Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / Episode #7: Listener's Questions-My Kids Have Abandoned Their Faith

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Episode #7: Listener's Questions-My Kids Have Abandoned Their Faith · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:03
  Hey, everyone.
• 0:05
  Tim Wright here.
• 0:09
  Coming to you with Terry Summers.
• 0:12
  Hola.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the Deep Grace Diving Podcast with Tim Wright and Terrence Summers,
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: who has entered into a new decade of her life a couple days ago.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Terry,
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: we are really glad when folks send in questions,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: and we hope that more and more will do that as we go along in this podcast.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: A couple of different ways to do that.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you are subscribed to the Reckless Grace Substack,
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: where this is posted,
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: this podcast is posted,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: you can use that.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's a place to leave comments and questions.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's recklessgrace.substack.com slash recklessgrace.substack.com slash.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can send an email to Rev.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: RevTimWright57 at gmail.com.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Rev, R-E-V, RevTimWright57.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: at gmail.com.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we will, when we get the questions, we will answer them.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got two of them today.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: But Terry, I will let you decide which of the two you want to start with.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And let's see if we can bring some grace and hope to those asking the questions.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am a question asker myself.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I am digging these question askers.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the first one.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you believe God has given us free will?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: God wants all people to choose to follow him and will continue to give unlimited
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: opportunities to do so.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing evil does exist.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about those who just choose not to follow Jesus?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you believe that there is a decision at some point we are responsible to make?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a handful of little questions in the greater question there.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a really good question.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and, uh, there's a couple of ways to go at it.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: One is yes.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: God created us with free will.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we, we see that happen every single day.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: We all make choices and we don't,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: God doesn't sit there with little strings on us and say,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: all right,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to choose to turn left right now and then turn right.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: and let's go over to Arby's today.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And God doesn't control all these things.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's a part of who we, to be human.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is to have this capacity for freedom and choice.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of the great gifts that God has given to us.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And part of the reason why God has given that to us is because,
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: and this gets to the heart of the question a little bit.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: If God forces us to love God,
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: that's not really love, that's abuse.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that is not what we believe about God.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Love is given and then people respond to that love or in some cases don't respond to that love.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: But love that is forced is not love, it's abuse.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So God reaches out to us with love.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: God constantly, as the writer says, is giving us all of these opportunities to experience God's love
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: As we saw in our podcast last week, we can't go anywhere.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing can separate us from God's love.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's just everywhere.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: yes,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: there are people,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: and there were even people in Jesus' day,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: who when Jesus said,
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: follow me,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: they said,
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they chose, in that sense, I'll use the word choose, although our English language is a bit limited.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: They, for whatever reason, decided to walk away.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it certainly happens even to this day.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: People hear the story of Jesus and for whatever reason decide,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: at least at this point in their lives,
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's not for them.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So then the question is, is it possible to reject Jesus for an eternity?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if I reject Jesus,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus for eternity, does that mean that I am then going to suffer the terrors of hell for all eternity?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to just keep saying this.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get to hell someday.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is a way to keep people listening to the podcast because you never know which
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: week it's going to come.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that's sort of where a lot of our Christian thinking takes us.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: You say no to Jesus,
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: you die saying no to Jesus,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: and you will suffer the consequences of your own decisions.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not God's fault.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's your decision.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And your decision is I'd rather spend, be in hell than with God for eternity.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so we sort of get what we ask for and choose and deserve.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I can't quite go there.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the Bible goes there.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think what the Bible says is,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: and our writer hints at this,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: God is a God of unlimited love and unlimited opportunities.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I've already said in a podcast before, and we'll, again, stay tuned someday.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that God's grace is limited by time and space as we know it.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that when someone breathes their final breath, rejecting Jesus, that God is done.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think God will go wherever they are and pursue them.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually...
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that love will open their hearts and their minds.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: To go back to the story of the prodigal son, which we kind of go back to again and again.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: That young man did not make the decision to go home repentant.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: He made the decision to go home belligerent,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: still not believing in his father's grace,
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: believing that maybe he could work himself back into his father's grace.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it was the father who ran to the son, even though the son wasn't repentant.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the father's grace that finally, finally won that son over.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the father had been offering him that grace all along.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: But for whatever reason, it was in that moment.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe for that boy,
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: it was because he was at his lowest point and he was so sure he could work his way back.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And his dad just surprised him.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: We talked in the last podcast, one of Paul's metaphors for sin is we're dead.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Dead people can't make decisions.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: A dead person can't choose Jesus.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Only Jesus can come along and breathe life into us and raise us up.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's his grace that empowers us to believe.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot, by my own will or strength, believe in Jesus alone.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: but only through the power of the Holy Spirit who raises me to life and raises me to faith.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, I think that there are people.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there are people.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And our next question is going to hint at that a bit.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: There are people who go through life either saying no to Jesus over and over again
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: or just not even thinking about Jesus.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the case for most people.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: They just don't care.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're not interested.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're not interested because they just don't know enough about it.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're not interested because they've seen examples of Christianity in media
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: that says,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want any part of that.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And quite honestly, I don't want a part of that Christianity either.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: But for whatever reason, they just live oblivious to God.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can say rebellion against God because they're living their own way.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, we can make that decision.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in the end, God's grace will have the final word.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it won't coerce us.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: God's grace isn't going to coerce us, but it will win us over eventually.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because once you finally ultimately stand in the presence of that kind of love,
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think with Paul,
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: how can you do anything but just bend the knee and say,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's been there all along.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's for me.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: So just to wrap up that final question,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: this person asked is,
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: do you believe that there is a decision at some point we are responsible?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like the word responsible jumps out to me in that question.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me start here.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, a decision is required by God and God made it.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And God decided when he created us and we decided to nibble our way into lostness,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: God decided not to punish us,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: not to destroy us,
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: but to put garments around Adam and Eve,
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: metaphorically speaking,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: to put his garment of grace around each and every one of us and that God would find us.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the cross is God's ultimate decision for us.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that he will go to the cross, he will go to hell to find us.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, a decision is required by God who makes the decision for us.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say I want to make a distinction between a decision and a response.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: A decision is proactive.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: It is something that I do to create a certain outcome.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So my decision saves me.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not what the Bible says.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: The Bible says God's decision saves me.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm dead.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I can't make a decision.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: But when Jesus comes along and blows life into me through grace, I can respond to that.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Response is passive active.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Something has happened to me first.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I respond to that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always because therefore.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's never if then.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: It is not if I make a decision, then God will love me.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's because God loves me.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, I can respond to that grace and follow Jesus.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's powerful.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I hope.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: this person is able to listen and get clarity on their question.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: You always wonder where,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm glad they don't feel they have to say anything,
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: but you wonder where are they and what situation are they in where these questions
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: come up and formulate.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think probably this writer is going to be in the same place that you and I
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: have been in all of our lives,
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: a certain view of Christianity,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: which is the dominant view of Christianity in the United States of America,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: which is a personal relationship with Jesus based on a decision that I make.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we've been taught that all of our lives.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there's something that makes a little bit of sense of that.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's why grace is so amazing, because grace doesn't make sense at all.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can get my brain around having to do something to appease the gods.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: But to not do anything, that just doesn't sit well.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: The United States of America, for one thing, isn't built on that understanding of anything.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I would guess that her perspective is the same as anybody's,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: most of many Christian people,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: that certainly we have to make a decision for Jesus at some point.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it may sound a little bit like I'm splitting hairs,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: but I think those split hairs make a big,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: big difference in how we live our lives.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Again,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: if it's constantly about my decision,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: how am I going to know if I've really made an honest,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: authentic decision?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Versus if it's based on the death and resurrection of Jesus,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: boy,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: that thing's planted in the ground 2,000 years ago.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Regardless of what I think or do, that's the promise God made to me.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: the distinction that you made between decision and response is really very different and very clear.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a word the Bible uses, John, but all who received him, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Receiving is different than grabbing hold of something.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: So when I go grocery shopping, I'm grabbing things, right?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: But when I'm getting a present, I'm receiving something.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially, I'm passive.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I can respond by giving it back without opening it up.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't change the fact that it's still a gift that's been given to me.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I may put it on the shelf.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I may not use it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: May not even like it.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it was still a gift given to me.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the hope of the gift givers, eventually I'll come around and that that gift will...
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: If nothing else, remind me that that person loved me.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know the second question builds on this one.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I brought my kids up in the faith of Jesus in grace.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow, during COVID, their faith was lost completely.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't even want to talk about faith or Jesus.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's still there deep down.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm afraid for them and my grandkids that they are missing the life of grace.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: They could be living.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Such a great question.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And this happened all across the country and all around the world.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: We know,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: looking at the statistics now several years away from COVID,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: that many,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: many churches across the United States of America lost anywhere from 60 to 70% of
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: their attendance over that time,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: their members.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Some have gained them back,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: but I would still say the majority of churches who lost people during COVID have
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: not fully recovered yet.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: the people who left.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some left their churches because they were angry at the stance that the church took on COVID.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Some just got out of the habit.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there was a lot of political religious turmoil in that time where
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: there were certain things being said in the name of Jesus that didn't sound very Jesus-y.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And for a variety of reasons, a lot of folks just said, I'm done.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of those folks said, I'm not only done, I'm done with Jesus.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm done with Christianity.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we could go into a great philosophical discussion.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Are they really done with Christianity?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are they done with the Christianity that they were seeing during that time?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a whole different story.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: The point is that they've sort of abandoned the faith,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: become numb to the faith, just disinterested.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's heartbreaking for parents and grandparents who are going through this.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what I think is interesting about this question is she's not asking about their eternal life.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: salvation she's talking about them missing out on on grace right now in this life
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: what i think is a really well said right question because when jesus talks about
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: eternal life he's talking first and foremost about a quality of god life now not
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: someday jesus came to give us life now not someday and part of the problem with
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: with some facets of christianity it's all focused on getting to heaven
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: rather than living the life,
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: the mission that God has called us to right now,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: to love our neighbors,
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: we love ourselves,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: to bring justice and mercy and compassion to the world.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so that was a little tangent.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: so now you've got these,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: especially young people,
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: and we know that Generation Z,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: whatever that is,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: is the least likely right now to go to church.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Every generation since my generation, Boomers, has been increasingly removed from the church.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, man, it's hard.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of us, Terry, you're one of them, we've been raised in this stuff all of our lives.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: We have not only been raised in it, we've worked in it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we really believe in this stuff and we do believe that Jesus makes a difference.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when we've got family members and friends who were raised in it, then say, no, it's not for me.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's, it's just heartbreaking.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh, I would say a couple of things.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, first of all, I would say, God loves your children even more than you do.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the God who went to the cross in the person of Jesus,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: For you and your children will not give up on them.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: God will not abandon them.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Will you see the fruits of that promise?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: But all I know is that God will not abandon them.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Secondly, I would say pray for them.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to tell them that.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Don't say, I'm praying that you come back to Jesus.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: That will just push them further away.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just pray for them.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've got some people that you care deeply about who are really good at
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: keeping a confidence,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: just say,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: would you pray for my kids today?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: They just kind of lost their way, spiritually speaking.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're great kids.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: They're successful.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you want to say about your kids.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: But spiritually, they seem to have lost their way.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we just pray that God's grace would
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: continue to envelop them until they are ready to hear once again that God loves them.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So pray for them.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there is power in prayer.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And prayer not only helps us reconnect with God,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: but it enables us just to leave it in God's hands and not worry about it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Then I would say just be you.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Don't go to their house and say, okay, we're going to have Bible study now because grandma's here.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or if your kids are really antagonistic toward the church right now,
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: don't buy your grandkids little children's Bibles.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: That just pours salt in their own wounds.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And let's assume they're wounded.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: At this point, for some reason by the church, they're wounded.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: So don't be preachy.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just be grandma or be grandpa, be mom, be dad.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Let them know that you love them and that you don't judge them.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: You don't condemn them.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's that love and that grace and acceptance that will win over any of the
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: stuff that they may be going through.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I would also say if your kids,
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: your grandkids are at a place where they still will maybe attend something at the
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: church that may not be as spiritual as a worship service.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: For example,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: at our church this summer,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: we're coming up on summer,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to have a musical theater camp for a week.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they will rehearse.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: They'll put together a show in a week.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be all Broadway music.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not, it's not Jesus music.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's just,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: they're in a church environment with some other really good people using their
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: gifts and talents to do great music.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: If they're open to that and you know that you can invite them and they're not going
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: to get angry about that invitation,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: then invite them.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I, I think that there are ways to, to be who you are.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: and if opportunities come and the grandkids ask you questions,
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: you can say,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: here's always couchy.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what I believe.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you talk to your mom and dad about it so that you're not doing stuff behind their back.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just be, just be Jesus to them.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just be Jesus to them.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And let God's grace do what God's grace does best, and that's to win people's hearts.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And usually the way that God's grace does that is through loving, caring, compassionate people.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than judgment and condemnation.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So again,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that this is going to be an issue that will be a challenge for Christian
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: people increasingly.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: The trends don't look great.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't look...
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: awesome that suddenly this generation is going to come back to church they may come
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: back to something very different than what church looks like now maybe but we those
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: of us who sort of have a church background we're going to see some major changes in
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: our culture and the call will not be to live out of fear and desperation but to
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: live out of grace and compassion
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a little hard when you're so concerned about your kids.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: We want them to get it right.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to faith,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: letting go and letting Jesus is a much better formula than hanging on and trying to
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: fix it yourself.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's where your focus can sort of return to when you do get frazzled.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: it's calming for the person as well.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and what I like about the question as well is I think it's still in there, and I would agree.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: There are seeds that we plant, and God keeps watering them.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows when they'll blossom?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're dormant right now,
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: but the seeds of grace are there,
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: and they will be nurtured through love,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: through care,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: compassion,
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever way that God will use to sort of bring his reality back into their lives.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel for this grandma, this mom.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's not alone.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's increasingly going to be the issue.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's respond with grace rather than fear and coercion.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: question askers for trusting us with your questions.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we just, we'd love this opportunity.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Tim, you're just one of the best at getting right at things.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad we have this opportunity to explore what our listeners are thinking
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: and processing and wondering about.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So again, if you've got a question, you can send it to RevTimWright57.com.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: at gmail.com.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: RevTimWright57 at gmail.com.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's for the year I was born, not for how old I am.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Used to be.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can go to recklessgrace.substack.com with a slash at the end.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can probably do it without the slash and figure it out.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribe.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you get this podcast and when you get my weekly blog post,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: so to speak,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: you can leave questions there.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: We'll pick them up.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And please let your friends know about this.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's available on Spotify.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's available on Apple.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you're watching this on Facebook,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: some sort of platform,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: listening on a platform,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: just send it over to them,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: share it with them and let them hear about God's grace as well.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Terry, we're going to be back again next week with something.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: What a privilege.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: What an honor.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Bunch of fun being with you.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you everybody for listening.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to let you go with a little Morse code.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: It spells out grace.