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Trump’s $2.2 Billion Presidency: The Corruption the Constitution Saw Coming · The Oath and The Office

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to The Oath and the Office podcast. I am
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: John Fuegel Sang. It is a pleasure to have you
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: with us, and it's a pleasure to welcome the star
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: of our broadcast, the author of the Oath in the Office,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the Ivy League, professor who you've read in the New
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: York Times, CNN, Time Magazine, the author of the presidents
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and the people as well, people of Earth. Let's make
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: some noise for Professor Corey Bretschneider.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Hello, sir, hi John, And what a week we have.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: The cryptocurrency scheme, the theft really that we have going
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: on from the President, the question of how we would
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: ever hold him to account given the grand theft that
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: we're seeing, the question of transgender rights in the Supreme Court.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: It's going to be an amazing show, one that delves
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: into the crisis of democracy, but also that offers hope, as.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: We do every week. You haven't subscribed yet, push that
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: subscribe button.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, And I want to praise you for as well, Corey,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: for the crazy ratings this podcast is getting. It's it's
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: way too popular, and we need to talk about how
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this is going to your head. Professor. I think I
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: respect your standing as an Ivy League constitutional scholar. The
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: bling's a bit much, but this is not the place
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to discuss the blink.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: We'll talk about I'm getting used to the paparazzi, you know,
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: and I'm dealing with it. Well, I haven't yelled at
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: too many of them are throwing fits.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I really try to welcome them.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good, good, Try to not throw too many phones
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: at assistance Scory and I want this to go to
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: your head, but I want to I want to talk
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: about one of the topics that you just raised, Professor,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: because Donald Trump has finally, I think, found the perfect
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: business model for him, selling the American dream as a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: pump and dump scheme. You'll recall, during the campaign of
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, Donald Trump repeatedly promoted his Trump meme
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: coin on social media, kept encouraging supporters to purchase it. Now,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: for those who don't know, a meme coin is the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: only product where the disclaimer pretty much says this is
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: not an investment, and a lot of guys here, oh,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: this could be my retirement plan. Because the entire ecosystem
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: runs on four emotions fear of missing out, greed, denial,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and the belief that you'll be smart enough to sell
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: before everyone else, so Professor. This week's headlines told us
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Trump's twenty twenty five financial disclosure reported at least two
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: point two billion in business income, with cryptocurrency being one
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: of his biggest sources of revenue in his life. Now,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the coin Trump's meme coin, like Trump's hair, like Trump's
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: digestive system, has now collapsed. After peaking above seventy five bucks,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the meme coin was trading around a dollar seventy six
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: by the end of the reporting period. That's a decline
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: of about ninety seven percent, and according to analytics from
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Nansen Corey, almost one million people who bought the Trump
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: meme coin their wallets were underwater by the end of June.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: About two of every three buyers lost money. Those investors
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: lost a combined are you sitting down three point eighty
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: one billion dollars while Donald Trump himself as an individual
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: walked away with six hundred and thirty six million as
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: a payout from the same venture where one million fans
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: lost three billion dollars. Corey, I'm sorry it takes so
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: long to set this up, but the framers worried so
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: much about corruption, which constitutional provisions do you think were
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: designed to prevent presidents from enriching themselves while in office
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: like this. I know about the emoluments clause, but these
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: guys were really trying to plan to prevent this from happening.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: I'm eager to get to the constitutional history. And yes,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: the framers worried about this. They thought they had a
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: response to the anti federalists who worried that the presidency
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: would become a source of criminality.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And things like this. The anti federalists.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: Predicted, these are the people who oppose ratification would happen
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: all the time. And Founders put two clauses into the
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: Constitution to combatant the emoluments clauses.
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  Speaker 2: They thought it was so important.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: They put two in actually, one prohibiting domestic emoluments, one
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: prohibiting international emoluments. And of course this story and all
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: the elements of it have a domestic element, the people
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: who are victimized domestically by this scam coin, and also
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: the international investments that the president is getting in these
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: crypto companies, which obviously, to my mind, violate the international
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: emolument's clause.
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  Speaker 2: And again I thought this was such a big deal.
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  Speaker 3: They put it in there twice before I get to
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  Speaker 3: the complications of criminality and could he be prosecuted? The
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: question I want to address, which it turns out to be,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: unfortunately a complicated one.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: It shouldn't be, but it is.
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  Speaker 3: I just want to say something about this kind of
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: crime because I think it's so relevant to our politics
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: right now. So often people say to us, you know
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: you're doing this show about protecting democracy, What about inflation?
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: What about pocketbook issues?
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: And of course both of those matter, And the key
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I think for those running in this congressional election, if
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: candidates are listening, I know a lot of staff are listening,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: and people who are voters and concerned about this are listening.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: The key is to see how they fit together.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: And john your comment about pump and dump really captures it,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: because this kind of corruption is not victimless.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: It's yes, Trump in using the office to.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: Enrich himself, that's the definition of an emolument, and doing
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: it at the expense of ordinary people. And so much
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: of the corruption has a financial cause. So it really
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: is one idea, worrying about pocketbook issues and worrying about corruption.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: All right, onto the big question.
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  Speaker 1: Oh sorry, Johnny, I just want to answer one thing
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  Speaker 1: when you use the phrase corruption. Now, of course we're
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: not saying that this entire scheme is a crime. Crypto
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: is legal and it is regulated, give or take. The
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: corruption comes in the chief executive enriching himself off the office.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: That is what that is where this becomes legal. And
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: as I've pointed out to you many times, Professor, under
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: the emolument's clause, Donald Trump could have been impeached during
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the first minute of his first inaugural address in twenty seventeen.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: But go on, get to the big stuff.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's get into it. I mean, look, here's
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: the unfortunate thing. As I talked to people who are prosecutors.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: For instance, we had Joyce Vance on the show last week.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: If you haven't listened to that episode, listened to it.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: We were actually right after that on MS NOW together
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: talking about this issue and what she pointed out. And
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: remember this is a seasoned prosecutor. She was US attorney
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: in Alabama based in Birmingham, as you heard her talk about,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: and her view is it's complicated that if she was
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: going to try to bring this case under the existing laws,
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: that it would be a hard thing to do.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: She didn't say it was impossible. It might be possible.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: There are anti corruption statutes, but the bottom line is
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: they are.
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  Speaker 2: Way too weak. How should this be a hard question.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: It's obviously the president using the office to enrich himself
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  Speaker 3: that violates the me of the emoluments clauses, both of them.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: So my view about this is if it's a hard
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: legal case, instead of just going back and forth, the
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: obvious thing that we need to be doing talking about
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  Speaker 3: the next election is supporting a bill to make it
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: clearly criminal to use the office in a cryptos scheme
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: or any of these others in order to enrich yourself.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: And it has to clarify that bill that there's no
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: presidential immunity because of course this isn't an official duty.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: If you're engaged in emoluments, it's almost the definition in
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: monuments violations, it's almost the definition of private So that's
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: what I think we really need to focus on. That
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: there are these two emoluments clauses, but as is so
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: often the case, we don't have the ordinary There's constitutional
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: law and then there's ordinary law passed by Congress.
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  Speaker 2: We need ordinary law to make it clear that this
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: is a crime.
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  Speaker 1: So, in other words, you're going to make me talk
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: a like a Republican when they talk about hate crimes legislation.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: There's already laws on the books, mister. Why do we
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: need more laws if there's already laws on the books.
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  Speaker 3: But you're the bottom line is you know when yes,
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Van says, you know or it's not just her, of course,
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  Speaker 3: it's other prosecutors.
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  Speaker 2: Prosecutors have to look at the laws on the books.
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  Speaker 2: They tend to be weak.
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  Speaker 3: There is no specific emoluments violation that is criminalized. Again,
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: it's in the Constitution, but the law that would penalize
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: that as part of criminal law just isn't there. So
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: they have to look, you know, for other more general
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: kinds of corruption. And as you say, it's not illegal
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: to be engaged in cryptocurrency, it's illegal is to use
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: the office. And you would think common sense would say, well,
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: of course that's illegal.
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  Speaker 2: Of course we pass those laws. We haven't.
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  Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to say to our listeners. And
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  Speaker 3: it's so desperate that we do it. The House Judiciary Committee,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: Jamie Raskin, i believe, is one of the sponsors. There
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: is a bill to criminalize emoluments. It hasn't been brought
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: out onto the floor. And you know, one thing that
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: we need to do is force We're not going to
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: get a full vote on the floor, but we could.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: There are maneuvers in order to force a vote on
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: whether or not to bring it to the floor.
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  Speaker 2: And if Republicans want to vote.
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  Speaker 3: Against it, I believe some would vote for it, then
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: let them do that. Let them vote for corruption, vote
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  Speaker 3: for ability of a president to use his supposed immunity
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  Speaker 3: in order to you know, make people poor while he will.
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  Speaker 1: They will, and they'll call it freedom, and they'll call
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: it free speech. And they'll have a Supreme Court that
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: says that bribery is totally legal. You know, you got
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: me thinking, Professor, the Constitution. They anticipated foreign influence right
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: on our politicians big time. They did not anticipate cryptocurrency.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Does crypto expose weaknesses in our existing ethics framework? Because like,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: this is the only casino where the House doesn't even
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: pretend you might win. This guy owns the chips, and
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: he owns the table, and he owns the slot machines.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and then they'll sell you a
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: commemorative coin that says this is not a gabler device.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: While you're losing your mortgage. I mean, it seems like
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the founding Fathers had some holes in the system, and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: crypto exploits it.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to let them off the hook.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: I think it's worse than that they didn't anticipate crypto,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: because of course, when you're writing any legislation or you're
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: writing a constitution, you can't predict the technology.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: They couldn't predict the Internet. They couldn't.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: But yet there are crimes that were on the books
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: dating back to the eighteenth century that you could violate
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: on the Internet. If you use it in a murder conspiracy,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: you know that there's not a hard problem there.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: The problem is that what they didn't do, and it goes.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Beyond not anticipating crypto specifically, is they didn't pass laws
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: we haven't as a nation that criminalized the conduct of
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: doing things that would otherwise be illegal when you're abusing
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: the office, or at least they didn't do it in
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: the clean, clear way that this Emolument's Bill would do.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: So that's why we've got to fill.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: In their gap.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: It's not that they weren't aware of the issue, and
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: so I have something to say about why we haven't
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: passed it, so that they put it into the constitution.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: They're responding to the anti federalists who are like you know,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: by the way, the anti federalists, the people who opposed
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: the constitution, people like Patrick Henry. They thought that the
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: criminality of this kind of a present and basically self
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: serving using the office for personal illegal gain was so
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: serious it would destroy democracy. He said, the president would
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: start with these kind of crimes, a bad president, a
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: criminal president, not a good one, and then eventually they
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: would destroy the republic, it would see in a kind
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: of putinesque way. That's what they predicted, that their criminality
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: was unchecked, and so why not go for it. This
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: is what Patrick Henry said, the American throne, that's the
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: language that he used, and he was saying, this thing
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: is dangerous, do not ratify. So what was the response
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: of those who defended the Constitution.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Well, we put it in there twice.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: And I think this is what's so unfortunate that the
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Framers and so much of our government rests on the
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: idea of a president basically being a good person, and
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: so he didn't recognize the threat.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: And yes, that's naive.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: It's been a huge mistake even after Nixon, Well what
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: about Nixon? People said, well, it was suey generous. It
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: was just one time.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Even jd. Vance said the crimes of water Gate weren't
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: a big deal.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: They would oh what a shock. Yeah, boy at the
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Nixon library too. But you know this is the thing, right, Like,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: aren't we all a danger of becoming numb to conflicts
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: of interest because they're now so constant. I mean, what
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: is a little bribery matter if it's bribery twenty four
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: to seven, What is a little president profiting off the
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: office matter? When he's doing it every single day? I mean, like,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: is there a constitutional danger if the American people just
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: decide that self dealing is inevitable and we shouldn't expect more.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: I mean it's an amazing question, and it's one that
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: we've been focused on, and you know, my answer is
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: an unpleasant one, which is that we are becoming used
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: to it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: We have seen it.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: There is a sort of sense among some of the
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: American public, partly because Trump's enablers have spread this that
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: everybody does stuff like this. This is just what billionaires do,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: and it's just other billionaires. Maybe that he's you know,
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: winning against a negotiation. And what we failed to see
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: is that this is.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Not a democrat.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: When a president is able to use the most powerful office,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: not just in the country but in the world.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: To enrich himself.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: I'm going to just say something just to dramatize it,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: but I think it's completely accurate. The president we know
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: admires Vladimir Putin, Well, what is Putin's government? It's an autocracy,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: a dictatorship, but also one that is used to enrich himself.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: He has no problem collaborating with the oligarchs in order
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: to siphon all the resources of Russia into his pockets.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: And the President of.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: The United States, and I believe his family as well,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: see that, and they think that's our business model. We
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: can also become the richest people in the world. Let's
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: talk about the amounts of money. Hundreds of millions, billions
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: of dollars.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Do you want America to fall behind, professor? Do you
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: want America to fall behind in billionaires who don't care
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: about the working class? Because China will be ahead of
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: us if we don't create more billionaires who don't care
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: about the world. I mean, this is the genius of
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: the Griff Corey, a normal scammer disappears after to making
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: your money.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Trump just stays.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: There like he's just there, like these these Maga friends
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: spent all these years telling us that Trump is playing
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: four D chess. Turns out they were the pawns they're
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: paying for the chess board. I just got to ask
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: you one last question on this before I get physically ill.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Does history suggest, Corey, that constitutional guardrails will eventually strengthen
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: after periods of sustained corruption or have we never seen
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: a period of corruption like this.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: I want to answer that, but first I'm going to
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: just make a comment on your last comment, which is
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: that the president isn't a race, and it's not a
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: race on behalf of the American public. It's in the
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: race with another autocrat, Vladimir Putin, to see who can
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: be the richest person in the world. And so far
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Putin is way ahead. I don't mean there's any doubt
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: about that. But Trump is catching up. And you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: by the way, the money that we're talking about that
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: was reported in the New York Times. The journalism that
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: we're using here is reported gains, and there are, of
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: course all sorts of unreported gains. One This is not
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: saying we have the evidence yet, but one suspicious thing
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: is the trading account that keeps shorting oil perfectly as
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: the president announces, for instance, to cease fire and it's
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: time to you know, for oil to go down, and
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: whoever's placing that bet to just make a fortune. And
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: these are not small amounts of money. And my understanding
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: is it's continually the same account is that the president
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: is one of his family. Well, all these schemes that
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: we don't know about add to the well the closeness
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: that he's getting to putin on the question of hope,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: which I appreciate because we're always trying to do both. Absolutely,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: the way that we get the kind of laws that
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about come from moments of crisis. And that's
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: what I've written about extensively that in these dark periods, Yes,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: there is a threat that we won't recover. Democracy is fragile.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: But if we are able to galvanize support by saying
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: no kings, no, no using the office to enrich yourself
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: as a reaction, we might get the laws on the
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: books that we need.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: But you know, we didn't do it during Biden.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: We need some Moluments clause to have teeth, and that
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: means that the next president of the United States, whoever
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: it is, hopefully.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Not Donald Trump or not JD.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Vance, will have the wherewithal the virtue in the sense
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: of the Framers method that they would abide by the
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: oath to signs, but they will do it under pressure.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good for you for getting the words Jdvans
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and virtue in the same sentence. Story. Someone's drinking game
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: just got made really special. You know what this is
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: so depressing. Let's let's let's talk about cash. Buttell no
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I like, I got to tell you something. This ongoing
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: obsession with this individual president of somehow getting many individuals
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to go with his lie that he on the state
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of Georgia in twenty twenty, it's still going on. The
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: FBI is sending hundreds of analysts to dig into the
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Georgia twenty twenty election probe. It's been a priority investigation
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: for what happened six years ago because Donald Trump lost
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and he needs to change history. Just like they're scraping
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: the achievements of African Americans off of the Pentagon website,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: just like they're getting our historical national parks and landmarks
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to remove unpleasant realities about slavery and ethnic cleansing of
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Indigenous people. These guys want to erase history. They want
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: to erase the reality the Trump really lost. So the
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: FBI is assigning hundreds of analysts to reinvestigate a six
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: year old law. At this place, they will solve the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: assassination of Jimmy Hoffa by labor day. And they're working weekends,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: they're working holidays. Somewhere, Corey, like an unsolved bank robbery,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: is saying, hey, whatever, you guys got a minute. But like,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: if this many people investigated climate change or cancer or
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: all Alzheimer's, think about all the Nobel prizes Donald Trump
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: could have. Like, from a constitutional perspective, how unusual is
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: it that the executive branch is making the FBI reopen
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: investigations connected to past elections?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Wow? I mean, just to begin with and to state something.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: That I believe all of our viewers know, there really
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: is no evidence at all of the kind of election
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: fraud that Donald Trump is alleging. And there was case
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: after case in which they tried to show this kind
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: of fraud and they were totally unsuccessful. There was no
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: court in the United states that found that there was
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: election fraud on a level anywhere close to affect the election.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: So now he's saying to the FBI something, and I
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: just want to recall one detail because it's a perfect
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: illustration of what's.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Going on now. Of course, he called the Secretary of
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: State of Georgia demanding that he find the exact number
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: of votestes to win Georgia. What's the number? Jo? Wow? Amazing.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: So now Trump is doing the exact same thing.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: The reporting shows that he is ordering the FBI to
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: go and find fraud that isn't there.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Well, for what purpose? To vindicate his lie and to
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: you know, not.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Just to vindicate his fragile, unmanly ego, sir.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, and to rewrite history. I mean, I didn't want
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: to love at that point either.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, it really isn't just about this specific thing.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: It's about all of it, about.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Turning streaming screaming toddler. Give the screaming toddler the iPad
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: so he'll shut up, right, And that's you know.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: I'll talk about this more at a future date. But
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: I was at an amazing event with a lot of
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: very high level former Department of Justice officials people who
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: of course were working all the time with the FBI.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: And you know, everyone is just flabbergasted because the corruption
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: that runs throughout this department, throughout the Department of Justice,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: throughout the FBI. Now because of the top coming down,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: how is it is it even possible to work in
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: the Department of Justice in the FBI.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: This was one of the discussion topics.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: As long as you don't care about as long as
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: you don't care about accomplishing anything. But this is why
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: he hired this child man to run the FBI. He
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't want an adult capable of critical thinking. He wants
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: this obedient, alcoholic child man.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Party.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Bro Dude, you've really got to emphasize that point, John,
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: You're bring up something so important, and this did come
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: from a lot of the DOJ officials, and it is
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: a message that again has to be you know, it's
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: partly legal, it's partly about good governance, but it also
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: is our politics that we have to be able to
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: frame the problem here. Isn't just you know, using the
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: FBI to waste resources on something that doesn't exist. It's
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: wasting them compared to what I mean, the FBI is
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: supposed to be doing things like going after sex traffickers,
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: an issue that the Republican and Democratic.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Party cares about.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: But how are you going to do that if you
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: siphon off all the FBI agents. I mean, this is
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: a massive number of into an investigation for something that
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: doesn't exist. So, as with the cryptocurrency scheme, this is
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: not a harmless corrupt action. There is a direct harm
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: to the people who were suffering from crimes that there
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: are laws on the books to prevent and that there
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: is an FBI that's supposed to go after it.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just want to say at this point, the
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty election has now outlasted most streaming series. This
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: thing has had more sequels than the Fast and Furious movies. Corey,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I'm so tired of hearing about this. But president's appoint
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: FBI directors. Where should the constitutional boundaries be between presidential
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: control and investigative independence. You've talked so much about how
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: dangerous it is to weaponize government institutions. I mean, how
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: would constitutional scholars distinguish between oversight and political retaliation? And
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: then this, which I think is technically called daffy shit.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, look within the Department of Justice, the FBI
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: is a part of it, right, And not just the FBI,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: but the entire Department of Justice has been turned into
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Trump's personal tool. And what Todd Blanche, the acting Attorney General,
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: has said, is under this wacky theory of the unitary executive.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: By the way the people created this theory, I would
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: never in a million years have gone this far. They
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: thought that the Attorney General, of course, was supposed to
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: be independent. Even defenders of the unitary executive defended Attorney
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: General Levy, who made it a point to say, you know,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: even talking to the president's bad. Remember the conversation on
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: the tarmac and whether it Rretta Lynch, the President speak
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: to the Attorney general?
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: That terrified horror. How scary that was. Remember how scary
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: that was. That was like a trans girl wanting to
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: play soccer.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: That was like, I mean, that was as I can suit.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: All right, we got to take a break, or when
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: he's gonna yell at us. But I just want to
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: thank you, professor. This is just they're still treating twenty
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: twenty like it's a cold case. And the problem is
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: that case got solved while it was still very warm.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and when we come back
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: some more fallout from the end of the Supreme Court term,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: including some potential good news for our friend Egen Carroll.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: This is the Oath in the Office. These are difficult
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: times and if you believe in justice, progress and democracy,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the news you read and listen to can be pretty depressing.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: And that's why there's a new podcast called good News
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: for Lefties and America Get this every day. It features
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: positive stories for progressive listeners because no matter how disturbing
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: or horrific or soul crushing the headlines might be, there's
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: still always hope that we can build on for a
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: better tomorrow. We've seen it happen before. Good News for
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Lefties in America listen on this platform at good News
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: for Lefties dot com, or wherever fine podcasts are heard.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Oath in the Office. I'm John Fiegel,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: saying Professor Corey Bretschneier is with us and Professor in
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: a six' to three. Decision as you, know The Supreme
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: court rule that states may ban transgender ears and women
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: from participating in female sports teams at publicly funded. Schools
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: they're leading restrictions in twenty nine states fully intact this
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: wasn't a huge. SURPRISE i do want to point out
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: that WHILE i respect protecting the integrity of girls', sports
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Transgender americans are under one percent of the. Population transgender
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: kids who compete in school sports are a tiny fraction
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: of under one percent of the Popular you are statistically
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: more likely to know someone who has been struck by
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: lightning than know someone who's been directly affected by this.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Issue And corey, like this is still the defining political
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: battle of our. AGE i, mean housing costs, explode healthcare,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: costs childcare cost the cost of, eggs gasoline every. Election it's,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: like forget all that we got to Stop becky from
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: running into four hundred. Meters SO i have so many
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: questions about. This the liberal justice has agreed The title
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: nine itself permits sports to be separated by biological. SEX
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: i think the real disagreement was over equal. Protection can
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: you explain that distinction for our?
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Listeners, well you, KNOW i unpacked this case because it is,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: complicated and it is a lot of it is dependent
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: on the facts of any given. Case and let me
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: just say first what the case is about and what
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: the majority, did and Then i'll talk about the complicated
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: ways that the liberals on The court have dissented and
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: disagreed for sensible. Reason so what the majority, did and
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: it's not going to come to a surprise to anyone
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: THAT i think this was a really wrongly decided, opinion
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: is they essentially cut off the protection two protections for
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: transgender kids who want to claim that they were discriminated
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: against in sports and let's leave, aside you know what
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: various kinds of discrimination might have.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Happened and what.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: They said was that both the Equal Protection, clause which
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: is in the Fourteenth amendment of The, constitution and the
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: specific law that was passed to protect gender equality in,
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: Sports title nine don't apply to transgender. Kids that they
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: can't use use these laws in order to, say, HEY
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: i was discriminated. Against and that's before we even get
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: to the. Facts they're just saying that. Period that's not
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: what it's.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: About.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Now what's bad about, that in my, opinion and weird
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: is That Justice gorsuch had an opinion that The Supreme
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: court endorsed the majority of The court that said when
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: the phrase sex discrimination is, used that you.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Can't discriminate on the basis of.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Sex for, instance in the nineteen sixty Four Civil Rights
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: acts protection against job discrimination employment discrimination when it says
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: you can't discriminate.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: In the employment context on the basis of. Sex remember
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: this Is Justice gorsage and this Conservative Supreme. Court they, said, look,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: yeah that does apply to transgender. People because what is
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: discrimination against transgender people is, discrimination arbitrary discrimination on the
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: basis of. Sex your transgender status is a form of
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: sex based. Discrimination that's their.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: Argument so, Okay so now is it possible that the
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: discrimination against the transgender kid violates the ban on discrimination
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: based on? Sex both In title nine, now not the
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty Four Civil Rights, act this is protection in
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: sports past later and under the Equal Protection. Clause now
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: The court, saying, no absolutely, not it. Doesn't sex doesn't
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: have anything to do with transgender. Status so you, know
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: why are they saying? That and it's just a flabbergasting you,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: know there's not a good. Answer Justice gorsich tries to
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: square the. CIRCLE i think most of the justices who
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: voted this, way Including, kavanaugh didn't agree With.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Bostock that's the case about. Employment trying to your mind.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Him there's not a lot of mystery why they're doing
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: what they're. Doing so what's the.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Response the response is, subtle and it took a couple of.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Forms the, first the, best to my, mind Was Justice,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: jackson who, said, yes both the Equal Protection clause protects
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: transgender people in some contexts just as it protects against sex.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Discrimination and, also you, know this is her, Descent Justice,
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: JACKSON i Think Soda mayor on this, point this is
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: what you're referring.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: To doesn't, agree but she, Says, look the statute says
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: on the basis of, sex the same as the employment,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Discrimination so of course it's. Protection they're not saying anything.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: About this particular case that involves discrimination against a transgender
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: person who never hit male puberty and a transgender.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Woman.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Right and yet while they're, saying listen to the modesty
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: of what they're, saying look into the case because and, SORRY.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: I know that they don't want to get.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: It they don't want to do. That go, ahead go.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: AHEAD i just want to get it out last. Yea,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: YEAH i know it's a, Lot.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: John, sorry, no, no, no BECAUSE i GOT i gotta talk
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: to you about.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: This go, ahead because it's a complicated, issue as the court.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Says but, look.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Their point is that maybe and we can't know this
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: without looking into the, situation that it's arbitrary that there is,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: no for, instance physical difference between somebody who didn't go
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: through male puberty and a woman who is not, transgender
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: and in that instance that this is an arbitrary. Distinction,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: SO i, mean here's the point all the liberals are
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: saying is we need more information and don't cut off
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: the possibility that this is the kind of discrimination that.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: We saw in the job. Context that was a. Lot
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: please help me clarify, This, John.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so just As Sonya saidomayor argued that the majority
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: was ignoring the actual facts of this plaintiff's, situation, right
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: including that she you, know she transitioned before male puberty
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: and she allegedly lacked any athletic. Advantage, AGAIN i do
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: want to point out that trans, WOMEN i think are
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: the only athletes who take drugs to be physically. WEAKER
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: i think they're the only athletes who take drugs to
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: be physically. Weaker but it seems the, court to what you,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: said is moving away from individualized constitutional analysis because they
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: just want to have some broad rules about categories. Here
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: is that fair to?
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: SAY i think a way to put it is they
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: opened the door which justice and the law demand to
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: the possibility that there is discrimination against transgender people. Period
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: and in the employment, context they said that pretty, Clearly,
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: well if there's discrimination, there there might also be in
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: this other area of women's. Sports you, know the possibility, that,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: yes there is arbitrary discrimination going on here against transgender.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: People how can we know that without looking at the.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Facts and you, know they're, saying maybe there are facts
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: in which it's not arbitrary, discrimination but in this case
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: it might. Be and we're not saying it. Is what
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: we're saying we need to know.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: More, yeah and what they're.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Resisting and this is WHY i think it's common. Sense
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: is the kind of categorical shutting off of the.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Cab but, again like to, Me i'm, SORRY i don't
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: really separate this Ideological Supreme court from the comment, Section,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: COREY i really. DON'T i know What Brett kavanaugh spent
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: his time doing Under GEORGE. W. Bush this issue affects
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: a vanishingly small number of, people right and yet somehow
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: this issue gets more campaign advertising than, wages, unions prescription,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: drugs or affordable housing. Combined right, now that's not an.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Accident that's because culture war issues are politically. Magical you
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: don't have to build, anything you have to pass any complicated.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Laws you just have to find a. Villain and this
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: is what politics. Loves you find a group that's small
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: enough that Most american voters won't actually know one of, them, Right, Jews,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: muslims gay, people now it's transgender. Folk step, two you
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: convince everyone else this, tiny powerless group is the central
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: existential threat Facing. America and step, three you know your
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: fundraise off. It you don't have to fix. Healthcare you
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: just keep people angry about locker. Rooms you don't have
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: to explain why billionaires keep getting tax breaks and you
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: can't afford. Rent you just point at the high school track.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Meet make sure everyone's mad at teenagers in another state playing.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Sports this is the greatest magic trick in. Politics and
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: every election, cycle we know there's always a new existential.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Emergency critical race, theory drag, shows, caravans. Pronouns, right there's
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: the greatest dangers to the world's richest country is always
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: some group that can afford a. Lawyer SO i don't
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: really take any surprise by the fact that these aristocrats
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: on The Supreme court don't really have their arguments. Straight
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: they're just going with the tribal, mentality and the tribe
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: doesn't consider discrimination against Transgender americans to be. Discrimination, well here's.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: The i'm certainly not going to disagree with you About Brett,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: kavanaugh WHO i don't really think is a. JUDGE i
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: think he's a political actor who's just sort of out
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: of his depth and writing opinions that aren't based in the.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Laws way too, Polite but, Okay i'll say.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: WHY i think it's a little different with The court
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: as a whole and with in Particular Justice. Corsage and
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: here's the thing that makes it not just ordinary. Politics
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: and you, know of course that's what they're.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Saying and it's a.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: Case you, know WHEN i was teaching a class about
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: how to interpret ordinary laws passed By, congress a class
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Called legislation And, REGULATION i would teach in depth this
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: Case bostock about the nineteen sixty four civil rights ban
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: on sex and a lot of the, students some of
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: whom were going to work for organizations like lad who
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: are going to really devote themselves to gay and transgender,
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: rights really found it hard but also encouraging to read
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: this decision Because it was one of the moments in
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: which The Supreme, court led again by a Conservative Justice,
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: gorsich used the method that they claimed to. Use the
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: method is look at the words on the page of
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: the law and enforce. It and the word says don't
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: discriminate against sex And gorstag says so, plainly transgender discrimination
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: is sex.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Discrimination and so it was a moment of the.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Law so they've already said that the problem is now
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: they're just taking it back.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: WHY i definitely believe that the reason is the political
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: fallout and. Pressure Justice gorsich got a lot of grief for.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: It The court as a whole got a lot of.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Grief the culture war has only gotten more, intense and
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: now all of a sudden they've given up the. Battle
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: kavanaugh doesn't surprise, me but The court as a, Whole
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: gorsuch in, particular what.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Are you, doing? Man are you just giving up on the.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Law you're not judging if you're caving into the cultural?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: War, YEAH i think culture war is the fuel this
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: movement runs, On. Professor but you, know you keep on
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: hoping For, gorsich you keep, on you keep on, Hoping
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: and congratulations to all of. Them you guys successfully defeated
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: someone you've never met from competing in junior varsity cross.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Country.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Wow history will record this was the decisive battle for
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: The american middle. Class All, right we have to talk
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: about The Egene carroll. Verdict, corey we didn't get to
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: talk about. It but the, biggest one of the biggest
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: stories for me was the fact that The Supreme court
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: didn't think there was a story here and they will
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: not consider the five million dollar verdict Against Donald. TRUMP
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: i thought this was. Huge this leaves intact the federal
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Appeals court ruling that upheld the jury finding in twenty twenty,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: three which conclude That trump is an adjudicated, rapist that
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: he did sexually assault this woman and then defame. HER
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: i thought this was a bigger deal than you. Did
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the fact that they denied review without, DISSENT i, mean legal,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: speaking doesn't this say that this court has no problem
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: With Donald trump's adjudication as a sexual. Offender, Well i'll say.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: The good, news which is that you, know they they
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: didn't look at the argument That trump was, making which
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: was essentially that because in the lower court that The
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Access hollywood tape was, introduced that that was you, know
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: so prejudicial to the case that that's Why trump.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Lost and you know that was.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Rejected And trump's argument was The Supreme court get in,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: here and you, know part of the, IDEA i Think
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: trump's idea and his lawyers as, well it's the presidence
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: and they really owe him a. Favor he put a
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: lot of those people, there and so they didn't do,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: that And i'm with. YOU i think that's a good.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: Thing it shows that, they you, know there's some, integrity
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: and it shows That trump's case was so weak that
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: no way were they going to do, it even though
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: you know that there might have been pressure from the
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: executive on them to do. It BUT i don't want
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: to go too, far AND i want to try to
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: always be precise on.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: This it's very, important very, important and the fact that
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: if the court refuses to hear a, case it doesn't
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: mean that it agrees with the lower court.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Exactly it really.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: Doesn't the court has a and you, know this is
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: maybe something that we should look, at but the court
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: has total discretion in the cases that it, takes unlike
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: the other courts of, appeals and it engages in a
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: process you apply for writ of circherai or, sert and
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: the court.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Can really just, decide you, know we want to take
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: it or.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Not and part of what they're saying sometimes in the
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: refusal to take a, case the denial of cert is,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: well you, know it might have been, wrong but it
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: wasn't so wrong that we're going to spend our time on.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: It or they might have been saying there was no
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: real deep issue of, law and we have so many
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: more important cases that we want to focus, on so
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: we can't read too much into.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: It, Okay, well AND i do want to point out
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: That trump still faces review of the much larger eighty
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: three million Dollar Egene carol. Judgment but you, know one
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: quick thing on this. One trump's lawyers argue that the
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Access hollywood tape and the testimony from all those other
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: women where they said That trump did what he brags
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: on tape that he likes to, do that that improperly
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: influenced the. Jury why did the appellate courts conclude that
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: evidence was? Admissible?
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Professor you, know the loss of evidence are very, complicated
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: and you, know if the Court Supreme court would have taken,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: this we would have spent a lot of time looking.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: At whether or not for, instance it was. Prejudicial that's
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: the argument that you. Can't, basically there are rules of
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: evidence that keep you from being biased in one case
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: by considering something that you.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Did bad in another.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Case and you, know that's sort of a common sense,
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: rule and we'd have to look, at you, know those
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: arguments on both sides about whether it was prejudicial or.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: NOT i haven't done that. WORK i don't want to
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: claim to know the.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: DETAILS i don't need to because The Supreme court hasn't
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: taken it and it.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Stands and you, know here's the.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: Point even if it was prejudicial and it might have
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: been a, mistake that's not enough to show that it
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: was such a big mistake that it impacted the. Outcome
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: AND i think that one reason why we might guess
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: that The Supreme court hasn't taken this case that they
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: just don't think it was that.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Important.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: THERE i do want to say something about one of
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: the big picture, issues just to. Notice notice there's no
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: real immunity claim right That, Trump i'm sure you, know
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: claims immunity for, everything thinks he's beyond the. Law but
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: the immunity case carves Out trump versus The United states
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: immunity from prosecution or from liability for official.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Acts, now this is obviously not an official act because
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: it happened, before way before he was exactly The United,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: states and so it upholds he is a sitting.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: President but this upholds the decision In clinton Versus jones
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: that found That Bill clinton could be found liable for
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: his sexual harassment Of Paula jones even though he was
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: a sitting. President so you know that shows anyway that
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: this immunity, case although it's really, bad don't get me
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: wrong that it's not.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: An absolute immunity For Donald.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Trump All, right we got to take a quick. Break
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: but when we come, back the greatest political beef of modern,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: times The Supreme court Versus Nina, todenberg it gets. Ugly
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: this IS npr doing some crips and blood stuff. Here
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: we'll be back in just a. Moment this is the
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: oath in The.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Office hey, All Clenn kirschner. Here, FRIENDS i hope you'll
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: join me on my audio, Podcast Justice. Matters we talk
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: about not only the legal issues of the, day but
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: we also talk about the need to reform ethics in our.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Government here's one.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: Example the oath of, office you, know the ONE i
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: do solemnly swear to support and defend The constitution against all,
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: enemies foreign and. Domestic let's add twenty two words to
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: that oath, quote AND i will promptly report any instances
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: of crime and or corruption by government officials and employees
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: of Which i've become. Aware, friends our democracy is worth fighting.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: For join us in this, fight because justice. Matters look
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: for justice matters wherever you ordinarily find your.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Podcasts welcome back to the oath in the, Office. COREY
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: i want to wrap up with this very strange, story
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: but it's, ACTUALLY i think a good. STORY Npr Legal affairs,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: correspondent veteran, journalist iconic, broadcaster Someone i've grown up, Loving Nina.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Totenberg she misheard an announcement about retirements at The Supreme
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: court and believing said announcements to be discussing the retirement
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Of Justice Samuel, alito and she posted about, it and
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: it left other newsrooms scrambling to verify the information because
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: It's Nina totenberg FROM npr who's going to disagree with?
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Her And Nina totenberg called it a rookie mistake on
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: all things, considered she read out an apology letter she
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Sent Dear Justice, alito there were no words to adequately
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: apologize for today's error in reporting your. Retirement it was
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: highly my. FAULT i, mean she publicly. Apologized she described
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: it as the worst error of her. Career doesn't this
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: actually demonstrate something really healthy about responsible journalism right now
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: In trump's second?
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: TERM i like That, spinehon because you, know if you
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: think of so much of, propaganda if a factual mistake,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: happens call Out Tucker carlson as an. Example you don't
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: see him fact checking and correcting. Himself maybe he's.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Positions but he doesn't engage in fact checking, Never and
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: that's not.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: True apologies are weakness taking.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Responsibilities it's very.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Trump, Yeah, unfortunately it's Trump ism has infected a lot
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: of so called.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Journalism this is real JOURNALISM.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Mpr this amazing reporter with a long legacy made a
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: mistake and she owned up to. It and as much
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: as people want to claim that this is you, KNOW
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: mpr is fake, news or use it as an, opportunity
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: it shows the. Opposite it shows that in, journalism if
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: you make a mistake and you own up to, it then.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: That is what makes you a journalist.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Exactly you, KNOW i have to say, TOO i have more,
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: respect not less for her. Exactly you, know the mistake
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: was an honest. Mistake she overheard something incorrectly that she
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: thought was talking about the retirement from the source Of alito's.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Retirement it was. Wrong she actually misheard the person is
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: what she. Said and then she's made up for. It
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: so you, KNOW i have an experience with being in
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: the room with. HER i didn't actually speak to, her
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: AND i have never been interviewed with. Her but during
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: the travel, BAND i had a press pass For, politico
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: and SO i joined the press in their gallery AND
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: i just have this memory of sitting there and she
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: came in and this is the courtroom has a left
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: side to, it which is where all the press set
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: AND i was sitting in that part of the courtroom
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: designated for the press print and you, KNOW tv and,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: radio and when she came, in there's you, know there
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: was everybody there that you've seen on, television but the
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: whole room had reaction, like you, know, okay this is
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: the dean of. Journalism and she really showed, THAT i
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: think by owning up to a. Mistake and it's a great,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: example far from UNDERCUTTING, mpr And i've been ON mpr many.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: Times full disclosure and makes me have even more respect for.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Them, YEAH i think so. TOO i, mean a free
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: press that openly corrects itself seems to me an essential constitutional. Institution.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Right we always, hear, oh you can't trust the, media
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: can't trust the. MEDIA i, mean this kind of public
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: accountability seems to strengthen the. Credibility courts issue, corrections newspapers issue,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: corrections scientific, journals medical journals publish retractions like aren't transparent
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: corrections of? Mistakes isn't that actual evidence the institutions are still?
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: Functioning you, KNOW i think there's no question about. It
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: and you, KNOW i also don't want to hide from
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: the eyes incentive that there is to break this, story
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: because If alito did retire right, now the question all
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: of a sudden opens up about the balance of The Supreme,
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: court and in particular the question THAT i want to get,
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: to which, is you, know what should the reaction be
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: of The Democratic, party especially if The Democratic party takes The.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: Senate and to my, mind this is an, opportunity right
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: if it happens that there's a retirement or a death
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: while there's A Democratic senate and we have A republican.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: President there is no, question AND i don't, think having had,
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: informal off the record conversations with people On Capitol, hill
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: that there's any disagreement about.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: This no way are The Democratic.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Party is A Democratic senate going to confirm any justice
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: nominated By Donald. Trump there is no requirement of, nine
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: and the stolen seat Of Merrick garland.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Has to be.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Reclaimed not to mention the ideological rather than legal role
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: that The court is, played that it would be a
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: rebuke to that on both, justifications that number will go
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: to eight and will stay at eight. Naps so there
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: was a temptation to break this story and the. Excitement
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: she knew all this, coming and she made a mistake
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: and she. Apologized BUT i also don't want to hide
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: from the deeper, story which is An alito.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Retirement, wow that would be a major moment for this. Time.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah by the, WAY i talked To mitch McConnell for
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: about twenty minutes earlier today and in his hospital, ROOM i. Did,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: yeah we had a good talk and he was very
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: specific about.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: How where has he been he's been.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Recovering he continues to continue the recovery, continues and it continues,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: continuing and they can't tell us what he's recovering. From
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: they can't tell us what he's proving. From but he
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: wanted to point out to me how terrible he feels
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: about the fact that he chose to change the number
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: of The Supreme court makeup for one full year to
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: eight and he feels just awful about, it and he
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: encourages us to impeach Both gorsicch And Amy Coney barrett
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: to make things. Right that's just what he said to. Me,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: though one last question about, This. Corey it seems like
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: social media and the modern political system really it really,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: incentivizes it really punishes admitting mistakes right more than they reward.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: It like like the social media has just made it
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: worse than weakness to admit a. Mistake it's made it,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: like oh your moral that makes it. Woke like we
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: live in a time now where the entire zeitgeist is
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: against taking responsibility like an adult Like Nna. Totenberg just
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: did you?
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: Know it's such a great, Point, John and you, know
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: on the one, hand independent media is, great but on
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: the other, hand you, know there's a desire for clicks
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: and to increase the amount of time that people are
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: watching you and the more you can be an expert
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: and be. Flawless you see it in That eco. Universe
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: you certainly see it in The Fox news, universe where
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: the only thing that seems to limit it our, lawsuits
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: like the amazing dominion.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Lawsuit but you, ALSO.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: I don't want to hide from the fact that do
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: have real journalists doing you, know fact based, journalism, investigation
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: the kind of thing that we're relying on all the
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: time in this, show and we're fact checking our own,
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: show where owning up to it if we make, mistakes
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: and that is not.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Weakness that is what DEFINES i think the.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: Journalism and that's not just you, know, information it's information
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: necessary for citizens and a democracy to make good.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Decisions, Absolutely, So, corey let me wrap it all up with.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: THIS i, mean we've covered a lot of. Ground James
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: madison famously wrote if men were, angels no government would be,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: necessary And i'm thinking about that quite a bit these.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Days are we just in an era where we're just
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: discovering which constitutional safeguards were legal and which depended mostly
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: on political. Norms it's like what we're really learning the.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Difference we really.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: Are And i've got to say something About James, madison
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: WHO i admire much more Than. Hamilton by the Way
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: hamilton gets his own music, law that's really a.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Shame he was for strong executive.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Power he really fought for a lot of the most
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: strenuous conception of a presidency.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Things, yeah But madison guys the coolest part Of wisconsin
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: named after. Him it.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Balances, ACTUALLY i think he might need a musical as.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Well you, know we could go into that on another.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Show BUT i will say that. Quote you, know it's
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: just painful for me to hear it because it takes
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: me back to the founding, period which of Course i'm
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: often writing about and. Studying and What madison believed was
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: that they had come up with this system that perfectly
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: balanced trust in a virtuous president with the recognition that,
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: yes men are not, angels and if there is a
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: bad person in, power we have the guardrails to protect.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Us but what are the? Guardrails it was supposed to Be.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: Congress we've seen This Republican congress do anything but act as,
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: guardrail and The Supreme court and it's done nothing to
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: act as a. Guardrail the one guardrail that's left to
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: stop men who are not. Angels And Donald trump is
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: about the opposite of an.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Angel he is a devil as you can, get is.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: Us and that's really you, KNOW i think The framers
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: didn't anticipate that in the election of eighteen, hundred in
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: getting rid of the want to be authoritarian President John
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: adams that you, Know, madison and in real, time you,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: know after having said, that saw what happens when a
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: president isn't an. Angel and that's what we've got to
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: do in these next coming. Elections that's our only, choice
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: because the guardrails that he thought would.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Stop the, devil the non.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Angels you, KNOW i think he knew men were and,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: angels but he didn't think there were.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Devils and you've got a devil in The White, house
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: that's for. Sure.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: COREY i am so grateful to. You we covered a
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: lot of ground today AND i want to thank as
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: always our deeply attractive listening audience and, Uh wendy And
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: beowulf and everyone who keeps the podcast. Going, guys please
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: subscribe and also send us your. Emails we'd love to
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: hear from. You And professor what's the best way for
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: our listeners to keep up with you and your work
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: the other six days of the.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Week, well you can be the thousandth subscriber on the
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: new The oath in the office, substack where links to
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: all the stories that we talk, about we write up the.
• 49:49
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• 49:53
  Speaker 3: Podcasts of, course On, apple we were in the top position,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: recently number. One that's the first time that we've hit.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: That i'll be specific On Apple Trending. Podcasts they rank
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• 50:08
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  Speaker 3: the other, places subscribe there and leave us a review
• 50:12
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• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Well and these reviews are spreading the. Word tell a.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Friend that is another way that we. Grow And i've
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: just got to, Say, john we started with.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Nothing we are an independent.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: Podcast we're not owned by a major, company we're not
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: owned by.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Anyone it is.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Truly, independent and yet we've grown phenomenally without a big corporate.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: Backer and so support independent. Media support this. Podcast tell your, friends.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you so. Much AND i also want to let
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: everyone KNOW i host the evening programming on SIRIUS Xm.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Progress but that is coming to an. End as Of,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Monday july, thirteenth we will be live in the daytimes
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: On SERIOUS Xm Progress. No channel one twenty, seven nine
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: am till twelve noon on The west, coast noon to
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: three pm on The East. Coast we'll be Following Stephanie
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Miller live and our first new show again in our
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: brand new. Format it's going to be Called The John
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Feugelsang show On SIRIUS Xm. Progress will feature a couple
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: of very special, Guests Professor Corey bretschneider and FORMER Us
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: President Martin. Sheen they're both together on our first episode
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: as we kick off our brand New SERIOUS xm show On. Monday,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: corey thank you so much for everything you do and
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: for everything you've taught. Me and again thanks To wendy
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: And beowulf and to everyone who listens to The oath
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: in The office. Podcast I'm john Fiegel sang ANYTHING i left, Out, professor.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: It was great and good luck with the new.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: Show what an honor to be on with that on
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: the same show with that former.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: President as we want To you're a new SERIES xm. Show,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: sure thank.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: You my parole officer had to do a lot of
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: work to make this. Happen thank you as, Always, corey
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: and we will see you all y'all next time on
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: the oath in the office