, but you're drawn to the electronic stuff right away.
• 19:30
  Glen Erickson: So I'm, I'm,
• 19:31
  matthew willox: Which was super controversial in the inside, the in like, or how, like, you know, I remember
• 19:38
  Glen Erickson: it
• 19:39
  matthew willox: in the Willax bubble it was like, you're gonna make music on a computer.
• 19:42
  matthew willox: That's stupid.
• 19:43
  matthew willox: You know?
• 19:44
  matthew willox: Like, not probably being too hard on myself, but yeah, like, it, it's like, it know my, my uncles and they, they played a lot of music.
• 19:52
  matthew willox: My brother played the guitar and you know, we had like a family that would really share music and I remember listening to.
• 20:01
  matthew willox: I think it was like Shine on You Crazy Diamond by Pink Floyd.
• 20:06
  matthew willox: And you know, I was like, oh, I love this like, like analog synthesizer.
• 20:12
  matthew willox: I know who all that stuff is now, but at the time I was like, what is that?
• 20:15
  matthew willox: And you know, they're all like, I hate this part.
• 20:20
  matthew willox: You know,
• 20:21
  Glen Erickson: That's crazy.
• 20:22
  matthew willox: just get me to the, just get me to like the guitars and the singing and the, and the folk music ness of it, which is all great too.
• 20:29
  matthew willox: Um, but yeah, they were like really not, like, not bohemian against it, like, not like in opposition or anything like that, but like, why would you wanna make this?
• 20:39
  matthew willox: You know, like, why would you put this on a, this is, this is like, this is like Euro dance record, new wave stuff.
• 20:45
  matthew willox: What do we want this on our, on our Pink Floyd for kind of thing.
• 20:49
  matthew willox: And,
• 20:50
  Glen Erickson: uh, in
• 20:51
  matthew willox: or it's disco maybe.
• 20:52
  Glen Erickson: in 1986, I, in high school, I wrote a paper in my first computer science class, so I.
• 21:00
  Glen Erickson: wrote it on about midi, about the explosion of MIDI in 1986.
• 21:05
  matthew willox: Nice.
• 21:06
  Glen Erickson: um, and nobody, and I got like, I think a hundred,'cause my teacher had no idea what any of this stuff was and couldn't tell how much I plagiarized from a long McQuaid magazine.
• 21:16
  Glen Erickson: Um, but, and,
• 21:19
  matthew willox: of the most successful technologies ever developed.
• 21:21
  matthew willox: Like MIDI is like one of the, the greatest pieces of technology ever.
• 21:25
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 21:26
  Glen Erickson: And we had a, a, is it the Roland Juno, um, at
• 21:31
  matthew willox: Like a Juno 1 0 6.
• 21:32
  Glen Erickson: to, yeah, I was allowed to sign it out and bring it home.
• 21:35
  Glen Erickson: And I would just play with the, like those algorithms where you just like, press a key and then it would just start going and you would change all of like the LFO and all of those, you know, all of those things that were on a dial.
• 21:49
  Glen Erickson: But, um,
• 21:51
  matthew willox: Was this the Juno?
• 21:52
  matthew willox: Was this, was this the Juno 1 0 6 that they had at Vic Comp?
• 21:56
  matthew willox: Did they have, was it there?
• 21:57
  matthew willox: Was it, was that where you.
• 21:58
  Glen Erickson: at Vic Comp, I was in Saskatchewan, so this was
• 22:00
  matthew willox: oh yeah.
• 22:01
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 22:01
  Glen Erickson: of in the late eighties in Saskatchewan.
• 22:04
  Glen Erickson: Electronic music things were terribly earthy then.
• 22:07
  Glen Erickson: But So you're, you're in a family of guitar and folk guys who,
• 22:13
  matthew willox: So yeah, you don't, you don't really notice it, but you're.
• 22:17
  matthew willox: That's right.
• 22:17
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 22:18
  matthew willox: And you totally notice it, but you're just around music and you, you, you're trying to get access to the things that you want to do, and, but you're a kid, you know what I mean?
• 22:27
  matthew willox: Like, it's like you, you know, to your parents, like you wanting a Corg M1 so that you can go and make, you know, push it by salt and pepper is basically the same thing as you wanting a Super Nintendo, right?
• 22:39
  matthew willox: So you're like, mom, mom,
• 22:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 22:42
  matthew willox: get me one of these things.
• 22:43
  matthew willox: And they're, you know, like,
• 22:44
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 22:45
  matthew willox: you don't, you don't know that a Corg M1 is like$2,000 and a Super Nintendo is like 300 and the Super Nintendo is already expensive, right?
• 22:53
  matthew willox: So like, there's no way you're getting this, but you think maybe you got a shot if you, if you like, you know, put on your like, biggest puppy dog.
• 23:00
  matthew willox: I can go.
• 23:00
  matthew willox: Please.
• 23:01
  matthew willox: Come on.
• 23:02
  matthew willox: Right?
• 23:02
  matthew willox: Not happening.
• 23:03
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 23:04
  matthew willox: But what we did get was a computer and, um, very shortly afterwards, internet access, like very early, uh, through the library, um, got onto the internet.
• 23:19
  matthew willox: So I had like, it was basically on the internet since day one.
• 23:22
  matthew willox: It's really kind of funny too,'cause like I will see sort of different sort of waves in the internet and I'll be like, oh yeah, we like, this was like this time or whatever.
• 23:31
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 23:32
  matthew willox: It's like really blew my mind when the internet took off and got popular.
• 23:36
  matthew willox: I was like, you guys were just picking on me for being on this for like the last 10 years, you know, and now here you all are,
• 23:44
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 23:45
  matthew willox: wrestl, right?
• 23:47
  matthew willox: And um, like, uh, you're always on that computer and I'm like, well, you know, I'm looking at stuff right?
• 23:54
  matthew willox: And so that actually afforded me a lot of opportunity to see a lot of things that were going on in cutting edge computing at the time.
• 24:03
  matthew willox: So obviously this has a lot to do with like, what I end ended up going into as a career, because you're around all these ideas that are basically from universities.
• 24:13
  matthew willox: Like the internet in the early time was like all universities connected and all the people who were on there were like university students or like people in computing.
• 24:21
  matthew willox: And so all the things that they were talking about was like computer stuff now, you know, I'm like 14 or 15 or whatever and I'm like, I have no idea what they're talking about.
• 24:29
  matthew willox: But you go and look at it and you're like, cool.
• 24:32
  matthew willox: Or like, Hey, these guys made a game and it fits into like, you know, the super tiny file size and you go play that and you're like, wow.
• 24:39
  matthew willox: And.
• 24:40
  matthew willox: that scene, it's called the demo scene.
• 24:43
  matthew willox: If you look it up, it's called the demo scene.
• 24:45
  matthew willox: That's where my first musical instrument, which was this tracker software came out of, and it's basically video game music.
• 24:52
  matthew willox: You know, like, that's like the best way to describe it, to like, you know, you're using this like super low level technology to arrange data, essentially.
• 25:03
  matthew willox: Like, I mean, it looks like a spreadsheet.
• 25:05
  matthew willox: If I showed it to you, you'd be like, how is this not just Excel?
• 25:08
  matthew willox: You're like, yeah.
• 25:11
  matthew willox: You know, uh, it, it is, it kind of is like Excel and so you're making, and so.
• 25:16
  Glen Erickson: music.
• 25:17
  Glen Erickson: That's like, uh, I've never heard that term.
• 25:19
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 25:19
  matthew willox: And so here you have like a family of people who are beautiful.
• 25:23
  matthew willox: They play bass guitars, they play real guitars, they play upright bass, they have the flute, and you're like, check it out the computer.
• 25:33
  Glen Erickson: Bleep,
• 25:33
  matthew willox: You know?
• 25:35
  matthew willox: And so it's not even like, it's not even like you were like the punk, it was more like you were like this troll under the bridge who was like, you can make music with computers.
• 25:43
  matthew willox: Right?
• 25:43
  matthew willox: And, yeah, I don't know.
• 25:44
  matthew willox: It's, it just, it just didn't click.
• 25:46
  matthew willox: you know, at first I sort of feel like, I don't think it ever really ever clicked with my dad.
• 25:51
  matthew willox: I feel, I still feel like maybe even to this day, like, you do work on the internet?
• 25:56
  matthew willox: And I'm like, yeah.
• 25:57
  matthew willox: It's like, what even is that, you know?
• 25:59
  matthew willox: I'm like, well, you know, when you check your email anyways, like, we could go down this rabbit hole.
• 26:03
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 26:04
  Glen Erickson: that joke that we, what are we even doing
• 26:06
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 26:07
  matthew willox: Right.
• 26:08
  Glen Erickson: but you moved on.
• 26:09
  Glen Erickson: Obviously it's paid off.
• 26:11
  Glen Erickson: Like we can say, we can say thankfully for everybody, it's paid off like.
• 26:15
  Glen Erickson: and I work together.
• 26:16
  Glen Erickson: We have jobs.
• 26:17
  Glen Erickson: We
• 26:18
  matthew willox: yep.
• 26:18
  Glen Erickson: the, the gery paid off.
• 26:20
  Glen Erickson: But so you
• 26:21
  matthew willox: Absolutely.
• 26:22
  Glen Erickson: and I, you, you sort of listed like that you put some things up on mp3.com in 98,
• 26:29
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 26:30
  Glen Erickson: at, at that time, that was like, I mean, I don't know.
• 26:33
  Glen Erickson: I, I always feel like I have to frame this and maybe I don't, but it feels that's really still birth of the internet time.
• 26:40
  Glen Erickson: Like I made my first website in 1995 and nobody knew what websites were.
• 26:44
  Glen Erickson: And mp3.com coming along is basically the immediate birth of MP threes.
• 26:49
  Glen Erickson: And, so
• 26:51
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 26:52
  Glen Erickson: those who were online, which isn't like everybody now, right.
• 26:55
  Glen Erickson: So it was still felt like a subset.
• 26:57
  Glen Erickson: They were clamoring to find everything they could find, And so that first putting things up there had, a pretty positive impact.
• 27:07
  Glen Erickson: For you, is that a kind of a kickstart kind of time for you?
• 27:10
  matthew willox: It is.
• 27:11
  matthew willox: And I had an 80 megabyte hard drive at the time.
• 27:16
  matthew willox: And to make an MP three, I had a program that was actually just a piece of research technology from a white paper, from like some company called Frown Hoffer in Germany, that that was the company that invented MP three.
• 27:31
  matthew willox: And so, you know, you would get this thing and you could take your sound recording.
• 27:35
  matthew willox: That was like eating up a quarter of your hard drive and like turn it into this little thing, right?
• 27:41
  matthew willox: And so mp3.com became kind of like a second hard drive.
• 27:46
  matthew willox: Where I would just make the song, put it into MP three and upload it there.
• 27:51
  matthew willox: And I was like, oh, now it's on this thing.
• 27:54
  matthew willox: I don't need to have it on my computer anymore.
• 27:56
  matthew willox: It's like up there and like, you know, very shortly after upgraded and got a lot more stuff.
• 28:01
  matthew willox: But, um, at that very initial time, that was kind of what it was to me.
• 28:06
  matthew willox: It was like I could finish something and put it up on this website or, or even before that would, would be on BBSs and stuff like that.
• 28:14
  matthew willox: Not even as MP threes, but as like the actual mod files that I was making in the tracker.
• 28:18
  matthew willox: And, you know, just was in the habit of just like making something and being like, done up on that thing.
• 28:23
  matthew willox: 'cause it just couldn't sit around.
• 28:25
  matthew willox: It just didn't have the space.
• 28:26
  matthew willox: It didn't have like a, you know, three terabyte hard drive on my computer that just load up with like, you know, infinity.
• 28:32
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 28:32
  matthew willox: So Only sort of like very, like very shortly after that started to think of like, you know,'cause it's, you know, the website's asking you, like, put a bio picture here, like, what's your title image look like?
• 28:45
  matthew willox: And I start making that stuff just because it's sort of like, you know, you, you log into your little MP three.com thing and it looks empty and you're like, okay, well let's dress it up a little bit with some stuff.
• 28:55
  matthew willox: And that's where kind of like all, and then I'm like, well I need like a cool name.
• 28:59
  matthew willox: You know, like, like I actually figured that name out in this room that I'm in right now.
• 29:05
  matthew willox: Um, like, yeah, with a dictionary.
• 29:07
  matthew willox: I had this huge dictionary, it was like a really old school dictionary and you know, was just like literally reading every word in the dictionary, going like, what can I do?
• 29:16
  matthew willox: And I came across Spark and I was like, ah, that's really cool.
• 29:18
  matthew willox: It's short, it's punchy, it's got lots of good angles on it, you know, I can work with that.
• 29:23
  matthew willox: and that was it.
• 29:24
  matthew willox: Away we go.
• 29:25
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 29:25
  Glen Erickson: I mean, everybody, you know, in that, embryonic stage of music, there's a bunch of things that play, right?
• 29:32
  Glen Erickson: It's like you're just trying to get better.
• 29:34
  Glen Erickson: You're just trying to get good enough that people will care maybe.
• 29:38
  Glen Erickson: And you need that.
• 29:39
  Glen Erickson: You want that validation.
• 29:40
  Glen Erickson: then you're looking so actively for all the places you can actually get it into, the people who feel about music the way you do, right?
• 29:49
  Glen Erickson: So there's a sense of looking for community.
• 29:52
  Glen Erickson: then if any of that happens, you're also starting to feel like, like what are the possibilities?
• 29:59
  Glen Erickson: And so, you know, when I look at, you know, you got to a point where you said uh, all of a sudden it went from just releasing some of my music or putting it up there to, now I'm being asked to score.
• 30:09
  Glen Erickson: Projects for students at MIT or, or music on TaeKwonDo CD ROMs and producing tracks for the oiler scoreboard.
• 30:18
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 30:18
  Glen Erickson: Or, or these things happening, you know, which is like, you're out of the bedroom, like you're, that's out of the bedroom shit.
• 30:24
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 30:25
  Glen Erickson: And that's when, the, to me, the first flip to another level, and then you go from up there to getting to a, a another level of a place.
• 30:34
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 30:34
  Glen Erickson: So what, because I'm not familiar in electronic music, I'm wondering in your feeling of the trajectory, what were the things that you were having to discover, you know, a, to build the community and the validation, but also the opportunities where the, what ifs started becoming bigger and more real for you?
• 30:51
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 30:52
  matthew willox: And okay, so, you know, I start doing these projects and, and like it's.
• 30:57
  matthew willox: It's really hard to describe this because my, like, lead up to actually getting a tool to write music with was so long.
• 31:04
  matthew willox: I had already like really educated myself on what music was like.
• 31:10
  matthew willox: I already had kind of like habits of criti critical listening and being like, what is that chord?
• 31:15
  matthew willox: You know what I mean?
• 31:15
  matthew willox: And like figuring all these different things out about music and identifying sounds and equipment that was being used, uh, to make music.
• 31:23
  matthew willox: Uh, like there's a site called Hyper Reel and on there you could go and look up a song, you know, so you could, you could go and look up Headlight the Hole and be like, what instruments were used in making this right?
• 31:35
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 31:35
  matthew willox: And you know, and then it would have like samples of them.
• 31:38
  matthew willox: So, so you know, if it was like a, you know, like an eliss, you know, DR 16 or whatever that, I can't even remember what it's called.
• 31:45
  matthew willox: Like, it's like this like bog standard drum machine they had through the eighties and nineties.
• 31:50
  matthew willox: You could just be like, oh, that's the instrument that's doing that.
• 31:53
  matthew willox: Here's the samples of it.
• 31:54
  matthew willox: If I wanna make drums that sound like this, just go and grab this.
• 31:57
  matthew willox: So by the time I started making tracks, they were already pretty good.
• 32:02
  matthew willox: You know, it wasn't like I started making music and everyone around me was like, Ugh.
• 32:06
  matthew willox: Right.
• 32:07
  matthew willox: It's like there was like a taste level there that I already had.
• 32:10
  matthew willox: And like, it's kind of funny, I, I kind of think to myself sometimes, like, you came out fully forged, I'm gonna die fully forged.
• 32:17
  matthew willox: And like, you're just kind of made out of metal.
• 32:19
  matthew willox: Like, you're never going to change.
• 32:21
  matthew willox: You know, you're never gonna get better, you're never gonna get worse.
• 32:24
  matthew willox: It's just, you just are right.
• 32:26
  matthew willox: And I don't, I don't think that that's actually true.
• 32:28
  matthew willox: Like, there's like a plasticity in your brain that kind of makes it seem that way, but
• 32:32
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 32:33
  matthew willox: that's how it helped at the time.
• 32:34
  matthew willox: So when I started making this stuff, uh, you know, for CD ROMs and I started making stuff for the oiler scoreboard, this was like people who were Remy, you know, friends and family who heard this stuff and were like.
• 32:46
  matthew willox: This guy can actually write music.
• 32:48
  matthew willox: Like, why don't we just get him to do it?
• 32:49
  matthew willox: You know, he's a kid, right?
• 32:51
  matthew willox: Just,
• 32:52
  Glen Erickson: Yep,
• 32:52
  matthew willox: hey, we need, we need, you know, an hour of music for this thing.
• 32:55
  matthew willox: Can you do that?
• 32:55
  matthew willox: And you're like, sure.
• 32:56
  matthew willox: Right.
• 32:57
  matthew willox: And you just go and do it.
• 32:58
  matthew willox: And like, you're in such a habit of just making music and putting on something and, and releasing it.
• 33:04
  matthew willox: And I remember buying my first like CD burner and going with my dad to like CompuServe or whatever it was, the computer store that was downtown.
• 33:12
  matthew willox: And, and being like, you know, he's like, my son needs a CD burner, you know, and, you know, he has no idea what I'm doing or what the hell this thing is, right?
• 33:23
  matthew willox: And, and like it hooks up to the computer with like the serial port and have like, you know, like, I'm like, no, I somehow I know exactly what to do, hook all this stuff up and burn CDs with it is great.
• 33:35
  matthew willox: Play'em in the car.
• 33:36
  matthew willox: And, like, it was just very natural, like very organic.
• 33:39
  matthew willox: Like I'm making the thing, I'm making the thing.
• 33:41
  matthew willox: People start using that thing basically for what they're doing.
• 33:44
  matthew willox: Right.
• 33:45
  matthew willox: So you kind of grow in the direction of like you are creating a creative resource, I guess for other people.
• 33:52
  matthew willox: That's a kind of like a, a really like mechanical reductionist way of looking at it, but like people are like, Hey, this is great.
• 33:58
  matthew willox: I'll use this in my thing.
• 33:59
  matthew willox: Thanks kid.
• 34:00
  Glen Erickson: Well, let
• 34:00
  matthew willox: You know?
• 34:00
  Glen Erickson: me frame it Matthew against, though the typical, I'll just frame, is it maybe Canadian, but maybe North American music journey, which is you're, making music or art and you're trying to force everybody to come to you though.
• 34:15
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 34:16
  Glen Erickson: Like the, that typical story is gotta book shows, I gotta try and get gigs, I gotta have people watch me.
• 34:22
  Glen Erickson: I'd have to get them to go to the record store and buy my music or download it what you're describing as like your music is going out and becoming a part of all these things other people are doing and it's giving you an opportunity to do more.
• 34:38
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 34:38
  matthew willox: And you know, I think I always knew what the hell I was doing.
• 34:42
  matthew willox: Like I, you know, I, I knew what I was doing.
• 34:46
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 34:46
  matthew willox: And I always do, but I don't always know what it's for.
• 34:50
  matthew willox: Do you know what, you know what I mean?
• 34:52
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 34:52
  matthew willox: Like.
• 34:52
  matthew willox: I'm like, I'm gonna make this thing and it needs to be XY Like, I know exactly what it's like, the visions in my head, I see it in there.
• 34:59
  matthew willox: But that's pretty much it.
• 35:01
  matthew willox: Like once it's made, uh, you know what the purpose of it is that's larger than that.
• 35:07
  matthew willox: It makes like, I just wouldn't, I wouldn't even occur to me.
• 35:12
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 35:13
  Glen Erickson: never stopped you.
• 35:14
  Glen Erickson: Is that what you're saying though?
• 35:15
  Glen Erickson: Like that question has never stopped you from making it, right?
• 35:18
  matthew willox: People ask me that question, like, I'll make something, you know, I've even made stuff at, at work and people have been like, well, what's the point of this?
• 35:26
  matthew willox: Right?
• 35:27
  matthew willox: Like, why have you made this?
• 35:28
  matthew willox: And I'm like, I don't know.
• 35:31
  matthew willox: Right.
• 35:32
  matthew willox: I had the idea, I did it.
• 35:34
  matthew willox: like once that thing is there, you know, usually when I, when I actually, you know, put my mind to it and actually like, you know, make it, and I'm gonna make this thing, it's beautiful.
• 35:45
  matthew willox: I love it.
• 35:46
  matthew willox: It's, and it feels that way for a really long time.
• 35:49
  matthew willox: You know, like, uh, like if I make something a, a piece of computer art or anything, like, I'll listen to it, like, or, or look at it like 10 years later I'll be like, man, you know, this still hits the way I, the way it did the first time I made it.
• 36:01
  matthew willox: And I think that the larger purpose of things, to be honest, and maybe this is kind of a, uh, an interesting way of putting it, it just never seemed like to me like I had any chance of going anywhere to do anything.
• 36:15
  matthew willox: You know?
• 36:16
  matthew willox: And I think a lot of people were telling me that at the time, you know, kid, if you don't do good in algebra, like you're gonna like end up on the street.
• 36:24
  matthew willox: you'll be like, like that guy pushing that shopping cart.
• 36:26
  matthew willox: And this was like the way people would communicate, like my level of activities to, of like for school things to me.
• 36:32
  matthew willox: Like I was like, you know, I wasn't really that great in school.
• 36:34
  matthew willox: I was smart.
• 36:36
  matthew willox: I could do well on tests, but I was like, you know, I'd get to school and be like, how soon can I get outta here?
• 36:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 36:42
  matthew willox: Right.
• 36:42
  matthew willox: Um, except in art classes, which I was great computer class, which I just like destroyed.
• 36:47
  matthew willox: I was like amazing at that stuff.
• 36:49
  matthew willox: And it just, you know, like obviously was just something that I had, I had around.
• 36:53
  matthew willox: And you know, I think that as I moved through those different layers up into like when somebody, like when, when Mike Adu, who runs the record label, N five md, that's was my first release, came to me.
• 37:06
  matthew willox: He came to me.
• 37:07
  matthew willox: And he said, Hey, I wanna put this song of yours that you put up on MP three to com on my label.
• 37:12
  matthew willox: It's gonna be the first track on the first thing.
• 37:13
  matthew willox: And you know, I've got the, I've actually got the, the mini disc right here.
• 37:18
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 37:19
  matthew willox: And so it's act, it's actually a mini disc.
• 37:21
  matthew willox: Right.
• 37:21
  Glen Erickson: that's a
• 37:22
  matthew willox: You know, uh, And they're, they're really cool.
• 37:23
  matthew willox: I wish they, I wish, you know, they'd stick around and, I know that, uh, like the idea of like sending in a press kit, like, you know, it's really funny.
• 37:31
  matthew willox: I do all that stuff now.
• 37:32
  matthew willox: Like any musical activity that you did as a teenager that you wanted to get your music known I am doing now as an adult.
• 37:39
  matthew willox: And it's like, you know,'cause you're like, oh, it'd be really cool to play this show.
• 37:42
  matthew willox: It'd be really cool to play this festival.
• 37:44
  matthew willox: And, you know, you've got all this work behind you that you've done.
• 37:48
  matthew willox: But, you know, I I, I feel like for whatever reason I was, I was, I.
• 37:53
  matthew willox: Uh, and I even feel that way in my career.
• 37:55
  matthew willox: It's like I was just on a trajectory that was being pushed up by a larger movement, you know, this sort of like digitalization of everything and, that really catapulted me into places.
• 38:06
  matthew willox: Just, just early adopter, just like going in and grabbing that first technology.
• 38:10
  matthew willox: And I think that, you know, I still tried to do that like maybe like four or five years ago, like with stuff like, you know, it's embarrassing to even kind of bring it up, but like, you know, I try to make like NFTs and stuff like that, and I thought, well, this is the latest technology.
• 38:26
  matthew willox: This is the latest thing, and this is that next bubble.
• 38:28
  matthew willox: This is the next kind of like wave to ride essentially.
• 38:32
  matthew willox: And I mean, I don't, I don't really know how I, well, I mean, I know that I don't like the people who run those companies, so I don't really, you know, I don't really engage with that.
• 38:41
  matthew willox: But, you know, that's the, That technological era might be coming to an end.
• 38:47
  matthew willox: You know, even with stuff like ai, it's like, how can I use AI to like, you know, promote music?
• 38:51
  matthew willox: Like what?
• 38:52
  matthew willox: I get it to make the music now, like I'm not gonna do that.
• 38:55
  matthew willox: and so, yeah.
• 38:56
  matthew willox: And so maybe that wave is over and, and the, the, the flip side that is now all that stuff that you learn to do as a teenager and, and, and work as a band and promote your music.
• 39:08
  matthew willox: I have to learn now from scratch after already having a career in music like that.
• 39:15
  matthew willox: Just sort of like, like by grace and by effort got given to me and really, you know, I think the, the tale is, I didn't even know what the hell to do with it.
• 39:25
  matthew willox: It wasn't like, there's like this really, like a, friend of mine, Uh, max Uli, he's a dj.
• 39:30
  matthew willox: I was playing a show with him, and he comes up to me and he's like, you know, man, you had like, he, you had this town, this town being Vancouver, and the palm of your hand, and you threw it all away.
• 39:41
  matthew willox: And I was like, what are you talking about?
• 39:43
  matthew willox: It's like, dude, I can barely make my rent every month.
• 39:47
  matthew willox: You know what I mean?
• 39:47
  matthew willox: It's like, if I had a whole town like Vancouver in the palm of my hand, I feel like there would be some sort of message back from that town that like, we're gonna, you know, this, like, you're gonna make it.
• 40:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 40:00
  matthew willox: We've got you.
• 40:01
  matthew willox: Right?
• 40:01
  matthew willox: And it was like, there was nothing, it's like every single thing that I did, I'd always have to like, you know, you, you have to put the, you do the work, you put the workout, and you see what comes back and you know, if nothing comes back, you don't.
• 40:15
  matthew willox: Do anything, right?
• 40:16
  matthew willox: Like, like, you know what I mean?
• 40:17
  matthew willox: Like, there's that next step and, and you know, I feel like if I had had a mentor or a coach or someone who cared, like anyone who cared enough to kind of talk to me every day and be like, well, like why don't you try this?
• 40:30
  matthew willox: Why don't you try this?
• 40:31
  matthew willox: And that's what my friend Jen Pearson was kind of like, very early on in Vancouver, like, Hey, come play this show.
• 40:36
  matthew willox: Hey, come do this.
• 40:37
  matthew willox: But I was already hitting the bricks before that, like giving my CDs to nightclubs and be like, Hey, I play this kind of music, you know, like, would you guys want to have me do a live set or something like that.
• 40:45
  matthew willox: And it was like, you know, guy in the coffee shops like, jerk, come in next week on Thursday, play your show.
• 40:51
  matthew willox: Right?
• 40:51
  matthew willox: And you know, like, you know, you're already, you're already, you know, you're doing that sort of thing and you're on a label.
• 40:56
  matthew willox: So that carries with it a certain kind of, uh, you know, your reputation kind of per
• 41:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 41:01
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 41:01
  matthew willox: Right.
• 41:01
  matthew willox: You, you know, like you're, you're, you're validated essentially.
• 41:04
  matthew willox: you know, but I think.
• 41:05
  Glen Erickson: Matthew, is like this, like even back to the start of what you were saying here,
• 41:09
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 41:09
  Glen Erickson: It made me feel like this age old, uh, debate about art for art's sake.
• 41:14
  Glen Erickson: but really what you got into describing to me is how, you know, you're being able to look back right now and say, I was just riding a wave.
• 41:22
  matthew willox: Hmm.
• 41:23
  Glen Erickson: this has
• 41:23
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 41:23
  Glen Erickson: a lot over musical history of, who, who was at the top of that wave, or at least in that wave, Because when you talk to the people that became famously, or significantly attached to those waves, they always talk about all the people didn't get known, That were sort of the foundation for them.
• 41:47
  Glen Erickson: And I guess when I read about your stuff, and I hear you say that, I feel like, do you ever feel like you were a part of a foundation, maybe, that a lot of other people maybe got a little more significance or career.
• 41:59
  Glen Erickson: Out of, because the way they did it, maybe like what you're describing is the other tension between, I was just making the stuff, I wasn't figuring out all the other things, like the business of it.
• 42:09
  Glen Erickson: Like you're having to figure out now that you know, my promotional work is like maybe more than 50% of the time it takes to be able to do anything with my music.
• 42:19
  Glen Erickson: And if you weren't doing that at the time when you were just creating, and opportunities were coming to you because you were a part of a wave, it sounds like you're
• 42:26
  matthew willox: I think
• 42:27
  Glen Erickson: I missed out on things because that's all it was for me then.
• 42:31
  matthew willox: Yes, absolutely.
• 42:32
  matthew willox: And so I think that, you know, when someone says, Hey, you know, I wanna put your music in this thing, and you're like, great, I.
• 42:39
  matthew willox: Here you go.
• 42:40
  matthew willox: I, I make music.
• 42:41
  matthew willox: I'm a resource for this stuff.
• 42:42
  matthew willox: Come get it.
• 42:43
  matthew willox: Um, when someone's like, Hey, I wanna put you on my label and I want it to be this song, I really love it.
• 42:48
  matthew willox: I'm like, go for it.
• 42:50
  matthew willox: Right.
• 42:51
  matthew willox: Um, you know, I'm, I, you know, I don't wanna be like, I wasn't thinking of the business aspects of it, but like, let's put it this way, the business aspects of those, of that music was like, if I, if you were to like, be like at that time, Hey Matthew, what do you think you need to do as a business person to make this music, you know, more popular?
• 43:11
  matthew willox: I think the answer would've just been hilariously oversimplified.
• 43:16
  matthew willox: And I'm like, well, I need it to get it in front of more people.
• 43:19
  matthew willox: Right.
• 43:19
  matthew willox: And you're like, okay.
• 43:20
  matthew willox: Like, how are you gonna do that?
• 43:23
  matthew willox: Right.
• 43:24
  matthew willox: And I would've had absolutely no idea what to do.
• 43:27
  Glen Erickson: so common, Matthew.
• 43:28
  Glen Erickson: Like I've
• 43:28
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 43:29
  Glen Erickson: programs now,
• 43:30
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 43:31
  Glen Erickson: that's literally, that's the early answer.
• 43:33
  Glen Erickson: That's always the same thing.
• 43:34
  Glen Erickson: They're like, how do I get this in front of more people?
• 43:36
  Glen Erickson: And they think that that's the solution.
• 43:38
  matthew willox: But, but here's the thing though.
• 43:39
  matthew willox: It's like I had no excuse.
• 43:40
  matthew willox: I worked in marketing, I worked at a huge advertising agency, so I was just, I was just a goddamn kid, you know what I mean?
• 43:47
  matthew willox: Like, I had no clue what the hell I was doing.
• 43:49
  matthew willox: Right.
• 43:49
  matthew willox: And I knew, I knew that if you got the tool into my hand and you were like, you know, if you gave me the Samurai sword and you were like, go cut that thing, no problem.
• 43:58
  matthew willox: Where the Samurai sword came from or who the thing I'm cutting is no clue.
• 44:03
  matthew willox: Right?
• 44:03
  matthew willox: and you know, uh, guys like, uh, Patrick Didi, he was a DJ in Vancouver, Jenson, uh, who you know, was my friend, and they had a night, or they worked on a night called Void.
• 44:14
  matthew willox: And they would bring in big artists.
• 44:16
  matthew willox: Like they would bring in like, uh, like warp records artists, um, like plaid or square pusher.
• 44:23
  matthew willox: You know, these people who in my scene of music were like the, the big stars.
• 44:27
  matthew willox: And you know, they were like.
• 44:28
  matthew willox: Hey, you should play at our night.
• 44:30
  matthew willox: You know?
• 44:31
  matthew willox: And to me it just was like, yeah, cool.
• 44:34
  matthew willox: Let's go have fun.
• 44:35
  matthew willox: And like, it's a, it's, I'm gonna go play it at a nightclub and it, you know, I make this art and, and
• 44:43
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 44:44
  matthew willox: it is seriously, like, was that innocent?
• 44:48
  matthew willox: And I had very little opinions about why you should do it.
• 44:53
  matthew willox: Or who you should do it for.
• 44:55
  matthew willox: Just that like, it was just kind of like, man.
• 44:58
  matthew willox: And I think like when I was a kid, I was just so lonely and so lost that I just like got into like making techno for people on the internet and I kept doing that and eventually they were like, here's a stage.
• 45:09
  matthew willox: Right.
• 45:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 45:11
  matthew willox: And I think that there is, there is a real beauty to that.
• 45:15
  matthew willox: Like I think that, you know, when you think about that and, and you know, like, uh, I, I hope some of my friends end up, end up listening to this and they, and they hear me talk about them.
• 45:23
  matthew willox: Because I think they did a lot for me, and I don't think other than playing those shows ever really had an opportunity to do anything for them.
• 45:32
  matthew willox: And so that kind of creates this asymmetric relationship where it's like you, you're, you're taking right, but you don't know that that's what you're doing.
• 45:41
  matthew willox: You're just sort of like, yeah, we're cool.
• 45:43
  matthew willox: We we're the cool people making stuff, you know?
• 45:45
  matthew willox: And like, here's a stage and like, let's rock and roll.
• 45:48
  matthew willox: Right.
• 45:48
  matthew willox: And, you know, to have someone say to you, like, you, you threw it away is kind of like, I.
• 45:54
  matthew willox: What, what did they see?
• 45:56
  matthew willox: And I still don't know.
• 45:57
  matthew willox: And it's, it's one of those things where, You know what I mean?
• 45:59
  matthew willox: And like, I felt all of that at that time and that was like really weighing on me at that time being like, what am I, why?
• 46:07
  matthew willox: You know, it's kind of funny to say, I think there's a part of me that wished that I was kind of like, have you ever seen Blade Runner 2049?
• 46:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 46:15
  matthew willox: seen that movie?
• 46:15
  matthew willox: Okay, so, so the, the, the, the robot child who is like in the bubble making the dreams and everyone comes to them and like, Hey, you make the memories, and they're like completely sealed off from the world.
• 46:29
  matthew willox: I sort of feel like as an artist, I wish I could have just stayed that and never really, and just people would just come, they would just come in and knock on the glass and be like, I need some completely fucking insane, like wild rave banger, you know?
• 46:45
  matthew willox: And you'd be like, cool, I'll have that to you tomorrow.
• 46:48
  matthew willox: Come back and get it.
• 46:49
  matthew willox: Right.
• 46:51
  matthew willox: Right.
• 46:52
  matthew willox: And, and, you know, uh, never really had to like, deal with the like
• 46:58
  Glen Erickson: like, uh, genie thing where you would
• 47:01
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 47:02
  Glen Erickson: in and get the, whatever the,
• 47:04
  matthew willox: So far.
• 47:05
  matthew willox: So far, yeah.
• 47:06
  Glen Erickson: like you wanna be like this magical, like electronic so far.
• 47:11
  matthew willox: Yeah, basically.
• 47:12
  matthew willox: And, and you know, you can't be, you know,'cause I feel like at the end of the day everybody wants to be that.
• 47:17
  matthew willox: Everyone wants that.
• 47:18
  matthew willox: Everyone wants to be the kind of like golden boy and like, you know, his comment that I threw it away was really funny'cause like the number of tries it took to get to that show where I was playing with him was like two records worth of work
• 47:32
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 47:32
  matthew willox: and, and giving it to them and being like, do you like this?
• 47:35
  matthew willox: Do you like this?
• 47:36
  matthew willox: And I remember there was like a burrito shop near my place called Budgies Burritos.
• 47:40
  matthew willox: And I walked in there one day and they're all in there eating burritos.
• 47:43
  matthew willox: Like, like, you know, um, a, a bunch of them and I had just sent over a thing to them and they're all like, Matthew, oh yeah, this thing you sent us, it's fucking great.
• 47:54
  matthew willox: Like, let's do it.
• 47:55
  matthew willox: You know what I mean?
• 47:56
  matthew willox: And I remember being like, I don't even need a burrito now.
• 48:00
  matthew willox: Like, I just like, I have like received this, like, like, you know what I mean?
• 48:03
  matthew willox: Like, like
• 48:04
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 48:05
  matthew willox: isn't, this is like, this is like, I have made something or, or how about this?
• 48:10
  matthew willox: I have seen something and been like, wow, that's so inspiring.
• 48:14
  matthew willox: Made the thing and been like, I want to get on that stage.
• 48:18
  matthew willox: I.
• 48:19
  matthew willox: Given it to them, faced rejection, given it to them, received, uh, uh, you know, the, the validation from them and then got on the show.
• 48:28
  matthew willox: And, you know, that, that to me, just at that time in my life was like just a huge victory.
• 48:34
  matthew willox: And, you know, the, and, and, you know, and, and, and so, you know, of course I just pulled the Brinks truck up and filled it up with bags of money and drove home, right?
• 48:44
  Glen Erickson: no.
• 48:45
  Glen Erickson: Well, let me say this, Matthew.
• 48:46
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I think that's one of the most relatable things you could say.
• 48:50
  Glen Erickson: So it doesn't
• 48:51
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 48:51
  Glen Erickson: genre of music we're talking about, right?
• 48:54
  Glen Erickson: You just described this experience of
• 48:57
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 48:57
  Glen Erickson: this thing that inspired me
• 49:00
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 49:00
  Glen Erickson: and art is art to me.
• 49:02
  Glen Erickson: It doesn't matter what medium we're even talking about.
• 49:05
  Glen Erickson: It's
• 49:05
  matthew willox: Now,
• 49:06
  Glen Erickson: I have something inside of me and I have to pull it out and make it like tactile or something.
• 49:13
  Glen Erickson: Do you know what I mean?
• 49:14
  Glen Erickson: That someone
• 49:14
  matthew willox: yep.
• 49:15
  Glen Erickson: can see it?
• 49:16
  Glen Erickson: Is it even real?
• 49:18
  Glen Erickson: This is why we joke about what we make on the internet.
• 49:20
  Glen Erickson: Is it even real?
• 49:21
  Glen Erickson: It's not real until somebody else can experience and see it.
• 49:25
  Glen Erickson: Hopefully the way I was seeing it, and that's art, this expression, and you're just describing this experience of I saw this thing, it inspired me and I went and I needed to make it.
• 49:37
  Glen Erickson: And maybe the first iterations weren't good, but I kept making it until it was good enough that the people who made it and inspired me saw it and felt the same way.
• 49:48
  Glen Erickson: It.
• 49:48
  Glen Erickson: That's what we're all, that's what we've all been doing.
• 49:51
  Glen Erickson: Like I've worked with, you know, 17-year-old country artists who just want, you know, the, the amount of work they do to just be able to spin that the same way as the one who inspired them to do it.
• 50:04
  Glen Erickson: That's everything.
• 50:06
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 50:07
  matthew willox: Um, and I have this really distinct memory.
• 50:10
  matthew willox: It was like Leida played their first sort of show and they had like a bunch of artists who were all playing stuff and there was an artist, um, Kalka, or Kalka, can't remember exactly how to pronounce it.
• 50:21
  matthew willox: He was playing a show and I remember the very, the very beginning.
• 50:27
  matthew willox: Of his set was just like cricket sounds and like jungle ambience and you know, kind of like this, like baseline playing underneath it.
• 50:37
  matthew willox: And like, I just like, I just, you know, like the memory's just like so vivid of that moment and being like, you can, you can, like, you know, if you were to, if you were to talk to somebody a week previous and being like someone was playing cricket sounds at their show, you would've been like, yeah, what?
• 50:58
  matthew willox: Do you know what I mean?
• 50:58
  matthew willox: Like, why would they do, like why would you do that?
• 51:01
  matthew willox: That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
• 51:03
  matthew willox: Right.
• 51:03
  matthew willox: And, you know, but then painted this, this sort of like, ambiance and like just built on it and layers and layers and layers of texture and base on top of that.
• 51:14
  matthew willox: And it just blew my mind, you know, like I really couldn't even handle it.
• 51:18
  matthew willox: Like, I walked outta there and like, I swear to God, I didn't even sleep that night because I was just like.
• 51:24
  matthew willox: Wow.
• 51:25
  matthew willox: Like there's just like, you know, I'm way off base, like everything that I'm doing is wrong.
• 51:29
  matthew willox: Like, why am I doing it this way?
• 51:30
  matthew willox: You know what I mean?
• 51:31
  matthew willox: Like, you're just in a fugue now.
• 51:33
  matthew willox: Like, you know, your brain's just like
• 51:36
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 51:36
  matthew willox: And, um, yeah.
• 51:39
  matthew willox: Right.
• 51:39
  matthew willox: And I real like, you know, it's really, I, I really, I really think that like, as I've grown as an, as an artist and grown, you know, into an adult who like, takes more responsibility for the things that I'm doing, I really think that, you know, when you are creating something, like coming up with a theory about what it is or how it's made and producing it is kind of like, it's, it's like you can, I don't wanna be like, you can manufacture inspiration for other people because I think that that is very tricky and like, probably just impossible.
• 52:13
  matthew willox: Like it's serendipity just doesn't work that way.
• 52:15
  matthew willox: But I.
• 52:17
  matthew willox: If you, if you, if you just come up with the idea and come up with all the like, little pieces for it, you kind of end up making something that will never fall apart under any circumstance.
• 52:26
  matthew willox: Like, it'll always just sort of be rock solid.
• 52:29
  matthew willox: And I think that this is one of those things where we see modern art, where someone tapes a banana to the wall and, you know, we're like, it's art.
• 52:37
  matthew willox: And like, I think what actually drives people so crazy about stuff like that is like, you have nothing to go at it with.
• 52:45
  matthew willox: You know what I mean?
• 52:46
  matthew willox: Like, that idea is so pure and so completely done that it's like you're like, like opening your mouth to try to criticize it is like your downfall, right?
• 52:56
  matthew willox: Where you're like, well, it's just a banana taped to a wall.
• 52:59
  matthew willox: And you're like, yeah.
• 52:59
  matthew willox: So tell me like why that, why you think that that's wrong or like,
• 53:04
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 53:04
  Glen Erickson: The conversation becomes, no, it's not all the other things.
• 53:10
  matthew willox: That's right.
• 53:10
  Glen Erickson: a banana and tape and a
• 53:12
  matthew willox: That's right.
• 53:13
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 53:14
  Glen Erickson: absence and the choice of, I know, whatever we could
• 53:17
  matthew willox: Yeah,
• 53:17
  Glen Erickson: um,
• 53:18
  matthew willox: for sure.
• 53:19
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 53:19
  matthew willox: Anyways, you know, you sort of know what I'm saying there.
• 53:21
  matthew willox: Like, it, it, you're, you're, yeah.
• 53:24
  matthew willox: Anyways, it's, uh, yeah, continue.
• 53:27
  Glen Erickson: ask you this, Matthew,'cause
• 53:29
  matthew willox: Sure.
• 53:29
  Glen Erickson: like in your timeline, so to speak, uh, for lack of a better term, but this effort of you, of what you're going through, the iterations, the opportunities, you know, I, I I, I sort of referenced the late nineties and even like getting make electronic tracks for the Oilers scoreboard, right?
• 53:50
  Glen Erickson: That'd
• 53:50
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 53:51
  Glen Erickson: some version of a huge win for a kid, young kid in Edmonton, you know, getting out of their basement with their music.
• 53:59
  Glen Erickson: And then you, you get to points where, you know, you, you hit some number of whatever on mp3.com or when you first are, are putting music out somewhere and then you've, you've been signed to a label.
• 54:12
  Glen Erickson: So there's that, not just that validation.
• 54:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, there's a validation, but that sort of respectable.
• 54:18
  Glen Erickson: Stance with, with your peers that you know, no one can take away from you.
• 54:22
  Glen Erickson: That like the business recognized you, you're a part of the fabric of the whole industry.
• 54:27
  Glen Erickson: Now, uh, that's another level.
• 54:30
  Glen Erickson: I mean, as, as crazy as things like you said you won an, a national lap, laptop battle championship in Seattle at some point, like a pretty, like, pretty huge deal at the time.
• 54:45
  Glen Erickson: So you've had these things which like the, the label and things like that, which are very peak moments.
• 54:52
  Glen Erickson: then you describe like, like multiple crashes underneath
• 54:57
  matthew willox: Yeah,
• 54:58
  Glen Erickson: you sort of referenced already sort of slightly, you know, you know what really drives things sometimes is like, I was just feeling lost or I'm a lonely kid and you're trying to fill a void.
• 55:11
  Glen Erickson: And I think
• 55:11
  matthew willox: absolutely.
• 55:13
  Glen Erickson: you know, sometimes these stories get told in music, sometimes they don't.
• 55:16
  Glen Erickson: Just how.
• 55:18
  Glen Erickson: artists have this common thread of, validation and what we're trying to fill inside of ourselves with.
• 55:25
  Glen Erickson: Like, we're not just trying to make music that makes people happy, though we all say that in our pressers.
• 55:29
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 55:30
  Glen Erickson: trying to find some version of happiness, you know, and you hear the tragic, you, you only hear this talked about in the tragic stories of, how did success not make Cobain happy?
• 55:40
  Glen Erickson: How did Michael Hutchins not be happy with all his success in in success or, but it is just, I think it's real at the most base level.
• 55:47
  Glen Erickson: And describe a couple of burnout phases.
• 55:50
  Glen Erickson: It feels like all of these things in this like mass amount of just constantly creating and putting things out wasn't returning enough to fill that void.
• 55:59
  Glen Erickson: Is that an accurate assumption?
• 56:00
  Glen Erickson: I'm wondering if you can just tell me about experience as an artist.
• 56:04
  Glen Erickson: Not.
• 56:04
  Glen Erickson: Sort of getting what you need back from it to,
• 56:07
  matthew willox: Okay,
• 56:08
  Glen Erickson: you solid.
• 56:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 56:10
  matthew willox: I'll give you the, I'll give you the grownup Matthew version.
• 56:13
  matthew willox: First, and then we'll go back and do the like Kid Matthew version.
• 56:17
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 56:17
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 56:18
  matthew willox: have a really clear idea what you hope to achieve before you start doing something, which is really funny that I say that.
• 56:25
  matthew willox: 'cause just earlier I was like, I don't, usually I make something, I have no idea why.
• 56:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 56:30
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 56:30
  matthew willox: And the only reason why I say that is that if you start making something and it starts doing well, you are going to have to take responsibility for whatever is happening to you as a result of that success or whatever people are buying into, right?
• 56:46
  matthew willox: So if you're like, I'm gonna make a sick record that has a bunch of crazy dury death marches on it, and then like, suddenly that's like used as like some sort of campaign music for like, you know, an invasion.
• 56:58
  matthew willox: You're gonna have to be like, uh, yeah, sorry, that's not what I, I was just making something cool.
• 57:01
  matthew willox: Like, I didn't need it to, you know, to be done for this.
• 57:04
  matthew willox: I don't, I don't want to get paid for something like this, right.
• 57:07
  matthew willox: You kinda have to take that into account.
• 57:09
  matthew willox: Now, I know that today because I'm grown up and I've seen, I, I have allowed myself to, not, wound, you know, irreparably, but harm people, you know, as a result of my behavior.
• 57:22
  matthew willox: Right.
• 57:22
  matthew willox: And, you know, like, you know, nothing, ugly, but you know, just being a stupid kid, acting impulsively and being a dumb ass, right?
• 57:31
  matthew willox: And, you know, it really kind of blows me away how we don't recognize that like everyone's going to get to a certain level of maturity in a different way, at a different time.
• 57:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 57:41
  matthew willox: so anyways, getting on, getting music to the oiler scoreboard, getting music on a record label, getting into this laptop battle championship stuff, were, were all things that if you had asked me prior, previously, Hey, let's do this, I probably would've been like, eh, I don't need, I don't really wanna go do that.
• 58:01
  matthew willox: Right.
• 58:02
  matthew willox: But because the opportunity just kind of showed up on your door and being like, Hey, would you like some free validation for everything that you've been working on?
• 58:10
  matthew willox: You know, even though you have no clue what you're doing, I'll just put this record out for you.
• 58:14
  matthew willox: No big deal.
• 58:15
  matthew willox: You're like, yeah, let's do it.
• 58:17
  matthew willox: Right?
• 58:17
  matthew willox: Sure.
• 58:18
  matthew willox: And so, you know, the problem with that is though, is that when you go and you get the result back.
• 58:26
  matthew willox: You didn't, you didn't try to do anything for it, right?
• 58:30
  matthew willox: It's almost kind of like, like someone was like, tomorrow there's gonna be a mystery present on your doorstep.
• 58:37
  matthew willox: Yes or no?
• 58:37
  matthew willox: Do you want a mystery present on your, on your doorstep and you open it up and it's like some sort of like weird candle that smells like O Henry or something, and you're like, great, okay, cool.
• 58:47
  matthew willox: Throw that on the shelf.
• 58:48
  matthew willox: Right?
• 58:49
  matthew willox: And it's not, it's not like you're getting this thing back that is fulfilling to you in any way.
• 58:57
  matthew willox: It's just happening to you, right?
• 59:00
  matthew willox: And you're sort of getting, you're getting, and so you can look back and it, you're like, this is an accomplishment.
• 59:06
  matthew willox: We did this and I did the work to make it happen.
• 59:10
  matthew willox: Like I, You know, paid a lawyer to do a record contract.
• 59:13
  matthew willox: I recorded the album, I produced all the art for it.
• 59:15
  matthew willox: I, you know, you know what I mean?
• 59:16
  matthew willox: I talked to the record about it, put this thing together, and then it goes out there and you see the reaction of the people who are, you know, what they're saying about it or how it makes them feel.
• 59:27
  matthew willox: And you're like, Hmm, I don't like
• 59:28
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 59:29
  matthew willox: you don't get it.
• 59:30
  matthew willox: Right.
• 59:30
  matthew willox: And, and
• 59:32
  Glen Erickson: The thing,
• 59:33
  matthew willox: a,
• 59:33
  Glen Erickson: thing that's coming back, you're saying
• 59:35
  matthew willox: yeah,
• 59:36
  Glen Erickson: isn't necessarily what you needed.
• 59:38
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 59:38
  matthew willox: that's right.
• 59:38
  matthew willox: Yeah,
• 59:39
  Glen Erickson: and maybe the real friction is that you have some sense of guilt over that or confusion because you
• 59:46
  matthew willox: definitely.
• 59:47
  Glen Erickson: something else.
• 59:48
  Glen Erickson: And
• 59:49
  matthew willox: Absolutely.
• 59:50
  Glen Erickson: also, if you express that, thinks you're being ungrateful maybe.
• 59:54
  matthew willox: So, yeah, so I, so, you know, I think if you went in, if you, if you went and talked to Micah do, and you said to him like, what was Matthew like when you were working on this stuff with him?
• 1:00:04
  matthew willox: He'd probably be like, like kind of disaffected, you know, or like, maybe overly challenging because like, you know, I was like, well, like, what are we gonna, like who, like, who, who are we playing shows with?
• 1:00:14
  matthew willox: Like, if I'm gonna put this album out, let's play some shows, like, let's do some stuff.
• 1:00:17
  matthew willox: And it was sort of like, no, no, no, that's not really what we got going on here.
• 1:00:20
  matthew willox: Like, oh, whoa, whoa, slow down.
• 1:00:22
  matthew willox: Like, you're thinking like, you know, you're, you're on this level, but you're actually on this level.
• 1:00:26
  matthew willox: And I was like.
• 1:00:27
  matthew willox: I don't care what level it is, let's just do the thing, right.
• 1:00:31
  matthew willox: And'cause I'm like doing this thing or, or let's say going, going to California and playing a show with a bunch of people who I'm making music with would be really validating, like 10 times more validating than putting any kind of record out.
• 1:00:45
  matthew willox: Even if it's like you come back in a negative in the bank account because you had to go do that, the fulfillment of that is more.
• 1:00:53
  matthew willox: Right.
• 1:00:54
  matthew willox: And so, you know, I'm playing shows in Vancouver or I'm going to, I'm going to a lot of shows and I have a good friend group and this laptop battle stuff comes up and my friend Jen is like, Hey, you should do this laptop battle thing.
• 1:01:05
  matthew willox: And I'm like, really?
• 1:01:06
  matthew willox: she's like, yeah, yeah, you gotta do it.
• 1:01:08
  matthew willox: And, and like all of my friends, all of my friends are like, you will just annihilate this.
• 1:01:14
  matthew willox: Like, you're just, there's just no contest.
• 1:01:16
  matthew willox: Trust me, you'll get into this and you'll just blow them away.
• 1:01:19
  matthew willox: And I remember being like, okay, like, sure, let's, let's do it.
• 1:01:23
  matthew willox: And uh, like I don't wanna be like, this was a mistake, right?
• 1:01:27
  matthew willox: But, you know, I go and I play that thing and that is exactly what happens.
• 1:01:33
  matthew willox: Okay?
• 1:01:34
  matthew willox: And so there's all these people who I know, or who I'm meeting who now see me as this guy who like just dismantles people in these battles.
• 1:01:45
  matthew willox: And man, that is not me at all.
• 1:01:47
  matthew willox: I am not that person.
• 1:01:48
  matthew willox: I'm like, you know, I'm the kind of person that's like, oh, you wanna learn how to make electronic music cool?
• 1:01:53
  matthew willox: Come over to like, you know, when do you want to come over?
• 1:01:55
  matthew willox: I'll show you how to do everything.
• 1:01:57
  matthew willox: It'll take.
• 1:01:57
  matthew willox: 48 hours.
• 1:01:59
  matthew willox: You know, I got a bed in the studio, you can sleep here.
• 1:02:01
  matthew willox: Right?
• 1:02:02
  matthew willox: And, and like, that.
• 1:02:03
  matthew willox: I'm more interested in doing that.
• 1:02:05
  matthew willox: And then so you win that, and then you meet the people who are doing the laptop battle stuff, and they're like, you, you know, like you gotta come to the next one.
• 1:02:12
  matthew willox: Like, you gotta go, you know, like, we can bring in Seattle, let's do this kind of thing.
• 1:02:15
  matthew willox: And so you go all right.
• 1:02:17
  matthew willox: Like I got this opportunity.
• 1:02:18
  matthew willox: Here we go.
• 1:02:19
  matthew willox: Like, let's just see where it goes kind of thing.
• 1:02:22
  matthew willox: Again, this is a theme for me.
• 1:02:24
  matthew willox: It's like I'm not really thinking about what's gonna happen the next step down the road, or like what, in that situation, in that laptop battle situation, I'm basically walking into a dragon's den.
• 1:02:36
  matthew willox: But that Dragon's den to me is like sort of like, you know, I.
• 1:02:41
  matthew willox: Look, it's the tunnel of love, right?
• 1:02:44
  matthew willox: It's like, like the, the dragon has gone and like, you know, painted a tunnel of love, like over his mouth.
• 1:02:50
  matthew willox: So you just walk in,
• 1:02:52
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:02:54
  matthew willox: And, and so, right?
• 1:02:56
  matthew willox: And so,
• 1:02:56
  Glen Erickson: a good picture.
• 1:02:58
  matthew willox: right?
• 1:03:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:03:00
  matthew willox: And so you're like, you're like laptop battle, right?
• 1:03:03
  matthew willox: And so I go and do that and like, I have this weird memory of like being at that, at the National Laptop Battle.
• 1:03:10
  matthew willox: And I thought I lost, like, I thought the, like I was standing in the crowd and the guy who I was battling against was playing.
• 1:03:17
  matthew willox: And I was like, no way.
• 1:03:19
  matthew willox: Did anything that I make, match what this guy's doing right now.
• 1:03:23
  matthew willox: Like he has, he has in the course of this battle, figured out the game and responded to me here.
• 1:03:31
  matthew willox: He's like thrown the, he's like, he's, you know, he's been released.
• 1:03:34
  matthew willox: He's like, the right.
• 1:03:36
  matthew willox: And then, so I'm like, oh, I've lost.
• 1:03:38
  matthew willox: And everyone's like, no, no, no.
• 1:03:39
  matthew willox: You've won.
• 1:03:39
  matthew willox: Like, get up there.
• 1:03:40
  matthew willox: You know, like, do you think that thing,
• 1:03:43
  Glen Erickson: rap battle in the last mile.
• 1:03:45
  matthew willox: it's like Eminem, it's Oh yeah, it's it, um, uh, exactly.
• 1:03:50
  matthew willox: It's exactly like that.
• 1:03:51
  matthew willox: And so you're like, okay, cool.
• 1:03:54
  matthew willox: And, and like I have this other memory of being backstage at, at the laptop battle and the promoter of the show has this like big stack of bills, like just money from that show.
• 1:04:05
  matthew willox: And he's holding it and he is looking at me.
• 1:04:07
  matthew willox: And I remember being like, alright, that's my ticket home.
• 1:04:11
  matthew willox: Like I've spent my last money just to get here and I needed to win this to be able to like, make it so that I'm not walking home from Seattle, basically.
• 1:04:20
  matthew willox: But you know, that weekend or like right after that show, I went and played this like little space right after that show.
• 1:04:26
  matthew willox: I went and played on a military base and all of these things, like every single moment of this thing, my anxiety is like going up by like a factor of 10 because I'm not around my friends anymore.
• 1:04:39
  matthew willox: I'm around people who I don't know.
• 1:04:41
  matthew willox: I'm in situations that are like, like I am helping create an aggressive environment through just the music that I'm making.
• 1:04:49
  matthew willox: And no one's getting hurt, but it's very rowdy.
• 1:04:53
  matthew willox: And I'm all alone essentially, and I feel alone.
• 1:04:56
  matthew willox: And so and so each one of these things, it's like if you were, if you were to go and be like the, I, I went to Seattle and I played three fucking crazy shows in one weekend, and it just blew everyone's mind.
• 1:05:08
  matthew willox: Everyone would be like, wow, that's really great.
• 1:05:10
  matthew willox: and, and, you know, as an accomplishment, it was, but as an experience to me was like
• 1:05:15
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 1:05:16
  matthew willox: frightening the entire time, like terrifying the entire time.
• 1:05:20
  matthew willox: And when I finally got on the bus to come home, I was listening to, a song, uh, it's by massive attack called Small Time Shot Away.
• 1:05:28
  matthew willox: And it's just like very low and very droning.
• 1:05:31
  matthew willox: And I just remember feeling like I need to do something other than this.
• 1:05:35
  matthew willox: Like this was a.
• 1:05:35
  matthew willox: Terrible idea for me to do
• 1:05:39
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:05:39
  matthew willox: happy that everything turned out the way that it did and was exciting and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:05:44
  matthew willox: And like it really kind of got to this thing where it's like, I have no idea what I'm doing.
• 1:05:50
  matthew willox: I'm just sort of saying yes to stuff I, and like, like I don't mean like know what I'm doing, like the tangible sort of day-to-day operations of like how to get, you know, X.
• 1:06:00
  Glen Erickson: The,
• 1:06:01
  matthew willox: That's right.
• 1:06:01
  Glen Erickson: plan
• 1:06:02
  matthew willox: Why am I here?
• 1:06:04
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:06:04
  matthew willox: Right?
• 1:06:05
  Glen Erickson: you know, this, that feels like, that feels like the mainstream version of that story.
• 1:06:10
  Glen Erickson: There's a number of them, but it, I don't
• 1:06:11
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:06:12
  Glen Erickson: me think of like when Radiohead lands in America after creep and realizes that America is lumping them in to be the next big grunge band
• 1:06:22
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:06:23
  Glen Erickson: of the song creep.
• 1:06:23
  Glen Erickson: And they're like, no, this isn't us at all.
• 1:06:26
  Glen Erickson: They got it all wrong and, and everything the business had laid out for them didn't
• 1:06:31
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  Glen Erickson: And, and, and, you know, and like they had a pretty visceral reaction, to how that was all happening.
• 1:06:38
  Glen Erickson: And also makes me just think of the 10 or maybe a hundred x version of that on people who land on massive stages, like Kurt Cobain's story that the misunderstanding of artists, I think by the public is what you just described, is.
• 1:06:55
  Glen Erickson: When it's not aligned, success doesn't matter because what it does to you is drills giant holes in that misalignment, as you, as a person.
• 1:07:04
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:07:05
  matthew willox: Will you, will you have someone?
• 1:07:07
  Glen Erickson: more.
• 1:07:07
  matthew willox: Like you, like I had someone, like I, I got this little reputation from that kind of small laptop battle group right after this where they're like,
• 1:07:16
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:07:17
  matthew willox: spark that guy.
• 1:07:18
  matthew willox: He's just in it for the money.
• 1:07:20
  matthew willox: I.
• 1:07:20
  matthew willox: Like he doesn't care.
• 1:07:21
  matthew willox: And I'm like, that is so not true.
• 1:07:24
  matthew willox: And I was like, the money what?
• 1:07:27
  matthew willox: And like, you're like, your sort of mean reaction is like, what money?
• 1:07:31
  matthew willox: You know?
• 1:07:32
  matthew willox: Like, I got a bus ticket home.
• 1:07:34
  matthew willox: Woo.
• 1:07:34
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:07:35
  matthew willox: Like, just watch it, you know, let's go spend this money in the strip club.
• 1:07:38
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I
• 1:07:39
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:07:39
  Glen Erickson: the money so I could get a bus ticket home.
• 1:07:42
  matthew willox: Basically, right?
• 1:07:42
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:07:43
  matthew willox: I asked for the winnings that you, you were putting here in front of me so that I could get home.
• 1:07:48
  matthew willox: Thank you for that.
• 1:07:49
  matthew willox: and so, you know, the, the being clear about what you're trying to do and why you wanna do it and what you love about it.
• 1:07:55
  matthew willox: Now, like on that bus ride home, like I was just crying and I remember getting home and lying down and just crying and just being like, that was just awful.
• 1:08:05
  matthew willox: and, and it wasn't like, it wasn't like I got there and everyone that I met was like super inspiring.
• 1:08:10
  matthew willox: And there's people who I met, like, uh, like my friend, uh, Christine, Kenco, Kenco, in quotes, Evans, Wonderful person.
• 1:08:17
  matthew willox: And every time that I got to hang out with her, she would just say.
• 1:08:21
  matthew willox: To just like zing off a Buddha, like one liner to me, that has stuck with me to this day.
• 1:08:27
  matthew willox: in all of our friendships together, like all the times we hung out, there's probably, like we said, 2000 words to each other, but some of those words, like, I'm playing a show and everyone's angry, like everyone's angry at the show.
• 1:08:38
  matthew willox: I was playing one time and we, it was called Smile TROs.
• 1:08:41
  matthew willox: So it was really ironic and everyone's fighting with me and, and she just, she just comes up to me and she's like, you can't be a rainbow shitting unicorn every day.
• 1:08:49
  matthew willox: And I remember just being like, yeah.
• 1:08:52
  matthew willox: And I say that like, I give that advice to other people all the time.
• 1:08:55
  matthew willox: Like when they're like, you know, like, I just can't come into work that,'cause I just can't do the, the socialization thing.
• 1:09:00
  matthew willox: And I'm like, Hey man, you can't be a rainbow shitting unicorn every day.
• 1:09:03
  matthew willox: Like, you just, yeah.
• 1:09:04
  matthew willox: And, uh, the other one too, and this, this one really speaks to me is like, don't confuse commodification with mastery, which is like, just because you are on a stage, just because people are cheering you on or buying your record, doesn't mean that you don't have more growth in, like, there's more to do.
• 1:09:22
  matthew willox: And it's like, I wish I could go back in time.
• 1:09:25
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:09:25
  matthew willox: And say to and say to someone like Kurt Cobain, like, put the shotgun down.
• 1:09:30
  matthew willox: Let's make a beat on this drum machine,
• 1:09:33
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:09:34
  matthew willox: we're gonna,
• 1:09:34
  Glen Erickson: yeah,
• 1:09:35
  matthew willox: you know what I mean?
• 1:09:36
  matthew willox: And we're gonna reinvent you as Beck.
• 1:09:39
  matthew willox: Right.
• 1:09:39
  matthew willox: You know what I mean?
• 1:09:40
  matthew willox: Like,
• 1:09:45
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 1:09:45
  matthew willox: gonna be like, what?
• 1:09:47
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of intense, man.
• 1:09:50
  Glen Erickson: Like, like, I mean, we've referenced Kurt a couple times and I, with no pre-thought, but, and it's very
• 1:09:56
  matthew willox: Well, I'm from the nineties, so Yeah.
• 1:09:58
  Glen Erickson: it's very true, but I mean, it is just the most exaggerated story of, I think this thing about an artist who's just trying to make the thing they love and experiences misalignment, and then you throw that into the soup of whatever you're coming outta your childhood with whatever way you've learned to cope or deal, right.
• 1:10:17
  Glen Erickson: With validation or the absence of it, or, uh, there's all kinds of things in the soup.
• 1:10:22
  Glen Erickson: So the, you know, it just gets pretty intense and I guess it's just really understood and misunderstood, I mean, in artists.
• 1:10:30
  Glen Erickson: So I think the way you've articulated that, it's really incredible based on your experience.
• 1:10:35
  Glen Erickson: for sake of time,'cause I think I could talk to you for like three hours and not even notice it here.
• 1:10:40
  matthew willox: No worries.
• 1:10:41
  Glen Erickson: couple things I wanna ask you about, really quick, more rapid fire then.
• 1:10:44
  Glen Erickson: So like, so I love that you referenced Tron.
• 1:10:47
  Glen Erickson: Uh, I
• 1:10:48
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 1:10:48
  Glen Erickson: early exposure into, oh, the person in the is in the computer and I was fascinated with computers as a kid.
• 1:10:55
  Glen Erickson: So the tron and just the visuals of it were incredible.
• 1:10:58
  Glen Erickson: The video games were incredible.
• 1:10:59
  Glen Erickson: I used to go to the arcades in West Edmonton Mall and play Tron till I had no money left.
• 1:11:05
  matthew willox: This beautiful.
• 1:11:06
  Glen Erickson: my,
• 1:11:06
  matthew willox: It's beautiful.
• 1:11:07
  Glen Erickson: you can sort of do a big jump arc line to
• 1:11:11
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:11:11
  Glen Erickson: next one that is in my, uh, canon of favorite movies of all time, which is Scott Pilgrim versus the World, which felt a similar but different, and I wanna
• 1:11:23
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 1:11:23
  Glen Erickson: it's not electronic, but if you feel like that, would you see it the same way or are you super familiar with the movie Scott Pilgrim?
• 1:11:31
  Glen Erickson: Versus
• 1:11:31
  matthew willox: I am.
• 1:11:32
  matthew willox: That's like, that's, um,
• 1:11:33
  Glen Erickson: video game integration
• 1:11:36
  matthew willox: Oh, I have the video game.
• 1:11:37
  matthew willox: Like, so it started off as a, as a manga or a, or I guess just a regular, it might, it might be in manga format.
• 1:11:44
  matthew willox: Um, and then turned into a movie, and then it's also a game.
• 1:11:48
  matthew willox: And so, yeah, I mean, you know, the, the whole, the whole like Ramona flowers, like kind of like, you know, purple or red-haired video game.
• 1:11:59
  Glen Erickson: yep,
• 1:12:00
  matthew willox: Girl, right.
• 1:12:01
  matthew willox: That, you know, that, that we're sort of like all in love with, uh, the cool, the cool girl.
• 1:12:05
  matthew willox: totally, totally get that.
• 1:12:07
  matthew willox: And that's actually kind of like the most successful album that ever made was this album called Robotic Girl Next Door.
• 1:12:15
  matthew willox: And it is like kind of about me meeting my Ramona Flowers, like, essentially, right.
• 1:12:21
  matthew willox: And,
• 1:12:21
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:12:22
  matthew willox: and you know, like, like that sort of romance is, um, just coded into that album.
• 1:12:31
  matthew willox: Like everything that we are kind of going through.
• 1:12:33
  matthew willox: Like there this song on that album called, uh, we almost didn't Make It, and I wrote that song after we were like eating it.
• 1:12:41
  matthew willox: Like, um, oh, what's that?
• 1:12:43
  matthew willox: What's that?
• 1:12:43
  matthew willox: The, it's like a vegetarian cafe on white, I can't remember what it's called.
• 1:12:46
  Glen Erickson: Mosaics, cafe
• 1:12:47
  matthew willox: Ca we're, we're reading at Cafe Mosaics or some version of Cafe Mosaics, like in whatever it was, in 2001.
• 1:12:55
  matthew willox: And we start walking home and it, like, we go there and it's like plus 10, but when we start, when we leave, it's like minus 10.
• 1:13:02
  matthew willox: And so we're walking from White Ave across the high level bridge back to my place on like one 13th in Jasper.
• 1:13:09
  matthew willox: And we're like freezing.
• 1:13:11
  matthew willox: And we're like both like, we're gonna die.
• 1:13:13
  matthew willox: We're gonna die.
• 1:13:13
  matthew willox: You know?
• 1:13:14
  matthew willox: And we're too young and broke to like get money for a tax cab.
• 1:13:18
  Glen Erickson: You
• 1:13:19
  matthew willox: Right.
• 1:13:19
  matthew willox: So
• 1:13:20
  Glen Erickson: Sarah in this
• 1:13:21
  matthew willox: I'm Michael Sarah in this
• 1:13:22
  Glen Erickson: episode?
• 1:13:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:13:23
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:13:24
  matthew willox: Um, like that song is just that like, you know, when you're, when you're trying to hang on is actually very, static.
• 1:13:31
  matthew willox: You know what I mean?
• 1:13:32
  matthew willox: Like, you're like, there isn't like a lot of movement in a song like that.
• 1:13:36
  matthew willox: And so I just had this kind of like one kind of like pulsating idea and people like ended up really liking that song.
• 1:13:41
  matthew willox: Like, oh, this is like my favorite song on the record.
• 1:13:43
  matthew willox: It's just, you can really feel this kind of vibe in there.
• 1:13:46
  matthew willox: And I was like, that is like a true moment that happened to me.
• 1:13:49
  matthew willox: And I And so, you know, that's, that's like, again, when I have the vision and I know what I'm doing and I make the thing, it always turns out great.
• 1:13:57
  matthew willox: Or like, not always, but like, you know, like, I'll make it great, you know, whatever I can do that.
• 1:14:02
  matthew willox: The idea is always there and the execution kind of comes through anyways.
• 1:14:06
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:14:06
  matthew willox: So that's, that's how I feel about,
• 1:14:08
  Glen Erickson: that.
• 1:14:08
  matthew willox: yeah, like definitely video games.
• 1:14:10
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:14:11
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 1:14:12
  matthew willox: Continue next one.
• 1:14:13
  Glen Erickson: keep going off that.
• 1:14:14
  Glen Erickson: cause there's another thing I wanted to quickly ask you about before we wrap
• 1:14:16
  matthew willox: Sure.
• 1:14:18
  Glen Erickson: think the, one of the most coolest things I saw from you is the controller of an old SNES thing into basically a musical instrument and how you've sort of merged this.
• 1:14:28
  Glen Erickson: I'm making music outta my video game old, you know, So can you just give a quick, like how did that, like how did that happen for you?
• 1:14:38
  Glen Erickson: How did you figure that out?
• 1:14:39
  Glen Erickson: Where was the inspiration?
• 1:14:40
  matthew willox: yeah, so I think at, like, at the, at the fundamental level, there's very little difference between like a, a MIDI keyboard that you would plug into the computer and a Nintendo controller, right?
• 1:14:54
  matthew willox: Like you're pushing a button down, it's telling a little controller to generate a signal and sends it to the computer.
• 1:15:00
  matthew willox: So, you know, at some point you're like.
• 1:15:03
  matthew willox: Hey, uh, I'm gonna go spend whatever,$500 on a MIDI controller, or I can try to get my Super Nintendo controller to work.
• 1:15:11
  matthew willox: And so there's a lot of things that I, and like I, I used to have a.
• 1:15:16
  matthew willox: Uh, a Palm pilot.
• 1:15:17
  matthew willox: You remember Palm Pilot,
• 1:15:18
  Glen Erickson: Yep,
• 1:15:19
  matthew willox: had converted my palm pilot into a MIDI sequencer, and so I could actually, like all my sequences for a gig were like on the Palm Pilot and I could just pull it up and play it.
• 1:15:31
  Glen Erickson: That's amazing.
• 1:15:32
  matthew willox: And so, yeah, like, and you know, to, to me is like, you know, I have the POM pilot.
• 1:15:37
  matthew willox: I can solder and I can kind of figure out like, you know what, I can get out of this thing.
• 1:15:41
  matthew willox: And there's other people working on that stuff too, right?
• 1:15:43
  matthew willox: There's a, a, a, a community and ecosystem.
• 1:15:46
  matthew willox: I'm not like inventing all this stuff from scratch.
• 1:15:48
  matthew willox: And so you can take that stuff and use it and then, you know, uh, there's like a, there's a great video on YouTube where a guy takes a bicycle and he makes it so that when you turn it one way or another, it turned the opposite way.
• 1:16:03
  matthew willox: So like, if you turn left, the tire goes right, and if you turn right, the tire goes left.
• 1:16:07
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 1:16:07
  matthew willox: And so then he tries to ride it.
• 1:16:10
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 1:16:11
  matthew willox: So I sort of think that like, you know, if I pick up a guitar, I can, I can get something nice out of it.
• 1:16:16
  matthew willox: If I pick up a clarinet, I can get something nice out of it.
• 1:16:19
  matthew willox: If I play on the piano, I can, I can, you know, uh, like I know the piano the best.
• 1:16:23
  matthew willox: So I, you know, no problem there.
• 1:16:24
  matthew willox: So if I pick up the Super Nintendo controller, aren't I just kind of trying to get that bicycle wheel to turn in the right direction?
• 1:16:32
  matthew willox: And it's just a matter of kind of like.
• 1:16:34
  Glen Erickson: Mm,
• 1:16:35
  matthew willox: Get in the brain to figure out the inputs and outputs and, it's really no more complicated than that.
• 1:16:40
  matthew willox: And it looks cool, and people get all excited about it.
• 1:16:42
  matthew willox: And you're like, this is like wearing a leather set jacket to the nerds.
• 1:16:45
  matthew willox: You know, like, they're just like, wow, I can't believe it.
• 1:16:49
  matthew willox: You know?
• 1:16:49
  matthew willox: And you've got it, you know, and you've, you're
• 1:16:52
  Glen Erickson: jacket to the Nerd Convention.
• 1:16:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:16:55
  matthew willox: And it's like you're on stage and you've got like a, you've got, you don't got a tie on.
• 1:16:58
  matthew willox: You've got like a Super Nintendo controller that you pull outta your pocket and you start hitting it.
• 1:17:02
  matthew willox: And people are just like, what?
• 1:17:04
  matthew willox: That's crazy.
• 1:17:05
  Glen Erickson: what I find fascinating is when you reference this and how you've used your brain to figure this out and almost made that your.
• 1:17:12
  Glen Erickson: brand almost of, of how you approach music is goes all the way back to the start of our conversation of, you know, we make stuff digitally and then we go and add all this analog stuff on top so it feels real or something.
• 1:17:24
  Glen Erickson: Or
• 1:17:25
  matthew willox: Yep.
• 1:17:25
  Glen Erickson: the brilliance of, you know, distortion is that it's actually the sound of an amp that can't contain the sound.
• 1:17:32
  Glen Erickson: And it's, and there's something so human and real about that, you know,
• 1:17:36
  matthew willox: The.
• 1:17:37
  Glen Erickson: hitting the limits and, and the same way that you're sort of manipulating.
• 1:17:42
  Glen Erickson: This is what I'm fascinated.
• 1:17:43
  Glen Erickson: I wanted you to explain how you do that, because what's fascinating to me is I think, and I think I'm pretty smart in this stuff, and I, I don't get where your brain goes, I don't do the math ahead of time to think of is just this and I can find the, the sequence that connects the two, right, that I can push music.
• 1:18:04
  Glen Erickson: a thing that none of us thought was meant for music.
• 1:18:07
  Glen Erickson: I just think that's really brilliant.
• 1:18:09
  Glen Erickson: Fascinating version of creativity.
• 1:18:11
  matthew willox: And, you know, well, thanks for thinking That's brilliant.
• 1:18:14
  matthew willox: I, you know, I really work hard on music theory.
• 1:18:18
  matthew willox: It's something that I don't necessarily try to push on other people, but I think that understanding music theory is probably one of the most important things you can do as a musician so I do a lot of thinking about the music theory part of it.
• 1:18:30
  matthew willox: I don't know.
• 1:18:31
  matthew willox: I don't know if, I don't know if I can know how to answer this question.
• 1:18:33
  matthew willox: My brain just works that way.
• 1:18:35
  matthew willox: Like I look at the numbers, I look at the relationships between notes.
• 1:18:39
  matthew willox: I have had big conversations with people where, where you're like, don't worry about scale, don't worry about cords, don't like, all those things are kind of like, macro structures.
• 1:18:50
  matthew willox: You know, if you look at a skyscraper, you're like, it's a rectangle.
• 1:18:53
  matthew willox: You're like, yeah, it's a, it looks like a rectangle, but it's made up of all these other little things.
• 1:18:57
  matthew willox: And so music to me, like the foundation of music, and it's the thing that I wish in music school and in music books, they would just spend 99.9% of the book on,'cause it would make everything else irrelevant is intervals between notes.
• 1:19:12
  matthew willox: All music comes down to intervals, between notes and, If you like, I used to have a friend, he would be like, how do you make the melodies that you make?
• 1:19:21
  matthew willox: Like, tell, like, teach me what you're doing.
• 1:19:23
  matthew willox: And I'm like, okay, pick seven notes on the keyboard.
• 1:19:26
  matthew willox: So go from like pick a, pick a root note and then any seven notes in between there in between those two things.
• 1:19:32
  matthew willox: And he is like, well that's weird.
• 1:19:33
  matthew willox: Like this sounds weird or that sounds weird.
• 1:19:35
  matthew willox: I'm like, yeah, but that's a scale.
• 1:19:37
  matthew willox: Any seven notes between here and there is a scale and you can actually do eight notes.
• 1:19:41
  matthew willox: There's actually composers out there who are like, no, no, no, you can make your notes up of eight scales.
• 1:19:45
  matthew willox: And they actually have a lot of advantages in, in doing it that way.
• 1:19:48
  matthew willox: And I remember showing my dad one day, he's like, oh, show me how you write a song.
• 1:19:53
  matthew willox: And I literally took the sequencer and I just put a bunch of random notes in it and I hit play.
• 1:19:58
  matthew willox: And he is like, well, that sounds terrible.
• 1:19:59
  matthew willox: And I was like, well, let's take a couple notes out.
• 1:20:01
  matthew willox: And so I just plucked a couple of notes off the, off the grid and played it again.
• 1:20:06
  matthew willox: And it started to have like a little groove in it, like, you know,'cause you're, creating rests, you're creating blank spaces.
• 1:20:11
  matthew willox: And he's like, oh, that's sounding better.
• 1:20:13
  matthew willox: And then I was like, well, this note needs to go up and this note needs to go down.
• 1:20:16
  matthew willox: And then, you know, we just kind of like took that jumble of sticks that I threw in there and kind of mushed them around until we finally had like a melody and a sequence.
• 1:20:25
  matthew willox: and.
• 1:20:25
  matthew willox: the biggest writer's block I ever had was probably between 2014 and, last year or the year before to 2022.
• 1:20:33
  matthew willox: And I just wasn't writing any music.
• 1:20:35
  matthew willox: And it was because I was trying to like, be like, well, no, like, what is the real way to write music?
• 1:20:39
  matthew willox: You know?
• 1:20:40
  matthew willox: And you're just like, don't worry about it.
• 1:20:42
  matthew willox: It's like, who cares if you like it?
• 1:20:45
  matthew willox: It's good.
• 1:20:46
  matthew willox: You like it, it's good.
• 1:20:47
  matthew willox: That's it.
• 1:20:48
  matthew willox: You don't need to be like, yeah, but is someone else gonna really like, see that I've been really original here.
• 1:20:53
  matthew willox: Like, that when once that gets into my head, I'm dead.
• 1:20:57
  matthew willox: Like I will just cease to exist.
• 1:20:59
  Glen Erickson: I mean, follow your heart between the intervals sounds like a pretty good theme to this entire arc of your story, tell you the
• 1:21:07
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:21:07
  Glen Erickson: Um,
• 1:21:08
  matthew willox: so, it's so funny that you say that now because like my whole approach, which is like, I don't know what the next step is.
• 1:21:14
  matthew willox: And so I'm also saying my root theory is like, just use intervals.
• 1:21:18
  matthew willox: Just just worry about the next step between the note.
• 1:21:21
  Glen Erickson: This has been a, this has been a total blast.
• 1:21:23
  Glen Erickson: I love talking to you about all this kind of stuff and I know I could talk to you a whole bunch more and I'm sure we will.
• 1:21:29
  Glen Erickson: But,
• 1:21:30
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:21:30
  Glen Erickson: uh, I'm gonna go back and listen and try to pull a couple of those quotes from your friend out from Sure.
• 1:21:36
  Glen Erickson: But now I'm going to
• 1:21:37
  matthew willox: Okay.
• 1:21:37
  Glen Erickson: thinking about this whole idea of following your heart between the intervals.
• 1:21:40
  Glen Erickson: So thanks for all of
• 1:21:43
  matthew willox: Absolutely.
• 1:21:44
  Glen Erickson: me today and for taking the time.
• 1:21:47
  Glen Erickson: really
• 1:21:47
  matthew willox: For sure.
• 1:21:48
  matthew willox: Well, you know, I'm a huge fan of what you've done so far.
• 1:21:50
  matthew willox: Like I just, I love listening to this show, so to when you're like, you can be on my show, and I'd only like really listened to one episode.
• 1:21:56
  matthew willox: At that point I was like, yeah,
• 1:21:59
  Glen Erickson: Well,
• 1:21:59
  matthew willox: me do it.
• 1:22:00
  Glen Erickson: kind of you.
• 1:22:01
  Glen Erickson: Uh,
• 1:22:02
  matthew willox: Yeah.
• 1:22:02
  Glen Erickson: appreciate it.
• 1:22:03
  Glen Erickson: I, I didn't want it to feel like a backhanded compliment to say you didn't have some of fame that maybe my normal audience would quote unquote know who you were.
• 1:22:14
  Glen Erickson: But this is it was so important to me was'cause I think that your story is just an every day, every person story.
• 1:22:23
  Glen Erickson: And I love it.
• 1:22:24
  Glen Erickson: It's fascinating to me and know, I appreciate you just taking the time to sort of pull the veil back on it for me.
• 1:22:30
  matthew willox: I can I end on one story?
• 1:22:32
  matthew willox: We'll just, we'll just, we'll just leap out right after this.
• 1:22:34
  matthew willox: I'll tell one story.
• 1:22:35
  matthew willox: So.
• 1:22:36
  matthew willox: So after, after, you know, uh, my music career, sort of as it was, as we were talking about, had been completely and utterly destroyed by like, multiple factors, you know?
• 1:22:46
  matthew willox: And I, I moved back to Edmonton and I'm staying with, a friend of the robotic girl next door, And, I'm in his like, sort of listing room and, you know, like my whole world's like gone.
• 1:22:57
  matthew willox: Like I've lost everything, like literally everything.
• 1:23:00
  matthew willox: And I look up at his CD show and I see a copy of my album in there, and I pull it out and I was like, you have this.
• 1:23:09
  matthew willox: He's like, that's you, right?
• 1:23:15
  Glen Erickson: so
• 1:23:15
  matthew willox: It's just,
• 1:23:16
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:16
  matthew willox: yeah, right?
• 1:23:17
  matthew willox: And you're like,
• 1:23:18
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:23:18
  matthew willox: yep.
• 1:23:20
  matthew willox: So I feel like, I feel like I've had my own j I've had my own almost famous enough, like I've been almost famous enough.
• 1:23:26
  matthew willox: It's true.
• 1:23:27
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:27
  Glen Erickson: I, yeah, I'm glad you said that.
• 1:23:29
  Glen Erickson: I appreciate that very much, Matthew.
• 1:23:31
  Glen Erickson: I wish you obviously all the success in whatever you're doing, and I hope that, uh, I get to be inside this circle and continue to see your creative efforts, Thank you, man.
• 1:23:40
  matthew willox: No problem.
• 1:23:41
  matthew willox: Bye.
• 1:23:41
  Glen Erickson: take care, bud.
• 1:23:49
  alexi: Hey, just wait.
• 1:23:50
  alexi: Lemme close my door.
• 1:23:51
  Glen Erickson: You ready to go?
• 1:23:52
  Glen Erickson: You wanna chat?
• 1:23:53
  Glen Erickson: Are we gonna
• 1:23:54
  alexi: we gonna chat?
• 1:23:54
  Glen Erickson: Okay, we're gonna chat.
• 1:23:55
  Glen Erickson: Okay, so episode 11, Matthew Willox okay, maybe it's completely obvious, right?
• 1:24:01
  Glen Erickson: Like I came right out of the gates starting a podcast, and of course I'm just gonna lean on my friends and people I know.
• 1:24:08
  Glen Erickson: The people that I know will respond to emails right away, tended to be the people who got in on the guest list right away.
• 1:24:16
  Glen Erickson: Um, that's not totally true, but no, well, no, we work together, right?
• 1:24:20
  Glen Erickson: So Matthew and I worked together.
• 1:24:22
  Glen Erickson: Well, here's the very interesting thing and and this is part of what I wrote for the intro to this, so I kind of dropped this hint in the intro to the episode, so it kind of already happened, but I asked him to be a guest before I had even dug into his music career.
• 1:24:37
  alexi: So you took a
• 1:24:38
  Glen Erickson: If you can
• 1:24:39
  alexi: It could have been boring.
• 1:24:41
  Glen Erickson: I took, I took a real swing off of this, but, but it's because what I sort of mentioned at the start of the, the conversation with Matthew, which was the level to which he is a creative, is so unmatched with most people I met.
• 1:24:57
  Glen Erickson: And I've, you know, I can always tell through all of our conversations that everything is so informed by a deep, rich experience, and I just knew that.
• 1:25:08
  Glen Erickson: I needed, I, and I needed and wanted something different, right?
• 1:25:12
  Glen Erickson: I don't want the same version of a story the music and career and the way that his, we didn't really even dip into the way it overlaps just into his career and life as an incredible digital artist and, and programmer and coder and all the things that he can do, but they are blended for him, and it was incredible.
• 1:25:32
  Glen Erickson: And then when I dug into his life.
• 1:25:34
  Glen Erickson: I couldn't find very much.
• 1:25:35
  Glen Erickson: I mean, the inside little note to that is, he's very fun at work because he's been a great supporter too.
• 1:25:42
  Glen Erickson: So I asked him this very early on, and then he started listening to episodes, and then I would get Slack messages from Matthew every Thursday when a new episode would come out, and he would tell me which part of the story he's relating to every time.
• 1:25:55
  Glen Erickson: So he's.
• 1:25:55
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:25:56
  Glen Erickson: Sweet is a great word for it.
• 1:25:57
  Glen Erickson: He's just a sweet guy.
• 1:25:58
  alexi: I actually take it back.
• 1:25:59
  alexi: I don't think he is a gamble because if you like previously knew him pre like podcast talk, listening to him, I feel like he could be sane, boring.
• 1:26:10
  alexi: Like he could have boring content, he could be like a, have a boring story, but the way he speaks and the way he engages in his little chuckle, like he could, it would be still interesting and engaging to listen to.
• 1:26:20
  alexi: So I mean, if you knew him and heard that already.
• 1:26:23
  alexi: It is not really a gamble, like, you know, like for a podcast where people are just listening to him talk, it's gonna be engaging.
• 1:26:29
  alexi: just makes it even better.
• 1:26:31
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, agree.
• 1:26:32
  Glen Erickson: but I, I told you that I hoped you would really like his little chuckle, so I'm glad that
• 1:26:38
  alexi: it was so
• 1:26:39
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 1:26:39
  alexi: I feel the same whenever I'm talking to people.
• 1:26:42
  alexi: If I ever say anything and I'm either like really comfortable and like finding myself funny or opposite end, and I'm like quite uncomfortable, I feel like I often the same thing.
• 1:26:53
  alexi: So that was very relatable.
• 1:26:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:26:55
  Glen Erickson: And, and the other sweet thing about him is that he can talk with great earn earnestness and intensity, yet it doesn't matter what.
• 1:27:03
  Glen Erickson: The subject matter is he, he can roll it off in that self-deprecating, don't take himself too seriously.
• 1:27:10
  Glen Erickson: Ever little chuckle, uh, at whatever part of the story.
• 1:27:13
  Glen Erickson: So, yeah, I really loved that about him and I'm so happy to be able to share that with everybody else.
• 1:27:18
  Glen Erickson: so it was a different kind of story, but I loved that had this version and it, and it's, sorry, I should say, and it's a story that, like I said, isn't.
• 1:27:28
  Glen Erickson: The path that a lot of my peers or that I was involved in.
• 1:27:31
  Glen Erickson: So it's great.
• 1:27:31
  Glen Erickson: And yet there's like all kinds of similarities had such, you know, the aspirations and the opportunity, sort of the endless opportunity in front of him
• 1:27:41
  alexi: a really podcast.
• 1:27:43
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:27:43
  Glen Erickson: And then a big crash too in his life.
• 1:27:46
  Glen Erickson: but you know, he just said so many on point things, so my favorite thing at the very end, I'm gonna, I don't know if you have a favorite part or thing that was said or any little segment I'll let you say, but my favorite was just right at the end when he was just talking about music theory, just randomly off to the side and he talked about the, between the intervals.
• 1:28:08
  Glen Erickson: he really thinks music
• 1:28:10
  alexi: what I.
• 1:28:10
  Glen Erickson: 'cause scale.
• 1:28:12
  Glen Erickson: cause scales are scales.
• 1:28:13
  Glen Erickson: Like they're just, they're there.
• 1:28:14
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:28:15
  Glen Erickson: Like they don't change, but it's all the stuff in between.
• 1:28:18
  Glen Erickson: And the way, it just was such a clear in metaphor for everything.
• 1:28:22
  Glen Erickson: He had talked about it in his life
• 1:28:24
  alexi: Well, I was gonna say and him pointing that out and then like you could tell he brought it up as like a quick side note to add to his point, and then he kind of fell into rabbit hole, but like.
• 1:28:36
  alexi: of like passion that he brought and it just like all of a sudden talking about like intervals and like the story with his dad and like his creation process, like just that quick bit.
• 1:28:44
  alexi: I was like, if you just took that and had someone listen, like you can tell from that how creative of a mind he has.
• 1:28:51
  alexi: And like right off the bat you him in the episode as like just such a creative person and that drawing of him looking out into the distance he was talking about with like music notes around his head.
• 1:29:00
  alexi: And I'm like.
• 1:29:01
  Glen Erickson: It makes sense.
• 1:29:02
  alexi: that that person did that.
• 1:29:03
  alexi: But like, I guess, and I'm like, dude, if I listen segment of him talking about like that with his dad and just making like music that way and like creating that way, like no crap.
• 1:29:14
  alexi: That's what someone sees him as.
• 1:29:16
  alexi: Like that's exactly an accurate portrayal.
• 1:29:18
  alexi: And I was like,
• 1:29:19
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 1:29:20
  Glen Erickson: Absolutely.
• 1:29:21
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:29:21
  Glen Erickson: So I, I really hope people really take the time with this one.
• 1:29:25
  Glen Erickson: I think when you follow the way he weaves and weaves and weaves around his points with, with the context and the story like you had pointed out, it's like really sweet stuff in there.
• 1:29:36
  Glen Erickson: what I wanted to make clear, cause at one point early on, and I think I told you I might have even edited some of it'cause I rambled while he was talking near the beginning trying to find a quote and it's one of my
• 1:29:46
  alexi: Instagram?
• 1:29:47
  Glen Erickson: Favorite quotes absolutely ever.
• 1:29:49
  Glen Erickson: Way back in my Instagram.
• 1:29:51
  Glen Erickson: and then I finally pulled one part of it a little bit out near the end'cause it came back around a reference.
• 1:29:57
  Glen Erickson: And I like callbacks a lot.
• 1:29:58
  Glen Erickson: So, but if it's okay, I thought I would just read the whole quote and then you can just tell me what you
• 1:30:04
  alexi: gonna ask
• 1:30:05
  Glen Erickson: Um.
• 1:30:05
  alexi: you left us all on a
• 1:30:07
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:30:07
  alexi: so.
• 1:30:08
  Glen Erickson: Okay, just do that.
• 1:30:10
  Glen Erickson: So it's from a guy named Brian Eno.
• 1:30:12
  Glen Erickson: He's an amazing producer.
• 1:30:14
  Glen Erickson: Uh, a vast array of credits, but most people know him because he was a part of the production team that really took, that was a part of U2 when U2 really became the biggest band in the world the eighties and the nineties.
• 1:30:26
  Glen Erickson: So, so Brian Eno has been known as very revolutionary also in the electronic world, which is why I thought it was apropos to to Matthew.
• 1:30:33
  Glen Erickson: but that's not even why I thought of it.
• 1:30:35
  Glen Erickson: I thought of it because of the quote.
• 1:30:37
  Glen Erickson: So he says this, whatever you now find weird, uncomfortable, and nasty about a new medium.
• 1:30:45
  Glen Erickson: surely become its signature CD distortion, of digital video, the crap sound of an eight bit.
• 1:30:54
  Glen Erickson: All of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided.
• 1:30:59
  Glen Erickson: It's the sound of failure, the sound of things going out of control of a medium, pushing to its limits, and breaking apart guitar sound.
• 1:31:08
  Glen Erickson: Is the sound of something too loud for the medium that's supposed to carry it?
• 1:31:13
  Glen Erickson: The blue singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry, too powerful for the throat that releases it.
• 1:31:20
  Glen Erickson: which I just find the most articulate of putting together this idea that.
• 1:31:27
  Glen Erickson: We have this perfectionism as humans, and I see it especially in like electronic music because he was talking about how that one guy how do you get your sound so perfectly clear back in the nineties?
• 1:31:41
  Glen Erickson: And he's like, because it's all digital.
• 1:31:43
  Glen Erickson: Like I don't have to deal with the natural stuff that's here.
• 1:31:47
  Glen Erickson: I, it's just digital.
• 1:31:49
  Glen Erickson: But, and that's where that conversation started from.
• 1:31:52
  alexi: like his example of um, like him using digital and people being so impressed that it sounds clear, and then him going.
• 1:32:02
  alexi: And adding like background noise to make it sound real and authentic.
• 1:32:08
  alexi: It's like
• 1:32:09
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 1:32:09
  alexi: like, what you just said.
• 1:32:10
  alexi: It's like he has this amazing quality now, which was new at the time and it's like impressive.
• 1:32:17
  alexi: But you know, he still just like wants that authenticness authentic
• 1:32:24
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:32:24
  alexi: And I just found that so interesting someone had this like pure sound and was like, oh, this is great.
• 1:32:28
  alexi: This is lovely.
• 1:32:29
  alexi: I'm gonna stick to this.
• 1:32:30
  alexi: but it's like craving for like authenticness.
• 1:32:33
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:32:33
  Glen Erickson: And I think the other part of that that I loved about him and how he does things and what his story is and how it relates to what I find really, desirable and attractive in the music world is his, is it, it's this idea that we tend to thrive when we have less means, when we have around us, like we tend to put out better art and work when we're in the absence of plenty.
• 1:33:04
  Glen Erickson: I, I was actually just talking about this last week with somebody about music scenes in different cities and I said there's this really common characteristic, especially here in Canada of, scenes that have developed in places where think they wouldn't because, All the local music venues shut and now people don't have anywhere in it maybe to play and they don't have opportunity or they're very isolated in a region.
• 1:33:30
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:33:30
  Glen Erickson: It's takes like, you have to drive a long way to go play anywhere but your own town.
• 1:33:34
  Glen Erickson: So, those limitations create a greater hunger and drive.
• 1:33:40
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:33:40
  Glen Erickson: And so art gets produced and you know, and then all of a sudden.
• 1:33:46
  Glen Erickson: see it.
• 1:33:46
  Glen Erickson: What we were talking about last week with someone was, I watched this thing happen in Vancouver, you know, 15 years ago or so where a lot of the famous music venues shut.
• 1:33:55
  Glen Erickson: They all became dance bars.
• 1:33:57
  Glen Erickson: And the first time in a long time, that's when Vancouver all of a sudden that's what Dan Mangan came out of the scene.
• 1:34:04
  Glen Erickson: That flourished out of came right after that.
• 1:34:07
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:34:08
  Glen Erickson: And because art artists will go and find a way.
• 1:34:12
  Glen Erickson: To make it happen.
• 1:34:13
  Glen Erickson: And, And Matthew was a great example that he, he can make, you know, if you left him with no musical instruments, he would do like what he did, which is take a Super Nintendo controller, figure out it's transmitting, its eight bits.
• 1:34:28
  Glen Erickson: And turn it into something that could create sounds.
• 1:34:33
  Glen Erickson: yeah, it's, he's the mad scientist.
• 1:34:36
  Glen Erickson: He's the genius wizard, all of those things.
• 1:34:38
  Glen Erickson: So anyhow, that was pretty
• 1:34:39
  alexi: very.
• 1:34:40
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:34:40
  Glen Erickson: Well, thank you for your time and I hope that.
• 1:34:42
  Glen Erickson: Your work goes well tonight.
• 1:34:44
  Glen Erickson: If you have, I don't know.
• 1:34:45
  Glen Erickson: You probably don't have work left to do.
• 1:34:46
  Glen Erickson: Are you done your work for the night?
• 1:34:48
  Glen Erickson: Did I get you at the end of
• 1:34:49
  alexi: of my night?
• 1:34:49
  alexi: Yep, it's eight 30.
• 1:34:51
  alexi: It's
• 1:34:51
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:34:53
  Glen Erickson: You're such an old lady.
• 1:34:54
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:34:55
  Glen Erickson: I'm just kidding.
• 1:34:56
  Glen Erickson: Okay, Thank
• 1:34:57
  alexi: Excited for next week.
• 1:34:58
  Glen Erickson: Excited for next week too.
• 1:34:59
  alexi: Bye.