Latest / History Dark / A Perfect Life Hiding a Deadly Secret _ Killer Women With Piers Morgan

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A Perfect Life Hiding a Deadly Secret _ Killer Women With Piers Morgan · History Dark

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: What people have said to us about you, you're a
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: serial liar. You're a psychopath. You think you're smarter than
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: everybody else. You're brutal. You're capable of acts of appalling savagery.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: You're a murderer. When you get in there, she'll try
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: and manipulate you. But she's a cold-blooded killer. That's what
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: they say about you. How does that make you feel?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I just feel that people don't know me. Did the
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: state prove to you that I was there on that day? Well,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: they can't do that.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: To brutally beat and stab Annalisa the way that she
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: did and watch her die, and then to attack someone
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: like she did her husband... takes a unique personality.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: She's the one you don't expect. Educated and comes from
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: a good background. She's the one that everybody goes, it's
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: not her.
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: Sheila Dablow killed one person and almost killed another person.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: I think she's probably one of the most dangerous people
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: I've ever seen.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: The crime scene is about half a mile from here, right?
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: But what strikes me immediately, it's just so peaceful.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: On that day, the complex was filled with landscapers, FedEx, UPS, deliveries.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: A lot of busy people.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, cleaning people, yes.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Which is easy to mingle in if you want to
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: just keep incognito. On November the 8th, 2002, Annalisa Raimondo,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: a rising star in the pharmaceutical industry, chose to work
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: from home.
• 2:34
  Speaker 6: Hello? Yes, hello.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I'm a guy in....
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: That decision would cost Annalisa her life.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: OK, can you tell me what the guy looks like?
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: What does he look like? Homicide detective Greg Holt was
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: one of the first on the scene. Right here, this
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: is where It all happened. So that stairwell over there,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: that leads up to Annalisa's apartment, right?
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Correct. The responding officer, he was a 20-year veteran, had
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: been to several homicide shooting scenes prior, and that never
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: left him. With the multiple stabs and even a stab
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: in the face.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Just talk me through what you think happened in the
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: events leading up to Annalisa's death.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: I think Dabalu went into work that morning because she
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: had to determine if Annalisa was going to work at
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: home or here. And when she determined that Annalisa was
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: working for home, that was the perfect opportunity. So she
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: came in through the unmanned security gate, parked somewhere in
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: the parking lot. I think she walked right up, knocked
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: on Annalisa's door. Once she got in, I envision Davalou
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: slammed that door and the blitz attack was on. And
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Annalisa literally fought for her life. She was a small woman,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: but she was in very good shape. Plants were turned over,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: furniture was turned over, and you could tell that they
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: had gone around in a circle in that foyer. She
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: was stabbed all over. And ultimately, Annalisa sustained a cranial injury,
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: probably from a dumbbell that we found in the foyer
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: that Annalisa used for workout. This was targeted. Total, brutal rage.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: You've never quite got over this case, have you? I mean,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: this lived with you for a long time, and it
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: lives with you now.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: This will be the one that cops say they'll always remember.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: This is the one for me.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: At the time of the murder, Sheila Davalou also worked
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: in the pharmaceutical industry. Highly educated, and earning a six-figure salary,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: she lived in an affluent area of New York State.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: She seemed an unlikely murderer. But of all the women
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I've interviewed in this series, Sheila Davalou is the most dangerous.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I have been granted one hour with her inside Bedford
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Hill's maximum security prison. You've never given an interview and
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: you've been here 15 years now. Why have you now
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: decided to talk?
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I haven't given one before because I felt that it
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: really never served any purpose because my battle is in
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: the court, is with the law. That's where my focus
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: has always been and still is.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: As we sit here, you're in the middle of a
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: 25-year sentence for the attempted murder of your husband. The
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: moment that finishes, you then commence a 50-year sentence for
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: the murder of a young woman. You maintain that you're
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: completely innocent of everything.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: No, that's absolutely not right.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: What do you admit to in terms of guilt?
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I'm far from innocent. However... I think the story is
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: nobody's really care to delve into the story to see
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: if there is another possibility.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Here's the theory. In the end, the detectives and the jury,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: everybody basically concluded was what happened. You fell in love
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: with this guy at work, you're in an unhappy marriage,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: and you want to be with this guy, but you
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: can't because he has this other girl he's in love with.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: And when you confront her and tell her about the affair,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: a fight starts and you end up killing her. That's
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: what everybody believes happened.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: It's not the truth, though.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Isn't it?
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: No.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: At first, police struggled to find any motive for Annalisa's killing.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: It would take ten years before Sheila was convicted of
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: her murder. This case was an extraordinary one for you.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Why did it mean so much to you?
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: When we sat down with Dr. and Mrs. Raimondo for
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: the first time, I looked over and Mrs. Raimondo is
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: looking at me and she trusted us with this investigation
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: of her daughter's brutal killing. And that just grabbed a
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: hold of me and said, we've really got to run
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: this down somehow. Annalise was such an intelligent, sweet, kind,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: young lady who was living a good life. No reason
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: to believe that she was gonna be targeted. Great career
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: ahead of her, and just, I mean, this is just senseless.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Have you encountered a more dangerous person than Sheila Deverly?
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Although she comes across very, very mild-mannered, psychologically, I think
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: she's probably one of the most dangerous people I've ever seen.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: They say that you left your building at work and
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: that you had enough time between leaving and returning a
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: few hours later to have committed this murder. There's enough
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: time for you to have physically done it.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I think that it's very important in a circumstantial case
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: for the prosecutor to place me at the scene of
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: the crime.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So your conviction now is that you just went from
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: work and you went home.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I shopped. And I used to shop at a nearby
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: health food store. And I went home. And my tower...
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: You never.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Went anywhere near Annalisa's apartment?
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I... am certain that I wasn't there in
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: that area. My cell phone records shows that I have
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: made a phone call two minutes after that 911 call
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: at 12.15 out of Portchester, New York. If the prosecutor
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: had cell tower records that would place me at the
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: scene of the crime, he would have used them.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Cell tower records work. never used at trial to place
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Sheila in Annalisa's apartment. But she could still have been there.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Trying to make sense of this murder seems to come
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: down to this question. Is Sheila Davalou really capable of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: viciously stabbing a defenceless young woman multiple times? In the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: weeks after the murder, she wasn't even a suspect. Greg,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: the strange thing was after Alisa died, within a few hours,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend, Nelson, turns up. And his behaviour is just
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: a little odd.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: You come home from work, You pull into your condo,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: which is a very quiet area. You park your car,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: and all you see are police cars, crime scene vans.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Your average person would just charge that police line and
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: want to get into their house, want to see if
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: their soon-to-be fiancé is okay. He went in the boat shed,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: laid down, and went to sleep.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: He, for quite a while, was your prime suspect because
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: of his behavior until you established a cast-iron alibi for him.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Once you ruled out Nelson, you really hit a bit
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: of a wall because there's no obvious suspect after that, right?
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: We had absolutely nothing.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Then comes this breakthrough, this extraordinary breakthrough, which involves a
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: completely different crime, way away from Stanford. Tell me about
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: the breakthrough.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: I was home, and I get a phone call from
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: one of the sergeants in major crimes, and he said, Greg,
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: suit up and come on in. I'll never forget it. Quote,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Annalisa's breaking wide open.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: 20 miles from the site of Annalisa's murder, a man
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: had been found in a hospital car park with multiple
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: stab wounds. This attack, seemingly unrelated to Annalisa's, eventually led
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: police to a vital piece of evidence connecting the two cases.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Within one hour, detectives had a suspect for the man's stabbing.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: His wife, Sheila Davalou.
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: This was a professional, educated woman in a marriage who
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: had tricked her husband into being in a position where
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: she could stab him multiple times, including once through the heart.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: That is.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Uncommon, to say the least. Five months after Annalisa was
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: stabbed to death, police arrested Sheila Davalou. She had stabbed
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: her husband, Paul, and tried to kill him. He comes
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: back to the house that day, and they start playing
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: a game.
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: What is that game?
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: Sheila says, let's play this game. I heard about it
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: at work with a bunch of girls. I think it
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: would be fun for us to reconnect. So Paul does
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: anything because he sees his marriage a little bit starting
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: to part. So she says the idea is we'll use handcuffs.
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: We'll handcuff each other. And so Sheila starts. She's handcuffed.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Paul handcuffs her to the chair and blindfolds her. And
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: he's supposed to get items throughout the home. And she's
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: supposed to guess what they are. And that's what they do.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: Like he rubs them on her face or on her stomach.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: And she's supposed to say, you know, the dog collar.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: And so that was the game that they were playing.
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: Joe, I'm not here, Joe. Hey, I'm not at all.
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: I just want to.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, you think I did it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Well, I think something went wrong.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not saying.
• 13:45
  Speaker 7: Something went terribly wrong, but I didn't... I'm not saying
• 13:47
  Speaker 7: I did it with intent to hurt him.
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: I'm not saying that.
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: I just got a count where he's giving me a
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: story that we're playing a game and everything's fine.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: And then he gets hurt.
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: I want you to understand an accident happened and he's
• 14:00
  Speaker 7: blindfolded and said, you know, something went wrong. And, you know,
• 14:03
  Speaker 7: but I'm trying to understand the second step, which I
• 14:07
  Speaker 7: know didn't occur at the same time the first one did.
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: And I know he didn't do it to himself because
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: it wasn't possible, but it was possible for him to
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: do it to himself.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Tell me about Paul. What kind of relationship did you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: have with him for years before you got married?
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Paul and I had a very weird, weird relationship. This
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: is the part where... I think through tacit agreement or collusion,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: we had decided to not discuss at all because it's
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: very embarrassing.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: You play games. Yes. It's not that embarrassing. A lot
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: of married couples do that.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's as uncommon as you think.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: It's uncommon from what I've heard in terms of owning handcuffs.
• 15:03
  Speaker 6: It's not.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, if you say so. Well, it's not something you
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: want to mention in a court of law, I think.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: All right, did you say anything suggestive or anything like
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: that to your wife?
• 15:19
  Speaker 8: No.
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: While you were doing this, did you ever slip any
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: item underneath your clothes or anything like that?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: No.
• 15:25
  Speaker 9: At that point of our marriage, we weren't even romantic anymore,
• 15:27
  Speaker 9: so there was no sexual aspect to the game at all.
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: The first part of the interview that I did with Sheila,
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: she was under the impression that Paul had died. She
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: didn't know he had survived. We kind of let her
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: think that he didn't make it to surgery. I think
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: she thought she would tell us a story, Paul didn't
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: make it, and we would never be none the wiser.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: What position did she take up on?
• 15:50
  Speaker 9: She was sitting on my midsection, pretty much right on
• 15:55
  Speaker 9: my chest area. My legs kind of underneath her, and
• 15:59
  Speaker 9: she actually touched the item to my face. I couldn't
• 16:03
  Speaker 9: identify what it was. All of a sudden, I felt
• 16:06
  Speaker 9: like a large thrust on my chest. It felt like
• 16:09
  Speaker 9: a heavy weight was dropped on my chest.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: He's very strong.
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: I don't understand that, but his upper body wouldn't have
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: been able to come in.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: He's sitting on top of himself.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: She stabbed him.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: She stabbed him.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: And then while he's kind of trying to, you know,
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: get his bearings, because he was just stabbed, he feels
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: an even heavier thrust to his chest.
• 16:52
  Speaker 9: She said, oh, my God, I think I hurt you,
• 16:54
  Speaker 9: you're bleeding. And I started to get winded, I started
• 16:58
  Speaker 9: to sweat a little bit.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Bleeding from the stab wounds and struggling to breathe, Paul
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: convinced his wife to take him to hospital. But it
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: appeared that Sheila had no intention of seeking medical help.
• 17:17
  Speaker 9: She exited the car, came around to the rear driver's
• 17:20
  Speaker 9: side door, As she's moving my foot, I see her face,
• 17:25
  Speaker 9: like with an angry expression, and she lunges at me.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: You looked at her face, and you saw what kind
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: of expression?
• 17:34
  Speaker 9: Like a distressed, angry-type look. I didn't see the knife
• 17:38
  Speaker 9: at that point, but I felt a sharp jab into
• 17:40
  Speaker 9: my chest, and then when she recoiled, I saw the knife.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And what happens?
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: He starts screaming and he realizes that he has to
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: fight for his life and he gets the knife away
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: from her so she can't get it back and he
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: starts telling people, you know, help, help, and finally people
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: do come and she jumps in the car and takes off.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: You drive to the back and Paul's in the back
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: seat of the car. You then open the back door
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: and you stab him again. That's not part of any
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: game now.
• 18:17
  Speaker 8: No.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Why did you stab him again?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: We had another altercation there and we had a lot
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: of words and we wanted to talk, we were talking
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: about what to say and how to tell people what
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: happened and we had a big disagreement and I still
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: had the knife in my hand and he, I threatened
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: him with the knife And he took the knife, he threatened,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: oh no, he threatened to take the knife out of
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: my hand that he was gonna kill me. And we,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I just lunged at him and he grabbed the knife
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: out of my hand and threw it away. And I
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: have no good explanation for any of it.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, the fairly obvious one is if you're not you,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: is that you're trying to kill him because you've had
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: two goes at it in this game. And he's still alive,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: so he can tell perhaps the real story. And the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: way to stop him telling the real story is to
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: finish him off.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: True. However, I tried very hard in desperation to get
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: him out of the handcuffs. And that's contradictory to somebody
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: wanting to kill somebody.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: But Sheila, you stabbed him in the heart.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I don't think I knew where I was stabbing him.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I wasn't aiming.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Why are you still stabbing him at all, given you've
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: already stabbed him twice and he's now at a hospital
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to receive emergency treatment, and now you think the best
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: way for him to get treatment is to stab him
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: in the heart? How does any of this make sense?
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: No, it really doesn't make sense. You're absolutely right. I just...
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: I think I wasn't... I think we were just very confused,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: both of us. And he was.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I bet he's confused.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: He's wondering why his wife's stabbing him to death.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: That's confusing.
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: None of this makes sense to me.
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: Can't go by that.
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, if you're saying I stabbed him twice in
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: the house and then the third time in the hospital.
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: Why wouldn't I stab him the third time in the hospital?
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: I'm just here in the middle.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: The evidence from the very beginning was overwhelming that she
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: had stabbed Paul and almost killed him. You stab someone
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: in the heart, it actually nicks the heart, that's a
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: very precise act. And the fact that he was immobile
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: and she stabbed him in that area three times, one
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: time nicking the heart, that's a very precise act that
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: really shows intent to kill. Because there's no other intent
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: that's consistent with stabbing someone in the heart. She doesn't
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: appear like someone who would be a threat. She's not
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: a physically imposing person. She speaks in a very educated way.
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: And she doesn't come off as the type of person
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: who would be capable of extreme violence, which she clearly
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: was when we looked at the evidence.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: My inclination would not be that I could imagine you
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: stabbing somebody as brutally to death as Annalisa was stabbed
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: to death, just doesn't seem like you would do that.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: But then I know about what you did to Paul.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I think that plays, you're absolutely right, I think that plays... But.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Why wouldn't it play into anybody's mind that you are
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: clearly capable of committing an act of savagery involving a knife?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: He had used it earlier.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: On you?
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: He'd used a knife on you?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: How?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: He ended up cutting me with the knife.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Where did he cut you?
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Right in the chest. And I still have a scar
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: of it. And I think that.
• 22:23
  Speaker 8: I I.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Think the pain was just too much for me at
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the time. I was always on the receiving end of
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: A beating. And I.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Wait. Your husband would repeatedly beat you?
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: No. I mean, it was consensual.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: He'd beat you consensually?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Out with his fists?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: What? Yes.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: He'd punch you?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Slap, punch. And I think at that point, with the knife,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: it just... I couldn't take it anymore. I just wanted to...
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I guess I just wanted him to see how it felt.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's never said he's ever hit you like that.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: In fact, he said the complete opposite. He said in court,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: under oath, that you had never shown any violence and
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: there'd been no violence in this marriage ever.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I don't think we thought of it as violence.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Well, being punched and kicked and slapped and stabbed. Fairly violent,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: isn't it?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we didn't, I think we thought of it
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: as part of a game.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: But was he lying in court then, under oath? Because
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that's obviously a pretty serious offense.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: I think we didn't want to, neither of us wanted
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: to talk about that. I deferred to his testimony.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I've interviewed Sheila Davila. She says that they had played
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: this game many times before, but it had become increasingly violent.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: That Paul would repeatedly punch her, including in the face.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: He would slap her. And that she believed on that
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: day the level of violence after he took the knife
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: to her first and cut her across her chest had
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: reached such a point that she flipped and she attacked
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: him to defend herself.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: Never once did she even mention that. She had no
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: injuries on her when we arrested her. Anybody that ever
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: met Paul would never believe that story. For five minutes,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: you could meet Paul and know that wasn't true. And
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: I say that knowing that behind closed doors, things happen
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: in people's homes. You could put a gun to Paul's head,
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: he probably wouldn't punch her in the face.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Paul's just not that type of person.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Not a violent man?
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: Not at all.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: She thinks she's truly going to.
• 24:49
  Speaker 10: Fool us all.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: The crucial moment of detective work by you, you find
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: her phone. What does it have on it that rings
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: alarm bells to you?
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: The last call on her phone was to Nelson Sessler. Well, actually,
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: it just said Nelson. We didn't know who he was
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: at the time. It just said a call to Nelson.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: So you're immediately curious?
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm nosy.
• 25:13
  Speaker 8: Detective Carpenteria came here with a phone, a cell phone
• 25:17
  Speaker 8: that had a person's name in it from a crime
• 25:19
  Speaker 8: scene they had over in New York. She asked if
• 25:22
  Speaker 8: anybody knows anything about this Nelson Sessler. One of our
• 25:26
  Speaker 8: guys here, Frank Licona, says, wait a minute, that's the
• 25:29
  Speaker 8: boyfriend in the Annalisa Raimondo homicide.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: They let me look at the crime scene photos, and
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: they let me listen to the 911 tape. I told
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: them right away. I said, I just interviewed her for
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: 10 hours straight. That is Sheila Davalou.
• 25:50
  Speaker 8: Nelson, who is Annalisa's boyfriend, is in Sheila's phone. There's
• 25:56
  Speaker 8: got to be something going on here. I believe Sheila
• 26:12
  Speaker 8: probably decided, I want to be with Sessler. And she
• 26:15
  Speaker 8: went to the house and confronted Annalisa and things got
• 26:18
  Speaker 8: out of hand. And she had the knife with her
• 26:21
  Speaker 8: or something. She used whatever she could. There were dumbbells there.
• 26:25
  Speaker 8: There was, like I said, it was a brutal scene.
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: A lot of things bled all over and did what
• 26:30
  Speaker 8: she did and left.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: The big breakthrough in this case, as far as the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: police are concerned, comes when you are arrested in connection
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: with what happened with Paul, and there's a detective who
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: picks up your phone and sees that you called this
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: guy Nelson. And they confront Nelson, and eventually he concedes
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: that you've been having a relationship with him.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: My relationship with Nelson was very much an affair. But
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: I think in my defense, Paul and I had already
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: started talking about divorce because we had grown apart way
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: before I had met Nelson.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: You really like this guy, right? I mean, you fall
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: for Nelson.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't see it that way. I didn't
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: see falling for him. I think we weren't, he was
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: very intelligent. You know, he's a good looking man. Very funny, witty. However,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I think... You were in love with him.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know why you're shy of admitting that. I.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Didn' t see it that way. I didn't see Nelson as...
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I could have... If I wanted to be with Nelson,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I could have easily divorced my husband.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Well, except Nelson's with Annalisa.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: True.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: You can only be with him if she's not on
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the scene. How do you categorize Sheila Deverly?
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: She's very calculating and manipulative. She can use people to
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: get what she wants.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: So when Sheila Deverly looks me in the eye and says,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: it was nothing really important, I wasn't in love with him,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: certainly wasn't obsessed with him.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Her obsession was extreme to the point where she was
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: googling every street name, Nelson. So she went to see
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: a doctor, a psychiatrist, in September, months before Annalise was killed,
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: because of her obsession. I mean, she was listening to
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: all his voicemails at work. Nelson Cecil would be on
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: a plane to Vegas, and all of a sudden, Sheila
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: Dallow was sitting next to him. And she's like, how
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: did we end up on the same plane?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Sheila was now the prime suspect in Annalise's murder. But
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: detectives in Connecticut still had no hard evidence until a
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: sample of her DNA was taken when she was arrested
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: for stabbing her husband. The real meat on the bone
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: came with a tiny piece of blood DNA sample that
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: you found on this tap at Annalisa's home. Tell me
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Tom called me one day. and said, Greg, are you
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: going to be home? Can I come over? And I said, oh,
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: of course you can come over. And he knocked on
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: the door. And he looked at me. And I'm, what?
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Tom?
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: He goes, I'll never forget this. He goes, we got her,
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: quote unquote. And I said, what? He goes, the DNA
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: came back, and it's Sheila's. That was just, that was overwhelming.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Are you 99.9% certain that that was her DNA, or
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: are you 100% certain?
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: 100% certain, absolutely. There's no question in my mind. When
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: someone is utilizing a knife in an attack, it's very
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: common as you stab and you get blood on your
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: hand for that hand to slip down the knife and
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: you cut yourself. I know she cut herself there. Then
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: she went into the bathroom to at least clean up
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: so I can get out of here in broad daylight.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: But I'm sure that she had blood. I'm sure she
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: was disheveled. I'm sure that, you know, Annalisa had pulled
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: her hair. I mean, this was a drastic fight. I'm
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: sure that she was the perpetrator in this crime. She
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: was there. She was injured. She bled in that sink.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: There was still work to be done, but we knew
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: we now had our purpose.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: The obvious question, and it was one that the jury
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: found overwhelming in terms of evidence. How could your DNA
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: be anywhere near Annalisa's apartment if you'd only been there
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: once before? How do you explain it?
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I think it was the summer before.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: But way too long for DNA to exist.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Way too long. You're absolutely right.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: You accept that? You accept it's way too late. You
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: accept it couldn't have been from when you went there
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: to the housewarming, right?
• 31:20
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: In fact, I've never been in that bathroom before. Right.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: So you've never been in the bathroom.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: You've been to the apartment once for a housewarming, but
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: way before the time that any DNA could have been.
• 31:32
  Speaker 8: Absolutely.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: So you accept that. Yes. So how do you explain
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: that your DNA is on that bathroom tap?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Of the 50 or so sealed pieces of evidence, only...
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: one piece of evidence left the crime lab. And that
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: one piece of evidence happened to be the sink handle
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: that left the crime lab and was resubmitted to the
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: crime lab. And I've been trying to, you know, rack
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: my brain and try to figure out why.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Even if you buy into your theory that there was
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: somehow some deliberate tampering to frame you, here's what I
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: can't work out. You were not a suspect. It was
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: a long time. before anybody ever raised your name in
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: connection with what had happened.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: If they had the DNA, and if it was conclusive,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: they didn't come forward with the arrest warrant until five
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: years after.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Well, they didn't want to rush it from their point
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: of view. I just know what they say. You were
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: in a 25-year sentence. They had plenty of time, and
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: they decided to arrest you when they felt they had
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the evidence they needed. and it was pretty compelling to
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: a jury. The other thing that was compelling was the
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: 911 call that was made after Annalisa was killed.
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: Hello?
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, hello. I think the guy.
• 33:09
  Speaker 11: Attacked my neighbor.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Do you think someone attacked your neighbor? First and foremost,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: I'd like to thank God for giving me the courage
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: and the strength to stand here today. This is a
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: case where I am being accused of killing somebody. Did
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the state prove to you that I was there on
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: that day. Well, they can't do that.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Almost 10 years after Annalise's murder, Sheila Davalou was finally
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: brought to trial. She faced the possibility of a life
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: behind bars. Yet she took the extraordinary decision to defend herself.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Mrs. Sessler. You had lied to the police?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, I wasn't forthcoming to the police.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: And what was the nature of that lie?
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: I hadn't told them that you had been my girlfriend
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: in the past and we had a relationship. Sheila's definitely
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: a smart person.
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: There's no doubt about that.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: She was successful in her career.
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: She was able to plan out horrendous acts, but she
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: was able to plan them out in a logical fashion
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: and for a while get away with one murder and
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: almost get away with what was almost another murder. I'm
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: pretty sure that she thought this was her best shot,
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: but it is always, always a terrible decision to defend
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: yourself in court.
• 34:56
  Speaker 12: She did seem like a normal, you know, she was sympathetic. Yeah,
• 35:01
  Speaker 12: she was smiling, very polite, well-presented in court, dressed humbly.
• 35:08
  Speaker 10: You're sitting there being presented with this evidence of a
• 35:11
  Speaker 10: brutal crime. Bloody pictures, all kinds of biological evidence, that
• 35:17
  Speaker 10: kind of thing. And then you turn to look at
• 35:19
  Speaker 10: somebody who's talking in the courtroom, and it becomes hard
• 35:21
  Speaker 10: to tie those two together. It's hard to think that
• 35:24
  Speaker 10: anybody that you would ever talk to or listen to
• 35:26
  Speaker 10: would be capable of something like that, who's there in
• 35:28
  Speaker 10: the same room as you.
• 35:46
  Speaker 12: We heard the 911 call early during the trial, and
• 35:49
  Speaker 12: then every day is a huge amount of information to retain.
• 35:55
  Speaker 12: So at the end of the trial, we wanted to
• 35:58
  Speaker 12: hear this recording again.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I saw a guy go into her apartment.
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: He was in there, and he had talked to her.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I heard yelling.
• 36:10
  Speaker 7: I heard yelling.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Hello?
• 36:20
  Speaker 12: At the beginning of the trial, I don't think we
• 36:22
  Speaker 12: had heard Shayla Davenport's own voice enough to make our
• 36:27
  Speaker 12: own decision as to what we heard through the 911 call.
• 36:31
  Speaker 12: Listening to it again at the end was actually, it
• 36:35
  Speaker 12: was shocking because you could hear really her voice. I mean,
• 36:37
  Speaker 12: that was my experience. I could really recognize her voice.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: The jury concluded that person who made the call was you.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know that. Is that true? Yeah.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: That's what the jurors have said afterwards, that they believed
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: it was you. But do you know why they think
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: it was you? Because you decided to defend yourself, they
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: listened to your voice. Every day. If you hadn't defended yourself,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: those jurors might have acquitted you.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: What's very, I find that very odd because that's the
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: reason I defended myself. Because I wanted them to hear me.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And those who knew me.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: You basically convicted yourself by doing that.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Those who knew me intimately and closely disagreed.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like me. I've listened to it and
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: I've only been with you for an hour. Sounds like
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: you to me.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think my husband, who was the closest
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: person to me, said that it could be her trying
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: to disguise her voice. That's odd. I think.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Well, not really. I mean, if you've just killed somebody
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: and you're trying to build an alibi... But that's conjecture.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: But we're not in court now. This is me and you.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Right. I think that if.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: If you're saying that it could be her, you're not
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: decisively saying it is her. And that's very odd for
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: somebody's husband not to be able to pinpoint his own
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: wife as the caller. He's not defending me.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Well, he couldn't be sure, he said.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: And that's, I mean, you are sure.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I just said it sounds like you.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I think that's... I think the DNA evidence is compelling.
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I think the 911 call sounds like you. And I
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: believe you tried to kill your husband.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: But you divorce a husband. You know, I am the breadwinner.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I'm supporting my husband. I have the higher income. He's
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: living in my house. I didn't have to get rid
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: of him. I could have divorced him. It would have
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: been cheaper. It would have been easier. I gained nothing
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: by killing Paul.
• 38:54
  Speaker 10: I think what I saw above everything else is she
• 38:56
  Speaker 10: seemed to be somebody who thought she was smarter than
• 38:59
  Speaker 10: everybody else around her. She thought she knew better and
• 39:01
  Speaker 10: that came out when she was defending herself.
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: It fit a consistent pattern that she was having an
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: affair and she eliminated the fiance of the man she
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: liked and then tried to kill her husband. She tried
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: to get rid of both people that were standing in
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: the way of her being with Nelson Sessler.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: The defendant, Sheila Dablu, please rise and face the jury.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: What say you, Mr.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Portperson?
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: Is she guilty or not guilty? Guilty.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: You don't get the impression of somebody incredibly dangerous, and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: yet she clearly is very dangerous.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: I think she can ramp up that danger in her
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: to a point where it becomes open physical aggression. I
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: think she's probably one of the most dangerous people I've
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: ever seen.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: You're in here now for the rest of your life.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: What is life like for you in here?
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Um, life is decent. Um, it's peaceful. Uh, I, um,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: I'm very active in the community. I'm at peace and
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: I'm fighting my case.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: When your parents come to see you, when your parents
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: come to see you, it must break their heart, doesn't it?
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: There was this brilliant, beautiful daughter who had everything to
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: live for, who had a great job, was married to
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: a good guy. He lived in a lovely community, nice place. Yeah.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Two dogs. Everything was... Yeah. And now this. But the
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: saddest thing for me is your apparent self-delusion that you've
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: maybe convinced yourself you didn't do this.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: No, because I didn't. I mean, I don't have a
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: split personality disorder or anything like that. I wasn't there.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: It doesn't really affect me in any way if people
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: believe me or not.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: But it Yeah, but you're doing an interview because presumably
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: you think people should believe you.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: You know, if you were to believe me, it wouldn't
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: help me in any way. So I'm not sitting here
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: really to try to convince you. I'm just telling you
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: how it is and what it was. And it's not pretty. Still,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: my story is not eloquent. It's not, you know... I'm
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: not denying what I did to my husband. I did
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: not want to kill him. I am beyond relieved that
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: at least I don't have two murders on my rap sheet. However,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I will, you know, to the last day that I'm
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: alive be working on proving my innocence in Connecticut.
• 42:29
  Speaker 8: Oh, I think she's very dangerous.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: I do. I think if she was out, she'd probably
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: do it again.
• 42:36
  Speaker 8: Find somebody to be with for a while and then
• 42:39
  Speaker 8: find somebody else and something probably would happen.
• 42:42
  Speaker 11: The deterrent effect of any sentence imposed really has very
• 42:50
  Speaker 11: little meaning here other than to send a message that
• 42:53
  Speaker 11: it cannot be tolerated in our society. That cold, calculated nature,
• 42:58
  Speaker 11: that terrible act that occurred cannot be accepted by the people.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm hoping for the best. I'm still very
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: hopeful and I feel positive still.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Sheila, thank you.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you.