Latest / Drawn of History / JRE MMA Show _185 with Ethyn Ewing(M4A_128K)

Transcript

JRE MMA Show _185 with Ethyn Ewing(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day. Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My man.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Good to see you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: It's good to be here. I like your shirt. I
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: appreciate it.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Professor Finesser. Is that your Professor Finesser line?
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This is one of my designs of my Professor Finesser line.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Got the cross guard there.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I like it. That's dope.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: We got a couple different symbols. Something that I'm building up.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I want to get out to the people.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: It's a cool nickname.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: It's... It's unique for sure. It came about a funny way,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: but I like it. The mantra that it brings to
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the fight game and to who I am is perfect.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Well, it's finesse, and you fight with a lot of finesse.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: So we should start from your UFC debut because that
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: was when you really burst onto the scene. You fought
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: this guy, Malcolm Wellmaker, who's a killer, vicious knockout puncher,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: and had a ton of hype behind him because of
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: his performance. Was it the Contender Series where you had
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: the big performance?
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: It was all three of them.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Contender Series, you knocked that dude out. And then I
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: don't remember who was second, but then it was Chris
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Moutinho was the third one that he knocked out like that.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: And you put on a show, man, and nobody had
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: heard of you. And that's one of the craziest things
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: about this sport is that there can be a guy
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: like you that's learning and growing in the shadows. And
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: then they get the call. And on, I think it
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: was two days notice. Yeah. So two days notice, you
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: fought above your weight because you're a bantamweight normally and
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: you fought a featherweight. And, dude, you just– it wasn't
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: just that you fought a guy who was this vicious striker.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It was the calmness and the technique and the smoothness
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: of it all that was so impressive. And I was like,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: this guy is different. Like the way you fight is
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: very intelligent. And I love that. I love watching a
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: guy who's just all technique and and movement and you're
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: you're the epitome of.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: That i appreciate it um that's something i pride myself
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: on that's i think maybe it's because i've i've delved
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: into more of a boxing realm with perfecting the striking
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and really focusing on um that that technical aspect that
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: style but yeah it's to me to watch guys go
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: in there and just brawl it out and say uh
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Let's see who can take more punches before the other
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: guy drops is just silly to me. Like you said,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I like to fight with finesse. I like to hit
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and not get hit, and champions don't take return fires.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I hope to have a lot of longevity with this game,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: and that's why I fight that way.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: That is the formula for longevity. I was having a
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: conversation with Fedor, the guy who's sitting next to us,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: who's one of the best pool players in the world.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: We just got back from Waze to Well, so shout
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: out to Brigham. and all the people at Ways to
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Wealth for taking care of us. But he and I
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: were talking about fighters and about, it's very similar to,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I think, everything, whether it's pool or golf. There's the
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: people that really focus on technique and fundamentals and really
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: objectively look at what they're doing and refine it. And
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: we were talking about guys who just stand in front
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: of each other and blast each other. I'm like, look,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: the crowd will cheer. They will love to see you,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: but your career will be shorter, and the end will
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: be bad. The end will be bad. And then you'll
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: probably fight past the time where you should, and no
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: one's going to stop you. Maybe you have one or
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: two close friends that will tell you when you're going
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: to hang them up. But a lot of coaches let
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: guys fight way too long, and I think the organization
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: lets guys fight way too long. There's a few guys that,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: in the past at least, I've seen them on the
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: lineup in an upcoming fight, and I'm like, oh, God.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: And then I see who he's fighting. I'm like, Oh God.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't want to see this guy take any
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: more punishment. I don't, you know, enough is enough. And
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: those styles of just face first, just attacking boy, the
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: audience loves you. And that's a trap, right? That is
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: a real trap. Yeah.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, a hundred percent. And I think that's, it's
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: almost a little frustrating that the general public gives that
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: kind of energy to that kind of a match.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I get it. It's exciting. You want to see blood spilled? Like,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: people just really enjoy the chaos of all that and
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: all the movement and the energy that goes into it.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you're, you're foregoing that whole technical aspect, like
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: the perfection of controlling the dance from the beginning to
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: the end and everything in between, you know, it's, and
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: it's almost just like a, like an educated street brawl.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: You're getting in there and just swinging and going crazy.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: And to me, that's not what martial arts is. I mean, it's,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: it literally is the, the chase of perfection to it of,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you know, like, The hit and don't get hit, that
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: is the art of boxing, but the art of striking
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: and martial arts. You want to be near perfect in
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: the way you engage in this. Land the damage and
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: be able to cut those angles, move your head, pull
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: out the distance, and not take any of that in return.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: A lot of guys get cheered on initially, and so
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: it's unfortunate that maybe it's not unfortunate, but you just
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: see it a lot that Yeah, those guys get hyped
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: up at the beginning, and then all the other things happen,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: like you said.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, they are exciting. I love when
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: guys fight like that because it's just crazy to watch.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: But I have to set aside the rational part of
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: my brain that says this is not smart. It's not
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: a good thing for them. Right. And there's no future
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: in this. Eventually, it's going to catch up to you.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, if I watch these guys,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you know, get after it like Roman Puka versus– His
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: opponent on the Dana White Contending Series this last Tuesday,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I believe it was.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that was crazy.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Dude, I mean, I've trained with Roman a little bit
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: here and there. He's from the same area as me. Yeah,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the guy's very skillful, but at the end of the day,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: both those guys walked out of there just busted up.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, they went straight to the hospital. It's fantastic
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: to watch, but from a fighter's perspective, at least from
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: someone who's engaging in this on the same level as
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: they are, yeah, I don't know.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: That's why I like.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: you know, a little bit more of that precise style
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: with the boxing specifically, I guess. I've really drawn a
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: lot of aspects from it.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. I mean, there's an art to, like,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: a fighter that fights with style and a fighter that
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: fights with finesse. Like, I always go to Izzy in
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: his prime. Adesanya in his prime when he was just
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: styling on dudes. I mean, it was a beautiful thing
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: to watch. It was... It was like a dance. It
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: was almost like he was coordinating them. You know, he
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: was moving them into his strikes and everything was like feints.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: They were all like very specific to gauge reactions. And
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: he put it all into the computer. And the next
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: thing you know, he's tuning you up. Right. Yeah.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's dancing his way out into the octagon
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and then he's dancing in there, you know? Yeah. And
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I think the other thing that the general public doesn't
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: understand about this game is that it's a smart man's game.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: It's not a tough man's game.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: talk to you because I've seen a lot of your
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: quotes online. I've seen you talk. You're obviously a thoughtful person.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And I think you have to be to have that
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: kind of a style because it does take a lot
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: of thinking. It takes a lot of like what you're
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: doing in there by constantly overloading your opponent's nervous system
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: with movement and constant counters and being like, Right out
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: of range, but then right in range, and then right
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: out of range. There's a lot of intelligence involved in that.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And for someone like me who really loves the art
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: of it, I love watching a guy like you fight.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Because I really wish young fighters would emulate people like you.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Young fighters would see a guy like that, like, that's
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: what I want to fight like. I don't want to
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: be this guy who goes in there, and at the
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: end of my career, my face is just a roadmap
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: of scars, and I got CTE, but... boy, people remember
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: back in the day when I knocked that guy out
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: or when we had this fight of the night.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's taken a lot of experience, a lot
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of growth, a lot of seeing different things because when
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I was a wrestler, it was the I would style
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: of wrestling that I emulated and that I hope to emulate,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: which is just get in your face, break you down,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: break your spirit, break you physically, just completely wipe you
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: out with just outstanding pressure, you know. And I think
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I suffered with the finesse, with a little bit of
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: the technicality of setting things up and being smooth because
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I was just clubbing on your head, snapping people down, going, going, going.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: And I refined that. I've pulled back from that almost
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: too much, I would say, to where if I'm striking
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: with someone, I don't even want to engage in a
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: battle of physicality. These guys try to push and move
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and get up, and I'm like, you know, I'll sit
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: and I'll dance and I'll roll up and I'll shut
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: them down real quick. and I'm steering them off, and
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I'm throwing really quick, and they try to get physical
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: where they're really trying to make it a high pace
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and just more physical. I don't want to engage with
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: that at all. I want to steer from beginning to
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the end. I want to keep my heart rate as
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: low as possible. I want to land shots, and then
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I want to be back to sitting and, like you said,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: covering a distance, controlling everything where I can sit, I
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: can take my breath, and I can see what's coming next,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and then I can move accordingly. And so after being out,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: For a little bit of time, I've now even elevated
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: to another greater extent in my own mind that I'm
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: now starting to combine the two things to where before,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I shied away from it. I'm a
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: tough guy if we want to get physical, and if
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: it needs to go to that, I'm there all day.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong with that, but I'm fine in
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: that middle ground where I was too much of that
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Iowa-styled without the finesse. Now I was trying to be
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: all skillful, all finesse, dance around the Muhammad Ali shuffle,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: throw that flicker jab, be out of range, you know,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: and not want to engage in the physicality too much.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: And now I've elevated once again to where I'm finding
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: that perfect middle ground that I'm letting my ego go
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: in the gym to where if we do get to
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: that physicality or someone gets me with something, if it
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: doesn't look perfect, I'm not sitting there thinking, oh, I
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: need to look perfect and avoid these things. Now I'm
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: just sending it and getting after it. So it's an
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: ever-evolving game, and I'm just getting better all the time
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: with everything. So you'll never see me go in there
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: and brawl anybody, but you'll see less hesitation. You'll see
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: more precise shots, and then all the other finesse will
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: always be there.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Well, it is a constant work in progress, right? And
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of the more interesting things about
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: MMA is that you see a fighter when they first
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: start fighting in the UFC, and then you see as
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: fights go on, they get more fights, they get more confidence,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: they get more experience, and they also get significantly better.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of rare that you see athletes
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: in a sport, generally speaking, when they get to a
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: certain professional level, they're kind of already at their peak, right?
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And they might get a little better, but in MMA
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: in particular, you see dramatic improvement in fighters over the
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: course of four or five years, especially if they have
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: good management and good training. And one of the things
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that you're talking about is letting your ego go in
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: the gym. That is so important. It's so important to
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: recognize that training is for learning. You're not trying to
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: win every training session. You're not trying to win fights.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: You're trying to get better at winning actual fights. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: sometimes getting better at winning actual fights is addressing the
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: whatever weird weaknesses or weird places where you're not as
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: comfortable and getting comfortable there. And the best way to
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: do that is just force yourself in those situations. Yeah.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: It's hard to do though, because guys want to be dominant.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: They want to, you know, you don't want to lose
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: a training session. You don't want to give, you know,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: this guy that you're sparring with the impression that he
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: can kick your ass.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: So you want to get it back on them, but
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: sometimes it's smart to not. Yeah.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent. I mean, I'm, I'm over there. The
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Rotolo brothers are training over there at CSW with Eric
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Paulson right now. And, yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Those guys are phenomenal.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: They're the best in the world at what they do.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: They're so fun to watch. Those guys could put jiu-jitsu
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: on the map. Oh, yeah. Because the Rotolo brothers, like
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: when they do jiu-jitsu, it is like this chaotic, exciting,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: like very kinetic, very technical path to your neck.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Right. You know, that's what it is. It's just this
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: constant path to your neck.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Dude, and they got these monkey arms that it can
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: just wrap around your neck and get that darts choke
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: from anywhere, man. It's ridiculous.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Long arms are awesome.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: The long arms are insane.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Such an advantage. Like, Hodger Gracie had that. Yeah. A
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: lot of guys have that. Yeah. A lot of, like,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: the best darts guys. Hamzat has that. Right. Those long
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: arm guys. Fuck, man.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: And then, like you said, like, their ability to... They almost, like,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: enforce the chaos because that's where they thrive at, you know?
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: All that scramble situation.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: They're running, doing crazy jumps, like crazy sweep setups. Was
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: it Kate or Ty? I think I would say it
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: was Ty when he ran and he bounced off the
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: cage or the ropes and he runs back in and
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: double legs. It's like a WWE match. They're like thriving
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: off of that chaotic energy.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Scrambles. They're so good in scrambles. And it's really interesting watching.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Is it Ty that's doing one FC that is doing
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: MMA fights now?
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: They're both fighting.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: They're both fighting now. And it's going to be exciting
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: to have those guys enter into the UFC someday. Hopefully
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: they will.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. They're just freak athletes. It's something that
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: they've been around since they were super young. Yeah, I mean,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: even their striking, it's not super technical quite yet. They're
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: very brand new in it, but they got long reach.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: They're very methodical. They're athletic. They understand distances. from the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: jiu-jitsu world of setting up takedowns and closing that distance.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, what I was saying is going with that
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: kind of a guy, it's like the last thing I
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: want to do is engage in a grappling position with
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: them in the jiu-jitsu or in the MMA. But it's like, yeah,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the more I do that, I'm only going to get
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: better at doing that kind of stuff. Kill the ego,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: engage full head-on into– What you're bad at, that's the
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: only way to get good at anything.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Another great thing about those guys is they're totally natural.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And in the jiu-jitsu world, that's rare. Right. That's really rare.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Jiu-jitsu is a dirty sport, man. Yeah. Or, you know,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, is it dirty if everyone's doing it?
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: No.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Let me say it this way. It's an enhanced sport. Right.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: For the most part, the elite guys are on some
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Brazilian supplements. Yeah.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: It's legal, but they're all doing it.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: They're all juiced up.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of legal. Like, Abu Dhabi doesn't test.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: A lot of places don't test.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: So it's like, and you see these guys, there's no way.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Some of them, and, you know, kudos to guys like Gordon,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: like Gordon Ryan, who talks very openly about it. He's like,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: everybody's on performance enhancing drugs. Why wouldn't I be on
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: performance enhancing drugs? Right. My goal is to be the
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: absolute best that I can be, period.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: And the idea that the only reason why he's so
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: good is because of steroids is also equally ridiculous. Because
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: when he was younger and when he was much smaller,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: he was winning tournaments left and right and beating world champions.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And he was totally natural.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: There's no way you can say someone like Gordon Ryan
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: isn't the highest prowess of skill set for jiu-jitsu. His
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: technicality and his abilities there are unquestionable. Yeah, I mean,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: what are you going to do? If everybody else is
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: on that level, you're now at a deficit if you're
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: not taking it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: There's a few guys that don't.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And maybe, I don't know, obviously there's maybe some strength
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: deficit there, but that's why, again, going back to my
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: style and what I like to do, like the technicality
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: and having that ability, there's– there's just so many aspects
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: to everything. But if you're that much more technical than someone,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: then that can negate size to some extent that can negate, um,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: strength to some extent. Like there's, there's, there's a lot
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of equalizers there now, you know, on the, on the
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: opposite end, someone who's got that one hitter quitter, they
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: could be less technical, but they're always dangerous. If they
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: hit you one time and you go to sleep, then
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: all sins are forgiven. They could have got beat up
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: for two rounds straight and they knock you out. That's
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: all the crowd remembers. So, uh, There's a lot that
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: goes into it, but if you're that much more skilled
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: in your technicality, to me, that's the best you can do.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: That's what you're chasing.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: For sure. The really dangerous guys are the guys who
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: have that one-hitter quitter power, and then they get real technical. Yeah.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Those are the scary guys.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. I mean, now you have it all.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: That's the pinnacle.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: But it's often not the case, though. That's what's interesting
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: is power can be a curse. As can talent. Talent
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: can be a curse too because you don't work as
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: hard because you fuck everybody up in the gym and
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: so you don't show up for practice sometimes. You still
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: fuck these guys up. They're just not on your level
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: physically or for whatever reason. And then there's guys that
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: have that power that always just rely on that power
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: and never really develop the fundamentals. Like Deontay Wilder is
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: a great example of that. Deontay Wilder, who I think
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: is the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the history of
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: the heavyweight division. That fucking guy. And not a big guy. Yeah.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: But his power is nuts. And Teddy Atlas has the
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: greatest definition of it, description of it. He said, it's
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: the great eraser. Any mistakes he makes, one shot erases
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: them all. Yeah. It's so true.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, 100%. Yeah, I agree.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: But could you imagine if Deontay could move like Tyson Fury?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: If Deontay could box like Tyson Fury? Yeah. Also with
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: that crazy, insane power. Yeah.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: It's game over for anybody.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: That's game over for everybody.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Who stands in front of that guy?
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Not a single person, you know?
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  Speaker 2: and the products being advertised are intended for a United
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  Speaker 2: States audience. Yeah, if he could move like Usyk. I mean,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: it's a tall fucking order because no one can move
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: like Usyk other than Usyk, but imagine if he could
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: move like Usyk right you know I mean and has
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: that crazy stop bang right one shot you're in another
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: fucking dimension yeah and.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: That's you know there's and then that's that's obviously like
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: at a personal level like some people are blessed with
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: that talent like you said, or a skill set or athleticism.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Well, the power thing is just– it seems like it's
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: a gift. Yeah.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: No, it is. I mean, I think it was for us.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I was talking about Connor, and he was talking about
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: how the muscles connect to the muscle head differently. It's
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: like a long or a short one. So then you
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: either have like that real explosive power, but then your
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: cardio– suffers, whatever it is, he's going into it. It's
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: a gift. I mean, can you develop it to some extent? Yeah,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: of course. Now, the other thing with punching, with striking,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: is it's not always, like, power that knocks people out.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: It's the shot that you don't see coming that knocks
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: you out.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: You know? Yeah. And so, you know, then you can
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: kind of equalize on that playing field, I suppose, to
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: some extent, if you're getting people guessing, you're getting people fainting,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: you're hitting them with shots that they're not seeing.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Then you're going to get similar knockout finishes like that.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of guys that knock a lot of
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: people out that don't have one-punch power, for sure. Max
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Holloway is a great example of that. Like, Max has never,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: even though he has knocked guys out with one shot,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: it's generally, like, after a bunch of damage. Right. But,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, Max talked about it pretty openly about guys
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: like Conor and Jose Aldo, and he's like, they just
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: get tired quicker because of the speed and power. They're
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: so explosive. It's so much energy to try to close
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: the distance that quick and land those big, Nuclear bomb shots,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: but you only have a few of those in a
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: whole fight.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like Max's perspective on those two guys
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: may be construed just because of... I mean, he fought
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Conor the first time, I guess, when Conor was in
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: his prime, you know, when he was coming up at 145.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: It was almost before his prime.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: It was on that rise.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: They were both kids. I think Max was 20 at
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was... I think he was, like, the youngest
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: UFC fighter at that time or something.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: He was a different human back then.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: For sure. But I just think, like, because Conor's cardio
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: is something that I have noticed. It wasn't super poor, like, initially.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: When he was fighting at 145, I mean, to me,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: he never, like, Chad Mendes. They had a lot of
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: grappling exchanges. Chad took him down. Chad hit him with shots.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: You know, Conor just stayed nice, calm, cool, and collected.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: And he got back to the striking where he could
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: do that. But to me, he never was gassed out.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: But then you watch the second Diaz fight, and he's
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: running around the cage for five rounds. Now he's gone
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: up in a weight class. So then it goes back
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to what's his training regimen look like? He's not cutting
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: as much weight, so he doesn't have to be as disciplined.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: His diet changes. There's a lot of aspects. So, like,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know. The Conor one was weird to me
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: just because I saw a change in it when he
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: was– At 145, he didn't have poor cardio. As soon
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: as he left that weight class, his cardio waned. And
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: then Jose Aldo, I mean, that guy was undefeated for, what,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: 10 years? Champion for 10 years? And you never saw
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: him get tired. I never saw him get tired. Yeah,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Max fought him at a certain point when he was
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: a little bit older, this and that. So, I don't know,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: maybe that's just Max's perspective on that. I'm not saying
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Max is incorrect in what he's saying, but I don't know. There's...
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: To me, I haven't pinpointed exactly what's the right and
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: wrong way to do everything just because there's so many variables,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: especially in MMA. I mean, we were kind of discussing
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: it a little bit earlier. It's not just solely that
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: you have good cardio that allows you to continue to
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: perform in that fight. There's another aspect of how calm, cool,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: and collected you can be because, like we were talking,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: hitting the mitts and something, if you're real tense and
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: you're just trying to kill them, yeah, you're going to
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: burn yourself out. But if you're fast and snappy, you're
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: producing just as much, if not more power, and now
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: you're being more efficient with it. And so I don't know.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: The cardio one is a funky one in combat sports
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: It really is. But I think if you look at
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Jose Aldo, Jose Aldo, when he was on top, when
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: he was the king, he was wrecking everybody. And he
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: was the hammer most of the time. And he was
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: so athletic and so fast and had some of the
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: best leg kicks we had ever seen. Like the Uriah
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Faber fight. How fucking tough is Uriah Faber? Because that guy, many, many,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: many humans would have been stopped a long time ago
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: just from those leg kicks. And Uriah just kept trying
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: to the very last second. Even though he was way
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: behind the scorecards, never folded up his tent, he was
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: still trying. But Aldo wasn't the nail. You know what
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I'm saying? Like there was very few moments in a
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: fight where someone had really started overwhelming him. And one
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: of the things that Max has always been so good
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: at is knowing when to hit the gas and knowing
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: when to just slowly ramp up the pressure. And you
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: see guys start to fade. And Max is a cardio
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: fucking machine. I mean, super disciplined guy. And great camp.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Those guys in Hawaii really prepare him well. He is
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: always like 100. Like the fight with Gaethje. Fighting in
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: the fifth round of a fucking crazy chaotic war at
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: the same exact pace he was fighting in the first round. Right.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: So it's the experience of knowing what your body can do,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: when you can hit the gas, when you need to
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: back off, when to move, when not to, and when
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: you feel your opponent start to fade a little bit.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: You see the mouth being opened a little bit more.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: You see the movement looks a little sloppier.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Right. Oh, 100%. That's, yeah, knowing when to rest is
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: a big aspect of that as well because you go
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: and you– That's why a lot of the training you
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: do is that short burst. You hit your sprints. Maybe
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: you hit the straightaway on the track, and then you
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: jog and maintain because in a fight, you're never completely resting.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: You're always moving a little bit. That's a huge thing,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the experience. I think his style and just what he's created,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: like you said, in his camp is a high-output, high-volume individual.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: His body's probably.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Become.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: used to that, and that's how he performs normally.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was shocked that Conor wanted to fight him
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: in his first fight back after years off. I mean,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: five years is a long time to not fight. And
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: then to come back and fight a guy like Max,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: who's been constantly fighting the best guys in the world,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: and knowing that Max is a guy who never fades,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: and he's in very different— I mean, the only guy
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: who's really gotten him out of there is Ilya. And,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: you know, Ilya caught Max when Max went down from
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: 55 down to 45, which I think was a mistake.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: He was so big. He got so big to get
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: up to 55 to fight Justin. And he did it
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: over a long period of time, put a lot of
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: mass on. And then you essentially, you're starving yourself to
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: get down to 45 again. Your body's going to be
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: weak no matter what you do. It's not like when
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: he was fighting at 45, he maintained a lower weight class,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: knew exactly when to cut, and would make it no
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: problem each time. That last cut to 45 was a nightmare.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: It was a horror show. And so when he got
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: in there with Ilya, and then you're fighting El Matador,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: that motherfucker. You want to talk about technique. Technique and
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: his strike, the smoothness and efficiency, and the one punch,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: go night-night power. I mean, that guy has it above it.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Who the fuck did that to Charles Oliveira the way
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: that guy did? I mean, that's nuts. And up at 55.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Oliveira's a big 55, too. Yeah. I mean.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, him moving up to 55, those are some big
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: dogs right there. Big.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Especially when you look at him and Justin. When him
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: and Justin were, like, facing off, I'm like, that's a
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: way bigger dude. Like, Justin's bigger than me, and Ilya's
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: smaller than me. When I stand next to the two
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: of them, I'm like, this is crazy that Ilya has
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: the kind of power that he's just wrecking guys even
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: that are way bigger than him. Right. Yeah.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, his skill set is amazing combined with the power.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: That's someone you talk about has a skill set. And
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: the punching power, you know, and encompasses both those things. Yeah,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: he's got it all. I mean, and the thing with him, too,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: is he's just so calm, cool, and collected. I think
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: that's also something. I mean, I do a lot of, like,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: comparison from Muay Thai boxing to the MMA world because,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm in MMA, so I understand that there's
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: so many different aspects to it where, like, someone could
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: take you down, and that's going to affect your striking performance.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: skill set you know if you got someone who's real
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: dope wrestler and you're and you're a way better striker
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: if you're sitting there and worried about them taking you
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: down and smothering you your striking goes out the the
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: window a little bit because now you have a whole
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: different set of weapons that you're worrying.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: About um and you can get caught easier.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah especially if you're like just loading up on them
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: yeah you're gonna get ducked under and double-legged and and
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: then taken down and that's that's the whole thing but
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: um I forgot where we even started this train of thought. But, yeah,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's his collectiveness, too. But I
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: was saying there's comparisons to all these. And that's why, like, boxing,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: you see these guys, they might have a couple more rounds,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: but they come out in, like, the first round. Maybe
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: the second round is a feeling out round. You know,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: it's a slow buildup where they're collecting data. They're setting traps.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: They're doing a lot of that. And you see that
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: in MMA too. It's just not at the same level. Obviously,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: there's a greater skill set. There's more weapons to worry about.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: It is different. But I don't know. Obviously, I'm reaching
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: for peak perfection with everything. So if we're coming and
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: we're looking at distance control, I think the boxers do
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: it better. If we're looking at setting up feints and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: working off a jab especially, I think that's the most
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: frustrating thing when I watch MMA or UFC fights. and
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: watch the majority of the guys never ever use a
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: jab and it's always just this big overhand right. I'm like,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: what are you doing? you have two hands you have
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the jab set it up now I'm not saying that's
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: everybody but I see many people doing that but going
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: back to Teporia that's one thing that he does so
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: well is he's a shorter guy he sits back on
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: that back foot he's throwing that jab he's understanding your
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: distance control so he can get in And then that's
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: where he's got that power and he lets that go.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: It's going to be interesting to see how he rebounds.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Because that was a lot of damage. Two fractured orbitals.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: They had to stop the fight in between rounds. And
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: he took big punches from a guy who's got fucking
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: rocks in his hands. Justin can crack.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Well, they call him, what, the most violent?
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: The most violent in the game. And I think that
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: stands true. Yeah, that's a hard one to bounce back from.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: It's going to take... extra time of him really letting
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: all his injuries heal and be fully recovered before he
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: even thinks about sparring again, you know, ever get touched
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: in the face again. Yeah.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know where he's at now, you know, um,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: but I know that he's still recovering and it'll be
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: a while. I mean, the fight was in June. We're
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: doing this right now. It's August 30th. Was it 30th
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: or 31st? 31st. So, you know, he's had a couple
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: of months, but you know that he probably needs like
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: six months before he's even sparring again.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, It's going to take some time. It's going
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: to take some time. And the thing that I really
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: hate to see is when you have undefeated individuals like
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: that who have gone undefeated their whole career, feel invincible,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: and then sometimes that one takes them off their pedestal.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Like Jose Aldo is a great example of that. And
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: he came back and he fought tough, but he just
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: never was the same. He was never that untouchable. There's
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: probably many people that I can touch back on, but
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I think hopefully that's That's the main thing that he's
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: going to need is that mental indestructibility and to come
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: back and just be like, I'm the same person. That
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: one fight doesn't change anything, and I'm ready to go.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Do it again. Well, he's a very mentally strong guy,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: and I think he will bounce back in that regard.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: There's also just the reality of how much damage, and
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: only he knows how much damage he actually took in
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: that fight, how that affects him as well. Because you
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: know as well as anybody that there's only a few
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: of those kind of fights that you could have in
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: your career. And you've got to be very careful how
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: you recover from those. And a lot of fighters, a
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: lot of great fighters, have made a mistake of coming
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: back too soon. Volkanovsky is one that I point to
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: all the time, who's arguably the greatest featherweight of all time.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: He is one of the most masterful fighters in the game.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: He took a short, short notice fight with Islam in
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: the rematch and got head kicked. And then I think
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: it was only four months later that he was fighting Ilya.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And that is crazy. That's a crazy thing to do.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: He took a full head kick, shin to the dome,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: gets KO'd, and then four months later he's fighting the
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: fucking scariest challenger that he's ever had to face.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, 100%. You can't rush back into those things.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, especially when you're that cemented, you don't really
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: need to rush back into it.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: You have your legacy behind you.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Well, you shouldn't have even taken that fight with Islam.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: There's no way you should take a world championship fight
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: when you're hanging out with your buddies, drinking beer, eating
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: fish and chips or whatever the fuck he was doing.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: He's hunting with Volk over there.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: He's having a good time, but he wasn't in training.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: There's no way he was in training. He didn't look
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: like he was in training physically. His body didn't look
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: the same. Not only did he look out of shape,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: but he definitely looked smoother and less ripped than he
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: usually does.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: There's a difference to being in a two- or three-month
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: fight camp of day in, day out, two, three practices
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: a day. The diet's set. The mentality is set versus
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I'm just training on the outside of that.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: When you came in on two days notice to fight Wellmaker,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: were you in training at all? Like what was your scenario?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I was doing a food eating championship training. I was
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: killing double doubles and three by threes. No, but with
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: that one, I was fortunate because I stay strict pretty
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: much year round. So I had fought in January at
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the year. And then I was supposed
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: to fight multiple times. And I just had. I had
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: two or three opponents pull out. And then I fought
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: November 7th. For the title fight for the A1 combat.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Which was literally the weekend before. So. Fortunately I did.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I was. Even though people were falling out. I kept
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: to the course. I stayed strong. I stayed in a
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: fight camp mentality. That November 7th fight ended up happening.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: So.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I had a strong two months.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Still. Even that one week difference of. go and be
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: in a fight camp, and then I have a couple
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: drinks at the casino, I'm eating food, and I thought
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: to myself, because January was, it was a similar thing,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: where they said, February, Australia, get ready, get your passport,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: let's look into this, blah, blah, blah, you know, I
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: had a nice knockout finish there, but then, yeah, just
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: that one week of being off, of eating whatever I
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to, and just kind of doing whatever. I ran once.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I showed up to sparring and light touch sparred. I
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: had gone to one other practice because in my mind
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, I need to be somewhat ready for this.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I can have a week. I've been in fight camp
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: all year long. I can have one week, and then
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: that's the week that they call. It's a 48-hour notice, MSG,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: 10-0 undefeated Malcolm Wellmaker if you want it. And then,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: of course, I can't say no to that one.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: So had you fought the weekend before the Wellmaker fight?
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I fought November 7th, yeah.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Wow. That's actually good. If you didn't get hurt. Yeah.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Well, it was a minute and 30 seconds. I knocked
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: him out in the first round. So it was, to me,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: it's just the stars aligned. I mean.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Don't you think it's also good that you just had
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: the experience like seven days prior to the whole thing,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: getting in the cage, cage shots. You just fought. So
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: it's much more comfortable for you than if you had,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: like Connor, taking five years off. As elite as Connor is.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Double champ, one of the greatest of all time for that.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Even a guy like that, you take five years off
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: and you could see what it did to him. It
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: fucked with his head. Oh, yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: You could see it. There wasn't the same Conor energy
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: going into it. Of course, I always want a quick
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: turnaround after I fight just for that very reason. I
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: cut the weight. I know what that's like. I warmed
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: up in the back. With all the anticipation, you know,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and that energy flowing through my body, I walked out
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: in front of the crowd. They announced my name. I
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: got there. I actually fought someone. So, yeah, if you
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: have that going for you, then that's, yeah, it's way,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: way better for sure.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the more active you can be, the more comfortable
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: you can be with the experience as long as you're
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: not getting hurt. Here's a stat that I was reading
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: about Izzy. And people forget about this. When he was
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: a champion, he defended his title a lot, man. He
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: was the guy that they can go, hey, we need
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: someone to headline this card. And Izzy would step in.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And I think he fought three times. He defended the
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: world title three times in one year, which is crazy.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Because I don't think the middleweight title since he's gone
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: has even been. Like how many middleweight fights have there
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: even been for the title since he's been gone? There's
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: only been a few fights. I think there's only been.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's Sean and.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: And Drikus. Sean and Drikus, too. Drikus and Hamzat.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: And then Sean and Hamzat.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: And Sean and Hamzat. I mean, it might literally be, like,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: maybe five fights since he's lost the title. And, fuck,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: he defended it more than anybody.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, which is crazy. He defended it three times
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: in one year.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: And then you have this, you know, huge span of
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: time in between defenses.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: But then there's the question of, like... When does it
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: become a benefit and when does it become a detriment?
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Like when you're fighting too many times a year, like
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: the Murab-Davish-Willie fight. One of the things that a lot
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: of people talked about after Piotr Jan beat him in
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: the rematch was what about the strength of schedule? I mean,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Murab was fighting constantly. He was fighting. He fought so
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: often and for so many years that you got to
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: think that at a certain point in time, maybe he's doing...
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: himself a disservice by being so active. Yeah.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, for sure. Um, I don't know. I mean, that's,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it's something you got to feel out for yourself. You know, it's,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: it's something that you have to know in your heart
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: of hearts and nobody else can tell you that your
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: coach can't be like, nah, you're training really well these days.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: You're super sharp, this and that. Like if something's off realistically,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: you should be perfect going into your fight, especially at a,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: at a world championship caliber. Um, I keep making these comparisons,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: but it's another thing that I go back to with
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: the boxing world is these guys look at it as
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: a business. Look at Floyd Mayweather. He made sure that
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: the cage was his side. He picked the gloves. It
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: was certain people at certain times. There's some things to
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: be said about that, but it's a business mindset. It's
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: a very smart approach to it. I'm fighting when I'm ready.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not fighting injured, which is more of the main thing.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: People go in there with injuries and get hurt or
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: lose even. That could be detrimental on your record. I
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: think the MMA guys are a little bit more on
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: the tough side instead of the business side of things
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: where they'll fight anyone anytime, which, I mean, that's how
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: you got to be, but that's how you build your
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: team around you. You have a team that tells you, hey,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: this time isn't necessarily the best to go into it
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: and this and that, and just being a little bit
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: smarter about your schedule. It's like yeah us fighters are
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: going to sit there and go i'll fight anyone any
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: given time um doesn't matter but yeah this is this
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: is a business it's not just um fighting, like getting
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: in that cage solely. It's, it's a lot of aspects
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: that go into it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Don't you think it's way more difficult to go into
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: a fight perfect in MMA than it is in boxing though?
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: In boxing, it seems like it's much easier to avoid injuries.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: For sure. There's, there's, there's differences. I just, I reflect
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: back to that. I like the way that they conduct themselves.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's, and there's a lot that's to be
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: said to that because it's, it's a longer standing sport.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: There's been more time and experience into it, but yeah,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: a hundred percent. I mean, You know, I was, before
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: this April fight, the first round of the day of sparring,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I was just going light with Callum Bisping for literally
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: one second. And we moved around, and he's a heavyweight.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: We moved around. He tried to take me down. I
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: stuffed him. He took me down. And I kind of
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: just sat with it because I didn't want to get
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: caught in any, you know, knee-tweaking positions or anything because
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: he's just so much heavier than I am. And I
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: sat into a butterfly, which is typically how I would
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: do that, elevate the hips immediately and try to make
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: a scramble. And my meniscus just popped instantly right then
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: and there. First round of the day, barely had done anything,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: barely started. And it wasn't even like a crazy position. But, yeah,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: now I've sustained injury. Now I don't go against heavyweights
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: anymore because I'm stupid.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you should never be doing that.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: It's stupid.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: As a bantamweight, you should not be sparring with heavyweights.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Well, that's why I go the first day. Or not
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: the first day, but the first round. I'm just trying
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: to warm up. There's a lot of things to be said.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I grow and I learn and I get smarter every time.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I think you should only spar with guys that are
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: reasonably close to your weight period.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: 10 pounds is probably a maximum above you. You know,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't be going with anybody more than that. Yeah,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I get smarter with these things. I do dumb things
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: and I figure for the most of my history I've
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: had to learn the hard way with things so I'm
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: getting better at it. I'm getting smarter. But like I said,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: it was just a freak thing. It wasn't like we
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: were going crazy hard or anything like It just was
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: the first round. I was just trying to move, and
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: then some little thing happened.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: How bad is it?
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a full tear, but it happened back in, like, February-ish,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: right before that April one. So, leading up to the
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Esteban fight, it's like I didn't grapple until the last
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: maybe month of it, maybe.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: A couple weeks. Oh, so it was bothering you even
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: before that fight.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: It was all the way up to it. I mean,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: that's when it happened was the April fight, which was
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: the Esteban fight.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Wow. So.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very difficult to avoid everything. There's a lot
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: of different things that won't even seem like a detrimental position.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you got grappling, which can tweak all sorts
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: of different parts of the body. A simple cut from
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: striking can happen very easily. So for sure, it's much
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: more abundant in the MMA world because there are more weapons.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of variations of things to watch out for.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: But that being said, I like to carry... Like I said,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: this is a smart man's game. I like to carry
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: a level of business-wise and smart-wise to this. So though
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: the exact functions may differ, it's the mindset that I
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: like to carry from it.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, what you said is perfect, that it's a
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: long business. Boxing's been around for a long time. And
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: the really elite trainers, the really elite coaches, they know
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: how to prepare their fighters. And they know what fights
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: to take and when to take them. Right. And unfortunately
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: with the UFC, like sometimes you get a call like
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: the Malcolm Wellmaker fight, you know, and you're like, oh shit,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: it would have been nice to get two months to
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: prepare for Malcolm, but I have two days.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: And I just fought, fuck it, roll the dice. And
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: you also were coming out of nowhere. And I don't
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people had time to prepare for
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: you because as good as you are, when you fought Wellmaker,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: when you fought, uh, How do you say his name? Estevan.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: What is his?
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Rafael Estevan.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Rafael Estevan. He was also undefeated and super skillful. He
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: was a really good fighter and still is. But to
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: have those two performances in a row, the way you looked,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: you looked like a guy like if you were 20
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: years ago, you would have been a fucking alien. Like
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: no one had seen anybody like you before. That's how
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: much this sport has grown just in 20 years. You
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: go back to like Ultimate Fighter Season 1. There was
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: fucking nobody like you. Nobody like you back then. Right.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: You know, it really wasn't until Anderson burst onto the
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: scene shortly after that that we really got to see
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: that kind of elite level striking.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Talk about an alien for that time.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: That was Anderson Silva. That's one of the top to
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: ever do it. There's no question.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. People forget because maybe they see his
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: later fights in his career. But you go back and
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: watch him when he was in his prime. I remember
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: when he fought Chris Lieben. And Chris Lieben is a
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: murderous puncher. Like one of the hardest punchers that's ever
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: fought in the UFC. He's one of those guys that's
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: got that fucking God-given crack.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: And he's just such a warrior. I mean, wades into
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: the storm, you know. But that style is tailor-made for him.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: And when I was looking at the odds, a friend
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: of mine was there. I go, bet the house on
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: the Brazilian. I go, bet the house on the Brazilian.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I go, listen to me. This is a motherfucker, dude.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Just wait. Because that's when he really came into his
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: own over in cage rage. That's when he really became
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Anderson Silva.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: That was a yellow cage? Was that a cage rage? Yes.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: That's when he did that.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: The elbow? The crazy elbow? Yeah. Tony Fricklin?
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What was the... It was like a crescent up kick.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Was that pride or was that the cage rage? He
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: was on the bottom and he whipped his leg over
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: the top. It wasn't like a straight up kick. He
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: kind of like brought it over.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I don't remember that one.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't recall either.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Who was he fighting?
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not good at names always.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: So in Pride, it was, who was he fighting here, Jamie?
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Japanese gentleman. Yushin Okami. Oh, Yushin Okami. This was Rumble
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: on the Rock. This was BJ Penn's promotion. Look at that.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah, he's just doing things that like.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Nobody had ever thought of at that time. He gets
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: that right leg loose, ties his hands up, ba-bow. That's crazy.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: And Okami was a beast. And they fought again in
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: the UFC later, and he KO'd Okami.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, stuff like that, the elbow you're talking about.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Just a pioneer for it. It's not like he's watching film.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: He's not sitting on YouTube watching. People do these things prior.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: He's the one that's coming up with it.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the crazy elbow. You know the funny
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: story about this elbow? He was training that, and his
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: coach told him, stop doing that. You're not going to
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: do that. And so he made his wife hold pillows
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: at home, and he was practicing it at home. He
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: was having her hold a pillow, and he was just
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: working on the mechanics of that elbow. It's like he
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: wanted to prove his coach wrong. Right. And he wanted
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: to get the knockout with that technique.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: And lo and behold, he did it.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Well, he had some great fights over there. Particularly the
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Lee Murray fight. Did you ever see that fight? Probably.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: You know who Lee Murray is, right?
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: He's the British dude that became a bank robber. Was
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: the bank robber, correct.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Biggest heist in UK history. Yeah. Yeah.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: And that was a bad dude, too.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, he was a bad motherfucker.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: At the time, everybody was scared of that dude.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Well, that guy could crack. He was another guy who
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: had crazy power. Yeah. And just a vicious dude. Just
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: an absolutely vicious guy.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: That's the thing.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: He was a legitimate criminal. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: He had that whole aura and persona to him.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a real gangster.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that brings a little bit more of this, I
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: don't want to say fear, but who's this guy?
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: The fucking guy was an elite fighter, and he was
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: also an elite criminal. Right.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's multi-talented.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's something in a movie. Like a guy
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: who's a top-tier criminal who also competes and wins in
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: the UFC.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: And won by triangle. He beat Jorge Rivera by triangle. Yeah.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: And it's crazy.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: And you have Anderson come in and just demolish this dude.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: He just wrecked him. And he wrecked him with technique,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: and a lot of it was leg kicks. Yeah. Anderson's
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Muay Thai was at such a different level. It was
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: so artistic. Yeah.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: I think that's the perfect word to describe that, was artistic,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: because it's just beautiful. The way he set things up.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, he made elite guys look very brand new
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: in the cage. Mm-hmm. I didn't see very many close
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: fights with him until later in his career.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a later in his career thing. And I
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: always say that with fighters, you really have to look
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: at them when they were at their highest RPM, whatever. Generally,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: it's only a few years. But that few years, like,
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: judge them by that. Judge them by those performances when
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: they were just on fire. And I tell people you
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: have to always go back and watch those Anderson fights.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: When he front kicked Vitor in the face. Right. First
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: time anybody had ever won by knockout with a front
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: kick to the face in the UFC. Now people do
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: it all the time. Right. But I didn't even think
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: that was a good option. Like, there's a video of— and
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I grew up kicking. There's a video of me and
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Eddie Bravo. We're working with one of those Bob dummies.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: And he's like, what do you think about a front
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: kick to the face? I'm like, eh, it's better to
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: the body. I mean, you could land it to the face, but,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't really see very many guys do it.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: It's much more— Wrong. It's perfect.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Just watch the Anderson Silva fight.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: And everybody does it now. So many guys get knockouts
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: with a front kick to the face because you don't
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: see it coming when it comes straight up the middle.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: If everything's coming around, then all of a sudden something
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: comes straight up the middle and catches the bottom of
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: your chin.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: For sure. I like that side. to the body, to
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: the liver, throwing that heel on the liver. I think
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: that's more of a natural motion, but I have been
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: working with the front kicks. I like them a lot. Uh,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: especially with that, with the weight on the back leg
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit. And especially with these calf kicks, people
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: are really trying to bear down and throw the calf
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: kick hard. That's, that's, uh, What was going to be
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: my technique in my last one was when that calf
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: kick comes off the very beginning because that's what a
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: footer does. He comes out, he looks for his distance,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: and he bases down, and he throws that calf kick
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: almost every single time against every opponent. And I was like,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: you know, especially because I was planning on going there one-handed,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm just going to pull this
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: front leg up, front kick to the face, and it's
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: going to land. It's going to be beautiful. But, yeah,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: I started to work that. Like, you put all that
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: weight on that back leg. This one comes up fast.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: And the one I like better, especially with the boxing
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: as I come down here, is kind of getting that
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: lean forward and you're stepping back. And then when people
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: think your face is in range forward, you just pull
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: back and throw that one straight up the middle.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: And you're talking about off the front leg?
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: On the back leg on the second one. You're kind
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: of basing on here and you're stepping back onto the
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: back leg. And when they open up like they're going
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: to throw something.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: You lean back and throw it up the middle.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're changing the distance there. People don't expect it.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: For the calf kick, you're just light on the front
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: leg and you're throwing it off the front leg. Are
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: you sliding forward? Are you just picking it up and stabbing?
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I just pick it up and stab it because they've
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: got to close a little bit of distance to get
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: that calf. That one's, you know, the kick is a
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: longer range, but that one you have to come a
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: little bit closer for me to throw it appropriately. Some
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: people smack it with the foot or whatever it is.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I don't like that. I like that Dutch style, almost
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: like a soccer kick. just you're raising it straight up,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: and that shin bone is touching that soft calf. And
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: so to do it that way, I get a little
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: bit closer distance, but then that's where, you know, you
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: set it up and all the other stuff. It would
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: be a little safer doing it that way.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the calf kick is interesting because a lot of
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: guys are kind of just going straight up.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: You know, like you ever see Yuki Yoza fight?
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: He's one of my favorite guys to watch fight.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: That's probably like the perfect example of throwing a very
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: deliberate and– Technical calf kick is how he does it.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: He destroys people's legs, destroys them, and he's kicking up.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: He's kicking up all the time, and there's no pivot,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: and it's so fast. It's so fast, and there's no tell,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: and he's throwing it in every combination. So he's hitting
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: you with a jab. He's inside low kicking you. The
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: left hook, he's outside low kicking you.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just smacking you from all the different levels.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Constantly. And taking out your base every time. Every time
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: you're close enough, he's taking out your base. Every time.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Every time. From all angles. I love watching this guy fight.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: He does that cool thing, too. Like what he just did.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Check out that. Watch it. They gave him trouble for
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: that because you're not supposed to do that in kickboxing.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: See how he does that? He hooks the guy's leg. Yeah.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: So he throws like a half-speed kick. Back it up
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: again so you can see that. He throws like a
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: half-speed kick, holds it, and then trips him.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: My dad was actually just talking about that one with me.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: That's a very clean technique.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: But he is such a wild guy to watch because
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: of the damage that he does to guys' legs. So
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: this is what I love about the artistic aspect of
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: it and the technical aspect when people figure out, okay,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: what do you do when you're fighting a guy like this? Well,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Haggerty figured it out. It's constant switch stances, constant
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: knees to the body, moving, jabbing, constant movement. You never
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: let him get set up for those. And he took
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of leg kicks in that, but he landed
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: way more than he took, and he won the decision
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: against Yoso. It was a big win. But it was
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: also like a blueprint. Like if people got to see
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: that fight, they see it. So you can find that fight,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Haggerty and Yuki Yoso.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: He did a really good job of picking that front
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: leg up. And that's going back to MMA is something
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: that it's still developing, but I don't see a lot
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: of guys– defend the calf kick i see a lot
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: of guys willingly eat them yes and it's like you
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: do that with the shin guards on you could probably
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: spar all day and take calf kicks you know sort
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: of if they're landing clean like really clean yeah you're
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: gonna feel it yeah but for the most part you
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: pick the leg up you pull it back a little
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: bit it doesn't land super flush you could take it
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: with shin guards on you take You take one good
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: one with no shin guards on, it's a completely different game.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: It takes, you know, you're that leg away from you.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by superpower. Your doctor
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: spends eight minutes with you and your insurance decides what
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• 53:50
  Speaker 2: blood testing companies is what comes next. They connect your
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: blood work with real-time wearable data Yeah, so look how
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: Jonathan is never stationary, constantly switching stances. Look, I mean
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: literally constantly and constant movement. And then when you're thinking
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: about the legs, the jab, the step forward knee, everything
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: is constant movement. There's never a chance for Yosa to
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: set up and nice spinning back kicks to the body there.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: That was so close too. I know. He's wicked, man.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: This dude's wicked. But Haggerty figured him out, man. Look
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: at that. Outside low kick on a hop. I mean
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: in constant stance switches and that switch knee to the body. Look,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Yosa's looking for those, man. You can only take so
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: many of them from this guy, too. He's got fucking
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: stones for shins.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got no nerve endings on anything below the knees.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: It's really incredible, man. Watching this fight is a real
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: master class in striking. And this is one thing that
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: I always give credit to one for. I think one
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: has the absolute best strikers when it comes to just
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: pure striking. And the exciting guys that they have over there, incredible.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Azadullah Imam Ghazaliyev, have you seen that guy fight? Yeah.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: He's my favorite. I fucking love watching that guy fight.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: It's like, Jesus Christ, he's good. And one of the
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: guys that he trains with just fought in the PFL, Megamedov.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Did you see that fight? No. I forget how to
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: say his name. It's like, I think it's Abu or,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: I forget his name. But he put on a master
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: class in striking. And he looked just like Azadullah Imam Ghazaliyev,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: like the way he was fighting, like that style. Long, tall...
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Striker and these Dagestan guys man that you got Dagestan's
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: got the elite Muay Thai too. That's it's crazy. Yeah,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: that's the dude Amru Amru Magomedov. Well speaking of that
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: show me a little bit of that because this cat
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: he fights just like Asadullah like very similar and I
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: know they're from the same place you talk about artistic.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: That's like this is a beat. Yeah, sorry Paul is
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: another one.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, I Yeah, and he was kind of the first
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: of those guys that you go, oh, I think of
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: these guys as wrestlers.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: But look at this guy. He's throwing 360 roundhouse kicks
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: and wheel kicks.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Well, he was doing like, I don't know, not kung fu,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: but one of those practices before he was ever wrestling. Yes.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like sanshu or something. But you watch
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: this cat fight. He fights just like Azadullah. He's got
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: that long reach, slick striking, wicked kicks. He throws a
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: lot of high kicks. And that dude Alvarez that he's
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: fighting was tough as shit, dude, because he took a
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: lot before he finally wilted.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: You could see he was hurting from the leg kicks
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: already before that.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: He's getting destroyed. This cat's vicious.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Being a long guy like that is just so much
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: more beneficial. That's why everybody thinks he's all these big
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: muscle heads like the— OG UFC, that's the fighter build.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: The guy on top of the world.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like it's the tall, long, like skinny guy
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: that can strike well. Like that's the perfect like MMA build.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they can strike you from six inches away
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: from where you can strike them. That's a crazy advantage.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's back to where it was with Ty on Thursday,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: whatever it was. And he's like, I want to say
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: he's at 78 inch reach. Wow. He's like, he didn't like.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: He's like, I have a 78 inch reach. He's like,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: so I can touch you guys from this and that,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: any southpaw and blah, blah, blah. But I'm like, well, yeah.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: That's like a light heavyweight reach.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, well, no, dude, both of those guys
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: have crazy long reach. It's ridiculous.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Real long arms, real long legs. Perfect for triangles, perfect
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: for any kind of darts, guillotines, anything, rear naked with
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: an arm in.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you fight southpaw like this. It's like,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: you can touch from a million miles away. That's what me,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: I'm the opposite. My whole style is all the way
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: out or all the way in. I got to get
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: in and get to work in there you know and
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: and there's something to be said about that too because
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: those two styles cancel each other out if you have
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: a long guy he's not going to fight as well
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: on the inside it's not saying that he can't especially
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: with the muay thai the way they clinch is actually
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: very efficient and and with the boxing stuff opening stuff
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: up and being able to get your your longer limbs
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: in there is is perfectly viable as well it's just
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: you got to play off of your of you know,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: your God-given talents and your assets. And so the shorter
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: guy is going to negate the long guy by getting inside.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: And if the long guy can maintain the distance and
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: keep him there, then he's going to win that.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's benefits to all body types. It's just knowing
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: what to do with that body type. Like, look, Mike
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Tyson is arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time. He's
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: in the conversation with Ali and Joe Lewis and... There's
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: a few guys that you could put into that category
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: as the greatest heavyweight of all time. And I think
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Mike Tyson certainly in his prime was right there. Lennox Lewis,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: you've got to put Lennox Lewis in that conversation. Even
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: prime time Larry Holmes, you got to put him in
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: that conversation.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: But Mike Tyson was five 11, you know, as a heavyweight,
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: that's crazy. And he was only like two 15, two
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: 20 in his prime, but that bombing and weaving and
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: constant movement, he would just overwhelm guys. You see the
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: tall guys putting their hands out. They just, they were
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: just dealing with this fucking Wolverine that was running towards them.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, and I had just seen something from him
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: or read a quote and he, He said, it wasn't
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: my physicality that was my greatest asset. It was my elusiveness.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: It was that I was so elusive that I could
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: get in and I could get to work, you know?
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Yes. And a.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Lot of people, unless you're like a real practitioner or,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: you know, a student of the sport, they don't see that.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: They just see, they just see the bombs coming and
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: they attribute that to, he's got punching power. He's this monster,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: but there's just so much more intricate, you know, it's
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: like you said about Anderson, like, This is an art form.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: It's a game of setting things up. It's a chess match.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Everybody looks at it like it's checkers, but there's so
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: many more moves that could be made and that need
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: to be made to be the best at this.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: And you really want to be appreciated by the people
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: that understand that. You don't want to be the guy
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: that gives in to the howls and the cheers of
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: the casuals. The real feeling, the good feeling that fighters
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: get is when someone is a true student of the game.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: who really understands what they– like, I love it when
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: you're doing this. I love that thing you do when
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: you do– that's what guys want to hear. They want
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: to hear, like, from their fellow fighters. Like, if, you
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: know– like, when an elite fighter goes up to another
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: elite fighter, it's like, bro, I fucking love what you're doing.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: You can see they're like, thank you. Like, it's like–
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: it hits different. It means more when you know that
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: a guy is really operating at a very high level. Right.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the rest of the people– I've never stepped
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: room into even a gym to spar or go a
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: couple rounds of grappling.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Oftentimes they don't know what they're seeing.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: They have no understanding.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they think when the guy's missing it's because he sucks.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: You know what is funny is that even I have
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: had that realization because growing up it was like me
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: and my pops watching UFC. To me, that was my thing.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: But I would always sit there and go, well, why
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't this guy do this? It's right there. Just do that.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: It's right there. It's like, dude, you're not standing in
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: a cage surrounded by thousands of people You don't have
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: the same fatigue. You don't know injuries you're going into
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: with it. You don't know what you practiced leading up
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: to it that you even have the capacity to think
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: about and to act on. It's like there's just so
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: many things. So, like, I watch stuff now, and I'm
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: so much better at that because I'm sitting there going,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: he could do that, but I don't know what he's seeing.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on in his mind. So, yeah,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: there's different levels to it.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's a very complex game.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: It really is. I wanted to ask you a question.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Do you think that it was a benefit for you
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: to lose your first two fights? Do you think there's
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: maybe something to that? Because we were talking about your
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: first two opponents in the UFC being undefeated until they
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: fought you. They had never experienced loss as a professional before.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: And then they get on this crazy big hype thing.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: And there's something about being undefeated as well, especially when
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: you're a guy like Wellmaker who's not just undefeated but
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: a knockout artist. People get really, really jazzed up and
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: excited about that. Do you think that maybe having that
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: bad feeling of loss earlier in your career maybe grounded
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: you more?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly. I went 6-0 undefeated as an amateur. But
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: I can tell you at that time, I was not
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: living a fighter's lifestyle to the fullest. At that time,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I would literally go to practice in the morning. And
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: then I had to go to work at night or whatever.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: But I was like, man, fighting is the best. You
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: just go wake up, practice once. You get to kick
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: it the whole rest of the day. You get to
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: go fight and make all this money and live your dream.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: That's all it takes. This is cool. And I went
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: in all these amateur scene fights, which that's what the
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: amateurs are for, for learning and getting your experience. But yeah,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: it really showed me that there was change that needed
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: to be made in what I did with fighting and
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: what I did outside of fighting and Outside of fighting
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: was arguably more important. There was a lot that I
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: needed to change. A lot that I needed to refocus on.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: And make right by. And it wasn't until I did
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: those things. That I saw this drastic change. It wasn't
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: until I erased all the negatives. And then filled it
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: with all the positives. That I'm able to be on
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: a 10 fight win streak. Doing what I'm doing now.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Because who knows. Maybe I would have changed that. But.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think it would have been as drastic if
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: I hadn't experienced those two losses the way I did.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: So before those two losses, your first two professional fights,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: were you kind of fucking off?
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What were you doing?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Just everything. I mean, drinking, partying, smoking, drinking, being a delinquent,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: being not the best partner.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Uh, how old were you back then?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, I came back from college in 2017. I, uh,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: tore my meniscus in a dual meet, and then my
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: coach was.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: Same knee?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: My right knee. Different knee. Coach was an asshole about it. Snap, crackle,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: popped all the way through the rest of the season.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: Coach was an.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Asshole about it? In what way? Like, you didn't want
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: to admit.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: He just ignored it, like, completely. He just pretty much
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: told me to suck it up.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, what a great coach. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: That's why I didn't go back. I mean, it was
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of things. I was in Bristol, Tennessee, so
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: it's like. There's not a whole lot to do out
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: there coming from SoCal. So that was a culture shock.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: I was on my own for the very first time.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, I got hurt. So then I started,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, everybody else is out there partying and stuff.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: I never partied. I grew up very religious. I was
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: very strict. All throughout high school, I didn't touch anything.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't look anything. I didn't want to partake in anything.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I just wrestled. My only drug was wrestling back then.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: That's all I did. And I had a lot of
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: success then. And it wasn't until I deviated from that
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: course And I started finding fun or enjoyment or maybe
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: just trying to fill time and numb some of the
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: things that I was thinking about or worrying about or
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: that wrestling thing. It might not have been the biggest
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: thing to people, but for me, that was my first
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: time experiencing where I had just placed eighth in the
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: California state. I was fifth at the national tournament. I
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: was just doing everything right. I had won the U.S.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: Open for my age division. And then I go to this,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: and I'm on my own for the first time, and
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: I have all this adversity, and it's just like, I
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: don't know. I just felt like, why is this happening
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: to me? I felt like I had been abandoned at
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: that point. And maybe other people would have recovered from
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: it better, but that was a first-time experience for me. But, yeah,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: I was barely 19 years old around that time. I
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: think I probably started fighting in the amateurs around 20.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: So I was relatively young.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: So that's when you started partying.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: As soon as I tore my meniscus, I finished out
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: the wrestling season. And then I remember even school slouched off.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I wasn't really caring about school too much. We had finals.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't really even try too hard. And then I went.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: I remember that day. As soon as the last final
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: was done, we all went to my buddy's house. And
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: that's the first time I ever got drunk, like ever.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: And it's not to say that those things are like
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: the end of the world if you're controlling them, but
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: I certainly wasn't, you know. I had like a lot
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: of compounding things being first time, and that carried over.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: It was like that all the way up until, yeah,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: it was after that second loss. I was probably still
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: not doing what I needed to be doing to be
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: a disciplined athlete, a respectable, just like, you know, good person.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: I wasn't, I wasn't being a good person. And, uh, yeah,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: there was, there was a lot of change, a lot
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: of growth. You know, I had a lot of people
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: guide me back into that. And as soon as I
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: made those changes, yeah, now, now I'm here, haven't been
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: able to live and experience it. Cause that's the best
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: teacher out of all of them. You know, you can
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: go and watch a YouTube video on how to do
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: something right. Like fix a car. Oh, I know exactly
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: where the alternator is. I know where this, this pump is.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: I know how this connects to this. Then the second
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: you open it up, it's like, okay, well, I didn't
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: know I needed this tool, and wow, this is way
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: harder to pull off. And it's the experience. It's the
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: hardship and experience that teaches you things. So 100%. If
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: I hadn't gone through that, who knows where I'd be
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: and what I'd be doing right now.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: When you hurt your knee in college, was that the
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: first time you'd ever done where you had an injury
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: where it completely compromised your ability to perform, where you realized, like, oh,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: my body's very vulnerable?
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: Um, so I, I had actually sprained my ankle. It was,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: it's called the OC duels. It's like the number one
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: and number two in Orange County face off. And, uh,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: I had tore up my ankle pretty good. That was
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: going into league and then CIF and all that stuff.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: And I had almost worried that I wouldn't be able
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: to wrestle, which is a big thing. Luckily I was
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: able to wrestle on that, but yes, I guess the
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: meniscus was probably the first time where it really took
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: me out of my game like that. And to me,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: it was more of a, I don't know if it
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: was a vulnerability of the body.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: Like I.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Had come to terms with that. I understood that. I
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe I thought there was a higher power
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: like protecting me. And at that moment, like I was
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: no longer protected and I had been abandoned. And that's
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: kind of what got to me, honestly, is I thought
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: like God had abandoned me essentially at that time.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: Really? You didn't think like maybe God, did you even
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: consider that it was a challenge?
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: I can look back on it and say with certainty
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: that is.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: You were young.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: I was young. And that's, that's why I said I
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: clouded my mind with a bunch of other things and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: instead of focused on it and thinking about it clearly,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: I just, just moved farther away from the issue. So
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: like at that time, that's what I thought. Now being
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: a mature man, having grown my relationship with God, having
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: read and studied and understanding that, like I said, that
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: those hardships are what build us, is that that's what
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: tests our faith and what really brings us closer to God.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Now I see that it wasn't as big as I
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: had made it, you know, but I learned and maybe
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: falling farther down the path taught me even more.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it does. I think failing is actually
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: a very good teacher. I really do. I think in
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: all aspects of your life. And especially when you're a
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: young person, you have this idea of who you are.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: Having that get knocked down where you have to rebuild
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: is very important. Because once you rebuild and you realize like, okay,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: now I know what I'm capable of. Now I know
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: that there's going to be ups and downs, but I
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: must maintain the path. Right. Did you have to get
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: your knee fixed? Did you have to do anything to it?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they did a scope on it. So they shaved
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: the part that was hanging away, which to me, I
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: wish I had never done. Yeah. Because that knee has
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: given me issues to today. Like any of this inversion,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: like a triangle choke with the right leg going over,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: that meniscus, it was my lateral meniscus outside. It rolls
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: over and it catches. So then I got to bring
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: my leg straight and pop it back into place. And
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: it's gotten better. I get through it quicker these days, but.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: They tell you to not even get that surgery now.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: Well, so that my, my second professional fight where I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: got ankle locked, I got, uh, I think it was
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: like an outside reap and I went to sit up to,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: to grab it. And he had the position locked in
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: my knee, just went like eight times in my ear
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: real bad. And it was in the same exact spot,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: that lateral meniscus, the outer, which, uh, I don't know what,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: what other ligament is on the outside there, but, uh,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: To me, it was like exactly where the meniscus on
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: the right leg had happened. But I grabbed up or
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: sat up. I grabbed his arms. I kept trying to
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: fight through it. And then he switched it over to
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: the heel hook on the other side. My ankle popped
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: twice as I rolled. And I finally tapped then. But
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: I didn't even get an MRI on that one. I
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: tried to. It took so long that I was doing
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: the knees over toes and strengthening. And I was starting
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: to move on it that by the time they're like, OK,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: we can get your MRI in a week. I'm like, dude,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: I'm already moving and exercising and doing stuff on this
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: like I was cool. But yeah, I never did anything
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: with that. And that knee's really never given me any issues.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: And then the one I got the scope on still
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: bothers me to today.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't recommend that anymore because they did a
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: study of people that have had meniscus surgery versus not
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: having meniscus surgery and just rehabilitation. And it shows that
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: rehabilitation seems to be the better path. Yeah. I mean,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: especially for like, I have one that's been scoped and
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: it bothers me all the time. That's the one I
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: got shot up today. It always bothers me. It's like
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: there's missing padding. On one side of it, it's missing.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: But I had a bucket handle tear, and in jiu-jitsu,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: it would lock, and my leg would be stiff, and
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: I had to push it back into place. It was excruciating.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: It was like stuck, locked out?
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It would go back eventually, but sometimes it would
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: take a day before, and it would swell up. But
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: if I knew... First of all, this was a long
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: time ago. Unfortunately, there was no stem cells available back then.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: I would have 100% just done stem cells, and now
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: I would have done the knees over toes stuff and
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of cycling, like stationary bike cycling at not
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: high resistance. It's a fairly low resistance. It's just repetitive motion.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: It's really good for getting the blood flow to the
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: knees and really good for strengthening up the tendons and
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: the ligaments and everything, but without load. It's just You
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: do it at, like, a very low resistance and just
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: for a long time.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: And that's really good for your knees. Sweet.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's so many things. Like, I think even, like,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: leg extensions would probably be, like, a good little exercise
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: for the knees. I mean, it's a pretty deliberate spot.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, like, backpacking, I think, like, a
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: controlled version of that because there's a lot of times,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: you know, you're dropping down, like, pretty heavily, this and that,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: which is probably not the best impact on the knee. Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: But if you were doing it, like, cause that's kind
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: of the knees over toes is he's doing some similar motions.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: If you had some, maybe not as much weight, some
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: weight on your back, you could slowly kind of find
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: that and then have a soft landing. Like, I don't know.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: I was backpacking recently and I was just thinking about this.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, like in a controlled setting, like in a gym,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: like on a machine that I'm like, maybe not as
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: much as like a steep incline or decline, like something
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: like that would be really good. And then the range
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: of motion stuff is I've had, you know, with, with
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: my injury and stuff and time to step away, I've
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: had like a lot of, opportunity to think. And I
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: feel like I've, I've grown tremendously and it's like, yeah,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: all the little tiny things like the knees, like they're fine.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: Like I do it. I really don't have an issue
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: too much. Like maybe if I get into that position,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: it'll do it. But it's like, you know, what happens
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: when I do get into like a position, let's say
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: a leg lock position, for example, or like a straight
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: knee bar. And you know, what if my, my flexibility
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: is an issue there, or just simply like a wizard
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: position where the knees getting popped up, like Just any.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: There's a million and one positions that the knees could
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: be compromised there. So, yeah, it's going back, doing a
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: lot of range of motion stuff, a lot of strengthening
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: on the knees.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: Do you do Poliquin step downs? Do you know those? No.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: Charles Poliquin, seeing you find Poliquin, it's very simple. You're
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: essentially doing it, either you're doing it from an incline
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: board with, like, a little bit of elevation, or you're
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: just doing it from a straight-up step. And what you're
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: doing is you're just lowering yourself down. So one foot
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: is above on the step and the other foot, you're
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: lowering like that, like there. There you go. He's doing
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: it on plates. Very simple. Very simple, right? I mean,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: you're literally only going like 10 inches, but you're going
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: up and down like that. And it's just controlling the
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: body weight like that. Phenomenal for knee strengthening and for
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: knee stability. It's excellent. It's one of the best exercises. Sweet.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: Are you doing backwards pulls with, like, either a sled
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: or on a treadmill? Do you walk backwards doing that?
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing, like, really any exercises, weight, and, like,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do little things, but for strength and
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: conditioning after boxing, but I stay away from the weights.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: But it's not even for the weights. I'm talking, I mean,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: you do it on a treadmill. Okay. You do it
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: on a treadmill, just basically keep the treadmill off, and
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: just with your own resistance, you step backwards. Okay. So
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: you put your back to the screen and hold on
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: to the bars, and you're basically just pushing with your
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: legs going backwards. And it's really good for strengthening your
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: knees and also for blood flow. That's a knees over
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: toes guy thing. His page is phenomenal.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: I'll go to the 24-hour fitness and burn out their treadmill.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. You can do that, or you could use
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: a sled. We do it with a sled here.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: You put the sled, you put like a waist strap,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: and you just back up and pull the sled. It
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to be a lot of weight. It's not
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: a weight thing. It's really just a circulation thing and
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: a strengthening thing.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: He has another one that you get the band around
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: your back, and then you're kind of– I forgot how
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: he did it. You're essentially like leaned over and then
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: straightening the leg. You're like in a lunge, I guess, actually.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: You're in a lunge.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: The knee goes over the toes. You have the resistance
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: on the back, and then you're pushing and essentially doing
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: the same thing as probably walking back with the sled.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: The band is attached in the front or behind you?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: It's attached in the front. Oh, I see.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: So your resistance is pulling you forward.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: And you're lunged over the knee, the knee over the toe,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: and then you're extending that leg, and it's just hitting
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: that knee perfectly. It's very similar to the one you're
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: talking about, I'm sure.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because so much time you spend pushing forward, and
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: not a lot of people spend much time pushing backwards.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: But pushing backwards is really important. Right. It's really important
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: to just overall knee strength. Right.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: I think the side-to-side stuff, too, is, like, I was
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: almost like, let me get in the sand. And I
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: do a lot of, like, working out in the sand
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: just for the boxing, for the footwork and being able
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: to stay in a stance. But, like, that little, like,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: side explosion stuff would probably start strengthening those muscles on
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: the side and the ligaments going that way. And then
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think, like, you know, how do you
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: get that– I mean, you could get a band and probably, like,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: do kind of, like, a lateral extension or pull it
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: up into your, like, an inward extension.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: You know who used to do a lot of weird
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: shit with bands? BJ Penn. Oh, yeah. He did a
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: lot of weird shit in his prime. Yeah. With, like,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: flexibility stuff and developing strength from weird positions with bands. Yeah.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: I see, I don't know if BJ was a part
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: of that program, but, like, the Rafael dos Anjos, all
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: the fascia kind of stuff. Mm-hmm.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Rafael Dos Anjos was training with Nick Curzon.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Nick Curzon was a student of Marv Marinovich. And Marv
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: Marinovich is the guy who trained BJ when he was
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: in his prime, when he really got super serious about cardio.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: But it's a very controversial approach. The Marinovich's approach was
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: you already know how to fight, so forget about fight training.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: We're just going to give you the most fucking insane
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: gas tank you've ever had, and that way you'll be
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: able to execute everything you want. And so the primary
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: focus was just plyometrics and their conditioning program. And it
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: was hell.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: And BJ did not like going through it. But when
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: he went through it, he was like unstoppable because he
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: just never gassed. Right. And that's the interesting thing. about
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: conditioning in general is we have these ideas of what
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: the threshold is, like what a human body is capable
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: of doing for five minutes, for three rounds or five rounds,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: like in terms of what kind of pace that you
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: could put up. And then you have certain guys that
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: come along that sort of redefine what the threshold is,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: like Merab. Rob comes along, and here you got some
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: guy whose gas tank is fucking superhuman, and he makes
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: the best fighters in the world just wilt under this
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: constant pressure being taken down. And his strength and his
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: skill as a wrestler is just this constant attack, constant, constant, constant, constant.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: And you wonder, like, okay, how long did it take
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: to build up that reserve? How long did it take
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: to build up that gas tank? That's not something you
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: can achieve in just one camp.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: Like, that's something that takes literally years to develop.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. That's why, I mean, like I said,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: going back to wrestling, my, what I would say my superpower,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: my most utilized skill set was my cardio, my gas tank,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: you know? And I don't know, what is it, anabolic
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: versus anaerobic? Like, the striking versus the grappling cardio?
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said about that wrestling cardio. Like,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: Just that strict, you're just grinding it out 24-7. You're
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: always colliding. Your muscles are always tensed up. I think
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: there's something to be said about that. That if you
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: had great wrestling cardio, you could do almost anything in
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: the world.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: It builds up a foundation that's kind of unstoppable. Right.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: If you can maintain that kind of work ethic. Right.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: That's the other thing about it. It's the mental toughness
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: that comes from wrestling. Right. When a guy has an
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: elite wrestling background and he enters into the UFC, I
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: always say, They have an advantage. They have an advantage
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: over everybody else because whether or not you choose to
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: put yourself or you get coached by someone who puts
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: you through hell in camp, with wrestling you don't have
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: a choice. Everyone's going through hell. There's no easy path
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: to get on a fucking wrestling team anywhere in the country.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: You have to wrestle for your position.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: It's literal.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: You've got to battle for that spot. And then the
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: practice is once or twice a day of just purely
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: grinding it out. Staying in a wrestling stance alone is,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: extremely tough to do now you're doing it at elevated
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: pace now you're doing it with something snapping on your
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: head now you're just like and then you go and
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: you do live wrestling and then finish it up with
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: sprints yeah to me to me there's nothing that beats
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: that like and and i think the the style of
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: it is like go go go like even jujitsu you're
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: finding places to rest you know you can throw on
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: in the guard and and you can you can rest
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: in certain entanglements striking is all about being able to
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: have an explosive motion and then find your way to,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: to be defensive, to slow down what they're doing. You're either,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: you're getting in stuff in it. You're at a distance
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: where you can be a little bit relaxed because they
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: can't reach you. Or, you know, you're, you're moving off,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: making the miss where there's no resistance there. You know,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: I just, with wrestling, you don't have any of that. There's,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: there's no chance for a break, especially if you've got
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: someone like Rob, who's just on you 24 seven. And
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: so to me, that's, you know, back to the cardio
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: thing we talked about earlier. I don't know. I, I
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: think if you've got elite wrestling cardio, then you could
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: do all the rest of it. You'd be able to strike.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: You'd be able to do the jiu-jitsu entanglements. You can
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: hang for that duration of time with great cardio.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: It's also if you can figure out how to be
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: a great wrestler, you can kind of figure out anything.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: It's just a matter of taking that same focus that
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: turned you into a great wrestler and applying it to
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: whatever it is, MMA, whatever else you're trying to do.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: If you're willing to go through what it took to
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: become a great wrestler... That's an extraordinary human. Very few
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: people ever reach a very high level of wrestling. It's
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: just too fucking hard. And it's the best foundation for
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: combat sports, for sure, for MMA. Because if you can
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: take a guy down and he can't take you down,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: that's a massive advantage. Massive. You dictate where the fight
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: takes place. And if you develop elite striking on top
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: of that, it's a perfect combination.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. I mean, anybody asking me personally, I
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: would say get a wrestling background. Get some boxing. You
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: can figure out the rest of it. You can figure
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: out how to check kicks, block kicks. You can do
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: the rest of it. But if you have those two
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: fundamental core bases, yeah, you're pretty good against most people.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: I would say that too, but I would say another
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: thing is, and this is very controversial. If I was
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: teaching a young kid, I would say get into point karate.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: Learn point karate. Because if you could learn how to
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: move the way those guys move, The things that those guys,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: when you see like Michael Venom Page just stump people,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: they're just stumped. Like, I don't have any, like Kevin Holland,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: who is, fights everybody. He's fucking competitive with everybody he fights.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: With MVP, he was just stumped. Like, what am I
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: going to, what the fuck am I doing? I can't
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: even touch this guy.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: That is a giant skill set. And I always said
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: before MVP came onto the scene, I'm like, one of
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: these guys, one of these really elite point fighter guys
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: is going to come in and start fucking everybody up
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: because you can't hit them. Yeah.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that goes back like him and like wonder
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: boy are both the prime examples of a karate style individual.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Um, and they're really long, so, you know, they can
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: utilize that a little bit to their advantage with that,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: that lungy in and out. But to be honest, yeah,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: that's something that like I've wanted to delve into a
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: little bit more with myself. Cause I like, I can
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: throw kicks really well. Honestly, I have, I have good flexibility.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: I have the ability to throw them with speed, with power. Um,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: But having something like that where you can throw it
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: nice and fast and snappy, those little sidekicks, and the
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: way that they throw the kicks is great.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, the only other relation I would have to
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: that is the Savat style. I like the way the
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: Savat style guys throw their kicks.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not very familiar with Savat.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: The only thing that I don't utilize myself is a
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: lot of the toe stuff because I'm not wearing shoes.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, like toe kicks to the body?
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: They're, like, stabbing you with their toes.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Like, everything. Like, they're even kicking, like, your leg.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, Yosa does that. He stabs guys in
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: the body with his toes.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: It's like the ball of his foot, right?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: Well, he's going in with the toes, man. There's a
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: lot of slow-mo videos of him stabbing guys in the
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: liver with his fucking toes.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: You know who else is really good?
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: They're conditioning their toes.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's the thing is you better have some.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: You probably have multiple breaks on each toe leading up
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, 100%. That's why we were talking about
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: the front kick. To the body is good if you
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: do it like a traditional Muay Thai where you're going
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: up and out. Which is fantastic. You can produce a
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: lot of speed and power. But I think everybody does
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: this kind of shovel up toes into the body kick
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: nowadays in the MMA world. That's what I see more so.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, Conor utilized the heck out of that. Most
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: guys bring the toes up. And you better be very
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: precise with that because all it takes is one elbow
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: blocking down.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: And your toes out. Did you see Rodriguez's toes after
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: he fought Fluffy? Yeah. Did you see that picture? Jim,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: pull that picture up. It's off Gregory Rodriguez, his Instagram page.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: After he beat Fluffy, he showed a photo. You haven't
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: seen it?
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, actually.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're going to cringe.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: It's hell. Is it like a John Jones break?
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: Worse. The bones aren't sticking out, but it's hellacious. You
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: look at what happened to his toes.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Dude, that one, like, that takes it out of you.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: You start smashing your toes like that, and you've got
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: to continue fighting.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: Or you've got to continue in a fight camp with, like,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: broken toes.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: That's one of my wrestling camps. I was chasing my
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: brother in the front yard the day before, and his
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: heel came back, and my pinky toe was like this,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: straight sideways. Went to the family doctor. Oh, yeah. I
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: have a picture just like that, actually, with my fingers,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: my toes thrown west side.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, look at that. Jesus.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: Ow!
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's terrible.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Those feet have seen some elbows, son. Right?
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: It's got a big old bunion and everything on there.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's... And he won. He did it in really
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: good fashion, too.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a guy that's just, I don't understand how
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: he makes 185. Right. I don't understand it. Whenever I
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: interview him, I'm like, you're 220 pounds, sir. Yeah. You're
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: at least 220 and shredded. I know.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like I guess the bigger guys have
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit more to lose. They probably float a
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: They definitely do. With all that muscle, you have water
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: to lose for sure. Right.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: If you're shredded, I mean, that's one thing to be said.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: But especially, like, heavyweights, like the Alex Paredes, I'm sure
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: he gets a little bit looser, goes up to 220.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: But that's still 40 pounds. I mean, that's a lot
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: of weight.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of weight to lose.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: But I don't know. I mean, look at Aljo cutting
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: to 135. Yeah. He's, like, 175 pounds.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: But he doesn't do it anymore, and he feels way
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: better at 45. For sure.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: And he had to move up because of that. I
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: think a lot of the bantamweights get up to relatively
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: that weight. I think everybody– I think that's why I've
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: started seeing people try to comment the whole weight bully thing.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: They've said it to me on Instagram, this and that.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: They saw one of my training pictures where I was
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: a little loose, and they're like– the funniest comment was
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: someone was like, hire a nutritionist ASAP. Yeah. And I
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: was just cracking up at that. Like, these guys are
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: roasting me. But, yeah, I think everybody cuts relatively the
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: same amount of weight.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: How big do you get? Like, what's the heaviest you
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: get in between?
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: 135.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: No. That's what you weigh, son. What do you weigh
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: when you're thickening up? What's the heaviest you've ever been?
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: Like 175 is probably give or take. Maybe like 178
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: if I'm just full of food, eating and being a delinquent. But, yeah,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: I get up there pretty big.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: But when you're in camp, like the week before, what
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: do you like to be at?
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: I've had all my cuts right around 150. I don't
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: really get much lower than that.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: That's not too bad.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: It's not the end of the world. I mean, 149, 148.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: 145 would be beautiful. If I could just do 10,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: it would be no problem. But this last time we
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: did 11 in one night, and it was smooth sailing.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: That's another thing. You experience it more, you get better
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: and better at it. And I've gotten wiser that the
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: sauna doesn't have to be a million and ten degrees.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: The USC portable saunas, I think I maxed out at 150,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: it said. And I could sit in that for 22,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: 25 minutes.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: Is that a red light sauna? No. The portable ones
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: probably is, right?
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: Probably is. I don't recall, but I'm sure it is.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: But that with the emergency blankets and then cooling off
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: in between, that's something that I had to get wiser
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: to as well. Because everybody tries to tell you you're
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: already there, you're already sweating. Don't lose the heat. And
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: it's like, no, dude, this isn't a sprint. This is
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: a marathon. We're taking this nice and easy. So this
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: last time I was taking all my gear off, putting
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: ice on the body, cooling the body temperature back down,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: which is– arguably the most important aspect of the whole
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: weight cut is the body temperature versus the dehydration because
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: the body gets dehydrated and it has more of a
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: capacity to deal with that than it does to overheat
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: if you overheat you're done for like that's it is.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: What it is so is the overheating does that drain
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: you more in terms of like your ability to recover
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: for the next day like so when you're cutting weight
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: if you're doing it like 180 or something like that
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: something high and is it that like because it does
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: wear you out obviously like If I do a sauna
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: session for 20 minutes when I get out, I'm tired. Yeah.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: So you've got to think if you're doing multiple ones
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: of those, if you're trying to make weight and then
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: you have to fight the next day, you went through
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: a lot physically.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: As opposed to what you're doing. If you got it
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: at 150, it's not that bad. It's just, just sucks
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: a little.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Cause I've done both like, and, and, and that's,
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: you're throwing a sauna suit on as well. You know,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: the sweet sweat, the sauna suit, and then you get
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: in that, that portable sauna. But it's like before I was,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: I was doing that with a pair of, of, I
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: don't know, like a spandex, you know, like top and
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: bottom and then a jacket and then sweats and then
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: a big jacket. And then I'm getting in the 180,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: 190 degree, 24 hour sauna and sitting there for 15 minutes.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: It's like, it's like, dude, yeah, I felt there's, there's
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: been weight cuts where I just feel like a, like
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: terrible atrocious. I look terrible, you know? And then I
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: have some of these more recent ones where I, I
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: lower the temperature down. I, I, Extend the duration of
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: how long the weight cut is itself. And there's a
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: major difference in it for sure.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: That's really good advice. Work smarter, not harder.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: You've trained for two months over just pushing your body
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: to the absolute limit. You're going to go fight somebody
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: for 15 minutes, possibly 25 minutes. There's all this hard
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: stuff already happening. That part should not be hard. It's
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: going to be hard, but you should make it as
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: easy as possible. That should be the mindset to it.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: Did you see the Moses Itama fight this weekend?
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: Do you know who he is, right? No. No? Okay. He,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: up until this fight, was probably the most promising prospect
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: in the heavyweight division in more than a decade. He
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: is a young guy. He's only 21 years old. And
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: people were talking about him being able to break Mike
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: Tyson's record of being the youngest ever heavyweight champion. So
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: he missed that mark. And then he finally got a
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: title fight this weekend. Looked phenomenal for the first few rounds.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: Yes. And he was fighting this big Croatian cat. I
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: forget his name.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: Filip Hergozovic. And he couldn't.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: Stunt on him at first.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. At the beginning, he was tuning this guy up.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's so fast and so elite. But. He
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: had never been into deep water before. Every one of
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: his fights, he'd be able to stop people. And he
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: hadn't had any like real good decision wins where he
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: fought a bit. And he's not the biggest heavyweight, but
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: he's wicked fast. I mean, just wicked fast and beautiful technique.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: But as the fight went on, he started to fade.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: And in the eighth, you could see him like really
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: slowing down and just really trying to take this dude out,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: but couldn't and thought he could. and was emptying the
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: gas tank instead of boxing him and just, uh, outpointing
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: him and being skillful. He just was inexperienced and he
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: emptied the gas tank. And then Philip came back, man.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: He finished him.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, he finished him in a weird way. It's
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: almost exhaustion. Yeah.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: He just stumbled over him.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: So at that point, cause they're both exhausted cause it
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: was a war. There's a nice right hand and he
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: stung them there.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: Well, did you see their little like table talk where
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: they're sitting across from each other? Yes. And, uh, He's
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: all like, it's not about, you know, like how many
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: times you can get hit or you can hit somebody.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: It's about how many times you can get hit and
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: keep coming forward.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: And then that Moises is like, that's the stupidest thing
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: I've ever heard. He's like, why would you base your
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: fighting style off? Like how many times you can get hit?
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: And then lo and behold, you know, like this comes across.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: That's why, you know, I talk about technicality and finesse
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: and skillset and it's a game of hit and don't
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: get hit. But dude, you could just have someone who's
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: just so tough and just so willing that, This is
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: a perfect scenario. That's why there are so many aspects
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: to this fight game.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: Well, it was really funny because he was basically quoting Rocky.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: He really did quote Rocky. It ain't about how hard
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit. Right.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: And keep moving forward.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: And he pulled a Rocky on him. He literally did
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: exactly what he said he was going to do. But
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: it's all these things. It's like youth. and hubris and
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: thinking you're the greatest of all time and looked like
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: the greatest of all time. Pull up a Moses Itama
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: highlight reel because if you look at his highlight reel,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: you're like, this guy is the second coming. This guy
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: is something really special, man. When you watch how he fights,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, his hand speed, his knockout power, and for
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: a young guy, this guy, I think he was 20,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: and you look at his highlight reel, you're like, oh,
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: my God, the sky's the limit for this kid. He's
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: just putting everybody out. But, you know, he wasn't really
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: being tested. You know, and then he finally, I think,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: was it Derek Chisora? Who did he fight before this fight?
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: He finally beat a top-level guy. And he took him out.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: And so, but, you know, it was a guy who's
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: a real veteran, been around a long time. And he
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: kind of thought that he could put it on everybody
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: and knock everybody out. But, you know, this is like
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: one of the things about any combat sport is you
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: have to know when to hit the gas, when not to,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: and you have to have those experiences of these long,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: grueling fights, and he really didn't have that yet. So
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: his first experience with a, yeah, Dillian White, that's who
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: it was. And his long, his first experience with a real, no,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: it was Chisora, I think, because I think it was
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: Dillian White first, and then Chisora was the next fight afterwards.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Am I right about that?
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: No, it's just his KOs on this video.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: What is it? Pull up his record. Who was his
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: last fight before Hergovich? But, I mean, I still think
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: he's got potential to be a world champion for sure.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, the kid's only 21 years old. Dillian White
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: right there. That's who it was. It wasn't Derek Chisora.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: It was Dillian White. And Jermaine Franklin was right after that.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: So every fight has been TKO, TKO, TKO, TKO, TKO.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you watch his fights, I mean, they're
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: fucking stunning performances. But wasn't really being tested in that
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: way with a really big, durable heavyweight who could take
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: a shot, who has a ton of experience. And, you know,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: now he's got his first loss, but he'll be back.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: He's only 21.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: Well, that's how they do it in boxing. They feed
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: these guys, build them up. And then when they're solidified,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: now you fight somebody who's substantial. I've done a lot
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: of comparisons, but that's, to me, where the MMA guys
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: are just more down to go and do their thing.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: They'll fight anybody at any given time pretty quick.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: Is that by decision, though, or is that by necessity?
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: Because the UFC, if they call you up and say, hey,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: in four weeks, do you want to fight for the
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: world title? I know you've never fought in the UFC before.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: In boxing, that's unheard of. That would never take place.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: But in the UFC, if you're a pretty good fighter
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: and you're doing well and you win a bunch of
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: championships in other organizations and all of a sudden this
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: opportunity arises, we've had guys with their first fight in
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: the UFC fight for the world title.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: That is true. I mean, that's what you get when
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: you have a melting pot of things, though, because those
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: guys are well-established in their own personal lives. careers in
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: maybe wrestling or kickboxing or whatever it is.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: Or rising yeah it's not like you're pulling out.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: Like the local kid telling him let's go fight for
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: a world title i mean.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: But they would put i'll pull out the local kid
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: and fight a guy who has 10 15 fights in
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: the ufc that does happen that happens.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: All the time well that's what i'm saying is like
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: i think that the boxers would be more hesitant to
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: take something like that, like you're saying. But the MMA
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: guys are always down to do that kind of stuff.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: Well, the boxers, though.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: It's a different culture, I suppose.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: It is, but it's also the fact that no one
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: gives a shit who the promoter is in boxing. If
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: someone's going to watch Gervonta Davis fight, they don't say, well,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: who's performing? Hold on. Is this for Bob Arum? Is
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: this for Golden Boy? No one cares. It's just who
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: are the fighters. With the UFC, it's a very different animal.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: So if you get a call for the UFC, like,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: oh my God, we're in the big leagues. And that's different.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: They have all sorts of different promotions and different people
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: you can fight for in boxing, but UFC is the pinnacle.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: If you get the call from the UFC, that's where
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: you want to go. There's a whole lot of differences
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: to it. I just think whatever it is that Yeah,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: the MMA guys are more willing to step in on
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: the short notice and put their careers at risk and
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: put their opportunities to continue fight streaks or whatever at
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: a risk. So that's how I see it. That's what
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: I picked up from those two different things.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely a different culture, right? It's a culture
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: of accepting those risks and also of probably people that
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: are just much more willing to take a chance, it seems. Yeah. Exactly.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: That's why I think that's us a little bit more
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: padded up to it.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: A little bit more wild to be fighting MMA anyway.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: It's a little bit more wild for sure, and that's
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit more of a business, I would say,
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: in my opinion.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: The boxing.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: The boxing is.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: We've got a lot of very smart people involved in
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: boxing that are managers and trainers that are like, really
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: working to build a guy and turn him into a prospect,
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: turn him into a contender, and then turn him into
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: a champion.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: And the UFC only have the one organization doing that. Exactly.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: And they're managing all the weight classes and all the prospects,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: and they're picking and choosing certain fights.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: Not only that, they schedule fights around cards. They don't
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: schedule cards around fights, right? So, like, say if Canelo
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: Alvarez is fighting someone, It is– whenever Canelo's ready to fight,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: that's when the card takes place. Yeah. Right? So Canelo
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: Alvarez wants to fight September 12th. Okay, great. September 12th,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: let's put together a fight card around Canelo Alvarez.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: With the UFC, it's like the UFC's coming to Salt
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: Lake City October 3rd. Who's there? Right. Who wants to fight? Right.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: We're going to have a fight. Who's going to be
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: on the fight? Who's going to be on the card?
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: And then you put the card together. So it's a
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: different animal. Yeah.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: No, they're different for sure. Yeah. I mean, I try
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: to draw wisdom from all aspects of everything. So– I'm
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: constantly delving into all the different realms myself.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: Do you, uh, read a lot? Are you a guy who,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: do you like read any things on, on psychology or
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: on warrior tactics? You ever get into like book of
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: five rings or any of that shit?
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: For sure. I'm reading, uh, it's called Haga Kari right now.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: And it's essentially, um, it's a, it's a single individual Yamamoto.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: It's like Tunisian or something. I forget his name exactly, but,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: he served for the reigning leader at the time. His
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: leader passed away. He wanted to commit seppuku because he
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: was of that warrior mentality, but his leader had commanded
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: that no one was allowed to do that. This and that,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: but he's taken a lot of storylines, inspirations from all
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: these samurai because it's going into a time period where
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: the samurai weren't a necessity anymore. And so... The ideology,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: the lifestyle, what it meant to live that Bushido lifestyle
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: had changed a little bit, and their purpose was different.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: And my boxing coach gave it to me, actually, when
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: I was kind of in this limbo state of, like,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: it's essentially saying, how should a warrior live outside of
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: the fight? You know, like, what does he need to
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: be doing on a daily basis? But then it's—I like
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: the real-life, like, storyline because now you're getting a bunch
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: of different perspectives from all these people that were samurai—
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: all were warriors who lived that who you know fought
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: in battle and now you get to see like a
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: lot of different things like someone says you should do
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: this and someone says no don't do that and to
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: me i like that because i get to kind of
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: delve through all the mindsets and then apply what works
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: best to me you know but uh i love i
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: love reading all that stuff i've not been so good
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: at staying off the phone and and you know i
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: watch a lot of youtube which is it's always fighting
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: or some kind of gun channel or hiking or camping
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: or hunting or spearfishing or something. But yeah, I'm trying
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: to get way better at that. I'm trying to stay
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: off the screens. I want to be more interactive with
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: the world around me, learning things constantly. And so picking
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: up a book and reading it is along that set
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: of goals that I have is continuously be doing that.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's benefits to a lot of stuff
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: on YouTube. I think YouTube is not social media, and
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: I think I learn a lot on YouTube. For me,
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: I like to wind down on YouTube, just watch some
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: ancient history thing or watch a professional pool match or
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: something like that. It's just a wind-down time. But it
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel like I'm wasting time, whereas if I'm looking
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: at Instagram or Twitter or whatever, it feels like I'm
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: doing something I shouldn't be doing that's not beneficial.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, 100%. To me, as I'm building up my platform
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: and whatnot, I understand it as a business. And so
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: I understand there's some necessity for me to be into it,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: producing content, not necessarily taking in content. But yeah, a
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: hundred percent. It's, it's something that has affected our culture
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: in a large way. It's all the, the, what's it called?
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: Like the short term, like media, you know, where you're
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: clicking through it. It's just, it's killing our attention spans. It's,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, your dopamine is, is firing
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: at all times going crazy.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: It's just, it robs your focus. Yeah.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: You're getting this, like, that's where, that's where I love
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: the YouTube, but I almost have to recognize that just
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: because I'm watching a spearfishing video doesn't mean I'm getting
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: in the water and going and spearfishing. Cause sometimes I
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: feel like I get my fix a little bit by
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: doing that, but then I have to remind myself, it's like, uh,
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: life is lived and your actions and, and, in your experiences.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: So sitting and watching the TV screen, somebody else experienced that,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: you know, you, you get the inside scoop. You get
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: to kind of be there under the water, watch what's
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: going on, but yeah, you're not actually living it. So
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: I like it. I love, I love to, to learn
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: from that social media.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: It's, it sucks. It's zapping everybody.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: And, uh, it's certainly not a part of the warrior
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: lifestyle as you were talking about.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. Cause then like, you want to think
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: about like your, your meditative aspects of like how often, uh,
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: Are you delving deep into your own brain and just
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: figuring out things about yourself and asking those questions and
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: pushing beyond? And when you've got a phone screen stealing
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: all your attention, how are you ever doing that? Right.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. You're not. You're not, you know, if you're
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: spending so much time doing that. You're a spearfisher guy, huh?
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: You really like spearfishing?
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: I like to spearfish. It's been some time since I've
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: been back in the water. I had a buddy that
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: we used to go all the time, and then he
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: moved up to Washington. And I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: Where are you guys spearfishing?
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: We go local. Like, there's a Corona Del Mar beach,
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: and then there's a smaller kind of hidden beach that
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: you walk down, and it's got plenty of structure and
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: all sorts of fish out there. Laguna's got the kelp forest.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: So I've just been going shore diving and going over there,
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: grabbing lobster when it's lobster season, grabbing down to the
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: honey holes and just grabbing them with our hands. So
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: it's all the shore stuff right now. I haven't been
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: off a boat.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: It's for... My friends that have been hunting, they say
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: they love it because they say it's like hunting underwater.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: It's not really like fishing. You call it spearfishing, but
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: it feels like you're hunting.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: It's, yeah, you're in the action, you know. You get
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: to pick and choose which fish you're going to take,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: which one to let go. And, yeah, you're also, I
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: like it because I like the primitive aspects. Like we
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: talked about like a little bit of bow hunting before.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: I'm really enthralled with the bow hunting stuff over the
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: rifle hunt because, dude, you can sit at like three, four.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: Sometimes guys are shooting about like a 500 yards with
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: this big old rifle and you're just smacking something. It's
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: like that thing didn't even like ever know you were there.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: You know, you're just like propped up and there's a
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: place for it, I suppose. But having a bow and
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: have to get up 30-ish yards, give or take, and
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: having to make sure they're not catching your scent and
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: having to perform the stock. I like the primitive stuff.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: I like something that involves a skill set instead of
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: just like a technological prowess.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: No, I agree with you, obviously. I'm a big bow hunter.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything wrong with rifle hunting, and
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: it's definitely the best way to acquire meat. If you're
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: just going on a meat hunt and you just want
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: to get your meat for the next few months, a
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: rifle is the way to go. But if you want
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: a real challenge, there's something that's way more special about
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: a bow hunt. It's more difficult. It requires more practice.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: It requires more of you. Like, I went on a
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: pig hunt about a year or so ago with a
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: friend of mine in California where we had had a
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: successful elk hunt, and then we went pig hunting. And
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: I hadn't shot a rifle in two years, a year
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: and a half, two years. Like, not one shot with
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: a rifle. Aced this pig at, like, 90 yards like
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: it was nothing. Boom, dropped him in his tracks. Like,
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: that was so easy. Right. I mean, all you have
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: to do is get the crosshairs on them. Don't flinch.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: Squeeze the trigger slowly. make sure you're in a good position,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: and know how to shoot a rifle. And once you
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: know how to shoot a rifle, I mean, I'm not
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: taking thousand yard shots, but you know how to shoot
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: a rifle, it's pretty easy. If I was bow hunting,
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't even imagine, if I hadn't shot a bow
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: in a year and a half, of even thinking about
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: shooting something with a bow. Not a chance in hell.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't even think about it for months. I would say,
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: I need to practice, I need to hit targets, all
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: the time, I need to make sure my shot is at,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: I need to get my technique down, I wanna film myself,
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: make sure I'm not doing anything stupid, like let me
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: look at my form, why is my elbow to the right,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: it should be above, I would never imagine. Rifle's way easier,
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: but the feeling of taking an animal down with a
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: bow is a completely different feeling. It's so much harder
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: to do, it's so much more exciting, and if you fail,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: it doesn't, you know, many a hunt where you, seven days,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: nothing happens, okay, That's just part of the thing. Right.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: But at least, you know, we're out here getting after
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: it and trying and you succeed or you fail, but
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: at least you're in nature and the experience of it
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: is still really fun, even if you're totally unsuccessful.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, that's why with the
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: spearfishing stuff, like these free divers that can hold their
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: breath up to four or five minutes, you know, and
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: they're diving 40, 50, 60, 70 feet. Some of these
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: guys out there in the middle of the blue water
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: and they're going down to shipwrecks or, whatever structure is
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: down there and they're shooting these big old fish it's
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: like yeah there's like there has to be a skill
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: set to that it's something you had to work for
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: to achieve you know yeah it's something you had to
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: build up to so yeah i i love all that
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: stuff i haven't been like bow hunt i haven't even
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: been rifle hunting it's something that i really want to
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: get into i like all that outdoor stuff.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: We can help you we can help you get into
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: that yeah definitely i'll connect you with.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: Some people i i love all that you know i
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: like to backpack i just did uh mount whitney last
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: year in august and uh i just love being out
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: there in nature so you know being able to engage
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: in it that way too is like you said the
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: excitement the the build-up the work you have to put
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: into it the knowledge you have to acquire the people
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: you have to bump into um.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: The meals are a lot different too when you eat
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: a meal that you prepared yourself that you went and
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: hunted it's just a completely different feeling oh for sure
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: and you're living in california now and california is a
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: giant pig population There's a lot of pig hunting to
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: be had in California pretty much all year round.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're invasive species. That's one that I'll get
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: in the helicopter with a rifle and just take those
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: guys out because I know they're just destroying animal habitat
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: and eating all the food and destroying the geography of
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: most places they are.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: Millions of them here in Texas, literally millions.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they breed like no other too. They just multiply.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: Three times a year they have litter sometimes, at least
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: twice a year. I have some friends of mine and I,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: we have a hunting lease out here. And as you're
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: walking through like the woods, you hear them. They sound
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: like demons. Yeah. You hear them like fighting with each
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: other in the bushes and shit. You're like, what the
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: fuck am I getting into?
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: They sound like monsters, man. And they're everywhere.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: Like you go to every one of these ranches out
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: here is infested with pigs.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just destroying.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: They have to hunt them. They bring in people to
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: hunt them. A friend of mine has a huge ranch
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: out near Fort Worth. And he brought in a bunch
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: of Navy SEALs to kill pigs. And they set it
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: up like an operation. They literally decided to use it
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: for training. Yeah. And so they, you know, and you
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: can blow them up with like thermite. You can do
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: all kinds of, not thermite. What's that shit that they use?
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: Tannerite.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: Tannerite. That's it. Thank you.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: I've seen that video.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, it's crazy. It's ridiculous. Yeah, but you can
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: basically do whatever you want to them because they're just
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: encouraging people. They're saying, listen, other than like declaring war
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: on the pigs and bringing in the military and literally
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: going to every state and trying to kill them, like
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: we've got an economic war where these pigs are destroying
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 2: people's crops. Right. I mean, literally billions of dollars worth
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: of damage every year they're doing to these farms.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: And they just keep, there's more of them every year,
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: more of them every year. They're not going to stop fucking.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: They're just going to keep reproducing. Just going to keep reproducing.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: And it's, you know, really been a few hundred years
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: since they've been introduced to this country. And boy, they're
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: in every state now. Yeah.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, and what are you going to do? Just
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: let them continue to roam?
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: They're in every state. Are they like New York state
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: and places like that? Do they have wild pigs? How
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: many states have a wild pig population? Let's put that
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: into perplexity and see what they say. Our AI sponsor.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to guess. Let me say 30. I say
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: 30 states have a wild pig population. That's my guess.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: 30 out of 50. Am I close? How many? 35.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: Figure first to states with documented feral swine presence. I
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: like that term. Feral swine presence. Does not necessarily mean
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: that every one of these states has a large self-sustaining population.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: 35 states... Population established numbers can be lower. Some states
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: only have occasional sightings, small localized groups. Well, it really
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: depends on where they have farms. States with farms have
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: the real problem. In the Southwest, especially Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: and South Carolina. Yeah.
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: Wild.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: It's such a crazy animal, too, because they're, you know,
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: they're so smart. They're so smart and they're very durable.
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: Right yeah some of them get gigantic like a thousand
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: pounds right i mean you seem.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: To really see i used to think that too those
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: are not really the wild pigs what those are is
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: domestic pigs that got loose and you know the thing
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: about domestic pigs when they get loose they kind of
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: become wild their their nose lengthens their their their fur
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: gets like thicker and bushier and their their talons or
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: their their tusks rather actually grow Which is nuts. Yeah.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: They actually metamorphosize.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what like a feral pig is, right? Mm-hmm.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: Was a domesticated animal that became wild.
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: The opposite. It was a wild animal that they took
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: and domesticated, but then when you let them loose in
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: the wild, then they become wild again. Oh, okay. That's
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: what's weird. It's like they originally were wild animals.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: It's such a crazy transformation. Yeah. All covering hair, big
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: tusks and stuff, and then like the pigs you see
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: in the farm.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: Same animal. Yeah. What's nuts is it happens quick. Apparently
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: the metamorphosis starts to take place. Look this up. See
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: how long it takes before pigs start transforming. I think
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: it's like six weeks or something crazy. Like it starts
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: to begin. Yeah. Or six weeks where they have to
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: feed themselves, where they have to forage for themselves. They're like,
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: all right, I guess I'm wild. Yeah. And then they
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: just start the transformation. It's a very weird animal. I
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: don't know of any other animal that will ask perplexity that.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there's any other animal that does that.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: Domestic pigs become feral and behavior within weeks to months
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: of escaping, becoming wary of people, nocturnal, mobile, and able
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: to forage and survive without care. But it does not
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: literally turn into a wild boar in one lifetime. But
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: it does have physical changes. What is the physical change?
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: Radically different skull is overstated. Adult pigs can become tougher, leaner, hairier.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: and more elusive as conditions change. Major inherited traits become
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: more common when the animals survive and breed, pass on
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: advantageous variants over successive litters. Evidence on feralization emphasizes that
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: these changes are shaped by both environments and multi-generational selection,
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: not an instant biological reversal. Not instant, but they do
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: physically change. I don't think this is totally accurate. But
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: if you see the biggest pig that they ever shot
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: that was a wild pig, I think it's called Hogzilla.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: Have you ever seen that picture?
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: I think so, yeah.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: It looks like a domestic pig. It looks like someone
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: was feeding that thing a lot and then it got
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: out and became a wild pig. Right. I don't know
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: how big that was. There's a photo of it, but
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: it's one of those perspective shots where the guy's like
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: behind it.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: They stand all far behind it. Yeah. Make it look
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: ten times larger.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But it looks crazy. There's one of them where
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: one of them is hanging from a tractor. And I
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: don't give a fuck how close you are to that thing.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: That thing's giant. Yeah. How big is Hogzilla?
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: That's like some of the gators or the crocodiles, I mean,
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: that they're finding in Africa and stuff. They have the
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: pictures sitting next to those things. And they're like 20
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: plus feet long, you know, like ridiculous.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, crocodiles get big. I think the biggest ones they've
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: gotten are like close to 20.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: See, that's the one thing about spearfishing is you know
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: the sharks are there, you know.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: Do you ever see them?
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: I have not seen. I've seen leopard sharks, but that's
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: nothing crazy.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: You never saw a great white?
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: I've never seen a great white.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: If you do, would that be the last time you
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: go spearfishing?
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: I want to say no, but I don't know. I'll
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: have to get there first.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: But if you have to hit one on the nose.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If it's like getting crazy, it's probably like, all right,
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: I'm cool on that. But they have all sorts of
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: different things. Yeah, this one. Ocean Guardians.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, that guy's definitely behind that thing. But that fucker
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: looks like he's got tusks.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: Well, look at that one to the left. The Johnny
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: 36 stone.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, look at that one, too.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 3: They said this one was maybe 1,200 pounds. It was
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 3: originally thought of to be a hoax. There's a documentary
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 3: about it. This is back in 2004 and 2005, though. Hmm.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: What's that one on the upper left? That dude's resting
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: his arm. Is that a real picture?
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: That's like a little kid, though.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: But the upper left, the kid.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 3: This one's way too close for that guy.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that one's closer than the guy. The guy's behind it.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: But that kid.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: Well, that looks like it.
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's not resting his arms on it. He's resting
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: his arms. Yeah, it is the same. That's a fat fucker, though.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: Look at the size of that thing. That looks more
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: like a domestic pig, though. Like that one right there.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: That's a good example. Go back up a little so
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: I can make it small. Yeah. Look at his snout.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: It's actually kind of long.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 3: They're also still behind it, too.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 3: Hard to tell how far, but.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 2: Why do people do that? It's big. Try to make
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: it look cool, man. I know, but it's big. I
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: like how that one says 36 stone. That must be
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: an English. Yeah, it's the mirror. That's crazy. That's a
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: big pig, but it's not. Like, what is the biggest
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: reported wild pig that was shot in Texas? Let's ask that.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's a porno. Turn that off. It's on IMDb.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: The other white meat bites back. You said the biggest
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: one shot in Texas? Yes. What is the biggest wild
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: hog that was shot in Texas? Let's guess. I'm going
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: to guess like 500 pounds. That's my guess. That's just
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: a guess, though. No official. Largest ever shot. Most credible.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: 790-pound boar. Holy shit. Captured, not shot. Near DeLeon in
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: Comanche County. January 2015. Weighed on certified mill scales. That's
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: fucking crazy big. 790's nuts. That's so big. Ugh. Can
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: you imagine millions of 790-pound wild pigs running through this country?
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That would not be very good.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: Not ideal. Yeah. So never been hunting?
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: I've shot some birds with a pellet gun or something.
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: That's about it. But you want to?
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: I would love to, yeah.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 2: What would you want to go hunting for? Do you
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: have a thing in your mind that you think would be?
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: I think something like a deer is probably a good
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: starting point.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 2: Do you know how to shoot a bow? Or would
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: you want to use a rifle?
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: I haven't shot compound too often. I shoot a recurve.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: It's definitely not something I'm super practiced with, but I'm
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: pretty good with it. I went to an archery competition
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: pretty recently and did pretty good with it.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: Did you really? With a compound bow?
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: With a recurve bow.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: A recurve bow. Don't hunt with that. Yeah. It's too risky.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: You're not going to.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: That would be.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: You've got to get real good.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: You'd have to. Yeah. A lot of practice, a lot
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: of hunts, and a lot of experience.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: How far are you from San Diego?
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: An hour, two hours if there's traffic.
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: There's a really good archery shop in San Diego. I
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: think it's Performance Archery. Is that the name of the place?
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: But it's one of the best shops in the country.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to get a compound bow and
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: want to get someone to really make sure that it's
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: sized correctly, that the draw length is correct and everything
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, Performance Archery. Why are you showing me
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: a map? Yeah, just go back to the– Does.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 3: It show you anything there?
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in– I've been there before with John Dudley.
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: It's a great place, like really elite, 4.6 stars on Google. Yeah.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: It's– you want to go to a really good place,
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 2: so they make sure they set you up correct. Like
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: that's a big thing with bows. It's like, you know,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: I couldn't shoot John Jones' bow, you know. He's really tall.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: I'm short. The length would be different. My peep sight
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: would be different. It has to all be measured out
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: to your size, and everyone's different. So you'd have to
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: really make sure that your bow is set up for
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: you correctly. And it's just like martial arts in that
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: you want to learn correctly first. You don't want to
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: unlearn it and try to learn something the right way
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 2: because you're always going to fall back on the way
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: you got comfortable with doing it the first time. Right.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: So that's a good thing to do. Nice.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: I've shot a compound bow here or there. But I
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: like all that stuff. I'm really, like I said, I'm
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: big into continuing to learn lots of different skills, especially
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: in that realm. And, yeah, I'm all about it.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: Do you think of that as a way to, like,
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: just advance your mental function just in all of life
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 2: that will help your fighting? Like the more different things
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: you learn, the more different things you do, that you can, like,
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: take things from that and apply it to fighting? Or
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: do you just do it because you enjoy it?
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: I have to say I do it because I enjoy it.
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: It's probably not directly related to fighting, but more of
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: the self-reliance and the self-preserverance. To me, I got home
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: making my own Kydex holsters and my leather holsters and
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: doing all that kind of stuff is a good start.
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: I have this old truck that I want to tear
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 1: apart and learn how to work on it from the
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: ground up. Um, being able to hunt and provide like just,
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: I'm always thinking like when shit hits the fan, I
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: better be ready for it, you know? And so being
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: a martial artist, being a warrior encompasses a lot of aspects,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: you know, hand to hand combat is only one of
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: those things. There's a lot of different aspects to, uh,
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: self self perseverance. So I think about it a little
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: bit that way. Um, I do it cause it's fun
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: and it's, it's just exciting to learn a new skill
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: and then have a, an end product, something that you'd
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: made yourself.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's always a good idea
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: to be self-reliant. And also, like, if you have a garden,
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: that's another great thing. Like, you have a place where
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: you can grow your own food. Yeah. So you're not
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: getting any pesticides or herbicides or bullshit on your food. 100%.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, the end goal for me is to have
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: probably would not be the only property because my wife
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: just loves Southern California so much. But Wyoming, Montana, Idaho,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: go get a couple acres up there, move the family.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: maybe some close friends, and just have our own little
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: self-reliant thing up there with some crop, some wildlife, the
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: ability to hunt up there on our land. A lot
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: of the stuff I'm seeing up there, they have stocked lakes,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: and the rivers have fish as well. So something like
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: that is really beautiful.
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: You were really thinking about a possible catastrophe.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: It's always on my mind. No, I just want to
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: get away from the hustle and bustle of everything and
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: just be out there in nature is really important. kind
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: of the hopes for that.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: Are you stuck in California because of your wife and
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: what you do outside of MMA, or have you ever
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: thought about moving to a different place to train?
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: Well, training is kind of the main thing that keeps
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: me there, honestly. My team is there. All my coaches
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: are there. Of course, I can bounce around.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: What gym are you out of now?
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: I'm all over the place. I train at the Dent
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: Training Center in New Orleans. I train at CSW Fullerton
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: with Eric Paulson.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: I love Eric. Yeah, he's awesome. Didn't your dad train
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: with Eric? He did.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: That's how I got over there in the first place
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: because Ben was running the fight practice at CSW then.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: Bro, Eric's an OG.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: He's so dope, man. He's an OG, dude. He's such
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: a cool guy.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: Eric Paulson was– I remember back in the day when
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 2: he had like a crazy ponytail in the days where
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: you could grab hair.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's why he cut it off.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: I think it was Sean Shirky, right? He was fighting
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: him bare knuckle and homie kept grabbing his ponytail and
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 1: and holding him there, and that's the only reason why.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: And I think right after that fight, he went and
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: chopped it off and had short hair from that point.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: I know it's nice to be good-looking with long, flowy locks,
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: but that shit is– especially back in those days when
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: you could grab hair. You remember Hoist Gracie versus Kimo?
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: Hoist had a fucking handful of hair when he was
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: on top and just blasted him.
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: That's– I mean, to me– Cut the hair, man. Cut
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: it or braid it.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: Especially if it's the old UFC days where you could
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: actually grab hair.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: If you could grab it, yeah.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, people complain all the time about guys
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: grabbing their shorts, and it does happen all the time.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: Guys grab shorts. I'm always like, why are you wearing shorts? Right.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you wear shorts. Do you wear
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: spandex or do you wear shorts? Spandex, yeah.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: Why are you wearing shorts? Why are you wearing anything
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: someone can grab?
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: And especially, like, everybody likes the loose, like, the high-slit.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: cut shorts nowadays so I mean it's more to grab
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: onto yeah.
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 2: I just don't understand it here it is it's crazy
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: oh yeah man this is bare knuckle head butts.
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah and then you kick him in the nuts and
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: all that stuff back then.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: Bro wrestlers were a fucking nightmare when you could head
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: butt if you go back and remember like the Mark
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: Coleman days he would get in your guard and head
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 2: butt the shit out of you.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: Right yeah and how are you getting off of the
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: off your back against a high level wrestler like that
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: I know, it's crazy.
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 3: He's just grabbing his hair like it's a wrist lock.
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: I know, it's crazy.
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: He had his hair and then, I don't know if
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: Eric escapes or if the time goes out, but Eric
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: ends up finishing him.
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: God, he got a crazy cut here.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 3: What is this, a floor time count you had to
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 3: get up if you're on the ground for too long?
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: Is that what it is?
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: That's WCC.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. I wonder how much time. Oh, it's counting down.
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to see what happens if it gets
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 3: up here.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: Right. Do they stand them up? Yeah. Wow. That's crazy.
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but Eric Paulson is such a legend of the game.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, he is.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: There's not a day that I go in there and
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: learn submission flows from him that I'm not just like
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: blown away.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. I forgot they did that.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I think back then in the early days of fighting,
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of promoters that were trying a
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: bunch of different tactics to try to make the fights
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: more interesting. Right.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: That would be the only reason. Like, I don't want
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: you to sit and lay there anymore and get up
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: and start throwing fists again.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: I hate stand-ups. I hate them. I hate them with
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 2: all my heart. I don't think in a five-minute round
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: you should ever be stood up.
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: There's a lot that can go on there. I mean,
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: especially if you're holding position. You're regaining, like, your breath
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: a little bit. you're setting up a pass or something,
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't always look apparent to the crowd
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: or to the ref.
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: Even if you could hold him down, like who cares?
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: You could hold a guy up against a cage, right?
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 2: And all you have to do is like land a
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: few knees and a few punches occasionally. And they'll let
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: you stay in that position.
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like they're breaking that up even more and more.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: I don't think you should break up anything. I think
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 2: it should be reserved for fouls. I think if someone
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: commits a foul, then you stand them up and then
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 2: you assess whether or not someone gets a point taken
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: away or whether or not that person needs time. But if,
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: if it's, A place where you don't want to be
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: and the guy's putting you in a place where you
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: don't want to be, he's winning that exchange. Right. If
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: a guy can hold you down and you can't get up,
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: if you don't like it and you can't get up,
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: then he's winning. Right.
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 2: We lose as an audience. The audience loses.
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 3: There's a 10-minute limit for ground time.
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 2: What fight was this? This is WCC? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: What was it called? World Combat Championships. Is that the
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: one where Henzo? Yes. Henzo Gracie fought Ben Spikers. Do
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: you remember that one? Oh, dude. This is one of
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: the reasons why elbows to the back of the head
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: are illegal. Because Henzo, this guy was calling Henzo. There's you, dog.
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: Look at that. Look at that guy. Henzo was in
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 2: his hotel room, and this guy was calling him every
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: fucking ten minutes to try to wake him up. And
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: Henzo had to take the phone and shove it in
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: a drawer. He was fucking with him constantly. And Henzo
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: got his back and elbowed the fucking shit out of
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: him from rear mount. So this isn't the same fight.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, right here. Oh, here it is. That's it.
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 2: So Henzo gets his back, and here it is. Look
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 2: at these elbows, dude. Just ferocious elbows. So this dude
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: was a judo champion.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, why would you wear a
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: gi against.
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: A guy like Henzo? And Henzo doesn't have a gi on.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: And then Henzo steps off and then gets on his neck.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, shit.
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Ow, that was crossing the line. After he just
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 2: elbowed the shit out of him.
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: See, you know what's funny is like the 12 to
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: 6 rule, everybody– uh, fantasizes about like how, how much
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: better that is. And sure you got some cutting, but your,
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: your force that you can deliver in my perspective, straight
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: down with an elbow like that is so much more
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: tremendous than you do on this.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: Yes. This was only, you know why it was outlawed, right? Why?
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 2: Big John McCarthy has got a great story about this.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: When the ESPN people or the athletic commission people rather
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 2: were first, uh, deciding whether or not they were going
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: to sanction MMA, they had seen these ESPN karate breaking
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: demonstrations at like 2 in the morning. And these fucking guys, yeah!
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 2: And they break a bunch of bricks. And they're like,
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: you have to outlaw that. That should be illegal. People
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 2: could die. That's literally what they thought was the most
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 2: powerful strike was the 12 to 6 elbow. So you
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: couldn't even do a 12 to 6 elbow standing, which
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: is crazy. You couldn't tomahawk. So you couldn't come down
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 2: with a tomahawk 12-6. Yeah. It had to be at
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: a slight angle. It had to be some kind of angle,
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: which is the fucking dumbest thing ever.
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: Chop him in half.
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: This, by far, across, like, it's rotating your shoulders to
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: do it like a punch.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: It's the most power.
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you might get more cutting.
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 2: It's available if a guy's doing this. If a guy's
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 2: covering up like that and you go straight down. For sure.
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 2: But to eliminate it as an option, the only reason
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 2: why was just ignorant.
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 3: The WCC had two different brackets, grapplers bracket, strikers bracket.
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 3: Grapplers could be on the ground for up to 10 minutes.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 3: Strikers only had two minutes.
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: For the whole fight? And submissions were illegal.
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 1: What?
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: In a strikers fight? Yeah.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 3: And then the idea was the winner of both brackets
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 3: would fight at the end.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's so crazy. Yeah, it only made it that
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: one tournament. That's so crazy. What year was that?
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 3: 1995. 4 or 595 maybe.
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: Okay. So this is right after the UFC burst onto
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 2: the scene. UFC was 93.
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 3: It just says they were trying to be different than
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 3: the UFC with different rules.
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They're doing something like that again where it's like
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: striking only MMA where, I don't know, if you go
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: back to the ground, they stand you back up or something.
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: Where is this?
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I saw it on Instagram.
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, what is 1FC doing it the right way
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 2: where they just have striking fights? Yeah. They have MMA
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 2: fights and striking fights.
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 2: Dude, I've been trying to talk Dana into doing that
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 2: for years, you know, because I know they got into
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: Zufa boxing, which is great. You know, I'm like, why not? Like,
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 2: when people boo when things go to the ground, how
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: about have striking fights? But in his mind, kickboxing in
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 2: America has a stink on it. From the PKA karate days,
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: you know, which just wasn't that good. They weren't allowed
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: a leg kick. It was all above the waist. Right. Yeah.
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: You know, there was great fighters back then like Rick
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 2: Rufus and a few guys that were like really elite.
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: But for the most part, the skill level wasn't that
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 2: high and people never really got into PKA karate. They
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: never really got into kick. It never really became the
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 2: kind of success that boxing was. And so I think
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: in his mind, that's how people look at kickboxing.
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: I think it's the most, it has the most possibility
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: in terms of like a sport that is not being
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 2: taken advantage of, like that it has the most potential
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 2: by far.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, like you say, you look at the one
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 1: championship guys that are over there kickboxing Muay Thai, and
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: they're even doing hybrid fights for that DJ versus Ra-Tang one.
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: They're switching it up all crazy, and I don't know.
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's getting pretty good traction over there. It is.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: I heard they have some difficulties, and I hope they
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: do really well. The world needs more organizations. The MMA
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: world needs a bunch of options.
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: And, you know, this PFL merger where PFL has merged with,
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: what is it? MVP. Yeah. Jake Paul's production company, MVP. Yeah.
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: That's great. We need more of that. Netflix is involved. Fantastic.
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 2: You need more. You need more, more options, more fights,
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 2: and it's just going to make more MMA fans. Right.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: Just for me, when you see a guy like that
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 2: cat that I was telling you about, Mega Medoff, who
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 2: fought for PFL, like, More people need to know about
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 2: these guys. There's so many guys out there that are
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 2: fucking killers, man.
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: The talent pool is so deep. Outside of the UFC,
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: it's extremely deep. You've got people coming out of Russia,
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: these Brazilians, people all over the world that nobody's ever
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: heard of just because they haven't been on that big
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: stage quite yet.
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: I think it would be really cool that we did
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: champion versus champion kind of fights.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: It's never going to happen. The UFC would never do that.
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: What if their guys win? Fuck you. The benefit of
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 2: it for the UFC is it's so outweighed by the negatives.
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 2: Especially since they're number one. And they're not number one
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: a little bit. For the casual, MMA is UFC. It's
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 2: like Q-tips. It's not a cotton swab. It's a fucking Q-tip.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: From a business perspective, I understand it. I think as
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: a fighter, it would be cool to challenge yourself once
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: you Once you get to that pinnacle, if you have
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: title defenses and you're kind of taking everybody out, it's like, hey,
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: I really want to be the best in the world.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: Let me fight all the top guys in the world.
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 1: So it may never happen, but it's.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: A cool ideology. The only way it could happen, if
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 2: something like MVP got to a level of prominence in
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 2: the public eye where they developed a roster of champions
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 2: that was equal to the UFC, then it would make sense.
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: Then no one's losing. Yeah.
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because then it brings in all the crowds from everywhere.
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: Right. And then you do a co-promotion for, like, a
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: gigantic super fight. Like, you know, the UFC's version of
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 2: Floyd Mayweather versus Manny Pacquiao. Right. You know, you have
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 2: something where these guys are so huge. It's just like,
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: let's make this happen. Everyone's going to get rich. Let's go.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 1: It has to be something of that caliber. Like, it
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 1: has to be a Conor McGregor-level champion where that, you know,
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 1: people are– coming from all over anywhere to sign on
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: to buy the fight at home or to show up
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: in person. And I think you'd have to have two level,
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: two guys of that level to bring some of that
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 1: traction to it.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 2: Do you think Conor fights again?
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It sounds like he's going to.
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 2: I think he does.
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: I think he does. The one more and then he's
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: done with it.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 1: I hope, you know. It just, that's what, like you say,
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 1: guys stay in it too long. It's like, and some
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: of these guys, that's all they know. It's the only
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: thing they've ever found success in or found the ability
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: to put food on the table or provide for their families.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: And so, like, what else do they know? They gave
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 1: everything to fighting.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 2: Well, with Conor, it's not that, though.
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: But that's not Conor. Yeah. He went from such a
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 1: high place to, like, doing what he's doing now in
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: the fighting world. It's just like, why even step in
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: and do that anymore?
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's just because he still can for a
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 2: little bit more time. I mean, he's 37, 38 now. Realistically,
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 2: he's got two years left maybe. If you really take
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 2: care of yourself and we both know he's partied a
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's going to get back to that
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: level of training and mindset to it though.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 2: You know, it's very difficult to know because he was
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 2: capable of doing it at one point in his life.
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that he can never do that
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 2: again just because he's rich. And I think you can
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: underestimate a man's character and say that he can't ever
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: reach those heights again. A guy like Conor is a
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: special guy. It takes a special type of person to
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 2: put on a performance like he did against Eddie Alvarez.
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 2: He was in the fucking matrix, man. To be there
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 2: live when he was doing that, I was like, good lord.
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 2: That was special.
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's pulling it. Eddie's like, Skinning his nose, blah, blah,
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 1: and coming.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: Back with it. And then he's countering instantaneous with perfect precision.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: He was on fire. If he can reach that height,
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 2: as long as his body holds up, but here's the
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 2: problem is both of his ACLs have been torn. Both
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 2: of his meniscus has been blown out. Now with the
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 2: crazy one, with that crazy jumping roundhouse kick, who knows, man?
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 2: Who knows what he could still do?
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 1: I will never say never. It's not that he couldn't
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: do it. It's just that, will he do it? Will
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 1: he put that time and effort to recollect and to
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 1: be of that zen, of that Bushido like he used
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: to be? Because the way he used to talk and
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: be philosophical and stoic about training, the way he explained
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: it and delved into it, that's what drew people to
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: Connor before anything. The way he talked about the warrior
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 1: lifestyle and he didn't care about anything else and he
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 1: lost his mind to it, those are the things that
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 1: intrigue the people. This real true warrior persona. And That
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 1: was the biggest question with his last one. Everybody's like, oh,
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 1: do you think Conor's going to do it? Do you
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 1: think Conor? And it was the same answer. Do I
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 1: think he can do it? For sure. But the problem
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 1: with that is Conor's so good at talking that he
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 1: could convince you that he's doing anything. So I'm like,
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not there in his camp. I'm not seeing what
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 1: he's doing behind the scenes. I really can't make that guess, honestly.
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and much like you, I want to believe. You know,
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 2: you hear him talk, you're like, I want to believe.
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 2: I want to see him pull it off. Of course. Yeah,
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 2: we all did. You know, he was a very important
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 2: part of fighting. He was a really special person that
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 2: came along and brought a lot of attention to the
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 2: sport that would not, it wouldn't have been the same
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 2: without him. That whole era of time from 10 years
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 2: ago or whatever it was when he really burst, more
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 2: than that, but I think he won his, what year
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: would he win his first title? When was it against
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 2: Jose Aldo? What year was that? It's at the end
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 2: of 2015.
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 3: It was December 2015.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so 11 years ago, really when he became Conor.
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 2: You know, that one punch knockout of Jose Aldo is
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 2: really when he became that guy. I mean, he was
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: huge before that, but that was the one. And then,
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 2: of course, the Eddie Alvarez fight was another one. I mean,
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: it's 10 years, man. That's a long time. Right. A
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 2: lot of booze, a lot of partying, a lot of
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 2: fucking off, you know.
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: Yep. A lot of luxury, you know, not waking up.
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 1: That's hard to go running when you're sleeping.
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 2: Also, the difference, as you said before, between 45 and,
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 2: you know, and going all the way up, now he
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 2: wants to fight at 70, you know?
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's also, that's a weight class of killers
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: right there. You talk about Carlos Prates and this and that,
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 1: and I'm like.
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 2: Morales, bro.
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Morales.
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 2: That guy's giant.
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 1: Those guys are all huge. Huge. Even Ian Gary, you
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 1: saw him sparring Conor, and he's far bigger than Conor is.
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: Conor's not. Conor's not that ginormous of a guy, from
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: my understanding. He gets pretty thick, but he's not really
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: that big of an individual.
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 2: No, 55 is really probably as heavy as he should
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 2: be fighting at, realistically, when you think about those guys.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then is he going to cut the weight
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 1: to do that?
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 2: It's hard.
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: Is he going to do all that stuff?
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: Well, if he doesn't want to do that, he really
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 2: probably shouldn't be fighting.
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, the only thing with that is that he
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: can kind of pick who it is he's fighting to
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 1: an extent, and so... He can get away with the
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: weight class.
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 2: Thing a little bit. Yeah, he can. He can do
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 2: whatever the fuck he wants. But, you know, if I
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 2: was in his– it's also at his age, should he
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: even be cutting that kind of weight anymore? Right. Maybe
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 2: just pick– the real fight is 170 with Michael Chandler. Like,
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: have that fight. You want to have one more fight
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 2: and go out?
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 1: That would be beautiful for him, yeah.
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 2: Because Max is a tough– it's a tough matchup for him.
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 2: It's tough. If he doesn't get Max out of there
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: in the first two rounds, then good luck with that. Like,
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: Max is going to, I mean, Max's whole strategy is
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 2: we're going to drown him. Yeah. That's what his thoughts were.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a tough one. Max is as tough as
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 1: they come, and he's fighting the top of the top consistently.
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 1: So he's only getting better. He's only getting more experienced.
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: I think Michael Chandler would be.
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 2: Great regardless.
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: I think it draws the crowd. I think it brings
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: the energy to it. I think that's a good skill
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: level for Conor to come back.
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 2: They already went through the whole Ultimate Fighter thing together
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 2: and talked all this shit to each other. It's crazy
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 2: that Chandler sat on the shelf for like two years
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 2: waiting for that fight. And then finally he's like, all right,
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 2: I guess it's not happening. Right. He got fucked.
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: He did. And Chandler to me is like, he's very
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: physically tough. I don't think he is as skillful as
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 1: Max or some of these other guys. So I think
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 1: that's a great fight for Conor. I think that's a
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: good one for him to come back on.
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, Chandler's a wild dog.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: He is a wild dog, but he relies on that
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 1: too much is what I've seen. It's like he comes
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 1: out all crazy, and it's just like, dude, that's the
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 1: same thing. Start with the jab. Who am I to
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 1: say it quite yet? He's there doing his thing, but
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: from my perspective, there needs to be a little bit
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 1: more calculation there.
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not going to happen at this stage of
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 2: his career. But, yeah, if you go back and watch
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 2: his Eddie Alvarez fights back when he was fighting in Bellator.
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like a war back and forth. Both
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: those guys hit the canvas like three or four times each.
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 2: Those fights were insane. For people that want to see
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 2: a great fight that you probably never saw before, if
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 2: you only watch the UFC, go back and watch Michael
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 2: Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez one and two. Those fights are nuts. Right.
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I said, it's just like a like war
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 1: back and forth, but that's, that's also, and Chandler is
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 1: a very physical guy. He's very explosive. And just think
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 1: of like back at his prime, you know, how much
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 1: more explosive he was, how much power he had, how
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 1: much energy he was delivering to that fight. So, and that's,
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 1: that's why he was performing like that. But like, like
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of fighters, you know, like the Roy Jones
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 1: and stuff is you can't always rely on that, especially
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 1: in your later years. Like that's back to this. You
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 1: got to be thinking with, with this, especially as your
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 1: body starts to get a little bit, slower and not
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 1: as explosive. So, I don't know. He's over there getting
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 1: after it. I mean, that Gagey fight, he was definitely
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 1: not on the winning end of it, but he stayed
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 1: in it and fought hard and then.
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 2: The Poirier fight. He's had some great fights.
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 1: He's had some great fights for sure. I mean, you
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: fight a guy like Rufy. Rufy's just on a tear
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 1: right now. If you don't take him down to the ground,
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 1: there's not a lot of people that beat him on
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 1: a pure striking match right now anyway.
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 2: He's so good.
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's... See, that's another one. That's another, like, individual
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 1: that you look at it like a work of art,
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 1: you know, someone who really understands what it means to
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 1: be a striker.
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and super creative. Like, he does a lot of
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 2: wild stuff in sparring. There's some awesome sparring footage of him, like,
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 2: pulling off crescent kicks when he's, like, two inches from you.
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's, like, backfist, spinning backfist.
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 2: He's artistic. I mean, he's very creative when he's in there.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful to watch. He's got a great fight coming up.
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 2: Who is he fighting? Why did I blank on it?
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 2: He's fighting.
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 4: Someone.
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, Armand Saroukian. Oh, yeah. Yes. Two or three weeks. Yes.
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 2: Armand Saroukian, and they're fighting in L.A. That's a good fight.
• 2:25:30
  Speaker 2: That's a really good fight.
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the whole thing with him. He's got to
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 1: make sure he doesn't get taken down. Against someone like
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 1: Armand Saroukian, that's a tall task right there.
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. That guy's one of the best wrestlers in
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 2: the sport. It's interesting to see him stay relevant outside
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 2: the UFC when the UFC hasn't been offering fights. That's great.
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 2: Very smart.
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: He's doing his thing.
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 2: He's doing his thing. It's very smart what he's doing. And,
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: you know, getting into the RAF matches and doing a
• 2:25:57
  Speaker 2: bunch of different things on social media. He just stays
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 2: out there. Yeah.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 1: He's hanging out with all the Twitch streamers and stuff. Mm-hmm.
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 1: And it's not like he needs money, you know.
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 1: He's good on that part.
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 2: That's weird. It's weird for a guy to be that
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 2: good who's rich. Right. He's so good and so tough.
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, two trains of thought there. It's like you either
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 1: have all the amenities to do so or like you
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 1: have all the amenities so then you're– You're a pussy.
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 1: You don't need to do anything.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're soft. You just sit around. But not him.
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 2: He's fucking shredded and he grew up rich. Yeah, like
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 2: stupid rich. He's literally Bruce Wayne.
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 1: He's the UFC Bruce Wayne.
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 2: He's Bruce Wayne. I mean he's always got Ferraris and shit.
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 2: You ever watch his video series on YouTube, his training series?
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 1: Which one?
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 2: Like the logs? Yeah. So they roll into a town.
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 2: Like it rolls into LA. First thing he does is
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: goes and rents a Lamborghini. So when he shows up
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 2: at training, he's driving around a rented Lamborghini everywhere. He's
• 2:26:50
  Speaker 2: got that kind of scratch. Right. And yet he's training
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 2: like a fucking absolute animal. And he's a great fighter. Right.
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, he has no flaws in his game. No
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 2: flaw in terms of heart. He doesn't quit. His first
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 2: fight with Islam was fucking chaos. He gave Islam one
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 2: of the toughest fights of his career. Right.
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 1: I think that's probably the closest. I mean, besides obviously
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 1: Islam's loss.
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 1: He really got tested like that, you know.
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 1: And that was a short notice, wasn't it, for Armand?
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he's got all the skills. He's a top
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 1: contender for sure.
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 2: And when you think about Rufy, the real problem that
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 2: he had in the UFC was that one fight with
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 2: Benoit Saint-Denis. He got taken down. And, you know, Benoit
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 2: is obviously a very elite grappler. So it would be
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 2: interesting to see. if he can avoid armor.
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 1: That's the big question right there for sure. I would
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 1: think that that's what his camp is surrounded around is
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 1: takedown defense, getting up off the bottom, blocking some chokes,
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 1: and being able to get back to the feet. I mean,
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's, you know– For the MMA striker guys,
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: it's not like you have to be, like, the dopest wrestler, like,
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 1: all around. But you do need to be really good
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 1: at defending takedowns.
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 1: And you do need to have one, two, three escapes
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 1: off the bottom, a sweep, some kind of ability to
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 1: stand up, you know. And then, yeah, get back to
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 1: your feet and make this a close fight. If you
• 2:28:20
  Speaker 1: get stuck on the bottom, then you're done for. You're screwed.
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 2: And I think for a lot of these guys that
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 2: are elite strikers, it takes that one fight where you
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 2: do get dominated on the ground to really have a
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 2: wake-up call. And I think a good example of that
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 2: might be Cyril Ghosn. When Cyril Ghosn fought Jon Jones. Yeah.
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 2: And also Francis. Francis beat him up on the ground
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 2: as well. Right. But the Jon Jones one was, I think,
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 2: a real humbling wake-up call because Jon essentially avoided getting
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 2: hit completely, took him down, and strangled him real quick. Right.
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 2: And then he's sitting there like, fuck.
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 2: From that moment on, that dude's been on a tear.
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, and you see how he performed on the
• 2:28:59
  Speaker 2: White House lawn against, you know, what we thought is
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 2: arguably one of the greatest strikers that's ever fought in
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 2: the UFC, Alex Pereira. And he certainly was at middleweight
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 2: and light heavyweight. But Ciro gone at heavyweight is something special, man.
• 2:29:13
  Speaker 2: There's a good example of a guy that you were
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 2: talking about who hits and doesn't get hit. We've literally
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 2: never seen him get rocked. Right.
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 1: Which is crazy. And he's got that savant. I wouldn't
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 1: say it's completely savate, but he bounces. It's almost like
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 1: that karate savate. He moves really well in and out. Dude,
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 1: if you can do that at heavyweight, you're that big
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 1: and you can move like that, it's going to be
• 2:29:33
  Speaker 1: very difficult for a lot of those guys to track
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: you and keep.
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 2: Up with that. And, you know, we were talking about, like,
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 2: point fighting, like how point fighting has, like, such a, like,
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 2: I think it's a great skill to learn. Another great
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 2: skill to learn is basketball, and that's what Cyril Ghosn did.
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 2: He played a lot of basketball. And if you think
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 2: about a big guy, Where you're constantly exploding and moving
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 2: and all this different changing directions. Yeah. That would definitely
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 2: benefit you with footwork.
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's all sorts of hand-eye coordination. You've got to
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 1: be very quick and be able to move your hands
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 1: and your feet in succession.
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 2: Because, look, no heavyweights move like that guy. Right. He's
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 2: the gold standard for elite moving heavyweights in the UFC.
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 2: It's zero gone. And there's no close second. Who's a
• 2:30:15
  Speaker 2: close second at heavyweights? You got to go back to
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 2: Travis Brown when he was in his prime. Travis Brown,
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 2: when he was in his prime, was very light on
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 2: his feet and moved very well. But I think Cyril
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 2: Ghosn is like a new level, a new level of
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 2: elite mobile heavyweight who also has ridiculous knockout power.
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would say the only
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 1: person that rivals his speed and agility would be maybe
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 1: like a Hokie. I haven't really seen.
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 2: Hokit's fast, but I don't think he's got that kind
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 2: of footwork speed.
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 1: Not at all. There's no comparison on the skill levels
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 1: of that movement and the striking. He just has similar
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 1: speed and agility.
• 2:30:55
  Speaker 2: What Hokit has is elite wrestling, though. And a lot
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 2: of shit talking.
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 1: A lot of shit talking. He gets people riled up.
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that's also something that Conor
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 1: did really well is that you got these guys going
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 1: into a fight going, I cannot get beat by this guy.
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 1: He said this and this and this. And I have
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 1: all this pressure, and you could see it. You saw
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 1: it on Jose Aldo. What's the other Brazilian he fought?
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It starts with an R. He's fought
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 1: him before. Maybe it was his second fight. I don't know.
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: I'm blanking on his name.
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know who you're talking about. I'm seeing it
• 2:31:32
  Speaker 2: in my head.
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 1: You can see he runs out all crazy. Just everybody.
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 1: He gets them all, though. If you have that added pressure,
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 1: it's a psychological effect. And I think Hokit does the
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 1: same thing. He takes people out of their comfort zone.
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 1: Now everything's extra tense. Everything's guarded. You're not taking any
• 2:31:51
  Speaker 1: chances or risks or stepping out of line. You're very,
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 1: very safe and secluded. You have to be loose when
• 2:31:59
  Speaker 1: you're fighting. You can't be thinking that.
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 2: And you probably didn't sleep good the night before because
• 2:32:03
  Speaker 2: you fucking hate this guy.
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you're like, yeah, Rala pissed off. All
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 1: I want to do is take his head off. You're
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 1: not thinking about technique. You're thinking about taking his head off,
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 1: that's it, one big overhand. It's like, dude, when you
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 1: fight angry, then you had all this skill, and your
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 1: emotion could take it right out of you. See, that's
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 1: another aspect of this striking game, of this MMA game.
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 2: Do you think that that should be.
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 4: Taught more, the mental aspect of the game, of just
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 4: being able to stay in your own head and not
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 4: get affected by these outside influences, not get affected by,
• 2:32:35
  Speaker 4: and understand what these things are.
• 2:32:37
  Speaker 2: So when you encounter them, You have a coach, I think,
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 2: that could teach you not just how to fight but
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 2: also how to maintain your peace of mind and how
• 2:32:48
  Speaker 2: to maintain your focus and not get distracted.
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, 100%. I don't know. Everybody's individual. It's hard to
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 1: have a program because you have guys that go to
• 2:32:59
  Speaker 1: athletic therapists or whatever, like performance therapists, and they sit
• 2:33:03
  Speaker 1: and they do all that stuff. I think a little
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 1: bit is you're born with it. You have the ability
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 1: to control, like, emotions better than others. Some people go through, again,
• 2:33:12
  Speaker 1: back to, like, just hard life experiences is the best teacher.
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 1: So a lot of people learn that way. I don't know.
• 2:33:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is for, like, each individual person. Me, like,
• 2:33:24
  Speaker 1: the third person I train with is my boxing coach,
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 1: Dale Roybal, out of his– we literally train out of
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 1: his garage in his front yard, you know. And, like,
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 1: we talk spiritually– beyond just boxing. We talk about the world.
• 2:33:38
  Speaker 1: We delve into the spirituality of the gospel and God
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 1: and what that means to us. He's a big-time recurve guy.
• 2:33:48
  Speaker 1: That's who I went and did my archery competition with.
• 2:33:49
  Speaker 1: He's a big-time leatherworking guy. And so we just sit
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 1: and talk about what it means to be a warrior,
• 2:33:56
  Speaker 1: the philosophy and the psychology behind that, what it means
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 1: to control your emotions when you're engaged with certain aspects
• 2:34:03
  Speaker 1: in life. How do you come out on the other
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 1: side of it? Like, every day, I mean, oftentimes we
• 2:34:08
  Speaker 1: stop and we're just sitting and talking about things. And,
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 1: you know, my wife's always like, you're just sitting there talking,
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 1: hanging out with them. I'm like, this is part of training, baby.
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 1: We're talking psychology, you know? Like, it's something we've got
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 1: to spend extra time doing. But I do. Like, I
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 1: get there and we'll sit and talk for 30 minutes
• 2:34:23
  Speaker 1: sometimes before we even warm up. I'm stretching and then
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 1: we get into it. He starts wrapping hands. Like, we're
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 1: always just, like, adjusting and constantly talking about it.
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 2: So, yeah. That's a great resource.
• 2:34:34
  Speaker 1: To me, that's fantastic. It makes fighting spiritual to me.
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 1: It takes it another level up. I got him. We
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 1: really connect on a lot of things. Eric Paulson is
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 1: an absolute legend of the game. I have a lot
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 1: of experience that I learned from him, a lot of mindset.
• 2:34:52
  Speaker 1: He's the same way. Ben Jones, he's the guy that
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 1: you want to go into battle with. He's the one
• 2:34:57
  Speaker 1: that you guys hear in the corner that's super loud.
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 1: He's the kind of guy that, yeah, he's putting you
• 2:35:03
  Speaker 1: through that hardship mentally and physically in the room. And
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 1: if you can endure that, then you can go out
• 2:35:09
  Speaker 1: and fight. So I think there's different levels to it.
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 1: You've got to get it in different ways. But it's interpersonal,
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 1: you know, and you've got to delve into that. And
• 2:35:19
  Speaker 1: it's got to be its own practice, its own training
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 1: for the day. So 100%, I mean, yeah, if you
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 1: get riled up by the littlest thing and you go
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 1: out there and you try to go crazy, you're just
• 2:35:29
  Speaker 1: like a kindergartner in this fight game. You've lost everything,
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 1: and emotion can do that to you. So, yeah, you
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 1: have to be on top of that. I say there's
• 2:35:37
  Speaker 1: so many levels to this. There's the cardio. There's skill set.
• 2:35:40
  Speaker 1: There's being relaxed. There's an emotional aspect that you have
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 1: to think about because everybody gets hit, and what's the
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 1: natural reaction? I'm going to get you right back. But
• 2:35:50
  Speaker 1: the best fighter can get hit and just not even
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 1: think about it, not even get riled up one heart.
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 1: Their heartbeat doesn't even go up one level. Bam, the
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 1: game plan stays the same. Bam, bam, bam. I'm intelligently blocking.
• 2:36:02
  Speaker 1: I'm doing my stuff. I've never deviated from what I'm doing.
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 1: And if you could do that, beautiful.
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 2: You got it. That's an awesome mindset, brother. I can't
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 2: wait to see you inside there again. And thank you
• 2:36:12
  Speaker 2: very much for being here. It was a lot of fun.
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it.
• 2:36:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. It was a great experience.
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 2: My pleasure. Good luck in the future. I'm sure I'll
• 2:36:18
  Speaker 2: be calling one of your fights soon. Yes, sir. All right. Beautiful. Bye, everybody.