Latest / Did That Age Well? / #192 – Did Spider-Man 3 age well? (w/ Michael Borne)

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#192 – Did Spider-Man 3 age well? (w/ Michael Borne) · Did That Age Well?

0:00
Hey everyone, what's up? Welcome to did that age.
0:02
Well, I'm your host, Molly Smith here at dude IDK Studios.
0:05
And before we get into today's episode on spider man, we have
0:10
another spider we need to discuss, and that's spider
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moving company with a why? Can't believe that the moment is
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finally here when we're talking about a movie with the word
0:20
Spider in it in as an homage to our sponsor, spider moving
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company. Again, that's spider with AY.
0:29
They're a little different. So I couldn't recommend.
0:32
Excuse me, couldn't recommend them enough.
0:35
I would say that if you're looking to move across the
0:38
country, just across town, whether it's residential or
0:42
commercial, go ahead and go to spidermovie.com to get a free
0:47
quote and give him a follow on Instagram.
0:49
I'll put the links in the show notes.
0:51
Thanks again Spider for supporting dude IDK and the did
0:55
that Age Well podcast. Now today I couldn't be more
0:58
excited. We've got the youngest guest
1:02
I've ever had on the pod. We've got you can even say the
1:06
voice of a generation. I'll take that.
1:09
That's that's a mic drop. I ain't even going to lie.
1:12
I don't know if I say I'm like that, but I'll take.
1:15
It well, I did. I said that.
1:17
I'll take it, I'll take it. Everyone, welcome to your ears.
1:21
Michael Bourne, welcome. To the yo-yo, yo, thank you so
1:24
much for having me. Super excited to delve into this
1:27
movie and really just into this concept of just like superheroes
1:31
in general. Yeah, as I mentioned earlier,
1:34
I'm kind of a nerd on this type of stuff, so.
1:37
Yeah, you're in good company here.
1:38
Trying to nerd out. Trying to nerd out mutual.
1:41
Love that. Love that.
1:42
That's Yeah, You're in good company here.
1:43
Nerds are in good company here for sure.
1:46
So you and I met, well, this is the first time we met in person,
1:50
but you and I met a few months ago when I was on a grant making
1:54
committee. And you're one of the organizers
1:58
and storytellers with YABO, you broadcasting organization.
2:02
Do you want? To.
2:03
Tell shout out, shout out, shout out, Friends of the pod.
2:06
Do you want to talk a little bit about like your how you got into
2:10
storytelling, how you got into being on the mic?
2:13
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'd say like officially
2:18
at least in like the podcast realm, probably starting like
2:22
sophomore year of college, I was working with my college
2:27
scholarship foundation, the Denver Scholarship Foundation,
2:30
and they just had a bunch of like volunteering events and
2:34
opportunities. And one of them just happened to
2:36
be pretty much an event with Yevo.
2:39
And so I signed up, didn't really know what I was getting
2:42
into. It was like this kind of really
2:45
vague storytelling event and I was like that what can come from
2:51
it? What harm can be done by it?
2:53
What could go wrong? And now we are here basically
2:57
like four years after doing podcast.
2:59
Amazing. But yeah, no, I did their first
3:04
kind of mixtape series and was talking about journeys less
3:07
taken or journeys less traveled. So like times that you've taken
3:12
a path not essentially the the most normal or the most, I don't
3:17
know, straightforward. Yeah.
3:19
And so that was really my step into podcast work.
3:24
And then from there, I've kind of like stayed pretty much in
3:26
that realm of podcasts on their side.
3:29
Cool. I've always been interested with
3:31
like animation, YouTube, story channels and things of that
3:34
sort. So that's awesome.
3:35
I've only had a little bit of like a periphery interest on it.
3:40
But yeah, I'd say yeah, probably around like 2022-2023, a little
3:44
bit towards like the cusp of the pandemic when I really started
3:47
getting into it. That's so cool.
3:49
That's so cool. And for for the listeners, guess
3:52
what? We gave them the grant.
3:54
Hey I'm finding this out now. Wish I could say that I planned
4:01
that I didn't, but but anyway, if anyone listening or watching
4:06
wants to get involved with Diebo, I'll put information in
4:08
the show notes. Too.
4:09
Yes, would highly recommend. They rock.
4:12
They're so cool teaching and helping youth really, like, tell
4:16
their own stories. Yeah, yeah.
4:18
Like it's all about that empowerment of like being able
4:22
to tell your story on how you want to.
4:24
And honestly like for the first storytelling experience, having
4:30
that control and having that power to just tell the story
4:33
that I want to the way I want to.
4:35
It's completely changed my view first on stories, but also like
4:39
my own identity and own story. So highly recommend.
4:42
Obviously you're going to have the links and all that stuff in
4:45
the bottom, whatever, but. Yeah, yeah.
4:47
Oh, and I'll put the I'll put the link to the the mix tape
4:50
episodes that you were on. Too.
4:52
Thank you for checking it out, I appreciate.
4:54
It Yeah, everybody go check it out, but only after you listen
4:58
to this episode. Don't go anywhere, yeah.
5:00
We're talking about Spider Man today.
5:02
We're talking about Spider Man today.
5:03
We're not here just to talk about everyone else's story.
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We're here to talk about Peter Parker's story.
5:08
OK, so sorry, my computer's telling me that I don't know my
5:15
password and I'm pretty, I'm pretty desperate for my notes on
5:19
this episode. But first, go ahead and tell me
5:21
about your history with Spider Man.
5:24
Oh my gosh, my history with Spider Man.
5:26
It it is a a long drawn out, strong, interconnected story.
5:35
Spider Man. Just to start this off, Spider
5:37
Man is my favorite superhero of all time and cool.
5:41
I say that for so many different reasons, but I think, at least
5:45
for me, it's the fact that I can relate to him so much.
5:49
OK, tell me more about that. Doesn't matter what spider man
5:52
you talking about dude. Andrew Garfield, Tobey Maguire,
5:56
like whoever you talking about. It's the sense of being young in
6:00
a world and diving into things and really like not knowing what
6:05
you're doing but doing it regardless.
6:07
Doing it anyway. Exactly.
6:09
And so I think like, at a young age, I could peep like, just
6:12
that young kind of youthful energy that Spiderman gives.
6:16
Yeah. He's like one of the youngest
6:18
superheroes I can really name off the top of my head, other
6:20
than like some of like the OGOG ones, but like one of those
6:24
superheroes that you can tell like, Oh yeah, this is like a 20
6:27
year old or like this is like a 151617 year old just in that
6:32
mode of like figuring out life. And so for me, that's like one
6:36
of the reasons why Spider Man has been one of my favorite
6:39
superheroes. On top of that, all the video
6:42
games we're talking about, like Game 2 video game, the Spider
6:45
Man video games on Xbox. Yeah, even like the new ones
6:49
upcoming or not even upcoming, but like the last PS-5 Miles
6:53
Morales games. Like we talking fun games, we
6:57
talking about identity games like.
6:59
Yeah, yeah. OK, I love that.
7:01
I love that. I OK, so I have a bit of a bit
7:04
of a hot take, a little bit of a contrarian view to share here.
7:07
So friend of the pod David Bowie, shout out.
7:10
He was on the podcast about a year ago and we were talking
7:13
about like some of the pitfalls of nerd culture.
7:17
And he's like, here's the thing about nerd culture, just like,
7:20
you know, a lot of it involves like having to buy stuff.
7:25
You got to like buy the games, you got to buy the media.
7:27
If you don't have every comic book on Spider Man, like you're
7:31
a poser. But then like someone's like,
7:34
well, why can't Spider Man be black?
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And then all of a sudden they have a lot of a lot of things to
7:41
say about that. I'm wondering, like, what do you
7:44
think about, I don't know, like, like, what's your experience in
7:48
kind of like comic book culture, like superhero culture, Yeah.
7:52
You know. No, that's a great question.
7:54
I feel like it's been an off and on relationship.
7:58
I feel like the comics I had gotten into at a young age
8:02
weren't comics I bought or that my parents bought, but we're
8:05
strictly from the library. Like that's.
8:08
Awesome library. Out Public Library.
8:09
Shouts out Public Library like the boy was doing like the
8:12
summer reading programs, like getting the real getting into it
8:17
while I could at that age. And so I feel like that's kind
8:21
of where my comic book relationship kind of started is
8:25
mostly in libraries rather than buying it.
8:29
I was raised in the household of like, if you ain't got the
8:31
money, you ain't going to buy it, right.
8:35
And my mom, she ain't trying to buy like 50, sixty, $70.00 worth
8:39
of comic books that I'm probably going to read and like.
8:42
A day or two, yeah. And then they will sit on your
8:44
shelf forever. Forever like and so I guess for
8:48
me, like the nerd, I guess realm or aesthetic never specifically
8:54
was collecting collecting like a cherry on top, but like the
8:59
sense of it was really just like knowing what's going on, knowing
9:02
the story, knowing the characters.
9:04
That's cool. Like my brother was super and is
9:07
super currently into Star Wars and like just the fact that he
9:13
was like he was reading the chapter books on like these
9:16
characters that you've never saw in the movies.
9:19
He was playing the video games that like nobody had heard of.
9:22
Like so it was never about like what did I have to show to prove
9:26
I was a nerd? It was like, what do I know
9:29
about this character? What do I know about this series
9:31
or this idea? That's cool, that proves that I
9:33
actually like this. OK, that's super cool.
9:36
And I feel like God with things that are in the, I know that
9:40
this isn't like a Marvel Cinematic Universe movie, it's
9:44
not Canon. But like in the Marvel, for lack
9:47
of a better word, universe, there are so many fucking
9:51
characters. There's so many different things
9:54
that you can, you can go on all these different.
9:59
Oh my God, even it even just in this movie.
10:01
So today we're talking about Spider Man 3.
10:03
Even just in this movie there's like 5 villains and one of them
10:10
is Peter Parkers inner demons for God's sake.
10:14
Yeah, Oh my gosh. You know, talk like, talk about.
10:18
It talk about villains my God, but like I I feel like for me,
10:25
I've always really liked spider man 2 like out of all of the
10:28
marvel characters, I feel like Black Panther and spider man are
10:32
kind of the ones that I've really leaned towards the most.
10:35
I like Iron Man 2 as well, but like I'm not, I'm not like super
10:40
well versed in superhero movies, but I like that I like them as
10:43
much as everybody else. Right.
10:46
But the thing that I like about Spider Man, I think is that it
10:48
was, it just like felt more accessible than some of the
10:53
other stories. Like you didn't, I didn't have
10:55
to know like all of this lore to understand like what's going on.
11:01
Like even, I mean, I watched Spider Man 3 a couple nights
11:06
ago, didn't rewatch the first and second one because I was
11:09
like, well, I remember basically what happened.
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And like I didn't have to, I didn't have to have like all of
11:15
the details just to understand like this is a story about
11:18
forgiveness. You know what I'm saying?
11:19
Like it's kind of a basic like you.
11:22
Didn't have to go through like the Disney Plus series to get
11:25
caught up on the last movie to then get to the next movie.
11:29
Yeah, I'm not like, I'm not like with a bulletin board with
11:31
string, like trying to put the pieces together to be like, OK,
11:35
I get it. Like I got what's going on.
11:37
And that I really enjoy as a person who famously doesn't
11:41
really like super long movies. Yeah, it.
11:45
Was one of the longer movies for superhero.
11:48
Yeah, yeah. But it's still like it doesn't
11:51
feel terribly long, this one. Like it it moves to me.
11:56
There's a couple of parts where I'm like, even we could, we
11:59
probably should have spent a little more time on this.
12:01
Like when. Oh yeah, when like the amnesia
12:05
all of a sudden is just gone. When it's like Harry.
12:08
Can remember everything now. I'm like, we could have spent
12:11
three more minutes. 5 minutes to be like, yeah, no, I'm back on
12:14
that action. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
12:17
But one thing that that I learned yesterday or actually I
12:21
already knew, but I remembered yesterday, my sister reminded
12:23
me, I went over to her house just to hang out and, and she
12:28
was like, oh, what? Like what are you up to this
12:30
week? And I said, I'm going to going
12:32
to talk about spider man 3 with my new friend.
12:34
And she said, Oh my God, Spider man 3.
12:36
That was the first time I ever smoked weed.
12:38
Was at the movie theater. Seen spider Man oh today.
12:41
Yeah. She said she was scared.
12:45
Actually watching that movie and having that experience at the
12:48
same time, yeah, that could be that could be a.
12:50
Lie when you're like, yeah, she was, she was in high school,
12:53
poor thing. But my niece, who's three years
12:55
old also is really into the original Spider Man.
12:59
Like the not the original, the the Tobey Maguire first Spider
13:02
Man. It was just playing in the
13:04
background a couple weeks ago at my sister's house and like she
13:08
was just locked in. So when I got to her house, lo
13:12
and behold, she was like, yeah, we're watching Spider man
13:15
watching it with you. And I was like, that's amazing.
13:18
My 3 year old niece. Great taste is.
13:21
Generation No is generation no. Exactly.
13:26
OK, well for how do you feel about spiders, Michael?
13:30
On a personal level, like if I'm being honest, I I've had to
13:37
separate spider man from actual spiders.
13:40
Absolutely. To be fair, I don't really have
13:42
like a hostile relationship against spiders.
13:45
Sure. It's just one of those things
13:46
where I'm like, I can appreciate what you do.
13:49
But I don't want to. See it?
13:50
I don't want to see it. I don't want to see it.
13:52
Keep eating the mosquitoes. Keep eating the flies.
13:54
Do what you got to do. But if I see a spider in my bed,
13:57
yeah, I'm freaking out. Yeah, of course I'm freaking
13:59
out. And like, the webs seem really
14:01
cool when it's like Peter Parker and Mary Jane, like laying there
14:04
looking at the stars, being all romantic, you see a spider web.
14:07
You ain't laying in that, You ain't touching that.
14:10
Disgusting webs are disgusting. I'm sorry.
14:14
I know that they're like magic and nature and stuff.
14:16
Like, I know that I should be just awestruck, but they're
14:19
gross. They're.
14:19
Gross. Yeah, I think that's the cool
14:21
thing about Spiderman. It like it takes something you
14:24
think of like cobwebs, right, Right.
14:26
It's something like decrepit, something like from a scary
14:29
movie, and it somehow flips it on its head to be like,
14:32
actually, no, this is like a cool like urban.
14:36
Like. Superhero type thing, which is
14:38
dope to me. I'm like, yeah, you would never
14:40
think of spiders in that sense. And I think that's why I
14:43
appreciate spider man because I, I don't necessarily love
14:46
spiders, right? But I love spider man like it's.
14:48
Totally. It's like, OK, not everyone
14:51
loves bats, but people love Batman.
14:54
Batman, I mean, he is kind of like, I mean, to me, he's sort
14:57
of norm core in a way that like Spider Man is sort of like, I
15:01
mean, but anyway, they don't the spiders do not, the spiders do
15:06
not define him. And I appreciate that.
15:09
I appreciate that we don't have to spend a lot of time in like
15:12
spider goo. And stuff, yeah.
15:16
Anyway, one thing that really struck me re watching this movie
15:21
as an adult is that like really with any superhero movie or
15:27
action movie that I watch now that I'm like, you know, I'm 31.
15:32
I think about things like homeowners associations, taxes,
15:36
insurance. I always think when there's all
15:39
this destruction, who's going to pay for that?
15:42
Anytime they just like boom, run into a building and it crumbles,
15:47
they're throwing cars. The.
15:49
Crane scene where it's just tearing up a part of.
15:51
Building. I'm like, who's paying for that?
15:55
It can't imagine insuring a home or an office building in the era
16:01
of like. You just paid off your car and
16:06
get thrown by the poke. Oh.
16:08
My God, yeah, that's going to be.
16:09
I mean, the bureaucracy, the paperwork, I'm just like, it's
16:13
really who's paying for this? No, honestly, that's one thing
16:18
that I feel like new superhero movies or like shows are
16:21
actually doing more is like getting that kind of slice of
16:23
life. Yeah.
16:25
Part of the superheroes being like, oh, yeah.
16:27
Like now the government, the local government is being like,
16:30
so you destroyed half of the city block.
16:33
Who's paying? Yeah.
16:36
My God having. Like superhero insurance claims
16:39
like that is now a thing in superhero shows and movies, and
16:43
that's the thing we missed back then.
16:45
But I love having that. Absolutely, yeah.
16:46
I mean, I guess enough people have asked.
16:48
A lot of people have asked the question.
16:50
I. Realistic.
16:51
Yeah, be realistic, OK? I can suspend disbelief that a,
16:57
you know, a man could turn into a spider, but I cannot suspend
17:01
disbelief when it comes to taxpayer money on these public.
17:04
Control apartment building falling down like that was just
17:07
equitable housing. And who's going to fix it,
17:12
right? Oh.
17:14
My God. OK, so, so I need to, I need to
17:17
backtrack a little bit and ask you about your your feelings
17:21
about the trilogy overall. So Spider Man 3 is your favorite
17:24
1. You say, OK, which is an
17:25
interesting take because that's kind of not the common take.
17:29
This was sort of the the underdog of the three.
17:33
I mean, retrospectively a lot more critics have been like, OK
17:35
maybe it was really underrated, but I'm curious what makes
17:39
Spider Man 3 your? Favorite the trilogy out of the
17:42
trilogy. Honestly, it was it just has
17:45
some of those iconic parts that as a kid when I saw it, mind
17:50
you, I'm 22, about to be 23. So like when I saw this, it
17:54
would have been like, I was probably like 7-8 years old at
17:57
this for the first time. Yeah, yeah, when I saw that
18:00
movie, I was like, Spider Man is dope.
18:02
Yeah, I and, and I know people don't judge me on this.
18:07
I had seen the emo spider man movie or emo spider man scenes
18:12
and like ages of seven and eight.
18:14
I was like, oh, he cool. Oh, he's slick, 'cause I didn't
18:18
have no connotation of like what emo even meant.
18:20
That's all incredible. Yeah, I was like, this is so
18:24
cool. The music also the symbiote,
18:28
like all the aspects of that movie, it just, it made me
18:32
remember it more than the other ones.
18:34
So cool. And so that's the reason why
18:37
that's my favorite one. Not to say that I didn't love
18:40
Spider Man 1 and 2. Spider Man 3 was just the one
18:43
that really stuck in my stuck in my mental.
18:46
I could like be like, I remember that scene.
18:47
I remember that scene. I remember that scene.
18:49
I could probably quote it. Yeah, verbatim.
18:51
Totally and that like that like emo Peter Parker, like Bully
18:56
McGuire meme thing. I mean honestly is one of my
18:59
favorite things about the entire franchise is like the memes that
19:02
continue and that's what honestly he gave spider man 3 so
19:07
much staying power is the fact that like he was emo.
19:13
Yeah, yeah. And especially for like those
19:16
older type of movies, I think like having that humorous like,
19:20
oh, we can make memes about it now that keeps something
19:22
relevant. Like you can have great movies
19:25
that are old having you know who, depending on who you're
19:30
talking to, of course, quote UN quote, great movies.
19:33
I I think spider man 3 is a great movie, but having that
19:36
humorous part and having it connect with like modern
19:39
culture, like just like even SpongeBob means like stuff like
19:43
that. That just stays.
19:45
I think I have more of an appreciation of because I can
19:48
have both the perspective when I watch that, as well as coming
19:53
back to and be like, Oh, this is this might have corny parts, but
19:56
I'm still laughing at it. Like totally.
19:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like it definitely.
20:01
It makes me forgive some of the more outdated, like CGI.
20:06
So you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, this, this,
20:11
this was a time, this was 2007. Like my.
20:14
I'm able to take my expectations a little bit lower and think of
20:18
it in the context of like the time instead of comparing it to.
20:22
All the newer, yeah. Yeah.
20:25
And OK, the other thing too, is that like in 2007, we Marvel
20:32
wasn't releasing a new superhero movie every month, you know what
20:37
I'm saying? So like, it's still, I don't
20:39
think that we had the same like superhero fatigue that we do
20:43
now. And so there was something, I
20:47
think that there's something sort of timeless about that,
20:50
about that, like that moment when this trilogy was still
20:55
really special. Yeah.
20:56
Yeah, and they're doing something new with it.
20:58
Like we we get the privilege now to look at all the different
21:03
types of Spider Man's we've seen.
21:05
We've seen Miles Morales, we've seen Tom Holland, we've seen
21:08
Andrew Garfield in all different ways of portraying this one idea
21:14
and Spider Man 32 one the whole trilogy.
21:19
This was the first time where really the comic books were seen
21:24
on the big screen. Now we can talk about the shows.
21:27
Cool, cool, cool. But to have it for a large
21:30
audience, yeah, think about movies.
21:32
They're super accessible to people who just want to watch
21:35
something new. Yes.
21:36
And that's what Spider Man, at least the Spider Man trilogy,
21:39
that's what he was doing. And so that's where I get
21:41
appreciation for how iconic it was, how timeless it was.
21:45
It's just because it was that new concept of like, what does
21:48
Spiderman look like one in a movie?
21:51
Totally, totally. They're like, we'll take this
21:54
handsome Hollywood man and we'll put glasses on him because he's
21:57
a nerd. He is a nerd.
22:01
He is a nerd. That's what we love about it.
22:03
Exactly. OK, I also, I love one thing I
22:06
love about Spider Man 3 is that they brought in Topher Grace to
22:11
be the villain when like like everybody thought that they were
22:15
the same guy. Like everyone would always mix
22:17
the two of them up. I was like, I can't believe that
22:18
they actually did that, that they brought him in.
22:20
That is funny as fuck, dude. That's so funny.
22:24
You need that back to like how iconic it can be when it's
22:27
humorous. When you start to mix people up,
22:30
you start to you remember things a little bit.
22:32
Exactly. Exactly.
22:33
OK, Speaking of mixing things up, Thomas Hayden Church I,
22:37
every time I say his name, I say it differently.
22:39
I say Hayden, Thomas Church, Hayden Hayden Church Thomas I I
22:44
take any way that you can mix up those three.
22:47
I will do it. I do not blame you.
22:53
I did eventually have to look it up.
22:55
I was like, what's that guy's name?
22:56
Church Hayden. Hayden.
22:58
Hayden to Tom to the to the churches Church the 5th.
23:04
Hayden. It's just like if you have three
23:06
names and they all could kind of be a first, a middle or a last
23:09
name. It's it gets, it gets confused.
23:10
Can you blame me? It gets confused.
23:12
OK, So what do you like about Peter Parker other than he's a
23:15
nerd? What do you like about him?
23:17
He's real. That's that's the one thing that
23:21
I love is the authenticity of Peter Parker.
23:25
Like, strip away Spider Man from Peter Parker.
23:29
You got somebody who's dealing with the crazy love life.
23:32
Yeah. Dealing with the crazy career
23:34
life, had a family death, is trying to figure out how to cope
23:39
with having one of your biggest role models taken away from you.
23:42
Yeah. As well as trying to figure out
23:45
friendship life as well. Like.
23:46
Yeah. It's just a very.
23:48
He's a very well-rounded character in the sense of he
23:51
does show what human life is, especially in like New York City
23:56
at the age that he's at. Like it's just so authentic that
23:59
you can't, you can't take away his authenticity.
24:02
Totally. Yeah.
24:02
And it's like it's all happening at the same time.
24:05
And that's one of the one of the criticisms of Spider Man 3 is
24:08
that they're like, there's too many plot points, like there's
24:10
too much going on. But that's, that's life, dude.
24:13
That's that's life is like, you're gonna propose to your
24:17
girlfriend and then and then like, all this stuff goes crazy.
24:20
Somebody died. You're trying to get revenge.
24:22
You're fighting your inner demons.
24:24
Your homeboy got a crush on you? Yeah.
24:27
Exactly, You're going through a friendship break up, like it all
24:29
happens at the same time. It's not neat and all of that.
24:33
But like, you know, does that mean that we should always tell
24:36
stories that are chaotic? No, but I did find it to be, you
24:40
know, for a for a story that is, you know, a superhero movie.
24:48
It's still. It's very human.
24:50
It's very human. It's very.
24:52
Human, exactly. Yeah, that's that's what I like
24:54
about him too. And I like, I don't know, I'm a
24:56
real sucker for, like, the superheroes that have to, like,
25:00
fight their inner demons. Like, that's why I like Iron
25:03
Man. I like the ones where it's like
25:05
they're kind of troubled. Yeah.
25:08
Superheroes have trauma, too. Exactly, exactly.
25:12
I like when they kind of like, you know, they have to overcome
25:15
their own darkness. Oh yeah.
25:18
And even though like in Spider Man 3, it's sort of like, OK,
25:21
the dark suit and like Venom and all of that, it's like a little
25:24
bit, not a little. It's incredibly heavy-handed.
25:27
It's like, oh, the dark suit means that he's it's a dark
25:30
character. He's bad now, like.
25:35
It's unknowable. I still am.
25:38
Like, I don't know. I, I like that in spite of the
25:42
fact that there are real external villains like Sandman,
25:47
like, you know, it's just, it's cool to see this, this trilogy
25:54
wrap up with him overcoming the troubles that he's having in his
25:58
own mind and like, in his heart, you know what I mean?
26:00
Yeah, I mean, that was one of the biggest things that I kind
26:04
of remember about the movie is just how symbolic every single
26:08
scene, every single character was into Peter's situation.
26:12
Totally. You look at the the black suit,
26:16
something crazy out of the ordinary new yeah.
26:20
And feeling that ego that comes with like, yo, I'm I'm the new
26:23
big thing. I'm spider man Totally.
26:26
I'm black spider man re answer that.
26:30
Excuse me, Spider man can't be black.
26:32
Oh, oh, watch out for black Twitter, alright, I'm.
26:39
Getting. Everybody here, Donald Glover, I
26:41
know you can. Big fan of the pod.
26:44
Donald Glover, close friend of the pod.
26:47
Come on the show. Oh, man.
26:51
Yeah, for real. It's like this was this was
26:56
really a story of him versus himself.
27:00
But then they also threw in. A a lot of stuff they they threw
27:04
in a lot. I feel like some of the biggest
27:07
themes that I saw in that movie were family on every single
27:11
level, like everybody was dealing with something with
27:13
family. Oh.
27:14
My God, Harry to literally Sandman to Peter himself.
27:20
Like everybody had some sort of family dynamic going on, which
27:25
in a sense I'd argue almost 100% of the time would motivate some
27:30
sort of movement of the character, some sort of
27:32
influence, some sort of motive for them throughout the entire
27:37
movie. And I'd also say whole trilogy,
27:39
but. Yeah, totally, totally.
27:41
Yeah. OK.
27:42
One thing, though, I will say about family and motivations
27:45
that kind of cracked me up is that when Gwen is in a dire
27:51
situation, the police chief's daughter, OK, she's, she's
27:55
fighting for her life. Hanging off the railing.
27:58
She's hanging off the railing when a crane just came into the
28:02
building where she is like. Modeling.
28:06
Modeling owner. Yeah.
28:08
And the police chief, her dad looks up through his, like,
28:13
binoculars and goes, oh, no, no reaction.
28:17
No, like, no, he's not screaming.
28:20
He's not like, that's my daughter.
28:22
He's not freaking out. And and Topher Grace's
28:25
character, he's like dating her. And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm
28:28
dating your daughter. Oh, and she's up there.
28:30
No idea. Proceeds to take a photo of said
28:34
daughter hanging off. Yeah.
28:36
I'm like, I, I, I swear to God, if my dad saw me through
28:40
binoculars looking up at me hanging off of a building and he
28:45
goes, Oh, no, Oh no. Maybe that's like an acceptance
28:51
of him being like she's going to die or or just really bad
28:57
unhealthy family dynamics. Which you know, he's like I'm,
29:01
I'm a leader. I am not going to show any.
29:04
Face. So like.
29:09
Jeez. Yeah, yeah, that.
29:11
That cracked me up. Honestly, I thought that was
29:15
wild. Yeah, no, completely.
29:18
Another thing that's kind of related, but kind of under
29:21
related, like every single time MJ got into a situation which we
29:26
could literally go down a whole rabbit hole of that.
29:30
Totally. I felt so bad, yeah.
29:32
Looking through every interaction, like, oh, my God.
29:35
Put into a dangerous situation. Physically, yeah, Emotionally,
29:40
so much stuff has happened. Oh.
29:41
My God. Getting proposed to.
29:44
Yeah. While you just lost your career
29:46
and now you oh. My God.
29:52
She got trouble. She.
29:53
Shows up to work to learn that she's been replaced.
29:56
Yeah. In the middle of the rehearsal.
29:59
Yeah. This movie has so much drama.
30:01
Oh. My God, the drama, the drama.
30:03
And then she's like, so ashamed and that she doesn't even have a
30:07
chance to tell anybody. And she's like.
30:11
She going through it and then gets kidnapped and then gets
30:15
like. Not only that, she's she's been
30:18
emotionally manipulated as well. She's not just been physically
30:20
kidnapped, she's being emotionally manipulated by
30:23
Harry, but he's also, you know, going.
30:26
Yeah. How the?
30:28
Trauma is contagious. It's running through everybody.
30:34
Everyone needs to really dig into their trauma, and boy do
30:39
they. Oh, Oh yes.
30:41
Can you? I can't remember which character
30:44
says it. I think that it's like the the
30:47
scientist that that Peter brings the.
30:52
Oh yeah, Doctor Connors. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:53
Doctor Connors, he's like, look, when things, these things in
30:57
nature bind you talking about venom, they tend to be hard to
31:01
unbind. And I'm like.
31:05
We talking about, we talking about alien.
31:08
Are we talking human beings? Because.
31:11
I know I'm like you. There's a lot.
31:15
I think that you've got a lot more binding to you than just
31:19
this creepy alien goo. Completely.
31:22
Completely. Man the layers and layers and
31:26
layers. But you.
31:28
Know I also, I think that one thing I like about Spider Man 3
31:32
two is that it gives us a chance to be kind of mad at Peter
31:35
Parker when he kisses Gwen. I forgot about that scene.
31:41
And rewatching that, I was like, he a madman.
31:45
He's a madman in front of your, in front of your.
31:49
It was one of those things where I was like, Oh my gosh, this,
31:53
this is Spider Man on an ego trip.
31:55
Yeah, on the biggest ego trip. And I didn't even remember that.
31:58
Probably as a young kid, 'cause you young kid.
32:00
But seeing this I was like, bro, what are you doing?
32:04
Your girl is, you know she's watching in.
32:07
Front of the old girl and you not not only did you do it, but
32:10
you advocated it for it he. Was the one that brought it up.
32:13
He was like, you wanna, you wanna kiss me, plant one on me
32:16
and then. The crowds gonna love it.
32:18
You ain't doing it for the crowd.
32:19
First off. Yeah, First off.
32:21
And if you are, that's a Dick move.
32:23
And if she wasn't pretty, I know you wouldn't be doing that.
32:26
Yeah, she's pretty girl. So.
32:28
And it's your classmate and it's your classmate.
32:30
She don't even know that That's, that's the, the layers, the, the
32:34
layers, the deception and the manipulation.
32:37
The, the, the, the, the, the straight disrespect.
32:40
Yeah. I was like.
32:41
That made me more mad than when we thought that he killed
32:44
somebody like. Yeah, I was like, at least when
32:47
you we thought you killed somebody, it kind of had some
32:50
sort of slight justification. I can't.
32:53
I can't excuse you now that I can't justify you now.
32:56
We. Can't ride for you when you are
32:58
kissing another girl on the mouth.
33:03
Like Kanye, you only get a certain amount of excuses and
33:08
look. Look, look, look.
33:10
But I like that. I like that we had a chance to
33:13
be kind of mad at him. You.
33:14
Know. So that when he did come back,
33:16
we're like, OK, he's back to who he is.
33:18
He's actually trying to improve back to showing the human parts
33:22
of superheroes. Exactly.
33:24
I think especially with that type of movie it it shows First
33:28
off for how shitty superheroes can be.
33:31
Totally. Also on the reverse end, how
33:34
crazy the backstories can be for quote, UN quote antagonist.
33:38
Yeah, First off, obviously first example is Sandman, right?
33:43
Having to do all these crazy things to essentially say your
33:47
daughter, like, yeah, yeah, he's a relatable character of like,
33:49
sure, yo, of course, at some extent, yeah, we got to say
33:53
like, hey, what we doing? But like, you're doing it for a
33:55
right 'cause you're not a bad human being.
33:57
Actually mean to kill Uncle Ben? Yeah.
34:00
You learned it was an accident. On an accident.
34:02
Yeah. Just because, bro, it was like
34:04
all of that. It just makes it's bringing out
34:07
the humans of all these different things that we don't
34:09
really see in superhero movies. Honestly, I feel like a lot,
34:14
especially back then because we've seen so many like new
34:16
movies, like these concepts are getting like changed and kind of
34:20
just played with all around, which is cool.
34:22
Yeah. But back then, it's like you're
34:25
pretty much a evil villain because you just hate people.
34:28
That's just the reason you're a superhuman.
34:31
You're a super cool, good superhero just because you're a
34:35
good human. Because that's just how you.
34:37
Are that's just how you are and that's it?
34:39
Yeah. You're either good or bad.
34:41
No one between and, Yeah. That's why, you know, I really
34:45
do like a villain origin story. I love a villain origin story
34:50
because I want to know why you're like that.
34:52
Yeah. And there are, I think now, you
34:56
know, sometimes I think in in media, we've swung too far to
34:59
the other end of the pendulum where everyone's an anti hero.
35:02
And I'm like, OK, you need someone to like, yeah.
35:05
I I do like I like a villain origin story.
35:09
I like a complicated hero. I like, I like, I like somebody
35:15
who we can root for but who feels like a human who has
35:20
faults that they need to overcome.
35:23
And that's like my favorite type of heroes.
35:24
Journey is the one where people like have to overcome something
35:27
within themselves, you know? What I mean, I mean, because
35:30
like, at the end of the day, I think a lot of this, honestly,
35:34
I'd argue like, this is one of those movies that starts tapping
35:36
into mental health. And obviously, like, we're in
35:40
the generation where mental health is being talked about in
35:43
every single corner. But back then, I feel like it
35:46
wasn't as much. And so this was like one of
35:48
those times where it's like, Oh, yeah.
35:49
Like when you're going through a lot of different things, you're
35:52
probably not going to make the best decisions.
35:54
You probably are going to do some crazy stuff to justify
35:58
saving your family or justify, you know, getting a new job or
36:02
to justify being a Dick in a black.
36:05
Yeah, Spiderman costume, whatever it be.
36:07
Yeah. But a lot of these things just
36:10
to see like, yo, this isn't just coming from nowhere.
36:15
There needs to be some sort of analysis.
36:17
There needs to be some sort of reflection.
36:19
And I feel like this movie does it so beautifully.
36:22
Yeah, It really makes us question like, where is the
36:25
line? Like when When Aunt May is like
36:27
yeah but it's crazy because Spider Man doesn't kill.
36:30
People. Yeah, And he's sort of like,
36:32
wait, I thought that you'd be happy.
36:35
And she's like, no, because people with revenge in their
36:38
heart, they turn into something ugly.
36:40
I don't know if you heard. And he's like, oh shit, she's
36:44
not happy. About it, I messed up, yeah.
36:46
No, no. And it's like we kind of as an
36:50
audience have to think like, OK, well, where is that line between
36:53
like getting, getting even and. Doing too much.
36:59
Doing too much. Doing too much.
37:01
Because it is really sad as I mean, that's the point of a
37:03
superhero movie is it's really satisfying to see a bad guy get
37:07
defeated. Yeah.
37:08
But it's like, when does it go too far and when is it just,
37:12
like, self-serving? Yeah, you know.
37:15
It like, literally, that's honestly, I feel like 110% of
37:18
the movie, it's just people figuring out like, to what
37:21
extent are my feelings actually valid?
37:24
And whether you look at Harry, whether you look at Peter
37:27
Parker, like from Harry's perspective, he's like, bro, my
37:30
dad just died. Yeah.
37:32
And the person, my closest homie, yeah, killed my dad.
37:38
Like, yeah, to even process that.
37:41
My God. And then on top of that, like
37:44
you're using all these, like, new chemicals and stuff like
37:47
that. Like, yeah, might be symbolic of
37:49
drugs. Look, all I'm saying is you're
37:53
going through it and you're trying to process all these
37:55
crazy emotions, and you want to feel valid.
37:58
Yeah. Every single person is trying to
37:59
feel valid in a certain way from Peter feeling like yo, like I'm,
38:04
I'm Spider man, I'm saving people.
38:06
I should be able to film myself a little bit and then to an
38:09
extreme. Obviously that's that's not a
38:11
great thing. Right, exactly.
38:13
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That line is so blurry.
38:17
And like we're figuring out at the same time as the characters.
38:22
All right, Speaking of Speaking of blurry lines.
38:26
We talk about next. We talk about next.
38:29
We got to talk about James Franco.
38:30
OK, but. We got to talk about James
38:32
Franco. So James Franco playing Harry,
38:34
he's one of the leads in this film.
38:36
Well, OK. Well, I I will say first of all,
38:38
that I do really love a friendship breakup in a movie
38:41
because that's like not depicted as much as romantic breakups.
38:44
Of course, I love, I love like a a friendship tension.
38:49
I think that that's great to capture.
38:52
And there's friction between two parties that really you
38:55
shouldn't have. Yeah, exactly.
38:57
Exactly. Like when things, when friends
38:59
have a falling out, it's like that can be so much more painful
39:03
than a romantic. Yeah, totally.
39:05
So love that they depicted that James Franco, you know, at this
39:09
time, we didn't know that he was going to become the problematic
39:16
person that he is today that we know that he is today.
39:20
I mean, honestly, but like I was, I was in junior high when
39:23
this came out. So like, I definitely didn't
39:25
know I. Was like I was 8 years old I
39:29
didn't even know this is celebrities I just thought he's
39:32
just spider man and this is just green gap.
39:35
Right, exactly. You're like, wait, I thought
39:37
that he was hairy. Like, I thought that that's what
39:39
he actually was. Wait, he's like an actor.
39:42
He has a personality. Oh, oh, shoot.
39:44
Oh, wow. Weird.
39:47
But God, yeah, just like, that's sort of the sort of the point of
39:55
discomfort for me watching this back is being like, oh, man,
39:59
remember when we just didn't know about James Franco being a
40:04
piece of shit? Or maybe we maybe we did, but I
40:08
didn't. Yeah.
40:10
No, I think you in there. I think you in there.
40:12
And I think it's one of those things where it's like you try
40:17
to separate the art from the artist, but like when they're so
40:20
combined, it's just hard to. Totally.
40:23
And I think even nowadays, we still see examples of it with
40:28
talking about Miles Morales. Look, I didn't even go go down
40:31
that rabbit hole. And I'm like, this is one of my
40:33
favorite franchises. But it really does hurt to like,
40:36
see such a great story and see such great acting because it's
40:40
still, at the end of the day, like, quality acting.
40:43
Yeah. A quality movie, just not from
40:46
people making the most quality decisions.
40:48
And that's. Exactly.
40:49
That's where it starts to not align.
40:51
And yeah. I know, just a bummer.
40:55
And it's like it happens more and more as like as these movies
41:00
get older, as time goes on, it's like we discover who these these
41:06
like actors really are. And then you're like, man, it
41:10
really takes a lot of the fun out of it watching it.
41:13
So James Franco, fuck you for? That.
41:17
Ruining my fun. I know that there are.
41:20
People. I know that there are a lot of
41:24
other people who deserve to be more mad at you for a lot more,
41:28
but I'm my personal beef is that you made the experience of
41:32
watching Spider Man 3 be a little uncomfortable for me.
41:39
The art a little bit, it hurts. It hurts.
41:42
It hurts. It hurts.
41:44
OK what? What else really like stood out
41:48
to you? What do you got?
41:49
I see you got a. Bunch of notes you did, you did
41:52
your homework. I, I had to do a lot of work.
41:55
Honestly, there's a lot of things that stood out for me.
41:59
I I think this time watching it, I really focused on Sandman's
42:03
story, Flint, Marco and just seeing his family dynamic.
42:09
One quote that I had got from him that I was like, yo, this,
42:13
this encapsulates his entire character.
42:16
He said, I'm not a bad person. I just had bad luck and hearing
42:23
that over after seeing like everything that he was doing to
42:28
save his family. Honestly, like I don't even
42:31
think he really didn't even have beef with spider Man.
42:32
He just had beef with what Spider Man was preventing him
42:35
from doing. Exactly like.
42:38
Him in just every single situation and like even like the
42:42
literal sense of him being a Sandman and turning into sand or
42:46
just like you're trying to build up from whatever small crumbs.
42:49
Your life is from totally. Like just that symbolism, it
42:54
like hit different from me and I'm like, there's so many people
42:58
like that just in the world in general who could probably
43:00
relate to like, you know, I'm not trying to do this because I
43:03
want to. This is out of.
43:04
I have to. Yes and he's also like despite
43:08
the fact that he is this like strong monster, he's at the same
43:14
time so fragile he's literally sand like he could fall apart at
43:19
any second. You put you get water on him and
43:23
he and he's. Dirt done.
43:26
Done, done. And it's like, man, that's
43:30
that's such an interesting like juxtaposition of him being like,
43:35
you know, he can, he can like come out of the earth and be
43:38
like, but also, but also like a breeze comes by and he's done.
43:44
Like, yeah, back to like the symbolism of like, he is a
43:48
person who has to be hard in his life and like the literal
43:52
material of Sam being like hard, but then anything that softens
43:56
him up is his downfall. It's like, yeah, to be a father
44:00
trying to pay for your kid who needs medical expenses paid for
44:04
like a softened you is probably going to tear you down and your
44:09
family. So like that really hit for me
44:13
also just because like I think and this is like some chrono
44:18
crazy political commentary. I feel like slightly, slightly,
44:22
slightly different related, but just like understanding what is
44:27
criminalized and what is not and why it is and understanding the
44:30
histories of that. Like this could be an American
44:34
movie. I'm like, yeah, the fact that he
44:36
is trying to pay these medical bills, if this was place in a
44:41
different country in a different part, Yep.
44:44
Would Sandman exists? Right.
44:46
Sandman only exists in a world in which, like, you have to do
44:51
crime to pay for your sick kid. Sorry, crazy concept.
44:57
Sorry. That's the truth.
44:58
Yeah. So that was one thing, yeah.
45:01
Totally. Totally.
45:03
Again, it's like when you watch things as a grown up and you're
45:05
like, man, medical bills are expensive.
45:08
Yeah, I get it. Yeah.
45:11
Yeah. You're like, I'm understanding
45:14
these systems now and it's kind of messed up.
45:17
So you got to rob a bank? Yeah.
45:22
Full of a suitcase of money for a medical bill.
45:27
Crazy, crazy Only in America. Only in America.
45:30
But another thing I also wanted to point out that rewatching the
45:34
movie, it really kind of irked me was every time Peter was
45:40
taking MJS spotlight, I was like one of those movies where I was
45:43
like, Oh my gosh, yeah. Like, obviously he's having an
45:47
ego trip, but man, yeah, how shitty of the situation MJ is
45:52
going through. And at every single step of your
45:54
life, you're getting pretty much put in the shadows, right?
45:59
Like that. I know.
46:03
How do you feel about? It that was tough.
46:05
That was tough because it was like he he really, I think had
46:10
the best intention to relate to her when she's like, yeah,
46:16
people didn't like the Broadway show.
46:19
I got a bad review. And he's like, look, I get it.
46:22
Like people are always talking about me, Spider Man, and it's
46:27
and it's stressful. And she's like, no, this isn't
46:30
about you. And I'm kind of like, OK, she's
46:32
right. And also that's like the only
46:35
point of reference that he has. I think that he is really trying
46:38
to like relate to her and make her feel better and he's trying
46:41
to have empathy. But then it just like keeps
46:45
going and he's like only focused on himself.
46:48
He like truly cannot celebrate her and her success.
46:52
Like it's just. It's it's so terrible because I
46:59
feel like it, it shows just those toxic parts of
47:02
relationship next to like the slice of life part.
47:05
Yeah. When people don't have that
47:07
communication, things can go literally from zero to 100 real
47:15
quick. Totally.
47:16
And to be like, on such different ends, like the fact
47:20
that she's like, on the verge of just, like, pretty much breaking
47:22
down. Yeah.
47:23
And he's on the verge of proposing to her.
47:26
Oh my God. And that he like, doesn't see.
47:28
Doesn't she's like? Not in a place for that, Yeah,
47:32
truly. Yeah.
47:33
And that that part didn't even like really relate to the spider
47:35
man. I I was like, this is some crazy
47:38
drama stuff and I was all in it. I was excited to watch.
47:40
Totally like. Yeah, it would have been, it
47:42
would have been the same if he was just like some guy and she
47:47
was a person, like going through tough stuff in her career and in
47:51
her life and her boyfriend. It was just like la, la, la.
47:54
I only know about me. It would have been the same,
47:58
same pain, same tension, except that he is Spiderman so he got
48:03
to kiss his lab partner with the and and not just kiss her on a
48:08
stage, but the kiss. The kiss, the.
48:11
Kiss. And when she said that was our
48:13
kiss, I was like. I was like, you should be
48:17
angrier. Yeah.
48:18
He went on stage in front of everybody after specifically
48:22
telling you, hey, I'm a swing from this side.
48:25
Don't miss this. Don't miss this.
48:27
Don't miss this. Don't miss this.
48:30
Oh my. God.
48:32
He kissed it. Man, I'm getting all worked up
48:38
all over again. My God, for real.
48:41
That was some shitty shit. Yeah, that was honestly the
48:43
worst thing he's ever looked in my mind.
48:47
But then he also like, he refuses her help too, after all
48:50
that. Like she's trying to help him
48:54
even after he's hurt her. And he's like, no, I don't want
48:57
your help. It's like, OK, well, you were
48:59
just begging for her support before, and now she's offering
49:03
it. And he's like, no, yeah, there
49:05
is nothing more frustrating than that in relationships.
49:09
Haven't we all been there? When you're like, OK, so you're
49:13
like begging for my help and then I'm like, OK, I'm here to
49:15
help. And they're like, no, no, it's
49:17
too late. No, it's too late.
49:18
It's like you. Should have been trying to help
49:20
me. OK.
49:21
Immediately after, well, sorry, I was living my own life, going
49:23
through my own trials and tribulations.
49:24
What was I supposed to do anyway?
49:26
So I really, I really felt for her in that moment when he's
49:29
like, I don't want your help. I was like, OK, well, well, you
49:33
should want her help because you you need it.
49:37
OK. Yeah.
49:38
What else? What else do we do We need to
49:40
discuss about this 2 1/2 hour story?
49:43
Oh my God. Forgiveness.
49:46
I think there was a lot of parallel things happening.
49:49
Yeah, specifically a lot. I keep going back to both Peter
49:53
and Harry, both of them finding out like pretty much the role
49:59
models died, holding vengeance, and then at the end realizing oh
50:04
this was actually either accidental and part of Peter's
50:10
case or like this isn't what I thought happened.
50:13
Exactly, they they get more information and realize it's not
50:17
what they thought it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:18
And so I really thought that was dope.
50:20
I think honestly, that's kind of what brought them together at
50:24
the end. I think so too.
50:25
Like, yeah. And just like the the
50:27
brotherhood between them, like to have so much love for a
50:32
person, of course, when you were thinking they did something,
50:36
you're gonna have so much hatred totally towards them.
50:38
Yeah. So I really thought that was an
50:40
interesting kind of play on like friendship, like you said
50:43
before, like a dynamic that most movies don't really work on or
50:46
really see. Like they really, I think they
50:49
really did that well. I thought they did too.
50:51
Yeah, I thought it was cool to see how they both just kind of
50:54
had to like, get past their own hang ups in order to get to the
50:59
truth. The truth, you know.
51:01
The truth. Also the little the little
51:02
foreshadowing line when Harry's in the hospital and he's like,
51:06
I'd give my life for them. Oh my God, I didn't.
51:10
Peep it the first time. This time I was like, Yup, he's
51:13
like. I heard that.
51:14
Oh my God, I'm. Like Nah.
51:18
Oh my God, yeah, that was that was pretty wild.
51:22
Yeah, I I just got to say again, though, that like, it was
51:27
bizarre to me that there wasn't really any cause for him to just
51:32
not have amnesia anymore. Like when his dad comes to him
51:36
in a vision, he's like, oh, I remember everything.
51:39
It's like how? Did that happen?
51:42
That felt really rushed to me. I yeah, like, I hate to say, but
51:46
I wish they would have spent a few more minutes on it.
51:48
Wish they would have given us a little bit more like why did
51:51
this happen? I felt like the reason they kind
51:55
of tried to push it so quickly was because, like, I don't know
52:01
if they really had enough motivation to get him to
52:03
actually, yeah, really see that. Like, yeah, he's at the point
52:06
where he thinks life is fine, his homies are good.
52:09
He's apparently feeling MJ at this point, like everything is
52:15
going well in his life. Same thing, Yeah.
52:18
But parallel to Peter Parker, like they start off having
52:22
pretty much everything on the 10th, so everything's going
52:24
well. And so I think they it's kind of
52:27
one of those like rider cop outs where it's just like, so yeah,
52:32
everything's good. But like now we just want to
52:34
flip it on the head. Anytime that there is, I hate to
52:37
say this, but I'm going to. Anytime that there's amnesia in
52:40
a story, it's not that good of a story.
52:43
It's a cop out. It's a cop out.
52:45
Like I've never, sorry, never met a person who has experienced
52:50
amnesia. The way that you see it in
52:52
movies, you would think that it happens to just about anyone.
52:56
No, It's like. Light on my head.
52:59
Has a little bunk on the head and they're like, I forget who
53:02
my boyfriend is, who's my mom, who am I?
53:06
But then they still just kind of like go about life normally.
53:09
And then all of a sudden one day they wake up and they remember
53:12
everything. And then like, if you are using
53:14
amnesia in a story, listen to this.
53:17
If you're if you're thinking about writing a movie and you've
53:20
got an amnesia plot point, throw it away.
53:24
Throw it away do. Better Amnesia is the IT is the
53:30
hallmark of a lazy story. I'm sorry, but it is.
53:36
I mean, you do feel relief when Harry's like, yeah, I don't
53:39
remember anything from the recent past.
53:42
It's like it's a relief. We're like, OK, cool.
53:45
They can kind of start over. But but it's not.
53:49
It's like Amnesia is the fast food of character development.
53:54
You're just trying to get something in quick just so you
53:56
could, yeah, have something. Totally.
53:59
It's like it's just about efficiency.
54:02
It's just efficiency, but with no.
54:05
Without a lot of substance, no. Not a lot of flavour or nothing.
54:08
And I think I didn't really even think about that until you said
54:11
that now. But yeah, that's it doesn't
54:14
really go into that in depth. I think it's maybe like a two or
54:17
three minute scene where he goes from like everything chilling to
54:20
like, eventually looking in the mirror and be like, Oh no, yeah,
54:24
I hate this dude like. Totally.
54:25
Yeah. He's like, oh, it's all come
54:27
back, talk to me now. Yeah, yeah.
54:30
Yeah, so that's one thing that I think doesn't age great, but
54:34
man, people are still using amnesia as ballpoints.
54:37
And, you know, God bless if you have had amnesia.
54:40
I'm so sorry. Don't mean to do amnesia
54:43
erasure. They should represent y'all
54:46
better. Better representation.
54:49
I'm an advocate, OK? I'm an ally.
54:51
This. Conversation is going.
54:56
Oh my God. Yeah.
54:57
Where were we? OK, so.
54:59
So I want to wrap it up with this, Like, what?
55:03
What do you think makes this movie feel like it's 20 years
55:06
old? And what makes it feel like it's
55:09
timeless? I mean, we've talked about some
55:10
of these things, but like, let's kind of kind of wrap it up.
55:13
What do we think makes it feel old?
55:15
What makes it feel timeless? I think there's several things.
55:20
First, like probably the easiest one that comes to mind is just
55:25
the CGI. Yeah, like, yeah, it's, and it's
55:29
not even horrible because it's, I mean, relative.
55:32
I thought it was great at the time and obviously I was like a
55:34
7-8 year old, so who even knows? But looking back at it now, I
55:39
was like every fight scene that falls off the building last at
55:44
least a minute. Like.
55:46
Yep, seeing how the buildings are like lengthened out to give
55:50
them time to fight and do some crazy action scenes.
55:53
Like I will say I appreciate modern Movies Now for not doing
55:57
that as much. Obviously the slow embellishment
56:00
and stuff like that but like to the extent that they did it I
56:03
was like y'all been running through the same alley.
56:05
Total thing 5 minutes. When is the main?
56:08
Strongest. Alley.
56:09
World's longest alley. Like completely, completely.
56:12
It's like you would think that people could fall for several
56:16
minutes from one building. Yeah, yeah.
56:18
Yeah, so I probably have to say that I think also just like just
56:24
the aesthetic of the movie, like people's outfits to even just
56:28
like the way people like move and talk.
56:31
I'm like, yeah, Nah, this, this got to be this early 2000s type
56:35
by. Totally.
56:35
Totally. Yeah.
56:36
Yeah, to make it things that make it iconic.
56:42
I think a lot of it we already talked about the humor, the
56:45
memes, the the timeless type of comedy that he's had, like yeah,
56:52
yeah. Him sitting on his bed crying
56:54
like with that intense glare in pan that is never going to be
56:58
not funny like. Absolutely.
57:00
Yes, Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
57:02
Generations. Generations will know this is
57:05
the meme. Yeah, also just like black
57:10
Spiderman, I mean the new suit walking down like.
57:13
Totally the. Dancing bonds like nobody doing
57:17
that in 26. Like, totally, Unless they're
57:20
trying to be ironic. Totally.
57:23
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
57:24
Yeah. I agree.
57:27
I agree. You know, like Kirsten Dunst
57:30
with her side bangs and like you know, and, and Tobey Maguire
57:35
with his side bangs. Yeah, both.
57:37
Of them with their side bangs. 2000 emo compared to modern emo.
57:41
Two different vibes. Completely.
57:44
And yeah, like the just the sort of superhero story of it all is
57:54
pretty timeless. Like that's pretty timeless
57:58
storytelling to be like, you know, it's like good versus evil
58:02
and it but it's also internal and a little complicated, you
58:05
know, like that's pretty timeless to me.
58:08
I think that, I think that for the time the the visual effects
58:14
were we're good because I mean, it's Marvel does, yeah.
58:19
They made they. Made like almost a billion
58:21
dollars on this movie, so like, they're fine.
58:23
Really. Almost a.
58:23
Billion. Yeah, it was like 890 million or
58:28
something like that. So it was the thing that's
58:30
interesting is that like I I am pretty sure that I remember this
58:36
correctly. I'll Fact Check myself later and
58:39
put it in the comments if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that
58:42
this was the highest grossing of the trilogy, even though it was
58:45
the the critics least favorite. Like critically it was the worst
58:51
box office it was the best. But I think that that's pretty
58:54
common for like the like a trilogy that like the third one
58:58
after. All the.
58:58
Hype is going to be the drop off.
59:01
Yeah, exactly. But like people are going to
59:03
show up for it because now they've been invested in the 1st
59:06
2:00. So the final movie is going to
59:08
pop. Off Exactly, exactly.
59:09
So, So I think I mean, God, that's timeless.
59:13
It really is the third. Movie in a trilogy be and like
59:17
yeah. We have to remember, like, this
59:19
is the first time Spider Man is on film, right?
59:24
Like we have seen so many variations from this, so many
59:29
new types of just approaches on how to tell this story.
59:33
I think like, yeah, there's always going to be that iconic.
59:36
Like, yes, this is the movie, but this is the first trilogy.
59:38
This is the first time being on screen.
59:40
Totally. I think that'll always, it'll
59:42
always take the cake for me. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
59:45
And also, like, this was just, this was, I think, like one of
59:50
the first superhero movies that I saw that I really liked.
59:53
Yeah. So I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of
59:56
always hold it close to my heart for that.
59:59
You know your. Heart, you gonna do your Peter
1:00:00
dance in the streets? You know.
1:00:03
Your Peter dance in the street. You know I am.
1:00:06
Oh my God. Well, well, man, I guess we
1:00:10
gotta wrap it up. I mean, what else is there to
1:00:11
say? I guess we could we could be
1:00:13
here for a couple more hours talking about every single every
1:00:17
single spin off story that could come from this.
1:00:20
I know. Seriously, don't get.
1:00:21
Us. I was talking about spider man,
1:00:22
don't even get me started. But this was, I think, like
1:00:29
overall an underdog story. This is an underrated movie.
1:00:33
I mean, even the the director himself was like, oh, I actually
1:00:38
thought it was awful. He said that in 2014.
1:00:40
It's like, OK, well, like. Damn just.
1:00:43
Yikes. Like you didn't have to.
1:00:44
You didn't have to come that hard on it.
1:00:46
And I think that like now in 2026, looking back on it, I'm
1:00:50
like, that was a good movie. What was everyone complaining
1:00:53
about? And I I mean, it's not like it's
1:00:54
totally flopped. It's got like a, it's got like a
1:00:57
60 something percent on Rotten Tomatoes.
1:00:59
Like it's not that bad, but I think in comparison sort of the,
1:01:05
you know. It's the it's the off child,
1:01:08
It's the it's the black sheep. It's the black sheep of the
1:01:11
trilogy. Yep.
1:01:12
And that's honestly probably why I kind of like it just because
1:01:14
it has that like weird to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think
1:01:19
and especially to like we have to remember like Spider Man,
1:01:22
like the amount of hype that you have.
1:01:26
It's just like the Marvel movies today and a lot of like series
1:01:28
today. It's like you have such these
1:01:30
great series and great ideas. It's like if it even slightly is
1:01:35
less than, then it automatically feels like it's a flop or
1:01:38
critics won't mess with it as much.
1:01:40
And so I think for me personally, I'm like, I know how
1:01:43
great Spider Man is and I know people didn't like this movie as
1:01:46
much or actually vice versa. Like I think a lot of the fans
1:01:49
liked it for certain things, didn't like it for other things.
1:01:52
I think it just has that like, I don't know, it's that like,
1:01:56
really particular taste. Yeah.
1:01:58
For like a superhero movie. And like it just it scratches
1:02:01
that itch. It scratches that itch,
1:02:02
scratches that spider bite, you might say.
1:02:06
Oh, boy. Well, Michael, thank you so much
1:02:08
for coming on the show. This was such a blast.
1:02:11
Do you have anything you want to leave the listeners with?
1:02:14
Look, I I know what movie I'm waiting for beyond the spider
1:02:19
verse. I'm waiting for it.
1:02:21
Spider Man ain't over, even with all the controversy.
1:02:24
Yeah, so you know the. Controversy.
1:02:27
We we've been on the Internet. OK, we know.
1:02:30
We've been on the Internet, but other than that, thank you so
1:02:33
much, Molly, for having me. This was dope.
1:02:36
I really enjoyed getting some nerd out about this movie and
1:02:40
actually talked to somebody about this movie because it's
1:02:43
been so long. Yeah.
1:02:45
So thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
1:02:47
Let me know. I'll be here if you know, if you
1:02:51
talk video games, we can talk other superheroes.
1:02:53
I'm gonna be here. I was just going to say
1:02:55
listeners get used to seeing Michael around here because he's
1:02:58
he'll be back. And thank you, listener viewer,
1:03:02
so much for listening and watching.
1:03:04
Be sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel, follow us on
1:03:07
social media, blah blah blah comment like subscribe.
1:03:10
You know what to do OK, bye.